OCR01305 - Super Metroid 'Dirty Sam'

[djpretzel]

What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix.

[DonkeyTip]

i am sorry, but this remix had me doin some salsa moves almost. it was very enjoyable. good stuff. amen and kudos. it has a few diff styles in it. nice werk .

[Dhsu]

Heh...post 1337 in the Decisions forum.

Nice.

[Liontamer]

Heh...post 1337 in the Decisions forum.

Nice.
Well I'll be damned.

[big giant circles]

i am sorry, but this remix had me doin some salsa moves almost.

what do you mean almost? i got up and shook what my momma gave me.

no seriously, though. this one is as captivating as cerebral rose jam (http://www.ocremix.org/detailmix.php?mixid=OCR01292) only in a different genre. i don't even know how to categorize this one. but i love the "dirty" fuzz-i-fied drums there at the end. the organ break is pretty fun as well. the bongos/congas are a great beat, as well. i like the cross-panned/stuttered/lead as well. this is highly enjoyable. recommended. nice work, Mr. Star.

*EDIT*
upon reading the judges decision per this remix, I've noticed that the judges seemed to disagree a bit on this particular remix. just my two cents, but this is an example of a song where i really didn't mind the repitition at all. it seems certain judges don't like that. i personally believe that some people don't mind getting down and rocking a groove for more than 3 or 4 minutes. As long as the groove kicks yo mamma's ass. It certainly did mine. :)

Again, that's just my US $0.02

[Protricity]

I'll agree with vig, as usual. This is one of the most non-intuitive songs I've ever heard. Seems the only reason it passed is due to the usual 'groove' bias. Hard to believe that any simple drum loop could be so groovy that it justifies looping virtually nonstop for 6 minutes on the same key with minimal changes on ye old metroid title theme. One redeeming quality is perhaps the break at 1:00. Its certainly a good direction this song could have taken to be more interesting. unfortunately it dies off quickly. Reappears later (loop) and dies again. A multitude of problems upon that; delayed strings show yet again that good samples still require a discipline of skill or they just sound bad. I will say the loop loop loop nature of this song is fitting as the standards here appear to loop loop loop downward in a spiral to oblivion.
There’s no justification here. Marc Star is WAY WAY better than this. A great example would be one of my all time favorite ocremixes 'Wild Arms RosettaRefrain OC ReMix' towards which this doesn't manage even the same realm of quality. Or of course 'Final Fantasy 8 Fantasy Rush OC ReMix'. No dice here.

[bladiator]

I'll agree with vig, as usual. This is one of the most non-intuitive songs I've ever heard. Seems the only reason it passed is due to the usual 'groove' bias. Hard to believe that any simple drum loop could be so groovy that it justifies looping virtually nonstop for 6 minutes on the same key with minimal changes on ye old metroid title theme. One redeeming quality is perhaps the break at 1:00. Its certainly a good direction this song could have taken to be more interesting. unfortunately it dies off quickly. Reappears later (loop) and dies again. A multitude of problems upon that; delayed strings show yet again that good samples still require a discipline of skill or they just sound bad. I will say the loop loop loop nature of this song is fitting as the standards here appear to loop loop loop downward in a spiral to oblivion.
There’s no justification here. Marc Star is WAY WAY better than this. A great example would be one of my all time favorite ocremixes 'Wild Arms RosettaRefrain OC ReMix' towards which this doesn't manage even the same realm of quality. Or of course 'Final Fantasy 8 Fantasy Rush OC ReMix'. No dice here.

You know, I was sitting here listening to the remix for the first time and thinking to myself "Prot is out of his mind." But now that I'm 4 minutes in, I realized that he's on the money here. It's mostly a bunch of beeping on a drum loop. Now, don't get me wrong, I suck at drums and hate sequencing my own with a passion, but I wish there had been more of the breakouts of strings and electric piano, because that part made me very happy. The whole thing has a great groove, and I can bob my head to it, but it just doesn't have much to hold my attention after 3 minutes.

[Samuru]

I just loved it. The style is definetely it's own in my opinion. The beginning with the drums was awesome. I'm not too savy on technical things about remixing, but I can definetely say this is one awesome, unique remix.

