Modern Pop Music

[Beatdrop]

I think I'm not alone in feeling that modern popular music is destroying society. It's really unfortunate, but today's MTV Generation is tomorrow's U.S. Government, so... yeah, it's problematic.

HOWEVER! I'm not sure how much attention people here pay to what's on the radio or on MTV or what not, but shockingly enough, it's not all bad. Some songs I've been hearing in the past six months or so in particular are definitely impressing me with their writing and production. Obviously, there's still far more garbage than gold, though, so I wanted to just ignite a little conversation about what peoples' takes are in general on pop music as it stands today, as well as give a few shining examples of the type of stuff I think could still save the music industry and stop completely melting the brains of the youth.

(EDIT: For the first 4 out of 5 videos, you're going to need to follow the YouTube link to watch it ON YouTube, because Universal Music Group fuckin' eats it.)

Example #1:

Kevin Rudolf feat. Lil Wayne - Let It Rock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsrkFNodBGQ
Just heard this on the radio for the first time yesterday, and it took me by surprise for two reasons: it doesn't preach at length about "bitches," and it successfully combines numerous different genres into one. The end result is pretty kickass, not gonna lie. It's very anthemic, very powerful, and very fresh.

Example #2:

Rihanna - Disturbia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6zdhHLvT7k
Rihanna continues to impress me. With a lot of her biggest hits, she definitely tends to break some conventions with Pop/R&B. Stuff like this and "Don't Stop The Music" very nearly entirely stepping over the border into Dance music, which is interesting when you consider how much airplay it's getting. I still remember the first time I heard "Shut Up & Drive" on the radio. I was like "WTF? Guitar in a track by Rihanna? Rock influences? Huh-wha?!" Anyway, yeah, I find myself uncontrollably enjoying a lot of Rihanna's work.

Example #3:

Flobots - Handlebars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuK2A1ZqoWs
When I first saw this on MTV, I was about to chalk it off as garbage based on the first few seconds of the song and the video, but I'm sincerely glad I didn't. This song's lyrics and message are really damn powerful, especially when combined with the video. And as for production... it has a friggin' trumpet solo. Still, it saddened me when I had to explain to someone what this song's about. Hopefully if more stuff like this continues to top the charts, I won't need to explain things that seem plainly obvious to people anymore.

Example #4:

Chris Brown - Forever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2IExa2A198
I worked painstakingly to figure out what this song was after I first heard it near the vending machines at work. When I found out it was courtesy of the same guy that made that god awful "Run It" song, I did a double-take. This song is astoundingly musical and well-composed for Pop music. Tons of melodies and harmonies fill the stereo field from start to finish, and although the use of auto-tune vocals is getting a little ri-goddamn-diculous lately, this song does it pretty tastefully, and it fits really well. I must have listened to this 6 or 7 times in a row after I first identified it. I'm ALMOST ashamed, but... it's a really good song. But it's comforting to see an artist actually GROWING and making better stuff instead of ceaselessly duplicating the same shit that made him famous.

Example #5:

Maroon 5 feat. Rihanna - If I Never See Your Face Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK-H76JeFpA
It couldn't be helped. Rihanna made this list twice. But since this is mainly a song by Maroon 5, I don't feel terribly guilty about it. This song... FUCKING ROCKS. Big time. Maroon 5 gives me hope for Rock music. They're not the only ones, but they're an outstanding example.

Anyway, that's all for now. Feel free to contribute your thoughts about Pop music as it stands today, and also any examples of stuff you've heard on the radio or seen on TV that caught your ear or eye, respectively.

EDIT: ARGH FUCKIN' EMBEDDING

[LuketheXjesse]

No matter how impressive a popular song is, a mainstream idiot won't look at it in a smart way ^~^ Also it's not really just popular music that's destroying society, it's really the fact that everything's being dumbed down. School, Television programs, music, and maybe more I can't think of.

Anyhoo you pretty much spoke my thoughts on mainstream music. Good stuff exists...somewhere. Mainstream (let's just say stupid from here on out) people like pop/rap because it's in fashion. Stupid people listen to the music they listen to because it's fashionable. It's all a fashion sense to them, almost like clothing. We here at OCR listen to all the "weird" stuff we do because we actually have our own minds; we don't do things because they're popular because we have our own real opinions. Why do you think I go on forums? Because I can talk to many people who actually do think for themselves.

Now of course some people DO think for themselves and actually like this stuff. My sister likes Pop music and 80's music (mom's influence >_>) but hates hardcore rap like Li'l Wayne and whatnot. That's just what she likes and at that point I can respect that. It's certainly not what I'm into but at least she has her own opinion.

Anyway that's all I have to say.

[Fishy]

Excellent thread idea, and I can only echo the Flobots song a million times. Epic song. I've got a few random ones.

John Legend - Green Light click the youtube links or they wont work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hd-uklv-5g
I first saw John Legend playing on Jools Holland, and it was just solo piano and vocals. Its always refreshing to see someone playing for themselves in pop. This song is a fairly good example of how smooth and groovy pop can be. It would've been so easy for this song to be about some thing else. How many songs with this kind of sound have you heard with lyrics like these: "you'll be my only true lover no competition no other"? Legend is a step in the right direction.

Usher - Caught Up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNGLvbiEFEg
Hot damn, this is a perfect example of good pop music imo. Those vocal harmonies are incredible, and this to those phat bass bits. There's even a brass section. I know its not a new song, but this is incredibly musical, the guy is obviously a great singer and mover. This is a direction I like. The production is a bit bland but the actual song is what I like to see in pop.

2pac - Changes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2sBOcxfupI
Okay this is definately not new popular music by any means, but this is just great stuff. Just listen to that piano. Musical and with an awesome message. (There's a lovely irony in the line "we ain't ready to see a black president" :D)

[Meteo Xavier]

Stupid people listen to the music they listen to because it's fashionable. It's all a fashion sense to them, almost like clothing.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to tear this quote apart.

What the hell makes someone stupid for their choice of preference? Or, alternate phrasing, what the hell makes someone's preference of music stupid? I don't claim to be the most omniscient man around, but I think if there were a set of guidelines that clearly established who was an idiot (or poser or any other derogatory term you guys come up with to pretentiously differentiate yourselves from people who like music you don't) based upon certain names, genres, dates and what the fuck ever, I would've heard about it by now.

Such guidelines do not exist and I'm up to my ass sick of hearing it. Not everyone is a diehard music fan. A lot of people only listen to whatever's on the radio because thats all they really have an enticement to do. If they like it with some extra cash lying aorund, they go out and buy it and enjoy it some more until they have their fill. They are not required to take it any further if there is no enticement to do so. They paid for their music and they can use as a fucking fashion statement, if they want to. Who are you to tell them otherwise?

I'm going off here because the whole subject is insane and not many are saying much about it (that I know of). People have been bitching about Modern Pop and the mainstream casual listeners forever. These arguments, infantile as they are, are probably over 100 years old. People were saying this modern music is shit and destroying America since JAZZ, always favoring
the older days since 20-30 years ago - a "Golden Age" of music that didn't actually exist because the same fucking criticisms existed back then.

Now I'm going to dive right off the *** **** deep end and say that if Music is just fashion for those stupid people, then Music is just culture for you guys. Its just a channel for your alternatives to the disgusting and awful and deceitful and pure fucking evil Popular Cultures. Its propaganda for your politics and atheism. Its an experiment to see how far "art" can go on little merit, training or any real credibility. Its an exercise to see how much you can spend on some bitch because she's "not Britney Spears". Its a chance for every miserable outcast 20 miles around to gather, smoke pot, and crawl one-by-one up the collective ass and orgasm over and over again about how much fun it is to be in this awful secret little club that shits in the face of mainstream culture and waves its middle finger with a rebel yell screaming MORE! MORE! MORE!

So when it is EVER about the fucking music?

Hell, until I started coming to Ocremix, I had no idea people my age ever thought about chord structures, or melodies, or production values. People who actually cared about the music for the sake of the music itself, not what genre it is or who listens to it.

Music is just organized noise. Its not life, its not love, its not fashion, its not culture, its not anything but a series of sonic vibrations that people have overgratified into a religion onto itself. It is NOTHING by itself. It's just music. It's a tool that you bought and are free to use however you want to use it. Same for everyone else too.

Bottom Line: If you cannot respect a culture, you do not deserve one of your own. End.

(I'm going to regret submitting this, but whatever. Post).

[Mustin]

Pretty good rebuttle. Said a lot of what I was going to.

I'm looking forward to replying to this. I'm in a session right now, so when I'm done recording this rap song, I'll jump in this ;)

[cobaltstarfire]

Yeah Meteo Xavier gets a giant QFT from me, I could not have put it so eloquently (and probably not quite as antagonistically either :P)

People have been saying the developing music of the time is going to destroy society for ages.

I don't really like much American pop, most of what has been posted in this thread doesn't appeal to me at all, but I'm not going to say it's horrible horrible stuff, I might complain about the themes in some of it. I'll complain about those themes regardless of the genre or time period that music was produced in.

I honestly don't pick my music on Genre though, I'll give everything a listen at least halfway through to see if I like it or not.

[The Vagrance]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to tear this quote apart.

What the hell makes someone stupid for their choice of preference? Or, alternate phrasing, what the hell makes someone's preference of music stupid? I don't claim to be the most omniscient man around, but I think if there were a set of guidelines that clearly established who was an idiot (or poser or any other derogatory term you guys come up with to pretentiously differentiate yourselves from people who like music you don't) based upon certain names, genres, dates and what the fuck ever, I would've heard about it by now.

While I do agree that someone cannot be called stupid solely on the choice of the music they listen to, they are differences between good music and bad music and there are different ways to judge the quality of music. Chord structure, originality, arrangement, etc. are al up for analysis. Hell, if no one song is better than the other then every submission to OCR should be accepted. Guidelines do exist.

Such guidelines do not exist and I'm up to my ass sick of hearing it. Not everyone is a diehard music fan. A lot of people only listen to whatever's on the radio because thats all they really have an enticement to do. If they like it with some extra cash lying aorund, they go out and buy it and enjoy it some more until they have their fill. They are not required to take it any further if there is no enticement to do so. They paid for their music and they can use as a fucking fashion statement, if they want to. Who are you to tell them otherwise?

I disagree with the notion that there are not guidelines to judge music upon, however, I do agree with the statement that not everyone wants to hear "intelligent" music. Some people subscribe to the idea of "If I like it, then I'll buy it" and thats perfectly fine.

I'm going off here because the whole subject is insane and not many are saying much about it (that I know of). People have been bitching about Modern Pop and the mainstream casual listeners forever. These arguments, infantile as they are, are probably over 100 years old. People were saying this modern music is shit and destroying America since JAZZ, always favoring
the older days since 20-30 years ago - a "Golden Age" of music that didn't actually exist because the same fucking criticisms existed back then.

I also agree with this statement. There are people out there that no matter what argument is presented to them, they will refuse to listen and talk about the "good ol' days". That said, if someone is too close-minded to realize that quality music is still being made nowadays that is no less groundbreaking than 20-30 years ago, then thats there problem.

