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Culturekoi
11-27-2007, 10:37 PM
Hey, so I was just thinking I have about no artists with female vocalists in my music collection (save for a few from here at OCR and a couple Tsunami Bomb songs).

Seeing as how this is a very music-oriented community, I was wondering, does anyone here have suggestions for good rock or metal bands with female lead vocalists? I would like to specify what I'm going for-- I'm not looking for Symphonic metal, such as Nightwish or... Well, if you don't know Nightwish, Google it, and that's really not what I'm after (on second thought, Evanescence is also a good example of what I don't want). I'm also not looking for super-clean sounding pop-rock things like... God, I know I'm mixing up genres here, but artists like Feist, Avril Lavigne, that kinda stuff.

Basically, what I'm after is good hard rock, alt, grunge, heavy/power/speed metal, punk, etc... with female vocalists. I dunno if you guys are familiar with them, but Tsunami Bomb is a great example of what I'm talking about, but I've been trying to find other stuff. Oh, and final note, English-language is preferred but not a necessity- I'm very aware that Europe has some great, great rock/metal musicians, as do some Asian countries.

So, do share please, I'm all ears. I'd look for myself, but when I look up bands with female vocalists I either get new-age hippy-ish stuff (which is fine but not what I'm interested in) or symphonic metal that just makes me lol. Hard. (no offense if you dig that stuff).

tl;dr- bands with female rock/metal vocalists, GO

Tensei
11-27-2007, 11:00 PM
In Before CHIPP!

Arch Enemy is the band I recommend. Angela Gossow is a BEAST!

transientgrifter
11-27-2007, 11:01 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Bands_with_female_lead_singers

Also, I'll second what Tensei said about Arch Enemy. :D

Culturekoi
11-27-2007, 11:42 PM
Holy shit, I just went to youtube and saw a vid of Arch Enemy. Jesus, if I'd heard that without a video and the knowledge the singer was a woman, I would have never believed it. I need to look into this... Fantastic music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Bands_with_female_lead_singers

Also, I'll second what Tensei said about Arch Enemy. :D

Hehe, Wikipedia was the first thing I checked out, naturally. But with what appears to be about 600 bands on the list, I had no damned clue where to start- I mean, how many of those are what I'm actually looking for, and how many are actually any good? That's why it's always better to ask people who might have decent taste in music.

Harmony
11-27-2007, 11:46 PM
Genre descriptions make my head hurt, but if you're after hard/punk/speed/metal/etc, Melt Bananna (http://www1.parkcity.ne.jp/mltbanan/) probably fits somewhere in there and they rock. Also, Milka (http://www.myspace.com/milka) is a great band out of Orlando FL that are a little softer and more towards the pop side of things. Maybe too close to that Evanescence vibe sometimes, but I thought I'd put in a good word for them anyway.

SotSS
11-27-2007, 11:59 PM
Aside from Arch Enemy, there is:

Shadow: A melodeath band from Japan. They only ever made one album (self-titled) and then suddenly they disappeared, but it's a good album if you like In Flames Whoracle era melodeath.

Light This City: A metalcore band from the U.S. Their vocalist is female and a pretty good lyricist (read the lyrics to "The Eagle" for a good example of quality lyric writing). EDIT: Here's a music video of one of their newer songs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H4SVRApGhM

Darkestrah: A black metal band from Germany. Their latest is more melodic and atmospheric (akin to Two Hunters from Wolves In The Throne Room), while their older stuff is a little more kvlt. EDIT: Heres a live video from 2006. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQOfwPwlTq8

Thats all I can think of at the moment.

Culturekoi
11-28-2007, 12:17 AM
Genre descriptions make my head hurt, but if you're after hard/punk/speed/metal/etc, Melt Bananna (http://www1.parkcity.ne.jp/mltbanan/) probably fits somewhere in there and they rock. Also, Milka (http://www.myspace.com/milka) is a great band out of Orlando FL that are a little softer and more towards the pop side of things. Maybe too close to that Evanescence vibe sometimes, but I thought I'd put in a good word for them anyway.

Honestly, the genres and sub-genres drive me nuts, too. I was just trying to specify what I was after to make it easier for y'all helpful folks. ANYWAY, I checked out some tunes by Melt Banana, and they're interesting, that's for sure. I'll check out some more stuff, it's pretty trippy. Haven't looked up Milka quite yet, but I will and I'll let you know how it goes :)

SotSS- I checked out all those bands. I absolutely LOVED Light This City, THAT'S the kinda stuff I'm after, for sure. Shadow isn't too bad, and Darkestrah is definitely very good stuff, too, although something about the singer's voice didn't sound as good as LTC. I'll see if I can look up something better quality than a youtube video, but this is definitely going on the right track.

Angelus Laminarum
11-28-2007, 12:27 AM
As far as heavier rock/metal goes, I'm really getting into the symphonic rock genre. The fusion of rock with orchestral elements really brings the music to a whole new level, in my opinion.

To that end, check out the Finnish band, Nightwish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightwish). I haven't gone as far back as their first albums, but from what I've heard, they have a pretty neat sound. There's actually two lead vocalists, the second having been hired for the most recent album after they dismissed the first. Try not to get caught up in the fanboy war between their followings as you look for their music. =)

Also symphonic rock, Within Temptation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Within_Temptation) is from the Netherlands. They're a little bit closer to a more typical rock sound than Nightwish, but still unique in their own right.

Shining Mirage
11-28-2007, 12:51 AM
Arch Enemy before anything.

Lacuna Coil if you're adventurous. *shrugs*

Maruku
11-28-2007, 12:57 AM
I am a fan of Flyleaf, more mainstream, I know, but it's still pretty sick. More of a...I dunno how to describe it, it has some screaming but I dunno if that's your thing. She isn't exactly the best vocalist, she sounds cracked out half the time, but the music is pretty much in your face, and I dig that.

DragonAvenger
11-28-2007, 01:43 AM
Within Temptation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4rrCGI2cYQ
Video's kinda meh, but I love the song.

Smoke39
11-28-2007, 01:59 AM
I'm bad with subgenres, but Benedictum's worth a look.

Fenrir
11-28-2007, 02:22 AM
Within Temptation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4rrCGI2cYQ
Video's kinda meh, but I love the song.

That's some good stuff.

KyleJCrb
11-28-2007, 02:27 AM
Vice Squad is worth a look.

transientgrifter
11-28-2007, 02:28 AM
Shadow[/B]: A melodeath band from Japan. They only ever made one album (self-titled) and then suddenly they disappeared, but it's a good album if you like In Flames Whoracle era melodeath.
I'll have to check this out.

Aninymouse
11-28-2007, 03:36 AM
So, like, I don't know many bands that are gonna sound like Light This City AND have female vocalists... in fact, I've got just one (and they're not as hardcore, even). But... on the off chance that you could just be a lover of female voices like me and not be just looking for stuff you ALREADY know you like, I've listed a bunch o' bands with female vocals I like below. Most aren't hardcore, but a handful are, actually. Every artist on my list is going to sound really different, so I'm gonna make it easy on you by giving you youtube links to a song or two by each. Sit back and see what tickles your fancy! I gave some real basic genre distinctions so you could alternatively just skip around if you're shallow :<

A Fine Frenzy - very laid back alternative rock, lots of piano, subtle sequencing flair, sound is best described as "sweeping," brand new act

"Rangers" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=1f1o6Q5lQJo)
"You Picked Me" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=J1BaeC5fJxo)

Bat For Lashes - experimental alternative pop, lots of varied instruments (harpsichords, for one!), poetic lyrics at times, almost indie, several "unplugged" songs.

"What's A Girl To Do?" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=n1wnOUH2jk8)
"Trophy" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=juaCNanSPcM&feature=related)
"Tahiti" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BmZxDUUtMTU)

The Birthday Massacre - retro rock/pop, almost industrial, keytar, some darker songs, some that border on happy hardcore, very "fun"

"Blue" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=kp1FRKc24Zk)
"Red Stars" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=DyY9SgYaLls)
"Holiday" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=8m3UAWxqKRI)
"Falling Down" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=QBEcpJfZfqM)

Björk - She's Björk! Crazy experimental music, could vaguely be described as "pop" at times.

