Nobuo Uematsu, YOU THIEF! I KEEL YOU!

[Nekofrog]

I AM ON TO YOU, NOBUO.

I can't believe, in the ten years since it was created, that I did not notice this before, but Final Fantasy 7's "On That Day, Five Years Ago" is essentially just the Batman theme.

Not the TV theme, but Danny Elfman's Batman theme, just in a different key.

WARNING. WHAT HAS BEEN HEARD CANNOT BE UNHEARD.

The song in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlnk5ThilSo

And Elfman's Batman theme:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRZAk2rfESU

Your honor, I rest my case!

[NNY]

Holy crap. You're right.

I don't think it needs to go to court though. I think Batman is perfectly capable of beating up that spiky haired faggot himself.

[LuketheXjesse]

When and how did you freakin' pick this up?

[Nekofrog]

I was actually listening to the VotLS track for this song when it just suddenly hit me. Now I will never hear it without thinking "I'm BATMAN"

[Bleck]

That FF7 song is actually the main leitmotif of the entire game.

[Nekofrog]

So... FF7 = Batman?

[Bleck]

Exactly. ALSO TEN

[kitty]

I hear the similarity on a small scale, but I think that may just be a case of "hearing what one wants to hear" thing.

[Wacky]

I don't know about you but the Batman theme is perfect for the Dark Knight series also. I have no idea why they didn't want to keep it.

[Nekofrog]

I hear the similarity on a small scale, but I think that may just be a case of "hearing what one wants to hear" thing.

It's almost exactly the same melody.

[Aninymouse]

Hahaha, good catch Neko.

[cobaltstarfire]

It could just be a coincidence, I remember writing a song once and then hearing something with a very similar motif a few weeks later.

[RoeTaKa]

Nobuo is Batman!

[zircon]

The tonality is pretty different. However, the Elfman theme actually quite a ripoff of a Schubert symphony written hundreds of years ago. Here's proof - I made this comparison to a part of the Credits theme from Advent Children (which is just the FF7 main theme in a minor tonality anyway), but it applies here:

http://zirconstudios.com/music/random/schubff7.mp3

This is more damning imo ;)

[Sil]

Elfman's Batman theme is taken from Bernard Herrmann's 1959 score to Journey to the Center of the Earth. I think Elfman admitted this in an interview but it was a while ago.

[K.B.]

Could someone please contact Mr. Elfman? That's a pretty sweet remix; we should ask him to submit it.





BTW: there's a lot more to Uematsu's tune than just that bit, and that bit is so small that it's reasonable to think it's been used more than once before... see Pachelbel's Cannon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM) (shamelessly stolen from an older thread).

EDIT: I post too slowly. See previous two posts.

[cobaltstarfire]

I LOVE the Patchabel rant.

And it's so terribly true, always fun to pick out that particular chord progression in songs. Cause then I get to run to one of my friends and go "look look!" /nerd

[Cerrax]

The correlation is iffy to me, because the version of the Batman theme he uses as the example is a variation of the actual Elfman Batman theme. The true Elfman theme is an upbeat sort of march tune with a completely different rhythm and it changes the sound of the song a lot. Much how like how the Elder Scrolls main theme sounds a lot like Pirates of the Caribbean if you use the right varion of both, because they have similar notes

[LuketheXjesse]

I was actually listening to the VotLS track for this song when it just suddenly hit me. Now I will never hear it without thinking "I'm BATMAN"

You're really observant.

Also your sig to the right creeps me out :puppyeyes:

[Escariot]

What I hear:
FF7:
A, B, C, G, Gb

Batman:
B, Db, D, G, Gb

[Alexis]

In most western music there are a total of 12 different notes to choose from in order write music with. Some music is going to eventually end up sounding the same.

[zyko]

pachalbel rant is one of my life's inspirations

[1337 1]

I hear the similarity on a small scale, but I think that may just be a case of "hearing what one wants to hear" thing.

