OCR02071 - Final Fantasy IV 'Everclear Hangover IV'

[djpretzel]

What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix.

[Liontamer]

The hate. It's coming. :lol:

[halc]

this is the best remix i've ever heard

[Emunator]

what the fuck


YESS


This is so great

[Abadoss]

My only thoughts are... "Murder a steer"?

[Monobrow]

I really hope this turns into a "omg I hate rap" discussion, and then ends up all meta and maybe you guys should send this thread to PPR.

[Sir_Downunder]

...............Wow... Just


.... Wow...:nicework:

[diotrans]

Ahhh this is so cool. OCR + rap = win!

[zircon]

This is bad, like the Powerglove.

Also, don't think that Sagat cameo (2:02) went unnoticed, you punks.

[Kenogu Labz]

Rather disappointed a mix this vulgar made it onto OCR. Makes it pretty tough to show my friends this site when I have to show them 'the good ones', instead of having them find out the hard way that these songs are on here.

[Josh Whelchel]

Here it is.

Production wise, this is gold (bar minor picky things with some vocal mixing).
Source usage fine, of course.
And as for reaching out to new genres and not discriminating, that's also great.

Now, it's always been my belief that when we have mixes come in, we rate them as arrangements, their production values, but also as stand-alone works and how they'd sit alone in their own genre.

I gotta say that I don't think this stands as a work in its own genre, and to say that this is "good rap" is kind of degrading to the genre - there's nothing witty in the lyrics, there are no strong meaningful thematic material, and there's really no meaningful inspiration to this work; and yes this is coming from a guy who knows exactly what an everclear hangover feels like.

Unfortunately, this devalues what I considered the standards of this community to be - which may be a step in the right direction. I feel like an inside-joke between a few friends, regardless of their status in the community, is not really the kind of material you guys should be promoting.

Critically speaking, the lyrics do get a little lazy and at times seem to be aiming too hard for the jugular of those they are bound to offend, but the mix is catchy

This seems like a painful excuse to post this mix - lyrical content is equally important, if not MORE important than production values - arrangers and composers do not include anything in their music "lazily," and every piece of the puzzle should be quite important, so why in the world does a central element to this track get by as being lazy. Furthermore, djpretzel's writeup feels more like a list of reasons why this was let through, or an excuse, rather than a confident post, as it really should be.

Just my two cents, of course - I very much support this community and I stand by the decisions made with faith that you guys have been doing this for quite some time now and more a hell of a lot more than me, but I also have to say... Vinnie, bad call. This should have been paneled, at the very least. I'm not really out to start some great debate or anything, but I know that can't be avoided and I know it was coming anyway.

[Power Smoothie]

8O Glorious.

[Tables]

*chime* The Genere Ain't My Thing!
But come on. I didn't like the somewhat recently posted 'Link to the Mask' all that much either, but I'll admit it was clever and well made. Like someone said, this just feels like a lazy in-joke that only seeks to offend, somehow...

Every generation needs their 'The Music of My Groin', I suppose.

[elliotbay]

I'm with Josh on this one. The writeup read like an apology just about all the way through.

I don't tend to listen to a lot of rap, but it's the lyrics that make it or break it for me on that kind of a mix, and they definitely didn't shine here.

[GCMdawg]

I'd have to agree with Kenogu, though with more emphasis. Just wasted a minute and thirty seconds of my life, I might add (the song is 3:38, but I was honestly sick of it after the first 30 seconds.) Tell you what - strip out the lyrics. With the void of silence that would create throughout the song, fill it in with something. Then I might finish listening to it: you may even have people look past the lyrics tab, and actually click to the download section. :lol:

[mv]

Fun stuff, very nicely done/produced, and the appearance of all those themes was cleverly laid out.

KREDITZ!

[RDX]

I want to echo everything Josh Whelchel said. I agree entirely.

See as someone who's got like, 5 posts, I'm confused if this is supposed to be a inside joke or something. I read the lyrics before I listened, and they didn't seem so bad (I listen to a lot of rap so I'm not some super "pure" person) so I gave it a listen and the lyrics just didn't flow, and the song didn't catch my attention or anything. Basically, if you were to replace the sound and tone of the singers voices and replaced them with a synth or something, this song wouldn't have been any good, in my opinion.

I dunno. See I'm typing this in fear of looking like an idiot because I feel like I'm missing the point entirely or something.

Edit: I gave it a second listen, and arrangement wise it's not as bad as I thought it was the first time. I still think it's...not very good though, no offense.

[Emunator]

Basically, if you were to replace the sound and tone of the singers voices and replaced them with a synth or something, this song wouldn't have been any good, in my opinion.
That's because it's rap. It's not supposed to be ultra-melodic.

[RDX]

That's because it's rap. It's not supposed to be ultra-melodic.
Yeah but if it's not gonna be melodic then it should either:

A) Have a meaning
or
B) Be catchy

Read my edit. It's a matter of taste, really, I hate this kind of rap.

[DCT]

This is BRILLIANT.

The only issue I have with this mix is that I wasn't involved in the making of it.

[Brandon Strader]

Some people have preconceived notions of what rap is. It doesn't give you an excuse to make a song full of dry samples and sing-song talking. The vocals are also too dry and nerdy with practically no force behind them. This "choir" is more suited to singing showtunes. This isn't something I would have passed, but it gives hope to a lot of the people without fancy production knowledge. They can just say "Well look at this, you passed it very recently". As for how much more harsh this criticism is than usual... hey, they can deal with it. They're not babies. Just read the lyrics. :-P

This remix has taught me to appreciate Rhymes with Elixir.

Post your opinion

Also I agree 100% with Josh Whelchel :-P

[avaris]

This made me smile. :)

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster, Dave starts off the writeup saying "THIS IS VULGAR AND OFFENSIVE WE KNOW DON'T REVIEW IT JUST TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT" and the track STILL gets reviews calling the track vulgar and offensive?

Now I really can't wait to listen to it.

[The Radical Sifu]

I hate this, to be honest. It's lazy and I was bored of it after thirty seconds.

There are some of us who work our arses off to try to get stuff posted by the dragons on the Judges' panel, and then djp just direct-posts a pile of crap like this. The production isn't even nearly glossy enough, considering that that's just about all it has going for it. Sounds like someone threw it together in about two hours to be honest.

Sorry, if I'm offending the artists. :dstrbd: But this really shouldn't have been posted, it's not up to standard.

[Joshua Morse]

We need an 'explicit lyrics' logo for stuff like this:

http://jmill.homestead.com/explicit-lyrics.jpg

Also, the harp in the verse reminds me of Resident Evil: http://bit.ly/cDWdwY

Hot stuff, though!

[Radiowar]

it always bums me out to hear a rap remix on here where the whole thing is basically hey look we're rapping isn't that funny

hip hop is pretty good you guys it's okay to take it seriously

but w/e that was alright i guess, sounds like you guys had fun

[Palpable]

I stand by marking this as direct post. Technically djpretzel is the one that direct posts anything, it's always his call whether a mix goes up or not in the end. He's just calling me out because he wanted some comments to pull. :lol: I'm pretty confident that this would have passed the panel had it gone that route because of the strength of the production and arrangement. Performances are... loose, but it fits the vibe of the song.

[luhny]

Hm, to me it sounds like a joke. Or something silly you put together solely for fun.
People who like jokes of this kind will definately enjoy. And those who don't will not enjoy.

I am of the latter part.

Then again, music is a subjective medium - to each their own. And as long you enjoy what you do: keep doing it.

[djpretzel]

I stand by marking this as direct post. Technically djpretzel is the one that direct posts anything, it's always his call whether a mix goes up or not in the end. He's just calling me out because he wanted some comments to pull. :lol: I'm pretty confident that this would have passed the panel had it gone that route because of the strength of the production and arrangement. Performances are... loose, but it fits the vibe of the song.

I actually, legitimately think it would have been preferable for it to go through the panel, just so the haters had some additional perspectives on why it made it through when other more "serious" mixes are rejected, etc., and also because it sets a new precedent in terms of obscene material. By the same token, I didn't find direct-posting it hugely problematic, either, as it was bound to be polarizing regardless.

Also, http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01424/ - more by The Crakaz, with smarter lyrics.

[OA]

The Crackaz and the Scuba Divers should freestyle battle! :D

[Flik]

I completely forgot this even existed. And OA, you wanna battle? Next time I'm in town the Scuba Diver's are goin' DOWN!

