OCR01347 - Ghosts'n Goblins 'Wanka Factory'

[djpretzel]

What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix.

[NNY]

I like, I like.

[GrayLightning]

As I predicted many moons ago, the groin shall rise again. :)

[Souliarc]

Pretty sweet, I do favor the bass line. Adds even more to that goofy factory appeal :)

G'job sir, and apparently, welcome back.

[Darangen]

I love you Shael.

Awesome stuff dude!

[Sinewav]

Shael, will you marry me?

[TCK]

I'm just glad that "Tempted Teenager Treat Treated" crap made the cut from EAR :D

Good job Shael, I'm rather critical of your fabled "Music Of My Groin", but this more than makes up for it, and proves you're not just a one trick pony (although to be fair, I knew that anyway).

[Trenthian]

it was indeed bound to be the 2nd earmix to make it onto OCR.


I love you shael.


Ill eat your children.

[Liontamer]

The hotness.

[Navi]

The groin hath returned!


edit: needs more 'what is a man'

[The Orichalcon]

I'm not digging this. Sounds too generic to me.

[Compyfox]

At last... this track is finally online!

[Harmony]

pimp. straight, pimp.

All my Maryland peeps, listen for this one blasting from the factory speakers of a silver Civic.

[Navi]

pimp. straight, pimp.

All my Maryland peeps, listen for this one blasting from the factory speakers of a silver Civic.

And there are many of us!

[SleazyC]

And there are many of us!
Damn straight!

err.....

[RimFrost the Tourianist]

The guy who has stopped making music based on his groin is back. Nice.
A different take on the G&G game's most memorable tune i'm sure. And i kindof liked it :o

[ella guro]

I have to agree with Gray in his decision. The theme is definitely expanded on adequately and there's a fair amount of interesting and different things going on. But there's just something...annoying about the way everything is rearranged.

I think a lot of it is due to some pretty poor mixing - the drums especially lack punch and beefiness, and the lead synth is thin and piercing in an unappealing way. Still, some of it is the instrumentation. The strings chug along without much dynamic work involved, and the melody is chopped up rythmically awkward in places, which almost makes it a worse expansion of the original.

The bass and the bell synth are well done and there are other redeeming factors about the mix, but overall the mixing/effects processing needed to be reworked a lot and I think the instrumentation and arrangement should've been refined to make it less of a frustrating mix to listen to.

[Compyfox]

Usually if I'm influenced in helping an artist/ mixer I don't give additional feedback on a community page too. But as engineer of this song, especially in the last stages till the song was submitted (which was a 3 week span or so), I have to say that Gray is totally off the crack. At least in a couple of cases.

It is true that this mix is not the "best mix ever produced" but to critisize that the "beat has no punch" or "I can do better orchestra electronic shit" (spoken through the flower) is yet another thing of own preferences reflected by a judge that counts as ultimate definition. In other words "I'm a judge nothing else counts" and we all know the rest of the story where we can quarrel about that for months.

Anyway... Like I said I was influenced in the postproduction of this song and helped Shael mostly in volume, EQ and soundshaping issues. The first track I got from him (the version before this final one) was non EQed and non edited. I took my time for the song after I had all raw tracks from Shael and produced for him a pre-mix that was "previewed" by a couple of judges to get some feedback (the only issues were that we were asked to rewrite some minor parts and make the drums a bit more quiet - and all loved the drums btw). Part of the judges who prelistened to the remix and gave positive feedback also judged and aprooved it with a YES, if you're interested.


But back on topic.
In the end Shael redid some parts (the strings at the end in a different key, a bit more bass work, synth a bit more random) of the song and asked me for 3 engineered stereo tracks (the drums and the made-on-purpose older sounding strings) that he wanted to take over from me (and also did). After that he started to use my last mixdown as starting point for his mixing skills which turned out pretty well.

So what you hear is actually some mixing techniques from Shael and myself. And you don't want to know how lush some tracks or especially the old drums sounded. The "punchy feeling" (that you critisize that's missing, which isn't true) was produced with heavy EQ work, saturation and compression. Anyone can use loops but those single stabs are truly unique. The only thing I didn't like in the original was the a bit too loud blearing bass and the chopped off strings. However they add more agression to the track. And who says that a mix of electronic always has to have a uberproduced orchestra anyway!