Now I'm going to dive right off the *** **** deep end and say that if Music is just fashion for those stupid people, then Music is just culture for you guys. Its just a channel for your alternatives to the disgusting and awful and deceitful and pure fucking evil Popular Cultures. Its propaganda for your politics and atheism. Its an experiment to see how far "art" can go on little merit, training or any real credibility. Its an exercise to see how much you can spend on some bitch because she's "not Britney Spears". Its a chance for every miserable outcast 20 miles around to gather, smoke pot, and crawl one-by-one up the collective ass and orgasm over and over again about how much fun it is to be in this awful secret little club that shits in the face of mainstream culture and waves its middle finger with a rebel yell screaming MORE! MORE! MORE!

Just because something is one thing to someone doesn't mean that its the same thing for someone else. Do you love your grandmother? Grandfather? Parents? Someone? I'm sure there's someone that you love and care deeply for, and thats nice. Even if I met you in person and we became best friends, I'm sure that said loved one will never mean more to me than to you, and thats perfectly fine. Saying that music is "just culture" is like saying that any artform is "just culture"; that love and pain are "just neural impulses", that video games are "just toys." When it comes to art and feeling, a lot more is subjective. Liking certain types of music isn't about the exclusivity of it, its about enjoying the music. Simple enough.

Hell, until I started coming to Ocremix, I had no idea people my age ever thought about chord structures, or melodies, or production values. People who actually cared about the music for the sake of the music itself, not what genre it is or who listens to it.

You must come from a small town then, or maybe I'm just used to the musical atmosphere of Nashville because quite a few people I know that are my age care about chord structures and production values. Thats how bands are formed.

Music is just organized noise. Its not life, its not love, its not fashion, its not culture, its not anything but a series of sonic vibrations that people have overgratified into a religion onto itself. It is NOTHING by itself. It's just music. It's a tool that you bought and are free to use however you want to use it. Same for everyone else too.

Music is whatever one wants it to be, otherwise everything is bleak and miserable. Cooking doesn't matter because it will be digested. Paintings don't matter because they are slabs with random assortments of colour on them. Dancing is just flailing around in a timely matter. If you can't stop to reallze the beauty of different arts, then at least respect those who do.

(I'm going to regret submitting this, but whatever. Post).

Thats usually a sign that you shouldn't submit it.

[The Vagrance]

No matter how impressive a popular song is, a mainstream idiot won't look at it in a smart way ^~^ Also it's not really just popular music that's destroying society, it's really the fact that everything's being dumbed down. School, Television programs, music, and maybe more I can't think of.

Dumbing things down is a natural process of various societal objects and functions. The more dumbed down it is, the easier it is to consumed in a half-assed manner. Artsy films scream to be analyzed, beautiful music requires multiple listens to appreciate all of the subtlety, White Chicks points out that white people sometimes act differently than black people.

Anyhoo you pretty much spoke my thoughts on mainstream music. Good stuff exists...somewhere. Mainstream (let's just say stupid from here on out) people like pop/rap because it's in fashion. Stupid people listen to the music they listen to because it's fashionable. It's all a fashion sense to them, almost like clothing. We here at OCR listen to all the "weird" stuff we do because we actually have our own minds; we don't do things because they're popular because we have our own real opinions. Why do you think I go on forums? Because I can talk to many people who actually do think for themselves.

Now of course some people DO think for themselves and actually like this stuff. My sister likes Pop music and 80's music (mom's influence >_>) but hates hardcore rap like Li'l Wayne and whatnot. That's just what she likes and at that point I can respect that. It's certainly not what I'm into but at least she has her own opinion.

Anyway that's all I have to say.

I used to line up perfectly with your views, until I realized something. Some people like mainstream music because:
1. They genuinely like it
2. They don't know about anything better
3. They don't want complexity
4. They don't care nearly as much about music as you (or I)

Some people listen to music as a passive thing, it doesn't really matter to them that much in their lives. Have you ever watched b-boys (breakdancers)? If you don't know much about it, then pretty much anything they do is cool, even though a lot of it may be very basic stuff. Same goes for novels (explains the popularity of the Twilight series), art, cooking, and pretty much any other artform. If it doesn't matter that much in our life, then the shallow stuff probably won't bother you that much.

[cobaltstarfire]

3. They don't want complexity

Complexity isn't always a good thing you know. :P

Sometimes simplicity will give you the best sounding song.

[kitty]

Counter-point to your counter-point. I believe the original "stupid people" quote was supposed to be a given. He's saying that people who are already stupid happen to listen to mainstream music because it's fashionable. NOT because mainstream music MAKES people stupid.

[Salluz]

He's saying that people who are already stupid happen to listen to mainstream music because it's fashionable. NOT because mainstream music MAKES people stupid.Thanks.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to tear this quote apart.

What the hell makes someone stupid for their choice of preference?
Apparently, he isn't saying that a person is stupid for having a preference, although it is true (in some cases inapplicable to this situation) that someone can have a "stupid preference", but that isn't in regards to music. He is saying that idiots do whatever's cool because it's cool, not because they like it.

Or, alternate phrasing, what the hell makes someone's preference of music stupid? I don't claim to be the most omniscient man around, but I think if there were a set of guidelines that clearly established who was an idiot (or poser or any other derogatory term you guys come up with to pretentiously differentiate yourselves from people who like music you don't) based upon certain names, genres, dates and what the fuck ever, I would've heard about it by now.He ain't talkin' music, he's talkin' about jumpin' on a bandwagon that demands the person to sacrifice individuality. There's actually a lot of people jumpin' on stuff and not really considering what it is they're doing. Like, it's stupid to meditate (purposeful emphasis) on messages that encourage the listener to do crime, an that's no judgment to the person, but the action. Sometimes it's not what's being chosen as much as it is the purpose, better known as why. It's not up to any man to try and determine what person is stupid, but stupid actions should be identified, judged and discontinued.

Such guidelines do not exist and I'm up to my ass sick of hearing it. Not everyone is a diehard music fan. A lot of people only listen to whatever's on the radio because thats all they really have an enticement to do. If they like it with some extra cash lying around, they go out and buy it and enjoy it some more until they have their fill. They are not required to take it any further if there is no enticement to do so. They paid for their music and they can use as a fucking fashion statement, if they want to. Who are you to tell them otherwise?Why do you bark and take this man's statements out of context?

I'm going off here because the whole subject is insane and not many are saying much about it (that I know of). People have been bitching about Modern Pop and the mainstream casual listeners forever. These arguments, infantile as they are, are probably over 100 years old. People were saying this modern music is shit and destroying America since JAZZ, always favoring
the older days since 20-30 years ago - a "Golden Age" of music that didn't actually exist because the same fucking criticisms existed back then. True, people have whined about pop forever. I never encourage whining, but when I do hear valid statements about flaws in particular phases (such as a complete lack of depth and talent(b/c not eveything has to be deep), i.e. Soulja Boy), I can agree, although I will not condemn the artist. In fact, I learned to disregard the artist and ask "who the hell signed this person?" The artist isn't the main deal; the companies who guinea pig their listeners are the ones I am completely discontent with. As of now, no point in worrying because the world is what it is and will continue with or without me.

Now I'm going to dive right off the *** **** deep end and say that if Music is just fashion for those stupid people, then Music is just culture for you guys. Its just a channel for your alternatives to the disgusting and awful and deceitful and pure fucking evil Popular Cultures. Its propaganda for your politics and atheism. Its an experiment to see how far "art" can go on little merit, training or any real credibility. Its an exercise to see how much you can spend on some bitch because she's "not Britney Spears". Its a chance for every miserable outcast 20 miles around to gather, smoke pot, and crawl one-by-one up the collective ass and orgasm over and over again about how much fun it is to be in this awful secret little club that shits in the face of mainstream culture and waves its middle finger with a rebel yell screaming MORE! MORE! MORE!That's just plain crazy.

So when it is EVER about the fucking music? It's about the music when you're dealing with someone who has a burning desire to express themselves one way or another.

Hell, until I started coming to Ocremix, I had no idea people my age ever thought about chord structures, or melodies, or production values. People who actually cared about the music for the sake of the music itself, not what genre it is or who listens to it. That's what I have longed for all of my life, even in the "bliss" of ignorance.

Music is just organized noise. Its not life, its not love, its not fashion, its not culture, its not anything but a series of sonic vibrations that people have overgratified into a religion onto itself. It is NOTHING by itself. It's just music. It's a tool that you bought and are free to use however you want to use it. Same for everyone else too.Then you use it to convey whatever it is that you're trying to convey. The same goes with art. There are no deep rules concerning visual art, but it can be upsetting when people sacrifice creativity and start drawing cheap stick figures with "style" slapped on it for profit, guinea-pigging the audience (testing to see how much of a low standard one can get away with), and disregarding real talent with real messages because it's too heavy. If people like what they like one way or another, that's fine, but I hold my decrees to myself concerning standards and music. The song doesn't have to be perfect, but I'm not going to listen to songs of stick-figure quality and pass it off as "art" because I'm scared that someone will accuse me of being close-minded, facist, uptight, old-fashioned or uncool.

Edit: just to say, stick figures can be quite artistic, but what I'm really talking about is the lack of talent and/or needed effort.

Bottom Line: If you cannot respect a culture, you do not deserve one of your own. End. (I'm going to regret submitting this, but whatever. Post).Just remember to respect the person you're talking to (in this case, Luke), and you'll be fine.

[Blue Magic]

Music is just organized noise. Its not life, its not love, its not fashion, its not culture, its not anything but a series of sonic vibrations that people have overgratified into a religion onto itself. It is NOTHING by itself. It's just music. It's a tool that you bought and are free to use however you want to use it. Same for everyone else too.

Do you just realized what you said? And you couldn't have said it in a better place.:wink:

Sure, you got the basic definition of music, but it is so, so much more than that. Music is what the listener defines it as.

If you really think it is just organized noise, then I'm telling you right now, you're missing the entire point of music.

(I'm going to regret submitting this, but whatever.

Then why did you post your comment then?

[JJT]

I'm revealing my disgusting hipster leanings, but I think this is some pretty fantastic pop music:

MGMT - Electric Feel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtUI5MC9tVM

[LuketheXjesse]

What the hell makes someone stupid for their choice of preference? Or, alternate phrasing, what the hell makes someone's preference of music stupid? I don't claim to be the most omniscient man around, but I think if there were a set of guidelines that clearly established who was an idiot (or poser or any other derogatory term you guys come up with to pretentiously differentiate yourselves from people who like music you don't) based upon certain names, genres, dates and what the fuck ever, I would've heard about it by now.

Such guidelines do not exist and I'm up to my ass sick of hearing it. Not everyone is a diehard music fan. A lot of people only listen to whatever's on the radio because thats all they really have an enticement to do. If they like it with some extra cash lying aorund, they go out and buy it and enjoy it some more until they have their fill. They are not required to take it any further if there is no enticement to do so. They paid for their music and they can use as a fucking fashion statement, if they want to. Who are you to tell them otherwise?

I didn't say they were stupid for listening to it. I meant they were stupid for letting what's popular dictate what they like. Sheesh :roll: And of course not everyone takes music seriously. That's why my sister was mentioned.

