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View Full Version : Logic 9 is out


Fishy
07-27-2009, 09:38 PM
http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/logicpro/

Looks like they have a whole bunch of crazy guitar amps now. Depending on how good it is, I may have wasted my money on guitar rig 3, although I suspect that isn't the case.

Also appears to have better notation facilities. May have a deeper look when my macbook r fixed.

audio fidelity
07-28-2009, 04:48 AM
metal tones seem weak - but in terms of vintage tones - i'll be pulling the trigger soon - still curious to see what happens with snow leopard (kinda interesting they say it's only compatible with the newest version of leopard)

Rozovian
07-28-2009, 10:59 AM
Hmm.... Kontakt, or Logic 9.... What should I get next? I was hoping they'd give the EXS24 an update so it can do round robins properly. Apparently not.

audio fidelity
07-29-2009, 07:37 PM
mm - if you want better sounds go with kontakt - 9 will be waiting - but the word is both of them address more ram now which is fantastic

also - www.macprovideo.com goes over some of the new features in some free vids if you guys want to check it out

big giant circles
07-29-2009, 09:39 PM
the *general* rule of thumb is that 3rd party plugins are better, because that's primarily their thang, ya know?

I'm not saying that Logic doesn't do a good job, but take Fishy's statement about Guitar Rig. Even if the sound quality/modeling is comparable, I highly doubt that Logic will beat GR's interface, not to mention the awesome Rig Kontrol option.

Again, this is not *always* the case, but it's a fairly safe rule to live by just the same.

HyruleanTubist
07-30-2009, 05:43 AM
I'm definitely on board for Logic 9. I've been in dire need of an upgrade, as I've been working off of Logic Express 7. It gets me through, but this will be muuuuch better. I'll update once I get ahold of it and test out all the new guitar stuff. Although I won't be able to compare it to Guitar Rig on my own, considering I don't have it.

Flexstyle
07-31-2009, 03:08 AM
I'm desperately wishing for $200 to come my way so I can upgrade from Logic 8, lol. Logic 9 looks tasty!

avaris
07-31-2009, 04:28 AM
The only thing this update really seems good for, for a non-guitarist, is the new audio editing on the main arrange page. Are there any other features people know about that don't coincide with the new audio editing and beat matching?

big giant circles
07-31-2009, 04:41 AM
Did they happen to make the piano roll less crappy? (aka, more like FL's). That's my primary hangup considering how much time I spend in the PR. Otherwise, I'd probably just go ahead and switch to Logic for my primary DAW. I love the way Logic handles automation, not to mention the single-window interface, which is effin brilliant. I just do so hate their PR... (also, I consider FL's mixer slightly more intuitive).

audio fidelity
07-31-2009, 03:41 PM
what is you don't like about the piano roll jimmy?

first of all the color coded velocities is super helpful which fl misses out on

-RK-
08-04-2009, 02:45 AM
If you got GR3 with the controller Fishy, then no, you didn't waste money. Shit is sweet.:P

And yeah, I'm going to update probably. I like the new multitracking, and the notation looks nice, and I don't want to buy finale or sibelius. Money I could spend on turntables.:P

Soundtrack Pro 3 looks sick too.

Smenelian
08-04-2009, 06:00 AM
what is you don't like about the piano roll jimmy?

first of all the color coded velocities is super helpful which fl misses out on

If I may interject here, color coded velocities have nothing on the super simple editing of velocities that FL has. Just have the mouse in the general proximity of a note velocity on the bottom of the piano roll and adjust it to taste with a single click and without changing editing tools. You can also sweep the mouse across the velocities to change groups of them at once if you want. In Logic, as far as I can tell, you must have the pointer tool out and must click on the velocity and drag it to where you want it. And I know you can sweep across groups of velocities at once but I can't get it to work half the time. Basically, this stuff equates to more work and time, and it adds up quick.