"Earth Intruders" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=MIxuw5Npw-o)
"It's Oh So Quiet" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=g8Z1MpcyqQU)

Blonde Redhead - shoegazer/noise rock with an indie tilt, not for everyone

"23" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=a7FqUNlEdwA)

Brandi Carlile - Straight up pop rock, but the vocals have an undeniably charming country warble to them

"What Can I Say" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=_ZYuA8evZio)

Cibo Matto - disbanded alternative duo of Yuka Honda and Miho Hatori, lots of genre blending like jazz, hip-hop, swing, latin, electronic, hard rock and pop, among others

"Birthday Cake" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9MqbYn2ZRsc&feature=related)
"Sugar Water" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=659LXeV9ZPQ)
"Moonchild" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ViyTAPrGijk)
"Spoon" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cz-d9cupcH4)


Deerhoof - Experimental noise rock band with lots of short songs focused heavily on melody and featuring simple lyrics

"Panda Panda Panda" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=DVl-doNlOsQ&feature=related)
"L'Amour Stories" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=kVpmslmWpXE)

Flyleaf - hard rock/screamo Christian band, you've probably heard them on the alternative radio stations a lot lately (even though their CD came out in 2005)

"Red Sam" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BBhJ1t531NI&feature=related)
"All Around Me" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=_-sNIWi2fLs)

Garbage - You remember Garbage, right? Electronica/alt rock band with quite a few mainstream hits, lots of very different material and subject matter, some fantastic upbeat and slow songs

"You Look So Fine" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=wlfTJRUXxUA&feature=related)
"Only Happy When It Rains" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=zdodc1Eu1nA&feature=related)

Girl in a Coma - Alt rock band that likes to mix up the soft jams with the hard, driving riffs, lots of momentum

"Clumsy Sky" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=N0gJ5iiEBp0&feature=related)
"Their Cell" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=f12vB7mB3OM&feature=related)

Jack Off Jill - hard/punk rock band, toured with Marilyn Manson extensively while they were together, very cool but harder than the mainstream

"Fear of Dying" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=5jEEqP5__Pc)
"Author Unknown" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=hS3oe2qlvo4)

Joydrop - alt rock/electronic band with an easy sound and some tongue-in-cheek lyrics at times

"Sometimes Wanna Die" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=uyBsQ5lYaVE&feature=related)
"American Dream Girl" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=8-dFfKjMlFo)

Kate Mann - rock with a nice country slant, very well-produced album imo, she's really new so it's hard to find a decent example... sorry.

"In A Movie" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pEvStISjXSw)

The Knife - Electronica/pop rock brother/sister duo from Sweden, very unique spin with several songs poking fun at men or relationships, but plenty of straightforward pop, too

"You Take My Breath Away" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=nGgo8Zlr2cs)
"Silent Shout" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=c7EYiFzNohU)
"One Hit" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=iJJke3LLFPo)

Ladytron - electroclash band that plays all their music on four Korg synths, a song or two in BULGARIAN, moody, vaguely danceable

"Destroy Everything You Touch" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=QOkOnjLv6qI)
"Beauty*2" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=duy55RwlM6A)

Let's Go Sailing - soft alt rock band with lots of happy songs, some orchestration, and whimsical lyrics

"Sideways" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=soqTvYx_5oM)

Neko Case - alt country/rock artist with an amazing voice, a lot of her music carries a distinctive sound, and although there's a lot of variance in the songs, They all carry that singer-songwriter vibe. Personally, I like it a lot, but not for everyone. Let me say, though... she totally blows me away.

"Hold On, Hold On"
(http://youtube.com/watch?v=50dzxkJa1NE)
"Deep Red Bells" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=eboVW4SXZdQ)
"Maybe Sparrow" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LVjcsRO6N7s)
"I'll Be Around"
(http://youtube.com/watch?v=9gQyJBTzIH4)

Nightwish - symphonic metal with a definitive operatic flair, some ballads, some truly epic and/or sad songs

"Dead Boy's Poem" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=aCK56df-Svc)
"End of All Hope" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=p6xaIPszwpo)
"Nemo" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=bSc7HkUnwuA)


Portishead - pretty much the forerunner of trip-hop. If you know what that is, you'll love them.

"Glory Box" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=imrfo-uRjcE)

Shiny Toy Guns - electronic/new wave band that shares the mic between a girl and a guy, a fairly new act out of California

"le Disko" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OBDwYaZKfnM)
"Jackie Will Save Me" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BISjD7p8OHY)


I spent a lot of time finding some decent quality clips, so hopefully you find something you like!

SotSS
11-28-2007, 04:38 AM
Wow, Deerhoof's drummer may not be the best drummer in the world, but he puts on a hell of a show. I love it. Drummers are usually boring to watch (masters of the trade such as Buddy Rich and Michael Mangini are exceptions, of course), but I like his energy.

FiremanJoe
11-28-2007, 04:39 AM
Some great suggestions so far. Lots of good music taste around here ;)
Stricltly speaking, Apocalyptica's music is instrumental, but some of their tracks feature vocalists. (omfg don't even touch their latest album it is trash. stick with the older stuff) Female vocalists they've worked with previously include Sandra Nasic of Guano Apes, Marta Jandova of Die Happy and Manu of Dolly. I haven't been able to get my hands on any of Dolly's music, but I'd definitely recommend Die Happy and Guano Apes to you. Good German alt rock.

Aninymouse
11-28-2007, 04:46 AM
I'd like to also mention Paramour, too, if I may. I haven't heard many of their songs, but I like "Misery Business."

Citris
11-28-2007, 04:51 AM
Thanks, Aninymouse. I've been looking for new music, and you've given me a lot to look into.

I read a lot of Light this City's lyrics, and HOLY CRAP. The subject matter is similar, but it's a cool subject and all of the songs are well written. Some of them really stand out. (The Eagle and Like Every Song's our last I loved)

Within Temptation... I disliked. I hate when women sing in falsetto, and they just kind of sound like a Evanescence clone. Or vice versa, whomever came first. Anyway, falsetto bad.

Aninymouse
11-28-2007, 04:57 AM
I like that Evanescence was brought up a few times, because it gives me the opportunity to say this: As much as I liked "My Immortal" on their debut, the music, lyrics AND singing have gotten much worse since then. It annoys and saddens me that that woman sings in a grating monotone throughout any of the new songs I've heard.

EDIT: I'd like to add that the lyrics to "The Eagle" have impressed me thus far. Granted, I haven't actually heard the song yet.

Imagist
11-28-2007, 04:59 AM
Blonde Redhead is better on their last two albums, Misery Is a Butterfly and 23
Pixies when Kim Deal sings, e.g., "Gigantic" and "Into the White"
Rilo Kiley is poppier but still great (see "Portions For Foxes")
Sonic Youth when Kim Gordon sings, which is a lot
Yeah Yeah Yeahs are all-around excellent all the time

SotSS
11-28-2007, 05:19 AM
EDIT: I'd like to add that the lyrics to "The Eagle" have impressed me thus far. Granted, I haven't actually heard the song yet.

I looked around a little but it doesn't look like there's anywhere to listen to it freely.

However, it does sound a good deal like "The Unwelcome Savior," except the verses are more melodic, and the chorus sounds more epic (as does the song as a whole), so if you liked "The Unwelcome Savior" you should like it as well.

EDITED TO ADD: A band I forgot to mention that is worth checking out is Estatic Fear. They have a clean female vocalist who kind of reminds me of pixietricks (at least she was the first one to come to mind when I heard A Sombre Dance) and a male vocalist who sings mostly in a black metal rasp.

They play what is essentially symphonic doom metal with some folk and classical music infused for good measure. Beside the typical guitar/drum/bass, there is a lot of lute, flute, cello and piano as well.

Unless you absolutely despise the male vocalist or slower paced music in general, I see no reason why anyone could fail to like this band. Awesome stuff.

Bahamut
11-28-2007, 06:05 AM
Hm, I'll list a few of the bands/artists I've heard and that I'd recommend a look into who use female vocalists to a good degree:

Nightwish - the symphonic power metal/opera metal powerhouse of the metal world, they singlehandedly increased the popularity of female fronted metal bands. Currently they feature a non-classically trained singer, although she's competent as well

Within Temptation - the symphonic goth metal band. Although their lyrics have gone downhill, their Mother Earth album still remains a great album

After Forever - another symphonic goth metal band, they go for a more atmospheric effect compared to the two aforementioned bands. Might not be everyone's cup of tea, but they're definitely not bad at all.

Ayreon - the incredible project of the multitalented Arjen Lucasson, each of his albums sport a good dosage of female vocals in them and definitely worth a listen to anyone looking for the best in rock opera/metal opera (the Human Equation album), or progressive rock/metal (the other albums).