[Liontamer]

Having a fairly split vote on the mix certainly indicates that some aspects should be better, but as for cherry-picking an argument like "groove bias" just because this passed, it's bullshit. Groove-type tracks aren't a shoe-in here. Though they generally encourage debate, some submissions are taken (http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35030), and some are not (http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=48047).

Several issues criticizing "Dirty Sam" on 1) the level of source arrangement, 2) the reliance on beats to make the track, and 3) repetition were also levied on "Drop and Roll", yet many of panelists who voted on both were on different sides of YES & NO.

"Groove bias," Ari says. Judgez luv tekno 2! I'm not the one who voted on tefnek's first mix with...Bitchin style. How can I not say

YES?

well, lets see.

Nothing wrong.

Wow, this fucking rules!

GOOD JORB
If you wanna criticize the panel on groove bias, the least you could have done back when you were on it was to not write flimsy votes that LOOK like groove bias. Pick your battles when you actually have a case, Ari. Don't be such a hypocrite.

[danny B]

Larry's Winner!

Now let's go back to discussing this track. Marc did a great job, so let's give the man some props/critique.

[Aamean]

I just find it repetitive as some others have. It seems to be missing something, I don't quite know what it is. But I'm really just not feeling this song too well. Seems like it could've been much shorter, and might've been much better then.

[MrBogus]

I seem to post reviews only on controversial pieces ...

Yes, technically the piece is repetitive, with the groove beat omnipresent except in a few places. However, once you let the song loop for a while, the beat almost melts into the background, letting the minimalist lead melodies reveal themselves. The groove is an important component of the piece, but it still plays merely a supporting role.

What I don't understand is how people can rag on this and yet there exists a significant portion of hip-hop and rap built on a repeating 2-bar loop. I understand that these artists layer on soul and some slick rhymes, but the difference lies in the intended atmosphere of the song, not in its quality.

This piece is groove based. And it's damn good. Props to Mr. Star.

[ella guro]

I don't get this. I listened, I tried, and there are some cool sections thrown in throughout the mix. Too bad most of it is dominated by an incredibly minimalistic groove with a synth that isn't even interesting (more annoying than anything else). It's probably true that the claims of repetition on the panel were overexaggerated, because there are slightly different things going on in different places to accompany the basic groove.

Still, this comes off as a very underwhelming arrangement. Doesn't a groove require the section being repeated to be somewhat interesting in the first place? I can see this mix still "working" as a groove, but not how it is right now, and not for over 6 minutes.

[Protricity]

Having a fairly split vote on the mix certainly indicates that some aspects should be better, but as for cherry-picking an argument like "groove bias" just because this passed, it's bullshit. Groove-type tracks aren't a shoe-in here. Though they generally encourage debate, some submissions are taken (http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35030), and some are not (http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=48047).

Several issues criticizing "Dirty Sam" on 1) the level of source arrangement, 2) the reliance on beats to make the track, and 3) repetition were also levied on "Drop and Roll", yet many of panelists who voted on both were on different sides of YES & NO.

"Groove bias," Ari says. Judgez luv tekno 2! I'm not the one who voted on tefnek's first mix with...Bitchin style. How can I not say

YES?

well, lets see.

Nothing wrong.

Wow, this fucking rules!

GOOD JORB
If you wanna criticize the panel on groove bias, the least you could have done back when you were on it was to not write flimsy votes that LOOK like groove bias. Pick your battles when you actually have a case, Ari. Don't be such a hypocrite.

Not sure why this is on someone's review thread. Nor am I sure why it is at all relevant. Tefnek's druming was varied and superb, a completely different story. Attacking someone on a review thread is inconsiderate towards the artist. Stay on topic.
As for my opinion towards the groove, I think its apparent that somewhere near half the people who have thus spoken are remotely to completely agreeing with me. Stating your opinion is fine. Attacking someone elses is not, especially when they are certianly not the only ones of that mind etc.

