Liontamer

ASK A JUDGE: While we're busy NOT voting - your questions, we want 'em

1,555 posts in this topic

And wow, 20 new judges in 6-8 weeks! I'm pretty sure they're not all going to be active, or will they be rotating/retiring out some judges in lieu of the new ones?

Most of them will be working in the mail room.

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How often do you get submissions that are a sure NO, but you keep them on your iTunes/Winamps/mp3whatevers anyway and play them 100 times non-stop? Like, give a rough percentage of such. There's gotta be some remixes that you enjoy for personal tastes and reasons.

Personally, off the top of my head (without being in front of my playlist) I can't think of ANY remixes that were obvious NO that I still listen to. Lots of mixes that were borderline, or that I YESed and the panel NOed, though.

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This one's for JJT specifically, and any other judges to whom it may apply:

Have your woman ever live you alone for reasons of your judging?

For reason of the length of your decision drove her mad with him?

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This one's for JJT specifically, and any other judges to whom it may apply:

Have your woman ever live you alone for reasons of your judging?

For reason of the length of your decision drove her mad with him?

Rama, my woman has lived me alone before. Not for the length of my decisions, though. Sorry dhsu. It was for reason of I had jazzed it. Multiple times, actually, over a 2 month period.

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Do you all have a job that has something to do with mixing or music in general ? Or is music just a hobby for you ?

I currently work at a bookstore, but I'm trying to move into radio, music production or any other sort of audio development role due to my love of music and knowing so many artists. Nothing would be better to me than being in a position where I could lift up great musicians in the game arrangement community. For me, OCR is a hobby, but that's only because it doesn't pay anything. Besides djpretzel, I likely spend the most time working on the site.

Larry: How did they let you, a black man, onto the pannel?

It's Protricity's fault. Dunno how he feels about it nowadays, but he quickly regretted it.

This question may broach some sensitive behind-the-scenes material so I'm not expecting you guys to answer, but I was wondering why certain judges like Shnabubula, Harmony, and Israfel left or were removed from the panel. Being a hardcore theory geek, I always enjoyed reading Shnabubula's write-ups. I always wondered if perhaps he was deemed unsuitable as a judge because his feedback was too technical for most remixers? Harmony and Israfel seemed to provide a good balance between technical and more accessible comments, so they were two of my favorites as well.

Well, Israfel (lack of interest) and Harmony (lack of time) already explained their situations. Shnabubula's removal from the panel, I don't mind talking about at all, but it would take way too long to explain. That's a good idea for an extremely lengthy blog post though. His theory-centric judgments were a very small part of it. In short though, there's definitely no hard feelings though; Sam and I definitely get along great now, and it was great meeting him at MAGFest and shooting the shit, including his take on what went wrong with his time on the panel, which was all very interesting. Anyway, I'll blog about it someday.

I've noticed that most mixes get four YES/three NO before getting accepted/rejected. Others don't seem to follow that with a mix having a lot more YES or NO votes before getting accepted or rejected. How do you decide how remixes get accepted or rejected? Do you guys discuss remixes that happen to be on the line between being accepted or rejected in a separate judges forum?

If a vote is not unanimous, the vote is extended. Not that it's written down as a law, but generally any disputed vote with a gap of 3 if favor of one side is resolved (e.g. NO will result from 1Y/4N, 2Y/5N, 3Y/6N; YES from 4Y/1N, 5Y/2N, 6Y/3N).

The Judges Decisions forum shows the decisions publicly. We have a private Queue forum where we vote and discuss the tracks in their respective thread. Anything resolved is later moved to Judges Decisions.

Also, can you explain NO OVERRIDE?

DragonAvenger is not a judge, so clearly she doesn't get it. :-P But nah, she's got the gist of it, and BGC explained it as well. If something is ever placed on the judges panel and it turns out to be a clear submissions standards violation (e.g. MIDI ripped), then a judge can give a NO Override. That ends the vote without requiring every judge to weigh in, which would be redundant.

So, there's this person I want to get to know better, and get a feel for what this person is like. Find out what this person likes, more about this person's life history and what not. But, I don't know how to go about it. I was wondering if you could help me sort it out.

Cause, ya know, you said you'd help. :)

If you're scoping out this personal as a potential significant other, then ask them out on a date. Dates are the proper way of getting to know someone better; anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. Propose a date (tips and rationale on getting a date are here). Then let the person dominate the conversation. That's how you learn more about someone; give them the floor and let them talk about themself.

Just FYI, I made that comic as a joke, and because I was too obsessed with Churuya at the moment :3

Then larry and I tried to act it out IRL and he didn't know what to do. I was heartbroken.

I don't recall trying to BS that I quit. I just liked the comic, so I added it to the Judging Process updates thread.

How long do you guys think are going to be around OCR?

If the site's still around and I still have the energy and interest in judging, I'll be around. Even if I was no longer a judge or staff member, I'd still check out the music.

What about after your music careers take off, will you still be as prominent?