SLyGeN
11-28-2007, 06:51 AM
I think you would enjoy some of Darzamat's older work.

Secret Garden: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ljKD2tsbjg
Onriad and In the Abyss of Forgotten Woods are also good examples.

Darzamat's newer work is much different, but is just as great.
The Burning Times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8xVEvQYNY0

And finally, I suggest Lacrimosa's Alleine zu Zweit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCkGWv679tE

The Legendary Zoltan
11-28-2007, 07:00 AM
TENSEI SAN! I'LL NEVER FORGIVE YOU! DO YOU HEAR ME?! NEVAAAAR! AAAAARRRRRGGGHH! Hahaha. I agree whole-heartedly with everyone who said Arch Enemy. Melodic, fast, heavy and highly technical to boot. I'm glad you checked it out. And I can't BELIEVE sotSS knew about Shadow! Amazing.

But I've got one that NOBODY's ever heard of. Their from Okinawa and they're called Tai'a. It means "Great Raven" (or "Big Crow" if you will) and it's got a great vocalist named Seika who writes all of her songs after her own experiences in love, of which she has MANY. It's all Japanese right now, but get this, they're working on an English Demo CD yo! I'll give you just one guess as to who's translating their songs. ^_^

It's metal, but it's got a lot of keyboard action going on as well which gives it a pop-like feel. There are lots of songs that I'd like to suggest, but for now you can check out a few at Youtube.

I really like Praise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2vmSpAcRFA&feature=related

And here's a sample of the song Prayer which is a favorite of mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7vX-j4fVlQ&feature=related

And if you've got a myspace account you can check them out here:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=1000388632

Legion303
11-28-2007, 08:10 AM
Arch Enemy.

I know 18 other people have mentioned them already. There's a good reason for that.

-steve

megadave
11-28-2007, 01:15 PM
Hey, so I was just thinking I have about no artists with female vocalists in my music collection (save for a few from here at OCR and a couple Tsunami Bomb songs).


I met Tsunami Bomb back when I was about 16 or 17. They kept bumming cigarettes off of me. That's back when they were on Hunter's (from AFI) label. They were a good band.

Well, if you're looking for an awesome power metal band, listen to Dark Moor. They have a guy singer now, but check out their older stuff, especially their best album, Gates of Oblivion. It's sublime power metal. Catchy, hard-hitting, and rarely cheesy. The singer, Elisa, has an amazing voice and range. Only a woman with that extra girth can sing like that.

My favorite female vocalist is Cyndi Lauper. I think it will remain that way for a long time.

danimal cannon
11-28-2007, 01:33 PM
You want Drain STH. They're like Alice in Chains made up of hot chicks from Sweden.

Drain STH myspace (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=33563442)

OA
11-28-2007, 03:21 PM
Everything Bahamut listed plus Lullacry, who is is basically Sentenced with a female singer.

anosou
11-28-2007, 03:41 PM
You want Drain STH. They're like Alice in Chains made up of hot chicks from Sweden.

Drain STH myspace (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=33563442)

Woo! Hot Chicks from Sweden!
I wonder how I could've missed 'em O.o After all I'm a HUUUUUUUGE Alice in Chains fan. I better go see 'em live sometime.

shikigami
11-28-2007, 03:54 PM
L7, Sleater Kinney

OA
11-28-2007, 04:47 PM
Woo! Hot Chicks from Sweden!
I wonder how I could've missed 'em O.o After all I'm a HUUUUUUUGE Alice in Chains fan. I better go see 'em live sometime.

Go for sure but bring earplugs.
Because, uh, concerts can be loud, you know..


<_<

>_>

Superhim
11-28-2007, 07:37 PM
I've got one word for you.

NIGHTWISH.

Remember Metallica's S&M Album? Mix that with dual vocalists. The guy's more metal, but the woman is amazing. In general, Nightwish is more melodic than Metallica.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=G-WPtVAAxUE Planet Hell
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qGf3APLWJM4 Wish I Had an Angel

anosou
11-28-2007, 08:35 PM
Go for sure but bring earplugs.
Because, uh, concerts can be loud, you know..


<_<

>_>

It's not like I never get out, even though one might easily get that impression :)

Gimgak
11-28-2007, 10:22 PM
If your looking for classic rock, there's Heart.

If your looking for Irish alternative rock you might wanna check out The Cranberries. Check out their song "Zombie".

Kidd Cabbage
11-28-2007, 11:18 PM
Holy shit, I just went to youtube and saw a vid of Arch Enemy. Jesus, if I'd heard that without a video and the knowledge the singer was a woman, I would have never believed it.


Her vocals are processed to hell and back. I've heard she uses pitch alteration on her voice, and although I'm not sure how true that is, I'm fairly certain she does.

Culturekoi
11-28-2007, 11:19 PM
MAN has there been a response to this question... I'm impressed, and a lot of these are great! I can't reply to everyone individually but I wanna let y'all know it's very appreciated, and I've been making an active effort to locate songs by many of these bands. A few quickie responses:

Aninymouse: Your list of artists was epic-cool and I plan to check out all of those that I haven't heard very soon. I appreciate the huge-tastic list!

All the people who've said Nightwish and Within Temptation (and the other Symphonic metal bands): As much as Symphonic has it's place (and it does!) it's not quite what I'm after, y'know what I mean? Not really into the, I guess.... Operatic-sounding singing. I've listened to the symphonic genre a few times (and even listened to several Within Temptation songs extensively after a friend recommended to me) and really, that kinda stuff always makes me think of Evanescence and, well, if you like that stuff, I'll bet you'd like Symphonic. But it's not really my thang. I appreciate it though, I do.

Danimal Cannon: I think I like them Drain STH from their description alone (Alice in Chains with hawt swedes? Do want!) I'll be sure I take a test-listen before I go out and buy every album of theirs I can locate, but it seems worth a shot (since I like me my Alice in Chains).

CHIPP: if I'm able to find Tai'a outside of youtube, they might become one of my new faves, but they are HELLA hard to locate, either free OR albums. Might just have to enjoy what I can find in vids. :/ At least for now. Thanks big time, though. Awesome stuff.

IBBIAZ: Hmm, ya really think? Maybe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubHOHi9Bzug I'm not sure if that vid could tell anything in particular since it's possible that kinda stuff could be processed too, so I dunno. Are you just basing that on your own hearing her or is it stated by some reliable source that she does?

Arch Enemy is still rocking ass, and many of the really good bands are tough to locate. Why is it that people just refuse to listen to good music and continue to plug their ears going "la la la CRAAAAAAAAAWLING"? Well, whatever, it's their loss for not actively seeking it...

Thanks again everybody :) My music folder is becoming larger and larger by the post!

danimal cannon
11-28-2007, 11:31 PM
Woo! Hot Chicks from Sweden!
I wonder how I could've missed 'em O.o After all I'm a HUUUUUUUGE Alice in Chains fan. I better go see 'em live sometime.

They're broken up.

Nobody has mentioned Nightwish have they? Oh wait they did in every post, even when the first post said he wasn't looking for Nightwish.

Aninymouse
11-28-2007, 11:39 PM
They're broken up.

Nobody has mentioned Nightwish have they? Oh wait they did in every post, even when the first post said he wasn't looking for Nightwish.

lol.

My reading comprehension in the wee hours tends to behave like Luigi's Green Missile... 12.5% of the time it spontaneously misfires :razz:

Glad some people liked a few of my suggestions, though. I wasn't sure what to expect since I was throwing out some artists who didn't really match what you asked for.

Wintermute
11-28-2007, 11:43 PM
...
To that end, check out the Finnish band, Nightwish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightwish). ...

And Angelus Laminarum wins the prize for first poster who didn't bother to read the original post and has fallen in line with all the other Nightwish fans in telling anyone looking for a female vocalist to check out Nightwish.

Great job, smile for the cameras.

Culturekoi
11-29-2007, 12:11 AM
Wintermute and Danimal, I appreciate the outrage on my behalf, really. But it's ok, just take a deep breath and remember- it's the internets, and serious business though they may be, well, it really doesn't matter.

But a note for anyone who posts from this point on:
No more Nightwish, PLZ.

There we go, this should alleviate further people who didn't care to comprehend the OP. Thank you again, everyone.

Oh, and Aninymouse, I don't know why I found it so funny, but I fuckin' rofl'd for a solid minute or two at the comment about the Luigi missile thing. Thank you for that, too.

danimal cannon
11-29-2007, 02:00 PM
no nightwish?