Case in point is this "misheard" song. WARNING: you will never be able to play brawl again without thinking of it like this:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=IXLlBLq82fI

[Salluz]

Case in point is this "misheard" song. WARNING: you will never be able to play brawl again without thinking of it like this:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=IXLlBLq82fI
AHAHAHAHAHA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj5xq-VQBTU

[DrumUltimA]

What I hear:
FF7:
A, B, C, G, Gb

Batman:
B, Db, D, G, Gb

escariot is actually right on. The only thing those two motifs have in common (aside from the G and Gb) is the contour. The reason you listen to them back to back and go HEY WAIT A MINUTE is because of the G and Gb. But in reality, final fantasy is using that Gb (or as I prefer to think, F#) as a modal mixture, going from a minor i chord to a major IV (modally dorian), whereas the batman, just for that motif, is staying in a purely natural minor state (modally aeolian).

Honestly I am not familiar with the soundtrack to batman with anywhere near the same intimacy as I am with FF7, but even though I hear similarities between the two tracks, I hardly think nobou was "stealing" from danny elfman any more than any composer steals from any composer. In fact, I think coincidence is just as likely a culprit here as theft is. The FF7 motif, as mentioned earlier, is a motif used THROUGHOUT the game (I think Aeris' theme is the strongest example of this motif). Listening to just the batman track that Neko posted, the motif is used melodically much differently than the FF7 motif. Though I do admit, I hear bits of jenova in the batman theme opening ;)

The other thing is that there is only so much music that can be contained in the genre of cheesy japanese video game music, so it's practically impossible to avoid sounding like other cheese incidental music without making a bold move. So all in all, I don't think nobou stole from danny.

But I still think nobou rehashes his music all the time ;)

[Nekofrog]

escariot is actually right on. The only thing those two motifs have in common (aside from the G and Gb) is the contour. The reason you listen to them back to back and go HEY WAIT A MINUTE is because of the G and Gb. But in reality, final fantasy is using that Gb (or as I prefer to think, F#) as a modal mixture, going from a minor i chord to a major IV (modally dorian), whereas the batman, just for that motif, is staying in a purely natural minor state (modally aeolian).

Honestly I am not familiar with the soundtrack to batman with anywhere near the same intimacy as I am with FF7, but even though I hear similarities between the two tracks, I hardly think nobou was "stealing" from danny elfman any more than any composer steals from any composer. In fact, I think coincidence is just as likely a culprit here as theft is. The FF7 motif, as mentioned earlier, is a motif used THROUGHOUT the game (I think Aeris' theme is the strongest example of this motif). Listening to just the batman track that Neko posted, the motif is used melodically much differently than the FF7 motif. Though I do admit, I hear bits of jenova in the batman theme opening ;)

The other thing is that there is only so much music that can be contained in the genre of cheesy japanese video game music, so it's practically impossible to avoid sounding like other cheese incidental music without making a bold move. So all in all, I don't think nobou stole from danny.

But I still think nobou rehashes his music all the time ;)

Shut up and do more dramatic takes for our Lufia remix, jackass >:D

[Thin Crust]

Neko, I'm thinking you're full of it.

[zircon]

The tonality is pretty different. However, the Elfman theme actually quite a ripoff of a Schubert symphony written hundreds of years ago. Here's proof - I made this comparison to a part of the Credits theme from Advent Children (which is just the FF7 main theme in a minor tonality anyway), but it applies here:

http://zirconstudios.com/music/random/schubff7.mp3

This is more damning imo ;)

:( Someone respond plz

[Hemophiliac]

good composers borrow, great composers steal

[Animae]

escariot is actually right on. The only thing those two motifs have in common (aside from the G and Gb) is the contour. The reason you listen to them back to back and go HEY WAIT A MINUTE is because of the G and Gb. But in reality, final fantasy is using that Gb (or as I prefer to think, F#) as a modal mixture, going from a minor i chord to a major IV (modally dorian), whereas the batman, just for that motif, is staying in a purely natural minor state (modally aeolian).

