OCR01135 - Final Fantasy VI 'Battle Theme (Ivory Metal Mix)'

[djpretzel]

What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix.

[debeerguy007]

This is an example of I how much I envy people who really know how to play the piano.

There is superb skill, no doubt. And this mix shows it. I really this guy's usage of dissonance in some places in the piece. Granted, too much dissonance can be a bad thing, but there's really no problems with it here. Very nice work indeed. Hats off to ya, noir. You can play.

[Arai]

I really enjoyed it. I hope I can see(hear?) more work from you in the future.

[Bahamut]

Hmm, that dissonance in the beginning is an interesting point in the mix - I can see why people would be split on this. As some of the judges mentioned, the first half is relatively uninteresting though - a straightforward rendition of the Battle Theme. The original section in the second half is much more interesting. As for how people would react to this piece, I think a lot of people would be left wanting more variation.

[Anonymous]

Another fine addition to the cadre of incredible piano arrangements. I love it.

[neminem]

Very nice work. This is truly a classic example of dissonance sounding really pretty. I am simply in awe at the work done to the prelude at the beginning, for instance. I have a feeling I know what Israfel was probably talking about, though he'd be able to state it much better than me - it sounded like the recording could have used some work (not that I could have done it even this good, myself) but the talent shining through more than makes up for it.

[Altima]

Reading DJPretzel's review I downloaded this mix with doubts that I would enjoy it, but it is surprisingly listenable, the dissonence doesn't detract from my enjoyment of it at all. Overall it just felt like an energetic and well played piano piece, quite similar to how FF6's piano album handled the boss theme I think, taking fast complicated pieces and converting them to piano music via flowing rolling play. The bass notes also keep the energy in the piece, adding a sort of pulse / heartbeat to the whole affair.

Though I don't think it's the kind of thing I can just zone out to while listening on headphones walking around, count me among this piece's (and Noir's) admirers.

[TheBeav]

Wow, that's one remix for the books, I think. Fast-paced, and done in piano ^_^. I don't see how a person can play like that, and do it that fast. Man I love this mix...its so powerful and in-your-face...well to me anyway. Anyway, 10/10.

[ella guro]

I really like this mix - and looking throught the judges decisions thread, I was REALLY suprised that it was that close. To me, the dissonance in the bass note at the beginning is obviously put there intentionally to set a more ominous tone for the prelude that's played on top of it. After all, it is supposed to be the battle theme. And it is resolved shortly thereafter.

However, there do seem to be a few odd notes here and there - especially in the upper register around 1:26, and around 1:38 things get a little shoddy arrangement-wise. But there is some nice expansion on the original here that is subtle and really fits (like the part at 2:27, which is neat). And I really do admire this piece for taking more risks than a lot of other piano mixes I've heard that tend to be just mushy and oversimplified.

So...good work, Noir. Hope to see more from you.

[smh]

I can see why this is a borderline arrangement. The dissonance at the beginning, while not completely horrible, just doesn't sit well with me. There are a vast number of arpeggios that would sound better over the pedal point than the ones that were chosen here.

The first section is well played and has energy, but it doesn't introduce any interesting variation on the theme. The bassline with the octaves is cool at first but gets tiring after a while. I'd like to hear this piece played with some more interesting harmonies or a more dynamic bassline. This interpretation offers neither.

The second half is superior in terms of arrangement. However, several times it strays so far from the original theme that I barely remember what I am listening to. The arranger has shown their talent at creating a fleshed out arrangement on the piano, but now they must work on finding the right balance between the original material and their own variation, rather than displaying the two extremes separately.

I give this a 6/10, but encourage the artist to continue working on their formula, as it holds much potential.

[ella guro]

hm. well, after listening to this a few more times, I would agree that the bassline is tiring and grating, the tempo fluctuates strangely and unnaturally sometimes, and there is little to no harmony in the first section, but none of those reasons are enough for it to not be enjoyable to me. Hell, it's still a hell of a lot better than the mushy 1353 pedal whoring piano pieces I've heard. And I do like how it establishes the theme, goes off on a semi-related tangent, then returns again. whatever...

[G]

I really like battle remixes.
I really like piano remixes.
I really like this remix!

