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View Full Version : How do you rock makers make good-sounding drums for you songs?


The Legendary Zoltan
12-03-2009, 05:24 AM
I make a lot of rock/metal tracks and I'm pretty sure that I need better drums.
First of all, I'd need a VST or something that is compatible with Sonar 5.
Secondly, I'd like to know how the people who don't have midi drum pads input the drum parts. Do you just click them in and then alter the velocities one-by-one?
And Thirdly, the following file is my usual drum set. May I please have feedback about why it may or may not be good?
http://www.mediafire.com/?zmzxou3kjlt

Thank you very much in advance.

GarretGraves
12-03-2009, 07:46 AM
I HIGHLY recommend Superior Drummer 2.0: http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=30

and yeah, I click them in the piano roll and adjust the velocity for each hit. It may sound tedious at first but you get use to it and quick at it real fast. And with this drum kit, you cant go wrong. The drums you got now sound robotic but you do use them efficiently. I think with this kit you'd be all good. Toontrack also makes other kinds of drumkits as you can see on their site. Take your pick and go nuts

For your guitar, you could really benefit from a Gearbox Gold edition for metal: http://line6.com/gearbox_plugin/
It cost me about $100 a year ago I think it should be the same price or cheaper by now. (I cant see the price on the site) The guitars you got now got no meat on them and lack equalization. This plugin is a cheap, easy way to get by with great quality.

LuketheXjesse
12-03-2009, 12:27 PM
I'd like to know how the people who don't have midi drum pads input the drum parts. Do you just click them in and then alter the velocities one-by-one?

Yup yup, exactly.

Also getting a good drum tone takes positioning of mics and filter settings and whatnot so that takes a little time. Either Addictive Drums or Superior 2.0 is your best bet. Superior is more difficult to use but offers more customization, or that's what SnappleMan says anyway. Both are fine choices, really.

The Legendary Zoltan
12-03-2009, 01:04 PM
UWAA! Addictive Drums is 250 bucks! I don't suppose there are any good ones out there for say... 100?

Also, it looks like they don't make that Gearbox thing anymore. Now it's Pod.

Meteo Xavier
12-03-2009, 02:18 PM
Do you have Kontakt? Groove Bias, which Zircon works on, did a pretty good drum kit and I think its around $100 last time I checked.

Level 99
12-03-2009, 02:53 PM
I believe guitar center has Addictive for $200, and it's honestly well worth the investment, at least for me it has been. With samples, especially drums, you usually get what you pay for: if you skimp on it and get a cheap set, it'll probably sound cheap and require a lot of tweaking and post work to get it to sound relatively convincing or of good quality. Superior and Addictive are the two best for what you're looking for, and their prices aren't terrible for what you're getting. I know Toontrack also makes those EZ Drummer kits which I believe are a bit cheaper, but again, you're getting what you pay for.

As for getting MIDI if one doesn't have a drum pad, there's a number of ways. Many people just do the click method, some use an alternative MIDI input like a keyboard (Harmony is a master of the keydrums, actually), some programs come with MIDI loops that make it easy to get a rough sound you want and then tweak it by mouse (like Addictive drums), and some places like Groove Monkey sell MIDI beats that work in a number of different drum programs. You're going to end up using the mouse at some point no matter what you do if you want to have any kind of customization or correction on what you're doing, but you'll probably get used to it pretty quickly.

I'm fairly certain anything compatible with VST will work in your Sonar 5, but do a little research first just to double-check.

Kanthos
12-03-2009, 03:40 PM
Do you have Kontakt? Groove Bias, which Zircon works on, did a pretty good drum kit and I think its around $100 last time I checked.

It might be usable (albeit uneditable) with the free Kontakt Player.

GarretGraves
12-03-2009, 10:08 PM
Also, it looks like they don't make that Gearbox thing anymore. Now it's Pod.

It's pretty much the same thing I think. I think the software is the same as what the Gearbox uses.

Nekofrog
12-03-2009, 10:40 PM
Maybe it's just me, but your current drum setup sounded just fine to me.

GarretGraves
12-04-2009, 07:31 AM
Maybe it's just me, but your current drum setup sounded just fine to me.

