Diablo III

[Sir_NutS]

I'll admit that it looks cooler, but I don't think you can really complain about the game taking a dump on you if you're making it intentionally harder on yourself.

I guess I can complain about the game not allowing me to play a barbarian as they should be played? I mean, there are VERY few barbarians out there that are happy about being sword and board, must of them just tolerate it to be able to progress. When people think about a barbarian they think about a big guy smashing faces not a wimp that only can tank a lot of damage while chipping away at enemies for pitiful damage.

I'm not really trying to seem overly angry about the whole deal because I'm really not, I love the game for the most part, its just frustrating to see every other class living up to their archetype AND making progress much quicker. But I have faith it will get fixed, Barbs will be back to their 2H and dual wielding goodness soon. In the meantime, I'll spend more time levelling up my other characters so I can farm better in the later acts and get enough gold for my barbarian.

[Sir_NutS]

Well to be fair, averaging out the DPS instead of combining it is pretty dumb

I guess I'll be keeping an eye out for quivers.

It depends on your attack speed. Your dps isn't averaged. You do 1 attack with one hand and 1 attack with the other, this plus the 15% attack speed makes it almost even. You deal more damage if your attack speed is very high.

This is how it should work for Dual wielding barbarians, you get 30% attack speed from dual wield, then you get 30% from a 5 stack of frenzy, that's 45% faster attacks , more with speed affixes affixes and it yields more dps than 1h and shield.

[eternal Zero]

Yeah at the moment my offhand 1 hand crossbow, even though it does half the dps of my main hand has enough stats on top of the 15% IAS to be better than most quivers I've found.

Tensei, do you like 2h Xbow or the 1h? I'm personally torn. I do intend on switching to quiver once I find a nice one I like.

[Level 99]

With barb I'm finding interesting tradeoffs between dw and 1h shield, especially whenever shield has vit str boosts. It's been somewhat difficult finding good 1h weaps that give stat boosts relevant to that class, but then again I only just started hell.

[Tensei]

I use a 2-hander because of the 50% bonus crit damage from the Archery passive, combined with Sharpshooter. I find that I stagger my attacks a lot anyway with all the kiting, so attack speed isn't all that important for me compared to having slower attacks with high crits.

Keep in mind that quivers can be equipped with any kind of bow, not just 1-handed crossbows.

[Hemophiliac]

Ok, I got the game and am installing now...horray!

[eternal Zero]

Well, yeah, Tensei I knew I could equip an offhand even with a 2H bow or xbow. It's a matter of deciding whether or not I want the attack speed for when I have guys tanking for me or if I just want to go harder hits.

Also I'm really debating setting up for doing Inferno Whimsyshire runs cause it'd be so easy with a group and/or solo as a ranged but I don't know what acts the drops are equivalent to. Some sources say A4 others say A2. Any thoughts?

[zircon]

Unless people are all highly geared I feel like grouping in Inferno makes things harder. Every player increases monster HP by 110% and damage by 15%. I'm up to the Zoltan Kulle blood gathering quest now as solo, and I still die fairly frequently (usually to combos like Fire Chains + Illusionist... really anything with Illusionist and mobility). Adding more damage seems like it would be unmanageable unless someone is giving me 30k DPS or more.

[Tensei]

Pretty sure Whimsyshire would be the equivalent of Act 4 drops unless it's somehow different from previous difficulties. It's also nice that none of the monsters have any ranged attack or special abilities, but farming up 1 mil for the staff can be a pain.

Also, I feel like I'd have to team up to be able to do Inferno Belial at all due to the way the first phase of the fight is set up, which is murder for a DH (or any Ranged, really). Dying on Inferno isn't really an issue, even if your gear is up to par, it's more of a problem when you simply can't get past a certain group of elites.

[eternal Zero]

Zircon and I are pretty much the best. :bro fist: Took Belial down in only like five attempts.

I'm quite proud of this considering the only gear I've dropped any kind of gold on are my gloves and my crossbow. As I find/upgrade further I'll only get even more sick.

Also I've dropped Sharpshooter now for Numbing Traps. Makes survival much easier when they're not only snared for 2 seconds but if they were in attack range they're doing significantly less damage.

This was the Belial setup: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WRYXkV!YeV!bcZZcc

And this is the normal setup for now...I'm really going back and forth on what my primary shot is and what takes up my 3rd slot on my bar.

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#bRYXTV!YeV!YcZZZc

[zircon]

Yep, that was awesome. I wasn't sure if we'd be able to do it. :D

I was able to solo just about all of Act 2 otherwise; no gimmicks, only had to restart or kite elites a couple of times. My gear is worth <3 million total. Ended up with about 17k dps, 28k HP, 900 resists and 5000 armor (8000 buffed).

[eternal Zero]

Does having a follower make enemies harder? I can't really tell because I went back to do a Butcher run and it was much easier than I remember and I didn't have a dude but that could be because of my gear or improved tactics or any number of things.

Edit: Also yeah I also soloed a majority of Act 2 before hopping into your game. I was only half a chapter behind you.

[zircon]

No, Followers don't make anything harder - that's one reason why soloing is sometimes easier than grouping. Also, it's pretty easy to find really good follower equipment. A good 2h enchantress weapon to put her DPS at like 1500-2000 and add 100vit is maybe 30-40k gold. Follower items, rings and amulets with int/str/vit are also usually very cheap. My Enchantress now has something like 46k HP. Between that and the mystic ally, she has saved me a number of times.

[Sir_NutS]

well, I couldn't take any more psychological punishment so I switched my beloved offhand for a lame ass shield.

Killed a few champs already, steadily progressing.

The Bul-Kathos looked down on me in disgust as he shed a tear today.

[suzumebachi]

so is there like an elitistjerks for diablo 3 yet where i can read up on how stats and shit really work cuz i literally have no idea and it is not very intuitive.

for instance, what the hell does physical resistance do as opposed to armor? how is spell damage actually calculated? how does +attack speed affect casting? why do i get more DPS (according to the damage stat on my character screen) from +10 dmg than +100 int? what are the stat weights for each class? etc.

also, is there some trick to not dying 10 times on every pack of elites? i just started out hell (level 52 witchdoctor) and while i could at least snare and kite elites in nightmare, in hell they're just too god damn fast and they're all up on me before i can even cast anything and i die in 2 seconds. glass cannon ftl. :(

[Tensei]

Armor and Resistances are all seperate instances of damage reduction. Armor reduces all damage, while Physical resistance will only affect physical attacks. Aside from that, certain spells or passives will give an additional % reduction (like WDs Jungle Fortitude), and there are also items that give bonuses like reducing melee damage or damage from elites by a certain percentage.

That said, Resistances are generally the cheapest way to boost your survivability quickly.

Attack Speed also boosts your cast rate for every spell, which means it works well to up the DPS on cheap spammy attacks like poison darts, but it doesn't really affect any damage over time spells, and it will cause you to run out of mana quicker if you use a lot of mana-hungry spells compared to other ways of boosting your damage (cause you're casting the spell more often for smaller amounts of damage versus casting it slower for larger amounts of damage)

Intelligence, just as any other primary stat for a class, will boost your damage by 1% per point. 100 Intelligence means a 100% increase to your damage. This is why minor damage boosts, like a ring that adds maybe 12-24 damage, can suddenly make a huge difference when you're getting like 1200% extra damage from your stats.

WD has a lot of ways of dealing with Elites. Probably the least thing you want to do is to start using Spirit Walk because it lets you get out of a lot of messy situations unharmed. I like it with the Spirit Vessel passive because it lowers cooldown and gives you another safety net in case you die.

Snares and CC in general get diminished as you go up in difficulties, but Wall of Zombies always remains crazy strong for blocking powerful enemies. Hex is another great spell that affects every elite and even certain sub-bosses. Fetish Army is a good oh shit button because it does significant damage even later on, and draws away a lot of aggro. Offensively, stuff like Haunt or Swarm of Locusts is probably the most efficient if youre kiting a lot because of the damage over time component, so you can spend more time running.

[Bahamut]

I've found some useful information over at the Battle.net D3 class forums. At least, it has definitely allowed me to handle almost anything in Act 1 Inferno as a wizard minus super crappy champion/elite mods + speedy enemies (unless my laptop lags, which happens enough since I'm running a web development environment with Rails). I've been able to solo farm the Butcher which has been nice, although I hear that Belial is really tough unless you go full glass cannon, and even then there is the risk of dying to the snake minions if you don't output enough damage.

Also when MaxFrost and I were playing on Sunday, this dropped for me: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/andariels-visage

My first legendary and what a sweet legendary it is, boosting my dps to over 20k. Seems like my stats for it are pretty good (283 armor, +34 poison resist, +117 intel, 13% IAS, level requirement reduced by 2 - I forget the regeneration mod, think it's +94)

[Sir_NutS]

so is there like an elitistjerks for diablo 3 yet where i can read up on how stats and shit really work cuz i literally have no idea and it is not very intuitive.

for instance, what the hell does physical resistance do as opposed to armor? how is spell damage actually calculated? how does +attack speed affect casting? why do i get more DPS (according to the damage stat on my character screen) from +10 dmg than +100 int? what are the stat weights for each class? etc.

also, is there some trick to not dying 10 times on every pack of elites? i just started out hell (level 52 witchdoctor) and while i could at least snare and kite elites in nightmare, in hell they're just too god damn fast and they're all up on me before i can even cast anything and i die in 2 seconds. glass cannon ftl. :(

You want to check the diablofans.com Forums.

Here's a tip to getting through hell quicker: go to the AH, and get new weapons and armor. Since you're a witch doctor set the filter for intelligence and vitality, and the buyout amount to 5k-10k I assure you will find awesome gear for your character for less than 5k at that level that will be an upgrade for anything you brought from nigthmare, and it will help you faceroll Hell. I pimped up my wizard for less than 20k and I'm facerolling act 2.

Also, here's a spreadsheet for comparing items for witch doctors courtesy of diablofans:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AtSFZM2UJ5OJdGFnWXVLTTRocDJFZk8tanduOHlBVX c&toomany=true#gid=0

If you really want to know the inner workings of your class or what specs are viable you should really visit those forums and read up a bit.

[Level 99]

You want to check the diablofans.com Forums.

Here's a tip to getting through hell quicker: go to the AH, and get new weapons and armor. Since you're a witch doctor set the filter for intelligence and vitality, and the buyout amount to 5k-10k I assure you will find awesome gear for your character for less than 5k at that level that will be an upgrade for anything you brought from nigthmare, and it will help you faceroll Hell. I pimped up my wizard for less than 20k and I'm facerolling act 2.

Also, here's a spreadsheet for comparing items for witch doctors courtesy of diablofans:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AtSFZM2UJ5OJdGFnWXVLTTRocDJFZk8tanduOHlBVX c&toomany=true#gid=0

If you really want to know the inner workings of your class or what specs are viable you should really visit those forums and read up a bit.


Pretty much this. SirNuts gave me the same tip. Now I don't die as much by a factor of 10 billion.

I jumped in suzu's game after he had frustrations with Rakanoth on Nightmare, and I think I felt the vibrations of the clunk of his jaw hitting the floor when we were able to take him down without suzu taking very much damage and me staying above 50% health the whole time.

I'm about half way through Act 1 Hell and have only had two champ/elite mobs that I was not able to take down solo. Current skills http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bhYVik!Zdb!abZabb

[Sir_NutS]

I'm about half way through Act 1 Hell and have only had two champ/elite mobs that I was not able to take down solo. Current skills http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bhYVik!Zdb!abZabb

Enjoy Cleave and WW while you can bro. It won't last much longer.

[relyanCe]

My current DH build for soloing Nightmare (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aZSRdT21Yceaaaaaaab!Yec!YaaZ)

I only have trouble with Mortar and Fast elites right now. Mortar is dealt with easily with a few vaults and spiketraps, but those GODDAMN FAST ELITES DON'T STOP CHASING ME AAAAAARGHdumb

how is this build gonna stack up to Hell and beyond, those with experience therein?

EDIT: fixed runes and passives. dunno what happened with the last one -,-

[eternal Zero]

You don't have any runes or passives set so I can't say how well you'll scale.

But! General DH knowledge and practice is:

For primary you're either using Hungering Arrow or Entangling Arrow with whatever rune you feel like or if you have access to Acid Strike for Bola Shot that's the one exception I've seen again and again.

Secondary is Elemental Arrow [Ball Lightning] or [Nether Tentacles] for damage and [Frost Arrow] for utility. Multishot [Fire At Will] or [Broadside] is also popular.

Your bar consists of Smoke Screen [Lingering Fog] and Preparation [Battle Scars] or [Backup Plan] for pretty much any build. The other two are up to you.

Popular choices are:

Animal Companion [Ferrets] or [Bat]
Spike Traps [Long Fuse], [Scatter], [Bandolier]
Caltrops [Hooked Spines], [Tortuous Ground]
Impale [Chemical Burn], [Grievous Wound]
Rain of Vengeance [Stampede]
Shadow Form [Gloom]
Vault [Rattling Roll], [Tumble]

And passives most people go: Archery and Steady Aim by default. Main 3rd slot choices are Sharpshooter, Tactical Advantage, and Night Stalker.


Needless to say you have a ton of options as a DH and outside of the core there's plenty of room to be effective at what we do while having your own style to it.

I've personally tried everything but I always go back to Caltrops [Torturous Ground] (kite forever AND trap treasure goblins in place) and having either my bat (near infinite Hatred) or my ferrets ($$$). Stampede is also really nice for groups but not so great for killing bosses or elites. Also Impale is really great for single target damage for small enemies but Ball Lightning and Nether Tentacles just do so much damage it's hard to justify spending hatred on anything else.


Edit: In other news I have a new melee wizard build I've been using on my level 52 wizard and I do quite like it. I can't wait until I actually have real gear for it and all the right runes I want. Should be a good alternative to my DH style of kite and fight.

This is what I eventually want.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#bROSYX!gaV!cbccYa

or this

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#WROSYX!gab!YbccYa

[zircon]

Act 3 Inferno is insanely brutal. I can kill champ/elites maybe... 25% of the time, and white (trash) mobs are easily as strong as Act 1 elites. I've had my gear totally wrecked several times and I have yet to complete the first quest. Very very very brutal for a Monk. So far I've been using my very defensive build which, although possessing a respectable 19k DPS, is just not enough to tank like I did in the earlier acts. Fallen Shaman are also a huge problem since they sit in back and run away, making me wade through tons of lethal mobs in the process.

At the moment I'm trying an attack speed build with more emphasis on offense and dodge, in the hopes that I can just kill stuff before it kills me. My overall DPS is down but in return I'm getting way more spirit regeneration and some life on hit. If that doesn't work either, I might just have to gear up further...