[DJ NapHouse]

I love piano music, but the dynamics really did it for me on this one. Nice job Noir.

[rapa-nui]

You've done two things in this remix that make me wish to comment.

1. You've taken a theme I've heard a billion times and made it enjoyable and new.

2. The structure reveals ingenuity. I like that.

I usually don't comment on remixes, but when someone does an FF6 remix this well I have to.

5/5

[Jonathon Striker]

This caught me of gaurd. For one, I downloaded it because it said Battle Theme and i am into RPG Battle Themes like mad. Then i saw Ivory Metal Mix and thought it had something to do with Rock/Metal. Then I found out it was a piano solo. was that bad? nah, not at all, but actually awesome to hear. I've also been into piano solos and looking for something to replace a not as awesome tetris medley on my personal VG Piano CD in which the title is still in the works. Thank you for an awesome mix and for completing my first CD. love to hear more from you.

[Al Capwn]

Very VERY good..and if u dun think of criticizing it and just listen to it...you'll feel just like me :)

[Dhsu]

I think this qualifies as a case of "too little, too late." Like others have mentioned, the actual arrangement doesn't even come in until around 1:50. Unfortunately, at this point the piece is already more than half over, and the remaining time isn't enough to allow the arrangement to fully develop.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I understand where this controversial "dissonance" is that everyone's talking about. Do you guys mean the pedalpoint at the beginning? I don't see how people can even be arguing about that.

And I do have to commend you on your performance technique...very clean and articulate. Those countless hours in the studio were not spent in vain!

Well played, and congratulations on your first OCR posting!

[Noir]

You people have said some great things... I'm glad there's been such a warm response...

But actually, I'm even happier that there's been such a mixed response though. I wasn't writing this arrangement for everyone, and I'm actually quite tickled that it has caused so much debate and dissagreement... means I must be doing my job ;) I'm not going for pure entertainment, after all.

I am surprised that there was such arguement by the judges, though, over the beginning pedal point. To clarify things: yes, those dissonances were entirely intentional. It's a modal modulation of the prelude arpedgio through an octatonic (diminished) progression, over pedal point. In other words... yeah, it's sorta like playing in two keys at once.

It was hard to do though, not because of the notes or anything... but because the prelude itself needs to be quite legato and smooth, while the bass should be punchy and not muddy... I'm not quite sure I acomplished exactly the best of both worlds, but I had to come to a fairly happy medium without things getting too runny and muddy. This also plays out a lot with the piano I was using (dumbass Yamaha grand... way too bright), and the recording equipment I used.

There have been a lot of comments regarding the second half of the arrangement being better than the first. I find this interesting, since I never really separated the whole into two distinct areas. Fact is, it IS a relitively straight-ahead arrangement, I won't mince words about that. Really, I started off writing this thinking "let's see if I can play this on the piano", not really to make anything very unique out of it, but I started adding things here and there until you have what's here. To get a sense of where I was coming from, I STRONGLY urge people to listen to the version put out by Uematsu's "Black Mages" progmetal band. While that arrangement isn't for everyone, it adds a very new spin (read: HEAVY) on the old theme. I was probably drawing my arrangment just as much, if not more, from that than from the original. While the "piano solo" section is my own melodic contant, the idea isn't... I stole it.

In any case, although I am quite proud of the outcome, I know it has a lot of room for improvement, and isn't my best work. I have a JENOVA piano arrangement going through the que right now that I think is much better. It's not quite as "out there" tonally, and is easier to digest, but don't worry, it still has some bite.

Understand, in the school I'm going to, Oberlin Conservatory, tonality is taboo... most of the stuff that comes out of here (besides being pure crap, IMO) is a lot more dissonant than this. I've never been comfortable with pure atonaity, but my roots do lie in the early 20th century, where music still has a tonal basis, but strays far from it at times.

If anyone is interested in some of my own work. I have a 6 movement piece (working on the 6th movement now) for piano and pre-recorded sound material, called the "Seidonia Suite". I have a live hall recording (a 5 movement version) of it online. Every other movement is piano, alternating with pre-recorded material.

http://www.oberlin.edu/student/ebarker/Seidonia/

Sorry about the long post, and thanks again for all the comments, possitive and negitive!

