Discussion: Google Ads on forums

[djpretzel]

I know most people are going to read this thread topic, jump to all sorts of assumptions, and come in with guns blazing, but please remember a few things:

We had google ads on the footer in the later days of PHPBB; one option being discussed is to reinstate those less annoying ads, since the site footer for the rest of the site already has them.
A lot of sites wouldn't even discuss this on their forums, they'd just do it; I realize that things like this tend to rub people the wrong way when they just show up one day, without any input being solicited.
We're doing a little bit better than breaking even with our current ads, but every time we do something big - a big shirt run, album promotions, etc. - it wipes us out or puts us in debt, where I end up funneling a lot of my own money in to tide us over, then funneling it back out months later. I'd like to have more financial headroom before we do things like bumper stickers, posters, etc., and to stop taking large amounts from my personal account (which is rather low these days) to temporarily keep us afloat.
Only google ads or other non-pop-up, non-audio ads are being discussed. I hate pops and audio ads and that crap as much as any of you. On the other hand, I can easily tolerate text ads, and sometimes find things I'm actually interested in.Please don't respond to this thread with instructions on ad blocking... this site literally would not exist without some form of revenue, and currently our google ads provide 80-90% of that. Donations and shirt sales alone would NOT pay the bills, by a longshot, unless some very generous millionaires showed up.

So, there are a couple options for integrating ads on our forums:

Footer (consistent with rest of the site, least obtrusive)
Between initial thread post and first reply

Vertical ad on user profile pages (far right)
Some combination of the above
Other ideas (??)One option, apparently, is to enable the most obtrusive option - between the initial thread post and first reply - for guests only. Meaning that if you're logged in, you don't see it. I see that as a best of both worlds scenario and think that, in combination with footer ads (like the rest of the site) and perhaps a vertical ad or something else on user profile pages (which we intend on sprucing up a bit), we'd be bringing in extra revenue with minor impact on the community.

But, hey, what do I know... share your thoughts. There's only so much I can do to assure you that my motivations are for the best interests of the site; recently we've been accused of being "businesslike" or "corporate", which is laughable in one sense since fiscally we'd have the worst business model imaginable, giving everything away, etc., but we ARE trying to get more exposure, pursue conventions and events, etc. in an orderly fashion, which takes both time and money, unfortunately...

[The Unsung Plumber]

I wouldn't mind.

I don't think the footer ads would bother anyone.

Between initial thread post and first reply for guests would give people more incentive to sign up to the forums, which could be good or bad, how you look at it.

Vertical ad on user profile pages (far right). If you look at the profiles, the second column seems like it could take a little squishing.


Maybe for threads that are longer, there could be a banner ad to the left.
<------ There is a lot of space over there.

[Kholdstare]

Ads on the left hand... Ocremix on the right...

Hey, I'd much rather deal with some ads than not have ocr around. I cast my vote into more ads.

[OA]

I think you nailed it with a combination of an ad between the first post and initial reply for guests only and a footer ad for everyone. That would be the best way to do it, and it wouldn't mess with the layout too much.

I honestly don't see too many people freaking out over this, but maybe I am too optimistic. Any site even a fraction of the size of OCR will have some decent bandwidth usage, and it's not free.

[Arek the Absolute]

I think you nailed it with a combination of an ad between the first post and initial reply for guests only and a footer ad for everyone. That would be the best way to do it, and it wouldn't mess with the layout too much.

I honestly don't see too many people freaking out over this, but maybe I am too optimistic. Any site even a fraction of the size of OCR will have some decent bandwidth usage, and it's not free.

I agree with OA. Having the ads come up for guests would bring in quite a lot of ad revenue *assumption*, considering how many lurkers we get that don't have an account. The google ads on the bottom were completely harmless back when we were on phpbb, so they would have a welcomed return if we could get rid of that "DONT CLICK HERE UNLESS YOU ARE 18" ad.

[DragonAvenger]

The stuff you said sounds good. They seem like they would be pretty unobtrusive at that point, and even if they were a bit, having text ads only will alleviate that. I'm for it.

[Doulifée]

no prob for me either as long as they don't product sound. because it's annoying when you listen to mix.

someone pointed the blank space on the sidebar, but unfortunately there is too much way to remove it, so yeah a well integrated footer can work.

