AngelCityOutlaw Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 So as anyone who's into metal of any kind probably knows that like a week or two ago, Lamb of God singer Randy Blythe was arrested and put in a Czech jail. Back in 2010, there was some incident where Randy allegedly pushed a fan who jumped on stage not once, not twice, but three times. Said fan hit his head and died in a hospital 14 days later. Currently, Randy paid his bail ($200,000 I believe) but will be held in the jail for at least another week. The metal community, being the ironic sheep that most of them tend to be, are saying Blythe is completely innocent. Most fans started saying this the day it was announced he was arrested without viewing any footage of the incident so that they may form an opinion for themselves. Here is footage of the night of the incident: Most recent news I could find: http://exclaim.ca/News/lamb_of_god_call_on_fans_to_help_pay_for_randy_blythes_mounting_legal_costs Your thoughts on this matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Derrit Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 metal divided by chance of metal fans being mature (or having any sort of common sense/idea of how to be a normal human being) = impossible. because there is no chance. they go to metal concerts. edit: in order to only half start a flame war instead of the whole deal let me say i'm very open minded about music and have listened to my fair share of metal when i was younger, but it comes down to being loud for loudness' sake, with some pretty okay guitar skills masked by distortion. that and the community is full of people who are like 'oh yeah hate so cooool.' of course metal bands and metal fans are going to do dumb shit they're way too caught up in being loud and disruptive and destructive to you know, use their brains when in the midst of it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Wait, that's the accident in the footage? People get knocked offstage like that all the time at a metal concert. It's a shame someone died due to that, this time around, but in all seriousness calling that manslaughter is a little extreme. Mosh pits, people that jump from the stage, lots of drunks in the same room; there's always some risk that something could go awry at a show like that. It just looks like an accident, to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceansAndrew Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 ITT the derrit proves his ignorance. Way to generalize, bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Derrit Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 edit edit edit: i probably am derailing this thread and it's sad that a young guy died sorry for his family's loss. having said that... ITT the derrit proves his ignorance. Way to generalize, bro. i'm quite well versed in metal culture. and in this band in particular. none of this is surprising to me. the fact that metal music considers itself theological in nature is also, as a note, bullshit. also as a note metal's connections with white supremacy and neo-fascism (while primarily in the realm of death metal) disgust me. let's take a look at some choice ideas coming from the metal camp. At this point in time, I am not aware of any ongoing disputes in black metal except of course the constant warfare against Christian and Jewish imitators of the genre who preach their own sordid religion through their propagandist songs. and another gem: Some argue the "scene" is ruined by those who are closed-minded and will not accept new ways of creating music or thinking about ideas. Then again, those who are calling themselves "open-minded" usually listen to bands that are mostly the same old trash with a flute player, female vocalist, and keyboardist added to blast out trendy aesthetic touches. nice work there. honestly i would love metal if they just took out all of the terrible lyrics and ideas and just left in the awesome guitar shredding edit edit: i actually made a point to go do some research to make sure i'm not on the wrong page with this metal stuff and i'm even more right than i thought. 'traditional' metal is an inward-thinking, bigoted society of people. i seriously hope that someone can point me to resources that prove me wrong, i'm actually getting kind of upset about how terrible it is a community like this exists anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devyn Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 It's never a good idea to generalize a musical genre. I've seen good and bad in all genres. Awful lyrics are certainly common in metal, but saying that all lyrics are bad is a bit of a stretch. Mediocre guitar? No way dude - Metal tends to push the boundaries of musicianship, and while some bands certainly have crap guitar you're bound to hear some great axe-work from even the worst Iron Maiden ripoffs. As far as metal fans, yes a bunch of them are dickheads, but being a fan of the genre doesn't make a de facto nazi skinhead asshole. So, I can't watch video here so you'll have excuse me for my lack of commenting on the actual intended subject matter - the death involved. Then again, this could've happened at another concert. I remember back in the day when the Smashing Pumpkins had to deal with several fans being trampled/injured/killed - they banned moshing altogether at their shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceansAndrew Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 All ai am saying is that getting information about an entire group of people from a faq page is comical, and while every group of anything everywhere has good and bad, to consider what some random on the internet wrote as absolute truth just makes you look like a fool who will believe anything you read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaMonz Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I don't know