World of Warcraft

[Cottus&Gyes]

Heres another point to add... If you think it has become too easy, try out the end content yourself. You might enjoy it even more!

I have done Naxx preTBC and quit the PvE scene after I killed Kael (that was when he was hard, of course). I personally don't think I am going to fly through any of the content. I was not in the beta, and that was on purpose, and plan to wipe many times on the new bosses :)

[suzumebachi]

Death Knight is extremely fun. Not sure I have the mechanics quite nailed yet though. But I seem to be doing pretty good. I suck at PvP, but then again I'm on dialup and therefore permanently out of melee range unless my target stands perfectly still for 3 seconds. Whenever I death grip another player, they get pulled to wherever I was standing 3 seconds ago. :(

Anyways, I briefly tried out blood, but quickly decided to go with unholy. It's pretty awesome. Like I said I'm not sure I've got the mechanics down yet, but I can solo groups of 4-5 mobs no problem. Just run in and grab aggro, hit em with my 2 diseases + ebon disease thingy, pestilence, death and decay, unholy blight, then spam death strike until everything is dead.

I can solo some elites too. At level 61 I soloed the hand of kargath guy no problem. But I seem to have trouble with higher armor elites, like the colossals in HFP. I can usually solo them, but I usually die and have to finish them off in zombie form.

Anyone have any tips on improving my DK skillz?

[Eulogic]

I started off Unholy, then respecced Blood. Blood seems best for solo grinding, though, as you say, Unholy is better for AoE. For most mobs, my Blood rotation is 2 diseases, heart strike, heart strike, then obliterate. If that doesn't finish them off, I toss death coils at them until my runes are back up. If my health is ever visibly low, I use death strike, and if I'm ever actually in danger, I can start throwing out my CDs.

[[]Diracy]

You have to remember a few things:

1. That the Vashj and Kael-equivalent raids aren't even out yet, and this is basically the Wrath-level Kara. These two guilds had Kara itself down in a matter of days as well, and both had Muru and KJ down within a few days of them being available as well, once the barriers came down.
I think the content is tuned just fine. Some guilds are just that dedicated.

You are right that these raids are "entry level". Blue posts from the official forums even said that Naxx is more or less a beginner content. Much like Karazhan was for TBC or how Malygos is the Ony equivalent. The link from Otaku is terribly misleading to say that all the lich king raids have been cleared. We have just begun the game and we have another two years before we even see the end.

As for myself, the best i've seen in KJ down to 7%, and that was last Monday, our last raiding day of BC. We were in Sunwell when the 3.0 nerf hit, and it sped things up like crazy for us to get over the Muru hump.

I think its great that they allowed most of the casual players to see or even clear the level 70 end game content. Raiding is a huge part of the game and reducing the HP of all raids by 30% gave much more people a chance to experience what only a small percentage of players could only see. You shouldn't have to raid six hours a night to experience a game. Of course there are those same people who do spend that amount of time every day who would counterpoint that arguement.

2. The way things are designed this time around, you should be able to raid these entry levels with your level 80 quest gear; my raiding priest is only 74, but seeing some of the higher levels in the guild replace sunwell gear with late 70's gear ( for example one of our hunters replaced her Eredar twins bow with a level 77 blue) makes me think gearwise we'll be fine. I havn't seen any upgrades yet, but that just means i make a lot of cash selling quest rewards.

Same here, I have T6 and some sunwell gear and have only replaced a trinket and my weapon from the new ring of blood quest at 76. From what I remember hearing before the expansion came out was that T4 should last until about 72, T5 to 76 and T6 to 78. But with not having to replace my gear all the time most greens I get from quests or drops I have disenchanted to sell on the AH. Or any items that I repeatedly make to level my tailoring profession, atleast that way I make a little bit of the money invested in things that would normally never sell for much. Or donate them to the guild bank for the enchanters in the guild to level their profession.

[Ramaniscence]

I think what's really important here is...previously, some of the coolest content in the game was only enjoyed by people who didn't really care how cool it was, or what the lore was, but rather just to be the first to do it and say they did (the guy who hit 80 first didn't even quest, nor is he interested in questing at all, he just want to raid to raid. These guys could be playing any MMO with no lore at all and the same game mechanics for all they care). Doing things like this not only allows people who're actually interested in the content to EXPERIENCE the content, but with the heroic 25-mans it also makes things more challenging for the more hardcore PvE pro-squad players.