[DarkeSword]

I like the footer and after-first-post ideas. I think the sidebar is barren in long threads, and ads would fill it out nicely.

Also, has any consideration been given to selling ad space? OCR gets a lot of pageviews and it's a fairly specific demographic. I could imagine certain companies wanting to advertise. Of course, we'd have to have specific policies in place as to what ads we'd allow, i.e. no flash, we'd have to approve the content, etc. I think it might be worth persuing, in addition to Google Ads. Just a thought.

[Kanthos]

Footer ads are fine with me. I see a problem though with ads between the original post and first reply for guests: they won't necessarily know that by registering, those ads would disappear. If you go that route, which is fine on its own, I'd add a note that registered users don't see those ads beneath the ad itself.

[anosou]

footer ads plz
The after-first-post annoys me but footer or side is all right
MORE MONEY TO OCR :)

[djpretzel]

Footer ads are fine with me. I see a problem though with ads between the original post and first reply for guests: they won't necessarily know that by registering, those ads would disappear. If you go that route, which is fine on its own, I'd add a note that registered users don't see those ads beneath the ad itself.

Such a note is indeed a good idea, imo, as we do want more folks registering and participating.

[zircon]

My vote...

* Footer ads for everyone
* Ads at the bottom of the sidebar
* Ads after first post for non-registered users
* Allow people to buy ad space at a certain monthly rate for a certain spot - maybe use Project Wonderful (http://projectwonderful.com/)

[anosou]

My vote...

* Footer ads for everyone
* Ads at the bottom of the sidebar
* Ads after first post for non-registered users
* Allow people to buy ad space at a certain monthly rate for a certain spot - maybe use Project Wonderful (http://projectwonderful.com/)

I agree, especially with the non-registered users thingy.

[djpretzel]

Hmmm, there's another issue I forgot to mention... probably more important for some users: in addition to ads, there are a couple other reasons why disabling the default vbulletin theme and making the OCR theme mandatory would be beneficial. Namely, we could then do minor template variations on certain forums (remixer specific info on remixing forum, links to mixes on remix reviews forum) and have them automatically override the default OCR theme.

I need to do a little research on how many are using the default theme currently, but given the issues of ads and of sub-templating per forum, both of which are big issues, I'd really like to do this...

[megadave]

Do what you have to do to keep it goin'. That's all I have to say.

[Dhsu]

I can live without a couple bells and whistles. I'd rather not have a sidebar.

Footer ads are fine though. It'd be nice to leave it at that, but if that's not possible, I'd favor the scheme zircon's proposed. Dunno how the default vB skin will affect the sidebar ads though.

[Old Man Time]

I like the footer and after-first-post ideas. I think the sidebar is barren in long threads, and ads would fill it out nicely.

Also, has any consideration been given to selling ad space? OCR gets a lot of pageviews and it's a fairly specific demographic. I could imagine certain companies wanting to advertise. Of course, we'd have to have specific policies in place as to what ads we'd allow, i.e. no flash, we'd have to approve the content, etc. I think it might be worth persuing, in addition to Google Ads. Just a thought.

I agree, I would be surprised if game companies wouldn't want to advertise on OCR.

[jmr]

I really haven't got that much to add.
I don't mind unobtrusive advertising, so anything without sound, popups, offensive content or seizure-inducing flashing colors should be fine.
As others have mentioned, there's plenty of unutilized space to the left below the navigation sidebar that could be used as ad space (on both the main pages and the forums).
As for the in-thread advertising between the first and second posts, I'm completely okay with that, as long as it doesn't appear when I'm logged in.

[supremespleen]

As long as they don't have sound, OCR deserves lots of cash.

[Dhsu]

One thing I'm not entirely sure about is why enabling multiple skins would preclude having stuff like remix links in the review threads. I remember those were implemented in phpBB without much of a problem, it's just that the people using different themes couldn't see them. I wouldn't mind a similar arrangement with vB.

[DuskyFerret]

Yea ads are a decent idea. Anything that isn't those freakin Smiley adds that make noise when you roll over them is fine by me. Man those things are annoying.