OA
11-29-2007, 02:07 PM
It's not like I never get out, even though one might easily get that impression :)

oh yeah, almost forgot, the other reason for earplugs is that they play(ed) really boring songs.



:-D


edit:
here's a band from like norway or someplace like that; they sound kinda like nightwish but no opera-y singing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTdhXxxWREo

Dhsu
11-29-2007, 04:33 PM
Haha, nice, OA. :D
All the people who've said Nightwish and Within Temptation (and the other Symphonic metal bands): As much as Symphonic has it's place (and it does!) it's not quite what I'm after, y'know what I mean? Not really into the, I guess.... Operatic-sounding singing. I've listened to the symphonic genre a few times (and even listened to several Within Temptation songs extensively after a friend recommended to me) and really, that kinda stuff always makes me think of Evanescence and, well, if you like that stuff, I'll bet you'd like Symphonic. But it's not really my thang. I appreciate it though, I do.
But that disqualifies 90% of Bahamut's playlist! :lol:

In all seriousness though, I recommend Tokyo Jihen. They're not strictly rock (and most definitely not metal), but I think you'd like them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipgDis2SBC8

I have to warn you though, this video is in no way representative of the band's style (trust me when I say it would be impossible to narrow them down to one or two genres). So if you liked it, check out their other stuff. If you didn't like it...check out their other stuff. :P

If after that you're feeling especially adventurous, you might consider looking at Shiina Ringo's solo work. It could be well worth it.

Rad McRadderson
11-29-2007, 04:36 PM
I suggest the band Sinergy. It's a power metal band with a female vocalist, also it has none other than Alexi Laiho on guitars, from Children of Bodom.

Bahamut
11-29-2007, 04:43 PM
But that disqualifies 90% of Bahamut's playlist! :lol:

Hm? Most music I listen to is far from symphonic. My very last recommendation is still good though, because despite that particular album being a rock/metal opera, the singing is not operatic by any means - the opera label describes how the music is structured.

Dhsu
11-29-2007, 04:50 PM
Hahahahaha.

<3

transientgrifter
11-29-2007, 06:12 PM
Her vocals are processed to hell and back. I've heard she uses pitch alteration on her voice, and although I'm not sure how true that is, I'm fairly certain she does.
I really don't think Gossow does. It's nearly impossible, I've heard, to process death vocals, so that's purely vocalist talent there.

Tensei
11-29-2007, 07:03 PM
I really don't think Gossow does. It's nearly impossible, I've heard, to process death vocals, so that's purely vocalist talent there.

Agreed, listen to her live voice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMGpcjzb67Q&feature=related) if you're a non-believer.

Edit: Or am I stupid for thinking you can't process your vocals to such a degree live?

Aninymouse
11-29-2007, 11:13 PM
Agreed, listen to her live voice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMGpcjzb67Q&feature=related) if you're a non-believer.

Edit: Or am I stupid for thinking you can't process your vocals to such a degree live?

Live vocals can get pretty processed (http://youtube.com/watch?v=oB0DZTlL9fw&feature=related), at times, I think. Even if that was the case in the instance of Arch Enemy, would that somehow cheapen the amazing quality of their music for you somehow? I love a lot of Timbaland and Daft Punk songs, you know, so I really have had to confront the whole "end product or process" debate. Personally, unless an artist is completely ripping somebody else off, their process doesn't really dictate how much I respect them as a general rule.

I mean, Mario Galaxy has some absolutely phenominal orchestrated music as far as video games go, but then you have Donkey Kong Country where they had to individually program each note in some goofy data format without midi. I love both soundtracks, but is one somehow worth more than another? Not to me, really.

SotSS
11-29-2007, 11:49 PM
I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes AE, but going by what I've read in some interviews/reviews, her voice was processed on the last few albums, but on Rise Of The Tyrant her voice is mostly untouched. You can definitely tell a difference between this album and their last two, but her vocals aren't really any worse, so I'd say that she has some real talent.

danimal cannon
11-30-2007, 12:06 AM
Agreed, listen to her live voice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMGpcjzb67Q&feature=related) if you're a non-believer.

Edit: Or am I stupid for thinking you can't process your vocals to such a degree live?

They pitchshift her vocals down live. Not sure how much. I have a friend who was on tour with them.

Rob Zombie uses an absolutely disgusting amount of vocal processing live.

yangfeili
11-30-2007, 12:33 AM
GO!GO!7188

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG4Kz3nXfto

Aninymouse
11-30-2007, 01:51 AM
"Grown-up Medicine," eh? I have to say... I was way more interested in the bass player in this one!

Tensei
11-30-2007, 10:04 PM
Very well, I stand corrected on Angela's vocals, and no, it doesn't make Arch Enemy any worse to me, that would be the same as saying they suck because they use distortion on their guitars to make them sound heavier, which would be pretty silly, ne?

Also, I remembered a totally cheesy all-female poprockband from Estonia ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7rBfGVJUTY). Don't like the music, but the girls are pretty hot :)

The Legendary Zoltan
11-30-2007, 11:01 PM
Also, I remembered a totally cheesy all-female poprockband from Estonia ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7rBfGVJUTY). Don't like the music, but the girls are pretty hot :)

DUDE! What the heck is this, Tensei?! This is the coolest thing EVER!!! Holy Crap!

The Legendary Zoltan
11-30-2007, 11:10 PM
YES!!!!

"Just go there and stay there. LIAR!"

OH OH OH OH

HELL YES! It doesn't get any better than THIS!

"The winds of change and the warlords are coming!" BABY!

starla
11-30-2007, 11:19 PM
Kidneythieves are pretty excellent, in a grungy dark sort of way.

Tracy Bonham is also one of my favorites. Also grunge, but not as dark.

The Legendary Zoltan
12-01-2007, 01:50 AM
I suggest the band Sinergy. It's a power metal band with a female vocalist, also it has none other than Alexi Laiho on guitars, from Children of Bodom.

Oh man! I totally forgot about Sinergy. Good form!

Flare4War
12-01-2007, 05:05 AM
This would be better termed classic rock, but if you're not familiar with Roxette they have a fantastic female vocalist. And a ton of good tracks.

In my opinion ever album they did was stocked with good tracks. There's more to them than the known-everywhere 'Lay a Whisper', and 'She's Got the Look'. Not that those aren't good songs, but they have a lot of other great songs.

Ren2
12-01-2007, 06:24 AM
:3 Awesome choices! X3 I myself rarely listen to screamo but umm... Kidney Thieves is a group with a female lead singer. They do rock and softer rock too. She doesn't do much screamo but.. eh.. I like it. :3 Give them a listen when you have time, here's one of my favs by them....

Glitter Girl http://youtube.com/watch?v=wC0q5cf0LMw

and Brakish by Kittie is pretty good too if you want some type of screamo but the lyrics are still understandable. ^^;

Azul v2
12-01-2007, 06:39 AM
I really don't see how people can like that heavy metal music. Listening to that "Arch Enemy" song made me want to punch her in the face. To each his own, I guess.

Um, so more geared towards rock, theres Heart - http://youtube.com/watch?v=GkctoGY_JPY - apparently that song is GH, then there's the best of the best - Fleetwood Mac - http://youtube.com/watch?v=mVuhWA8EVMo - but if you are more into that screaming garbage can gothic punk heavy metal then you wouldn't like any of what I am suggesting, or if you are more into modern rock, theres always Alanis Morissette, her early stuff (not newer) http://youtube.com/watch?v=hbxNybJ1k0o

danimal cannon
12-01-2007, 06:42 AM
:3 Awesome choices! X3 I myself rarely listen to screamo but umm... Kidney Thieves is a group with a female lead singer. They do rock and softer rock too. She doesn't do much screamo but.. eh.. I like it. :3 Give them a listen when you have time, here's one of my favs by them....

Glitter Girl http://youtube.com/watch?v=wC0q5cf0LMw

oh yeah I forgot about them, I love the kidneythieves, they too are broken up though.

The Legendary Zoltan
12-01-2007, 07:02 AM
I really don't see how people can like that heavy metal music. Listening to that "Arch Enemy" song made me want to punch her in the face. To each his own, I guess.

