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#1461 The Derrit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:16 PM

Well, she's not an AD carry like Yi, Trynd, Talon or Jax. She's kind of in her own class. A melee.. AP.. offtank assassin, I guess. I agree she's pretty strong overall, I think the issue with picking her is where to put her in the laning phase. She has very poor farming and lane presence unless someone can help set up ganks/kills, such as Alistar. But then that throws other things off. Someone like Singed fills a similar role, in that he can run into a teamfight, take little damage, and really ruin someone's day, but he is also capable of solo laning. Poppy has no range or pokes whatsoever.


she can solotop against another equivalent character like shyvanna, udyr, mundo, garen, etc.

she can also jungle but people seem to not quite get that yet
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#1462 zircon

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:17 PM

Jungle, really? Her clear time would be abysmal though and she has no sustain. Usually a jungler needs at least one of those things to be effective (eg. Trundle is single-target, but has decent sustain, Udyr has both, Skarner has fast clear). Top I would imagine she'd just get dumped on since she has no poke and no CC unless she's right there, so good luck escaping from any ganks. But I'd be interested to play a game with you and see you try it.
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#1463 prophetik music

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:54 PM

Jungle, really? Her clear time would be abysmal though and she has no sustain. Usually a jungler needs at least one of those things to be effective (eg. Trundle is single-target, but has decent sustain, Udyr has both, Skarner has fast clear). Top I would imagine she'd just get dumped on since she has no poke and no CC unless she's right there, so good luck escaping from any ganks. But I'd be interested to play a game with you and see you try it.


she's an excellent jungle, actually, although she gets most of her money and experience from kills - making her just as all-or-nothing as in lane.

i've had an ad poppy creamate my team from excellently timed ganks all over the place.
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#1464 eternal Zero

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:31 PM

Poppy top is pretty weak. Can't out damage the bruisers unless they're dumb enough to be near walls and you can't out sustain the tanks. It's kind of like Udyr. Sure they can top. Sure they can jungle slightly above average if the enemy team doesn't invade. Overall they're better in the jungle but if you're playing to win you might as well play someone else.
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#1465 zircon

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:44 PM

she's an excellent jungle, actually, although she gets most of her money and experience from kills - making her just as all-or-nothing as in lane.

i've had an ad poppy creamate my team from excellently timed ganks all over the place.


Yeah but depending on who you're playing with - cough Wynks - you/we could lose to AD Sona :P Poppy jungle is WAY too slow to be any good. She would get virtually no XP/gold at all without kills and because she has no blink/jump that isn't targeted, wards counter her 100%.
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#1466 prophetik music

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:06 AM

hey, ad sona is boss!

so is movespeed/as naut =)
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#1467 The Derrit

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:35 AM

i just dove on a team trying to take baron as taric

got a triple kill and the steal. so happy
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#1468 Bleck

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 07:42 AM

why did I ever stop playing as skarner

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#1469 prophetik music

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 05:49 PM

i've been playing a lot lately as warwick or trundle. both are just so good out of the jungle that i'm having trouble finding other jungle characters that are better to play, unless you need a primary tank like rammus or an ap like mummy or shitshaco. i think i'm going to learn to jungle jax and xin next.

trundle is awesome because he just shits damage all the time, can take a beating, and his passive is amazing at keeping his hp up in lane even without lifesteal. it's awesome walling someone in hard, though - i had a game where i boxed in rammus powerballing away on two different occasions, and we managed to catch him as a result. i build him super-tanky, with wriggles, merc treads, sheen or phage into trinity force, then atmogs and usually a ga. i *never* finish builds in my games, usually because they're either over quickly or because i'm a tank and don't get much gold, but i finished that build and maxed consumables two or three times in five games as him. that's pretty good farm for me =) he's already got absurd AS and stock AD, and being able to get up past 500 damage every 3 seconds with his q - resetting the attack animation! - is just awesome. as long as your teammates are smart and understand his limitations early game, he's great, and gets first blood or early assist every game.

