Solution for clipping?

[x.LANC|FER.x]

First off, I run Fruity Loops (I figured this was a more general question so I made a new topic)

Okay, I always seem to have a problem with clipping in my songs and I was curious why it does this-- are there too many voices, too high velocities, what? And are there ways of eliminating it or at least can I get some tips to help stop it from happening...

Thanks for any advice! :)

[KaelitioN]

Compression.Limiting. Normalizing. Parametric equalization. Master volume if all else fails , which is almost never the case. It's all in the way you tweak your levels. Insted of boosting frequencies you want , you can cut the ones you don't want , then bring everything back to unity gain. Tweak each channel seperately. Give each instrument it's own effects channel. Never , ever , ever let that bar thing flash red.

*Summons Xelebes/Compyfox or equivalent in hopes that they can offer more extensive help*

[shadow]

The fruity compressor will limit an FX channel, but if you use the equalizer or volume/panning knobs built-in to the mixer, clipping can occur. Those are applied after your FX chain, so the fruity compressor wouldn't catch any clipping caused by that.

Also remember that the FX plugins are chained, so if you have a compressor first and then some crazy distortion plugin, it'll play out in that order. So always put your compressor/limiter/whatever thing that you're using at the very end (bottom) of your chain.

Edit: and check your levels for everything and use your ear. some stuff shouldn't be loud. if you did hard limiting where clipping occured, you might run into distortion, so adjust your levels accordingly.

[DJ_Ikronix]

If I could hear a specific sample that's clipping, I could probably offer some specific advice.


But otherwise...

Compress things with excessive peaks, like drums, basslines, odd FX, stuff like that. Don't OVER-compress it (unless you like the sound you get out of it), but you should be able to buy yourself a bit more breathing room simply with some light compression on certain areas of the track.

If your bassline is causing problems, EQ it a bit. I almost always completely cut off everything below 50 Hz unless I have a very good reason for doing otherwise. That's a level that a lot of woofers can't accurately project, and you can make up for it by boosting around 150-300 Hz if it really needs it. ;)

Actually, doing a hard cut 30-50Hz and below off your ENTIRE track isn't such a bad idea either. It's usually wasted, and it takes up frequency room.

You can't do this in FruityLoops, but Normalization will help out too. It's something that's in most sound editing/mastering software, like Sound Forge or T-Racks. It'll make your track louder without clipping.

There's other things you could try, but you have to start somewhere...

[chokst~1.bat]

I'm curious, alot of times I get clipping when making music (mainly because I start with a volume pretty loud on the first instruments; so I have to keep making the volumes of each newly introduced instrument loud to get the desired blend ratio)... but I never hear anything wrong with the song. I have alot of different earphones - some really good ones and some really cheap ones. Does clipping depend on the frequency range of your speakers/earphones? That's what I'm assuming, but I never read anything on the matter... so I was just looking for a second opinion - and why it was so important to stay below the red line (especially when there's nothing noticably wrong in the song)?

Here's a little example I just made, where the red line is practically ALWAYS there (but I can't even notice any clipping):

http://www.angelfire.com/id/choksta/music/test.flp

Was this an interesting question at all? lol. :)

[Xelebes]

Compression is used to even out tracks volume wise, and if you apply it too heavily, it will start pumping the music. I made this mistake when using it all the time.

Heavy compression is a form of distortion and use it sparingly for certain effects. Moderate compression is advised when it comes to drum tracks and incredibly loud sources. Light compression is useful for just about everything else, except on orchestral pieces as the compressor does eliminate the dynamic range of the piece. Also, I might wanna raise the point that louder does not mean better, it just appears better. Having it louder will just make it obnoxious over time, and probably one of the biggest reasons why people tire themselves out of hard trance and such. Remember to have peaks in your sound but not too prominent or you can actually record a piece at -1.5 dB as being the highest peak and it will actually sound a lot cleaner.