[Bahamut]

Living Lightning is kinda bad from my experience - it moves so slow and has a relatively not long range. It's not effective for standing and firing off a quick one and going on the move IMO. Also hydra on the right click has a distinct disadvantage I found - you have to have a target with the click to cast hydra, whereas with a number key you could cast it wherever you want to your heart's content. I guess you could shift + right click, but it's just something else to think about.

I'm currently running this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#blRYSP!YdU!bbbcYZ

Although I'm probably going to change it to this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#blRYSO!YXU!bbbcYc

Been slowly gearing up - up to 39k hp and 21k dps with ~200 resist. Seems like some of the most geared wizards have ~1200 all resists, 100% movespeed, and like 60k+ dps. That type of gear sounds so expensive :( .

[eternal Zero]

It's a melee wizard build. It's not meant for running. Living lightning is meant to maximize the number of hits for a stun proc. Also you 100% don't need a target to right click to place a hydra.

I played through a majority of the game with Hydra on left click as well because I don't like wizard primary abilities very much and you simply have to use shift+click to force a cast over a wall into fog.

Edit: Also Baha you may way to do some reading on general wizard builds and also read exactly what your skills do. Your builds seem haphazard. I'm not trying to be mean. Just pointing it out.

Temporal Flux only works with Arcane damage not a skill that uses Arcane power. Your build does only cold, poison and lightning damage. Also if you want to do the run and gun then your best bet is to keep Temporal Flux and change to the Arcane Hydra because it hits in an AoE and will allow you to kite much easier. Also Venom Hydra works best when the enemy isn't moving so that's why I wanted to make the stand and deliver melee build because otherwise it's wasted on everything that isn't a very slow moving boss.

[Tensei]

There's also a Wizard build focused around Living Lightning that makes use of the amount of times it hits combined with high crit ratio and the Critical Mass passive that reduces your cooldowns each time you crit, which in turn increases the uptime you have on the likes of Diamond Skin and other survivability spells.

E: I actually just rolled a Wizard cause I wanted to try this build out, and I'm kinda burnt out on Inferno difficulty at the moment with my 3 level 60s :p

[eternal Zero]

Actually, Tensei, I think that's my build, haha. At least that's the idea. Cold Snap on multiple targets increases crit rate by 15 on top of planned crit gear and attack speed I'll be stunning and refreshing cooldowns like nobody's business.

[RiverSound]

Act 3 Inferno is insanely brutal. I can kill champ/elites maybe... 25% of the time, and white (trash) mobs are easily as strong as Act 1 elites. I've had my gear totally wrecked several times and I have yet to complete the first quest. Very very very brutal for a Monk. So far I've been using my very defensive build which, although possessing a respectable 19k DPS, is just not enough to tank like I did in the earlier acts. Fallen Shaman are also a huge problem since they sit in back and run away, making me wade through tons of lethal mobs in the process.

At the moment I'm trying an attack speed build with more emphasis on offense and dodge, in the hopes that I can just kill stuff before it kills me. My overall DPS is down but in return I'm getting way more spirit regeneration and some life on hit. If that doesn't work either, I might just have to gear up further...
Care to share some builds you've been using or are considering? Personally, I'm starting to lose faith in Monk being a tank enough class to survive inferno.

[relyanCe]

thanks for the tips, zero!

[eternal Zero]

Zircon, I'm heavily debating doing a vault/ss super sequence break progression through Act 3 and hitting all major checkpoints and remaking when I'm forced to fight. I'll do my best to not progress past a boss without bringing you in so you can get credit.

Just gotta get to the point where Siegebreaker runs are as feasible for us as Butcher runs used to be like a week ago. Now even I can tank act 1 inferno like it's nothing so we can do it...eventually...maybe when I finally decide to drop some real gold into the AH.

[Adventdawn]

I haven't made it past Nightmare on my demon hunter yet, I've been to focused on refining my skills playing hardcore. I would rather not be soloing by the time i hit hell, does anyone else play hardcore that wouldn't mind me tagging along in hell and beyond?

[Bahamut]

I dunno, I still don't see how your skill combination that you're suggesting for your wizard is supposed to work - it doesn't look like it'll be that effective on mobs. Living lightning didn't output much damage from my experience at all, nor does it have good range either. You sure Arc Lightning wouldn't be more effective, especially if the goal is close range? The only benefit I can see would be if you have something like blizzard or slow time to help slow enemies from distance to get extra hits, but with the way Living Lightning works, you probably won't get much of it off before an enemy reaches you most of the time even counting usage of an extra skill.

Also you sure about the hydra? I tried it on right click a week or so ago and it would just move my character to the location if it wasn't a valid target (and got me killed a few times). It absolutely did not work the way you are claiming it is for you and after a few hours of it I switched it out due to lack of flexibility in casting hydra wherever I wanted.

I've looked up various stuff about wizards and it seems like there are varying approaches, although blizzard/venom hydra are the most common with each person taking different approaches, built around magic weapon, armor skill (or two for some), and survivability. I know venom is meant for slower moving enemies/bosses, and arcane is the other option, but the acid puddles for venom is part of what makes it potent (so enemies walking through still get hit) - this is great vs. elites/champions when running around objects in circles, where I'm able to take on most mods excepting invulnerable, sometimes teleport and/or vortex and/or fast. My bane is if I haven't cleared enough room when trying to kill elites/champions, and part of it is probably gear as far as I've read. Belial will be difficult for me due to the snakes in a confined area, but short of going melee (which probably relies on being ridiculously geared, moreso than standard wizard builds) I don't see a good solution for that except to pile on the extreme for dps which seems to be the typical approach for getting through.

[eternal Zero]

Well, did you change your move button to right click? Because then yes I can see why you would move without casting and you would need to shift click. With default controls right click will always just use the ability it's bound to regardless of the presence of a valid target.

Also you're missing the point of the melee wizard build. The build doesn't care if the enemy has reached me. The build is purely for doing as much damage/cc/sustain at point blank range. So living lightning is the perfect spell due to the sheer number of hits it does. This maximizes stun chance, overall crit numbers, which therefore means I take less damage and by not moving my venom hydra is successfully doing loads of damage to the stationary targets standing next to me as the pools stack up. Also the gear demand is slightly less than a typical melee because with the armor spell combined with blur that's more than melee classes get from their built in damage reduction. Also like any other typical melee inferno build it runs a shield off hand for even more survival.

Also from my experience playing DH it's all about just loading on the DPS for your standard ranged strategy. Any kiting you get is essential. Wizards don't have a root break or a freeze break spell unfortunately so that means you're stuck running crystal form to mitigate damage instead of avoiding damage like WD or DH. So the logic behind gearing for a melee wizard is to accept the fact that you'll be using crystal form and maximizing its utility.

Also I only said to run the arcane hydra because you have a passive that you're totally and utterly wasting and I was trying to suggest a way to make it useful. Your build doesn't actually do arcane damage.

Edit: Also as for signature wizard spells general consensus is that the best multipurpose ones are Magic Missle [Seeker] and Electrocute [Lightning Blast]. For melee oriented wizards they either run Shock Pulse [Living Lightning] or Spectral Blades [Deep Cuts] or [Healing Blades]. There is heavy emphasis on high crit chance for melee builds and either easy line AoE damage for trash mobs or higher target long range poking for the ranged builds.

[zircon]

Care to share some builds you've been using or are considering? Personally, I'm starting to lose faith in Monk being a tank enough class to survive inferno.

Act 1 was pretty straightforward. Act 2 is obviously a big step up, but doable. Act 3 is total hell though; duoing with Zero's Demon Hunter makes things easier (though still extremely hard).

There are a few ways to build. In all cases, you should try to have a lot of resistances and high dexterity (for DPS + armor). I would never let my resistances go below 500 in any build.

Main attack options:
* Deadly Reach w/ +Armor: The range on this is amazing, and +50% armor is basically up all the time. Excellent in all acts, almost a necessity for Act 3, and definitely if you are tanking for the group.

* Crippling Wave w/ -Damage: Worthwhile for it 360 AOE and damage reduction effects, not a bad option for main tank but not as viable later on when the +50% armor will benefit you more.

* Hundred Fists w/ Windforce: Very high damage output and ranged attack. Good for farming or if you don't need more tankiness.

* Fists of Thunder w/ +Dodge or Teleport: Good options for an Aspd heavy build, eg. you need more spirit generation or have a lot of Life on Hit. Good for dual wielding in particular. I ran this on Act 3 dual wielding for a bit but I think you really need VERY good gear to make it work that far (eg. a LOT of life on hit).

Other skills:
* Serenity w/ increased duration: This is a necessity.

* Breath of Heaven w/ +Damage: Very nice for boosting DPS and self-healing, of course. Another necessity.

* Blinding Flash w/ increased duration or +Damage: I prefer +Damage since my items are mainly defense-oriented and I need more damage. This one is extremely good but possibly swappable for other skills IF you can survive without it. I generally can't, unless I'm farming Act 1.

* Mystic Ally w/ Earth Ally: +10% HP and taunts enemies off you. Very useful, I can't live without it in Acts 2/3.

* Sweeping Winds w/ any rune: For farming or if your DPS is just too low, this can be a good option, particularly if you're running high crit. Bladestorm (+Damage) is a good one for really boosting your output, while spirit generation at max stacks is good if you are spamming your spells. I personally have tried this but in Act 3 you can't stay in melee range for too long, so I haven't been able to really make it work for me. It would be good with Fists of Thunder w/ teleport though.

* Various finishers: I used these throughout the entire game, but as of Inferno, I can't spare the slots. I know some Inferno Monks use various kicks for the stun/knockback properties or +dodge, but I don't.

Aura Options:
* Mantra of Healing w/ Time of Need (+Resists): Amazing survivability bonus for the whole party. My preferred aura, generally.

* Mantra of Evasion w/ Hard Target (+Armor): Another option. Armor does reduce all damage, so it's hard to say which is better. Dodge is a little to random for my tastes, but the activation bonus is really nice.

* Mantra of Conviction w/ Overawe: If you're fairly tanky and/or farming Act 1, this ability is very strong. +24% damage for the team or +48% in short bursts is insane. I've run this in groups with success.

Passives:
* Dex -> Armor: Necessary, I can't live without it.
* One with Everything (the resists one): Same as above.
* Transcendence (Spirit -> Life): I used this quite a bit. If you run a mostly passive/defensive build like me, you will have spare spirit, enabling you to spam your aura for bonus heals. Not as effective if you are going vit over resists/armor, but you shouldn't do that anyway.
* Beacon of Ytar: I've tried it, but w/o another healing source, it's tough to run. Can work if you have Life on Hit though.
* Resolve (-Damage): Very nice in groups and in Act 3. This is what I'm currently using.

Gear:
* +Single resist, +All resist, +Dex, +Vit: These are all very important stats. It's usually not too hard to find gear pieces with at least +30/+30 resists, the tricky part is getting good dex/vit too.

* Attack Speed on rings, amulets, gloves: Get it if you can, since it improves your spirit generation, but don't sacrifice too much defense. You should be able to get at least your preferred single resistance while looking for this.

* Life on Hit: If you can get 400-500, this is worthwhile to stack and give you some real sustain in combat.

* Weapon: A blue weapon with 700-800 DPS is not super expensive (100-200k or so), and you can probably get a nice fat +50-100 dex bonus on it too. A rare weapon with the same DPS and stats like Life on Hit or Vit will be much more expensive, so try to get a good blue first.

Good numbers to shoot for:
* 20-25k HP
* 500 all resists, unbuffed
* 10k DPS, unbuffed
* 4000 armor, unbuffed

In Act 3, I have 30k HP, almost 17k DPS, 4700 armor and 750 resistances - and there are many WHITE mobs who can do over half my health in one shot. Having buffs from my aura, deadly reach, etc. do help but at this point you can't face tank everything (as you definitely can in Act 1, and more or less can in Act 2).

In terms of follower, I use Enchantress for her CC and buffs. Get her a strong 2h weapon for cheap (<50k) and then int/vit items (not usually too expensive, or you can just find them). Mine has about 1800 DPS and 50k HP, which is nice.

Strategy: This advice applies mainly to Acts 2/3. In Act 1, you don't need to be QUITE this careful. Clear methodically. Go slowly and pull mobs in as small numbers as you can. Once they start running toward you, your Ally/Enchantress will hopefully engage. Get in as many hits as possible at range. As soon as you get aggroed, Blind them and keep attacking. If you see your HP dropping, hit your Breath of Heaven and/or aura activation. If you're still dropping then activate serenity. Usually this will have bought you enough time to clear a pack. If not, you may need to potion and keep going. If EVERYTHING is on cooldown, time to run and get single hits in while you can (eg. while your followers are tanking things).

Try not to be hitting something and maxed on spirit at the same time. Use your Aura, if nothing else, for the activation bonus. However, you should never drain your spirit to the point where you can't use Serenity. That's bad.

Fighting champions/elites: Can be easy or hard depending on mods, of course. I find Fire Chains to be extremely difficult to deal with. If they're of a particular mob type, I have to pull them or remake (eg. fast spiders, shielding, vortex). In Act 1, they're not too bad. Desecrator can be dealt with because there is a delay between when the animation appears on the ground and when it starts doing damage. Plagued can be safely attacked with Deadly Reach beyond the actually damaging AOE. Invulnerable minions is VERY hard unless you can do a substantial amount of damage while Serenity + Blind are up (that's about 7 seconds of, in theory, uninterrupted DPS on your part).

In Act 3, my strategy is even more conservative. If they are very damaging (desecrator/molten, for example, or just a naturally damaging monster type) I will get in their face and pop Serenity up front to unload DPS. Then, as soon as that runs out, I will Blind and continue to hit them. Then I'll generally run around, getting hits in where possible, recasting my Ally, and healing where necessary, then repeating once Serenity/Blind are up again. This works the majority of the time, though not ALL the time unfortunately.

Hope that helps. I agree that Monks are pretty difficult to play, but it IS doable if you're patient. I have around 70 hours of total playtime so I haven't been an insane farmer or anything. My most expensive item (an amulet) cost about 500k gold, everything else was much less, between 50-150k. Now that I have over 900 buffed resistances, I'm looking to tweak my defensive stats to optimize them, for example with String of Ears which provides both Life on Hit (sustain) and reduced damage from melee attackers.

[Bahamut]

I'm not missing the point - Living Lightning just doesn't do nearly as much as you think for close range I think, but you'll probably find out when you get to that point yourself for reasons that are harder to describe with text or pure numbers without knowing how the spell works in-game. I've only found it effective for damage when fighting a huge number of enemies at once, and even then its benefit was questionable. For sheer damage, something like Arc Lightning *should* do significantly more and it's designed for close range.

