ASK A JUDGE: While we're busy NOT voting - your questions, we want 'em

[Liontamer]

As a means of supplementing my blog, VG Frequency (http://oc.ormgas.com/links.php?18), I'm throwing this thread out there for questions towards myself and the other judges. Any legit questions on our thoughts on arranging/judging/the community/music recommendations/site stuff, I'm willing to answer; maybe some others will chime in, but when I've got the free time, I'll try to answer as much as I can for the peoples.

I'll also answer relationship questions, because some of you guys need a shitload of help. :lol:

[BardicKnowledge]

Here's a couple judging questions for you:

What percentage of submissions are asked to resubmit after fixing a few things?

And as a followup: How many of those actually follow through, tweak what's been asked, and resub?

[Liontamer]

Here's a couple judging questions for you:

What percentage of submissions are asked to resubmit after fixing a few things?

That's an interesting one, in that we really don't catalog what rejections get a more positive response or seem really close to passing. I've got no idea of a solid percentage where we have a consensus that things are pretty good, even though it's not a YES yet. Conservatively, I'd say maybe 5-7% of rejections, you either get a mix of YESs and the rest are positive NOs, or all of the NOs react encouragingly towards the track.

And as a followup: How many of those actually follow through, tweak what's been asked, and resub?
Way fewer than I would like to see. In terms of resubs that pass, I'm fairly sure those make up less than 5% of all submissions. If anything, I'd love to know how many submitting artists actually read their decision threads. Out of 1800+ subs that I've voted on, I'm again just taking a stab, but I'm sure I've heard maybe 50 where IMO the artist only had to do pretty minor stuff, could have tweaked it, and it would have made it to the front page.

I think the best example I can think of is way back when I started, we got a mix from Kailem: Tetris Attack "Poochy Meets Froggy DX" (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2336). Kind of an unwieldy title, but the arrangement was excellent.

Assuming you've now had a chance to read that decision, when we get situations like that, as much as some people like to claim we're production whores, we've been pretty lenient on stuff. (Zoltan Vegvari's Mega Man 3 "Intro Jazz" (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01221/) is the best example on that level.) But the mixing/balance was so terrible on "Poochy" that it got rejected. I really thought Kailem would work on it some more and send it back, but it never happened.

A good example of someone actually following through would be Navij11's Kirby & The Amazing Mirror "Kirby's Mystical Mirror" (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13296), the resub of which has yet to go up. Personally, I have 0 idea whether Jacob was mad at the initial rejection or whatever, but he did a great job of running with the criticisms and revising the arrangement to give it more substance while not needlessly overhauling it. We've had plenty of close ones where the artist, instead of just tweaking a couple of things, majorly changed what was there, and ended up moving backwards.

Anyway, for me, I tend to say "resubmit" when a concept is promising but could use further development, even if I don't think the artist could easily get it to pass; there could certainly be a lot of issues. I'd rather see how much they can improve an already solid concept.

"refine/resubmit", I'll use for stuff that I feel doesn't need too much more work to pass. The real gold to me though, I'll use "borderline". Any time I use that in any context, that's a pretty close one, and I would hope the artist didn't choose to call it a day.

[Sengin]

Do you guys take a look at the author before listening? In other words, if you know the person submitting has had other remixes on the site before, does the name even subconciuosly affect your decision if you're on the fence? And the same for new remixers, but with the other way? If you're on the fence, is it more generally a "no" so that you can hopefully get a better quality mix in a little while as a resub?

If I were to submit a mix now, what would be the average time it takes to get judged? And if it got accepted, what's the average time it would take to make the front page? How many mixes that have been accepted are still waiting to make the front page?

Good idea for a topic, by the way.

[AMT]

Why does it take so long for accepted remixes to get posted? I don't mean this as a confrontational question, I know you guys have a lot going on in your own lives on top of OCR, but is there a particular reason it takes a while?

[Ramaniscence]

Why does it take so long for accepted remixes to get posted? I don't mean this as a confrontational question, I know you guys have a lot going on in your own lives on top of OCR, but is there a particular reason it takes a while?

Real-life and write-ups, I would assume. Those things don't write themselves, and if you're thinkin' "How hard could it be to write a couple paragraphes and post some songs a few times a week?" you got another thing coming.

This is also assuming the mixer/game/system/composer/company are all already in the database. Otherwise you ahve to go out and get all that info, find a game image, edit and upload that image, add everything to the dabatase, check and recheck to make sure it's working, and then post.

Edit: It's also been said before, and rightfully so, that the space between mixes is also sometimes on purpose. If they posted every mix as it got accepted you'd get days with 5-7 mixes, and weeks with no mixes at all. And from a mixer perspective you have more time to have your mix on the front page and get more exposure, rather than having it forced out in 2 updates.

[SoloGamer]

Can the judges DJP? [/obligatory]

[Murmeli Walan]

Can the judges DJP? [/obligatory]

I think there's more than enough evidence to support that they can. ;)

[Liontamer]

Glad you like the topic.

Do you guys take a look at the author before listening? In other words, if you know the person submitting has had other remixes on the site before, does the name even subconciuosly affect your decision if you're on the fence?

I know Vigilante doesn't pay attention to names much, but I don't it's specifically an effort to make himself more impartial. I'd be foolish to say that in the 6 years of the panel that not a single vote by a judge has gone one way or the other based on name. When you say "subconsciously" though, by definition, that's something we wouldn't pick up on.

At the same time though, I don't feel like I've seen it in my 3 1/2 years on board. Honestly, if I could think of one where I really felt someone was biased, I'd point it out to you right now and link it.

For me, I always look at the author. To me, it doesn't have any affect on my voting. At the end of the day, I pride myself on my objectivity. I've been in plenty of cases where I'm sure I've lost goodwill with people because I've NOed their material. Not that every group I'm gonna mention has had someone complain, but I've NOed past judges, future judges, current judges, old-school legends, music majors, and artists with professional music, film and game credits.

You've just gotta go with your honest take on everything, I think that's much easier at the end of the day. I dunno how others feel, and can't speak for them, but I feel great knowing that I've been around so long and never been close to compromising my standards. It's also good to have colleagues where, if we disagree, they want to change your convictions, instead of wanting you to vote against your convictions.

I've definitely felt conflicted before, certainly on name. I think NOing Mazedude (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3261) and Mustin (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2490) were some of the more difficult ones for me, in the sense that I'd hope they wouldn't get angry and not want to be involved in OCR, submitting, the community, etc. But I've never actually had it come down to actually going "well, I don't truly think it's a YES, but should I YES it?" I'm thankful I don't have those kind of moral dilemmas. When it comes to integrity vs. Hands Across America, I'd rather keep my integrity.

And the same for new remixers, but with the other way? If you're on the fence, is it more generally a "no" so that you can hopefully get a better quality mix in a little while as a resub?

Nah. If anything, NOing new/unposted artists that are close to passing should feel more difficult, in the sense that maybe they'll get frustrated and not stay involved in the community. But for me, it's not difficult. Much like dealing with established ReMixers, you just gotta vote even-handed and hope for the best in terms of the person's attitude.

If I were to submit a mix now, what would be the average time it takes to get judged? And if it got accepted, what's the average time it would take to make the front page? How many mixes that have been accepted are still waiting to make the front page?

To get judged? Right now, it would vary from 2 weeks to 3 months. Just like in the Judge FAQ, it depends on a myriad of reasons. As soon as we hit Christmas last year, we all basically went on hiatus, and we're back to where were at before in terms of judging wait time. Even now, I haven't had the time to get back into it as much. That being said, I think we can pick it back up. When we have momentum, we start going through a lot of submissions at once.

Wait time after acceptance? It's all on djp's schedule. It's a packed schedule. 2-3 months at least, AFAIK. We've got a pretty big posting queue of stuff ready and waiting to go up.

Number of mixes waiting? Currently 24 that definitely could be posted any time right now, around 12 that are part of unreleased album projects and about 12 that need to be tweaked a bit before they're ready to be posted.

Why does it take so long for accepted remixes to get posted? I don't mean this as a confrontational question, I know you guys have a lot going on in your own lives on top of OCR, but is there a particular reason it takes a while?

Life. There's always going to be an excuse/reason why. Nowadays, djp's got so many irons in the fire, with the planning of the Street Fighter II HD Remix soundtrack, conventions, contests, interviews and real life with a girlfriend and job. So djp's gotta fit the posting of mixes into all that. That's really the only reason. Like Rama mentioned, song writeups aren't as easy as it looks, and stuff needs to get the proper spotlight time on the front page. But yeah, life. I would really love a streamlined enough system where we had stuff from the inbox to the frontpage in 2-3 weeks.

[zircon]

Do you guys take a look at the author before listening? In other words, if you know the person submitting has had other remixes on the site before, does the name even subconciuosly affect your decision if you're on the fence? And the same for new remixers, but with the other way? If you're on the fence, is it more generally a "no" so that you can hopefully get a better quality mix in a little while as a resub?

Personally, half the time I don't even read who the remixer is. I often find out simply by reading the votes of the other judges. I don't think the person necessarily has an impact on my final vote, either, though how I write it might change. If I'm NOing a sub from an established remixer, I'll phrase it differently than if I'm NOing a sub from someone that hasn't gotten passed yet.

[Hausdog]

How hard is it to phrase exactly what the song does well/poorly? Sometimes, when I'm in the WIP forums, I'll really like something but not be able to deliver anything helpful beyond encouragement.

How often do you "yes" mixes you dislike and "no" mixes you like?

What are some of your pet peeves that submitters do?

[FR]

I'll give you an easy one: How do you become a judge?

[Txai]

Which are your actions when you don't find the ost from an evaluation?

[zircon]

Hopefully Larry won't mind me answering some of these :)

I'll give you an easy one: How do you become a judge?

We look for a number of qualities in potential new judges. There are no formal requirements, and we've brought people on who didn't have all these qualities, but the list should give you a general idea:

* Active and constructive involvement in the community. Specifically we look for people that regularly spend time in the Reviews and WIP forums, as well as ReMixing and #ocrwip.

* A personality that we think we can get along with. If you are a regular troublemaker on the forums, or if you have a huge ego, or you tend to fly off the handle constantly, that doesn't bode well for the group interaction. We've definitely had to let judges go in the past because of this.

* Good musicianship. If you get rejected all the time, how are you going to give useful feedback to other people? The exception to this is people with an excellent musical ear who are not themselves musicians, such as Larry and CHz.

* The ability to be articulate and give constructive criticism. Probably obvious, but you might meet all the above criteria but have poor English, for example, in which case it might be hard for you to give useful feedback to people. Alternatively, you might be a great musician but simply not be good at critiquing. This comes up more often than you'd think.

* A good sense for where our standards are at, and a general agreement with how we do things. If you like the site but think that we really ought to accepting covers and MIDI rips, you ain't gonna be a judge. Not to say that we don't allow disagreement within the panel, in fact, we regularly discuss issues of standards; especially on borderline votes. However, any new judge has to at least agree generally with where we are now.

This last point is maybe one of the biggest reasons we turn people down - they don't have a grasp of what we're looking for in submissions and either accept or reject things that should be obviously going in the other direction, or simply have poor reasoning for why a mix should or should not be posted.

--

As for the actual process, we're always looking out for people with the above qualities in the community, but believe me they are in pretty short supply. If there's someone really outstanding we may look to test just them and bring them on without doing a whole multiple-candidate evaluation - this is what we did with Harmony.

MOST of the time, however, we look for new judges when we feel like our ranks have either thinned to the point that we need replacements for people that have left, or when things just seem to be moving too slow and we need fresh blood. When this happens we begin a process that usually takes a couple months to complete. We compile a list of names of people who might be good candidates, then have a lengthy discussion and eliminate ones we don't think would be a good fit. We're then left with a smaller list (<12 people) who we'll interview, then test by giving them a number of remixes to judge as if they were already on the panel. After the test, we interview them again and talk about their votes.

While this is going on, we typically post the "test batches" of all the candidates as well as the interview logs, where possible. Finally, we review everything as a group and determine which people would be the strongest to add to the panel.

In short, be active in the community, give feedback in the WIP and Reviews forums, sharpen your skills as a ReMixer, and regularly read the Judges Decisions forum. And don't call us, we'll call you.

Which are your actions when you don't find the ost from an evaluation?

To my knowledge, this has only happened once, where we absolutely could not find the source anywhere. Luckily, the production in that case was such that even if it had a hot arrangement, the production issues alone were enough to NO it. I think if we were really unsure and could not find the OST at all, we would have to solicit the community and the ReMixer to help us find it. Though I think that if something is really that obscure, it might not even qualify as acceptable material (eg. random homebrew PC game from 1987.)

[Liontamer]

How hard is it to phrase exactly what the song does well/poorly? Sometimes, when I'm in the WIP forums, I'll really like something but not be able to deliver anything helpful beyond encouragement.

Kind of a copout, but it all depends on the track. If it's hard to articulate the issues, it's also hard to articulate WHY we can't articulate the issues.

Usually though, it's not too difficult to be able to say what's working and what's not. For me, a non-musician, I just stick to what I know (or purport to know). For example, with instruments, I can't tell the difference between various groups of brass, mallet percussion, woodwinds or synth techniques. Instead of trying to bullshit that, I just generalize those things when referring to the instruments.

I wish I could be able to look back and just point to XYZ method as what made me improve at music critique, but I don't know of one. After listening to all the ReMixes and having a good idea of the standards in 2002-2003, I just understood where the bar generally was and what kind of creativity and production quality was being looked for here.

The best thing I can say is to be detail-oriented. Have some decent headphones (I'll never judge on anything but headphones.) They don't have to be overly expensive, but some generic earbuds can't help you pick out details. GrayLightning recommended me the Sennheiser HD497s a few years ago, and while a little bit trebbly, they're nonetheless excellent. I think they were $60. But I judged for maybe 1 year and some change on some $30 ones and got by.

Writing down thoughts in a stream of consciousness always helps me, especially when I'm finding it difficult to articulate issues/problems. Even if what you wrote down isn't very organized, you'll have your thoughts out in front of you. Part of the benefits of having colleagues on the panel are that they can look at what you're thinking and possibly corroborate your POV.

How often do you "yes" mixes you dislike and "no" mixes you like?

Definitely couldn't give a percentage on that, but often enough. Many YESs, they're objectively good, but I wouldn't put them on my iPod vs. other songs out there. That's not a slight against those tracks, but not everything can be a personal favorite just because it's well made. Then again, I don't actively dislike those tracks. I don't think I've ever encountered tracks I've hated that I've YESed, but rather I'm personally indifferent to them, even though I'm impressed as a judge. That being said, I liked maybe 1/3rd of the OCR's back in the 700s. Nowadays, the proportion is higher because the consistency from mix to mix is higher.

I keep about 5% of the rejections I've encountered in a folder. I like 'em, I still listen to 'em. It's definitely a perk. There are a lot of decent NOs.

What are some of your pet peeves that submitters do?

Ha, that's funny. Good question. Nowadays, there are a lot fewer peeves, now that we've revised the submission standards. There used to be so many MIDI rips and files that would 404 because they were hosted on Putfile or whatever and expired in 7 days, before we could get to them. MIDI rips and uncreative covers have definitely gone down since the Standards were cleaned up a couple of months ago.

Maybe the only one is when submitters who have forum accounts go "I have no idea what my forum ID # is". It's not hard to get the ID #. I'm #1211. Doesn't really matter, since I handle those details for the database anyway. If I think of something else, offhand, I'll let you know.

[The wingless]

Can former judges answer stuff? Oh, pweeese?

[Liontamer]

Hopefully Larry won't mind me answering some of these :)

Yeah, definitely. This is for all the judges. Former judges too, whenever relevant.

To my knowledge, this has only happened once, where we absolutely could not find the source anywhere. Luckily, the production in that case was such that even if it had a hot arrangement, the production issues alone were enough to NO it. I think if we were really unsure and could not find the OST at all, we would have to solicit the community and the ReMixer to help us find it. Though I think that if something is really that obscure, it might not even qualify as acceptable material (eg. random homebrew PC game from 1987.)