Um, so more geared towards rock, theres Heart - http://youtube.com/watch?v=GkctoGY_JPY - apparently that song is GH, then there's the best of the best - Fleetwood Mac - http://youtube.com/watch?v=mVuhWA8EVMo - but if you are more into that screaming garbage can gothic punk heavy metal then you wouldn't like any of what I am suggesting, or if you are more into modern rock, theres always Alanis Morissette, her early stuff (not newer) http://youtube.com/watch?v=hbxNybJ1k0o

I don't know man. Listening Alanis Morissette's Ironic makes me want to punch her in the face. Hahaha. It seems like anyone who likes rock ought to have at least a couple metal bands that they can like. Perhaps the death vocal type metal bands are just not for you. Have you ever listened to Blind Guardian? You might like something like Nightfall by them. I recommend that. One of the things that's supposed to be an appeal of Heavy Metal is the speed and technique of the guitars and drums. So lots of guitarists like metal. Rock has a lot of fast solos too, but then during the vocals the guitars usually back off and play chords. In metal the guitars sometimes continue to be the "main" part even when vocals are present. Arch Enemy songs are sometimes so.

Flare4War
12-01-2007, 08:50 AM
I don't consider metal to even be music. It's something else. Noise of some sort. The artists have no musical talent at all.

Just a morbid genre in my opinion.

Tensei
12-01-2007, 09:19 AM
I don't consider metal to even be music. It's something else. Noise of some sort. The artists have no musical talent at all.

Just a morbid genre in my opinion.

Don't start this here.

Fishy
12-01-2007, 09:40 AM
I don't consider metal to even be music. It's something else. Noise of some sort. The artists have no musical talent at all.

Just a morbid genre in my opinion.

lol, I love sweeping generalizations. All you had to do was put the word 'some' in between the words 'consider' and 'metal' and you could have gotten away with that statement.

Tensei
12-01-2007, 10:47 AM
Also, hiphop sucks because all they do is sample older songs and talk over it. No talent involved whatsoever.

Aninymouse
12-01-2007, 12:12 PM
Alanis Morissette's Ironic" used to make me hate her, too... but she really does have a lot of great songs. Remember Natalie Merchant? I love a lot of her songs, too. And since we kind of tripped into "90s alternative" mode, how can we not mention Ten Thousand Maniacs?! Love them. Cranberries, too.

danimal cannon
12-02-2007, 12:39 AM
I don't consider metal to even be music. It's something else. Noise of some sort. The artists have no musical talent at all.

Just a morbid genre in my opinion.
This guy is awesome.

Imagist
12-02-2007, 12:46 AM
guys metal sucks

and so does hiphop

also who cares about ska

vg music is the only good music!!

The Legendary Zoltan
12-02-2007, 12:48 AM
Alanis Morissette's Ironic" used to make me hate her, too... but she really does have a lot of great songs. Remember Natalie Merchant? I love a lot of her songs, too. And since we kind of tripped into "90s alternative" mode, how can we not mention Ten Thousand Maniacs?! Love them. Cranberries, too.

Hhahaha! Dude, after reading the names of all the bands you like, it's obvious that metal is just not for you. The type of person who genuinely likes metal AND those bands that you mentioned has got to be extrememly rare. Hahaha.

The Legendary Zoltan
12-02-2007, 12:52 AM
lol, I love sweeping generalizations. All you had to do was put the word 'some' in between the words 'consider' and 'metal' and you could have gotten away with that statement.

Yeah, I love those too. I wonder if anyone remembers the time that I said that all Americans are dishonest. Hahaha! That was a shining moment. Hahaha. Of course it's ok if I say that because I am American. It's like how only black people are allowed to call each other nigger. Although, after meeting Liontamer, I'm inclined to believe that sentiment is fading away now. Hahaha.

BlueMage
12-02-2007, 01:05 AM
Also, hiphop sucks because all they do is sample older songs and talk over it. No talent involved whatsoever.

This is actually true.

Dyne
12-02-2007, 01:08 AM
I don't consider metal to even be music. It's something else. Noise of some sort. The artists have no musical talent at all.

Just a morbid genre in my opinion.

Metal is music. It takes great skill to shred riff after riff. Listen to the dearly departed Dimebag Darrel, or Zakk Wylde. Calling metal noise is an invitation become the target of multiple flames.

You have a right to an opinion, but you really need to be more responsible with it. Also, saying that the artists in question have no musical talent implies that you've not sat down and read anything about the artists themselves. On top of that, you don't seem to want to even give it a chance.

You are such a n00b.

The Legendary Zoltan
12-02-2007, 01:16 AM
Hey hey everybody, come on now. Let's not n00b hate here.


. . .



. . .



HAAAAAAAHAHAHAAAAA! That was funny to me, at least.

BeleagueredandBeset
12-02-2007, 01:42 AM
guys metal sucks

and so does hiphop

also who cares about ska

vg music is the only good music!!

^That was poetic.


And, I know these are both probably too soft, but I rather like A Fine Frenzy (piano-indie-pop?) and Vedera (alternative? maybe? used to be called Veda). As you can tell, I suck with genres. And I'll second the Flyleaf thing, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urlBWBloWuE&feature=related

Bahamut
12-02-2007, 01:52 AM
I don't know man. Listening Alanis Morissette's Ironic makes me want to punch her in the face. Hahaha. It seems like anyone who likes rock ought to have at least a couple metal bands that they can like. Perhaps the death vocal type metal bands are just not for you. Have you ever listened to Blind Guardian? You might like something like Nightfall by them. I recommend that. One of the things that's supposed to be an appeal of Heavy Metal is the speed and technique of the guitars and drums. So lots of guitarists like metal. Rock has a lot of fast solos too, but then during the vocals the guitars usually back off and play chords. In metal the guitars sometimes continue to be the "main" part even when vocals are present. Arch Enemy songs are sometimes so.

Some areas of metal seem to stress clean vocals heavily, most notably heavy, progressive, and power metal, genres I have a particular love for because you can do more with clean vocals acceptably than without them (although I will listen to thrash & death metal on occasion). Power & progressive metal are more technical than the other genres, and focus on song concept more than what is found in most other genres across the board since metal fans have some of the most contentious standards for music in general out there.

To Azul though, better examples of metal IMO (at least, the generally more popular subgenres of metal) are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K0oqGu8Haw (Angra - Nova Era), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNNKoIEtjz0 (Kamelot - Memento Mori), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJVQP108eM4 (Dream Theater - Under a Glass Moon), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw77gNrwyr8 (Symphony X - The Odyssey; this is only largely the first 9 minutes of the song - the original song is ~24 minutes long, and unlike most that long, it is a memorable song).

MichaelTheCrow
12-02-2007, 03:21 AM
Ah yes Symphony X, I have a thing for long songs and they seem to do it well. Besides The Odyssey there is one of their older songs The Divine Wings Of Tragedy, it has a similar vibe to it. At about 4:10 it has a theme that reminds me of Secret Of Mana's forest music ;), I can really appreciate the talent and technical ability of this band.

As far as a female vocalist in a rock/metal band goes I'd recommend Stream Of Passion http://www.streamofpassion.com (http://www.streamofpassion.com/), I think they're a gothic,symphonic metal band. They're not so heavy but I find it very soothing :), they used to have a female lead guitarist Lori Linstruth, also Arjen A. Lucassen from Aveyond who has had many many guest vocalists (such as James LaBrie and Bruce Dickinson just to name a few ;) ).

As I can see there are quite a few people who are into Arch Enemy =D, I can say they are definitely not what some of you people call "noise", have you heard some of their melodic material? I can easily say that material like that isn't noise, rather tasteful stuff.

I've only joined up here recently but thanks to OCReMix I have came to experience/appreciate the many genres of music which I would have never of expected listening to :).

irriadin
12-02-2007, 03:39 AM
Here are some recommendations...

Within Temptation ~ Symphonic Metal
Lacuna Coil ~ Symphonic Metal, for the most part.
Krypteria ~ Symphonic Metal
Beautiful Sin ~ Power Metal
Edenbridge ~ Symphonic Metal with a lot of Neo-classical overtones
Xandria ~ Symphonic Metal / Rock
Evanesence
and of course, Nightwish, but you mentioned you've heard them already.

Inkubus Sukkubus (Pagan Rock) if you're... uh... feeling adventurous.

Dead Hex
12-02-2007, 03:44 AM
Jack off Jill is a great band, you should check them out. (Don't know if they were mentioned earlier.)

Flare4War
12-03-2007, 10:22 AM
lol, I love sweeping generalizations. All you had to do was put the word 'some' in between the words 'consider' and 'metal' and you could have gotten away with that statement.