[PurpleXVI]

I have to say... I've been listening to OCRemixes for years and this is just the worst one I have ever heard.

Technically I guess the music isn't so bad but... the lyrics just drown everything out. I like hip hop, I like rap... but it's like someone made a relatively okay piece of music and then copy-pasted bad gangsta rap lyrics on top, and no one remembered to remove them before they recorded it.

At least the other lyrical pieces on the site tend to try and make it somewhat related to the game.

It's not that it's "vulgar and offensive." It's just that it's bad by any measure.

[Rozovian]

Haven't listened yet, so this isn't a review of the music. That might come later. But I have enjoyed reading comments both here and on youtube, and got some idea of the track from that and from reading the lyrics. There's some clever wording but much of the song is pretty distasteful. Brings to mind a comment in the judges' panel that BGC once made (albeit not about lyrics), and makes me wonder if there should be a set standard for lyrics. I mean, these lyrics might be fun if you're into this kind of lyrical content, but maybe BGC's suggestion would be fun too.

In case you don't remember/read the Decisions:

If I write a really stellar track, but record a 19 second series of flatulence in the middle, is that passable?

So yeah, not much of a review here. Maybe later.

[Brandon Strader]

I think flatulence should fall under the same musical category as Vuvuzela, if done tastefully. Flatulence is an effective instrument of percussion.

[BlackPanther]

Uhm let me bring this out

"ocremix.org is dedicated to the appreciation and promotion of video game music as an art form"

This is exactly what this remix is, albeit bad art but it's art regardless. I'm listenin to the song as I type it. Love the production aspect, but these lyrics? Lol man sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. This might be some inside joke thing that you guys decided to do, but I don't really think inside jokes work in music especially if the rest of the world doesn't understand lol.

Anyways I respect djp postin this on ocr direct post or not, it shows he doesn't discriminate and the writeup doesn't seem forced at all like some people were saying, just him bein more open-minded unlike half of you guys. It's whatever, haters are gonna hate I suppose, sad world we live in.

Uhm good job guys, I didn't fully appreciate the song but there were some elements that I liked about it. It's a nice little fun track for like a house party or somethin lolz.

[The Xyco]

"OCR IS SERIOUS BUSINESS. HOW COULD THIS BE POSTED. MY EARS HAVE BEEN BRUTALIZED. CAPS LOCK. BLAHBLAHBLAH. WHAMBLEWHAMBLE, QQ, LYNCH DJP ET CETERA."

God, lighten up already. This mix isn't brilliance, and I'm certain no one would try to defend as such. But it is hella catchy and rather funny in its self-aware lameness. These are the types of mixes that keep me coming back to OCR.

Also, anyone actually offended by these lyrics hasn't been on the internet longer than a week.

[OC_Temp]

It would be tolerable if it were actual Hip-Hop, but the vocals in this track sound more like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf-fG150yM4
but without being funny to compensate.

[SoulinEther]

Omg, lol. Juvenile is right, so I guess that means I'm slightly juvenile.

It's not something I'll listen to regularly, but I didn't think it was as bad as people are making it out to be. I found the rapping style to be just fine.

[Palpable]

I actually, legitimately think it would have been preferable for it to go through the panel, just so the haters had some additional perspectives on why it made it through when other more "serious" mixes are rejected, etc., and also because it sets a new precedent in terms of obscene material.

That's fair, and I can try to lay out my thoughts for the haters. This part of your write-up pretty much sums it up for me: "I think it'd be perfectly fair to call this mix juvenile, but then again, that label isn't mutually exclusive with solid arrangement & production." In terms of meeting this site's criteria, the lyrics are only an issue if they don't serve the song. Laziness is the only criticism that to me makes sense to level at this song, but given some of the clever rhymes and vocal delivery of the verses, I didn't feel it was very lazy. Performance wasn't superb, but definitely fit the song, and it was above the bar. Production and source usage were on par with other posted tracks.

I can understand if people don't like the song because of the vulgarity, but that shouldn't be a criteria for us rejecting this, just as we shouldn't be rejecting a song because we don't like its genre. It's not like this is too out there, anyhow - you get the same lyrical content in every third Ludacris song.

Maybe the direct post aspect is throwing people off? Direct posts aren't necessarily reserved for the highest quality songs we have; rather, they are used when a song clearly meets all site criteria, like this song did.

[SiriusBeatz]

Wow.

So this was definitely not what I had expected to hit the front page in this day and age. And by direct post nonetheless. Yikes.

Not really bad, per se. I could see why a lot of people wouldn't like it. It's pretty crass - although intentionally so for the sake of humor. Not my specific brand of humor, but I'm not gonna knock it for that.

The actual rapping was pretty sub-par, but again, I feel like that added to the effect. I was more amused by that than by the actual content of the lyrics, frankly.

[CC Ricers]

It's not bad, but it's still not "Rhymes With Elixir" in my opinion.

[Josh Whelchel]

I can understand if people don't like the song because of the vulgarity, but that shouldn't be a criteria for us rejecting this, just as we shouldn't be rejecting a song because we don't like its genre. It's not like this is too out there, anyhow - you get the same lyrical content in every third Ludacris song.

It isn't the vulgarity, it's the laziness - and I agree about everything else you've said - except this is the equivalent of having someone with a really great sounding track but an AWFULLY recorded lead guitar or keyboard. 99% of the time I'm pretty sure that's grounds for at, the very least, a resub - but here we're looking at poor execution. As vulgar as Ludacris is, he's got execution.

Part of me is simply arguing for the sake of voicing a strong opinion, this doesn't detract from my respect for the artists involved or anything quite like that - it really just is a matter of standards that are clearly not in place for this genre, and this is an awful place to set the bar. Life goes on (:

[zircon]

I don't think the vocal execution is "poor." It's not the greatest, but it fits the spirit of the song. We've let live orchestral/band mixes pass that also don't have the greatest execution. Nor are the lyrics all that lazy... just profane, and worth a chuckle.

[Abadoss]

I actually, legitimately think it would have been preferable for it to go through the panel, just so the haters had some additional perspectives on why it made it through when other more "serious" mixes are rejected, etc., and also because it sets a new precedent in terms of obscene material. By the same token, I didn't find direct-posting it hugely problematic, either, as it was bound to be polarizing regardless.

Also, http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01424/ - more by The Crakaz, with smarter lyrics.

Maybe this isn't the best place to suggest this, but, djp, this is your site after all. Perhaps you should work in the ability to bounce a direct post nominee back to the judges panel if need be. This would be for the rare cases, like this, when a controversal song that may meet the standards needs the extra perspectives you were talking about in order to seem legitimate. Or if someone dropped the ball somewhere, by some aweful fluke.

[Theophany]

I feel like weighing in here because I'm interested in the debate. i hope the day never comes when this community becomes so official that inside jokes and completely vulgar video game remixes can't be posted to the front page. i think people should never forget we're remixing video game music, for fun, for ourselves and for fans who enjoy hearing said tunes remixed. in my opinion, it's important to keep this community free and open when it comes to style and taste. sometimes you get emotive, dark remixes, sometimes you get amazing trance mixes, sometimes you get jazz, sometimes you get happy uplifting remixes, and sometimes you get joke mixes. that's the nature of ocr, and i was glad to see something like this get posted. it's a joke, and jokes are always a matter of taste. people in this community who are trying to make the standards more rigorous and move the site towards being more official than it already is are really, to some extent, ruining what draws people to this community: the fact that there is something here for everyone, and that anyone can make a remix. and if it's creative enough and has decent production values, they can get it passed by the panel or direct posted. my personal view is that since joke mixes are jokes, i don't mind them being held to a lower production standard. the same courtesy is extended to people who submit truly creative arrangements but lack production value. that seems fair to me.

tldr; i am absolutely against implementing any standards limiting what kind of content lyrics can have, be it vulgarity or "only game-related lyrics" or anything else of the kind. creative freedom and style are what make this community great. the same production leniency that is extended to ambitious or truly creative arrangements should also be extended to joke remixes, because they are by very nature a joke... and at times lower production values are desirable for the cheesy factor or as a signature style.

[RDX]

So uhh, to the people who are acting like the folks who dislike this song are flipping out about it, do you wanna quote some posts of people getting totally offended by the lyrical content?

Because most of the "This sucks" posts so far have been pretty polite and mostly objective (My post excluded but I'm not much of a musician anyway so I have no idea what a 'production' is).
It's all about taste, really. That being said, don't mock those of us who don't like this when none of us have said anything totally wild and crazy. Not that it's hurtin mah feelings or anything, but we need some mutual respect goin on up in this joint.