anything about metal, but I think there's nothing more annoying than someone who hops on stage (or gets way too close to the band) while you're performing. I think in such cases there should be security measures to warn/block/expel such troublemakers in the audience. So my first thought is that the poor guy shouldn't have been able to get on the stage in the first place. I mean, the musicians are just doing their job. I don't think it's the responsibility of the band to handle situations like these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefairy Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I don't think it's the responsibility of the band to handle situations like these. Basically this. If they had security at the show, then said security didn't do their job. If they didn't, then they should have. What was the guy thinking jumping up on stage? If you know a guy who's a carpenter, and you pay him to make you a table, do you fiddle around in his shop while he's cutting the wood? Manslaughter is the correct charge IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Derrit Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 It's never a good idea to generalize a musical genre. I've seen good and bad in all genres. Awful lyrics are certainly common in metal, but saying that all lyrics are bad is a bit of a stretch. Mediocre guitar? No way dude - Metal tends to push the boundaries of musicianship, and while some bands certainly have crap guitar you're bound to hear some great axe-work from even the worst Iron Maiden ripoffs. As far as metal fans, yes a bunch of them are dickheads, but being a fan of the genre doesn't make a de facto nazi skinhead asshole. So, I can't watch video here so you'll have excuse me for my lack of commenting on the actual intended subject matter - the death involved. Then again, this could've happened at another concert. I remember back in the day when the Smashing Pumpkins had to deal with several fans being trampled/injured/killed - they banned moshing altogether at their shows. thats what i just said the guitar is awesome without the terrible ideas associated with it. i mean hell even if you read the commentary of the incident provided by OP it's a bunch of people being like 'the lead singer viciously protected his territory, beating up the plebians while performing. it was awesome.' being a fan of metal does not make you that, no. but if you consider yourself part of the larger metal community that says things like this: That’s right — I am fucking appalled at the LACK of concern in the U.S. media for the fate of Randy Blythe… Naw, just because Randy is in a nasty metal band, you can just throw his ass in jail anytime you want. The whole of music media should come the fuck out and condemn this arrest and detainment.“This whole thing stinks of a shakedown. And for all you Blythe haters, eat a bowl of dick. Randy is one of the coolest mofos on the planet. Don’t be hating, that’s my job. then i worry for you. clearly that faq is not 'absolute truth' anything that sounds that stupid is opinion and not fact. but it's an opinion that attempts to generalize for the whole. like i'm actually asking you here, set me straight. if you give me something that's like 'look here metal people are thoughtful people who do positive things' then i'll go away. despite this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devyn Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 It's cool derrit. I think everybody gets a little pissed off and lets it ride on the internet sometimes (just look at my post history). It really is a sad situation. Though I will agree with whomever who just stated that bands shouldn't really have to deal with this issue - playing an instrument is hard enough - it's still a loss of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 The metal community, being the ironic sheep that most of them tend to be You're dumb. metal divided by chance of metal fans being mature (or having any sort of common sense/idea of how to be a normal human being) = impossible. You're dumb. People get knocked offstage like that all the time at a metal concert. It's a shame someone died due to that, this time around, but in all seriousness calling that manslaughter is a little extreme. You are correct. So my first thought is that the poor guy shouldn't have been able to get on the stage in the first place. I don't think it's the responsibility of the band to handle situations like these. You are correct. Basically this. If they had security at the show, then said security didn't do their job. If they didn't, then they should have. Security are not miracle workers. Many of them don't even have a ton of experience. You can walk in off the street and be hired for the job. They make around $7.50 an hour. They are not to blame any more than the band is. Think of it this way. The stage is West Virginia. The band are holding rifles instead of guitars. Someone trespasses on their property, they've got the right to shoot and defend themselves. Not only was what Randy did the right thing to do, but he barely pushed the guy if you watch the video. He's a weak little bastard, I figure most of the actual pushing came from the security guy. Either way, in that scenario, they were doing the right thing. This guy broke the rules 3 times. I worked security at Mayhem Festival a couple years ago. The bands playing on the second stage I was working were All That Remains, God Forbid, and Trivium. During All That Remains' set, I had just finished catching a crowd surfer who had knocked my glasses off, and subsequently stomped on them when I set him down. They were squashed flat and I was unable to fix them quick enough, so I went back to work without them, barely able to see. One of the fans must have noticed this, because a bit later he ran passed me and hopped up on the stage. I didn't see him until it was too late but 2 other