Honestly I am not familiar with the soundtrack to batman with anywhere near the same intimacy as I am with FF7, but even though I hear similarities between the two tracks, I hardly think nobou was "stealing" from danny elfman any more than any composer steals from any composer. In fact, I think coincidence is just as likely a culprit here as theft is. The FF7 motif, as mentioned earlier, is a motif used THROUGHOUT the game (I think Aeris' theme is the strongest example of this motif). Listening to just the batman track that Neko posted, the motif is used melodically much differently than the FF7 motif. Though I do admit, I hear bits of jenova in the batman theme opening ;)

The other thing is that there is only so much music that can be contained in the genre of cheesy japanese video game music, so it's practically impossible to avoid sounding like other cheese incidental music without making a bold move. So all in all, I don't think nobou stole from danny.

But I still think nobou rehashes his music all the time ;)
Umm... I'm not entirely sure where you hear the FF7 motif in Aeris theme. We are talking about the theme heard one the world map(major scale) and the theme in the example that OP posted(minor scale variation), aren't we?

However, I agree that Nobuo sometimes rehashes himself. He likes to use "broken"(not if that is the english term) chords in ascending patterns, slow arpeggios, especially with the harp(prelude, aeris theme, Aria de mezzo carattere, Bittersweet Romance(IX) and many more). The intro(3 first notes) to Aria de mezzo carattere is identical with the three first notes in Aeris Theme.

And On That Day Five Years Ago sounds nothing like the theme from Batman.

Robo's Theme however is PURE plagiarism on Rick Astleys Never Gonna Give You Up. :nicework:

[ProjectSpam]

:( Someone respond plz

Yeah, those two themes are more similar than the Batman/FF7 themes in particular. Kinda hard to differentiate which is which.

I didn't hear much similarity to FF7 beyond the opening of Elfman's piece.

[SciRe]

a lot of songs use the same chord progressions, and frequently similar rythms. Its just coincidental, not necessarily a ripoff. In music with a lot of long tones (like the two themes in question) the similarities just become that more obvious. Still, its usually just a coincidence. with all of the music in the world, there are bound to be similar songs.

for example...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ20N6syuwc&feature=related

all the buzz around this song aside, its a good example of the same kind of similarities

[Animae]

a lot of songs use the same chord progressions, and frequently similar rythms. Its just coincidental, not necessarily a ripoff. In music with a lot of long tones (like the two themes in question) the similarities just become that more obvious. Still, its usually just a coincidence. with all of the music in the world, there are bound to be similar songs.

for example...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ20N6syuwc&feature=related

all the buzz around this song aside, its a good example of the same kind of similarities

It was irony on my part, man! :wink:

[42]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=IXLlBLq82fI

It
all
makes
sense now
8-O

[K.B.]

Yasunori Mitsuda, YOU THIEF! I KEEL YOU! :wink:

It's ok, just let it out.

Thanks Animae and SciRe, I'd heard of/seen that video before... I laughed so hard I nearly cried.

[DrumUltimA]

Umm... I'm not entirely sure where you hear the FF7 motif in Aeris theme. We are talking about the theme heard one the world map(major scale) and the theme in the example that OP posted(minor scale variation), aren't we?

Oops! Yes, that's the one I'm thinking of. Thanks!

[SciRe]

Haha, My bad Animae. I actually missed your post when i was reading through. Didn't realize you had already mentioned that video.

[dPaladin]

Robo's Theme however is PURE plagiarism on Rick Astleys Never Gonna Give You Up. :nicework:
Furthermore:

Chrono Trigger Trial (this is pretty clearly an intentional homage): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCMHmDnfD6I
Megaman Elecman Stage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1V3l7Ibezg
Dr. Mario Fever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vf26cRtG_w

[LuckyXIII]

Furthermore:

Megaman Elecman Stage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1V3l7Ibezg



Whoah - I always thought Elecman was a ripoff of Journey's "Faithfully" but this song makes more sense.

