Why was Chris Kline/Vertexguy rejected?

[dragonwriter]

I found http://www.vertexguy.com recently, and his music is something I tend to hear on OCR. I asked him if he heard of this place, and he told me he submitted in the past and was rejected.

Why?

His music isn't outside of anything I've heard on OCR before, and he meets the rearrangement requirements.

[supremespleen]

His music isn't outside of anything I've heard on OCR before, and he meets the rearrangement requirements.Haha, okay Judge Dragonwriter!

[Dhsu]

Yeah, Chris's stuff is cool, but his arrangements tends to be on the straight (and short) rock cover side.

Edit: I dunno, his Prelude mix might have a chance at making it.

[FiremanJoe]

dragonwriter 4 judge in '07

[The Xyco]

I dunno. Maybe it has to do with the panel being full of disillusioned elitists who are a bit too concerned with nitpicking the technical aspects of submissions and using their big, bad musical brains to confound the common interest listener.

/judgehate

(P.S.: I love you guys soooooo much <<<<<<<<33333333)


Also, this image on his site is pretty ghey

http://www.vertexguy.com/music/chris_guitar_ani02.gif

[Fishy]

Well the prelude was enjoyable indeed, but the arrangement was pretty much straight cover.

I was much more impressed by his high-poly environments :D. Theres some skill right there.

[PassivePretentiousness]

I don't see any krono triggar is this eligible for ocr

[zircon]

Hmm.. some of these arrangements are pretty good, others are mainly covers. His guitar skills are amazing overall, though his overall production could use a little tweaking (the MIDI parts sound really lo-fi, and the mastering seems to lack any high end, though that could be the MP3 encoding). When I searched the Judges Decisions forum, I didn't see any reference to a Vertexguy or Chris Kline, so are we sure this guy actually submitted? If he just tweaked his production a bit and expanded his arrangements he'd have an excellent chance at making it on.

[Liontamer]

I dunno. Maybe it has to do with the panel being full of disillusioned elitists who are a bit too concerned with nitpicking the technical aspects of submissions and using their big, bad musical brains to confound the common interest listener.
This isn't a site for "common interest listeners." Haven't you figured that out yet? :lol:

The other Js wouldn't know about Chris because his submission was never paneled. For the record, Chris was a pretty cool guy when I talked to him via the Shizz forums. He submitted his mix back on June 16th, 2006. This was back before I was given responsibility for following up with form rejections, so it took until January to reply back to a slew of people within a week, including this sub. Nowadays, people receive form letters usually within hours, and usually 48 hours tops.

I found http://www.vertexguy.com recently, and his music is something I tend to hear on OCR. I asked him if he heard of this place, and he told me he submitted in the past and was rejected.

Why?

That's because he submitted this (http://www.vertexguy.com/music/tributes/CPK-dukejam.mp3).

Textures aren't fleshed out, partly due to the percussion not filling out the space in the back and the perc writing being too simple. Arrangement-wise, mostly a cover but with some excellent soloing though over the chords of the original later on.

And yes, 51kbps.

I agreed with Cain that the FF2 (FF4?) Prelude was enjoyable but too much of a cover for the standards. David was too optomistic saying that it might have a shot when this plays it so straight. That just gives off the wrong idea. There's not enough original or interpretive material in here. The same principles apply for some of the other good covers available on Chris's site, like "Double Dragon Theme" and "Double Dragon M1 Jam", which are just short.

Before someone goes into how we hate people simply doing covers. We don't hate conservative covers at OCR, but we don't accept 'em. We're specifically going for something different.

If Chris wanted to get something on OCR, he should add more original and interpretive ideas and integrate them into the source material. Some people think the notion of doing that is stupid, but we've got rock arrangers doing this everyday, and no one's telling goat (http://ocremix.org/remixer/goat/) or housethegrate (http://ocremix.org/remixer/housethegrate/) or ilp0 (http://ocremix.org/remixer/ilp0/) that they're asswipes for doing interpretive arrangements that aren't 1-for-1 covers.

And recruit Shawn Phase to perform the drums! The guy's amazing.

