World of Warcraft

[aragornx45]

I'll keep my original post way down below...i've gotten a lot of requests to create a running list of who's on what server...I apologize for letting the thread run so long without doing so...

pst me with your character's name and server and i'll add it to the list.

Server / OCRemix Name / Char Name / Race / Class /

Archimonde / Ramaniscence / ? / Tauren / ? /

Alleria / Raenok / ? / Orc / Shamen /

Balnazzar / GeckoYamori / Geckoyamori / Night Elf / Rogue /

Bleeding Hollow / xinster / xinster / Undead / Mage /
Bleeding Hollow / xinster / Xinister / Tauren / Druid /
Bleeding Hollow / xinster / xinlink / Undead / Warlock /
Bleeding Hollow / xinster / androgenisis / Tauren / Warrior /
Bleeding Hollow / xinster / popdog / Undead / Priest /
Bleeding Hollow / xinster / xaeroth / Orc / Hunter /

Bloodhoof / Ethis / Ethis? / Troll / Hunter /

Darkspear / Beatdown / ? / ? / Rogue /

Daggerspine / Tamwyn / Deranus / Human / Rogue /

Durotan / xamgis / Hailfly / Gnome / Mage


Emerald Dream, EUR. / mecca / mecca? / ? / ? /

Frostmane / Blizihizake / Blizihizake / ? / ? /
Frostmane / Blizihizake / RoflesBurger / ? / ? /

Frostmourne / cheese-cube / Rashaverak / Undead / Mage

Gorefiend / Zircon / Zircon? / Horde / ? /

Gurubashi / Sir Arek the Absolute / Mumbo / Troll / Warrior /

Illidian / RenoCovault / Anaericus / ? / ? /
Iliddian / Ramaniscence / ? / Troll / ? /

Kael-Thas/ GroundTrooper1130 / Icaerenus / ? / Mage/

Kalecgos / Blizihizake / Blizihizake / ? / ? /

Khaz'goroth / TheRedBob / Pyeikel / Night Elf / Rogue /

Maelstrom / Slut / Solitaire / ? / Paladin /
Maelstrom / Slut / Kattara / ? / Thief /

Shadowmoon / hamburgler / Aristh / Human / Paladin /
Shadowmoon / hamburgler / Maya / Night Elf / Druid /
Shadowmoon / M1N1M3 / Colrin / Tauren / Hunter /


Silvermoon / AragornX45 / Aragornx / Human / Mage /

Smolderthorn / Snooper_1989 / ? / Troll / Mage /
Smolderthorn / suzumebachi / Chuckster / Horde / ? /

Spinebreaker / xamgis / Screir / Troll / Rogue

Stormscale / Russell Cox / ? / Horde /

Twisting Nether / suzumebachi / mason / Human / Palidan /
Twisting Nether / The wingless/ True / ? / Warlock /
Twisting Nether / XxcastxX / Virgil / Night Elf / Hunter /
Twisting Nether / DJBren / Bugsi / Gnome / Rogue /



Let me know if something here is incorrect or if you want to be added.




Here's my original post...

Ok...so the game's been out for what, a year now? My brother bought the game a long time ago, but never played it because he didn't want to pay the monthly fee. About 3 weeks ago it was a crappy day and I had nothing to do for a few hours before going out to the bar. So I decided to install and use the 10 day trial...Needless to say, I was hooked.

The game is amazing and I wish that my computer was new enough so that I could enjoy the game's graphics at its best. However, besides the dungeons, the game seems to turn into little more than "Kill X amount of Y creatures" or "Collect X amount of Y materials" and return for a reward. There seems to be very little horde/alliance interaction. The proffessions often seem pointless as well as you can often find or loot items that are better than what you can create (with the exception of maybe alchemy). Despite this, I still love it and find myself wasting lots of my time playing WOW.

I was just curious to hear thoughts from those who have been playing WOW (or any MMORPG) for a couple months. What's it like at those upper levels when there isn't much left to do?

[Zutnunzor]

I played Guild Wars mostly through all the betas and events and was hooked for the time being. I eventually made a guild with a bunch of random people I met.

We did quite well for ourselves, placing in the top 50 of 2000 or so guilds. I'm not sure what guild battles are like right now, but we did over 50 battles at that guild hall map ( I don't know if they have more than one map now, forgive me).

The actual battles were quite intense and very fun.
I remember when I first played though, I thought it was some form of CTF, so our hole team ended up blitzing their base the hole round with one guy carrying the flag around screaming random shit, pretty funny at the time.

Great game nonetheless, a delightful and refreshing change over the usual mmorpg, although GW is more of an mmog than an mmorpg, game is still fun as hell.

[DarkeSword]

I played Guild Wars mostly through all the betas and events and was hooked for the time being. I eventually made a guild with a bunch of random people I met.

We did quite well for ourselves, placing in the top 50 of 2000 or so guilds. I'm not sure what guild battles are like right now, but we did over 50 battles at that guild hall map ( I don't know if they have more than one map now, forgive me).

The actual battles were quite intense and very fun.
I remember when I first played though, I thought it was some form of CTF, so our hole team ended up blitzing their base the hole round with one guy carrying the flag around screaming random shit, pretty funny at the time.

Great game nonetheless, a delightful and refreshing change over the usual mmorpg, although GW is more of an mmog than an mmorpg, game is still fun as hell.

Hey just so you know, when you say the word 'hole' and you mean entire, it's spelled whole.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything; just letting you know.

Anyway, as far as MMOs go, I'm not a big player, but I played RO a long time ago during the alpha days, some of the beta, and on a few private servers. That game is filled with hat quests, but it was still pretty fun as far as the social aspect went.

[zircon]

Ok...so the game's been out for what, a year now? My brother bought the game a long time ago, but never played it because he didn't want to pay the monthly fee. About 3 weeks ago it was a crappy day and I had nothing to do for a few hours before going out to the bar. So I decided to install and use the 10 day trial...Needless to say, I was hooked.

The game is amazing and I wish that my computer was new enough so that I could enjoy the game's graphics at its best. However, besides the dungeons, the game seems to turn into little more than "Kill X amount of Y creatures" or "Collect X amount of Y materials" and return for a reward. There seems to be very little horde/alliance interaction. The proffessions often seem pointless as well as you can often find or loot items that are better than what you can create (with the exception of maybe alchemy). Despite this, I still love it and find myself wasting lots of my time playing WOW.

I was just curious to hear thoughts from those who have been playing WOW (or any MMORPG) for a couple months. What's it like at those upper levels when there isn't much left to do?

The upper levels are the most fun of all. Battlegrounds (two right now, three very soon), challenging instances (5man, 10man, 15, 40, and soon 20 as well), arena PVP, various forms of character-building such as farming for gear or materials for crafting.

Professions may seem useless at lower levels, but in actuality they are very useful. First Aid is amazing, for one thing, and Alchemy is great too (at any level). Blacksmithing produces some of the most formidable weapons in the game, such as Dawn's Edge, Arcanite Reaper, and Core Marksman Rifle. Tailoring creates bags, which are useful for ANYONE, as well as some pretty powerful high end robes and cloth gear. Same goes for leatherworking. And all of these things ultimately have epic recipes that are as good or better than similar drops. For instance, Belt of the Archmage is an epic cloth recipe from tailoring and it's one of the best belts in the game.

On a good PVP server you will always have some fun PVP encounters, particularly in groups. I can't even count the amount of times I've gone into an instance area like Dire Maul or Blackrock Spire and encountered a full alliance group. Hunting people in areas like Stranglethorn Vale is fun too, if you're into that sort of thing. Though personally, I prefer battlegrounds since they are designed specifically for PVP combat.

I've only grown to like the game more and more since I've hit level 60. Once you complete the "grind" you get access to all sorts of fun areas. It's just a blast to be coordinating strategies in Warsong Gulch in real time over Ventrilo as you're playing the game. It's great.

[Zutnunzor]

I played Guild Wars mostly through all the betas and events and was hooked for the time being. I eventually made a guild with a bunch of random people I met.

We did quite well for ourselves, placing in the top 50 of 2000 or so guilds. I'm not sure what guild battles are like right now, but we did over 50 battles at that guild hall map ( I don't know if they have more than one map now, forgive me).

The actual battles were quite intense and very fun.
I remember when I first played though, I thought it was some form of CTF, so our hole team ended up blitzing their base the hole round with one guy carrying the flag around screaming random shit, pretty funny at the time.

Great game nonetheless, a delightful and refreshing change over the usual mmorpg, although GW is more of an mmog than an mmorpg, game is still fun as hell.

Hey just so you know, when you say the word 'hole' and you mean entire, it's spelled whole.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything; just letting you know.

Anyway, as far as MMOs go, I'm not a big player, but I played RO a long time ago during the alpha days, some of the beta, and on a few private servers. That game is filled with hat quests, but it was still pretty fun as far as the social aspect went.


Ahh. None taken. Thanks!

[Gamelore]

Ok...so the game's been out for what, a year now? My brother bought the game a long time ago, but never played it because he didn't want to pay the monthly fee. About 3 weeks ago it was a crappy day and I had nothing to do for a few hours before going out to the bar. So I decided to install and use the 10 day trial...Needless to say, I was hooked.

The game is amazing and I wish that my computer was new enough so that I could enjoy the game's graphics at its best. However, besides the dungeons, the game seems to turn into little more than "Kill X amount of Y creatures" or "Collect X amount of Y materials" and return for a reward. There seems to be very little horde/alliance interaction. The proffessions often seem pointless as well as you can often find or loot items that are better than what you can create (with the exception of maybe alchemy). Despite this, I still love it and find myself wasting lots of my time playing WOW.

I was just curious to hear thoughts from those who have been playing WOW (or any MMORPG) for a couple months. What's it like at those upper levels when there isn't much left to do?

I play-tested it for 8 months. The first few weeks of exploration are always fun, in any high-budget MMOG. But WoW really shows its ugly side once you get a couple months into it, moreso than most MMOGs I've played. The systems used, like instancing, fast travel time, and having almost no death penalty really cheapen (spoil) the game. It's still unanimously, somewhat "fun" up till level 20, at which point the free trial ends for a reason.

MMORPGs have been done far better.

[Beatdown]

End game EQ1 (pre Luclin) was loads of fun, especially with guilds. There were tons of fun raid zones and difficult mobs to bring down, plus arenas on non PvP servers for people to do whatever. My old guild used to set up all sorts of tournaments with each other by class type (tanks, melee, casters, healers) or do something stupid like getting totally shitfaced and running from one city to another on foot. Whenever we got bored with that we'd just gather up and find a spot to go.

One of our favorite places to go was the Tower of Frozen Shadow, a seven story tower with an extremly mean vampire at the very top and some interesting shit along the way including an undead wedding and library. Some of the best times are getting to like the fourth level and realizing someone left a key behind or watching a guildie fall into a pit of doom for the 8th time. I do have to say a lot of the fun in MMORPG's is what you and your friends make of it. Boy did we have fun.

[Blake]

There is TONS of horde/alliance interaction in a PVP server. Almost to the point it annoys me 8O It can get hard to level in some zones but I've sworn revenge on those damned horde. Being a part of raids is very fun, and when I reach 50+ I'm going to run my own damn raid and make those hordes' lives miserable after they've made me waste a few hours of my time camping my corpse when I was just trying to kill a few more monsters in that zone. If anybody on Kalecgos wants to raid, gimme a pst my name is Blizihizake. I swear man. Whenever I run through the barrens and see all the pvp enabled low levels running like hell from me, I just wave at them and dance at them. But nooo, the ?? hordes that come to our land just gotta zerg and camp.

Oh well. It adds a different aspect to the game, and gives me a sort of incentive to get to a higher level.

[God's Debris]

I bought this game about a month and a half ago and have been playing it non-stop whenever I get the chance. I found that the game starts to get tedious during the 20-30 levels, unfortunately. But after you hit the 30s and are close to recieving a mount all while unlocking horribly more powerful skills and talents through your talent tree, the game picks back up again. I can't wait until I can make myself some Truefaith Vestments and pick up the Benediction staff. I will definately be one sexy undead manbeast with those.

Oh yeah, you can't forget about those Night Elf babes either. They're all ...babe-ish and stuff. :D

[Raziellink]

Oh yeah, you can't forget about those Night Elf babes either. They're all ...babe-ish and stuff. :D

Got that straight!

[versus]

Oh yeah, you can't forget about those Night Elf babes either. They're all ...babe-ish and stuff. :D

Got that straight!

You are the kind of players I make the most fun of, the 12 year old - famale night elf playing ones.. I am glad the horde are ugly hardecore G's, so we don't get the shitty pvpers on our side.

[Raziellink]

Oh yeah, you can't forget about those Night Elf babes either. They're all ...babe-ish and stuff. :D

Got that straight!

You are the kind of players I make the most fun of, the 12 year old - famale night elf playing ones.. I am glad the horde are ugly hardecore G's, so we don't get the shitty pvpers on our side.

To be honest, i don't own a Night Elf, because i'm strictly Horde. And uhm, learn to spell, would ya? Thanks..

[bladiator]

Oh yeah, you can't forget about those Night Elf babes either. They're all ...babe-ish and stuff. :D

Got that straight!

You are the kind of players I make the most fun of, the 12 year old - famale night elf playing ones.. I am glad the horde are ugly hardecore G's, so we don't get the shitty pvpers on our side.

Yay for generalizations!

[Joshea]

Eh, WoW gets boring at the end. Specially if your a rogue.. theres liek 40k of you out there, people dont like rogues =(. but it can be fun if your in a good guild. i still play it a few hours a week, just not as much as i did long ago

[SleazyC]

Eh, WoW gets boring at the end. Specially if your a rogue.. theres liek 40k of you out there, people dont like rogues =(. but it can be fun if your in a good guild. i still play it a few hours a week, just not as much as i did long ago
Yea it does get boring as their is not much to do especially if you are in a raiding guild. Practically all I log on for now is when we raid Molten Core, Onyxia or any of the outdoor raid bosses. I hope that the new Arathi Basin is fun as WSG has got stale.

[Gamelore]

End game EQ1 (pre Luclin) was loads of fun, especially with guilds. There were tons of fun raid zones and difficult mobs to bring down, plus arenas on non PvP servers for people to do whatever. My old guild used to set up all sorts of tournaments with each other by class type (tanks, melee, casters, healers) or do something stupid like getting totally shitfaced and running from one city to another on foot. Whenever we got bored with that we'd just gather up and find a spot to go.

One of our favorite places to go was the Tower of Frozen Shadow, a seven story tower with an extremly mean vampire at the very top and some interesting shit along the way including an undead wedding and library. Some of the best times are getting to like the fourth level and realizing someone left a key behind or watching a guildie fall into a pit of doom for the 8th time. I do have to say a lot of the fun in MMORPG's is what you and your friends make of it. Boy did we have fun.

Holy crap, I think I find myself agreeing with Beatdown.

Take those 2 months or so in EQ between level 50 and the planes opening up. You could not imagine all the crazy stuff I did to entertain myself because the engine let me.

It's all about what you are capable of coming up with, not what is spoonfed to you by the devs. That's another thing I dislike about WoW. Whenever something new comes out in a patch, they tell you what you have to do IN GREAT DETAIL rather than let you have at it.

I like to use my brain to come up with my own solution, but I find WoW too restrictive for my style (too well-tested, contrived, constricive). It's subtle, and most people don't know any better anyway, so they don't care.

[eppy]

Yeh it does get boring after a while, but at the beginning it's really addicting. I just started playing again and I'm hooked damnit..but I don't care 2 much since I'm not paying for it. Can't wait for Battle Grounds though 8)

[Joshea]

Eh, WoW gets boring at the end. Specially if your a rogue.. theres liek 40k of you out there, people dont like rogues =(. but it can be fun if your in a good guild. i still play it a few hours a week, just not as much as i did long ago
Yea it does get boring as their is not much to do especially if you are in a raiding guild. Practically all I log on for now is when we raid Molten Core, Onyxia or any of the outdoor raid bosses. I hope that the new Arathi Basin is fun as WSG has got stale.

Yeah but MC can only be fun for like the first few times.. then its like " wow, 6 hours staring at a bunch of rocks and lava" heh. sleazy what do you play and on which server?

[zircon]

Eh, I find MC to be fun. It's still challenging for my guild so we wipe a lot of times if we don't have our shit together. It's not farm status. Running 5man instances like Scholo or Strat is often challenging as well, and I certainly have a lot of fun in Warsong and AV (I'm playing my 5th guild CTF game right now).

As far as I know, BWL isn't "cracked" yet - even the best guilds are still trying to figure out how to do it. Bliz is very good about adding new, fun content.

[Joshea]

Eh, I find MC to be fun. It's still challenging for my guild so we wipe a lot of times if we don't have our shit together. It's not farm status. Running 5man instances like Scholo or Strat is often challenging as well, and I certainly have a lot of fun in Warsong and AV (I'm playing my 5th guild CTF game right now).

As far as I know, BWL isn't "cracked" yet - even the best guilds are still trying to figure out how to do it. Bliz is very good about adding new, fun content.

