OCR01162 - Final Fantasy VII 'Prayer'

[djpretzel]

What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix.

[Kodeir`]

I feel honored to post first or near first depending on when I finish this. Very well done, I like the relaxed charm of this mix - hope to see another from you soon :D

[Bahamut]

Whoa, this sounds nice, but one thing - is that guitar fake?

[UltimaAvatar]

nice...cool remix of the theme. guitar hits a little strong and the beats sound a little poppy, but its still good. wow, that 2:10 is what i like, i was going to say it was missing something but damn, just what the doctor ordered. you know this probably could sound something off of trigun with the right instruments....i guess because i just got done watching the show....but really cool. nice work!

[reelmojo]

First off, the percussion and acoustic guitar parts are incredible. At first I thought the electric guitar was going to kill it for me because it just sounds like there wasn't enough time and practice put into it to really get it down, but it still works. The transition at 2:10 it probably my favorite part too. I expected the drums to come back in again at 3:16 and they didn't... great job on keeping me guessing. Overall I really like it. I just might end up borrowing the bucket idea too. :wink:

[Mostly]

I really like this one... made me smile the instant the buckets came in.

[Iced Earth]

Wow this is a very good remix, it has a very unique sound and the drums sound amazing, the acoustic guitar is played to perfection. This is one of the best remixes of this song I have heard in a long while. Very nice.

It definitely earns a 4 out of 5.

[The Orichalcon]

Whether or not that guitar is real, it sounds awful.

Not my type of piece at all. The percussions sounds like lots of clipping to me.

Nah, I prefer the original.

[Snyderman]

The percussion wasn't bad, but I didn't like the effect. The percussion had a strange way of being stereo, it didn't sound very fitting. It might just be me, but it sounds like certain things are panned hard to the right or left, versus being even throughout.

Overall not a bad remix, but then again, it IS another Final Fantasy 7 remix. I really wish people would stay away from game hot spots (FF6/7, Sonic 3 Ice Cap, Streets of Rage 2, etc...) and remix more obscure games.

[NoWave]

I'm not a fan of this mix I'm afraid. The distorted guitar really spoiled it for me.

[MasterLionheart]

I'm not a fan of this mix I'm afraid. The distorted guitar really spoiled it for me.

I agree the distortion guitar ruined it.

[SabreDeBlade]

In a way, it sounds almost like Aerieth's theme gone Crystal Chronicals! It also seems to have some "Blilnk 182" flavor to it with the heavy bass and and guitars. It's very different and a nice change of pace! :D

[ToeJam]

I somehow likened it to the song 'Layla'. The original song conveys so much emotion, and like 'Layla' (the original one), the guitar (non-accoustic) gave it a lot of feeling. Good Job!

[Kodeir`]

anyways to be alittle more clear as to why I liked it. My entire playlist doesn't have a song this layed back...or have a song near close to sounding like it. Which makes it enjoyable, unique, and overall a good remix by my book. Also the guitar seems to have the same quality as the ProjectX guitar - not the same distortion but the same measure in quality. So quit bitching :P Also comeparable with the pitch given in the RedXIII remix by AmIEvil - which was better delived but its not like the guitar in this sucks because a few things might be better

[Sockatume]

It's really, really good in most areas, but that guitar carrying the melody just totally murders it IMO. :(

[Warren]

Whether or not that guitar is real, it sounds awful.

Not my type of piece at all. The percussions sounds like lots of clipping to me.

Nah, I prefer the original.

I agree. :|

[xs0luti0n9x]

as others said, the distortion kinda ruined it.. it was kinda dirty-sounding really.. and it took away from the original feeling of the song

edit: however, the acoustic background is GREAT :)

[GregHead]

The guitar is just a bit too screechy and loud. this remix is a lot more lively though, a major plus.

[Vestiges Vargos]

You people commenting on the distortion have obviously never played using a distortion pad, it is so hard to get right, this remix is great, i like the whole spanish feel to it, very layed back and mellow.

great job.