[Dhsu]

I agreed with Cain that the FF2 (FF4?) Prelude was enjoyable but too much of a cover for the standards. David was too optomistic saying that it might have a shot when this plays it so straight. That just gives off the wrong idea. There's not enough original or interpretive material in here.
I knew it wasn't very likely to pass, but it was the one I thought had the best chance, being the only one besides the Duke Nukem Jam that was over 2 minutes (of the ones that I downloaded anyway). There's also some stuff that pushes it beyond cover territory in my opinion, such as the original backing bass and drums, as well as the harmony guitar parts later on. The style itself is also pretty original...the Prelude hasn't really been done like this before to my knowledge. I dunno, I might be mistaken...there might be a dozen arrangements that sound exactly like vertexguy's, but I haven't heard them.

Yeah, the mix could stand to be 1-2 minutes longer with some expansion, but I just wanted to point out the positives.

[Majin GeoDooD]

This isn't really on topic.. but the way he plays rhythm guitar is extremely similar to the way a buddy of mine named Joey plays. I started to play the Nukem track and had to make sure of what I was listening to. Kinda weird..

[Vig]

Don't listen to Zircon or Liontamer. They are just panel n00bs.

I dunno. Maybe it has to do with the panel being full of disillusioned elitists who are a bit too concerned with nitpicking the technical aspects of submissions and using their big, bad musical brains to confound the common interest listener.


This probably has more to do with it.


:P

[Liontamer]

Don't listen to Zircon or Liontamer. They are just panel n00bs.



This probably has more to do with it.


:P
O yah nigga my bad u rite!

[danimal cannon]

Vertexguy is the jam. But seriously who HASN'T been rejected by OCR?

[dragonwriter]

Cool guys, thanks for all the responses. To all you who thought I was acting like a judge, sorry. Didn't mean to come off that way. I appreciate everyone else who gave me the time of day and knew what I was really trying to ask. :)

[Arek the Absolute]

Wow. Ok...
Dude, Larry, why did you reject my mix too? I mean, it sounded like crap but it should have been posted!

lol judge hate

[The Instrument of GAWD]

who HASN'T been rejected by OCR?

DJP, DUH! Probably Pixietricks too but I can't confirm that.

[Dhsu]

I've gotten one NO vote ever.

(It was from Larry.)

[Liontamer]

DJP, DUH! Probably Pixietricks too but I can't confirm that.

djp's had 2 tracks removed.

As for pixie: http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2612

[Arek the Absolute]

I've gotten one NO vote ever.

(It was from Larry.)

Larry rules with an iron fist. Even the greatest of the great will get a no as long as the remix has nothing to do with gran turismo.

[Gollgagh]

djp's had 2 tracks removed.

Removed ≠ rejected

[Dhsu]

Yeah, I thought about mentioning the Amor Mio vote too, but it was a collab, and the decision was in no part due to her contribution. In fact, it was pretty much NO'd despite her contribution.

[Fishy]

I've been NO'd a whole bunch of times. I think I've gotten the jist of how to avoid getting anymore though. Time will tell :p.

[OA]

NO's build character.

anyways, killer riffacge, but it is pretty coverish.

[KyleJCrb]

I seem to remember djp actually did send at least one track through the panel legitimately, and it was NO'd across the board. My memory's fuzzy though.

[megadave]

There are way too many rejections. I mean, if it sounds good and gets you moving, then why does it matter?

[Fishy]

I seem to remember djp actually did send at least one track through the panel legitimately, and it was NO'd across the board. My memory's fuzzy though.

Sounds like he probably did that because he didn't think it would have passed, so if he just posted it there would have been complaints.

There are way too many rejections. I mean, if it sounds good and gets you moving, then why does it matter?

Because the site has a mission.

[Moogle!]

There are way too many rejections. I mean, if it sounds good and gets you moving, then why does it matter?


VgMix! (www.vgmix.com)

Come here for the forums, go there for the muzaks.

Vgmix is like 4chan. If you're willing to sift through the garbage, you can find some real gems there.

[avaris]

But seriously who HASN'T been rejected by OCR?

Jeremy Soule. :lmassoff:

There are others too...

NO's build character.

QFT

[zircon]

VgMix! (www.vgmix.com)

Come here for the forums, go there for the muzaks.

Vgmix is like 4chan. If you're willing to sift through the garbage, you can find some real gems there.

Of course, it has been down and continues to be down, so the music forums there aren't much different than our WIP boards here.

[Moogle!]

Of course, it has been down and continues to be down, so the music forums there aren't much different than our WIP boards here.