Yeah MC was fun til i seen the same bosses drop.. still trying to get rag though. Our guys fire Resist isnt high enough imo. idk about your server but Alliance on sargeras Refuses to work together most of the time in AV so we usually lose, but when we TO group we own it badly, then of course the horde claims exploits lol. and horde never play CTF with us on WSG these days, we're good at that too. heh yeah smaller high end groups are fun tho. 15man UBRS is just overkill i think. my guild usually does it with 10 if we have the right classes on. alot of fun. For the most part WoW is alot of fun, but ive been playing since release, so some of its a bit old. But Zul Gurub will be extremely hot. oh man i wish i could find the link with its loot.. hawt

[Shattered]

I quit Warcraft at one point... Then my GF got me to play it again. Now I have a level 60 and I couldn't be more bored even if the game was done in black and white.

I can't do anything in this game. I can't randomly go around shouting profanties because alot of people are community "watch dogs". I can't use creative ways to skip parts of a dungeon. I can't even kill people at random either... Including people on the same team.

On a positive side, the game is fairly easy to pick up and play. Proffesions can keep you occupied as you try to get that "cool" item.

Wow that was long.

[Airwalker]

Yeah, I hit level 60, and then comes the dreaded question that plagues MMORPG's... "Now what?"

My guild is great, so for them, I still play it once and a while, like on Friday or Saturday when I don't have any plans and feel like sitting in my armchair for some instances. I don't want to go at those things too quickly, otherwise they could get really boring quickly as I have heard many people say. But that's what keeps me playing--a good group of friends.

[Beatdown]

Whenever something new comes out in a patch, they tell you what you have to do IN GREAT DETAIL rather than let you have at it.

Oh I fucking hate that about most MMO's these days. They throw out some great adventure then either tell you in the updates where to go/what to do or post a big ol guide on their website/forums like a day later. That's one of the things I love the most about Everquest, 90% of everything in the game is discovered and circulated strictly by players. When they add new content they just give you some lore, tell you a general direction and say "go". Even when you see guides or walkthroughs, they're either posted by players or paraphrased from people or guilds who know these things through experience.

[zircon]

Again, when Blackwing Lair was released, no info was given about it. People are still trying to figure it out, and apparently having a lot of fun doing so. It's like Molten Core was.

The thing is, you have people like Gamelor bitching that it's too "well-tested". Then, when bugs come out, or difficulty problems arise (eg. the best guilds can't even get a boss down to 99% after trying for weeks), people bitch. Blizzard can't win.

[SleazyC]

Yeah but MC can only be fun for like the first few times.. then its like " wow, 6 hours staring at a bunch of rocks and lava" heh. sleazy what do you play and on which server?
I play on Earthen Ring! Carebear for the win! (Friends picked this one and I came after them so meh -- Do have some alts on PVP servers though)

[CapnHulk]

Running the same instances over and over just so I can look like everyone else in the game got boring 6 months ago. A whole year now, and what's been added? An absolutely retarded "honor" system, a couple of instances(Yes! Replace the monotony of running old instances with new ones!) very few new items, and Battlegrounds. How's that CTF going? Still as fun and refreshing as it was months ago? How's the lag these days? If it was horrible 6 months ago, I can only see it being worse now. Certain classes still need MAJOR overhauls(The Paladin comes to mind. Talk about the most boring waste of time ever in a video game). Hunters are just NOW being addressed, and this isn't even until the NEXT patch. How long until that comes out? 2 maybe 3 months? Oh god, I almost forgot. CHAT BUBBLES. Thanks, Blizzard.

I left WoW wholly unsatisfied.

[zircon]

No point in trying to address most of your points, since it all boils down to what each person finds fun. Some people LIKE playing a support class (Paladin), for example.

One thing I will say, is that I've never had any problems with lag ever.

[SleazyC]

Running the same instances over and over just so I can look like everyone else in the game got boring 6 months ago.
Yes the whole instance grind is very repetative and does get very boring after a couple weeks of doing it. The 40-man instances are great in the beginning. The change in difficulty from running 5-15 man instances to 40 man instances is a big leap.

Certain classes still need MAJOR overhauls(The Paladin comes to mind. Talk about the most boring waste of time ever in a video game). Hunters are just NOW being addressed, and this isn't even until the NEXT patch. How long until that comes out?
As far as class overhauls, I really don't think Hunters needed one. I don't play a hunter but I know plenty of them and when a hunter can place in our top 10 on our damage charts in Molten Core and PVP very effectivly doesn't need a huge overhaul. The hunters I spoke to about the changes said they were welcome but not necessarily neeeded. Paladins are finally getting some love in a ranged execute attack next patch but aside from that they are exactly what they are supposed to be. They aren't DPS machines, they arent healing bots they are a hybrid class.

How's that CTF going? Still as fun and refreshing as it was months ago?
Battlegrounds is a mixed bag for me. On my server its almost a 2:1 Alliance to Horde ratio so Alterac is only up when it is planned out by both sides on the forums. Warsong Gulch has been dominated by Alliance pre-made teams so once in every three games you are looking to get steamrolled by an Alliance pre-made.

How's the lag these days? If it was horrible 6 months ago, I can only see it being worse now.
Lag all depends on what server you are on. Mine is a medium-sized so the lag isn't that bad but I play on a couple PVP servers and on peak hours the lag is horrible.

[Joshea]

Yeah but MC can only be fun for like the first few times.. then its like " wow, 6 hours staring at a bunch of rocks and lava" heh. sleazy what do you play and on which server?
I play on Earthen Ring! Carebear for the win! (Friends picked this one and I came after them so meh -- Do have some alts on PVP servers though)


haha nice, i play alliance on Sargeras, which seems to be the Realm Forgotten by blizz. We have more crashes, more lag spikes, and more bugs then any other server. We used to be one of the biggest PvP server intill people started leaving =(. now its just Med, insted of High. which least i dont gotta wait to get in anymore heh. im in the guild Facial Paralysis www.fpgamer.com if ya wanna look us up

[suzumebachi]

Ok...so the game's been out for what, a year now? My brother bought the game a long time ago, but never played it because he didn't want to pay the monthly fee. About 3 weeks ago it was a crappy day and I had nothing to do for a few hours before going out to the bar. So I decided to install and use the 10 day trial...Needless to say, I was hooked.

The game is amazing and I wish that my computer was new enough so that I could enjoy the game's graphics at its best. However, besides the dungeons, the game seems to turn into little more than "Kill X amount of Y creatures" or "Collect X amount of Y materials" and return for a reward. There seems to be very little horde/alliance interaction. The proffessions often seem pointless as well as you can often find or loot items that are better than what you can create (with the exception of maybe alchemy). Despite this, I still love it and find myself wasting lots of my time playing WOW.

I was just curious to hear thoughts from those who have been playing WOW (or any MMORPG) for a couple months. What's it like at those upper levels when there isn't much left to do?

the reason there's no horde/alliance interaction is you're not playing on a PvP server. I play as horde on smolderthorn (PvP) and there's CONSTANT interaction. especially once you reach around level 20 and start going into contested and even enemy territories. sometimes it gets to be a pain, as if you want to level in certain areas (like hillsbrad, which is always full of alliance jerks on my server) you'll need some higher level backup. or at least you'll need to travel in numbers for safety. but nothing's gonna save your ass from a pack of 15 level 60s on their mounts chasing you through heavy mob territory. it can be fun though. i made scout in 1 day just from helping defend tarren mill from the alliance... dear god though, alliance's organizational skills suck. for example, they have maybe 20 guys, all level 55+, raiding tarren mill... of course they don't all attack at the same time. that would make sense. instead they come in waves of 2 or 3 at a time, making them easy to pick off, even for the lowbies in the area. some shaman will just start stomping totems, and all the gaurds and lowbies will rush to the area and start pounding them, leaving them no chance for escape. out of maybe 15 raid attempts in one night, they managed to kill the bat handler 1 time, which is on the very outskirts of town anyways.

and.. i digress.

anyways, WoW is great fun. if you want real interactivity, play on a PvP server.

if anyone wants to play with me, look for Chuckster (Tauren Hunter) on Smolderthorn.

also, you can start doing BGs at level 21. warsong is hella fun.

after reading some of the comments above about BG: you know, it must be a server thing, because there's always enough people to play AV and WSG on my server. and it's low population. horde win 7 out of 10 times though. shamans = teh win. except.. (here goes another rant) those damn night elf rogues are EVIL. i mean, a dwarf or gnome sneaks up behind me, i just stomp and they're boned. but the damn night elves you can't even see until they've already freaking stabbed you. and then you're at half health. and then they gouge you and run away. argh so frustrating. but it's all good. i have my war stomp, they have their shadowcrud.

..war stomp is a really awesome innate ability. it's saved my ass on more than a few occassions, and makes dueling ten times more fun. most hunters suck at duels, but i think i've got it down. the trick is to keep the enemy immobile or slow. this may not matter so much against warlocks or mages, but against warriors, shamans, rogues, etc, they're screwed.

god damnit i'm ranting like mad here.. but anyways..

a quick guide to dueling with a hunter: you should start off by laying a trap if you can, probably either freeze or immolation. then hit them with a sting right away. sic your pet on them, run in, wing clip, run past them, turn around, concuss them, shoot them a few times, wash, rinse, repeat. if you do it right, they should never even get close enough to attack you until you run in to wing clip them again.

..i need to stop typing.

[Space Lion]

Ok...so the game's been out for what, a year now? My brother bought the game a long time ago, but never played it because he didn't want to pay the monthly fee. About 3 weeks ago it was a crappy day and I had nothing to do for a few hours before going out to the bar. So I decided to install and use the 10 day trial...Needless to say, I was hooked.

The game is amazing and I wish that my computer was new enough so that I could enjoy the game's graphics at its best. However, besides the dungeons, the game seems to turn into little more than "Kill X amount of Y creatures" or "Collect X amount of Y materials" and return for a reward. There seems to be very little horde/alliance interaction. The proffessions often seem pointless as well as you can often find or loot items that are better than what you can create (with the exception of maybe alchemy). Despite this, I still love it and find myself wasting lots of my time playing WOW.

I was just curious to hear thoughts from those who have been playing WOW (or any MMORPG) for a couple months. What's it like at those upper levels when there isn't much left to do?
I've been playing since November and... well, it's the primary reason I haven't been posting much (not that I ever did).

I'm still hooked on the game, and it's gotten even better since I hit level 60 and joined a good guild. We raid often and have several server-first kills (including Ragnaros). We have Molten Core, Onyxia, and Azuregos and Kazzak on farm status, and we're making good progress through Blackwing Lair.

Really, I can't say that I get bored with the game, even when we're not raiding. I play on a PvE server, but we still have a fair amount of PvP activity with Battlegrounds and random city raids. I also will go back to the 5-man instances sometimes (Stratholme is still my favorite) to complete quests I missed or to get supplies/items that I need.

And yes, Alchemy is definitely a good profession. I'm an alchemist/herbalist myself, and I like being able to make potions for nearly every situation the game throws at me. The transmute part of alchemy is also very useful, especially if you want to help with making weapons (arcanite, for example) or get essences for enchantments.

If you find yourself getting bored as you get near 60, then I suggest getting into a good guild, or starting your own. Your skill (and professions) will be put to better use when you have to team up with others more often, in a raid or otherwise.

[Poiso]

MMO thread, obligatory:

All your games suck.

www.eve-online.com

[CapnHulk]

MMO thread, obligatory:

All your games suck.

www.eve-online.com

http://www.gamespot.com/promos/eveonline/

14-day free trial. I've been playing it for about a week and I'm fairly impressed. A little too slow paced for my tastes, but I love the idea of it.

[mecca]

World of Warcraft, you're the greatest game, the best game I've ever played (ftp://ftp.playerofgames.com/pub/movies/Pure_Pwnage/Pure_Pwnage_106.avi)

[Effector]

MMO thread, obligatory:

All your games suck.

www.eve-online.com

http://www.gamespot.com/promos/eveonline/

14-day free trial. I've been playing it for about a week and I'm fairly impressed. A little too slow paced for my tastes, but I love the idea of it.

My obligitory Eve Online link: http://static.circa1984.com/the-big-scam.html

[Soujiro Seta]

I've played both WoW and GW and I like them both a ton. I'm not on WoW anymore now but I still play GW for obvious reasons [hint: money]. At high levels I usually travel back to the "n00b areas" and help lower level characters, I like doing it and so do the people I hlpe, it's a win-win situation. ^^

[Poiso]

MMO thread, obligatory:

All your games suck.

www.eve-online.com

http://www.gamespot.com/promos/eveonline/

14-day free trial. I've been playing it for about a week and I'm fairly impressed. A little too slow paced for my tastes, but I love the idea of it.

Gee, you can get those automatically? I can send out unlimited 14-day trials too.

[Gamelore]

MMO thread, obligatory:

All your games suck.

www.eve-online.com

http://www.gamespot.com/promos/eveonline/

14-day free trial. I've been playing it for about a week and I'm fairly impressed. A little too slow paced for my tastes, but I love the idea of it.

Eve - one of the only MMORPGs I haven't played. Just haven't had time. But coincidentally, a friend of mine has been bugging me to do the free trial with him. Going to try it tonight :)

[Poiso]

MMO thread, obligatory:

All your games suck.

www.eve-online.com

http://www.gamespot.com/promos/eveonline/

14-day free trial. I've been playing it for about a week and I'm fairly impressed. A little too slow paced for my tastes, but I love the idea of it.

Eve - one of the only MMORPGs I haven't played. Just haven't had time. But coincidentally, a friend of mine has been bugging me to do the free trial with him. Going to try it tonight :)

You definetly should. (In my opinion) it's miles above everything else of the sort.

[The Dennis]

WoW is miserable at endgame, I'm sorry to say. If there was anything resembling a balanced PvP system, or an honor system that... you know, rewards honor... maybe the game would be slightly more impressive.

Try to tell the following to someone that's never played the game:

"Imagine capture the flag, two teams. The two teams are essentially the same, except for one class on either side. The 'badguy' class can slow down every 'goodguy' in the area by half. The 'goodguy' class... doesn't even have ranged attacks."

What a joke. Great capture the flag, real fair.

The PvP 'Honor' system? FORTY level 60s can beat up a level 48, and they all get honor points. Not a lot, mind you... however, there's simply nothing honorable about that. They all should have lost a fuckin' rank. And then Blizzard holds a competition, too see which two people on each server can accumulate the most honor, getting a free video card. Out of 100-some-odd servers (200+ top-rankers)... no paladins won.

It took Blizzard another month or so to get the hint. Sweeeeeeeeet.

I don't even PLAY a paladin and it pisses me off. The newest patch they're releasing just furthers the gap of imbalance. I'd bother to write more, but I just don't care. I'd love to stick around until they release hero classes, but at this rate, it'd probably be more effective to just play a shaman.

-Dennis-

[zircon]

Actually in the newest patch they're ADDING a Paladin ability. But that's besides the point. The Paladin is the most defensive, support-oriented class there is. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The best 1v1 player on my server is a Paladin, and they're the best combat healers on the field (just TRY playing a Priest in group pvp, you're the #1 target of everyone). Shamans do rock pretty hard in PVP, but their totems die in one hit, and they CAN be killed. If you just DPS them they die like any other class. More importantly, they rely on mana to win.

Shamans actually have pretty low DPS if they melee, even with windfury - they suck at farming for a reason. Ever see a Shaman solo a mob? It's pathetic. They either take forever to kill something, or they kill it quick but blow most of their mana. Sure, they're powerful, but they have their weaknesses.

[Beatdown]

I don't understand why a paladin not winning would be a big deal.

[zircon]

I don't either. Too many people see Paladins as Warriors with healing spells, when the class is more like healers with some Warrior aspects. They don't tank, they don't taunt, their gear has healing bonuses on it, and their skills are almost entirely defense/support oriented. They're not Warriors!

[The Dennis]

Actually in the newest patch they're ADDING a Paladin ability. But that's besides the point. The Paladin is the most defensive, support-oriented class there is. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The best 1v1 player on my server is a Paladin, and they're the best combat healers on the field (just TRY playing a Priest in group pvp, you're the #1 target of everyone). Shamans do rock pretty hard in PVP, but their totems die in one hit, and they CAN be killed. If you just DPS them they die like any other class. More importantly, they rely on mana to win.

Shamans actually have pretty low DPS if they melee, even with windfury - they suck at farming for a reason. Ever see a Shaman solo a mob? It's pathetic. They either take forever to kill something, or they kill it quick but blow most of their mana. Sure, they're powerful, but they have their weaknesses.

Shamans sure do have their weaknesses, fortunately :)

My argument against the state of the paladin is that their class doesn't REALLY have a formal role to adhere to, at all. Sure, they're a 'hybrid' class, but specializing to do either damage or healing doesn't make a large difference toward either side. I've never, ever seen a paladin in the top 5 DPS for any instance group I've ever been in, and they're usually sitting near the bottom of the 'top 10' list for healing power in any instance. The end-talent for their holy (healing) tree is a DAMAGE skill. The end-talent for their retribution (damage) tree is a BUFF. The end-talent for their protection (tanking) tree neither helps hold agro nor reduce damage done to themself. Then again, that doesn't matter, because paladins can't hold agro well enough to tank in an instance anyways, so that makes just about the whole tree a waste. You seen their epic sets? As of now, Judgment is a joke. Both sets are geared toward healing, so I guess that means in PvE, they REALLY want paladins to be healers. That's understandable... why make them pale in comparison to other healers, then?

