MGS... should I..?

[Schwaltzvald]

I've noticed during the postings going to the aStore here that there was the Metal Gear Solid: The Essentials. Should I get it..?

the price's not too bad, and I've never played a MGS before...

[Gollgagh]

Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes.

Buy that bad-ass motherfucker.

[Nutritious]

One of the best games I've ever played (original MG:S). Get it.

[Vivi22]

Yes. I would say more, but we're talking about one of the best games ever made here. Whether or not to get it shouldn't even be a question.

[Shadow Wolf]

If you even have to ask that question, you are suffering from stupid and AIDS. Also probably dick ants. Yes. Buy it. Several times. Beat all 3, then go buy a PS3 and shit bricks while you wait for the 4th.

[Admiral_C]

Overreaction maybe?

[Schwaltzvald]

Overreaction maybe?

yeah perhaps, then again I was kinda being a dick as I already bought it yesterday when I saw it on amazon :lol:

I just wanted to post about it in case nobody else heard about it without feelimg like some spamming advertiser; much like how I didn't hear about SH:0 being available for the ps2 last week.

[Penfold]

Actually, on this topic, did they add any new content that would make it worthwhile for people who already own the games to get it? I actually only relatively recently picked up MGS2 and 3, but haven't gotten a chance to play them yet, then have Twin Snakes for Gamecube (which I really enjoyed).

[I-n-j-i-n]

Twin Snakes is like a neutered form of MGS though... even with its pretty graphic overhaul, the original was still one of the best versions of MGS. I would even rate the ridiculous MGS2 over Twin Snakes personally.

Also, why don't they have the VR Missions? That disc was one of the best versions of Metal Gear ever made.

And I'm pretty peeved that I spent at least $200 on the Metal Gear Solid games for what amounts to $30 now..

[Arek the Absolute]

Twin Snakes is like a neutered form of MGS though... even with its pretty graphic overhaul, the original was still one of the best versions of MGS. I would even rate the ridiculous MGS2 over Twin Snakes personally.

Also, why don't they have the VR Missions? That disc was one of the best versions of Metal Gear ever made.

And I'm pretty peeved that I spent at least $200 on the Metal Gear Solid games for what amounts to $30 now..

you sound as if you are new to how video games work

this trend has happened for quite a while when it comes to series

[Schwaltzvald]

why don't they have the VR Missions? That disc was one of the best versions of Metal Gear ever made.

Here's what I've gleaned from the store on the description to the collection.

Metal Gear Solid

Lightly armed and facing an army of foes, Snake must avoid firefights in order to survive.

If Snake is discovered, he can utilize advanced weaponry, ranging from silenced pistols to ground-to-air missiles.

Enemies react to sight and sound.

State-of-the-art graphics: Textures, transparencies, models and explosions.
Suspenseful, gripping story with multiple endings for a truly cinematic experience.

---

Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance
350+ VR missions and 150+ alternative missions.

Play through 5 "Snake Tales" levels involving Solid Snake.

Skateboarding mode lets you explore the Big Shell as Raiden or Snake.

Utilize stealth and infiltration methods, such as diving somersaults, hanging from ledges and using disguises.

Fully interactive environments- bullets pierce steam pipes, smoke reveals laser beams and wet shoes leave footprints.

Powerful musical score composed by Harry Gregson-Williams (Shrek, Armageddon, The Rock)

---

Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence

Relive history as the cold war and geo-political landscape change.

Outsmart enemies with camouflage, close-quarters combat, stalking, interrogating, climbing, hunting and treating injuries.

Pit yourself against an environment where traps catch enemies and prey, threats lurk in the shadows, and noise alert predators.

Epic musical score composed by Harry Gregson-Williams (Shrek, Armageddon, The Rock) and immersive Dolby Prologic II surround sound.

Are those 350 VR missions what you were referring to..?

[Penfold]

Twin Snakes is like a neutered form of MGS though... even with its pretty graphic overhaul, the original was still one of the best versions of MGS. I would even rate the ridiculous MGS2 over Twin Snakes personally.

How do you mean? I understand they added the first-person view stuff from MGS2, and obviously updated the graphics, but did they actually change anything else/remove anything)?

[Brycepops]

How do you mean? I understand they added the first-person view stuff from MGS2, and obviously updated the graphics, but did they actually change anything else/remove anything)?

You start with a maxed health bar and ammo capacity, too.

[Penfold]

You start with a maxed health bar and ammo capacity, too.