[Josh Whelchel]

I feel like weighing in here because I'm interested in the debate. i hope the day never comes when this community becomes so official that inside jokes and completely vulgar video game remixes can't be posted to the front page. i think people should never forget we're remixing video game music, for fun, for ourselves and for fans who enjoy hearing said tunes remixed. in my opinion, it's important to keep this community free and open when it comes to style and taste.

This is an incredible point that I entirely agree with - at the same time, with such high standards across the board I most definitely believe it should be held to lyrical content. If you let that slide then why shouldn't joke remixes also be allowed, and this immediately comes to mind (http://onewingedhut.ytmnd.com/) (granted, I get the production, arrangement, etc and stuff is way subpar, I'm just making a point).

I'm not trying to make too serious an ordeal and detract from what you've suggested - that we do this for fun, ourselves, and for people who appreciate the music. That's a pretty strong point, but I still have to sit on my side of the grumpy fence on this one, as it more subtracts from the genre in the way its presented, saying: "hey we can do this too," and then doing it poorly, or as a joke (as you've suggested), is an awful way to start.

I think my argument is more that Lyrics -are- a part of arrangement, and should be a serious factor in the evaluation of any piece of music.

^_^

[joe_cam]

This thread is gold!
I know not everybody would like this, and I honestly submitted it knowing the profane lyrics could be an issue, but thankfully the people in charge see this mix for what it is: fun.
This isn't an inside joke and it's not a dig (sarcastic or not) at anyone or anything. We were at the BBQ, were talking about the FFIV remix project with varying opinions and decided to do our own remix. Think of it as our submission if we were ever asked. Then we picked a subject. Since it's the BBQ and people drink a lot, we wrote about alcohol and getting REALLY fucked up. Think of it as a MAGFest song as well, you know, unless you're one of those people who goes to MAGFest just to play video games and not to hang out with friends and party for 4 days.
Are we the best rappers on the planet? No way. Never claimed to be. I figured that is kind of forcefully made apparent with how over the top I was in the first verse. Second guy, Pappy, isn't a rapper at all. He even sings like a girl. It took him like 10 takes to even sound that decent. If you don't like Flik in the third verse, I think you're just a terrible person. My opinion, but how can you NOT like Flik asking you to sit on his dick?

To the people who get it, enjoy it or just accept it whether they liked it or not: Thanks. Thanks for "getting" that we're just a bunch of people hanging out at a BBQ having some fun and making some damn fine music with some over the top lyrics.

To everybody else, and I've read all the comments so far: Either don't download a song listed as profane and then act shocked at the profanity, or don't download rap. If you hated it for the lyrics in general, that's cool. No harm done. Everybody has their opinions. Thanks for at least checking it out.


And DJP, come on. We were PLENTY profane in Da Black Market. I mean, sure it wasn't this bad, but Black Market is the song that got me hate mail saying I ruined the entire Bound Together project by having "Ness" say fuck in that song. You can't ignore the profaneness of that song and jump right back to Niggaz 4 Life! :D

[Brandon Strader]

The short and skinny of it is that the production is incredibly weak, especially for rap, which shifts the focus to the vocals which, as people have mentioned, are subpar and lazy. As a result, this mix should not have been DPed. It probably shouldn't have even passed the panel. Listen to any rap song on the radio today, then listen to this one. Ok, you got drunk at a bbq, we get it, that doesn't excuse such incomplete production on arguably the easiest genre that people do around here.

[Flik]

I think it's cute when Brandon tries to sound all serious and producer like :D

[joe_cam]

I HIGHLY disagree that the production is bad, but that's not my point to argue. Production was done by Mustin and the song was mastered by Dale North, so if they wish to speak for themselves, they may do so.
Needless to say, we'll agree to disagree on that point.

[Theophany]

This is an incredible point that I entirely agree with - at the same time, with such high standards across the board I most definitely believe it should be held to lyrical content. If you let that slide then why shouldn't joke remixes also be allowed, and this immediately comes to mind (http://onewingedhut.ytmnd.com/) (granted, I get the production, arrangement, etc and stuff is way subpar, I'm just making a point).

I'm not trying to make too serious an ordeal and detract from what you've suggested - that we do this for fun, ourselves, and for people who appreciate the music. That's a pretty strong point, but I still have to sit on my side of the grumpy fence on this one, as it more subtracts from the genre in the way its presented, saying: "hey we can do this too," and then doing it poorly, or as a joke (as you've suggested), is an awful way to start.

I think my argument is more that Lyrics -are- a part of arrangement, and should be a serious factor in the evaluation of any piece of music.

^_^

I didn't miss your point about lyrics being a part of an arrangement. I was making the same point; it falls under the ceative/arrangement category which is subject to the judges or djp at the time it is considered as a submission. You also seem to be assuming that djp didn't consider the lyrics as part of the arrangement when he decided to post this, which isn't the case. If you don't like these lyrics and think it detracts from what ocr is, fine; you didn't like the arrangement. It's no different than disliking metal mixes or trance for whatever reason. I don't support trying to get site-wide regulations, restrictions or new standards made to specifically address dirty or poorly written lyrics. There's already enough regulations when it comes to what can be put up on the front page when it comes to arrangements. The rest is up to the judges or djp to decide on a case-by-case basis. I agree with that MO, especially when a bold warning is put at the beginning of the writeup about the lyrics.

As for concerns about representing the genre, I don't think ocr is obligated to "represent" genres in any kind of special way. We've already proved we can make awesome shit. And more awesome shit is bound to come along, in this genre and others. Genres are not made in a day, or defined by a single mix. The point is, we can do anything, and it's partly because there are relatively few limitations. The other parts of it is that there is a huge pool of talented and generous individuals who take the time to make the music that gets posted here; singling out people who choose to use lyrics in their arrangements and forcing them to comply with standards specific to them can't really be done in the spirit of openness.

[Josh Whelchel]

I HIGHLY disagree that the production is bad, but that's not my point to argue. Production was done by Mustin and the song was mastered by Dale North, so if they wish to speak for themselves, they may do so.
Needless to say, we'll agree to disagree on that point.

I'm entirely in agreement here, production is gold.

Anywho, I've stated my opinion and that's all I really care to do - as I said, life goes on, no big deal. And I'll be honest, I do enjoy this kind of thing generally, and I'm not saying that I don't enjoy this mix for what it is - and since that's what it's really all about, I do support this post, I just wanted to make the point. At the end of the day all that's really left for me to say is keep it up guys, and I'd like to see something in this direction again, and I know there's potential for more "potent" lyrics in mixes like these, or that is to say, this genre also has potential for arrangements that talk about some deeper things and I'd love to see them.

Maybe that was obvious, though. (:

EDIT: I'd also like to go on record as saying that this is one of my favorite remixes ever (http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2953), and I would have made the same point had it gotten posted.

[Brandon Strader]

I may have been harsh with what I said and for that, I'm sorry to all of those involved in the making of this track. Having said that, I think putting more emphasis on the percussion and backing music, and lowering the vocals just a tad and maybe adding some very light reverb, could have done wonders for this track. :-o

[joe_cam]

I think everybody posting here needs to be a little less critical of the language and pay more attention to the meaning behind the lyrics.
Flik is asking for people to "please sit on [his] dick" and not enough people are doing so. That should be addressed.

<3 U all.
Seriously, love it or hate it, I'm glad you guys are at least talking about it.

[Monobrow]

EDIT: I'd also like to go on record as saying that this is one of my favorite remixes ever (http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2953), and I would have made the same point had it gotten posted.

I would have liked that one to be posted, in comparison to this being posted now anyway, but is this technically a precedent?

[ZealPath]

My favorite part of any hiphop/rap mix being posted is the inevitable shitstorm it will cause in the review thread. This particular mix has definitely not disappointed in that regard :lol: . I can see how people might have at least wanted to see judge feedback, though in my opinion I'm pretty sure this mix would have hit the front page either way.

Much like how I knew I was going to love "Rhymes with Elixir" after reading an advance review before Echoes was released, I knew I would love this mix, just based on the backlash in the comments that I read before I actually listened. So like other predecessor hiphop mixes such as "Keep Out the Veldt", I enjoyed this mix, particularly the reference to shots of Jager. Had it only referred to Jagerbombs as well, I might have enjoyed it even more :lol: . It also reminds me a lot of the FFVI "OUS BBQ" track, which is basically the exact same idea but using "The Magic House" as the source.