Also thank you Salluz.

I used to line up perfectly with your views, until I realized something. Some people like mainstream music because:
1. They genuinely like it
2. They don't know about anything better
3. They don't want complexity
4. They don't care nearly as much about music as you (or I)

Once again, this is why I brought up my sister

Now of course some people DO think for themselves and actually like this stuff. My sister likes Pop music and 80's music (mom's influence >_>) but hates hardcore rap like Li'l Wayne and whatnot. That's just what she likes and at that point I can respect that. It's certainly not what I'm into but at least she has her own opinion.

Are you people looking for a reason to contradict me?

Counter-point to your counter-point. I believe the original "stupid people" quote was supposed to be a given. He's saying that people who are already stupid happen to listen to mainstream music because it's fashionable. NOT because mainstream music MAKES people stupid.

Thank you, too. At least someone here isn't LOOKING for an argument.

[Jaybell]

I wouldn't mind it if our radio station at work played anything other than the SAME TWENTY FUCKING SONGS.

Disturbia and Let it Rock are two of those, and I am sick of them. They're alright, but man, how about NOT PLAYING IT THREE TIMES IN AS MANY HOURS?

One reason I'm glad I wasn't alive during the eighties: I didn't have to hear Michael Jackson get overplayed and overplayed to the point of absurdity, and so I can appreciate his music for what it is.

[Salluz]

Then why did you post your comment then?
He probably felt that it needed to be said.

Those vids, especially the political rock/fast rap and the Maroon 5 song, I liked. I heard some faults here and there, but to be fair, these songs weren't shitty.

Now, THIS is what I'm getting tired of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGIr6cyMdAE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4_Dei5srfM)
"A milli, a milli, a milli, a milli"... WTF!? Lil' Wayne has MAAAAAAAD mic skills, but he needs to switch DJ's or something. Now, if you like this, as repetitive, predictable, pointless and played-out as it is, that's you, but c'mon!!! How can you sit for three to four minutes with "a milli, a milli, a milli, a milli" in your ear while some arrogant dude who looks like Splinter the Rat raps about how his career is the best? WHO F***ING CARES!? Excuse my terminology, but as a friend in the 'hood once said: What n**** (in this case, any guy) wants to sit up and listen to another n**** (any male artist) talk about his money, his hoes, his cars, his life, serving no purpose except to boast of that n****'s life and put money in that n****'s pocket? At that point, it's not just about the sounds coming out of the speakers, but the message that's being conveyed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZMm3nhYfU8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCil-kLGkvc
WTF signed'd (pronouced "sighn-did) this mu'-fu'!? You don't need to be a rap fan to know how WACK this dude is. He can't talk, looks like an illiterate, alcoholic thug, sitting there trying to rap about trappin' after wastin' a L-L-LOOOOOOOT of money on that stupid Bart Simpson charm. He probably had to produce a lot of mixtapes to make up for the loss he faced from buying that shining POS that deBeers (or whomever) forced out of their anuses. "Pussy a** n****!" Is that all you can say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWoM5cRGDOA
...and then these beefs... Can't we all just get along? We shoulda' learned from Tupac and Biggy, or even 50 Cent and Ja' Rule. Nope, we just keep beefin'...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD8tJvvCiv8
...ah, more guinea-pigging... repeated bonus question: WHO F***ING CARES!? Y'ain't hot because you say nuthin' on da track; you's hot 'cuz you's fresh out of a bull's intestines 'n later got preserved in a warmer for two days. Now, we see yo' ghetto fab industry E-Z-Bake oven instrumental-loopin' a** on TV wit' a bunch o' big-booty chicks to hide yo' lack o' concepts & skeeeeeellz (skills).

I bet that if you go up to one of these dudes and give them your opinion (and it doesn't line up with theirs), if they don't try to throw a swing at you, they'll probably shine their silver/golden/platinum teeth at you and say, "uUuUuuhHHhh, nigga u hatin. U'z a haTUr. Pussy a** n****".

:roll: [/Darkesworde]

This crap is aimed to the ghetto, so people buy into it because it's "hood" or "tough", when it's really stupid. All jokes aside, I feel sorry for the societies who enjoy this crap.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

There are genuinely people (mostly girls between the ages of 9 and 15) who genuinely like bland, generic, written-to-a-formula pop.

But I think a lot of people have never heard anything better. If your general frame of reference consists of Miley Cyrus for "rock" and 50 cent for "hip-hop," then yes, Nickelback and Kanye West look like fucking geniuses.

As an experiment, I've tried introducing OCR tunes to a number of my students, and I find that very frequently their reaction depends on who's around. When I have one girl over by the stereo and the rest are over at the bars on the other side of the gym, they'll say some of these mixes are the coolest music they've ever heard -- I have a number of girls doing floor routines to remixes this season.

But if I play the same tune for them when all their friends are around, they'll say they don't like it and ask me to put on some Jonas Brothers or Coldplay or some other shit like that.

To me, this demonstrates that, at least for some people, it genuinely isn't about the music at all -- it's about listening to something their friends think is cool. And the funny thing is they don't even realize they're doing this most of the time. It's subconcious, reflexive even.

I'd say my biggest objection to contemporary pop (especially hip-hop) is that it usually has about two seconds of actual music written for the whole song. Where a (forgive my elitism) realcomposer might come up with a short riff and think "this is a good start, I could develop this into a full song," a typical pop producer would say "I'm done. Loop it for five minutes and we'll call it a song."

[Salluz]

I'd say my biggest objection to contemporary pop (especially hip-hop) is that it usually has about two seconds of actual music written for the whole song. Where a (forgive my elitism) real composer might come up with a short riff and think "this is a good start, I could develop this into a full song," a typical pop producer would say "I'm done. Loop it for five minutes and we'll call it a song."
HAHA! That's really the substance of most of the stuff we hear today: SimSynths from FruityLoops, bad lyrics and some 808s.


Also thank you Salluz.Noooo problem. :)!!

[zircon]

Yep, most modern hip hop is just awful. No two ways about it.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Yep, most modern hip hop is just awful. No two ways about it.

I'm not sure, but I'm assuming you're being sarcastic here.

There is such a thing as good hip-hop. I've heard plenty of it. There's a local jazz/blues/hip-hop station that plays some seriously sweet stuff.

You just never hear that sort of hip-hop on hit music stations.

[cobaltstarfire]

I must have lucked out with my friends and family, just about all of them are musicians full time, or as a little side thing for college, so I've never been exposed to people that say different things about music depending on who's around. To them, if they like it, they like it regardless of where it came from, if they don't like they'll tell you about how much they hate it and wish it would go away so they wouldn't have to hear it.

Well ok, one of them thinks it's "creepy" whenever she finds out some of my music she previously liked was from a video game, I don't really know what is so creepy about that but whatever, she listens to mostly alternative or extremely "weird" stuff like digeridoo, so I'm not sure how she grades music.

[Blue Magic]

You just never hear that sort of hip-hop on hit music stations.

It never hits music stations because alot of music stations are scared of losing ratings.

"Bitches, hoes, killing niggas, and slapping random people + a good beat" is what sales. That is what most people want to listen to, so they cater to "most people."

Alot of rappers and hip hop artists do make songs that are meaningful and carry a positive message, but they won't play those tracks.


To sum it all up, music has been converted from an art form, to a business. Thats why its not what it use to be.

[Salluz]

To sum it all up, music has been converted from an art form, to a business. Thats why its not what it use to be.
Yep, that's it in a nutshell.

Anybody like Lupe Fiasco? I like his stuff (actually has a subject), although some of his songs seem to be... lame? Not that good? (IMO)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf-EuQ5fRIM
^He's not much on singing, but the song is one of my faves from him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OboCSvVN2tI
^I didn't really care for the music (it's okay IMO, although the beat knocks), but I like how he uses the hood beat and puts real thought into his lyrics. The subject involves people trying to pressure him because of what kind of rapper he is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyPmNa7pC8o
^One of his older songs, lol. I'm assuming that he's supposed to be experimental/abstract/avant-garde(-ish).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89J0otY5UI0
^I was a little annoyed by the chorus (not that he was saying "n****", but that it was repeated a little too long for my liking), but I loved the lyrics. Just food for thought, I think there was a point that he was trying to make when he was redundantly saying "The coolest n****, what!" The music is deep, the beat has that old-school-ish swag, nothing is repeated too often (besides "The coolest n****, what!")... you get it.

I like how Lupe's himself in whatever he does. That isn't to say that the hood dudes aren't themselves, but few of the more thuggish rappers rap artistically unless it's the art of bragging. For instance, as unusual as it sounds, T.I., who's supposed to be so hood, actually has something to say in some of his music.

[LuketheXjesse]

There are genuinely people (mostly girls between the ages of 9 and 15) who genuinely like bland, generic, written-to-a-formula pop.

My sister.

But if I play the same tune for them when all their friends are around, they'll say they don't like it and ask me to put on some Jonas Brothers or Coldplay or some other shit like that

That's something else I forgot. A lot of people stick to the mainstream because they're scared of losing social acceptance. But you shouldn't really have to as long as you're upbeat and confident about what you like (i.e. me). I work with a lot of mainstream people and they're all cool, but if they bring up music at all I'll straight up tell them about Dream Theater or another progressive band. Maybe even video game music.

There is such a thing as good hip-hop. I've heard plenty of it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t41oSMD6vc

Not anything amazing, just pretty catchy :)

Well ok, one of them thinks it's "creepy" whenever she finds out some of my music she previously liked was from a video game, I don't really know what is so creepy about that but whatever, she listens to mostly alternative or extremely "weird" stuff like digeridoo, so I'm not sure how she grades music.

Closed-minded >_>

[Bleck]

either all music is good in it's own way or all music is bad

to each his own, I say

[Salluz]

Go to Church by Ice Cube
Yeah, I didn't take it too seriously, although I didn't like how he was saying that all of the pussies go to church. It was another gangsta hit that was better than others at the time.

Haha, that reminds me of when I was in high school. I used to be able to appreciate that kind of sound until I grew up (heh, I'm still young, only 19). I moved away from that style because I'm trying to develop my own. Lil' Jon's style (along with others like Jermaine Dupri and DJ Khaled) has been overused + annoys me now, since a lot of people try to imitate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI9Rdn2-ETA
^I don't really know how to feel about Aguilera's post-conceptional (wrong term?) comeback. I'll have to play the song again to know if I like it or not. Edit: I don't know why I kinda' like it (not a whole lot, though). She's sexy. That's all that matters to me, lol!

[The Vagrance]

The new Common song is incredibly BA as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo7FpI8MmmE

Also, this song has a pretty sweet play on the whole gun talk thing thats big right now. Its not mainstream by any means but its incredibly ill, except for MF DOOM who seems to be asleep and mumbling the whole time (although Gift of Gab's verse more than makes up for it):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uimO0YIJ7vQ

[VCR Channel]

I'd say my biggest objection to contemporary pop (especially hip-hop) is that it usually has about two seconds of actual music written for the whole song. Where a (forgive my elitism) realcomposer might come up with a short riff and think "this is a good start, I could develop this into a full song," a typical pop producer would say "I'm done. Loop it for five minutes and we'll call it a song."
That's not necessarily a bad thing. There are producers, like DJ Premier, that often make simple beats, but they can be incredibly effective and elegant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7nu9UeodZ0
That's one of my favorite songs. "Nas is Like" produced by DJ Premier.

