OCR01348 - Super Mario RPG 'Three Mushroom Dances'

[djpretzel]

What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix.

[Harmony]

:D Great work Jeremy. The transitions worked marvelously with everything being held together by a warm timbre that suits Mario RPG to a tee. The section at 2:22 was brief but it certainly made me smile. This piece is truly alive with excitement.

Very clean. Very enjoyable.

[PassivePretentiousness]

i'm utterly trashed but I can say one thing: the volume levels of all the instruments need MUCH better balancing. it makes incredible source material sound somewhat mediocre, the entire thing somewhat difficult to listen to, some of the samples sound awful, and as if it were trying to be someone entirely different (http://www.ocremix.org/detailremixer.php?mixerid=136).

Get my gist? Sudden transitions and stretched samples does not a good remix make [/wingless].

EDIT: and yes I can still catch the referance to the smw castle theme. So for now at least, my opinion holds.

[Dr. Wily]

There's no doubt, this sounds quite magnificent. There's some lovely arranging in there too, it's quite worthy of being played by a full orchestra. Darface may be onto something with the transitions though, they do sound a little forced. Regardless, the final tune employed 4:17-5:54 (Forest Maze?) is truly brilliant, I want to listen to that part over and over. Worthy of a djp direct post to be sure, well done!

[supremespleen]

Not bad. Sounds like something out of a High School band or something. Those little bird chirps are kinds of annoying though...

[SPIKENOX07]

this is a good remix, although i won't keep it. it is not one of my favorites. good job anyway.

[Txai]

Wow! It´s so cute! ^_^

I love all the instruments. Very calm music. The Mushroom Kingdom and Forest Theme are pretty cool. good contribution for the Super Mario RPG! ^^

Jeremy, your stuff is an inspiration. You won a new fan. And this ReMix is VERY recommended.

[Ralphis]

If I could get my hands on a source file for this song I might try and get my highschool band to play this for next year. We're pretty decent for a highschool so we might not butcher it too much


EDIT: and yes I can still catch the referance to the smw castle theme. So for now at least, my opinion holds.

Actually it's the forest from SMW

[artemisjaeger]

From a compositional standpoint this is freaking awesome. I can actually hear direct quotes from Dvorak's Slavonic Dances, so that's pretty entertaining. It does a good job of combining the two - an expert job, in fact.

The only problem is that the samples are way too cinematic-y. This is such a classical composition that the samples make it sound too... eh. The only way this could really shine is through live performance, but that's clearly impossible. And there are times where there is reverb that KILLS the mood. A lot of that is at the beginning where he imitates the first dance. At least, that's what I hear.

Still freakin' awesome, though. I'm glad to see Robson take a less "epic" approach to some music. The classical style is definitely missing from the ReMixing community.

[PassivePretentiousness]

First off, you're entirely right.

Actually it's the forest from SMW

Now I'll write a better review.


Right off the bat, the strings sound very muddy. They need to be seriously played with and have been known to cause lushes to assume entire songs suck. The accompanying percussion seems poorly sequenced and lacks real oomph. The sections with the flute are MUCH better and do provide excellent contrast. Yuck, the same problems with the strings are there again at 1:30.
The Nimbus Land theme seams somewhat better, but there are still an awful lot of problems with muddiness. Very few of the notes are nearly as crisp as they need to be. The insertation of the SMW forest theme is the first solid arrangement idea yet.
Around 2:50 the mix is sorta sitting around doing nothing... maybe it's trying to come to a climax, but I have no idea because it's so muddy. There seems to be an *attempt* at a smooth transition at 4:20, but it really seems to jump anyways.
The Forest Maze theme seems to be the best of the three, but it's also the song that has gotten the most coverage, which is dissapointing. There seems to be some attempts at reinterpreting the melody, such at the five minute mark, but to me at least they seem more like bad notes than genuine reworking of a theme. There is finally some real arrangement at 5:45. I like the chimes (although they are to loud), and it's unfortunate that they then quickly disappear.
I really don't like the ending. It seems like you were finally trying to bring in some more arrangement, then the song died.