[chokst~1.bat]

Yeah, I hardly ever use compression. It seems to take away from the overall effect of the song (sometimes even with light compression) - so I'd rather just let it go over the line and clip. Not sure if that's a good suggestion, since no one explained the relevance of removing un-noticable clipping anyways. ;)

Remember to have peaks in your sound but not too prominent or you can actually record a piece at -1.5 dB as being the highest peak and it will actually sound a lot cleaner.
Thanks for the tips. Not sure if this is essentially what compression does, but I'll look into adjusting the dB peaks and see what happends. Louder may not be better, but sometimes people have speakers/earphones that can only go so loud - so it's nice to get the music as close to the peak as possible when going out for a jog with your walkman on or something; so you can experience the full effect of the song when desired.

[Xelebes]

Yeah, I hardly ever use compression. It seems to take away from the overall effect of the song (sometimes even with light compression) - so I'd rather just let it go over the line and clip. Not sure if that's a good suggestion, since no one explained the relevance of removing un-noticable clipping anyways. ;)

Remember to have peaks in your sound but not too prominent or you can actually record a piece at -1.5 dB as being the highest peak and it will actually sound a lot cleaner.
Thanks for the tips. Not sure if this is essentially what compression does, but I'll look into adjusting the dB peaks and see what happends. Louder may not be better, but sometimes people have speakers/earphones that can only go so loud - so it's nice to get the music as close to the peak as possible when going out for a jog with your walkman on or something; so you can experience the full effect of the song when desired.

There are people who like their music, and then there are people who like their music A LOT. You're obviously just somebody who just likes his music.

Clipping can make the piece actually sound lo-fi. Unless the clipping occurs in less than 40 ms (when maximising sound through a compressor), clipping at all is discouraged because it degrades the piece's quality.

[Nicole Adams]

Also remember that the FX plugins are chained, so if you have a compressor first and then some crazy distortion plugin, it'll play out in that order. So always put your compressor/limiter/whatever thing that you're using at the very end (bottom) of your chain.

I use FX plugins a lot and I didn't know that. Thanks, that's good to know. I have a question about panning. When you set an instrument's note's panning in FL Studio's piano roll, are the FX plugin effects affected by how you set the panning?

[shadow]

Quick note: I suggested the fruity compressor because it is actually a limiter as well. If you just slapped it on and didn't touch it, it wouldn't let anything before it clip.

And yoshi, I'm not sure what you mean. The notes are obviously before the FX, so things might sound differently depending on what the effect is...

[Nicole Adams]

Quick note: I suggested the fruity compressor because it is actually a limiter as well. If you just slapped it on and didn't touch it, it wouldn't let anything before it clip.

And yoshi, I'm not sure what you mean. The notes are obviously before the FX, so things might sound differently depending on what the effect is...

How do you know what all the things the Fruity Compressor affects?

Yeah, it's kinda hard to explain what I'm trying to say. Let me try this again. If you set the panning of the notes in the piano roll, will the panning also affect the effects tacked onto the instrument?

[shadow]

That makes no sense. Everything under an FX channel will be affected by any of the effects on that channel. Period.

[Xelebes]

Answer yoshi is...

Channel pan - Sets the general starting pan of the instrument

Piano roll's pan - sets the pan for each note you make

Stereo FX - change the pan by the process you give it.

[Nicole Adams]

Stereo FX - change the pan by the process you give it.

Is this the panning knob in the mixer? I don't really understand what you said.

[Xelebes]

That knob is the very last of the chain, affecting the fx processes you even put there.

[Nicole Adams]

So the piano roll's pan won't affect the FX plugins I take it?

[Xelebes]

Ok

(let's say 50:50 is balanced

Channel pan is at 60:40
Piano Roll is at 60:40 -> 70:30
Say you use a compressor, the compression is gonna sound different from either side as the compressor distorts the sound of the left channel more than the right channel.

Now the mixer pan will pan it more which ever way.

[Nicole Adams]

So what's a way to still use pan and have the compression affect each side equally?

[Xelebes]

Pan after the compression.

