Tips for Panning Orchestra?

[Slimy]

As of late, I've been panning all the instruments to where they would be in an actual orchestra setup, more or less - high stuff to the left and low stuff to the right, though I try to keep it balanced.

I'm wondering if it would be a better to pan the low instruments in the middle, and high instruments to the sides, or only pan things that I want to draw attention to.

Any advice?

[timaeus222]

I would just keep panning like a normal orchestra, but remember that some instruments should be more upfront than others. Trumpets are way in the back because they're naturally loud, and violins/violas/cellos are in the front because they're leading. You can simulate that with reverb predelay and attack. Moseph would have more insight into this.

[DusK]

Dj Mokram showed me this handy guide a while back. Give it a look.

[Slimy]

Thanks for the replies! Good to know I had the right idea. That guide is pretty helpful.

[mickomoo]

I swear by this chart. It shows panning position and is cross-sectioned with predelay lenght.

[timaeus222]

I swear by this chart. It shows panning position and is cross-sectioned with predelay lenght.

I forgot I had that. Thanks for reminding me.

[Moseph]

I swear by this chart. It shows panning position and is cross-sectioned with predelay lenght.

I believe the reverb numbers on that chart are the chartmaker's suggestions for additional length on the reverb tail to simulate depth without actually having to model early reflections. They're definitely not predelay times per se, because predelay is much shorter (generally under 70 ms) and scales in the opposite direction.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Moseph

[mickomoo]

I believe the reverb numbers on that chart are the chartmaker's suggestions for additional length on the reverb tail to simulate depth without actually having to model early reflections. They're definitely not predelay times per se, because predelay is much shorter (generally under 70 ms) and scales in the opposite direction.

Welp my work flow needs to be changed now lol

[Slimy]

I swear by this chart. It shows panning position and is cross-sectioned with predelay lenght.

I'm going to have to take that with a grain of salt. I don't think I've ever seen an orchestra with timpani in the middle. And cellos are usually closer to the conductor than double basses, I don't know why they're both panned at 30.

Still should be useful though.

[Neifion]

I know your question was originally about panning, but if you're really going for a sense of space, and if your orchestral libraries have it: mic position mixing. Most medium-to-high end orchestral libraries have mic mixers built in (close, stage/tree, ambient) whose purpose is to give that sense of depth. Panning doesn't give you that. Volume is one dimensional; near and far. Reverb, you get a little, particularly with a good convolution, but mic positions really introduce your ears to that important three-dimensional spatial sense:

Also, you don't have to follow the traditional orchestral set-up to the "T". Yes, if you're going for a classic orchestral sound, do it. But almost all modern cinematic music, especially all the hybrid and "epic" stuff you hear nowadays from the likes of Hans Zimmer, Steve Jablonsky, etc. fudge the traditional setup to at least some degree. For instance, Hans Zimmer's famous pounding ostinatos typically have the cellos and basses up front in a wide semi-circle (24 cellos, 8 basses). You can't get that power from a traditional setup. I used a similar setup for the deep staccatos in my song Blackened Sky (start at 2:25):

https://soundcloud.com/kekopro/blackened-sky

The new Universal logo has twelve horns (six on the left, six on the right). For the first measure, the left side plays; for the second measure, the right side plays in response. And for the end, both sides are playing:

My advice is: don't be afraid of trying out non-traditional setups; they can open up a lot of possibilities!

Edited July 20, 2014 by Neifion

[mickomoo]

I'm going to have to take that with a grain of salt. I don't think I've ever seen an orchestra with timpani in the middle. And cellos are usually closer to the conductor than double basses, I don't know why they're both panned at 30.

Still should be useful though.

Timpanis are usually back center, no? I've only seen a live orchestra 6 times in my life, half of them being when I was too young to appreciate the experience lol, but I've tried to corroborate this chart with various other images

The positions on the chart are physical but they're also represented specially by the delay. So while the timpanis are centered here, they have a delay of 2.5 seconds, the largest delay on the chart. Giving them that delay should make them sound further out.