Oh, gotcha. So, pretty much, they just made Twin Snakes too easy compared to the original release. I guess so long as content wasn't taken out, though, I can live without having played the original PSX version after playing Twin Snakes.

[Dhsu]

I just impulse-bought this from the aStore last night myself. That is to say, I saw a post about it somewhere else, then immediately came here to buy it. I'm a bit nonplussed to find out afterwards that they left out the second disc of Subsistence but I guess there are other ways to get it.

[Soma]

I laughed several times during this thread.mostly here.

If you even have to ask that question, you are suffering from stupid and AIDS. Also probably dick ants. Yes. Buy it. Several times. Beat all 3, then go buy a PS3 and shit bricks while you wait for the 4th.
and here
Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes.

Buy that bad-ass motherfucker.
I agree completely. I own mgs, mgs2 (not substance) mgs3 (and mgs3 subsistence.) and i even thought about picking it up. $30 is a great deal. I must warn you, when June rolls around you're going to want that ps3 bundle (if you don't have one already). Now's a good time to jump into the series.

[BooDidley7]

MGS 1 is great. However, if you're a newcomer to the series, you should be warned that aiming can actually be a bit awkward, since there's no FPS zoom (for most weapons), which they added later on to the series. It's worth sticking out.

But this is better than the Twin Snakes. Graphics may not be, but you get better music, and no stupid Matrix-y cut scenes, that were added later on. You still get good cut scenes, they just don't involve Snake kicking rockets.

Plus, this has arguably the best set of bosses in the series. Although MGS3's group might offer you better battles, this group is probably cooler.

And the story is among the best of the series.

[blueblazer1224]

I'm really glad that I came across this topic today, because otherwise I may never have heard about this MGS Package. Here are the Metal Gear Solid games I own so far:

Metal Gear Solid (Playstation)
Metal Gear Solid: VR Missions (Playstation)
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (PS2)
Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance (PS2)
The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 (PS2)
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence *Limited Edition* (PS2)

Having bought all of the games already included in "Metal Gear Solid: The Essentials"...and then some, I'm still planning on buying this collection. The main draw for me is the re-release of the original Metal Gear Solid. My original copy of Metal Gear Solid has been pretty abused over the years and I could really use a new copy of that amazing game.

Even though a few people have mentioned it already...this is a STEAL for anybody who doesn't already own any Metal Gear Solid games and a great way to prepare yourself for MGS4.

[Penfold]

So what's the difference between the 2 MGS2s and the 2 MGS3s? I got Sons of Liberty and Subsistence, but how are these different from Substance and Snake Eater, respectively?

[Brycepops]

So what's the difference between the 2 MGS2s and the 2 MGS3s? I got Sons of Liberty and Subsistence, but how are these different from Substance and Snake Eater, respectively?

Wikipedia is your best friend :|.

[Penfold]

Wikipedia is your best friend :|.

Given that there were people right here who could answer that, I figured I'd just throw it out there. No harm in that.

[Schwaltzvald]

So I guess it's a good thing I made this thread :)!!

Despite my bashing on the PS3 I may actually cave in and at least buy my copy of MGS4... The PStriple will have to wait...

I've waited all my life before finally buying any MG/MGS game, I think I can wait for MGS4 :)!!

[Global-Trance]

Metal Gear Solid. One of the best cinematic game experiences ever created.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Are those 350 VR missions what you were referring to..?

Nope. There was a definitive Metal Gear Solid game called VR Missions (tacky name I know). MGS2 also had its own VR missions, but it's not the same. I think the MGS2 ones are missing the giant-soldiers ones in the original. I'm still a bit terrified of the giant soldiers..

How do you mean? I understand they added the first-person view stuff from MGS2, and obviously updated the graphics, but did they actually change anything else/remove anything)?

Like everyone says, the game is much easier than it ever was. Though I think MGS always needed better camera system because you really can't aim anywhere (no FPS mode, very restricted looking mode, etc). Also, the original favoring with the foreign accents and its darker feel is missing in the remake. Like how they say in the interviews that they purposely made Twin Snakes over the top with Hong Kong style acrobatics. I think it's still a very good remake. Just not the same as the good old original. Imagine playing Super Mario Bros and then playing Super Mario Bros in Super Mario Allstars. It's just not the same experience with the slight overhaul.

So what's the difference between the 2 MGS2s and the 2 MGS3s? I got Sons of Liberty and Subsistence, but how are these different from Substance and Snake Eater, respectively?