[The Derrit]

I'm with everyone that general modern pop isn't what it should be. But modern hip hop has some pretty good examples of great actual music and lyricism. If I may:

Touch My Soul, by Collective Efforts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMuybcie6CE

Dark Skinned White Girls, by Murs (honestly, most anything by Murs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HernHe5Ctek

Daydreamin' by Lupe Fiasco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQYcoPfE7Xk

Demolition Double by Turbo T Double
Coincidentally, this is the same dude who does the street fighter raps. Note the sweet shadaloo hat. Makes tons and tons of references.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ogPPK7qNAs

Stylistic differences aside, I think it's fair to say these are all competent, skilled artists who put more than the crap you hear on the radio into their songs.

[Salluz]

The song from Nas was cool, but the loops did get on my nerves a bit. Oh yeah, I forgot about "Daydreaming" from Lupe, one of the best examples of good modern hiphop music I've heard thus far.

Pharrell Williams:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oiqw4YZ0nLY
I don't exactly know the message of this song (about being a player or whatever). If that's what he meant, I don't follow up with the morals, but the way he brought it was irresistibly dope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgLfJuKUWiw
I don't exactly like the phrase when he said something about getting sucked by a bitch, but I overlooked it because of the song's creativity + general message. I like the jazz-like swag and the Jamie Cullam samples @ 4:12. Skills!

Let's take it ten year back to Lauryn Hill!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkfKGzX7rEw
She should've never involved herself with Rohan Marley, nor commit those faults in the legal aspect of sales (losing money b/c of disputes concerning songwriting)... she would probably be mentally stable right now. Bless Lauryn's soul.

[PrototypeRaptor]

Not to be a hatin' or nothin...but really, what do I do if I completely detest rap in all forms? I can't stand it at all. The second a "rapper" starts talking in that loud, obnoxious voice that somehow turns a poetry reading into something cool (not that I have anything against a good poetry reading, mind you) I switch channels. Usually to another rap song, or to a contemporary crap band, or (and this is what eventually happens) completely off.

So am I just SOL for modern music? The last artists I really had respect for were the swing bands of the 40's, and I wasn't even alive then. Where did the musicians go? Please don't say to the session rooms - even though I bet it's true. sigh.

If you could recommend some "modern pop songs" that have even half of that improvisational skill/musicianship demonstrated in bands of the past then, please, by all means, give me something to listen to.
Otherwise I'll just be over here in the corner, slowly phasing out of existence. Oh, how I hate (most of) my generation...

[The Vagrance]

Not to be a hatin' or nothin...but really, what do I do if I completely detest rap in all forms? I can't stand it at all. The second a "rapper" starts talking in that loud, obnoxious voice that somehow turns a poetry reading into something cool (not that I have anything against a good poetry reading, mind you) I switch channels. Usually to another rap song, or to a contemporary crap band, or (and this is what eventually happens) completely off.

There are quite a few more laidback rappers as well that you might like. MF DOOM has a rambling style that a lot of people (myself included) seem to like. Gift of Gab is incredibly rhythmically solid and his work as a part of Blackalicious is wholly excellent. Saul Williams is an interesting rapper in the sense that he doesn't really rap all of the time, he does a lot of spoken-word styled stuff. He was the guy who released an album for free that was produced by Trent Reznor (The Rise and Fall of Niggy Tardust). If you haven't checked out most of the videos in this thread then by all means look at some of them. You may also just never be able to get into rap music, which is completely fine as well.

If you could recommend some "modern pop songs" that have even half of that improvisational skill/musicianship demonstrated in bands of the past then, please, by all means, give me something to listen to.
Otherwise I'll just be over here in the corner, slowly phasing out of existence. Oh, how I hate (most of) my generation...

I can't really think of a modern pop song that shows any improvisational skills, yet alone good ones. Being a giant fan of The Mars Volta though, I do have to recommend you check them out. A lot of their music is based heavily on improvisation in both their live shows and albums. They are a bit hard to get into and it seems to be either you love 'em or hate, but they're still worth a listen. If you can make it through Cassandra Gemini all the way through your first try then you're a trooper.

Squarepusher is also worth a look-see. His albums - especially Ultravisitor - have quite a bit of improvisational elements in them, especially on his song Iambic 9 Poetry where he basically improvises with himself on multiple instruments.

[Tensei]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest this song which has been kind of a guilty pleasure ever since I heard it for the first time.

Yes, seriously.

Look past the horrible auto-tuned vocals and focus on the music itself, it's amazing. I was honestly awestruck when I heard the chorus drop for the first time. I was all like..holy shit this is awesome! Dynamics? In my pop music? It's more likely than you think. I was very surprised at the inclusion of a string section to go along with the stereotypical MTV 'rock'band image. Very tight production as well, I just wish she was a better singer :(

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr0Wv5DJhuk

[Kenobio]

Yep, most modern hip hop is just awful. No two ways about it.

I assume you're being sarcastic (I hope), but I never pass up a chance to recommend Nujabes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nujabes) and CYNE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYNE_(hip_hop_group)). :)

Nujabes (featuring Cise Starr & Akin from CYNE) - Feather

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26NIChKGDZU

Nujabes (featuring Cise Starr) - Lady Brown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjqTiQhOgU8

Nujabes - Counting Stars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O0kuoiAm2A

CYNE - Maintain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-Y20q0P6eU

[Bahamut]

I assume you're being sarcastic (I hope)

My guess is that Andy had an implied (popular) there.

[zircon]

No, I do think that MOST modern hip hop is bad. Not all, but I challenge you to go to OurStage.com and browse "hip hop". Out of probably thousands of tracks, maybe 1% are worth listening to.. the rest are bitches, hos, niggas, 808s, terrible mastering, sine waves, and maybe autotune.

[audio fidelity]

can i just throw in my two cents

pop music - popular music

people on this site may make the distinction between soundtrack (movies/games) and everything else as being pop - but i don't

i will throw together most rock/pop/rnb/rap as all pop - but things like underground hip-hop or obscure electronic/jazz (squarepusher) - i don't consider as facets of pop music at all - there genres do not play the game with major labels and sell out to commercialism

this is a cool thread still - and those hip hop examples are great - but i still do not think of it as pop

[Salluz]

Not to be a hatin' or nothin...but really, what do I do if I completely detest rap in all forms? I can't stand it at all. The second a "rapper" starts talking in that loud, obnoxious voice that somehow turns a poetry reading into something cool (not that I have anything against a good poetry reading, mind you) I switch channels. Usually to another rap song, or to a contemporary crap band, or (and this is what eventually happens) completely off.
As aforementioned, not all rapping = loud and obnoxious. If you happen to not like rap at all, that's fine. There are various types of rap/hiphop I don't really identify with myself.

So am I just SOL for modern music? The last artists I really had respect for were the swing bands of the 40's, and I wasn't even alive then. Where did the musicians go? Please don't say to the session rooms - even though I bet it's true. sigh. The session rooms, lol.

If you could recommend some "modern pop songs" that have even half of that improvisational skill/musicianship demonstrated in bands of the past then, please, by all means, give me something to listen to.
Otherwise I'll just be over here in the corner, slowly phasing out of existence. Oh, how I hate (most of) my generation...John Mayer, perhaps (because of the guitar solos). Well, I don't think he has half, but maybe a third or fourth, lol! Some of his songs are more improvisational than others... depends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3TLDS7hm8

I find myself getting annoyed with most hiphop because of it's robotic setup; lack of improvisation. If it's too improvised (no structure), it sounds messy; if it's too robotic, it won't sound natural or realistic; rather, bland and predictable.

[defender!!]

y'all need some aesop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlsABPviW2w

the man is extremely inconsistent (hot as hell one track, ice cold the next) but i love this one. i've simply never heard someone string SYLLABLES together like this guy. his sleazy, overly sarcastic tone on EVERY SONG just makes me love it even more.

there's also none shall pass, which i think is another of his bests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1u43KDiWD0

[Magewout]

I'm very annoyed by some people calling others 'stupid' for listening to whatever is popular, and that this would mean that they can't form their own opinion.

You know, listening to something because it's popular IS the consequence of someone's opinion. You might not like it because it isn't your opinion, but it IS still their own choice.

I seriously hate people who dislike popular music just because it's popular, or who dismiss popular because 'lol everyone listens to it because they want to fit in'. You might not realize it, but there are SO many people who 'want to be different', that they aren't different at all.

/rant

I'd say I'm gonna regret clicking the submit button, but then people will whine about why I chose to click it anyway.

[Salluz]

I'm very annoyed by some people calling others 'stupid' for listening to whatever is popular, and that this would mean that they can't form their own opinion.
You just missed the point. Luke was talking about people who are already stupid. It's clear that listening to pop /= stupid. Besides, it's not a serious statement.

[PrototypeRaptor]

Squarepusher is also worth a look-see. His albums - especially Ultravisitor - have quite a bit of improvisational elements in them, especially on his song Iambic 9 Poetry where he basically improvises with himself on multiple instruments.

How is it that I've never heard of squarepusher until now?! DAMN I listened to like every single song on youtube... plus Chris Cunningham directing the music videos? Ah, it was good times for several hours...:D

Anway, thanks for the heads up, man!

[DCT]

This thread was fun, except for all the rap. Rap sucks. :(

-D

[Audity]

There will always be closed-minded, "stupid" people (just going along with the thread). I just hope the world is less overrun with them soon, so I can get onto a life without such a mosquito infecting the entire world on my mind. Oftentimes I think of a world where high quality/high standard is forced (a scenario that seems to be on the rise, anyway), so that such people, static variables of life who simply 'accept things as they are', will simply accept it—not an idiocracy overrun with mediocrity. If anything, it'll protect humankind in the end, imo, at least for longer than what some people currently in power will destroy. (Then again, anything I say merely on this Internet forum can easily be seen as shortsighted, and countered by someone else with a different motive for the world; and who's to say I'm the one with the better plan?)

There's such a thing as seeing art on a personal level, and one on an historic level. There's such an opinion as hating mainstream music because of the philosophies behind such a thing, and knowing better alternatives anyway. I don't see the difficulty in understanding if one merely thinks, or rather, has multiple experiences on the issue. As for me, I can't think of any Youtube links to offer or whatever!

[Salluz]

This thread was fun, except for all the rap. Rap sucks. :(

-D
What do you mean? You are a rapper yourself! Edit: oh yeah, Gucci Mane is ugh.

