Sweeney Todd Film

[chrono26]

If there is an existing thread about this then i apologize. with that said, has anyone seen the Sweeney Todd film yet? i highly recommend it. I think its one the most amazing movies i've seen in a whlie. I've never seen the stage version live but i caught some videos of the 1980s production and i have to say that burton really captured the spirit of the entire musical. the cuts that were made were didnt dumb down the story or the music and the few addtions made some scenes better than they ever could've been on stage. "A little Priest" and "By The Sea" particularly were amazing in terms of what film can add and what you cant do on stage. Depp was pretty impressive in terms of voice and acting and there was A LOT of blood. need i say more? What does everyone else think about the film?

[FlagshipAmadeus]

I found it to be quite excellent as well and will probably get the DVD eventually. A particularly well done portrayal of an anti-villain.

[Dyne]

I've seen it. The film itself was quite truly amazing. The fact that Johnny Depp, Alan Rickman and Helena Bonham-Carter can sing as well as they do also enhances it. I have the soundtrack on my iPod, and I love it. My favorites though are "My Friends" and "Epiphany".

[Alexis]

I never saw the stage play either, and before I saw it, all I knew about it was that it was a musical. I had no idea it was rated R or anything like that, so I was a little surprised with all the blood, but nonetheless it was a great movie-musical thing. Already have the soundtrack...it was kind of weird at first though, hearing Alan Rickman and Johnny Depp's voices on there, but I got used to it. I love Johnny's voice in my friends...I had no idea he could sing like that.

[MechaFone]

That movie was amazing, and in some ways, liberating. I've had a lot of anger and feelings of vengance burning in my heart in my life. I went to see it last night with my wife, her sister and sister's boyfriend. My wife tells me that I had this frightening look in my eyes after the movie. Liberating, it was.
And hey, who knew that that Johnny and even Alan could sing like that? The overall production was superb. Burton made his best movie ever, imo, and what an experience it was.

[Theory of N]

Oh man, I saw this movie three times the week it came out. It's incredible. My favorite song is by far "My Friends". The duet is beautiful and the fact that Johnny Depp can sound like that with absolutely no voice training is awesome. I love the Sasha Cohen cameo and the "Pirelli's Miracle Elixer" song. Some of the little things that are thrown into the songs are genius. I definitely suggest it and I listen to the soundtrack way too much.

[The Damned]

http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/44218

[Jillian Aversa]

Yay, I get to be the first hater! ^_~

Okay, so here's the thing. I thought Tim Burton did an amazing job with the art direction. There are things you can do in film that are simply not possible on a stage, and he definitely capitalized on that. The cool colors were a chilling contrast to all the red, if you know what I mean.

That being said, I was very disappointed with some other aspects. I probably have pretty high standards considering I actually played Johanna in a production of the musical, but there were so many cuts that bothered me. Anthony and Johanna's parts were reduced to practically nothing, whereas in the show their presence is really integral. Toby's monologue at the end was completely removed, and I think that really took away from the main message that the story is supposed to convey in the first place; it's a cautionary tale. Burton didn't even show the cycle continuing.

Then there was the voices themselves. Helena Bonham Carter was a TERRIBLE Mrs. Lovett. She has the most thin, pathetic voice and I could hear blatant auto-tuning in half her stuff. Anthony sounded whiney, Johanna was a mouse on steroids with that awful vibrato, and Depp and Rickman were just decent. The only person I think was vocally worthy of their role in this film was Ed Sanders as Toby.

Just my two cents. :p

[CHIPP Damage]

I worked on a live theatre production of this show as well. Haven't seen the movie yet, but since I don't do well with blood, I think I'll pass. Also, I was such a hardcore Jack Sparrow fan that I feel like I don't really need to see another Johnny Depp movie.

[Effef]

Music was decent, not worth watching again in the theater though. Definitely gets points for production values. As Pixie said, the original message of the play was somewhat lost.

Worth a DVD.

[Bleck]

As Pixie said, the original message of the play was somewhat lost.

What was that message

[The Damned]

That revenge is a dish best served as a meat pie.

[chrono26]

What was that message


that revenge is bad. it consumes you and you become obsessed and you die. just like todd. the message is most definitely there.