[Bahamut]

Overall not a bad remix, but then again, it IS another Final Fantasy 7 remix. I really wish people would stay away from game hot spots (FF6/7, Sonic 3 Ice Cap, Streets of Rage 2, etc...) and remix more obscure games.

You can't even compare FF7 to FF6 - it's just not on that level.

And as for the song, yes, that guitar is my main complaint about this song - otherwise it's pretty good.

[Ovid]

this remix is awesome!!!

does anyone know those chords that the acoustic guitar is playing?

[habnem]

To answer questions I've seen thus far:

Yes, the lead guitar is real. In case you're that curious, it's a Fender Standard Fat Strat played through a Digitech RP300 effects pedal.

While I'm listing things that are real, so are the acoustic guitar and the 5-gallon mop buckets (the left one played by hand and the right one with drumsticks). The reason the buckets are panned the way they are is because if they weren't hard to the sides, i found they got confusing. The rhythms they use are different enough to sound jumbled if they share any parts of the stereo field.

Incidentally, nothing in this mix is "sequenced" at all, but played live on instruments and/or synthesizer to hard drive. I still can't figure out MIDI to save my life.

Finally, the chords are really easy. I've never compared it to the original to see how faithful they are. D-Am-D-Am-D-Am-Bb-Gm-D for the first part; Bm-A-G-D-F#m-G-F#m-G for the second part, and D-G-F#m-G-A-G-D for the coda.

Oh--and all you who are sick of FF songs, sorry. This is my first OC mix, and my favorite VG song (and one I felt has been underrepresented thus far), so they kinda went together that way. At least I didn't do "Terra," right? If I get around to it, my next mix will be a swing version of Gruntilda's Theme from Banjo-Kazooie, if that makes you feel any better.

[Sockatume]

I'd honestly be more pleased if your next mix was this, with a different lead guitar. Everything else in it is absolutely superb, but that guitar just doesn't sit right to me... ditch the effects, maybe, and just let rip on the guitar as you get towards the end.

[Julio Jose]

not a bad remix, but then again, it IS another Final Fantasy 7 remix. I really wish people would stay away from game hot spots (FF6/7, Sonic 3 Ice Cap, Streets of Rage 2, etc...) and remix more obscure games.

I couldnt agree with you anymore. And btw, fine i am writting a review note. Its actually a decent song, guitar sample needs a change, but otherwise, dammit people, try remixing something else.

[tgfoo]

Eh, i think this is decent. Like most of you, i'm not too fond of the guitar....i'd say my biggest complaint about it isn't the distortion (though i dont' particularly like it that much) it's that the notes seem cut off and too short....I'd say that the best thing about this mix is the acoustic accompanyment. Overall, i just wasn't feelin this though.

Edit: Oops...i can't type...

[Theta Kogun]

I actually liked it, for the most part. Like most everyone has said to far, the distortion on the electric guitar was a little overpowering. Had it been toned down a bit, or taken out all together, it probably would have been a much better mix. You could also have probably used acoustic for that part too, only at a bit higher volume, but that probably would have changed the feel of the song as a whole considerably. I give it 4.5/7 Chrono Trigger characters.
http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v166/ThetaKogun/4p5.gif

[teoryn]

Well, even if FF is always remixed, it's still good music. I just make sure never to listen to often to any music or it gets old. I thought this song was really well done. I'm usually not a fan of guitar, but I liked this piece. I think the guitar was done fine for this piece, it really seperates the piece from the original.

[GrayLightning]

Im sorry, im stubborn, and i cant write a review on this. I have seen far to many ff remixes. People, you need to try something different. FINAL FANTASY HAS BEEN DONE... ABOUT 1000 TIMES, JUST LIKE SO MANY ZELDA SONGS.

