Rock Band Wii... ... and it's utter failure.

[Nekofrog]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/51893

Update: A Harmonix representative has confirmed to Shacknews that the Wii edition of Rock Band will not include online multiplayer or support for downloadable content.

Such online functionality was a highly-touted feature of the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 releases, having sold over six million song downloads since the two versions debuted last November.

Furthermore, a post by Harmonix's Sean Baptiste on the game's official forums noted that the Rock Band Wii instruments are stand-alone controllers that do not require a Wii Remote to be plugged in.

His statement suggests the title will not be compatible with the guitar controller released for the Wii version of Vicarious Vision's Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock, which mandate that a Wii Remote be inserted into the guitar-shaped controller shell.

Original Story:: Despite pending litigation, MTV-owned developer Harmonix has announced that its music-based multi-instrument title Rock Band will hit the Wii on June 22 in North America.

The Wii version will come with a total of 63 songs, five of which are bonus songs. A full list of the 63 tracks was not provided, though the initial 58 are expected to mirror the 45 main songs and 13 bonus tracks of the previously-released PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, and Xbox 360 editions.

A Special Edition bundle--containing a wireless guitar, drum kit, and microphone--will sell for $169.99. Stand alone instruments and software will also be available at release, allowing Special Edition buyers to pick up the extra guitar needed for a four-person band.

As with past Rock Band releases, publisher Electronic Arts will handle the game's distribution. The company had previously revealed the existence of the Wii edition, though it did not specify a release timeframe at the time.

"The Wii's success among casual and core gamers of all ages makes it an ideal match for the cross-generational appeal of the music featured in Rock Band," explained vice president of MTV's games division Bob Picunko.

"The social interaction and addictive nature of the Rock Band experience is a perfect fit for the Wii and will undoubtedly be fun for the entire family," added Nintendo licensing VP Steve Singer.

Well, fuck you EA. My GF and I were really looking forward to this, as neither of us have a PS3 (roffle, why buy that?) or a 360 (maybe some day).

But no multiplayer? You can fuck right off there, EA.

[Zombie]

I am not really interested in Rock Band, but that just sucks.:|

[djpretzel]

imo you can pin SOME (not all - some) of the multiplayer issue on Nintendo... PSN and XBL have commonalities that, I'd guess, make their programming/support a bit easier.

I know this argument has been hashed out a hundred times, but to me, Wii friend codes are a ridiculous implementation of online gaming, and ties lack of 720p+ support as the console's biggest weakness.

I don't think EA are actively trying to stick it to Wii users... I'm guessing there are technical issues that make the ROI problematic. It'd be interesting to find this sort of thing out, 100%...

[Murmeli Walan]

Goddamnit. I was really looking forward to this, and now it seems that the Wii owners get shafted yet again.

This is a real disappointment, and I don't think any amount of "special bonus tracks" will make up for it.

[Neo Samus]

Well that sucks......I guess I can sort of understand DLC, but no online is just complete bullshit.

[Katsurugi]

I feel bad for the Wii owners who were looking forward to this title. The whole point of Rock Band was the ability to play together like... well.. a rock band. With the internet now here, they should take advantage of it to connect people to be able to play together.

But if anything, I would like EA to fail massively at this. There are already so many titles that EA has profited off of undeservedly. Ideally, I want them to admit that they've been shafting the end user whenever they had the opportunity to.

[Overflow]

What bugs me is that the GHIII wii guitar won't work. I'll have to end up with 3 guitars!!
Also, at least you CAN play multiplayer with 4 people in the same room, right?

[Shadow Wolf]

imo you can pin SOME (not all - some) of the multiplayer issue on Nintendo... PSN and XBL have commonalities that, I'd guess, make their programming/support a bit easier.

I know this argument has been hashed out a hundred times, but to me, Wii friend codes are a ridiculous implementation of online gaming, and ties lack of 720p+ support as the console's biggest weakness.

I don't think EA are actively trying to stick it to Wii users... I'm guessing there are technical issues that make the ROI problematic. It'd be interesting to find this sort of thing out, 100%...

Q.F. FUCKING. E. My hatred of EA in general is well published, but Nintendo's utterly worthless implementation of online multiplayer is screwing them, and hence their consumers, completely. The way friend codes have to be used to even get two people together is ludicrous, because Nintendo has gone SO far into the realm of keeping the kiddies safe that the service is literally unusable.

[starla]

So much fail :| that's really dissapointing. I download new songs nearly every time they come out on XBL. Even after a couple replacements, I still think the 360 was a fantastic investment.

[Katsurugi]

I'm sure that EA will retain the non-online multiplayer aspect. But come on, being able to play with other people not in the same room would be able to connect you to your friends at other schools/cities. I never actually got to play in a rock band showdown. But the idea of competition in this game or any game would greatly improve the depth of the experience.

[Dhsu]

If GH3 can have multiplayer, so can Rock Band. I see no reason for this travesty.

[Drack]

Ever played Medal of Honor: Heroes on the wii?

It's by EA. Its online is done through EA, not through Nintendo. It uses usernames and friend requests. It's a thing a beauty, a refreshing breath of air from beneath the burden of friend codes.

EA has the infrastructure for Wii multiplayer done right. They're just not using it for Rock Band. A shame, I say.

Equally shameful is not supporting the GH3 controller. Cmon, I know there have been lawsuits about RB and GH not getting along, but consumers shouldn't have to buy two guitar controllers with the same inputs in the same places for the two games.

[Arek the Absolute]

What drack says is very true. If EA actually cared about this game, they would have done the same that they did for Medal of Honor for the wii.

Saddening, to say the least.

[megadave]

Executive 1: "Oh, we're putting this out on the Wii?"

Executive 2: "Yeah. I guess so. But it's going on the Wii you know? Let's make it just like the PS2 version, they will never notice. That's what most of the other 3rd party developers do on Wii, as opposed to the quality games being released on 360. I swear, if it wasn't for Nintendo's excellent first party games and some love from Capcom the Wii console would be screwed."

Executive 1: "I bet they wouldn't notice the lack of online either...he he. After all, we need that budget money for our next shitty Madden game."

Executive 2: "Scrap it. Nintendo won't mind as long as we make the graphics overly simplistic so the brain-dead majority will like the game too."

Executive 1: "Nah, just copy the PS2's graphics and give it wide-screen support". I'll let the team know immediately. This will be an excellent opportunity. Man I love screwing over Wii fans."

Executive 2: "Me too. Let's go out for a drink."

[The Damned]

Wow. my boss and I were talking for about twenty minutes today about Wii games, and he seemed really interested in Rock Band for the Wii.

I don't think he knows about this yet.