There are some consistent problems, like the brass. Many of the issues here are similar to the ones with a previous submission nearly rejected by the judges panel. (http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=44907) That brass sample that was pooped on is still being used very poorly.

Furthermore, the lack of arrangement is really killing me. All of the SMRPG themes have an element that lends them very easily to remixing. Look at the two Booster Tower themes- they are both pretty short, maybe around :30, but they have produced awesome remixes here and elsewhere. (http://www.oneupstudios.com/oum.php) You got a minute thirty out of Bean Valley. Each of these songs, by themselves, has enough material for a six minute orchestral piece.
djpretzel said that these songs lend themselves very well to orchestral. That's true. However, if you strip away, say the addition of the SMW forest theme from the Nimbus Land section, what are you left with? An instrument upgrade. These songs were orchestrals to begin with.

This ReMix isn't awful, but the fact that many are already refering to this as something a high school band would play is very telling. The entire song sounds somewhat amateur with awesome source material and phat samples.

[CopycattVII]

Okay, the lsat review was forgetting one major point. Yes music is about how it sounds, but also the story that it tells. Now, from my theory, this was indeed a fine arrangment. I was kept interested through out the entire piece. In some parts I was excited, and quickly reconized the super mario world bit which added a bit of humor. One thing about music, and more or less, Super Mario RPG was about humor. And it made perfect sense. Remeber the clasic Mario reference in the game when you were at Boosters Tower? Its like that, a bit of humor and fun. I like the mood of the piece, festive, happy, very well writen.

Overall this is a great Orcehstral ReMix.

People must note that syth strings can only go so far with ceartain insterments, and shouldn't judge on how they sounds.

And we shouldn't also forget the magic in the music. Cover to Soul, Soul to mind.

Keep up the good work Sir.

[Sil]

Right off the bat, the strings sound very muddy. They need to be seriously played with and have been known to cause lushes to assume entire songs suck. The accompanying percussion seems poorly sequenced and lacks real oomph. The sections with the flute are MUCH better and do provide excellent contrast. Yuck, the same problems with the strings are there again at 1:30.

You show me a better example of string or percussion sampling, and I’ll tell you why it lacks “real oomph”. I’m using several samples from the 20th century, here. If you think there’s something wrong with my orchestrations, however, that’s an entirely different issue.

The Nimbus Land theme seams somewhat better, but there are still an awful lot of problems with muddiness. Very few of the notes are nearly as crisp as they need to be.

Again with the samples… believe me if I had the money I’d get better ones especially for you.

Around 2:50 the mix is sorta sitting around doing nothing... maybe it's trying to come to a climax, but I have no idea because it's so muddy. There seems to be an *attempt* at a smooth transition at 4:20, but it really seems to jump anyways.

I landed on a pedal D major, but it wasn’t a dominant pedal since I was mostly in C major, so I moved up block chords to the dominant G major as a simple, yet effective retransition. If you think it seemed to jump back in to the faster pacing too suddenly like that, I suggest you don’t listen to any Mahler symphonies.

The Forest Maze theme seems to be the best of the three, but it's also the song that has gotten the most coverage, which is dissapointing. There seems to be some attempts at reinterpreting the melody, such at the five minute mark, but to me at least they seem more like bad notes than genuine reworking of a theme.

That’s called a variation.

There is finally some real arrangement at 5:45. I like the chimes (although they are to loud), and it's unfortunate that they then quickly disappear.

Yes, there seems to be this reoccurring idea of “sudden movement” in an orchestral dance piece for some reason. Ever listen to Brahms much?

I really don't like the ending. It seems like you were finally trying to bring in some more arrangement, then the song died.

You’re right, it did.