Instead of complaining about how there's so many Final Fantasy mixes, why don't some of you review others? A lot of people complain we mixers mix too many Sonic or Chrono Trigger, yet when we do mixes for lesser known games no one reviews it. There's so many mixes that aren't Sonic, Zelda, CT or FF that are not getting any reviews. If you want more variety, show your support for other types of mixes instead of whining.

[fauconnuit]

First, I just wanted to point out that I really like the feel of this one. The only problem I have with it is the lead guitar. Like Smackahoe Tribe
said, the notes are very disconnected from each other and it disjoints the whole mix. If you added some legato to the lead and maybe toned down the distortion a little (just to get rid of some of that residual fuzz), it would do wonders for the whole bit.

As to toning down the distortion, I'm not sure how you can do that on the pedal, but if you use the neck pickup and turn down the tone on the guitar, that could help stabalize the sound (not sure though, since I use a telecaster.)

[The Orichalcon]

I just don't really like the plucky guitar. That's all.

I've had another listen, concentrating on the melody in the background. It's pretty good now that I've listened again.

The guitar sounds alright, it's just the pluckiness that ruined it for me. The notes in this were originally strings and were meant to be smooth together. I can't stand things that play, then stop, then play, then stop, then play, then stop, instead of constantly playing.

But listening to the percussion closely, it is pretty good. The ahh choir could have been a little better.

Personally I don't really know how this one made it onto the site. It doesn't seem up to par with the other remixes, and I've seen some better stuff that didn't make it. It's good, but there's hardly any variation at all.

[risingson77]

No, thanks.

The percussion is way too busy, the acoustic guitar is out of tune, and the electric has a staccato delivery that just grates on me. I nixed it after about 40 seconds.

[hhallahh]

Hm, I liked this track for whatever reason. Guitar didn't annoy me too much. Loved when the choir kicked in at around 2.45... Idunno. Aeris' Theme is such a pretty song.

[renrutal]

I liked it, I played it with my headphones on and the percussion had a funny effect. Usually near some very loud percussions you think your heart is beating in the same rhythm. This one was almost doing an ear massage, t'was sorta cool.

Very nice 2:10 BTW.

[Debotron-6K]

I agree with the multitude of comments about the dry lead. It needs some SUSTAIN.. but it's not just that.. 'screechy' is definitely an accurate description. IMO, it's not very good playing. example: 1:15. What the heck was that? Don't know if this was intentional, but it sounds like a 'wrong' note to me. Overall, this electric guitar is a bit lacking in the soul department.

This mix isn't terrible; it does some creative things with the somewhat-celtic vibe and the.. buckets, but personally I think I'd prefer a dope sampled beat to those, as well as some actual rearrangement.

Bottom line - creative vision; lackluster execution. This mix lacks depth.

[Vex]

I like this remix. not a whole bunch, but its a good solid remix that relly tries to get some emotions going. It is very appropiately titled, and the guitar really has soul. Good job, I'd like to hear more from this guy.

and really Debotron? FFVII's soundtracks decent at best (although J-E-N-O-V-A is damn good). I really liked FF X's soundtrack (V and VIII's was pretty good too, but X is my favorite).

[habnem]

Thanks, Debotron, for making the post I was going to. I'd also like to point out that, in my estimation, "Aerith's Theme" is one of the more famous video game songs out there, and unless I've missed one in the last couple of months, this is only the second remix on OCR. Debate the wisdom of covering FF games until doomsday; you can still hardly say that this particular song has been overdone.

[djpretzel]

Maybe I listen to a lot more guitar-based music than others(?), but it seems to me the tone here is not at all unheard of and similar processing/articulation shows up in a good deal of classic rock... it's one thing to say you feel a different tone would have been more appropriate, but some of the comments here have tended towards implying that this just isn't how a guitar should ever sound, and, well... it would seem to me from my particular background and tastes that there are plenty of critically acclaimed, professional examples to the contrary.