Yeah, following up on that, I'd quit before we posted a track with no source tune to compare. At the end of the day, I need the proof that the arrangement is interpretive enough. The video game music fan community is resourceful though. Nowadays, there's a very low likelihood that we'd get stuck with something where we definitely couldn't find the source.

[Fishy]

plz voet yus on ma beatz plz?

Also how does the direct post system actually work, cause I remember hearing from someone that you guys have a possible DP list that I presume is visible to the judges, even if they don't get input. Is it like entirely Larry's decision, or does he pick a few and show them to Dave to get his thoughts? Do any of the judges get any input on that?

[Palpable]

And as a followup: How many of those actually follow through, tweak what's been asked, and resub?

Throwing in my own two cents here as a mixer rather than a judge: I didn't know about the judge decision forums until submitting my third mix here. The only thing I did was constantly check the front page for months. In the case of my first mix, I wasn't even aware it had gone up until months afterward because I had stopped checking! By the time I submitted my fourth mix (which was rejected) I had learned about the judge decisions forums, but I was essentially doing the same thing: checking every few days for a couple months. In that case, I got so tired of waiting that I lost interest in OCR completely.

I would love if we could e-mail mixers once their mix had completing judging, informing them of the decision, but there are at least a few problems with it I can think of. One is just remembering to do it, unless we can automate the process. Two is that sometimes the decision can be changed. In that case, when is the decision finalized such that we can tell the mixer what the decision was?

These are certainly some things I'd like us to think about. I think a lot of great potential resubmits fall by the wayside because the mixer isn't familiar enough with OCR or doesn't check back often enough. There was one rejected mix back in November that I absolutely loved that nevertheless had some major problems. I've thought about e-mailing the mixer just because I very badly want to see it completed, and I have no idea if he ever intends to go back to it, or is even aware it was rejected. More communication would be a very good thing, I think, if it's possible.

[Liontamer]

Also how does the direct post system actually work, cause I remember hearing from someone that you guys have a possible DP list that I presume is visible to the judges, even if they don't get input. Is it like entirely Larry's decision, or does he pick a few and show them to Dave to get his thoughts? Do any of the judges get any input on that?

I did have a list that the judges could view, but they don't really care too much about the DPs, or at least no one has told me, so I don't maintain it anymore. That being said, anything I flag for DP is on the judges FTP, so they can check out anything any time.

Yeah I suppose de facto, I'm now single-handedly responsible for DPs. So really when it says "Evaluated by: djpretzel", it should be saying "Evaluated by: Liontamer". :lol:

I've never had djp or the judges complain about what gets DPed. The judges, that could be an issue of them simply not listening to the DPs when they're posted, because maybe someone would have an issue, but I've never heard of one yet. Dave clearly hears everything, at least before doing the writeups, and I've never had him complain either.

I'd argue that my DP bar is higher than djp's, but I don't think he would take offense, because he's said before on VGF #50 that he feels the site's gotten better since the panel got more influence on song selection, because they have higher collective standards.

When I flag something for DP, I pretty much make sure, to the best that I can, that it's cut-and-dry YES quality.

[JJT]

How hard is it to phrase exactly what the song does well/poorly?
Depends on how well a judge knows the genre in question. I'm generally more comfortable critiquing jazz and solo piano arrangements than say, Tibetan throat singing. The less I know about a genre, the more general I have to be with my criticism.

How often do you "yes" mixes you dislike and "no" mixes you like?

I'd estimate that I like about 70% of the stuff I YES, and maybe 10% of the stuff I NO. There have been a few heart breakers for me, definitely.

What are some of your pet peeves that submitters do?
Probably my biggest pet peeve is when first time submitters write a fuggin' novel about the remix they threw together in FL in 6 hours. They write 4 paragraphs about playing the game for the first time at age 7. They mention the names of everyone who listened to earlier drafts. They thank God, and their parents. And after all of this they suck profusely. There's nothing that calls down the fire (as far as my votes are concerned) like a longass pretentious submission email.

Once you get a mix or two posted, feel free to write a ton, as Dave likes putting that stuff in the writeups. I do it all the time.

[Arek the Absolute]

Depends on how well a judge knows the genre in question. I'm generally more comfortable critiquing jazz and solo piano arrangements than say, Tibetan throat singing. The less I know about a genre, the more general I have to be with my criticism.

I'd estimate that I like about 70% of the stuff I YES, and maybe 10% of the stuff I NO. There have been a few heart breakers for me, definitely.

Probably my biggest pet peeve is when first time submitters write a fuggin' novel about the remix they threw together in FL in 6 hours. They write 4 paragraphs about playing the game for the first time at age 7. They mention the names of everyone who listened to earlier drafts. They thank God, and their parents. And after all of this they suck profusely. There's nothing that calls down the fire (as far as my votes are concerned) like a longass pretentious submission email.

Once you get a mix or two posted, feel free to write a ton, as Dave likes putting that stuff in the writeups. I do it all the time.

Since you mentioned "write ups", what is your favorite "write up" that you got for a mix that was submitted?

[Liontamer]

Throwing in my own two cents here as a mixer rather than a judge: I didn't know about the judge decision forums until submitting my third mix here. The only thing I did was constantly check the front page for months. In the case of my first mix, I wasn't even aware it had gone up until months afterward because I had stopped checking! By the time I submitted my fourth mix (which was rejected) I had learned about the judge decisions forums, but I was essentially doing the same thing: checking every few days for a couple months. In that case, I got so tired of waiting that I lost interest in OCR completely.

I would love if we could e-mail mixers once their mix had completing judging, informing them of the decision, but there are at least a few problems with it I can think of. One is just remembering to do it, unless we can automate the process. Two is that sometimes the decision can be changed. In that case, when is the decision finalized such that we can tell the mixer what the decision was?

These are certainly some things I'd like us to think about. I think a lot of great potential resubmits fall by the wayside because the mixer isn't familiar enough with OCR or doesn't check back often enough. There was one rejected mix back in November that I absolutely loved that nevertheless had some major problems. I've thought about e-mailing the mixer just because I very badly want to see it completed, and I have no idea if he ever intends to go back to it, or is even aware it was rejected. More communication would be a very good thing, I think, if it's possible.

I would love to do that, and I've definitely thought about that, but have so much on my plate and have been content enough with our current system that I haven't taken the time to move an idea like this forward.

Keeping mixers in the loop is one aspect where our system really has no plan other than "they should follow the site", which is definitely not conducive to getting new people to become community regulars. Admittedly, it has worked for us so far, and honestly, it would continue to as is, because enough people become regulars. But contacting people regarding acceptances and rejections would be great.

That would also be yet another thing I'd have to be personally responsible for, since I maintain the inbox. IF we developed a form letter for notifying artists about acceptances and rejections, I would love to start doing that. I feel that kind of contact/updating is something that would only benefit the site, even though we'd have our share of complainers who would resent bad news.

[Palpable]

IF we developed a form letter for notifying artists about acceptances and rejections, I would love to start doing that. I feel that kind of contact/updating is something that would only benefit the site, even though we'd have our share of complainers who would resent bad news.

Yeah, this is sort of what I was thinking. Maybe one form letter for NO, one for NO (resubmit), one for YES, with maybe some space for comments if we feel the need. (Of course, NO (resubmit) is an individual's decision, not a group decision, so maybe we'd have to be clear about what gets classified as NO (resubmit).) Getting people to resubmit is the most crucial part of this to me. A decent amount of stuff we get is close but doesn't make it.

[Kanthos]

Why not a form letter with a link to the Judges' Decision thread for that mix? That'd be less work than cutting-and-pasting comments into the e-mail.

[DragonAvenger]

From the sounds of it, it seems like you should get a judges secretary who could take care of such matters. Having a YES and NO basic email, and have the secretary post the link to the judges decision into the email.

And a question, to stay more on topic: Are there remixes that you find to me more impressive/creative than others? Like, changing the melody around is one thing, but do you find time signature changes or genre changes to be a bigger leap, per se.

[Liontamer]

Yeah, this is sort of what I was thinking. Maybe one form letter for NO, one for NO (resubmit), one for YES, with maybe some space for comments if we feel the need. (Of course, NO (resubmit) is an individual's decision, not a group decision, so maybe we'd have to be clear about what gets classified as NO (resubmit).) Getting people to resubmit is the most crucial part of this to me. A decent amount of stuff we get is close but doesn't make it.

Why not a form letter with a link to the Judges' Decision thread for that mix? That'd be less work than cutting-and-pasting comments into the e-mail.

Yeah, I'm thinking more along the lines something that generally explains the next step in the waiting game for YESs, and very basic things about the reasoning for NOs, with links to read re: the standards, and also the ReMixing and Works forums. Then the only thing for the NO ones would be pasting in the Decision link. But there would have to be an general explanation of the judging process in the mail, it could just be "Hey, we finished your decision; the link is here."

Differentiating a letter between NOs and NO-resubmits might be a little dicey, but we'll mull it over.

[zyko]

How often do you "yes" mixes you dislike and "no" mixes you like?


i think this is a pretty good question as it also ties into an earlier question concerning BRAND NAME authors.

as you can imagine, it can be a little difficult to entirely ignore who the author is. luckily for me, i hardly ever look at the thread very closely before clicking the link, in turn, completely surprising myself. so unless i already recognize the artist for being unique (i have a good ear for signature sound), i won't let who it is dictate my first impressions.

however, that can be a lot more difficult than it seems. i have rejected nearly half of the tracks that i've liked because my role here is dictated by the standards of the site, not by my own standards which, at most times, differ greatly. i'm definitely a sucker for raw, emotive music that is rough around the edges... much like my own. i've had a fair share of my tracks rejected from the site so im very familiar with where the line is drawn =)

i've also been able to effectively review and accept tracks that i would never listen to again. i pride myself on enjoying many different flavors of tea but even when it isn't my cup, i still can taste the goodness in it. bias is often where a judge prospect fails miserably.

as for brand name authors... well it is hard to reject music by a guy like mazedude or mustin. hell, recently, we rejected JJT's halloween mix... and we know he's one talented sucka. the dilemma in having a bar is that it has to be applied consistently and fairly. i learned this lesson as a parent of a toddler girl. not everything is cut n dry or black n white in judgement and this is why a judge of any capacity is such a unique position. when afforded the position to dictate, one has to dictate with a consistent authority. i'd hate to reject a mazedude track again as he's amazing but if it doesn't cut it, it just don't cut it.



How hard is it to phrase exactly what the song does well/poorly? Sometimes, when I'm in the WIP forums, I'll really like something but not be able to deliver anything helpful beyond encouragement.

very hard unless i'm completely stoned. when something is pretty good, there is nothing to say short of gushing

admit it: it's much easier to rant and rave about something that has something to rant and rave about and verbosity comes natural to negative criticism. i do make a concerted effort to let up off the gas pedal sometimes as i can, inadvertently, start to rip a hole in places where one might not have wanted one.

the difficulty, i believe, stems from the desire to criticize in a fashion to inspire or instigate a motion towards refinement of either the specific piece or the artist, in general. seems elementary but it actually takes a considerable amount of manipulation... in other words, not everybody reacts the same to "NO:resubmit" (i know i don't ever resubmit hehe) so sometimes (and the trick is to know instantly when) it is more viable to just trash the thing into oblivion and try to light that fire underneath the artist to return with something considerably better.

sometimes something is so awful, you are left with not saying much. i try my very hardest not to judge the ones that need the most criticism because it can be quite difficult to dedicate that sort of effort when faced with a lot of voting. truth is, the easy out that i've seen other judges use in the past and that i've used, myself, is to refer the artist to the WIP forums. plenty of visitors there are more than happy to take their time to break everything down and they are usually full of great ideas.


What are some of your pet peeves that submitters do?

not name their pieces. not end their pieces. not actually remix the track they claim to have remixed.


=======

hey nobody said this shit was easy =)

[Nekofrog]

Less of a question, more of a request. Most of you hate me from past history with the site, but don't let that reflect the way you judge my submission.


Dicks :P

[FR]

Form Letters: "Delivering NO's via e-mail to disapoint artists FASTER"

Kidding aside, How many judges are there and what is the "maxium capapcity" of judges? Are their an odd number of judges to avoid deadlocks? What font color do judges deliver no's in?

EDIT: My 100th post was making fun the judges(sorta) LOL.

[The Pezman]

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5678/larryquitqz6.png
Are you on the panel or aren't you?


How often do the judges themselves find time to work on mixes in between Real Life and judging? How inclined would they be to collaborate with n00bs in an attempt to help bring their mixes and skills up to snuff?

[Escariot]

How often do the judges themselves find time to work on mixes in between Real Life and judging? How inclined would they be to collaborate with n00bs in an attempt to help bring their mixes and skills up to snuff?
I'm not a judge, but working with someone of greater skill doesn't make you a better remixer. Practicing, along with some good natural talent will improve your mixing.
Sounds like you want to know judges are willing to collab with newbs to give newbs a free ride to the front page.

[Liontamer]

From the sounds of it, it seems like you should get a judges secretary who could take care of such matters. Having a YES and NO basic email, and have the secretary post the link to the judges decision into the email.

Well, I pretty much am the secretary. I don't really see anyone else stepping up to handle the need. I'd love for somebody to, but due to maintaining the inbox, it's basically most convenient in the big picture that I handle it. :lol:

And a question, to stay more on topic: Are there remixes that you find to me more impressive/creative than others? Like, changing the melody around is one thing, but do you find time signature changes or genre changes to be a bigger leap, per se.

Interesting question. In short, yes. People are gonna point at that and be like "YOU SEE, they want people to make the arrangement unrecognizable and shit!" It's not really that cut-and-dry.

The more creative/unique/interpretive the arrangement is, while not losing site of the original, the more I probably like it as a judge. I've never looked at one aspect of arrangement like "Oh shit, he went from 4/4 to 13/8"; it doesn't trigger like that. Besides changing things, you have to actually pull off the changes well. But I will admit, I really do like the eclectic ReMixers we have, like Shnabubula, ktriton, and AeroZ. Slap their name on it, and I've gotta hear it.

Less of a question, more of a request. Most of you hate me from past history with the site, but don't let that reflect the way you judge my submission.

Dicks :P

We've had a lot worse than a n00b like you. Don't worry, you're nothing to me, so my decision wouldn't be affected. :lol:

Kidding aside, How many judges are there and what is the "maxium capapcity" of judges? Are their an odd number of judges to avoid deadlocks? What font color do judges deliver no's in?

Only Shnabubula used font colors regularly when judging. There's no max limit of judges, though I don't see us ever going higher than 12. There's no requirement for an odd number of Js; djp can break a tie (e.g. 6Y/6N) or virtual tie (e.g. 6Y/5N) regardless of the number of judges.

How often do the judges themselves find time to work on mixes in between Real Life and judging? How inclined would they be to collaborate with n00bs in an attempt to help bring their mixes and skills up to snuff?

Not a musician, but in terms of working with n00bs, lack of time generally means we don't have time to do loads of 1-on-1 help with people.

[zircon]

Yeah, of all the judges I'm *probably* the most accessible in terms of the amount of time I spend on IRC and on the forums, but these days it's definitely tough for me to give any one-on-one help aside from possibly listening to your track and pointing you towards resources. These days I just have an insane amount of projects and things I want to do. I feel good if I can do 3-4 mixes a year now, though I'd like to get back into it more.

[Florio]

Do you all have a job that has something to do with mixing or music in general ? Or is music just a hobby for you ?

[Israfel]

Do you all have a job that has something to do with mixing or music in general ? Or is music just a hobby for you ?

Before he fell off the net, the late, great former judge Graylightning seemed to be making progress in that direction. If I remember correctly (and I may not be :P ), he had started working at a music studio about the time I lost track of him.

Can anyone confirm that? It's been awhile. ;)

[ILLiterate]

We've all heard of this "groove bias," my question is...

What exactly is this groove and how do I put it into my music for an easy YES?

[V___]

* Active and constructive involvement in the community. Specifically we look for people that regularly spend time in the Reviews and WIP forums, as well as ReMixing and #ocrwip.



aww daym, now we're gonna be flooded by judge wannabes...