There are some consistent problems, like the brass. Many of the issues here are similar to the ones with a previous submission nearly rejected by the judges panel. That brass sample that was pooped on is still being used very poorly.

Is that my fault, or Dan Dean’s? Or how about Elliot Goldenthal’s? It's a bass trombone. It enhances the regular trombones because without it you wouldn't hear them, and they have some important parts.

Furthermore, the lack of arrangement is really killing me. All of the SMRPG themes have an element that lends them very easily to remixing. Look at the two Booster Tower themes- they are both pretty short, maybe around :30, but they have produced awesome remixes here and elsewhere. You got a minute thirty out of Bean Valley. Each of these songs, by themselves, has enough material for a six minute orchestral piece.
djpretzel said that these songs lend themselves very well to orchestral. That's true. However, if you strip away, say the addition of the SMW forest theme from the Nimbus Land section, what are you left with? An instrument upgrade. These songs were orchestrals to begin with.

There’s more arrangement here than in most of my arrangements. First, notice the subtle counterpoint during every single phrase! If that’s not enough, there are several variations on the themes, harmonic modulations, and most importantly: motivic fragmentation. I spent a long time putting these things in. The least you could do is drop your biases (http://www.ocremix.org/detailremixer.php?mixerid=136) and acknowledge that this is more than just an "instrument upgrade". Do you need the MIDI file or something, because I'm afraid you're just not getting it.

This ReMix isn't awful, but the fact that many are already refering to this as something a high school band would play is very telling. The entire song sounds somewhat amateur with awesome source material and phat samples.

Most of the samples are far from "phat". Very far. The ones that stand out like the Harp and Horns are the good ones. And if it sounds like a High School band piece, that’s great. My High School band played Slavonic Dances, which is where I first heard the piece.

Sudden transitions and stretched samples does not a good remix make

Sure it does. It did right here. Don’t be so quick to pass off this piece as an "instrument upgrade" because there are a few things you didn’t like. You didn’t even mention some of the issues I was mostly concerned with, which makes me all the more the happier, as well as all the more skeptical of your criticisms.

To everyone else: Thank you for your comments and well-informed criticisms.

[krispy]

I really love your composition here, it is varied, dynamic, and fun. The transitions are good and your tones and textures create a lucious atmosphere.

Sample wise, there is nothing really wrong what is used here. It is mediocre by professional standards, but its how you use it that counts. I think your biggest problem is your reverb. It sounds like you are using unmodified Gigastudio Reverb, which is bad. It has no low cut and a super long tail muddying up the hall when a lot of bassy or windy instruments play.

I don't know what you are using, so I can't really suggest any options, but try and mess with what you have to lighten up the tail and make a bass cut.

[jordex]

Ah cool, definatly something you'ld hear back in concert band in highschool

I've been waiting forever for another SMRPG remix

I especially love the very faint harp at some parts, the Nimbus land section and that one SMW forest part.

That last bit right before the end I really enjoyed as well but that quickly went away

So anyways, obviously Robson's a professional composer, this is really impressive, gret job Jeremy!

[bananabomberman]

Ahh nice stuff. Reminds me of bunch of other games too :) Haven't played SMRPG in so long, this song brins back fun memories :wink:

[FM]

Excellent, I had forgotten about how great the SMRPG soundtrack was. It's also nice whenever we get a brand of orchestra on OCR that doesn't try to be a film score. Not that movie music is bad by any means, but new things are always nice.

[Hitman]

it was a well composed and a well-rounded song. this one deserves a thumbs up. :D

[Less Ashamed Of Self]

Man, even with soundfont knowledge, I don't know how the orchestral buffs can be SO good at what they do. While it has moments where it doesn't sound live, this sounds live 90% of the time.

Oh and the source tune & arrangement makes the idea of not having this hosted ludicris. Very very very nice for any SMRPG/orchestral fan.

[ella guro]

I agree with the criticisms of this mix in one respect - that there could be less reverb on everything and more work done on the mastering and mixing.