Yeah, I was careful to leave that word out. I've ascertained that it all sucks. Unequivocally.

None of you get an opinion, cause if you like metal; it's dissolved your brain.

Go OCR!

MichaelTheCrow
12-03-2007, 10:49 AM
Gathered from what I have read, if you hate metal you hate it, some people seem to take it further to try and get their point across while lacking in diversity and open mindedness. But I'm not one to criticise other genres, I actually appreciate a lot of music but I do have my limits.

I'm glad the ReMixes have not been categorised, it has continued to help me develop a more open mind, hearing stuff I never thought I would have heard before (and appreciate ;)).

But if you people hate metal that's ok, of course it isn't for everybody and not for the faint of heart.

Bahamut
12-03-2007, 02:05 PM
Here are some recommendations...

Lacuna Coil ~ Symphonic Metal, a bit edgier than WT

Lacuna Coil is far from symphonic - they're a goth metal band, although from what I hear, their last album is terrible and moved away from metal & showed that they didn't really care about their music anymore.

Gathered from what I have read, if you hate metal you hate it, some people seem to take it further to try and get their point across while lacking in diversity and open mindedness.


Most people who hate metal are close minded, or they associate metal with just death & black metal and such, and know nothing about progressive & power metal.

Azul v2
12-03-2007, 06:27 PM
I'm not close minded. But I can say without a doubt that I hate anything like what I saw in that video - relentless, undiscerning screaming of the lungs as the main musical instrument that sounds like someone who has had a little too much drugs burping a song as loud as they possibly can.

If you can call it 'metal', I like some Devin Townsend stuff when he isn't screaming. And Black Sabbath, but I consider that classic rock more than metal.

If you are talking like Powerman 5000, I'd just consider that heavy rock. And no I don't listen to Powerman 5000.

irriadin
12-03-2007, 06:53 PM
Lacuna Coil is far from symphonic - they're a goth metal band, although from what I hear, their last album is terrible and moved away from metal & showed that they didn't really care about their music anymore.

Um. Goth metal is really a misnomer, as it's so similar to symphonic metal there is practically no difference. And their new album, while not as good as Comalies, is still very good. I knew I shouldn't have tried to classify the genres on each of my suggestions...

Flare4War
12-03-2007, 07:24 PM
I admit that I have a bias towards it, and even know why. I've been on the job site several times when some crazy kid covered in tattoos comes along and cranks is radio up as loud as it can go playing metal. People shrilling and screaming as hard as they can for hours coupled with pernicious guitar lines. Then they walk around the job holding their eyes really wide open like they've been doing ecstasy.

It was awful, and it isn't music. It was sonic know doubt, but it certainly isn't music. It felt like someone was splitting my head open. I've never heard any metal that I liked. Maybe metal makes people too open minded, almost like; so open someone reached in and snatched part of their brain.

To counter, let me say this: When it comes to music I don't think anyone who enjoys music from OCR should be deemed close minded.

irriadin
12-03-2007, 07:37 PM
I admit that I have a bias towards it, and even know why. I've been on the job site several times when some crazy kid covered in tattoos comes along and cranks is radio up as loud as it can go playing metal. People shrilling and screaming as hard as they can for hours coupled with pernicious guitar lines. Then they walk around the job holding their eyes really wide open like they've been doing ecstasy.

It was awful, and it isn't music. It was sonic know doubt, but it certainly isn't music. It felt like someone was splitting my head open. I've never heard any metal that I liked. Maybe metal makes people too open minded, almost like; so open someone reached in and snatched part of their brain.

Not all metal is like that. What you're describing sounds like hardcore or death metal.

This is considered metal - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAKf1gTx7qM

and this as well - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGszdHVb2UY *

* extremely cheesy video but it makes me smile :)

danimal cannon
12-03-2007, 07:37 PM
To counter, let me say this: When it comes to music I don't think anyone who enjoys music from OCR should be deemed close minded.
What about the people who submit metal music to OCR?

I'm just gonna say you don't know what you're talking about. Also, since you're the furthest thing from an authority on the subject, your opinions are void and baseless.

Carry on.

Flare4War
12-03-2007, 08:23 PM
Not all metal is like that. What you're describing sounds like hardcore or death metal.

This is considered metal - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAKf1gTx7qM

and this as well - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGszdHVb2UY *

* extremely cheesy video but it makes me smile :)


If that is truly metal then I would have to stand corrected.

Incidentally my older brother really enjoys both of those artists. And they don't bother me either, though neither of those songs would ever end up on my mp3 player. I've never considered that to be metal.

I've voiced my opinion. Ok, I'll shut up now.

Flare4War
12-03-2007, 08:25 PM
What about the people who submit metal music to OCR?

What about them? That doesn't make anything I said null.

Bahamut
12-03-2007, 08:31 PM
To Azul though, better examples of metal IMO (at least, the generally more popular subgenres of metal) are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K0oqGu8Haw (Angra - Nova Era), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNNKoIEtjz0 (Kamelot - Memento Mori), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJVQP108eM4 (Dream Theater - Under a Glass Moon), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw77gNrwyr8 (Symphony X - The Odyssey; this is only largely the first 9 minutes of the song - the original song is ~24 minutes long, and unlike most that long, it is a memorable song).


Just to requote to show some of the diversity found in metal that some seemed to miss.

Um. Goth metal is really a misnomer, as it's so similar to symphonic metal there is practically no difference. And their new album, while not as good as Comalies, is still very good. I knew I shouldn't have tried to classify the genres on each of my suggestions...

No, there is no such thing as symphonic metal - symphonic is a particular classification within subgenres, but it isn't a subgenre in itself. Gothic metal refers to the gothic sound that these bands try to recreate, although the genre has changed much since then. For an example of a band that isn't symphonic but that most certainly fits the gothic metal genre, one is Paradise Lost, or if I remember right, Moonspell. Or The Gathering (a goth metal band that uses female vocals and is another suggestion most seemed to have missed).

irriadin
12-03-2007, 08:39 PM
No, there is no such thing as symphonic metal - symphonic is a particular classification within subgenres, but it isn't a subgenre in itself. Gothic metal refers to the gothic sound that these bands try to recreate. For an example of a band that isn't symphonic but that most certainly fits the gothic metal genre, one is Paradise Lost, or if I remember right, Moonsorrow.

Moonsorrow is technically classified as viking metal, but has deep roots in folk metal and pagan metal as well. Not goth metal at all.

And I disagree about symphonic metal being solely a classification within subgenres; while it definitely is a classification as you said, it is also a genre of metal in its own right.

Bahamut
12-03-2007, 08:45 PM
Moonsorrow is technically classified as viking metal, but has deep roots in folk metal and pagan metal as well. Not goth metal at all.

And I disagree about symphonic metal being solely a classification within subgenres; while it definitely is a classification as you said, it is also a genre of metal in its own right.

I made a mistake - I meant Moonspell. But goth metal got its start from Paradise Lost, and that band is far from symphonic. In addition, "symphonic metal" makes no sense as a genre. For example, take Within Temptation & Rhapsody - those bands are considered symphonic goth metal & symphonic power metal, respectively, but the structure of the songs that each make are far different, with Within Temptation has a strong focus on the gothic elements, while Rhapsody makes extensive use of elements in its songwriting that would definitively make it fall under power metal. The symphonic label is far too broad with no real good definition as a subgenre - there's no credibility to labeling a band just that, because the symphonic label does not give any definition to the style of music, which genre definitions are supposed to do.

kupernikus
12-03-2007, 08:47 PM
I admit that I have a bias towards it,

Your opinion on the matter died there. Also, not all metal is just screaming, then again After reading your post I have to wonder what you do consider music? Are you one of those kids constantly extolling the virtues of all things asian to his friends? COnstantly yammering on and on about J-pop? Do you listen to the recycled and often low talent american pop? Rap? or are you one of those people who insists that only music written by the old masters of the classical age to be music? Are you that guy who only listens to techno? Your obviously not the kid who worships avenged sevenfold and does nothing but talk about how they(or anyother similar band) are better then everything...

MichaelTheCrow
12-03-2007, 08:52 PM
There are so many genres and subgenres it makes my head spin, which then causes a lot of debate with what genre a band really is. One band for example could be a mixture of Punk, Hardcore and J-pop, for artists with a different sound or those who cover a wide variety of genres shouldn't be called like 50 different genres but instead their main genre and the label "experimental" or "variety", but maybe thats a bit off the point here.