I've also heard a boatload of guitar samples, ranging from convincing to Prot's Uematsu patch, and for this to have been synthetic would have made it one of the most if not the most impressive emulations of an electric, up there with Jan Hammer's stuff.

But oh well.

[ella guro]

There is really nothing wrong with this guitar at all - I wonder how many of you listen to rock music often. This type of stuff is done all the time. The big problem I have with this mix is the mixing - the percussion is always a little off (and sounds muddy), the acoustic is a little flat, the choir patches are too loud, and the piano at the beginning is too tinny. As far as arrangement goes, it's pretty close to the original - which is ok for this type of mix, and the lead guitar playing is good.

It's not overwhelming and has some issues, but it's pretty good overall.

[Debotron-6K]

OK..

After listening to this some more, I have to admit that I was a little too harsh on it in my review.. because it has grown on me quite a bit. My problem with the lead, like others have noted, was the brief, staccato nature of the playing. It sounds choppy to me.. make those notes flow. I have played guitar for a while now, and listen to plenty of guitar-based music, but just like anything musical, a person's taste in guitar tone is completely subjective.

To clarify what I meant when I said that I felt the mix lacks depth - I think it would have been great if Menbah had multitracked a few more guitars, instead of just having one acoustic and one electric. The lead emulates the melody of Aerith's theme exactly- which isn't bad, but I think it would have sounded better to have another electric or two playing some solos to spice it up a little. and put some BASS in there 8) Just little things I noticed which I felt would have gave this one some extra punch.

But overall, a good first submission from MENBAH!

[Protricity]

I don't mean to start a fuss and upset everyone but I'm not very good at sugarcoating things, and I believe in frankness and truth over ambiguous half truths in the name of peace and kindness.

This is the worst song I've heard in a while now, and I'll give my reasons.

1. Percussion is completely off sync throughout the entire mix.
2. Guitar is horribly amateur, and I mean that in the best way. This is the kinda guitar that is played by someone who never took lessons and is kinda just messing around.
3. This isn't an arrangement. This is the original played poorly. Very poorly.

This song makes me wonder why on earth it didn't go to the judge panel.

I am aware that dave isn't entirely familiar with the original and might have displayed some bias due to this, but aside from the lack of arrangement ability, I am chiefly addressing the completely amateur sound quality and skill involved in making this song.

I doubt the possibility that I could have not pissed anyone off by saying all this, for that I'm sorry, but everything I said is what I truly believe after 4 listens of this song. I'm not driving blind here.

[djpretzel]

This is the worst song I've heard in a while now, and I'll give my reasons.

1. Percussion is completely off sync throughout the entire mix.
2. Guitar is horribly amateur, and I mean that in the best way. This is the kinda guitar that is played by someone who never took lessons and is kinda just messing around.
3. This isn't an arrangement. This is the original played poorly. Very poorly.

This song makes me wonder why on earth it didn't go to the judge panel.


1. Not everything has to be quantized. In this case, it certainly would NOT have been appropriate. I know you make YOUR music that way, and it works for YOU, but you have this age-old habit of prescribing what you like and what works for you for everyone else.
2. Disagree. Listen to a lot of guitar-based music.
3. It's an arrangement in the sense of the aspects I clearly took the time to enumerate in the write-up.

4. As to whether it should have gone to the panel - there are always going to be instances where you guys approve things I might not have, and vice versa. I'm glad this mix is on the site. It's different. There has to be room in both our realms of evaluation, which take everything else into account, that still allows for that.

And I listened to the original side by side, like I said.

[Dhsu]

You know, when the last post in the ReViews forum is by djpretzel, that's supposed to mean there's a new ReMix up.

