Embarassment

[LuketheXjesse]

1/21/2008

If by chance you are reading this, this post was an old mistake of mine, something I'm embarrassed of. Mostly just trying too hard to be a good poster. Not only was it stupid and horribly written, but it gave me a HORRIBLE first impression on those here on these forums; some even dislike me now because of this terrible thread. A formal apology would be just too dramatic and dramatized, though. Look away, please.

[Skrypnyk]

I like songs that shit and piss all over the original feel of a song.

That's one of the reasons I became a remixer



·__.

[po!]

this "original feel" stuff is a really graaay area. you could argue that anything short of the actual original doesn't have the original feel. if someone arranged a track to have the original feel, then what's the point? why not just listen to the original. and feel is totally subjective anyways, since everybody feels somethin different when listening to music

[DarkeSword]

What are you talking about? Final Flight is very similar to the last boss theme. :\

[Liontamer]

this "original feel" stuff is a really graaay area. you could argue that anything short of the actual original doesn't have the original feel. if someone arranged a track to have the original feel, then what's the point? why not just listen to the original. and feel is totally subjective anyways, since everybody feels somethin different when listening to music

That's pretty much the end of that discussion. If you can't do a song in a totally new style, it closes off a lot of possibilities that many fans will respect and enjoy.

[Tensei]

Bullshiiiiit. Why are you even telling people what they should or shouldn't do when they're remixing a song? Remix songs yourself if you're so smart but don't impose your standards on other people, ESPECIALLY if it's on a site like ocremix where a certain degree of original material/deviation from the source is nearly a requirement for a song to be posted.

The whole idea of keeping in line with the original feeling of the song is flawed anyway, since those songs in-game are meant to underline actions/locations, a particular scene or event, or a certain character (not to mention they usually have to be loopable), whereas a remix, or ReMix, is meant to be a complete standalone piece.

[JH Sounds]

*watches thread collapse on itself*

[Archaon]

Remix songs yourself if you're so smart but don't impose your standards on other people, ESPECIALLY if it's on a site like ocremix where

standards are imposed on other people?

I mean, I'm not condemning the system or anything, but they are. If a song is too close to the original source material ("This isn't a remix, it's a cover!") or too distanced from the original source material or too short or too long or too big or whatever then it doesn't get in.

If you're going to submit anything to this site then you need to be prepared to have its standards imposed upon you.

[nrich]

standards are imposed on other people?

I mean, I'm not condemning the system or anything, but they are. If a song is too close to the original source material ("This isn't a remix, it's a cover!") or too distanced from the original source material or too short or too long or too big or whatever then it doesn't get in.

Personally, I'd much rather hear a brand new take on a song rather than an untouched composition with some soundfonts and a drumtrack

Being too conservative can be boring and being too liberal can fall apart in a lot of cases, but getting into a nice groove between both can result in some top notch remixes, especially when they take the original feel and turn it into something completely new

If we didn't challenge ourselves as remixers like that, not much would be accomplished

[djpretzel]

Personally, I'd much rather hear a brand new take on a song rather than an untouched composition with some soundfonts and a drumtrack

Being too conservative can be boring and being too liberal can fall apart in a lot of cases, but getting into a nice groove between both can result in some top notch remixes, especially when they take the original feel and turn it into something completely new

If we didn't challenge ourselves as remixers like that, not much would be accomplished

I'm djpretzel, and I approve this message.

[Archaon]

Personally, I'd much rather hear a brand new take on a song rather than an untouched composition with some soundfonts and a drumtrack

Being too conservative can be boring and being too liberal can fall apart in a lot of cases, but getting into a nice groove between both can result in some top notch remixes, especially when they take the original feel and turn it into something completely new

If we didn't challenge ourselves as remixers like that, not much would be accomplished

I never said otherwise.

I'm just saying it seems a bit silly to condemn someone for "imposing standards on others" and yet praise this site for doing just that.

[Synchronicity]

I can see both sides of this argument.

There have been some remixes that I was really excited to listen to when I seen what game and song it was. Well, the remix would not sound anything like the original and it just didn't make for that great of a listening experience.

On the flip-side, there are some remixes I've listened to that sound totally unfreakin' believable just because the remixer put his/her own creativity to it and it just make an awesome listening experience every time you listen to it.

Just sayin...

[DarkeSword]

Yes you would. You did:

Either that or the song wasn't meant to have another style to begin with; some songs just SHOULD NOT be done that way.Don't assert whether an artist should or should not attempt to arrange something in a certain style. To do so is to insult the artist for taking creative risks.