[zircon]

Wow, that Dr. Mario one is really close.

[OverCoat]

Patchabel
pachalbel
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5289/unfcq3.png

[zircon]

I'm using that image next time I NO someone

[cobaltstarfire]

There's also a bit in one of the Dr. Mario songs that I've heard in a Jazz tune before, although the Jazz song escapes me, (well I never actually knew the name, since I wasn't in the Highschool Jazzband, but it was one of their main songs one year).

[MojoHamster]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SBKOpFVggr8

vs

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4GYu02FrcAw

[friendlyHunter]

Wow, that Dr. Mario one is really close.
Hmmm, I actually think it's a bit of a stretch. Doesn't help that the songs have two completely different feels.

I like the Elecman and Street Fighter ones though ^_^


And since this hasn't been posted yet:

Romeo & Juliet theme (1968 )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOnmljoC6PQ&feature=related

vs

Ninja Gaiden
(The song is at 6:34 - 7:19)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e23LwxQolpc

[Mustin]

Could someone please contact Mr. Elfman? That's a pretty sweet remix; we should ask him to submit it.





BTW: there's a lot more to Uematsu's tune than just that bit, and that bit is so small that it's reasonable to think it's been used more than once before... see Pachelbel's Cannon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM) (shamelessly stolen from an older thread).

EDIT: I post too slowly. See previous two posts.



This is the exact reason I hate mash ups. Yeah, there are only 13 notes people. Shit's gonna fit with other shit.

Hemo - who said that quote - you know you gotta say who said it, y'all...


zirocn, good catch on the Batman, though I do believe Elfman admitted to lifting it from Herman, as he did much of his work - mostly his first (and my favourite) major work, Pee-Wee's Big Adventure.

This is a great thread.

, Batman!

[anosou]

Now I must admit I haven't read through everything but I'm pretty sure Uematsu took some TV-commercial and did like.. prelude or something like that :O

and a bigger thing: who cares? :D In the 16th and 17th century borrowing was considered standard and it wasn't until the mid-18th century (romanticism) that individuality became a GOOD thing. :tomatoface:

[dPaladin]

the mid-17th century (romanticism)
wut

Also, you can make a case for FFV's theme being styled after Tonight from West Side Story. I can't remember if I posted that one or not.

[anosou]

wut

Also, you can make a case for FFV's theme being styled after Tonight from West Side Story. I can't remember if I posted that one or not.

ROFL, I forgot how you use blablath century, for us 20th century is "1900-talet" or directly translated, 19th century. Sorry for the confusion

[The Author]

Hmmm, I actually think it's a bit of a stretch. Doesn't help that the songs have two completely different feels.

I like the Elecman and Street Fighter ones though ^_^


And since this hasn't been posted yet:

Romeo & Juliet theme (1968 )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOnmljoC6PQ&feature=related

vs

Ninja Gaiden
(The song is at 6:34 - 7:19)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e23LwxQolpc
Made more blatant by : http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00867/

[Hemophiliac]

i think the ninja gaiden one isn't that close at all the first few notes are the same but it digresses quickly.

i have a remix i'm working on right now where i was just using a C minor chord and i had to curse John Williams' name because the order and rhythm of the notes i used was Vader's theme. completely unintentional and i didn't realize it until afterwards when i listened to the track rendered.

[Tricklozen]

In the spirit of comparing songs that share a similar motif and/or similar characteristics:

1) "Somebody told us that the refrain in this remix (http://www.remix64.com/tune_219900.html) [Sweet] somewhat resembles an old 80'ies pop tune. This must be purely coincidential, and we have yet to find which tune this is. [Eurythmics - Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)] We'll get back to you if we find it."

Eurythmics - Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQHrspjw4aA)

I don't know. Was this a coincidence? With the refrain and title as well? I mean, I've talked about ideas with people before, who at some later time contacted me introducing "their new idea," which was the idea I talked to them about. Don't forgive my skepticism.