ww is awesome not only because of his ult being just so good, but also because by the end of the game he can just stand around and take on almost anyone 1v1, and annihilate them. i tend to build him with on-hit effects and some damage, so stuff like wriggles, spellpen boots, wits end, malady, etc. i did tankwick one game a while back with wits end, wriggles, old starks, merc treads, warmogs, and FoN, and nothing could kill me without constantly disabling me - i could just lifesteal everything back, my passive hp regen was absurd, and i would just run away if they started to really hurt thanks to his e.
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#1470 Bleck

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 05:54 PM

i've been playing a lot lately as warwick



i'm having trouble finding other jungle characters that are better to play


excuse me what

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#1471 prophetik music

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:53 PM

excuse me what


you don't like warwick out of the jungle?

i'm assuming you're going to mention skarner, who is a great jungler. i'm a bit burnt out on him at the moment, because it seems every game i play with him, i do really well, but we still lose. his lack of close-the-cap (beyond just going fast) means that it's hard to get that first hit, and beacuse he has no hard cc until level six, he's not good ganking at mid unless the other player's up at your tower because they'll just flash out. he has a high damage output and can do a lot, and his slow and general utility make him a lot of fun to play, but having that awesome initiation that ww has, plus being able to boost everyone's AS when pushing towers, plus the huge sustain from the lifesteal, just makes him so much more fun to play.

now, ww suffers from a lot of the same issues - but ww can solo dragon at level five or six, whereas i rarely solo dragon ever with skarner. ww also doesn't really need blue, whereas skarner kind of needs it unless he gets a tear and levels it way up. early game, skarner also has to go back to base earlier and more often, since inevitably you'll run out of hp and mana, whereas ww tends to stay out a lot more.

trundle's the same way - beacuse you can start with lifesteal on him, and with his passive, he's always got high hp. he also doesn't burn through mana that fast if you're careful about using contaminate. he lasts longer in lane, and that pillar gets kills hands-down. plus, trundle's biggest bonus is how he shuts down enemies - his q reduces AD by a significant amount, his ult reduces resistances, and his increased AS from contaminate allows him to get his hp back up quick between his passive and his lifesteal. even if his pillar wasn't so good, i'd say that his high damage output with q just makes him amazing.

i know skarner's one of the top junglers in the game, but there's a reason people aren't seeing him as much anymore, just like other characters have started to fade a bit. i've always felt that junglers need some sort of hard cc to get early kills against smart opponents, and more and more that's what i'm seeing. characters like xin, shaco (fear), rammus, and jax are becoming more and more used because of their high early-game damage output and their hard cc, and honestly, i'd take hard cc over light cc and more damage against a good teamcomp.
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#1472 zircon

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 06:22 AM

I don't think Trundle's damage output is that high... it's decent, but all single-target and based on auto attacks. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great champ and probably one of the most balanced around. But I don't think of him as high DPS compared to champs like Riven, Renekton or Lee Sin. He is definitely a tank/initiator/ganker.
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#1473 Dexie

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 06:39 AM

Here's a fun fact. Trundle is the least changed champion in the game.

http://www.lol-patch.com/trundle.html

He's only been changed in four patches, and three of those changes were bug fixes. I guess Riot sees him as pretty balanced, too. Pity I never see anyone playing him. He's a neat champ, I just don't like his style.