Curse you, djp, for getting my hopes up. :P

[Nase]

me likes it! i love the percussion combined with the classic acoustic guitar strumming. i can understand that not everyone likes the distorted guitar in that context, but i find it quite enjoyable.

prot: maybe youll like the tune a little more if you listen to it as a whole...i could also pick certain things out of it, like the percussion with its loose rhythm, and could say meh, technically imperfect, but if you listen to the song as a whole, it just feels right. same with the distorted guitar i guess. sure, its not what a studio guitar pro would sound like. but to me, this all doesnt matter too much. i'm glad i havent got your judge's ears and brain, so that i can still enjoy what's to be enjoyed here.

[Steele]

Hmm...

Well, I have to disagree with everyone saying that it doesn't match the original, or that some parts are out of synch: Aside from the extended begining, and brief apperances (i kant spel) of the Highwind theme for a second (1:20 and 1:55), it matches the orignal note for note (perhaps give or take some notes being extended, while others are shortened). Well, based on just listening to it, anyway. The precussion seems to stop, slow down, etc at appropriate places, when mind you, the orignal had NONE at all.

Now the Electric guitar isn't BAD.. however, it's too prominant, and it seems as though there's a recording quality issue, which, taken together, can explain why some people think it's a bad thing. There's other instuments being played, obviously, but the guitar overpowers them a biiit too much.

That said, some of the pieces better moments are when the E-guitar slows down or becomes quiet.

And is it my imagination, or does it seem like the E-guitar player has a better idea as to what he/she is doing in the second half? I dunno, maybe it's just the chorus, but the guitar just sounds better.

*shrugs*

oh yeah, hi, i'm kinda new here =P

[habnem]

Thanks, Steele, for being the first to notice (or at least mention) the Main/Highwind theme cameos. I was kinda proud of that touch.

This piece was meant to have sort of a drum-circle vibe to it--almost like a Red XIII treatment of the Aerith Theme, with a gently-weeping guitar carrying the melody. The imperfections that have been picked apart numerous times thus far were left in intentionally, and I'm really not sure why they're such a source of consternation. One person (yours truly) performed and recorded everything here, but great care was taken to make it sound as much as possible like something played by a bunch of people.

As DJP noted, had this take on the song sounded like it was performed by a computer, it would have been something totally different, and considering the emotional quality of the song, in my estimation that something would have been a good deal worse.

Finally, I thought it might be nice to have a look at Webster's definition of the word "arrange," which is the source of another complaint I keep reading which baffles me. here we go, from m-w.com:

"3 a : to adapt (a musical composition) by scoring for voices or instruments other than those for which orig. written b : ORCHESTRATE"

"Prayer" may not be a radical reworking of Aerith's Theme, but an arrangement it most certainly is.

[Kaleb.G]

I have a problem with the statement about how the guitar isn't bad sounding because it's "been done before in a lot of guitar-based music". Are you suggesting that we're not supposed to describe a certain technique or type of sound as low-quality if it's been utilized in a given quantity of music? "Popular" doesn't always equal "good" (and IMO, this is true most of the time). I could give examples, but I think the point is straight-forward enough. I thought the guitar playing didn't flow well, and contrasted jarringly against the calm consistant sounds of the other instruments; as if the distorted guitar wasn't enough of a contrast as it was. I had no problem with this remix, and it was pretty good for being done with live instruments. However the arrangement was too simple, and this mix can't fly on originality due to the bucket drums alone. Sure, the arrangement may have changed the tempo, but that has been done many, many times before on this site.

No offence to Menbah, as it seems he just got in the middle of something bigger.

[pixlz]

thought this was in general amazing. my only crits.

everything else was sooooo high quality, that choir just fell flat and gave little meaning to anything, should've just removed it, if it was going to be so "eh" compared to the other instruments.

otherwise, spoon remix!

[Krelian]

I like it. This song totally deserves to be on the site. First off, this is only one of 2 Aeris songs here...and the drums are kick ass. The guitar seems to be a lot more tolerable during the 2nd half of the song, why that is I don't know...maybe because there are more sounds going on with "ahh" and the acoustic guitar.

Thumbs up. Now let's hear a 2nd song from ya.