In other news, design update for patch 1.0.3: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6262208/Patch_103_Design_Preview-6_6_2012#blog

Inferno is going to get easier in that enemies will not do increased damage with more people joining the game, which is probably what makes it more difficult with more people. Also damage/health of monsters are getting tweaked in Acts 2-4. Sounds like fair adjustments there.

They might up repair costs 4x - 6x times due to people rushing through bosses or chain rezzing in co-op games - sounds brutal.

IAS is getting nerfed.

Elites/champions will drop 1 guaranteed rare with a 5 stack of NV.

[Sir_NutS]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6262208/Patch_103_Design_Preview-6_6_2012#blog

Moving in the right direction. I still have faith.

[eternal Zero]

There's also a Wizard build focused around Living Lightning that makes use of the amount of times it hits combined with high crit ratio and the Critical Mass passive that reduces your cooldowns each time you crit, which in turn increases the uptime you have on the likes of Diamond Skin and other survivability spells.

Baha I'm not going to pursue this conversation any further. There's a specific reason for living lightning and it's not the damage. You are indeed missing the purpose of choosing that spell.


Those changes look pretty awesome. I look forward to when the patch drops.

[Sir_NutS]

I'm levelling up my wizard for inferno, almost at a3 hell now. Is there any build out there that uses meteor and works? I'm running this build at the moment http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#UkgROP!aYf!ZaZbbZ

I mostly wait for a champ pack to appear, if I can attack first then I drop 2 meteors and a hydra from the edge of the screen, that leaves most of them ready to be melted with lightning. If they attack first, I drop slow time, drop the meteors+ hydra then mirror image out. Run around a bit to recover my health while they are busy with the duplicates and when the cooldowns are ready I just repeat the process.

We'll see if this works on inferno, most wizards are just running blizz+hydra atm but there are certainly others viable ways to progress. I am currently looking into replacing forked lightning because as we know most spells that require you to stand there and cast are pretty bad with how things are atm (one shots and such). Any suggestions?

[eternal Zero]

MaxFrost uses a pretty neat meteor build. It looks something like this:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#akYROQ!aeT!ZaZccZ

I couldn't remember all of it so this turned into what I would do to make meteor work. High risk high reward with great damage boosting for group play.

[MaxFrost]

Sir_nuts: I'm currently running this build for inferno groups

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#akQROS!Tef!YaZccZ

However, it doesn't work out so well solo. I'm really unable to kite effectively by myself, but if I have someone who's somewhat tanky, or can slow reasonably well, it does have decent survivability and dps...at least for act 1 inferno.

Guess I should explain my build a bit.

I have two items pushing my arcane power stack up a bit to 107 total with force armor active. However, this isn't enough to chain two meteors back to back. Magic Missle Attunement is there for two reasons. One, while I like shock pulse: orb more as a sig spell, for some reason, arcane dynamo seems to work best with magic missile of any sort over shock pulse or electrocute. Because of my lack of 120 AP, and no passives left to devote to ap gen, I use attunment to help me cast more meteors more often. I have to cast sig spells anyways due to needing to stack Dynamo.

Dynamo is there as a massive DPS generator. It favors very slow, high damage spells. It's practically a must for both arcane tornado builds and meteor. Arc orb obliterate may also function well with it. 5-6 magic missile hits is enough to max the stack. And the buff is a multiplier...so molten impacts 338% weapon damage spell becomes a whopping 591.5% total damage. Add to that the increased damage from conflagration, which buffs all damage done to target by 10% for 3 seconds when hit with fire damage (meaning fellow party members get it to) from either a previous meteor or the hydra, and your meteor is doing a whopping 650% weapon damage if you get all the burning ground ticks in. That's before a crit. I regularly see 50-60k crits with a 600 dps weapon and 1165 int while solo.

A note about Dynamo. It is consumed by Hydras, but does not buff hydras. If you use this build, and have a full stack, cast meteor first, followed by the hydra. The hydra will hit first anyways.

This is probably the only high dps build that could possible use an un-runed skill. When dealing with runners or mulitple mobs, if you're having trouble getting the mammoth to hit targets reasonably (cast it behind you or close to you to get foes to run along the path), go with plain flame hydras. Less damage output then the mammoth, but more accurate when dealing with fast mobs, and less arcane power intensive.

[Sir_NutS]

Sir_nuts: I'm currently running this build for inferno groups

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#akQROS!Tef!YaZccZ

However, it doesn't work out so well solo. I'm really unable to kite effectively by myself, but if I have someone who's somewhat tanky, or can slow reasonably well, it does have decent survivability and dps...at least for act 1 inferno.

Guess I should explain my build a bit.

I have two items pushing my arcane power stack up a bit to 107 total with force armor active. However, this isn't enough to chain two meteors back to back. Magic Missle Attunement is there for two reasons. One, while I like shock pulse: orb more as a sig spell, for some reason, arcane dynamo seems to work best with magic missile of any sort over shock pulse or electrocute. Because of my lack of 120 AP, and no passives left to devote to ap gen, I use attunment to help me cast more meteors more often. I have to cast sig spells anyways due to needing to stack Dynamo.

Dynamo is there as a massive DPS generator. It favors very slow, high damage spells. It's practically a must for both arcane tornado builds and meteor. Arc orb obliterate may also function well with it. 5-6 magic missile hits is enough to max the stack. And the buff is a multiplier...so molten impacts 338% weapon damage spell becomes a whopping 591.5% total damage. Add to that the increased damage from conflagration, which buffs all damage done to target by 10% for 3 seconds when hit with fire damage (meaning fellow party members get it to) from either a previous meteor or the hydra, and your meteor is doing a whopping 650% weapon damage if you get all the burning ground ticks in. That's before a crit. I regularly see 50-60k crits with a 600 dps weapon and 1165 int while solo.

A note about Dynamo. It is consumed by Hydras, but does not buff hydras. If you use this build, and have a full stack, cast meteor first, followed by the hydra. The hydra will hit first anyways.

This is probably the only high dps build that could possible use an un-runed skill. When dealing with runners or mulitple mobs, if you're having trouble getting the mammoth to hit targets reasonably (cast it behind you or close to you to get foes to run along the path), go with plain flame hydras. Less damage output then the mammoth, but more accurate when dealing with fast mobs, and less arcane power intensive.


Meh I dislike magic missile cuz its so boring, but I know where you're coming from with this. more ap = more meteors I like some aspects of this build, and I will try it out but I will switch out magic weapon for my trusty slow time. When you get in a pinch it acts both as a damage increase and escape ability along with teleport/mirror image.

[MaxFrost]

Double posting, just coming back to say:

Nevermind, with templar buddy to slow things down/trip them up, you can indeed solo act 1 inferno with this build! At least if you don't get something too terribly nasty

[MaxFrost]

Meh I dislike magic missile cuz its so boring, but I know where you're coming from with this. more ap = more meteors I like some aspects of this build, and I will try it out but I will switch out magic weapon for my trusty slow time. When you get in a pinch it acts both as a damage increase and escape ability along with teleport/mirror image.

I'm not the biggest fan of it either. However (and it works actually fairly nice with this build) it generates dynamo stacks faster then any other of the signature spells. It may be something to do with how it's only single target, and I haven't tried spectral blade yet with it, but it's pretty much a 1-hit to 1-stack with dynamo. Shock pulse, any variation of it, is a lot less dependable to generate those stacks, and I believe the same of electrocute.

I'm spamming Meteor as often as possible. That's where the dps comes from. MM is used to pick off runners and fill time when you can't hurl heavenly objects on monster heads.

[zircon]

I soloed through Siegebreaker. Woo go me!

[eternal Zero]

I think I finally found the build that can tank inferno as a wizard...also it uses meteor! Exciting!

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5589541421

I've tried it and it actually works really well. I don't have the full gear quite and things that don't just fight you are annoying but otherwise this is pretty splendid.

[zircon]

Inferno Siegebreaker now safely on farm mode, and I'm finally starting to make some money. A good route is to go to Rakki's Crossing, clear Northeast and check for elites or the Underbridge. Then go to Keep Depths 1 and clear 1-2 elite packs. WP to Keep Depths 3, get another 1-2. If you have Underbridge, get your 5th there. If not, go to Keeps 1 and walk to Keeps 2 and get another 1-2 packs. If you STILL don't have enough (unlikely!) then go to Rakki's Crossing and clear southwest. Should take no more than about 30 mins per run.

[Sir_NutS]

BTW there was a hotfix today that disabled the increased damage from mobs in cooperative games.

This should make melee classes' life easier when doing cooperative games. I shelved my barbarian for a while, might try it out again now and see how it feels when going in a party.

[eternal Zero]

Decided to drop a mil to get my Infernal Staff of Herding so I can do Whimsyshire runs immediately following Butcher runs cause while I can do Siegebreaker runs solo I die a lot and it's frustrating when I come up to combinations I just can't kill. It's a lot easier to kill everything in Whimsyshire for a DH even if they have stupid mods on them cause nothing leaps at me. First run I found a set piece of the barbarian armor which isn't great but hey not bad for just one run and it'll definitely pay back the price of the staff. It's nice that with my magic find gear I have base 153% magic find so with 5NV I'm going to be finding some nice stuff.

Also I think after my big exam Friday I'll start up a hardcore character since I'll have more time to play and I've been wanting to do that for a while now.

[eternal Zero]

Just found the wizard chest set piece. Now I have 18% more magic find. Sweet. With 5 NV I have 244% MF.

[BardicKnowledge]

Newt and I are starting Act IV hardcore tomorrow -- it's a whole different game there. Should be through normal by Monday if things continue to go well.

The sticky moments thus far:

Act I Highlands -- watch the poison clouds after you get Karyna's Staff.

Act II -- Belial fight you have to play 100% defense when the arms go down.

Act III -- Suicide minions; they're not hard but you have to have a way to deal w/ them.

We expect Izual to be the sticking point for Act IV overall. For the opening fight Tom (wizard) will AoE stuff down while I (barb) build enough Fury to cast Earthquake + Ancients.

[Gario]

Mmm, if I had a computer that ran the game at 100% speed I'd get in on hardcore in a heartbeat. As it stands, though, there's something like a .5 - 1 second delay to everything (due to my graphics card, not my internet connection), so I can't physically avoid certain circumstances. Makes the occasional death impossible to avoid.

One suggestion I'll give to you, though, is to either break from play only after large quests are finished or refresh a given quest from the beginning whenever you enter a new game. It'd be a real bummer to have a lag spike the moment you enter the game... and you enter the game in the middle of a dungeon full of nasty baddies (had it happen to be earlier today... good times :???:). That'd be a horrible way to lose a hardcore character.

[eternal Zero]

Yeah pro-est of pro tips for hardcore: Never EVER resume game. Always restart the chapter.

Edit: Also don't use the Enchantress' mass chicken spell. There's a chance it will backfire and polymorph you instead of the mobs.

[zircon]

Oof, the Tyrael nerf makes Siegebreaker runs a decent bit harder. Elite Lashers, Demonic Tremors and Swift Skull Cleavers are very hard to deal with for me since even with pretty high defensive stats, any of those can basically 2-shot me - to say nothing of their modifiers. It takes more like 45-60 mins now to do a run assuming I run into at least one impossible champ pack (like Fast, Invulnerable Minions, Vortex, Molten). Admittedly it was kind of stupid that Tyrael did like 40k DPS and could finish elites/bosses for you, but now he adds basically nothing, so that makes it a lot tougher.

[Mr. Bottle Rocket]

I'm waiting on 1.0.3 to continue my campaign through inferno as a barb.

[Faustt]

I want to love this game, but progression is a bitch. Stuck at the end of Act 2 Inferno and I just lack the skill to not get hit once during the Belial fight (Playing a WD).

I in no way feel entitled to be able to complete inferno, it's supposed to be hard. Farming Act 2 is horrible because of the mob types (damn you Lacuni and those vanishing snakemen!). Act 1 isn't too great either since a large amount of people are doing the same thing, so the AH is flooded with gear that doesn't equip you well enough for Act 2 and beyond. To top it off inflation is getting worse by the day. When I first hit Act 2 a month ago, gear upgrades were about Half a million to 1 million gold. Now upgrades are 5+ million a piece with rare drops that I get selling for less and less each day. I don't have the time, or will to farm that much.

I'll probably keep at it though. It is digital crack after all.

/rant

[zircon]

Interesting that you say gear is inflating in value... I don't think that's true at all. Prices have definitely gone DOWN as people progress into Acts 3-4 and farm up better stuff. When I first got to Act 1 I was able to sell a 660dps 1h weapon for a decent amount. Now, that's basically worthless and impossible to sell. You need to break about 800dps for anyone to care. Likewise, 1k 2h weapons used to be millions, now they are 30-50k. It could be that what you're observing is a result of YOUR gear improving... thus upgrades for it are correspondingly rare/expensive. My Act 1-2 Monk gear was worth <4m but now I'm probably at >10m in Act 3.

[Faustt]

It could be that what you're observing is a result of YOUR gear improving...

This is true. My stats were a lot worse when I started Act 2. I'm at 30K DPS before soul harvest with ~20% crit chance ~180 crit damage now. Upgrades don't come cheap anymore and that's to be expected. An offensive gold find set would probably be a good investment. As you said, it's hard to sell the low end 60 gear for much anymore which is all you get from Act 1. It would be nice to get a drop that's actually and upgrade without having to hit the AH.

The consensus among most Witch Doctors is that a glass cannon build is about the only way to go post Act 1. As a WD you can basically die once every 90 seconds and be saved by Spirit Vessel. That said, it's really hard to only get hit once every 90 seconds, especially by certain elite groups.

The way I see it, to progress as a WD you can either have skill and kite like a champ avoiding absolutely all damage, or offset it with better resists/vitality to survive a few hits here and there and sacrifice DPS. Of course gear that's Resist all/Physical resist/Vitality are sought after by all the classes and therefore very expensive.

I think I'm just getting older and haven't flexed my gaming muscle as much as I used to. Just need to practice more and learn the meta game and get that fast twitch reaction time back. Maybe I should play Dark Souls again to be reminded how unforgiving one little mistake can be.

[zircon]

RMAH is out. Anyone buying/selling on there? Items selling for 30-50m gold, like Stormshields, are selling for $250 (ACTUALLY selling!) so if you have really rare items, consider cashing them in.

[Bahamut]

Hmm, so I should think about selling my Andariel's? I may have to think about it...

[Brandon Strader]

I wanted to sell something but it wouldn't let me input my paypal, it never worked. So I didn't sell anything. :|

[Hemophiliac]

Double elite mobs with vortex just isn't cool x.x

[zircon]

Haha, no they are not. Vortex is incredibly brutal in general, especially in Inferno when combined with Molten, Arcane Enchanted or Fire Chains.

[Brandon Strader]

Is Paypal working yet?