[Bleck]

I'm pretty sure that's the message sent by the movie

[Jillian Aversa]

There's a little more to it than that. It's not just that revenge is bad, consumes you, and you die. The musical is a social commentary on the nature of the justice system for one thing, and that the movie did keep in tact. But it's also supposed to show you how easily anyone could be drawn into the vicious cycle. Without...
a) The chorus opening the show with their whole number (look up the lyrics)
b) Anthony and Johanna's innocent love to keep things at bay, and
c) Toby's ending monologue
...the message is lost.

[Azul v2]

If you liked the songs, check out Steven Sondheim's other stuff. Hes an amazing songwriter. I worked on his tribute play "Side by Side by Sondheim", as a spotlight operator 7 or 8 years ago, and I still love all those songs today. Side by Side takes a few songs from each of his plays, and includes "Pretty Women" from Sweeney Todd.

[Red Shadow]

I worked on a live theatre production of this show as well. Haven't seen the movie yet, but since I don't do well with blood, I think I'll pass. Also, I was such a hardcore Jack Sparrow fan that I feel like I don't really need to see another Johnny Depp movie.
The blood is very much cartoon like in nature. One of the most basic things that I took away from watching it was how this movie actually managed to make murder hilarious.

[chumble spuzz]

I am not a fan of Tim Burton's art direction. I went in to Sweeney Todd indifferent, and I left...irritated. I think Burton's "signature style" has become his own stereotype, which I can define in three words: eyeshadow, stripes, anorexia. Not so much the anorexia in Sweeney Todd, but if you've seen Corpse Bride, you know what I mean. Even comparing the two, Sweeney Todd looks pretty much exactly like Victor Van Dort: gaunt, pale, black hair, black clothes. (They even have the same voice!) I felt like the wardrobe came straight from Hot Topic (shudder). Granted, Burton's character design is varied and interesting to look at (mostly), but there's only so much "dark and gloomy" I can take before I start wanting to look at a color wheel to remind myself that light is broken down into MULTIPLE colors. (So much of Sweeney Todd reminded me of bad deviantart, Ms. Lovett's silhouete, particularly.) Thank goodness Burton at least touched on the basics (red, blue, yellow) in Sweeney. But still, the theater lobby looked so lush when I left...

Aw jeez, I bet that's the point. :(

DUMB.


Edit: Oh, and the music: forgettable, except that song what's-his-girly-face sings about "Johaaaaaaaaannaaaaaaaa, I feeeeeeeeeeeel yoooooouuuuuuu..." Pretty melody, dumb lyrics (not Burton's fault, I presume, but it didn't help). The kid who played Toby stole the show with his incredible singing.

[Guy In Rubber Suit]

I was not a fan of the movie. Then again I do despise musicals outside of Simpsons, Futurama and South Park. I feel they serve absolutely not purpose other than to irritate.

The art direction was decent but extremely typical of Burton, whom I find overrated, and I did enjoy some of the humor. Either way I movie that I will forget about and not bother picking up ever.

[Bleck]

Why should we care what a guy who hates musicals and Tim Burton thinks about the new Tim Burton musical

[I-n-j-i-n]

The art direction was decent but extremely typical of Burton, whom I find overrated, and I did enjoy some of the humor. Either way I movie that I will forget about and not bother picking up ever.

Did you say overrated? I thought I heard overrated, because most of Burton's works never seems to get the due respect until 5 or 10 years down the line as it did with the Batman movies (everybody, EVERYBODY missed Burton after the Schumacher disasters. Actually, I still miss the Burton touch after the ho hum Batman Begins). And everybody thought Pee Wee and Scissorhands were pop culture trash until they saw more to it. 10 years later.

I do think Tim Burton puts himself in a spot with the constant gothic looks for almost all his movies, but I do think his skills as a storyteller goes unnoticed. And maybe not all his movies needs to have Johnny Depp, as fantastic as he typically is.

[Wintermute]

Pixietricks, while your comments on their voices may be accurate, I do not think that the message is lost in the film. The message may be slightly watered down by the lack of the clarifying details, but at the same time I think it is perhaps even more directly powerful in the movie. Nobody that I knew that went and saw Sweeney Todd thought that living for revenge was a good idea afterward, every one of them got the most visceral and primal meaning behind the film quite clearly.

But yeah, I didn't like Ms. Carter as Lovett... her voice just wasn't suited to the role.