In a lot of cases, I just don't think rap/hiphop mixes are for everyone, and that's fine. The harshness of the criticism for the most part is something I find unnecessary though, does this really need to happen every time a rap mix goes up? The only "inside joke" here is the fact that the whole mix is essentially a joke lyrically. Sure, it is probably a reference to a party they had, but I highly doubt the things described in the lyrics actually took place at said party, I'm just surprised a lot of people seem to be taking it dead seriously.

As for the production, I don't think it was anyone involved's crown jewel, a little minimalist (something that often happens in hiphop) but it certainly wasn't "poor". I actually really liked the way one source drove the intro and chorus, while the others were used for verses, very catchy.

[PurpleXVI]

I feel like weighing in here because I'm interested in the debate. i hope the day never comes when this community becomes so official that inside jokes and completely vulgar video game remixes can't be posted to the front page. i think people should never forget we're remixing video game music, for fun, for ourselves and for fans who enjoy hearing said tunes remixed. in my opinion, it's important to keep this community free and open when it comes to style and taste.

Well, there are plenty of remixes with lyrics that aren't all SUPER SERIOUS, or otherwise humorous.

But "inside jokes" and "funny" remixes should still have to pass the normal vetting process, rather than getting fast-tracked through for being someone's friends. Because hey, if I wanted to upload some "inside joke," I suspect it'd still have to get through the panel.

[PurpleXVI]

My favorite part of any hiphop/rap mix being posted is the inevitable shitstorm it will cause in the review thread. This particular mix has definitely not disappointed in that regard :lol: . I can see how people might have at least wanted to see judge feedback, though in my opinion I'm pretty sure this mix would have hit the front page either way.

No one's hammering it for being rap, people are hammering it for being bad/lazy/generic rap. Accusing the critics of just being harsh on rap is wriggling around the arguments made.

[joe_cam]

But "inside jokes" and "funny" remixes should still have to pass the normal vetting process, rather than getting fast-tracked through for being someone's friends.

I totally agree with this and I never expected a direct post or a fast track. I submitted it back in January and kept an eye on the Judges thread to see if it was in the queue or would show up soon.
I was INCREDIBLY surprised when I got the email that it was getting a direct post. I definitely appreciate that it got it, but in no way did I expect it or ask for it.
Plus I know how bad BGC hates me and wants to stab me.

[Brandon Strader]

Joe, This would have been really rockin' with some auto tune....... also some Kanye west AM I RITE

I smell Everclear Hangover V: Radio Edit?

[A-RoN]

Not my thing. I'm not sure why I'm still listening to Joe Cam after all these years.

[Brandon Strader]

I think the main problem is that we all took it really seriously.

[joe_cam]

God... How did I know A-Ron would show up here? And the last name is Cammisa, not Camissa. It's in the profile, read it and educate yourself. You've been shitting on my music for years now. At least learn my goddamn name already.

Also, why must the lyrics be about the game? Why can't we just write our own lyrics about what we want while using music from the game as our instrumentation? A lot of people are complaining that the lyrics had nothing to do with Final Fantasy. SO WHAT? Then again, if we did that we'd get called out for just trying to write shitty lyrics about a game and they sound uninspired or I'd get called out for the same thing that happened with Da Black Market in that we used filthy language in a song from a family friendly game.

At least Brandon is at least realizing that a whole bunch of you guys took shit waaaaay too seriously. Lighten up and have fun, that's what we did and that's why I am very proud of this song. Because we had FUN with it. We didn't aim to please anybody, we did this to have fun and enjoy ourselves. The fact that OCR can accept it and post it makes me feel good that what we did as a good time among friends is "good enough" to be showcased among some of the best game remixes in the world (and Da Black Market). If you're getting so uptight about this song to the point that some people want us shot or think we're destroying the legacy of this site, chill out and ask yourself why you're getting so pissy about one single song. Relax and enjoy life for a little bit. It's more FUN that way.

[Brandon Strader]

Getting shot might not be a bad idea. It worked for 50 Cent.

On a serious note, I can't pretend to know how you feel about this because I haven't had a mixpost. But I figure if I did and people had such a negative reaction to it, like even I did to this, I would probably be pretty sad. So I'm sorry for the way I responded here and I now understand where you are coming from with this mix and the general vibe behind it.

[A-RoN]

God... How did I know A-Ron would show up here? And the last name is Cammisa, not Camissa. It's in the profile, read it and educate yourself. You've been shitting on my music for years now. At least learn my goddamn name already.

If you're getting so uptight about this song to the point that some people want us shot or think we're destroying the legacy of this site, chill out and ask yourself why you're getting so pissy about one single song. Relax and enjoy life for a little bit. It's more FUN that way.

I'll make you a deal, Cammisa. I learn your name properly and leave your stuff alone, and you release a song or even send me a link personally of a song that you poured your heart into that has tangible meaning behind it with a good sense of inspiration. I'll bet if it got exposure, you'd have more hits on your hands then this song. Seriously, I'd like to help you out here. And the reason I am "pissy" is because I've actually heard with my own two physical ears how poor and not so FUN music generically has gotten for all those years I've been only occasionally so-called "shitting" on yours (it's called comparing U2 to Nickleback/Matchbox20 to Carrie Underwood/Screwball to Justin Timberlake yeah bad examples but don't blame me). Seriously, we're all on the same level, so quit complaining, drop the grudge, build a bridge, and get over yourself as I was defending REAL hip-hop itself most of the review. Great musicians will always get critisism. It's part of success, so suck it up.

[joe_cam]

Brandon, you have no need to apologize. I don't expect everybody to like this. I don't expect even a large minority to like this song. I'm glad some people do, but that's not my goal.

As for you, Parsons, you always seem to pop up when hip hop is concerned. And what the hell is up with calling me by my full last name, Parsons? Is there a reason for that, Parsons? I don't have any grudge with you, but you always seem to pop up and make an ass out of yourself and claim that nobody does rap and hip hop right except for yourself. Hell, look at your sig! You aren't shitting on me yet you're dedicating your sig to my 1/10 song.
As for a song that I've poured my heart into and has tangible meaning? That would be nearly EVERY song I've done that isn't "Crakaz" related.
Come Back, Ode to a Lost Love, Can't Let Go, Feeling Lost, Just a Friend, Still Smiling, etc etc etc.
But I'll do you one better, Parsons. Betrayal, a rap song that I poured my heart into and has tangible meaning. But gasp and eegads! There is profanity in it!

LINK REMOVED BECAUSE SOMEBODY BACKED OUT OF A CHALLENGE THEY INITIATED

[A-RoN]

Brandon, you have no need to apologize. I don't expect everybody to like this. I don't expect even a large minority to like this song. I'm glad some people do, but that's not my goal.

As for you, Parsons, you always seem to pop up when hip hop is concerned. And what the hell is up with calling me by my full last name, Parsons? Is there a reason for that, Parsons? I don't have any grudge with you, but you always seem to pop up and make an ass out of yourself and claim that nobody does rap and hip hop right except for yourself. Hell, look at your sig! You aren't shitting on me yet you're dedicating your sig to my 1/10 song.
As for a song that I've poured my heart into and has tangible meaning? That would be nearly EVERY song I've done that isn't "Crakaz" related.
Come Back, Ode to a Lost Love, Can't Let Go, Feeling Lost, Just a Friend, Still Smiling, etc etc etc.
But I'll do you one better, Parsons. Betrayal, a rap song that I poured my heart into and has tangible meaning. But gasp and eegads! There is profanity in it!
https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/The%20Crakaz-Betrayal.mp3?w=170a835e

I hope that link works. I haven't had my own webspace for a while so that's my best way to get the song to you. Challenge met with a 3 year old song, Parsons.

You never cease to offend me when I only want to help lead emerging and potentially good artists in the right direction with my reviews. That seperates the Padawan from the Jedi:

1. I linked sources (some removed) of other great rap songs that are way better than mine. You obviously never read the full review.

2. If you didn't have a grudge with me and you can actually handle critisism, you wouldn't blow up like this.

3. It really would have been better to PM me next time. The above post is reported.

Deal's off. If you reply or even quote any of our discussion since my review, I will report those posts too. Like I said, I tried to be tolerant, and I did follow djpretzel's instructions as to expressing my opinions freely thinking you'd be better at your game. If I did not do so, he will deal with me personally and appropriately unlike you, and you wonder why I'm made an ass of whenever we chat.