As for enemies, I think I am doing better now. I just surpassed 20k DPS with my DH (only from buying a quiver and using a single handbow -- nothing major) and I am expecting to make some moves in Inferno as a result. Need to get a lot of gold, then buy inventory slots, then get more gold, and buy a new 2-handed bow.

Or if anyone has one lying around with 900+ DPS... Well, I'm open to the idea of... bownations? Bow donations.

[RiverSound]

Thanks, zircon, for the comprehensive answer a few pages back.

Recently, I heard something about them nerfing life per hit. Does anyone know if it's really going to happen, and if yes, how is it going to affect the current system? Like, will it be to the point that life per hit isn't going to work and be worth investing in anymore?

[Sir_NutS]

Yeah I just got my wizard to lvl 60 and boy is it easy mode with a ranged character. I expect to fly past act 2 this week.

[Brandon Strader]

I heard they were going to make attack speed irrelevant, which is bad news for my DH as it'd probably lower my dps by 5k

[Bahamut]

So has anyone else had their quest progress regressed from the patch? I used to be up to Black Soulstone in A2 Inferno (legitimately) and they dialed me back to Enter Forgotten Ruins in Betrayer of the Horadrim.

[Sir_NutS]

So has anyone else had their quest progress regressed from the patch? I used to be up to Black Soulstone in A2 Inferno (legitimately) and they dialed me back to Enter Forgotten Ruins in Betrayer of the Horadrim.

No but I got some achievements I don't deserve, like getting the blacksmith to level 10. I left it at level 6 or 7 yet after the patch I got the achievement.

[[]Diracy]

I heard they were going to make attack speed irrelevant, which is bad news for my DH as it'd probably lower my dps by 5k

http://i.imgur.com/wZk1Q.jpg

[Sir_NutS]

Diracy;865911']http://i.imgur.com/wZk1Q.jpg

Attack speed is often misleading as a damage increase. Attack speed only shows its true benefits when you are standing there just casting or shooting, and on inferno we all know that is nearly impossible unless you're running with a group with good tanks. Attack speed reduces the cast time of abilities tho, so it makes you cast and kite easier, but it's not a direct damage increase as the tooltips and damage number in your character sheet makes it out to be.

However, there are some exceptions for IAS on some abilities where it acts as a direct damage increase. For example, Hydra benefits directly from IAS.

The spells that benefit the most from IAS are channeled spells and abilities, and as far as I remember the DH has none.

[Brandon Strader]

I've got multiple items with +14% attack speed, and as far as I can tell they stack. I actually seem to be faster with the single handbow than I was with 2 now. If they disable that, it's gonna be rough ;D

I spam evasive fire with multishot. It is my favorite DH attack.

[Sir_NutS]

I've got multiple items with +14% attack speed, and as far as I can tell they stack. I actually seem to be faster with the single handbow than I was with 2 now. If they disable that, it's gonna be rough ;D

I spam evasive fire with multishot. It is my favorite DH attack.

IAS % stacks, of course. It just doesn't benefits your damage as much as you character sheet makes it out to be. It bloats the numbers.

[Brandon Strader]

Well if I get 2 shots in in 1 second instead of 1 shot, then it doubles my damage per second, doesn't it? :-D

[Sir_NutS]

Well if I get 2 shots in in 1 second instead of 1 shot, then it doubles my damage per second, doesn't it? :-D

It does, but it doesn't really work that way. You won't really do 2 shots per second until you've stacked a hefty amount, what will happen is that you will get 1.50 shots per second, then 1.60 and so forth. To take advantage of this difference you have to stand in place and shoot for quite a few seconds, which isn't really how inferno is played by ranged at the moment.

Some abilities like Hydra benefit the most out of IAS because the hydra attacks the mobs and it doesn't matter if you stand in place or not. Melee take more advantage of IAS because they have to stand and hit the mobs for quite a while. In short when there's lots of movement involved you will get more dps out of raw damage than from IAS, however IAS helps you kite better (faster cast time on abilities)

[Vakri]

The item system in this game is just way too simple. There are too many "essential" stats and the extra bonus modifiers are few compared to D2 (as well as other Diablo-esque RPG's such as Titan Quest). They're also incredibly boring and not very useful. Gold/orb pickup range increase? Extra life from orbs? Skill improvements that amount to "5 less mana per cast" or "5% extra damage?" Come on.

Sure, they help, in an incredibly boring, uninspired way, but ultimately they help so little that no sane person would actively look for those stats on their gear, at least in the higher difficulties.

D3 end-game is all about stacking Primary Stat + Vit + armor/resists and some IAS while doing defense-focused builds. Even if it wasn't, and you could sacrifice, say, some resist for something else, well... there isn't really much else anyway. It makes one of the primary aspects of this kind of game - finding better and better gear - incredibly boring, because a "better" item is just an item with a extra +12 vitality, +16 more primary stat, +15 more to resists, and a bit more armor. I just can't get excited about spending hours and hours farming just to get an item that has 152 vitality instead of 104, and 50 resist all instead of 30. There needs to be more modifiers, and those modifiers need to be more useful.

Legendary items, for the most part, suck, and so do Sets, meaning that collecting a whole Set or finding an uber-rare Legendary item just isn't exciting. And there are no Runes or the like to further customize your gear for a variety of unique and interesting effects.

There's also the fact that I don't think Blizzard even tested many of the skills/runes. For example, there is simply no way that any even semi-competent play tester could have possibly used any of the Witch Doctor's pets, in particular the Zombie Dogs, in higher difficulties. They are completely useless in Hell and Inferno, and not in some obscure, hard-to-detect way either; they are just flat-out useless wastes of hot-bar space. In Normal and Nightmare they are usable, but still sub-par.

Another example: Wave of Zombies. 3 Zombie Chargers that deal 71% weapon damage each, or 3 Zombie Bears that function in basically the exact same way (and cost the same amount of mana), but deal 236% weapon damage, have a larger AoE radius, and can hit targets behind you? Hmm, which should I choose?

How could anyone at Blizzard (anyone with at least a couple of functioning brain cells) possibly found these (among other) skills/runes to be at all adequate? It just boggles the mind.

I think I might just let this game sit for about a year. Maybe after some patches, content additions, skill balancing, etc., it might be worth it. But right now, I just can't get excited about the game. So many flaws, and for me, too few redeeming factors.

[zircon]

I don't agree that the itemization is too simple. It is simpler relative to D2, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. They just removed a lot of useless chaff that added nothing but false choice. For example, in D3, you might prioritize any of the following on your weapons:

* Raw DPS
* Attack speed
* Critical damage
* Life on hit
* Primary stat
* Defensive stats

In D2, there were a handful of legendaries and runewords that were obvious 'bests'. You couldn't roll an amazing rare or blue weapon for every class like you can in D3. There were tons of useless mods in D2 as well, and the best mods tended to not even roll on blue/yellows, meaning you HAD to trade to get the best stuff. In fact, blue/yellow armor was also basically useless in D2 with the sole exception of extraordinarily uncommon rare rings, amulets and tiaras, which were only good for certain builds of certain classes. In D3, rare armor is fantastic and competitive with legendaries, while blue armor is occasionally better as a low-cost alternative (whereas in D2, blue armor was garbage 100% of the time).

I'd definitely like to see stuff like spell procs in D3 but I could do without light radius, ethereal, worthless damage/magic damage reduction, self-repair, insignificant elemental damage, attack rating, mana, etc.

Looking at the bigger picture, I think D3 lends itself to greater diversity in item builds. For example, as a Monk, I have a variety of gear choices which may affect my skill build and vice versa. I could choose for a very DPS heavy build with low attack speed and a 2h weapon, and change my build to be based on heavy burst damage and kiting. I could use a dual wield build and focus on dodging and very fast attacks for sustained DPS (Life on Hit, Aspd). I could build tank stats and resistances with physical damage reduction and try to fight stuff head on. I could go for low vit and high armor, prioritizing spirit regen and life per spirit spent, adjusting my skills to generate lots of extra spirit and have a continuous stream of heals. Or a mix of any of these things.

In D2, if you picked Hammerdin, there was one set of ideal items and one way to build. My Hammerdin was identical to your Hammerdin, with the added 'bonus' that if I wanted to change anything or try a different build, I had to recreate my character. In D3, BardicKnowledge and I both have Monks, but enjoy tweaking our builds in various ways, either through drastic overhauls or minor tweaks to single runes.

Getting back to itemization, saying that legendaries are mostly bad is flat-out false. Legendary weapons are usually not good, however legendary armor is very frequently the best option for a given slot (though not 100% of the time). I can think of dozens of legendary items, set and unique, that are BiS for Monks in particular, and I know from reading D3 forums that other classes are similar. Look on the auction house and you'll see how valuable amazing legendaries like Stormshield are.

With regards to skill balance, it's unfair to say that Blizzard should release a perfectly balanced game with this level of complexity. If you compare it to highly lauded games like Skyrim, I think D3 is infinitely more balanced, and certainly FAR more so than Diablo 2 was, even LoD after tons of patches. My understanding is that Witch Doctors are indeed on the underpowered side as a ranged class, but by the same token, they're nowhere near as bad as Assassins were in D2 relative to, say, Sorcs or Barbs. Obviously we'll be seeing balance improvements in the future, but every class has been able to solo Inferno (harder than anything in D2) within weeks of release so I don't think any class is currently broken.

At the end of the day, if you're not enjoying your class, try a different one, farm up, or try different builds. I was a little frustrated with my Monk in Act 3 until I swapped to a much more offense-oriented playstyle that lets me really be aggressive and sustain myself. I'm having more fun now.

[Vakri]

Just a quick comment on one part of your post before I go to bed:

"With regards to skill balance, it's unfair to say that Blizzard should release a perfectly balanced game with this level of complexity."

I don't expect perfect balance. But some of this isn't your typical imbalance issues that plague every game - it's stuff that's so pathetically easy to see that I just can't believe that any competent play-tester could have possibly not seen it. It's not like Zombie Dogs are slightly worse than some other skill or that WD pet builds are slightly less effective than some other build; they are completely and utterly worthless. Wave of Zombies as well is just so obviously inferior to Zombie Bears it's ridiculous. It takes 3 seconds of using each Rune to realize that Wave of Zombies is the same thing but worse in every conceivable way. How could these things possible get past play-testing?

[Sir_NutS]

I agree that D3 lends itself for more builds. However the reality is that this is not the case currently. Every barbarian is running the exact same skills, goes for the exact same stats, and uses a one handed and a shield. Every wiz is running force armor, and half their spells and runes are completely useless. The potential is there, I just have to agree that this wasn't playtested very well.

Another example: barbarian's fury system is completely broken. No serious barbarian takes Fury expenders on inferno (unless you're running something silly like seismic slam kite build). All barbarians are at 100% fury except for casting Berzerker or Earthquake, which happens only when you encounter a champion. The fury bar might as well not be there.

Then take the melee vs ranged gap. It's just huge at the moment. I'm facerolling act 1 and 2 with my wizard one day after hitting level 60. I still can't get to Magda with my barbarian even after spending millions of gold on gear.

I'm convinced that Inferno testing wasn't a priority for them. But I think they will get to it, eventually. They know the game is greatly imbalanced at the moment, but they are blizzard, they will eventually get to it and fix it.

[zircon]

Just a quick comment on one part of your post before I go to bed:

"With regards to skill balance, it's unfair to say that Blizzard should release a perfectly balanced game with this level of complexity."

I don't expect perfect balance. But some of this isn't your typical imbalance issues that plague every game - it's stuff that's so pathetically easy to see that I just can't believe that any competent play-tester could have possibly not seen it. It's not like Zombie Dogs are slightly worse than some other skill or that WD pet builds are slightly less effective than some other build; they are completely and utterly worthless. Wave of Zombies as well is just so obviously inferior to Zombie Bears it's ridiculous. It takes 3 seconds of using each Rune to realize that Wave of Zombies is the same thing but worse in every conceivable way. How could these things possible get past play-testing?

Dunno, but those are specific examples of a handful of skills/runes. In D2, especially at release, nearly every skill was useless in Hell. Seems like in D3 they did quite a bit better, which is impressive given that each class essentially has like 180 skills each.

Sirnuts have you tried watching Kripparian or other Barbs stream? From what I hear from other players, Barbs have it even easier than Monks, and I'm doing OK in Inferno...

[Sir_NutS]

Dunno, but those are specific examples of a handful of skills/runes. In D2, especially at release, nearly every skill was useless in Hell. Seems like in D3 they did quite a bit better, which is impressive given that each class essentially has like 180 skills each.

Sirnuts have you tried watching Kripparian or other Barbs stream? From what I hear from other players, Barbs have it even easier than Monks, and I'm doing OK in Inferno...

I watch every video that Kripparian releases. I check his channel every day, been following him since D3 launched. Kripparian is running the same specific build that is needed for barbarians to progress, and is also been spoonfed by his friends. He spent 2 straight days farming goblins for gold to progress hardcore inferno and did the same and other tactics like chest farming on his softcore inferno run.

Not only him but I do watch other good players and read about it on the official forums and on diablofans. I do my homework, I think several years of WoW raiding made me that way.

And no, Barbarians aren't doing better than monks. Monks have a few different ways to run inferno, barbarians have 1. Monks can trivialize the most important stat in the game while barbarians have nothing comparable to that. Barbs are the most broken class at the moment, hands down. Which is sad because in my opinion it's the most fun to play. Just because the most popular Barbarian around (which is one of the most popular d3 players overall) is doing fine, doesn't mean every other barbarian is.

As I said before I just shelved my barb until I can play it again in a non-retarded way. In the meantime I'm having fun with the wizard (which I can actually play like a true wizard).

[Faustt]

Wave of Zombies as well is just so obviously inferior to Zombie Bears it's ridiculous.

At level 60 this is very true. Keep in mind that Wave of Zombies is a level 33 rune while Zombie Bears is 54. So it's not exactly like the rune is always out classed by another one. There are far more worthless runes for a WD like Spider Queen, Angry Chicken or Toad of Hugeness (has some CC applications, but is out classed by something like Hex or Horrify).

As for Inferno testing. I read somewhere awhile ago in an interview that internally the testers couldn't finish it themselves. Which means balancing was never properly done for the end game when launch day hit. I completely understand why they had to do this. They wanted to give the players a real challenge. If the developers, who are developers and not necessarily the hard core gaming type, could complete it, it would be far too easy for a large portion of the player base. It's a lot easier for them balance things by making it impossibly hard and looking at the data and feedback from players. After they seeing how things worked out after going live they could dial things down to intended levels. Like Zircon pointed out, every class has 180 skills, there's no way they could have balanced it all across all difficulties.

I think this could have worked if Inferno actually was impossibly difficult. Of course people found a way to finish the game, either through legitimate means or otherwise. Instead of all classes struggling through Inferno, we have a case of the haves and have nots. Yeah, it sucks, but with a game of this scale imbalance is bound to crop up. What does surprise is is how imbalanced it is melee vs ranged. How they didn't see that is beyond me, but it'll get there eventually.