[chrono26]

I am not a fan of Tim Burton's art direction. I went in to Sweeney Todd indifferent, and I left...irritated. I think Burton's "signature style" has become his own stereotype, which I can define in three words: eyeshadow, stripes, anorexia. Not so much the anorexia in Sweeney Todd, but if you've seen Corpse Bride, you know what I mean. Even comparing the two, Sweeney Todd looks pretty much exactly like Victor Van Dort: gaunt, pale, black hair, black clothes. (They even have the same voice!) I felt like the wardrobe came straight from Hot Topic (shudder). Granted, Burton's character design is varied and interesting to look at (mostly), but there's only so much "dark and gloomy" I can take before I start wanting to look at a color wheel to remind myself that light is broken down into MULTIPLE colors. (So much of Sweeney Todd reminded me of bad deviantart, Ms. Lovett's silhouete, particularly.) Thank goodness Burton at least touched on the basics (red, blue, yellow) in Sweeney. But still, the theater lobby looked so lush when I left...

Aw jeez, I bet that's the point. :(

DUMB.


Edit: Oh, and the music: forgettable, except that song what's-his-girly-face sings about "Johaaaaaaaaannaaaaaaaa, I feeeeeeeeeeeel yoooooouuuuuuu..." Pretty melody, dumb lyrics (not Burton's fault, I presume, but it didn't help). The kid who played Toby stole the show with his incredible singing.

ok, you talked about WARDROBE, not ART DIRECTION first of all. second, it's unfair to blame Tim Burton for all the paleness and gloom that you hate so much; Sweeney Todd is a pale man, go check out the play. A lot of the feel and look comes directly from the stage production. Thats probably why Tim Burton wanted to direct, because it's similar to his visual style. third, Sweeney Todd has some of the most MEMORABLE music ever. You probaly arnt a fan of musicals and there is nothing wrong with that. However, try to use some more "in my opinion" rather than just saying the music is forgettable with "dumb" lyrics.

[Azul v2]

Broadway-style musicals are an acquired taste, and I wouldn't doubt that video-game-playing teenagers in the 2000's probably won't like them or learn to like them either.

Sondheim is a seriously good songwriter, though.

[chumble spuzz]

ok, you talked about WARDROBE, not ART DIRECTION first of all. second, it's unfair to blame Tim Burton for all the paleness and gloom that you hate so much; Sweeney Todd is a pale man, go check out the play. A lot of the feel and look comes directly from the stage production. Thats probably why Tim Burton wanted to direct, because it's similar to his visual style. third, Sweeney Todd has some of the most MEMORABLE music ever. You probaly arnt a fan of musicals and there is nothing wrong with that. However, try to use some more "in my opinion" rather than just saying the music is forgettable with "dumb" lyrics.

No, I talked about art direction. That encompasses wardrobe, contrast (the paleness and gloominess brought about by both the makeup on the characters and the compression of the range of color values from black to white. Open any image in Photoshop and hit Ctrl-L), color palette, character design--all of which I touched on. Also, I have never seen the stage production, so all I had to go on was Burton's prior work.

As far as my stance on musicals in general, I was raised around Rogers and Hammerstein's works growing up (Cinderella, Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, The Sound of Music--which wasn't so bad, etc.), so that put anything if not a bad taste in my mouth; young boys do not often frolic in meadows singing about their feelings. The Sound of Music I say "wasn't so bad" because it had Nazis in it, who were dangerous, and danger is interesting. I have seen musicals I like. Cat's Don't Dance is one, but that may be because I love animation, and this particular musical has a very Looney-Tunes vibe to it (and Gene Kelly was a consultant for the animation choreography, which is awesome).

Also, isn't it clear that this is my opinion? I'm not a literary genius, but I try not to be obvious if I don't have to. I know what I like, and I didn't like the lyrics. By all means, disagree. :|

[chrono26]

By all means, disagree. :|

turn that frown upside down and we shall agree to disagree ;-)


and how bout that Best Film (Musical or Comedy) win at the Golden Globes. I'm sure Burton is happy about that one.