- Eric

[Xerol Oplan]

It's great, but did it seem like it ended a bit abruptly to anyone else?

[Prokop]

I really like it. While there are complaints about long periods of non-arrangement, there is still quite a bit of original stuff in the first minute and the last minute. Also helping this piece is that the battle theme is not on the original Square made piano collections, thus even a non-arranged version is filling in a needed gap. The variations are original, but also clearly show the portions that they are based on.

Very good job.

[nostalgic gen]

It was hard to do though, not because of the notes or anything... but because the prelude itself needs to be quite legato and smooth, while the bass should be punchy and not muddy...
It's interesting that you mention this because I was going to mention it in my feedback. I found it hard to pick out the bass especially on some of the low notes and actually couldn't tell if they were dissonant or not. The recording is probably a factor, as is my playback. My speakers I'm sure are emphasising (or indeed creating) the problem since they don't have a very good bass response, I've noticed.

There have been a lot of comments regarding the second half of the arrangement being better than the first.
I would concur with this view. I'm not sure quite why though. Perhaps the composition just gets a bit better as you get more into it? The left hand really wasn't doing much at times and felt quite detatched and almost distracting. Playing the same note over and over, at a different octave once in a while, was where it was at its least successful for me. I think this happened more in the first half.

I noticed it complimented, and indeed shaped, the tune much better when it sat an octave higher. This might be a compositional thing; it might be also to do with the fact that, since the left hand is quite far down the keyboard it's panned a good deal to the left, so it sounds detatched in the mix, played to one side. This can't have helped any.

To be honest I was a little underwhelmed by the use of dissonance in this piece, after all the discussion. I suppose it's a bit more unusual for here but I think most of the progressions used are well tried and tested, to be fair. That's not meant as a criticism btw; the important thing is whether or not it works and I think most of it does.

...but my roots do lie in the early 20th century, where music still has a tonal basis, but strays far from it at times.
This is probably where I'm most comfortable as well. Debussy had it sussed. I think modern composers can get caught in a vice and, so desperate not to sound too boring or normal, just end up rearranging it into a sound akin a cat walking up and down the keyboard, which can become just as boring in itself. One tends to become immune to it after a while. It just become background noise. But I digress...

Good work anyway, this was a good arrangement for sure and, although there's room for improvement, it's not half bad as it stands. :)

I'll be sure to check out your other piece some time.

[Noir]

I noticed it complimented, and indeed shaped, the tune much better when it sat an octave higher. This might be a compositional thing; it might be also to do with the fact that, since the left hand is quite far down the keyboard it's panned a good deal to the left, so it sounds detatched in the mix, played to one side. This can't have helped any.

Interesting thoughts. Well, for one thing, during the section that's up an octave, I switch up the bass, which goes into a 3 feel over the normal 4/4, creating a simple polyrythem, and makes it seem a bit off kilter and I think helps to make it a little more driving.

It is interesting that you meantion the panning. That I deffinitely will look into. I think I had them panned around -60 and +60 (out of -100 to +100) left and right... which is usually a no no. I sorta went against my teachings there, usually they say to pan piano around 30-40 from the center, but I thought it helped to thicken the sound. But you're probably right, it should maybe be panned a little more subtly.

In the future, I may try changing the arrangement for the second time through the melody line... basically, the only reason it's there is to get all the transitions in, and it's not very important. A bad reason to simply repeat it... it's sorta unlike me to do this, but I was silly/stupid/uninteresting, and did it anyway.

- Eric

[Seven]

I really, really like this piece. FF6's battle theme ownz.

Anyway, before I listened to it I was expecting some sort of heavy metal mix. Even while I was listening to it, I half expected Noir to break out into metal guitar. Of course, he didn't, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[fisherman]

For a taste of what antiphony I've been listening to today, look up John Corigliano's Concerto for Clarinet and Orchestra. This is Bach by comparison. =P

I'm surprised people had any issues at all with the dissonance. Psh.

What would have made this better for me would have been more articstic liberties and mangling of the original melody after the first 0:45 when you get into your edition of the original.

But y'know what I really want to hear as I listen to it again? This, orchestrated. That bass line is perfect for low strings, the section at 2:10 would be perfect for a brass adaptation... shit, it would be tight.

