Any GOOD reason to use ProTools?

[The Pezman]

Besides "everyone else does?" I used it for Recording & editing class, and it was a bitch negotiating the soundcard versus that stupid hardware add-on they required.

So, anyone use Protools who finds it genuinely superior to other DAWs on the market?

[Tensei]

I think the assumption that "everyone uses ProTools" is a wrong one. ProTools USED to be the industry standard because they were ahead of their time but other programs (especially Logic, possibly Cubase, Sonar, FL etc.) have caught up.

I really don't think anyone here uses ProTools because even the cheapest (M-Powered) version requires a stupid hardware add-on and simply because it just isn't that good of a bargain compared to other options nowadays.

[Fishy]

From what I hear its just a generally bitchin' DAW.

I think its a lot more complicated then most, but only because it has so many features. There's nothing really wrong with the DAWs Tensai mentioned though, so I wouldn't waste your money unless you actually have an urgent audiophilic lust for something to sound EXACTLY as you want it.

A lot of mainstream music has been produced in Logic more recently, so I don't know if I would still call it the industry standard, but its definately the industry classic.

[Moseph]

If you're already familiar with Pro Tools and really like it, use it. Otherwise, don't. I used it in school (but don't own it myself) and I can still edit faster with it than with any other program.

[tgfoo]

The thing about ProTools being the "industry standard" is, ProTools HD is the "industry standard." PTHD is also a minimum investment of 10k. Most major recording and post production studios still use ProTools HD. Why? Not necessarily because it's better than everything else, but many of the engineers have been using it for years. It's what they're familiar with and they probably know it better than the back of their hand. To give it it's dues, it is geared towards and very good at recording and mixing audio (a lot of PT's midi functionality is actually fairly recent and it's still trying to catch up to many of the other major DAWs).

ProTools LE/M-powered on the other hand is a very watered down version of PT. There are many things in it's same budget range that are better and less limiting than it. But there are good reasons to use it.

1) You like and enjoy using PT
2) You want to learn it for whatever reason
3) You frequently need to exchange projects with someone else who uses PT

[zircon]

A lot of studios use ProTools because of its hardware/software integration. It's partially DSP-powered, which, while less relevant today now that we have faster computers, is still very nice. The audio editing really is pretty much unmatched, IMO; it's incredibly powerful in that respect. I've used both HD|2 and HD|3 systems at school as well as Mbox2 systems and even then, the ease of use of the audio editing is apparent.

Surprisingly, I actually prefer PT's MIDI editing to Logic, having used both side by side.

[Wiesty]

Pro tools is still generally considered the standard. Hands down, it is the best for mastering and recording, however if your looking to create midi heavy songs its probably not going to be your first choice.

[SnappleMan]

DSP power is even more important these days because audio processing is getting some serious upgrades. Most of the best sounding plugins are DSP only, and a well designed PTHD system is nearly limitless in terms of processing power.

BUT! Keep in mind that DSP processing is not exclusive to ProTools. While their HD systems are insanely powerful and capable, they can be matched by Cubase and Sonar in comparable DSP environments.

[SnappleMan]

Pro tools is still generally considered the standard. Hands down, it is the best for mastering and recording, however if your looking to create midi heavy songs its probably not going to be your first choice.

You're wrong. Protools has been severely outmatched in every aspect of music creation. Sonar and Cubase are both more powerful, easier to use, and easier to integrate, which is why they're becoming the new standard. (Almost every professional I talk to uses Sonar or Cubase/Nuendo).

The only reason people still use protools is because they spent $500,000 on the entire system 15 years ago.

[tweek]

The only reason people still use protools is because they spent $500,000 on the entire system 15 years ago.

Dude, I hate to call you out, but that's a crock of shit.

ProTools, while I may hate the interface and the fact that it doesn't support VST, is still the industry standard. The HD systems are unmatched. The practically limitless processing power of the HD systems are a complete godsend and no other DAW company has been able to create hardware/software as powerful as that.

