So the Touhou 12 Demo came out...

[Schwaltzvald]

a while back and while there some new stuff added to the game play (ufos for extra points) one thing from the game demo blew my god damned mind. Third stage of the game gave a whole new meaning to me to the term bro-fist.

I did not expect it to happen.

The vid here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beJRqH8u21Q&feature=channel_page) shows what I'm talking about...

My first reaction to it when i saw it was "WHAT THE SHIT!? BULLSHIT!!"

makes me wonder how the full game will be... :lol:

[Arian]

...and some people think resident evil 4 is hard... jezus! This game can only be won by robots!

[Schwaltzvald]

...and some people think resident evil 4 is hard... jezus! This game can only be won by robots!

If you time your bomb use right in certain situations this along with many past titles of the series allow you to emerge unscathed. However there an incentive to getting through it all without any bomb use (bombless runs). Mainly its a higher score, but also in more later titles it's capturing spell cards.

The brofists however make me both laugh and rage. :lol:

[zircon]

One thing that irritates me about games like this is that the graphic for the ship doesn't represent the actual hitbox. Why? Why not make the whole ship smaller to fit the hitbox?

[Schwaltzvald]

One thing that irritates me about games like this is that the graphic for the ship doesn't represent the actual hitbox. Why? Why not make the whole ship smaller to fit the hitbox?

That would make things too easy :lol:

Although recently a fan-made graphical update for EoSD (TH06) includes the option of having a visible hit box. In fact (TH06) is the only game in the Touhou series that didn't have a hit box being visible at all. In the later games after TH06, when you used focused fire, you would see the hitbox on your character.

Example - in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2g4m15HC0s) if you pay close attention to the character being used and utilizes focus fire, you can see the hitbox being displayed.

Regardless, even if you were to have the hitbox displayed constantly, that doesn't stop the games having an, imo, "enjoyable difficulty" throughout the game. It's emphasized that you graze the enemy's bullets and attacks. You also earn more points when you dodge and graze the bullets without using the hitbox display.

There are some times where in fact the main goal of certain attack is that you must outlast the timer of the spell card and simply survive it till it runs down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuwYK_fsZSc

[zircon]

Fair enough - I guess it does all add to the challenge, and I didn't know that option was available. :)

[Schwaltzvald]

The one thing disappointing about the series is that generally, none of it is "officially", to my knowledge at least, translated/ported to any other language. Thus fans of the series have made "patches" and "updates" to the games that change the Japanese dialogues/text into English. A shop online sells the games for about $20 each, though EoSD sells for $16 seeing as it's the first of the series to be playable on a Windows platform.

On a different note - My current challenge is to complete stage 5 on lunatic mode in "Imperishable Night" with no bomb use or focus fire using all the playable characters.

[The Author]

Fuck, I can't finish the scarlet devil on anything but the easiest difficulty...

[Schwaltzvald]

Fuck, I can't finish the scarlet devil on anything but the easiest difficulty...

Make a search for the graphical update patch and put in the hitbox option. Beaten the game myself on hard mode but not lunatic mode yet.

It's only as difficult as you make it so long as you don't have the patience.

I used to get frustrated on Extra mode on EoSD but that's changed since then. Still many challenges I've yet to complete.

beating this guy's run by not using focus fire is one of them damn it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l89gJrrnkCw

[FR]

Someone should bump the shoot 'em up thread.

I'm scared to try this.

[Schwaltzvald]

Someone should bump the shoot 'em up thread.

I'm scared to try this.

You can always try out Gundemonium Recollection (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKpFuk9EfgM&feature=related)...

[Gollgagh]

graphic for the ship

lol I don't think zircon has played very many Touhou games

[FR]

lol I don't think zircon has played very many Touhou gamesHa ha, I should read threads more often.

[Schwaltzvald]

I suppose I'm the only one that was surprised by the bro-fists. :lol:

I'm definately adding the latest one to the set soon as it comes out :)!!

