Soul Calibur IV

[Bleck]

3d fighters are almost infamous for being horribly broken.

this is truth

[I-n-j-i-n]

See this is why I only play 2d games competitively. 3d fighters are almost infamous for being horribly broken.

God willing with the current generation of consoles they'll start doing patches to fix this kind of potential bullcrap.

2D games can be broken too, but you normally don't have to worry about people wailing on you when you're on the floor, unable to do anything because *some* people love throwing out automatic mix-up moves with Amy or Xianghua. I can understand the need to balance the speed/power/range ratios, but if someone is good enough, the speed is all that really matters in this game. Good thing I still actually win about 70% of online matches, but against really good spammers, there's really nothing to do but spam or be spammed. Also, 2D game characters usually have very similar kind of timing and attack frames compared to 3D games (which is why Virtua Fighter is considered to be very well balanced, because they take into account the frames of animation a lot better). With all the exotic moves in Soul Calibur, the potential for abuse is in a lot of moves. Especially the fast, annoying ones with auto-parries (again with Amy). Oh, and the 8-way run almost doesn't matter since most characters are too quick to connect the next attack horizontally anyway.

I wonder how the 2D scene for Street Fighter 4 will be. Maybe the unranked battles will have people having fun and ranked will have people spamming all the time.

[Mirai Gen]

Fortunately SF4 is 2d on a 3d graphic engine. Thank friggen Christ.

Oh, and the 8-way run almost doesn't matter since most characters are too quick to connect the next attack horizontally anyway.
Oh man what pisses me off the most about 8-Way Run is that it doesn't fucking work.

Like, okay, it's supposed to counteract vertical attacks, except that not only is it too slow to do anything like you said, but half of the attacks you could even use the 8-way run on can be spammed effectively!

I love Soul Calibur but around the point when it becomes abusable and ridiculous bullshit is the time I go back to Guilty Gear and Street Fighter.

Not that those don't have their own sets of problems but at least there's a surefire way to block that involves holding back.

[Archaon]

Not that those don't have their own sets of problems but at least there's a surefire way to block that involves holding back.

Not if you're fighting Eddie there isn't!

[Bleck]

EDDIE GORDO lol

[kupernikus]

Eh this game isn't balanced, and it rewards spammers, but its stillhella fun.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I'm sorta happy now because I found a way to exploit Amy. I know I shouldn't be angry, but Astaroth players keeps giving me headaches with the long range throws. Also, even in ranked modes, some games, typically with total newbies at least turns into a non-spam affair. Like maybe 1 out of 5 matches.

And it really was a strange day a few days ago with all the trashtalkers. Tonight there weren't any, thank god. But it's really weird when you get killed by a low ranked player and they just have to rub it in the fact that you're level 40+. Because we know all high level players can't ever lose and if they ever do, they're total scrubs. /blatant sarcasm.

[Mirai Gen]

Heh, I started fighting a guy without a microphone, won twice, so he changed his character to Xianghua so he could (presumably) scrub me out of the #1 spot in the server. It was pretty funny listening to him - literally - talk to nobody for the longest time, about how "I aint playin with ya dog I an't playin with ya" and "I'mma solve this problem right now, solve the problem" and other such irritating speech patterns.

I have to wonder, when he shadow-boxes, does he talk to the wall like that? When he plays chess, does he talk to his opponent like that?

[Bleck]

how could you hear him if he did not have a microphone

[Gollgagh]

lol english

[I-n-j-i-n]

But some players do that. They are all silent until they feel the urge to trashtalk.

[JCvgluvr]

Heh, I don't use the mic a lot, personally. I like to keep it by me tho, just in case I get schooled by someone with actual skill. I make sure to let them know they're playing the game the right way.

One time after I thrashed this guy (I never spam), he kept telling me, "You're f***ing garbage!" He even felt compelled to send me a text. I couldn't believe it. Did the Halo community just all migrate to SC IV or something?

[Ramaniscence]

Did the Halo community just all migrate to SC IV or something?

Well duh. Isn't that true for most games on XBL? EVERYONE thinks they're "good at Soul Calibur" because "they beat their friends all the time." Frat boys, 13 year olds, and cool guy high school jocks around the world are learning just how NOT GOOD they are, and they just can't handle it :((

[Mirai Gen]

Hah, yeah, that's part of what I dig about Soul Calibur, finally getting a chance to beat up the people who "totally rock at Soul Calibur" because they suck.