I may despise the program, but it's the industry standard, both in the past and now, for a reason. People still buy these sinfully expensive Digi Design packages even now. To say, "Protools has been severely outmatched in every aspect of music creation" is a rather bold statement considering that they still remain on top.

I defy you to show me a majority of major projects for film, music, TV, etc. that does not have Pro Tools being used.

If you're looking to get into the music/sound business, learn Pro Tools, you WILL use it.

If you're a hobbyist, go with what you like.

[Argle]

ProTools is VASTLY overrated, and expensive. The only reason it's the industry standard is 15 years ago there wasn't anything else. The only reason studios use these days it cuz they've invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in it.

[tweek]

ProTools is VASTLY overrated, and expensive. The only reason it's the industry standard is 15 years ago there wasn't anything else. The only reason studios use these days it cuz they've invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in it.

Either you haven't read the posts in the thread and figured you'd throw in your uninformed opinion, or you did read the posts and thought it would be a good idea to repeat, nearly verbatim, what Snappleman said not 2 posts before yours.

Regardless, prove your statement true. I beg you to try.

[Argle]

"Prove" it? Um, no thanks. :lol: But I didn't read Snapples post and yea he did say pretty much the same thing. :oops:

[Yoozer]

"Prove" it? Um, no thanks. :lol:
You make the claim, you provide the evidence, otherwise it's painfully obvious that you're talking out of your ass.

Step away for a moment from the idea that because you can make music with a $99 copy of FL Studio (or even cheaper) you don't have to splurge the big bucks for a PT system.

[OverCoat]

Short version:
nope!

long version:
lol, what? no. Even Adobe Audition is more versatile than ProTools right now.

[tweek]

Even Adobe Audition is more versatile than ProTools right now.

It's apparent to me that you really don't know how Pro Tools works if you can sit there and honestly say that.

Maybe that's a strange form of sarcasm that I'm not picking up on.

You do NOT have to love Pro Tools to be able to see just how effective it is. I may hate using PT, but I have to give credit where it is most certainly due.

[SnappleMan]

Dude, I hate to call you out, but that's a crock of shit.

ProTools, while I may hate the interface and the fact that it doesn't support VST, is still the industry standard. The HD systems are unmatched. The practically limitless processing power of the HD systems are a complete godsend and no other DAW company has been able to create hardware/software as powerful as that.

I may despise the program, but it's the industry standard, both in the past and now, for a reason. People still buy these sinfully expensive Digi Design packages even now. To say, "Protools has been severely outmatched in every aspect of music creation" is a rather bold statement considering that they still remain on top.

I defy you to show me a majority of major projects for film, music, TV, etc. that does not have Pro Tools being used.

If you're looking to get into the music/sound business, learn Pro Tools, you WILL use it.

If you're a hobbyist, go with what you like.

Hahaha, dude, you don't know what you're talking about. The ONLY thing ProTools HD has going for it is processing power. Audio and midi editing are both much better on Cubase, Sonar and Logic. I've worked on feature films, and I am in regular contact with people in the film and video game industry, they almost all use Nuendo or Sonar. Unlike you, I speak from experience.

[Skrypnyk]

From what I've been told, Pro Tools is the north american standard when it comes to making commercial music.

However, the people I know who make commercial music prefer using Cubase rather then PT.



my 1/2 cent.

[tweek]

Unlike you, I speak from experience.

You're exactly right. Because I'm the studio manager here (www.hummingbirdproductions.com) and also have connections to the film, radio, and television industry, I must not know anything.....

While I won't argue that midi editing on PT certainly leaves something to be desired, Pro Tools audio editing capabilities are among the strongest on the market.

You also speak as though processing power means nothing. Come back and talk after you've finished mixing sound for a movie or television show when you are working with 150 or more stemmed out tracks.

[zircon]

Absolutely. PT is pretty much designed for handling huge amounts of audio, and no program I've used does so with such ease. Whereas I hear regular complaints about Cubase & Logic stability issues (and have experienced both first hand), PT is rock-solid. I don't think I've ever had it crash on me or anyone I know in the years I've been here at Drexel, where all the studios are PT.

