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Streets of Rage "Souled Out"

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#21 Rozovian

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

Sound design is very 90's. That's cool. :D Production, unfortunately, is too. It sounds a bit like the stuff that showed up in electronic pop music in the early 90's. You need more modern production techniques to get on ocr, imo. That's not particularly hard, tho, some eq and reverb to separate tracks more and it should be in a good place.

Piano feels a bit stiff. I like the sample-y feel of it, and I don't mind the stiffness during the more intense parts of the mix, but when it has a more exposed part (like at 2:43), it just stands out as mechanical.

It's fairly conservative, but I think it's different enough. I like how it sounds like it comes from a shorter and less repetitive source, but the source is way worse than the mix in this regard. I don't mind the repetition in the mix. Drums could have more fills and a few more variations, even if they're subtle. The bass also. You've got a cool groove, but don't be afraid to develop a few variations of it, and use those variations to control the intensity of each part of the track - as you have with the 1:46-2:13 part.

Ending doesn't work. At least give us a delay tail and a bit more silence at the end or something.

Production update and humanization during human parts and it could make it to the site. Good luck. :D

PRODUCTION
- Unrealistic sequencing - not always a problem, but it's there
- Mixing is muddy (eg. too many sounds in the same range) - not horribly so, just 90's so

STRUCTURE
~ Not enough changes in sounds (eg. static texture, not dynamic enough) - could be more varied
~ Too repetitive - not a huge deal, but i bet the judges would comment on the drums and bass
~ Abrupt ending - it's not cut off but it does end poorly

#22 Red Rum

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:06 PM

I took everything that you said Rozovian, and I worked on it a lot more afterwards. I also took the criticism of other posts on this thread. Let's see what people think about it now. :)

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#23 Liontamer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:50 AM

Saw this gem in response to the judges decision :-D

@ocremix are a bunch of cunts. Six months of hard work every single day, down the drain. I've wasted my time. They can go fuck themselves.


And yet, you had 3 different people basically say a lot earlier what I said in my vote, yet somehow you're still shocked:

I really really don't want to discourage you, but I don't think this will pass. I could tell you "this is awesome and it rules and jgdfgts better pass it", but it won't do you any good. While you have variations, and some original parts in there, the basis of your mix is identical to the original and it is especially obvious in the beginning. The bass is the same, along with the repeating chords, the drums, the overall feel. What judges expect is rearrangement, and rearrangement in its most basic definition (at least to me) is the rearrangement of the supporting parts, of the bass, the supporting instruments, their rhythm, changes in percussive patterns, switching up the style. So, in general, I don't think the rearrangement factor is quite there.

Please keep at it and don't get discouraged!


I love how you've matched the original feeling, but the instruments and sounds seem much too similar to the source sounds.


Unfortunately, this song veers dangerously close to "cover" territory, which will be a problem when dealing with the judges.

Overall it's a really enjoyable track, just probably wouldn't cut it for the judges. Cheers!


Now Rozo was wrong, IMO, and maybe that gave you false hope, but we still have ReMixes that are more cover-ish, retaining the same structure and tempo, but are more personalized than what you had. See what else you can do on the arrangement side or just try another arrangement with more interpretation in mind.

I think djp said it best when I mentioned this offhand in chat just now: "Hey man, no need to call us cunts, we liked the track, we just have requirements that the arrangement change things up a bit more. No hard feelings if you don't feel like it, but we'd love to see you make some changes & resubmit."

That's basically it. Maybe you can't read past the NOs at the bottom of the vote, but we all still enjoyed the track. And we've been called worse than Fucky McFuckcunt, or whatever you yelled, so we don't mind. :lol:

Your production's not bad, just get the arrangement/interpretation component on point, and you're good to go. And if you no longer aim to get something passed on the site here because you don't like the standards, that's fine, but go channel that anger into something positive.

EDIT: Here's the proof that we hate you:

It's definitely cool and well-made, Greg, but it's falling outside of our scope on account of the arrangement approach.