Also, my personal favorite feature of FL's piano roll, keyboard shortcuts where you don't have to manually switch back to your previous tool. Like if I want to cut a note I hold shift with the pencil tool active and it changes to the cutting tool. After I cut the note it switches back to the pencil tool automatically. Or I can hold shift+alt to cut while bypassing quantize settings.

I have been trying to make the switch to Logic but the piano roll is a huge snag. I don't know if I'll ever get used to it.

audio fidelity
08-04-2009, 02:44 PM
whoa! you didn't start trashing logic in a logic thread did you xD

but i do want to understand the differences so thanks for chiming in

logic has a pane at the bottom of the piano roll that pulls up velocities and you can do one clicks and grab as well as lines (line tool) - but even easier for me for small tweaks is assigning my command tool in the piano rolls as my velocity tool so i can command click and watch the velocity change right there. another thing to consider with editing is logic's transform command window which can change huge amounts of data in an automated fashion that can save lots of time.

logic has 3 tools at your fingertips at all times - with right clicking, and command clicking - you also have a zoom tool there so thats 4 - hitting esc you get all your tools right there - so it doesn't take much more time.

rig1015
08-04-2009, 10:29 PM
PLZ, PLZ, PLZ, did they make the faders bigger? My biggest hang-up with Logic Studio is that faders are tiny; bigger the fader better the attenuation.

Smenelian
08-05-2009, 05:43 AM
Don't get the wrong idea. I'm not trying to trash Logic, I'm actually very interested in learning better ways to do things in the program. Just pointing out the differences I've seen that make an impact in my experience.

In FL you don't have to actually drag the velocity, you just click where you want it to be and it pops into place. I guess that's the biggest difference there. Hitting esc is a good time saver that I was not aware of.

Honestly if they did something like Sonar where you can customize what the mouse does down to the finest details, I would probably just switch to Logic altogether. I am a huge fan of the included plugins (Sculpture ftw) and I actually prefer many aspects of the workflow. But when I spend 90% of the time in the piano roll, it needs to be lightning fast.

audio fidelity
08-05-2009, 05:59 AM
well - like i said - you can bring up that other window at the bottom and see strictly velocity info and do one click edits if holding a modifier and dragging is too much work

Smenelian
08-06-2009, 02:44 AM
I have tried the bottom window and I can't get it to change anything without dragging the mouse. Is this a function of version 9 or can I do this in 8?

audio fidelity
08-06-2009, 04:24 AM
there's a little button at the bottom left corner in the piano roll - clicking on this brings up the automation/velocity data

it's been around since i've had 6 i think

rig1015
08-06-2009, 10:12 PM
well - like i said - you can bring up that other window at the bottom and see strictly velocity info and do one click edits if holding a modifier and dragging is too much work
RU talking about the Event window?

Honestly if they did something like Sonar where you can customize what the mouse does down to the finest details, I would probably just switch to Logic altogether.

I know in Logic 7 Pro you can COMPLETELY customize the short keys, MIDI controllers, and interface. I never took the time to learn in Studio, but I'm sure the didn't pitch that function in 9.

audio fidelity
08-08-2009, 05:21 AM
ok - pulled the trigger on 9

haven't gotten to mess with everything (like flex) but about the amps - i'm pretty shocked with some of the tones i'm getting - i went direct and was pretty sad at first - but i mic'd a clean signal and am getting some pretty awesome tones - standard metal guitar is not really happening as well as gr3 but everything else sounds great - i can get some pretty dirty and even rough tones but i like metal guitar stuff to be tight and controlled

want to get more into flex time - been hearing about some bugs people have been finding on the net

back to the piano roll - here's a brief video showing the pane i'm talking about
http://www.ehow.com/video_4460334_piano-roll-options-logic-pro.html

another thing to consider when editing in logic is the hyper editor which often gets overlooked - you can do volume and other data in musical divisions more similar to fl - if thats what your looking for - and you program drums similiar to fl too - the only thing is logic gives you so much flexibility that you have to go in there and kinda program you want to get the desired effect - but once you take a little of time and know what you like - it's pretty easy - i did one for my addictive drum set and it's pretty killer and intuitive

here's some info on hyper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy5wImZ_3-k
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr08/articles/logictech_0408.htm

zircon
08-08-2009, 05:25 AM
Logic's piano roll is just plain awful compared to FL's. Here is why FL has the best piano roll:

* Left click once to create a note. The note created has the same duration as the last note you drew.
* Left click and drag on a note to move it in any direction.
* Left click and hold while creating a note to move it around in any direction.
* Right click to turn the cursor into a delete tool.
* Left click and drag the end of a note to resize.

So simple, yet every DAW gets it wrong. Creating, moving and deleting notes is what I spend 99% of my time doing in the piano roll. I should NEVER have to touch my keyboard or switch tools to do any of these things. Everything should be extremely fluid. Logic feels like molasses in comparison.

avaris
08-08-2009, 06:55 AM
* Left click once to create a note. The note created has the same duration as the last note you drew.
* Left click and drag on a note to move it in any direction.
* Left click and hold while creating a note to move it around in any direction.
* Right click to turn the cursor into a delete tool.
* Left click and drag the end of a note to resize.

Assign Pencil tool to left mouse click. (does everything listed above; AND you can double click on a note to delete it)

Enable right mouse click to be a tool. Assign Eraser tool. (can be assigned to anything)

Switch the "command" button on the keyboard to be the Select tool and you can select large groups of notes for editing then.

And these settings can be kept so you don't have to switch things every time.

( Logic 8 )

zircon
08-08-2009, 02:27 PM
The pencil tool in Logic definitely doesn't work like normal drawing in FL... I've used it, and they're not the same!

avaris
08-08-2009, 02:44 PM
Yeah I have used both too. The pencil tool does those things you described exactly the same. Really don't know what to say to ya dude. Yeah there are other differences in the overall piano roll, but in the functionality described above they are the same. I would make a video but I am swamped with work. :sleepdepriv:

audio fidelity
08-08-2009, 03:45 PM
Zirc - just like shaun said - it's all there - you can't refute it

Now I have 3 tools easily at my disposal with left, right, and with my command click (you can't really say that hitting an easy modifier is that much trouble :P). I usually have my pointer tool on left and pencil on the right, with my velcocity tool set for the command click for the piano roll (each editor you can set 3 dif tools). All these are easily changable in the top right and will continue to follow which I ever tool I want them to be if I know going to continue my editing in a certain format. Now getting to your concerns.


* Left click once to create a note. The note created has the same duration as the last note you drew.
Pencil tool does exactly like you say with one click and keeping the same duration as last created/clicked


* Left click and drag on a note to move it in any direction.
yup - selector tool - i have mine set to go only left/right or up/down when i'm moving a note

* Left click and hold while creating a note to move it around in any direction.
pencil reacts differently in that when i hold down it changes the duration of the note which i actually find more helpful - why would i want to click somewhere where i don't want the note :/

* Right click to turn the cursor into a delete tool.
you could set it up for right click - or you could set it up for command click - which i actually would do if it wasn't for the velocity tool which gives me the ability to change velocity by clicking and drag on a note which find to be faster for my workflow - if i need to delete a note which isn't done as much as changing velocity then i'll just hit delete - it's really not that much longer to just hit delete with how often i do it

* Left click and drag the end of a note to resize.

again selector tool - resizes notes when on the end

logic has all the same functionality you ask for and more especially with the hyper editor and transform window. the transform window is extremely powerful in doing large edits in one click. for example, say you give a performance where 127 triggers a sample you don't want - and you did it a bunch through a long take. bring up the transform window - set up your maximum midi velocity for 126 and logic will take care of the rest for you. you can set up all kinds of parameters to be automated/fixed and you can even put objects into the arrange to affect hardware or software instruments.