They're not hideous. They are actually decent. But the snare and cymbals and snare sound a bit too artifical at least for my taste. and when the kicks are pounding really fast it's very noticable they're fake.

OverCoat
12-04-2009, 09:56 AM
You could always ask a guy in the community to record live drums for you.

Just sayin'.

The Legendary Zoltan
12-04-2009, 09:09 PM
You could always ask a guy in the community to record live drums for you.

Just sayin'.

I have thought of that. But what if I want to sell the work? In that case I should pay the drummer right? How much do you pay for something like that?

To be honest, I've always liked the current drums I have, too. I've had them for freaking ever. The bass drum is exactly what I want in a bass drum. However, the strange thing is that whether it's played at 1 velocity or 100 velocity, the bass drum always sounds exactly the same. It's only the bass drum. Isn't that strange? But that's it. I have another drum set that has more realistic cymbals that I can use. So when people get rock remixes passed, they're usually using a 200-dollar set?

By the way, thanks for all your help guys. Just so you know, this was all started when I realized that I have a ton of great metal compositions laying around, and I'm hoping I can become some kind of online artist with them.

LITHE
12-05-2009, 11:28 PM
I havent tried superior drummer yet, but Im extremely happy with addictive drums! I have ez drummer and dfh expansion, but I always end up turning back to addictive drums. ez drummers kick drums sound really washed out and missing low frequencies. in other words I cant make it sound powerful and "punchy" no matter how I adjust it. though I do enjoy it for all the cymbals and crashes.
addictive drums is also really easy to tweak it to make it sound the way you want, and well worth the investment.

I HIGHLY recommend Superior Drummer 2.0: http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=30

I listened to the demos and I love that "narwhal - wash me away" song! too bad you cant download the demos like the EWQL demos :P

LuIzA
12-10-2009, 01:34 PM
the snare here is almst midi-like. the rest sounds alright, cymbals could use some volume though, they're being overpowered.

well, personally, I use Superior 2.0, and I love it to no end. Cheaper alternatives are EZ drummer and Addictive drums, as were already mentioned, which are also pretty good. EZ drummer is about 100 dollars last I checked, it's quite worth it from what I've heard of it. it also offers a ridiculous amount of expansions.

I don't know how it is with other software, but I use SD2.0 with a drum map in Sonar, for sequencing it's really easy that way. I'd also like to point out, should you consider SD2.0, that although it sounds good raw, it takes some skill/practice to get it to sound its best. it's almost like mixing a real set of drums (though one that's been recorded with a BADASS set of drums/cymbals, mics, room, drummer, engineers, etc). I have yet to learn more of how to handle it.

Souliarc
12-10-2009, 01:48 PM
Speaking of EZDrummer, if you get it from Sweetwater, you can get the EZDrummer bundle (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=ezdrummer+bundle&go=Search) which includes a $50 Korg Nano Trigger Pad (12 pads) for free!

Dafydd
12-10-2009, 01:49 PM
Afaik, there's a lot of music out there that has drums that doesn't even sound all that real, some of it commercial and with drums that sound like a standard GM set. Depends on your style of music, of course, but some highly successful bands use what sounds like 5 samples in some of their most successful songs.

Harmony
12-10-2009, 02:19 PM
Speaking of EZDrummer, if you get it from Sweetwater, you can get the EZDrummer bundle (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=ezdrummer+bundle&go=Search) which includes a $50 Korg Nano Trigger Pad (12 pads) for free!Teeeempting....

Chernabogue
12-11-2009, 12:20 PM
It has already been mentioned but Addictive Drums is really cool and sounds great. Its "Live" preset is just awesome.

Legion303
12-12-2009, 03:06 AM
I use BFD, sometimes to good effect. A large part of getting that authentic rock sound is to think about how it's done in a studio and replicate it. I usually isolate and separately effect each kit piece onto its own track, but the overall sound is better when I remember to add a room mix (whole kit) too, with subtle reverb. On an album you'll have one track for overhead mics, one for a mic or two aimed at the kit from a few feet away, one in the kick drum, and maybe one on the high and mid toms. There is a lot of bleeding audio this way, adding to the huge sound.

-steve