[Gollgagh]

Like I said, it can be done well. Sheesh, maybe I just sounded bad when I wrote the opening paragraph to begin with.

which is exactly why this "keeping the original feel" is silly in the first place

[Geoffrey Taucer]

To me one of the best parts of remixing is completely throwing out the original feel and seeing what else can be done with the melody. You want the original feel, listen to the original track.

[Gollgagh]

You prove a good point. That style just tends to worry me half the time because it's hard to make a good remix like that. Out of what I've heard anyway. Just to give me some inspiration could you point out some really good remixes that do just this?

http://www.ocremix.org/images/vbulletin/buttons/edit.gif

use it

[Archaon]

He means "Use the Edit button to go back and change your posts if you decide you have something more to say, rather than posting two or three in a row."

A picture really is worth a thousand words.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

You prove a good point. That style just tends to worry me half the time because it's hard to make a good remix like that. Out of what I've heard anyway. Just to give me some inspiration could you point out some really good remixes that do just this?

Sure!

http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01451/
http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01599/
http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01587/
http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01427/
http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01619/
http://www.ocremix.org/remixer/neskvartetten/ (especially http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01050/)


Those should start you off.

[Mustin]

Wow... super thread fail

[SLyGeN]

I know what the original poster is feeling, actually. Before Mithus, I never heard a track based off of Hyrule Castle (both including OCR, VGMix, and Official Soundtracks) that kept the original March and "I've got shit to fucking do" sort of feeling.

The thing is, the ReMixers aren't wrong in adding their own style to it. I should just look for ReMixes based off of source material that is the opposite of what I like :D

Mithius' Death Mountain track is also fucking brilliant because it still feels like a death march.

Lower Norfair is another good example of a track where I haven't heard a ReMix that sustains the pulsing beat that makes the track. Metroid Prime had a great version of Norfair, though. I actually heard it on Metroid Prime first, and loved it. Then I saw someone playing the final stretches of Super Metroid, and recognized the 16-bit source. It was neat.

edit: Understandable as it is, I'm amused at how the well-known ReMixers are annoyed at this thread.

[The wingless]

Cuz it's the same old song and dance

Once the Commoners(i.e., listeners who contribute nothing) finally understand that a song may not *necessarily* be made solely for their listening pleasure, things usually return to their even keel around here.

Speaking for myself, everything I've remixed has been for my own personal aural delight.

[Tensei]

standards are imposed on other people?


The difference is that I come to this site voluntarily, submit remixes to it voluntarily, and I voluntarily (try) to abide to the standards here. Nobody says I SHOULD submit to this site.

If a nobody comes along and says hey, YOU SHOULD NOT REMIX LIKE THAT, well then I'll just say fuck you to them.

[Rozovian]

The Wingless' One Girl in All the World (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01048/), one of my favorite remixes ever. As music, it's awesome. As a remix, it's awesome. It's nothing like the source track, and if you haven't heard the source over and over you might have some trouble recognizing it. It's a simple track arranged into something far more advanced, full of nuances and with a very enjoyable progression.

What it doesn't do is take a simple, beautiful, and unnerving track and turn it into bubblegum pop. The original feel isn't there, but it doesn't matter. I get what the OP and others say about the original feel, but my threshold is when it's remixed in an inappropriate feel.

OCR, however, isn't about "appropriate feel". It's about quality interpretations and productions. If you don't like a remix, don't listen to it. There are other remixes here, there are other remix sites, and if you don't like anything anybody else did, remix some yourself.

[Gollgagh]

The Wingless' One Girl in All the World (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01048/), one of my favorite remixes ever. As music, it's awesome. As a remix, it's awesome. It's nothing like the source track, and if you haven't heard the source over and over you might have some trouble recognizing it. It's a simple track arranged into something far more advanced, full of nuances and with a very enjoyable progression.

What it doesn't do is take a simple, beautiful, and unnerving track and turn it into bubblegum pop. The original feel isn't there, but it doesn't matter. I get what the OP and others say about the original feel, but my threshold is when it's remixed in an inappropriate feel.

OCR, however, isn't about "appropriate feel". It's about quality interpretations and productions. If you don't like a remix, don't listen to it. There are other remixes here, there are other remix sites, and if you don't like anything anybody else did, remix some yourself.

[/thread]

what the hell why aren't characters in brackets counted as characters

[Mustin]

No one should do anything ever! Hooray!

[glasfen]

Cuz it's the same old song and dance

Once the Commoners(i.e., listeners who contribute nothing) finally understand that a song may not *necessarily* be made solely for their listening pleasure, things usually return to their even keel around here.

Speaking for myself, everything I've remixed has been for my own personal aural delight.