[OA]

Ok, missing downloadable songs sucks A LOT, but I for one at not interested in the least with playing with other people online.
Half the fun of the game is making up awesome rock poses with your friends, and online doesn't convey that at all. Are you guys honestly that pissed about not being able to play online?

I'll just be playing with people in the same room, and if that means I have to get an "expansion pack" or whatever they plan to do for additional songs, then so be it I guess. Not ideal, but it's ok.

[Sir_NutS]

Well that's bullshit, specially considering how well done (for being a wii game) the online aspect of MOH for Wii is done.

I don't think it's entirely EA's fault as certainly nintendo's stubbornness about delivering a decent online experience and a good online platform for the developers had a lot to do with it.

I'd rather save, get an xbox360+rock band.

[Bahamut]

I knew it wouldn't have downloadable tracks but no online multiplayer? Looks like you gotta get the 360 or PS3 version if you want that...I guess EA's view is that if you're able to spend that much money on Rock Band, you should be able to shell out for a console too if you want the full experience.

[Imagist]

I'll just be playing with people in the same room, and if that means I have to get an "expansion pack" or whatever they plan to do for additional songs, then so be it I guess. Not ideal, but it's ok.

You seem to be missing the point. By all indications thus far, no downloadable content means NO expansions whatsoever. Your next chance for more songs will be Rock Band 2.

This "no-online" thing just pisses me off, but less because of EA's prior gold in MOH:H and more because of Harmonix's prior gold in just about everything they do. I could expect this crap from Red Octane and Activision continuing the GH franchise, but come on, Harmonix!

[JCvgluvr]

Once again, the Wii gets screwed. Why am I not surprised?

You see? This is why Xbox Wii60 is the best package. If you can afford it, there shouldn't be anything keeping you from owning both consoles.

[Sinewav]

I never thought the day would come where I would want to buy a Microsoft version of a product because it was the better choice...

[KyleJCrb]

Downloadable content on the Wii is a bit difficult, considering the Wii lacks a built-in hard drive, and SD cards don't really have the space to support DLC. I can understand lacking that.

Lack of online multiplayer is a drag, though. :-( And I was actually interested in the Wii version. Oh well, maybe EA and Harmonix will wise up and release a PC port.

[kitty]

I would buy a 360 just for Rock Band if I could afford it. This just makes me sad that there's no DLC for the Wii. Also, you guys should note that his comments suggest no support for the GH3 Wii guitar and isn't definite (from this article at least.)

[Bigfoot]

I would buy a 360 just for Rock Band if I could afford it. This just makes me sad that there's no DLC for the Wii. Also, you guys should note that his comments suggest no support for the GH3 Wii guitar and isn't definite (from this article at least.)

"However, because the Wii's online capabilities and potential have yet to be fully realized, we wanted to wait before we explored online functionality for Rock Band to ensure that players get the high-quality of online performance they've come to expect."

[sephfire]

Losing DLC is the real tragedy here. The real multiplayer fun for Rock Band is local. Always has been.

It seems strange to me that Harmonix/EA would actually choose to gimp the Wii version's online capabilities, especially given how the Wii seems to be outselling everything. That's a huge audience to lose. I know Harmonix/EA probably could make it happen if they wanted to sink the money into it. If Nintendo's online system wasn't so pathetic, I don't think this problem would have come up.

I feel really sorry for you Wii-exclusive folk. You really don't want to miss the DLC for Rock Band. There are more downloadable songs than tracks on the disc. There's a Boston 6-pack tomorrow. :(

[Arek the Absolute]

For this bullshit, they better have exclusive songs like a billion songs from F-zero and metal versions of metroid songs or something cause this is just seriously fucking retarded.

[Bigfoot]

For this bullshit, they better have exclusive songs like a billion songs from F-zero and metal versions of metroid songs or something cause this is just seriously fucking retarded.

Yeah, playing Upper Crateria from MetroidMetal would be pretty sweet.

[IbanezNinja]

The wii is terrible, more at 11.

[Gorgonian14]

You see? This is why Xbox Wii60 is the best package. If you can afford it, there shouldn't be anything keeping you from owning both consoles.

Except that I don't want to play any of the xbox 360's games, including this one?

[atmuh]

Except that I don't want to play any of the xbox 360's games, including this one?

if youre telling me that you enjoy the wii and its extremely wide array of excellent AAA titles you amuse me

[JackR]

Well fuck you too, EA. Let me guess, you'll also go ahead and just give us a worthless PS2 port with graphics the N64 could have pulled off? And stick in mono sound while you're at it?

Why the hell do GH3 AND Rock Band both have to get the pine tree up the ass for the Wii versions?

[Dhsu]

The wii is terrible, more at 11.
Your posts are terrible, more hopefully never.

[Brushfire]

I told my friend Bailey that Nintendo secretly hates anybody who is not Nintendo.

He said that Rock Band on the Wii is gonna be the best of all.

I sure showed him.

[Majin GeoDooD]

Meh.. I wasn't gonna buy it anyway, could care less. I don't even touch GH3 for Wii since I've downloaded it for PC and hacked in GH1/2 songs.

[UnforgivingEdges]

if youre telling me that you enjoy the wii and its extremely wide array of excellent AAA titles you amuse me

laughingsmiley.gif

[Wintermute]

No DLC for the Wii version of Rock Band eh?

Aight, fuck you too EA. I'm not buying your gimped product.
Oh, and nobody can really blame this on the Nintendi Wii multiplayer setup (which as we all know sucks) because EA has already shown it can do its own infrastructure just fine.

[sephfire]

The Wii has almost no hard drive space and gimped online service. This news is disappointing, but it's not like it should come as a huge surprise.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

if youre telling me that you enjoy the wii and its extremely wide array of excellent AAA titles you amuse me

The wii is terrible, more at 11.

These two posts win at this thread and sum up my feelings on the console as well.

Terribly played Nintendo and EA. Terribly played.

[Gorgonian14]

if youre telling me that you enjoy the wii and its extremely wide array of excellent AAA titles you amuse me

If you're telling me you don't think it is possible to like Nintendo's games more than most other companies' games, you amuse me.

[Vivi22]

The Wii has almost no hard drive space and gimped online service. This news is disappointing, but it's not like it should come as a huge surprise.

Not only that, but it's my understanding that the systems storage can't even be expanded to allow for more downloaded content.

I find it amazing that people are shocked by this as well. Complaining about a system that lacks the ability to really support massive amounts of DLC and the worst online implementation this generation, receiving a game with no online features at all is pretty funny to be honest. Though if you want the real reason for no online multiplayer, it's likely because it's a straight PS2 port and EA doesn't care enough to alter it at all. Frankly, it's what happens when you have a system that's cheap to develop for and that popular. I'm sure there will be plenty of fools out there who buy it for the Wii and never notice or care that they're getting a straight port from a weaker system, and since EA will be making buttloads of money despite the lack of online, I can't blame them for not caring. Maybe if Wii owners stopped buying gimped ports of good games 3rd parties might start to give a crap about them.