[wiredzombie]

ah, freaking shit
i've been trying to play for like a week, but all the servers are locked
i'm getting so tired of this

[Bigfoot]

I haven't even installed the game yet. :P

[suzumebachi]

My DK is 67 now. My brother is already level 80 on his pally.

I got to Nagrand and right away I got ganked and camped by a level 80 gnome warrior. Some people. :(

I don't really see the point of levelling up so fast. You're going to have to wait for everyone else to catch up before you can really start doing instances or PvP anyways.

[wiredzombie]

I don't really see the point of levelling up so fast. You're going to have to wait for everyone else to catch up before you can really start doing instances or PvP anyways.
I feel the need to level up faster
After playing for Lethon for so long, and starting a new character...its a pain in the ass

[suzumebachi]

Starting a new character, sure. But people like my brother who was already level 70 (three times over: paladin, priest, mage) hit level 80 in like 4 days. He spends most of his time now farming blacksmithing mats because there's not enough other level 80s to raid or PvP with.

Anyways DK is 72 now. Once I hit 70 and went to Northrend, my leveling speed dropped significantly. It took me a full day of questing to go from 70 to 71. Quest itemization is serious crap, I'm still wearing the blue shit I started with and it's starting to show. I can't AoE tank 5-6 mobs at a time anymore. Hell, it takes 3 Unholy Blights and 2 Death and Decays and about 500 blood strikes to kill things now. Pretty frustrating.

On the other hand, Northrend is pretty epic. They put so much more detail into it than Outland, it makes Outland look like a piece of crap. Warsong Hold and Vengeance Landing are both pretty sweet. And the crazy Vrykul villages built all along the inside of the canyons and shit... It's like they actually put effort into it! Plus some of the quests are actually fun. Like the one where you get the siege tank and go blow up 100 scourge and talk smack to Kel'Thuzad. Even the models are higher quality. The new worgs don't walk around like deformed wolves with metersticks permanently shoved up their asses. And the vrykul actually have like, faces! It's nice.

Except for the Taunka. Taurens with busted faces? What's that all about? They use the exact same models and voices even. Lame. :(

[wiredzombie]

Starting a new character, sure. But people like my brother who was already level 70 (three times over: paladin, priest, mage) hit level 80 in like 4 days. He spends most of his time now farming blacksmithing mats because there's not enough other level 80s to raid or PvP with.

Anyways DK is 72 now. Once I hit 70 and went to Northrend, my leveling speed dropped significantly. It took me a full day of questing to go from 70 to 71. Quest itemization is serious crap, I'm still wearing the blue shit I started with and it's starting to show. I can't AoE tank 5-6 mobs at a time anymore. Hell, it takes 3 Unholy Blights and 2 Death and Decays and about 500 blood strikes to kill things now. Pretty frustrating.

On the other hand, Northrend is pretty epic. They put so much more detail into it than Outland, it makes Outland look like a piece of crap. Warsong Hold and Vengeance Landing are both pretty sweet. And the crazy Vrykul villages built all along the inside of the canyons and shit... It's like they actually put effort into it! Plus some of the quests are actually fun. Like the one where you get the siege tank and go blow up 100 scourge and talk smack to Kel'Thuzad. Even the models are higher quality. The new worgs don't walk around like deformed wolves with metersticks permanently shoved up their asses. And the vrykul actually have like, faces! It's nice.

Except for the Taunka. Taurens with busted faces? What's that all about? They use the exact same models and voices even. Lame. :(

Do you have any tips for leveling up quicker
I'm pretty excited to get the new expansion, but as of now, i have no job, so i have no way of getting it anytime soon

[Vilecat]

Hey, I wish I could roll Taunka :( Agreed it's a bit lame they picked the exact same voice and model for it though.

The first lv or 2 takes a while, because of the difference between Outland and Northrend mobs (hp and all) and because the quest rewards until then are equivalent to Outland blues. Once you get some worthy upgrades it's all good.

I outleveled both Rama and Starla, but since I won't be able (or shouldn't be) to play before the end of the semester, everyone and even Suzu should get to 80 before I do.

Nothing compares to Northrend if you look back (except maybe certain raids). It's grandiose wherever you look, some of the quests/dailies are quite different and/or fun to do (LET'S GO KIDNAP BABIES!) and instances all have something to not make them completely boring and bothersome. Edit: the tabards for gaining rep in lv80 dungeons is a neat idea.