[Hemophiliac]

Before he fell off the net, the late, great former judge Graylightning seemed to be making progress in that direction. If I remember correctly (and I may not be :P ), he had started working at a music studio about the time I lost track of him.

Can anyone confirm that? It's been awhile. ;)

yes he was working at a studio as a sort of technicology consultant/tech engineer. then he moved to somewhere in the middle of nowhere becuase of working in Nashville i believe.

he really should update everyone someday.

[anosou]

Probably my biggest pet peeve is when first time submitters write a fuggin' novel about the remix they threw together in FL in 6 hours. They write 4 paragraphs about playing the game for the first time at age 7. They mention the names of everyone who listened to earlier drafts. They thank God, and their parents. And after all of this they suck profusely. There's nothing that calls down the fire (as far as my votes are concerned) like a longass pretentious submission email.

JJT, eat a dick. ;)

aww daym, now we're gonna be flooded by judge wannabes...

Come on now V, it'll be fun :3

[SnappleMan]

Larry: How did they let you, a black man, onto the pannel?

[Ciel]

This question may broach some sensitive behind-the-scenes material so I'm not expecting you guys to answer, but I was wondering why certain judges like Shnabubula, Harmony, and Israfel left or were removed from the panel. Being a hardcore theory geek, I always enjoyed reading Shnabubula's write-ups. I always wondered if perhaps he was deemed unsuitable as a judge because his feedback was too technical for most remixers? Harmony and Israfel seemed to provide a good balance between technical and more accessible comments, so they were two of my favorites as well.

[JJT]

Do you all have a job that has something to do with mixing or music in general ? Or is music just a hobby for you ?

Both zircon and pixietricks are students ramping up for music careers, and AFAIK the majority of their income comes from music at this point.

Several of us (myself, BGC for example) have day jobs but also have bands/side projects/steady gigs that give us cashflow on the side.

So yes and no, I guess. I can't speak for everyone on the panel.

[CHz]

* Good musicianship. If you get rejected all the time, how are you going to give useful feedback to other people? The exception to this is people with an excellent musical ear who are not themselves musicians, such as Larry and CHz.
I just wanted to point out that I'm technically a musician, since I managed to fit in about six years of piano lessons or so a while back (haven't had any since I started college, though). Learned jack about music theory, and a kitten walking on a keyboard could outcompose me, so–

Since you mentioned "write ups", what is your favorite "write up" that you got for a mix that was submitted?
I dunno what I'd say my all time favorite sub letter was, but a couple of examples from recently judged mixes stick out: CHIPP Damage's epic story for his epic, epic mix "The Shining Blue Armor Descends," and Written Pages calling out BGC in his intro to his Axelay sub, "Dancing Colonist." Something about quoting "big giant circles" and following it up with an all-caps "OCREMIX" makes me chuckle every time.

Do you all have a job that has something to do with mixing or music in general ? Or is music just a hobby for you ?
I'm one of the non-mixing judges. Right now I'm a student with a part-time job as a computer lab admin, fixing crap when it breaks and preventing people from breaking things. After I graduate, my career will pretty much be like Office Space (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151804/).

We've all heard of this "groove bias," my question is...

What exactly is this groove and how do I put it into my music for an easy YES?
Make sure your remix has a healthy concentration of boom. Tiss is optional, though highly recommended.

[Israfel]

why certain judges like Shnabubula, Harmony, and Israfel left or were removed from the panel.

I won't comment on the other guys, but speaking just for myself: listening to and reviewing mixes is pretty darn time consuming, and if you don't really enjoy doing it, you're going to get burned out. That's all; I just got tired of it. No behind-the-scenes drama or anything--I was never that heavily involved in the off-stage goings on anyway. Aside from Gray, I didn't have much contact with the other judges.

[Subz1987]

I've noticed that most mixes get four YES/three NO before getting accepted/rejected. Others don't seem to follow that with a mix having a lot more YES or NO votes before getting accepted or rejected. How do you decide how remixes get accepted or rejected? Do you guys discuss remixes that happen to be on the line between being accepted or rejected in a separate judges forum?

Also, can you explain NO OVERRIDE?

[zyko]

Aside from Gray, I didn't have much contact with the other judges.

that's not true, bro! =)

[Dyne]

I'll also answer relationship questions, because some of you guys need a shitload of help. :lol:

So, there's this person I want to get to know better, and get a feel for what this person is like. Find out what this person likes, more about this person's life history and what not. But, I don't know how to go about it. I was wondering if you could help me sort it out.

Cause, ya know, you said you'd help. :)

[DragonAvenger]

Also, can you explain NO OVERRIDE?

Correct my if I'm wrong (or tweak this to be more right), but NO OVERRIDE is when a mix makes it to the panel and then is found to have something that goes against submission policies. No one's perfect, so things slip through here and there.

[Harmony]

I was wondering why certain judges like Shnabubula, Harmony, and Israfel left or were removed from the panel. It was nothing more than a time constraint on my part. While judging was an amazingly rewarding experience, I'm also a grad student, and I couldn't dedicate enough time to do both well. So something had to go, and since judging doesn't pay the bills... :(

I always enjoyed reading Shnabubula's write-ups.didn't we all :)

[big giant circles]

I dunno what I'd say my all time favorite sub letter was, but a couple of examples from recently judged mixes stick out: CHIPP Damage's epic story for his epic, epic mix "The Shining Blue Armor Descends," and Written Pages calling out BGC in his intro to his Axelay sub, "Dancing Colonist." Something about quoting "big giant circles" and following it up with an all-caps "OCREMIX" makes me chuckle every time.

hahaha, yes, that was classic. And I guess it answers the question of "Do I read every submission email?" The answer is NO, I don't. I read some of them. Depends on how I feel at that moment. At any rate, yeah, that was a funny rejection. I guess I should "do my homework" more often, because heaven knows, real pianos and virtual pianos sound nothing alike these days[/sarcasm].

Also, DA is correct. A NO OVERRIDE is if a mix is in clear violation of site policy, but maybe it slipped past Larry. It doesn't happen often, and there's nothing we love more than slapping a big fat [size=200]NO OVERRIDE vote down, but Larry is pretty dang good at catching that stuff.

[OverCoat]

Are you on the panel or aren't you?

Just FYI, I made that comic as a joke, and because I was too obsessed with Churuya at the moment :3

Then larry and I tried to act it out IRL and he didn't know what to do. I was heartbroken.

[analoq]

I don't have a question, I just wanted to say:

The era of chipmunks is over. (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3205)

cheers.

[zircon]

Do you all have a job that has something to do with mixing or music in general ? Or is music just a hobby for you ?

As Jon said, both Jill and myself are studying music at school and earn money from it part-time (as our primary income source.) When we graduate, we both intend to be full-time musicians (Jill as a composer/performer, me as a composer/producer.) We've both done a fair amount of commercial/professional projects already.

Vigilante is at Berklee College of Music, so I imagine he'll probably want to be a musician full time as well, but I could be wrong on that.

[DarkeSword]

Do you all have a job that has something to do with mixing or music in general ? Or is music just a hobby for you ?

As for me, no I don't have a music related job. I do reliability testing for high-power laser diodes. Before that I worked at a nuclear power plant.

[Dyne]

As for me, no I don't have a music related job. I do reliability testing for high-power laser diodes. Before that I worked at a nuclear power plant.

You worked at a nuke plant? Wow man, I can only imagine what that was like. A friend of mine used to work for the local nuclear power station nearby, but he quit that after his dad died. His dad, for reference, was an officer at a prison, which by the way, is Graterford. (I'm sure you've heard of it, it's local to Philadelphia)

[zircon]

DarkeSword's job is basically chargin' his lazers.

[linkspast]

How long do you guys think are going to be around OCR?

What about after your music careers take off, will you still be as prominent?

[Nicole Adams]

It doesn't happen often, and there's nothing we love more than slapping a big fat [size=200]NO OVERRIDE vote down...
You got that right. (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5311)

[Abadoss]

I don't have a question, I just wanted to say:



cheers.

That would be the first time I've seen a non-judge make a decision on a ReMix before. How often does that happen? Who do you go to, and why, for those situations?

[Escariot]

This question is specifically for Israfel: What happened to that OWA remix you had A WHILE ago. It wasn't posted on OCR, but was on your site a while back. And I downloaded it, and lost the CD it was burned to.

To all of the judges: I know that as a newb to meetups, I was really excited to go to one (DC VGL!). I've only attended 2 so far, counting MAGFest, and I feel every bit as excited about going to the next one. As judges, and somewhat community moderators, you see and hear the best and worst from most everybody. Does this change how you feel about meeting up? Do you, as established, prominent jdgfgts feel the same sort of anticipation before meetups that you used to feel?

[The Orichalcon]

Do you all have a job that has something to do with mixing or music in general ? Or is music just a hobby for you ?

I have a job assembling, programming and shipping military radios and products. As with most other judges, I'd one day like to be able to make music a fulltime career, or at least an area to profit from, but for now a job outside music is necessary to earn a living.

Also out of interest, since I live in Perth, it's both a blessing and a difficulty in that there are a lot of small jobs for musicians here, but no room to really expand into the main industry.

[Fishy]

Probably my biggest pet peeve is when first time submitters write a fuggin' novel about the remix they threw together in FL in 6 hours. They write 4 paragraphs about playing the game for the first time at age 7. They mention the names of everyone who listened to earlier drafts. They thank God, and their parents. And after all of this they suck profusely. There's nothing that calls down the fire (as far as my votes are concerned) like a longass pretentious submission email.

Terra Darko was the best submission ever.

[Awksijek]

I searched about the forums and didn't find anything related to this, so off I go.

I'm considering remixing a freeware game by the name of Trilby: The Art of Theft. How does this mesh with rules, policies and such?

Thank you. :)

[CHz]

That would be the first time I've seen a non-judge make a decision on a ReMix before. How often does that happen? Who do you go to, and why, for those situations?
GrayLightning had the idea for the feature, as far as I know. He gave spots to EdgeCrusher, Xelebes, Noir, Suzumebachi, and Xelebes again. Liontamer also gave 60 seconds of fame to Kaleb Grace and The Lady. These were all in 2005. I don't remember any other guest judging, but Larry would be in a better position to say, since he Knows and Remembers All.

It's worth pointing out that the guests didn't actually make decisions, but just registered an additional opinion on the mix at hand. You'll notice that Gray chose his guest judges based on their familiarity with the genres or instruments of the mixes.

[Palpable]

Do you all have a job that has something to do with mixing or music in general ? Or is music just a hobby for you ?

I do software stuff, and music is just a hobby. Unlike a lot of others here, I don't have any strong aspirations of making it into a full-time career. I do work on music in a lot of my spare time, making my own ReMixes, and songs with my band Flickerfall (http://flickerfall.com), but I don't actively seek out work. If the right opportunity came along, I'd definitely take it though.

[DarkeSword]

What are some of your pet peeves that submitters do?

Like JJT, I'm gonna say writing long-winded submissions emails, especially when they don't deliver the goods. I don't need a dissertation, just a few thoughts about your approach.

Another thing I really hate is when someone sends us a mix and tries to use some self-deprecating-reverse-psychology bullshit on us by saying "This probably won't get accepted anyway, but I figured I'd send it your way to get some feedback." Sorry, but we're not the WIP forum. We evaluate remixes for the site, not for your personal improvement. If you don't honestlybelieve that your remix is going to get accepted to the site, don't submit it. Every time I've been rejected from OCR (something that hasn't happened in years, but that's beside the point), I've been surprised. I have confidence in every submission I make, and if I make a remix that I don't believe would be posted to OCR, I don't submit it. It doesn't make me any less of an artist.

One last pet peeve: if you submit a song to OCR, don't use your submission email to editorialize about how you think the submissions process is full of shit, or how certain judges lack "credentials." That's just rude, and while we always strive to judge the music and not the person, that kind of bullshit is a quick ticket to a glib vote.

[Patrick Burns]

It appears that the popularity of the site and number of submissions is always steadily increasing; correct me if I'm wrong on either of those two counts. How will the submission process continue to accommodate? Will you keep adding more judges? Will you find ways to limit submissions? Will you somehow add further emphasis to the wip section?

[DarkeSword]

It appears that the popularity of the site and number of submissions is always steadily increasing; correct me if I'm wrong on either of those two counts. How will the submission process continue to accommodate? Will you keep adding more judges? Will you find ways to limit submissions? Will you somehow add further emphasis to the wip section?

We aim to add 20 new judges in the next 6-8 weeks or so. If any of you think you have what it takes, write a 100-200 word essay explaining why you would be a good judge and send to darkesword at ocremix dot org. :<

[anosou]

We aim to add 20 new judges in the next 6-8 weeks or so. If any of you think you have what it takes, write a 100-200 word essay explaining why you would be a good judge and send to darkesword at ocremix dot org. :<

Because Shariq loves a good, long essay :3 Especially when the person doesn't deliver the goods!

[DrumUltimA]

We aim to add 20 new judges in the next 6-8 weeks or so. If any of you think you have what it takes, write a 100-200 word essay explaining why you would be a good judge and send to darkesword at ocremix dot org. :<

man, you are going to regret this post

[Irregular]

For the judges: How do you determine if a song is original enough to be posted? Do you look for a certain percentage of new notes vs. the original song? Different chord progressions or style changes?

[zircon]

There's definitely no numerical or quantifiable method of determining what level of interpretation is solid enough. You can't JUST add new notes. They have to make sense within the context of the track. You might have a piece that's generally close to the source tune, but has a decent amount of melodic embellishment, some new fills and transitions, a couple new chords, and a solo section, and that might be enough to pass. On the other end of the spectrum, you might be taking a 2 second source like Pac Man and turn it into a 5 minute avante garde track.

The only numerical rule IN GENERAL, that isn't really a "rule" so much as it is a personal guideline for many of the judges, is that the track must relate to the source at LEAST 50% of the time. In other words, if more than 50% of the track is original material, that new stuff might be great, but it's not an OCR standards-complaint arrangement anymore; the majority of the material is now unrelated to the source.

In terms of what constitutes as interpretation, just about anything, really. We've written about this in our guidelines. The things we are LEAST impressed by would be simple changes of the instrumentation. That's easy to do and doesn't require much thought. Even if you took a chiptune and made it into a 4/4 dance track, if you just did a "genre adaptation" (so to speak) it probably won't pass. You need to do more than that.

[CC Ricers]

How often do you get submissions that are a sure NO, but you keep them on your iTunes/Winamps/mp3whatevers anyway and play them 100 times non-stop? Like, give a rough percentage of such. There's gotta be some remixes that you enjoy for personal tastes and reasons.

And wow, 20 new judges in 6-8 weeks! I'm pretty sure they're not all going to be active, or will they be rotating/retiring out some judges in lieu of the new ones?

[Israfel]

This question is specifically for Israfel: What happened to that OWA remix you had A WHILE ago.

I still have it. :P I don't have a webpage (and I can't be arsed to put one up) so I'll just upload it to rapidshare--hopefully that'll work okay for you.

http://rapidshare.com/files/92512178/Israfel_-_Deep_Velvet_Scherzo.mp3

On the other end of the spectrum, you might be taking a 2 second source like Pac Man and turn it into a 5 minute avante garde track.

That'd just be silly.

[JJT]

And wow, 20 new judges in 6-8 weeks! I'm pretty sure they're not all going to be active, or will they be rotating/retiring out some judges in lieu of the new ones?
Most of them will be working in the mail room.

[Ramaniscence]

This one's for JJT specifically, and any other judges to whom it may apply:

Have your woman ever live you alone for reasons of your judging?

[zircon]

How often do you get submissions that are a sure NO, but you keep them on your iTunes/Winamps/mp3whatevers anyway and play them 100 times non-stop? Like, give a rough percentage of such. There's gotta be some remixes that you enjoy for personal tastes and reasons.

Personally, off the top of my head (without being in front of my playlist) I can't think of ANY remixes that were obvious NO that I still listen to. Lots of mixes that were borderline, or that I YESed and the panel NOed, though.