guys caught him my the belt and pulled him off the stage backwards. Someone put him in a headlock and they booted that guy from the venue. All the way out, no second chance. No third chance. So is the band responsible for what happened to this idiot kid? No. Is the security responsible for giving him another chance after what he did? No. This idiot kid is responsible for breaking established rules 3 times in a post-Dimebag Darrell world, and not having good enough balance to land on his feet instead of his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceansAndrew Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 The comparison to what you are claiming would be some random person reading some of the old and vile unmod posts and thinking that is what OCR is all about. Sure, there were some terrible people posting there, but it was not what the great majority of the site is about. There are extremists and crazies in every religion but they do not speak for the majority there either. There are thousands and thousands of metal bands. Almost anyone in the world can just start a metal band. Just because you've seen a few idiots spouting off doesn't mean the whole community is like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BardicKnowledge Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I can tell you that there is certainly a small subgenre of metal music focusing on racial hatred. However, to judge a very large group by reading a faq/wiki page on one small subgroup just makes you look foolish. It would be similarly foolish to say that all Christians are bigots because you saw the Westboro Baptists protesting something. As far as metal players being nuts, there are a TON of musicians who engaged in incredibly risky and deviant behavior in the 1970s (when metal emerged) across rock genres. Example: I wouldn't describe The Who as a metal band ever, but Jim Morrison did crazier stuff than anyone from a significant metal band (we can argue if peeing on your audience during your rock concert is more or less crazy than eating a bat on stage if you like, I suppose). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Treading into more offtopic waters, I agree with OA. I have been to plenty of metal concerts and many of the concertgoers I have met are pretty good people - heck, even many of the band members for various metal bands I have met are extraordinarily humble. I have heard plenty of stories of great things many band members have done for their fans as well. I've also helped and seen many others help those who fall during mosh pits and get them up on their feet quickly to save them from injuries. Generalization about a culture it seems you don't know much about is pretty unfair overall. There are some shitbag metal fans out there to be sure, and I've seen and heard of them as well (certain black metal bands are notorious for promoting some of it) - I've found them to be by far a minority in my experience though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Plus I want to point out that they're reporting this kid was in a 'metal band' himself (even if it was just a tiny garage hobby thing), so he should have known that what he was doing was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnWake Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I wonder why everyone takes the time to respond to people that are clearly trying to start a flame war. The situation is quite sad. The guy that tried to get on the stage was clearly wrong but some people try to make it like he deserved to die in order to defend the musician. I'm not familiar with the name of law charges in english so I hope the guy isn't punished harshly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 You're dumb. You're dumb. I've been hanging around with various metal communities all across North America and Europe since I was a kid and I can safely say I have witnessed more blind-following, musically narrow-minded elitists in that subculture than punk, goth or anything else I know of. There is a lot of positive things I can say about the metal subculture too though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshaggyfreak Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 The metal community as whole is a strange place. I used to be more into it when I was in college in the early to mid 90s and from what I hear on the front lines, things aren't much different today. There's a lot of cool people out there in the scene but there's also way too many guys who are dicks for the sake of being a dick. This doesn't go for just the people in the crowd either. Bands are rude and discourteous to other bands like it's a badge of honor. As much as I love me some metal and support all of my buddies who are still doing it, I've never been amidst another scene where there's more general hatred. Thankfully, I do still occasionally see pull each other out of the floor of a mosh pit. That's the way it should be. I honestly don't have a hell of a lot of respect for those who climb up on stage knowing full well that it's off limits. This sort of thing doesn't only happen at metal shows, though. Lots of booze plus a rowdy crowd always equals someone doing something stupid. Add the given percentage of plain ol' stupid people and you have more problems. It's the nature of the beast. Stupid happens. With that being said, I don't really say whether or not the dude is guilty of any wrong don't since I wasn't there. Even though there might be video footage, that perspective can be deceptive. If I blame anyone, I blame the venue. They should be providing a safe environment. If your'e worried about kids jumping up on stage, you either need professional security around the stage and have it barricaded. The kid should have never been able to get up there in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Derrit Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 