Allowed is what sounds and seems to fit best, is it not?!
The only thing I did in the end (after sharing ideas with Shael, engineered wav tracks, prelistening, critism, letting Shael fix mixing issues) was simply mastering the final stereo mix into the version you hear now. And that's the whole story that you can also read here:

http://www.studio-compyfox.de/guestartist/shael_riley/Ghosts'N_Goblins_Wanka_Factory_OC_ReMix.txt


Personally I think, aside from the voice samples which let this song sound goofy, this remix is one of the best (if not the best) Ghouls 'n Ghosts remixes on OCR. And before anyone says "this thing lacks punch", I want to hear your attemp on remixing and high end audio engineering. ;)

But that's just my opinion.

[krispy]

No use arguing with facts like those. Egotism goes a long ways.

[November]

Hey, I really like it. Minus the weird vocals that start at around 2:00 (Not bad weird, just weird), I'd rather like this in-game.

For the criticism, I like the punch, not weak by any means, but not gut-quiveringly strong. Cool synth tune that lilts all around, adds to the complexity and allows you to just listen and let the tune carry you.

[Txai]

Rawr! ^_^

This is curious, exotic and funky! Remembers me of Ghouls'n Ghosts. By the way is the same game?

Nice ReMix.

[Red Shadow]

Your English hurts me, Txai.

Anyway, this remix is plenty of different kinds of enoyable, most notably in the aural spectrum.

[jordex]

Haar I likey! But why the hell isn't Shael busting out his crazy freestyle?

When that snare came in I was waiting for the song to break out into some insane Shael rap buuut it never happened. However the vocals that are in the song are just fuckin sweet, make em louder!

and make the song longer!! ARgh

[chokst~1.bat]

I have to say that Gray is totally off the crack.
I'm not very fond of hearing your opinions being spoken like they're facts Compyfox. You're allowed to have an opinion, but you really shouldn't be trying to dictate to people how to think in a reviews thread. Graylighting had some very legitimate issues with this song, and you seem to be trying to change his words around into something much worse; to the point where it just makes your claims invalid. Obviously, you have something against Gray for some reason which is beyond what he's talking about here. Most of the judges said that they had a few issues with the song, and this was somewhat not your fault and unfixable from your position, but if you actually paid attention... Gray actually complimented your engineering. Get the facts straight, and keep in mind that everyone has their own focuses when judging; some of which you may have not have even considered (which would mean that you are arguing for no reason, since you're just assuming that you know what they actually meant [but you really didn't] when you're saying that they're wrong).

I think you're pretty shallow if you didn't understand at least one concept of what Gray meant when he said that he felt the drums lacked punch. Punch doesn't just mean being loud and in your face, it also means being something that keeps your attention all the way through. How is using snares and hi-hats that don't ever change in velocity and frequency (not to mention not EVER blending in with the more submerged/filtered instruments in the background; always maintaining that exact same clean and mechanical foreground presence), going to give your song an accurate "it has punch" compliment? Each of those drum samples have no sustain whatsoever either, and the actual beat never changes that much. They also sound very General Midi-ish, which doesn't make it any funner to hear them for the entire length of the song. They appear to be in their own channel and on a constant loop, with a few minor changes here and there (that are never based on anything beyond pattern selection and actual sample notes being played); every other aspect of the drums is completely oblivious to the feeling and flow of everything else going on.

Not sure if any of this is what Gray was talking about, but it could open you up a little to the fact that people do have opinions that are different than yours; which shouldn't be used to try and mock them and gain sympathy from others (or to preach your "superior technical facts"). Everyone feels things that are true for them. :P

[sgx]

I gotta say the first thing that stuck out to me is that the drums are way too squashed in my opinion. Too much compression. The snare sounds weak to me. It sounds like someone slapping a wet towel on the floor and not a snare gettin smacked. The midrange of the snare has been eq'ed out which also adds to the lack of punch. I don't like the kick sample either. The rest of the song is pretty funky stuff. Good bassline. Enjoyable arrangement. Some of the synths are weaksauce. The drum programming is pretty decent. Ayayay.

