Kingdom Hearts 2 'Rowdy Rumble'

[Chernabogue]

V.5 : http://www.tindeck.com/audio/image/b/yzdn (http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/yzdn/KH-II---Cerberus-Piano-Jazz)




V.4 : http://www.tindeck.com/audio/image/b/ieqd (http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/ieqd/KH-II---Cerberus-Jazz)

My second ReMix WIP is a KH II's Rowdy Rumble ReMix.
Please comment ! Freedback will be greatly appreciated !

[Uboichi2]

I like the ideas you got for the arrangement, though I have to admit that it's far from flawless. i.e. It could be really nice if the the left hand part had some extra lower octaves doubled or something. It's too much played in the same registers, while the piano has an immense range.

Other than that, I find it really hard to believe this was played and recorded. It sounds really sequenced. It sounds really mechanical and not very human.

[Chernabogue]

http://www.tindeck.com/audio/image/b/modl (http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/modl/KH-II---Cerberus-Piano-Jazz-Take-2)

Added some littles lower octaves. Thank for the advise, Uboichi !

[Rozovian]

Yes, it sounds sequenced. Sure you don't have any automatic quantization (auto timing fixes)? That would seriously screw up any human elements. Also, the full-power, max-velocity playing is really hurting the possible dynamics this track could have. Play softer at times, harder at other times, it makes it sound less like an angry sequencer and more like a human being playing.

The performance sounds pretty good to me (albeit lacking human qualities), tho the recording could use some cleaning up. There's background noise and a lot of annoying ticking sounds. Also, there's eitrher someone with a way too quiet bass int he background or there's something weird about the low keys on the piano.

I recommend you record this in midi instead. You'll lose some of the acoustic qualities of the piano, but you'll gain so much more control that it's probably better. At least if you can't record a cleaner version than this.

Also, there's a few times where I thought the hands were clashing a bit, about 2/3 through, it's like either hand is a seminote (or something) off. Might be part of the style you're going for, but it doesn't sound right.

Overall, this track has great potential, but it needs to be cleaner and more human.

[Chernabogue]

OK, I'm back with some new.
- Better Audio Quality
- Tempo Changed
Freedback will be greatly apreciated :) !
... An dthanks for your advises so far !

http://www.tindeck.com/audio/image/b/ieqd (http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/ieqd/KH-II---Cerberus-Jazz)

[Rozovian]

I can still hear some noise.

EQ down the middle frequencies, they sound a little overpowering. You should also raise the bitrate a little, 128 can mud up some of the pretty high frequencies. 160 should be fine, and over 200 is overkill.

The playing sounds more human, tho it still feels a little too loud. It's less of a problem than in the previous wip, iirc. Also, the timing seems almost inhumanly accurate (no offense :D), at least to me.

You should also apply some reverb to give it some more performance qualities. That could also mask the noise a bit, so better recording equipment would be better.

There's some crits and suggestions for you. I'm no expert on piano music, but this sounds pretty good.

[Uboichi2]

Some suggestions on the arrangement:

0:00 and 1:33 you're using that 'timpani motive' a lot throughout the song. I suggest you change that for something different just for the short parts. It'll give the listener a bit of a breather. i.e. you could make the bass line one loud note played in octaves which could be suspended for the entire intro.

1:27-1:31 You might want to play the melody here with an extra higher octave on top. Maybe add a ritunuendo, but it can do without as well. What would be cool though, is if it was played crescendo ending really loud, with a fermata on the last chord. You have a bit of climax there, but it doesn't feel like a climax, which can easily be solved with some basic dynamics.

You might also wanna add some grace notes or more harmony to the original source tune. As it is now it is a bit dull.

There are lots of different little changes you can make here and there that hardly change your song as a whole, but will improve it a lot. Just keep listening and comparing to other piano works.

[Chernabogue]

Ok, I did some littles changes, a less loud intro and the song is now shorter (the end is changed a little too).
Thank you for your advises guys !
http://www.tindeck.com/audio/image/b/yzdn (http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/yzdn/KH-II---Cerberus-Piano-Jazz)

[Uboichi2]

A major improvement!

But...

1. It needs more humanization. You should try to get in more clearer differences in dynamics. It's all a bit around MF atm. Don't be afraid to use those PPs and FFs. Also don't be afraid to use pedals. Don't overdo them either. Even though the piece has a very staccato character, it might be a good idea to drop a hint of legato here and there.