Like, fight someone who "Beats all his friends at Halo 3 but doesn't play online" and see how well they do.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I find it funny when a spammer called me a spammer for countering his own spamming. Seriously, the SC4 community itself is broken because everyone is so dedicated to abusing moves. Last night it was pleasant enough. Tonight, it was full of same-move spammers. Now I know why so many people just dislike the scrub-tactics of fighting games. Because it's true. Spam spam spam and rake in the wins. Don't even bother making it fun or interesting because god forbid, you'll lose!

[kupernikus]

I find it funny when a spammer called me a spammer for countering his own spamming. Seriously, the SC4 community itself is broken because everyone is so dedicated to abusing moves. Last night it was pleasant enough. Tonight, it was full of same-move spammers. Now I know why so many people just dislike the scrub-tactics of fighting games. Because it's true. Spam spam spam and rake in the wins. Don't even bother making it fun or interesting because god forbid, you'll lose!

This is why the only fighting games I own are Tekken 5 (I suck and can barely beat the computer) And Tobal no. 1 (Im an unstoppable force of death and destruction.) No other game is as exploitable as fighting games, with FPS's outside of spawn camping there is nothing like this, and since I only FPS on consoles, there's no spawn camping. Racing games, nope! Sports games, not so much! Could be worse though, halo has the worst gaming community on the planet....

[atmuh]

my friend owns this game and has been playing it and stuff and he brought it to my house and i had never played it before and i won half the time just pressing buttons and i remembered why i dont like these type games so i played smash bros

[Ramaniscence]

my friend owns this game and has been playing it and stuff and he brought it to my house and i had never played it before and i won half the time just pressing buttons and i remembered why i dont like these type games so i played smash bros

Your friend must suck pretty bad at Soul Calibur.

[Archaon]

It's like they've intentionally been improving only the graphics and gameplay of the Soul series and making everything else worse.

Look at the music as an example. I know I'm not the only one out there who thinks that the soundtrack of the first in the series, Soul Blade (or "Soul Edge", depeneding on where you are) had the best soundtrack by far. I haven't played the game in years and I can still remember the opening song, the character select music and every character's theme, note for note. Hell, the game even had 2 and a half different soundtracks to choose from; you had the original used for arcade machines, the arranged version improved for consoles, and the wholly different "Khan Super Session" one. Tearing it up with Li Long to an assortment of borderline techno, rock and, dare I say it, pop music was a guilty pleasure, true, but it was good so it didn't matter.

As an aside, Li Long > Maxi. To hell with Elvis, give me my badass Chinaman back.

Anyway, over time, the soundtracks degenerated into boring orchestral waffle, with only a few tracks of note here and there. The only tunes I even care to remember from SCIII's soundtrack are Through Molten Caves and Beyond the Horizon, and the latter is just an arrangement of an SCI track anyway. Forsaken Sanctuary is OK, but damn. Go and listen to Bravely Folk Song (you can probably find it on YouTube or something) and tell me that isn't superior penultimate battle BGM. It's a friggin' pirate shanty.

And the endings. Dear god, the endings. In Soul Blade, they had the alternate-ending-on-input thing going on, and it was good. In most cases you got two completely different cutscenes for your trouble. Then they got lazy and started doing endings with just text and pictures. Then SCIII came along and they went back to the original multiple endings idea, except that this time they sucked, and now we just have a host of uniformly disappointing single endings.

That might be setting the bar a little high, though. It'd be pretty hard to top young and foolish Siegfried grasping Soul Edge's hilt and then screaming "OH GOD OH GOD AAAGH AAAAAAAARRRRGH" as it clamped down on his hand and corrupted him into the man we now call Nightmare, but who was once simply "Siegfried!"

Also, bikini Sophitia = best unlockable content ever. Not necessarily because of the acres of soft, pale, blocky, polygonal skin, but just because it's so incredibly corny, superfluous and (while I hate to say it) typically Japanese that it was awesome. This was your reward for 100 percent-ing the game. This is what bonus material should be.

And who the shit is Algol anyway and why should I care? I don't know about anyone else, but I'd have been perfectly happy with another cheap flaming skull monster.

I also don't like what they've done with Raphael, turning him from a sort of tragic, misguided character into some genocidal psychovillain who is apparently now a vampire or something. Jesus.

Jedi don't make up for this crap.

[Ramaniscence]

Note to mention.....

Each character doesn't get their own stage any mode.

Weapon demonstrations are completely gone.

Real character profiles are completely gone.

The art gallery is like 4th'd.

What we get is better gameplay, WAY better graphics, a bigger cast of playable characters (all (most) of which, while some are still pretty low tier, are viable in competition), and online play.

Ehh trade off.