EDIT: I also edited my review so that we won't have to continue this conversation any further than here.

[Josh Whelchel]

Also, why must the lyrics be about the game?

I for one don't think they need to be about the game at all, mine weren't (http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02023/). I've slept on this whole thing and everyone's made some pretty important points - we do this for fun, you don't have to love it, but here instead is OCR supporting us artists in what we do well - super serious or not, about the game or not, explicit or needlessly vulgar, call it what you will - but it's here. Time to embrace it.

[Flik]

Holy LOL I think SOMEBODY needs to drink a little Everclear and chill out :D

[A-RoN]

here instead is OCR supporting us artists in what we do well - super serious or not.

Which is why we need to take creativity and novelty in music seriously, guys. Giving feedback is all about helping an artist grow, even if the feedback is negative. I can sadly say though, I've only grown from hateful critique. Enough said.

Holy LOL I think SOMEBODY needs to drink a little Everclear and chill out :D

Believe me, dude, I tried before 2004, but the attempt to chill out left me with a whole high school who hates me and a restraining order. Essentially why I turn to so-called religion.

[Sixto]

I hate rap. HATE IT. But I like this remix. It's fun and it makes me want to party all night with some...bitches? Nice work, JOECAMNET. (BTW I don't hate rap, but I DO like Nickelback. :< )

[Kenogu Labz]

Something I just realized; aren't mixes like this usually relegated to OLRemix? They have been in the past, as far as I can tell. Why the exception here?

[A-RoN]

Something I just realized; aren't mixes like this usually relegated to OLRemix? They have been in the past, as far as I can tell. Why the exception here?

It's all connections and track record, believe me.

[RDX]

I think the main problem is that we all took it really seriously.
Yeah. I was stupid and came into this half-expecting Tupac, and found it being worse than Lil Wayne. You can't really blame me, when you've got guys like PrototypeRaptor and WillRock making remixes in genres that rival their commercial counterparts, but the bottomline is that every so often the music of someone's groin gets posted for the lolz and there's always bound to be some people who don't get it.

that being said the oneups are awesome and if for some odd reason you haven't listened to their other stuff, go do it now

/thread

[Liontamer]

It's all connections and track record, believe me.

Nah, no it's not.

[A-RoN]

Yeah. I was stupid and came into this half-expecting Tupac, and found it being worse than Lil Wayne. You can't really blame me,

/thread

Well at least your expectations were a quest for pure hip-hop. :)

[Bahamut]

Can't say I'm a fan of the song, primarily due to the, quite frankly, terrible lyrics.

That said, I view this song akin to Lover Reef & Rhymes of Elixir - it's not meant to take itself seriously, and considering this was made during the OUS BBQ, I rest my case on the nature of the song.

Not all songs OCR posts will necessarily be everyone's cup of tea. OCR isn't about passing judgment on songs in that manner. Vinnie believed the song met the criteria the site uses for posting songs, and as he said, he stands by his decision. If the song isn't your type, there was another song posted today as well to add to your collection.

[GeneralJehy]

Well.
Really? That was "vulgar"? It sounded like bad white rap to me (and believe me, I have a twenty year old brother who thinks he's going to be the next Eminem...I know bad white rap).
It's one thing if you're doing it as a joke; another if you want it to be taken seriously. I don't get the feeling that this particular piece was worked on very long. At least not lyrics-wise. The music itself was good, I'll give you that, but otherwise...

I agree with what someone said earlier that the lyrics were just plain lazy.



And there's a shocking lack of motherf*cker in this. I mean, come on. it's rap for god's sake.

[zircon]

It's all connections and track record, believe me.

Haha, yeah, no. If anything at all, OUS and OCR staff used to be on kinda rocky terms, though there's absolutely no hate either way now. OLR does post joke remixes, but that doesn't translate to "all joke mixes are bad." You can have a funny remix that also has great production and arrangement.

[Scrobble]

eh, all the drama is kind of silly. it's a goofy song about booze and flik's crotch. not exactly my style, but certainly not as bad as all the commotion about it


also lover reef is awesome

[joe_cam]

Well.
Really? That was "vulgar"? It sounded like bad white rap to me (and believe me, I have a twenty year old brother who thinks he's going to be the next Eminem...I know bad white rap).
It's one thing if you're doing it as a joke; another if you want it to be taken seriously. I don't get the feeling that this particular piece was worked on very long. At least not lyrics-wise. The music itself was good, I'll give you that, but otherwise...

I agree with what someone said earlier that the lyrics were just plain lazy.



And there's a shocking lack of motherf*cker in this. I mean, come on. it's rap for god's sake.

Hahaha. I love this reply so much.
Keep in mind, the name of this group is "The Crakaz" so that should answer your first query right off the bat. We've always been bad white rap and we've never tried to claim otherwise. We're better than we used to be, but that doesn't make us great in any sense.
Yeah, I can see the complaints where the lyrics seem lazy (though I'm really happy with most of mine. I'm sure I can touch them up now, but the song's a year old now...) This was all written within the span of a few hours (lyrics probably under an hour) during the 7th Annual OUS BBQ. It was never meant to be an award winning piece of music or a serious act at being a legitimate rap group. It's a fun song made during a BBQ. I'm really quite honored that it's here on OCR. It means a lot that our dicking around songs are getting to be "good" enough to be accepted here.
Lastly, I am very sorry for not having "motherfucker" in there. I will keep this advice in mind for future reference. If we had an extra hour or so to do some adlibs and what not, I'm sure I'd have thrown one in there somewhere. DCT can back me up that I support the use of "motherfucker", but I guess we were still a bit hungover and it slipped my mind.

Many thanks for the reply Jehy. I genuinely enjoyed your feedback.


And goddammit Scrobble, why the hell didn't you get to the BBQ this year?? I missed you.

[Scrobble]

slaving away in the chocolate mines, joe. gotta make that money.

[joe_cam]

slaving away in the chocolate mines, joe. gotta make that money.
Make it rain, Rob. Make it rain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA

[Fishy]

Joe, seriously.

Best Tupac impression EVAR.

[docnano]

WTF!?!? I don't like rap much and these lyrics are particularly immature, but hell, it's HILARIOUS. The themes are woven subtly but to good effect throughout. Against my better judgment, I think I'll add this to my library! :-)

[b0nez]

Played once. Permanently filed in the circular bin.

After listening to over 2000 OC remixes, only two or three others have received such a response from me. Not that Mustin doesn't make some killer mixes, but this certainly ain't one of 'em...

[Melbu Frahma]

I think my argument is more that Lyrics -are- a part of arrangement, and should be a serious factor in the evaluation of any piece of music.

This.

As to the mix itself: The instrumentation was pretty well done, overall, I thought, but the laziness of the lyrics kept me from enjoying it. Still, as Theophany said... five?... pages back, it's an inside joke and there's nothing wrong with that. I just can't see the average guest wandering onto the front page, listening to this, and enjoying it.

[WillRock]

You guys suck, your remix sucks, why has ocr posted this shit, ZOMG.

jk :P

Ok so its quite obvious that this isn't a mix that should be taken seriously.

Its not really what I would call a great remix, but then again, I wouldn't call Rabbit Joint Cover or music of my groin great remixes per say. But they are damn good fun, and pretty funny, and i'd say this is something more along those lines than what you'd usually see here on ocr.

I'm not sure if this is my style of humor like those two, but i'm not going to say its bad for it. Its not for everyone sure, but its a good laugh for those that enjoy it, which is all that you need imo :P

[Josh Whelchel]

Okay, so I looked back at "Rhymes with Elixir," the precedent in this situation. djpretzel said it all:

... the overall tone is certainly goofy, but we don't post "joke mixes" that don't at least sound good & have some merit to both arrangement and production. ...

This mix is actually ahead of RWE in terms of those things in my opinion. That's why this is a few (by few I mean many many) levels above OLRemix.

[fester]

I've been visiting OCR for nearly a decade and never felt the need to register and post until now. I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to musical styles, and I like quite a bit of rap, but this mix was simply terrible. I was cringing the entire time while listening to the lyrics, not because I'm offended by some "fucks" and a "dick", but because the lyrics were delivered in such a pedestrian manner. The "embarrassed for the other person" feeling I was left with was reminiscent of the feeling I got when "rapping" commercials were popular in the 80s and 90s. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vumQ-D06ppg

[Master_Yoshi]

Holy hell, 10 pages already? And I haven't chimed in to hate yet? D'awwwwwwwwww...