As a "commoner", ouch! (though it is true)

But I know what he means about the creative process. It would be the same in any medium, be it a novel, movie, etc. Whether you're making something entirely original or, in this case, using a source for inspiration and/or substance, the joy of creativity is a big part of the reward. If OCR rejects your tune, well, that's their prerogative. You can tweak or overhaul it to meet their standards but, if that results in a remix that you no longer enjoy, what's the point? If it gets posted, great. If some people like it, wonderful. Others may not. Different strokes, folks. Creativity is personal expression and as long as you're happy with the final product, even if it doesn't make it big, congratulations on a job well done!

[anosou]

I like songs that shit and piss all over the original feel of a song.

That's one of the reasons I became a remixer



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yes.

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[Groovemaster303]

Creativity is personal expression and as long as you're happy with the final product, even if it doesn't make it big, congratulations on a job well done!

Well said.

[Salluz]

I will not name remixes of good or bad, but yes, I have run into the same emotions concerning remixing as you have. Yes, even some superb mixes didn't get me because the original was very much more of what it was meant to be.

Some themes tend to be more flexible than others. For instance, if someone were to remix "Halfmoon/Taking Over The Halberd" (http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/snes/Halfmoon.mid) for Kirby Superstar and slowed it way down, I'd probably not like it (enough), even if it's good. The reason why would be this: it's supposed to have that emergency situation / triumph / emotional (on the breaks) - type sound. If that were to be overly deviated, 8 or 9 times out of 10 I would not appreciate it.

Edit: there are certain techniques I know to do if I make a remix much different than its original (I'm natural when it comes to music, so pfft, hardly anything's hard). Edit 2: Besides, regardless of how much I can appreciate something, I'll give it the credit it deserves if it's good.

[Israfel]

I don't follow the community as much as I used to, but back in the day my theory on this was that the remixing community isn't listener-centric. Generally speaking, I figured that most listeners would prefer songs to be done more like a professional "arranged" CDs--like the stuff on the FF7 Reunion album. But from the remixer's perspective, that's not very interesting.

I'm sure there are lots of non-remixers who like the stuff we do just fine, but I always assumed that we'd get a bigger audience if we our "mixes" were basically just sample upgrades of the original. Or maybe not--it's just something I used to wonder about. Like, in music colleges the composition faculty write pieces that are mostly intended to be heard by other composition profs. I wonder if, at least to some degree, mixing is the same way: music by remixers, for remixers.

[DarkeSword]

No, pretty much all the music I do is for chicks.

[Rozovian]

I'm sure there are lots of non-remixers who like the stuff we do just fine, but I always assumed that we'd get a bigger audience if we our "mixes" were basically just sample upgrades of the original.

Some time ago, I read about a fan-made Mega Man album in the swedish Super Play, and there was a mention of ocr there. The author of the MM album review (or whatever the article was) said he wasn't a fan of ocr. I assume it was the non-conservative aspect of remixing he had a problem with.

I know HoboKa brought this up in the new WIP discussion thread: Blind's Blue Vision being very close to source. It seems to be among the more popular remixes I've come across. Are we alienating listeners when we don't just remake it?

[TheSnowStorm]

Maybe it's because I'm not a remixer, but I thought it was the remixer job to make a "new" song out of the original piece, to add his own flavor to the song.

[Undefined]

this "original feel" stuff is a really graaay area. you could argue that anything short of the actual original doesn't have the original feel. if someone arranged a track to have the original feel, then what's the point? why not just listen to the original. and feel is totally subjective anyways, since everybody feels somethin different when listening to music

Personally, I'd much rather hear a brand new take on a song rather than an untouched composition with some soundfonts and a drumtrack

Being too conservative can be boring and being too liberal can fall apart in a lot of cases, but getting into a nice groove between both can result in some top notch remixes, especially when they take the original feel and turn it into something completely new

If we didn't challenge ourselves as remixers like that, not much would be accomplished

Honestly, I think there is a valid discussion to be had here, although by it's nature it must eventually boil down to personal preferences. You both make valid points - in fact I agree with you - yet I can relate to the OPs sentiments. To be perfectly honest, I have always been a particular fan of mixes that stuck relatively closely to the original material, and it takes something special for me to appreciate a track that deviates too far from the source. Why is this? There's a lot of reasons, nostalgia admittedly being the most prominent; however I also consider one of the finest qualities of (good) video game music to be the way it sets/enhances the mood of the game, but also works as an independent and (usually) melodically interesting piece of music in its own right. When you take that connection to the game away however, the music often loses some of its meaning to me. As a general rule, I like it when the music still works within the original context of the game.