[JCvgluvr]

Don't forget the lack of things like:

Charade (and, to a much lesser extent, Olcadan and the others)
Weapon Master Mode
Having 10 or more weapons per character
Team Battle
A proper shop (SC IV's "shop" system is terrible and sloppy)

2 steps forward, 1 step back, eh?

[The Coop]

Also, bikini Sophitia = best unlockable content ever. Not necessarily because of the acres of soft, pale, blocky, polygonal skin, but just because it's so incredibly corny, superfluous and (while I hate to say it) typically Japanese that it was awesome. This was your reward for 100 percent-ing the game. This is what bonus material should be.

You speak of this, yet provide no links or images of said character for proof. How mean spirited ;-)

[Archaon]

You speak of this, yet provide no links or images of said character for proof. How mean spirited ;-)

Well, the character is called "Sophitia!!" and Google won't acknowledge it when you put exclamation marks into the search field.

Besides, her SCIV costume is almost as skimpy anyway, and like Ivy she appears to have had some radical breast enlargement surgery since her earlier incarnations.

And yeah, no Charade stand-in sucks. When you play as a top-tier, cheapo character, it's kind of a lose-lose situation. If you win, it's "Well shit, you were using <whoever>. No wonder you won." If you lose it's "HAHA YOU WERE USING <whoever> AND I STILL BEAT YOU YOU SUCK"

With Charade it's the exact opposite. You never lose. If you get beaten; "Well, you know, I was using Charade. It picked out characters I'm not good with. I was at a disadvantage." If you win; "HAHA I JUST BEAT YOU USING THE RANDOM SELECT CHARACTER IN YOUR FACE BITCH"

When I played against anyone else I would always pick Charade. Nothing else is as fun. And now he's gone, the bastards.

Thank God Mokujin still lives.

[Toadofsky]

Thank God Mokujin still lives.

And I thought they put him in a wood chipper....

Shows how much I know...

[The Coop]

Well, the character is called "Sophitia!!" and Google won't acknowledge it when you put exclamation marks into the search field.

Besides, her SCIV costume is almost as skimpy anyway, and like Ivy she appears to have had some radical breast enlargement surgery since her earlier incarnations.

Sophitia is easy to find in all her "soul" forms... very easy in fact. It's screenshots of her in the outfit you spoke of that was the issue.

[Tables]

Wha-wha-WHAAAA

No Charade? Not even a ripoff?

Fuck that, I'm only renting this.

[Necrotic]

Wha-wha-WHAAAA

No Charade? Not even a ripoff?

Fuck that, I'm only renting this.

may i have your attention!

the fact that the game is fun is now void

[Bleck]

the fact that the game is fun is now void

people gotta really like fighting games it they think spam vs spam matches online is fun

[JCvgluvr]

Or they ignore those and enjoy the occasional skill-based match, like me!

[Bleck]

in this thread, occasional = 1 out of 100

[Mirai Gen]

You speak of this, yet provide no links or images of said character for proof. How mean spirited ;-)

Being totally fair, in SC4, all you have to do is Custom Character Sophitia and take off all her armor.

Bikini Sophitia = win.

Of course I'm kind of biased since my personal heaven is playing naked Twister with her.

[anosou]

Level 32 at the moment and I'm starting to doubt the matching system. I've met only level 1 characters for the last 15 or so matches :( maybe because of the timezone but europe ain't THAT bad?

bah.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Better level 1's who actually tries to try new things instead of lvl 40+s that only knows how to abuse and spam. Actually, when I make new games, I simply leave the room if a notorious spammer enters. It pisses them off, but good for them. I refuse to keep playing ploy to move abusers (I admit I should be countering them, but countering it is not only dangerous, but not fun. I don't want to spam against spammers to win.)

[anosou]

Better level 1's who actually tries to try new things instead of lvl 40+s that only knows how to abuse and spam. Actually, when I make new games, I simply leave the room if a notorious spammer enters. It pisses them off, but good for them. I refuse to keep playing ploy to move abusers (I admit I should be countering them, but countering it is not only dangerous, but not fun. I don't want to spam against spammers to win.)

It's hard to see who's a spammer but if it's a spammer I've already met, I do the same. Too bad the level 1's spam too. I mean dude, how can people actually know they should choose kilik!? It's like 90% kilik!

[BardicKnowledge]

I mean dude, how can people actually know they should choose kilik!? It's like 90% kilik!

Hey now -- if they'd try some mixups instead of just spamming his overheads, you wouldn't be complaning.... :p

[Archaon]

Truly this sounds like a riveting online experience.

I think I'll just continue playing against my friends and being told by the elitists that I suck, thanks.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

The same could be said of almost every online experience.