[Dhsu]

Hahaha, BROFISTS.

...................__
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(


Seriously though, you'd think that by now ZUN would buy some better samples with all the money he's getting from pedos.

[Gollgagh]

Seriously though, you'd think that by now ZUN would buy some better samples with all the money he's getting from pedos.

dhsu I am putting this in my sig

[Sag Ee Mana]

I suppose I'm the only one that was surprised by the bro-fists. :lol:

I'm definately adding the latest one to the set soon as it comes out :)!!

No, you're not the only one ^^'''


However, I don't think I like a lot the UFO system, because in a bullet hell, choosing 3 flying saucers of the same color or the 3 different ones is too much while we are avoiding hundreds of bullets on the screen (IMO).
Maybe ZUN added that in order to disturb people who learn each pattern, each moment in the game and so could clear hardest modes...
But I'm not at their level :p

[Schwaltzvald]

No, you're not the only one ^^'''


However, I don't think I like a lot the UFO system, because in a bullet hell, choosing 3 flying saucers of the same color or the 3 different ones is too much while we are avoiding hundreds of bullets on the screen (IMO).

I see it as another way to beat seemingly difficult bullet hell moments by utilizing the ufo system. Once you've succeeded in collecting the required 3 which ever way, it takes away a lot of bullets from the screen all the while rewarding you.

[Sag Ee Mana]

I see it as another way to beat seemingly difficult bullet hell moments by utilizing the ufo system. Once you've succeeded in collecting the required 3 which ever way, it takes away a lot of bullets from the screen all the while rewarding you.

Oh yes, you're right !!!
I forgot that ! :oops:
Well let's see this summer how the full game will be, I can't wait to fight against the "successor" of the Nuclear Girl (SA)!!!
(and hopefully, this time, bombs used don't change the attack power)

[Schwaltzvald]

Oh yes, you're right !!!
I forgot that ! :oops:
(and hopefully, this time, bombs used don't change the attack power)

The way bombs are collected are just like back in the th06-08 series in that you just collect them. However I assume you can only actually collect them from the ufo's. As I tried again earlier when I've completed a couple of ufo collections I had about 4 or 5 bombs at the ready.

basically bombs don't use ur actual strength, as they act just like in the older titles pre th10

[Sag Ee Mana]

basically bombs don't use ur actual strength, as they act just like in the older titles pre th10

Reading that makes me nostalgic...
You know, the first Touhou game I've played is Perfect Cherry Blossom.
'Shmup' fan for more than 20 years, I've realized I didn't know the bullet hell system well, more used with R-Type/Paro-Gradius/Darius/old NeoGeo shmups series, or maybe Raiden is a bullet hell ? Well it seems different for me.
I played after Imperishable Night, my favourite one (the final battle VS Kaguya is awesome with the piano theme and the moon on the screen), and so on, downloading (and also buying on paletweb) all games including the three 'x.5' ones.

I remember TH8-IN where we could 'continue' where we die, not at the beginning of the level. It was great because it's since frustrating to reach the boss after losing lifes during the level, again and again >_<...

Other point : the music.
I like Cirno theme, well many boss themes (and some from levels) in touhou games before 10. (the two street fighter games musics (7.5 and 10.5) are the BEST imo but there are not from ZUN, am I right ?)
Mountain of Faith is not bad either, there is a good work (ZUN used weird sound sometimes, it's getting better).
But I forgot Subterranean Animism tracks, oh maybe the greensleeves-like one hit me ^^
And now, about UFO, the first level theme seems to be a li'l nostalgic, and the mouse-girl boss one is also cool. But after, it's... so so. not bad, not good, I miss the catching tracks against Alice or... miss bunny the one in my sig (forgot the name xD))

You know, Schwaltzvald, maybe you'll find this stupid, but I'm better when I like the track played. During Kaguya fight in TH8, or Suika one in TH7.5, I was like INTO the music, and so... as Neo in Matrix, the game suddenly seems easier.