[Wiesty]

I think people should really know what Protools is capable of before they pass it off. Many of you will never have to use 89% of the things it can because lets face it, your just remixing, so a program such as Cubase is perfect. But for any serious industry stuff, Pro tools is number one. It is used by almost any audio institution and most professional sound studios. It has an amazing bus system and its hardware compatibility is unbeatable.

[Yoozer]

I think people should really know what Protools is capable of before they pass it off. Many of you will never have to use 89% of the things it can because lets face it, your just remixing, so a program such as Cubase is perfect.

Ahahahaha. You might as well assume that you'll never use 90% of the stuff in Cubase, either.

It has an amazing bus system and its hardware compatibility is unbeatable.
That's because it's made and supported by the same company, and it advises the owners to not upgrade their computers for a while until they've ironed the bugs out.

[1makes2]

ok
pro tools Still IS THE Industry standard. many project studios and small recording studios use cubase and sonar, but the D/A A/D conversion in protools with an HD card is UNMATCHED. so with that said.
If you are doing long recording sessions with multiple clients, the ease of editing in protools and the quick keys (shortcuts) are far superior to cubase/fl. i havent seen fl8 yet but i hear the wave editing has gotten really good. Pro tools is REALLY EXPENSIVE. (thats the only thing wrong with protools, they get you by selling you a TON of HARDWARE!!!)

damn dsp.....

[Lunahorum]

as far as money goes, reaper is the industry standard.

[Wiesty]

lol........................

[SnappleMan]

You're exactly right. Because I'm the studio manager here (www.hummingbirdproductions.com) and also have connections to the film, radio, and television industry, I must not know anything.....

While I won't argue that midi editing on PT certainly leaves something to be desired, Pro Tools audio editing capabilities are among the strongest on the market.

You also speak as though processing power means nothing. Come back and talk after you've finished mixing sound for a movie or television show when you are working with 150 or more stemmed out tracks.

Processing power is very important, and I have mixed sound for motion pictures, using ProTools HD systems and Nuendo, and I was NOT impressed by ProTools. Sure it could handle any plugin I threw at it (since it was all hardware DSP stuff), but the audio editing was messy, sloppy and not as intuitive as Cubase. And don't even get me started on how bad the MIDI editing is (though I've NEVER had to use MIDI tracks in any of the big time projects I've worked on, which would explain why it's overlooked by the developers). I've worked in studios here in NYC for a while, and recently I've gotten into the industry deeper than ever before, and I can honestly say that the ONLY reason ProTools is the standard is that people feel they have to use it in order to be taken seriously. It's the Les Paul of DAWs. ProTools HD does take it very far in terms of processing power, but that doesn't mean the software itself is worth using. A studio using Cubase or Sonar, stocked with good DSP cards and a well assembled core system would be just as stable as ProTools, but because it'll take some more time for those to catch up in terms of reputation, ProTools will continue to get the most support and will remain most powerful.

Either way, that's the big time studio environment, which most people here will never be a part of, or be interested in. So for the project studio, ProTools M-Powered and all the "lite" versions, are all crap.


I think people should really know what Protools is capable of before they pass it off. Many of you will never have to use 89% of the things it can because lets face it, your just remixing, so a program such as Cubase is perfect. But for any serious industry stuff, Pro tools is number one. It is used by almost any audio institution and most professional sound studios. It has an amazing bus system and its hardware compatibility is unbeatable.

This has to be among the stupidest things ever typed on OCR. First off, I don't know how you "remix" but anyone here who's worth their bandwidth takes time to learn the music they're remixing, transcribes it on their own (no idea why anyone would NOT do this) and uses all the tools their DAW can provide to get the best possible result. Simply importing a midi from VGmusic and changing patches might be good enough for you, but a few of us here are professional musicians who are aware of and capable of using all the features our DAWs have to offer. Most DAWs are capable of the same core functions, and have very similar "bells and whistles", all it comes down to is which does it best, and while that fine line is thinning out between the top quality DAWs (Cubase, Sonar, Logic, hell even FL is catching up), ProTools is NOT getting better, the hardware around it is, but the software itself is still way behind the competition. And it's "you're".