Otherwise, I think this is compositionally pretty strong. There's a lot of subtle stuff you won't necessarily notice the first time, but comes out after a second or third listen (I remember hearing the forest of illusion music from super mario world in there somewhere). There's also a lot more attention to detail and little additions that set this apart from a typical conservative orchestral medley and make it more rewarding after multiple listens. I do think some more clarity in the mixing could've helped sections like 5:33 where the percussion feels distant and the horns feel a bit awkward and isolated.

But overall, this is well done, and I feel like the main points of the couple criticisms it's been recieving aren't very accurate.

[Wanderer]

I'm starting to think that a Super Mario RPG arrangement project would be truly spectacular. I'm playing this after Booster Tarantino, followed by Jeremy's own Mushroom Wedding song, and finished with Russell Cox's remix of Geno's Theme, and it feels as if I'm playing the game for the 100th time again.

But yeah, about this mix. Could it be possible that the mixing quality of this suffered because Jeremy had to fit it at 6 megs? At 6:38, and 6 megs, this is about as good as the quality is going to get. Enjoyed this song immensely, excellent combination of these three themes, and a great sense of the game's style.

[TheDro]

Woah! nimbus land, so cool! :D and I like the school band effect.I'm in one for the last year. I enjoy the transition at 1:50, it turns to the clouds :o and finally 2:29 what I believe is violins. Very fun and grandiose remix all at once. Thank you for your hard work

[Chrono721]

This is a very interesting piece in the sense that it changes themes rather rapidly. Jeremy does the transitions very well. Great job.
-Chrono721

[Meiguoren]

I've been a fan of Jeremy Robson for years now and have yet to be disappointed by his work.

While this piece is more whimsical and perhaps more disjointed than his previous pieces, the individual sections work so very well that the slight flaws are easily overlooked.

Robson is a master arranger and composer, and this latest work hopefully will provide a little insight to the work of this man. I urge you all to check out his other pieces, as they all manage to maintain complex and emotional orchestral pieces.

Nice work, Jeremy. Keep on keeping on.

[Jabberbox]

anyway

nice track it is well made, but
its like an infinity long!

[editted]

[DarkeSword]

I really liked this piece. Lots of nice composition ideas and expansion of the original material. Good work.

On another note: for those of you reviewing, make sure you're commenting on the remix, not on why you're pissed there isn't a sequel to SMRPG, or proposing a SMRPG project, etcetc. :whatevaa:

[AMDgeek]

I really, REALLY enjoy this mix. The variation of tempos, styles, instrumentation, and mood are quite inviting. I want to keep this on loop, but I don't want to overplay it!

I can say that the beginning strings sounded a bit shaky because of the accelerated tempo + the samples. But that's my only real quibble. I love the orchestral setup. You have done a fantastic job putting some of the best music from the Mario series into a truely classic ReMix. I hold this music close to my heart because of the personality, the humor, and the musicality. You've more than captured all of this. Very nice job. You had best keep up the good work, because I need more orchestral ReMixes in my collection!

I also enjoyed the SMW Forest lick you put in there. It was a humorous and extremely effective transition in my oppinion.

Keep it up! This is awesome!

[Zekian]

This track goes from great to fantastic right when the Forest Maze theme kicks in. That's just... incredible. Bravo!

[Jillian Aversa]

This is a really great arrangement! The beginning actually sounds a lot like the famous Russian Dance movement from the Nutcracker. Like djp said, you can easily imagine a conductor actually conducting this.

The sounds samples aren't fantastic, but that actually doesn't bother me so much. I just think the "hall" sounds muddy, overall. The parts aren't clear, and there is very little dynamic contrast. Even the lighter parts sound about the same as the middle and ending sections, which should probably reach fortissimo.