And you're saying this new 'hammer of wrath' skill is an acceptable answer to a broken class? For the damage it does, it's mana-inefficient. Sure, it's supposed to be used near the end of a battle, because it can only be used when the target is at 20% health or below. It doesn't do enough damage to kill someone in PvP, nine times out of ten. It's supposed to 'catch runners', but it has a cast timer on it, which means you have to HOLD STILL and NOT chase your enemy in order to cast it. It also neither has a chance to slow down or stun your opponent, which really doesn't make it good at helping to 'catch' anything. You're still left with the problem of the rogue darting away, the mage blinking away, the priest fearing you and running, the warlock fearing you and running, the warrior hamstringing you and running, the hunter wing-clipping you and running, the shaman totemming you and running, the druid darting away shapeshifting or rooting you and running. And even if you HAD the time, the luck, and the opening for another holy wrath to 'finish the job'... well, it's on a six-second cooldown. You'd better hope your opponent doesn't wise up in those six seconds.

I'm willing to bet Blizzard will see their damn 'hammer of wrath' as a valid fix to the class as a whole, and will ignore them for another eight months.

I don't understand why a paladin not winning would be a big deal.

Are you trying to tell me that out of all the paladins in World of Warcraft, none of them were skillful enough to win the competition? Please. The problem doesn't lie in the players. Even PRIESTS can specialize to do damage, if they need to.

-Dennis-

[The Dennis]

I don't either. Too many people see Paladins as Warriors with healing spells, when the class is more like healers with some Warrior aspects. They don't tank, they don't taunt, their gear has healing bonuses on it, and their skills are almost entirely defense/support oriented. They're not Warriors!

Okay, go to the new character screen and read Blizzard's description of a paladin. Then come back here and tell me that again. I'm even sure they use the word 'warrior' itself to describe them.

-Dennis-

[Beatdown]

I don't understand why a paladin not winning would be a big deal.

Are you trying to tell me that out of all the paladins in World of Warcraft, none of them were skillful enough to win the competition? Please. The problem doesn't lie in the players. Even PRIESTS can specialize to do damage, if they need to.

-Dennis-

It wasn't a contest of skill, it was a contest of time played. Who had the most points over a set period of time. Obviously paladins weren't the most played characters. That argument sounds a whole lot like "THAT VIDEO GAME AWARD SHOW DIDN'T MENTION CHRONO TRIGGAR!!!" to me.

[zircon]

To be fair, Blizzard doesn't necessarily describe their own classes well.

I see Paladin's role as a combat healer and support class. Believe it or not, a Paladin with lots of +healing and the proper spec is actually MORE mana efficient than a Priest, Shaman, or Druid. This means that in MC, they can basically go on healing forever, and MC is all about endurance fights. Their support abilities are of course unmatched; that +stat buff, aggro reducer, fire resistances, and mana regeneration all beat out any buffs from Shamans, the Horde equivalent of a support class in PvE. I haven't played enough on Alliance to know what Paladins are like in non-MC instances, but I'd imagine that they play a similar role as Shamans (who actually DON'T do much DPS there).

In PvP I see Paladins as nearly unstoppable. When I see one, I don't even bother fighting them. You have to sink so much time and mana into reducing their health that it's not worth it. Plus, the 5minute cooldown on Divine Shield makes it so that whenever a major conflict happens, they'll probably be ready to use it. In GROUP pvp, the shield plus their plate armor, heals, and buffs makes them a nightmare to kill. Three paladins assisting a Druid flag runner is practically impenetrable, because even if you have multiple people attacking them, they can still shrug them off pretty easily, unlike Priests or Druids. And believe it or not, a Paladin with an Obsidian Edged Blade, Quel`Serrar, or Unstoppable Force hurts cloth wearers pretty hard. What am I supposed to do when I see a Paladin attacking me? Fear him? They trinket out. DoT him? They Cleanse that. Mindblast him? Even if I blew my entire mana bar they would still easily outlast me considering the mana-efficiency of their heals.

[Beatdown]

I had started a paladin once with Everquest in mind, thinking I was gonna be a sub-tank with decent damage dealing ability and a few heals. I turned out to be a cleric with a sword :(

I think I'm gonna start a new character now.

[PhantomSky]

was taken from here http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin.html

Weaknesses:
Doesn't have as many combat options and strengths as the Warrior

Cannot equip as many weapon types as the Warrior

Very gear dependant class

Challenges:
* Learning the proper Blessings and aura type for each battle
* Remembering to use Blessings on everyone as needed
* Mastering healing techniques

Class Role
Paladins are the consummate knights in shining armor, meant to be in the thick of things. Their defensive abilities allow them to stand toe to toe with monsters and take a beating - they are tanks overall. This is not the sole purpose of a Paladin, of course; their auras, seals, heals and resurrection spells give them the chance to act as a support healer.


Sounds more like a support class to me.

[The Dennis]

It wasn't a contest of skill, it was a contest of time played. Who had the most points over a set period of time. Obviously paladins weren't the most played characters. That argument sounds a whole lot like "THAT VIDEO GAME AWARD SHOW DIDN'T MENTION CHRONO TRIGGAR!!!" to me.

Zerging 24/7 isn't gonna win you a competition if you can't get kills. Sure, the people that win played the most. Once again, you're trying to tell me that no paladins played as much as the people up there? That's hard to believe, at best. Even if you're right, don't you think there's a reason they don't play so much? Perhaps the problem is 'not enough kills in the time alloted'. They're pretty slow killers with no burst damage.

To be fair, Blizzard doesn't necessarily describe their own classes well.

That's an awfully cheap copout. People are playing characters to 60 under false ambitions. It SAYS their job is to be warriors with secondary healing abilities. Their talent trees say they can either be really good at dealing damage, tanking, OR healing, depending on their specialization. The TRUTH is, they can't deal damage fast (no, Hammer of Wrath will not change that significantly), they absolutely cannot tank at endgame, and their heals, while they can be GOOD if you're specced correctly and have all the right gear, are not GREAT. They can outlast the other healers in terms of mana, but that means nothing in Blackwing Lair and is only useful in MC under certain circumstances. The healers in my guild heal in shifts, so the need to outlast manawise is nonexistant. We use the paladins for their buffs, Purify, and the occasional heal or two for someone stepping in the wrong place at the wrong time. Being more mana-efficient doesn't make them better healers than priests or druids, or even 'as good'. They're simply second-rate. I have to admit, the paladin in our guild with 7/8 Lawbringer pieces brings a lot to the table, but he's only even coming close to healing capabilities of the healers. If you need a full epic set to 'do your job' as well as others can naturally do, there's something wrong.

I see Paladin's role as a combat healer and support class.

Fair observation. The problem is, Blizzard has said on more than one occasion that no class will be restricted to being a 'support class'. That's the case with paladins, however (and druids as well). Even as a support class, though, paladins are second rate at everything they do besides 'outlasting'. Add to that that their talent trees don't make sense, much of each talent tree is useless, and many of their trained skills are useless, and you have a broken class.

-Dennis-

[The Dennis]

was taken from here http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin.html

Weaknesses:
Doesn't have as many combat options and strengths as the Warrior


Understatement. Their basic combat consists of pressing a button and hoping it does something for the next 30 seconds, and then pressing the button again. Maybe throw in a heal from time to time.

And, once again, you're right. They're built as a 'support' class. But Blizzard promised nobody would be a support class, and each class would be superior in their own right. Lies.

-Dennis-

[zircon]

You do have a point there. But I have faith that Bliz will eventually 'fix' up the talent trees. They've been slowly but surely addressing this stuff, and no class has a CRIPPLING disability (unlike DAoC where at one point, Blademasters were absolutely useless in every department, and Berserkers were total gods). I'm guessing patch 1.8 or so will bring some additional Paladin changes - I know this coming one has some Druid changes that make the Cat form significantly more viable for DPS.

[Beatdown]

It wasn't a contest of skill, it was a contest of time played. Who had the most points over a set period of time. Obviously paladins weren't the most played characters. That argument sounds a whole lot like "THAT VIDEO GAME AWARD SHOW DIDN'T MENTION CHRONO TRIGGAR!!!" to me.

Zerging 24/7 isn't gonna win you a competition if you can't get kills. Sure, the people that win played the most. Once again, you're trying to tell me that no paladins played as much as the people up there? That's hard to believe, at best. Even if you're right, don't you think there's a reason they don't play so much? Perhaps the problem is 'not enough kills in the time alloted'. They're pretty slow killers with no burst damage.

Slow, yet consistantly effective. Paladins weren't built to run around killing things you know. Versus classes that are actually built to do damage, I don't see how a paladin could've won that contest with the amount of competetion from other classes.

[[deltree]]

I don't understand why a paladin not winning would be a big deal.

Are you trying to tell me that out of all the paladins in World of Warcraft, none of them were skillful enough to win the competition? Please. The problem doesn't lie in the players. Even PRIESTS can specialize to do damage, if they need to.

-Dennis-

It wasn't a contest of skill, it was a contest of time played. Who had the most points over a set period of time. Obviously paladins weren't the most played characters. That argument sounds a whole lot like "THAT VIDEO GAME AWARD SHOW DIDN'T MENTION CHRONO TRIGGAR!!!" to me.

And "PMG!! MY GUY CNA'T KILL PLAYRZ IN ONE HIT!!!"

Don't even whine about paladins getting the shaft. It gets so freakin old. If you don't like it play another class.

[suzumebachi]

i don't think paladins are as weak as you say they are. agreed they can't dish out the damage like a warrior, but they aren't meant to. instead, they're a bitch to kill. way, way harder than a warrior.

i think hunters are worse off in PvP than paladins anyways. we're stuck with shit armor, our pets are absolutely useless in pvp, traps are pointless, our DPS is shit, and we run out of mana in under 20 seconds.

i just made level 30.. and what skill do i get? wow, i can pretend to be dead. that's really fucking cool. for about 3 seconds.

[zircon]

suzume; just wait until you're higher level. Hunters get to own very hard, particularly in PVP. In PvE with the right weapon they can outdamage even Rogues.

[Solid Krono]

So what exactly does this hammer of wrath do? Sounds like it wont really change anything for the pally but I'd still like to know :)

[Airwalker]

So what exactly does this hammer of wrath do? Sounds like it wont really change anything for the pally but I'd still like to know :)

It's a finishing move. Only after the opponent is at 20% health, you have a nuke, 6 second timer, 30 yard range, that does 560 damage for about 500 mana. It was meant to stop runners which palles are plagued with. I.E., mages blinking out of the pally's stun last minute to run away--pallies having no range once-so-ever.

The best way to counter is to keep your health up. If it's a neck-at-neck battle, keep your health above 20% with a potion or a heal, and you'll be fine.

[crimsonzeal]

i think hunters are worse off in PvP than paladins anyways.

...huh? Are we playing the same game here? Hunters are the KINGS of group PvP.

we're stuck with shit armor

You get mail at level 40, which is the second best armor type in the game.

our pets are absolutely useless in pvp

Not really, but especially after the patch. Get a DPS pet (cat, raptor) and let er rip. Any class that can stop the pet with a skill will, but that's time spent not attacking you that you can use to damage them from afar.

After patch, with the right talents, you can heal your pet's status with mend pet, thereby having your pet act as another source of DPS.

traps are pointless

Frost and Freeze traps both have their uses in PvP, and they can be laid down every 30 seconds when using Feign Death.

our DPS is shit

Hunters are normally the 3rd in damage meters, under rogues and mages.

i just made level 30.. and what skill do i get? wow, i can pretend to be dead. that's really fucking cool. for about 3 seconds.

You don't realize the value of a skill that takes you out of combat and makes you appear dead to your enemies? In complete seriousness, Feign Death is one of my most favored hunter skills.

[Bren]

Question about hunters. I just started one and so far he's level 16. I have a pet cat, and the only skill he knows is growl. Do they learn any other skills later on? Im asking this, because Ive seen hunter's pets in groups go down to almost no focus, so they gotta be using some kind of skill.

[Rodin]

Question about hunters. I just started one and so far he's level 16. I have a pet cat, and the only skill he knows is growl. Do they learn any other skills later on? Im asking this, because Ive seen hunter's pets in groups go down to almost no focus, so they gotta be using some kind of skill.

Go to one of the many WoW info sites and look up pet skills. To get new pet skills you have to tame a beast with the skill you want. Once you've got a pet with the skill, have your pet use the skill that you want - after a few uses, you should learn the skill. Then, abandon the pet and take your old pet out of the stable and train it up.

[Typhun]

I have been playing since Phase 2 of beta. I have played 3 rogues to 60 now, and just recently rolled a NE Warrior on one of the brand new servers. I have a new love, my rogue means nothing to me now. I can't wait to start MC/Ony/BWL with this warrior.

[suzumebachi]

i think i feel most sorry for warlocks though.. they're mostly based around their summons, but against a priest or another warlock, they're screwed in no-time flat. and debuffs are pretty much useless anymore.

also: what the hell do people mean when they "roll" a character.. as far as i know you make your character yourself.

[Rodin]

i think i feel most sorry for warlocks though.. they're mostly based around their summons, but against a priest or another warlock, they're screwed in no-time flat. and debuffs are pretty much useless anymore.

also: what the hell do people mean when they "roll" a character.. as far as i know you make your character yourself.

It's just a standard RPG term, originally used for D&D. In WoW there is no actual "rolling" since your stats are pre-set, but the term remains.

[gannon]

i just made level 30.. and what skill do i get? wow, i can pretend to be dead. that's really fucking cool. for about 3 seconds.

it was mentioned earlier, but feign death is a critically useful spell for hunters...even though it won't actually fool anyone (unless the other player is a retard), it drops aggro in pve (my guild is currently working on the vael encounter in bwl, and staying low on the hate list makes our hunters very happy), and allows hunters to drop from combat and lay traps in pvp. toss in the utility you get from it while pulling in the core, and feign is really one of your more frequently used abilities

[zircon]

Warlocks are one of the most underplayed class, and it's partially due to their design. In MC, they serve as constant damage dealers with their Shadowbolt spells, and their Curse of Doom, Shadows, and Elements are very useful. However they will never rack up the huge overall damage numbers of Mages, Rogues, or Hunters. In PVP, the Succubus and Curse of Exhaustion spells are pretty nasty, and they have damage curses which are a bit harder to remove than magic or poison.

They're really not a class to be feared.. though they are probably among the most tough and sturdy of any caster because of their massive HP + pet.

[Arcana]

So does anyone have a WoW Trial for me? Do you need like, the actual CD or can I just enter a code and download a client?

I'm thinking of starting up after I submit my thesis, which is in about a month or two.

[Beatdown]

So does anyone have a WoW Trial for me? Do you need like, the actual CD or can I just enter a code and download a client?

I'm thinking of starting up after I submit my thesis, which is in about a month or two.

The trial lasts for like 20 something days, then you have to buy a retail CD key to continue playing.

[ellywu2]

Lets stop kidding ourselves shall we? Hunters at the moment are criminally underpowered in both PvE and PvP. We are supposedly a DPS class, yet our DPS isnt that great. Admittedly we are sustained DPS, we can go for a long time, but in PvP that is hardly useful. Burst DPS is vital to a non healing class in PvP. We need someway to do a lot of damage over a small period of time. At the moment the bog standard cookie cutter hunter build relies on chances to crit, which are criminally lower than rogues because hunters need far more agi to get +1crit.
We are supposedly the pullers, whereas most people think its easier to just pull with the MT so the aggro doesnt need fishing off. PvP is laughable at best, yes hunters can be good in PvP, but you need to be damn good. We have a glaring weakness i.e the deadzone where from between 2-8 yards we can do absolutely nothing. It becomes easy for classes to get in that deadzone, root us and blast the shit out of us.
Dont get me wrong, i love playing my hunter. Its edge of your seat stuff in PvP, not like some other 3hit classes.... I just wish we'd get a buff so we dont have to fight super hard against a mage whos probably using one hand and not taking it seriously.

[mecca]

LFG DM

[gannon]

elly, i can agree that there certianly a lot issues with the hunter class (heck, there are issues with many of the classes), but i think the buff you're asking for is already coming with the talent trees redesigned. the new options should not only improve the cookiecutter builds that most people use, but also allow for some new builds to have some success

[Ninja-san]

EVERQUEST!!!!!!!!!!!

[Terrisare]

...huh? Are we playing the same game here? Hunters are the KINGS of group PvP.

I'd just like to note that this applies solely to group PvP. When stuck either alone in the world or even in a large battle without more than one other group member paying attention to their situation and helping them out, Hunters are pretty much fucked PvP-wise (unless, of course, they get the jump on the enemy and know how to keep that advantage on their side, but that applies to nearly any class). I mean, sure, Hunters can rack up the second-most HKs and CPs or sway that Battlegrounds match more than any other class next to Mages, but seriously, Hunters have very few options for controlling a one-on-one fight successfully, even specced Marks/Survival with Imp. ConcShot/WingClip, Scattershot, and Counterattack.