Well thats all I really have to say on the matter of genres, they're good but sometimes utterly confusing =P.

Aninymouse
12-03-2007, 09:09 PM
The concept of musical genres nowadays are truely meaningless once you try to move past the idea of "let's compare one band to another."

Take, for instance, Boards of Canada. Hit up Wikipedia and it will tell you that they are classified as an "Intelligent Dance Music" (IDM) band, but does this really say anything about the music they make? You'd think it would imply that lots of dancing goes on, but if a lot of their music sounds like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO6i9YPtEd8) I'd imagine there's not as much of that as the uninformed might postulate.

Their music is slow, meandering, and sample/synth driven with lots of effecks and distortion... and the occasional drum machine or electric guitar to break up the less indulgent pieces. Obviously since they only use random sampled voices they don't belong specifically in this thread, but I thought it would help illustrate my point: classifying music is not only chaos, but also silly in a realistic sense, since so much of the criteria can be swayed by personal taste and opinion.

So, yes.

Bahamut
12-03-2007, 09:12 PM
The concept of musical genres nowadays are truely meaningless once you try to move past the idea of "let's compare one band to another."

Take, for instance, Boards of Canada. Hit up Wikipedia and it will tell you that they are classified as an "Intelligent Dance Music" (IDM) band, but does this really say anything about the music they make? You'd think it would imply that lots of dancing goes on, but if a lot of their music sounds like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO6i9YPtEd8) I'd imagine there's not as much of that as the uninformed might postulate.

Their music is slow, meandering, and sample/synth driven with lots of effecks and distortion... and the occasional drum machine or electric guitar to break up the less indulgent pieces. Obviously since they only use random sampled voices they don't belong specifically in this thread, but I thought it would help illustrate my point: classifying music is not only chaos, but also silly in a realistic sense, since so much of the criteria can be swayed by personal taste and opinion.

So, yes.

I agree, classification is mainly just for the purpose of identifying the main styles played, and have little to no bearing on how good the music they make is. Wikipedia is one of the worst offenders at poor genre classification though - just reading their article on alternative rock should quickly convince anyone of how poorly written they are.

irriadin
12-03-2007, 09:30 PM
I agree, classification is mainly just for the purpose of identifying the main styles played, and have little to no bearing on how good the music they make is. Wikipedia is one of the worst offenders at poor genre classification though - just reading their article on alternative rock should quickly convince anyone of how poorly written they are.

Have to agree with you there. Wikipedia can be quite amusing at times.

Another party contributing to the genre-confusion are the bands themselves. For the most part, many bands out there consider themselves the first in a new genre; Machinae Supremacy, for example, classifies their music as "SID-Metal." But in reality, their music is a power metal hybrid along with the occasional nod to goa / psy trance elements.

Flare4War
12-03-2007, 09:31 PM
Your opinion on the matter died there. Also, not all metal is just screaming, then again After reading your post I have to wonder what you do consider music? Are you one of those kids constantly extolling the virtues of all things asian to his friends? COnstantly yammering on and on about J-pop? Do you listen to the recycled and often low talent american pop? Rap? or are you one of those people who insists that only music written by the old masters of the classical age to be music? Are you that guy who only listens to techno? Your obviously not the kid who worships avenged sevenfold and does nothing but talk about how they(or anyother similar band) are better then everything...

The good kind.

No.

No.

No.

No. Rap sucks in my eyes.

Yes.

No.

That's correct, I'm not that kid.

Codycrusader
12-03-2007, 09:32 PM
There's a really metal'd out band called OTEP, not sure if that's how you spell it, but that lady got some good vocals goin around in her throat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfLnDUPmP4s <--- that's one of her songs

SotSS
12-03-2007, 09:57 PM
Check out some of these bands and then come back and tell me it's all just noise:

Sepia Dreamer (http://www.myspace.com/sepiadreamer)

Scale the Summit (http://www.myspace.com/scalethesummit)

Alcest (http://www.myspace.com/alcestmusic)

Agalloch (http://www.myspace.com/agalloch)

Be'lakor (http://www.myspace.com/belakor)

Orphaned Land (http://www.myspace.com/orphanedmyspace)

Slumber (http://www.myspace.com/slumberband)

Estatic Fear (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/Estatic%20Fear%20%28http://www.myspace.com/estaticfearaustria%29)

Daylight Dies (http://www.myspace.com/daylightdies)

Of course there are countless more bands (Opeth, Insomnium, Garden of Shadows, Hanging Garden, Ne Obliviscaris, plus a million more) from a variety of different genres of metal who's music could not be described by any rational person as simply noise, and these are (mostly) bands who have harsh death/black vocalists as the only/primary form of vocals. Throw in genres with plenty of clear vocals (like power and symphonic metal, both of which have already been mentioned a billion times) and you'll quickly find that metal is full of stuff that goes well beyond the angry, brutal, blood-and-guts, kill everyone while giving praise to Satan stuff that most people think of when they think of metal.

Of course, none of this means that you have to like it, but it does mean that you'll look foolish to those who know better when you disregard an entire, highly-diversified genre of music as simply non-musical noise.

------------------------------

And now on a more revelent to this thread note, good find with Otep Codycrusader. I had heard of the band before, but I have never actually heard anything by them, and I didn't know they had a female vocalist either.

Tensei
12-03-2007, 10:01 PM
There's a really metal'd out band called OTEP, not sure if that's how you spell it, but that lady got some good vocals goin around in her throat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfLnDUPmP4s <--- that's one of her songs

This is awesome, thank you. This one will go straight to my MP3. :P (and possibly into my CD-collection if I can get a hold of it and their other songs are as cool as this too)

SotSS
12-03-2007, 10:14 PM
The symphonic label is far too broad with no real good definition as a subgenre - there's no credibility to labeling a band just that, because the symphonic label does not give any definition to the style of music, which genre definitions are supposed to do.

I never really thought too hard about it, but this makes sense to me. Thinking about all of the different bands with symphonic elements, I notice that there is a lot of diversity between them. For instance, Estatic Fear, Skyfire (Mind Revolution in particular) and Nightwish have a lot of notable differences between them, yet all of them have enough symphonic elements to warrant the "symphonic metal" label.

However, none of those bands are strait up "symphonic metal," as they are all part something else as well (doom, black, goth, power, what have you) and I can't really think of any band that is entirely "symphonic metal" and not "symphonic power metal" or "symphonic doom metal" or what have you. I think that "symphonic" is better off being a term that indicates a bands usage of symphonic elements to go along with whatever genre of metal they are playing, rather than being a genre in and of itself.

Codycrusader
12-03-2007, 10:47 PM
This is awesome, thank you. This one will go straight to my MP3. :P (and possibly into my CD-collection if I can get a hold of it and their other songs are as cool as this too)
You're welcome man

Dhsu
12-03-2007, 11:07 PM
This is awesome, thank you. This one will go straight to my MP3. :P (and possibly into my CD-collection if I can get a hold of it and their other songs are as cool as this too)
You're welcome bro

Genius Pants
12-03-2007, 11:10 PM
Aninymouse, thanks for introducing me to The Birthday Massacre. I'm a little upset with myself for not having heard of them before now, especially since I live near their original hometown.:oops:

Anyways, continue with whatever the hell you guys are discussing now.

irriadin
12-04-2007, 01:04 AM
I never really thought too hard about it, but this makes sense to me. Thinking about all of the different bands with symphonic elements, I notice that there is a lot of diversity between them. For instance, Estatic Fear, Skyfire (Mind Revolution in particular) and Nightwish have a lot of notable differences between them, yet all of them have enough symphonic elements to warrant the "symphonic metal" label.

However, none of those bands are strait up "symphonic metal," as they are all part something else as well (doom, black, goth, power, what have you) and I can't really think of any band that is entirely "symphonic metal" and not "symphonic power metal" or "symphonic doom metal" or what have you. I think that "symphonic" is better off being a term that indicates a bands usage of symphonic elements to go along with whatever genre of metal they are playing, rather than being a genre in and of itself.

that's an element of using symphonic metal as a subgenre distinction, but there are a few bands that I'd classify as Symphonic Metal and not Gothic Metal. Within Temptation, namely. While I'm loathe to quote wikipedia, I actually believe the information is fairly accurate. And is there an authority that classifies musical genres? Doubtful.