2. The audio quality needs to be beefed up a lot. At the very least some basic reverb needs to be added. I added a quick reverb to your latest version so you can hear what a difference reverb can make.
http://www.tindeck.com/audio/image/b/sfdn (http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/sfdn/Cerberus-Piano-Jazz-with-Reverb)

3. Maybe this can be really funny if you can find some good Honkey Tonk samples. I'm not really sure if it would be a good idea, but this arrangement just gives me a bit of a Wild West Saloon feel to it, which usually sounds nice with Honkey Tonk piano sounds.

Keep up the good work!

[relyanCe]

Hey dude! I'm working on this song for a possible ReMix myself, so I thought I'd share some thoughts on the song and what I think of your (extremely promising) interpretation!

First of all, Uboichi is dead on with what he said about diversifying the dynamics. A song like Rowdy Rumble shouldn't run static with its dynamics, so definitely throw in some shifts. The recurring intro theme could be a little softer imo, and the parts like that spify bit at 35" could really use some more noise. Also, the intro part seems a little drab and could maybe use a little extra speed, but that's just me.

I'm no expert, so take this for what it's worth. I really like this, great work so far!

[Chernabogue]

Oh, thank you for your freedback !

relyanCe, I'm interested to hear your WIP and to comment it, if you give me a link.

Also, Uboichi2, thank you for the reverb and for the "Honkey Tonk" idea, I'llsearch some samples. For the song's quality, I wait for my very final version and I'll try to make a 192kps version :)

[relyanCe]

Well, mine will be up in the WIP forum as soon as... well... it's halfway presentable lol. I'm pretty much done writing it, now I have to somehow produce it while working on summer courses (grad. acceleration, so you don't think I'm a failure :razz:)

[Chernabogue]

After some holidays... Major new things in the remix ! Now, it's more gloomy, like in KHII's Underworld but it's still sympathic !

EDIT : Oh, Tindeck Audio has some problems. Here's another link : http://boomp3.com/listen/c0peij1ei_0/khii-welcome-to-hell
http://www.tindeck.com/audio/image/b/tmvb (http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/tmvb/KHII---Welcome-to-Hell)

[Rozovian]

How many hands does an organist have? Even considering pedals, I'm not sure it's realistic. But it is cool.

Work some on the production, use reverb. I'd also recommend compressing the mids and lows, perhaps looking into the sample you're using, see if there's any way to boost the highs in the mid-range notes without making the higher range notes painful. Some master EQ might work, or a multiband compressor.

As for the writing, it gets repetitive, so you might want to use more than one organ, more than one instrument to get a more varied sound. Pipe, electric, there are so many types of organs and each can have a number of different sounds, not to mention ways to process the samples. From 1:32 when the writing repeats from the start of the track, you might want to swap instruments, or at least send a few parts over to another instrument... or another octave of what you've already got. Your call.

As for source usage, it's quite conservative. There's stuff I don't recognize from source, and suits the track well. I'm more bothered by the repetitition, but you might want to have a look into source/interpreation of it too.

Anyway, Uub's crits are spot on, at least the first two. Not sure I recommend doing #3, but it sounds plausible. Good work so far.

[Chernabogue]

Splitted into 3 parts with differents instruments. Also a little tempo change in the end.

http://boomp3.com/listen/c0qhwpo2r_e/welcome-to-hell

[Rozovian]

Hm... Not what I thought it'd be. It's less repetitive, but also less cohesive.

I'm hearing some stereo effect I can't quite put my finger on, it's a bit annoying. The track is obviously stereo, but much of it is so centered that it becomes annoying. Not sure if you're using a reverb here, could just be release tails, but I think you need more reverb regardless.

The middle section has a flute or something that's just plain annoying in the higher range - there's a frequency in it that you should try to reduce. It could also be a result of whatever stereo effect you've used. Some of the instruments work well, some... not quite. There's this weird synthetic sound it it all, and while it could be sampled, I'm guessing this is fully synthetic. Making it more obvious could work, but I can't promise you anything.

The final section, just strings or strings-like synth, is interesting. The speed does make it different from the other sections, but the long attacks and releases take away from the clarity the other sections had.

The repetition in the writing is still a problem. Also, the organ section is the best of the three, the others aren't nearly as refined and defined as that one. What do you think yourself?