MSG2's second version only added the VR missions. The other MGS3 game Subsistence had a lot of new features in the second disc including the original Metal Gear 1 and 2 (IMO just as great as the 3D versions except for the lack of any theatrical feel and none of the great voice acting). That and MGS3 had a pretty horrible online mode added in with people cheating or acting cheap with shotguns all the time.

[The Pezman]

Twin Snakes is like a neutered form of MGS though... even with its pretty graphic overhaul, the original was still one of the best versions of MGS. I would even rate the ridiculous MGS2 over Twin Snakes personally.
Explain further. I was under the impression that most, if not all, of the improvements made were technical, and that the story was only enhanced, not diminished. In preparation for MGS4, I want to play through the entire series thus far (including the GBC and PSP games) and, since MGS is from the realm of bad (by today's standards) 3D, I figured I'd play the updated version (which I haven't played yet). So tell me why I shouldn't.

[Dhsu]

Imagine playing Super Mario Bros and then playing Super Mario Bros in Super Mario Allstars. It's just not the same experience with the slight overhaul.
That actually sounds like a reason you'd *want* to play Twin Snakes. Super Mario All-Stars was awesome.

[Global-Trance]

Explain further. I was under the impression that most, if not all, of the improvements made were technical, and that the story was only enhanced, not diminished. In preparation for MGS4, I want to play through the entire series thus far (including the GBC and PSP games) and, since MGS is from the realm of bad (by today's standards) 3D, I figured I'd play the updated version (which I haven't played yet). So tell me why I shouldn't.

Some dialogue was changed in terms of writing AND delivery. Original dialogue was much better but they DID explain the whole identical genes yet different appearances thing between Solid and Liquid a bit better in Twin Snakes.

[I-n-j-i-n]

That actually sounds like a reason you'd *want* to play Twin Snakes. Super Mario All-Stars was awesome.

I don't disagree. Both are great for different reasons. But the original just has that different flair. As if it was meant to be played that way.

Pezman, I enjoyed Twin Snakes too so I'm not saying you shouldn't play it. But the definitive experience is with the original. The warts and all. Maybe it's only me, but I don't have such a big problem with the heavy pixels of the Playstation 1 era. Technically, it really does look bad but I think the gameplay stands on its own.

As for the different physical appearance issue with Liquid/Solid, I think that could'be been construed from the way Liquid kept saying he was of inferior gene when just about everyone else in the game said otherwise. Maybe that was a bit too cryptic for many gamers.

[Strike911]

Explain further. I was under the impression that most, if not all, of the improvements made were technical, and that the story was only enhanced, not diminished. In preparation for MGS4, I want to play through the entire series thus far (including the GBC and PSP games) and, since MGS is from the realm of bad (by today's standards) 3D, I figured I'd play the updated version (which I haven't played yet). So tell me why I shouldn't.

Let me tell you something. Twin Snakes is good. It has a graphics overhaul. It looks shiney.

The orignal MGS has music and mood and an attitude that feels lost in newer version. The voice acting isn't as great (not bad, but not as good as the original). They rechoreographed some of the cutscenes (making them a little over the top imo... too many damned flips through the air that are just silly), added in A LITTLE extra information, and THEY CHANGED A LOT OF THE MUSIC (which I believe is one of the biggest problems). For instance, some memorable songs are all removed and they've thrown in some wild electronica stuff, which is cool, but it doesn't feel the same as the stellar, classic music from the original. Sure you get MGS2 moves in TwinSnakes, but it just doesn't feel as magical or as captivating as the PS1 version felt. Plus since the MGS2 controls were never intended for the maps of MGS2, you can take out entire squads of guards with the first person view, which you were unable to do in the original. And I don't want to spoil anything for you, but a few very dramatic parts in the PS1 version just feel watered down in general...

***SEMI-SPOILER***
there's one scene in the snow where Snake has to finish off a fallen enemy, and it just doesn't have the dramatic effect that the original had... the original was so good and so moving. I'm trying to keep it vague for those of you that haven't played the game... although citing something as a spoiler that is almost ten years old does seem a little silly to me.
***END SPOILERS*

It's just not as emotionally moving.

The entire experience on the Gamecube just feels watered down. Play the PS1 version, the way MGS was intended from the beginning, because it's a phenomenal game.

Play the PS1 version. It is superior in it's lasting effect. Just do it. Go. Stop Reading. Go play MGS on the PS1. G'WAN!