[Sir_NutS]

As for Inferno testing. I read somewhere awhile ago in an interview that internally the testers couldn't finish it themselves. Which means balancing was never properly done for the end game when launch day hit. I completely understand why they had to do this. They wanted to give the players a real challenge. If the developers, who are developers and not necessarily the hard core gaming type, could complete it, it would be far too easy for a large portion of the player base. It's a lot easier for them balance things by making it impossibly hard and looking at the data and feedback from players. After they seeing how things worked out after going live they could dial things down to intended levels. Like Zircon pointed out, every class has 180 skills, there's no way they could have balanced it all across all difficulties.

This would be easily solved by giving the tester template champs with the gear the intend people to have in order to get through inferno at each act. They do this for WoW and it works. Comparing how vanilla WoW tuning was all over the place to something like cataclysm tuning where the fights were very well tuned for the most part, I'd say that method works.

And what boggles the mind is not the subtle things, like Vakri said; it's the glaring issues. An easy example: get a barbarian to 60, try to clear act 1 as dual wield, then try to do it with a shield. The difference is INMENSE. It only takes 15 minutes of testing to realize that DW is just not viable at all.

We're not talking about quirky builds here (even though they said quirky builds would totally work on inferno), we're talking about something as basic as a DW barb. It just wasn't tested.

And say for example compare the viability of running energy twister on a wizard vs running hydra. Any runes for both. It just something that doesn't take more than 15 minutes of testing by one single person. It really shows that Inferno testing was practically non-existant.

[zircon]

Beat Inferno with my Monk, woo! Here's my writeup on it (stats, items, build etc)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/v44km/i_did_it_beat_inferno_on_my_monk_after_111h_total/

[Neblix]

Can someone who's played inferno and beaten it as a Wizard explain to me WHY diamond skin is not recommended? Because that's ludicrous to me...

[Tensei]

If I had to guess it's because the damage block on Diamond Skin eventually can't keep up with the damage scaling from monsters so you get oneshot with or without it.

It used to be exploitable with the Force Armor rune that reduced damage from every hit to 35% of your max HP at most, which, in combination with deliberately low vitality would let you shrug off a lot of damage. Of course, now Force Armor won't work if a single hit would take off more than 100% of your HP, so that doesn't really fly anymore.

[Neblix]

I thought Diamond Skin blocked all incoming damage. That's what it says it does. >_>

So you're saying I've screwed myself by not practicing how to defeat hordes without it? It's the only way I was able to defeat Diablo (on normal).

[Tensei]

Diamond Skin absorbs only a certain amount of damage, and can be glyphed to absorb a higher amount.

This is mostly theorycraft as I don't have an Inferno Wizard, but the way it is with the other two ranged classes is that at some point it's just not really feasible anymore to sacrifice any DPS in favor of survivability because you really need obscene amounts of resists, armor and HP to be able to tank anything.

Typically you just want to kite and avoid everything while hopefully dealing enough damage to kill of your enemies before you run out of resources/cooldowns for your defensive skills.

[Neblix]

Diamond Skin absorbs only a certain amount of damage, and can be glyphed to absorb a higher amount.

This is mostly theorycraft as I don't have an Inferno Wizard, but the way it is with the other two ranged classes is that at some point it's just not really feasible anymore to sacrifice any DPS in favor of survivability because you really need obscene amounts of resists, armor and HP to be able to tank anything.

Typically you just want to kite and avoid everything while hopefully dealing enough damage to kill of your enemies before you run out of resources/cooldowns for your defensive skills.

Noted. ( ¯^¯)

[Sir_NutS]

Gratz Zircon on the inferno clear!

Anyone has had any luck with the RMAH? I've managed to sell an utterly crappy legendary and a decent rare for 8 bucks.

[ShrackAttack]

I sold everything decent my barb had and made roughly 300$. I probably could've put my stuff up for more but wanted it all to sell. My brother has sold absolute TRASH items compared to what I put up and a few of his sold for 50-70$ each. It makes no sense.

As far as barbs go, sure the game is hard past Inferno act 2, but once you get even pretty decent gear you can mostly blow through the game. Some elite packs are just impossible though without the best gear, but once you're in godlike gear (20% string of ears, stormshield, decent helm of command, lantern ring) you can pretty much face roll the entire game without paying attention.

I was around 1000 vit/str, 850-1050 resist all, 55khp, 26-30% block, and I think 15-18k dps or so depending. Went Frenzy, wrath of the berserker, earthquake, revenge + provocation, ignore pain + iron hide, and the armor + resist shout for most of the game. Passives were the obvious, both armor ones + superstitious usually.

Whats a bit more hilarious is now I just bought a bunch of straight strength + critical hit chance to do weapon throw spec for super cheap and im farming with a wizard/witch doctor combo and am doing ridiculous damage. However, i have to play with basically zero escapes and everything one shots me. I'm running about 1700 str + 52% crit chance with only around a 1200dps 2hander. And most of my gear is trash since I basically have no actual gold anymore :P.

[Brandon Strader]

Gratz Zircon on the inferno clear!

Anyone has had any luck with the RMAH? I've managed to sell an utterly crappy legendary and a decent rare for 8 bucks.
Last I checked, paypal still wasn't working. I don't want no blizzard bux. :-o

[Sir_NutS]

Actually Brandon, Paypal works. But the in-game link doesn't. Follow this link instead to set it up:

https://us.battle.net/account/d3/auction-house/landing.html

[Brandon Strader]

Yar! Got it working, and put up 10 auctions. I guess we'll see how this goes. :-)

[zircon]

Uh oh, attack speed nerfs coming. Blizzard is taking their typical heavy-handed approach and basically cutting all IAS values in half. So, base weapon speeds won't be affected, but any attack speed bonuses on other equipment will be nerfed severely. Everyone thought they would be doing a 'diminishing returns' kinda deal, but evidently not. This is going to hurt Monks severely since we depend on IAS not just for damage but for spirit generation and sustain (life on hit). :(

[Neblix]

I saw a black mage with proper capitalization and got excited.

For a small moment.

[Sir_NutS]

Uh oh, attack speed nerfs coming. Blizzard is taking their typical heavy-handed approach and basically cutting all IAS values in half. So, base weapon speeds won't be affected, but any attack speed bonuses on other equipment will be nerfed severely. Everyone thought they would be doing a 'diminishing returns' kinda deal, but evidently not. This is going to hurt Monks severely since we depend on IAS not just for damage but for spirit generation and sustain (life on hit). :(

the IAS nerfs will come in the same patch as the Infeno nerfs, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Brandon Strader]

Uh oh, attack speed nerfs coming. Blizzard is taking their typical heavy-handed approach and basically cutting all IAS values in half. So, base weapon speeds won't be affected, but any attack speed bonuses on other equipment will be nerfed severely. Everyone thought they would be doing a 'diminishing returns' kinda deal, but evidently not. This is going to hurt Monks severely since we depend on IAS not just for damage but for spirit generation and sustain (life on hit). :(
This is gonna hurt me a lot too. Cutting in half... my attack speed might go down by 25% or more.. that's about the same as a frenzy shrine.

[Bahamut]

1.0.3 comes out today. Guess I won't get to see what it's like until 2 weeks later since I leave today for annual training with my unit.

[zircon]

Wow, two popular streamers (Kripparian and Krippi) just beat Inferno Diablo... on Hardcore. Amazing.

[Faustt]

Patch is interesting so far. The attack speed nerf means my casting animations are a little longer than before, so I get caught by mobs more often mid cast now. I was only using 15% on one piece, so it's not a big adjustment. Glass canon isn't as viable any more since repair costs went up so much. Death actually carries some weight now which is good.

The damage nerf in the higher acts means I can actually wear my resist gear and not get one shotted still, so yay for that. I'm down from 42K DPS to 19 now wearing it though.

Thankfully I was able to down the Siegebreaker before the patch hit today. No way I'd be able to handle reflect damage AND an enrage timer with my DPS cut in half.

I was slowly doing Siegebreaker runs before the patch and dying left and right from surprise ranged attacks. With the changes in drop rates I'll probably be doing Warden/Butcher runs with a 5 stack then hit Whimsyshire. Probably not as good loot wise, but a much safer route until I get my resists/health up some more.

[Global-Trance]

Wow, two popular streamers (Kripparian and Krippi) just beat Inferno Diablo... on Hardcore. Amazing.

Yeah this is an incredible feat! They managed to pull it off before the difficulty nerf. A lot of people who felt brickwalled by Act 2 and Act 3 are now facerolling mobs. It all depends on how you're built of course but it just sounds like they nerfed too much, including the difficulty itself.

Big ups to their hardwork and dedication on that world first clear though. Wow!

[ectogemia]

I don't think I ever posted my contact info for you people.

ECTOGEMIA#1224

Let's farm shit.

[Vakri]

Personally I'd like to see difficulty changes that aren't just "less/more damage, less/more health," at least with regards to the end-game (Inferno).

I think enemies should gain new abilities. Things like shield skeletons gaining a stun-bash that leaves you vulnerable if it hits, giant spiders being able to spit acid pools that do damage over time and/or lower the armor value for those standing in the pool, zombies that can revive themselves and/or explode in a cloud of poison upon death, etc. Basically, things that make difficulty a little less about "do you have enough Resist + Armor + Vitality to survive being hit by high spike damage mobs" and place a little more emphasis on active dodging, situational awareness and proper skill management.

[Vakri]

Sigh... I keep trying to like this game (and Blizzard for that matter), but then things like this happen:

My WD, who's current build is based on Zombie Bears, is worthless. Not because of a nerf, but because the last patch completely broke the skill. In typical Blizzard fashion, they haven't even acknowledged the issue, nor is there any kind of ETA on a fix.

Reminds me of when Warlocks had flat-out broken Talents and were overall waaay underpowered after WoW's release, but they just left them as-is for who knows how many patches until the community got so mad that Blizzard finally decided that something HAD to be done... so they gave Warlocks a free mount to try and shut the Warlock players up. When that didn't work, they finally started to actually fix the class. Guess some things never change...

[Mr. Bottle Rocket]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCI2gZhtvSM
^Kripparian killing inferno ghom with WD, bears seem ok to me, bro.

[Vakri]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCI2gZhtvSM
^Kripparian killing inferno ghom with WD, bears seem ok to me, bro.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5913061953

[Mr. Bottle Rocket]

Huh, well good to know.

[Vakri]

I guess there was a post yesterday regarding Zombie Bears. It's not very encouraging, though:

"Hey guys!

Happy Friday, I have some good news for you. We have decided to make a 1.0.3a patch to fix some critical issues and I have convinced the developers to include the fixes to the two Zombie Bears issues that arose after 1.0.3 launched. Thank you very much for your patience everyone, and for your discussions on these forums, Reddit, fan sites, and other places. It's awesome to see such an active community.

This patch does not have a release date yet, but it will be releasing in the near future (as in before 1.0.4) :)"

So basically, Zombie Bears is broken as all hell, but Blizzard wasn't even going to address the issue until "Quality Assurance" man Vasadan convinced them to do so. Really instills a lot of confidence in the developers dedication to fixing broken mechanics and WD's specifically...

If this were any other MMO/online RPG (aside from WoW), a quick 10 second patch download would fix this issue promptly (Guild Wars would tell you to log off and back on to download a quick update, which would take a total of a few minutes), but because it's Blizzard, we'll have to wait for some unknown Tuesday when the whole game will go down for 6+ hours just to apply a few bug fixes, and chances are, more issues will arise anyway. Color me frustrated...

[Brandon Strader]

I sold all of my tomes of jewelcrafting on a whim, had 53 of them and the unit price was a little over 1,000 each. They sold before I even finished my auction house selling which usually takes like 4 minutes. :-o

Seems like an easy way to make almost 50k before tax. Or, you know, collect an assload more and make some easy cash. I wonder how people get like 20 million dollars to buy some of this stuff. EH.

[zircon]

How to make money? Farm, of course. I don't have that many hours logged (relatively speaking) but I've found numerous items that sell anywhere from 10-50k each to millions. Generally, look for stuff with high values of any one particular stat, socketed items, items with 40-50+ all resistances, critical hit %/damage, shields with high block % and block damage, 1h weapons of ~700+ dps and 2h weapons of ~900dps.

Given current crafting prices, you should always salvage items with character level requirement of 60 (or 59 if they are follower special, or jewelry). This is assuming you would get nothing on the AH. One blue essence from a salvaged item sells for about 1700 gold right now.

[Brandon Strader]

DUDE!!! I dropped those off at the merchant a long, long time ago because I didn't feel I needed them ever. Now that I know, I will be breaking down crappy gear and selling the essences on the AH. Might take longer than just selling the items though, and repair costs -_- sheesh.

[Brandon Strader]

One blue essence from a salvaged item sells for about 1700 gold right now.

Ugh. I got some Shimmering Essences not realizing that you probably meant whatever the Inferno essences are... dang. Got some on my Witch Doctor in Nightmare difficulty. Lame. :-) Maybe I'll make a couple hundred gold though. lol

Oops double post. I am sorry. Please merge my 2 posts if you can. Sorry.

[HoboKa]

Diablo has gnarly boobs

[Sir_NutS]

So, by now everyone knows what some of us saw written on the wall for a while now: Diablo 3 didn't have the legs D2 had.

My friend list is dead, and I feel no incentive for logging in and play. it was very fun while it lasted though.

I just read patch 1.04 is coming in the next few weeks. It will make inferno easier but I feel this is too little too late. I honestly felt the extreme difficulty of inferno along with the auction house were the main cause of this game's lack of longevity.

Inferno's difficulty proved to be counterproductive to the main goal of diablo 3: build diversity, and the auction house also countered one important aspect of any ARPG: the item hunt.

Is anyone here still playing the game? anyone plans to return anytime soon to it?

[Tensei]

I don't know, I liked the game throughout but I just stopped playing it in favor of Dota 2 and I recently uninstalled since I wasn't playing it anyway.

I might return to it once it has had some content patches (in a few years maybe) but I don't see me getting back into it anytime soon. This is kinda how I played Diablo 2 as well though, I only played it every couple of years but I would play it very intensively for short periods of time.

[Gario]

I actually would like to log on and play periodically, but Blizzard shut down my account. Kind of a dick move on their part, actually.

One issue with the game that I could notice is that they have an easily reachable level cap without too much endgame content. D2 had a level cap that was all but impossible to reach (yet was something people could always strive for), and WoW had enough endgame content to make their level cap relatively meaningless. D2 also had the smart idea to NOT give the players the option to change how their character was built mid-game (In a much later patch there was the limited option for a stat change, but even then it was limited in it's use). D3 is fun, but I could see people dropping it off once they've done everything that there is to do.