[Chernabogue]

Hummm... Organ is good, tempo changes can be good. So I made this, it's just the organ with 3 parts and tempo changes. Perhaps, the 3rd part may be too fast. And for the writing too much repetitve, it may be because you have heard this song too many times :< That's why this version is also a little shorter.

http://boomp3.com/listen/c0stnobvs_7/hell

[PianoCat5]

To Chernabogue54, are you the same person who submitted this arrangement to Squaresound? There's a Rowdy Rumble piano arrangement on there which is exactly the same as your piano version, posted by an Adam Mclean. At least, it's the same as your old version. Just wondering.

[Rozovian]

To Chernabogue54, are you the same person who submitted this arrangement to Squaresound? There's a Rowdy Rumble piano arrangement on there which is exactly the same as your piano version, posted by an Adam Mclean. At least, it's the same as your old version. Just wondering.

Did he just call MIDI rip?

Transitions between sections suck. They need to be so much smoother to work. And you're right about the third section being too fast.

I think you're focusing on the wrong issues. The problem is that the track gets repetitive and thus boring. I'm capable of forgetting a track after I hear it a few times and crit it. It happens more often than me remembering them... I think (can't remember). The repetitive nature of the track has nothing to do with the number of times I've heard it, it's the writing and isntrumentation.

The writing is similar (plus repeated twice), and the instrumentation is just... boring (nothing wrong with an organ, but it gets old before the track is finished, especially an unprocessed organ). Also, I'm not hearing any reverb or other processing that you could use to give some more character to the track and take away from its raw writing-feel.

So no, this version isn't enough of an improvement. However, you improving is good. That's what I hope you're doing.

I think you should take a step back from the track, listen to some other organ music, and see what makes it interesting. Then see if you can do the same with this. Both the writing and the overall sound. Good luck.

[blue.nocturne]

I really don't think the organ works, at least that kind of organ you are using.
It also feels really dry and mechanical.
I would suggest sticking to piano, or to add more instruments, using the organ as the harmony rather than the main melody.
As Rozovian mentioned, the main issue is keeping it interesting, so be sure to keep playing with it.

[Chernabogue]

I have very few moments now to mix, as school is back... But here's my new ersion of the songs, I think it's really better than the previous versions.

http://www.tindeck.com/audio/image/b/zzwd (http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/zzwd/CerberusNewVersion)

[Rozovian]

Your choice of sound keeps being problematic. Try an electric piano.

Drums and transition from single instrument to band felt very unnatural. The drums and the organ aren't in the same tempo (becomes glaringly obvious around 2:11), making it sounds stupid. Using drums, however, isn't a bad idea. It just needs to fit, rhythmically and in tempo.

For most of the track, you've got this left-hand writing that's just octaves. 0:07-0:21 could work well without it, imo, especially since you've got basically the same thing at 1:04. Not telling you how to write your track, just suggesting.

I do agree that (for most part), it's better than the previous versions. You're definitely heading the right direction. Keep working on it, if you're getting better, your music is too.

[Uboichi2]

This mix doesn't need the organ as solo and then a band version. Just the band version would be way nicer. The rest of any possible comments are already given by Rozovian, so I won't repeat those. Keep it up, you'll get there eventually.

[Chernabogue]

This is the band version of the remix without percussions, because I didn't have the time to put it and I wanted to know what do you think of it.

http://www.tindeck.com/audio/image/b/jaqt (http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/jaqt/NewProjectCerberusBandClub2)


Perhaps, the samples are a little crappy IMO and it may sound less repetitive than in the previous versions.

[Cottus&Gyes]

Still too repetitive, seems as though you are only masking the same section with different instruments. I also think your instrument choice is one of your key problems.

Go back to the piano solo and add in more of your own to break up the repitition.

[Rozovian]

Repeating with the additional instruments feels a bit redundant. It doesn't really help that they're in the wrong key. :P It clashes.

It's still repetitive. Listen to some ocremixes and compare them to their source. They don't repeat themselves like this, they've got different backing, textures, soundscaping, variants of the melodies, rewritten parts, etc...

imo you should focus on the writing. Make it a cool solo organ piece, honky-tonk piano piece... something with just one instrument. Work on the progression (where it goes from what) and dynamics (how intense the different sections are), see what you end up with.

You might benefit from starting a new project, and writing this track from memory. If you get something wrong, it might be a change that improves the track, sets it apart from the original more.

If either of those things work out, if you do try them, add instruments, see if it gets better or just messy.

That's what I think. Good luck.