If you're telling me you don't think it is possible to like Nintendo's games more than most other companies' games, you amuse me.

I don't think that's what he's saying; I think he means there's no AAA titles on the console except for Nintendo titles. That said, I wouldn't say anything Nintendo's done on the console so far is particularly amazing. They're so afraid of trying anything new lately that I'd swear they changed their name to Electronic Arts.

[anthonium]

Another one bites the dust.

[Gorgonian14]

I don't think that's what he's saying; I think he means there's no AAA titles on the console except for Nintendo titles. That said, I wouldn't say anything Nintendo's done on the console so far is particularly amazing. They're so afraid of trying anything new lately that I'd swear they changed their name to Electronic Arts.

I am unconcerned with what people consider AAA titles and whether or not people besides Nintendo have published them All I'm concerned with is that the games I want to play come out for the Wii at an almost 100% rate (I don't mean I want to play every Wii game by this, I mean that if a game comes out I want to play, it is almost always for the Wii), while the games for the Xbox 360 appeal to me at almost a 0% rate. There is no reason for me to purchase an Xbox 360. That is all I was pointing out.

To add to this, one of the biggest games of the year to me that is multi-platform is Pro Evolution Soccer 2008. It is far superior on the Wii over the other versions. I truly feel like what Konami has done with the Wii version of that game could revolutionize sports gaming on consoles (at least I hope so).

It doesn't bother me that some others don't share this view.

[tgfoo]

The Wii has almost no hard drive space and gimped online service. This news is disappointing, but it's not like it should come as a huge surprise.

I think that this is the most sensible thing said in this whole thread.

I know a lot of people who own Wii's and I don't think many of them will really miss online play (hell, most of the people I know who own it for the 360 wouldn't miss online play). If you really want the full enjoy ment out of the game you need 1-3 other people... playng in the same room with you. Playing online is basically the same as playing by yourself really. Yes, it is a cool option to have, but it really doesn't add a lot to the games enjoyment.

Sure they could have spent a bunch of money implementing a somewhat functional online system that most of the people who buy the game won't use very often. Or they could save the cash (and the hassle).

As for the graphics, do you think 90% of Wii owners are going to notice that it's a PS2 port? I don't.

[Overflow]

I find it interesting how often people focus on the graphics in games...
I wish we were all like Zero Punctuation, where graphics are only mentioned if they're outstanding.
As far as bad graphics in games like GHIII and RB go, really, when you're focused on little colored circles coming at you at top speed, whether the girl's hair moves or not really isn't going to bother you.

Plus, someone tell me that mario galaxy isn't a good game. Or brawl. Or metroid 3. Or zelda.
However, i agree that I can't think of a decent 3rd party game ;)

[Gorgonian14]

Plus, someone tell me that mario galaxy isn't a good game. Or brawl. Or metroid 3. Or zelda.
However, i agree that I can't think of a decent 3rd party game ;)

Zack & Wiki is fantastic.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Plus, someone tell me that mario galaxy isn't a good game. Or brawl. Or metroid 3. Or zelda.)

That's the whole point. There is virtually no decent third party support for the system. Period. Sure they might all be great games, but they're all first party. Not to mention that the focus as of late has been(and god I hate the fact that I'm saying this) pretty damned kiddy. Nintendo has turned itself into an elite club ala Apple. Now there's a company I know isn't getting a single dime from my pocket.

Of course I do agree with the sentiment that Rock Band is the kind of game that you really do enjoy it more when playing it in the same room with friends. Playing it by yourself online with other people is well... Like playing it with yourself.

It IS ass that there's no DLC for it whatsoever on the Wii version, but blame that on Nintendo's failure that is their Nintendo Network.

[shikigami]

well nintendo are a bunch of bitches when it comes to DLC.

im beginning to turn on them.

why is it that everything that was once awesome is now shit?

[Vivi22]

Plus, someone tell me that mario galaxy isn't a good game. Or brawl. Or metroid 3. Or zelda.

I've yet to play Metroid, but it isn't really that they're bad games so much as they're the same thing as their respective N64/Gamecube iterations all over again, except less innovative and creative (though I will maintain my belief that the Smash Bros. series is terrible until the day I die, and playing Brawl has done nothing but deepen this feeling. I get that tons of people like it, but damned if I understand why). I'd also argue that the Wii Nintendo games just aren't as fun as their predecessors, usually because of things that, while they aren't glaring flaws, really take away from the experience.

At the end of the day, I'll just never understand how people can rag on a series like Madden, or any number of others for rarely doing anything new, yet applaud Nintendo for giving us the same damn games 12 years later. This is the company that showed us 3D games could actually be fun after all. Apparently I'm in the minority for expecting more than the rehashes they try and sell us.

[Bahamut]

These two posts win at this thread and sum up my feelings on the console as well.

Terribly played Nintendo and EA. Terribly played.

Disagree - as far as I'm concerned, the Wii has close to the number of AAA titles as the 360. It's just that it doesn't have as many decent games. No console this gen so far has a lot of AAA titles, but that's just the way it goes in ~2 years of a console generation.

[eternal Zero]

It IS ass that there's no DLC for it whatsoever on the Wii version, but blame that on Nintendo's failure that is their Nintendo Network.

The real reason is lack of a hard drive. I can't blame Nintendo for this because it would only be more cost to those casual gamers they've been searching for and it was completely against their marketing idea for the Wii.

The worst bit is that people will have to buy two guitars to have a four person band. Even with the PS3 version they've been bitchy about what guitars can and cannot work with it. It's really stupid. Only the 360 got out well when their wired guitars still worked out just fine.

[Equinox]

Wii is gimped as hell on a multitude of levels, I'm not really sure why this RockBand news is a suprise.

[Dhsu]

I still don't get why SD cards wouldn't work for DLC. Let's say each pack is 100MB or so, you could still fit 20 of those suckers on a 2GB card. And if that's not enough, go out and buy another one, rinse, and repeat. Sure it can get expensive, but why not leave that decision up to the buyers?

That's the whole point. There is virtually no decent third party support for the system. Period. Sure they might all be great games, but they're all first party.
This is a problem why...?

People have been buying Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games since the N64, and the company's been doing all the better for it. In the end, good games are good games. Complaining that they're all first party is just as inane as complaining all of the good games on 360 or PS3 are third party.

[Bahamut]

Could be the read speeds off of the SD card - not sure how fast it reads them though.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

This is a problem why...?

Because as another poster pointed out, they keep making the same games.

People have been buying Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games since the N64, and the company's been doing all the better for it. In the end, good games are good games. Complaining that they're all first party is just as inane as complaining all of the good games on 360 or PS3 are third party.