Yeah, forgot about that. I'm really wonder if it will be coming back. :(

[The Xyco]

Yeah, forgot about that. I'm really wonder if it will be coming back. :(
In the meantime, you better be checking out Dwelling of Duels (http://dod.vgmix.com/index.php) for some ear-shattering goodness.

[megadave]

Because the site has a mission.

Yeah, I know, I've checked this site several times a week for five years. That doesn't mean that everything has to be rejected/removed meanwhile Chrono Trigger, Sonic Icecap and Zelda appear to strangely slip through with greater ease (maybe originality should be an area of concern in the judging process?)

Hey, I know my place, I don't even remix, but I have an opinion, and that opinion is that there is way too much emphasis on sound quality over feel and enjoyability. I don't pretend to run this site or be some kind of genius, but I think that there are others who believe the same thing.

Now, VGmix, a site that I really enjoyed while it lasted, had much different standards. While there is a lot of shit on there, much more so than there is on OCR, the atmosphere enabled and fostered originality. 10 minute guitar opus? Check A forest mix covering forest themes from different games? Check. There were quite a few remixes on there with mediocre sound quality but excellent feeling.

But does it really matter what OCR does about this? No, not for me at least. I download the WIPs that I enjoy and they sit alongside some of the most heralded mixes on OCR (in my mp3 player of course).

And by the way, I love OCR and always will, I just wish some things were a little different (or perhaps more like they were 3 years ago)

[zircon]

Yeah, I know, I've checked this site several times a week for five years. That doesn't mean that everything has to be rejected/removed meanwhile Chrono Trigger, Sonic Icecap and Zelda appear to strangely slip through with greater ease (maybe originality should be an area of concern in the judging process?)


More mixes from popular games get passed because, amazingly, more mixes from popular games get submitted. In case you weren't paying attention in math, that also means that we REJECT more popular games as well. ;)

[Tenucha]

I cant even access this guys website.... I got no links to his page displayed anywhere!
I see only the updates... looks like the links should be on the left but nothing is showing up

[Sir_NutS]

My Destiny seems to be to never get a YES from Larry. He hates the boomtissery with a passion. Damn you and your judgeftry!!!1!

EDIT: this is a judgehate thread amirite?

[megadave]

More mixes from popular games get passed because, amazingly, more mixes from popular games get submitted. In case you weren't paying attention in math, that also means that we REJECT more popular games as well. ;)

It isn't all exactly on the judges' behalf - I doubt many people would want to reject a remix simply on the premise of it the source being overdone, but that's what I would do.

Yeah, I know, I'm a bit bitter about the abundance of overdone games. I don't expect the world to cater to my personal desires, but I can dream.

[Liontamer]

It isn't all exactly on the judges' behalf - I doubt many people would want to reject a remix simply on the premise of it the source being overdone, but that's what I would do.

Yeah, I know, I'm a bit bitter about the abundance of overdone games. I don't expect the world to cater to my personal desires, but I can dream.

I actually answered your accusation of this last time in the DarkCecil13 judgehate thread. Maybe you didn't see it (it was part of a massive response to several people), but I still have the whole thing. But indeed, we can't help that we receive more submissions from various franchises. Those are the more popular games, and, statistically, they will always receive more attention from submitting artists.

I can't speak for other Js, but I know that personally, I love receiving submissions (and especially passable mixes) from games that receive little to no coverage. You'll never believe it, but I'm just as bitter as you are. I work here every day, and I see the disparity firsthand. I would love to see Sonic Spinball, and Treasure Master, and California Games, and Spider-Man & The X-Men, and Res-Q, and Breath of Fire V, and World Heroes, and Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers, and Duke Nukem. If we got nothing ever again from the most popular games, I'd be ok. But of course I don't truly mean that. And here's why:

One great part of being on the panel is hearing even the tired and true "overdone" themes getting reimagined in ways I didn't think were possible. Shnabubula's SMB "Mario Likes Thorazine" and ambient & Skrypnyk's CT "Back 2 Skala" renew my interest in the old hat themes just when I think I've burnt out on them. They don't impress the most jaded of jaded, but I'm always amazed by what the artists here are coming up with.