[OverCoat]

I like Propane Nightmares by Pendulum :3 It's almost like the '80s mated with the '90s and then this happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn9970dxQ2g

video unrelated but awesome hahaha

[FiremanJoe]

OverCoat, that song makes baby jesus (and me) cry. :(

Excuse the cliched 'they sold out/old material is better/second album syndrome' complaint, but I feel that in this case it really is true. Pendulum's music most definitely had a turning point at the rerelease of their debut album Hold Your Colour, which is one of the greatest selling drum & bass albums of all time (I think this means they were doing something right). The two new tracks, Blood Sugar and Axle Grinder (replacing Another Planet and Still Grey) are not only sub-par, but break the continuity of the album. From here on, it only gets worse (and I say this as a big Pendulum fan).

The next single, Granite, was a mediocre, formulaic clone of Slam.

Then In Silico was released. The lead single, Propane Nightmares, is positively boring and part of the riff sounds like a kid trying to play Smoke on the Water (but hitting some wrong notes). 9000 Miles is a decent track, but is let down by the fact that it's essentially a clone of Streamline (which is in turn, very much similar to the track Spiral, which they released before signing to Breakbeat Kaos). Now on one hand, I think it's great that they 'tried something new', but I was utterly disappointed in the poor execution of what would have otherwise been a fairly good concept. Instead of an accessible entry-point for newcomers to the drum & bass scene, In Silico only offered a watered-down mixture of rock and breaks. Sorry folks, barely a trace of drum & bass to be found here. I'm very much inclined to put it all down to the influence of the new label, Warner Music, but at the same time, the inclusion of Rob Swire's uninspiring vocals on so many tracks makes me wonder if there have been changes on a more personal level within the band.

Even through all this disappointment, I remain hopeful that their next album will be a return to form. In the meantime I guess at least I've got The Qemists to give me a good dose of hard rock drum & bass.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zY9LuBxHSVA

[The Vagrance]

OverCoat, that song makes baby jesus (and me) cry. :(

Excuse the cliched 'they sold out/old material is better/second album syndrome' complaint, but I feel that in this case it really is true. Pendulum's music most definitely had a turning point at the rerelease of their debut album Hold Your Colour, which is one of the greatest selling drum & bass albums of all time (I think this means they were doing something right). The two new tracks, Blood Sugar and Axle Grinder (replacing Another Planet and Still Grey) are not only sub-par, but break the continuity of the album. From here on, it only gets worse (and I say this as a big Pendulum fan).

The next single, Granite, was a mediocre, formulaic clone of Slam.

Then In Silico was released. The lead single, Propane Nightmares, is positively boring and part of the riff sounds like a kid trying to play Smoke on the Water (but hitting some wrong notes). 9000 Miles is a decent track, but is let down by the fact that it's essentially a clone of Streamline (which is in turn, very much similar to the track Spiral, which they released before signing to Breakbeat Kaos). Now on one hand, I think it's great that they 'tried something new', but I was utterly disappointed in the poor execution of what would have otherwise been a fairly good concept. Instead of an accessible entry-point for newcomers to the drum & bass scene, In Silico only offered a watered-down mixture of rock and breaks. Sorry folks, barely a trace of drum & bass to be found here. I'm very much inclined to put it all down to the influence of the new label, Warner Music, but at the same time, the inclusion of Rob Swire's uninspiring vocals on so many tracks makes me wonder if there have been changes on a more personal level within the band.


I wasn't going to say anything abut Overcoat's post but you echoed my thoughts. I lost mad respect for them from Hold Your Colour onward, especially considering their bitch-out with Breakbeat Kaos/DJ Fresh and later the dogsonacid forum. Really they're a whiney bunch with far less talent than they perceive, though they did push for a level of production values DnB had not really seen before then and everything before Another Planet was ace (HYC was a good album but quite a few stinkers), but they rejected the scene that raised them and refused to acknowledge those that helped them get as far as they have.

For good DnB, The Qemists are great. Really though, Spor and Noisia still have some of the best mixdowns in any genre I've heard. Danny Byrd's new album is also pretty sweet. There's also Sub Focus and DJ Fresh for tunes similar in vein to Pendulum.

/rant

Pendulum happens to be like, one of two artists who I can't stand (the other being Kanye West).

[PrototypeRaptor]

I wasn't going to say anything abut Overcoat's post but you echoed my thoughts. I lost mad respect for them from Hold Your Colour onward, especially considering their bitch-out with Breakbeat Kaos/DJ Fresh and later the dogsonacid forum. Really they're a whiney bunch with far less talent than they perceive, though they did push for a level of production values DnB had not really seen before then and everything before Another Planet was ace (HYC was a good album but quite a few stinkers), but they rejected the scene that raised them and refused to acknowledge those that helped them get as far as they have.

For good DnB, The Qemists are great. Really though, Spor and Noisia still have some of the best mixdowns in any genre I've heard. Danny Byrd's new album is also pretty sweet. There's also Sub Focus and DJ Fresh for tunes similar in vein to Pendulum.

/rant

Pendulum happens to be like, one of two artists who I can't stand (the other being Kanye West).


Well, I like In Silico. Quite a bit, actually. So what if it's not "genre" dnb? It's not even really dnb in my book - and that's a good thing IMO. You can't tell me that the dnb scene doesn't need any new ideas or anything - noisia? spor? I've heard everything they've got to offer after listening to one song...
I applaud Pendulum for trying something new, even if it was for the wrong reasons... XD

fast edit to avoid foot in mouth:
I never did say that Pendulum was inspiring on all of their tracks; as you pointed out, they do indeed rehash tons of material. I was just commenting that I like the way they took a step away from the typical dnb/jungle/it-all-sounds-the-same - I didn't mean that Pendulum is the BEST BAND EVAR OMG LOL111!!11!~.

[Salluz]

Pendulum happens to be like, one of two artists who I can't stand (the other being Kanye West).
That is another thing: I do notice that Kanye West is overrated, although he does have talent. I guess it's because he showed more than enough differentiation and some depth/intelligence to go with his music.

He'd be fine if he:

Didn't put emphasis on his words in a way that's unpleasant
Try to sing
Would do something that's 100% Kanye rather than sampling old hits all day. Even if it's one or two songs, something.
Repeat certain words and try to make lame sounds effects in his raps (again, unpleasant)

[Dhsu]

Example #1:

Kevin Rudolf feat. Lil Wayne - Let It Rock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsrkFNodBGQ
Just heard this on the radio for the first time yesterday, and it took me by surprise for two reasons: it doesn't preach at length about "bitches," and it successfully combines numerous different genres into one. The end result is pretty kickass, not gonna lie. It's very anthemic, very powerful, and very fresh.
That Alfonso Ribeiro shirt is the freakin' BEST.

[zircon]

I wasn't going to say anything abut Overcoat's post but you echoed my thoughts. I lost mad respect for them from Hold Your Colour onward, especially considering their bitch-out with Breakbeat Kaos/DJ Fresh and later the dogsonacid forum. Really they're a whiney bunch with far less talent than they perceive, though they did push for a level of production values DnB had not really seen before then and everything before Another Planet was ace (HYC was a good album but quite a few stinkers), but they rejected the scene that raised them and refused to acknowledge those that helped them get as far as they have.

Umm... who "helped" them? How did they "reject" the scene? It's their music, they can do whatever they want. They don't owe anyone anything. If you noticed none of their influences are other DNB groups. They always make their own style. Since HYC came out there have been countless Pendulum clones which is why they decided to do something new and what THEY wanted to do instead of just releasing more of the same. C'mon, if you don't like the new style, that's fine, but your complaints are otherwise not legit.

Also, I think they're probably the most talented DNB group out there overall by far. I've picked up a lot of DNB lately and it's all almost exactly the same. Pendulum makes use of some of the same sounds other artists do but they also integrate original vocals and riffs (rather than sampling EVERYTHING) and their hooks are far better than the simple Arabian scale i->iib nonsense you hear in virtually every dnb track. They deserve a ton of respect.

[The Vagrance]

Umm... who "helped" them? How did they "reject" the scene? It's their music, they can do whatever they want. They don't owe anyone anything. If you noticed none of their influences are other DNB groups. They always make their own style. Since HYC came out there have been countless Pendulum clones which is why they decided to do something new and what THEY wanted to do instead of just releasing more of the same. C'mon, if you don't like the new style, that's fine, but your complaints are otherwise not legit.

DJ Fresh helped them out a lot with their style and especially with marketing. They collaborated with a large number of artists who had similar sounds to theirs, such as Bulletproof and Fresh. They were also members of Dogs on Acid before they struck it big and were occasional posters on The Grid forum. DnB is a tiny, tight-knit genre where the producers and DJs interact fairly regularly with their fans and otherwise. They (specifically El Hornet) used to play Counter-Strike with other members of the forum.

The first sign of them being whiney was when DJ Fresh released Junglesound Gold, which included the Masochist VIP by them. They apparently didn't want this and posted on their myspace and on the forum that they didn't approve of the album and had a public feud with Fresh until their lawyers shut them up. They were also criticized fairly heavily for Slam and Blood Sugar around this time and started whining a bunch, talking about how shallow DnB is and how they are great because they are influenced by Led Zeppelin. It ended how pretty much all forum feuds end: with a huge bitch-out about how misunderstood they are and saying that they were never going back again (which it took them actually the second or third time for that to be true).

The main thing they've contributed to DnB has been dubbed the "pendu-snare", which is that fat snare sound that quite a few people are using now. The only notable copycats I'd be willing to point out would be Sub Focus and The Qemists, as Fresh had been doing a similar style as Pendulum around the same time as Pendulum.

Its not that I mind DnB artists doing something different than DnB (Adam F has produced rap tracks, Noisia is doing their House/Breaks thing as is Spor and Evol Intent, there are quite a few dubstep sideprojects, etc.) but Pendulum is simply bad at what they're doing. They're just as, if not more guilty of repeating the same sound over and over again with their atypical drums and cheesy lead synth, and the rock aspect sounds slapped on at best. Rob Swire is also an average vocalist at best.

Also, I think they're probably the most talented DNB group out there overall by far. I've picked up a lot of DNB lately and it's all almost exactly the same. Pendulum makes use of some of the same sounds other artists do but they also integrate original vocals and riffs (rather than sampling EVERYTHING) and their hooks are far better than the simple Arabian scale i->iib nonsense you hear in virtually every dnb track. They deserve a ton of respect.

The thing that a lot of people don't get is the complexity behind those "simple Arabian scales." DnB is largely about subtlety, with the exception of Jump-Up and that grimy Darkstep stuff. The melody is sometimes secondary; you have to listen to the vibe of the track. Liquid is all about this.

Its one thing to try to show melody in electronic music, but too often electronic artists feel the need to have it blaring on a lead going, "LOOK! HERE IS THE MELODY!" The best electronic music has always had a sense of subtlety and refinement to it. Matrix, Calibre, Noisia (The Distance is a perfect example), D Kay, Dom & Roland, Teebee, Photek, Ed Rush & Optical, Black Sun Empire, and many more have all done this. Even old Pendulum was this way (Vault and the Spiral are still great). Their songs have lost their depth though, its all whiney-synth with the same damn drums from every other song.

Pendulum's not the only one to have non-DnB influences. In fact, the best DnB artists have gone on record saying that they try not to listen to too much DnB.

Also, Pendulum wasn't the first to use original vocals. Most, if not, all of the vocals on Danny Byrd's new album were completely original, Fresh has used vocals, and Roni Size and Reprazent had MC Dynamite who rapped over most of the tracks (not to mention guest vocals on a number of tracks).