[Nicole Adams]

So add pan from the different sources basically when the song is just about done?

[Xelebes]

If you're using light compression, the distortion is nearly non-existent, it just effects the balance you have when you are mixing it with other sources that have different pan sources.

[Nicole Adams]

But the way to have equal compression or of any other effect for each side, just pan when the mix is almost done?

[Xelebes]

It is recommended you pan before the compression. I was just giving an example. Something that would mean a lot more is an overdrive.

[Nicole Adams]

Yeah, I actually didn't really understand your example. How come it matters if you pan before or after the compression?

[Xelebes]

Experiment with heavy compression.

[nostalgic gen]

Why the obsession with compression?

If the track's too loud, turn it down.

[KaelitioN]

Why the obsession with compression?

If the track's too loud, turn it down.
But then you wouldn't get the desired loudness. And frequencies that would have clipped will still sound muddy/fizzy , but just be less present , right?

[Compyfox]

Clipping in short is a form of "disortion" if you get over a specific dB/dynamic range of your production setup.

How does this occour?
- Mostly the instrument too boosted, too loud
- wrong leveling while recording
- seldom but possible: if the CPU can't take it anymore (but here are latency issues and CPU limits more influenced)

How does it sound:
It sounds cracled/disortet.

What can I do against it:
"Compression" is the most used answer, but trust me. Nothing has to be at the +0dB range while producing, that's just ported into your head that you "have" to do it. But that's simply wrong, because you kill a lot of the dynamic of a song with it. You can always make it physically louder with specific tools in the end (after the song is finished). This is what we audio engineers call CD Mastering, but this is another way more complicated topic to cover.

To avoid the most well known issues of clipping, just take the loudest instrument, level it so that the loudest peak reaches +0dB max and use this one as guideline for all other instruments. "Bah! Then the outcome is too quiet!!!", you might say. True but it's way more dynamic, not overcompressed and dull.

Try it! Listen carefully and you're way more satisfied with your productions. Trust me, I'm doing this for years now.

[Nicole Adams]

To avoid the most well known issues of clipping, just take the loudest instrument, level it so that the loudest peak reaches +0dB max and use this one as guideline for all other instruments.

To find out what the instrument reaches, do I just look at the peak meter in FL Studio's mixer? If so, there are two columns that show two different dB for the instrument. Why are there two? I take it this method will also make my tracks just about the same volume as each other?

[Xelebes]

Left bar is left channel, right bar is right channel.

[Nicole Adams]

By channel, do you mean left and right speakers?

[Xelebes]

Yes.

[Nicole Adams]

...level it so that the loudest peak reaches +0dB max....

The peak meter is where I look to do this?

[Compyfox]

Yeah. Peak and Volume Meter is the same in that case.
With "peak" I also mean the loudest sign of the amplitude in the dB range.

[Nicole Adams]

With "peak" I also mean the loudest sign of the amplitude in the dB range.

Amplitude is volume, right? What do you mean by, "in the dB range"?

[bLiNd]

Well said compyfox

[Compyfox]

I guess we have to clear some issues about "clipping", because it seems like that a lot of you don't understand what "clipping" really is.

First of all, like I said earlier, it's a certain amount of "overusing" the dB range. Everything that get's over it and your audiocard or software can't handle it anymore, this is called "clipping". The endeffect is a total disorted sound that can even have crackles in it. In old recording techniques (analog) this "overusing" was often used for adding a warmth feeling to a recording. A so called "band saduration" or "soft disortion" of the sound. If you still have an original tape left and you already bought the CD, compare both and you know what I mean.

Digital recordings have it's good and bad sides. Good on it - clear recordings. Bad on it - always fear the clipping. But how do you "define" clipping? When do you get it? Good question I might try to answer.