I'm slightly happy with the new talent trees, but in my opinion they really haven't changed very much. The only real difference is that new Survival talents will make it longer and more tedious to kill Hunters (although most of them won't help the Hunters keep control of a fight and, you know, survive in the long run) and a BM build just might be possible to use in PvP now (although I'm not going to waste a re-spec testing out just how viable that build is).

hunters CAN kite very well, its just a lot harder to do than mages. I (as an enhancement shaman) totally WTFPWN hunters that make minimal efforts to kite, because i just run up and smash them to a pulp. however, with some hunters I only get one or two hits at most, and die a very, very frustrating death. im not saying its easy, but it is most definatley doable

[zircon]

Lets stop kidding ourselves shall we? Hunters at the moment are criminally underpowered in both PvE and PvP. We are supposedly a DPS class, yet our DPS isnt that great. Admittedly we are sustained DPS, we can go for a long time, but in PvP that is hardly useful. Burst DPS is vital to a non healing class in PvP. We need someway to do a lot of damage over a small period of time. At the moment the bog standard cookie cutter hunter build relies on chances to crit, which are criminally lower than rogues because hunters need far more agi to get +1crit.

We are supposedly the pullers, whereas most people think its easier to just pull with the MT so the aggro doesnt need fishing off. PvP is laughable at best, yes hunters can be good in PvP, but you need to be damn good. We have a glaring weakness i.e the deadzone where from between 2-8 yards we can do absolutely nothing. It becomes easy for classes to get in that deadzone, root us and blast the shit out of us.

Dont get me wrong, i love playing my hunter. Its edge of your seat stuff in PvP, not like some other 3hit classes.... I just wish we'd get a buff so we dont have to fight super hard against a mage whos probably using one hand and not taking it seriously.

Well.. Hunters do all the pulling in MC for sure. And Feign Death is very useful for escaping from a bad pull. In places like UBRS we also have hunters setting traps for crowd control, and even earlier than that in places like Maraudon. I wouldn't underestimate them in that regard. Their DPS, as other people have mentioned, is quite good in PVE with the proper gear/skills - in fact, one hunter in my guild is so strong that he actually pulls aggro away from our main tank in MC even AFTER the main tank gains aggro (eg. full sunder armor on a mob) just by doing autoshot. Along with Rogues, having a class that can do lots of damage without having to rely on mana is very useful.

Burst DPS.. well, you have Rapidfire and Arcane Shot, among other things. But the real power of Hunters as I mentioned earlier is that they are great at controlling combat which is what PVP is all about. Traps, pet harassing, concussive shot + wingclip, Viper Sting, Scatter Shot, and some AOE damage to screw over Rogue stealth (and multishot itself can hit pretty hard too).

IMO they are a good class that needs some talent tree treatment, which they are getting a LOT of in 1.7. Warlock is much more of a pointless class.

[Beatdown]

EVERQUEST 2!!!!!!!!!!!

[Beatdown]

See now that was just mean :cry:

[Red Shadow]

For those of you with stylexp. (http://www.themexp.org/preview.php?mid=114679&type=vs&view=date&page=&cat=&name=World+of+Warcraft.zip)

[SILVERWOLF]

WoW turned three of my friends into MMORPG Zombies :(

[Ninja-san]

EVERQUEST 2!!!!!!!!!!!

SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey now everquest is one of the backbones to MMORPGs. Dissin that disses all of them

[zircon]

Guild Wars > WoW

Its not close.

Well, yeah, but that really goes without saying.

Er, maybe for you guys. I bought GW, being a WoW player, and didn't really like the graphical style, combat, or statistic/equipment system. I've been playing WoW for months and it's only getting more fun.

[zircon]

Oh man. My guild just did Onyxia for the first time today - we did it on the third try. One of the most intense and fun fights ever. We had about 8 people alive when we finally took her down.. the celebration was incredible afterwords. Damn, most fun I've had in a game for a LONG time :D

[SleazyC]

Oh man. My guild just did Onyxia for the first time today - we did it on the third try. One of the most intense and fun fights ever. We had about 8 people alive when we finally took her down.. the celebration was incredible afterwords. Damn, most fun I've had in a game for a LONG time :D
That's pretty awesome. It took us 3 days worth of trys (about 15 or so attempts) to finally take the big dragon down.

[Klay]

Oh man. My guild just did Onyxia for the first time today - we did it on the third try. One of the most intense and fun fights ever. We had about 8 people alive when we finally took her down.. the celebration was incredible afterwords. Damn, most fun I've had in a game for a LONG time :D

Just wait till you do Molten Core :D

[zircon]

We've been doing MC and we're up to Majordomo now after about 1.5 months (and a little bit of guild upset). Basically, we breeze through Lucifron, Magmadar, and Gehennas, and no trash mobs give us trouble - hell, we've even taken 2 Molten Destroyers (the big ones) and a Firelord without problems. Garr always takes us a little while to set up but once we do, he's cake. The lava/fire packs are a little harder, and we still wipe on those from time to time, but we're getting better at it - MT fire res helps as well of course. Baron Geddon is probably our hardest fight currently as I'm in a Horde guild and we're understaffed in the way of Priests and Druids. Last attempt we wiped twice (beat him on 3rd) because we only had 5 Shamans, 5 Priests, and 2 Druids. That's not a lot, since the 5 Priests have to be dispelling everyone.

Finally, Shazz, Sulfuron, and Golemagg don't give us much trouble either. Majordomo we ALMOST have.. last shot we had the last add down to like 8000 HP but the healers were completely drained. If I had been there we would have done it for sure.

Onyxia IMO is much harder than anything in MC we've done so far. There is no uncertainty in the MC bosses. Even in fights like Shazz or Geddon, with the right classes you can control their debuffs and keep up the heat. With Onyxia, you have 5 people get feared into lava and die for no reason, or a Warrior get tailwhipped into a room of whelps and pop all the eggs. There are way more variables - but it's a lot more fun than any MC fight so far.

[The Dennis]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but BWL is for the folks that love the boss fights. I've never been in it myself, but I hear that basically every room is a boss fight. Once you beat a boss, the next boss is in the next room. Once my guild is geared up, I can't wait to check the place out. I've read a strat for the Razorgore fight, and it looks pretty damn complicated. If you enjoy the Onyxia fight, or at least find it exciting, then I'm sure BWL is a blast.

-Dennis-

[ellywu2]

You can't jump in Guild Wars.

[zircon]

Dennis; BWL has I think the same amount of bosses as MC. It is, however, significantly harder. No one has beaten it yet, and even the very very very best guilds are still developing strategies for it. So far on my server, the farthest anyone has gotten is killing the first boss, Razorgore.

[gannon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but BWL is for the folks that love the boss fights. I've never been in it myself, but I hear that basically every room is a boss fight. Once you beat a boss, the next boss is in the next room. Once my guild is geared up, I can't wait to check the place out. I've read a strat for the Razorgore fight, and it looks pretty damn complicated. If you enjoy the Onyxia fight, or at least find it exciting, then I'm sure BWL is a blast.

-Dennis-

The first two rooms are both bosses, razergore and a dragon with a really long name that everyone shortens to just: vael. after that there is some clearing before you get to the next boss, broodlord lashlayer, who my guild is currently working on. the clearing is harder than the normal molten core routine, but there isn't as much to clear so it's shorter and less of a grind than mc clearing is.

[suzumebachi]

is BWL 40-man?

also, i wonder what kind of sick ass drops you can get.. like.. LEGENDARY items... of which i've only seen one, ever, in my life, on a warlord on smolderthorn.

[SleazyC]

BWL is a 40 man and so far no Legendary drops have been found there. Everything has been epic but most of those epics are quite a bit superior then MC epics.

I know of two guilds that are currently working on Nefarion. Immortality on Skullcrusher and Fury on Medivh.

[zircon]

Er, Fury got up to Nefarion when the instance was bugged. Are you saying they did it again? Because once they fixed the bugs it got like 50x harder.

[SleazyC]

Hmm, looks like they got to Nefarion July 15th. Site got hit very hard and they had to move to a backup and lost all their new updates so I'm not sure where they are now.

[Blake]

Badass hunter raid on UBRS:
http://files.filefront.com/Hunterpower_2/;4040679;;/fileinfo.html


Truly awesome :D Take a look. By the way, the only real grind to level 60 is somewhere in the 30's. I did 3 instances 4 times each, but I also got a buttload of loot from those instances so it didn't feel much like a grind to me.

[gannon]

my guild is on the same server as fury...from what i understand they got to nef again after bwl was mostly fixed..however i've heard they've been having problems with the new chromaggus(boss before nef) since blizz fixed his breath attack, which had never been working properly before.

[suzumebachi]

there's got to be better ways to level... it feels like i've been level 30 for a week now.

sometimes it seems like all the horde lowbie areas are also higher level areas for alliance. like hillsbrad for example. there's like level 20-25 horde leveling around tarren mill, but 30-35 alliance around southshore area. i mean, there's even an alliance instance (BG entrance i think) right in the middle of a level 25 area that's always got level 55-60 alliance hanging around. and right now i'm in shimmering flats, which is like 30-35, and there's constantly lvl 50+ alliance coming through from gadgetzan and killing all the lowbies.

it's all in good fun of course, but it sure makes questing/grinding a huge pain in the ass.

[Blake]

there's got to be better ways to level... it feels like i've been level 30 for a week now.

sometimes it seems like all the horde lowbie areas are also higher level areas for alliance. like hillsbrad for example. there's like level 20-25 horde leveling around tarren mill, but 30-35 alliance around southshore area. i mean, there's even an alliance instance (BG entrance i think) right in the middle of a level 25 area that's always got level 55-60 alliance hanging around. and right now i'm in shimmering flats, which is like 30-35, and there's constantly lvl 50+ alliance coming through from gadgetzan and killing all the lowbies.

it's all in good fun of course, but it sure makes questing/grinding a huge pain in the ass.


Yeah, it's sort of opposite in kalecgos lol :P Since we're heavily outnumbered by horde. And leveling in Stranglethorn Valley at 30's makes me want to kill myself. For each bloodscalp troll I kill, I get ganked twice. :cry:

[Arcana]

Personally, I think PvE is simply a more sensible server option... I mean, it makes levelling much easier, and yet, minus the enormous amount of ganking, the level of PvP action on most PvE servers is still the same both inside and outside of Battlegrounds. I played PvP for a while and just got tired of it. The PvP action with my 60 Hunter on Shadowsong was much more frequent and fun.

Huh, PvP got tiring, but yet, PvP with your hunter was more frequent and fun?

[gannon]

think he means that the pvp server got tiring...but pvping on a pve server with his hunter was fun.

[U N N]

Woohoo got to 56 today, already about halfway to 57 =D
Can almost join the populair instances that always has a group.

[zircon]

Level 30, suzu? These levels should take no more than 2-4 hours depending on what you're doing. You should be in Thousand Needles levelling up there, moving into the Shimmering Flats area once you gain a few more. Arathi Highlands is the next spot to hit, which should last until mid/upper 30s, at which point Scarlet Monastery (a fun, accessible instance split into four zones) becomes available to you. You can also try Stranglethorn Vale and some Badlands in the high 30s, moving on to Uldaman in the low 40s.

[chocokudos]

a spent a month on 57 :D

[suzumebachi]

i finally got a new guild. Gankstas. we got 140 or so active members, with 30-40 online at any given time. and everyone is level 30+ which is nice.

as a result of my new guild, i got 43 hks last night in a period of about 30 minutes. 6 of us got together in Grom'Gul (all of us at right around lvl 31-32 except for a 51 shaman) and we headed to Redridge. along the way to Redridge we ganked a few lvl 27-33 guys in Duskwood while bypassing Darkshire. So we get to Redridge and head for Lakeshire. We killed the shit out the alliance there until all the gaurds started spawning like mad and the 51 shammy started freaking out because he got a few dks. We didn't get much honor there either since almost everyone was 5-10 levels lower than us. So head back to Duskwood. We go around Darkshire again, and this time we group on the main road. Just as we get together, a band of about 9 alliance ranging from around 27-33 showed up. We killed them all in about 4 seconds flat. Then they brought more friends. And we killed all of them too. Then they brought a 56 rogue, a 49 pally, and a 51 priest. We managed to kill all 3 of them, before we finally got mobbed by the rest of the lowbies. So we skirmish with the higher level guys for a little bit before a few of their 60's show up and we decide to move out. So we head for the river, and along the way we end up in Westfall, which is Alliance territory. We just kind of wandered through Westfall for a while, splitting up to explore the area. So I head for this place called Sentinel Hill. I pass through, with all the lowbies looking at me dumbfounded (I'm a skull to them) until a level 38 night elf hunter comes from nowhere and jumps me. I tore her to pieces. She was 7 levels higher than me, and I beat her 1 on 1 and still had half my life left. So then a few of their mounts show up, and our raid party regroups, and here's where the REAL fun begins. They had a 38 hunter, a 51 priest, a 55 warlock, 50 mage, and a 41 paladin. We had a 31 hunter, 30 mage, 27 warrior, 33 warrior, 32 shaman, 51 shaman, and a 41 priest we picked up along the way. We started fighting pretty much right at the foot of a graveyard, so it never ceased. And we just pounded the hell out of each other for about 20 minutes. Every once in a while another Ally would show up, but we somehow came across a 60 undead rogue and a 55 undead mage who also happened to be in the area, so the fight would just continue. It went on like this for quite a bit. We probably killed each of them 12 times. I probably died 7 or 8 times. Eventually the respawn times were getting so long that it wasn't realistic to continue anymore. And they finally called in their reserves (about 5 more mounts) and that basically ended it. But it was super awesome freaky fun. I could tell they were having a good time too. It's not very often we have straight on fights outside of BG anymore. Usually I just get ganked by some lvl 60 asshole while mining or killing mobs or whatever.

I was getting 50+ honor per kill when fighting those guys. That seems like a lot at level 31. If I continue like that all week, I'll probably gain a rank.

[suzumebachi]

ding 32.

i used to think hunters sucked for PvP... but now that i've had some more experience, i realize that a good hunter can easily sway the battle one way or the other.

hunters can control the actual FLOW of the battle through snares and traps, as well as marking prime targets and tracking the enemies. you get a hunter together with a good shaman, and you're unstoppable. the two of you alone could defend the flag in WSG against anything but a full on zerg.

[mecca]

Fantastic story Suzu..I'm lv28 Alliance rogue atm, hope to start doing PvP around 30 :)

[zircon]

More people need to play on Gorefiend, Horde. It owns.

[Beatdown]

I just started a rogue on Darkspear for giggles. Pickpocket is fun, can you do it to players too?

[CapnHulk]

I just started a rogue on Darkspear for giggles. Pickpocket is fun, can you do it to players too?

No.

I used to play on Darkspear once in a while, and unless it's changed a great deal I'd suggest moving to a different server.

[Beatdown]

I just started a rogue on Darkspear for giggles. Pickpocket is fun, can you do it to players too?

No.

I used to play on Darkspear once in a while, and unless it's changed a great deal I'd suggest moving to a different server.

:cry:

I don't play often enough to really care which server is 1337 anyway. It takes half the time to level in this game than it does in Levelquest 2 so I only have to dedicate half the time. I'm in it to see if the high end PvP is the bag of chips everyone makes it out to be.

[zircon]

Oh man.. I just changed my opinion on rogues after watching "World of Roguecraft". It's an EXTENSIVE pvp video showing a Rogue (or at least a Rogue being played by a Warlock) using nothing but Rogue abilities/talent and bandages, and fighting other level 60s who all have max health. He starts with Shadowcraft, a Krol Blade, and a decent offhand. He then wears all Wildheart, and removes the offhand, as well as downgrades his rings/trinkets. Then, he puts some Shadowcraft on and uses 2 Worn Blades (.9dps). Next, he uses all Wildheart with the 2 Worn Blades. Afterwords, he uses ONE Worn Blade. For the grand finale? He uses NO GEAR AT ALL except ONE WORN BLADE. The whole time he is owning other 60s of different classes, even when he's being attacked by more than one person. Unbelievable. And he uses NO potions, NO engineering skills, nothing cheap - just Rogue abilities and bandages (periodically).

[zircon]

What, killing people? Isn't that the POINT of PVP?

[Beatdown]

What, killing people? Isn't that the POINT of PVP?

Killing things is the thesis of MMORPG's as we know it. I've always loved rogues and rogue-type classes in games anyway, think I'll stick with this one.

[Raenok]

Alright, help me decide. I want to take up a class that can perform well in battle (PVP, Instances, normal), a wide range of weapon choices, and is useful and effective in both solo and parties. And, it must be relating to the Horde, perferably with Trolls and Orcs.

[zircon]

Warrior. But Hunter has a pretty good variety too.

[CapnHulk]

Why don't you just make a rogue and kill everyone? You don't even need armor or decent weapons. (http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=6140)

[zircon]

Yeah.. I posted that video on page 8. Totally sick.