[Ska]

I thought the guitar sounded extremley nice. And by the way it is a freal guitar! Are you people deaf? The guitar was using a distortion pedal. Anyways if you want the Tabs for it i got them. It took me a long time to get them but if you want them either email me at oprtnska@netscape.net or IM on AIM at Undercover Lint.

[the frantic melon]

this was probably my favorite piece in the ost, so it's nice to find a version of it that isn't a midi. no critisism to the dj here, but are we ever going to get an orchestral version of this song?

[The Link Freak]

As a four-year guitar player...

AWESOME SHIT.

[XenoWang]

As a 4-year guitarist, I'm going to have to totally rip on the lead playing. I thought it was pretty atrocious to be honest. Stacatto is one thing but this just sounds like the player has no control over his instrument whatsoever. There is a complete absence of vibrato, sounds like the guy's never heard of the term "alternate picking", and feeling is totally lacking here.

Believe me, 95% of the music I listen to is heavily guitar oriented and the playing (not to mention the tone/mixing) is just pretty bad and something you'd expect from somebody who's been playing for perhaps 4 months...

[habnem]

As a matter of fact, the guitarist had been playing for ten years when he recorded this song. Perhaps he meant the playing to sound simplistic?

[savikida]

personaly i found this remix very good, mainly because it brought back memories (very nice ones) from my loved FFVII, i think that remixes wether (im not sure of the spelling of this) ``hard worked or simple´´ can be good or bad, it all depends on what they make you feel. (just personal opinnion ^^ anywayz congrats menhab!

[YuffieKisaragi]

i definitely like the upbeat feeling that this has... it's a nice change from the slightly melancholy feeling that the Aeris theme usually has.

[Bummerdude]

Whether or not that guitar is real, it sounds awful.

Not my type of piece at all. The percussions sounds like lots of clipping to me.

Nah, I prefer the original.
Who doesn´t, the original is a beautiful master piece.

But that´s not the point. I got very excited when I heard it start, an acoustic remix! Good, very good, can´t get enuff about them, can we?
I got a little disappointed when the electric guitar abruptly came into the scene, but after a while, I liked it, I really did. The drums are awesome, just as pretzeldude said, so crdit for him for pointin that out. And the choir that began in the back at 2:09, making this mix beautiful too, just like the original. Great mix, great arrangement, and a great desicion from MENBAH! for making this special version of our beloved Aeris. Kudos dude.

[Slasher]

This is one hell of a song it sounds Almost perfect i think the lead gituar is abit to Heavy for the background and the style of song and i think it would sound nice in acoustic gituar but never the less i give it 8.5/10

[evktalo]

Charming stuff. Love the buckets. The guitar is played choppily as hell, but it really makes me smile. It's so exposed, over-the-top loud and screechy and choppy it's good. That may or may not be what the musician was going for, but it works for me!

--Eino

[Dhsu]

So yeah, just listened to this on my foray through Eastern...err, I mean OCR1001-1250. The guitar tone is not something I've never heard, but what it is is really, really out of place over a background consisting of piano, acoustic guitar, bucket drums, and soft choir ahhs. Hearing it in this context, along with the choppiness, slight mistakes, and intonation issues, makes it sound more amateur (and frankly, obnoxious) than it perhaps would in a different situation. Honestly this is the kind of arrangement that would elicit outright laughter at a DoD listening party.

Oh well, they can't all be winners.

[lifelistling]

The original is really beautiful, but this remix is pretty cool. I love the electric guitar here but the drumming just sounds a bit off to me...

[OA]

I was feeling it until the lead guitar came in. :-(

Sorry dude, but i think Dhsu's comments are pretty spot on.

[docnano]

Unlike some others, I actually liked this remix! It's a little rough around the edges, perhaps the lead guitar is slightly too loud, but the style is unique (I can't say I've heard anything like it before!) and it's a decidedly new take on one of my favorite themes. I think the drums add a lot of character.