Yeah i'm digging this.

So production as I said, is very good. Clearly passable.

Sorry that you won't be revisiting this, it would make a great track on the site in some form.


Really dig the triplet feel; was not expecting it, and it was a pleasant surprise. I'm really digging the vibe. It's very moody and slightly disconcerting in a mysterious kind of way.

Great vibe, needs some help in the groove arrangement.



#24 timaeus222

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:31 AM

You should try again anyway. Meh, the judges were being nice with the crits, just read between the lines. If you're a person that can bear to adjust an arrangement you already finalized, go ahead. Worth a try. Then ask someone to comment on that again in this topic. Arrangement is a tough judgment call, can't get it perfect right away every time, not when you've just recently become "good" (I'd call myself "good" as of New Year's Day 2013, after 1.66 years). You probably just didn't have all that much time on your hands to practice, or did much of the same level stuff without looking for new and interesting techniques, or something tough in your DAW, or something.

It also helps to have the ability to envision a mix in your head, so you can just try out ideas in your head and then use your sense of judgment to decide what to use and what to scrap.

So yeah. Stay here dude. Don't expect to get something posted within less than 50 OCR forum posts and the rather minimal amounts of advice that you can get within that amount of time on OCR. Not extremely likely IMO. You need more time here to improve your skills in the right direction. I think if you came here earlier than your apparent sign-up date, you probably could have had a mix on the site by now, but wutchagunnado.
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#25 Argle

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:11 AM

It's too late. Suicide is the only option now.

#26 AngelCityOutlaw

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:17 AM

If you're a musician and you freak out on people via Twitter who crit. your music (which is going to happen anyway), that's real bad PR and it can potentially follow you to the grave.

Working for six months on a song and getting rejected by OCR isn't a waste of time.

Being pissed about it is.

#27 Argle

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:43 PM

All I'm going to say is, if you worked on a track constantly for 6 months and still didn't make it different enough from the source, you need to pick up the pace.

#28 Chimpazilla

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

I spent six months on a track once, it got horrible critiques in the wip forum. Clearly I was doing something wrong. I took careful note of the critiques and started something new.

That something new took me four months and also got horrible critiques in the wip forum. Clearly I was still doing something wrong.

I reached out to some musicians whose music I respected, and made friends with them. I sent track after track to them, and clearly I was doing stuff wrong. A bit less wrong as time went on.

Each time I received bad criticism, either in a forum or in an email, I thanked the person heartily for the time they took to write the crit. Then I went off and cried for awhile, then considered the things said, and tried again.

I'm now at a point where I can write something within a couple of weeks and get fairly good comments on it. Still, each person who takes the time to comment points out to me the things I still haven't learned, or things I just couldn't hear because I'm too close to the mix. This has been absolutely invaluable and I'm so thankful for it. I rely on it. I then go off and learn that thing, or fix that thing, or try that new thing.

Each and every time I respond to anyone in a post or email, I'm always kind and gracious, even if the words written to me weren't so nice. If I can't respond kindly right away, I say nothing. Eventually, I am able to thank the person for whatever they said, and 9 times out of 10 their advice was correct. Clearly I'm doing something right. (funny, quite often, these very people whose words hurt me the most are the ones who give the most helpful advice, and often they become my good friends shortly thereafter, but only if I've treated them with respect and kindness, which I always do)

Sometimes I paint myself into a corner on a track and it really can't be salvaged. I used to hang onto that track for months, not wanting to admit having "wasted" time. Now, when I hit that "painted into a corner" thing, I either reach out to a collaborator to see if they have any ideas for the track, or I scrap the track. Either way, I've learned something from the effort and the time is never "wasted." Clearly I'm doing something right.

I also find myself getting invited onto album projects from time to time. I now have a reputation for being reliable and good to work with, as well as an improving musician. Clearly I'm doing something right.