[danny B]

I see a lot of pointless bitching here, and a lot of bleeding-heart propaganda serving several different persuasions. My feelings on this song are outlined in the judgement, and I don't think it's necessary to state them again.

But i'm seeing people write criticisms along the lines of "I don't like how your snare drum sounds, so the mastering sucks". This thread has been about 10% constructive and 90% self-serving personal-vendetta bullshit. You CANNOT tell me that this mix doesn't contain an appreciable amount of originality, style, and effort. I'd like to paraphrase djp in saying that sometimes a tune is not served by a flawless LA production job. Also - i'm positive that certain people with certain opinions wouldn't feel that way if they were judges. What better way to show that the judges are inept than heavily criticizing an accepted song? And how ironic that the artist has himself been critical of the judging process?

I'm seeing a bunch of undeserved criticism of graylightning as well. More pointless personal vendettas. Anyone who has talked to Gray for more than 5 minutes knows that he is a wonderful human being. I don't see how anyone can even construe his conduct as being hurtful or spiteful. Again, ridiculous behavior by disenfranchised individuals.


It's a bunch of bullshit - and serves no purpose here. At the risk of losing my own post, i'd hope that the mods delete all the irrelevant posts. Behave yourselves - quit acting like such miserable little shits, and get back to enjoying the reason you should be here. The Music.

To quote the brilliant Gene Wilder, "Good DAY, Sir!".

-D

[anclunn]

Messed up man. Glad too. There's not enough crazy stuff round here. I mean it kind of makes you ask why? But then again why not, right? Trippy, all that needs to be said for those who hear it.

[Compyfox]

I didn't flame Gray, dammit. He's a friend if mine so why should I? I only commented his opinion that was a bit off (didn't I say partially in my last post?! I guess I said something like that!), told what work was put into and that I do not agree with certrain comments that were made. I mean this mix was over 2 years (including waiting times on OCR) in the making and Shael asked me to help out in the end. Now all are like "suck! next track please - gimme something more creative" as if they're "gods at (re)mixing".

I also wrote that this mix has issues too. Even though I did some work on it but I can only "fix issues" if I get a good root material for my editing. And now the critism is all like "oh man just SFTU and stop flaming Gray" what I really can't believe. Now I'm the bad guy that tried to show off as "uber-mixer". Thanks again, tells me not to comment a remix anymore.


But oh well... like Danny B. said if you want LA productions, you're totally wrong here (even though this mix works perfectly on the air). This mix is obviously a joke remix and aimed at that. But I guess you're already too spoiled with highend standards, trance, orchestra and piano material. But then again you're mad at the panel if your mix doesn't get posted. Shael showed endurance and worked on the track... And it got posted, even with issues. Can you show that much patience too?!

In the end... it's just music. But the last posts showed me that making music can be an outragous (profilation) war too.

[SPIKENOX07]

it is ok. i agree, the words are kind of different.

[progressive]

I agree with my mom, who said, "Oh my, are you listening to that ethnic music again?" Just kidding, I don't have a mom. Am I at 200 yet?

[ella guro]

Also - i'm positive that certain people with certain opinions wouldn't feel that way if they were judges. What better way to show that the judges are inept than heavily criticizing an accepted song? And how ironic that the artist has himself been critical of the judging process?

Dunno if this part is supposed to be a jab at me and the thread about the judges I made awhile ago, but if it is I'd like to say that it's a pretty erroneous conclusion to draw. I talked to Gray about this mix right after he voted in the panel, and I told him that despite my problems that I mentioned with the mix, I still would've voted "YES" on it if I were him.

That being said, if I write a review of a mix, it's implied that everything I say in the review is my opinion (and I find it annoying and redundant to say "but that's just my opinion"). No one in this community is the ultimate authority, so I certainly am not and I'm not claiming to be. You also have to understand that I'm going to be more harsh on something that's been accepted onto OCR, because the review forums generally garner a lot of praise and not much else, so I want to present my opinion on things. Whether other people consider them to be valid or not is completely up to them. Obviously saying the the rearrangement was "annoying" was an opinion, and I didn't expect anyone to think otherwise of it, because using a word like "annoying" that you can't exactly prove suggests that it's an opinion.