The comparison to what you are claiming would be some random person reading some of the old and vile unmod posts and thinking that is what OCR is all about. Sure, there were some terrible people posting there, but it was not what the great majority of the site is about. There are extremists and crazies in every religion but they do not speak for the majority there either.There are thousands and thousands of metal bands. Almost anyone in the world can just start a metal band. Just because you've seen a few idiots spouting off doesn't mean the whole community is like that. yeah i get that. so where are the nice people? like literally all i want from this is someone to tell me i'm wrong and show me *HOW*. it seems like the people who have been a part of the metal community agree with me, such as: I've been hanging around with various metal communities all across North America and Europe since I was a kid and I can safely say I have witnessed more blind-following, musically narrow-minded elitists in that subculture than punk, goth or anything else I know of. The metal community as whole is a strange place. I used to be more into it when I was in college in the early to mid 90s and from what I hear on the front lines, things aren't much different today. There's a lot of cool people out there in the scene but there's also way too many guys who are dicks for the sake of being a dick. This doesn't go for just the people in the crowd either. Bands are rude and discourteous to other bands like it's a badge of honor. As much as I love me some metal and support all of my buddies who are still doing it, I've never been amidst another scene where there's more general hatred. those both seem pretty concise. The kid should have never been able to get up there in the first place. yes. that is definitely the point of this conversation, he really shouldn't have been able to. so WHY with any other genre of music does this type of thing not happen? yes people have died at other concerts, absolutely, but come on if the status quo at a metal concert is to run into the middle of a brawling crowd (a.k.a. moshing) it really seems pretty pointlessly violent. metal concerts are meant to be out of control and dangerous by design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshaggyfreak Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 When I saw King Diamond a few years ago, I was totally pissed at the venue. They oversold the joint to the point where you could not even move inside the club. The fire marshall would have shut the place down immediately had he been there. Had something 'gone wrong', a lot of people could have been hurt. It was really dangerous but I was lucky enough to find a spot behind the mixing board to hang out. Things like this should never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 yeah i get that. so where are the nice people? like literally all i want from this is someone to tell me i'm wrong and show me *HOW*. it seems like the people who have been a part of the metal community agree with me, such as:those both seem pretty concise. yes. that is definitely the point of this conversation, he really shouldn't have been able to. so WHY with any other genre of music does this type of thing not happen? yes people have died at other concerts, absolutely, but come on if the status quo at a metal concert is to run into the middle of a brawling crowd (a.k.a. moshing) it really seems pretty pointlessly violent. metal concerts are meant to be out of control and dangerous by design. Well, a lot of the things that go on at metal concerts like moshing I believe were first made popular at punk rock shows as far back as the 70s. A guy was actually killed at an Exodus concert in the 80s when Paul (the vocalist) jokingly said, "I wanna see a dead poser". According to legend. There a lot of metal bands out there that are great musicians and real nice people. I've even met a few of them. The guys from "Edguy" are pretty awesome and funny, Kamelot's Roy Kahn, Kerry King from Slayer, Alexi Laiho seemed like a cool guy etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 someone to tell me i'm wrong and show me *HOW*. You're wrong and I don't need to show you how, just like nobody actually showed how entire metal communities were dicks. I saw a couple cryptic statements and someone said "I hung around with metal communities all over the world growing up". That's nonsense and I shouldn't have to explain why. A metal community is not 5 dudes who live at a campsite with you and listen to Slayer. I'd go as far as to say people with little to no experience with venue security shouldn't be contributing to that aspect of this debate. Whether you witnessed someone being a dick on the internet or at a show is completely irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 You're wrong and I don't need to show you how, just like nobody actually showed how entire metal communities were dicks. I saw a couple cryptic statements and someone said "I hung around with metal communities all over the world growing up". That's nonsense and I shouldn't have to explain why. A metal community is not 5 dudes who live at a campsite with you and listen to Slayer.I'd go as far as to say people with little to no experience with venue security shouldn't be contributing to that aspect of this debate. Whether you witnessed someone being a dick on the internet or at a show is completely irrelevant. I work security.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I work security.... You work venue security in Canada? And you're just mentioning this now? The way you talked made it sound like you know very little about metal and venue security, I gotta be honest. If you meant Canadian metal communities were dicks then I guess I don't have experience there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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