I'd be different in that any music career wouldn't be as a musician, but I'd try to make time for the site; it's been lots of fun, so I'd rather not give it up. That being said, getting a solid career-oriented job in the games/music industry is tough to balance with OC ReMix. The Wingless was always kind of low in terms of voting frequency, but when he joined Midway, he definitely didn't have time any longer to do the job even if he wanted to.

To all of the judges: I know that as a newb to meetups, I was really excited to go to one (DC VGL!). I've only attended 2 so far, counting MAGFest, and I feel every bit as excited about going to the next one. As judges, and somewhat community moderators, you see and hear the best and worst from most everybody. Does this change how you feel about meeting up? Do you, as established, prominent jdgfgts feel the same sort of anticipation before meetups that you used to feel?

For ReMixers, I usually know their names and faces and a little bit of background on them already. So for me I can meet someone in person for the first time at MAGFest like OA and just naturally have conversation. For me, it's slightly more difficult to meet people who aren't ReMixers, and learn about some of them from scratch. But meetups make it so easy to get to know non-ReMixers in the community on a more personal level than the internet, so I always like meeting people like Jiggles McPuff (Don), Moguta (Chris), q-pa (Jon), Arrowned (Jarel), Vilecat (Val), etc.

For me, any internet drama at the forums is basically non sequitur to a meetup. People tend not to act the same way in person. So, no, encountering the best/worst of some people beforehand doesn't affect wanting to meet someone for a meetup.

I always love the meetups. Being on staff doesn't change how I feel about attending. I'm always just glad to shoot the shit with people who love game music.

GrayLightning had the idea for the feature, as far as I know. He gave spots to EdgeCrusher, Xelebes, Noir, Suzumebachi, and Xelebes again. Liontamer also gave 60 seconds of fame to Kaleb Grace and The Lady. These were all in 2005. I don't remember any other guest judging, but Larry would be in a better position to say, since he Knows and Remembers All.

It's worth pointing out that the guests didn't actually make decisions, but just registered an additional opinion on the mix at hand. You'll notice that Gray chose his guest judges based on their familiarity with the genres or instruments of the mixes.

No worries, you definitely listed everything I remember, and I also forgot that Noir got a guest vote. That mix by Rexy that was definitely another track where I didn't understand why it wasn't resubbed, because it was definitely near the line.

We should definitely bring the guest judging thing back every once in a while. I always enjoyed the opinions brought out by those.

It appears that the popularity of the site and number of submissions is always steadily increasing; correct me if I'm wrong on either of those two counts. How will the submission process continue to accommodate? Will you keep adding more judges? Will you find ways to limit submissions? Will you somehow add further emphasis to the wip section?

Being technical, the number of subs isn't steadily increasing. It was about 1.5 subs per day, but as of 2008, it, for whatever reason, jumped to about 3 subs per day. So far, the overall proportion of at least decent material has also increased, so the panel is getting more work. To answer the questions: 1. The panel simply needs to get back in the groove of voting. 2. No. 3. No. There's no reason to limit submissions. Though it might sound like I want fewer subs due to the workload, I would always be happy if we got more. That's always a cool thing for OCR. 4. zircon had a great WIP critique checklist of sorts that he drafted for the Works board, but we haven't put that out yet. I'm not sure why we didn't; I thought it was great, personally.

This one's for JJT specifically, and any other judges to whom it may apply:

Have your woman ever live you alone for reasons of your judging?

It was for reason of I had jazzed it up, hardman style.

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Does djp think EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE of his songs is DP-worthy?

I imagine it's like administrative perks. Kind of like a personal jet and a massive yacht put on the corporate budget for some business tycoon... maybe...

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OJI WROTE "(I'll never judge on anything but headphones.)"

I hate Protricity's Battletoads remix on headphones. It's one of my favorite songs in the car, on an objective level, even. The percussion sounds completely different. I guess that still doesn't justify not using headphones to distinguish between equalization levels, unless you have a really good audio setup in some room. Actually, I thought listening like that with great monitors was the way to go, if you want to be professional about judging nonprofessional game remixes.

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Does djp think EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE of his songs is DP-worthy?
I seem to remember a mix of his being submitted to the judges. I'm pretty sure it was NO'd. I'll see if I can find the decision thread.

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Thanks for your answers =)

Another question : does number of effects and instruments in a mix affect your judging ? I mean, yes, sometimes there are some great piano-only arrangements, but most of the time, remixes are full of effects and melodies... I may be wrong, but is it the only way for you to say "ok, this one worked a lot on his mix" ?

There are tracks that can be simple, but really catchy and effective. For example, I love some old OCremixes that I think wouldn't make it to the front page nowadays, because they're too "simple" (can't think of another word :P).

If I'm completely wrong, just say it... I haven't listened to every remixes on the site, far from it, so I'm maybe saying bullshit :oops:

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Thanks for your answers =)

Another question : does number of effects and instruments in a mix affect your judging ? I mean, yes, sometimes there are some great piano-only arrangements, but most of the time, remixes are full of effects and melodies... I may be wrong, but is it the only way for you to say "ok, this one worked a lot on his mix" ?