Hang in there. Try again. Make some new friends. Make some new tracks. Get feedback along the way instead of waiting until the very end. And above all, be civil in what you write. You'll get there. :)

#29 Rukunetsu

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:34 PM

Hang in there. Try again. Make some new friends. Make some new tracks. Get feedback along the way instead of waiting until the very end. And above all, be civil in what you write. You'll get there. :)

Well said.

All I'm going to say is, if you worked on a track constantly for 6 months and still didn't make it different enough from the source, you need to pick up the pace.

I'd have to agree with this as well. Cold, but it's the truth. The notion that the more time you spend on a something automatically means it must be good/accepted will get you shot down every time. Be it Artwork or Music.

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#30 Cash

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:36 PM

If you're placing so much stake on one decision, you really need to step back and reevaluate your attitude. Creating music, in my opinion, should be about the journey, the actual process. These are the questions you should be asking: "did I enjoy making this song" and "did I learn something". If the answer to one or both of those is yes, you didn't waste your time. One decision does not and should not invalidate the work you put into your song.

The feedback you received from the panel was very positive, you should be happy. Not everybody gets a resubmit vote, address their critiques and try again. You're blowing this whole thing way out of proportion. They actually enjoyed it, and you call them cunts? :whatevaa: If this is how you handle positive feedback, you probably shouldn't be posting music on the internet. You'll be very lucky indeed if this is the worst feedback you receive on your music.
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#31 Garpocalypse

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:46 PM

Wow damn, some immaturity from a half decent potential. I'm shocked. Not everyone who works on Streets of Rage remixes are this immature. :)

The only remix I have submitted so far was a Streets of Rage mix that i worked on for over a year before it got No'ed. (I still dream of getting it resubbed at some point). It sucked but it wasn't a huge deal. Listening to the version I subbed now i'm glad it got no'ed because it was AWFUL!

On a postive note, if this mix came this close to passing then i'm getting all my stuff subbed NOW. :) or in a few more weeks of work.
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#32 timaeus222

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:11 PM

All I'm going to say is, if you worked on a track constantly for 6 months and still didn't make it different enough from the source, you need to pick up the pace.

Maybe I can put this in a less demeaning way, since your wording sounds just a tad harsh.

Not every song absolutely has to be composed within 3 hours ("Picolescence" by zircon), or 9 hours ("Expansive Networking" by me), or 24 hours (One of my remixes for GBC 25th Anniversary album), or 3 days ("Time to Oil Up!" by zircon), or 9 days ("Cloudhopping" by Chimpazilla and me), or 2 months (a few of my older, kinda bad remixes), or 4 months (a few of my better remixes), or 6 months (this SoR remix). If you've spent 6 months on a remix without a 1-2 week break, that's too much time. Even 4 months is too much. Limit yourself to 2 months max on something. Arrangements tend to come along better as you're writing a song, not when the whole arrangement is already done and needs to be adjusted somehow. You know how humans are; "change is bad" and all that. You can most definitely think your remix is good simply because you're used to it. Just because you're used to your remix doesn't mean it's good. If it's not getting good quality crits (which can absolutely sound negative or positive) after 6 months, just move on and start another remix. Writing music is about learning the process and having fun. Have that fun.

Time doesn't decide how good a song is. The better you get, the faster you might be able to compose a song. Inspiration doesn't come right away. You just have to know when inspiration happens to be good enough to carry you through an entire song and have it sound good. Conversely, spending a lot of time doesn't mean it'll be good, either. You just have to gauge your skill level as you go so that your expectations aren't too high above your abilities. Don't rank yourself higher than your capacity, or you'll be disappointed in yourself for no sufficient reason. "Why am I not as good as him?" "How is it she can do that and I can't?" Who cares? Develop your own skills. When you can figure out for yourself how those people did that, you're probably close to how good they are anyways. Maybe even better if you give that extra effort.