[Archaon]

http://images.wikia.com/soulcalibur/images/a/ac/Sophitia%21%21.JPG

There's your damn swimsuit Sophitia. With sporks for hands.

[Bleck]

The same could be said of almost every online experience.

yeah but say in a game like team fortress 2 you're completely getting owned the game manages to still be fun

with most fighting games the fun only comes from winning

[anosou]

Hey now -- if they'd try some mixups instead of just spamming his overheads, you wouldn't be complaning.... :p

Yes I would D:
They would be Kilik and that in itself is lame, in other words you're lame (even though I kinda like you)

[SLyGeN]

You were all talking about sex appeal earlier. I thought they all pretty much got extremely ugly. They've all become butter-faces since SCII. The only time my dick moved was during a match with a purple-colored Amy in fishnets. And Lizardman of course.

[Bleck]

itt slygen is a pedo

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

You were all talking about sex appeal earlier. I thought they all pretty much got extremely ugly. They've all become butter-faces since SCII. The only time my dick moved was during a match with a purple-colored Amy in fishnets. And Lizardman of course.

...I... Don't know how to respond to this post...

[JCvgluvr]

yeah but say in a game like team fortress 2 you're completely getting owned the game manages to still be fun

with most fighting games the fun only comes from winning

If an online fighter uses actual skill to defeat me, I have great fun. Heck, I even enjoy fighting spammers. Finding a way past their pitiful offense is like a puzzle. Then I can destroy them!

But I don't think I'll be playing ranked anytime soon. Now that I've got level 20 and all online-based achievements, I think things will be a little more fun and friendly in player matches.

Of course, different people find different things fun, so, to each his own. :|

[I-n-j-i-n]

It's still pretty fun online for the most part except the rankings system is conducive to frustration. Once you're higher in levels, once you lose, you lose a whopping 100 points, give or take. But when you win, you usually squeak out 20-30 points. So whenever you lose, it feels like you've lost all of that effort. It's even worse when it's a spammer or move-abuser who's beating you.

I do think non-rank online games are incredible fun though, because nothing is on the line other than just having fun and fooling around.

[SLyGeN]

...I... Don't know how to respond to this post...

Whoops. Personality doesn't match the forum :(

[Bleck]

Whoops. Personality doesn't match the forum :(

yep a whopping 99% of us aren't pedos

[JCvgluvr]

It's still pretty fun online for the most part except the rankings system is conducive to frustration. Once you're higher in levels, once you lose, you lose a whopping 100 points, give or take. But when you win, you usually squeak out 20-30 points. So whenever you lose, it feels like you've lost all of that effort. It's even worse when it's a spammer or move-abuser who's beating you.

It's just like Mariokart! I friggen hate that! When are developers gonna take the hint? Ever?

[I-n-j-i-n]

Oh yeah, and I finally got a level-down before. That's even more frustrating. I've since regained it though.

[Ramaniscence]

Note: The points you gain are based of the level difference. If you play someone closer to your own level you lose less, and gain a BIT more.

The match making matches you up with level 1s all the time though, which is where the problem lies.

[Mirai Gen]

It works kinda like the Halo 3 experience system, which works like MMO experience system - The people you fight who are better than you grant more experience than those who are worse.

You were all talking about sex appeal earlier. I thought they all pretty much got extremely ugly. They've all become butter-faces since SCII. The only time my dick moved was during a match with a purple-colored Amy in fishnets. And Lizardman of course.
...Hilarity or pedophilia and inter-species erotica?

You decide!

[I-n-j-i-n]

Note: The points you gain are based of the level difference. If you play someone closer to your own level you lose less, and gain a BIT more.

The match making matches you up with level 1s all the time though, which is where the problem lies.

I'm not sure how it exactly works because I've fought level 1s before and sometimes got upwards to 70 points for it. Sometimes losing to a lvl 1 resulted in 30 point loss or 100 point loss. Sometime the same for fighting people closer to your level.

Either way, it's an incredibly annoying and frustrating system and you should never get de-leveled IMO. It just doesn't justify your skill and experience level. De-leveling only frustrates players as I see it. It doesn't help when a handful of games results in disconnects because people don't want to lose their precious points.

[JCvgluvr]

I agree Injin. Thank goodness I'm probably going to avoid ranked now that I got the achievement.

I also got Transcend History and the World! Now I only need the GI, JI, Soul Crush, and Critical Finish achievements, and I'm done! Then I'll probably never play this game again, except with friends every other weekend.

The one problem with that? My friends suck. I destroy them. So, all they do is create characters...they won't fight me... :(

[I-n-j-i-n]

I think the best way to get those achievements is to go to some GameFAQs thread about it and do what's called a 'boosting', essentially fighting friendly matches just to get achievements. Cheap, but you sort of need to do that.