[Chernabogue]

Well, it has been a while since I posted here (you know what school and exams are ;))

I made another version of this song, following your advises. I took back the piano solo and added drums and organ in the end. I think it's my best version since I began this song. Please comment :) !

http://tindeck.com/image/oqwx/stats.png (http://tindeck.com/listen/oqwx)

[MechaFone]

Big fan of Kingdom Hearts music myself. If I had to give some advice, it's that this is way too close to the source material. You need some original material to go in here with what you've already got going. Sounds like you've got some originality going on here, and that's a good thing. Keep polishing!

[TheHands]

I'm not diggin' the drum samples. They seem to really clash with the piano, especially the toms (I think that's what I'm hearing, not sure). I'd suggest more hat and ride action with rim hits for the lower punctuation and some (very) light snare to balance it out for the places where you don't want it to feel more intense. In the "heavier" parts the other stuff is more fitting, but right now it doesn't really go with what you've got.

I actually really like the approach you're taking in it, as the near honky-tonk piano style isn't common, and still holds my interest.

The organ part at the end makes me think too much of Dancing Mad from teh FF6 soundtrack. It's not the arrangement, it's just the way it's used.

I like the improvement, and I think this piece is worth continuing on. The next version seems like it's going to be pretty cool.

[Chernabogue]

Hey, back with the last version, with new (and better) drums ! Please comment :-P

http://tindeck.com/image/qejp/stats.png (http://tindeck.com/listen/qejp)

[The Derrit]

the piano could use a buuuunch more humanization. each note has the same accentuation, which makes it sound strange, and also the drums are the same way, they need a little more punctuation to get across what they're actually trying to do.

[Chernabogue]

No more advises ? Please comment it to help me making it perfect :) !

And if anyone has a good title for it, don't hesitate to tell me ;)

[Mirby]

Sounds good, but as the others said, keep it interesting. Mix it up more so. It's too close to the source as is. Make it your own, make it your own personal take on the source, as with every other ReMix here.

[Chernabogue]

Just a new version to try new drums and a little piano variation in the second part (not a great improvement).

http://tindeck.com/image/rwko/stats.png (http://tindeck.com/listen/rwko)

[Ryo242]

Just a new version to try new drums and a little piano variation in the second part (not a great improvement).


Well, as a very big KH enthusiast.. (I modded 2 PS2s for the Final Mixes and Re:CoM) I see a lot of it drawing back from the original. Too much. It's way too similar to the first to be a good remix~ So now that the criticizing is done, now comes the part where I try to help and see if anyone listens..

The second part with the crazy piano I like a little more, as it adds craziness to it.

Which is what the song is about. It's a "Rowdy Rumble"; lots of Pete fights and/or mini game involving putting naughty children in boxes. Also the Hyena fights~ The point of which, it should be crazy but at the same time not crazy enough to take away from the original song.

How to do this? I don't know any techy jargin...but I would suggest speeding it up in some parts (or the whole thing after like a slow beginning). Some sound effects from KH would be pretty cool if applied in the right way, and the occasional tune that we'd recognize as the Original Song.

[Chernabogue]

New little intro, drum solo in the middle, shorter and "crazyer" atempt. Comment please :)

http://tindeck.com/image/nacl/stats.png (http://tindeck.com/listen/nacl)

[Chernabogue]

Hey, I'm back with a new version of my WIP. So what's new ? Well, now, it's more "Cerberus Rock 'n' Jazz" than only Jazz. I just hope it's not too much repetitive this time.

Please listen and comment. If you have any advise or freedback (or maybe an idea for a title !), don't hesitate to tell me.

http://tindeck.com/image/qxol/stats.png (http://tindeck.com/listen/qxol)

[KieranCarden]

Well, as a very big KH enthusiast.. (I modded 2 PS2s for the Final Mixes and Re:CoM) I see a lot of it drawing back from the original.

I did the same thing, except I used swap magic XD And now I just need to learn japanese to understand my copy of 358/2 Days :(

How to do this? I don't know any techy jargin...but I would suggest speeding it up in some parts (or the whole thing after like a slow beginning). Some sound effects from KH would be pretty cool if applied in the right way, and the occasional tune that we'd recognize as the Original Song.

I like that idea, using sound effects from KH. The first thing that came to my mind when reading that was Sora saying "Stop" from the first game. Not sure if you'd wanna use something like that (could have him say it and slow down the mix at points, or something like that) but it's a thought.