Pendulum got popular because they have easily hummable melodies, the way most artists get popular. Problem is, their songs have no depth and will not stand the test of time. Two years later and Slam is as annoying as ever, yet Voyager is still a heavy track. Pendulum is no different from any other mainstream artist, they took something good and cheesed it up.

You may think all DnB sounds the same, and thats fine, but once you hit that threshold where everything in DnB makes sense, then you'll appreciate DnB that much more.

[The Pezman]

Ah, I was hoping for a thread like this.

This semester I've been recruited to DJ two dance parties. I have DJed smaller events in the past, and there I was able to play a blend of styles: Reggae, rock, electro, and of course hip hop. But little did I realize just how serious the monotony of music desired was. The first time I was nearly kicked out of the DJ booth because I didn't have the twenty hip hop songs by the five artists people wanted to hear. The second time around I asked for music in advance, and it was more of the same. The worst of it? My roommates and I participated in Apollo Night (a talent show based on diversity and minority performance) with Dylan's All Along the Watchtower and we were booed off. I don't think any song or genre is destructive in itself, but when people only want to hear loud, aggressive, lewd lyrics with repetitive four bar backgrounds we have a problem.

[Mustin]

After thinking about it, listening to all of the music in this thread, and reading what people had to say, I just wanna say:

You either like it or you don't. So what.

For those of you wanting a revolution, the tide is going to start to turn pretty soon as the economy keeps falling so no worries for you.

In the mean time, keep listening to what you like, and use cool services like Pandora to find more music like that.

Word.

[OverCoat]

I still like Propane Nightmare >:V

Honestly though that's the only Pendulum song I've ever heard, lol


and no one liked the video?

[Audity]

Word, indeed.

I'm with a roommate right now that doesn't want to accept anything new or even be persuaded by anything ever (the other one seems like she would), and has an attitude about it. I can only wonder how many people are of the same mindset, and how I fear the consequences. If only I was more social LOL!!!1 I could give better insight. Sociality is the greatest incentive, after all. Thus, anything can change with it.

[Dhsu]

Ah, I was hoping for a thread like this.

This semester I've been recruited to DJ two dance parties. I have DJed smaller events in the past, and there I was able to play a blend of styles: Reggae, rock, electro, and of course hip hop. But little did I realize just how serious the monotony of music desired was. The first time I was nearly kicked out of the DJ booth because I didn't have the twenty hip hop songs by the five artists people wanted to hear. The second time around I asked for music in advance, and it was more of the same.
Meh, did you really expect otherwise? And there's no sense complaining that you don't like the music since the point of being a DJ is to play stuff other people like.

The worst of it? My roommates and I participated in Apollo Night (a talent show based on diversity and minority performance) with Dylan's All Along the Watchtower and we were booed off. I don't think any song or genre is destructive in itself, but when people only want to hear loud, aggressive, lewd lyrics with repetitive four bar backgrounds we have a problem.
Do you have a recording of this? It's easy to just say people have no taste, which is true, but it's also possible they were more unsatisfied with the quality of the performance itself than the song you picked.

[cobaltstarfire]

I still like Propane Nightmare >:V

Honestly though that's the only Pendulum song I've ever heard, lol


and no one liked the video?

I like it...and the song, but I don't know anything about music scenes at all. It didn't sound like any D&B I've heard before, but I've heard very very little of the genre. It seems hard to find good D&B though. :(

[OverCoat]

I don't really think it's drum and bass. It's kind of like alt rock mixed with... whatever zircon calls his music now. Big Beat? :P

[Xenon Odyssey]

I don't really think it's drum and bass. It's kind of like alt rock mixed with... whatever zircon calls his music now. Big Beat? :P

Somewhere I read that people have called it 'stadium rock.'

And I liked it too.

[sgx]

I don't really think it's drum and bass. It's kind of like alt rock mixed with... whatever zircon calls his music now. Big Beat? :P

It's still a mostly DnB style drum pattern, but they aren't really doing the amount of drum sampling and loop manipulation that is the norm for DnB. Their drummer plays it all live at the show (must be worn out at the end!)


I saw them last month in a Venue that holds like 300 people and it was the shit! Really intense and everyone was huge into it.

[Equinox]

After thinking about it, listening to all of the music in this thread, and reading what people had to say, I just wanna say:

You either like it or you don't. So what.

For those of you wanting a revolution, the tide is going to start to turn pretty soon as the economy keeps falling so no worries for you.

In the mean time, keep listening to what you like, and use cool services like Pandora to find more music like that.

Word.

Massive win on Pandora. I'm a subscriber.
Also win post.

[The Pezman]

Meh, did you really expect otherwise?
Yes, actually. Dickinson is far from a random sample of the population. People here are the future leaders: smart and interested in new things. Or so I thought.
And there's no sense complaining that you don't like the music since the point of being a DJ is to play stuff other people like.
If I agree to DJ, I'll play whatever they want, especially if they're paying me $150 and tell me what they want beforehand. The issue is that I think such a limited selection further decimates people's already poor taste.
QUOTE=Dhsu;481372]Do you have a recording of this? It's easy to just say people have no taste, which is true, but it's also possible they were more unsatisfied with the quality of the performance itself than the song you picked.[/QUOTE]
No recording, but all three of us are seasoned musicians. We sounded like what you might expect good college students to sound like.

[Blue Magic]

Looks like Kanye West is doing some new experiments with his music.

I actually enjoy his new CD.

Love Lockdown is now one of my favorites:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvK6Y92JNtg

[OverCoat]

I'm still waiting for this autotune-fest to end

[Mustin]

Third grader piano song! Hooray!

[shakes head]

God, I so loved K West on paper...

then I heard his music



Do like him on songs he didn't produce, though.

[zircon]

You may think all DnB sounds the same, and thats fine, but once you hit that threshold where everything in DnB makes sense, then you'll appreciate DnB that much more.

Pretentious much? :roll: I'm a big electronic music aficionado, I just think that DNB in general is a vapid genre. Almost as bad as electro house. I've done a DNB CD myself that has already been licensed and I have plenty of tracks in my collection. There are definitely standout artists... I like London Elektricity for example. My man Dieselboy is pretty awesome too (Philadelphia!) but I'd definitely put Pendulum up there as some of the best. Really, so much of DNB is just uncreative by comparison, and I'm not saying Pendulum always isn't either, but their style is polished to a mirror shine.

[DCT]

I'm still waiting for this autotune-fest to end
Aren't we all? *sigh*

[The Derrit]

Pretentious much? :roll: I'm a big electronic music aficionado, I just think that DNB in general is a vapid genre. Almost as bad as electro house. I've done a DNB CD myself that has already been licensed and I have plenty of tracks in my collection. There are definitely standout artists... I like London Elektricity for example. My man Dieselboy is pretty awesome too (Philadelphia!) but I'd definitely put Pendulum up there as some of the best. Really, so much of DNB is just uncreative by comparison, and I'm not saying Pendulum always is either, but their style is polished to a mirror shine.

To add onto this, I'd say most of Hospital Records, which is the label that London Elektricity runs, is very solid and worth looking into. Especially dannny byrd, he's not the most creative of the bunch but i personally love his sound.

[po!]

I'm still waiting for this autotune-fest to end

you'll probably be waiting a long loooong time

[Beatdrop]

I think it's important to note (as Audity did; thanks Audity) the difference between stupidity and ignorance. Over the years, I've introduced a large number of people who just plain didn't know any better to styles of electronic music that they've ended up enjoying quite heavily. On the other hand, consciously making a decision to shut out new things because they're not popular? THAT is true stupidity. And that frame of mind never got the world anywhere.

Also, Pendulum fucking rocks. Who gives a shit if they're DnB or not? They rock. Period. In Silico is still one of my favorite CDs ever. I think I like them MORE because they've strayed outside the boundaries of DnB and done something new by merging genres. I can respect that, because that's what I do and because it keeps me interested. Disliking them because they've stopped making pure DnB is the same as what I talked about in the paragraph above: ignorance. If you choose to dislike them because the sound just isn't for you, that's completely fine. But just giving it a listen and saying "This doesn't sound like 'Another Planet'" or "This sounds like 'Streamline,' but too different" and deciding they suck is utter lameness.

[The Vagrance]

Pretentious much? :roll:

All I'm saying is that you can't listen to DnB (or electro-house for that matter) the same way as any other genre. Its not pretentious and I'm not trying to say, "you just don't understand," although I guess that could be inferred. I'm just saying that you can't listen to DnB the same way as rock music, just as you can't listen to punk music the same way as classical.

And Pendulum's production values are very nice, but the more of them I listen to the more I realize how little depth there is to their music compared to, say, Sub Focus (who could easily be labeled as a Pendulum clone). I mean, Sub Focus is also rather shallow but if listened to quite closely, it is possible to tell that he's left a tiny little bit of character in his sounds as opposed to squashing them to death. Still, both have less traditional production values than a lot of other quality DnB.

I don't mind Pendulum leaving DnB, but the sound they've developed is just bad. They're a bad DnB group and a bad rock group in one. If they were doing music just like they're Pack of Wolves remix, I'd be all over it (that is still a heavy tune), but they're not.

[Native Jovian]

I'm just saying that you can't listen to DnB the same way as rock music, just as you can't listen to punk music the same way as classical.
What the hell does that mean? There are different ways to listen to music now? I thought the process of 1) put music on, and 2) STFU and pay attention was pretty universal.

[Beatdrop]

What the hell does that mean? There are different ways to listen to music now? I thought the process of 1) put music on, and 2) STFU and pay attention was pretty universal.

Yeah, I'm pretty confused, too. This topic got WAY out of hand. I'm pretty proud.

[Mustin]

I think it's important to note (as Audity did; thanks Audity) the difference between stupidity and ignorance. Over the years, I've introduced a large number of people who just plain didn't know any better to styles of electronic music that they've ended up enjoying quite heavily. On the other hand, consciously making a decision to shut out new things because they're not popular? THAT is true stupidity.

Don't forget the opposite (e.g. a lot of people here) that consciously make the decision to shut out new things that AREN'T popular.

Either way, close minds should come with closed mouths. It's best to take in everything and make decisions for yourself. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen with most people until later in life as most young people struggle to find their place in the status quo.

[ubernym]

Please note that the following statements are in relation to "popular" music, which is defined as modern music, typically with a singer. I'm not including concert music (i.e. classical/chamber/orchestra/etc) or jazz music in my comments, because I think that it would be unfair to compare Britney Spears to Miles Davis, or Nickelback to Kronos Quartet. There is a certain amount of high-mindedness associated with "non-pop" music, and we're not having a conversation about that right now.

The mechanics of listening to music are universal, but the reasons are not. Justifications of individual taste are rarely helpful, because each of us has a unique perspective.

For example, I have a friend who likes a lot of different pop music, but the common thread that ties all of his likes/dislikes together is whether or not the music has a charismatic singer with compelling lyrics.