Also, player matches are definitely way more friendly and almost cordial compared to the cutthroat ranked games. For some inexplicable reason, I surpassed 1000 games on ranked. I guess I just am attracted to hostilities. I do have a winning record at least.

[JCvgluvr]

The only game I ever boosted in was Halo 3 (I got some of the more random/difficult achievements). It wasn't even really by choice, since they were all doing it, and I just decided to join them. (Isn't that how some people get into drugs? :lol:)

I might just wait and get it the long, natural way. That is, if I can get my friends to actually fight me.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Doing Player matches is fun that way though. You're not really cheating the game because there is nothing to cheat and it's mostly about just having fun, screwing around and etc. And of course, boosting as needed.

[Jam Stunna]

I've always said that SC is just a button-mashing T & A fest, and today I proved it. It was my first time playing SC 4, I went random and got Sophita (I think that's her name). Then I proceeded to mash buttons (specifically, the triangle button) until I beat the person who owned the game. There's no skill involved, just mash buttons, and you win in SC.

And I appreciate T & A as much as the next guy, but it's just ridiculous now. Breaking armor leads to girls fighting in bras and panties? I'm no feminist, and I love big 3-D rendered boobs, but they're just trying to cover up shallow, repetitive gameplay with fan service, like another inexplicably popular 3-D fighting franchise.

End rant, until I play that horrendous game again. Fuck Soul Calibur 4.

[Bleck]

I agree with Jam although I will still play the game for Ivy

[Aninymouse]

I am kinda glad I didn't blow $60 on this game, though I did have a lot of fun with SCII in college.

[Ramaniscence]

I've always said that SC is just a button-mashing T & A fest, and today I proved it. It was my first time playing SC 4, I went random and got Sophita (I think that's her name). Then I proceeded to mash buttons (specifically, the triangle button) until I beat the person who owned the game. There's no skill involved, just mash buttons, and you win in SC.

And I appreciate T & A as much as the next guy, but it's just ridiculous now. Breaking armor leads to girls fighting in bras and panties? I'm no feminist, and I love big 3-D rendered boobs, but they're just trying to cover up shallow, repetitive gameplay with fan service, like another inexplicably popular 3-D fighting franchise.

End rant, until I play that horrendous game again. Fuck Soul Calibur 4.

try that against me

we'll see how much of a button masher it is

[DusK]

I've always said that SC is just a button-mashing T & A fest, and today I proved it. It was my first time playing SC 4, I went random and got Sophita (I think that's her name). Then I proceeded to mash buttons (specifically, the triangle button) until I beat the person who owned the game. There's no skill involved, just mash buttons, and you win in SC.
You try that against someone who actually knows how to guard impact correctly and you won't even get a hit off.

The fact of the matter is that SC4 does take skill. Just because you faced one person who is obviously terrible at it doesn't mean it's a "button mashing T&A fest".

[Jam Stunna]

It doesn't have anything to do with skill. I never proclaimed that I (or my opponent) was the best. And yes, I did get my ass kicked later by someone different after that fight, but SC is still a joke of a fighter.

[Bleck]

You try that against someone who actually knows how to guard impact correctly and you won't even get a hit off.

guard impacting is such a stupid system

[JCvgluvr]

It doesn't have anything to do with skill. I never proclaimed that I (or my opponent) was the best. And yes, I did get my ass kicked later by someone different after that fight, but SC is still a joke of a fighter.

Why do you say that? We've already discussed how button mashing won't help you win. There are many techniques, as well as many counters to those techniques. There's also more depth in the fighting system then I care to elaborate upon at the moment. What's your current gripe about it?

[Jam Stunna]

Why do you say that? We've already discussed how button mashing won't help you win. There are many techniques, as well as many counters to those techniques. There's also more depth in the fighting system then I care to elaborate upon at the moment. What's your current gripe about it?

Everyone around here knows I'm a huge Smash fan, and I'll be the first to admit that it took alot of engineering and a pretty big leap of faith to make it into a fighting game. If someone were to call it a party game, I couldn't get mad at them, because that's what it actually is if you take away all of the tourneyfag rules.

The same is true for SC 4, except there is no engineering to be done. SC 3 was broken, and SC 4 has a character that cannot be grabbed, or even hit by some moves. They're not trying to make a tournament fighter, but everyone gets in a huff when you call it what it is: a button-mashing fanservice game. The guest characters and lack of apparent game testing seem to confirm that.