--------------------------------------------------


Threntian or Yoshi for example asked me to listen to their stuff to give some suggestions. The difference between those two: Threntian uses a 5.1 speaker system in stereo mode and FL, and I might suggest that Yoshi uses a normal PC speaker system and FL. Okay, set rules for now. As I listened to one of Threntians "Wrath" remix versions (the Sephiroth one at the RemixWIP section) I was like "whoa dude, the bass is too heavy and some instruments blow the dB range. Okay, back to Yoshies "Under the Mysterious Blue" remix. But here, besides of some volume issues - no clipping at all.

Analysis:
So why did it happen? First of all I'd suggest it counts to the use of the speaker systems and volume of the amp. If the amp is quiet, you push up the volume of your sequencer automatically and each system responds different. That's one point. Another point are the frequency ranges of the speaker itself. A studio monitoring system simply has a better frequency range than a PC speaker. Let's take a simple example (example, might not be true!):

Studio Monitors:
20Hz - 30000Hz

PC Speakers:
200Hz - 18000Hz

You see the difference? Now combine, Sherloc Holmes and what do we get if we listen on different systems a - let's say - bass heavy track? Right, the monitor speakers don't give a f*ck about the frequency range, while the PC speakers are barfing like hell. A form of clipping occours!



Next example:
I just fooled around with Cubase VST5 a bit. This tool has a dB volume range from unlimited/-70dB (lowest volume) up to +0dB (balanced) and still up to +6dB as possible headroom where I can use "soft clipping".

Okay... so I loaded up a sampler and made a simple OHMP-ZZZZ track with 140bpm. No effect, no EQ, no panning, just two simple mono tracks and a later added compressor.

These are the standard settings. Volume at +0dB - the samples aren't normalized so I got a regular -3dB signal, which is normal in Cubase and gives me a huge headroom to play around with:

:arrow: BD-SNR -3dB (http://www.studio-compyfox.de/testcorner/clipping/bd-sn_-3db.mp3)

Okay, now I simply raised both samples with 2dB. The outcome:

:arrow: BD-SNR -1dB (http://www.studio-compyfox.de/testcorner/clipping/bd-sn_-1db.mp3)

Still no clipping occours. Now I'm using up my full headroom of Cubase VST5.

:arrow: BD-SNR +6dB (loudness) (http://www.studio-compyfox.de/testcorner/clipping/bd-sn_+6db_loudness.mp3)

Still, the clipping is almost unnoticable. Well at least to me and my speakers. Not to mention that the Terratec Producer card has a huge headroom. You might discover something else now.

Okay... now I'm overdoing it the first time, I add a compressor without limiting and boost it 12dB upwards. That's +18dB now. Be warned with your speakers, they might get damadged, but you hear the difference.

:arrow: BD-SNR +6dB (loudness) +12dB Overcompression (http://www.studio-compyfox.de/testcorner/clipping/bd-sn_+6db_loudness+12db_overcompression.mp3)

And now I'm using the maximum possible setting from the internal compressor of Cubase just to show you what happens. +24dB boost, added to the +6dB that's +30dB! Be warned again, and this time... now we talk about clipping.

:arrow: BD-SNR +6dB (loudness) +24dB Overcompression (http://www.studio-compyfox.de/testcorner/clipping/bd-sn_+6db_loudness+24db_overcompression.mp3)


You see... "Clipping" depends on a lot of things. Speakers, AudioCards, Sequencer Software, own fault...

The next time before you scream again, think about if that situation really occours. And if you're serious with music anyways, better equipment helps a lot - especially with mixing. So stop with the "I have to compress" mumbo jumbo, because this often kills the dynamic of your song for sure.

cheers.

Fox

[chokst~1.bat]

"Compression" is the most used answer, but trust me. Nothing has to be at the +0dB range while producing, that's just ported into your head that you "have" to do it. But that's simply wrong, because you kill a lot of the dynamic of a song with it.
Thanks for the feedback. In the past, I've just tried to lower the volumes of specific instruments until I don't hear clipping (when switching to a new format, or using a different audio player); but it sounds like there's alot more advanced ways to do it without sacrifising anything in the music (like playing around with peak ranges), and that there's many ways to get around this without having to use Compression right away, or at all (which I'd hardly ever use anyways - lol).