Hum, sorry for the big post, thanks to OCR I can practice my english :)

[Schwaltzvald]

I can understand some fans wanting ZUN to use better music samples and such; but I have to disagree. So long as the instruments being used actually sound okay, even if midi-ish, it leaves the actual track open for many possibilities for remixes or awesome covers.

Exhibit A - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdTP5lImb-I
Exhibit B - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqfWF4IMKV0

Somewhat of topic, but that just shows what possibilities there are with ZUN's music. Just like how there's tons of fan art that look better than what he's drawn. I'd rather have it be somewhat rough on the edges and see what other people can do with it. All the more reason that I'm looking forward to the new game.

[OverCoat]

the graphic for the ship

http://shii.org/yukkuri/yukkuri.png

[Sag Ee Mana]

I know I know, I have maybe 22 Go of touhou music, (just got a big torrent file with a lot inside).
When I work on my writings, I listen to that huge flow of music, and even if there is good and bad stuff, there are so many genres that everybody can find what he likes.
(click on my sig, there are some of the image albums)
I love Wave, Elementas, dbu, golden city factory, etc etc etc...

And I LOVE your youtube links =D

So I understand you, the only thing is when we have to play many times the same level, if the music is addictive, it's better !

And please D:man, don't put this heads character thing on my screen >_<
It's really AWFUL !!!

(EDIT oh gno 641 posts I wanted to stop at 640, 64 is MY number T_T)

[Schwaltzvald]

To those unaware its the yukkuris, basically they're an attempted Shift_JIS portraits of the two major characters of the series gone horribly wrong. The joke's gone so far as to create a pseudo-national geographic explanation of them involving various explanations of their existance ect...

I don't mind them as they're just part of the weirdness of fans out there. :lol:

[Sag Ee Mana]

To those unaware its the yukkuris, basically they're an attempted Shift_JIS portraits of the two major characters of the series gone horribly wrong. The joke's gone so far as to create a pseudo-national geographic explanation of them involving various explanations of their existance ect...

I don't mind them as they're just part of the weirdness of fans out there. :lol:

And I'm pretty sure there is already a touhou game with those, am I right ? :razz:

(you know, like the touhou lemmings, mariari, the RTS one etc etc)

[Schwaltzvald]

the RTS one etc etc)

There is patchcon: Defend the Library (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEJ6tDy4Oeo&feature=related) with an english patch out recently for it.

[Sag Ee Mana]

There is patchcon: Defend the Library (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEJ6tDy4Oeo&feature=related) with an english patch out recently for it.

English patch ????
I didn't know, except for the menu my game is japanese :/
Thanks for the news !

Well you seem well informed so do you know if some of the last shmups have english patch ? Or even IaMP or SWR, the fighting games ? I only got a patch for IN, and even if it's only a shmup, I like ZUN work so I'd like to understand the dialogues :)

[Schwaltzvald]

The most recent of patches on the shmups section are Mof and SA so yes they are out. laMP v1.1 patch has also been released with some fixes since feb 28, 09. SWR along with some other titles are being voted on for the next english patching; including the old PC-98 games. Last I saw SWR is leading in terms of being the next translation patch project.

[The Coop]

Joy. Yet another bullet curtain shmup filled with loli-tastic characters. Haven't both of these trends gone on long enough? I love shmups and all, but I think it's time for another shift in shmup design.

[Schwaltzvald]

Trend or not I've yet to find anything else that provides such a challenge and polished more or less.

However if ya got something coop do share :)!!

[Sag Ee Mana]

The most recent of patches on the shmups section are Mof and SA so yes they are out. laMP v1.1 patch has also been released with some fixes since feb 28, 09. SWR along with some other titles are being voted on for the next english patching; including the old PC-98 games. Last I saw SWR is leading in terms of being the next translation patch project.

:nicework:

You're great man ^^

Do you have links or touhou wikia can help me find all of that ?

[Schwaltzvald]

:nicework:

You're great man ^^

Do you have links or touhou wikia can help me find all of that ?