Yeah, I guess because they can't get enough of the next slightly improved iteration of Ocarina of Time, Mario Kart, or Mario 64.

"Hey guys! Motion sensing! That's the new big thing!" Great. It's turned out to be gimmicky at best.

Yeah, their games might be solid(and I'm guilty of being a Mario Kart fan), and you're right, good games are still good games, but they haven't done much to bring anything totally fresh to the table other than continuously drag(and maim) their game series along. It certainly doesn't help that when cross-platform releases are made, the Wii as of now keeps getting the shaft.

To be totally honest, while I DO like my 360, right now I'm just not seeing the plethora of third party stuff that I saw during the PS2 generation. You can keep saying it doesn't make a big deal, but look at it this way. 3rd party developers equals more games, which also equals more good games. It also leads consumers to believe that the system has more support and therefore is a worthwhile buy. There's only one first party compared to dozens upon dozens of third parties.

Right now I'm pissed off at Nintendo because I'm a fan of Nintendo. I know what they've done before and it really pisses me off that the best they can do to "step up their game" is what they've done with the Wii and somewhat the DS.

This whole Rock Band debacle is only another nail in the proverbial coffin.

[EdgeCrusher]

I agree with the "its no surprise" crowd. No hard drive = no fun like this. Shame too, cause the game is great, but if all you have is a wii you have to play this gimped up version, or take the money for rock band and save it for another system.

[The Damned]

Wow. my boss and I were talking for about twenty minutes today about Wii games, and he seemed really interested in Rock Band for the Wii.

I don't think he knows about this yet.

Yeah, the disappointment was kind of funny. Poor guy.

[Dhsu]

Because as another poster pointed out, they keep making the same games.



Yeah, I guess because they can't get enough of the next slightly improved iteration of Ocarina of Time, Mario Kart, or Mario 64.

"Hey guys! Motion sensing! That's the new big thing!" Great. It's turned out to be gimmicky at best.

Yeah, their games might be solid(and I'm guilty of being a Mario Kart fan), and you're right, good games are still good games, but they haven't done much to bring anything totally fresh to the table other than continuously drag(and maim) their game series along. It certainly doesn't help that when cross-platform releases are made, the Wii as of now keeps getting the shaft.

To be totally honest, while I DO like my 360, right now I'm just not seeing the plethora of third party stuff that I saw during the PS2 generation. You can keep saying it doesn't make a big deal, but look at it this way. 3rd party developers equals more games, which also equals more good games. It also leads consumers to believe that the system has more support and therefore is a worthwhile buy. There's only one first party compared to dozens upon dozens of third parties.

Right now I'm pissed off at Nintendo because I'm a fan of Nintendo. I know what they've done before and it really pisses me off that the best they can do to "step up their game" is what they've done with the Wii and somewhat the DS.

This whole Rock Band debacle is only another nail in the proverbial coffin.
Honestly I don't even have time to finish the first party games on Wii. But if you've completely exhausted that library, well...you have a 360.

I don't even know what you're talking about with the DS, that thing is a freakin' 3rd party goldmine.

[Vivi22]

I still don't get why SD cards wouldn't work for DLC. Let's say each pack is 100MB or so, you could still fit 20 of those suckers on a 2GB card. And if that's not enough, go out and buy another one, rinse, and repeat. Sure it can get expensive, but why not leave that decision up to the buyers?

Probably for the same reason you can't run virtual console games off of an SD card. I don't know if it has anything to do with the read speed, but I do know that the console itself is limited to using it's internal memory for these. The real kicker is that a friend of mine in Software Engineering isn't even sure that it's something that a developer could work around. It may actually be impossible to get the system to read games and data from anywhere but internal memory. Toss in the fact that you're allocated a less then 300Mb for actual game storage purposes and you're left with almost nothing at all. Even if each song was 100Mb, you'd only get two on there, and only if you don't have a few of the larger virtual console games on there as well. If you wanted to play the songs, you'd be constantly moving virtual console games and Rock Band songs back and forth off of an external storage device. Honestly, it'd probably be enough hassle on the gamers end to have DLC to actually make it preferable not to have it from the developers stand point.

[Bahamut]

Yeah, I guess because they can't get enough of the next slightly improved iteration of Ocarina of Time, Mario Kart, or Mario 64.

"Hey guys! Motion sensing! That's the new big thing!" Great. It's turned out to be gimmicky at best.

Yeah, their games might be solid(and I'm guilty of being a Mario Kart fan), and you're right, good games are still good games, but they haven't done much to bring anything totally fresh to the table other than continuously drag(and maim) their game series along. It certainly doesn't help that when cross-platform releases are made, the Wii as of now keeps getting the shaft.

To be totally honest, while I DO like my 360, right now I'm just not seeing the plethora of third party stuff that I saw during the PS2 generation. You can keep saying it doesn't make a big deal, but look at it this way. 3rd party developers equals more games, which also equals more good games. It also leads consumers to believe that the system has more support and therefore is a worthwhile buy. There's only one first party compared to dozens upon dozens of third parties.

Right now I'm pissed off at Nintendo because I'm a fan of Nintendo. I know what they've done before and it really pisses me off that the best they can do to "step up their game" is what they've done with the Wii and somewhat the DS.

This whole Rock Band debacle is only another nail in the proverbial coffin.


You have to remember, Nintendo was in a tenuous position before the Wii's launch. If they catered to mainly hardcore gamers, they would've had another Gamecube on their hands in terms of sales, if not worse - many were expecting this to happen anyway. Nintendo opted to expand the market, and succeeded, so if there's anyone to blame for their direction, it's those who didn't support their product beforehand.

[Gorgonian14]

Because as another poster pointed out, they keep making the same games.

They keep making sequels to great games because that is what gamers want. It isn't as if they aren't making new IPs.

[atmuh]

dhsu it has been stated many times that the reason dlc does not work on wii is because sd card read speads
its REALLLLLY slow

[kitty]

I find it interesting how often people focus on the graphics in games...
I wish we were all like Zero Punctuation, where graphics are only mentioned if they're outstanding.
As far as bad graphics in games like GHIII and RB go, really, when you're focused on little colored circles coming at you at top speed, whether the girl's hair moves or not really isn't going to bother you.

It's not usually a main concern for me, but after playing RB on the 360 (rather fervently) it's hard for me to go play a dumbed down version of the game on the Wii. A lot of the fun in RB for me is the fact I get to customize my own character along with my friends. I like that option so much I'd get a 360 for RB alone since the Wii nor the PS2 have that feature. And even if they did, the graphics power of both systems wouldn't be able to render the characters like they were meant to be.

[atmuh]

just because the snes has the best graphics ever doesnt mean that 360 graphics dont make wii games look like balls

[Jam Stunna]

I think I can say that as of now, I'm very disappointed with all the next-gen systems, but the Wii's online system easily takes the cake.