[Ramaniscence]

The same is true for SC 4, except there is no engineering to be done. SC 3 was broken, and SC 4 has a character that cannot be grabbed, or even hit by some moves. They're not trying to make a tournament fighter, but everyone gets in a huff when you call it what it is: a button-mashing fanservice game. The guest characters and lack of apparent game testing seem to confirm that.

Guest characters, Algol, and SW characters are tournament banned in SCVI.

You mean to tell me nothing in SSBB is tournament banned?

If Yoda is the only reason you got that SCIV is broken, you're gonna need to find something better.

[Bleck]

no entire characters are tourney banned in SSBB

[Dervish]

I don't see how you can say it's not a tournament-viable game ... there are lots of subtle intricacies in strategy and move choice, and certain moves are naturally better than others given their frame data. Just ... like, uh ... every other tournament-viable fighting game out there?

Now if you don't like the game, that's your own business, but don't claim the game isn't tournament-worthy because you don't want to spend time playing the game and learning its depth.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

...but SC is still a joke of a fighter.

Said the guy who loves Smash Bros.

[Ramaniscence]

no entire characters are tourney banned in SSBB

Good one.

Point? No stages are banned in SCIV

[Bleck]

Point? No stages are banned in SCIV

that's because taking out the stages with ringouts would shatter a good chunk of strategy

[Hector]

Correct me if I am wrong, but is not Guilty Gear considered to be a tournament game? And in one of the iterations of this game, there is the option of playing as a golden version of a certain character. This character is capable, in the hands of a player who has at least looked up the controls and managed to learn one or two moves, to beat even some of the most skilled players. And, this character happens to be banned in tournaments.

Guest characters or unlocked bosses do not have to be balanced.

As to button mashing, haven't you ever embarked to learn a new game with another person? You can both try to figure out what you are doing or you can both button-mash. When two people are just learning to play a game, button-mashing usually wins (even in Smash Brothers), and the decision of one player to button-mash ruins the experience. However, at the middle and higher levels of the game, most fighters (even broken ones) move beyond button-mashing. Take Street Fighter II, it is a pre-balance fighter, but button mashing is a very bad idea against foes with any skill.

[Bleck]

unlockable versions of characters being broken does not absolve guest characters from being so as well

[Ramaniscence]

unlockable versions of characters being broken does not absolve guest characters from being so as well

Apparently you wrote the rules on video games. So ya'know what? You're right.

Absolutely right.

This discussion is going no where.

[Bleck]

oh no that sure proved me wrong!

[Ramaniscence]

oh no that sure proved me wrong!

yea, and you saying that guest characters are different from unlockable characters when it comes to what's banned and what's not really helped proved that SCIV is a button-mashing, tournament unworthy game.

Why didn't I think of that?

[KOIndustry]

Oh this Bleck guy trolls in here too. And here I thought it was just in the politics forum!

How cute!

[Jam Stunna]

Said the guy who loves Smash Bros.


http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=447208&postcount=315

I know reading is hard, but you should try it sometime.

Fine, I apologize for letting my massive disappointment in SC 4 lash out. I still think it's little more than fanservice, but it was wrong of me to state my opinion as irrefutable fact.

[CC Ricers]

Guest characters are not held in a high regard because they're not guaranteed to be in other SC games. After all they're just GUEST characters. A one-off apperance.

However a lot of people especially have a problem with Yoda. Because of his height, he renders a lot of moves against him to be totally useless. In that respect he almost breaks the game.

[Bleck]

yea, and you saying that guest characters are different from unlockable characters when it comes to what's banned and what's not really helped proved that SCIV is a button-mashing, tournament unworthy game.

no it didn't but it did go to show that the game is not really balanced very well at all

[Ramaniscence]

no it didn't but it did go to show that the game is not really balanced very well at all

Yup. What? 5 characters? In a cast over over 30. Totally unbalanced. How could anyone ever hope to say this game is, in any way, fair? You're a master. You should put out a book. Maybe an eBook. You could make a real fortune teaching people fair and balanced arguments with hard, relevant facts that REALLY get your point across.

[Bleck]

okay rama have fun losing to kilik

[Ramaniscence]

okay rama have fun losing to kilik

Kilik? Sorry I'm not terrible at this game. Now Sophitia and Lizardman...that's a totally different story.

...DEFINITELY not Kilik, though. I know how to side step, get of range, and GI. kthx

[anosou]

okay rama have fun losing to kilik

Just learn to read him. Kilik is pretty easy nowadays, I'm having more trouble with skilled players or Amy-spam. I can't read Amy well yet :'(

I just picked up Rock btw, he's fun but incredibly bad. He's slow and all his main chains/damage moves require ground throws. These can both be ukemi'd and grapplebreaked.. but he's still a whole lot of fun. He's got a neverending throw combo if they don't grapple break :D

[I-n-j-i-n]

Rock can be good if you know some of his faster moves. You really need to weed out his incredibly useless moveset and just work on 5 or 6 he's really good at + the ground grapples.