[Cyan_Ide]

If you disliked the pale/goth/stripe stuff, why did you go to the movie in the first place? "I think Burton's "signature style" has become his own stereotype" This is completely true, except that it is a STYLE. Tim Burton does the films that he does because the content matches what he does stylistically. It's how the industry works. Many artists and illustrators die without ever having sunk into a signature style that brings them success. Now, we go to Tim Burton films to see precisely the things that Tim Burton brings to the film. We EXPECT those things when we see his movies.

It's like going to a Pixar film and complaining about them doing 3D animation for it.

[Guy In Rubber Suit]

Why should we care what a guy who hates musicals and Tim Burton thinks about the new Tim Burton musical


Why should we care what you think?

[BardicKnowledge]

I agree with the vocal critiques that Pixie had earlier -- especially Helena Bonham Carter. I do wish that the Anthony/Johanna relationship was fleshed out more, but that would have required casting a girl that wasn't completely forgettable, and a better tenor for Anthony.

With that said, I think that Depp and Rickman both did extremely well. In any musical production, there are ultimately two kinds of players -- actors who can sing, and singers who can act. It's obvious that both of the aforementioned are actors first and foremost...but their singing was more than adequate alongside their acting to make the characters believable.

Overall, I think it's the best musical-movie rerelease for quite a while, and it's definitely worth a single viewing. If you enjoyed the movie editions of Phantom, Rent, or Hairspray, put this one on your list.

[chumble spuzz]

turn that frown upside down and we shall agree to disagree :wink:

and how bout that Best Film (Musical or Comedy) win at the Golden Globes. I'm sure Burton is happy about that one.

He better be, that no-talent hack! :P (OverBoard.) I'm actually more thrilled that Ratatouille won a Golden Globe for best animated feature. Although, I'll tell you that there wasn't much competition from Meet the Robinsons and Bee Movie. I keep hearing how good Persepolis is, but I have yet to see it...

If you disliked the pale/goth/stripe stuff, why did you go to the movie in the first place? "I think Burton's "signature style" has become his own stereotype" This is completely true, except that it is a STYLE. Tim Burton does the films that he does because the content matches what he does stylistically. It's how the industry works. Many artists and illustrators die without ever having sunk into a signature style that brings them success. Now, we go to Tim Burton films to see precisely the things that Tim Burton brings to the film. We EXPECT those things when we see his movies.

It's like going to a Pixar film and complaining about them doing 3D animation for it.

I went to Sweeney Todd because we (the folks I was movie-going with) had not yet seen it. It was a complex muddle of "I've seen it already." I would've preferred No Country for Old Men again, but certain of us had already seen it twice. :\

Also, it was the viewing of the movie that made me aware of Burton's self-stereotyping. As far as why Tim Burton makes the films that he makes, what you say may or may not be true, but I doubt that that's the way the industry works. A gifted filmmaker, like a gifted musician, will be able to create something worthwhile in any genre.

As far as your Pixar comparison goes, it's not quite accurate--3D animation isn't a "style," but a medium. Instead of actors, there are 3D models, rigged with all sorts of fancy controls and deformers, and you can have those models in any style you need, and have them act in any way that you need. It's largely the same as conventional film-making. One main difference is that the "actors" (digital puppeteers, if you will) are hired full-time over multiple projects, and they all sit at desks.

[chrono26]

Also, it was the viewing of the movie that made me aware of Burton's self-stereotyping. As far as why Tim Burton makes the films that he makes, what you say may or may not be true, but I doubt that that's the way the industry works. A gifted filmmaker, like a gifted musician, will be able to create something worthwhile in any genre.

That's true to a certain extent. Most musicians do specialize in a specific genre though. And not all of Burton's movies are in his "signature style". Ed Wodd and Big Fish among others have traces of his style but are way different in tone. Big Fish is more of a fantasy and what i think is his best film.

[chumble spuzz]

Yeah, it's cool to have "a genre to call home," I guess, but if you just stay home all the time, you're...this is going to sound retarded, but it means what I want to say: you're missing a whole world out there. Granted, Tim Burton hasn't consistently always done the pallid and gloomy thing, but in Sweeney Todd, there was just SO MUCH of it, and none of it felt at all inspired. A character's appearance should tell a story of the character's history, and all I saw was Hot Topic receipts. Or at least those were so obvious that I missed what might've been imaginative.

And on Big Fish, unfortunately, there are too many movies out there that I want to see that I haven't seen. Big Fish is one of them.