Leave it to Nintendo to create an online system where you have to use a phone to setup matches.

[sephfire]

I think Nintendo's heart is in the right place, and I would understand if they kept using such irritating online systems to maintain their consoles' image as family-friendly gaming devices. But unless they figure out some way to make their safe online experience usable, I fear that they will really alienate the die-hard fan base they've been building for decades.

[UnforgivingEdges]

I think Nintendo's heart is in the right place, and I would understand if they kept using such irritating online systems to maintain their consoles' image as family-friendly gaming devices. But unless they figure out some way to make their safe online experience usable, I fear that they will really alienate the die-hard fan base they've been building for decades.

The important part about this is that they don't care. Their biggest marketing push this year will be or Wii Fit. Nintendo is perfectly happy to rake in billions of dollars on the backs of soccer moms and casual gamers around the world, knowing that their loyal followers will chase after their coattails like loyal puppies. Nintendo will be the next, more elaborate PopCap.

[Bigfoot]

If only Nintendo would be like this:

"Hey, we have the 'casual' gamer market, so now let's make a 'hardcore' gaming console that has a hard drive, no friend codes and amazing online treatment."

But yeah, that'll be the day :\

[megadave]

All I have to say is that I finally played rock band (the 360 version), and it's totally awesome. I preferred the vocals over everything else. I think this could really help my singing which is really not that good. There was a thread a week or two ago that asks if rock band could actually improve musical skills. Well, I'll change my mind and say "yes", because it could definitely improve my vocals. So, even though I can't afford rock band, it's inspired me to buy a game that uses a mic. Any recommendations?

Also, Nintendo's always 20 years in the past and 20 years in the future. They never look at the present. That's why their online sucks. I bet they had better online in the 80's.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

If only Nintendo would be like this:

"Hey, we have the 'casual' gamer market, so now let's make a 'hardcore' gaming console that has a hard drive, no friend codes and amazing online treatment."

But yeah, that'll be the day :\

Until then, people could just buy a 360.

[Least100Seraphs]

I don't know if I'd call paying a monthly fee to be called a nigger over a laggy peer to peer connection "amazing online treatment", but hey. Horses for courses.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

I usually mute the mic if it gets out of hand, but I haven't had to deal with too much of that shit. I usually party up with my friends anyway, so we all have a blast.

And as the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. 50 bucks a year for a relatively solid online system that only really depends on what kind of connection you have as opposed to a service that will literally leave you crying. But hey, Horses for courses.

[Nekofrog]

Horses for courses?

What the hell does that mean? :\

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Horses for courses?

What the hell does that mean? :\

I actually had to look it up... :\

[megadave]

Well, although this game is surely gimped, Nintendo is making a pay to play service and I bet it has something to do with the following:

1. Nintendo is a money-hog and they want more money.

2. Even Nintendo fans are tired of shitty online service so they're going to have to shell out cash.

3. Maybe that means Nintendo will realize that a 20 gig $50 hard drive isn't such a bad idea after all.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Wii. It's my favorite console, but even a fanboy has to fess up and call its hero out when it is failing.

[Majin GeoDooD]

Don't get me wrong. I love the Wii. It's my favorite console, but even a fanboy has to fess up and call its hero out when it is failing.

Exactly.. I was having a conversation last night with a coworker about the current gen. I love Nintendo and I love the Wii, but I had no problem pointing out its shortcomings and praising the 360 (which I don't own).

[megadave]

Yeah, I don't know for sure how it got that way. I used to rip on anything that wasn't Nintendo, but I guess I did that when Nintendo didn't get the appreciation it deserved. Now that they're popular again, I'm not as bitter towards the rivals.

[Penfold]

Well, although this game is surely gimped, Nintendo is making a pay to play service and I bet it has something to do with the following:

1. Nintendo is a money-hog and they want more money.

2. Even Nintendo fans are tired of shitty online service so they're going to have to shell out cash.

3. Maybe that means Nintendo will realize that a 20 gig $50 hard drive isn't such a bad idea after all.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Wii. It's my favorite console, but even a fanboy has to fess up and call its hero out when it is failing.

Here's hoping that the Wii gets a hard drive/actual SD card functionality in the near future. I wouldn't mind at all paying for the online service and paying for the hard drive, just so long as I can get a damn hard drive (I actually had to delete VC games just to make enough room for Brawl's save file).

[megadave]

I had to delete some of my N64 games. I got the Milon Fantasy Adventure game, and I tell you, it is a trip. I mean, crazy Japanese trippy all the way, and the music is in real stereo - That's rare for an SNES game. But I guess we're all in agreement here so there's nothing left for me to say.

[zircon]

Erm doesn't the Wii HAVE a hard drive...? Where is it downloading VC games to?

[megadave]

A tiny little 512 megabyte flash drive.

[Triad Orion]

I just wanted to bring up a point in a flaw of logic I saw earlier when discussing Nintendo's major franchises being "maimed" when "slightly improved" versions get released for new consoles.

...How can a franchise be maimed if the games are technically getting better? I don't want to sound like a dick, but to me, that sounds like how it should be going. Especially if the demand is there. If nothing else, we should consider ourselves lucky that Nintendo hasn't started completely phoning in most of their big name titles and that they're still largely AAA.

That said, I do agree with a lot of people on the weaknesses of the console. The lack of a hard-drive, an XBL style online matchmaking system, etc. are all a major problem. The matchmaking system in particular is a grave problem because if EA of all companies makes a decent one? Someone's doing it wrong!

Though gutting Rock Band after MOH's reasonable system? ...The logic eludes me.

The lack of third party support does fall into our laps too, as gamers. It's a vicious cycle; on the GCN, we didn't buy a lot of the exclusives because the PS2 and X-Box were the big sellers here in the states. The problem for third party developers is that paradigm still carries over into this generation, and thus third party games aren't as frequently produced because they still view the Wii has high risk. This kills us because we don't have any third party titles to buy on the Wii, and when we don't have titles to buy, the companies take that as a reason not to produce for that market. We pretty much have to make noise and indicate we want stuff on the Wii and then follow through.

I think Bahamut's earlier point on not supporting the third party games on the GameCube was right on the money, and I think that's come back to haunt both gamers and Nintendo. Money talks, so if you want more third party games, go out and actually buy the decent third party games that come out on the Wii like No More Heroes or Zack and Wiki.

It should be obvious by now that I own a Wii and enjoy it immensely. But I too, am aware of its flaws and really wish they'd be rectified so the product would be better.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

I'm still amazed that Nintendo has so many throngs of hardcore fans lying around. I mean, you'd think that anyone who was alive for the NES to the mid-N64 days would know that Nintendo has taken a serious dive bomb in terms of quality. Which isn't to say that they're making shit games, but they've been making piss poor decision after piss poor decision ever since the 'Cube. This current state of affairs just further proves that fact.