[Dhsu]

This one's for JJT specifically, and any other judges to whom it may apply:

Have your woman ever live you alone for reasons of your judging?
For reason of the length of your decision drove her mad with him?

[JJT]

This one's for JJT specifically, and any other judges to whom it may apply:

Have your woman ever live you alone for reasons of your judging?


For reason of the length of your decision drove her mad with him?

Rama, my woman has lived me alone before. Not for the length of my decisions, though. Sorry dhsu. It was for reason of I had jazzed it. Multiple times, actually, over a 2 month period.

[Abadoss]

Is there supposed to be any English in those statements?

[Liontamer]

Do you all have a job that has something to do with mixing or music in general ? Or is music just a hobby for you ?
I currently work at a bookstore, but I'm trying to move into radio, music production or any other sort of audio development role due to my love of music and knowing so many artists. Nothing would be better to me than being in a position where I could lift up great musicians in the game arrangement community. For me, OCR is a hobby, but that's only because it doesn't pay anything. Besides djpretzel, I likely spend the most time working on the site.

Larry: How did they let you, a black man, onto the pannel?
It's Protricity's fault. (http://www.vgfrequency.com/how-a-russo-nigerian-stallion-found-video-game-music-part-6-joining-the-establishment/) Dunno how he feels about it nowadays, but he quickly regretted it.

This question may broach some sensitive behind-the-scenes material so I'm not expecting you guys to answer, but I was wondering why certain judges like Shnabubula, Harmony, and Israfel left or were removed from the panel. Being a hardcore theory geek, I always enjoyed reading Shnabubula's write-ups. I always wondered if perhaps he was deemed unsuitable as a judge because his feedback was too technical for most remixers? Harmony and Israfel seemed to provide a good balance between technical and more accessible comments, so they were two of my favorites as well.

Well, Israfel (lack of interest) and Harmony (lack of time) already explained their situations. Shnabubula's removal from the panel, I don't mind talking about at all, but it would take way too long to explain. That's a good idea for an extremely lengthy blog post though. His theory-centric judgments were a very small part of it. In short though, there's definitely no hard feelings though; Sam and I definitely get along great now, and it was great meeting him at MAGFest and shooting the shit, including his take on what went wrong with his time on the panel, which was all very interesting. Anyway, I'll blog about it someday.

I've noticed that most mixes get four YES/three NO before getting accepted/rejected. Others don't seem to follow that with a mix having a lot more YES or NO votes before getting accepted or rejected. How do you decide how remixes get accepted or rejected? Do you guys discuss remixes that happen to be on the line between being accepted or rejected in a separate judges forum?

If a vote is not unanimous, the vote is extended. Not that it's written down as a law, but generally any disputed vote with a gap of 3 if favor of one side is resolved (e.g. NO will result from 1Y/4N, 2Y/5N, 3Y/6N; YES from 4Y/1N, 5Y/2N, 6Y/3N).

The Judges Decisions forum shows the decisions publicly. We have a private Queue forum where we vote and discuss the tracks in their respective thread. Anything resolved is later moved to Judges Decisions.
Also, can you explain NO OVERRIDE?

DragonAvenger is not a judge, so clearly she doesn't get it. :-P But nah, she's got the gist of it, and BGC explained it as well. If something is ever placed on the judges panel and it turns out to be a clear submissions standards violation (e.g. MIDI ripped), then a judge can give a NO Override. That ends the vote without requiring every judge to weigh in, which would be redundant.

So, there's this person I want to get to know better, and get a feel for what this person is like. Find out what this person likes, more about this person's life history and what not. But, I don't know how to go about it. I was wondering if you could help me sort it out.

Cause, ya know, you said you'd help. :)
If you're scoping out this personal as a potential significant other, then ask them out on a date. Dates are the proper way of getting to know someone better; anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. Propose a date (tips and rationale on getting a date are here (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?p=327750&postcount=1038)). Then let the person dominate the conversation. That's how you learn more about someone; give them the floor and let them talk about themself.

Just FYI, I made that comic as a joke, and because I was too obsessed with Churuya at the moment :3

Then larry and I tried to act it out IRL and he didn't know what to do. I was heartbroken.
I don't recall trying to BS that I quit. I just liked the comic, so I added it to the Judging Process updates thread.

How long do you guys think are going to be around OCR?
If the site's still around and I still have the energy and interest in judging, I'll be around. Even if I was no longer a judge or staff member, I'd still check out the music.

What about after your music careers take off, will you still be as prominent?
I'd be different in that any music career wouldn't be as a musician, but I'd try to make time for the site; it's been lots of fun, so I'd rather not give it up. That being said, getting a solid career-oriented job in the games/music industry is tough to balance with OC ReMix. The Wingless was always kind of low in terms of voting frequency, but when he joined Midway, he definitely didn't have time any longer to do the job even if he wanted to.

To all of the judges: I know that as a newb to meetups, I was really excited to go to one (DC VGL!). I've only attended 2 so far, counting MAGFest, and I feel every bit as excited about going to the next one. As judges, and somewhat community moderators, you see and hear the best and worst from most everybody. Does this change how you feel about meeting up? Do you, as established, prominent jdgfgts feel the same sort of anticipation before meetups that you used to feel?

For ReMixers, I usually know their names and faces and a little bit of background on them already. So for me I can meet someone in person for the first time at MAGFest like OA and just naturally have conversation. For me, it's slightly more difficult to meet people who aren't ReMixers, and learn about some of them from scratch. But meetups make it so easy to get to know non-ReMixers in the community on a more personal level than the internet, so I always like meeting people like Jiggles McPuff (Don), Moguta (Chris), q-pa (Jon), Arrowned (Jarel), Vilecat (Val), etc.

For me, any internet drama at the forums is basically non-sequitor to a meetup. People tend not to act the same way in person. So, no, encountering the best/worst of some people beforehand doesn't affect wanting to meet someone for a meetup.

I always love the meetups. Being on staff doesn't change how I feel about attending. I'm always just glad to shoot the shit with people who love game music.

GrayLightning had the idea for the feature, as far as I know. He gave spots to EdgeCrusher, Xelebes, Noir, Suzumebachi, and Xelebes again. Liontamer also gave 60 seconds of fame to Kaleb Grace and The Lady. These were all in 2005. I don't remember any other guest judging, but Larry would be in a better position to say, since he Knows and Remembers All.

It's worth pointing out that the guests didn't actually make decisions, but just registered an additional opinion on the mix at hand. You'll notice that Gray chose his guest judges based on their familiarity with the genres or instruments of the mixes.

No worries, you definitely listed everything I remember, and I also forgot that Noir got a guest vote. That mix by Rexy that was definitely another track where I didn't understand why it wasn't resubbed, because it was definitely near the line.

We should definitely bring the guest judging thing back every once in a while. I always enjoyed the opinions brought out by those.

It appears that the popularity of the site and number of submissions is always steadily increasing; correct me if I'm wrong on either of those two counts. How will the submission process continue to accommodate? Will you keep adding more judges? Will you find ways to limit submissions? Will you somehow add further emphasis to the wip section?

Being technical, the number of subs isn't steadily increasing. It was about 1.5 subs per day, but as of 2008, it, for whatever reason, jumped to about 3 subs per day. So far, the overall proportion of at least decent material has aso increased, so the panel is getting more work. To answer the questions: 1. The panel simply needs to get back in the groove of voting. 2. No. 3. No. There's no reason to limit submissions. Though it might sound like I want fewer subs due to the workload, I would always be happy if we got more. That's always a cool thing for OCR. 4. zircon had a great WIP critique checklist of sorts that he drafted for the Works board, but we haven't put that out yet. I'm not sure why we didn't; I thought it was great, personally.

This one's for JJT specifically, and any other judges to whom it may apply:

Have your woman ever live you alone for reasons of your judging?

It was for reason of I had jazzed it up, hardman style. (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2291)

[bladiator]

Do you still love me?

[Liontamer]

Do you still love me?

It was for reason of I had jazzed it up, hardman style. (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2291)

[Hausdog]

Does djp think EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE of his songs is DP-worthy?

[big giant circles]

I'd say the author and founder of the site can DP whatever he pleases. Besides. Hillbilly Rodeo remains a standing testament that DJP is, in fact, the shit.

[Abadoss]

Does djp think EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE of his songs is DP-worthy?

I imagine it's like administrative perks. Kind of like a personal jet and a massive yacht put on the corporate budget for some business tycoon... maybe...

[Audity]

OJI WROTE "(I'll never judge on anything but headphones.)"

I hate Protricity's Battletoads remix on headphones. It's one of my favorite songs in the car, on an objective level, even. The percussion sounds completely different. I guess that still doesn't justify not using headphones to distinguish between equalization levels, unless you have a really good audio setup in some room. Actually, I thought listening like that with great monitors was the way to go, if you want to be professional about judging nonprofessional game remixes.

[jmr]

Does djp think EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE of his songs is DP-worthy?I seem to remember a mix of his being submitted to the judges. I'm pretty sure it was NO'd. I'll see if I can find the decision thread.

[Florio]

Thanks for your answers =)

Another question : does number of effects and instruments in a mix affect your judging ? I mean, yes, sometimes there are some great piano-only arrangements, but most of the time, remixes are full of effects and melodies... I may be wrong, but is it the only way for you to say "ok, this one worked a lot on his mix" ?
There are tracks that can be simple, but really catchy and effective. For example, I love some old OCremixes that I think wouldn't make it to the front page nowadays, because they're too "simple" (can't think of another word :p).

If I'm completely wrong, just say it... I haven't listened to every remixes on the site, far from it, so I'm maybe saying bullshit :oops:

[zircon]

Thanks for your answers =)

Another question : does number of effects and instruments in a mix affect your judging ? I mean, yes, sometimes there are some great piano-only arrangements, but most of the time, remixes are full of effects and melodies... I may be wrong, but is it the only way for you to say "ok, this one worked a lot on his mix" ?
There are tracks that can be simple, but really catchy and effective. For example, I love some old OCremixes that I think wouldn't make it to the front page nowadays, because they're too "simple" (can't think of another word :p).

We don't really care how much time and effort someone put into a submission, unless it's a case where they're obviously using all default loops and presets and it is especially lazy. Sounds harsh, but if you spent two years on a mix and it doesn't meet our standards, we're not going to go any easier on you.

Simplicity is definitely not a problem - we have accepted lots of solo piano remixes, as well as acoustic guitar duets. You can't get much simpler than that. But like anything else, you can make a solo instrumental piece and do it poorly.

[Palpable]

OJI WROTE "(I'll never judge on anything but headphones.)"

I hate Protricity's Battletoads remix on headphones. It's one of my favorite songs in the car, on an objective level, even. The percussion sounds completely different. I guess that still doesn't justify not using headphones to distinguish between equalization levels, unless you have a really good audio setup in some room. Actually, I thought listening like that with great monitors was the way to go, if you want to be professional about judging nonprofessional game remixes.

I almost always judge on headphones too, but I don't get the best low-bass response from them, so if a mix sounds like it might be unbalanced, I like to listen to it on my system at home. One of the mixing adages you'll see come up a lot is that you should listen to what you produce on as many different systems as you can, including low-end gear. You do occasionally get stuff like you describe, where something won't sound good on headphones but might sound great in a car. I like to listen to my own mixes on my monitors and headphones before calling them complete, and if I have the time/effort, I'll give it a listen or two on the stereo in the living room or my car.

[Abadoss]

What is the average livespan of a judge?





(I mean, how long have judges remained judges on average?)

[DarkeSword]

OJI WROTE "(I'll never judge on anything but headphones.)"

I hate Protricity's Battletoads remix on headphones. It's one of my favorite songs in the car, on an objective level, even. The percussion sounds completely different. I guess that still doesn't justify not using headphones to distinguish between equalization levels, unless you have a really good audio setup in some room. Actually, I thought listening like that with great monitors was the way to go, if you want to be professional about judging nonprofessional game remixes.

Man what is it with you and headphones?

[Arek the Absolute]

I have always had this question stirring around in my head but I never figured to ask because I felt it was stupid, but since this thread is around, I suppose this is the best chance I got to get an answer for it.

Are remixes of remixes kosher? Say for example, someone takes a song Darkesword did a year or two ago and remixes it and actually does a really great job and submits it.

What are your opinions on that?

[zircon]

As far as I know we only have one posted remix that is a "remix of a remix", so to speak. I think that would be tough today; it's ok to quote someone else's remix (eg. using a bit of the original material they used) but I'd say it would be tricky otherwise.. we'd have to evaluate what you added and really did differently.

What is the average livespan of a judge?

(I mean, how long have judges remained judges on average?)

It's hard to say since some people have stayed onboard since they were added, and others left (or were removed) within about a year. It's definitely variable and it completely depends on the person and what their situation is. Some people simply do not have time, even though they have the desire. Others might have some spare time, but they've burned out and judging isn't as rewarding as it once was.

[Liontamer]

I have always had this question stirring around in my head but I never figured to ask because I felt it was stupid, but since this thread is around, I suppose this is the best chance I got to get an answer for it.

Are remixes of remixes kosher? Say for example, someone takes a song Darkesword did a year or two ago and remixes it and actually does a really great job and submits it.

What are your opinions on that?

Why are you typing with proper capitalization and punctuation in this thread, but then:

"look kid dont take this the wrong way but i dont care about mario and halo together so stop being rude and immature k"

...basically typing this holier-than-thou trolling nonsense in another thread. What did I tell you? I'm gonna have to kick your ass later.

Ugh. Anyway. ReMixes of ReMixes are fine, they're just judged in a tougher manner. Section 6, Part 5 of the standards (http://www.ocremix.org/info/Submission_Standards_and_Instructions) covers this. That rule is more to discourage ReMixers from submitting mere production upgrades of their older mixes. But we're always open to ReMixing (i.e. substantively interpreting) a previous ReMix or other arrangement as long as there are enough ties to the original game music the existing mix is based off of.

Following up zircon's post, we've actually got 2 (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00704/) ReMixes (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01251/) of (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00620/) ReMixes (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00763/).

Yeah, judges come and go, and there's definitely no normal length of time they stay on board. Even I don't keep track of average time on the panel. But we've had many on board less than 1 year, and then you have guys like Vigilante (nearly 5 years) and myself (nearly 4 years) who have been on for a dog's age without stepping down for a hiatus. I'm proud to say that I've voted on 99% of everything put in front of me.

Just going with my initial feeling, not looking at any names or lists, most Js tend to give somewhere in the realm of 2 years. Like zircon mentioned, stepping down is pretty much gonna be either lack of time despite interest, or lack of interest despite time, as the job can wear on anybody. If you want a job that pays $0, takes up a fair amount of time if you dig into it, where some will trash your qualifications, your character, and your objectivity, and where the workload NEVER lets up no matter how hard you work, it can eventually cease to be personally fulfilling. For me though, I'm not even close to that point. :lol:

[Abadoss]

I was actually speaking mathmatically... like, literally, what's the average?

[Hausdog]

1 year, 9 months, 5 days, 17 hours and 22 minutes.

[JJT]

I was actually speaking mathmatically... like, literally, what's the average?
You must possess zero social grace.

Even I don't keep track of average time on the panel.

IN OTHER WORDS STOP ASKING THIS QUESTION.

[Hausdog]

STOP ASKING THIS QUESTION.


Chill out. Fortunately for Abadoss, I HAVE been keeping track and I gave him the actual average. :<

[Dhsu]

Why are you typing with proper capitalization and punctuation in this thread, but then:

"look kid dont take this the wrong way but i dont care about mario and halo together so stop being rude and immature k"

...basically typing this holier-than-thou trolling nonsense in another thread. What did I tell you? I'm gonna have to kick your ass later.
Why are you bringing this into a completely unrelated thread? He can punctuate and capitalize if wants? :?

ReMixes of ReMixes are fine, they're just judged in a tougher manner. Section 6, Part 5 of the standards (http://www.ocremix.org/info/Submission_Standards_and_Instructions) covers this. That rule is more to discourage ReMixers from submitting mere production upgrades of their older mixes. But we're always open to ReMixing (i.e. substantively interpreting) a previous ReMix or other arrangement as long as there are enough ties to the original game music the existing mix is based off of.
Would analoq's arrangement of Incredible Singing Robot pass if it were submitted here?