I also like a lot of different music, and my friend and I have many similar likes. The key difference is that I'm not as interested in lyrics and singers as he is. Sure I appreciate them, but because I'm a musician and because I'm a hobbyist in music production, my reasons for enjoying a song extend beyond good lyrics and into the realm of production values, arrangement, instrumentation, etc. I look at the whole picture, and I can enjoy a well produced, well played song even if the lyrics are shiny and vapid. My friend cannot do the same, however he can enjoy some pretty terrible guitar playing and even worse production values if the singer has something interesting to say.

Is my approach to music enjoyment better or more accurate than my friend's? Not even a little. He has some very good arguments for why lyrics matter so much, and I think I have some good arguments for why arrangement and production matter so much.

It doesn't matter.

The material point is that we're both thinking about why music matters to us, and that we've considered the reasons we enjoy it. Nobody is right, and nobody is wrong. Music is firmly an aesthetic choice, and the factors which play into our personal enjoyment of a song are as individual and unique as our personalities and the histories which formed us.

I am a musician, and can enjoy music in many forms simply for the sake of its musical qualities. My friend is a writer and a poet, and he appreciates music with a literary keen to it. My wife is an actress and a singer, and she enjoys music of the theater above all else. My dad was an aspiring filmmaker when he was a kid and is such a movie buff, and he loves movie soundtracks and any kind of music that paints a cinematic image. My brother-in-law is very athletic and loves to dance, and he tends to enjoy any song with a driving beat. Another friend of mine is a seriously good guitar player and he really loves jam bands and guitar jazz. Most visitors to this site are or were serious video gamers at some point and we enjoy hearing interpretations of musical themes from our favorite video games.

Live and let live, and if you think that some genre of music or the majority of offerings within that genre are irredeemably bad, that's fine. You're entitled to that opinion. If you start judging people who listen to something of which you don't approve, and you start calling those people names just because they don't like the same music as you, or because they have different, maybe even more superficial reasons for liking music than you do... do you really think you're accomplishing something by riding the high horse?

[q-pa]

I'm still waiting for this autotune-fest to end
Yes.
Although I'm afraid it'll be like the boyband craze and once it's over be replaced by something even worse out of the blue (in this case, rap as pop music).

I hate auto-tune because it killed the last of any sense of emotion from the songs. Just listen to 70s R&B (I like Stevie Wonder particularly) and you'll see how big the contrast is. Not all songs have to be raw (anyone who knows me knows I love electronic music), but songs that formerly would have had it now don't.

Kanye's newest work is listenable to me because he still manages to infuse emotion into it. I still wouldn't buy it the way I did The College Dropout and Graduation, but, let's just say I listened to these songs all the way through.

[Kanye]'d be fine if he:
Try to sing
Hey, he sang on "Slow Jamz" on The College Dropout and was halfway decent--for a genre parody anyway.

The worst of it? My roommates and I participated in Apollo Night (a talent show based on diversity and minority performance) with Dylan's All Along the Watchtower and we were booed off..

It just occurred to me that you should have RickRoll'd them :wink:

At least I would have ROFL'd.


Ice Cube ft. Snoop Dogg - Go to Church
Not anything amazing, just pretty catchy :)
[I] Make money off crackas
HAHAHA :lmassoff:
So true...

[Blue Magic]

Jamie Fox did most of the singing on Slow Jamz. Kanye was doing that rap/sing thing that was real popular at the time.

Come to think of it, that is what started the whole auto tuning thing anyway.

Rappers that cant sing wanted to sing. Like Snoop Dogg in "Sensual Seduction."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKz-RXSeIYA

[The Vagrance]

Rappers that cant sing wanted to sing. Like Snoop Dogg in "Sensual Seduction."

Man thats a sweet song...

[zircon]

All I'm saying is that you can't listen to DnB (or electro-house for that matter) the same way as any other genre. Its not pretentious and I'm not trying to say, "you just don't understand," although I guess that could be inferred. I'm just saying that you can't listen to DnB the same way as rock music, just as you can't listen to punk music the same way as classical.

And Pendulum's production values are very nice, but the more of them I listen to the more I realize how little depth there is to their music compared to, say, Sub Focus (who could easily be labeled as a Pendulum clone). I mean, Sub Focus is also rather shallow but if listened to quite closely, it is possible to tell that he's left a tiny little bit of character in his sounds as opposed to squashing them to death. Still, both have less traditional production values than a lot of other quality DnB.

I don't mind Pendulum leaving DnB, but the sound they've developed is just bad. They're a bad DnB group and a bad rock group in one. If they were doing music just like they're Pack of Wolves remix, I'd be all over it (that is still a heavy tune), but they're not.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on what "good" even means (not a big surprise.) I just don't like the insinuation that I'm not listening to DNB properly. I know how to listen to electronic music. I've been producing it myself on a pro/commercial level for years.

[The Derrit]

I think the vagrance didn't word it quite right but he's got a bit of a point in there. There's a lot of subtleties to dnb that don't show up unless you're putting some mind power into listening to it; plenty of my friends who have happened upon me listening to dnb just tell me "its the same thing forever" but its not, there's variations and that's what keeps it fresh. imo the fact that the variations are so subtle keeps me interested because you have to listen for it.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

All I'm saying is that you can't listen to DnB (or electro-house for that matter) the same way as any other genre. Its not pretentious and I'm not trying to say, "you just don't understand," although I guess that could be inferred. I'm just saying that you can't listen to DnB the same way as rock music, just as you can't listen to punk music the same way as classical.
Dude, are you seriously telling zircon that he doesn't know how to listen to electronic music?

Think about that for a second.

[OverCoat]

I don't think zircon knows how either :D

not enough free netlabel electronic music in his diet

[Kenobio]

You guys can't tell me which modern pop music is good or not. I'm Michael Jackson. I know what good pop music is. I've been producing it myself on a pro/commercial level for 30 years.

http://www.shabooty.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/simpsons-starkravingdad-homer-michael_1157493302.jpg

[Salluz]

I know not to try to dichotomize music, but you know...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-B03-rtob0
... if you want "good", this is not cutting it.

She can't sing nor rap, her voice is unpleasant, and from hearing this whole thing together, it wasn't organized to sound wonderful; it was a mockery created to sound sell-able. You know, I now can appreciate Soulja Boy (lol), 'cuz... this? Uh-uh, not good.

The industry doesn't care; they will do anything, as I have just proven, to brainwash and gyp the teens of America so that they can BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM and a BOOM-RRRT-CHING and TAKE YOUR MONAYYY!

[PrototypeRaptor]

You guys can't tell me which modern pop music is good or not. I'm Michael Jackson. I know what good pop music is. I've been producing it myself on a pro/commercial level for 30 years.

http://www.shabooty.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/simpsons-starkravingdad-homer-michael_1157493302.jpg

You guys can't tell me which modern pop music is good or not. I'm Johann Sebastian Bach . I know what good pop music is. I've been producing it myself on a pro/commercial level for over 200 years.

And that Kanye West dude definitely doesn't even know that a V7 is not an engine.

http://www.artlevine.com/images/bach_shades.jpg

[zircon]

Funny, but you misread my posts. I didn't say my experience gives me the right to say what's good or not, at all. In fact I said we'll agree to disagree on that. I just said that I think I know how to listen to electronic music properly (it was insinuated that I didn't) because I've been producing it for years. Obviously if I were unable to listen to it, I would have not been able to find work.

[Salluz]

The difference between the "good" and the "bad" music is this: the bad was created to condition people to have a tolerance for utterly pathetic crap that can be bought. Let's not worry about the psychology of the listeners, let's just TAKE YOUR MONAYYY!

[Shadow Wolf]

I certainly think my musical tastes are eclectic, but I don't think all pop music sucks. I decided a long time ago that if I liked a song, no matter where I heard it, I would try to find the music and download it. That goes for everything from a store intercom to internet radio to a commercial. What music you listen to is about what you prefer, and even that can get modified based on your willingness to try new things.

One time I'm standing in a Taco Bell and I hear "Where'd You Go" from Fort Minor on their overhead. I asked the guy behind the counter who it was, and he told me. I bought Fort Minor's album. It turned out Where'd You Go was a totally unique song on that album compared to the tone and style of everything else, but I ended up loving the whole thing. That was the first thing even close to hip hop/rap I ever listened to, and it opened my mind to trying other rap. I still can't stand MOST rap, but I've found that I enjoy it only when people are being honest and telling their stories, instead of this stupid farce about all the bitches they wanna rape and kill. Rap is about feeling and flow of emotions, and I've found certain songs from Shinoda to Akon to Eminem that I love. Honestly one of the best examples of heartfelt rap I've ever heard is 'Memories Frozen in Time' from this here very site.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of generic crappy music out there, especially catering to the Disney/tweenybopper crowd, but I think it's good to be willing to recognize and accept good music wherever you find it, regardless of your biases.

In other news:

BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM and a BOOM-RRRT-CHING and TAKE YOUR MONAYYY!

My brother listens to that song, I have no idea what it is. Not only do I find it amusing, but that is seriously the most creative percussion I've heard in a song in years.

[Salluz]

My brother listens to that song, I have no idea what it is. Not only do I find it amusing, but that is seriously the most creative percussion I've heard in a song in years.
I'll give the beatman some credit, but never to the sing/rap girl nor the industry who signed her. Hey, let's boycott crappy industries!

[Sole Signal]

Fort Minor
Mike Shinoda's stuff is amazing. Several of the Linkin Park instrumentals he did a few years back are fantastic, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9UI-m-Qd8s
Huge fan of Pendulum, too. I was hooked ever since I heard the interplay of orchestral work and big beats in Slam, and the guitar work in Girl in the Fire. Also gotta love Hybrid's mix of orchestral and breaks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z0CiLbUvi0

[po!]

There's a lot of subtleties to dnb that don't show up unless you're putting some mind power into listening to it

there's a lot of subtleties to every kind of music, it's not just DnB.

and what's wrong with not putting mind power into listening to music? i've always thought there were 2 sides to listening to music... listening with your heart and listening with your brain. i feel like listening with your heart, just feeling the music, is the most basic and primitive response to music and is always a part of the musical experience. listening with your brain may or may not come into play much, depending on how you listen to music. but i think it's not a requirement of listening to music the "correct" way.. only engaging the heart is

[q-pa]

... if you want "good", this is not cutting it.

She can't sing nor rap, her voice is unpleasant, and from hearing this whole thing together, it wasn't organized to sound wonderful; it was a mockery created to sound sell-able. You know, I now can appreciate Soulja Boy (lol), 'cuz... this? Uh-uh, not good.

The industry doesn't care; they will do anything, as I have just proven, to brainwash and gyp the teens of America

I liked MIA's first album (2005's Arular) a lot. Electro-meets-dancehall style and creative all around IMO.
Her current one has a few good tracks ("Bamboo Banga" and "Jimmy" are my favorites), but it has more filler that didn't move me and I don't like "Paper Planes" much at all. Gives people the wrong idea about her... Add I will agree with you that the emphasis on her voice in that track is annoying.

[Shadow Wolf]

Stuff about Fort Minor.