Do what you have to to pay the bills, and keep a little financial reward for yourself if need be ;)

[DarkeSword]

One thing I'm not entirely sure about is why enabling multiple skins would preclude having stuff like remix links in the review threads. I remember those were implemented in phpBB without much of a problem, it's just that the people using different themes couldn't see them. I wouldn't mind a similar arrangement with vB.

I think there's a tighter integration planned with remix pages and review threads than just a link back. I don't have any details, but I believe Dave mentioned something to the effect a few days ago in the j-chat.

[Dunnowhathuh]

Think everyone's cool with the footer. I'll be happy so long's the ads don't make friggin sounds. In terms of something more detailed though, I reckon Zircon's idea is a good one.

[BardicKnowledge]

Zircon is (as usual) on top of the ball with this -- I wouldn't mind the left sidebar ads either, which is what seems to be the main debate at this point. As long as there's no audio / flashing video, people won't mind at all...most of us understand that running a site this big eats lots of money.

[Knives]

I don't mind left sidebar ads, we have a bunch of empty space to the left anyway and it's no more in the way of anything than the footer ads would be. Go ahead and put ads on the footers and below the side bar on the left. And I think as some other OCRers mentioned, try to get some deals djp! Anyone can get google ads on their site, but OCR could most definitely get ads from companies that make games, whether commerical games or free online mmorpgs, with as much traffic as this site gets I'm sure some companies will be quite interested in advertising with OCR considering how everyone who goes here more or less loves video games.

[Legion303]

recently we've been accused of being "businesslike" or "corporate", which is laughable in one sense since fiscally we'd have the worst business model imaginable, giving everything away, etc., but we ARE trying to get more exposure, pursue conventions and events, etc. in an orderly fashion, which takes both time and money, unfortunately...

It's your site, and if whiners don't like it they can go to another videogame remix site. I say "all of the above" as far as ad placement goes.

-steve

PS: when you have an IPO, then I'll be concerned about the site being too businesslike.

[Dhsu]

And I will be the first to buy a share.

[djpretzel]

Cool, thanks for the feedback and support, everyone.

Initially I'm just going to reinstate the footer ad and login-dependent sub-first post ad, but I'll definitely be looking into some of the other suggestions that have been made.

I'm not sure whether we'll get enough fundage in by the end of the year to do any posters or bumper stickers or what not, but if not, '08 for SURE. I want one for myself, dammit.

[Nineko]

More ads are ok

[SirChadlyOC]

RIDICULOUSLY LARGE PROFILE PIC

I think what everyone is saying by not saying it is that we are not ready to put advertisements on the profile pages, at least not yet.

As for the left sidebar ads, would they harmfully disrupt the layout when there's only one or two posts on a page? If so, I'd rather go without them for the time being. The other stuff is probably a good idea for the longevity of OkRaMix.

[neminem]

Yeah. I don't care about ads at all, as long as:
a. they aren't bright and flashing, and don't play sound without you asking them to,
b. they don't disrupt the page layout (I've seen it before),
c. they're never even slightly nsfw, and
d. THEY DON'T HAVE VIRUSES IN THEM! That one's the kicker - I've seen multiple instances of ad services getting hacked or tricked into serving virus-loaded images, or javascript that tries to download something illegitimately onto the computers of everyone who sees it. That is never ok.

But, given that you're getting ads from a reputable source (i.e. google), I don't think any of those concerns will be issues. So do what you like.

[FiremanJoe]

I realize that things like this tend to rub people the wrong way when they just show up one day, without any input being solicited.

That is really rich. I guess it could be worse, if pixie was the owner of this place and saying it, though.
Not that anybody still holds a grudge or anything though. You're right, it is your site, so do as you please.

[PassivePretentiousness]

have you considered offering various individuals/sites the ability to "sponsor" a remix and have their ad permanently on the remix page?

[Dhsu]

That is really rich. I guess it could be worse, if pixie was the owner of this place and saying it, though.
Not that anybody still holds a grudge or anything though. You're right, it is your site, so do as you please.
:?

:roll:

[djpretzel]

That is really rich. I guess it could be worse, if pixie was the owner of this place and saying it, though.
Not that anybody still holds a grudge or anything though. You're right, it is your site, so do as you please.