There are people who like their music, and then there are people who like their music A LOT. You're obviously just somebody who just likes his music.
You might be right in some ways. This "Lo-Fi" thing you refer to must just be something I don't have a good ear for, but when programs automatically have stuff like Compression and Anti-Alias on as the default (say, when converting your song to a wave file or something); I immediatly notice the difference... nomatter how minimal (same with when I try to convert songs from 22khz to 44khz to put on a CD) - because I have a good vision of what my song was supposed to sound like; and 'advanced features' that change the peaks and frequencies that I original made my sound with usually do nothing but piss me off (even if they're just trying to make the song sound better in the end) - haha.

Even when I listen to one of my songs on a different audio player, it never sounds completely right... as every stereo / headphones have a different default for how they project the treble/bass (like, turning the "bass boost" button on makes it more bassy than I intended; but turning it off makes the bass not as apparant as it was on my original computer speakers - which can sometimes annoy the hell out of me! lol). Yeah, so, I may not notice the whole "lo-fi" thing when stuff goes over the red light (when there's no apparent clipping [distortion or popping] to be heard)... but I'm REALLY damn picky when it comes to how I want my music to sound in other ways. :)

Studio Monitors: 20Hz - 30000Hz. PC Speakers: 200Hz - 18000Hz. You see the difference?
Thanks again for the information. I was pretty convinced that clipping depended alot on the frequency range of different systems (since some people comment about clipping when others never notice it), but it's nice to know how big the range can get to as well. Sometimes I just go into Cooledit and knock the frequencies down to about 28000 when creating songs (or press the "Decrease Volume by 25%" button in Sound Recorder); just so that the song will be compatible with most speakers - but like you said; there's obvious more technical ways to get rid of the problem. The headphones I have right now claim to go from 10Hz to 25000Hz, which seems to be good for whatever I do (never really get much static and distortion, unless it's on purpose - haha).

I'm gonna keep reading your bigger messages in detail, as it's obvious that alot of knowledge has gone into everything you've said CompyFox. Thanks again for all the interesting examples and tips man; they are greatly appreciated! ;)

[nostalgic gen]

What ratios and threshold did you use compy? Just for completeness' sake

[Compyfox]

If you mean the compressor...
For this testrange I simply used the built in Cubase VST5 Dynamics plugin, that is routable from AutoGate->Compressor->Limiter.

Activity: Compressor only

Threshold: 0dB
Ratio: 2.0:1 (doesn't matter here, because the threshold is deactivated anyways)
Attack: 10ms
Release: Auto
Make Up Gain: 12.0dB, 24.0dB (maximum)

The endeffect is a brutally boosted sound without limiting as you can hear in the last two sound examples.

[nostalgic gen]

Ok, so you just used it to boost the volume. Thought so but just wanted to verify.

[GrayLightning]

Stickyfied.

Compyfox suggested this one before I had time to get to this and it's a good one. Perhaps one of a new remixer's worst issues is this one. May your mixes be clipping free.

[Mistchiff]

use fruity soft clipper look so it wont clip by lowering shit.

but use fruity soft clipper lots GOOD

[m68030]

not sure how relevant this might be, but here's a small little
guide with pictures and stuff that I threw together some time ago.. I
can't recall when.

Doesn't really say anything more than whats been said before now,
but the illustration might be a bit eaiser to understand for some people.

http://24.211.112.207/shared/remixing/clipping.htm

[skulkrusha]

The next time before you scream again, think about if that situation really occours. And if you're serious with music anyways, better equipment helps a lot - especially with mixing. So stop with the "I have to compress" mumbo jumbo, because this often kills the dynamic of your song for sure.

I know you're talking about using compressors to stop clipping in a mix, but still, compressors do have their uses other than that. You can use a compressor to give your drums some punch, for instance. If you're willing to shell out the money, you can buy hardware compressors that will stop clipping without (noticeably) dropping any dynamic quality, although a decent hardware compressor is going to cost several thousand dollars (there's still some good commercial software compressors, though).