[Lunahorum]

Snapple just out of curiosity, do you have any links to your musical tracks or do you have a website?

[Tensei]

Snapple just out of curiosity, do you have any links to your musical tracks or do you have a website?

http://www.ocremix.org/remixer/snappleman/

I don't see how you could miss that, buddy :|

[Bahamut]

Snapple just out of curiosity, do you have any links to your musical tracks or do you have a website?

Post of the day!

[Lunahorum]

try clicking on that link.

error 404 not found :nicework:

[Tensei]

try clicking on that link.

error 404 not found :nicework:

Eh? Check your connection.

[Lunahorum]

o coolllllll

[Joshua Morse]

I've worked on feature films...

Really? Which ones?

[SnappleMan]

Really? Which ones?

None I'd proudly admit to.... :(

[OverCoat]

Snapple studied under Ralph Parfait at film school

[Tensei]

None I'd proudly admit to.... :(

Uwe Boll? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_boll)

[tweek]

I've worked in studios here in NYC for a while, and recently I've gotten into the industry deeper than ever before, and I can honestly say that the ONLY reason ProTools is the standard is that people feel they have to use it in order to be taken seriously.

Again mate, you're throwing out over generalizations that, quite frankly, you have no way of proving. The fact of the matter is that Digi Design is still very much alive and kicking, producing some incredible products that people ARE BUYING!

Sure, you may not like the interface (I feel the same) but you're not arguing it's effectiveness anymore but rather your personal opinion and taste and you defy anyone to tell you something different. The irony here is that the majority of the industry disagrees with our view of the interface.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: you don't have to like the program to CLEARLY see what an impact it has made and why it's still the industry standard.

[SnappleMan]

Again mate, you're throwing out over generalizations that, quite frankly, you have no way of proving. The fact of the matter is that Digi Design is still very much alive and kicking, producing some incredible products that people ARE BUYING!

Sure, you may not like the interface (I feel the same) but you're not arguing it's effectiveness anymore but rather your personal opinion and taste and you defy anyone to tell you something different. The irony here is that the majority of the industry disagrees with our view of the interface.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: you don't have to like the program to CLEARLY see what an impact it has made and why it's still the industry standard.

I'm not trying to argue that it's NOT as important and established as it is, sorry if I come off that way. All I'm saying is, that the hardware is what deserves praise. Also, ignorance is bliss! Too many producers and engineers have no idea that they have real options, so saying that the industry disagrees is not entirely accurate. You can't tell me that business and marketing have nothing to do with ProTools being the "standard"...

[zircon]

I actually don't think Pro Tools gets marketed that hard these days. When I read magazines like Mix, Recording, or Keyboard, you read about it a lot in interviews and gear lists, but Digi itself isn't the one with the big ads on the back of magazines, for example. That's usually reserved for companies like MOTU. I think the day another company creates as tight a hardware/software combo as Digi has, PT will begin to lose ground. Many people I know prefer using Logic even for multitracking, but the fact that there's no bundled DSP hardware is a minus for a lot of people. It's actually a little baffling why companies like Steinberg haven't created something like that yet.

[SnappleMan]

Steinberg has been slowly getting it's hands into the hardware market since being acquired by Yamaha. They have a USB interface specifically designed for use with Cubase, and they've been expanding their DSP support since Cubase SX, and who knows what massive shit they're plotting in terms of Cubase 5. But I wouldn't hold my breath... they've been known to go against good ideas just for the sake of being German and really angry. But overall, Steinberg seem to be big on the fact that their software works great on third party hardware, and having used Nuendo on a "pimped out" supersystem, I can tell you that if they did come out with a high powered hardware system to support the software, they'd blow DigiDesign right out of the water.

[Lunahorum]

what's the difference between nuendo and cubase?

[tweek]

what's the difference between nuendo and cubase?

A very good question, but that would take this way off topic and away from the Pro Tools discussion. My suggestion, start a new thread in Remixing :).