And coincidentally, I use the Amy spam to full effect. I actually mix in at least three or four unique Amy stances, so you can't exactly call it a spam other than complete and utter domination.

Also, Amy is apparently the very top seed, even in high level tournaments. Go figure. She is really that good.

[anosou]

Rock can be good if you know some of his faster moves. You really need to weed out his incredibly useless moveset and just work on 5 or 6 he's really good at + the ground grapples.

And coincidentally, I use the Amy spam to full effect. I actually mix in at least three or four unique Amy stances, so you can't exactly call it a spam other than complete and utter domination.

Also, Amy is apparently the very top seed, even in high level tournaments. Go figure. She is really that good.

Yeah Amy's a bitch and she was a bitch in SC3 as a guest :D

Rock basically has 6K, 4B, 9B and sometimes 2A+K but that's an awkward button combination. Those moves are good and all but very easy to read since the only good low is both a bit slow and hard to pull off. In any case, I'm going to practice some more and hopefully I'll get my Wireless up and running soon so I can play some more online at dad's.

Lizardman is fun, like you said, but he's not the lizardman I learned to love in SC3. I might like him eventually but.. yeah eventually. :3

[I-n-j-i-n]

With Rock, you have to map A+K on a shoulder button or something. It really is awkward any other way. Also why the heck does his reach have to be as short as Sophitia's, I will never understand. They basically made Rock a joke character in the game and overpowered Siegfried and Mitsurugi now. Now I wish they are gone forever in the next versions or at least toned down a bit with their damage and automatic mixup. Every other online game is a snobby Mitsurugi or Siegfried abuser. I normally leave games if I know the other player only knows Siegfried, because it's like a third of the games I play now are against him. I usually beat him, but Siegfried has his up and down game powered up and frankly it's just annoying to fight him.

As for Lizardman, he's quite a bit more gimmicky in his style but he's still a very good character standing up if you know some of his standing attacks. Mainly mixing up 66A+B and 1A and others. I never really liked Lizardman until the powered up crawling stance in this version.

[anosou]

With Rock, you have to map A+K on a shoulder button or something. It really is awkward any other way. Also why the heck does his reach have to be as short as Sophitia's, I will never understand. They basically made Rock a joke character in the game and overpowered Siegfried and Mitsurugi now. Now I wish they are gone forever in the next versions or at least toned down a bit with their damage and automatic mixup. Every other online game is a snobby Mitsurugi or Siegfried abuser. I normally leave games if I know the other player only knows Siegfried, because it's like a third of the games I play now are against him. I usually beat him, but Siegfried has his up and down game powered up and frankly it's just annoying to fight him.

As for Lizardman, he's quite a bit more gimmicky in his style but he's still a very good character standing up if you know some of his standing attacks. Mainly mixing up 66A+B and 1A and others. I never really liked Lizardman until the powered up crawling stance in this version.

You get me I-n-j-i-n.

I don't really enjoy playing against Mitsu (that lowkick/slice thing is pain) but I haven't had any trouble with Siegfried so far. Mapping shoulderbuttons is an option but I'm currently using both grabs, A+B and Critical Finish. Might have to change Critical finish then.

Lizzie will require me to get used to using his stances instead of just mix-ups but it'll probably be fun.

By the way, I urge EVERYONE to take the official Soul Calibur IV Survey (http://www.whatswithinyoursoul.com/link/?i=tTJZfI). You have to register but you can tell exactly what you enjoyed/want changed in coming games or updates. Be smart now! Get rid of bonus-chars, bring back old chars and MOAR BALANCE :D

[I-n-j-i-n]

Some say with good points that Mitsurugi is probably broken and is unbalancing the game with the way he tracks players down. You can't ever sidestep him correctly since he tends to track almost all of his low kicks and most low swipes. As for Siegfried, a moderately proficient one will just mix up his stances and make things really annoying.

As for bonus characters, I never had a problem with that. In fact, I think they should have made Angol Fear and Ashelotte more powerful and unique. If anything, they should aim to give bonus characters their entirely unique moveset next time. Bringing back some old characters sounds good though. And maybe not making Rock almost useless.

[anosou]

Some say with good points that Mitsurugi is probably broken and is unbalancing the game with the way he tracks players down. You can't ever sidestep him correctly since he tends to track almost all of his low kicks and most low swipes. As for Siegfried, a moderately proficient one will just mix up his stances and make things really annoying.