*listening* Hey, this sounds like da black market, and I liked that. Oh hey, it's by those dudes! No pixie to chime in with a 2 second clip to break up the sausage fest.

Umm..... So yeah. Why was this so hated? Rhymes with Elixir was terrible, this is actually good though. And the lyrics in this are A) Pants on head retarded, and B) Not at all game related.

Oh right. Production... that's important, eh?

This right here is the difference good production can make for a song. Turning a joke remix into something enjoyable to listen to, something that you can actually appreciate the music behind because everything is mixed well. The lyrics are awful, but the delivery is fantastic. I kinda wish Flik was more identifiable as Flik though. I miss that guy.... And even though it's a bunch of white guys rapping in a white manner (aka without soul) It's all mixed properly, sounds good, and is enjoyable. Did I mention this is enjoyable?

Oh, and really? This is profane? Like.... really? People don't understand profane I think. Profane is what is not the widely accepted. And everyone I talk to, talks like this when they aren't in a job interview or talking to their boss.

So yeah. Good stuff guys :D Would have preferred to hear something more game related a la black market, but this will do.

[Barnsalot]

This belongs on OLRemix, not on OCR. The lyrics and the way they're sung both have the vibe of "we did this for the lulz".

[MessagesFromEarth]

I was discouraged by the comments and I guess it's my own fault for reading some of them before listening to the song, but....
Guys, this is fucking hilarious! I laughed the whole time. I'm not sure I'd like to hear more remixes like this, but goddamn, you all had me rolling.
Also, was that Flik at the end? The voice sounds like the one from the Link plays guitar at Hyrule High School. Bad ass.

EDIT: Apparently Flik was the one needing people to sit on his crotch or something. Oh boy. Guys, let me just say one more time that this is fantastic, deserves to be on OCRemix in every way, and that if more people had a sense of humor the world would be a better place

[djpretzel]

I've been visiting OCR for nearly a decade and never felt the need to register and post until now. I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to musical styles, and I like quite a bit of rap, but this mix was simply terrible...You do realize that this is actually a form of incentive for us to post mixes like this? If it gets long-time lurkers to finally participate and say something, that's kind of a plus :nicework:

At any rate, I figured I would chime in again since we did in fact receive the hailstorm reaction we expected; I agree with a LOT of the criticisms, and everyone involved in this mix can - and has - done better, that almost goes without saying. But so many comments focus on the lyrics and the production, which deserve the flack, but ignore the actual arrangement. Pretend they were singing something else, and pretend the production was a LITTLE better (I don't think it's awful by a stretch) - the actual incorporation of the themes is, to me, pretty cool. Of course, to enjoy music, you shouldn't HAVE to pretend, but that just speaks to where our respective tastes & preferences lie; I can listen over some silliness and forgive some laziness if I feel like there are some well-executed arrangement ideas going on.

Now, for all you folks who chimed in and haven't posted in a blue moon - or ever - before this mix, how about throwing some positive comments to a few of the other 1,800+ mixes maybe you DID enjoy, past & present?

[Karrde]

Heh, anybody who can't enjoy this is either some kind of purist or a prude who can't stand juvenile humor. Oddly enough, a friend of mine and I were discussing last night an article written by a thirty something mother who didn't get why her 13 year old found juvenile humor so funnny. We're both almost 30 and we still find it funny, so call us juvenile if you will :P Definitely up there with the aforementioned mixes as well as Team Gato's tongue in cheek stuff. Musically, meh, but that's not the point is it? I laughed my ass off though.

[last light]

This song failed to impress me, but I liked Rhymes with Elixir. Neither song made much progress in buildup of the music itself (not counting lyrics) in my book, they just stagnated through the mix. I suppose that's part of the reason I don't like rap in general; It just doesn't seem to ever reach of a crescendo.
However, at least Rhymes with Elixir had a lot of effort put into the lyrics. They were clever and original, and stood out from any other rap in history (probably because they were based on Final Fantasy 4. I don't think anyone else had ever tried that before then). These lyrics were just uninspired and unoriginal. What did they add to rap that had not been seen before? Lyrics about partying and getting smashed? Been done a thousand times.
It's just disappointing to me that for a website that has had such high standards in creativity, something like this was passed.

[DiggiDis]

Are you serious ??

..... arguably the easiest genre that people do around here.

[zyko]

this again?
pathetic.

[Brandon Strader]

Are you serious ??
Yes. :-o10char

[DeltaKnightStryke]

Although I am in little position to judge, nor have I the particular talent necessary to orchestrate pieces of music that have graced this website throughout it's existence, this particular piece leaves much to be desired. It's very being wrought pain and suffering amongst my family whom, upon twenty seconds of the song, demanded that it dwell forever more within the recycle bin. Ever a glutton-for-punishment, I finished the song. Much akin to "The Rite of Spring", my listening experience ensued parallel to it's first showing. Within seconds, I booed and hissed and eventually grew violent wailing my arms erratically, screaming and frothing--at the lackluster lyrics in particular. The profanity seemed to detract from the piece as a whole, as if compromising the humor and cleverness of the piece. Perhaps, my judgement is far too rash on such a piece. After all, "The Rite of Spring" was mocked and jeered at its initial debut, but the world eventually grew to cherish it in the future. So, perhaps in fifty years or so, assuming this song survives the horrific onslaught when mankind is finally conquered by the evil super-race of Aryan Eye-Ball People (Think Giant eyeball with Blonde Lashes)--where the only form of entertainment for the enslaved throngs of human beings is either fornicating with a cheese grater or listening to this song for hours on end, perhaps--just perhaps this song will finally reach the ears of those who appreciate it.

[joe_cam]

(probably because they were based on Final Fantasy 4. I don't think anyone else had ever tried that before then)

Tried what? Doing a rap remix where the lyrics were about the game?
Sorry man, but Da Black Market (also by us, by the way) beat Rhymes with Elixer to the punch by a few years...

I still like how people are expecting that every song released on this site has to drastically change the musical landscape with each coming day. Yes, we wrote a song about partying and getting drunk during an event in which we were partying and getting drunk. Shock and awe.

[DiggiDis]

Yes. :-o10char

I need to hear you doing good beats.
Please send me a few, maybe you can teach me a thing or two.

[pappy]

everyone involved in this mix can - and has - done better, that almost goes without saying.

No, no not all of us have, or probably ever will.
I was at a BBQ when I was asked to help throw together some lyrics for a fun song. Something that has been done on several other occasions, but for once I was in the right place at the right time.
However, I'm white. I am INCREDIBLY white. I was mockingly called the 'sixth Backstreet Boy' years ago. I can't sing along to hard rock or heavy metal. As Joe Cam said, I kinda sing like a girl. Tenor 2.
I was locked in the recording room and forced to sing my verse over and over and over again before I was basically given a 'damnit, good enough. Get the hell out of there.'

It was the most fun I have ever had with a raging, 14-hour-straight headache.
Then two days ago I get a congrats on this song being posted to OCR. "Really? Cool." I shrug and wander off.

Then yesterday I sat down and started to read the comments. I read all of them, here and on YouTube. Yesterday was the greatest day of my life.
To say that I lucked out is an understatement. I spent hours surrounded by talented people who knew they were joking around and having fun, and I got to make something...different. Something different that actually went public.
Most of you guys have reacted the way I figured a normal, well-adjusted adult would respond. Either you liked it or you didn't because it wasn't your bag.
It's not really my bag either. I find too much popularized rap to be about either partying, doing drugs, dealing drugs, misogyny or empty threats. Plus, there's usually too much swearing. That is why this song was so hilarious to me.
The tiny few of you guys that took this to heart and were honestly, totally upset? The few YouTube kids who claimed that because of this song, they were going to throw away their DS version of FFIV? THANK YOU! It is people like you that give me a reason to laugh. Laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh.

[fester]

Now, for all you folks who chimed in and haven't posted in a blue moon - or ever - before this mix, how about throwing some positive comments to a few of the other 1,800+ mixes maybe you DID enjoy, past & present?

I'll take you up on that. There have been some amazing remixes done over the years and I feel bad for not giving them the praise they deserve.

[RDX]

Now, for all you folks who chimed in and haven't posted in a blue moon - or ever - before this mix, how about throwing some positive comments to a few of the other 1,800+ mixes maybe you DID enjoy, past & present?
I would, but I have nothing constructive to say. My posts would probably look like spam, since most of them would be like "This one's awesome" and that's it. I'll try anyway though.