Keep writing music and getting feedback. So Rozo made a mistake saying your SoR arrangement was good enough. Rozo doesn't always do arrangement crits, so it's totally possible he could be wrong sometimes on arrangement crits. I don't do arrangement crits often either, but if I really like a remix WIP, sometimes I take a shot at examining the arrangement. I personally tend to lean towards the more negative end of crits because being too optimistic could bring false hope. That way, if something good happens to a WIP given mostly helpful yet negative crits, the remixer will just feel even more awesome when it turns out to be better than he/she thought. Life is all about risks. You know the rest.
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#33 Liontamer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:23 PM

No worries.

Red Rum was just pissed and it's hopefully smoothed over on the Tweeter. :-)

https://twitter.com/...934313674334208

‏@Real_Red_Rum
@ocremix are a bunch of cunts. Six months of hard work every single day, down the drain. I've wasted my time. They can go fuck themselves.

@freqrexy
@Real_Red_Rum If @ocremix are what you say they are, they could've flat out destroyed my OWN hard work too, as well as countless others :-P

‏@ocremix
@freqrexy @Real_Red_Rum Well, people feeling destroyed after a rejection on something they worked hard on is natural. Gotta bounce back! :-)

@Real_Red_Rum
@ocremix @freqrexy I apologize for my previous tweet. It was immature on my part. I won't give up on this. One OCR is something I want. :)


Everyone's a winner. Back when Rexy was regularly rejected, I'm sure she felt the same way.

The things I'd say to Greg in regards to these replies are two-fold.

1) DON'T compromise your artistic vision for an arrangement to accommodate the OCR standards. When we judges make suggestions, it's with the OCR arrangement standards in mind. But if altering that arrangement isn't something you want to do, and you don't feel addressing the criticisms will improve your own enjoyment of the track, don't do it. Apply our criticisms in a way where you know you're improving the track in your own eyes, and not just ours.

2) We don't want you to put your heart into and submit a track that's too much of a close cover only to be surprised and angry it didn't make it for being too cover-ish, especially after 3 people, including 2 Workshop mods, tell you why they believe it's not going to make it. That said, this SoR track WAS mostly a straightforward cover. If you need guidance on understanding the level of interpretation needed to make it, you have to explore mixes posted in the last year, compare them with the originals and get a better feel for what we're looking for. People are here to help you get to where you want to be. :-)

#34 Chimpazilla

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:32 PM

Red Rum, why settle for "one OCR" posting? Take everyone's advice, stay more active here, make friends etc. etc. and you may be surprised at how many postings you get. Just sayin'. :)

#35 Rozovian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:49 PM

So Rozo made a mistake saying your SoR arrangement was good enough. Rozo doesn't always do arrangement crits, so it's totally possible he could be wrong sometimes on arrangement crits.


With my meandering concoctions (some ppl try to call them arrangements), it's usually for the better that I don't cover arrangement too much, but it's clearly something I should improve on. We're all learning here. :D

#36 Rexy

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:54 PM

In a way, Chimp is right on the connections thing. Originally I was afraid of making such connections in case I'd get rejected again, but if your heart's in doing something for the community, it's a great idea to get out there and see what impact it can make.

You may be pleasantly surprised with the results too; in my case, Brandon Strader towed me back into being a community regular, helped out with gear suggestions and even got me to perform death metal vocals for a yet-to-be-posted track; OA and DusK got me to do piano parts for tracks they worked on; Hylian Lemon wanted a piano performer for an arrangement on one of his Zelda: Oracle albums; and Monobrow even saved an old track of mine that burdened me for years. And that's just the tip of the iceberg; at the end of the day, great connections can help you considerably if you want to be a part of the community.

Otherwise if you're really distressed over the standards, like I knew I was when I was struggling to even get a second track on the site, a brief break from the community and working on other material could help you. In the five years or so between mix submissions for both "Time's Anxiety" and "Hogtied", I focused more time on doing things for myself, improving social skills in other communities, still listening to the odd OC Remix now and again while still looking for album opportunities and running the PRC for a while, and even developing video editing skills which transferred well to OverClocked University's MAGFest set last month. Sometimes a bit of non-literal 'soul searching' would calm you over in the long run.

