Total lack of inspiration.

[zircon]

I am at my wit's end. I have literally gone for months without being able to write an original song from scratch (not counting songs I've done for a soundtrack, which I do not count). I have a veritable graveyard of over 20-25 project files of failed songs and WIPs. The last song I wrote was a short original around December and before that the last thing I did was my 2nd CD, which was finished in June. I've tried everything. I've tried taking a break, listening to different kinds of music, playing around on my keyboard, studying theory, taking walks and looking at the scenery, etc.. NOTHING WORKS.

It feels like I'm just incapable of creating any new music at all, as if I already reached my peak and am now already at the bottom. It's the worst feeling in the world.

Does anyone - preferably, someone who writes electronic music in the same kind of style that I do - have any suggestions for remedying this situation? I think I'm going to go insane if I have to spend another day twiddling my thumbs and messing around on my keyboard because I have no song ideas..

[SirRus]

ah, I remember reading a very similar post on SGX's website last year... I'm sorry to hear you're in a slump, and I do hope Danny posts in here with his thoughts from when he felt the same way. Clearly, he is dong much much better these days.

[ekm]

I always find that digging out a new scale or two to learn gets the juices flowing nicely.

[andyjayne]

I often get monthly periods of music increativity and it takes a while to get back into things. What normally does it for me is spending some of my time on other creative things like art. I find, personally, that if I just sit down without an idea other than to make a song more often than not it worsens the situation. Really the best thing is to get the idea. It feels kind of awkward trying to explain this to someone with much better talent in this area but we're all out for the music. The most increative period of time for me, from starting, was probably the summer because I was busy with other things. I didn't get it back when I tried to start, it was only when people started suggesting things to me and asking for collabs, showing me their work and other things.

Another personal thing is that I get bored with styles of music quickly, I set out to create a similar song to previously and get bored. As the breaks didn't work for you try making something that you're not accustomed to. Try creating less listenable music, or less electronic ideas. Whilst this is a break from the electronic music that you normally make it's not a break from music. You could find some techniques that you want to incorporate in your own music.

Finally if you hear something that really impresses you then try and replicate the sound. Then try and experiment with it or try making things in that style, even if they don't turn out well (which isn't as bad as it seems, you don't have to listen to the song after - it's practice).

Again, this is all personal really but I hope some of these suggestions are useful. I'm much newer to using computers for music so it may just be because I'm so early on that these techniques work.

Best of luck to you man, look forward to hearing some of your productions.

[Chavous]

Hey, it happens to the best of us, man. I have had a couple months like that, also. I know the feeling: you start thinking like "If I'm not good at this anymore, what can I do with my life?" as well as other things. It's horrible.

The best thing to do it be patient becasue it will pass. But another thing to do is to force yourself through completing a song (it will help to clear your mind after you finish).

Good luck.

[zircon]

I appreciate your suggestions, however..

I often get monthly periods of music increativity and it takes a while to get back into things. What normally does it for me is spending some of my time on other creative things like art.

Unfortunately I have no other creative talents.

I find, personally, that if I just sit down without an idea other than to make a song more often than not it worsens the situation. Really the best thing is to get the idea. It feels kind of awkward trying to explain this to someone with much better talent in this area but we're all out for the music.

Out of maybe 40-50 songs I've written (counting video game soundtracks) I've had an idea for them beforehand maybe.. 5% of the time. I almost NEVER have song ideas. All of Impulse Prime was written on the spot. I stared at my blank FL6 screen until I was inspired to write something. It's extremely rare that I think of a melody or chord progression in my head, and even more rare that it sounds good.

Another personal thing is that I get bored with styles of music quickly, I set out to create a similar song to previously and get bored. As the breaks didn't work for you try making something that you're not accustomed to.

Since my last original song I've done about six or seven songs in totally different styles (remixes, game soundtrack, music for radio) However I don't get a lot of enjoyment out of them because I don't enjoy those genres as much.

Try creating less listenable music, or less electronic ideas. Whilst this is a break from the electronic music that you normally make it's not a break from music. You could find some techniques that you want to incorporate in your own music.

This is not a bad idea but I wouldn't even know where to start without having some sort of direction given to me.