Which isn't to say that every console out there is without flaw, but it just seems that Nintendo is this generation's court jester. It makes me cry. At least the DS is holding up though(where the hell is FFIV U.S., damnit!! >.<).

[Vivi22]

The lack of third party support does fall into our laps too, as gamers. It's a vicious cycle; on the GCN, we didn't buy a lot of the exclusives because the PS2 and X-Box were the big sellers here in the states. The problem for third party developers is that paradigm still carries over into this generation, and thus third party games aren't as frequently produced because they still view the Wii has high risk. This kills us because we don't have any third party titles to buy on the Wii, and when we don't have titles to buy, the companies take that as a reason not to produce for that market. We pretty much have to make noise and indicate we want stuff on the Wii and then follow through.

I think Bahamut's earlier point on not supporting the third party games on the GameCube was right on the money, and I think that's come back to haunt both gamers and Nintendo. Money talks, so if you want more third party games, go out and actually buy the decent third party games that come out on the Wii like No More Heroes or Zack and Wiki.

I don't think the problem lies so much with people not buying third party titles for the Wii so much as it's too cheap and easy for them to put out casual games and shovelware for next to nothing and earn a lot of money off of it with relatively few sales. In fact, by bringing in the more casual gaming crowd who want stuff more along the lines of Peggle than MGS or FF, Nintendo pretty much guaranteed that a lot of developers would go for the quick buck. That's not to say every developer does it, but there's no denying that the games from third parties that appeal to your hardcore gaming crowd are few and far between, and mostly from Nintendo. So we end up in a bit of a vicious cycle; there's a guaranteed audience for your Metal Gear's, Final Fantasy's and Gears of War on the 360 and PS3, and a guaranteed buck to be made by pumping out cheap, easy to make casual games on the Wii. The disconnect here is that the best way to see more hardcore games come out on the Wii would be to have decent ports of hardcore games from the other systems, but since you can't do a straight port, you usually either end up with a vastly inferior version, or something thrown together by a different dev team and, well, we know how that usually goes. Unless developers put forth the effort to take a chance on putting some good hardcore games on the Wii, we'll never see it break out of the casual gaming mold.

[Dhsu]

Which isn't to say that every console out there is without flaw, but it just seems that Nintendo is this generation's court jester.
I would be too if it boosted my profits up by 77%!

[Triad Orion]

I don't think the problem lies so much with people not buying third party titles for the Wii so much as it's too cheap and easy for them to put out casual games and shovelware for next to nothing and earn a lot of money off of it with relatively few sales. In fact, by bringing in the more casual gaming crowd who want stuff more along the lines of Peggle than MGS or FF, Nintendo pretty much guaranteed that a lot of developers would go for the quick buck. That's not to say every developer does it, but there's no denying that the games from third parties that appeal to your hardcore gaming crowd are few and far between, and mostly from Nintendo. So we end up in a bit of a vicious cycle; there's a guaranteed audience for your Metal Gear's, Final Fantasy's and Gears of War on the 360 and PS3, and a guaranteed buck to be made by pumping out cheap, easy to make casual games on the Wii. The disconnect here is that the best way to see more hardcore games come out on the Wii would be to have decent ports of hardcore games from the other systems, but since you can't do a straight port, you usually either end up with a vastly inferior version, or something thrown together by a different dev team and, well, we know how that usually goes. Unless developers put forth the effort to take a chance on putting some good hardcore games on the Wii, we'll never see it break out of the casual gaming mold.

I guess the real trick here is to demand companies to produce these games for the Wii. The problem lies in getting them to listen; as you say, it's easy to make shovelware for a quick buck to pray off the uninformed. The thing is enough Wii owners have to make enough noise one way or another demanding more "hardcore" games. It's a difficult position, considering companies don't like risks and don't care about consumer desires unless it suits their needs and serves to make them money. Not a slight, but the truth.

That's why I suggest buying what hardcore games DO come out for the Wii. It's the most powerful method consumers have to tell developers what they want: Purchasing Power.

[UnforgivingEdges]

I guess the real trick here is to demand companies to produce these games for the Wii. The problem lies in getting them to listen; as you say, it's easy to make shovelware for a quick buck to pray off the uninformed. The thing is enough Wii owners have to make enough noise one way or another demanding more "hardcore" games. It's a difficult position, considering companies don't like risks and don't care about consumer desires unless it suits their needs and serves to make them money. Not a slight, but the truth.

That's why I suggest buying what hardcore games DO come out for the Wii. It's the most powerful method consumers have to tell developers what they want: Purchasing Power.

Or you could, you know, save some money an buy a system that has your favorite franchises on it.

[Bigfoot]

Everyone and their mother better buy Okami when it comes out for the Wii then. I know I am because I missed out.

[Bahamut]

I'm still amazed that Nintendo has so many throngs of hardcore fans lying around. I mean, you'd think that anyone who was alive for the NES to the mid-N64 days would know that Nintendo has taken a serious dive bomb in terms of quality. Which isn't to say that they're making shit games, but they've been making piss poor decision after piss poor decision ever since the 'Cube. This current state of affairs just further proves that fact.

Which isn't to say that every console out there is without flaw, but it just seems that Nintendo is this generation's court jester. It makes me cry. At least the DS is holding up though(where the hell is FFIV U.S., damnit!! >.<).

I don't know how you can say that Nintendo has been making piss poor decision after piss poor decision when they're dominating in terms of profits. Obviously they are doing things right if they are making so much money and even overtook Sony as one of Japan's top 10 most valuable companies.

Not to say that they are making the best decisions with respect to hardcore fans, but Nintendo abandoned them after they abandoned Nintendo.

[Triad Orion]

Everyone and their mother better buy Okami when it comes out for the Wii then. I know I am because I missed out.

Same here. I didn't own a PS2, so the news of Okami coming to Wii is great. May not be an exclusive, but damn, is it nice to have.

[Overflow]

Not to say that they are making the best decisions with respect to hardcore fans, but Nintendo abandoned them after they abandoned Nintendo.

QFT. I don't know where the drop happened; everyone agrees that the N64 was the best of its time (the PS1 was kind of meh), but once the cube cam out, BOOM! all the support from consumers goes down the tubes.
I honestly don't know what happened. I know the cube had next to nil 3rd party, but HOW did it get that way is what I want to know.

[Nekofrog]

QFT. I don't know where the drop happened; everyone agrees that the N64 was the best of its time (the PS1 was kind of meh)

It was at this point where my bullshit radar went off.