Anyway, as I see it, there are two ways of going about creating a remix - either you set out to make a song into something completely new, changing the genre and/or atmosphere completely (this is the freedom of a out-of-context mix, and I think it should be valued and exploited (at the digression of the remixer). However it is not the only way to express oneself creatively and/or pay your respects to the original song/composer (which is what you want, after all, otherwise you would compose original music)) or, in the other case, your goal is simply to 'enhance' the original. This, I believe is what it means to "preserve the feeling of the original." To make it 'grander', more 'emotional', or whatever. It doesn't have to be a simple cover (in fact, I hate covers that do nothing but ad new drums - drums are so overrated anyway) - it can change anything from instrumentation to chords to entire sections - but it will remain an 'extension' or 'enhancement' of the original and the feelings imparted by it. In other words, it pays its respects to the source by adding a new dimension. Many mixes (and remixers) on this site do this - take Zircon's Dirt Devil for example: I do not mean to speak for him, but I remember he commented that "I was envisioning, throughout the song, what the devil's lab area would have been like in an FF6 remake." and his music, in my opinion, reflects this. So, what, does this mean Zircon should just have "listened to the original"? Was his effort wasted, trying to pursue a futile and ultimately uncreative goal?

Obviously not.

Both approaches have their merits, and this is where personal opinion comes into play. Some like originality and a change of pace, others like an arrangement that 'lets out the inherent spirit of the original' and paints it in new way. I, personally, enjoy a little bit of both.

Of course, this also where our differing definitions and personal judgments come into play. Does Dirt Devil keep the feeling of the original? Some people probably think it is too liberal, while others think it is too conservative. I thinks it's just right, but that's just me. As others have said, as long as the remixer himself is pleased with his work, not much else matters.

Perhaps this is what others have been saying all along - that the remixers should be left to decide in what direction he will take his work - but comments like "it is a missed opportunity" (paraphrased) makes it seem like some people think of one of the methods as objectively inferior to other, which is something I simply don't agree with.

[PhiJayy]

but I thought it was the remixer job to make a "new" song out of the original piece, to add his own flavor to the song.

Same here. I personally believe that remixes would more than likely be boring if the artist didn't attempt to expand, create, or heck even improve on the original composition.

Plus, its no fun either. :)

[Xenon Odyssey]

No, pretty much all the music I do is for chicks.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/781/11123ql4.jpg

Obligatory.

It really goes either way. Sometime you want to stay true to the source to capture the excitement the original contained. Other times you want to do whatever the hell you want. Music is not meant to have limits.

[audio fidelity]

Some time ago, I read about a fan-made Mega Man album in the swedish Super Play, and there was a mention of ocr there. The author of the MM album review (or whatever the article was) said he wasn't a fan of ocr. I assume it was the non-conservative aspect of remixing he had a problem with.

I know HoboKa brought this up in the new WIP discussion thread: Blind's Blue Vision being very close to source. It seems to be among the more popular remixes I've come across. Are we alienating listeners when we don't just remake it?

I think its important to keep this community as a game arrangement community and to keep the standards strict as to not let it go the weigh-side of covers.

Maybe there could be a site that caters to high quality covers. But I really enjoy and prefer the the synergy of music that is created here at ocr. I can't think of anything that compares. This is a much more creative and gratifying outlet than any community that just wants to hear the same material played in the same fashion.

[Liontamer]

No, pretty much all the music I do is for chicks.

Man, you must hate your mom then. (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00758/) :lol: I could not resiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiist!

[The wingless]

quick, somebody make me a birthday thread!

[Tensei]

h8ters

Shut up. Go back to myspace/livejournal/wherever it is douchebags like you hang out.

Did you notice how Undefined basically made the same point as you did, except he didn't phrase it in such a retarded way? yea.

[DarkeSword]

Shut up. Go back to myspace/livejournal/wherever it is douchebags like you hang out.
Easy there. No need for name-calling.

[WillRock]

I say its a matter of opinion. Some people don't like OC Remix because they feel that we fuck with the source too much, but on the other hand, if all you do is enhance the original, where is the creativity in the mix in the first place?

Its true that some people prefer the sound of the original source and want to hear a similar style version of the source with better sampling/production etc.

Its like the dark world brawl remix - people got all hyped when they heard it was going to be in brawl, and some disappointed with the end result of that remix because it didn't have the essence of the original, whereas some loved it because of its originality.

You have to remix in a certain way on OC Remix, you can't re-make the original on here, and its stupid to change that, as you can find so many remixes that are remakes anyway.

Basically, if you want a re-mix, look here, if you want a remake, look elsewhere on the internet - you can find anything you are looking for on it these days.

[Salluz]

As long as it's good, I'm cool, even if I don't care to hear it. If crap starts being accepted, I won't look at the remixers; I'll look at the judges.

Don't mind this musician: do whatever you do, remixer.