Finally if you hear something that really impresses you then try and replicate the sound. Then try and experiment with it or making things in that style, even if they don't turn out well (which isn't as bad as it seems, you don't have to listen to the song after - it's practice).

I do this on a regular basis.. I have probably hundreds upon hundreds of dead projects, many of which are me ripping off some big name artists. I've obsessive when it comes to that kind of thing and I've gotten down a lot of the styles perfectly. I don't release these clips of course because there's no point.. I didn't write them.

Again, this is all personal really but I hope some of these suggestions are useful. I'm much newer to using computers for music so it may just be because I'm so early on that these techniques work.

Best of luck to you man, look forward to hearing some of your productions.

Again, thank you.

The best thing to do it be patient becasue it will pass. But another thing to do is to force yourself through completing a song (it will help to clear your mind after you finish).

Arguably this is something I've had for over 8 months now. The one original electronic song I was able to write (Throwdown) was sort of a one-of-a-kind thing and a fluke more than anything else. I have absolutely not been able to do anything since and I have been feeling steadily worse about it.

I have also tried forcing myself to complete a song but it hasn't worked. All I have are lots of ultra-crappy WIPs to show for it. They go straight to the recycle bin.

[Kanjika]

ITS HORRIBLE. I'm having the same thing right now. I can write little things, or melodies but i end up saying "this sucks" or it just doesn't go anywhere. I'm really hoping it will just pass but it doesn't feel like it ever will. It's not even a lack of inspiration, i can hear a song perfectly in my head. I just don't seem to have the ability to write it down properly. It just sounds like ass....

[zircon]

I'd give anything to be in your position. At least you have the song in your head. That just means it's a matter of practice - transferring the ideas you have on to paper or into your sequencer. That's the easy part. But there's nothing you can do when you don't have any ideas to begin with.

[Kanjika]

Usually my ideas come out of the blue, or from just messing with stuff. I just open up some samples or a preset and write stuff down until one good idea gets things going.

Don't think you have alot of crap WIPs either. Lately i have had FLP files everywhere, on my desktop, in tons of folders, and all the files are named something like "dfghdfkjdfkkk vnbnhj". All of them are crap.

[S.Ave]

I have the same problem regularly on the guitar. I'll be trying to write something creative, and nothing will happen.

I have heard all kinds of remedies, usually none of them worked.
I feel that a lack of creativity is caused by a lack of variety somewhere in your life.

Theres a couple things I normally do to get some ideas:

Change my desktop background (usually something completely different than i had. Or make one)

Try some new foods (I tried some indian food. Yum! Got me writing a song in no time. although it wasn't etnic music at all, but it made me feel pretty good.)

Clean my room while listening to piano arrangements (I play alot of neo-classical and heavey metal and 'metalcore', so piano arragement sorta give me some variety away from my regluar instruments. I usually make up my own little melodies to what they're playing.); when cleaning my room, I always find things from the past that give me some ideas.

Listen to a new band from a style I like (purevolume.com <--good site for that)

Listen to a new band from a style I hate (purevolume is also a good site for this. o.o;)

Playing a new videogame is always a good way to settle your nerves. RPG's are supreme ways to get some ideas. There is so much music in their scores, that it'll take a hold of you. =)

Well, thats all I can think of. You guys prolly think i'm a bozo. XD

[Catlein]

Immerse yourself in the subtleties of nature. :D

[OverCoat]

Have you tried looking at one of Hemo's paintings? :)

[andyjayne]

I feel that a lack of creativity is caused by a lack of variety somewhere in your life.
Whilst this would be pretty logical I can only pinpoint a few changes in my life that made an impact on my music. My job has had an impact recently, after sitting at a monitor all day motivation to get behind the computer screen is harder to get, but here I am. Also when I decided to leave university for another year that made a pretty big impact. Infact the latter did with inspiration whereas the former is just an interference.

I just spoke to one of my friends, a pretty good artist and poet, she said that she gets the same thing - when it affects her she does more physical exercise and tires herself out physically for a week or so. Then when she recovers she seems to be creative again for another week or so, on and off. I don't see how it'd work but any suggestions help. It explained a few things about how some weeks she's a complete hermit and the other she's pestering me to go out.