#1474 Bleck

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:07 AM

i'm assuming you're going to mention skarner, who is a great jungler.


or udyr or lee sin or shaco or trundle or dr mundo or volibear or jax or maokai or nocturne or rammus or shyvana or jarvan or nautilus or malphite or amumu or alistar or cho gath or xin zhao or olaf or tryndamere

any of those really

i'm a bit burnt out on him at the moment, because it seems every game i play with him, i do really well, but we still lose. his lack of close-the-cap (beyond just going fast) means that it's hard to get that first hit, and beacuse he has no hard cc until level six, he's not good ganking at mid unless the other player's up at your tower because they'll just flash out. he has a high damage output and can do a lot, and his slow and general utility make him a lot of fun to play


this is all true, and he's still a much better jungler than warwick

now, ww suffers from a lot of the same issues - but ww can solo dragon at level five or six, whereas i rarely solo dragon ever with skarner.


the gold gain from soloing dragon early is negligible compared to the gold gain any other jungler can earn their team by successfully ganking before level six

ww also doesn't really need blue, whereas skarner kind of needs it


this is true, but if the only issue was mana, one questions why you wouldn't take udyr or lee sin or trundle or cho gath


i know skarner's one of the top junglers in the game, but there's a reason people aren't seeing him as much anymore


it's because he's no longer super easy mode; champ popularity will always be determined by how powerful a champ is compared to how easy they are to play as

i've always felt that junglers need some sort of hard cc to get early kills against smart opponents, and more and more that's what i'm seeing.


ganks are arguably not about getting the kill so much as it is forcing someone out of lane

skarner for instance can gank pre-six because his Q and his W still give him good chasing power and damage; even if he or his teammates fail to kill anyone, they'll still probably force them out of lane

characters like xin, shaco (fear), rammus, and jax are becoming more and more used because of their high early-game damage output and their hard cc, and honestly, i'd take hard cc over light cc and more damage against a good teamcomp.


you have to consider how worth it it is to have that early game hard cc, though - having jax' stun for an early gank is better than an early slow from skarner, but then you're losing out on skarner's ult which is one of the best hard ccs in the game (definitely the best utility wise of the four supressions)

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#1475 The Derrit

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:19 PM

so.. melee ad "true carry" as they call it

awesome idea? or destined to fail? i love the effort either way
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#1476 Bleck

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:42 PM

fiora has a really boring kit (all of her moves are just slightly different versions of stuff we've already seen) and I'm pretty sure she'll be overpowered when she's released, if only because burst of speed plus lifesteal sounds pretty fucking terrifying

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#1477 Tensei

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 01:22 AM

Blade Waltz (ultimate) - Fiora dashes around the battlefield to deal physical damage to enemy champions. Successive strikes against the same target deal less damage.


Alpha Strike (Active): Master Yi leaps across the battlefield striking up to 4 enemies, dealing magic damage to each enemy with a chance to deal 400 bonus magic damage to minions.



Omnislash

Juggernaut leaps towards the target enemy unit with a damaging attack, and then slashes other nearby enemy units, dealing between 175-250 damage per slash.


Really riot? One champion with that skill wasn't enough yet?

Also doesn't literally every melee carry need some form of lifesteal/regen so they can be put solo top?
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#1478 kupernikus

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 04:21 AM

I don't think Trundle's damage output is that high... it's decent, but all single-target and based on auto attacks. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great champ and probably one of the most balanced around. But I don't think of him as high DPS compared to champs like Riven, Renekton or Lee Sin. He is definitely a tank/initiator/ganker.


Trundle can have some surprisingly nasty burst. He's by far my favorite champ, and I actually have a pretty killer (in my not so humble opinion) guide I've written for him. But I do like trundle as a solo top more than a jungler.
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#1479 SoDoM

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:06 AM

Here's a fun fact. Trundle is the least changed champion in the game.

http://www.lol-patch.com/trundle.html

He's only been changed in four patches, and three of those changes were bug fixes. I guess Riot sees him as pretty balanced, too. Pity I never see anyone playing him. He's a neat champ, I just don't like his style.

Check Xerath, only changed in 2 patches and both were bug fixes anyway i hope Riot nerf his range

#1480 eternal Zero

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:27 AM

Really riot? One champion with that skill wasn't enough yet?

Also doesn't literally every melee carry need some form of lifesteal/regen so they can be put solo top?


I'm so sick of Riot's design team.
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