There are tracks that can be simple, but really catchy and effective. For example, I love some old OCremixes that I think wouldn't make it to the front page nowadays, because they're too "simple" (can't think of another word :P).

We don't really care how much time and effort someone put into a submission, unless it's a case where they're obviously using all default loops and presets and it is especially lazy. Sounds harsh, but if you spent two years on a mix and it doesn't meet our standards, we're not going to go any easier on you.

Simplicity is definitely not a problem - we have accepted lots of solo piano remixes, as well as acoustic guitar duets. You can't get much simpler than that. But like anything else, you can make a solo instrumental piece and do it poorly.

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OJI WROTE "(I'll never judge on anything but headphones.)"

I hate Protricity's Battletoads remix on headphones. It's one of my favorite songs in the car, on an objective level, even. The percussion sounds completely different. I guess that still doesn't justify not using headphones to distinguish between equalization levels, unless you have a really good audio setup in some room. Actually, I thought listening like that with great monitors was the way to go, if you want to be professional about judging nonprofessional game remixes.

I almost always judge on headphones too, but I don't get the best low-bass response from them, so if a mix sounds like it might be unbalanced, I like to listen to it on my system at home. One of the mixing adages you'll see come up a lot is that you should listen to what you produce on as many different systems as you can, including low-end gear. You do occasionally get stuff like you describe, where something won't sound good on headphones but might sound great in a car. I like to listen to my own mixes on my monitors and headphones before calling them complete, and if I have the time/effort, I'll give it a listen or two on the stereo in the living room or my car.

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OJI WROTE "(I'll never judge on anything but headphones.)"

I hate Protricity's Battletoads remix on headphones. It's one of my favorite songs in the car, on an objective level, even. The percussion sounds completely different. I guess that still doesn't justify not using headphones to distinguish between equalization levels, unless you have a really good audio setup in some room. Actually, I thought listening like that with great monitors was the way to go, if you want to be professional about judging nonprofessional game remixes.

Man what is it with you and headphones?

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I have always had this question stirring around in my head but I never figured to ask because I felt it was stupid, but since this thread is around, I suppose this is the best chance I got to get an answer for it.

Are remixes of remixes kosher? Say for example, someone takes a song Darkesword did a year or two ago and remixes it and actually does a really great job and submits it.

What are your opinions on that?

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As far as I know we only have one posted remix that is a "remix of a remix", so to speak. I think that would be tough today; it's ok to quote someone else's remix (eg. using a bit of the original material they used) but I'd say it would be tricky otherwise.. we'd have to evaluate what you added and really did differently.

What is the average livespan of a judge?

(I mean, how long have judges remained judges on average?)

It's hard to say since some people have stayed onboard since they were added, and others left (or were removed) within about a year. It's definitely variable and it completely depends on the person and what their situation is. Some people simply do not have time, even though they have the desire. Others might have some spare time, but they've burned out and judging isn't as rewarding as it once was.

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I have always had this question stirring around in my head but I never figured to ask because I felt it was stupid, but since this thread is around, I suppose this is the best chance I got to get an answer for it.

Are remixes of remixes kosher? Say for example, someone takes a song Darkesword did a year or two ago and remixes it and actually does a really great job and submits it.

What are your opinions on that?

Why are you typing with proper capitalization and punctuation in this thread, but then:

"look kid dont take this the wrong way but i dont care about mario and halo together so stop being rude and immature k"

...basically typing this holier-than-thou trolling nonsense in another thread. What did I tell you? I'm gonna have to kick your ass later.

Ugh. Anyway. ReMixes of ReMixes are fine, they're just judged in a tougher manner. Section 6, Part 5 of the standards covers this. That rule is more to discourage ReMixers from submitting mere production upgrades of their older mixes. But we're always open to ReMixing (i.e. substantively interpreting) a previous ReMix or other arrangement as long as there are enough ties to the original game music the existing mix is based off of.

Following up zircon's post, we've actually got 2 ReMixes of ReMixes.

Yeah, judges come and go, and there's definitely no normal length of time they stay on board. Even I don't keep track of average time on the panel. But we've had many on board less than 1 year, and then you have guys like Vigilante (nearly 5 years) and myself (nearly 4 years) who have been on for a dog's age without stepping down for a hiatus. I'm proud to say that I've voted on 99% of everything put in front of me.

Just going with my initial feeling, not looking at any names or lists, most Js tend to give somewhere in the realm of 2 years. Like zircon mentioned, stepping down is pretty much gonna be either lack of time despite interest, or lack of interest despite time, as the job can wear on anybody. If you want a job that pays $0, takes up a fair amount of time if you dig into it, where some will trash your qualifications, your character, and your objectivity, and where the workload NEVER lets up no matter how hard you work, it can eventually cease to be personally fulfilling. For me though, I'm not even close to that point. :lol:

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I was actually speaking mathmatically... like, literally, what's the average?

You must possess zero social grace.

Even I don't keep track of average time on the panel.

IN OTHER WORDS STOP ASKING THIS QUESTION.

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