Edit:
Out of maybe 40-50 songs I've written (counting video game soundtracks) I've had an idea for them beforehand maybe.. 5% of the time. I almost NEVER have song ideas. All of Impulse Prime was written on the spot. I stared at my blank FL6 screen until I was inspired to write something. It's extremely rare that I think of a melody or chord progression in my head, and even more rare that it sounds good.
To each his own, I guess. I get bored at work and so try and plan it out before I get home. I just used to sit down and write it how it came, before, but the chord progressions were always too simple for my liking.

[sgx]

ah, I remember reading a very similar post on SGX's website last year... I'm sorry to hear you're in a slump, and I do hope Danny posts in here with his thoughts from when he felt the same way. Clearly, he is dong much much better these days.

Ooh I forgot about that one. That was a pretty minor slump for me. It wasn't a big deal, but I was a bit bugged out because I wasn't getting anywhere with some of the visual design things I wanted to be doing (logo, new website....which are all finally complete and I am pretty happy with em) in addition to the music. Sometimes having regular listeners is a curse because you'll get aims or emails asking "when's the next track coming out??????" and then you feel obligated to get moving on something. I HATE feeling like music is my job (very large reason I am not seriously pursuing it as a career). I'd rather let the creative juices flow out than be squeezed out. The visual stuff however, is my second favorite art, so I'm perfectly fine whoring my visual ideas out for money :).

Usually to get out of a music-writing slump, taking a break and listening to new music is what does it for me. You said you already tried that though.

Experimenting with new sounds or effects can often spur some excitement. I can just get one kickass beat going, or a really nice string pad, or just some kind of neat hook to build a song around and that will get things moving. Zirc, I'd say maybe grab a new vsti or sample package to play around in, but you've got an IMMENSE arsenal already...maybe go back to ones you haven't fooled with much.

I generally try to make every song I make pretty distinct from the previous ones. Listeners might think some are similar, but at least to me, even if they have a similar make up of styles of beats, instruments and whatnot, they all usually give me really different feelings and emotions, and they make me see different colors and shapes in my head (I sound like a hippy). I think if I tried to re-use my successful ideas to make say, an all trance album, or all bigbeat, or all ambient album, I'd be dead within 3 tracks.

So maybe try something different, not necessarily by genre, but by 'attitude' if you know what I mean.

Can you play guitar? Learn guitar. Maybe you can use it in your music. If not, you'll get some experience with chords and styles you may not have thought up looking at a piano roll.

I might have more ideas/thoughts later. Not sure if that was helpful or not.

[Argle]

Maybe take a break for awhile, mate. Sounds like you're pushing yourself too hard... trying to force something from nothing.

I haven't had a slump in awhile, but when I did nothing really worked. I just had to ride it out.

edit: oh, you already said you took a break. Maybe a longer one? :wink:

[OverCoat]

Wait a second.

Hold on...

Do you hear that?

It's the sound of a compo beckoning

>_>

Set aside an hour sometime this week and we'll try to get CompoST 54 running :)

[zircon]

Maybe take a break for awhile, mate. Sounds like you're pushing yourself too hard... trying to force something from nothing.

I haven't had a slump in awhile, but when I did nothing really worked. I just had to ride it out.

edit: oh, you already said you took a break. Maybe a longer one? :wink:

I dunno, breaks of months at a time are long enough for me. I feel pretty useless when I'm not writing music anyway.

sgx; no, I don't play guitar. I might try that.

[Kanjika]

Wait a second.

Hold on...

Do you hear that?

It's the sound of a compo beckoning

>_>

Set aside an hour sometime this week and we'll try to get CompoST 54 running :)

Screw that do another OVGMC. I always try to enyer those :)

[Catlein]

Wait a second.

Hold on...

Do you hear that?

It's the sound of a compo beckoning

>_>

Set aside an hour sometime this week and we'll try to get CompoST 54 running :)

I will join and destroy all who oppose me. D:

[the_nihilist]

Do drugs?

[Splunkle]

I find that immersing myself in others non-musical art helps me a lot. Stories, Pictures and stuff tends to inspire me. Hell, webcomcis inspire me. No idea if it will work for you, but maybe it will.