[nostalgic gen]

Oh sure they have their uses, they wouldn't be used so much otherwise. We're just saying that it's easy to use it inapropriately. It's pointless reaching for a compressor when all you need to do is lower the level of your fader. If you want to apply a characteristic to a sound, and you think a compressor will help you achieve this, then by all means use one. But just for the sake of it? This is bad producing.

It's also worth remembering that some compressors automatically apply make-up gain which will keep the level of the output equal to the input. So you'll still get clipping anyway if you don't turn down the fader.

[skulkrusha]

Oh sure they have their uses, they wouldn't be used so much otherwise. We're just saying that it's easy to use it inapropriately.

I'm aware of that. I only said what I said because some newbie might read what CompyFox said and interperate it as "COMPRESSORS = EVIL".

Anyway, you couldn't go past Inspector (http://www.elementalaudio.com/) to aid you with monitoring your mix and helping to eliminate clipping. Use it in combination with your program's standard db meter (it doesn't display anything over 0 db), and tweak your instrument's volumes.

[Majestic_Jester]

In general, i use compressors on all of my effects tracks anyway, i dont necissarily do anything with them i just put them there for control. either that or the parametric equalizer....

I keep forgetting that not everybody uses fruityloops... :oops:

of course sometimes you just gotta let the bastard track clip...especially in hardcore tracks

[Hy Bound]

I actually just started a forum on this... anyway, the best cure for clipping I've found is to change the clipping instrument's track so the computer has some time to switch sounds (causing clipping). :roll:

[Compyfox]

Did you read on page 3 of this thread too?
I've never heard of removing clipping that way. And I really discovered a lot. "CPU crackles/overdrives" are an other issue though that don't really count to clipping in the first place.

cheers

[Majestic_Jester]

oops double post...

[Majestic_Jester]

personally i kinda like a little bit of clipping as long as it doesnt take anything away from the quality of the song. Ive heard a load of songs where they use clipping to warp drums into crazy sounds. drums that hit hard then almost cancel out completely and a sonic aftershock follows after it.

maybe its just in what i do, but i have come under the impression that clipping doesnt really happen until you actually compress it cause technically clipping doesnt happen unless you're playing the track really freaking loud, so loud that the speakers the sounds are coming out of cant go any louder. so really you cant clip until its being played really loud outside the computer.

[nostalgic gen]

maybe its just in what i do, but i have come under the impression that clipping doesnt really happen until you actually compress it cause technically clipping doesnt happen unless you're playing the track really freaking loud, so loud that the speakers the sounds are coming out of cant go any louder. so really you cant clip until its being played really loud outside the computer.
Well, it's not really to do with the speakers - they'll keep going until they tear themselves apart - but the amplifier. There's a limit to what the amplifer can take and once this is passed the signal starts to clip. This analogy can be applied to digital clipping as well. With both analogue and digital systems compression is often used as a means to prevent clipping. I know everyone likes to talk about a compressor making things louder but I think this is misleading. A compressor literally compresses a signal (which would indicate it gets quieter) then, after compression, a seperate amplifier is used to boost the amplitude back to a desirable level if required. This may be the same as it was at the input or it may be lower. Occasionally it may be higher. Usually one simply tries to return the signal level to what it was at the input (normalisation).

What's important to realise here is that what we perceive as loudness and the actual amplitude of the signal in question is not necessarily the same thing. Sure, if you increase amplification you increase loudness but if you introduce a compressor into the chain then you can increase perceived loudness without additional amplification at all.

A look back over this thread, on the rest of the forum and on the internet in general should explain why this is the case.