[SleazyC]

Er... sorry. I meant PvE. As in, high-end instances. Rogues are usually more trouble than they're worth there, partly because their whole design just doesn't contribute to the tank/AoE/support party format (i.e. too much aggro generation and not enough vitality to back it up, which causes both tanks and healers pain) and partly because the majority of groups will never become so well-coordinated that rogues are more than barely manageable in group PvE. Although as far as Battlegrounds PvP goes, rogues can't do much but go around killing people there either (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, except perhaps in WSG).
A good rogue will hardly pull aggro of a tank in Molten Core or other high end instances unless they get a string of crits. Using feign and vanish I've pulled aggro off the tank only a couple times. As far as vitality goes, with 5/8 NS and some enchants and other goodies a rogues HP can easily hit 4200-4500+. Rogues play a pretty important part in fights like Ragnaros where they can outdamage most other classes (except some sick fury warriors)

[Raenok]

Warrior. But Hunter has a pretty good variety too.

EDIT: Ah, I'll just do this: If Troll, Warrior or Hunter. If Undead, Warlock or Mage.

[zircon]

Yes, Rogues are essential in many encounters, Ragnaros being one of them. They can do nearly as much damage as a mage and spend no mana. They're an extremely well-designed class and should not be complaining.

[Raenok]

RWISE FROM YO GWAVE.

Okay, so...what would be the best class for Troll, Orc, and Undead? Just wondering.

...To tell you the truth, I can't really decide on what to choose.

[zircon]

RWISE FROM YO GWAVE.

Okay, so...what would be the best class for Troll, Orc, and Undead? Just wondering.

...To tell you the truth, I can't really decide on what to choose.

Err. Really, whatever you want. Race doesn't have a HUGE impact. That said, here's my recommendations.

Orcs make good Warriors and Hunters because of their increased resistance to stun, improved Axe skill, improved pet handling, and the ability to give themselves a temporary attack boost.

Undead can do pretty much anything. Their "Cannibalize" is great for melee classes because it reduces downtime, and Will of the Forsaken makes them much harder to kill for Priests and Warlocks (dispels Charm, Fear, and Sleep and grants immunity to those temporarily). Undead Priests get one of the best offensive spells in the game, Devouring Plague,

Trolls... are one of the most gimp races in the game. They have no really useful abilities, since Berserking doesn't quite work properly. But, Berserking probably makes a lot of sense for Warriors and Rogues.

[Raenok]

RWISE FROM YO GWAVE.

Okay, so...what would be the best class for Troll, Orc, and Undead? Just wondering.

...To tell you the truth, I can't really decide on what to choose.

Err. Really, whatever you want. Race doesn't have a HUGE impact. That said, here's my recommendations.

Orcs make good Warriors and Hunters because of their increased resistance to stun, improved Axe skill, improved pet handling, and the ability to give themselves a temporary attack boost.

Undead can do pretty much anything. Their "Cannibalize" is great for melee classes because it reduces downtime, and Will of the Forsaken makes them much harder to kill for Priests and Warlocks (dispels Charm, Fear, and Sleep and grants immunity to those temporarily). Undead Priests get one of the best offensive spells in the game, Devouring Plague,

Trolls... are one of the most gimp races in the game. They have no really useful abilities, since Berserking doesn't quite work properly. But, Berserking probably makes a lot of sense for Warriors and Rogues.

Guess your right. Looks like it's going to be either an Orc Hunter, Undead Warrior, or Undead Warlock.

[zircon]

Hmm.. my guild tried Ragnaros for the first time today (only been beaten once to date on Horde for our server). Our MT has 300+ fire res but no one else really has all that much. We got absolutely obliterated.. brought him to 89%, didn't even get to Phase 2. He's a beast.

[The Dennis]

Hmm.. my guild tried Ragnaros for the first time today (only been beaten once to date on Horde for our server). Our MT has 300+ fire res but no one else really has all that much. We got absolutely obliterated.. brought him to 89%, didn't even get to Phase 2. He's a beast.

My guild's trying him today (Thurs). I'm not even going, because I really don't want to pay for repairs. I realize that it's sort of lazy to wait around until the guild figures it out themselves, but I did a lot of Ragnaros strat-digging and nobody wanted to listen. I know exactly what to expect going in, but it seems the guild wants to just charge his ass with a bunch of fire resist. Not gonna work.

-Dennis-

[Russell Cox]

WAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! PALADINS SUX!!!!!!!!

Cry more? Don't be as stupid as the idiots on the official WoW forums, please.

Oh man. My guild just did Onyxia for the first time today - we did it on the third try. One of the most intense and fun fights ever. We had about 8 people alive when we finally took her down.. the celebration was incredible afterwords. Damn, most fun I've had in a game for a LONG time :D

Learn your place, mortal!

Such a really nice looking dragon model. She's cocky as shit though.

Heh, just wait until you get to Blackwing Lair, since you've already been working on Molten Core. There are no trash mobs starting off, and the first boss is going to make your jaw drop open -- "ordered chaos" is the best way to describe it. We went at the event for almost a month before we beat it, and when we did finish the first half we couldn't believe it (and wiped to Razorgore from being stunned in awe, but that's beside the point). The second boss, Vaelastraza the Corrupt starts at 30% health and will kick your ass across the room and apologize while doing so, lol.

Molten Core's pretty much like a normal dungeon crawl, with Ragnaros focused on burst DPS (like Lord Kazzak) and having a decent amount of Fire resistance gear to counter balance the lava surges. Tanks should get a good amount (since Ragnaros's attacks are all fire based, not physical), but beyond that for everyone else it doesn't matter. I have... 60~ fire resistance (I think?) on my Druid and haven't bothered with more.

Hmm.. my guild tried Ragnaros for the first time today (only been beaten once to date on Horde for our server). Our MT has 300+ fire res but no one else really has all that much. We got absolutely obliterated.. brought him to 89%, didn't even get to Phase 2. He's a beast.

Greater Fire Protection pots. Use one before you have someone 'suicide' to summon Ragnaros (we have people log out onto alts, join a channel, and the dead person will say when it's OK to log back on). It'll absorb 1.5-3.5K fire damage, but usually averages 2-2.5K. You can drink a pot before summoning him (lasts 60 minutes), and use another when yours wears off. They're more important than mana/health pots for *almost* everyone. The materials are cheap (1 Elemental Fire, 1 Dreamfoil, 1 Crystal Vial), and you the best droprate for the elementals are from the Burning Exiles in Arathi Highlands.

Ragnaros is one of those bosses that go onto farm status once you kill them.

Unfortunately, that combined with their almost uselessness as a contributing portion in group PvP and/or PvE is why most non-rogues hate rogues. The simple fact that it's possible to do that as a rogue, especially versus the best of other classes decked out with top gear, is cheap enough. Not to mention that, really, that's about all rogues can or will do in PvP.

Uh, no they're not. Rogues are the main source of damage on a lot of the bosses and even trash mobs in Molten Core, and they're where a good 60% of your DPS will come from in Blackwing Lair. Rogues are far from useless; the ones that know how to back off if they get a nasty string of lucky crits (or better yet actually know how to use Feign) are golden.

There's nothing wrong with Rogue endgame; there's just too many of them, like Hunters.

[DieZel]

As a friend of mine once said "the game designers of WoW probably play LineAge II in their free time" :) Seriously, LII is a great game, considering that the plot is a bit more interesting and the professions are great! The only problem about it is that I don't have time to play it. I used to sit in front of my computer for about 8-12 hours a day because of this game!
So vote for the right of personal life and ban MMORPGs ;)

[Bren]

Anyone else really looking forward to the next patch? I cant wait to try the new battleground, Arathi Basin. I really like the whole "king of the hill" concept behind it. Not to mention you get extra honor even if your team doesnt win

[Raenok]

After some time procrastinating, I have finally installed WoW. Now, what to choose, what to choose...

[Arcana]

After some time procrastinating, I have finally installed WoW. Now, what to choose, what to choose...

I'm still waiting for my thesis to be done, but I'm so impatient for it...

[The Dennis]

WAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! PALADINS SUX!!!!!!!!

Cry more? Don't be as stupid as the idiots on the official WoW forums, please.


I don't even have a paladin, and I don't even remember what I wrote since that was like weeks ago. None of it was baseless, though. I remember saying the talent trees are misguided at best, and I remember saying Blizzard gave paladins false hopes about their class. Those are both true. Shut up, Russell Cox.

-Dennis-



EDIT: Went back and read what I wrote. I also wrote that no paladins won the honor competition (true), and that Hammer of Wrath isn't an appropriate course of action for touching up the paladin class (question of opinion, but it sure doesn't address the talent trees or the general class role). I don't see any reason to bring it up again, but it's not like I was spreading lies.

[Russell Cox]

I don't even have a paladin, and I don't even remember what I wrote since that was like weeks ago. None of it was baseless, though. I remember saying the talent trees are misguided at best, and I remember saying Blizzard gave paladins false hopes about their class. Those are both true. Shut up, Russell Cox.

Cry more, please little child. If you don't play a class, shut the hell up about it. The only people that bitch about Paladin are the ones that aren't good at the job anyway. If you want to see a job that still need a role defined, look at Warlock. You came on her ranting raving about Paladins when you stated you HADN'T played them; GG moron.

Sorry, last I checked you don't rule my life, so I won't be shutting up little lassie.

[Skilless]

I don't even have a paladin, and I don't even remember what I wrote since that was like weeks ago. None of it was baseless, though. I remember saying the talent trees are misguided at best, and I remember saying Blizzard gave paladins false hopes about their class. Those are both true. Shut up, Russell Cox.

Cry more, please little child. If you don't play a class, shut the hell up about it. The only people that bitch about Paladin are the ones that aren't good at the job anyway. If you want to see a job that still need a role defined, look at Warlock. You came on her ranting raving about Paladins when you stated you HADN'T played them; GG moron.

Sorry, last I checked you don't rule my life, so I won't be shutting up little lassie.

Locks do need to be fixed~

On a side note. Priest is pretty bitchin'.

[The Dennis]

I don't even have a paladin, and I don't even remember what I wrote since that was like weeks ago. None of it was baseless, though. I remember saying the talent trees are misguided at best, and I remember saying Blizzard gave paladins false hopes about their class. Those are both true. Shut up, Russell Cox.

Cry more, please little child. If you don't play a class, shut the hell up about it. The only people that bitch about Paladin are the ones that aren't good at the job anyway. If you want to see a job that still need a role defined, look at Warlock. You came on her ranting raving about Paladins when you stated you HADN'T played them; GG moron.

Sorry, last I checked you don't rule my life, so I won't be shutting up little lassie.

Congratulations on not invalidating a word I said. "Cry more" and "gg" don't enforce your stance on anything in any setting. It's funny how you can quote a post and barely READ it.

Warlocks need some major fixes, that's for real. Where paladins are split between damage and heals/buffs, I can see someone saying that warlocks are split between damage and shardstones/debuffs. Thing is, you can concentrate on both at the same time. Push some curses off, and then start using shadow bolt or whatever. Am I saying that they're good at dealing damage? Not necessarily. I can see that they need many fixes, and I can see that most pets have little use in high-end instances.

That being said, does that mean paladins don't need a fix as well? Okay.

Don't be as stupid as the idiots on the official WoW forums, please.

Cry more

Ouch.

-Dennis-

[Raenok]

So, I now have an Orc Rouge. She looks to have potential, but I'm not sure Orcs were meant to be rouges. Also, since Halloween is coming up, I want to know if Blizzard celebrates this holiday with themes and special items. Plus, I want to switch to be a an Undead Mage.

Think I should? Or should I stick with the rouge?

[zircon]

You can always make two characters and see which one you like more.

BTW more updates from Gorefiend, Horde -
* Onyxia down for the third time (from my guild's hand anyway)

* Eye of Shadow IS A BITCH TO GET. Why did they make this so hard? There are 5 guilds ahead of mine, when you consider alliance, that we never get Kazzak. So I have to farm Winterspring for 40+ hours to even have a shot.

* Ragnaros hueg

[suzumebachi]

Uh, no they're not. Rogues are the main source of damage on a lot of the bosses and even trash mobs in Molten Core, and they're where a good 60% of your DPS will come from in Blackwing Lair. Rogues are far from useless; the ones that know how to back off if they get a nasty string of lucky crits (or better yet actually know how to use Feign) are golden.

There's nothing wrong with Rogue endgame; there's just too many of them, like Hunters.

Rogues are also essential for crowd control, and a good one will be able to stop a potential wipe in progress 75% of the time.

Also, I don't know about your server, but on Smolderthorn, hunters are pretty rare endgame.. everyone and their mother is either shaman, paladin, warrior or rogue.

Raenok: Orcs don't make the greatest rogues. Not that you CAN'T use them, but you're wasting your racial axe mastery and pet mastery by being a rogue. Trolls or Undead make better rogues. Trolls even get throwing weapon mastery, which is handy for rogues. Plus I don't know what the hell zircon is going off about, but the health regeneration is also pretty sweet. And then you go berserk and kill the fuck out of things.

Orcs are better off as Warriors (Axes FTW), Hunters or Warlocks. Or even Shamans (but then again Trolls and Taurens probably make just as good Shamans).

I'm not saying you can't do it, but you'll be doing yourself a disservice.

Though I really shouldn't be talking, considering I'm a Tauren with Engineering...

[Raenok]

Uh, no they're not. Rogues are the main source of damage on a lot of the bosses and even trash mobs in Molten Core, and they're where a good 60% of your DPS will come from in Blackwing Lair. Rogues are far from useless; the ones that know how to back off if they get a nasty string of lucky crits (or better yet actually know how to use Feign) are golden.

There's nothing wrong with Rogue endgame; there's just too many of them, like Hunters.

Rogues are also essential for crowd control, and a good one will be able to stop a potential wipe in progress 75% of the time.

Also, I don't know about your server, but on Smolderthorn, hunters are pretty rare endgame.. everyone and their mother is either shaman, paladin, warrior or rogue.

Raenok: Orcs don't make the greatest rogues. Not that you CAN'T use them, but you're wasting your racial axe mastery and pet mastery by being a rogue. Trolls or Undead make better rogues. Trolls even get throwing weapon mastery, which is handy for rogues. Plus I don't know what the hell zircon is going off about, but the health regeneration is also pretty sweet. And then you go berserk and kill the fuck out of things.

Orcs are better off as Warriors (Axes FTW), Hunters or Warlocks. Or even Shamans (but then again Trolls and Taurens probably make just as good Shamans).

I'm not saying you can't do it, but you'll be doing yourself a disservice.

Though I really shouldn't be talking, considering I'm a Tauren with Engineering...

Yeah..I've decided I will stick with an Orc Shaman for my mainstay, despite the warnings of them not being good in PvP combat. That's what trial-and-error is for.

[suzumebachi]

Uh, no they're not. Rogues are the main source of damage on a lot of the bosses and even trash mobs in Molten Core, and they're where a good 60% of your DPS will come from in Blackwing Lair. Rogues are far from useless; the ones that know how to back off if they get a nasty string of lucky crits (or better yet actually know how to use Feign) are golden.

There's nothing wrong with Rogue endgame; there's just too many of them, like Hunters.

Rogues are also essential for crowd control, and a good one will be able to stop a potential wipe in progress 75% of the time.

Also, I don't know about your server, but on Smolderthorn, hunters are pretty rare endgame.. everyone and their mother is either shaman, paladin, warrior or rogue.

Raenok: Orcs don't make the greatest rogues. Not that you CAN'T use them, but you're wasting your racial axe mastery and pet mastery by being a rogue. Trolls or Undead make better rogues. Trolls even get throwing weapon mastery, which is handy for rogues. Plus I don't know what the hell zircon is going off about, but the health regeneration is also pretty sweet. And then you go berserk and kill the fuck out of things.

Orcs are better off as Warriors (Axes FTW), Hunters or Warlocks. Or even Shamans (but then again Trolls and Taurens probably make just as good Shamans).

I'm not saying you can't do it, but you'll be doing yourself a disservice.

Though I really shouldn't be talking, considering I'm a Tauren with Engineering...

Yeah..I've decided I will stick with an Orc Shaman for my mainstay, despite the warnings of them not being good in PvP combat. That's what trial-and-error is for.

NOT GOOD IN PVP COMBAT? ...who tells you such bold LIES?

the NUMBER ONE, HIGHEST RANKED player on my server is a Tauren Shaman.

[Raenok]

NOT GOOD IN PVP COMBAT? ...who tells you such bold LIES?

the NUMBER ONE, HIGHEST RANKED player on my server is a Tauren Shaman.

Radical Dreamer.

He also had his spirit come into my bedroom at night, lay on top of my chest, and nearly suffocated me. Hard. And repeatedly. All night long. A WITCH I SAY!

[Russell Cox]

Rogues are also essential for crowd control, and a good one will be able to stop a potential wipe in progress 75% of the time.

Also, I don't know about your server, but on Smolderthorn, hunters are pretty rare endgame.. everyone and their mother is either shaman, paladin, warrior or rogue.

Raenok: Orcs don't make the greatest rogues. Not that you CAN'T use them, but you're wasting your racial axe mastery and pet mastery by being a rogue. Trolls or Undead make better rogues. Trolls even get throwing weapon mastery, which is handy for rogues. Plus I don't know what the hell zircon is going off about, but the health regeneration is also pretty sweet. And then you go berserk and kill the fuck out of things.