Naturally, past rejections did make me feel afraid of trying again. But even with recent rejections, I saw that if there was a way to refine the track according to feedback, then I'd be more than happy to try again. The judges are surprisingly more approachable than you think, especially within these past 3-4 years.

As for the tweet, that was the first of four I sent over to Red Rum this morning. Let me get all four to fit the context:

@Real_Red_Rum If @ocremix are what you say they are, they could've flat out destroyed my OWN hard work too, as well as countless others :-P

@Real_Red_Rum If anything, their feedback was gentle. They loved your track, but it needed more arrangement ideas at the end of the day.

@Real_Red_Rum It's bad to see it happen, but if your 'killer studio chops' are in the clear...

@Real_Red_Rum ...then I don't see why you can't try again, same track or not. Please don't be discouraged :-)


The last few tweets ended up summing the whole thing up rather nicely too. I could say more, but I'm sure most of the visitors to the thread have already stated other thoughts on the matter. Again, keep your chin up, refine your arrangement ideas, and let's see you hopefully make it soon :)

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#37 Argle

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:55 PM

Honestly, reading the judges crits makes it seem like conservative arrangement is the only thing holding you back. So just set a goal for yourself to change up the arrangement in a timely fashion, resub, bada bing.

#38 Red Rum

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:06 PM

I just thought I'd say I apologize for overreacting the way I did. It was very immmature and childish, and I was just upset over the fact that my mix didn't make the cut. I should have took into consideration that most works that are submitted to the panel get rejected. It was foolish behavior on my part and unacceptable.

Maybe I should look at this as a learning experience, in multiple ways. Not just for music, but my reactions. I've been at VGM for a very long time. I started back in 2001 on VGMix. As a mere rookie, I was always hoping that one day, that I could have one of my works make it on OCReMix. I've enjoyed a lot of the music submitted here. I love music, especially video game music. I want to be on OCReMix so badly because I feel that this is the place where I could push myself to my limits. Each time I submit something on this site, I usually give it my all. Souled Out, probably out of every single track I've done, I put so much into. I'll admit, I can get lazy at times with music, but this piece was not one I sat back and half-assed. That is why I was upset, and I blew it way out of proportion.

Yes, the judges did give me positive feedback. I should have taken that feedback and reflected on what I can improve on. Instead, I jumped to conclusions and it blew up in my face in a big way. I'm not asking for forgiveness, I just want you all to understand. I've been trying to reach this point for twelve years and I got frustrated.

Again, I'm sorry for everything. I shouldn't have lashed out at OCReMix or it's community. We're all human, we all make mistakes. I'll be the better person here and say that I made a huge one. I shouldn't have attacked OCReMix on Twitter.

#39 Chimpazilla

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

Maybe I should look at this as a learning experience, in multiple ways. Not just for music, but my reactions.


This is the most important thing you said. Bravo! And we are all learning this, every day. Working within a forum is an excellent way to work on your people skills, too. :)

No one here is mad at you. In fact, this spurred quite the cohesive conversation I think. It's all good.

So make some new stuff, post here, and we'll all work through it together. :)

#40 Palpable

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:48 PM

Again, I'm sorry for everything. I shouldn't have lashed out at OCReMix or it's community. We're all human, we all make mistakes. I'll be the better person here and say that I made a huge one. I shouldn't have attacked OCReMix on Twitter.


We've all been there with rejections. First time I was rejected here I wrote an angry screed in my LiveJournal (thankfully, it was private). I had put a lot of work into that mix, but years down the line I know exactly why it wasn't ready to be posted. I hope you stick around, but even if not, I definitely hope you don't give up on music as a result of one specific website. Doesn't sound like you will.





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