[Bahamut]

QFT. I don't know where the drop happened; everyone agrees that the N64 was the best of its time (the PS1 was kind of meh), but once the cube cam out, BOOM! all the support from consumers goes down the tubes.
I honestly don't know what happened. I know the cube had next to nil 3rd party, but HOW did it get that way is what I want to know.

As much as I loved my N64, I really think the PS1 was probably better (I missed out on a lot of PS1 games back then, played mostly RPGs due to lack of money to buy games). It really had so much more than the N64 did, although the N64 was king for multiplayer.

[CC Ricers]

EA is just trying to feed the Wii poison as far as I can tell.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Everyone remember playing Goldeneye with friends and never once bitching about how annoying split-screen was?

Now when I play Halo, all my friends are like "Waahh! The screen is too small!"

[Bahamut]

Everyone remember playing Goldeneye with friends and never once bitching about how annoying split-screen was?

Now when I play Halo, all my friends are like "Waahh! The screen is too small!"

People have gotten spoiled. Screencheating has been annoying in Goldeneye though.

[sgx]

Online multiplayer in Rock Band and Guitar Hero is worthless.

DLC is awesome though. It probably wasn't worth their time to try to implement it - they probably just ported over the PS2 version to the Wii, and the fact that there's only 512 mb of storage means you're only going to be able to buy at most 20 ish songs (songs are usually like 25-40 mb on xbox live). DLC is a next-gen feature - if you wanted real DLC, you need to get a real next-gen console.


Oh, and I'm off to download "Still Alive" for free for Rock Band (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/03/31/rock-band-weekly-still-alive-free-tomorrow-on-xbm-april-17-for/). Too bad for Wii :(

[Bahamut]

I'm probably one of the few people that online multiplayer is all I got for Rock Band - I've isolated myself when it comes to being in my apartment, so no Rock Band multiplayer in person for me.

[Equinox]

wtf, this song is retarded easy, still alive that is

[UnforgivingEdges]

EA is just trying to feed the Wii poison as far as I can tell.

What does this even mean?

[Vivi22]

QFT. I don't know where the drop happened; everyone agrees that the N64 was the best of its time (the PS1 was kind of meh), but once the cube cam out, BOOM! all the support from consumers goes down the tubes.
I honestly don't know what happened. I know the cube had next to nil 3rd party, but HOW did it get that way is what I want to know.

Don't remember that era very well do you?

The PSX took a little longer to start taking off and the N64 started strong, but 3rd parties started to drift away from the N64 before too long, and the consumers went too. 3rd parties liked CD's more as did consumers, and who could blame them since they held more and some N64 games were twice as expensive as PSX games early on. The N64 started Nintendo's support loss, and this only continued with the Cube, especially when the PS2 managed to outsell just about every system ever made (though while we're on that topic, the PSX sold a ridiculous amount as well). People generally regard the PSX as having the better game lineup overall, though the N64 had it's moments, and was better for multiplayer.

[Shadow Wolf]

Nobody's screwing Nintendo, they're developing on whatever system will sell the most games and let them develop it how they want. For example:

I think most people have to admit at this point that the N64 certainly LOOKED better than the PSX, by a long shot. Any side by side comparison of a game that released on both systems will show that. But the reason the PSX rocketed to the top of the market is that it was incredibly cheap for developers to simply use more than one disc for a game. See Squaresoft for further info. They could put beautiful cutscenes in their games to advance incredibly long stories, all for less than the cost of releasing on a cartridge. Cartridges didn't have the space the developers needed anymore.

Moving into the Gamecube era, in October 2000, the PS2 released, and it was much like the second coming of Christ. The system simply dug in and fortified an incredibly solid market position for years to come. The Gamecube didn't have a chace in hell of getting on top of it, especially not with how well the new X-Box was received as well. What was the problem with Gamecube? Why couldn't it draw developers to make larger and better games for it? Once again, I'd say that at least one of the reasons was that Nintendo, just like they did with the N64, was using outdated storage mediums. They opted to go with the 1.4 gig minidiscs when every other system was using 4.7 gig full size DVDs, and even later on dual layer DVDs. They didn't have the storage space so many developers want.

Now, Nintendo has done it again. In order to stay on the cheap side, they've given us a system that uses 4.7 gig discs when the rest of the gaming world is moving on to Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, with 25 to 50 gigs of storage PER DISC. Furthermore, they haven't even given us music CD playback with the Wii, an option that was built into the Playstation ONE that released 13 years ago. They did the same thing with DVD playback, an option found in the PS2 that released 8.5 years ago. I understand Nintendo's position that most people have those machines already, and I understand they don't want their systems to be multimedia machines, but a.) Multimedia machines are what a large chunk of the market wants these days and b.) when you could add something like that by simply writing a few more lines of code into your firmware, it's ludicrous to NOT have it. Fact of the matter is, I've used my PS2 for DVD playback since 2002. My PS2 was crapping out on that end in 2007, so I was excited when I bought the Wii because I thought I was getting a DVD player as well. Imagine my surprise. So I went out and had to buy a cheap ass DVD player for a year, and now I use my PS3 for DVD playback. Anyone else catching the irony? I didn't have a standalone DVD player like Nintendo thought I would, and I bought their system with one of the (minor) selling points being its supposed DVD playback. Turns out Sony's media behemoths are the only ones I can rely on to give me that. I would imagine this happens to consumers far more than Nintendo would like to think.

I love Nintendo's games, and they've released some excellent and wonderfully fun stuff for their systems, but that's the key word, "they." I haven't bought a Nintendo system since the SNES for the third party games. I buy them knowing that the main reason for it was Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Donkey Kong, and every other awesome first party franchise that simply isn't going to move to any other system. If I want excellent third party games, I buy a PS2 or PS3. That's where I get the Final Fantasy games, Metal Gear Solid, etc.

The point is, gone are the days when people can only own one system to have their cake and eat it too. They were gone all the way back when the SNES and Genesis were competing and people wanted to play Mario AND Sonic. For some reason the fanboys turned it into a landwar in the N64/PSX generation and now for some reason it seems to be earth-shatteringly important that the system you own is on top of the market. Why? Buy what you need to play the games. It's about having fun anyhow. But my main point is that I personally think Nintendo should rethink their stance on jacking up the cost of a system by 100 to give us more options. People have shown that they'll willingly shuck out 500-700 dollars for a media center system like the 360 or PS3. If I was Nintendo I'd be on it like white on rice on a paper plate with a glass of milk in a snowstorm.

[Overflow]

@Shadow Wolf
Except for one major thing you missed:
Nintendo is making RIDICULOUS amounts of money on the Wii. That's because it's the cheapest and most user-friendly. Almost any person of any age can play and enjoy the Wii. I heard that even the Queen of England plays the Wii. Because of its crazy success, it's unlikely that Nintendo's going to change its strategy when it seems to be working so well.
Only the hardcore gamers buy the 360 or PS3. You don't often see some middle aged couple or parents with young kids get a PS3.