Orcs are better off as Warriors (Axes FTW), Hunters or Warlocks. Or even Shamans (but then again Trolls and Taurens probably make just as good Shamans).

I'm not saying you can't do it, but you'll be doing yourself a disservice.

Though I really shouldn't be talking, considering I'm a Tauren with Engineering...

Rogues are absolute shit for crowd control; Sap is the most unreliable ability in the game. Improved Sap *NEVER* works in a group when you need it to. Plus, very few times where crowd control is needed will there be just a humanoid. If you have the choice between letting the mage sheep or the Rogue Sap, you let the mage sheep. In the higher instances (Blackrock Spire/Strath/Scholo/Dire) it's not even worth it to let the Rogue try, as mobs hit so hard there's a high chance he's dead before he can hit the Vanish hotkey.

Throwing for Trolls is crappy racial; I have yet to see anyone beyond level 10 use throwing. Most people go for a gun, bow, or crossbow considering they can get harder hits on the firearm, as well as stat bonuses whereas you get nothing on throwing.

Orcs being better Warrior, absolutely. It's not because of the +Axe skill though; it's because of their +25% resistance to stun and knockback attacks. +5 skill really doesn't help that much since melee doesn't suffer as badly on monsters higher than you in comparison to caster resists.

Radical Dreamer.

He also had his spirit come into my bedroom at night, lay on top of my chest, and nearly suffocated me. Hard. And repeatedly. All night long. A WITCH I SAY!

Kinky.

[RocketSniper]

First post sums up why I don't play WoW...

=/

I started up a rogue, got to level 14, got some crazy leathercrafting, and quit playing. I had to use my brother's computer, and I ended up playing on the first night it was out. Needless to say, the random lag spikes, disconnects, and overall suckiness of the game repelled me. I ended up in a private RO server where I happily destroy random MVP's by myself at level 225. =o

[zircon]

Shamans are king of PVP as far as I'm concerned. They are really a PVP-oriented class, because they are capable of putting out massive burst damage with shocks (as well as status effects), they can enhance their own movement, clean debilitating effects, heal (slow OR fast), hit hard in melee, and screw up enemy casters with tremor/grounding totems as well as enemy melee with Earthbind. The reason their PVE usefulness is diminshed is that their big DPS cannot be sustained - they are very mana dependent. In PVP, it doesn't matter, since most fights are short. My PVP gear switch is entirely +Stamina based because I know that 95% of the time, when I die, it's with a lot of mana (and what good is the mana if you're dead?). But in PVE, you want to have good regeneration, aggro-reducing talents, and sustained healing or DPS - Shamans can do all that, but they're not as overpowered there as they are in PVE.

Paladins, on the other hand.. ;)

[Raenok]

Some questions:

Is there a way I could turn off that regeneration thing that happens to my Health and Mana after a battle?

What holidays does Blizzard celebrate in WoW?

Are there any special items relating to those holidays?

I've heard about Artifact-type items. Do they apply to be held by only one person in the entire server, or can there be multiple?

I have also heard that PVP is mostly just a capture-the-flag type deal. Will Blizzard just give us an option to have an all-out battle royale?

[zircon]

I think the top rank PVP stuff is getting buffed. Currently, some dropped items (like Untamed Blade from BWL) are better than the highest rank PVP stuff - and that is next to IMPOSSIBLE to get.

[The Dennis]

I've heard about Artifact-type items. Do they apply to be held by only one person in the entire server, or can there be multiple?

I'm pretty sure that no item is limited to one person per server, although there are a number of epic-quality items on the smaller servers that have only been looted by one or two people in the entire server. That's just because they're extremely rare, though, not limited to only one person. Although now that I think about it, is the top rank in PvP limited to one person per server, or was it the top 0.01% or something? Or are there even PvP reward items for only the top rank?


There are epics that are terribly hard to get from boss mobs (LOW drop rates, etc.) Then, there are legendary items, which are terribly hard to obtain (Sulfuras, for example, requires a rare drop off Ragnaros, 8 of a rare drop off Sulfuron, and many materials).

There are plans, assuming they don't change, for artifact items. No clue how they'll be obtained, but they will be the most powerful, and there will only be one of each per server.

-Dennis-

[Raenok]

Is the top rank in PvP limited to one person per server, or was it the top 0.01% or something? Or are there even PvP reward items for only the top rank?

Most of the higher ranks get armor sets. The top pvp person can get the set, then when he drops down again can still wear it, so even that's not limited to one person.

That's another question I wanted to ask. Say a person recieved a weapon from the honor system that he/she really likes. But after leaving the game for a few days (vacation, school, extra shifts in work for the holiday season), he/she drops a rank or two. Does that person keep the item forever even after they drop a rank, or does it dissapear?

[Raenok]

They keep the item once they've purchased it, but they cannot wear it if they're not the appropriate honor rank.

...That sucks.

[Raenok]

Not for Blizzard... the more reason they give to keep people addicted, playing, and paying, the better off they are. Fortunately, Blizzard, imo, makes addiction a lot more fun than EQ's brand of it.

But eventually, people will complain, which would make Blizzard change the rules a little to appease those.

And to anyone to disagrees, Blizzard may have hold of thier liesure time, but the customers are the ones that keep them alive.

[zircon]

They keep the item once they've purchased it, but they cannot wear it if they're not the appropriate honor rank.

No, they've addressed that. The items you can wear are based on your highest lifetime rank, not your current rank. That was the latest patch change.

[Raenok]

They keep the item once they've purchased it, but they cannot wear it if they're not the appropriate honor rank.

No, they've addressed that. The items you can wear are based on your highest lifetime rank, not your current rank. That was the latest patch change.

...So, that means if you get Warlord and then drop a few ranks, that will be your highest lifetime ranking, and you will be able to equip all the items you gained as Warlord, including the those war mounts? If so, then that was a really smart move.

[zircon]

Yes. It would have been ridiculous to have people play hundreds of hours of PVP (30-40+ a week) to HOLD their max rank.

[The Author]

NOT GOOD IN PVP COMBAT? ...who tells you such bold LIES?

the NUMBER ONE, HIGHEST RANKED player on my server is a Tauren Shaman.

Radical Dreamer.

He also had his spirit come into my bedroom at night, lay on top of my chest, and nearly suffocated me. Hard. And repeatedly. All night long. A WITCH I SAY!


Actually, I said they were good at burst PvP. Beyond that burst factor, they kinda suck. But you need a class that's able to withstand that initial explosion of damage.

[Raenok]

NOT GOOD IN PVP COMBAT? ...who tells you such bold LIES?

the NUMBER ONE, HIGHEST RANKED player on my server is a Tauren Shaman.

Radical Dreamer.

He also had his spirit come into my bedroom at night, lay on top of my chest, and nearly suffocated me. Hard. And repeatedly. All night long. A WITCH I SAY!


Actually, I said they were good at burst PvP. Beyond that burst factor, they kinda suck. But you need a class that's able to withstand that initial explosion of damage.

Oh...well...never mind. Sorry for the troubles, Mr. Dreamer.

[Atomic Skull]

I played WoW for about 2 months, hit cap and found out that all there really was to do at endgame was PVP and raid Molten Core over and over and over and over.

I never did like instances, they seem less real to me. There's no chance of just bumping into somone at random in a dungeon and teaming up to get somthing done or seeing somone else doing somthing else and wondering what that might be.

Crafting was poorly designed. No failure at all. You pick a craft to make stuff for yourself, forget about using it to make money because a billion other people are going to he high level in that tradeskill too.

Money serves no purpose beyond buying a mount and armor repairs. everything is bind on pickup.

There is almost no death penalty at all, so there is no reason to avoid bad tactics or not do stupid things. You can throw yourself against an obstacal over and over untill you get lucky.


I finally got sick of it and went back to FFXI. Comparing other MMOs to WoW is not a fair comparison because they are really two different markets. The vast majority of people who play WoW would not have purchased an MMO otherwise and it is designed with them in mind and not hardcore MMO players. So it's no wonder that the latter get bored and leave after a few months. I have a feeling though that in 2 years WoW will be where Starcraft and Diablo II is now. The people currently playing WoW are not long term hardcore MMOers and will eventually move on to the next latest greatest thing.

[Beatdown]

I played WoW for about 2 months, hit cap and found out that all there really was to do at endgame was PVP and raid Molten Core over and over and over and over.

I never did like instances, they seem less real to me. There's no chance of just bumping into somone at random in a dungeon and teaming up to get somthing done or seeing somone else doing somthing else and wondering what that might be.

Crafting was poorly designed. No failure at all. You pick a craft to make stuff for yourself, forget about using it to make money because a billion other people are going to he high level in that tradeskill too.

Money serves no purpose beyond buying a mount and armor repairs. everything is bind on pickup.

There is almost no death penalty at all, so there is no reason to avoid bad tactics or not do stupid things. You can throw yourself against an obstacal over and over untill you get lucky.


I finally got sick of it and went back to FFXI. Comparing other MMOs to WoW is not a fair comparison because they are really two different markets. The vast majority of people who play WoW would not have purchased an MMO otherwise and it is designed with them in mind and not hardcore MMO players. So it's no wonder that the latter get bored and leave after a few months. I have a feeling though that in 2 years WoW will be where Starcraft and Diablo II is now. The people currently playing WoW are not long term hardcore MMOers and will eventually move on to the next latest greatest thing.

Come play Everquest with me.


Also, I have decided that I love rogues very much. My question is does it really matter where I should be putting my talent points? With other classes it's one or the other or the other, but with rogues it seems like variations of ways to deal high damage.

[zircon]

Subtlety or "Prep" (preparation) spec rogues are generally suited for PVP and ganking. All those improved cooldowns and abilities really come in handy for making huge bursts of damage and just nailing your opponent as quickly as possible. You will, of course, be Dagger-spec so you can get Backstab and Ambush. Sword spec rogues are more PVE oriented, and better against heavily armored targets, as their Sinister Strikes will be more powerful.

That's just what I know so far. I'm still levelling up my Rogue.

Money has lots of purposes, too - epic mounts, materials for crafting, librams.. but it's MAINLY useful as a means of trade with other players. I always need more money to get potions, trade goods, enchants, and so forth.

[SleazyC]

Also, I have decided that I love rogues very much. My question is does it really matter where I should be putting my talent points? With other classes it's one or the other or the other, but with rogues it seems like variations of ways to deal high damage.
It all depends on what you really want to do with a rogue. Are you on a PVP or a PVE server? If you are on a PVE server do you like to PVP alot?

You have many variations on rogue builds such as a 21/8/22 or a 31/8/12 or some form of combat builds. I am not a big fan of the combat build (I use a 21/8/22) but I won't lie that it is particularly good against plate wearing classes. I am a huge fan of 21/8/22 because of the flexibility Preperation gives you. Sure you relay on cooldowns a whole lot more (which sucks because you may have to wait 10 mins to duel someone again) but in BG PVP and world pvp Preperation is a good send. It really lets you turn a losing battle into a winning one. I suggest you browse through the rogue forums on the WoW site and look at some of the stickies to get a feel of what other builds you can toy around with.

[Atomic Skull]

Come play Everquest with me.

Oh god no. Everquest is the Eye of Argon of MMOs. In fact if they were to ever publish Eye of Argon as a paperback the cover art would probably look a lot like EQ2's graphics. (Of couse we'd have other things to worry about at that point such as the apocalypse)

I'll stick with FFXI thanks.

[Beatdown]

Come play Everquest with me.

Oh god no. Everquest is the Eye of Argon of MMOs. In fact if they were to ever publish Eye of Argon as a paperback the cover art would probably look a lot like EQ2's graphics. (Of couse we'd have other things to worry about at that point such as the apocalypse)

I'll stick with FFXI thanks.

If that was an insult directed towards EQ, it flew way above my head. Also ironically enough the apocalypse already happened before EQ2 takes place. Blew up the moon and everything.

I'm on a PvP server if that helps any (Darkspear), and I do plan on doing lots of PvP so I just may take zircon's advice and go prep. Looking through the skill tree it does seem very useful in terms of PvP.

[zircon]

PLAY GOREFIEND, HORDE! Come on, people!

[Beatdown]

Only if there's more than one OCR member playing that server.

[suzumebachi]

Smolderthorn is where it's at. It's probably just about the most even server out there. It's like 1 alliance to 1.2 horde, and alliance is generally slightly more organized (especially since they combined all their top guilds into one). We can get some really good fights going. Like yesterday a few alliance 60s were wreaking havoc in STV so all the horde lowbies in the area banded together to hunt them down.

[Russell Cox]

I finally got sick of it and went back to FFXI. Comparing other MMOs to WoW is not a fair comparison because they are really two different markets. The vast majority of people who play WoW would not have purchased an MMO otherwise and it is designed with them in mind and not hardcore MMO players. So it's no wonder that the latter get bored and leave after a few months. I have a feeling though that in 2 years WoW will be where Starcraft and Diablo II is now. The people currently playing WoW are not long term hardcore MMOers and will eventually move on to the next latest greatest thing.

Have fun being the bitch of the Japanese in FFXI. You left a game that's still growing in endgame to go back to one where end-game consists of "Who gets the pull!" while you wait in that 21-24 timeframe.

Smart move.

[Ethis]

Does anyone play on the Bloodhoof server? I have a level 60 troll hunter, though I'm not playing as much anymore because of school. =/ (and yeah, FFXI is lame)

[zircon]

Only if there's more than one OCR member playing that server.

See, the problem I have is that there are all these new players, and players that have MAINS around level 30 (or lower). To me, levelling a character to 30 is nothing. I made the mistake of not playing with all my friends on Shattered Hand because I had a character up to 25 and I thought that was SO HIGH.. and now I regret it. So just keep that in mind. ;)

[Bren]

1.7 just went live. Cant wait to PvP in Arathi Basin :D

[Rodin]

Only if there's more than one OCR member playing that server.

See, the problem I have is that there are all these new players, and players that have MAINS around level 30 (or lower). To me, levelling a character to 30 is nothing. I made the mistake of not playing with all my friends on Shattered Hand because I had a character up to 25 and I thought that was SO HIGH.. and now I regret it. So just keep that in mind. ;)

Yeah, I found out that a bunch of my friends were playing on a different server after I had already bought my mount with my main. That pretty much settled the question of whether or not I was going to change servers or not.

[Rodin]

1.7 just went live. Cant wait to PvP in Arathi Basin :D

Are hunters getting a free re-spec? If so, I really need to find the time and money to re-subscribe, because I really want to try out my new ideas for a hunter in the live game.


Yes. Yes they are. :D

Got mixed feelings about it - on the other hand, I can FINALLY not be marskman specced. On the other hand, they gave us a fistful of nerfs to go along with the generous helping of buffs we recieved. So long, mortal shots. We hardly knew ye.

[Bren]

SWEET! They finally decided to make PvPRP servers. (yes, I like RP. leave me alone)

[zircon]

ARATHI BASIN IS FUCKING AWESOME!

I just finished my 5th or 6th match today and it RULES. It's NOT gear vs. gear, it's not small enough so that a guild "organized" group will auto-dominate, but it's not so large that it's overwhelming. It's perfect if you ask me. Honor is nice too.

[hamburglar]

I haven't been on WoW in a little over a week. How were pallys affected by 1.7?

[zircon]

Not a lot of changes. They basically got a new ability, a ranged attack spell that can only be cast if your target is below a certain amount of health - a ranged Execute if you will.

[Raenok]

Not a lot of changes. They basically got a new ability, a ranged attack spell that can only be cast if your target is below a certain amount of health - a ranged Execute if you will.

After some time thinking, I believe either Paladin or Preist would be best suited for me. However, I want to join the faction of the Alliance, BUT, I want to play with people who won't act like a bunch of retards. Now, the questions:

Which would be more highly valued? Priest or Paladin?

How well do they fare in PVP? PVE?

Would they be worth it to play as?

Oh, and I don't really care about how many Paladins there are. I could always go Priest. Oh, and I am on the Alleria server.

[Beatdown]

I want to play with people who won't act like a bunch of retards.

You're playing the wrong game son.

Which would be more highly valued? Priest or Paladin?

PvP? Paladin. PvE? Priest.

How well do they fare in PVP? PVE?

Not sure about priests (I've killed my fair share rogue-style), but paladins are near impossible to kill 1v1. They simply don't die.

Would they be worth it to play as?

I wanna say there really isn't a class in the game that's not worth playing, but for the sake of specification both classes are very enjoyable.

Zircon'll probably post longer, more indepth info though.

[Raenok]

I want to play with people who won't act like a bunch of retards.

You're playing the wrong game son.

..Okay, that's true. What I meant was, people who won't rush into dangerous instances and battlegrounds while shouting some future internet slogan. Then again, I have low standards for the community in WoW...

[Beatdown]

I want to play with people who won't act like a bunch of retards.

You're playing the wrong game son.

..Okay, that's true. What I meant was, people who won't rush into dangerous instances and battlegrounds while shouting some future internet slogan. Then again, I have low standards for the community in WoW...

Oh, then you're ok. You'll find retards everywhere on the internet but thankfully the community's large enough to accomodate for everyone else.