2) You could also do a James Horner (rip from yourself):

James Horner - Bicentennial Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quINm_8HrKg)
James Horner - A Beautiful Mind (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoFq8wlSyBo)


3) It's easy to find recurring parts in songs by Uematsu (which I've probably heard the most of in that realm of music), even parts that can be copied and pasted into later songs (the first that comes to mind is taking the bassline from Seymour's battle music (FF X), using it with the lead chorus of The man with the machine-gun (FF VIII)). I guess that's a consequence of making short compositions--a number of them--which are supposed to be repeatable.


4) I think the similarity was already mentioned (Rick Astley) about Robo's Theme:
Yasunori Mitsuda - Robo's Theme/Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ20N6syuwc)
..which could partly be similar to:
Kim Wilde - You Came (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqCLGWz9-SE)

[K.B.]

RE MojoHamster: I want you... to want Ken!

RE Overcoat: don't click here (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15795). It's just too funny. (for the record i love our judges they are the greatest please don't ban me)

RE: Uematsu-haters: Celes --> Aeris, Compression Of Time --> Freya's Theme. But hey, who can fault the guy for stealing from himself? I do it all the time... sweet I just found forty bucks in a wallet!

And RE everyone with musical knowledge: I like to think the case is that I simply can't sing and not that I'm tone deaf, but I could be wrong... if the Pachelbel ranter isn't right I'm sorry for my ignorance. But I do not apologize for any derailing of this thread I may have caused because I've enjoyed every second of these videos!

[EdgeCrusher]

It's not a "composer is a rip off artist" thread without Bobby Prince and Doom 1 and 2. :D

[K.B.]

I would like to apologize for the idiocy of my last post; it was done under the influence of stupidity. I read it now and I feel like I owe the world a walk of shame for it. Well, aside from the Cheap Trick joke; I'm still proud of that.

I was enjoying the comparisons, they should continue! Enthusiastic bump!

Here's mine, and I can't believe I didn't remember this until now.

Exhibit A: Top Gear (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5leQ_7txdJA)

Exhibit B: Muse - Bliss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EWQAID_dfs)

I'd say definitely inspired by, and not just with the arpeggios. Oh wait, I'm doing this backwards...

[Drack]

Robo's Theme however is PURE plagiarism on Rick Astleys Never Gonna Give You Up. :nicework:

Just thought I'd like to toss in this video layering the two songs (If it says not available, click the link in the title): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ20N6syuwc

Also this link about Mitsuda's commentary on the issue (http://kotaku.com/5102689/chrono-trigger-composer-never-heard-of-rick-astley-robos-theme-completely-original).

[dPaladin]

I think it's pretty likely that Mitsuda heard the song, forgot about it, and unconsciously mimicked it. Of course he would say he'd never heard it no matter what. Unless he were to claim it as an intentional homage, but really now.

[Animae]

I think it's pretty likely that Mitsuda heard the song, forgot about it, and unconsciously mimicked it. Of course he would say he'd never heard it no matter what. Unless he were to claim it as an intentional homage, but really now.

Oh come on! They are not identical. The three cords that largely match are not unusual at all. S-D-Ts is among the most used chords in music, and Mitsuda use them in a lot of his other tunes(Main theme of BOTH Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, Another World ~ Guldove, Song of Feeling etc.)

He also uses a lot of sus4 that usually gets resolved in major chords.

[I-n-j-i-n]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SBKOpFVggr8

vs

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4GYu02FrcAw

Between that and the Jet theme in Guile's stage, I think that was one of the first ones I knew for sure. And the Sonic 3 ones, which I'm surprised people found out so late. Then again, I played Michael Jackson Moonwalker and Sonic 3 back to back.

And I watched Top Gun right around playing SF2... Very easy to pick up after that.

As for the Aeris theme having the motif, the music rises for the most part and falls down a bit. Same FF7 music motif.