Just make a search for Gensokyo.org or just Gensokyo in general. From the site just look through their posts they ought to give links to the patches.

As for the heavy use of "lolis", if it makes any body feel insecure about playing the games involving them, there's always the Cho Aniki series as it ought to balance out the predominantly feminine cast of the Touhou series. :lol:

Last new game I've heard was Zero Chō Aniki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Cho_Aniki

[Sag Ee Mana]

Hey you really made my day !

Cho Aniki has always been the weirdest thing I ever seen and wanted to try but I wasn't able to play it.
Now I can :)

[The Coop]

Trend or not I've yet to find anything else that provides such a challenge and polished more or less.

However if ya got something coop do share :)!!

Have you played Ikaruga, Gradius V, Under Defeat or Border Down? All of them are loli-less, non-bullet curtain shmups, and they're all polished and challenging. This comes from stage designs, enemy placement, and bullets... not just bullets. This is a trend I would like to see expanded upon. Tougher regular enemies, more challenging enemy patterns and stage designs, and attacks from bigger enemies and bosses that do more than just fill the screen with 329 bullets at once (the final boss in Thunder Force V is a good example of what I'm talking about).

Like the shmups in the late 80s and early 90s, you can only push things so far in a formula before you need to go back to the drawing board and come up with new ideas, or even go back and try to enhance older ones. If you don't, things stagnate. I feel that time has been reached, yet the bullet curtains and lolis just keep coming.

When the occasional shmup like Gradius V, or Under Defeat comes around, it's like a breath of fresh air. The problem is, that only happens once in a while. I don't want bullet curtains to vanish altogether, but I'd like to see a broader range of shmup types getting released. It's time for the genre to get an infusion of shmups that feel more like the 80s and early 90s stuff (with new ideas), to sit along side the lolis and bullet curtains. I'd like to see more side scrollers, as they've been way too under represented for quite a while now. I'd like to see companies use their creativity on enemy placement and patterns, and stage layouts that do more than just go straight from A to B with hardly any danger beyond enemies and their bullets. There's more to shmuping than just pretty bullet patterns. Treasure gave the genre a shot in the arm with Ikaruga, so I know it can be done if companies try.

I honestly don't think I'm asking for the impossible here. I just want more variety in my shmuping life. But sadly, I don't see much of a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Sag Ee Mana]

One thing is sure about avoiding obstacles: ZUN will never put anything else than enemies on the screen.
I like a lot Ikaruga, Thunderforce V etc...

Some example funny : R-Type Delta.
Big fan of R-Type saga, I was really suprised to see that in the Delta, the ship CAN HIT the walls without being destroyed !!!
So the Final did the same...
I loved the maze level in R-Type 1 (6th), or the mess on the screen in the level after where a big thing comes slowly from the rear !
Also the Gradius biologic parts are awesome, and the asteroids or green lava levels in Gradius V are something strong too.
So yes, avoiding stuff other than hundreds of bullets is really great.

But, The Coop, something else bothers me now.
ZUN seems to be the only one to look for new challenges in a shmup these days.
Of course, there are the music based games or the remakes of the old games, but I'm still looking for something new.
And this "bullet hell" system allows really interesting patterns.
I advise you to watch on youtube some Lunatic or Extra play. This is not only hundreds of bullets on the screen. This is also a form of Art. Grids, fireworks, geometric forms of all kinds.
Thanks to Schwaltzvald, I was playing again Mountain of Faith 20 minutes ago with the patch, the first boss has a really nice looking attack ondulating on the screen.
You know, sometimes, when I played home, a friend was sitting on my side and says "wow nice pattern", "haha this is really beautiful"... WHILE I WAS SUFFERING xDDD and dying :p

But anyway : IREM, I miss you ! (and others)

[EDIT: yeah 647, a space-time post. In a Touhou thread. Don't try to understand, it's from my writings ^^]

EDIT II : Hey I'm playing Zero Cho Aniki, it's really funny ! =D And I've never play any Cho Aniki so I'm happy then !