Kenji was an amazing song. That's what I'm talking about when I say 'real' rap. Shinoda literally said somewhere in the song that he had a dream that he had to make this song, and he did. We got the privilege of hearing about a unique and amazing part of his family's history, instead of another rapper telling us how he's gonna take over Compton via martial force and screw everything that moves.

[q-pa]

Well, Grammy nominations are out (http://www.comcast.net/articles/music/20081204/Music.Grammy.Nominations/) and guess who's on top.
Lil' Wayne--whom I still don't understand why he's so great; decent maybe but not classic--has 8 nods, including Album of the Year.
He's competing with, among others, Jay-Z's "American Gangster" (which wasn't bad IMO, thouhg I still prefer this (http://www.whiteeyedtigers.com/5.html)) and Lupe Fiasco's "The Cool," for Rap Album.

Coldplay has 7 nominations; make of that what you will.
Oh, and "Paper Planes" was nominated for Record of the Year...

[SLyGeN]

The original poster should have known this would degrade into a "post your favorite music" thread, complemented with "flame others' musical preference".

I've noticed that the vast majority of young listeners listen to music for the words, and not for the music itself. "Hate black metal because it just sounds like graah." "Can't listen to anything that isn't in English." "Classical music doesn't "speak" to me; it's boring."

I tell them to go to a damn poetry reading, and they can get out of my car if they don't like what's being played.


Back on topic, good music is only in Aeolian, Harmonic Minor, Phrygian, or Locrian. Major key tonality is only allowed in phrygian or harmonic minor context. Diminished 5ths/Augmented 4ths are a requirement; brownie points if you also use a minor 9th.

[Cyril the Wolf]

Back on topic, good music is only in Aeolian, Harmonic Minor, Phrygian, or Locrian. Major key tonality is only allowed in phrygian or harmonic minor context. Diminished 5ths/Augmented 4ths are a requirement; brownie points if you also use a minor 9th.

Back up your claimz plz.

Now that is rather general.

Ionian songs are just as good as Aeolian songs (though I must confess I do prefer the latter) it really all depends on if the music is well thought out, not what mode its in.

Diminished fifths? You need the tritone to have a good piece of music? Are you being ridiculous or is this just your preference?

[SLyGeN]

That whole paragraph was sarcasm out the ass. It's just a list of my preferred sounds.

I hate Ionian, Dorian, Lydian, and Mixo. Especially when a good Aeolian piece ends on an Ionian note. Makes my blood run cold and boil.

[The Vagrance]

The industry doesn't care; they will do anything, as I have just proven, to brainwash and gyp the teens of America so that they can BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM and a BOOM-RRRT-CHING and TAKE YOUR MONAYYY!

She's actually fairly intelligent (albiet, a diva) and the song has a legitimate message behind it, which is that our nation (and others, surely) have the idea that immigrants (such as her) bring harm and malice to society. The chorus is sarcastic in nature.

[Xenon Odyssey]

Especially when a good Aeolian piece ends on an Ionian note. Makes my blood run cold and boil.

Picardy third WOOOOOOOOO

Spanish Phrygian > Phrygian btw

And Major 9ths are THE shit. Note the captials.

[SLyGeN]

Picardy third WOOOOOOOOO

Spanish Phrygian > Phrygian btw

Hate picardy thirds.

Just looked up Spanish Phrygian. Cool sound, apparently Wherever I May Roam was done in that mode. One of the first songs I actually liked outside of video game music.

[maniacodepressif]

Contemporary pop music is usually hated by "underground" musician.
20 years after, it's a classic to "new" musicians. Hell I remember a DoD listening party we're a 70's disco song was super cool but a contemporary pop one sucked. If those same musician would in the 70's I bet they would say disco sucks. Some people just hate all pop music just for the sake of not being part of the mass.

Or, many musicians that like a semi-underground band but if that band becomes super popular, they will start to hate it.

For myself, I don't mind pop music but I don't enjoy more then 10% of it. Pop music is mostly what I do. That doesn't mean it's not original, it just means I want music to please to a larger audience while still remaining true to what I like.

[Salluz]

I liked MIA's first album (2005's Arular) a lot. Electro-meets-dancehall style and creative all around IMO.
Her current one has a few good tracks ("Bamboo Banga" and "Jimmy" are my favorites), but it has more filler that didn't move me and I don't like "Paper Planes" much at all. Gives people the wrong idea about her... Add I will agree with you that the emphasis on her voice in that track is annoying.
Oh really? I never heard of her apart from her hiphop song.

She's actually fairly intelligent (albiet, a diva) and the song has a legitimate message behind it, which is that our nation (and others, surely) have the idea that immigrants (such as her) bring harm and malice to society. The chorus is sarcastic in nature.
Honestly, I never thought that she was stupid, just her song. Oh, so it actually had a message to it? Heh, the street kids don't know that! Perhaps she could have announced it. Mmkay, even though I still don't prefer her horrible sing/rapping, it's easier to hear now that I'm aware of her message.

[The Derrit]

Kenji was an amazing song. That's what I'm talking about when I say 'real' rap. Shinoda literally said somewhere in the song that he had a dream that he had to make this song, and he did. We got the privilege of hearing about a unique and amazing part of his family's history, instead of another rapper telling us how he's gonna take over Compton via martial force and screw everything that moves.

Completely agree, this song is excellent cause he speaks from his background and you can tell its something that means something to him.

Cigarettes is another song by him that I think breaks the mold, mostly because it lays out on the table what a whole lot of rap albums are about. He seems to actually dislike that it's the way the industry works, and its refresing to hear him talking about stuff like how Kenji and Cigarettes do on his tracks.

there's a lot of subtleties to every kind of music, it's not just DnB.

and what's wrong with not putting mind power into listening to music? i've always thought there were 2 sides to listening to music... listening with your heart and listening with your brain. i feel like listening with your heart, just feeling the music, is the most basic and primitive response to music and is always a part of the musical experience. listening with your brain may or may not come into play much, depending on how you listen to music. but i think it's not a requirement of listening to music the "correct" way.. only engaging the heart is

I don't disagree with that, some people like their music to just flow and have it be right out there. I personally like to be able to sit down and listen through a Dieselboy mix or a High Contrast CD or whatever, and appreciate the subtleties of how it's put together. I know they're not extreme, and many people have issues with on a genre level, but I like it that way, it can be nice and I enjoy it.

And zircon knows how to listen to electronic so its not a matter of listening to it wrong.

[Jaybell]

Bump de bump.

So I was in a music store and the radio announced they were gonna play a Kanye West song and I was all sad. I hadn't heard much by Kanye, but I've been selectively avoiding him, mostly because of my disdain for Pop and Rap.

But this is what played. (ignore the video, I have no idea either.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVZX-W3vo9I

And I-I like it? For a pop song, it's incredibly jarring and isolated-sounding, with the autotune vocals, and the drums and all that. Definitely not what I was expecting, at all.

[zircon]

I was actually going to comment on this myself. Kanye West is a really creative producer. He specifically said with this album that he doesn't care about sales - and his fans have generally reacted poorly, as I understand it. He doesn't care that other people use Autotune - he heard it and said he liked the sound, so he's using it. I like that attitude a lot. No stereotypical hip hop claps, kicks, and snares here. Just unique production.

I've heard another track from the album, "Robocop", which is also quite creative. It uses dry orchestral strings, distorted 808 percussion, and an unusually major tonality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krxnf4WG4qA

[q-pa]

I was actually going to comment on this myself. Kanye West is a really creative producer. He specifically said with this album that he doesn't care about sales - and his fans have generally reacted poorly, as I understand it. He doesn't care that other people use Autotune - he heard it and said he liked the sound, so he's using it. I like that attitude a lot. No stereotypical hip hop claps, kicks, and snares here. Just unique production.

What? Kanye ego-less? Who would have thought?
j/k


Anyway, I may have already mentined this, but when I first heard the singles "Love Lockdown" & "Heartless" in 30-second-previews on iTunes I was all WTF? :dstrbd: But after I got to hear the whole song I do agree with zircon that it's creative & good production.
I really miss getting to preview a whole song in stores like the Virgin MegaStores, but that's another story.

The album reivew in the Village Voice (http://www.villagevoice.com/2008-11-26/music/on-kanye-west-s-bitter-bone-chilling-808s-heartbreak/) really put it in perspective I think:
It's also his superstar-freakout album: his Low, his Trans, his Kid A. The one where he decides that frozen remoteness is the only thing that makes sense.
...
Kanye is also the first of the post-T-Pain masses to use AutoTune as something other than an ear-grabbing gimmick. On Heartbreak, it's a distancing effect, an opportunity to push his emo bellyaching to spectral levels.

BTW, who saw Kanye West's performance on SNL last night? Weird, no? With those giant video screens, silhouettes and crazy dancing... I liked it.

[Cerrax]

Wow. I've always appreciated Kanye West, but that "Robocop" is pretty damn cool.

I hate Autotune with a passion and I have only used it a few times. Its actually is quite interesting to use in an industrial/metal song.

[Skullbullet]

I guess I'll take a break from downloading piano pieces for some rap recommendations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm7dZe0b8Rk&feature=related

Public Enemy is classic, in my book. Found them about the same time as Immortal Technique; I wonder why I had never heard of them before. Catchy stuff, and lots of great lyrics too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r0KpWMNxnM

Everybody needs some Jedi Mind Tricks in their lives, IMHO. This song in particular is up with Fort Minor's "Kenji" - the first verse is primarily an overview of Vietnam soldiers, while the second verse is RA the Rugged Man in the head of his dad, who actually fought in the Vietnam War.

I also find Immortal Technique to be a superior producer, but a lot of his songs are extreme leftist politics which even I (raving liberal that I am) do not agree with.

1. Put it on 2. STFU and pay attention

How many people do you honestly know that take step #2 anymore? Most of my friends song-surf when they get a new CD instead of listening to it all the way through. If more people actually paid attention to the songs they listen to, more people might actually have opinions on the music they buy and listen to.

Addendum: I hate the phrase "listen to". It tastes funny in my mouth. :(

[Beatdrop]

The original poster should have known this would degrade into a "post your favorite music" thread, complemented with "flame others' musical preference".

That was KIND OF the point... Sort of.

There hasn't really been any flaming going on. Just discussion. And arguing. But they're similar.

And the idea WAS to post music. Not necessarily just ANYTHING, but pop music of some kind or another, and most people have done just that.

Sooooooooooo...

I think it worked out pretty well. kthx.

[Salluz]

As an experiment, I've tried introducing OCR tunes to a number of my students, and I find that very frequently their reaction depends on who's around. When I have one girl over by the stereo and the rest are over at the bars on the other side of the gym, they'll say some of these mixes are the coolest music they've ever heard -- I have a number of girls doing floor routines to remixes this season.
Hey Geoff, hook me up with one of those floor routine girls. Quit playin', man, I know you're online, lol!

[Blue Magic]

Hey Geoff, hook me up with one of those floor routine girls. Quit playin', man, I know you're online, lol!

I think he works with KIDS.

[Salluz]

I think he works with KIDS.
Ooooooooooh...K. NO THANKS.

I was kidding anyway, lol, he knows I'm not serious.

[Kenobio]

i thought you were being serious