Keep it together, though. Some of the lesser known games/soundtracks are gonna get the treatment. We've got a Syberia mix coming up from Prasa U. that I've very glad we got. On the direct post side, Danimal Cannon of Arm Cannon has made sure that Blaster Master hasn't been forgotten around these parts. Anyone interested in Wild ARMs performed by a real, live symphony orchestra? And Top Gear 2 will be here eventually by an old school legend (you can probably guess). Every time we expand the database with a new game listing, with new composers, with new source tunes, that's meaningful progress to me. I always want to see more.

Convince Ryan8bit to submit his Sierra game mixes. He's got this amazing King's Quest V mix that I've been badgering him about ever since I heard it in DoD, and even at MAGFest 5 he was talking about how unsure he was about it. And I'm a judge (and fan) asking him to send it in. There's only so much one man can do! :lol: If you really wanna help, If there's an obscure game arrangement you like, and you think it could make it, as the artist to send it. I will personally thank you for the effort.

[ifirit]

As for pixie: http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2612
It's ironic that pixie's first NO was from Zircon on an opera ReMix. I don't think I could have dreamed that up in a 1000 years. My immediate reaction is to lol at this, but it seems a funnier to envision the situation as an opera scene itself. (ROFL at the prospect of Zircon singing opera.)

[JJT]

i've been rejected twice.

what the fuck ocr?

[Sir_NutS]

And Top Gear 2 will be here eventually by an old school legend (you can probably guess).

If that's who I think he is, (I'm pretty sure I know) I'm happy that at least this track from my unrealized secret project will get on the site :-). I have hopes for two more tracks getting up as well, I'm crossing my fingers...

[danimal cannon]

Convince Ryan8bit to submit his Sierra game mixes. He's got this amazing King's Quest V mix that I've been badgering him about ever since I heard it in DoD, and even at MAGFest 5 he was talking about how unsure he was about it. And I'm a judge (and fan) asking him to send it in.

I don't think I've ever heard a Ryan Achtbit mix I didnt like.

[The Author]

Meh, if I was able to make a mix that would make it to the panel, I would see it as an honor. Howevewr the music is trapped in my head with no ways to get out.


And well, being unable to produce something that sounds like something I have in my head is frustrating and I have all but given up on doing a remix.

[Effector]

A judgehate thread that's actually interesting? Nah.

Gotta give respect to Larry for arguing his case in a friendly way. (I can't imagine the number of times he's had to do so... I think I'd crack after a while.) Plus dropping some nice hints of what's to come.

I'm wanting to agree with megadave here, but I think it's just that I miss VGMix.

judgehate thread, evolve into Ryan8bit thread! Yay!

[Linearity]

Is that guy's submission really unacceptable on the basis of sound quality? From a color and soundscape perspective it sounds pretty good. Of course, it's at a low sample and bit rate, so I can't tell if it's a bad record or just a bad file.

[JJT]

Is that guy's submission really unacceptable on the basis of sound quality?

yes.

spoiler: chris kline/vertexguy was actually the name of Kane's childhood sled

[Linearity]

yes.
kthx.

Does the problem lie in the sounds and mixing of the instruments (which seem good), or is it that the file is muffled or otherwise not mastered correctly?

[The Author]

kthx.

Does the problem lie in the sounds and mixing of the instruments (which seem good), or is it that the file is muffled or otherwise not mastered correctly?
Well, there is a difference between listening to a song and liking it and evaluating it compared to fixed standards

[Imagist]

Meh, if I was able to make a mix that would make it to the panel, I would see it as an honor. Howevewr the music is trapped in my head with no ways to get out.


And well, being unable to produce something that sounds like something I have in my head is frustrating and I have all but given up on doing a remix.

This is exactly the way I feel.

People who are technically awesome but creatively strapped in music should specialize in learning to transcribe music from the technically inept. That would be an awesome symbiosis, especially if mind reading were involved.

[JJT]

kthx.

Does the problem lie in the sounds and mixing of the instruments (which seem good), or is it that the file is muffled or otherwise not mastered correctly?

nothing is going to pass if its encoded that low. 51kbps. it sounds like it was recorded onto a graham cracker.

spoiler: chris kline IS keyser soze

[Dyne]

I found http://www.vertexguy.com recently, and his music is something I tend to hear on OCR. I asked him if he heard of this place, and he told me he submitted in the past and was rejected.

Why?

His music isn't outside of anything I've heard on OCR before, and he meets the rearrangement requirements.