Still, the story content was good, and the game play was great. It's just not nearly as enduring.

[Neblix]

No, Blizzard, additional difficulty modes does not count as additional hours of content.

[ectogemia]

So, by now everyone knows what some of us saw written on the wall for a while now: Diablo 3 didn't have the legs D2 had.

My friend list is dead, and I feel no incentive for logging in and play. it was very fun while it lasted though.

I just read patch 1.04 is coming in the next few weeks. It will make inferno easier but I feel this is too little too late. I honestly felt the extreme difficulty of inferno along with the auction house were the main cause of this game's lack of longevity.

Inferno's difficulty proved to be counterproductive to the main goal of diablo 3: build diversity, and the auction house also countered one important aspect of any ARPG: the item hunt.

Is anyone here still playing the game? anyone plans to return anytime soon to it?

I agree with all of this...

...although to say that D2 had a diverse set of viable builds would be false. Granted, it was still more diverse than what D3 permits.

Yeah, I sorta thought the auction house was the killer. *THE* reason I have *EVER* played MMOs or D2esque games was for the item hunt. Yes, there have always been player-to-player transactions of some kind in every MMO, but often, there are no-drop items (or whatever other MMOs call them; I only have Everquest terminology to work with :P) that can only be obtained by killing monsters or completing epic quests and cannot be traded. These items are, rightfully so, the most powerful. Putting a price on power cheapens the process of developing a powerful character.

So that being said, I don't have plans to play it as much as I did when it came out, but I might log on from time to time. It just doesn't have the staying power of other similar games, and it certainly lacks the je ne sais quois of D2.

[Sir_NutS]

I agree with all of this...

...although to say that D2 had a diverse set of viable builds would be false. Granted, it was still more diverse than what D3 permits.

Yeah, I sorta thought the auction house was the killer. *THE* reason I have *EVER* played MMOs or D2esque games was for the item hunt. Yes, there have always been player-to-player transactions of some kind in every MMO, but often, there are no-drop items (or whatever other MMOs call them; I only have Everquest terminology to work with :P) that can only be obtained by killing monsters or completing epic quests and cannot be traded. These items are, rightfully so, the most powerful. Putting a price on power cheapens the process of developing a powerful character.

So that being said, I don't have plans to play it as much as I did when it came out, but I might log on from time to time. It just doesn't have the staying power of other similar games, and it certainly lacks the je ne sais quois of D2.


The main problem with the AH is that it doesn't work for a game like D3. It works in World of warcraft because there you can't get all you gear from the AH alone. You need to play the game, earn the drops or accumulate points to do so.

In D3, is the other way around. Doing Inferno feels like work because you know that 99% of the drops will be absolute trash and all you're doing is farming gold to get the items you want from the AH. You feel like a chinese gold farmer. The excitement of picking up drops and finding what they are isn't there because of how the game is built around the AH and gold farming. you know most of the loot will be trash, you're there to accumulate gold to play the AH.

I bet a lot of people enjoy the gold farming but I think the way you earn your items in D2 and other ARPGs like torchlight is much more rewarding. You play the game not to face a brickwall or to farm gold, you play it to build the character you want with the loot you get. I honestly think the AH was the biggest mistake they did in the development of D3. Most design problems stems from the fact that the game is built around the AH.

Anyways, anyone heard of this game called Path of Exile (http://www.pathofexile.com)? It looks interesting so far. It has a huge skill tree (seriously look it up its huge) and a really interesting way to build items.

[Brandon Strader]

So they're making Inferno easier again?

I might have to play D3 again someday. I never did manage to get my Witch Doctor up to level 60, totally just gave up on the game and moved on like everyone else.

Though I gotta say it's legitimately fun to start a new character and start unlocking skills for it.

[Sir_NutS]

So they're making Inferno easier again?

I might have to play D3 again someday. I never did manage to get my Witch Doctor up to level 60, totally just gave up on the game and moved on like everyone else.

Though I gotta say it's legitimately fun to start a new character and start unlocking skills for it.

yeah basically they're nerfing champion packs again, and nerfin co-op difficulty. Also nerfing the affixes on champion packs and getting rid of some bullshit ones (like invulnerable minions). Also getting rid of more BS like elites recovering their health after a while and enrage timers.

[Brushfire]

Why does anyone still play this game?

[Omni-Psyence]

Why does anyone do anything?

[Sir_NutS]

Why does anyone still play this game?

Well that's the point, no one does anymore. But some people still care it seems (I do).

[SuperiorX]

Yeah I agree the Auction House kinda ruined the game for me. At first I loved being able to buy sweet items, but then I found myself caring more about looking through the AH instead of actually playing the game. What's the point of replaying through all the difficulties when the best items are in the AH? I've only played one character class so far tho, so I am still interested in replaying the game with the other characters, at least.

[ectogemia]

I bet a lot of people enjoy the gold farming but I think the way you earn your items in D2 and other ARPGs like torchlight is much more rewarding. You play the game not to face a brickwall or to farm gold, you play it to build the character you want with the loot you get. I honestly think the AH was the biggest mistake they did in the development of D3. Most design problems stems from the fact that the game is built around the AH.


I've played D2 a fair amount since it came out, and I've *never* once picked up a single item that I actually was able to trade, and I found only a few items I was able to use (aside from 50 dozen Lidless Walls or so). I found a high rune, *once*. This, after probably a couple thousand meph runs. I've actually found more usable gear in D3 than I ever did in D2. My D2 wealth was built by working people to get insane deals on good items, then selling them back at twice the price :D D3 removed most of the personal facet of trading with the auction house which forced me to farm to become wealthy, and that became a chore after a couple of weeks.

[Gario]

I've played D2 a fair amount since it came out, and I've *never* once picked up a single item that I actually was able to trade, and I found only a few items I was able to use (aside from 50 dozen Lidless Walls or so). I found a high rune, *once*. This, after probably a couple thousand meph runs. I've actually found more usable gear in D3 than I ever did in D2. My D2 wealth was built by working people to get insane deals on good items, then selling them back at twice the price :D D3 removed most of the personal facet of trading with the auction house which forced me to farm to become wealthy, and that became a chore after a couple of weeks.

You never played a pure run of D2? You'll find plenty of items you can use, then - that's the only way you can progress, in fact.

[ectogemia]

You never played a pure run of D2? You'll find plenty of items you can use, then - that's the only way you can progress, in fact.

Actually, no, haha. My friends and I had always rushed one another and then grushed once LoD came out. I don't think I've ever played D2 through naturally.

[Gario]

Actually, no, haha. My friends and I had always rushed one another and then grushed once LoD came out. I don't think I've ever played D2 through naturally.

Well then, yeah, you'll never find anything "useful", then - rushes take a lot of the thrill out of the game. Do a pure run sometime - you'll be learning the gambling mechanics and prioritizing all sorts of stats, and a lot of those 'useless' items suddenly look like godsends.

Do it in hardcore and you'll be hooked on the damn game all over again.

[ectogemia]

Well then, yeah, you'll never find anything "useful", then - rushes take a lot of the thrill out of the game. Do a pure run sometime - you'll be learning the gambling mechanics and prioritizing all sorts of stats, and a lot of those 'useless' items suddenly look like godsends.

Do it in hardcore and you'll be hooked on the damn game all over again.

Getting hooked on a game is the last thing I need in my life right now. There's a reason I started doing the one hour compo D:

[zircon]

I'm really looking forward to 1.0.4. I think D3 is a great game overall. I've played 200 hours or so, and for $60 that's a hell of a deal. Knowing Bliz they will continue to refine and polish things, add content, etc. I never had a problem with Inferno's difficulty either, having beaten it before even the first nerf. It was a fantastic feeling. I also remember when Zero and I beat Belial on Inferno for the first time, and how psyched we were to have done so.

The auction house is an interesting conundrum. In D2, the dupe economy and spamming in trade chat was not exactly ideal. On the other hand, the AH trivializes the early difficulties, and does take away a bit from the item hunt. The best solution would probably be items that bind on pickup and cannot be traded. That, or items you find/craft yourself have some kind of special bonus(es) that are removed when you trade them or sell on the AH. Anything to make your OWN finds more special.

I'm not really playing my Monk anymore since I already cleared Inferno with her and built up my DPS to something like 41k, which is pretty hard to do as a Monk. I got a little bored of farming and not finding anything good to sell, whereas upgrades cost insane amounts. Co-op was, as Bliz noted, clearly a worse option than solo play due to the huge monster scaling. I'm glad they're fixing that. I've been leveling a Barb to 60 in the meantime and playing a bit of Hardcore on a Demon Hunter.

As for pure runs in D2... yeah, I played through the game maybe once or twice total, everything else was just getting rushed. There was little motivation to actually play everything through. I'm glad the NV system encourages you to farm big swaths of acts in D3.

[Bahamut]

For me, I can't beat Inferno Ghom after 1.0.3 - sure, Ghom used to be cake for range characters, but he became significantly more challenging - I lost incentive to play after then.

[ectogemia]

the best solution would probably be items that bind on pickup and cannot be traded. That, or items you find/craft yourself have some kind of special bonus(es) that are removed when you trade them or sell on the ah. Anything to make your own finds more special.

this this this this.

[Vakri]

Personally I think BoP with the ability to trade any items you get with those you were playing with when you found them (for a limited time at least) would be ideal.

Of course something like this will never happen, as there's no money to be made with such a system.

[zircon]

That's a cynical view. I actually have a huge problem with everyone wailing about how Diablo III is "balanced around the AH" or that all of Blizzard's decisions are to make more money from the RMAH. It's a logical fallacy. Anyone who played Diablo II saw the prevalence of people buying items from shady 3rd party sites. The same thing happened (and is happening in WoW). It would have been absolutely stupid for Blizzard to just plug their ears and pretend people weren't doing that, so they did the best possible thing - offer a legitimate, safe option that wouldn't encourage the black market.

More to the point, if Blizzard only cared about RMAH revenue (which I can't imagine is at all significant relative to the 10m+ sales of the game itself) they wouldn't have made multiple changes that reduce the need to use the AH/RMAH:

* 1.0.3 Inferno nerf
* Act 1/2 ilvl 63 buff
* Acts 3/4 ilvl 63 droprate buff
* Upcoming 4x drop rate on trash buff
* Upcoming Inferno nerfs

All of these things reduce the need to use the auction house. Blizzard is not retarded. They're also not being controlled by Activision (something that has been debunked repeatedly.) They're doing their own thing just as they've always done. Diablo III is an interesting property because the Diablo series has always had a massive unedground economy. It was simply the right call to offer a first-party, legitimate and safe way of exchanging money/goods.

[Sir_NutS]

More to the point, if Blizzard only cared about RMAH revenue (which I can't imagine is at all significant relative to the 10m+ sales of the game itself) they wouldn't have made multiple changes that reduce the need to use the AH/RMAH:

* 1.0.3 Inferno nerf
* Act 1/2 ilvl 63 buff
* Acts 3/4 ilvl 63 droprate buff
* Upcoming 4x drop rate on trash buff
* Upcoming Inferno nerfs

All of these things reduce the need to use the auction house. Blizzard is not retarded. They're also not being controlled by Activision (something that has been debunked repeatedly.) They're doing their own thing just as they've always done. Diablo III is an interesting property because the Diablo series has always had a massive unedground economy. It was simply the right call to offer a first-party, legitimate and safe way of exchanging money/goods.

I don't see it that way. Diablo 3 has been bleeding players extremely rapidly since launch. I had a 30+ people in friend list and now when I log its always empty. These changes aren't made with the mindset of "let's make people need the AH less" but rather "let's make people play the game again". More people playing = more people using the AH/RMAH, because even with these changes, people still have to use it to be able to gear up.

About the underground economy I do agree something had to be done but I don't think the AH is doing any better. In fact, I think it's worse because it made the game's objective to farm for gold which isn't exciting at all imo instead of making the game about the item hunt.

Without the AH we would have to do direct trades with other players but at least the game wouldn't be just about farming gold. If you found a decent item you can save it and do a trade with another player who might be interested. I don't know, I just hate the fact that all you do is farm for gold on inferno, that's not fun gameplay for me. Direct trading works just fine for other games, TF2 for example.

[Melbu Frahma]

Read this (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/9848-Diablo-III-Is-Broken) a few days ago, and meant to link it here, but forgot. Found it an interesting read on the subject.

[zircon]

Direct trading is fine when there isn't a massive underground economy like there was in D2. When you have a big black market you should try to deal with that by making legit ways of acquiring items, even with real money.

[Sir_NutS]

Direct trading is fine when there isn't a massive underground economy like there was in D2. When you have a big black market you should try to deal with that by making legit ways of acquiring items, even with real money.

The underground economy is still there BTW. It's just not the majority of the economy now but still an important chunk of it. The AH got rid of most of the underground economy, at the cost of what makes an ARPG addicting and durable. it wasn't a good trade IMO.

[zircon]

I just don't think conceptually it's a bad idea. As I said if they just did bind-on-pickup or bind-on-trade items, that would basically solve the problem. Alternatively, make it so you can't buy/use AH items beyond your current progression level. It's sort of stupid to go from 2k dps at level 59 to like 15k at level 60 because you have a godly weapon bought for 20k gold. There should be a requirement for ilvl 62-63 items that you clear content.. unless you find the items yourself.

Anyway, yeah, Blizzard obviously has an interest in getting players back because a healthy playerbase is important for any game. It's not BECAUSE of the auction house. I mean they were patching Diablo 2 for years and that had no auction house of any kind. Why would they do that unless they actually cared about the playerbase and the good of the game? Some of those patches were as recent as 2010 iirc.

[Bleck]

Maybe if they released a finished product they wouldn't have had to worry about re-gaining the interest of players.

[zircon]

http://www.diablofans.com/news/1317-unofficial-patch-104-changes-class-changes-new-items-affixes-and-more/

HOLY CRAP. Assuming these datamined notes are true, and they might not even be complete, this is practically like an expansion in terms of awesome changes and new stuff. Tons of class balance changes (BUFFS), like 40-50 new legendaries with insanely awesome unique procs, new 2-handed affixes, new 'paragon' XP levels (?!) presumably for when you hit 60... just wow. This is outstanding. Combine that with the server-side changes like getting rid of Invuln mobs, reducing the BS elite affixes, making elite packs easier but trash mobs harder, increasing drop rate on trash by 4x, and it looks like Blizzard is going to knock it out of the park.

[Brushfire]

http://www.diablofans.com/news/1317-unofficial-patch-104-changes-class-changes-new-items-affixes-and-more/

HOLY CRAP. Assuming these datamined notes are true, and they might not even be complete, this is practically like an expansion in terms of awesome changes and new stuff. Tons of class balance changes (BUFFS), like 40-50 new legendaries with insanely awesome unique procs, new 2-handed affixes, new 'paragon' XP levels (?!) presumably for when you hit 60... just wow. This is outstanding. Combine that with the server-side changes like getting rid of Invuln mobs, reducing the BS elite affixes, making elite packs easier but trash mobs harder, increasing drop rate on trash by 4x, and it looks like Blizzard is going to knock it out of the park.