Second "idea" that came to my mind (not sure how doable this would be, hence the quotes around idea), if you use sound effects, maybe use the spell names and have the mix tempo change accordingly to what was said. Like maybe using "Fire!" to speed up the mix, whatever he says (I think it's "Freeze") for blizzard to slow it down, or give it a calmer tempo for a little bit. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, just trying to give some suggestions.

I agree it's way too similar to the first, but it's coming along. You just need to find that certain something to make it your own.

One thing I thought of was those old silent film comedies where just a bunch of crazy stuff is going on and the music kind of matches what is going on. Maybe look into some of those? If you haven't already, that is. Who knows, could possibly come up with a name that way too.

It's sounding good though, and you should definitely keep working on it. I can't wait to see what comes of it.

[Ryo242]

I did the same thing, except I used swap magic XD And now I just need to learn japanese to understand my copy of 358/2 Days :(



I like that idea, using sound effects from KH. The first thing that came to my mind when reading that was Sora saying "Stop" from the first game. Not sure if you'd wanna use something like that (could have him say it and slow down the mix at points, or something like that) but it's a thought.

Second "idea" that came to my mind (not sure how doable this would be, hence the quotes around idea), if you use sound effects, maybe use the spell names and have the mix tempo change accordingly to what was said. Like maybe using "Fire!" to speed up the mix, whatever he says (I think it's "Freeze") for blizzard to slow it down, or give it a calmer tempo for a little bit. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, just trying to give some suggestions.

I agree it's way too similar to the first, but it's coming along. You just need to find that certain something to make it your own.

One thing I thought of was those old silent film comedies where just a bunch of crazy stuff is going on and the music kind of matches what is going on. Maybe look into some of those? If you haven't already, that is. Who knows, could possibly come up with a name that way too.

It's sounding good though, and you should definitely keep working on it. I can't wait to see what comes of it.

Um..thanks? And I used Magic Swap too, it just killed the first PS2. ._. So I made the other one with the flip top. Already cleared through 358/2 Days! EPIC EPIC! Cannot find a ripped soundtrack yet though, but I so want one.

And Mr. Chernabog person guy...Where are the links?

[Chernabogue]

And Mr. Chernabog person guy...Where are the links?

Here it is : http://www.tindeck.com/listen/qxol

[Ryo242]

Here it is : http://www.tindeck.com/listen/qxol

Ah thanks. -listens- I detect the crazy, but it still feels slow. At least to me. ._. like each part is broken up to show the melodies from each section you made. Which is okay, if it was a tad slower. It feels like it's in the middle ground of too slow/too fast for either way.

Course, I have been listening to the ultra-fast version that is 358/2 Days, what with constantly chasing down those speedy Soldiers. .-. Which is pretty much what I think about when I hear this song now. Why not experimentally crank it up a bit? I know it'd shorten the song, but if you start off slow with the first part (much slower), then bring it up fast and keep it at it's fast pace with maybe a drum beat to make their head bob to the tune... -nods nods- I hope that helps?

[Chernabogue]

Ah thanks. -listens- I detect the crazy, but it still feels slow. At least to me. ._. like each part is broken up to show the melodies from each section you made. Which is okay, if it was a tad slower. It feels like it's in the middle ground of too slow/too fast for either way.

Course, I have been listening to the ultra-fast version that is 358/2 Days, what with constantly chasing down those speedy Soldiers. .-. Which is pretty much what I think about when I hear this song now. Why not experimentally crank it up a bit? I know it'd shorten the song, but if you start off slow with the first part (much slower), then bring it up fast and keep it at it's fast pace with maybe a drum beat to make their head bob to the tune... -nods nods- I hope that helps?

Yeah, thanks ! I tried to speed up (a little) the second part of the song and it sounds prety cool. (Click the image for the new WIP)

http://tindeck.com/image/tfmn/stats.png (http://tindeck.com/listen/tfmn)

[Ryo242]

Yeah, thanks ! I tried to speed up (a little) the second part of the song and it sounds prety cool. (Click the image for the new WIP)

http://tindeck.com/image/tfmn/stats.png (http://tindeck.com/listen/tfmn)

Sounding better. .w. The only thing I'd recommend now is my personal tastes which are to use some different instruments. -prefers synth on everything- But that's just me. I think whatever you want to go for from here is good.

[Chernabogue]

OK, so I think it is finished now ! If someone has a great idea for a title, please tell me =)

[Chernabogue]

(Sorry for double-posting)

Final version ! (click the picture)

http://tindeck.com/image/bvlv/stats.png (http://tindeck.com/listen/bvlv)