[DarkeSword]

While I voted NO on this song, there are good points that I really did enjoy, such as the string/rhodes section, as well as the overall texture of the song. Wonderfully executed, Marc. :)

As for this review thread, Ari, using an artist's review thread to make a jab at the panel with an accusation of bias, as well as a jab at site standards, is also disrespectful to the artist. Review the song, not the site, please.

Any further discussion pertaining to 'bias' and 'spiraling standards' should be carried out via PM or IM. This goes for everyone.

[neminem]

I loved this one, but that one instrument that's hard-panned to the right really did bug me, as I'm listening on headphones. I hope it doesn't ruin too much of your creative vision that I opened it up in Cakewalk and then saved it as mono? I made sure to put in a note to that effect in the id3 tags (so hopefully people will notice the change if they get it off my computer somehow).

Other than that, I really couldn't care less about what the disapproving judges said - yes, it's repetitive, but so's the genre from which songs like this come. It works well, I thought.

[benevolensaurus]

I don't know, I use these large, ear-engulfing headphones, but the pulse going on for most of the song panned right didn't bug me at all. In fact, I thought it added to the piece quite a bit. Maybe it's because I never have the volume very high? Eh, anyway, yeah, I like this. It's one of those tracks that just sort of rolls along, never getting too intense and never fading so much as to make one lose interest.

To tell the truth, I haven't actually just sat here and concentrated on doing nothing but listening to this piece. It really isn't that type of song, though, it's not something you would actually focus on much. To me, it's more of one of those loop-in-the-background-an-unspecified-number-of-times-while-you-concentrate-on-other-random-tasks songs. For example, I've listened to it 21 times so far. I probably wouldn't listen to it on its own, but it's good to loop and just... listen to. Over, and over, and over.

[Txai]

Has repetitive/repetitions in this work. But in the repetitions some sound effect are added. I think that I only can listen this, about distractions. However the arrangement is good. The beats are cool. The melody is crazy (I never listened the original). And of course, only good work for me. Never nice!

[playingtokrush]

This song didn't make me orgasm the way all of Marc Star's other remixes do. C:(

[Wallace Guyford]

Whatever that instrument in the beginning is is hurting my right ear.

[progressive]

Wow, so much controversy. I speculate that what happened here was a backlash against minimalist style (which, curiously, few of the persons attacking this mix have mastered). That being the case, I have to say something in the song's defense. Stating that the drum beat loops "virtually nonstop for 6 minutes" (I won't name names) not only reveals a prejudice against the song but is false (we could call it a lie). The drum loop in question plays for a combined 190 seconds of the song. What does that make the other 180 seconds? Yes, that's right! Something different. Half the song is different, which is more than I can say for many other loop-heavy mixes that have been accepted without so much as a blink of an eye.

Now, about the remix. I really enjoy the weighty feel of the pulse. It's very tangible, as are many other elements, including the muff-distorted drums at 2:10 and 4:36. The "Item Room" theme was great at 1:54, and the 8-bit bass coming in at 2:26, genius.

The repetitive nature of the song is what makes it stand out from many mixes that try to "go somewhere" but end up being convoluted and difficult to sit through. It's a minimalist piece that fits the style of the music that inspires it. Thank you Marc Star, I'll be the first to say it.

[Orochi Shoto]

I enjoyed this one a lot also. It kinda gets me in the same mood as Cammy's London Drizzle, which is a very good thing...

[Teliskopic]

Mmmm I love the beat this song gives, I think it sounds good that it repeats and then broken up by different songs. I hardly scratched the surface of this game, so hearing all this is quite good, moody and grooving along. A bit like the groove I get from hearing Rosetta Refrain.

[Protricity]

Wow, so much controversy. I speculate that what happened here was a backlash against minimalist style (which, curiously, few of the persons attacking this mix have mastered). That being the case, I have to say something in the song's defense. Stating that the drum beat loops "virtually nonstop for 6 minutes" (I won't name names) not only reveals a prejudice against the song but is false (we could call it a lie). The drum loop in question plays for a combined 190 seconds of the song. What does that make the other 180 seconds? Yes, that's right! Something different. Half the song is different, which is more than I can say for many other loop-heavy mixes that have been accepted without so much as a blink of an eye.
Look up the definition of 'virtually', and then realize that those who tend to be against 'mastered minimalist' songs also tend to be against loop-heavy mixes that are passed in a blink of an eye. Beyond that, I stated that the other '180' seconds, which isn't really that much was a great direction this song should have expended upon further. If you look at marc's other songs (which I adore) you'd find far more melodic expansion, far more change and creativity, and far less blatant repetition. And finally, instead of controversy and offense, certain people in here should just realize that those of us with this opinion are only displaying an opinion. That’s it. There is never a right or wrong with music. So please end the attitude and combative nature in the review forum, and just review.