Also isn't this thread done yet? Not that I'm expecting it to be locked or anything, but I think everything that could've been said has been stated. So stop whining, both sides.

[Joshua Morse]

..... arguably the easiest genre that people do around here.


Though I completely disagree with the statement, I think I can see where you're coming on this one, Brandon. To the untrained ear, hip-hop can seem like the easiest thing in the world to write. However, we should all bear in mind that many more elements come to into play outside the arrangement itself--you'd find similar elements in electronic music in general. In essence, it may not be as easy as you think to write *good* hip-hop.

[Vandril]

I hate rap and related musics. However, I still found the "flow" of this song caught me.
I'm the kind of guy who can ignore the words while still hearing them. I can hear the sounds of the words, the part that makes lyrics good if you ignore their meaning, while still not trying to understand what the words mean. I couldn't tell you most of what was sang here, I just don't remember. Anyway, despite all the problems with lyrics I keep hearing about, the tune and flow of the song was catchy enough to make a guy who hates the genre of music it's in hum along with it. That says something right there.

[prophetik]

this piece is a gem.

the people who think tha this song is bad are allowing their general prejudices against rap or hip-hop to show through.

yes, this is the internet. in order to be cool, you have to know the memes, listen to obscure (usually shitty) artists, visit 4chan, and be ready to fire off smarmy responses to anything different than the norm.

this is different than the norm. therefore, it's being ridiculed.

that auto-response is bullshit.

for those who don't know, olr came OUT of ocr - meaning that mixes like this do have a place here. ous and ocr have had a history that's been checkered at best - meaning that the fact that it's community 'insiders' doing the track means jack.

oh, and strader, you're an idiot if you think rap is the easiest genre ever. give it a shot and tell me how easy it is :<

[DCT]

the people who think tha this song is bad are allowing their general prejudices against rap or hip-hop to show through.

oh, and strader, you're an idiot if you think rap is the easiest genre ever. give it a shot and tell me how easy it is :<

The end. *walks away*

[Brandon Strader]

I've made rap. It's the easiest thing I've ever done. I wasn't just pulling that out of nowhere. But that's off topic, right?

People saying this is bad has nothing to do with prejudices against rap or hip-hop. That's a really shallow way of thinking about it.

Please stop dragging me back into this debate, I apologized and said my piece now I'm done.

[suzumebachi]

the people who think tha this song is bad are allowing their general prejudices against rap or hip-hop to show through.
absolute bullshit. that's like saying anyone who doesn't like tiger woods doesn't like black people. dumbest fucking argument i've heard on this site in ages.

[Sir_NutS]

this piece is a gem.

the people who think tha this song is bad are allowing their general prejudices against rap or hip-hop to show through.

Dumb argument is dumb.

I can't say I'm too much into rap or hip hop, I listen to some stuff like NAS and stuff... anyways to me this song was pretty dumb, but I bet some people would enjoy it for what it is. Does it belong to ocr? well, I guess we got to have some rap remixes or something...

[Monobrow]

Okay guys, I am drunk enough to listen to this song. I am not drinking Everclear, but I think you will forgive me. I intend to write this as a real critique drunk too, wish me luck, I will have to spellcheck a LOT! lol


First: I came into this song expecting to hate it, because I am very picky about the rap that I do like.

The samples are kind of blah... The strings annoy the shit out of me, but then again in terms or rap genre, you are supposed to be allowed to use less than stellar samples, in the name of the genre... I personally have problems with this actually, because some of the best rap actually samples music with real instruments, real orchestral, like Busta Rhymes and "Gimme Some More" sampling Psycho for instance. I feel like this song would have done better if you had nixed the strings and actually used the .spc sounds from the actual game instead. Feel me?

The rapping is really bad... You guys used little to no processing... A lot of rap has that "sound" and this just sounds like nice recording equipment with little to no creative processing. No offense but it seems like if you had just thought about the atmosphere a little more, it would have come out a lot better.

Flik comes in later, and you can tell he knows what he is doing, it sounds more like rap... Good job.


The actual arrangement is fine, you guys used the songs creatively, I had no problem with that. The medley of themes work well, though in the defense of critics, FFIV music isn't that hard to weld together, they are all pretty much based off each other, and are very VERY thematic. You picked an easy source to work with.

The bass is nice.

The lyrics do seem lazy, but I think it's really a combination of elements... They would have been more acceptable if atmosphere had been more acceptable... It's just, I don't even care about the lyrics, I want a hook... The hook doesn't feel so compelling enough for me to really listen... And the fact that the lyrics (from what other people have said) aren't very clever, just kind of say... So what does this have to offer?

Production is fine, no qualms with recording or anything... My qualms are more with instrument choices, and how you used them, and the atmosphere (or lack thereof) that I got out of this. I can understand how this song rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.



Overall... I don't think this should have been direct posted. There are plenty of way better joke mixes that have been NO'd, way too many times in the past. This is definitely OLR material. But w/e, it happened so now all we got is the critiques in the review thread... I mean... even joecam doesn't really know why the song was direct posted, and no offense to him at ALL, but I actually don't know why someone would WANT to submit this... But that's really personal preference... You guys had fun, this is representative of that... I can at least understand that much.

I would say this is way below par, especially for rap... And rap is way underrepresented on this site. I would have really loved to hear someone really take it to the next level... Maybe next time.

(can you guys believe I was drunk? I think I did okay)

[JJT]

The first OCR mix to feature an incest reference. You guys should be proud.

[joe_cam]

The rapping is really bad... You guys used little to no processing... A lot of rap has that "sound" and this just sounds like nice recording equipment with little to no creative processing. No offense but it seems like if you had just thought about the atmosphere a little more, it would have come out a lot better.

Flik comes in later, and you can tell he knows what he is doing, it sounds more like rap... Good job.

Care to elaborate what you mean by "processing" here?
We all recorded in the same room with the same mic and same equipment. Unless you're talking about something totally different.
If you mean you don't think we sound "rap" enough, you're talking about THREE INCREDIBLY WHITE GUYS. One who made every effort to sound as over the top white gangsta as possible, one who came here and already admitted he can't rap and can barely sing without sounding like a girl and one who is Flik.

even joecam doesn't really know why the song was direct posted, and no offense to him at ALL, but I actually don't know why someone would WANT to submit this...

I said I didn't EXPECT it to be direct posted.
Why did we submit this? Because we made a song that we are incredibly pleased with and wanted to share it with everybody else, whether they liked it or not.
WE like it, and in our eyes, that's all that matters to us. The fact that it made it onto this site just feels like a small bit of validation towards what we did.
That's kind of a dick thing to say that you don't know why somebody would WANT to submit this. Because we're happy with our song and I made the call to submit it with Mustin's OK. That's why I submitted it.

[prophetik]

absolute bullshit. that's like saying anyone who doesn't like tiger woods doesn't like black people. dumbest fucking argument i've heard on this site in ages.

no, it's like saying that someone thinks that garth brooks is bad because they don't like country :< or, more correctly, that a virtuoso like chris thile (the guy from nickel creek) is bad because they don't like bluegrass.

[zyko]

this rap sucks because there's no black people in it

[Catharsis]

Yay! More songs with incest in them please! Also, more direct-posting FTW. Did I cover it all?

You do realize that this is actually a form of incentive for us to post mixes like this? If it gets long-time lurkers to finally participate and say something, that's kind of a plus :nicework:
Maybe I'm not reading this right, but that sure sounds like you're saying you would post things simply to get a reaction out of people. Is that the purpose of this site, or is the purpose?...
Founded in 1999, OverClocked ReMix is an organization dedicated to the appreciation, preservation, and interpretation of video game music.(Speaking of which, I don't really see this interpretation from Final Fantasy IV at all, but hey, in an age where people feel free to think/believe whatever they want with no consequences, who am I to say anything contrary? "Interpretation" is a meaningless word now.)

Now, for all you folks who chimed in and haven't posted in a blue moon - or ever - before this mix, how about throwing some positive comments to a few of the other 1,800+ mixes maybe you DID enjoy, past & present?
That sounds like a fabulous idea. I haven't in a while, and I'll try to start doing that again. There are many, many great songs here, and I listen to OCR stuff just about every day.

[Zombie]

dub version plz

but it's an okay mix. i like the beats. not too keen on the rapping but i had a couple lol's i guess.

[suzumebachi]

nonsense

I GET IT NOW! everyone who likes country must like garth brooks, everyone who likes bluegrass must like nickel creek, and everyone who likes hip-hop must like this song! it makes perfect sense!