[OA]

just hit 78 on my raiding priest; as soon as I hit 80, i'll start levelling my paladin on Illidan. :-)

LOVE the expansion so far; and the new battleground is so awesome I've already picked up 40 marks for it.

[Jarvi]

Has anyone been questing in Icecrown? Quested from 77-80 there, it's just crazy. all the quests are so amazing.

[OA]

I just started and it's amazingly good.

[suzumebachi]

Do you have any tips for leveling up quicker
I'm pretty excited to get the new expansion, but as of now, i have no job, so i have no way of getting it anytime soon
Find a levelling guide for Horde (just google it there's tons of them--but preferably a newer one that takes into account the Dustwallow Marsh and group quest changes) and get the QuestHelper (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/quest-helper.aspx) mod. Don't run back to turn in a quest as soon as you complete it, especially if you have other quests nearby (QuestHelper will help a lot with this). Don't be afraid to set your hearth to the nearest quest hub and actually use it. Don't be afraid to use whatever cooldowns you have to kill things faster. Also, certain classes will level up a lot faster than others. For example, warriors level pretty slowly (lots of downtime for healing up), but hunters (any spec), mages (probably frost/arcane for AoE grinding), and druids (especially feral up until level 60 or so, then either feral or balance after that) level quickly. The other classes are capable of leveling quickly but generally require better gear in order to do so.

Another tip is if you're levelling a highly hit-rating dependant class, like rogue, warrior, or enhancement shaman, don't be afraid to grind out a level, but try to avoid grinding on mobs that are higher level than you. The amount of extra XP you will get for killing them won't be worth the extra time it takes to kill them and the extra downtime it takes to recover from a fight. Stick to mobs ideally 1-3 levels below you, you should be able to tear through them fast and easy with little downtime, and make more efficient XP gains. This also goes for AoE grinding. Really it goes for just about everything but hunters. If you're a hunter just kill anything yellow, even orange if you need it for a quest.

Also, finding a questing buddy at or around your level can help, but only when you actually work in tandem (ie: mage AoEs fuckton of guys while priest keeps him alive, etc). Otherwise the XP split will hurt more than it helps. But this isn't really needed anymore, especially since there are very few, if any, group quests before level 60 anymore.

But most of all, use a levelling guide and get questhelper, that alone will speed you up a ridiculous amount.

Also if I'm on (Grundyman or Wolfenleid on Illidan) and you need a run-through a dungeon and I'm not in the middle of anything, I'll be happy to help.

[Vilecat]

Has anyone been questing in Icecrown? Quested from 77-80 there, it's just crazy. all the quests are so amazing.
I was but kept getting ganked by a lv80 shaman each time I was in the middle of a fight. He kept doing that all evening to others too, just to blow his Spirit Wolf CD on horde.

I went back to DB to finish the Wrathgate chain (fucking sweet but damnit I want the sound to work!) and go back to Icecrown later. If there's more stupid gankfest I'll proly alternate between Icecrown and either Stormpikes or Sholazar Basin. Stormpikes doesn't look that fun (certainly not on a reg flyer) but there's faction rep, and Sholazar has the Nesing chain.

[wiredzombie]

Find a levelling guide for Horde (just google it there's tons of them--but preferably a newer one that takes into account the Dustwallow Marsh and group quest changes) and get the QuestHelper (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/quest-helper.aspx) mod. Don't run back to turn in a quest as soon as you complete it, especially if you have other quests nearby (QuestHelper will help a lot with this). Don't be afraid to set your hearth to the nearest quest hub and actually use it. Don't be afraid to use whatever cooldowns you have to kill things faster. Also, certain classes will level up a lot faster than others. For example, warriors level pretty slowly (lots of downtime for healing up), but hunters (any spec), mages (probably frost/arcane for AoE grinding), and druids (especially feral up until level 60 or so, then either feral or balance after that) level quickly. The other classes are capable of leveling quickly but generally require better gear in order to do so.

Another tip is if you're levelling a highly hit-rating dependant class, like rogue, warrior, or enhancement shaman, don't be afraid to grind out a level, but try to avoid grinding on mobs that are higher level than you. The amount of extra XP you will get for killing them won't be worth the extra time it takes to kill them and the extra downtime it takes to recover from a fight. Stick to mobs ideally 1-3 levels below you, you should be able to tear through them fast and easy with little downtime, and make more efficient XP gains. This also goes for AoE grinding. Really it goes for just about everything but hunters. If you're a hunter just kill anything yellow, even orange if you need it for a quest.