[the prophet of mephisto]

Is this the panning knob in the mixer? I don't really understand what you said.
sry this is so late, yosh, but whatever works. if you're going to pan in Fruity, use the panning knobs in the properties box for that channel - its the most accurate. the PanOMatic isn't all that great no matter how you tweak it, and the pan knobs on the basic playlist and the mixer are only so sensitive - not quite as clear as you want. If you do it through the piano roll, its pretty good too because you can control exactly whats panned - but your eyes will fall out of your skull after doing about nine thousand notes - lol - so watch yourself. Just use the panning in the properties - its the easiest and most accurate one to use.
:twisted:

[Nicole Adams]

if you're going to pan in Fruity, use the panning knobs in the properties box for that channel - its the most accurate.

You're talking about the panning knob at the very top of the box of the channel settings, right? Will using this panning knob effectively pan effects, too? What do you think of the panning knob in the step sequencer? That's the one I've mostly used.

...level it so that the loudest peak reaches +0dB max....

"Compression" is the most used answer, but trust me. Nothing has to be at the +0dB range while producing, that's just ported into your head that you "have" to do it. But that's simply wrong, because you kill a lot of the dynamic of a song with it.

Hmm, so how am I supposed to handle clipping? First you say to level it so the loudest peak reaches +0dB max, but then you say doing that kills a lot of a song's dynamics.

[skulkrusha]

...level it so that the loudest peak reaches +0dB max....

"Compression" is the most used answer, but trust me. Nothing has to be at the +0dB range while producing, that's just ported into your head that you "have" to do it. But that's simply wrong, because you kill a lot of the dynamic of a song with it.

Hmm, so how am I supposed to handle clipping? First you say to level it so the loudest peak reaches +0dB max, but then you say doing that kills a lot of a song's dynamics.

I think he's talking about using a compressor to keep outputs at 0db. You can in fact lose dynamics by lowering the volume too much.

[Nicole Adams]

Okay, so the "best" thing to do is level the volume so the peak is +0dB (without using a compressor)? This being for the loudest instrument of the group. Then I can use this instrument's volume as a starting point for balancing my other instruments, right?

[Compyfox]

Exactly, Yoshi.


BTW skulkrusha:
I think he's talking about using a compressor to keep outputs at 0db. You can in fact lose dynamics by lowering the volume too much.

Nope. I didn't talk about using any compressor while producing. You can use one, indeed. But keeping that habbit makes your productions louder and louder and louder over the time without yourself noticing it.

It's the other way, you loose more dynamics while "overcompressing" than lowering the volume and balancing the the instruments.

Well... that's at least my opinion.

[the prophet of mephisto]

if you're going to pan in Fruity, use the panning knobs in the properties box for that channel - its the most accurate.

You're talking about the panning knob at the very top of the box of the channel settings, right? Will using this panning knob effectively pan effects, too? What do you think of the panning knob in the step sequencer? That's the one I've mostly used.
The panning knob in the sequencer is directly linked to the one in the channel settings. Also, you can right click on it and use the edit events box to do a lot of automated panning. it takes a little longer, but its better than using the piano roll. it works the same as the piano roll, it just works in values from 0-100% rather than notes.
:twisted: [/quote]

[Compyfox]

Could you keep the FL related questions and answers in the specific thread please? Because what you're talking about doesn't really count to "clipping".

Thanks.

[Eternal Testament]

What whould you recommend I do to eliminate clipping using a very basic setup:

Soundblaster Live 5.1 card.
Cooledit 2
Basic "came-with-the-PC" 2 speaker setup

Don't ask about my sequencer, it doesn't do shit. (Unless you know anything about Music 2000)
M2K exports the tracks as 44100 16bit .wav (a setting I can't change until I get the .wav into cooledit) so I only have the one wav to work with.

Clipping: The bane of newbie and pro alike.

[the prophet of mephisto]

What whould you recommend I do to eliminate clipping using a very basic setup:

Soundblaster Live 5.1 card.
Cooledit 2
Basic "came-with-the-PC" 2 speaker setup

Don't ask about my sequencer, it doesn't do shit. (Unless you know anything about Music 2000)
M2K exports the tracks as 44100 16bit .wav (a setting I can't change until I get the .wav into cooledit) so I only have the one wav to work with.