[JJT]

Chill out. Fortunately for Abadoss, I HAVE been keeping track and I gave him the actual average. :<
Bully for you.

[Liontamer]

1 year, 9 months, 5 days, 17 hours and 22 minutes.

*SMACK*

Why are you bringing this into a completely unrelated thread? He can punctuate and capitalize if wants? :?
I'm a mod. I can off-top ANYTHING I WANT. In all seriousness, I just think it's a double standard how he interacts with people he perceives as higher than him on the food chain, but for the purposes of trolling a n00b, he switches to off-putting, lazy internet speak.

Would analoq's arrangement of Incredible Singing Robot pass if it were submitted here?

As is, no in my opinion. If the drums weren't on auto-pilot, the track would feel a lot more cohesive. The point of it seemed to just be a quick mix though, so on that level I wouldn't change a thing. The style/presentation seems different enough to me, but that would be up to the panel at large in confirming that.

[cobaltstarfire]

I'm a mod. I can off-top ANYTHING I WANT. In all seriousness, I just think it's a double standard how he interacts with people he perceives as higher than him on the food chain, but for the purposes of trolling a n00b, he switches to off-putting, lazy internet speak.

He's told me before that the only time he really talks with good grammar and stuff is when he's being particularly serious about something, otherwise he's going to type all crazy like.

I mean, I don't think he has any great disrespect for me, and when I've interacted with him in clanOCR he talked in "lazy internet speak" unless he was sending me a semi series private message. (He types all cryptically most the time it seems to me anyway...)

[Liontamer]

He's told me before that the only time he really talks with good grammar and stuff is when he's being particularly serious about something, otherwise he's going to type all crazy like.

He needs to "seriously" stop trolling people. He's so bad at it, he ruins it for the rest of the forums.

[analoq]

Virtually rejected before I even considered submitting? I'm washed-up like a cliché simile.

[ifirit]

Considering the answer(s) given in regards to NO OVERRIDEs, can you explain YES OVERRIDEs?

Additionally, how are ReMixes for games that use "dynamic music" evaluated in regards to comparing the two, i.e. games where the arrangement of the music in-game is compiled in response to the gamer's actions and thus fluxuates on every playthrough? (See Halo: Combat Evolved, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy, etc.) Does the panel refer to composer/arranger arrangements from CD/commercial releases, or is there another method for comparison?

Are arrangements of VGM from non-VGM sources suitable for submission to OCR? (See The Legend of Zelda animated series, Silent Hill the movie, Orchestral Games Concert/Video Games Live/PLAY! A Videogame Symphony, etc.)

Certain games contain music on the physical medium, but are never actually used in the game itself, which is sometimes the case for PC and other CD-ROM titles. Are ReMixes of these unreleased "hidden tracks" a violation of the current submission standards? (See "Singing Mountain (http://www.ocremix.org/song/id/63/)" from Chrono Trigger, various PSOne Titles, "Heads No. 1" from Silent Hill 3, etc.) Personally, there is still some obscurity regarding this issue as I'm not sure if the panel distinguishes "...used in the game..." between physically present and executed via operation.

[zircon]

Considering the answer(s) given in regards to NO OVERRIDEs, can you explain YES OVERRIDEs?

There's no such thing as a YES override, only a direct post, which doesn't really compare to a N.O. which the panel technically evaluates.

Additionally, how are ReMixes for games that use "dynamic music" evaluated in regards to comparing the two, i.e. games where the arrangement of the music in-game is compiled in response to the gamer's actions and thus fluxuates on every playthrough? (See Halo: Combat Evolved, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy, etc.) Does the panel refer to composer/arranger arrangements from CD/commercial releases, or is there another method for comparison?

No real difference in how they're evaluated. We'll listen to the source material however we can, either via the OST or through YouTube. We would simply need to hear exactly what the remixer is arranging and then compare their remix to that material.

Are arrangements of VGM from non-VGM sources suitable for submission to OCR? (See The Legend of Zelda animated series, Silent Hill the movie, Orchestral Games Concert/Video Games Live/PLAY! A Videogame Symphony, etc.)

It's not VGM if it wasn't originally written for a game. For example, incidental music in the LoZ series that was not in the games do not qualify as "VGM" even though the series is about a video game character. We spell that out pretty clearly in our guidelines.

Unless you're asking if an arrangement of VGM made for something like VGL or Play could qualify as an OC ReMix, in which case, sure, there's no problem in evaluating that. You can make a remix for whatever reason you want and it won't impact our judging.

Certain games contain music on the physical medium, but are never actually used in the game itself, which is sometimes the case for PC and other CD-ROM titles. Are ReMixes of these unreleased "hidden tracks" a violation of the current submission standards? (See "Singing Mountain" from Chrono Trigger, various PSOne Titles, "Heads No. 1" from Silent Hill 3, etc.) Personally, there is still some obscurity regarding this issue as I'm not sure if the panel distinguishes "...used in the game..." between physically present and executed via operation.

Considering we have remixes of Singing Mountain, it's safe to say that this is acceptable. It just needs to be present in the original game code somewhere; eg. Singing Mountain was on the CT cart even though it wasn't technically used in the playable game.

[Dafydd]

A few pages back I read something about how most submissions given a "no resubmit" never are resubmitted. I agree it's a shame. I'm one of those mixers who never resubmitted, despite the fact that the things that needed changing were really quick fixes, and here's my story. Please remember, I'm not trying to attack or blame anyone here.

I sat for 2 weeks doing nothing but making that remix. I was in a finals period, and I think think the main reason why I was able to sit down and work on my mix, and do nothing else, for such a long time was because I was subconsciously trying to escape what I really should be diong - study. Well - I sat day and night with this thing, listening to it constantly in my mp3 player whenever I had to leave home to go shopping or something. I tried to get in touch with several judges, and managed to get two of them to listen to it. Neither really had any complaints, one of them none at all. Since I had already submitted the song, all I could do was wait (but I kept modifying it a little every so often since I noticed it hadn't reached the panel yet). Once the song reached the panel, I waited... and I waited... and waited... wai... zzz.

When enough judges (the two I had let listen to it in advance were not among them) had finally voted on my submission, I read the decision thread. Some of the issues that the judges had I didn't really see what they meant by, but most of them were valid, I guess. The problem was that

a) The issues were mostly production related. I can tell that my music doesn't really sound as good as other mixes, or other music, does, because I suck at the production parts of remixing. Like I said, I can hear when it doesn't sound good, but I have no idea how to fix it. So I tried to get help in the forum, but none of the comments were very helpful. Sure, you can tell someone to fiddle with the EQ and play with compressors and stuff, but for me, the more I play with the settings, the worse it gets. When I play with an EQ, it always just sounds "different", never "better". I hear the frequencies getting louder of fainter, but I never get it to sound like I'd really want it to. I'd need someone to do the production for me, and I was unable to find anyone to help me as much as I needed them to.

b) After having not touched the mix for several months, when I finally got the verdict, I had lost the will to keep working on the mix. To me, it wasn't perfect, but it was finished and done. I had moved on to other things and couldn't, however much I tried, muster the will to get back working on it. I suffer from most of the symptoms that people with ADD have - if I'm not in the mood to do something, I won't do it, even if I actually "want" to (I know it sounds completely ridiculous to someone who doesn't have it, but there it is). I know this is in no way the judges' problem, and that they are not to blame for any of this, and I certainly don't want or expect them to take any of what I'm writing now into consideration when voting on my or others' future mixes, but to me there seems to be a great number of people in this community who have difficulties finishing what they start, judging from how few people post something in the WiP forum and who don't just leave it as a WiP forever, and a shorter queue would probably result in less people having the above problem with lost interest in their previously submitted remix.

There, I'm done with my rant. Remember, I don't want to complain, I'm trying to explain.

BTW, does DJP submit stuff or does he direct post his own mixes without consulting the panel? Has anything he made been "rejected"?

[Thin Crust]

If a remix has source tunes of two different games (Metal Gear May Cry (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00690/), Knights Come Marching Home (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00317/)) How do you decide which game the remix will be categorized under?

[zircon]

If a remix has source tunes of two different games (Metal Gear May Cry (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00690/), Knights Come Marching Home (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00317/)) How do you decide which game the remix will be categorized under?

"Metal Gear May Cry" only had one source, it was just in the style of DMC.

For any remix with sources from multiple games, we generally pick the game with the most dominant source usage, as far as I know.

BTW, does DJP submit stuff or does he direct post his own mixes without consulting the panel? Has anything he made been "rejected"?

The vast majority of the time, I believe he just direct posts his mixes. I think there may have been one time when something of his got rejected, but I can't remember the situation.

[DarkeSword]

"Metal Gear May Cry" only had one source, it was just in the style of DMC.

For any remix with sources from multiple games, we generally pick the game with the most dominant source usage, as far as I know.



The vast majority of the time, I believe he just direct posts his mixes. I think there may have been one time when something of his got rejected, but I can't remember the situation.

No, we removed one of his mixes during lockdown because the source music wasn't originally from a video game, but from the Sailor Moon anime.

Dave never posts anything of his own to the panel.

[zyko]

A few pages back I read something about how most submissions given a "no resubmit" never are resubmitted. I agree it's a shame. I'm one of those mixers who never resubmitted, despite the fact that the things that needed changing were really quick fixes, and here's my story. Please remember, I'm not trying to attack or blame anyone here.


well for starters, i'm not a fan of NO Resub for this exact reason. i, myself, hardly ever resubmit something let alone even revisit it. i honestly feel that it is a matter of principle... some artists are the type that love to address a WIP over and over again and some are not. once ive decided something is final... it takes a lot more than a third party suggestion to undo that.




a) The issues were mostly production related.

unfortunately, a huge part of our standard is in production quality. i was mortally opposed to this for several years including the first two of my panelhood... i was just fundamentally against judging music based on the technical aspects of it when we are an amateur scene remixing videogame music... something about it seemed counterintuitive to turn someone away because of EQ.

however, my stance on this changed and not so ironically as i got better at mixing and producing my own music. when i stopped having my shit rejected because it was mixed with shit or produced with my eyes and ears shut, i realized that presentation quality does a lot for the audience; it is sort of like a musical first impression... if something is hard to get into, it won't be explored to the extent that its creative genius may have otherwise commanded and deserved.

my only suggestion is to keep doi what you're doin. what ends up happening, inevitably, is that it'll be a subconscious move towards a better sounding production, anyways



b) After having not touched the mix for several months, when I finally got the verdict, I had lost the will to keep working on the mix. To me, it wasn't perfect, but it was finished and done.

haha =)
you and me both, brother
check this out for peace of mind, though: that is what makes artistic creation so fun (for lack of a more telling word). i no longer get caught up on what you're referring to because i know something else is coming after it. as i was saying earlier, not everbody has that sort of practical, functional approach to their music... "sure, i'll just go dig it up and tweak this, this n that" - to me it is an entirely ridiculous behavior. i firmly believe that when an artist decides something is done, it most likely is... complete with all the idiosyncracies and ingrown hangnails. i don't think it has anything to do with a deficit in attention... it most likely is what it is

something about the run of creativity juice expired when the track was finished the first time :)



BTW, does DJP submit stuff or does he direct post his own mixes without consulting the panel? Has anything he made been "rejected"?

yea and hardly ever. i can't even remember the one time that i think it did. then again, wouldnt' you want our fearless leader to bask in the pleasures of life?

[DarkeSword]

We aim to add 20 new judges in the next 6-8 weeks or so. If any of you think you have what it takes, write a 100-200 word essay explaining why you would be a good judge and send to darkesword at ocremix dot org. :<

Kind of disappointed nobody actually sent me anything for this. Looks like our judgecount is going to stay low this summer. :whatevaa:

[Hum4n After All]

Is McVaffe gonna make any more bad ass ReMixes?

[Liontamer]

Is McVaffe gonna make any more bad ass ReMixes?

Gonna need a Magic 8-Ball for that...

[/shaky shaky]

"Better not tell you now" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_8-Ball#Standard_answers)

[Dafydd]

Kind of disappointed nobody actually sent me anything for this. Looks like our judgecount is going to stay low this summer. :whatevaa:

I don't think anyone took that seriously... and I think I still don't :neutral:

[Ciel]

I was wondering which mixes on OCR are some of the most professionally produced, and what kind of gap there is between the general quality of those mixes and actual industry sound engineering/production.

[Dafydd]

Well... Jeremy Soule is an actual game music composer, so his remix should be pretty high quality, but I really wouldn't know. Some of the worst produced songs are likely found among the oldest on the site. What units would you want the gap measured in? Or do you prefer an adjective? Such as "considerable"? That answer will have to suffice until one of the judges come around :smile:

[The Pezman]

Dates are the proper way of getting to know someone better; anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.
The only problem is I've seen and heard of example after example otherwise, and almost none to validate your opinion. Andy and Jill, to cite one we both know.

My parents did meet through a personals ad, so perhaps traditional dating exists outside of a college/high school mentality. But apart from my parents no one I know has said to someone they met for the first time, "Hey, let's go have dinner, talk to one another, and then, if we're both willing, exist in a nebulous state where we can make out with each other but still not be 'in a relationship.'"

Hookups, on the other hand, are becoming more common.


As a new generation of gamers who are not as familiar with 0ld sk00l grows up, do you think that the nature of music submitted here will change? Or will this site cater to old fogies who sit in rocking chairs and reminisce about the glory days?

Similarly, with game music becoming more orchestrally sweeping and less melody-oriented (and therefore, in most peoples' opinions, less remixable), how do you think OCR can (or should) address this trend?

[Sil]

Similarly, with game music becoming more orchestrally sweeping and less melody-oriented (and therefore, in most peoples' opinions, less remixable), how do you think OCR can (or should) address this trend?
I don't think game music is becoming less melody-oriented, it's just becoming harder and harder to midi-rip. For example, the soundtrack to Lair had some awesome melodies that I'm sure people would be more inclined to remix if they heard it played by two 8-bit synth pads.

Maybe the newest trend should be reducing fully orchestral scores into chiptunes. You could call it "unmixing."

[DarkeSword]

I don't think game music is becoming less melody-oriented, it's just becoming harder and harder to midi-rip. For example, the soundtrack to Lair had some awesome melodies that I'm sure people would be more inclined to remix if they heard it played by two 8-bit synth pads.

Maybe the newest trend should be reducing fully orchestral scores into chiptunes. You could call it "unmixing."

Yeah, we don't really accept those. :P

[The Pezman]

www.underclockedmix.org

Get on it.

[Liontamer]

So, there's this person I want to get to know better, and get a feel for what this person is like. Find out what this person likes, more about this person's life history and what not. But, I don't know how to go about it. I was wondering if you could help me sort it out.

Cause, ya know, you said you'd help. :)

If you're scoping out this personal as a potential significant other, then ask them out on a date. Dates are the proper way of getting to know someone better; anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. Propose a date (tips and rationale on getting a date are here (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?p=327750&postcount=1038)). Then let the person dominate the conversation. That's how you learn more about someone; give them the floor and let them talk about themself.

The only problem is I've seen and heard of example after example otherwise, and almost none to validate your opinion. Andy and Jill, to cite one we both know.

My parents did meet through a personals ad, so perhaps traditional dating exists outside of a college/high school mentality. But apart from my parents no one I know has said to someone they met for the first time, "Hey, let's go have dinner, talk to one another, and then, if we're both willing, exist in a nebulous state where we can make out with each other but still not be 'in a relationship.'"

Hookups, on the other hand, are becoming more common.

Hookups aren't more common, they're just less taboo, so you hear of them more.

Are you saying people typically don't go on dates nowadays? Because that's the only point I made.

No matter how people meet (a hookup, a class, a frat party, a mutual activity, a dating service, a club), most couples end up getting their true start at learning about one another with actual dates. Andy and Jill's relationship progressed because they visited one another and went out in real life, not because they can use IRC. The internet was just how they happened to meet each other. But none of that replaces actually spending quality time getting to know about the other person. If you can't do dates, then guess what? You're doing it all wrong.