But about the PSX, the only AAA games I know for it are Crash Bandicoot 1-3, Gran tourismo 1-2, Omega boost, and FF7. While for N64 there was smash bros, Mario 64, LOZ: OoT and MM, Mario party, Goldeneye, Kirby 64, Mario kart, mario tennis, Banjo kazooie, Banjo tooie, and Rouge squadron. Did I miss something the PSX had(aside from cheap disks) that made it take first place?

[sephfire]

But about the PSX, the only AAA games I know for it are Crash Bandicoot 1-3, Gran tourismo 1-2, Omega boost, and FF7. Did I miss something the PSX had(aside from cheap disks) that made it take first place?

I was an N64 owner myself during that era, but the PSX had way more than just those games going for it.

[Vivi22]

Now, Nintendo has done it again. In order to stay on the cheap side, they've given us a system that uses 4.7 gig discs when the rest of the gaming world is moving on to Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, with 25 to 50 gigs of storage PER DISC.

Nitpicking a bit, but the 360 uses regular DVD's.

But about the PSX, the only AAA games I know for it are Crash Bandicoot 1-3, Gran tourismo 1-2, Omega boost, and FF7. While for N64 there was smash bros, Mario 64, LOZ: OoT and MM, Mario party, Goldeneye, Kirby 64, Mario kart, mario tennis, Banjo kazooie, Banjo tooie, and Rouge squadron. Did I miss something the PSX had(aside from cheap disks) that made it take first place?

Well, aside from the ones you mentioned, there was also MGS, Silent Hill, Resident Evil 1-3, FF8, FF9, Parasite Eve, Syphon Filter 1&2, Chrono Cross, FF Tactics, Castlevania Symphony of the Night, Dino Crisis, and Medal of Honor. And I got those without even bothering to name any games I don't own. I would like to point out as well that you missed Perfect Dark on your N64 list. It was better than Goldeneye if you ask me.

[Nekofrog]

You're making a huge mistake in only counting "AAA" games, though. The N64's "AAA" games were pretty much the ONLY games worth playing on the system, whilst the PS1 had a SHITLOAD of "AAA" games as well as games that were good/great.

Tell you what, I'll compile a list of good/great/AAA games for the PS1, and you do the same for the N64. Then we'll see which system was better in terms of software.

Ready? In no particular order, up to the year 2001 because I need to go to lunch (I'll keep going once I get back)

Good
Ridge Racer
Battle Arena Toshinden
Tekken
Jumping Flash!
Twisted Metal
Alien Trilogy (far better on the PS1 than the PC)
Mega Man X3
Vandal Hearts
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain
Mega Man 8
Bushido Blade
Die Hard Trilogy
SaGa Frontier
Azure Dreams
Tales of Destiny
Xenogears
Brave Fencer Musashi
Star Ocean: The Second Story
Final Fantasy VIII (arguable, I find it terrible)
Dino Crisis
Vandal Hearts II
Resident Evil 3: Nemesis (arguable, I find it terrible)
Wild ARMs 2
Wild ARMs
Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage!
Chrono Cross
Parasite Eve II (arguable, I find it terrible)
Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth
Syphon Filter 2
Dino Crisis 2
Tales of Eternia

Great
Mega Man X4
Alundra
Einhänder
Tomba!
Tekken 2
Crash Bandicoot: Warped
MediEvil
Tomb Raider III
Syphon Filter
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete
Breath of Fire IV
Final Fantasy IX
Spyro: Year of the Dragon

AAA
Dragon Quest VII
Resident Evil
Crash Bandicoot
Tomb Raider
Final Fantasy VII
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Final Fantasy Tactics
Breath of Fire III
Resident Evil: Director's Cut
Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back
Tomb Raider II
Mega Man Legends
Resident Evil 2
Parasite Eve
Tekken 3
Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete
Metal Gear Solid
Spyro the Dragon
Suikoden II
Suikoden
Silent Hill
Ape Escape
Gran Turismo 2
Vagrant Story
Mega Man Legends 2

[Bahamut]

Why does everyone like X4? It was way too easy - I liked X5 a lot more.

I like Tales of Eternia more than Tales of Destiny (also for the PS1 - the comboing was just done great, and some parts of the game are tough as hell, but fairly so. It was released as Tales of Destiny 2 for some stupid reason).

And good god, I hate Lunar 2: Eternal Blue for the some of the shittest grinding in an RPG & for the heartbreaking final boss.

[Dhsu]

Was the Mega Man Legends series really that good? The reviews always seemed to be lukewarm when it came out.

[Nekofrog]

Yes.

There is a reason that most of the Megaman fandom wants MMX and the Battle Network series to just die completely, and for a Legends 3 to be made.

But Capcom would rather pump out more shit than gold.

[OA]

well after discussing the exclusion of downloadable songs on the Wii with my pretend-guitarist/wife, we have decided to buy a 360 specifically for Rock Band.

I still think internet play is not a selling point, but the lack of DLC is a dealbreaker for us.

I am certain they are going to sell the hell out of this when it comes out, but they made the whole thing kindof expensive for us, especially since I can't think of any other 360 games i'd really want to play at the moment to help justify the purchase. Except for the re-release of bionic commando I guess :-)

[Nekofrog]

Ghostbusters 3.

[sephfire]

well after discussing the exclusion of downloadable songs on the Wii with my pretend-guitarist/wife, we have decided to buy a 360 specifically for Rock Band.

I still think internet play is not a selling point, but the lack of DLC is a dealbreaker for us.

You won't regret that decision. Rock Band and it's DLC are worth buying a 360.

[Triad Orion]

Yes.

There is a reason that most of the Megaman fandom wants MMX and the Battle Network series to just die completely, and for a Legends 3 to be made.

But Capcom would rather pump out more shit than gold.

Offtopic, but QFT. Admittedly, I like the ZX series for its faithfulness to the classic Mega Man formula, but seriously. Classic and Legends. Want more of that.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Yes.

There is a reason that most of the Megaman fandom wants MMX and the Battle Network series to just die completely, and for a Legends 3 to be made.

But Capcom would rather pump out more shit than gold.

QFFE

Seriously, I played through Legends(as MM64), and got to play around with Legends 2. Those games were BOSS.

They seriously need to get their shit together and keep the legends series going.

[Equinox]

The Megaman Legends series were my favorites of the Megaman franchise, and i would prefer they stay finished.

[Nekofrog]

MML2 ended on a cliffhanger. Megaman is on the moon, and we don't know the fate of any of the characters involved.

It is completely unresolved.

[Equinox]

You're right, i vaguely remembered what the end of MML2 was. So in other words, disregard that, i suck cocks.

(It could use an appropriate ending)