Clipping: The bane of newbie and pro alike.

holy shit, a two year old thread ressurected.

basically, clipping comes from the audio being too loud. if it's clipping on everything (headphones as well as 2 speaker setup) and it just sounds distorted, turn it down. in general, when a mix gets clipping, just turn the damn thing down a few notches and you'll be fine.

[Splunkle]

Preety much waht Prophet said. Since it seems your sequencer wont let you do any sort of compression/limiting, just turn it all down. Make sure its still balenced, though. If you really want to compress it, you could do that on the wav in cooledit.

[Eternal Testament]

How about keeping a good dynamic range, without sacrificing amplitude and of course no clipping?

[the prophet of mephisto]

make the whole song a little quieter, get your dynamic range in there, then normalize later with a wave editor like Audacity or CoolEdit.

[Compyfox]

Normalize only raises volume peaks, compression and limiting can raise the loudness however (and "compress" the dynamics a bit again)... Two very different things.

[Splunkle]

How about keeping a good dynamic range, without sacrificing amplitude and of course no clipping?

The thing is, the distortion introduced by clippling can't be fixed later. But if the whole mix is quiet, that can be eaisily fixed by normalising, or by compressing, which, as Compy mentioned, are different things - they make the mix sound different in the end.

Anyways, lets say you are some classical buff, and thus want your track completely undistorted, and with the dynamics the way they were recorded. Thus, you can't use compression, because that will change the dynamics, but you can normalise. But since you also must avoid clipping, what you do is record everything really low, make sure it is all balanced (you will probably need to turn up the volume on your speakers for this), and then export it. Then you normalise it, which brings the loudest peak up to -0.01 dB or somesuch, and everything else up proportionally, and you will have a track that doesn't clip and has correct dynamics.

Now the normalisation will introduce some distortion, but you will not be able to hear it. I've seen tracks that peaked at -32dB be normalised fine. Compy might know just how quiet is too quiet in terms of wanting to normalise it.

Now the same thing applies if you want to compress it. Just compress it, instead of normalising it. Done.

Disclaimer: I am by no means an expert at mastering. If you think something I have said is wrong, please let me know so that I might learn from it.

[Cerrax]

Normalizing can be fruitless if you've already taken those steps manually when you are creating the mix. I don't have a normalize option in my editor, so I have to do it manually.
Compression, like others said, will mess with the dynamics. I personally try to stay away from compression because too much of it will ruin the song IMO.
Limiting is also problematic, as it limits the peaks of the frequencies, this can result in a strange sound in the mix if by some strange event a frequency spikes in the song, it will not do that with a limiter on it and may make the song sound bad.
Normalizing is probably your best option. Or just don't make it so loud.

[SnappleMan]

I'm gonna probably repeat what's been said a few times over in this thread, but I'm gonna give you my process of dealing with clipping and mastering in general.

The mixing process of a song is the most important, because that's where you should add your EQ, effects and per channel compression. The way I do things is, I do all of my mixing work without any clipping. Meaning, the tracks peak is always at about -.2 to -.3 dB, never any higher. This means that it's the entire songs peak, not the individual tracks, which makes the RMS very low (the way it should be for a pre-mastered track). I get it to sound the way I want here. I turn my amp volume high up so I can hear everything in the track without compressing it, and I mix it like this.

Now that it's mixed properly, and the peak is at that level, I bounce everything to the main mix track, and I start the mastering process. When mastering, the only thing I do is add compression, and slightly tweak the track's EQ to shape the sound how I want. The amount of dynamics that I'm willing to sacrifice will determine the loudness of the track. If I feel that the track isn't as loud as I want it, and if more compression will ruin too many of the dynamic elements, I GO BACK AND REMIX THE TRACK!

I can't stress that enough, the mixing stage is where all of the most important work should take place. Mastering is only there to make it loud and bring out some things that mixing cannot.

Always mix your track at a safe volume, otherwise you'll end up with an overall bad song that doesn't sound good mastered.