[zircon]

Not to derail the thread too much further, but let me just lay out exactly how Jill and I met/"dated" so there's no confusion :) We actually MET and interacted for the first time in person, at the 2005 NYC meetup. After that, we spoke online to each other on a fairly regularly basis. We started doing VGDJ together several months later which required a lot of talking via phone/skype and IM. In the process we met up in person four times for days at a time. We didn't consider at any point that we were "dating", but the effect was definitely the same in that we were really getting to know each other. We spent a good amount of time alone together, went out to eat, etc. But again, the (unspoken) understanding was that it was non-romantic, and that we were friends & co-hosts.

The fifth time (total) that we met up in person, Jill was up in NY visiting for a "host-only meetup". Prior to this my feelings for her were definitely growing beyond just friends, but I didn't think it was realistic, so I didn't act on them. Of course, as it turns out, she was feeling the exact same way. She ended up hinting at it over lunch one day, when she seemed unusually happy in response to a comment I made that "it would be great if we [people on OCR] could all move to the same area after college." She refused to tell me why she was smiling so much after I said that, but at the very end of the day I worked up the courage to say "Did you mean you and I... dating?" (word-for-word)

The rest is history. When we look back at it, we look at that day as the point where we actually became a couple, because in a sense we really had been "dating" before that, just without any romantic overtones. I wouldn't change a thing, even if given the chance. It was great for us to get to know each other and have fun doing VGDJ without any sort of pressure. We felt really comfortable with each other by the time I officially "asked her out" (so to speak.)

So, I don't know if this really validates or invalidates what Larry is saying, but that's the abbreviated story for you :)

[Jillian Aversa]

(^o^)

......... (^o^)

[DarkeSword]

Ewwwwwwwwwwww

[Liontamer]

So, I don't know if this really validates or invalidates what Larry is saying, but that's the abbreviated story for you :)
Oh don't worry, it definitely validates what I was saying. Gotta get that 1-on-1 time in and learn about one another in person. I dunno what other method Jeremy is suggesting for effectively doing the same thing.

[The Pezman]

Well, if what you're saying isn't incompatible with a "friends first" philosophy (and, rather, you get to know the person as a friend, decide you like them, and then continue to get to know them by going out) then I think there was just a big misunderstanding. What I've known dating to mean is when people meet and talk FOR THE FIRST TIME in a one-on-one scenario with overtones of further intimacy. I think that, as a concept, is dying. At the very least, I don't know anyone my age who finds an SO that way.

To get us back on track, answers to my music questions?

[Liontamer]

Well, if what you're saying isn't incompatible with a "friends first" philosophy (and, rather, you get to know the person as a friend, decide you like them, and then continue to get to know them by going out) then I think there was just a big misunderstanding.

Lemme clarify. If you meet a girl, you want to pursue a romantic relationship from the start, and you try "friends first", that's stupid and only works in films. It's stupid to suppress what you're actually after and have the girl classify you as "just a friend." That's basic Ladder Theory and wholeheartedly against a "friends first" philosophy.

For the following, keep in mind this is because you're honestly not interested, not because you're bullshitting with "friends first" and hiding your interest. In zircon's case, and also my own, if you meet a girl and you're not pursuing a romantic relationship with her, then it's more than fine to be friends. But if and when you realize that you now want to pursue a romantic relationship, AND you get legitimate signals from her that she wants the same (very rare, and usually something guys don't realize is required for this to work), the friend dynamic from you then needs to be dropped in favor of dating.

What I've known dating to mean is when people meet and talk FOR THE FIRST TIME in a one-on-one scenario with overtones of further intimacy. I think that, as a concept, is dying. At the very least, I don't know anyone my age who finds an SO that way.
I don't know of anyone of any age who finds someone that way. No, dating is just the courting process after you've decided to pursue a romantic relationship. It doesn't matter when, where, how or how often you've met the other person. Not to sound insulting, but meeting and talking for the first time as a date is a blind date, clearly not understood as typical dating, but a subclass of dating.

To get us back on track, answers to my music questions?

Ok.

As a new generation of gamers who are not as familiar with 0ld sk00l grows up, do you think that the nature of music submitted here will change? Or will this site cater to old fogies who sit in rocking chairs and reminisce about the glory days?
Yeah, I think the nature of the submitted music has the potential to change. Many people born in the late 80s and early 90s probably got started in the 4th generation of consoles, while some younger kids that you may hear in the next 2-3 years started gaming in the 5th generation of consoles. Still, with retrogaming so strong nowadays with it going legit, I don't think people getting into ReMixing the classics will die off.

Similarly, with game music becoming more orchestrally sweeping and less melody-oriented (and therefore, in most peoples' opinions, less remixable), how do you think OCR can (or should) address this trend?
Retrogaming covers this somewhat, so the more melodic older stuff should still get some attention.

Also, every time I have even minor doubts about the resourcefulness of the community, they collectively come out with some good interpretive material. So on that level, working with music into the 6th generation of consoles and beyond shouldn't be a problem that dramatically messes with the amount of ReMixes we'll receive. It'll be prohibitive to a significant amount of musicians due to a lack of MIDIs compared to older games, but I think we'll be OK.

[OverCoat]

Yeah, we don't really accept those [chiptune'd modern game songs]. :P

I kind of wish you did :(

There's that one SID tune by Mazedude (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01469/), but that's like... 2 sid chips at once? so it doesn't really count? also: lol at zircon saying it's not technically a chiptune. Though I have plenty of old posts with embarrassingly incorrect shit in them myself.

So am I to understand that if I make a chiptune arrangement of a streaming audio tune [that is, stuff like redbook audio and mp3], all I gotta do is slap some DSP on it and it'll be all good to submit?

This vexes me, as I dislike DSP and I set sample interpolation to off :V

then again, hurrrrr off to vgmix I go :D

[Dafydd]

www.underclockedmix.org (http://www.underclockedmix.org)

Get on it.

I've been close on a few occasions, but realized I wouldn't have the time to run something like that. I suggested a chiptune competition a while ago but it'll fallen off the edge of the forum. All that's left of it is this (http://8-bit.ngst.nu)...

[zircon]

I kind of wish you did :(

There's that one SID tune by Mazedude (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01469/), but that's like... 2 sid chips at once? so it doesn't really count? also: lol at zircon saying it's not technically a chiptune. Though I have plenty of old posts with embarrassingly incorrect shit in them myself.

Just because that mix uses C64 sounds doesn't make it a chiptune. It is more full than a .SID could be by itself.

[danimal cannon]

I prefer broader use of the word chiptune as a genre of new original music meant to sound like old FM synths.

I would qualify your definition by calling them "authentic chiptunes" with ones that only use a single SID.

[Dafydd]

They don't all use FM synths, you know. Some use other synths, and some use samples. Some even use the PC speaker.

[Dhsu]

They don't all use FM synths, you know. Some use other synths, and some use samples. Some even use the PC speaker.
Well, by definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiptune) chiptunes don't use samples (unless you count noise channels I guess?). Otherwise you could start referring to PS2 and GameCube music as "chiptunes," which is ridiculous. In fact, that's actually been brought up before on this forum...

[danimal cannon]

Well whatever, I do recognize the difference between a Disasterpeace song and an authentic C64 chip. However, I'm still going to call that Disasterpeace song a chiptune because its just way easier to classify it like that.

[Dafydd]

Well, by definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiptune) chiptunes don't use samples (unless you count noise channels I guess?). Otherwise you could start referring to PS2 and GameCube music as "chiptunes," which is ridiculous. In fact, that's actually been brought up before on this forum...

What, NES and SNES songs doesn't count as chiptunes? I sit corrected.

[The Pezman]

Lemme clarify. If you meet a girl, you want to pursue a romantic relationship from the start
I don't understand how someone could do that. I can't look at a girl and decide I want to date her. At the very least I need to talk to her a few times so I can discover more about her. At that point I think we're considered friends. Then, once I know enough about her to decide that yes, I do like her, I continue to talk to her and see whether it will evolve into something more as it did for you, Andy, and every other non-single friend I know.


Does R:TS or VGMix accept chiptunes?

[OverCoat]

Does R:TS or VGMix accept chiptunes?

Yes, and download Espergirl 2AO3 (http://remix.thasauce.net/song/RTS0004/)while you're at R:TS

[Lanodantheon]

Getting the thread back on track....

Several judges have been vocal about not wanting dissertations and/or acceptance speeches for the Oscars or the Nobel Prize. So, what is an acceptable write up in terms of length and content? Aside from technical data and other arbitrary information, you want the Remixer's approach and this can vary in length. But, how long is too long and how short is too short? From what I can tell, you don't want "Making of.." Malarkey, you want to know why you did what you did.

From what I read, you don't want this: "This is a remix of favorite song in the whole wide world... It's dedicated Hiroki Kurata, whom I met at a convention. He waved at me, then I waved back, then I tried to cut in line and got beaten by secrity...BLAH BLAH BLAH... THe appraoch I used is a Counterpoint Technique I read about in this book on the Baroque era....BLAH BLAH BLAH...I wanted to use sonata allegro form, but I think it's just stupid...BLAH BLAH BLAH."

From what I read, you want something like this:
"This remix is based off the premise, 'What music would you play when the Mana Fortress comes out? When everything stops cold and everything is nuts? Then, it goes all Death Star and kills everybody?' So that's what I did. It starts with Color of the Summer Sky, then moves to Star of Darkness then into a mixture of the Mana Tree all screwed up. The last part with the syntethic choir was meant to be a thousand voices that cried out int terror and are suddenly silenced. Hope you enjoy it."

That one might even be too long now that I think of it.
I may have answered my own question while typing this but, I believe that other people need crystal clear answers with no exceptions when it comes to questions like this. Last thing submitters want to do is bore the judges to death. :)!!

Second question: Do you ever find yourself NOing a submission because you don't like that kind of song? "Not more Opera-metal Megaman...." Or even the song that's been remixed? You know, "Not another Fing version of,'Terra' from FF6..." Unless it had lyrics and vocals or something....

[zircon]

I think 5-8 sentences of actual commentary on the mix is acceptable, maybe more if there's a really interesting story. Of course, if you don't have anything to say, you don't need to say anything... don't just put stuff down for the sake of having comments posted with your mix. I personally like to hear any unusual or unique details about the production of the mix, as well as a simple explanation of what setup was used to make it (eg. FL, Cubase, Reason, hardware workstation.) If the mix was inspired by a specific song, artist, or style, I think that is good to put also.

Second question: Do you ever find yourself NOing a submission because you don't like that kind of song? "Not more Opera-metal Megaman...." Or even the song that's been remixed? You know, "Not another Fing version of,'Terra' from FF6..." Unless it had lyrics and vocals or something....

Inevitably this has a subconscious influence, but we do our best to not let it really affect us. If something is really just uncreative compared to existing OCR remixes on the site, I might be harder on it, but that doesn't come up much.

[Liontamer]

Several judges have been vocal about not wanting dissertations and/or acceptance speeches for the Oscars or the Nobel Prize.
Doesn't matter what it is, I read them all. I don't mind when we receive lengthy submissions letters.

Second question: Do you ever find yourself NOing a submission because you don't like that kind of song? "Not more Opera-metal Megaman...." Or even the song that's been remixed? You know, "Not another Fing version of,'Terra' from FF6..." Unless it had lyrics and vocals or something....
Nah, that's a bad reason to NO a submission. Like zircon said, personal preference is just one potential bias we have to put aside.

Lemme clarify. If you meet a girl, you want to pursue a romantic relationship from the start

I don't understand how someone could do that. I can't look at a girl and decide I want to date her.

That's what intense physical attraction is. When you first meet someone, you mentally size them up. There aren't really many exceptions. If they pass your physical attraction test, they're potential dating material. That doesn't mean you'll necessarily try to move forward with that (especially if you have no other info to go on). I'm just saying that based on physical looks only, you quickly lump the person into either yes or no on whether they're potentially date-able. You're doing this whether you realize it or not.

At the very least I need to talk to her a few times so I can discover more about her.

That's fine, that's what you should do. I certainly haven't said otherwise. You yourself just don't want to use dates for that; that's also fine. Many people though will ask girls out just off the physical attraction test, using dates as a forum for learning more about them and deciding if it'll go anywhere. To many, beauty is a very compelling factor; enough so, that they don't need more info than to pursue something romantic. They'll fill in the blanks later.

At that point I think we're considered friends. Then, once I know enough about her to decide that yes, I do like her, I continue to talk to her and see whether it will evolve into something more as it did for you, Andy, and every other non-single friend I know.

There's nothing wrong with being friends when you're not compelled to want a romantic relationship with that person. But once you truly know you want to pursue a relationship, you have to drop the pretense of friendship now that your feelings have changed, and you ask the person out on a date. That's where most guys makes the wrong decision and stay the friend, not wanting to rock the boat.

Under no circumstances should you continue playing the role of the friend and suppressing your own interest after you know you'd want to date the person. When you act as a friend despite wanting more, you're basically saying to a girl "Don't think of me as a romantic interest. We don't have those kind of interactions."

[BardicKnowledge]

So, when are we going to see all of this wonderful data be made into a blog post? :p

[Florio]

Just wanted to say I love the parallel discussions in this topic.

[Abadoss]

Larry, how do you get to know a girl who doesn't exist because you've got standards up the wazoo? :P

[Ramaniscence]

There's nothing wrong with being friends when you're not compelled to want a romantic relationship with that person. But once you truly know you want to pursue a relationship, you have to drop the pretense of friendship now that your feelings have changed, and you ask the person out on a date. That's where most guys makes the wrong decision and stay the friend, not wanting to rock the boat.

Oh but sir, I beg to differ. (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=4698532&blogID=363944095&Mytoken=F5A86D0E-4FED-4E59-A8F1FEBDA967D7D391478499)

But that's another discussion entirely.

[Liontamer]

Oh but sir, I beg to differ. (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=4698532&blogID=363944095&Mytoken=F5A86D0E-4FED-4E59-A8F1FEBDA967D7D391478499)

But that's another discussion entirely.

Nah, I'm right. Besides, we're not really discussing the same topic.

The only thought I had walking away from your blog post, Doug, was "Man, he sure knows how to pick 'em."

[Jillian Aversa]

OCReSex in the City

[JJT]

Oh but sir, I beg to differ. (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=4698532&blogID=363944095&Mytoken=F5A86D0E-4FED-4E59-A8F1FEBDA967D7D391478499)

But that's another discussion entirely.

uh, that one goes both ways. if you wanna put it all on girls though, go for it.

[zyko]

so how did this thread turn into a love advice one, again?

=)

[Liontamer]

so how did this thread turn into a love advice one, again?

=)

I offered it in the first post; I knew it would be fun!

I'll also answer relationship questions, because some of you guys need a shitload of help. :lol:

Yeah, Off-Top has that advice thread, but watching most of those guys in action is like the blind leading the blind.

[zyko]

I offered it in the first post; I knew it would be fun!

Yeah, Off-Top has that advice thread, but watching most of those guys in action is like the blind leading the blind.

i suppose we do have a few credentialed studs on the panel, come to think of it...

[Hausdog]

Really? Where?
*flinches instinctively*

[anosou]

Really? Where?
*flinches instinctively*

*flexes stud muscles*

[Dhsu]

Yeah, Off-Top has that advice thread, but watching most of those guys in action is like the blind leading the blind.
And now everyone who read Intellectual Whores thinks he's an expert. :roll:

[Liontamer]

And now everyone who read Intellectual Whores thinks he's an expert. :roll:

Don't be stupid. Ladder Theory just explains some aspects of attractions and relationships, it doesn't tell you HOW to actually do a good job in a relationship. I never even heard of Ladder Theory until 4 years after getting my shit straight. Nonetheless, it's great, and pretty much all true, albeit stating things in a different way.