[Penfold]

Thanks guys for clarifying the differences between Twin Snakes and the original release. Honestly, hearing about the differences make me wanna get this MGS collection just to experience these differences for myself.

[The Pezman]

Ditto. I'll consider all this when I get to it.

[Hadriel]

If you think Twin Snakes is too easy, jack up the difficulty.

I've played both versions of MGS, and I find that Twin Snakes' improvements in play mechanics, control, graphics and environmental interactivity give it a rather substantial edge over the original as far as the overall presentation of the game. I don't have a problem with the accents being missing from Twin Snakes; Naomi and Mei Ling have both lived in America for many years and are likely to speak as such. And I also don't have a problem with the Matrix-y cutscenes, given that 1) they are awesome and 2) even in the original game, Gray Fox could hold up MG-REX; it makes sense that any character capable of hurting him in hand-to-hand combat would be superhuman, and Snake is explicitly identified in the storyline as the result of a genetic supersoldier project. A normal human punching a character like Fox (through a powered exoskeleton, no less) would be more likely to break their hand than to inflict damage. All of this isn't to say that the original isn't a good game, but its play control is less smooth and more awkward than Twin Snakes, and at this point, the original's graphics are hard to look at without injuring one's eyes.

[MrBogus]

If you want a balance between the shinier graphics of Twin Snakes and the grittiness of the original MGS, go for the Windows version. All the textures and graphics are in high resolution, but other than that, nothing was changed to my knowledge. Same atmosphere, same controls, same dialogue (way better than Twin Snakes), same awesome music.

Unrelated -- Naomi Hunter (the English girl who betrays Solid) is freakin hot.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I've played both versions of MGS, and I find that Twin Snakes' improvements in play mechanics, control, graphics and environmental interactivity give it a rather substantial edge over the original as far as the overall presentation of the game.

The missing music affects the presentation a lot as was the superior voice acting and the minimal play mechanics of the original. Like others have said, MGS2 moves in MGS1 = you can literally cheat your way through the entire game with FPS mode. Also, some scenes totally missed the gravitas evident in the original. If you're comparing the cinematic impact of the two, I don't think it's any contest really. MGS1 did everything right, Twin Snakes perverted a lot of what made it great originally, though it still ends up being a great game because it milked off the original.

And I also don't have a problem with the Matrix-y cutscenes, given that 1) they are awesome and 2) even in the original game, Gray Fox could hold up MG-REX; it makes sense that any character capable of hurting him in hand-to-hand combat would be superhuman, and Snake is explicitly identified in the storyline as the result of a genetic supersoldier project.

Gray Fox holding up the Rex was otherwise pretty straightforward and didn't involve flipping around in the air needlessly. They're two totally different things in the way they're presented.

Also, Solid was known to be a genetic supersoldier though not said so explicitly. It was implied under the more subversive writing of the original game.

I don't have a problem with the accents being missing from Twin Snakes; Naomi and Mei Ling have both lived in America for many years and are likely to speak as such.

The problem isn't just with the accents. The voicework is just all around a bit worse for the wear. The thing was that the accents were just done so well done, taking it out just doesn't do the original game justice.

[Schwaltzvald]

Alright well it finally arrived this afternoon and I soon discovered... I'm not gonna be able to play MGS on my PS2 unless I had a PS1 mem card... yay...

While I still have a mem card it's real iffy in that at rare times it has suddenly lost all memory of anything I've saved on it.

SO... I had little choice but to play MGS on my pc via emulator with disc in drive.

As for the game, the the simple VR training missions surprised me. It's well thought out. No doubt vets snub at my statement but yeah I was impressed with the short VR training missions at the beginning alone.

Later on I'll get to have more time playing MGS. :)!!

[Dhsu]

Seriously. I got the Game Boy Color game, and went through every single VR mission before I even touched the main game. So good.

[Vivi22]

As for the game, the the simple VR training missions surprised me. It's well thought out. No doubt vets snub at my statement but yeah I was impressed with the short VR training missions at the beginning alone.

Later on I'll get to have more time playing MGS. :)!!

Sucks about the memory card, but there's no shame in loving the VR Missions. Keep in mind they were so good that they released an entire game full of about 300 of them, which were also so good that I completed all but 1 of them (in my defense, it was the single hardest in the game. I knew how to do it, but that was only part of the battle and I just got too frustrated to finish). Playing through those would make someone a god at the original MGS. Hopefully you're playing with some sort of controller connected to your computer though. I shudder to think how the game would play trying to use a keyboard.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Seriously. I got the Game Boy Color game, and went through every single VR mission before I even touched the main game. So good.