[Schwaltzvald]

Got Ikaruga for the GC way back, Gradius V as a gift two years ago but I haven't heard of "Under Defeat" or "Border Down"; I'll have to check them out :D . Also I do see what you mean Coop and I do agree that those games are quite refreshing. However as you just said, they only ever come around once in awhile. :(

I do miss the classic side scroller games like R-type and the Gradius series. Sadly I think the one I have barely touched is the Raiden series but that's only due to availability than me actually getting into it.

Heck I even tried out Söldner-X: Himmelsstürmer and enjoyed it despite how much it's an "acquired" taste in terms of shmups. Just that they simply aren't as popular except as a niche genre :puppyeyes:

I'm with ya Coop on greater/fresher things to come out, however until something does. I simply enjoy whatever comes out that avoids one of my own personal pet peeves, which are titles that provide little challenge or do so purposely. :)!!

Unless of course it's a parody or joke game :lol:

Also perhaps I should note this, if I can play Quest 64 (THATS RIGHT QUEST 64) 3 or 4 times all the way from the beginning to the end and some how some way find something I liked about it... Maybe I'm in some way far left side of the gaming spectrum that is difficult to turn off. :lol:

[Sag Ee Mana]

Just watched a youtube gameplay demo of "Söldner-X: Himmelsstürmer".
Wow, this game rocks !
This is PC ?
I'll try to get it, it seems to be like in the same category than Gradius V.

Otherwise, if you want to play good old school shmups, don't forget MAME emulator. There are many masterpieces there !
Ok ok, not legal etc etc but don't count on me to buy a big Neo Geo cartridge today :lol:

[The Coop]

Schwaltzvald- Under Defeat and Border Down were Naomi board shmups in the arcade. They got ported to the Dreamcast in fine form, but they were only released in Japan. They're great games though, despite that they aren't the easiest things to acquire these days... cheaply at least.



Sag Ee Mana- Bullet patterns can be fun. I don't deny that. But these days, that's pretty much what shmups seem to rely on for challenge more often than not... bullet patterns made up of a couple hundred bullets/lasers. That's fine and all, but it get monotonous after a while. It's like when people used to complain about how shmups were constantly just one lone spaceship fighting against an armada of sci-fi enemies back in the early 90s. They wanted things changed up from the current norm, and that's what I'd like... change.

...

Maybe Obama can make a shmup for us ;-)


Oh, and Söldner-X: Himmelsstürmer is on the PC and PS3. The PC version comes with a physical disc and assorted goodies, while the PS3 version is only in downloadable form. The PS3 version had a few tweaks done it to try and make it easier, but frankly, I didn't find it to be all that impossible in the first place (I've beaten it). You can buy the PC version of it for $10 on Play Asia (http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-7s-49-en-70-255r.html) for a limited time, and you get an artbook, soundtrack CD, and a snazzy slip case for it all.

[Sag Ee Mana]

Yeah Play Asia, I like them ^^ (hop, basket)
(Was on liksang before but everyone knows what happened to them huh?)
Thank you for the link !

Your reply makes me realize an important thing :
shmups exist now for the SCORE,like arcade games could you say, because there is a ranking (often "AAA" in my memories :lol:)
And Touhou is a BIG example for that because lots of elements are put there only for a "best score" purpose.
Before the 'console/pc' games seemed to be created with more creativity (like RPG, etc etc... this is another discussion ^^), i.e. the programmers didn't aimed at first for a high score game but for an atmosphere, for a really well made game where each level is a specific world, where each music hits us, where each boss makes us shout "WOW !".


OFF TOPIC : http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-9g-49-fr-70-3aht.html <--- WOW :D

[I-n-j-i-n]

I have a REALLY hard time finding Touhou full versions online for some reason. I think I have only three out of them all and all by really shady download sites..

[Dhsu]

Googling "doujin soft" should get you pretty close.