ctp_epsilon suggestions(OCR TF2)

[Zephyr]

Current Version; ctp_epsilon_a2
Download link; http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=632

This thread is for suggestions to make ctp_epsilon a better map, I'm making the map for the community, so if anyone has any suggestions about it I'll definitely try to implement them.

*Check "Changes made for next version"

Known Issues/Suggestions;
- Favors scouts too much, they can cruise straight from intel room to the cp.
- *A little easy for engies to build up in the flag room and the cp.
- *Possibly make it so that a team must have complete control of the point in order to score.
- *Upon capturing the flag, make the point neutral/other teams and force the capturing team to recapture the point for the next flag.
- Windows in CP can lead to demo camping, (I'll probably get rid of some and make the others smaller so that a scout can't get in)
- *The point can be captured standing anywhere inside the building, including the corners, this area is a little big and could be hard to defend.

Currently Unfixable Issues (to my knowledge);
-Lack of CTF HUD (having a control point forces the use of the cp HUD)
-Ladders (Ladders don't technically exist in the TF2 game engine, so currently they're a really steep invisible staircase, making you shoot up them like crazy. Not really a problem, but can be confusing sometimes)

Changes for next version;
- A team must now have complete control over the point to score a cap, this means that to prevent a flag capture, a player on the other team could simply start taking the cp, then the team attempting to capture the flag would have to defend the point until the enemy teams capture status depletes. (since this is different from "reverting capture" it can actually take a very long time, perhaps I'll just make it so that the flag can't be capped while the enemy is currently capturing the point.)
- The cp is now returned to neutral after a flag is captured there.
- I have added "nobuild" areas to the flag area and the cp, engies can no longer build on the inside platforms by the windows, or inside the little building where the flag is.
- I've shrunk down the capture area for the control point and flag capture zone so it contains only a small square in the middle of the room.

Current questions,

Where exactly should I nobuild so engies still have a purpose, but don't completely dominate?

Should I change anything to do with the score HUD or the huge color bars on the flags? (I can't use the CTF Hud, the cp hud overrides it)

Any specific suggestions to nerf scouts on the map (I can make the windows a little to small for them and maybe block off the main middle ground path somehow)

[atmuh]

i wasnt around when you played it last night but ill mess around in it tonight by myself probably

[DarkeSword]

I don't think you need to make it so that complete control is had in order to cap the intel. The onus is on the other team to defend and recap the point before you get there with the intel. Something that might help with that would be to make some fenced windows so that you can SEE if someone is coming with the intel, but they can't jump through those windows to cap it. That way I can sit there and say "okay he's coming left" and we can adjust our defense accordingly.

I do like having to recap the point after the intel is grabbed; it should go neutral though. It doesn't make sense to just give it to the other team. A control point should be captured, IMO.

Oh, also: I think that the capture zone for the point is too big. You can basically just stand in the corner of the room and still be capping it, and someone running in with the intel just has to get a foot in the doorway to cap the intel. At least make them run in a little further to give the defenders a chance.

[Zephyr]

I changed a few things and implemented most of your ideas darkesword.

I did end up making it so that complete control of the cp is necessary to capture the flag, hopefully this will help the rounds become a little longer, but if it's too hard to defend I can change it back.

I also did nobuild areas, shrunk the capture zone, and made the base return to neutral upon capturing the flag.

[SirChadlyOC]

I think making you recap should add like 15 seconds or so to the time it would take to recapture the intel. This seems like not much, but it should really help the other team be able to defend their intel better next time. This is an easier solution to making it take longer to get the intel from the intel room to the capture point.

[Zephyr]

^ I agree, although, I'll still need ideas of how to keep scouts from cruising along so fast, and I haven't played the map yet on the server with you guys, but I'm wondering if the right hand side of the map gets traveled enough, the side with the one way door and the house on a platform.

And I'm glad you liked my huge pillars of color idea, it was the only thing I could think of to prevent the intel from getting lost.

[Bahamut]

One problem I have is that the map is so large, it might be better suited for a 32 player server than a 24 player server.

[Moseph]

One problem I have is that the map is so large, it might be better suited for a 32 player server than a 24 player server.

This may be part of the reason scouts dominate -- since it's large and open, it'll be fairly easy for them to see enemies a long way off and just avoid them. It's easier to defend tunnels and corridors against scouts than it is big open spaces.