No matter what, the ideas you put on this thing are kickin' and, to my ear, just scream, "develop me more!"

[DropZero2000]

As my piano teacher always says to me, "It could use a bit more practice..." :D

Actually, it's quite *wince* nice. But there are a slight delays when you shift your hands up/down.

A minor? I woulda done the same thing. I hate the black keys. Not enough sound, and they're so far away. (That's why I'm a Chopin hater. Too bad I love his music after I get it down. Heh.)

Arpeggios at the beginning are nice. But get them down! Gotta play them at 92 bpm with 4 notes per beat.

The "maintaining the themes provoked by the original song" is also kinda iffy there. But that's what a rendition is supposed to do, right?

Overall, like pretzel said, challenging. I wouldn't have taken this one. Very good job!

[Noir]

As my piano teacher always says to me, "It could use a bit more practice..." :D

Actually, it's quite *wince* nice. But there are a slight delays when you shift your hands up/down.

Gonna have to get a bit on the defensive here. There are a few minor speed issues, mostly having to do with rushing of repeated notes. All the major pauses were intentional, of course. Besides that, I don't know what you are reffering to. "shift hands up and down"?

A minor? I woulda done the same thing. I hate the black keys. Not enough sound, and they're so far away. (That's why I'm a Chopin hater. Too bad I love his music after I get it down. Heh.)

That actually has nothing to do with it. For my own material, I HATE A minor. Actually, having black keys in there helps your hands to get their berings. The reason is... *drumroll* the original was in A minor, and since different keys sound differently, I didn't want to change that. I always tend to play arrangements in their original key. I do share you're loathing of Chopin, but more for esthetic reasons. Never attempted to play him, primarilly because I'm really not interested. My composition teacher sometimes compares me to him, and I don't care for that, but then he also compares me to Scriabin... which more than makes up for the previous comment.

Arpeggios at the beginning are nice. But get them down! Gotta play them at 92 bpm with 4 notes per beat.

Why? I played it no more or less the speed than I wanted it. If you talking about matching the original, I've always felt the orignal was too fast, and enevitably, so did Uematsu... check out the Black Mages version, it's about 72bpm (which most people complain about, but I think it helps to make it heavier and crunchier). This piano arrangement is sort of a happy medium (in more ways than one). As for "getting them down", I really don't know what you are reffering to, could you be a little more specific?

The "maintaining the themes provoked by the original song" is also kinda iffy there. But that's what a rendition is supposed to do, right?

Once again, I'm lost as to what you're talking about, what's that quote from? I've never heard it before.

- Eric

[DropZero2000]

Heh, no need to get offended here. I guess I just made some wrong assumptions.

When you shift your hands up and down... let me give you the times. Maybe that'll clear it up:

0:45 It could be somewhat more even... but if it was intentional, great.

0:50 There is a slight delay. Sounds a bit choppy.

Basically, those two transitions. The first time I listened to the song, I noticed these two distinctly. But now that I'm listening to it over and over again, I don't notice them anymore.


Arpeggios: you missed a note at 0:22... Yes, I'm being a bit critical. But that's what I do. :D

A thought: Are you overemphasizing *too much* your first notes? They tend to stick out. A lot. But it's probably just because my ears are too sensitive.

As for the theme of the song. I dont' know. What do you think about when you listen to the original?

Again, didn't mean to piss you off. Just if you play it next time, these might be areas to think about.[/i]

[Noir]

Heh, no need to get offended here. I guess I just made some wrong assumptions.

No problem, actually, I'm very impressed by the subtleties you picked up on here.

When you shift your hands up and down... let me give you the times. Maybe that'll clear it up:

Well, I still don't hear the pause at 0:45, but I bet if I took it into a wave editor, you might be right, there may be a slight hesitation, but I'm still not hearing it.

As for 0:50, that's intentional, I always play that with a slight rallintando and then a slight accel, I think it raises a little tension during the rising 4ths.

Arpeggios: you missed a note at 0:22... Yes, I'm being a bit critical. But that's what I do. :D

WOW, this is where I'm really impressed. I've never noticed that before, but you're right, heh, there is a wrong note there! It's a G when it should be a G#. It's just such an unaccented note, it slipped through the cracks, even listening over and over in the studio I didn't catch it.