Flexstyle
08-08-2009, 09:37 PM
Oh no, a "[DAW #1] is superior to [DAW #2]" battle! I own 'em both (and am Apple certified with Logic 8) ), and while I currently favor FL, I'd get more into Logic if I had more than a 13" MacBook to run it on, lol.

As long as the music is good and the beats are phat, who cares what it was made with?

audio fidelity
08-08-2009, 11:22 PM
dude i am so sick of people saying daw wars - it comes with the territory naturally cause people get very accustomed a working environment and lot of it can be out of your hands with software - i was just curious what all the real hype is about fl's piano roll - and i'm still not seeing it

otherwise use whatever tool you like

OA
08-09-2009, 12:25 AM
logic sucks- go drink your expensive coffee and gtfo, you mac snobs.

audio fidelity
08-09-2009, 12:55 AM
i hate coffee - much more of a tea person

zircon
08-09-2009, 01:03 AM
Sorry Jay, but in your own post you listed several examples where Logic's piano roll is nothing like FL - ie. the inability to click and drag and note to move it, something that is extremely vital functionality, the fact that it forces you to use shortcuts to change tools when FL does it all in the mouse, the inability to have an eraser swath tool w/o switching keys, etc. It's not all "right there." I had to use Logic for four years and all I can say is that it might be my least favorite DAW; its piano roll is absolutely inefficient garbage in my opinion (and Jimmy agrees, from what I know!)

Show me a Logic piano roll that behaves exactly, and I mean EXACTLY like the FL piano roll and then I'll believe you. ;)

I'd love to have a contest with anyone who thinks they can *sequence* faster with Logic than FL. Seriously! I'm that confident that FL is faster than anything.

Smenelian
08-09-2009, 01:10 AM
I see the velocity area underneath the piano roll - it looks pretty similar to FL but as I understand it I have to click on the velocity and then pull it down or up. I can't just click say 75% from the bottom of the pane and have it jump right to that spot. That's how FL does it and I know it sounds trivial but it is really weird and slow to not have that functionality.

Anyway, I'll try not to keep the "DAW war" going and just ask: how can I have my 3 mouse tools stay the same when I open a project? I keep having to switch them back.

zircon
08-09-2009, 01:12 AM
Yeah, the velocity editing is a million times better as well, IMO. I can just smoothly right click and drag - WITHOUT changing tools - to easily set all of my velocities however I want. I can simply "paint" them. No need to select all the notes or any nonsense like that.

ambinate
08-09-2009, 01:14 AM
I'm not going to argue that the Logic piano roll is better or faster than FL Studio's, 'cause I haven't had enough experience with either of them, but I'm pretty sure all of those basic functions are covered by Logic's piano roll as long as the pencil tool is selected, including clicking and dragging on a note to move it around. Unless I'm misunderstanding something? I used the demo of FL a while ago and never got too fast with it just because I didn't spend a ton of time with it, but Logic's piano roll doesn't seem drastically different to me. FL's might be faster, but the basic functions of both are almost identical.

avaris
08-09-2009, 01:36 AM
I have my 3 mouse tools stay the same when I open a project? I keep having to switch them back.

Create a new file and assign the piano tools to your liking. Then go to File->Save as Template.

Just use that file when you start a new project; the tools should all be in the right place.

audio fidelity
08-09-2009, 01:53 AM
Yeah, the velocity editing is a million times better as well, IMO. I can just smoothly right click and drag - WITHOUT changing tools - to easily set all of my velocities however I want. I can simply "paint" them. No need to select all the notes or any nonsense like that.

oh we got that - it's called the hyper editor

yeah andy - idk man - there's no point getting into it - you like your thing - i'm happy with mine - but logic does have all that functionality - maybe the layout is dif and you can work faster - but i'm pretty happy - no reason to steer people away from good software

but if you want a make a vid and show me what i'm missing - i'll be glad to watch