Brandon Strader

Tropes vs. Women / #GamerGate Conspiracies

2,105 posts in this topic

Hey!

Remember that controversial Kickstarter about Tropes vs. Women in Video Games? Well here's a video from it!

Part 1:

Part 2:

It just came out, post your thoughts -- better than expected, or as bad as expected? Right? Wrong?

Edited by Brandon Strader

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bah on production value.

eh on the ep only because this isn't new stuff she's really talked about. hopefully part 2 goes deeper with the research she is going to be doing with more obscure games *things that really should be talked about in these*

Edited by Arek the Absolute
edited to save my butt from people misunderstanding

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I thought it was good, but I hope in the later videos they focus more on things we should be doing to promote the female hero.

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Pretty decent, and hits on points that always bothered me in games. I could accept that Peach is always captured because frankly she seems as dumb as a stump (refer to Super Princess Peach to see how clever she is), but Zelda always irked me; especially when she was awesome as Shiek, and as soon as that pink dress went on she was suddenly hostage material.

I'm looking forward to what she has to say in part two. I'm also interested to see if any upcoming examples come from western games. The Star Fox Adventures debacle happened when a japanese company wanted to alter the material that an english studio was producting, and most examples are japanese games too. There are cultural differences between various countries, so it may be interesting to look at that in a future episode.

Kind of sad she has to disable comments on her videos now. It needed to be done, but it's rotten that people that felt like bullying her made it so others can't give input.

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I thought this was very well-done. Good writing and good examples (polished video editing, too). Seeing so many games using the trope one after another made me feel a little embarrassed for game developers, along with the sexist ads, Dragon's Lair, etc. Though I was familiar with a lot of the examples I still found it interesting, and it put a new perspective on some things, like escaping from captivity for a male character vs. female.

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Her points make sense for many of the games she mentioned (Dragon's Lair was too much), but I can't really agree with the Mario series. I mean, Peach is completely weak and useless, but I don't think the game's plot "objectifies" her as some other games do. I mean, Peach usually appears in very few scenes (mostly the ending) during the games and the biggest prize you ever get after rescuing her is a cake. Peach is clearly just an excuse for the game.

Also, I didn't like that she completely ignored the RPG series where she usually plays more active/important roles, even when she is captured in some of them.

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Well... she did point out that Peach is playable in many of the spinoff games, and Mario RPG (etc) is a spinoff. She's talking about the MAIN games, the ones that sell tens of millions of copies. Also, she agreed with you that the game's just use Peach as an excuse for gameplay - practically word for word. But it's like look, if we're going to use something as an excuse for gameplay, why does it have to be this tired trope that just happens to portray a woman as weak and helpless? Why not.. anything else?

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It was a little on the boring side, too long and convoluted in relation to the point she is making. It looks like she has done a TED talk, so it must be within her ability to be succinct. I think it'd be more interesting to me if she found games/stories/ whatever that avert these tropes (as applied to men and women, not just the women) and discussed why they worked.

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She better talk about the new tombraider game, its leagues ahead of the old one and is pretty gender-neutral. i found it to be a good game, but knowing her, she's still going to say its sexist...

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She better talk about the new tombraider game, its leagues ahead of the old one and is pretty gender-neutral. i found it to be a good game, but knowing her, she's still going to say its sexist...

watch what you say emperor charlemange might be around to hear that

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Excellent start to the series, imo. I have to disagree about the video being too long; any shorter, and I think Anita would catch criticism for not providing enough supporting evidence. Also, I'd love to see Anita spend about 50 minutes on each topic and then translate the whole series into a college course, with each topic corresponding to one full-length lecture. I think that the general topic of "female representation in gaming" is easily deep enough and important enough to warrant that level of analysis and study.

As for the content of the video, I thought it was good, yet it didn't cover much new ground for me. It was a very thorough and solid treatment of a topic I feel I already know a lot about. But, with several more videos to come, I have no doubt that there will be plenty for me to learn as the series continues. It makes total sense to tackle the easy and obvious tropes first. Viewing this video as the start of a trajectory, I'm excited for where the series is going.

And contrary to what I just said about the video not really covering much new ground for me, I do have to acknowledge that it did introduce one idea that was new to me-- the concept that the game of patriarchy is played between men, with women being used as the object passed between them. That one's going to take me some time to digest. It's a complete shift in perspective from the notion that men and women are the opposing teams in the game of patriarchy... that's some truly thought-provoking stuff.