[Fridge]

Yeah guys, Prot's right, only he should be allowed to criticize someone else's opinion in the process of making his own, the rest of you just stick to stating the facts.

Anyway, I enjoyed it. That's about all the analysis I feel like putting into music.

[MarcstaR]

Sup everyone, Thanks alot for the great reviews and criticism. To tell you the truth, I think it's a bit repetitive too. Actually I wrote this track about the same time I wrote "Kasugano Booty Mix". Anyways, thanks again.
Marc Star

[djpretzel]

Uh, this seems pretty simple. If you wanna say the mix is repetitive, just say it - hell, the ReMixer himself agrees, to some extent. If you wanna go further and argue that there's structural problems, or anything else, that's cool too. If you wanna say "I never would have passed this," that's fine too.

It's only problematic when you go further and say that the mix's approval represents fundamental problems with the panel or conclusively illustrates some sort of bias. Not only is that hard to prove - or disprove - it's also not directly related to what YOU think about THIS mix. This isn't too much to ask, and usually it's not a problem. Take out three or four words from Ari's original post, for example, and the rest of it is fine by me, although I might personally disagree with it.

Some of the responses to this very brief diss to the panel may have been overreactions, but seeing as the catalyst was easy to avoid, it's more productive to simply make your reviews about the piece, not the people who judged or posted it, and leave it at that.

Then you won't be "attacked" and the galaxy will be at peace.

For my money, I agree with many, including the ReMixer, that the piece is at times repetitious. I think Binnie's point about the last two minutes is fairly accurate. However, I feel there are other aspects that compensate enough for this.

[chokst~1.bat]

I can only hear around 40% out of my right ear right now, and this song still sounds very full and clear sounding for me on headphones (unlike just about every other song I have, which lose alot of quality when I have these ear problems).

I read all the reviews before downloading, so I expected something pretty uninspiring. Normally I'm not a fan of repetition, but this had alot of clever and interesting things going on, and held my interest all the way through. I think it's great. It's executed very cleanly and with alot of good breaks and ideas. The song structure is a very nice change from the mainstream hits, it leaves every new surprise feeling even more special as they unfold. The wide range of sound techniques and effects puts this song above alot of other stuff on OCR for me.

I could comment about which sections triggered me in an imaginative and positive way, but I'd probably name just about everything, as it's all quite fascinating. I like experimental pieces, and this lets me eat whatever I want from the buffet... without trying to shove it down my face. This song tells me that while the sun is shining, you can be walking outside at a relaxed pace in summer or winter, and there's always colourful things going on for you to find inside the scenery. Great stuff.

[jordex]

wow that EP surprised me

i thought i was listening to adhesive boy for a second there but thats a good thing, i love adhesive boy (in a non sexual way)

now is this a 6 minute extension to just the secret area and title theme? thats pretty amazing

i dont think its too repetitive but then i consider it as just background music rather than lyric

soo anyways, the mix isnt bad, its nice to just have playing through your head phones while your browsin the forums

the highlight of the song is the EP

[playingtokrush]

I'll agree with vig, as usual. This is one of the most non-intuitive songs I've ever heard. Seems the only reason it passed is due to the usual 'groove' bias. Hard to believe that any simple drum loop could be so groovy that it justifies looping virtually nonstop for 6 minutes on the same key with minimal changes on ye old metroid title theme. One redeeming quality is perhaps the break at 1:00. Its certainly a good direction this song could have taken to be more interesting. unfortunately it dies off quickly. Reappears later (loop) and dies again. A multitude of problems upon that; delayed strings show yet again that good samples still require a discipline of skill or they just sound bad. I will say the loop loop loop nature of this song is fitting as the standards here appear to loop loop loop downward in a spiral to oblivion.
There’s no justification here. Marc Star is WAY WAY better than this. A great example would be one of my all time favorite ocremixes 'Wild Arms RosettaRefrain OC ReMix' towards which this doesn't manage even the same realm of quality. Or of course 'Final Fantasy 8 Fantasy Rush OC ReMix'. No dice here.
I want Protricity's seed.