What I especially like about your arrangement, though, is its sensitivity. I feel like I get a great sense of what you, the composer, had in mind. :D

[Blake]

This is a great listen. As a SMRPG fan, this is pretty sweet. Jeremy Robson, you're awesome. You always put in actual effort and creativity to arrange with good samples, which is why you are one of my favs on this site(as you also inspire me to arrange orchestral style to no avail). That probably doesn't mean anything coming from some kid, but yea. GJ :)

[Bass Clef Man]

Jeremy has to be one of my favourite mixers on this site. I love how this remix was done, especially because I really can see a school band playing this. In terms of the mix itself, my favourite bit is probably around 5:34; the change of tempo/style here is great. I really like the Forest Maze section in general, the bassoon at the beginning, the oboe interjection, it's all good. I really don't have too many negatives to say about this mix, outside the slightly off mastering.

Good job once again, Jeremy Robson!

[Abstractication]

Apologies for reviving an old thread if it's frowned upon but I'd like to throw my two cents in here. This is probably one of my more played remixes at the moment. I love the Forest theme. I'm a sucker for orchestral arrangements, well anything with a good flute part. My only iffy note is the volume is too soft and the strings are a tad muddy. But it's definitely more than I could do so I should shut up. Excellent job! I wish my highschool band would play something like this.

[Dr.d]

it was a well composed and a well-rounded song. this one deserves a thumbs up. :D I agree plus i'm a sucker for orchestral remixes. Awesome job.

[DragonFireKai]

Very impressive classical style piece. I love how he cut the mixes together.

[siven7]

Members on the first page stated that it could be played by "high school band," and that "should be telling of something." Ummmm... that shouldn't be telling of anything - there are masterpieces for a secondary school wind ensemble and one should not downplay the legitimacy of "high school band" :P

This isn't to say that I don't agree with the fact that the piece is very wind-heavy and could probably be played by a wind band, which I think is a strength. I hate when symphony composers just cake everything on for strings - if you have all of these colours for orchestral, you'd better use them!

I think that Jeremy's done exceptional work here, most particularly at the first transition (bassoon bass line; awesome writing for clarinet and oboe, I hear a little bit of Mahler in there...). I think that the strongest element of the piece is that it DOESN'T rely completely on the string section; in fact, it's mostly played by everyone else in the (synthesized) orchestra.

The ending is a little bit weak for such a boisterous arrangement - I think that the loudest part is the first/second repetition of the first theme. Still, brilliant remix, really enjoy.

[Lucentas]

This is probably my favorite Super Mario RPG ReMix, and the only symphonic piece of its kind on this site, and I love it. The forest theme is covered absolutely beautifully and how I always wanted to hear it, and everything else is a lush and vibrant palette of instrumentation.

[genius11433]

Nice arrangement! I am a sucker for classical music, and I downloaded it before the song was over—high praise from me.

One problem: the ending was not worthy of this piece. The first time I was listening, I had no idea that the song had ended until seconds later. A boisterous piece like that shouldn't end on a whimper. Other than that, a well-executed piece. Keep up the good work.

[OA]

The first 2 source themes I was unfamiliar with, but the third one was definitely recognizable. :-D

Everything was really well sequenced with the exception of the piccolo. I'm not sure why that one sounded so fake and mechanical by comparison to everything else.

Nice transitions and good ideas throughout, including some nice textures make this a solid mix. Very good stuff.

[dannyboi83]

oh my gosh...i love the feel of how composed and epic this piece sounds. can't say i've heard the original composition that koji did but man, jeremy, this is so cool....reminds me of final fantasy meets mario bros. love it!!!

[Crulex]

Ah, yes! I love the classical sound of this ReMix. It's really got a great sound and pulls together on all three mixes from SMRPG. Love the cresendo during Beware the forest Mushrooms. Forest Illusion had a nice a cameo. Well done.

[Nova713]

I cannot believe I somehow missed this one. I absolutely love this game and have been a fan of OC Remix for years. I don't know how this one slipped through the cracks. Anyways, I love this medley you composed here. I cannot stop listening to it. A+