[zircon]

Sadly, I don't know much about Paladins. I do, of course, know a lot about Priests as I have over 30 days of playing time on mine. They are generally very easy to level up because they are good at soloing and have lots of 'escape' skills (Shield, Fear, Renew - all instants) to boot. While they won't be taking anything WAY above their level, they can pull off some of the highest single-target damage in the game if they are Shadow specced. Surprisingly, specializing this way does not impair your healing ability much at all - I spent a great deal of time in instances too, at all levels. In 1v1 PVP they are one of the most feared classes in the game, and in group PVP they are a great asset. A Discipline/Holy specialization makes you an even more powerful support class or healer, though you lose lots of damage dealing power.

The job of a Priest in instances consists of basically knowing when to use your different healing and battle-saving abilities. You won't be doing much damage, especially not in the later instances. What you WILL need to do is keep the right people alive at the right times. You need to know when to use a Flash Heal (weaker, fast-casting heal) vs. a Renew (instant cast regeneration), vs. a Greater Heal (very powerful, but slow heal) vs. a Prayer of Healing (slow casting group heal of moderate power) - how to use Fear to control mobs if necessary, when to throw a Mind Control on a humanoid, or when to Shield a tank or even yourself. It's challenging, but a lot of fun. Boss fights where you're constantly healing, drinking potions, using trinkets, manuevering around, and hitting a whole bunch of buttons is just great fun, and it's very rewarding IMO to know you were the one that saved the party from a wipe.

In PVP, the plus sides are that you are RELATIVELY durable in comparison to other casters. You have the "Power Word: Shield" spell which will protect you from a fair amount of damage and ensure your casts don't get interrupted, an AREA Fear that casts instantly and cools down fairly fast, Shadowform if you are shadow-specced (which brings your damage reduction closer to a Mail wearing class with a shield then a cloth wbearer), and your fast heals/regeneration. I have survived beatdowns for extended periods of time and even beaten some people 2v1 before. However a Priest relies HEAVILY on mana and we have no special way to regain it. Mages can use Evocate in a pinch, Druids have Innervate (sometimes), Shamans can get Mana Tide totem or just melee when they are low - when a Priest is low on mana, we can't do anything. We are sitting ducks and we die FAST when that time comes. You will very often be the first target of mana burns, viper stings (mana drain over time), Warrior charges, rogue stuns, and Mage polymorphs.

But on the bright side, YOU are the one that keeps the Mage alive that teleports into a group of enemies and nukes them to death. YOU are the one that throws that area fear down just in time so that the graveyard can be captured. YOU are the one that stops the full epic-wearing Rogue dead in his tracks with the most powerful single-target damage spells in the game. Sure, it's not the easiest class, and maybe not the most 'direct' (that would be Warrior or Mage), but it's a blast to me.

As for Paladins.. I gather that they are really more healbots than anything else. They really can't spec for damage, like a Priest. They are, however, the ultimate combat healers because of their shield, Plate armor, and generally high HP. They have a bubble of invulnerability and a once-a-day Lay on Hands that can basically give them up to three extra lifebars, and with a very powerful 2H weapon, they can actually wear down casters pretty fast. Nonetheless, they are primarily support, even moreso than Priests.

[SleazyC]

Which would be more highly valued? Priest or Paladin?
I'd say a priest would be valued much more then a paladin, but it depends on your server and what faction you play on. Some servers have very low populations of priests but most of the time you have many more Pally's then priests.

How well do they fare in PVP? PVE?
In PVE Pally's and Priests are heal and cleanse bots. That is most of the time (this is in high-end raid content) you will be spamming heals and cleansing diseases, poisons, you know the deal. Priests can spec for Shadow and put out some incredible damage. A good Shadow Priest is a very scary thing to battle for just about any class. If you want to concentrate on heavy PVP I would definately recommend rolling a shadow priest. Pally's are very dangerous in PVP too but I do think they are a bit more gear dependent.

[cobaltstarfire]

Shield+Hearth, Shield+Hearth!

God I hate pallys...Aleast priest will die with some work...

[Beatdown]

I would like to re-emphasize that paladins do not die 1v1. I'm so glad I went Alliance.

[SleazyC]

I would like to re-emphasize that paladins do not die 1v1. I'm so glad I went Alliance.
Damn Pally's....

They do die! I just have to fight them for about 15 minutes and hope that they aren't stupid enough to cleanse my crippling poisons so I can get away to restealth....

[zircon]

Yeah, I can actually beat most Paladins.. it just takes forever. Mana Burn, Mana Burn, Mana Burn, Mana Burn, Mindblast/Mindflay and level 1 Shadow Word: Pain to build up Shadow Vulnerability and also to waste their mana on Cleanse.

[cobaltstarfire]

Takes you 15 minutes to kill one...I'm a DRUID. It'd probably take me 20-30 minutes to kill one if I bothered with it, which I never will considering a druid v druid fight takes that long, druid v pally probably takes even longer, and I have better things to do then see who had the bigger mana pool.

[The wingless]

omg. Two brand new PvP-RP servers! THAT WHICH WE DORKS HAVE BEEN SALIVATING FOR since the game came out.

Reroll for great justice and nerd-speak!

[Bren]

omg. Two brand new PvP-RP servers! THAT WHICH WE DORKS HAVE BEEN SALIVATING FOR since the game came out.

Reroll for great justice and nerd-speak!

Three! Maelstrom, Emerald Dream, and the newest addition: Twisting Nether (the one Im on)

[suzumebachi]

i'm liking this 1.7 patch, but i'm probably going to have to respec again, despite the free respec i got from the update. i went with BM again like i had before, not quite realizing how terribly nerfed Spirit Bond is now. i think i'm gonna respec and go for a mixture of survival (the new survival tree is freaking awesome) and marks.

though i didn't get a lot of time to play yesterday, first thing i did was go catch a cat with the new Prowl ability... sweet jesus it's awesome. that with the new tweaks on pet AI (they won't attack sheep, sapped, or frozen guys anymore) means hunter pets become 100x more viable in dungeons.

also: there's a PvP-RP server now? hook a brotha up!

SO LIKE... all us OCR folks should get a guild going on one of the PvP-RP servers or something. which one are you guys on?

[Leon K.]

I just rerolled a night elf hunter on twisting ether, hit me up with on the name Virgil and maybe we'll kick it ;D

[Beatdown]

Everyone go alliance on Twisting Nether!

[zircon]

I was going to, until I realized it's RP-PVP. The last thing I want to do is that. If it were just PVP, I'd play.

[The wingless]

I'm on Twisting Nether... though it got strangely buggy at around 1:00 central. No NPC's in the Eastvale lumber mill.

Eh, no matter.

The name's True, and I r teh warlockz. Look me up!

[suzumebachi]

i guess i'll roll an alliance on twisting nether..

zircon: what's wrong with PvP-RP? it's leaps and bounds better than that carebear plain jane RP shit. i can't stand 'Normal' servers now. on a PvP server you come across a member of the opposing faction, you kill the shit out of them. on a normal server, you play hopskotch and pantomime the latest episode of queer eye for the straight guy using emotes. it makes me want to stab people in the face through the internet.

[zircon]

i guess i'll roll an alliance on twisting nether..

zircon: what's wrong with PvP-RP? it's leaps and bounds better than that carebear plain jane RP shit. i can't stand 'Normal' servers now. on a PvP server you come across a member of the opposing faction, you kill the shit out of them. on a normal server, you play hopskotch and pantomime the latest episode of queer eye for the straight guy using emotes. it makes me want to stab people in the face through the internet.

I don't play RP because I don't want to RP in WoW. I only play on normal PVP servers.

[Raenok]

I feel like joining a server that is either normal or PVP, and doesn't contain much alliance, or is balanced out. And, people on both sides are reasonably intellegent (as in, they actually plan things in both solo and parties, and don't try to show off by acting like The Punisher in places where a well-placed hit can down them in an instant, or blame other party members for things they did themselves, OR abandon thier party and go some other place while the rest are being picked off, OR breaking up after assembling a party because they had to go do something really important).

Any suggestions? Heck, if you persuede me enough, I'll even join a RP or PVP-RP server.

[SleazyC]

I feel like joining a server that is either normal or PVP, and doesn't contain much alliance, or is balanced out. And, people on both sides are reasonably intellegent (as in, they actually plan things in both solo and parties, and don't try to show off by acting like The Punisher in places where a well-placed hit can down them in an instant, or blame other party members for things they did themselves, OR abandon thier party and go some other place while the rest are being picked off, OR breaking up after assembling a party because they had to go do something really important).
You just summed up 80% of the population on most servers in WoW. Can't tell you how many times I have been in an alliance or horde capitol and some asshat is spamming all the channels with some epic item he just got. You get random crap like that one every server really.

[Raenok]

I feel like joining a server that is either normal or PVP, and doesn't contain much alliance, or is balanced out. And, people on both sides are reasonably intellegent (as in, they actually plan things in both solo and parties, and don't try to show off by acting like The Punisher in places where a well-placed hit can down them in an instant, or blame other party members for things they did themselves, OR abandon thier party and go some other place while the rest are being picked off, OR breaking up after assembling a party because they had to go do something really important).
You just summed up 80% of the population on most servers in WoW. Can't tell you how many times I have been in an alliance or horde capitol and some asshat is spamming all the channels with some epic item he just got. You get random crap like that one every server really.

...Don't I feel stupid.

[SleazyC]

...Don't I feel stupid.
Meh, you learn to deal with it. For one thing you can always leave the channel where said spamming is being done. You also have the /ignore command (although its limited to 40 people). One thing you can't really avoid is grouping with stupid people. For the most part I have grouped with my fair share of idiots and ninja's but I also met some awesome people along the way. One way to remedy this would probably be to join a server where someone you know is playing on and try to hook up with him/her and the people they know.

[Rodin]

My computer hates me. ONE DAY after the long awaited hunter patch, and my video card melts.

Ter-bleeding-RIFFIC. :x

[eppy]

This new patch takes too long to download and install -_-.
Anyone try the new bg yet?

[zircon]

This new patch takes too long to download and install -_-.
Anyone try the new bg yet?

I've played 8 matches or so. It rocks. It gives PUGs a LITTLE more of a chance against organized guild groups.. it's not as much gear vs gear as WSG is right now, but not so NPC-based as AV (in fact, no NPCs at all). However, strategy can play a big part. What's really nice is that there is *essentially* a time limit because you're ALWAYS gaining resources. You won't be able to win a match in just minutes, but it won't last for an hour either.

[cobaltstarfire]

The time limit is also cool cause it means you won't have idiots farming for cp. :roll:

It can be really bad though if you're in a group of people that don't like to work together, yesterday I came into the end of a game where everyone was just argueing, they had lost by a pretty large scale too.

[Arcana]

Everyone go alliance on Twisting Nether!

A friend and I want to join up on an RP server together... my friend wants to be a Gnome character (alliance). When I finish my thesis I'm signing up (probably late October).

I suppose that this is the place to go to maximize my connections, then. This is awesome news.

[p1x13]

I have World of Warcraft and Guild Wars.
I chose World of Warcraft over Guild Wars in the end. xD

[The wingless]

You'll be *elated* to know that on Twisting Nether, a realm barely out of its 48th hour infancy, there are reprots of 20's prowling around.

Still, it's nice/bizzare leveling up and seeing a billion people in starting zone quest areas. For example, flying by griffon from Stormwind and looking down to see 2 dozen people (at least) slaughtering gnolls near the Westfall edge.

I forsee good times!

[suzumebachi]

I started a human pally on twisting nether.. as if there weren't enough. anyways if you wanna meet up, just look for 'Mason'.

We should start a guild or something.

[suzumebachi]

here, out of boredom, i came up with some guild tabard ideas...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/sz1985/Tabard1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/sz1985/Tabard2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/sz1985/Tabard3.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/sz1985/Tabard4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/sz1985/Tabard5.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/sz1985/Tabard6.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/sz1985/Tabard7.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/sz1985/Tabard8.jpg

[The wingless]

holy crap those are ugly, dood :?

[suzumebachi]

the joys of MSpaint

[Victis Honor]

lol. I like the pretty kitty. =^_^=

[Dryft]

WoW has a lot of good qualities about it. A lot. A lot of MMORPG style games have similar ups and downs, though. When you hit those higher levels, things kind of hit a plateau. I like the fact that Blizzard came up with a lot of challenging things for the high levels to do. And the injection of new material periodically keeps things interesting. Wow is also great because even if you don't have the time to grind out the levels and power your way to the top, you don't get the feeling of being left behind. It's a very nicely paced game. But there's me rambling on about Wow. I like it.

[suzumebachi]

i like all the holidays and random world events and shit in WoW. like right now it's harvest season for the horde, so outside of orgrimmar there's tables set up with craploads of free food, fireworks and stuff being sold for cheap, and a quest to honor a fallen hero that yields pretty nice XP.

edit: except for one problem... Smolderthorn is down yet again. 6th time this month.

edit 2: the WoW forum login server is down too. bastards.

[suzumebachi]

i officially hate this game now.

since the last patch, my server has become so incredibly inbalanced. all the horde are sitting at AB, waiting for the next BG to start. and what are the alliance doing? killing everything.

i go to STV to try to level, i can't kill 2 fucking mobs for every 1 time i get ganked by a lvl 60 alliance. i check /who to see who else is in STV, and i'm the highest level fucking horde there (lvl 43).

questing/grinding is now impossible thanks to all the chicken shit lvl 60 alliance who take out their frustration at getting owned by horde in AB on all the lowbies trying to level.

i quit.

[SleazyC]

Nefarion Down (http://photobucket.com/albums/a181/vehn23/?action=view&current=nefcorpse.jpg)

Drama on Shattered Hand did it

[suzumebachi]

that's freaking awesome.

also: i feel much better now. i have had my vengeance. i went on the killing spree of a lifetime, starting with the lower level alliance running around outside grom'gul like they own the place. after i cleaned that mess up, i managed to track down two of the level ??'s that killed me, and got them both, one at time. the last thing they expected was a hunter 10 levels below them to come running up in the most furious rage and kill the shit out of them. damn that felt good.

[SleazyC]

Hunter is an interesting class to play.

I have seen vids of a lvl 37 hunter killing a 60 rogue in full epics (4 pieces of Nightslayer, 3 pieces of Bloodfang). If a hunter catches a rogue with out his cooldowns he/she can easily kite the rogue to death. A hunter that can kite effectively is a tough battle for just about any of the close combat classes.

[mecca]

LEEEEROOOOOY!

Duoing SM with a lv50+ at lv33+ is a fantastic way to level incase any of you are within that range. I make 10g easily each run after auctions.

[suzumebachi]

one was a rogue, the other a pally. the rogue was surprisingly easy.. just wing clipped him, backed off while my pet harassed him, and pumped him full of lead.

the pally was a bit tougher, but i caught him definitely by surprise. i got a few good hits on him before he got his wits about him and got me with hammer of justice. while i was stunned, he tried to bandage himself but my pet was eating away at his attempt. so he starts whacking on me a bit when i get out of the stun. i war stomp, wing clip, then get just into gun range and hit him with viper sting and start draining his mana. see right here he could have had me, but he panicked and used that whatever healing spell pallies have that heals them fully but drains their mana. so i put another viper sting on him right away and he couldn't do shit. didn't even have enough mana for basic attack skills. so i clipped him again and got out of range, used rapid fire, and shot the holy hell out of him until he died. took a while though, but since he was too busy panicking trying to run away than trying to fight, i was able to easily control the fight.

[zircon]

Nefarion Down (http://photobucket.com/albums/a181/vehn23/?action=view&current=nefcorpse.jpg)

Drama on Shattered Hand did it

Nice. Several of my IRL friends are on Shattered Hand in that guild. Kind of makes me wish I had started with them rather on my own server.

[Ramaniscence]

Yea...seeing as I actually have a job to fund it, and I've recently found myself with a lot more internet freetime due to some exceednig retard circumstances (http://www.enterthegame.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1187), I've caught the black plague of the internet, AKA WoW.

It's a lot of fun for now, teetering between Archimonde and Illidian trying to raise 2 different characters for 2 seperate friends circles is proving to be quite tedious, though. Oh well, I have money o burn now =P

[suzumebachi]

oh you whore. should have started on Smolderthorn.

[Prokop]

one was a rogue, the other a pally. the rogue was surprisingly easy.. just wing clipped him, backed off while my pet harassed him, and pumped him full of lead.

the pally was a bit tougher, but i caught him definitely by surprise. i got a few good hits on him before he got his wits about him and got me with hammer of justice. while i was stunned, he tried to bandage himself but my pet was eating away at his attempt. so he starts whacking on me a bit when i get out of the stun. i war stomp, wing clip, then get just into gun range and hit him with viper sting and start draining his mana. see right here he could have had me, but he panicked and used that whatever healing spell pallies have that heals them fully but drains their mana. so i put another viper sting on him right away and he couldn't do shit. didn't even have enough mana for basic attack skills. so i clipped him again and got out of range, used rapid fire, and shot the holy hell out of him until he died. took a while though, but since he was too busy panicking trying to run away than trying to fight, i was able to easily control the fight.