Way to go, you just got placated by a bad game.

[Bleck]

All of those things sound good, but don't actually change any of the fundamental problems with the game.

[Brushfire]

All of those things sound good, but don't actually change any of the fundamental problems with the game.

Like how boring the game is, and how it is nothing but a ratwheel of a gear quest.

[Bleck]

Yeah, more or less.

[zircon]

As opposed to what? All Roguelike/hack & slash games are like that. You level up, find gear, and kill hordes of monsters. The fun is in the variety of items, the variety of powers/skills you get, and the difficulty of the monsters and their abilities. It's not supposed to be like World of Warcraft where raids are carefully choreographed 'theme parks', or Zelda, focusing on puzzle-solving and small skirmishes. I mean you might as well say the problem with the FPS genre is that you do too much shooting. You're complaining about a basic part of the game.

But hey, if you don't like the style of gameplay, that's fine too. I think the problems with Diablo 3 on launch were the following:

* Uneven Inferno difficulty (fixed, and getting another fix)
* Many skills not useful (getting fixed)
* Many legendaries are bad (getting fixed)
* No motivation to play co-op (getting fixed, better multiplayer scaling)
* No reward for playing at level 60 beyond finding items (getting fixed w/ paragon levels, I assume)
* Not enough items with unique abilities promoting different gameplay (getting fixed)
* No pvp (not being fixed right now, but planned for 1.10)
* Drop rates too low (getting fixed)
* High level items don't drop in early inferno (fixed)

So I think they're on the right track.

[Vakri]

As someone who's had a lot of bad to say about this game, I do think this is a good step in the right direction. I'll probably reinstall and play again after this.

[Bahamut]

Someone I met at a run was talking about the upcoming 1.04 patch this past Monday. It does sound interesting indeed.

[Brandon Strader]

Making it auction house early on was nefariously brilliant.

Who knows how much cash they've made with that. Especially with the bit of duping that went on. Those Stormshields can sell for $250 a pop.

[Bleck]

As opposed to what? All Roguelike/hack & slash games are like that. You level up, find gear, and kill hordes of monsters.

Yes, but there are a few fundamental things that D3 does different than most dungeon crawlers (including its predecessor) that are enough to spoil the whole thing for me. Some of them you already named (skills that are worthless, no pvp, no incentive to play the postgame beyond itemgrind), but the biggest thing for me was the large majority of the maps not being randomly generated.

Unlike in Diablo 2 or, say, The Binding of Isaac, this means that playing through the game over and over involves playing the exact same levels over and over. The randomly generated dungeons and areas helped to disguise how much of a mouse wheel it was by forcing you to actually use your brain to navigate new areas. Diablo 3's static areas literally had me falling asleep when I tried Nightmare, because there was nothing new to see or do except hope for better equipment.

You're right that the basic idea of these sort of games is level up, find gear, and kill monsters, but Diablo 3 managed to make all three of these things not rewarding. Leveling up to 60 is pointless because of the nonexistent post-game content, finding gear is pointless because the gear doesn't serve any purpose (again, no post-game), and killing monsters is pointless because half of the skills that the characters have are worthless and half of them don't really involve any strategy or forethought at all; I've played through the game as a Demon Hunter and a Monk so far, and the most useful skills on both of those characters were the ones that let me hold down RMB and watch all the monsters slowly die. Flashy, yes, but not really all that entertaining when I could be playing something like The Binding of Isaac instead.

I mean you might as well say the problem with the FPS genre is that you do too much shooting.

Imagine if Halo 4 came out, had a cool, fun little single-player deal, and then the multiplayer/post-game content was Master Chief holding a gun in a blank, featureless space and shooting at a generic Halo enemy forever. You can't move, or jump, or do anything but shoot at this enemy.

I'm not complaining about the shooting, in this case - I'm complaining that there's nothing else. Every genre can be stripped down to a specific concept, yeah, but there are no good video games that are just that concept out there, because they end up being bad video games. Like Diablo 3, a game where Blizzard expects you to grind for items for literally no other reason than to grind for items. I, for one, am tired of video game companies treating people like rats in an operant conditioning chamber.

[zircon]

Well, this is where it comes down to preference, I guess.

Leveling up to 60 is pointless because of the nonexistent post-game content

I thought leveling to 60 was one of the most fun parts of the game. Again, I don't know where this notion that all video games should be about the end and not the journey came up. I literally could not stop playing until I hit Inferno. It's incredibly addicting how you grow in power and constantly get new skills & runes. Plus, because the difficulty is tuned much better in Normal-Hell (unless you use the auction house, which I mostly didn't) you feel like you're very powerful, but that there's a decent challenge starting in NM. It's funny because on the reddit Diablo forum, which is VERY negative overall, almost everyone agrees that the basic 1-60 leveling experience is really fun and done well.

I don't get the supposed endgame of Diablo 2 either. That was probably my favorite PC game ever, and I bought it about three times with expansion, but it had very little in the way of endgame. Hell was overall a joke of a difficulty. You could get rushed to 70-80 in less than an afternoon and beat Baal easily. There was no challenge that compares to Inferno in D3. The endgame was searching for items. It took them something like 6 years after LoD came out to actually add any additional monster content in the form of Ubers, which were of course easily farmed by many. So what exactly are you remembering with regards to D2 endgame? The way I played it, along with most people I knew, was that we would all roll new characters periodically, level up, grind gear, get maxed out, and then stop.. then do it again in a year.

Let's talk about PVP. I would love to see D3 PVP, sure. But I doubt it will be any more interesting or serious than D2 PVP, which was essentially a joke (and this is coming from someone who actively PVPed). D2 PVP was 99% Amazons with Burizas or Windforces shooting guided arrows from 3 screens away. There was no semblance of balance, especially after 1.10 when they basically gave everyone Teleport and Whirlwind via runewords. Why people think this was such an amazing thing is beyond me. I had fun with it, but only because I had a group of intelligent people to play with. Trying to do any kind of organized PVP in public games was impossible, and don't even attempt to tell me the hostile/PK thing was fun or an 'endgame'.

That being said, I agree skill diversity isn't optimal in Inferno, and I think Blizzard realized this, hence all the skill buffs coming up. Monks were probably most limited of all, but now that you can actually output serious damage with stuff like Wave of Light and SSS, I think you could make a very fun build focusing on burst damage which previously was impossible. With 2handers being buffed and all the numerous legendary item -> skill boosts I bet there could be a lot of other fun possibilities as well.

I do agree on map randomization. It's fine for outdoor areas like Act 1 stuff, but no idea why a lot of the dungeons aren't more randomized in terms of layout. My guess/hope is that Blizzard will run with the idea someone suggested of an endless dungeon with increasingly hard monsters as you go down. Even if you don't get unique loot there (just ilvl 63 stuff), it would be fun to brag about how far you got.

[Brandon Strader]

They made it sound like inferno was worth playing because you'd get better items...

I mostly got level 55 items in inferno up through act 2.

Bunch of bull... haven't played in soo long. :3

[zircon]

I don't think the draw of Inferno was supposed to be better items... they pitched it as just being a big challenge, for people that like being tortured with difficulty. And that's pretty much what Inferno was, though it has been toned down since. They also improved drop rates and made ilvl 61-63 items drop in Acts 1-2. Plus they're making ilvl 61-62 weapons better next.

[HoboKa]

I don't think the draw of Inferno was supposed to be better items... they pitched it as just being a big challenge, for people that like being tortured with difficulty. And that's pretty much what Inferno was, though it has been toned down since. They also improved drop rates and made ilvl 61-63 items drop in Acts 1-2. Plus they're making ilvl 61-62 weapons better next.

Well, if you look at Diablo 2, leveling up was still sort of the endgame for the player - along with finding phat loot. Making a level cap of 60 is a huge mistake for a dungeon crawler game, unless you have good 'end game content' - which I guess was never really the main focus of the Diablo series (at least to the best of my knowledge). Different generation of gaming?

EDIT And I quoted the wrong post. GG me. Anyways I have only one thing to say about Inferno. "We doubled it".

[zircon]

I really don't get why people found that funny or stupid or bad design. I actually think Inferno should have been even harder, along with Hell, but don't put all the best item drops at the end of Inferno. What happened was a few people used exploits (basically) to get to Act 3/4 to farm as DH/Wizard, which then messed up the economy. Meanwhile, it took hardcore players WAY longer to beat Inferno for the first time because the economy didn't have the same problem.

Anyway, I don't think having an XP grind was meaningful at all. It was really easy to hit level 80 or so; you could do it in a few hours. 80-90 was like a few days maybe. Then after 90, you leveled up so slowly that it was basically pointless. I don't think I had any characters above 90 or 91, and most were 75-80.

[Sir_NutS]

Zirc, I don't think you really get what the problem was with inferno.

I try to keep comparisons to D2 outside of the discussion because D2 is a 12 year old game. You would expect a company like freakin Blizzard to do better on their on 12 year old product.

They actually pitched inferno as being difficult, but they ALSO said that you could play inferno with your own builds. I linked a couple of videos about it in this thread. I can't beat inferno unless I play one of the cookie-cutter shield barb builds, and when i get like a billion gold or so, THEN I can play a barbarian the way I would like to play it.

I hate to repeat myself but the worst thing about D3 is the AH. It ruined everything. It ruined the item farm, which in turn ruined the economy, which in turn ruined the diversity, which then ruined the difficulty. Who the hell cares about an Inferno clear? pick a cookie-cutter build, go with it and there you go.

D3 was incomplete and untested at launch. The game was fun till you get to inferno, then it's just a gold farm/follow the best build game.

And after taking a look at the patch notes, I don't think it's gonna get any better. Some of the skills, like Wizard's meteor, got a good buff, but most of the useless skills in all the classes got a 10-20% buff which IMO wont be enough and they will have to just patch it again later. Who the hell is going to take bash over frenzy for just a 10% damage buff? that's incredibly stupid.

The legendary procs look nice though. I really don't see this patch making my friend list get more active again (well, except for Zircon it seems XD) luckily this isn't WoW and I can just log in and check stuff after the patch without having to pay monthly for it, so I'll see you guys in-game.

[Hemophiliac]

I still play, nobody plays with me though :(

[Bleck]

I'd also like to point out that removing the ability to rush lower level characters is bullshit - all it means is that I'm going to be level 40 fucking forever, since all my friends are already at level 60 and the only way I'll catch up is by playing through the game six or seven more times.

[Bahamut]

Diablo 3's problem is that it's being compared with Diablo 2, a game that had an expansion and a lot of polishing through patches. It had a lot of time to mature & gain a ton of content. Perhaps it'll take Diablo 3 time to reach that point - it may never reach that point also. It's hard to judge at this point though.

[zircon]

Paragon Levels confirmed. Awesome!

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6968517/Introducing_the_Paragon_System-8_20_2012

The XP grind from Diablo 2 is back full force. Each level gives you permanent stats, MF and GF, plus an aesthetic addition to your character portrait. Bravo on this Blizz!

[Ramaniscence]

Soooo...they raised the level cap...without raising the level cap...and we're...excited?

[relyanCe]

huh. think i'll play again.

[zircon]

Soooo...they raised the level cap...without raising the level cap...and we're...excited?

Well, it would have been unrealistic to expect them to make another 100 levels worth of skills and runes. Impossible, really. Most players just wanted a little bonus that came from playing the game, much like how in D2 you got your little 5 stat points per level. It's not like a level 95 character in D2 was truly more powerful than a level 90, you just had a slight edge. Getting permanent MF/GF and stats for grinding and doing runs is a very nice reward, particularly if you're on an unlucky streak. You can always look to your XP bar and see progress being made. A LOT of players + streamers were asking for this exact feature.

[Clefairy]

Interview with David Brevik, co-founder of Blizzard North and design lead on D2:

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/interview-diablo-creator-david-brevik-discusses-his-feelings-on-diablo-3

[HoboKa]

Interview with David Brevik, co-founder of Blizzard North and design lead on D2:

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/interview-diablo-creator-david-brevik-discusses-his-feelings-on-diablo-3

I just about shit a brick there - thought it was fake, but its real =/

You should read Jay Wilson's facebook comments regarding it too. Well, the entire D3 team's =p

[Sir_NutS]

This is a good addition, something a lot of people have been asking for. I hope it brings more people back into the game too.

[ectogemia]

It's enough to make me want to come back and play some... especially during class. I've found pathology lecture to be a particularly good time to farm.

[Hemophiliac]

the patch is tonight :D

[Sir_NutS]

Cant decide if i wanna play my wiz or barb for paragon levels. But I'll be playing right after the patch, if anyone wants to join me for a few runs.

[Hemophiliac]

guys add me :) Hemophiliac#1883

[Level 99]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/08/blizzard-to-extend-diablo-iii-endgame-with-100-new-character-levels/

"With the release of the upcoming 1.0.4 patch, level 60 characters in Diablo III will start earning experience towards a new set of "Paragon levels" with each monster they kill. Besides upgrading characters stats like standard levels, each Paragon level will also increase your character's ability to find gold and magical items by three percent. That should help prevent what Blizzard calls the "demoralizing" problem of playing for hours without finding any good items, and prevent players from having to resort to tactics like "Magic Find gear swapping" (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6583302/Magic_Find_Gear_Swapping-7_3_2012) just to find the best loot. Paragon levelers will also get "a distinctive increasingly impressive border" around their character portrait for every ten levels they earn."

I know this was previously discussed but...seriously? So you have to get to top level, just to start grinding on the same character again in a DIFFERENT leveling system. I am confuzd.

[relyanCe]

The idea is, as I see it, that upon reaching level 60, players are no longer rewarded for further gameplay time they accrue, despite there being a potentially infinite system in place for rewarding players in this way.
This concept is nothing new to the RPG experience, but is one of the first times I've seen it deployed in an online setting. It's something you usually see in games like Disgaea, Final Fantasy, and Star Ocean.
In each case there is an "endgame" level tier, whereupon class features and special abilities have all been awarded and there is no more advancement in that regard. However, there still exists more potential for "hard stat building through sheer time spent playing" in the form of the typical statistical gains players found in gaining prior levels.
This is also one of the first times I've seen this concept given a separate name and actually being a separate part of the experience. I believe the current problem some are having with it stems from this striation.

TL;DR Guys calm down, RPG's have been doing this for years. They've just been sneakier about it.