[DarkeSword]

This song is great. :mrgreen:

[Fishy]

that a virtuoso like chris thile (the guy from nickel creek) is bad because they don't like bluegrass.

Except no one can say Chris Thile is bad, as he is a professional mandolin shredder and therefore awesome.

[prophetik]

his new band, Punch Brothers (mandolin banjo violin upright bass guitar), is absolutely amazing. they do a four-movement thing that's like 26 minutes or so, flat out incredible. so progressive, and yet so down to earth.

[Elex Synn]

As soon as I read the review of this song, and listened to it, I was pretty amazed how accurately I pegged how this thread would go. :???:

Anyways, I finally have something to follow up 'Rhymes with Elixir' on my winamp list. :smile:

[Josh Whelchel]

On a side note, this thread is tagged with vocals, but the common tag up to this point has been vocal.

http://ocremix.org/forums/tags.php?tag=vocal

(;

[Brandon Strader]

On a side note, this thread is tagged with vocals, but the common tag up to this point has been vocal.

http://ocremix.org/forums/tags.php?tag=vocal

(;
There's more than 1 vocal though, so it's plural. :-D

It's not everyday that you get an epic composition with multiple vocalists!

[Ardus]

Brilliant remix if you don't listen to the lyrics.

[daJungKI]

"da black market" is one of my favorite mixes. never fails to put a smile on my face and get my head bobbin. 8-) i've been listening to ocr for over a decade, and at the time it was a new thing--vocal arrangements were scarce and hip-hop moreso (dct's "memories frozen in time" was posted earlier that year, and the excellent "niggaz 4 life" the year before). i went in not knowing what to expect and liked it instantly. the beat is simple, yet groovy and catchy--at just the right laid-back i-don't-give-a-fuck kinda tempo; but, the real draw was the lyrics and execution, both which impressed me and had me laughing at the same time. to think that i still regard the piece highly five years since its creation is testament to both the quality of the arrangement and clever execution of the lyrics.

despite sounding incredibly "white" you guys had some nice rhymes and flow, and i really, really dug the fact that you portrayed ness and co. as this group of hardass mofos, which in a sense, they were ('cause giygas sure as hell wasn't messin around). and flik's verse is just sick, incredibly sick. white or not, those kinda lyrical acrobatics take talent.

so sorry it's five years late, but...joe, mythril, d-lux, flik--thank you for such a kickass mix. :grin:



well, now that i've established myself as a fan (i come in peace!), i've gotta say--not diggin this mix quite as much. i definitely respect all musicians involved and the spirit through which the piece was birthed; i think that in the end musicians should make music they enjoy and just have fun with it. i don't particularly object with the fact that it was posted or the method thereof--not my calls to make, anyway. ocr has posted far far worse stuff in the past, most of which has since been removed after its new submission guidelines came into effect, but "everclear hangover iv" is certainly produced well and has a decent beat.

it's not quite my stylistic cup of tea--i prefer more melodic and funky beats to dirty south/crunk type beats, but it gets the job done. my main beef is with the lyrics--not because they're offensive or anything like that, but they're just...empty. lacking purpose. not explicit or profane enough to offend, not intense or stylish enough to impress, not humorous or witty enough to make you snigger--it is exactly as lame as the subject matter itself; namely, getting drunk off your ass and letting your dick get you in trouble.

i don't think vocal game mixes' lyrics need to be about or even reference the game, but that was one of the elements that made "da black market" great. it took an ordinary kid with a striped shirt and baseball cap and threw him into a world where he was a badass with a posse ready to fuck pokey up. not only did the lyrics make some great reference to the game but they were clever, and the rappers did a bang-up job.

so once again, i'm all for having fun and all that, and i'm glad you guys are still doing your thing. ocr may be serious guideline business but good to know that these types of mixes make it through once in awhile. but, i would really, very really much like to see another mix along the lines of "da black market". this mix feels like a small step back. which, to be fair, is understandable since you guys weren't exactly priming it to be the best mix out there, but as a fan, this makes me want more, 'cause i know what you guys are capable of.

and i'll be damned if i won't wait another five years to get it.

till then, keep it realz yo

[WillRock]

Relistening to this, I gotta say, this is pretty funny. Nice work guys :D

[Martin Penwald]

I, for one, enjoyed this remix. Yes, the lyrics don't have much purpose to them; they're just about having fun and getting into trouble. For what they're intented to be, they're spot on.

However, as djp pointed out in his write-up, the lyrics sometimes "seem to be aiming too hard for the jugular of those they are bound to offend." Especially Flik's part "I just came on your face! But it's not so bad You got practice with your dad" is way over the top; a little less would've been more.

Overall, I enjoyed past works like Da black market and River City Rap more, but still, I'm having fun with this one.

[A-RoN]

I‘m impressed at the directions this thread took. To bring us back on track though, I think we can all agree on one thing when looking at a remix of this kind of flavour:

Any form of words, lyrics, poetry, and sentences, with or without entertaining expression, vulgar or fluffy, humorous or serious, are more than just letters fused together. They contain a power, gigantic or small, that can either build or destroy something. And of course, profanity's purpose is only a back-up move to make something or someone spitting those words more powerful than everything else but in reality displays how weak and hurt people really are. The power of words causes controversy that does not sleep, praise that leaves a listener begging for more, dismissal that will help someone move on, and violent opposition that proclaims what the opposing party believes as truth worth dying for. This mix is no different. If words, songs, essays, profanity, and lyrics were just letters on paper or literally audible evaporated spit, and yet they do not communicate something powerful (positive or negative), which in fact they ALWAYS DO, ALL rap/lyrical remixes would NEVER exist on OCR, djpretzel would never post a disclaimer in his description, and this thread will be pretty much dead quiet.

I may even include this post in future commentary if I decide to actually submit a remix with vocals here (which would probably be highly unlikely).

[Lint]

Vulgarity! Violation of the Poetry of Rap! Veneration of Immaturity! Void of Creativity!

That was my impression of the past 10 pages of comments.

Whatever, I think my biggest problem with the song is that I feel like the chorus could have happened one less time in the song. Maybe not using it as the intro and conclusion or something. Though the creative changes to the final line are neat. I would love to hear a instrumental version of this (like Nuff Sand In Yo Eyez) as well, for the occasions that I find any lyrics distracting. Content-wise, there are jokes/references that I don't understand, which occurs with most music; along with references that I may be misinterpreting.

The mix is fun, but I found one issue that I don't think was addressed earlier.

I challenge the Crakaz & Co's capacity to comsume alcohol. After any single person has consumed 10 shots of Jager I question their ability to drink any great amount of Everclear, notwithstanding a full case of beer (shared between you all I presume). Spread it out over enough hours and anything is possible, but come on people - let's not get too ridiculous. :roll:

[DarkAura]

I haven't heard this mix until just now. I kinda wish I didn't listen to it. It's not the vulgarity of the track that I mind. It's the fact that the lyrics are just so... corny. The majority of the lines feel forced and fake, as if they're just there to take up space and provide a rhyme for a previous line.

If the sole purpose of the song was to make the audience laugh, the song failed in that respect. If the sole purpose was to offend quite a few people, then judging by the rest of this thread, the song fulfilled its purpose.

[Crulex]

I love this ReMix for one simple reason: It's a joke song that you know is going to piss people off. It's too much fun watching people get all bent out of whack over this. But does it sound good? Sure, if you don't take it seriously. Is it more suited for OLR? Probably. Could it be a little less juvenile? Absolutely. But all in all, I see nothing wrong with most of the production, the lyrics, while corny and white as hell, are okay (but really, let's leave this to Weird Al from now on). This is a ReMix that begs the question to a lot of reviewers: "Why so serious"? Not the best ReMix, at all, but it was worth it for the review thread.

[urdailywater]

Wow, wth. I'm so surprised at this thread. I honestly assumed everyone thought this song was hilarious. I even showed it to a couple of friends and they loved it. I didn't know this song was so controversial.

I love it, btw. :)

[Holy Land]

First time I listened to this, I was unimpressed. The chorus, and lyrics as a whole, are not very hot.

Now I think it has solid beats, and Joe Cam's vocals are spot-on. It really grew on me.

[Mirby]

This is rather hilarious, and I had managed to skip this somehow (probably the same way I skipped Sixto's "Burn, Baby, Burn!" when it came out) until tonight.

It's friggin' hilarious, and the content is just loltacular.

But the part that always gets me is the end.

GOD DAMMIT!!