I'll tell you what's rich: tempban for a week. THAT'S rich. And creamy, too. Off-topic trolling and insulting site staff.

Honestly, if you're going to hold a grudge, don't do it in a way that's so readily addressable.

have you considered offering various individuals/sites the ability to "sponsor" a remix and have their ad permanently on the remix page?

I have now... it's not an awful idea, but it creates a relationship between the advertiser and the ReMix/ReMixer that I'm not sure I'm cool with; I suppose as long as the ads in question were videogame-related, it COULD work. Anything like this, that's more involved, is potentially something to consider down the road - for now, in order to focus on other site development features that people will actually like, I really just wanted to quickly reinstate some basic google ads. Beyond that, we'll see, but I like the ideas people have been coming up with and am documenting them for future reference.

[tk]

I don't have a problem with you including googleads. Pretty much every site on the internet has some kind of advertising on it now, and it's getting quite odd to see a site without advertising if I'm honest.

As long as they are subtle and don't detract from experience of using the site then it should be fine.

[Adun The Untouchable]

honestly i dont mind google's text adds. it really adds to the whole practicality that 'running a website isnt free' idea.

i dont like the member vs no member idea. something small and relatively out of the way. i think smashboards came close with an ad after the thread creator. a small horizonal google ad would work great imo. or maybe after the first post on every page if you guys need funds that bad.

[Shael Riley]

I'm in favor of Google adds on the forum.

They're a totally unobtrusive way to generate resources for OCR.

Come on, kids; think of the resources!

[Imagist]

I'm just going to echo the idea of vertical ads below the left sidebar. Unobtrusive, but still visible.

[Torzelan]

"Everyone agrees!"

Do what you have to do to keep it goin'. That's all I have to say.

QFT, really. Wanted to be more constructive but couldn't think of any way to word it without potentially causing off-topic discussion so there you go!
+1 support

[Drack]

Google's ads are generally the most relevant *and* the least obtrusive. Good choice with them as the ad service.

Especially when they're at the bottom of the page. More obtrusive ads for unregistered users is also not a bad idea, djp.

Do we have a significant percentage of forum traffic from unregistered users though?

[The Unsung Plumber]

Do we have a significant percentage of forum traffic from unregistered users though?

uh, YES.

like now on the front page of the forums,Currently Active Users: 132 (12 members and 120 guests) At 6:57 AM EST

[Effef]

I wouldn't mind a few for registered users honestly. Google ads really aren't that intrusive.

[Hausdog]

Google ads are a great idea. If you were buying Flash ads, odds are the creators would say "Hey, it's a music site!" and put a bunch of generic boom-tss techno crap.

[anosou]

Google ads are a great idea. If you were buying Flash ads, odds are the creators would say "Hey, it's a music site!" and put a bunch of generic boom-tss techno crap.

OMG YOU DISSIN' TECHNO!? OUT!
Okay seriously, yeah. Do it already Dave. You need the money.

[eppy]

as long as it's not a bother..i don't really mind :)

[MasterSenshi]

It's not my site, but if I had a setup this nice, I would probably cash in. Make it look elegant, and get paid, man!

[Hausdog]

OMG YOU DISSIN' TECHNO!? OUT!
Okay seriously, yeah. Do it already Dave. You need the money.
Umm... I was using "Generic boom-tss techno" as a complex modifier for the noun "crap". It's crap of the generic boom-tss techno variety. You know, the stuff that would get the letter.
And I'd like to voice my support yet again for ads. Hell, I'd even be willing to deal with jpeg ads in all the places they sell them for unregistered AND registered users because this site definitely deserves the money.

[SLyGeN]

I've actually found that I am no longer on top of most of the new games coming out because I don't see TV commercials anymore, and I don't read gaming magazines.

If there were ads for current generation games, I would actually find that useful. Everyone would win.

[DarkCecil13]

I'm in favor of Google adds on the forum.

They're a totally unobtrusive way to generate resources for OCR.

Come on, kids; think of the resources!

yes, Shael has it right.
+1 Support

[djpretzel]

Done, for now. Should be interesting to see how things go.

Thanks for all the support, folks. We've got an insanely aggressive agenda for 2008 - the fundage is definitely going to be needed.