[Sengin]

*flexes stud muscles*

THAT would be called the Kegel exercises

[Dhsu]

Don't be stupid. Ladder Theory just explains some aspects of attractions and relationships, it doesn't tell you HOW to actually do a good job in a relationship. I never even heard of Ladder Theory until 4 years after getting my shit straight. Nonetheless, it's great, and pretty much all true, albeit stating things in a different way.
You edited your post to call me stupid? :nicework:

[Abadoss]

Ah, the joys of being overlooked...

[Platinum Azure]

We aim to add 20 new judges in the next 6-8 weeks or so. If any of you think you have what it takes, write a 100-200 word essay explaining why you would be a good judge and send to darkesword at ocremix dot org. :<
Hey, if you're actually serious, I'm considering sending something... only I have a whopping five posts here, maybe. And no ReMixing, but that's due to lack of tools... haha. I do have a ridiculously good ear, though, and enough theory background to get by.

The thing is, normally, I wouldn't send anything with that little qualification, but I have no idea when this will be done again and if there's any chance of getting a toe in the door... you know?

But you're probably joking anyway. If not, though, care to tell me what you think? >_>

[The Pezman]

Since I do post a music question every time I respond, I don't feel guilty about "derailing" the thread.
Nonetheless, it's great, and pretty much all true
Your argument still appears to have contradictions in it. Wikipedia describes Ladder Theory as such:
LT thus presumes that a platonic friendship between a man and a woman, in practice, lowers rather than increases the likelihood that the relationship will develop into a sexual one, due to the greater perceived tendency of women to maintain strong separation between relationship types. As a result, the initial decision-making process on how a particular relationship is to be classified is considered vital to understand. This process of classification and ranking is described as a "ladder".

LT argues that heterosexual women categorize men into either "possible sexual partners" (sometimes called the "Potential" ladder) or "nonsexual acquaintances" (sometimes called the "Never" ladder). Each category has a hierarchical ranking among members within them, based on their perceived sexual desirability or the perceived value of their friendship. The separation between ladders is derived from a perceived tendency in women to assign value on the ladders based on significantly different criteria: the qualities deemed desirable in a friend often appear very different from those considered attractive in a sexual partner. LT also presumes a tendency in women to infer that the strength or presence of one set of qualities equals the absence or weakness of the other -- essentially, that a specific man's rank on one ladder is inversely proportional to his "natural" rank on the other -- thus leading them to rigidly maintain this categorization once assigned.
As I mentioned, just about everyone I know was friends with their SO before they dated, sometimes for years. And since you've already admitted that pursuing a friendship under nonromantic terms is a perfectly valid way to lead to dating, that necessarily means that the male's position on the female's supposed ladders must shift: from a good friend to a boyfriend. Not to mention:
LT can be of use in exposing certain bad habits that do occur in relationship dynamics, but it has more value as a negative to avoid in oneself than a model to manipulate or exploit in others.


I wasn't around when Sam was on the panel, but what benefits and deficits do you think can be derived when judges talk in terms of music theory? I did take courses in the stuff once upon a time, and if I manage to get into remixing I wouldn't mind some refreshers, particularly to make sure my compositions are harmonically... well, not correct, but harmonically sensible.

[DarkeSword]

Hey, if you're actually serious, I'm considering sending something... only I have a whopping five posts here, maybe. And no ReMixing, but that's due to lack of tools... haha. I do have a ridiculously good ear, though, and enough theory background to get by.

The thing is, normally, I wouldn't send anything with that little qualification, but I have no idea when this will be done again and if there's any chance of getting a toe in the door... you know?

But you're probably joking anyway. If not, though, care to tell me what you think? >_>

Joking.:mrgreen:

[Platinum Azure]

Joking.:mrgreen:


After you even posted a follow-up? I totally hate you. :cry:

[JJT]

user darkesword has been tempbanned for trolling

[BlueMage]

So Judges, the girls in the uni's cheerleading club were flirting with me on the market days (my manly self was maning the marital arts club stall, across from the Pastafarians and next to the Christians. Great day of laughs) and they said I should sign up because they needed hefty guys to throw around the cute smaller girls. I declined, citing lack of flexibility.

Did I miss out on a great opportunity for extracurricular activties that may or may not have led to me being slapped by my girlfriend?

[Dafydd]

Yes. Eheh, what was that movie where this little guy had to lift this really heavy girl and fell... eh... Dodgeball, wasn't it?

[Liontamer]

So Judges, the girls in the uni's cheerleading club were flirting with me on the market days (my manly self was maning the marital arts club stall, across from the Pastafarians and next to the Christians. Great day of laughs) and they said I should sign up because they needed hefty guys to throw around the cute smaller girls. I declined, citing lack of flexibility.

Did I miss out on a great opportunity for extracurricular activties that may or may not have led to me being slapped by my girlfriend?

Based off what you said, yes, you did miss out on being slapped by your girlfriend. But the injuries that rack up in cheerleading still made it the right choice, IMO. :lol:

[BlueMage]

Awesome, that's what I thought :)

The really scary thing is, the alpha-female of their little pack wasn't the tall gorgeous brunette, but rather the short little blonde. She had the good grace to join the Pastafarians though, so I can forgive her shortness.

Also, great service you're offering here.

[Liontamer]

Your argument still appears to have contradictions in it.

As I mentioned, just about everyone I know was friends with their SO before they dated, sometimes for years. And since you've already admitted that pursuing a friendship under nonromantic terms is a perfectly valid way to lead to dating, that necessarily means that the male's position on the female's supposed ladders must shift: from a good friend to a boyfriend.

Nah, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I don't know your friends, how long they've been dating, or how strong their relationships are. Nonetheless, moving from long-time friends to dating isn't as common as you're making it out to be. I can get into it later, but there are always extenuating circumstances that can explain what the dynamic was before they became more serious (e.g. how close and knowledgeable of each other they were as friends, how aloof the guy was, either party having hangups or low standards that would encourage them to settle). I was friends with The Lady for 4 years before we ever went out, but it's not because I was pining at her for 4 years. Once I realized I was down, I stopped functioning as her friend and immediately switched gears.

I also didn't say that pursuing a friendship under non-romantic terms is a perfectly valid way to lead to dating. It's valid in the same way that you could learn to fly a plane through watching action films. Could you potentially do it? Maybe, but highly unlikely. Would I recommend you do it that way when there are clearly better ways? No.

What I'm saying is that because you don't want to DATE to get to know people, trying to learn more about the person "your way" through being their friend is currently your only option, and thus, by default, your best one. But it's a statistically bad option, and you should change it.

Part of it may be (and I hate to play psych but am gonna try to infer something anyway), is that you don't wanna come across as a dog and like "all the other guys". In a way, you're denying your attraction. When you're saying "I don't know if I'm interested until I get to know them", that's inadvertently a lie. What you really mean is "I'm interested, but I don't know if I'll still be interested once I get to know them." That's more forthcoming. After all there must be a reason to justify using a friendship explicitly to research them. Well, congratulations, it's because they passed your physical attraction test, and now you wanna worm up in it.

As a male, being the friend of a girl is only OK if you don't have any interest in dating her. When you have no other motives or expectations, that's when it's truly all about friendship. Since this isn't your case, no matter how you want to spin it, I'd recommend you don't attempt to go the friend route. If you simply ASK a girl for her home phone number, the acceptance or rejection there removes ambiguities in a lot less time than if you're trying to be buddy buddy.

And let's say you do ask for a date and get it. When you go out, there are a myriad of things you can learn about the girl's attraction level to you not only through the success or failure of conversation, but also her reaction to the venue as well as her body language in that date setting, things you can't learn with that level of accuracy by being buddies.

Nothing you quoted contradicted anything I said about Ladder Theory being accurate. When I'd heard of it, it was a great supplement/verification of what I already knew.

[OA]

Stuff that is true.

Damn you, Larry, for making me break my promise to be stingy about giving this out, but you definitely earned it.

http://oceansend.com/5502/ocr/ocr+1small.gif

Pez, listen to Dr. Lovetamer.

[Hausdog]

**yoinked**

[OA]

**yoinked**

OMG you jerk ;_;

[Dhsu]

Actually it seems to me that the most controversial aspect of Ladder Theory is actually the claim that men only have one ladder (the sex ladder), as opposed to two like women do. And all of Larry's advice so far seems to strongly contradict that claim.

[Liontamer]

Actually it seems to me that the most controversial aspect of Ladder Theory is actually the claim that men only have one ladder (the sex ladder), as opposed to two like women do. And all of Larry's advice so far seems to strongly contradict that claim.
Nah, that's right in that we all have that sex ladder. Ladder Theory clarifies the deal on why we wouldn't go after a girl even though we use only one ladder: http://www.laddertheory.com/yesvirginia.htm

Barring reason 1 (being gay), changes in the status for #2 and #3 are generally how a woman moves up that ladder. For someone you're genuinely not interested in, they're at the bottom of the ladder or your cutoff point for having sex is really really high on the ladder. But there's no separate one.

[Dhsu]

Fair enough.

Although, am I only one who finds it suspicious that LT stands for both Ladder Theory and Liontamer? HMMMMMmmmmmm...

[FR]

[semi-serious question asked in a very stupid manner]

Liontamer, why won't you acknowledge my avatars? They have been there waiting for your approval but all you have done is neglect them so they can wane and woe in the darkness that is your ignorance...just end this game and reject them if they are crappy.

[/semi-serious question asked in a very stupid manner]

As you could probably tell I'm bored and like to write (I was going for the angry mother welling at the neglectful of to his kids father), The way I asked the question is all in jest and don't won't to come off as a douchebag. :smile:

[serious question]

How much time out of your day/week does the judge job take on average?

[/serious question]

[zircon]

It really depends. Lately I've had a lot of school work so at most, I spend 15-20 mins a week judging. If you're really in the groove you can do it for awhile at a time - that's how most people do it, in my experience. It sounds WAY easier than it is. Believe me.

[MB]

This is a link that may or may not have anything to do with the topic at hand, and though everyone has probably seen this already, it is certainly worth sharing. (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/forums-moderating-101.php?page=1)

[Choccy]

So, as a first post and question:

Which is your favorite remix posted in the site? If not favorite, the one you like listening the most, or the one you respect the most, be it for it's quality, etc.

[DarkeSword]

Probably a toss up between Ziwtra's 'Aftershock (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01284/),' Harmony's 'Dragon Song (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01404/),' and McVaffe's 'Makoto Jungle Jazz (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00581/).'

[Dhsu]

This is a link that may or may not have anything to do with the topic at hand, and though everyone has probably seen this already, it is certainly worth sharing. (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/forums-moderating-101.php?page=1)
Holy cow, it's MB.

[zircon]

Triforce Majeure is still probably my favorite... Green Amnesia in a close second.

[analoq]

Watermelon Flava / Joshua Morse & po! is the one I like listening to the most according to iTunes

[The Orichalcon]

So, as a first post and question:

Which is your favorite remix posted in the site? If not favorite, the one you like listening the most, or the one you respect the most, be it for it's quality, etc.

Rimco's Doomed E1L8 Boss ReMix is my favourite track on the site. Other tracks that I listen to a lot are "Neighburgers" by Protricity, "The Mother is in Control" by Revolver Project and "The Calling" by DJ Redlight.

I respect Mazedude's music the most though, as he continually produces quality music that pushes the envelope in originality.

[CHz]

Uh oh, a favorites thread.................

Well, since all the cool kids are doing it. "Neo-Pacificist (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01373/)" from Marathon by tycho is my favorite, in that it's the one I listen to the most (which is how I usually judge favorites). Absolute sexytime.

Mix I respect the most? "Static Wonderland (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01392/)" from Tsugunai and fifty trillion other games by ktriton with C-Pac on bass. Oozes pure creativity out of every orifice: arrangement, instrumentation, development, etc. Just an amazing work of art.

[Palpable]

Favorites:

zircon's "Monstrous Turtles!" (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01558/). Harmony's "Dragon Song" (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01404/) is excellent but I haven't listened to it in a while. I've also played Nick Singer's "Forerunner Mix (Alpha)" (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01659/) a ton lately.

[Liontamer]

The irony is not lost on me, by the way.

I've listened to every ReMix, so my list of personal favorites is pretty comprehensive: http://oc.ormgas.com/votesshow.php?user=8&vote=5

For the ones at the tip top, in order of artists: Metal Gear Solid 2 'Big Shell West Bristol' (http://www.ocremix.org/detailmix.php?mixid=OCR00945), Tsugunai 'Static Wonderland' (http://www.ocremix.org/detailmix.php?mixid=OCR01392), Awesome 'Game Over (Cheeze Mix)' (http://www.ocremix.org/detailmix.php?mixid=OCR01490), Suikoden 2 'Reminiscence (Deep Sleep)' (http://www.ocremix.org/detailmix.php?mixid=OCR00347), Shivers 'Cerebral Rose Jam' (http://www.ocremix.org/detailmix.php?mixid=OCR01292), and Stormlord 'Seneca's Marble Pack Edit' (http://www.ocremix.org/detailmix.php?mixid=OCR01312).

Looking at my list, I realize why I push people hard to download every OC ReMix regardless of what game it's arranging. If you don't, you will miss out on something amazing. Y'all n00bs out there, don't make that mistake! :-P

[Dhsu]

I haven't heard even half of the ReMixes yet, but I've hit every single one of those. Good stuff. Kinda surprised to see "Deep Sleep" on your list though...definitely one of the more coverish tracks on the site.

[Liontamer]

I haven't heard even half of the ReMixes yet, but I've hit every single one of those. Good stuff. Kinda surprised to see "Deep Sleep" on your list though...definitely one of the more coverish tracks on the site.

Personal preferences have nothing to do with judging. I gave OverCoat's "Path-ology" a 5 at Ormgas, but I vehemently NOed it, and it shouldn't have passed given how little of the source material was actually in it.

[OverCoat]

Personal preferences have nothing to do with judging. I gave OverCoat's "Path-ology" a 5 at Ormgas, but I vehemently NOed it, and it shouldn't have passed given how little of the source material was actually in it.

I used 100% of the good part of the song :3

[The Pezman]

'Kay, I'm gettin' a queue of unanswered music questions here. BEAT IT DOWN, LARRY! BEAT IT DOWN!!!

Do you YES songs despite the musical quality of an arrangement? I don't mean its production quality, or on the grounds of too liberal or conservative. If it meets all those criteria but is just, musically speaking, a bad arrangement (has no visible harmonic progression, tones and dissonance used inappropriately, etc), will you YES it?

I've done some thinking on what you've said otherwise. Between you, the site you linked to (mostly rubbish there) and the Wikipedia entry on ladder theory I've had much to consider. I'm not sure how much of this I believe and I'm sure I'll be struggling with it for a while, but for the purposes of continued discussion I will take the core tenet (don't remain platonic friends with a girl you like) as a given.

If I am in a situation you described, where a girl I have never spoken to passes the attraction test, the next step would be to ask her out. Problem is, I'm not very confident in my image or capabilities for first impressions, especially as an autistic (which could cause me to miss a lot of that body language you were talking about). In my experience, most appeal or charm I have comes out once people get to know me, but you're saying by then it's pretty much too late. I also go to a school with 2200 students (large crowds intimidate me), so when you factor out the non-single, unattractive (in my eyes) and just plain incompatible girls, there are slim pickings indeed. I don't actually expect you to have much to say about that last part, but it provides context.

[zircon]

Do you YES songs despite the musical quality of an arrangement? I don't mean its production quality, or on the grounds of too liberal or conservative. If it meets all those criteria but is just, musically speaking, a bad arrangement (has no visible harmonic progression, tones and dissonance used inappropriately, etc), will you YES it?


We definitely take into account general musicality. There are plenty of remixes that have been NOed despite having good production and interpretation - the overall arrangement and structure of the piece is just lacking. I guess this isn't explicitly stated in the guidelines, but it should be assumed nonetheless.

[Thin Crust]

I know that it is impossible for you to speak for all of the OC Remixers, but do you think that anyone would create a remix from a game they have never played?

[zircon]

Tons of remixers do that all the time. Hell, some remixers aren't even gamers. It's extremely common.

[Liontamer]

I know that it is impossible for you to speak for all of the OC Remixers, but do you think that anyone would create a remix from a game they have never played?