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Yeah, it's kind of embarrassing when you see all the examples. Are there any games that have female protagonists who are not a damsel in distress, or hyper sexualized, or both?

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Yeah, it's kind of embarrassing when you see all the examples. Are there any games that have female protagonists who are not a damsel in distress, or hyper sexualized, or both?

I can think of Beyond Good And Evil, but I'm having trouble coming up with some more.

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man that sure looked like a video that took thousands of crowdsourced dollars to produce

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I'm not taking a side on this, but I think TAA has a good point about Anita in general in his latest video:

(Yes, I already know that he's known as an anti-feminist.)

For me, I can see her points to a degree. I think she kind of goes overboard to a level of almost hyper-sensitivity at times though. Also, I agree that she didn't need Kickstarter money to make these videos. Lots of people put out the same level of quality without that kind of money.

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Remember that she only asked for $6000. People donated her because they wanted to support her as an individual. Sure, the physical costs might not be SUPER high (high def shooting, video editing, buying games, greenscreen, whatever) but considering there are going to be over a dozen in-depth videos in the series, the main investment is time. Very few people are able to make long, well-researched, ultra-polished video series without earning revenue at the same time. Extra Credits certainly makes money, for example.

As for that video response, I only watched the first 60 seconds before turning it off. The guy was complaining that she disabled comments. I saw a screencap of the comments for the video and they were universally disgusting.

As to people asking for positive examples, that's already planned as part of the series. I can understand wanting to break down the issues one by one.

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The difference is that Extra Credits started off on YouTube with no Kickstarter or Escapist/PA money coming in. I think she should've had to prove that her content is worthy before doing a Kickstarter.

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I'm not taking a side on this, but I think TAA has a good point about Anita in general in his latest video:

(Yes, I already know that he's known as an anti-feminist.)

For me, I can see her points to a degree. I think she kind of goes overboard to a level of almost hyper-sensitivity at times though. Also, I agree that she didn't need Kickstarter money to make these videos. Lots of people put out the same level of quality without that kind of money.

The problem is, the commenters on her Youtube channel weren't "critics", they were saying shockingly misogynistic and even anti-semetic things. That's not a critique, it's trolling of the most knuckle-dragging caliber.

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Yeah, I thought about posting that Amazing Atheist video, but I didn't want to be the first one to do so. Anyway, I agree with his point about disabling comments. I agree one should be able to face criticism against one's ideas. Sure, they'll be some troll comments, it's part of the internet, but there are legitimate criticisms, as well as supporters. Disabling comments shows to me that she doesn't want a discourse of any kind.

As for that video response, I only watched the first 60 seconds before turning it off. The guy was complaining that she disabled comments. I saw a screencap of the comments for the video and they were universally disgusting.

So you don't even bother to hear his reasoning before turning it off? Why? You should at least listen to his points before outright dismissing them.

And of course the screen cap showed only the disgusting comments, she deliberately selected them to get her point across. Besides, I guarantee you most of those were troll comments (obviously doesn't make it okay). She obviously wouldn't show legitimate criticism or supporters, only the worst of the worst.

Also, take a look at the comments sections of some of her other videos. I don't see many troll comments. I see support and discussion.

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man that sure looked like a video that took thousands of crowdsourced dollars to produce

Their goal was $6,000 and they probably would've broke even on that. Nearly half-hour episodes take a ton of scriptwriting time and research. They obviously have a motion graphics artist and sound designer as well. Putting all these elements together takes more time and money than people expect. Nobody really gets how much of a time sink video production is.

That said, their format is "I talk at you" and could use a little infotainment spruce-up. The solid background thing for youtube talk shows is getting pretty old. "Sets" aren't passe.

The content was interesting to me, but as a person already for their cause, I didn't learn much. I was hoping to come around to a new perspective or something.

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The difference is that Extra Credits started off on YouTube with no Kickstarter or Escapist/PA money coming in. I think she should've had to prove that her content is worthy before doing a Kickstarter.

She already had like 30 videos up.

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The content was interesting to me, but as a person already for their cause, I didn't learn much. I was hoping to come around to a new perspective or something.

That's my problem with this video, Anita didn't provide any ways to go about combating these issues. I agree with her points, but I'm not sure what do with the information. I want to decrease the use of damsel in distress, but how?

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That's my problem with this video, Anita didn't provide any ways to go about combating these issues. I agree with her points, but I'm not sure what do with the information. I want to decrease the use of damsel in distress, but how?

It's part one in a series.

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