A softer genre known as symphonic metal had evolved in the mid- to late- 1990s from gothic metal bearing strong similarities to its predecessor, with bands led by female singers including Within Temptation, Nightwish, and Epica. During this time the divide between gothic metal and the new-born symphonic metal became apparent; symphonic metal maintained a lighter approach, with more operatic and classical themes that often showed power metal influence, while gothic metal incorporated more aggressive elements of death metal and black metal directly into the music.

Codycrusader
12-04-2007, 01:09 AM
You're welcome bro
Lol, I just realized i posted two different comments, my comp. was lagging on the first one and I thought it didnt send, and i didn't bother to check

Bahamut
12-04-2007, 05:24 AM
that's an element of using symphonic metal as a subgenre distinction, but there are a few bands that I'd classify as Symphonic Metal and not Gothic Metal. Within Temptation, namely. While I'm loathe to quote wikipedia, I actually believe the information is fairly accurate. And is there an authority that classifies musical genres? Doubtful.

As I said, Wikipedia is one of the worst offenders in genre definitions - they often get classifications flat out wrong, and sometimes they don't even define them at all, which is inexcusable. As far as metal subgenres is concerned, Metal Archives (http://www.metal-archives.com) almost always gets it right.

SotSS
12-04-2007, 05:35 AM
I guess a lot of this depends on how we determine whether or not a newly added element (such as an additional instrument) changes a song enough to warrant it being placed in its own distinct genre/sub-genre.

How many new elements must be added, and/or to what degree must those new element(s) be integrated with the music in order for the music to be classified as it's own distinct genre/sub-genre? Unfortunately, trying to tell when the change(s) is (are) enough in number and/or degree to warrant the creation of a new, distinct genre/sub-genre is kind of like trying to determine when a heap of sand can no longer be considered a heap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox).

I guess you could try to remove the element(s) in question and ask if what remains is all that different, at it's core, from the music in which it finds it's origins. For example, remove the symphonic elements of Within Temptation and ask if whats left can be easily classified within the same genre as the other bands/music that their work is ultimately based off of.

If so, this would be a good sign that the creation of a new sub-genre is probably unnecessary and unwarranted, as the symphonic elements are merely ad-hoc additions to an already existent genre. However, if we remove their symphonic elements and find out that the remaining music is structurally discernible from the music it originates from, this would be a good sign that these elements have been integrated into their music to such a degree that it has altered one or more of the basic, defining aspects of their metaphorical "parents" in a meaningful way, and thus it probably deserves to be placed in it's own distinct category.

This, however, begs the question of whether or not the elements in question even need to alter the core defining aspects of it's parents in order to be given it's own distinct classification. However, if we assume that the ad-hoc addition of one or more elements to an already predefined genre is enough in and of itself to warrant the creation of a new, distinct sub-genre, then we really haven't gotten anywhere, as new questions such as "How many ad-hoc additions are needed?" and "What property(-ies) must these additional elements possess in order for the creation of a new sub-genre to be warranted?" inevitably arise, which just makes things more confusing.

As what constitutes a "meaningful alteration" to the music in question is ultimately unknown to me, in part due to my overall lack of knowledge of music theory, as well as my lack of knowledge of some of the "defining aspects" of Within Temptation's musical parents, it's hard for me to really determine if they and their peers deserve their own sub-genre, which means that I should probably stay out of this discussion (if this long ass post hasn't ended the conversation already :nicework:).

Scars Unseen
12-04-2007, 06:30 AM
I guess a lot of this depends on how we determine whether or not a newly added element (such as an additional instrument) changes a song enough to warrant it being placed in its own distinct genre/sub-genre.

How many new elements must be added, and/or to what degree must those new element(s) be integrated with the music in order for the music to be classified as it's own distinct genre/sub-genre? Unfortunately, trying to tell when the change(s) is (are) enough in number and/or degree to warrant the creation of a new, distinct genre/sub-genre is kind of like trying to determine when a heap of sand can no longer be considered a heap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox).

I guess you could try to remove the element(s) in question and ask if what remains is all that different, at it's core, from the music in which it finds it's origins. For example, remove the symphonic elements of Within Temptation and ask if whats left can be easily classified within the same genre as the other bands/music that their work is ultimately based off of.

If so, this would be a good sign that the creation of a new sub-genre is probably unnecessary and unwarranted, as the symphonic elements are merely ad-hoc additions to an already existent genre. However, if we remove their symphonic elements and find out that the remaining music is structurally discernible from the music it originates from, this would be a good sign that these elements have been integrated into their music to such a degree that it has altered one or more of the basic, defining aspects of their metaphorical "parents" in a meaningful way, and thus it probably deserves to be placed in it's own distinct category.

This, however, begs the question of whether or not the elements in question even need to alter the core defining aspects of it's parents in order to be given it's own distinct classification. However, if we assume that the ad-hoc addition of one or more elements to an already predefined genre is enough in and of itself to warrant the creation of a new, distinct sub-genre, then we really haven't gotten anywhere, as new questions such as "How many ad-hoc additions are needed?" and "What property(-ies) must these additional elements possess in order for the creation of a new sub-genre to be warranted?" inevitably arise, which just makes things more confusing.

As what constitutes a "meaningful alteration" to the music in question is ultimately unknown to me, in part due to my overall lack of knowledge of music theory, as well as my lack of knowledge of some of the "defining aspects" of Within Temptation's musical parents, it's hard for me to really determine if they and their peers deserve their own sub-genre, which means that I should probably stay out of this discussion (if this long ass post hasn't ended the conversation already :nicework:).

IMO, if you can remove the element or instrument and still have something that sounds like a listenable song, then that element or instrument wasn't truly part of the song in the first place and was just slapped on to give the same genre slightly different feel. After all, is Metallica a symphonic metal band because an orchestra backed them in S&M? On the other hand, if, upon removing an element or instrument, you are left with something that can no longer rightly be called a song at all, that element was an integral part of the music and helped to define what it was.

Example: Symphony X. While some of their songs are flat out power metal, in many songs the guitar and keys are written in such a fashion that they add to the orchestral parts more than the other way around. If you were to remove the orchestral instruments from the songs you would wind up with something somewhat bizzare sounding.

The Legendary Zoltan
12-04-2007, 07:59 AM
IMO, if you can remove the element or instrument and still have something that sounds like a listenable song, then that element or instrument wasn't truly part of the song in the first place and was just slapped on to give the same genre slightly different feel. After all, is Metallica a symphonic metal band because an orchestra backed them in S&M? On the other hand, if, upon removing an element or instrument, you are left with something that can no longer rightly be called a song at all, that element was an integral part of the music and helped to define what it was.

Example: Symphony X. While some of their songs are flat out power metal, in many songs the guitar and keys are written in such a fashion that they add to the orchestral parts more than the other way around. If you were to remove the orchestral instruments from the songs you would wind up with something somewhat bizzare sounding.

That's an interesting take on it. I think SotSS nailed it when he said that it depends on what constitutes a song to be considered a different genre. I found myself thinking about Dimmu Borgir when pondering this topic. They've got tons of orchestral parts in their songs sometimes but they aren't referred to as Symphonic, but Black Metal (right?). But I don't see why we would argue that something being symphonic doesn't make it another sub-genre. Since the word genre is just a fancy word for classification. Simply adding "Symphonic" to something or completely changing the genre are both just acts of classifying. So we might as well just consider Black Metal and Symphonic Black Metal as two different things.

Of course, there's always the degree of orchestra used in the song to consider. GOD I hate dealing with genres. hahaha.

yangfeili
12-04-2007, 08:45 AM
I already mentioned Go!Go!7188 earlier... but I'll do it again because I just found this song I hadn't heard before, and it's totally awesome.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dgkJg2XHPqg&feature=related

The Legendary Zoltan
12-04-2007, 09:09 AM
I already mentioned Go!Go!7188 earlier... but I'll do it again because I just found this song I hadn't heard before, and it's totally awesome.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dgkJg2XHPqg&feature=related

Way to keep it on topic. hahaha. I personally don't get much out of GO!GO!7188 but I DID happen to notice their signature hanging on a wall in an izakaya when I lived in Okinawa. I felt cool. haaha.

kupernikus
12-04-2007, 05:07 PM
The good kind.

No.

No.

No.

No. Rap sucks in my eyes.

Yes.

No.

That's correct, I'm not that kid.
I dunno, you answered yes to one of those, so you are one of those kids...

Scars Unseen
12-06-2007, 05:01 AM
by the way, has anyone mentioned After Forever yet? They have some samples up on myspace (www.myspace.com/afterforeveronline ). Awesome band.