Several ReMixers have already done that.

[DarkeSword]

Several ReMixers have already done that.

Hell, I did it.

http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01343/

[Dhsu]

Did a Wild ARMS 2 arrangement once, but it was for a contest. I got second place which was like $20 or something. It was cool.

The same guy held a Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories contest before I actually played the game (which was actually not bad), and I got jack squat from that. :( Of course my arrangement was pretty lame, but I was hoping I'd be the only person who entered...

I've also done a Xenogears arrangement, even though I've played maybe only an hour or two of the game. Dunno if that counts.

[Nekofrog]

Will my Xenogears resub stand a better chance if I send you giftbaskets full of fruit?

[Abadoss]

I imagine shipping does pretty strange things to fruit after a while... unless you plan on shipping it directly to them from the orchards...

[zircon]

I can be bribed with Subway gift certificates, cookies, and baked ziti.

[Fishy]

I know that it is impossible for you to speak for all of the OC Remixers, but do you think that anyone would create a remix from a game they have never played?

I have remixed but never played any of the following:

Xenogears
Radical Dreamers
Donkey Kong Country 2

I started remixing my favourite game songs, and after time it was so fun that I just like remixing anything :). Also I'm a project whore, I'll join anything.

[DragonAvenger]

I can be bribed with Subway gift certificates, cookies, and baked ziti.

*takes down notes*

On a similar note to remixing games you've never played (which I'm doing more and more of); Does judging a mix from a game you've never played affect how things are judged? Like, does it make it much harder or easier?

I know when I know a song really well, hearing a mix that changes things unexpectedly might make me not enjoy it as much at first, for example.

[Dafydd]

I'd make a very poor judge. If I haven't played a game or never heard its soundtrack I'm not going to be interested in the mix. But if I do listen to it, and like it, I'm likely to check both the soundtrack and the game out. Though if I have played it and I think the remixer has mixed it "wrong", I will likely dislike the mix simply because it has a different baseline or plays the chords in the wrong key at some point. I wonder if the judges are affected like this and if they're aware that they are, if they are.

[zircon]

On a similar note to remixing games you've never played (which I'm doing more and more of); Does judging a mix from a game you've never played affect how things are judged? Like, does it make it much harder or easier?

It has less to do with having played a game, and more to do with general familiarity with the OST. I played World of Warcraft for thousands of hours but if you asked me about the OST I wouldn't remember most of the music. I haven't played Super Turrican ever but I know the main theme backwards and forwards. Familiarity with the source material makes judging MUCH easier, in general. Some mixes, where I don't know the source and it isn't particularly catchy, I've had to listen to the source 5-10 times to get it in my head, and then keep switching back to try to link up melodies/harmonies from the remix. It can be very frustrating.

[Palpable]

On a similar note to remixing games you've never played (which I'm doing more and more of); Does judging a mix from a game you've never played affect how things are judged? Like, does it make it much harder or easier?

Makes it much easier for me, personally. I don't have to constantly compare the mix to the source; saves me about half the time I'd spend on a mix. :)!! Sometimes I feel I get a better appreciation for a mix if I'm very familiar with the original, but I try not to let that get in the way of judging.

Though if I have played it and I think the remixer has mixed it "wrong", I will likely dislike the mix simply because it has a different baseline or plays the chords in the wrong key at some point. I wonder if the judges are affected like this and if they're aware that they are, if they are.

If this has happened to me, I've not been aware of it (though my judge career is yet young heh). Changes like that have sounded off to me, but I'd like to think they've been changes that would have stuck out even if I wasn't familiar with the mix. More often I go the other way, where the changes are more pronounced given my familiarity and so that creativity is more noticeable.

[OverCoat]

I haven't played Super Turrican ever but I know the main theme backwards and forwards

Mega Turrican > Super Turrican

[Choccy]

Mega Turrican > Super Turrican

Oh, I agree. I had the cartdrige... I wonder what happened to it.

The music, however, was, frustrating, for a lack of a better term, especially in the alien level. It made me dizzy.

[Platonist]

hmm, im curious about the whole concept of "direct post" function .. is there any way for a remixer to know about that? (unless like in zircon's case where he is in the Staff ;) )

[Liontamer]

Moved this over from the Dirt Devil reviews thread:

hmm, im curious about the whole concept of "direct post" function .. is there any way for a remixer to know about that? (unless like in zircon's case where he is in the Staff ;) )

No, there's no way unless they ask, but most people don't ask. Palpable made a great point earlier about providing direct contact on when panel decisions are made on submissions, and it's something I hope to develop with djp and the panel for my use once we thin down the queue more.

To other questions I haven't answered, I'll be getting to them down the line.

[Thin Crust]

Say a song is in many games. As an example, I can only think of the main theme of final fantasy right now. How do you decide on which game that remix will be labeled under?

[Liontamer]

Say a song is in many games. As an example, I can only think of the main theme of final fantasy right now. How do you decide on which game that remix will be labeled under?

Whatever game the artist designates it as (as well as platform for a multiplatform release), that's the game the ReMix would most likely go under. If the artist gave no info on that, we pick the game it would go under, usually the first game the source tune was a part of.

[Nicholestien]

Is there anyway to get a remix on this sight without harming or improving the source material of the original composistion?

for example, say I wanted to remix the sky runner theme from earthbound, very catchy stuff, I really like this thing the way it is though, and I only use 2 eight-bar sections from the original composition, and build my way around it from there, without harming the quality that it once had, because it's just fine the way it is,

how would I do this without going against the standards and policy of the OC?

I would imagin it's much harder now, taking into consideration that new license thing...

[JJT]

your question makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Abadoss]

Is there anyway to get a remix on this sight without harming or improving the source material of the original composistion?

for example, say I wanted to remix the sky runner theme from earthbound, very catchy stuff, I really like this thing the way it is though, and I only use 2 eight-bar sections from the original composition, and build my way around it from there, without harming the quality that it once had, because it's just fine the way it is,

how would I do this without going against the standards and policy of the OC?

I would imagin it's much harder now, taking into consideration that new license thing...

I'm not a judge, but I'm thinking the answer would be a "mostly no" on that one.

[Liontamer]

your question makes absolutely no sense to me.

I gotta agree, that question isn't clear at all. I think the core of what you're saying is "can you get a mix passed without manipulating the melody, structure and mood of the source material?" That answer is no.

[Nicholestien]

What I'm saying is, I want to put the original "unmodified" melody, and mix it with a modified one, and have them play at different times in the song.

an example would be to put the unmodified version right at the end of the remix, so instead of generating a sense that "the song is lifting off", it's more like, "the song is leaving".

get the drift of what I'm trying to say?

[The Pezman]

I do. What if there were newly composed, arranged, and creative material, but some sample of the original piece was right in there? I know some mixers do use the original at the beginning or end of their mix like he indicated, but what about something basic that played throughout?

[DarkeSword]

Why do you guys ask questions like these when the answers are right here?
http://www.ocremix.org/info/Submission_Standards_and_Instructions

I mean seriously, this thread is for asking questions of the judges, but come on:

4. Arrangement

2. The arrangement must be substantial and original.
Submissions must be different enough from the source material to clearly illustrate the contributions, modifications, and enhancements you have made. Acceptable arrangement often involves more than one of the following techniques:
Modifying the genre, chord progression, instrumentation, rhythms, dynamics, tempo, or overall composition of the source material
Adding original solos, transitions, harmonies, counter-melodies, lyrics, or vocals to the source material

I mean it's right there. Anything beyond that you can't really ask about; you just submit the piece and look at the decision.

[The Pezman]

Well, for one, this IS "Ask a judge." We've been invited to ask questions... don't tell us we shouldn't.

As for the rule you're pointing to, I'd argue that doesn't answer the question as specifically as would be best. It says it must be different enough to illustrate the contributions you have made. Well, we've already said there would be newly composed material. It's just that the original would be sampled. Technically, the newly composed material satisfies the condition you indicated. I definitely think it's not as cut and dry as you're making it out to be.

[zircon]

"Direct sampling" is pretty much only allowed in small quantities.

Taking the original game audio and simply adding drum loops or using an existing MIDI file and assigning new instruments does not qualify as substantial or original arrangement.

This combined with the rest of the guidelines should make that clear. We strongly discourage direct sampling for more than short portions of a piece. Even if there is original writing and arrangement around it, getting a piece passed that directly samples the source tune for extended periods of time is almost a surefire NO.

[DarkeSword]

Well, for one, this IS "Ask a judge." We've been invited to ask questions... don't tell us we shouldn't.

I don't mind people asking questions; that's what this thread is for. But we do have a whole mess of articles written by judges and judge decisions for people to read as well all over this site. It doesn't hurt to read up on that stuff before asking basic questions like "Am I allowed to sample?" That is covered in the Guidelines, and to be honest, I don't think you interpreted Nicholestein's question accurately to begin with.

And I maintain that a question that's worded vaguely like the one Nicholestein asked cannot adequately be answered in this thread; it's a very generic question about a very specific idea. The best way to get an answer about that kind of submission is to just make the piece of music, submit it, and let us look at the mix itself and judge accordingly, rather than grasp at trying to describe a very specific type of conservative mixing.

[Gollgagh]

I guess this is more of a site maintenance question, but Liontamer keeps ignoring me, so bleh.


I noticed a while ago that Doom 'Purgatory' (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01385/) is encoded at 48kHz because my little Sony mp3 player wouldn't accept it so I've been wondering about that for a while, but I just today noticed in the submission rules that Audio must be 44.1kHz Stereo.

Will there be a re-encoding of tracks like this to the lower whatever-you-call-it-rate or are we just leaving them as-is?

[Liontamer]

I guess this is more of a site maintenance question, but Liontamer keeps ignoring me, so bleh.
I'm not a machine. :lol: I'll go back to the other questions and answer 'em when I have the time.

I noticed a while ago that Doom 'Purgatory' (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01385/) is encoded at 48kHz because my little Sony mp3 player wouldn't accept it so I've been wondering about that for a while, but I just today noticed in the submission rules that

Will there be a re-encoding of tracks like this to the lower whatever-you-call-it-rate or are we just leaving them as-is?

Nah, anything posted before that rule went into effect will be kept as is, much like how we haven't asked for re-encodings of anything over 6MB.

[Kanthos]

The best way to get an answer about that kind of submission is to just make the piece of music, submit it, and let us look at the mix itself and judge accordingly, rather than grasp at trying to describe a very specific type of conservative mixing.

Or, at least, post a WIP; there are enough people who read the WIP forums who aren't judges but who often would share the judge's opinions on whether a mix is submission-ready. Of course, that draws the risk of having people applaud a non-OCR-worthy mix just because they like it, but it's a shorter process than submitting and waiting for a NO.

[Rozovian]

Bump, because I has question.

The "Currently in the Judging Process" thread hasn't been updated in almost a month. Is Liontamer on vacation? Did the thread turn unimportant? Miscommunication? Cake?

[Liontamer]

Bump, because I has question.

The "Currently in the Judging Process" thread hasn't been updated in almost a month. Is Liontamer on vacation? Did the thread turn unimportant? Miscommunication? Cake?

It's never as important as actually judging the submissions and real life. I'll take a look.

[anosou]

Bump, because I has question.

The "Currently in the Judging Process" thread hasn't been updated in almost a month. Is Liontamer on vacation? Did the thread turn unimportant? Miscommunication? Cake?

We're still voting on your stuff, don't worry :3

Larry's looking for a job and thus it's okay for him to slack off!

[HalcyonSpirit]

Larry's looking for a job and thus it's okay for him to slack off!

Wait... You mean OCR isn't his job?

My worldview has been shattered!

[anosou]

Wait... You mean OCR isn't his job?

My worldview has been shattered!

INNO RITE!?

made me cry.

[Liontamer]

We're still voting on your stuff, don't worry :3
That's "we" as in you, me and Palp, but that's it. The rest have obviously quit.

Wait... You mean OCR isn't his job?

My worldview has been shattered!
To alleviate the need for money, we're gonna charge for music starting next April 1st.

[Gollgagh]

To alleviate the need for money, we're gonna charge for music starting next April 1st.

You already did that :<

[DarkeSword]

What Larry means to say is that we're going to charge per submission. That'll teach you guys to haphazardly submit crappy mixes! :<

[Gollgagh]

oshi-, I better get working on my debut mix so that I can submit it before then

[Dafydd]

Heheheh

That would certainly get your workload down. Also it'll make you vote much quicker just to get your share of the submission fee. I wonder if getting your song on the site would get harder or easier though (if you get a dollar for every vote, will you vote more sloppily and just NO everything and be done with it, or YES everything and be done with it?).

[Archaon]

y u deleet mah thred

[Dhsu]

What Larry means to say is that we're going to charge per submission. That'll teach you guys to haphazardly submit crappy mixes! :<
OCtaximix.com.

[Abadoss]

You guys have six months before April Fools... It better be FREAKING AWESOME this time...

[halc]

I know it has nothing to do with the submission date, so what determines the order in which mixes are posted (or judged for that matter)?

[Dhsu]

I know it has nothing to do with the submission date, so what determines the order in which mixes are posted (or judged for that matter)?
Postcount.

J/k, it's actually sexual favor count.

[cobaltstarfire]

I know it has nothing to do with the submission date, so what determines the order in which mixes are posted (or judged for that matter)?

I'm actually kind of wondering the same thing, it seems there's song in the judge thread thing that were submitted last year and yes'd at some point, but haven't been posted...even though songs submitted this year that were also yes'd seem to have been posted.

[zircon]

Believe it or not, we do generally prioritize older mixes in both judging and posting. Older accepted mixes are usually held because they might need quick production/encoding tweaks or because they're on a project that has not been released.

[Fishy]

I'm fairly sure Dave just posts what he wants in whatever order he thinks is best, although with a tendency towards older mixes first.

EDIT: hoooo beat by andeh

[cobaltstarfire]

Thanks for explaining that, I knew the project ones were held up cause the projects aren't out yet, I was just bursting with curiosity over the others.

[Jewbei]

ok i have a few questions, I often ALWAYS read the judges panel like every chance i get and read on the votes on the artist remixes. Is that s good idea to do? I dunno just that I read to gain knowledge and to see what mistakes I don't make when im starting my next mix even though the info doesnt really apply to me I still read it to take pointers.

Also Larry ive often see the word "synergy" in your post...what the hell does it mean? :razz:


and what do you like more in a mix sound design or standard sounds but used in a effective way? because being that my style is Trance I always find ways to sound fresh and im always looking for new sounds to grab the listeners attention.

[Dafydd]

Haha, I've heard about that word, apparently it's one of those bs ones that people use to market stuff even though they don't know what they mean. Can't say LT doesn't though.

[The Mutericator]

"Synergy" means that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. In other words, it's different elements (or all of the elements) in a song sounding very good together, where if any one of those elements were changed, the loss would be greater than the loss of that one element itself.

Simply put, it's two or more parts working really well together.

[anosou]

ok i have a few questions, I often ALWAYS read the judges panel like every chance i get and read on the votes on the artist remixes. Is that s good idea to do? I dunno just that I read to gain knowledge and to see what mistakes I don't make when im starting my next mix even though the info doesnt really apply to me I still read it to take pointers.

Also Larry ive often see the word "synergy" in your post...what the hell does it mean? :razz:


and what do you like more in a mix sound design or standard sounds but used in a effective way? because being that my style is Trance I always find ways to sound fresh and im always looking for new sounds to grab the listeners attention.

Keep readin', I often make killer jokes!

Also, I like both sound design and standard sounds used in an effective way. That's pretty much what makes a good song :3 When we're talking trance, if the sounds are standard but the arrangement is killer, now worries. Although the other way around is less common (and often kicked in the ass since this is about the arrangement) getting some serious sound-sweetening skills WILL often help you as long as it's not tasteless.

..kinda

Also yeah, Larry should tattoo: EGO SUM TEH PANEL! on his back.

[Thin Crust]

So why is the original song names no longer added to the new arrangements? I have a feeling that Terra isn't the most remixed song on the site, because of the lack of labeling. Let's see if anyone can guess which song it is.