As far as the "personal vendetta" stuff, I don't know where you're coming from with that. I find Shael to be incredibly irritating and unfunny and his campaign for judge equally as irritating and unfunny. But that doesn't carry over at all to a review of his mix, and I'm a little insulted that someone would think it does. It's not like I'm going through and reviewing each of his mixes saying "this sucks". I like to see people improve regardless of how I feel about them personally, and I still think Shael has a lot of problems (a lot of which can be fixed using something like Reason to it's capability) that neither him or Compy are willing to acknowledge, or even respectfully disagree with.

And the panel thing? Did you even understand what the thread was about that I made? What would I gain from posting in this thread criticising this mix only out of personal vendetta and "to make the panel look bad"? The better question is, why would I care about proving the panel wrong and why would anyone else care that I had a dissenting opinion? If you connect the dots, you'll see that none of it makes any sense.

Anyway, this is assuming that was directed towards me. It's too vague and veiled an attack for me really know if it's specifically talking about one person or more than one person. If you have any issues with something I write, please PM me and you can sort whatever out with me you need to sort out.

But for God sakes, don't do it here. It's bullshit to try to spend my time figuring out what I did to piss someone off and if they're making an attack at me or not. It hurts more than it helps, it makes more things vauge than it clears up, and you should know better. The only irony in this is that someone who's accusing others of being pathetic is making a lot of pathetic accusations. Do the math, talk to me, and don't make up shit.

[Selyget]

this song rules... http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/cool/1/cool20.gif

[ILLiterate]

And when I use reason I only find samples that dont help me 8O o well nice song, I like it alot, simple but fun

[jordex]

In so many parts of the song I just wanted to just bust out rapping! If only I were any good at freestyle I would sing to the song but I ain't so I guess I'm outta luck... I seriously think this song would be perfect for some freestyle vocals over top like say come in with a pick up at 0:39. Am I the only one who's thinking this?!

[Finalburst]

I love remixes of horror type beats and this one was really nice and creative in my opinion!

It's good to stay away from the repeating loops of sounds and added beats like some remixers do.

It's just sweet all around!

You can always learn somthing if your not too careful.

[OmegaDonut]

Shael, gimme some more of that shimmy-soft synth rock.

Or horror hip-hopesque beats. Whatever the hell it may be.

[42]

It sounds like a some weird possessed techno circus. almost.
The clips from Willy Wonka were a nice, if quasi-creepy, touch.
Definitely not a bad mix.

[ella guro]

Quite a review thread here.

This one ain't doin' it for me. Good ideas, but I feel like the mixing could use some work. I think some of the sounds are kinda thin and could be more well chosen, and I also think those damn orchestra hit violins are kinda mechanical and overused.

I like some of Shael's other mixes too...I think here it just sounds less inspired. Like he's deliberately trying to do something of a particular genre but he doesn't quite get there. So it sounds like kind of an approximation of that style, where you can hear what the ideas are trying to be, but they're never quite executed well enough to get there.

With "Technomancy" I felt like he was just having fun with what he had and used his sounds really well, and I like it a lot because of that. With this mix it sounds like he's trying to do something more epic and respectable and it just feels like a crude approximation of epicness rather than what it wants to be.

I'm gonna ramble a little bit since this thread already has some of it: sometimes it seems like people are encouraged to make a certain kind of music, even when it goes against their instincts. I love OCR and video game music but I can't help feel like I'm insane when I listen to something that I feel is kind of uninspired and everyone else seems to really dig it. I think people always interpret non-positive comments about something as an attack, but to me it seems just better to take comments about the music at face value. I want people to grow, I want to hear them doing something interesting and fun and original, and I don't want to feel like they're just trying to make the kind of music that they think will make them more respected. I'm not necessarily saying that applies to this mix, just I don't think people should shy away from constructive criticism. It doesn't have to be about ego at all as long as people don't make it about that.

[OA]

dang a lot of text in the reviews for this one, so in order to not overfill the thread, i'll just say it was pretty good.