A thought: Are you overemphasizing *too much* your first notes? They tend to stick out. A lot. But it's probably just because my ears are too sensitive.

Hey, that's nothing to be ashamed of! "too sensitive" my ass, you're hearing can never be too accute!

Anyway, true, this is a weak point... I'm assuming you're talking about the prelude. I was at a bit of a loss for how to approach this stylistically, because it's so damn hard to record well, I had to find a balance between having it smooth while having it still punch through and be audible as very concise single notes. But the side effect was that I played the first note of every pattern (especially coming down), a bit too hard.

Seriously, this is the kind of critiquing I need... I was just not quite sure what you meant the first time, but thanks.

- Eric

[DropZero2000]

Heh, no problem man.

But I guess I have to be more careful before I actually hit the "submit" button next time. I read the posts I wrote, and man are they confusing. (Hmm... Maybe I have trouble putting my thoughts down into words... correctly... so that other people get what I mean.) I'll try to work on that next time.

Have you any other songs you plan to remix? I think the FF6 Boss Battle Theme is pretty cool. In fact, I'm thinking of doing it. I copied down the score from the SPC like 3 years ago, so I might as well write an arrangement and get it over with. But then again, I have no professional instruction in music theory, and I have no experience in remixing. And I haven't touched my piano in... 8 months? (Yep. I'm a slacker.) The only things I have are my (semi) perfect pitch and about 5 years of instruction.

The FF4 World Map theme (the first one) is pretty cool too. I fiddled with it on the piano some time ago, and I have about 1:30 down. But it's really just copying the theme from the game, with some random arpeggios here and there.

Maybe I'll actually write the scores down... Would you want to take a look at them?

[EvilRyu38]

Not bad... You have some great talent, I wont say its bland, because its not..its more a personal choosing. Pianos are a bitch to play VG music on. But you covered it pretty well.

Its hard to say because of the plethora of Piano FF arrangements...hmmm I was wondering what other series would you consider doing?

[damathacus]

There aren't a lot of remixes of the various FF battle themes, not unsurprisingly, a piano version is not something I'd have expected, but it's a great idea. I like how people take a somewhat repetitive, simple, though catchy theme, and put their own spin on it. But I think this is the most original one I've heard.

Anyway, I really did love this mix. I look forward to hearing more of your stuff in the future. I really can't get enough quality piano mixes.

[zircon]

I have somewhat mixed feelings on this one. While there's no questioning that I enjoy it very much, and that it's pleasantly flashy and fun to listen to, the arrangement is somewhat shallow. I say this because when I attempted to play it by ear on the piano myself, I was able to play it fairly easily on the first attempt; most of the techniques used (ie. various progressions, arpeggios, tremolos) turned out to be quite basic.

However, this is by no means a reason to discard this mix as being amateur. Much like klutz's arrangements, it sounds great, and does an excellent job of presenting a new take on the original theme. As for performance and production values, I honestly have no problems. Being someone who tends to play flashy pieces like this (like the Sonata Pathetique movement 1, Rhapsody in Blue, Hungarian Rhapsody #2) I can say that you're SUPPOSED to do many of the things that some of the earlier posters were complaining about; for instance, tempo changes, delay, emphasizing first notes, etc.

So, overall, in the grand scheme of piano pieces go, this is probably only average in arrangement. But as far as video game arrangements go, it's definitly awesome. All things considered, I highly recommend this mix- 8.5/10.

[Julio Jose]

i hate you noir. you made me go play the game again, and loose 60 hours of my life. Stupid good song... makes me go and play game again. ARG!!!!

[Krendall]

I personally don't like the little bit at the beginning before you go into the actual battle theme. While nice in and of itself, it doesn't give that feeling of sudden crisis that battle music should. Otherwise an awesome piece. Good to hear some pure piano. What would've made me really happy would've been if you would've ended the piece with the Victory Fanfare, but that's mostly cause I really love that piece, no one's remixed it yet, and I don't have clue one how to remix stuff.