Also, finding a questing buddy at or around your level can help, but only when you actually work in tandem (ie: mage AoEs fuckton of guys while priest keeps him alive, etc). Otherwise the XP split will hurt more than it helps. But this isn't really needed anymore, especially since there are very few, if any, group quests before level 60 anymore.

But most of all, use a levelling guide and get questhelper, that alone will speed you up a ridiculous amount.

Also if I'm on (Grundyman or Wolfenleid on Illidan) and you need a run-through a dungeon and I'm not in the middle of anything, I'll be happy to help.

wow, thats alot to take in
thanks dude, i didnt know really any of that
i'll hit you up when i get further up
i'm like level 5 with my tauren druid

[wiredzombie]

Find a levelling guide for Horde (just google it there's tons of them--but preferably a newer one that takes into account the Dustwallow Marsh and group quest changes) and get the QuestHelper (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/quest-helper.aspx) mod. Don't run back to turn in a quest as soon as you complete it, especially if you have other quests nearby (QuestHelper will help a lot with this). Don't be afraid to set your hearth to the nearest quest hub and actually use it. Don't be afraid to use whatever cooldowns you have to kill things faster. Also, certain classes will level up a lot faster than others. For example, warriors level pretty slowly (lots of downtime for healing up), but hunters (any spec), mages (probably frost/arcane for AoE grinding), and druids (especially feral up until level 60 or so, then either feral or balance after that) level quickly. The other classes are capable of leveling quickly but generally require better gear in order to do so.

Another tip is if you're levelling a highly hit-rating dependant class, like rogue, warrior, or enhancement shaman, don't be afraid to grind out a level, but try to avoid grinding on mobs that are higher level than you. The amount of extra XP you will get for killing them won't be worth the extra time it takes to kill them and the extra downtime it takes to recover from a fight. Stick to mobs ideally 1-3 levels below you, you should be able to tear through them fast and easy with little downtime, and make more efficient XP gains. This also goes for AoE grinding. Really it goes for just about everything but hunters. If you're a hunter just kill anything yellow, even orange if you need it for a quest.

Also, finding a questing buddy at or around your level can help, but only when you actually work in tandem (ie: mage AoEs fuckton of guys while priest keeps him alive, etc). Otherwise the XP split will hurt more than it helps. But this isn't really needed anymore, especially since there are very few, if any, group quests before level 60 anymore.

But most of all, use a levelling guide and get questhelper, that alone will speed you up a ridiculous amount.

Also if I'm on (Grundyman or Wolfenleid on Illidan) and you need a run-through a dungeon and I'm not in the middle of anything, I'll be happy to help.

ok, so i added both to my friends list
add me sometime
Atex

[Equinox]

so like i rolled alliance rogue now level 61 and my battlegroup sucks i have to get off this shitty server, also dk's need to be erased from game

ulduar today or what

i'm usually horde but you guys know kakumei right

well i started playing with him a while ago and he was alliance so i had little option, also rogues own

the real point here is dk's are retarded, a monkey with downs could play one and farm arena

also ulduar today, probably not imo

[GeckoYamori]

Funny, that's what people were saying about rogues before DKs were introduced.

[Eulogic]

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/3p1/index.xml#ulduartrailer

ulduar trailer for those who haven't seen it

humans straight-up need a better king

garrosh sucks, but he's not the warchief or anything

[Powerlord]

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/3p1/index.xml#ulduartrailer

ulduar trailer for those who haven't seen it

humans straight-up need a better king

garrosh sucks, but he's not the warchief or anything

OK, I know I haven't really played any of the Wrath content... but who exactly is that human king guy? Last time I checked, the human King (of Stormwind) was the kid...

[GeckoYamori]

He is the little kid's father who was gone since WoW launched. They reintroduced him via the official comic.

[Ramaniscence]

Yea, this actually goes right in with the latest WarCraft comics, too. Whihc is really cool because I just started reading them last week. Basically Varian is gettin' played hardcore, and Garrosh too...I suspect it'll all come to frutition in some kind of Legion raid AFTER Icecrown.