Could it be he was talking about Dwelling of Duels? If so, he's had at least one track that I know of featured there. I know, I have almost a full archive of DoD music. Also, if he's so offended that he was rejected, why didn't he just talk to the Judges Panel instead of you coming here and starting this thread? Wouldn't that be the right thing to do himself?

[CHz]

Anyone interested in Wild ARMs performed by a real, live symphony orchestra?
No.

Seriously, though, goddamn posting backlog. >:(

[Dhsu]

yes.

spoiler: chris kline/vertexguy was actually the name of Kane's childhood sled
*pictures Orson Welles laying on his deathbed saying, "...VERTEXGUY"*

[JJT]

vertexguy. cost: no man can say.

[Liontamer]

Could it be he was talking about Dwelling of Duels? If so, he's had at least one track that I know of featured there. I know, I have almost a full archive of DoD music. Also, if he's so offended that he was rejected, why didn't he just talk to the Judges Panel instead of you coming here and starting this thread? Wouldn't that be the right thing to do himself?

This was answered way back. WAAAY back. :lol: Look for my first post.

[Dyne]

Sorry Larry, I didn't really read the rest of the thread, I assumed it was the same stuff repeated over and over again. I'll look over it again before I make another post.

[megadave]

I actually answered your accusation of this last time in the DarkCecil13 judgehate thread. Maybe you didn't see it (it was part of a massive response to several people), but I still have the whole thing. But indeed, we can't help that we receive more submissions from various franchises. Those are the more popular games, and, statistically, they will always receive more attention from submitting artists.

I can't speak for other Js, but I know that personally, I love receiving submissions (and especially passable mixes) from games that receive little to no coverage. You'll never believe it, but I'm just as bitter as you are. I work here every day, and I see the disparity firsthand. I would love to see Sonic Spinball, and Treasure Master, and California Games, and Spider-Man & The X-Men, and Res-Q, and Breath of Fire V, and World Heroes, and Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers, and Duke Nukem. If we got nothing ever again from the most popular games, I'd be ok. But of course I don't truly mean that. And here's why:

One great part of being on the panel is hearing even the tired and true "overdone" themes getting reimagined in ways I didn't think were possible. Shnabubula's SMB "Mario Likes Thorazine" and ambient & Skrypnyk's CT "Back 2 Skala" renew my interest in the old hat themes just when I think I've burnt out on them. They don't impress the most jaded of jaded, but I'm always amazed by what the artists here are coming up with.

Keep it together, though. Some of the lesser known games/soundtracks are gonna get the treatment. We've got a Syberia mix coming up from Prasa U. that I've very glad we got. On the direct post side, Danimal Cannon of Arm Cannon has made sure that Blaster Master hasn't been forgotten around these parts. Anyone interested in Wild ARMs performed by a real, live symphony orchestra? And Top Gear 2 will be here eventually by an old school legend (you can probably guess). Every time we expand the database with a new game listing, with new composers, with new source tunes, that's meaningful progress to me. I always want to see more.

Convince Ryan8bit to submit his Sierra game mixes. He's got this amazing King's Quest V mix that I've been badgering him about ever since I heard it in DoD, and even at MAGFest 5 he was talking about how unsure he was about it. And I'm a judge (and fan) asking him to send it in. There's only so much one man can do! :lol: If you really wanna help, If there's an obscure game arrangement you like, and you think it could make it, as the artist to send it. I will personally thank you for the effort.

I'd like to see what Danimal Cannon has done with blaster master, but I can't find it. I love his solo work even more than Arm Cannon.

I'm still saddened that Electric Concerto tried to assemble a Legacy of the Wizard project, and it fell apart due to a lack of interest (he could've done better advertising, but some of the big guys could've jumped on the bill and sparked interest) - but maybe it will happen again one day.

As far as submitting a track myself, I know two under-mixed games that are in need of attention. Well, more than that, but only two my group of musicians would be fit for in musical style. As soon as I am finished with my album, I will put some extra studio time aside and get it done - that way I can say that I at least tried.

[danimal cannon]

I did a Legacy of the Wizard song medley once. Let's just say it was experimental... But hey you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

That Blaster Master mix is floating around but I'll wait for it to get posted on the site sometime this next year. The main difference between my solo stuff and Armcannon stuff, is that I don't have to worry about pulling my solo stuff off LIVE.