[Vakri]

Anyone else see this? David Brevik was asked about his thoughts on D3 and gave an honest and rather muted response, and here's how some current Blizzard employee's reacted:http://i.imgur.com/mVhWE.png
Not shown in the pic: Andrew Chamber's comment:

"Cant wait to see how he brings all his answers to Marvels diablo clone. Looking forward to him beating us out of the industry with his actions!"

I always thought that Jay Wilson was kind of a d-bag...

[zircon]

Just stupid drama. They posted it (presumably) privately on Facebook. Brevik accused them of not reacting quickly, which I thought was a bullshit thing to say when I can almost guarantee everyone on the D3 team has been working 80 hour weeks since release (and probably before).

Anyway, as for 1.0.4, it's AWESOME. This is the Diablo I love!

[Bahamut]

Judging by the image, it's a public fb posting.

[Brandon Strader]

Yeah, the little circular earth thing means it's a public post.

They should have had Brevik's team on board to develop this game. As it is, it seems like a game that was made in a year (not 8) and now they're rolling out a bunch of updates to make it more like Diablo 2. -_-

[Bleck]

Brevik accused them of not reacting quickly, which I thought was a bullshit thing to say when I can almost guarantee everyone on the D3 team has been working 80 hour weeks since release (and probably before).

Working 80 hour weeks, or being at work for 80 hours a week? :<

[Vakri]

User Kost at MMORPG.com sums up my feelings on the matter nicely:

Brevik's comments were in no way disrespectful and absolutely did not warrant the childish backlash he received from Jay and Jill. If you read between the lines it's quite obvious he is actually holding back in an effort to remain respectful and professional.

To which, the lead designer for one of the most well known and cherished franchises they own, responds with what amounts to little more than juvenile name-calling on the playground during recess. That response is then followed up by support from a second Blizzard employee who takes it a step further and makes a comment aimed at Incgamers, who really were no more than the messenger here.

All because someone they should, frankly, be grateful to chose to express that he might have done things differently were he still with the company. Unbelievable.

[Sir_NutS]

Yeah I read Brevik's Interview and all he said was give his honest opinion about the game, and you know what, most of what he said rings true with everyone who has played D3. he wasn't disrespectful at all, all he said was that if he was in charge of this game as he was of d1 and d2, he would've made things a different way. As the father of this franchise I think he has the right to voice his opinion about it more than anyone else.

Anyhoo, I haven't been able to play the game yet as I've been busy D: hopefully I'll be able to log in tonight at least

[zircon]

Yeah I read Brevik's Interview and all he said was give his honest opinion about the game, and you know what, most of what he said rings true with everyone who has played D3. he wasn't disrespectful at all, all he said was that if he was in charge of this game as he was of d1 and d2, he would've made things a different way. As the father of this franchise I think he has the right to voice his opinion about it more than anyone else.

Anyhoo, I haven't been able to play the game yet as I've been busy D: hopefully I'll be able to log in tonight at least

Yeah, I gotta say, it's well-worth it. I rolled several 2 handers with 1000+ damage and ilvl 61-62 1handers with 700-800 damage, which was unthinkable or impossible in pre-1.0.4. Not to mention the 2handers had actually good affixes. The changes allowed me to swap in a new skill on my Monk (Seven-Sided Strike) and I might do more changes later as my gear shifts around. The Paragon system also makes things a lot more addicting (I hit paragon level 1, woo!) while the AH is now much nicer to use. Blizz did an excellent job with this patch.

Lastly the drop changes were pretty apparent as I was getting more blues/yellows off trash for sure.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

A friend of mine is under the impression that they may release Diablo 3 for PS3. I HOPE that's the case. Then I'll finally be able to play it, too!

[BardicKnowledge]

While this patch is very impressive, in my opinion it does not fix the core problem with the game -- gold is the endgame.

I will never have a good enough droprate that finding as much gold as fast as possible is not the optimal solution. Until that happens, I won't be as passionate about D3 as I am other games in the genre (including D2 and Torchlight).

That aside though, the patch is quite good and I'm sure I'll be back to D3 periodically, in between games of League...

[Sir_NutS]

While this patch is very impressive, in my opinion it does not fix the core problem with the game -- gold is the endgame.

I will never have a good enough droprate that finding as much gold as fast as possible is not the optimal solution. Until that happens, I won't be as passionate about D3 as I am other games in the genre (including D2 and Torchlight).

That aside though, the patch is quite good and I'm sure I'll be back to D3 periodically, in between games of League...

Yeah, this is yet again another problem that stems from the main problem in this game: the AH. But we'll see how it works after a few paragon levels + NV stacks, maybe it will feel like an item farm again. The gold farm = end game is actually my main problem with this game (which doesn't seem to have an easy fix in sight), but I'm still willing to give it a chance after this patch.

[zircon]

Actually, I legitimately think the droprate is good enough that you can find some amazing items for yourself. Gold might still be the best way to get some very specific kinds of items, but I found like 3-4 weapons in a single Act 3 run that would have been... I don't know, 1 in every 50 Act 3 runs pre-1.0.4. I found a socketed 830 damage 1h with crit damage, int, vit, as well as multiple 750+ dmg 1handers and 900-1000+ dmg bows/2handers. It's nuts!

[Tensei]

A friend of mine is under the impression that they may release Diablo 3 for PS3. I HOPE that's the case. Then I'll finally be able to play it, too!

This is about as likely as League of Legends getting ported to a handheld.

[Sir_NutS]

Got my first paragon level, it was fun. I switched my barb spec to a ww/run like the wind spec then I did a complete act 1 run and also part of act 2. Got no good drops at all, not even for putting up in the AH or upgrading my gear but the incentive of the paragon level made me keep playing.

I tried the fury spenders now that they buffed them but as I said, the buffs just aren't enough to justify using them. I've yet to try my wizard and check the buffs to meteor and other stuff.

My friends list was still empty for the most part but I did notice some people logging in briefly. I'll keep playing for some time, see if I can finally get some good drops etc.

EDIT: Also, was it just me or are mythic potions dropping like mad now? I got like 50 pots in this run o_0

[HoboKa]

Got my first paragon level, it was fun. I switched my barb spec to a ww/run like the wind spec then I did a complete act 1 run and also part of act 2. Got no good drops at all, not even for putting up in the AH or upgrading my gear but the incentive of the paragon level made me keep playing.

I tried the fury spenders now that they buffed them but as I said, the buffs just aren't enough to justify using them. I've yet to try my wizard and check the buffs to meteor and other stuff.

My friends list was still empty for the most part but I did notice some people logging in briefly. I'll keep playing for some time, see if I can finally get some good drops etc.

EDIT: Also, was it just me or are mythic potions dropping like mad now? I got like 50 pots in this run o_0

Oh man, I'm almost tempted to play again. Even if the story makes me cringe - guess I can just skip all the story sequences.

Is group play any better, or is it just the drop-rate that's better?

[zircon]

Oh man, I'm almost tempted to play again. Even if the story makes me cringe - guess I can just skip all the story sequences.

Is group play any better, or is it just the drop-rate that's better?

I haven't tried group play yet but I think it's better because the mobs only scale 75% per player instead of 115%, which was crazy. So it will actually be easier now with each player you have.

The new drop rates and item scaling are great. 800+ dps ilvl 62 weapons are quite common.

[HoboKa]

I haven't tried group play yet but I think it's better because the mobs only scale 75% per player instead of 115%, which was crazy. So it will actually be easier now with each player you have.

The new drop rates and item scaling are great. 800+ dps ilvl 62 weapons are quite common.

ooo goodie. Guess I'll install it again later today :<

[Sir_NutS]

Well, today it finally happened. I got an awesome legendary drop.

I haven't beaten diablo 3 inferno, nor I care too much about it. That would be nice of course, but the reason i play games like this is the joy of the item hunt. Today finally diablo felt rewarding at last. The paragon levels, Inferno being hard but not quite as frustrating as before, and the decent item hunt. I think we're getting to something good now. We're not quite yet there, but we're on the right path.

Thanks to Zircon for carrying me through most of that run and watching me nerd out about pixels on the screen.

[Gario]

I'd love to join, but Blizzard erased my account. That's why I don't play the game anymore. :(

[HoboKa]

I'd love to join, but Blizzard erased my account. That's why I don't play the game anymore. :(

Uh...why did they erase it exactly?? Did you troll the forums or something? Couldn't you just contact them and ask wtf?

[Syllix]

So patch 1.0.4 is out? I quit this game a while ago because there was just no item hunt, only boring gold farming. If the drop rates are decent where I don't have to spend days worth of my time to find a single nice item I can use, and if them legendaries are actually good now, I might pick this up again!

Then again... GW2 comes out tomorrow night so, first off, I must make my way over to the other thread right now :) But still, legendaries actually being legendary and not having lame random stats where 99% of them are worthless, I am very happy about some of these new changes in D3.... hope more good news will keep coming... also pvp, where i can enter a game and hostile a player would also be nice

[Sir_NutS]

well I can't believe it but, I got another legendary drop today, and guess what? it's ALSO great:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5686/legendarybracers.png

Well I guess they did fix the incredibly crappy legendary drops. Also, I'm now farming act 2 with my barb, dual wield barb nonetheless. What I'm the most happy about is that I've got some rare drops that were actually an upgrade for my barb and have allowed me to progress. You know, like how a diablo game should work.

I still have bought some items from the AH, but at least it's not entirely a gold grind now. There's hope of finding a good item if you farm for hours, it's getting better.

[zircon]

Haven't found any legendaries yet but I've found some pretty outstanding 800+ dps weapons, and some good helmets too. I think this is a big improvement for the game. However, I'm also excited that Jay Wilson noted the remaining problems/areas of improvement, and said that we can expect more stuff with future patches - for example, more difficulty (or ways to tailor difficulty), addressing the auction house vs. finding your own items, more content/randomly-generated stuff, build diversity, etc.

[Sir_NutS]

Haven't found any legendaries yet but I've found some pretty outstanding 800+ dps weapons, and some good helmets too. I think this is a big improvement for the game. However, I'm also excited that Jay Wilson noted the remaining problems/areas of improvement, and said that we can expect more stuff with future patches - for example, more difficulty (or ways to tailor difficulty), addressing the auction house vs. finding your own items, more content/randomly-generated stuff, build diversity, etc.

Yeah at least they are aware of how the AH affects so much about the game in very negative ways. Right now I would like to see the underused abilities get buffed a little more, as I said the initial buffs just weren't enough. Right now I'm running a WW barb which isn't what I want to build my barb like... but at least I don't have to use a stupid shield and I can DW and be fine. If the other abilities get buffed a little more I might be able to finally build my barb the way I want, it's very close now.

If they do that I think I will be farming D3 for quite a while. The paragon levels + less reliance on the AH is a good start.

Also, they could start with the blacksmith, it's still pretty worthless.

[Sir_NutS]

Holy crap. Tonight I did an A1 run with Syllix when this baby dropped for me:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9766/holycrap.png

:O

It was a perfect roll for my barb. That has the exact right stats for an offhand (lifesteal, crit dmg, socket, ias) and in huge amounts! and very good dps to boot!

I was about to start saving up for a decent offhand to upgrade my 600 dps one, I needed to save at least 6 or 7 M to find a decent upgrade and it wouldn't have been nearly as great as this one.

So yes, one can definitely farm our own gear now. I have been playing every day now and if feels good to farm for gear and for the paragon levels!

[Syllix]

They say doing D3 runs with Syllix will add over 5000MF.

It is known. :)

[Bahamut]

Damn, I kinda am tempted to start playing again, even if sporadically.

[Brandon Strader]

I haven't played since long before blizzard got hacked and handed my password out to everybody. I don't even know if my account still exists, but all I know is, it had better. Cause even I might play again now that 1.04 is out (it's out isn't it?)

[HoboKa]

I haven't played since long before blizzard got hacked and handed my password out to everybody. I don't even know if my account still exists, but all I know is, it had better. Cause even I might play again now that 1.04 is out (it's out isn't it?)

yes it's out. I still need 2 get to inferno ><

[zircon]

Well, I've found two legendaries in the new patch: String of Ears and Lacuni Prowlers. The latter had a terrible roll but sold fast for 1.6m. The SoE has an amazing DR% roll (perfect 20%, I believe) but hasn't sold yet.. hoping I can get like 2-3m. I've also found various weapons that have sold for small amounts on the AH. That's really the best part of the patch - good weapons are easier to find. I've bought & found some great stuff, bringing my DPS to nearly the 50k mark!

[Sir_NutS]

My barb is in a comfortable spot right now. I can faceroll a2 and I can surely do a3 (but not with enough efficiency to farm yet). I'm pretty sure i can also beat diablo at this point, but I'd like to have a3 on farm before that.

After that i think I'll level up my monk and try a 2H build. I haven't seen many 2H monks so it'll be interesting to try.

[Sir_NutS]

For those searching the AH for good deals I found a useful website:

http://www.d3rmt.com/guides/diablo-3-item-stat-maximum-values/

That page has the maximum stat possible for every piece of gear, so you know what to aim for when looking for new stuff.

[Brycepops]

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2948/datring.png

So I found this last night...

[Hemophiliac]

wow that's sick.

[zircon]

I just peed my pants.

http://imgur.com/Ij2Hx

And this is on a day where I already found an Echoing Fury (not a great one, but still worth a couple million). This chestpiece though? Gotta be the very best chest available for Wiz and especially WD. I guess I'm gonna be rich now.

[Hemophiliac]

nice find zircon!

in other news, i can't seem to login...it keeps hanging up on retrieving hero list or it gives me error 3003. :(

[Sir_NutS]

Well, in the next patch they'r nerfing defensive abilities and Monster damage and I say its about damn time.

Things got a little better for build diversity when 1.04 hit and a lot more builds other than just tanky builds became possible (I am currently running a 2H monk on A3 farm, I don't think it was possible to do before) but defensive skills were still mandatory for the most part. I sure hope I can drop some defensive passives for the next patch and try new stuff!

There are also other surprises like being able to increase monster level for increased rewards. We'll see!

[Mr. Bottle Rocket]

welp, I finally finished inferno on my barb. I haven't had much luck with the item hunt though. :(

I'm looking forward to that addition of the "players x" command.

[Sir_NutS]

patch 1.05 hits today folks! I stopped playing but I'm planning on checking it out again, lots of new stuff coming.

[zircon]

Yep as soon as I heard about 1.0.5 I stopped playing. It's going to boost drop rates, XP, items, etc. Really was no reason to play before the patch. As soon as it hits I will be back!

[Brandon Strader]

Hahaha... everyone stops playing when they hear about the next patch... I stopped playing a while ago... maybe we should all just quit until the very final patch gets released. :lol:

[HoboKa]

Hahaha... everyone stops playing when they hear about the next patch... I stopped playing a while ago... maybe we should all just quit until the very final patch gets released. :lol:

"Fuck that loser"
-Jay Wilson