I heard a lot of good things about the Gameboy Color Metal Gear Solid. Apparently it's even above the PSP ones. Also, every Metal Gear game should have the VR modes. It's like a precursor to the strange puzzle games like Portal.

[Specter]

As I've said before, MGS is pretty much my favorite game of all time (if you couldn't tell from my avatar and sig). In fact, I currently have in my possession:
Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence (not the limited edition, unfortunately)
Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops
Metal Gear Acid
Metal Gear Acid 2
Metal Gear Digital Graphic Novel
(Take that, blueblazer :smile:)

Though I have played the GBC Metal Gear, I was never really a fan of the 2D versions. IMO, Portable Ops (the PSP one) was better, even if it wasn't as true to the series in terms of gameplay and presentation (though I love the art style used for the cutscenes). I can forgive that though, since it was really tailored for a portable system, and is only meant to be played in short segments.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I wasn't a big fan of the 2D Metal Gears either until I kept playing and it grew on me. Then I realized that 90% of all Metal Gear Solid gameplay derived from Metal Gear 2. MG2 is still my favorite Metal Gear game of all time. Maybe that could change once I buy the GBC version.

[Gamelore]

I've only played Metal Gear.

Not sure what all this "Solid" crap is about, but I might buy the Essentials at some point to see. Not a big fan of 3D. I mostly just want Metal Gear 2 (MSX) but apparently this is considered some kind of cheap "bonus" material now, rather than actual content, and was excluded from the Essentials set.

Pretty lame. Anyway, it comes back to Konami in the end. They can be assured I won't buy MGS4 as long as I can't get my hands on Metal Gear 2.

[Vivi22]

I've only played Metal Gear.

Not sure what all this "Solid" crap is about, but I might buy the Essentials at some point to see. Not a big fan of 3D. I mostly just want Metal Gear 2 (MSX) but apparently this is considered some kind of cheap "bonus" material now, rather than actual content, and was excluded from the Essentials set.

Pretty lame. Anyway, it comes back to Konami in the end. They can be assured I won't buy MGS4 as long as I can't get my hands on Metal Gear 2.

If you want MG2 that badly, you could always track down a copy of MGS3: Subsistence. You'd probably be able to get your hands on it for cheap by now, and you'd have the bonus of being able to play what is to this date my favourite game in the series. Honestly, whether you're into 3D or not, by not at least trying the MGS series I think you're missing out. Whenever I look at all the shovelware, rehashes, yearly sports games, wondering where all the innovation and originality in game design is, I can look at the MGS series and remember that Kojima has hoarded most of it for himself, so there's not much left for everyone else (except maybe for Fumitu Ueda). Seriously, games like MGS are the reason I play games.

[The Pezman]

I have it and will sell it to you.

[Penfold]

If you want MG2 that badly, you could always track down a copy of MGS3: Subsistence.

I could be wrong, but was under the impression that since Subsistence was included in this collection, that MG/MG2 would be included in the package.

Also, since I just recently bought Subsistence since I didn't hear about this collection till after, I can tell you it goes for $14 at EB/Gamestop.

[Gamelore]

I could be wrong, but was under the impression that since Subsistence was included in this collection, that MG/MG2 would be included in the package.

Also, since I just recently bought Subsistence since I didn't hear about this collection till after, I can tell you it goes for $14 at EB/Gamestop.

Yeah, I figured it would include MG/MG2 because that is technically part of Subsistence.

Nice. I'll check a couple Gamestops for it after work. Ebay is a bit pricey when all I really want is the Persistence disc.

[Vivi22]

I could be wrong, but was under the impression that since Subsistence was included in this collection, that MG/MG2 would be included in the package.

Also, since I just recently bought Subsistence since I didn't hear about this collection till after, I can tell you it goes for $14 at EB/Gamestop.

I'm not sure if it comes with the bonus disc that had MG and MG2 though, and seem to be having trouble finding any site that can give me a straight answer on that fact either. I suppose it is likely it'd be in there though. Anyone who owns it (or is better informed than me) want to clarify. I never really kept up to date on what was in this collection since I already own all three (including owning Snake Eater and Subsistence).