[zyko]

this blew clear out of proportion.

also - since when is the quality of music tied to how repetitive it is? say what you will about this track but don't make such a fundamentally senseless implication.

[Coucou]

The repetition doesn't shock me here.
The positions of the breaks are, IMHO, correct.

Excellent strings section !!!
Good bass sounds and patterns.

Yeah, this mix enters my favorite OCRs collection.

[AmishNinja]

i hate to critizise cause i know my stuff sucks mega in comparison...but it's just too damn repetitive.

[dfcentre]

I must admit that after downloading and listening to it, I Shift+Deleted it without a second thought. Honestly I couldn't feel anything in this track. I'm not an musicalphile but when something sounds like that... Come on lets be realistic here. Its nothing special.

I'd like to know how long it stays on anyone's favourites list.

[jordex]

its on mine







BUT FOR HOW LONG?! as you asked

[Solin]

I would kill several puppies for the sake of having an entire remix done in the style of the bit from 1:03-1:20. 17 seconds of pure gold, and 5 and a half minutes of meh. The ambient stuff isn't bad, but let's face; Ambient + Metroid has been done, and done, and done, and done, and done. That 17 second bit is absolutely awesome though. Tough call on this one, but I've just been listening to generic Metroid ambient OCs for too long.

Oh, I also like the bit at 3:00 with the strings.

[Nobbynob Littlun]

That one beat panned hard right bothers my ear - even at low volume, the inbalance gets me. Still, pretty groovy, but I would have cut WAY back on the grooviness and had more of the aforementioned 1:03-1:20.

[Khrystoph]

This is just the track I need when I roll through the Zebes hood blastin' on punk-ass Space Pirates.

Nice-nice

[KonohaSenpou]

At first this song reminded me of Akira..

The slow groovey-ness of it is very relaxing though :)

[Chiana]

excellent, chill, funky track. I listened to it for about 30 minutes straight and zoned a bit. Its an interesting interpretation of the metroid "feel"

[Harmony]

What is it about that beat that keeps me coming back to this mix time and time again? Its been at the top of my rotation since it was posted. Great work Marc.

[Mustin]

This is still one of my all-time favourite arrangements.

Fantastic stuff. I love the groove, I love the samples, and I love that Rhodes break-down like nothing else.

Great job, Marc. This is my favourite mix of yours. Definitely still gets played often after all of this time.

Hope to hear more of your stuff sometime! Where've you been?

[HoboKa]

Hehe this is one good crack induced metroid remix :D i love it.
Although it burned out a long time ago...its still good just meh.

[DrunkenSage]

I guess when judging on all the things you look for; you may not want the beat to reley on drumloops and catchyness. Though, I think this is one of the dopest beats i've heard on the site. I like AmiEvil & Mazedude. I just feel that there should be no reason this would not be accepted onto your site. But wow... I guess it was a close call? This is gonna raise the bar for me.

[Dhsu]

Just came back to this indirectly through a thread in the forums, and hot dang this is sexy times. I actually think the fact that the Rhodes break is so short really adds to the anticipation of its next appearance in the recap. And the strings at 3:00 are <3. This is the first ReMix I've saved to my hard drive in a long time.

[OA]

Great beat, nice rhodes and strings, and though it does get a little worn down near the end. Classy otherwise, I think a little bit of editing and this would be a superstar.

[keptil]

I didn't really enjoy this style. I'm not saying its bad, production wise i'd give it a high score, i think it was really well made.
But just not my genre of choice. Excellent enough to comment though.

[MechaFone]

One of my absolute favorite remixes to come from a Metroid title. This baby keeps me moving as long as it plays!