[Eulogic]

I figured Garrosh was just a dick, like his dad. To be honest, Blizzard hasn't done much to endear Horde players to him, while Grom was at least fairly likeable. Garrosh went from depressed little girl to having the mentality of a rogue in the guild <RED IS DED!!> camping lowbies. The only reason he's tolerable at all is because Thrall seems to like him. At least Varian "Mad Dog" Wrynn got a comic book where I assume he is portrayed in a more sympathetic light--not that it excuses his behavior. What a horrible king.

[GeckoYamori]

The basis for Varian Wrynn's dickery is mostly from people whining that the Alliance and Horde were getting too buddy-buddy in WoW compared to the previous Warcraft games.

[Eulogic]

The issue being that there really isn't much reason for the factions to exist, much less be in conflict. If they wanted real all-out-war type gameplay, they should've made the Legion or Scourge a playable faction.

[Jarvi]

Ulduar seems cool so far, only gotten to FL and it crashed, but yea. Already much more fun than anything in naxx.

[Equinox]

All of Northrend just crashed on my realm and people can't load if they logged in Dalaran. On top of that i'm getting 2.3k ping and severe FPS drops. blizfail.

[Jarvi]

All of Northrend just crashed on my realm and people can't load if they logged in Dalaran. On top of that i'm getting 2.3k ping and severe FPS drops. blizfail.

yea, like 6 guilds on my server are just stuck in Ulduar now

[Buttercup]

The issue being that there really isn't much reason for the factions to exist, much less be in conflict. If they wanted real all-out-war type gameplay, they should've made the Legion or Scourge a playable faction.

Or, you know, put the two factions AT WAR with one another.

It's always Horde and Alliance vs. some greater evil. Yes this is a throwback from the end of WC3, which was awesome, but if that's how the game's gonna be drop the other shoe Blizzard and just let Alliance and Horde mingle.

That and the implementation of hero classes has left much to be desired.

I'm done complaining now.

[Eulogic]

Or, you know, put the two factions AT WAR with one another.

They were only at war when the Horde was possessed by evildemonbloodrarrr. All-out war doesn't make sense when they're both reasonable groups trying to accomplish the same goals.

[Buttercup]

They were only at war when the Horde was possessed by evildemonbloodrarrr. All-out war doesn't make sense when they're both reasonable groups trying to accomplish the same goals.

War with the forsaken would make sense, neither faction has any reason to fully trust them. Plus the forsaken have little allegiance to anyone but themselves, and I've always felt they should be their own little deal, they're only horde-y because they're ugly.

And the only reason the Alliance and Horde have the same goals is because they are still fighting the same battles from WC3, the legion and the scourge. The scourge I can see as a viable story line, but it's like they threw Outlands and the legion into the mix because they were out of ideas. Without some common foe, there'd easily be a way to incite war between the two. I mean elves are, essentially, dicks.

[Eulogic]

The Legion has been the big bad guy since the beginning. The Scourge is just recycling WC3.

The Forsaken joining the Horde makes more sense than the Night Elves joining the Alliance.

[Buttercup]

The Legion has been the big bad guy since the beginning. The Scourge is just recycling WC3.

But we didn't even know about the Legion until WC3, up until then it was just Orcs vs. Humans; Orcs bad Humans good. The story didn't really start developing until WC3, when we found out about Mannoroth's blood, and Sargeras' involvement yadda yadda yadda. Or was that 2? I'm getting them confused now.

The Forsaken joining the Horde makes more sense than the Night Elves joining the Alliance.

And more sense than the Blood Elves even existing.

[Triad Orion]

The Blood Elves themselves and them being in the Horde makes perfect sense. Given the utter betrayal of the High Elves by Garithos in WCIII: Frozen Throne, they were utterly abandoned by the Human Alliance for *no good reason.* Seeing as how the world is filled with angry things trying to kill EVERYTHING (Legion/Scourge/Non-Darkspear or Revantusk Trolls), the High Elves were left to fend for themselves. They weren't given much option in this situation. With Sylvanas helming the Forsaken, and with them as part of the Horde, they had a way in. They knew in part that they would need the Horde's protection to help survive, and more importantly, to reach Outland.

It's a pretty freaking sound reason for them to change and join those they once opposed. Betrayal by their closest allies? Stuck alone and still rebuilding amidst a war far greater they could fight on their own? Yeah. They didn't have much choice, and given the political circumstances within the Horde, it was a good move for both sides. Moreover? All of this on top of fighting a dangerous addiction to arcane magic? I think the Blood Elves have perfect reason for existing within lore, and certainly better reason to exist than the playable, non-Lost or Broken One versions of the Draenei.