[ILLiterate]

EC doesn't come with the second disk for MGS3:S

Having said that, I never got to play MGS3:S with the new camera and my god it makes the game a thousand times better

I also never could get a copy of MGS2:S with the Skateboarding and Snake missions and I couldn't find my copy of MGS1 so this pack is easily the best thing ever

[Oni-91]

I also never could get a copy of MGS2:S with the Skateboarding and Snake missions and I couldn't find my copy of MGS1 so this pack is easily the best thing ever
I thought that the Skateboarding was only in the PS2 version, and the Snake Tales were in all of them...looks like I was wrong. Anyway, I've played the Skateboarding, and you aren't missing much.

[Penfold]

EC doesn't come with the second disk for MGS3:S

Oh, ok...didn't realize it was on a 2nd disc. In fact, I didn't even realize there was a 2nd disc since I didn't even open MGS3 yet :P.

[The Pezman]

Snake Tales is not in regular Sons of Liberty.

[Gollgagh]

Snake Tales is not in regular Sons of Liberty.

That is correct, but apparently, a limited version of Substance is in the Essentials pack.

[ILLiterate]

Gollgagh is correct, it comes with MGS1, MGS2:S, and MGS3:S (no 2nd disk)

[Oni-91]

MGS3:S (no 2nd disk)
What was in the second disc? I know that Subsistence had 3 discs, but was Disc 2 the online multiplayer or the FMV?

[Dhsu]

Subsistence only has 2 discs. All the extras were on the second disc...the only thing that distinguishes the first disc from the original game is the new camera.

[Schwaltzvald]

So far I've just started to play MGS first game (work/life et cetera) and I've noticed there's a second disc to the first game. Is it a continuation from the first disc or is it something else..?

[Brycepops]

So far I've just started to play MGS first game (work/life et cetera) and I've noticed there's a second disc to the first game. Is it a continuation from the first disc or is it something else..?

The original MGS on the PS1 was 2-disc; It's a continuation disc.


Oni: It had the multiplayer and MG1 & 2 on it.

[Oni-91]

A-ha. Thanks. Now I just need to find a copy over here, where it's rarer than platinum turds.

[Dhsu]

Or you could get it from the OCR aStore (http://astore.amazon.com/overclocked02-20/detail/B001383L36/103-3010710-0054241). :D

[Oni-91]

Can't. Sorry, wouldn't work on my PAL PS2. I just want Subsistence, as I already have MGS1 and Substance.

[Penfold]

Decided to buy this collection yesterday, though I've gotta find my old PS memory card before I can start MGS. Also got through MGS2 and most of MGS3 this weekend, and both have been really enjoyable.

[MGS2 possible spoiler]I thought it was kinda funny that during the fight with Fortune, I know I hit her several times...a bug or were you actually able to defeat her in that short time? I also died a couple times when attempting to infiltrate shell 1, since I didn't realize you NEEDED the AK to continue, and I didn't really have any idea where it was :P.[/spoiler]

[MGS3 possible spoiler]The fight with The End was terrible IMO. I appreciate the idea they had for it, but the execution wasn't good. Of course, going for the stamina kill added to the frustration (which I just didn't have the patience for, after he recovered half of his lost stamina when I lost him one time). It's also kinda tough to transition to MGS3 when you've taken the radar (and suppressors that don't deteriorate) for granted, but a very fun experience nevertheless. The dialogue with Granin was really interesting, as was his REX printout and RAY model. [/spoiler]

Overall, I've been really impressed with the story through these games, and especially MGS2 has gotten me excited for MGS4.

[Gollgagh]

[MGS3 possible spoiler]The fight with The End was terrible IMO. I appreciate the idea they had for it, but the execution wasn't good. Of course, going for the stamina kill added to the frustration (which I just didn't have the patience for, after he recovered half of his lost stamina when I lost him one time). It's also kinda tough to transition to MGS3 when you've taken the radar (and suppressors that don't deteriorate) for granted, but a very fun experience nevertheless. [/spoiler]

weaking

The End was brilliant

(this is coming from someone that finished extreme mode with no kills)

[I-n-j-i-n]

The End was arguably the best game boss in history IMO.

Stamina kill is really not a factor. As long as you fiddle around with the equipment, you should find out where he is at all times.

Also, you can stamina-kill The End too. Just put spoiled and poisoned foods everywhere and he'll actually kill himself before you really do anything.

The only annoying part is how you'd have to zone in and out constantly though. And the pixelations didn't help, though it was the best PS2 could do.