[DarkeSword]

Snape killed Vertexguy.

[megadave]

I did a Legacy of the Wizard song medley once.

Yep, I listen to it all the time, it's great. I want to hear Blaster Master too.

[Xaleph]

Convince Ryan8bit to submit his Sierra game mixes. He's got this amazing King's Quest V mix that I've been badgering him about ever since I heard it in DoD, and even at MAGFest 5 he was talking about how unsure he was about it.

Ryan8bit has always been very serious about his production - and the better you get the more you realized your previous stuff sucked (trust me, I'm not too proud of some of the songs I wrote a while back). It also makes you concerned about your new stuff, because it's hard to make a "perfect" piece in terms of production. There will always be something you don't like about your piece - especially if you're a very talented artist. This is why it's hard for anyone to convince him that his stuff is good enough. (btw - he's a great guy to work with)


I realize this is very off topic BUT:

We have some songs that will be coming out hopefully soon. We've re-established communication (for like a year of solitude) and we may start on some new mixes. As mentioned before, 3 pieces that we've produced that have never been on ocremix will be submitted before mid fall.


As far as the judges go - you know how I feel. They're doing work that will always be controversial, they put their reputation on the spot every time they judge on a piece as their comments are put into the judge thread, they have to let the musician who put their whole heart into it that they didn't make the snuff (which is so hard to do), multiply this process by like 100 songs a month, and it just really is discouraging after all their hard work to get a thread that publicly disagrees with their decision. IMO it's a free site, lead by people who vote for free, to provide quality free songs, so that you don't spend your own free time trying to find quality free remixes. The fact that they do so much work for us is just awesome.

And also, not only do the judges on ocr do the work, the judges on ocr do a great job at it - keep up the good work.

[Bundeslang]

Vertexguy is the jam. But seriously who HASN'T been rejected by OCR?
Me.

But that's because I never submitted a mix to this place because I know it won't get any YES votes. The only thing what could be interesting is that my mixes get a NO-Override or just 3 NO votes. Even OLR is hard for me, but I have one song there.

I don't think Vertexguy should submit because we want him to do. He must decide himself, he's free to submit the way he wants.

[BigBoss]

IMO it's a free site,

You're right. And it's to this end that, while the judges do not enjoy seeing threads disagreeing with them, they realize that it is not their right to stop them. I don't think the dude's stuff was good enough to make it, and I still like the mixes and agree with most of the judges decisions. But I'll defend mine and everyone else's right to actually disagree with them until I die.

[Liontamer]

You're right. And it's to this end that, while the judges do not enjoy seeing threads disagreeing with them, they realize that it is not their right to stop them. I don't think the dude's stuff was good enough to make it, and I still like the mixes and agree with most of the judges decisions. But I'll defend mine and everyone else's right to actually disagree with them until I die.

"Free site" as in the site's content is free, not that we're a haven for free speech. We're not. :-) You don't have a right to free speech here at this privately owned and operated website. But that doesn't mean all judgehate is shuffled under the carpet. The standards get questioned, so we answer.

[Sir_NutS]

"Free site" as in the site's content is free, not that we're a haven for free speech. We're not. :-) You don't have a right to free speech here at this privately owned and operated website. But that doesn't mean all judgehate is shuffled under the carpet. The standards get questioned, so we answer.
ZOMG SUMBODY CALL TEH INTERNETS POLEES!!11

[Arek the Absolute]

If this site was truly about free speech, then I would be able to say -(Liontamer edit: Can't say that shiz here Nick. You know better)-

[Liontamer]

If this site was truly about free speech, then I would be able to say -(Liontamer edit: Can't say that shiz here Nick. You know better)-

Nice try. :lol: If I edited though, it would show it. :-P

[Arek the Absolute]

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A HUMOROUS POST
mr obvious

[Liontamer]

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A HUMOROUS POST
mr obvious

Nice try. :lol: If it had been humorous though, it would show it. :-P

[Arek the Absolute]

hahahahah
ill get you for that

[Dhsu]

I lol'd.

[Sir_NutS]

Nice try. :lol: If it had been humorous though, it would show it. :-P

Epic lulz.

[BigBoss]

We're not. :-) You don't have a right to free speech here at this privately owned and operated website.

ok sure ok

Mod Edit: NO OVERRIDE