[Noir]

Ahhhh... but the Victory fanfare IS there! It's just not at the end, but in the middle (just before the tempo slows down before the "improv solo section"). Surprisingly, NOONE has realized it yet! I keep waiting for someone to go, "Oooh! Is that the victory fanfare in there?" but noone has. Maybe that's a good thing, because it was a total musical joke, and comes across as a really bad punn when people finally realize it's there... I've made many of my gamer friends really groan when they figure it out.

About doing a remix of the victory fanfare, I DO actually have a version I've been working on now for a while. It's a flashy, running 16th note thing in 5/8 time. Although, it's just the original melodic line, and I usually just improvise a B section (the thing is SO short, it would need a lot of extra material to make it a stand alone piece). When I get around to actually writing some solid material for a B section, I may do a release of it.

- Eric

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Noir's best, and that is one hell of a statement. This is in my opinion the single greatest piano piece ever, not just in the game music genre but in any genre. I cannot possibly describe how awesome this piece is. Keep it up, Noir :)

[Kantir]

LOL. It makes me picture the game in a noir film style. Very refreshing.

[Keiseth]

You can certainly hear the quality and effort put into this. It manages to give the battle theme a fresh feel without altering what is generally liked about it, in my opinion.

I like it, very much so!

[polar-]

Nice song with average piano skills. The dynamics are a little confusing at times, and some of the rythm, though it may have been intentionally, sound very off and sounds sloppy at times. Other than that, nice job.

[maestermatt]

I'd would have battled with this one then the ost one.

[Bummerdude]

This piano sounds like it´s from the old times, 1890 or something, I´m not that good at history. Just liked the sound noir got out of it, the battle theme is of course a very hectic track, thanks for that, but that makes it harder to remix it, or is it just me being stupid? It is me right?

Anyhow, very good piano rush, draws out a little more power from this instrument that many of us love.

Nice work black.

[SakakiAzu]

!!!!!!!! Whoa! :? Very nice. But kind of confusing, which makes it good, for a battle theme.

9/10

[aeon89]

I really like it! The begining is obviously a little reference to the Prelude and I even heard from 0:25 to 0:32 something that sounds like FF7 but this part can be found somewhere in almost all FF battle themes. The Fanfare can be heard but it's very subtle and just blends perfectly. A great work you did!

[Lucentas]

I love this piece; it's intense and dynamic. Great work.

[Marmiduke]

Reading the reviews here is a bit of a surprise, but then again not really. I would NEVER have labelled this a piece that is hard to access, hard to interpret and especially would never say it was hard to listen to. Okay, so it has some dissonant notes. It has some fluctuating tempos. It's a piano piece. Versatile, dynamic instruments play versatile dynamic music. Also, the type of play style doesn't equate to a good song, so it's just as well this track and it's artist have the credentials to justify the instrument.
Arrangement wise, I can see where the controversy lies, but I also see it as a bit of a moot point. OverClocked Remix, to me, is that flash moment where the familiar meets the unexpected and unimagined. I agree with the critics that say this mix is too divided between old arrangement and original arrangement, but there are some great moments where the two converge. It does lose tightness because this only occurs in a few isolated incidents, but without outside knowledge, noone would really care. As a standalone song, this is perfect. Freaking awesome playing with some truly special portions of music (2:28 - 2:42 is brilliant stuff.) Piano pieces are generally awesome, but this raises the bar. Recommended.

[AmazinJason]

I enjoyed this tune, the dynamics makes it ideal for an intense battle theme. I'm reminded of the battle theme scene in Advent Children, when Tifa fights the bigger brother.
Besides the ending being a little more choppy than I prefer it was wonderful song, keep up the good work!

[OA]

I didn't really find this one that challenging to listen to, but i'm sure people listen to all kinds of different things. The performance of this is very human, and the live aspect is one of it's strengths. I also love the massive dynamic shifts. Go big or go home, IMO. The original writing was tastefully mixed in with the source, and there were a lot of cool moments to this.

Overall it's really nice stuff; not flawless, but damn good.

[42]

I also love the massive dynamic shifts. Go big or go home, IMO.

Most definitely this ^
The dynamics here are what make this mix fun to listen to; you can literally feel the urgency underlying this. It makes sense why this is called Ivory Metal. :)
This is definitely a piece no one should miss.