As for bonus characters, I never had a problem with that. In fact, I think they should have made Angol Fear and Ashelotte more powerful and unique. If anything, they should aim to give bonus characters their entirely unique moveset next time. Bringing back some old characters sounds good though. And maybe not making Rock almost useless.

Oh, I was being unclear. Bonus as in cameos, like star wars, spwan, link and heihachi. The characters designed for the game (like Ahslotte) are wicked awesome. More of those!

[I-n-j-i-n]

I have yet to see anyone ever trying to play Ashelotte online though. I used her twice just to mess around and that's it. Her short range Astaroth style is really hard to win with. It's a real shame since she has some of the coolest design as a robot doll girl.

[Schwaltzvald]

I have yet to see anyone ever trying to play Ashelotte online though. I used her twice just to mess around and that's it. Her short range Astaroth style is really hard to win with. It's a real shame since she has some of the coolest design as a robot doll girl.

Yeah sorry I've just been unable to go to my friend's place for a while to play SCIV. I have played as Ashelotte and she's not all that hard to win with depending on who I'm playing with... Really weird since he plays it more than I do yet I can kick his ass around with Ashelotte despite the range and his preference to those like Siegfreid. Maybe I'm just used to using characters that fight up close; and he probably just sucks hard core for which I haven't realized just yet :lol: ...


I know I'm not the only one who've played Ashelotte online, which injin's post kinda surprises me.

[anosou]

I have yet to see anyone ever trying to play Ashelotte online though. I used her twice just to mess around and that's it. Her short range Astaroth style is really hard to win with. It's a real shame since she has some of the coolest design as a robot doll girl.

I still have no idea what the difference from Asta is since I haven't tried her much :D

[DusK]

no entire characters are tourney banned in SSBB
Yoda shouldn't count in the first place.

And I don't see guard impacting as a bad system. Using a parry or an impact to give yourself an advantage is crucial to not only weapon based fighting, but fighting in general. I like it better than DOA4's counter system because you have to do more than just press back and guard at the same time to do some damage.

And I beat Kilik almost all the time. Kilik is one of the most vulnerable characters to guard impacting because of his staff's travel time at long ranges. And most players play him like 80% vertical, so if I side-step frequently and use moves that flow into sidestepping, I end up winning.

[Bleck]

And I don't see guard impacting as a bad system. Using a parry or an impact to give yourself an advantage is crucial to not only weapon based fighting, but fighting in general.

it's not a bad concept

I just think it's silly that you can guard impact an attack after being guard impacted

especially if it was a just impact I mean what the hell

[Ramaniscence]

it's not a bad concept

I just think it's silly that you can guard impact an attack after being guard impacted

especially if it was a just impact I mean what the hell

GI > GI < GI > GI < DO A SLOWER ATTACK

[CC Ricers]

Just impacts cannot be reversed on you. Returning impacts is somewhat of a high skill, but in online play it is actually harder to do if you cannot compensate for the lag. It's more effective against slow-acting players, though.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I still have no idea what the difference from Asta is since I haven't tried her much :D

Ashelotte basically had 3/4th the reach of Astaroth and is much smaller. And considering most of Astaroth's game is about his ridiculous reach, that is major handicap.

As for impacts, I've seen some people do it with fair accuracy and I actually got an achievement for 200 guard impact (I think that was the number) and I did it all online. It's more of a 'what the hell, I think I'll try to guard impact and pray it works' kind of thing than something you can whip out every time. I think it's like a much less reliable version of the Dead or Alive counters.

Also, I find that Algol has a surprising lack of weaknesses for the most part and you can play him like you would with Megaman. Just blast your blaster away and mix up the sidestep bubbles and the straight bubbles and it gives even very good players a lot of problems. Then you can teleport behind them and launch them into the air with attacks. I love Algol.

[Bleck]

Just impacts cannot be reversed on you.

nope they totally can

edit: unless it's only the cpu opponents that can in which case it's still fucking terrible

[JCvgluvr]

I'd suspect that it's only cpus who can do that. Knowing how cheap they can get...

[samurai_of_plague]

I was happy when i saw the apprentice was on this game

[JCvgluvr]

Me too. I really liked his voice and design. I think he looks better here than in TFU cutscenes!

[I-n-j-i-n]

There's simply a lot more detail on the SC4 Apprentice than otherwise. Force Unleashed looks pretty terrible to me BTW..

Also, Yoda simply couldn't look much better visually. Though I wish he wasn't so slow on his feet.