The problem is PvP servers, not the game in general. The game is a lot more fun and relaxing when you can do as you please without assholes ruining everything.

[SleazyC]

The problem is PvP servers, not the game in general. The game is a lot more fun and relaxing when you can do as you please without assholes ruining everything.
Then the problem arises when you get to endgame and all your guild does is raid Molten Core/BWL/Ony and you have nothing to really do in your spare time. You can go to BG's but then you just figure out that is a bunch of honor farmers with pre-made teams so you can either play in abysmall PUG's or make your own team. The solution PVP realms offer that is wide open world PVP which hasn't been seen on every other server since the introduction of the honor (and the dishonorable kill) system.

[zircon]

Well.. 1.8 will introduce 4 more outdoor raid bosses as well as even more high end content. Soon enough we're getting another 20 man and another 40 man instance. So I think ultimately there will be a lot to do.

[SleazyC]

Also, the Arathi BG is supposedly much more difficult to dominate with pre-arranged groups?
After having played Arathi for a couple weeks I can safely say that nothing has changed between WSG and this BG for pre-made teams. The pre-made teams that actually dominated had coordination to begin with in WSG. WSG really didn't need too much strategy. AB on the other hand is a very strategic battle and the pre-made teams that already had coordination in WSG are doing just as well. Pick-up's usually don't fare as well because you always have a couple people that won't listen/follow orders and in my eyes following orders in AB is what makes the difference between a winning team and a losing team.

[Ramaniscence]

oh you whore. should have started on Smolderthorn.

People from WYHT play on Arch + a hot asian my friend knows[/url], so I went there, and my IRL friends play on Illidian, so =P.

I wanna make a darkelf somewhere though, you down?

The problem is PvP servers, not the game in general. The game is a lot more fun and relaxing when you can do as you please without assholes ruining everything.

So....what you're saying is...you'd rather just...level...and fight the same monsters over and over so you can get better weapons to...fight the same monster? Where the hell is the fun in that?

YOU'RE NOT LIVNIG IN THE WORLD OF WARCRAFT, YOU'RE LIVNIG IN THE FOREST OF FEELINGS :(

[suzumebachi]

you get 40 people on a single raid channel, decide what you're gonna do ahead of time, and do it.

the largest group i've participated in thus far (im only level 44) was a 25 man raid on the alliance capitols of stormwind and ironforge. the key is communication. you designate 2 or 3 guys who know what they're doing as leaders, and they tell everyone else what to do. and it also helps that the raid is broken up into smaller groups of 5. those 5 guys form their own seperate group inside the main group. if the raid leader is smart, he'll put at least 1 tank and 1 healer into each group. then each group is responsible for itself, and helps out the other groups as a whole.

[suzumebachi]

YOU'RE NOT LIVNIG IN THE WORLD OF WARCRAFT, YOU'RE LIVNIG IN THE FOREST OF FEELINGS :(

it's funny because it's true. anyways, archimonde and illidan? which do you play on more often, and which faction?

[Ramaniscence]

YOU'RE NOT LIVNIG IN THE WORLD OF WARCRAFT, YOU'RE LIVNIG IN THE FOREST OF FEELINGS :(

it's funny because it's true. anyways, archimonde and illidan? which do you play on more often, and which faction?

I've been teterrng between both pretty evenly. Except daytime play is more Archimonde nighttime play is more Iliddian, and I'm horde on both. Tauren on Ill, Troll on Arch.

[zircon]

Well.. 1.8 will introduce 4 more outdoor raid bosses as well as even more high end content. Soon enough we're getting another 20 man and another 40 man instance. So I think ultimately there will be a lot to do.

20 and 40-man instances? What?

Maybe the system is simply that different, but...how do you coordinate 40 people? Coming from GW, where the maximum team size is 8, and it's hard enough coordinating just that few (what skills you have in comparison with others on the team, what specific classes do we need, what's our strategy, and all). But how on earth would you do that with 40 people? Or are characters in WoW that much more independent from one another?

(note, this isn't a gw vs. wow post, I'm simply very curious to see what's on the other side of the fence)

Obviously, it really only works if you have a full guild. When we are arranging a 40 man instance run, we post a signup and have a designated time. We also all get on Ventrilo. But 40 man is really nothing in the grand scheme of things.. if I recall, EverQuest had 100+ man raids.

[SleazyC]

Go go Lineage II 500 person raids!

http://www.l2day.com/l2day1/img/park/0504/0402/society_1636_01.jpg

http://www.l2day.com/l2day1/img/park/0504/0402/society_1636_02.jpg

http://www.l2day.com/l2day1/img/park/0504/0402/society_1636_05.jpg

http://www.norinuri.co.kr/temp_img/slrkajsep/2005/050412/05.gif

http://www.norinuri.co.kr/temp_img/slrkajsep/2005/050412/03.gif

[zircon]

Yeah.. but to some extent those fights are kind of dumb. In WoW, EVERY person in the 40 man raid has to be doing a job, at least until you are very skilled/geared up, at which point you can be a bit lax (until you get to the next boss, or next raid area, etc).

[SleazyC]

Yea but I just love how epic some of the battles look even though it could just consist of you slamming on a couple keys. As far as 40 man raids in WoW right now. All the way up to Domo in Molten Core is a pushover. 20 people could be seriously playing and you can still breeze through the instance. BWL is actually an instance where one person can wipe a whole raid.

[Ramaniscence]

Yea but I just love how epic some of the battles look even though it could just consist of you slamming on a couple keys. As far as 40 man raids in WoW right now. All the way up to Domo in Molten Core is a pushover. 20 people could be seriously playing and you can still breeze through the instance. BWL is actually an instance where one person can wipe a whole raid.

From what I understand, L2 raids to a lot of strategy, especially castle sieges. My friends played it for quite sometime before they switched to WoW. At which point they did because the guild they were in created an alliance, overthrough the guild that was basically running the server, and after they had done that there really just wasn't much else to do.

That, and the grind to the max level took an incredibly ridiculous ammount of time...

..and one of them got banned for saying "eBay".

[suzumebachi]

Yea but I just love how epic some of the battles look even though it could just consist of you slamming on a couple keys. As far as 40 man raids in WoW right now. All the way up to Domo in Molten Core is a pushover. 20 people could be seriously playing and you can still breeze through the instance. BWL is actually an instance where one person can wipe a whole raid.

From what I understand, L2 raids to a lot of strategy, especially castle sieges. My friends played it for quite sometime before they switched to WoW. At which point they did because the guild they were in created an alliance, overthrough the guild that was basically running the server, and after they had done that there really just wasn't much else to do.

That, and the grind to the max level took an incredibly ridiculous ammount of time...

..and one of them got banned for saying "eBay".

gimme your names on Archimonde and Illidan so i can find you faghat.

[Russell Cox]

Yeah.. but to some extent those fights are kind of dumb. In WoW, EVERY person in the 40 man raid has to be doing a job, at least until you are very skilled/geared up, at which point you can be a bit lax (until you get to the next boss, or next raid area, etc).

Yar. It's kinda cute when you see random Joe's guild #234 rant rave that "we killed Ragnaros 234,024 times, so we're good to clear Blackwing Lair" when they don't have a damn clue what they're getting into. With the introduction of Dark Iron gear, killing Ragnaros totes as much weight for e-p33n purposes as saying you killed Arugal solo.

[zircon]

Eh. Maybe on your server. On mine, the first Horde rag kill was not even a month ago. Only three Horde guilds have done it to date, and my guild has been trying since we formed (a little over two months ago).

[Russell Cox]

Eh. Maybe on your server. On mine, the first Horde rag kill was not even a month ago. Only three Horde guilds have done it to date, and my guild has been trying since we formed (a little over two months ago).

Um, sorry, but Ragnaros doesn't change difficulty based on server. He's nothing more than a glorified Lord Kazzak; the only difference between the two is your tank needs Fire Resistance gear for Ragnaros and you have to deal with his Sons (wow, 6 mobs that die in 5-10 seconds each to 40 people).

In the end it's just a race of massive DPS burst by the Rogues, and success is measured by whether they remember they have a "Feint" ability or not. Pat yourselves on the back for doing Majordomo Executus with ease, no Ragnaros.

Most of the guilds that are just NOW getting to kill Ragnaros are going for massive fire resistance gear on *everyone* in the raid, whereas only the tank need as much as possible. 120-150 after buffed on the Rogues and Warriors, as much as possible on the main tanks, and 50+ on the rest of the classes. Guilds go for this massive hunt for gear for everyone and spend months doing this, and then when they get to Ragnaros realize all the work was for naught because they end up needing more and more DPS/Healing gear than FR.

[zircon]

We've tried it three times now with MTs having over 300 FR and we have failed miserably - wipe before phase 2 at 75% or so. It is a hard fight. It's easy to look back on it and say "oh, that was so easy" AFTER your entire raid is geared up with MC weapons and armor, and after you've collected tons of cores to get the DI stuff.

[Russell Cox]

We've tried it three times now with MTs having over 300 FR and we have failed miserably - wipe before phase 2 at 75% or so. It is a hard fight. It's easy to look back on it and say "oh, that was so easy" AFTER your entire raid is geared up with MC weapons and armor, and after you've collected tons of cores to get the DI stuff.

None of our tanks have more than 2 pieces of DI gear. Their FR is over 300 because of the UBRS mind control buff as well as librams and other gear. Secondly, the only classes that have more than 4 pieces of ANY Molten Core gear are Druids since we only have 4 and Cenarion drops regularly. Stop assuming we're geared out the ass.

"wipe before phase 2 at 75%" is ambiguous. What are you dying to? The Sons themselves, or few people left alive after he submerges? If most of the raid is dead before Phase 2 then it's a problem with you healers, their positioning, and people that are NOT Rogues ripping hate and not backing off. If they're not using Greater Fire Protection potions, they should -- 2.5K absorbtion (roughly) goes longer on this fight than a Major Mana/Health pot will. The pot mats are dirt cheap and the absorbtion lasts 60 minutes; you can put one on before battle and wait until your timer is up again before engaging.

Whether or not you killed him doesn't mean he's hard. He isn't and that has nothing to do with the fact that my guild has killed it; if your people pay attention and do their job (and Rogues don't forget they have a damn Feint) you have him in the bag -- the practice is just to nail it down. None of the bosses in Molten Core are (except Majordomo *before* you could Polymorph the Priests...); it's a dungeon that's designed to get people used to working together in a 40-man team to prepare them for the truly hard dungeons later on. If Ragnaros was "hard" you wouldn't even have gotten him beyond 99% if you've only had three attempts.

(On a separate note, hopefully you aren't killing him JUST as Majordomo summons him -- he's fucking PISSED then and I don't know of any guild kills him then since it's not worth the hassle. Usually you have 39 people log off on the (C) island, the 40th person naked and sacrifice themselves after talking to Majordomo, and then everyone logs back on in 2-3 minutes.)

[zircon]

When I say we die before phase 2, I mean we die BEFORE the sons are spawned. People just get wiped out by the lava splashes. What we're doing is saying that all casters need 100+ FR unbuffed, rogues/non-MT warriors need 150 at a bare minimum, and the MT's shamans need 200+. Really, the MT has no trouble keeping aggro, and he doesn't die. It's simply that people are getting destroyed by the splashes over time.

We haven't tried this with consumables yet - we want to see if we can get him down to about 40% before the second sons spawn. I haven't heard about the pissed thing. We just take him right then and there, pretty much.

Also, the reason why I assume you are geared is because all the guilds on my server that killed him were quite geared when they did so. The people that hit every MC/onyxia in my guild have about 5-6 pieces each, for example. Savage Fury, who got the first Rag kill for Horde, had even more than that (per person). Of course, those players also have PVP epics, reputation epics, crafted epics, and so forth and so on.

[SleazyC]

On my server the first Rag kills starting roll in about 2 months ago, which is very behind ball. Like zircon said most people were decked out in FR gear when they downed him. I know the first Horde guild to down him was rocking 200-300 FR depending on each person. So far my guild is mainly wearing 1-2 craftables from TB and we have got him down to about 60ish on our best attempt. It all is an experience game really. The fight seems to be a lot about positioning so on nights where we are killing Garr we usually run over to the area where Rag is fought and practice positioning for a good 30-45 minutes. Don't know if it helps but it wouldn't hurt to make sure everyone knows where they are going,

[Russell Cox]

Nah, we have some items per person from Azuregos and Lord Kazzak (we dominated the spawns for about 4 months) and we DO have Molten Core gear, but there's not a lot of equipment per person. I'd say, on average, we've got 4 epics per person on JUICE and that's including all slots and PvP rewards as well (Alterac, Arathi, etc.). A lot of our best people are still in blues. We also have close to 90 people altogether in the guild as well.

Try the Greater Fire Protection pots (1 Crystal Vial, 1 Elemental Fire, 1 Dreamfoil); they're cheap, the mats are easy to get (best place for Elemental Fire are the Burning Exiles in Arathi Highlands, Dreamfoil = Un'Goro) and most people will use 2-3 per Ragnaros attempt. That's 7K absorbed *PER PERSON* on the raids. And yes, it absorbs the lava bursts as well, and if you don't get hit by his RSTS (BY FIRE BE PURGED!) that's usually 3 bursts on average you'll absorb per pot. This alleviates a lot of aggro from the healers and they can in turn put DPS on Ragnaros as well with wands. If your MT doesn't have problems holding hate and ranged DPS don't get a tons of bursts (crits from mages, Shadowbolt crits, etc.) then that basically means you won't really need heals until 1:30-2:00 into the fight -- that's a LONG time to be DPSing and a shitton of mana saved by not having to heal.

The only advice I can really give, without being there in person, is that the MT engages Ragnaros for 5 seconds, 2nd MT engages and after 5 more seconds everyone else engages and go full-throttle without being fucking retarded (you know what I mean). There are three 'key' places you can stand where the half-walls are on the C-Island; Usually we put MTs + their 4-6 healers on the one closest to Ragnaros, groups 1-4 spread out along one wall, groups 5-8 on the other, and melee stand close to Rangaros, then just jump/swim through the short lava to land at his back to cut-time and start engaging when it's called.

[Emanon]

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ft/2005/ft051009.gif

[suzumebachi]

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ft/2005/ft051009.gif

nice.

anyways i got my computer back up and running. grinding has become severely painful at level 47. and i officially hate ZF now after failing 3 times in a row at the executioner troll zerg. i think that whole encounter is bugged, because there is literally an endless supply of those damn trolls. we can hold em off for 10 minutes or so, but eventually all the NPCs will die and the trolls will break through and begin slaughtering us. no matter how many you kill, more spawn to take their place. we even killed one of the bosses (Nekrum Gutchewer or something he's called) and HE respawned seconds after. we also killed the shadowpriest and his corpse disappeared immediately afterwards so we couldn't loot it. bugged all to hell.

[zircon]

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ft/2005/ft051009.gif

nice.

anyways i got my computer back up and running. grinding has become severely painful at level 47. and i officially hate ZF now after failing 3 times in a row at the executioner troll zerg. i think that whole encounter is bugged, because there is literally an endless supply of those damn trolls. we can hold em off for 10 minutes or so, but eventually all the NPCs will die and the trolls will break through and begin slaughtering us. no matter how many you kill, more spawn to take their place. we even killed one of the bosses (Nekrum Gutchewer or something he's called) and HE respawned seconds after. we also killed the shadowpriest and his corpse disappeared immediately afterwards so we couldn't loot it. bugged all to hell.

It is a 10 minute encounter with about 100 trolls. But if the NPCs died, you fucked up. They can't die.

[Russell Cox]

Sounds like someone was on the steps of the temple, so the monsters never took their 'breaks' between waves.

[suzumebachi]

no, we were behind the NPCs, trying to do as much AoE as we could. they came in waves of 4 or 5 for the first minute or so, but after that it was just a complete zerg.

[suzumebachi]

yeah i don't know anybody who's done it since the latest patch. like i said even the bosses were respawning after we killed them.

[Russell Cox]

no, we were behind the NPCs, trying to do as much AoE as we could. they came in waves of 4 or 5 for the first minute or so, but after that it was just a complete zerg.

If you're behind the NPCs and you're all dying then something's wrong. The NPCs are elite, and 99% of the monsters in the waves are NOT, so you're essentially wiping to 4-5 non-elites at a time. At most you'll see 5 elites throughout the entire encounter (not including the 'boss' at the end of the runs).

AoE is never the answer in WoW unless it's a *finite* group of monsters in a solid pack -- the ZF event is a staggered spawn cycle. Have the tank focus on one monster at a time, and everyone else assist him (with an " /assist PlayerName Here " macro); it's required later on in the game so people may as well start getting used to it in Zul'Farrak.

The NPCs will heal themselves occassionally as well as heal your team, but still focus on keeping them alive mostly otherwise the quest at the bottom is null and void.

[GGX_Anji]

Anyone considered forming an OCR guild?

[zircon]

Eh. Most people here are in established, high-level guilds on other servers.

Btw, PATCH DAY! Lots of cool new stuff. Can't wait.

[Dunnowhathuh]

Bah, can't connect. Guess they still messing around with the servers for the patch. Took me 3 hrs to get that patch done, good old dial-up.