And honestly, all-out war is a bad plan for every party involved. Think about it this way: in real life, if you're faced with a threat greater than the guy you've hated for a long time, are you going to wail on him and weaken both of yourselves so the greater threat can destroy you? Yeah. You're not going to do that. It's stupid. And the fact that both Garrosh and Wrynn want to slaughter the other side, they're just being idiotic. There's a reason why Thrall and Jaina are typically more well-liked as characters. Because they actually have *sense.*

And as for the Forsaken wanting to cook up plagues to kill humans, most of them belong to the Royal Apothecary Society under the treacherous Varimathras. It's revealed that while the Forsaken generally dislike the living, not nearly all of them are willing to use the equivalent of biological weapons against the other side, especially considering doing such would jeopardize their own safety within the Horde. Survival is the main concern of the actual, loyal Forsaken. Again, the root of the problem lies with the *Legion* in this case, as Varimathras's loyalty always lied with them.

So all out war between the two factions during World of WarCraft? Generally a very bad plan. I actually rather like the lore of the world where it is; very tense between the two protagonist factions. War is brewing, with little more than common sense holding it back. I don't know, I feel this is a good place for the lore to be; PVP is generally treated as border skirmishes, which works perfectly. Happened frequently in history.

[JoeFu]

BE is horde because Thrall is amazing. He is seriously the best character in WC. That new video introducing Ulduar makes him even more awesome, also made me hate Alliance even more.

[Ramaniscence]

But we didn't even know about the Legion until WC3, up until then it was just Orcs vs. Humans; Orcs bad Humans good. The story didn't really start developing until WC3, when we found out about Mannoroth's blood, and Sargeras' involvement yadda yadda yadda. Or was that 2? I'm getting them confused now.

In WarCraft 1 you kill Medivh who at the time is possessed by Sargeras. Which is how/why he came in contact with Gul'dan and brought the orcs to Azeroth from Dreanor. 'Cause Kil'jaedan was over on that end messing stuff up over there.

[The Xyco]

After browsing WoWiki for a good three hours at work, I can safely conclude that the Warcraft story line is the most grotesquely convoluted piece of work I have ever encountered in a video game. I feel like I have seen all these names and characters, but can't even begin to map it all out. Maybe that's the folly of starting with WoW and trying to backtrack.

This is also why WotLK is such a great expansion. ALL of the new content in the game can be more or less traced to one figure -- and he's on the cover of the box.

[Ramaniscence]

This is also why WotLK is such a great expansion. ALL of the new content in the game can be more or less traced to one figure -- and he's on the cover of the box.

Wait...what? Arthas isn't even a small part of the lore. Shit 3.1 is all about Yogg-Saron, and the old Gods, and the Titans. Malygos is about the Dragon Aspects, which in turn has to do with the Titans. ALL of the Storm Peaks is Titan involved. A good chunk of Borean Tundra, Icecrown, and Dragonblight deals directly with Dragonflights. There's some development on the Infinite/Bronze Dragonflight storyline, as well as the Argent Dawn/Scarlet Crusade stuff. The Deathwing storyline is being continued from the Netherwing Ledge stuff, and the Grim Batol stuff....there's just ore all over the place that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Arthas. Are their even any Scourge IN Storm Peaks?

And pretty much as far as I'm concerned it's all going to lead back to the Legion again, because with Varimithas, Balnazaar, and Mal'Ganis up to the same crud as always, it's almost inevitable that Sargeras and Kil'jaedan are trying to take Arthas down, too.

Also:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bZcxtcc0qmZGxfVofzscq0z

Pretty much the best dual spec ever.

[The Xyco]

The distinction I am making is in relation to Burning Crusade. When I made it to TBC zones, I couldn't figure out why I was going there (on a level beyond just getting to 70 and moar phat loot). Hell, I think I spent about two weeks just fighting different-colored orcs.

Conversely, from the moment I set foot in Northrend, it was ample and clear that I was there to fight Arthas -- first and foremost. Blizz did a good job of not making him the abstraction that Illidian was either, I've encountered him three times now since I've started playing again. I know who his lieutenants and generals are as well when I encounter them.

This is at least the impression I am getting coming into the story arc midway through old-world WoW, given the Death Knight intro, the Thassarian arc, the quests in Borean Tundra and Howling Fjord, Dragonblight, etc.