[wiredzombie]

i...i just dont know what to think anymore

[darkmaster987]

3) It's easy to find recurring parts in songs by Uematsu (which I've probably heard the most of in that realm of music), even parts that can be copied and pasted into later songs (the first that comes to mind is taking the bassline from Seymour's battle music (FF X), using it with the lead chorus of The man with the machine-gun (FF VIII)).

Not a coincidence. The intro to Seymour's battle theme also sounds very similar to another track from FF8.

[Jam Stunna]

This seems relevant to this thread:
http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=9190

[dPaladin]

This seems relevant to this thread:
http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=9190

Yeah, I remember hearing about that awhile back. It gave me a big case of the sads since that was such a great theme.

[cobaltstarfire]

This seems relevant to this thread:
http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=9190

That's kind of sad, cause the theme that it was apparently stolen from doesn't sound very much at all like the MGS theme at all. I mean I can hear bits that are vaguely similar in some areas but that's about it.

[dPaladin]

Sorry for the bump but this is too cool not to post, but I don't think it's enough for its own thread.

Shostakovich Symph 5, movt 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogJFXqYEYd8&feature=related

Mother 3, Porky's Theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5CjB16gM94&feature=related

Obviously on purpose, which makes it awesome.

[sefirosu]

The tonality is pretty different. However, the Elfman theme actually quite a ripoff of a Schubert symphony written hundreds of years ago. Here's proof - I made this comparison to a part of the Credits theme from Advent Children (which is just the FF7 main theme in a minor tonality anyway), but it applies here:

http://zirconstudios.com/music/random/schubff7.mp3

This is more damning imo ;)

I hear it in the first 10 notes.
The similarity is there but what if, as a previous poster mentioned, it's just coincidence ("with only 12 tones, some music is going to end up sounding alike")
or what if Mr. Uematsu used that particular chord progression to base this music.
Maybe he grew up a fan of Schubert's work and wanted to incorporate some of that into his own work.
Who knows?

[The Orichalcon]

Final Fantasy X - Hopeless Desire (from 0:38.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQq2nMLeSDU

Greensleeves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ItNxpwChE

[zircon]

I hear it in the first 10 notes.
The similarity is there but what if, as a previous poster mentioned, it's just coincidence ("with only 12 tones, some music is going to end up sounding alike")
or what if Mr. Uematsu used that particular chord progression to base this music.
Maybe he grew up a fan of Schubert's work and wanted to incorporate some of that into his own work.
Who knows?

Yeah, I mean I wouldn't call the people who did that credits arrangement plagiarizers. I don't think it was Uematsu, anyway. But still, it's not just the chord progression. It's the melody, instrumentation, tempo, and key. They're all the same :P

[Cerrax]

Sorry for the bump but this is too cool not to post, but I don't think it's enough for its own thread.

Shostakovich Symph 5, movt 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogJFXqYEYd8&feature=related

Mother 3, Porky's Theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5CjB16gM94&feature=related

Obviously on purpose, which makes it awesome.

Hell yes. I love shostakovich and mother and one of the first things that popped into my head when I heard Porky's theme was "huh. this sounds kinda like shosty five"

[Gario]

Damnit, dPaladin, why did you bump this thread? You just allowed Nekofrog to ruin the FF7 song for yet another listener... namely me. I will agree that they both sound like Schubert's symphony, though.

Now, who would win if they fought - Batman, Sephiroth or Schubert? That would be a simple way to settle who's song it really is.

[Tensei]

The Beatles - Norwegian Wood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kar0pIIjK9U


Chrono Trigger - Guardia Millenial Fair

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4L8cq2vrlk

Please tell me I'm not the only one hearing this! ;_;

[sefirosu]

Now, who would win if they fought - Batman, Sephiroth or Schubert? That would be a simple way to settle who's song it really is.

Good idea. Let Mr. Uematsu have the song, 'cause Sephiroth would own hands-down. Masamune and the power of Jenova FTW.