Also, SGX, you mentioned that music gives you shapes and colours in your mind or somesuch. You may be one of hte lucky people with synathesia (I think that is how it is spelt). It means "crossed senses" in greek or something, people who have it associate things to do with one sense - like colour and shapes, which are part of the vision - with things to do with another sense - like music, which is aural. My sister, for example associates colour with music and words. While it is a mental condition, it isn't anything bad; your brain isn't going to explode or anything. But you might want to mention it to your doctor or soemthing, because you might be able to score some money as a research subject or something.

Apologies to Zirc for derailing his thread.

[SirRus]

Do drugs?

haha, if all else fails. or perhaps even as a primary weapon in your IMMENSE arsenal.

[zircon]

I find that immersing myself in others non-musical art helps me a lot. Stories, Pictures and stuff tends to inspire me. Hell, webcomcis inspire me. No idea if it will work for you, but maybe it will.

A lot of things inspire me in the sense of "Wow, that's beautiful" - but nothing leads me to actual notes in the sequencer. I don't look at art and suddenly hear the melody "A - B - C - B - F - E" (from good morning, by tefnek btw). I wish that were the case.

ps. No, I am not going to do drugs. Ever.

[Dafydd]

I have no problems getting the music to pop up in my head - it's getting around to writing it down that's my issue. I lack the inspiration to actively do anything at all. And typing on this keyboard is hardly an active... activity. It's just flushing my thoughts out into my hands. Unfortunately, I'm not as proficient with the musical keyboard as with the ordinary one.

I usually have get tons of music in my head when I'm depressed, as in, having had a fight with my gf or the likes. Doesn't happen when I'm bored. The inspiration comes from being blue. I once read the definition of poo to be "the solid byproduct of digestion". When I get around to writing down all those songs that are trapped in my head, I'll call the album "the solid byproduct of depression". Because that's what they are. I can look back at songs I made when I was 12. They are, often, of a rather high professional level, but what's more important, they are full of life and fun.

I envy myself for being able to create such inspired and lively songs, something I am no longer able to. Everything I make now is sad and dark. Some of the songs that pop up in my mind have such great hit potential that I question their origins; did I really make this myself? But they always carry traces of the depression from where they come. Not saying this is a bad thing, but it's strange. Happiness never gives me that kind of inspiration.

Also, trying to make music by forcing it out is one of the worst things I've ever had to do. I was dumb enough to sign up for a class in high school where I was to compose a few songs over a full year, making small progress all the time. I finished it the night before deadline, and failed the class. I just couldn't do it earlier than that. The inspiration came out of the stress to make something. I suppose sometimes, you have to force yourself into creating something. But music being what it is, I think I can indulge myself with calling myself an artist, and one whose creation can not be forced. If it is, it is no longer art, but something else. Something less.

Another problem is that the inspiration, when it comes, never stays for long. I guess this means I'm a happy person in general, but I think I'm meant to be unhappy and depressed. I feel more like myself that way. And I make better music that way. Anyway, you gotta catch those few times when the inspiration comes. Don't force it, but exploit it.

[-RK-]

Since everyone seems to be talking about how they get out of their slumps, I guess I'll share how I get out of mine.

When I get into a slump, I listen to other kinds of music, like you said you already tried. Often though, I just try to learn to play those songs. After figuring out how to play one song (all of this on the piano btw), you improvise. This leads you to a new song, be it of your creation or one you just had in your head and figured out again. Then you improvise some more. You work at it and work at it until you think it's just fucking hopeless. You've been improvising for days, and nothing has come of it yet. Then you stumble upon a few progressions that fit together well. Then that breeds. And again. And again. Then it all fits together. Then you rush to the sequencer and play those notes in on any basic instrument, so you know where all your melodies and harmonies are. Then you add the beat, bass, whatever. You design your sounds. And then the rest is just all the peices you thought you'd never find falling into place.

You've probably heard this a million times before, but music is all about emotions. I think it takes a certain degree of humility to write music. If you begin thinking that you've outdone yourself, or that you've ever created a good song, than you might just lose sight of what drove you to start creating in the first place. Once you feel like improving your craft even more, or finding better ways to convey what your feeling, that's when true magic happens.

And sometimes you just have to sit and write forever. Write something generic, but FINISH it. It could have the worst ending ever, but just finish it. I find that finishing songs is kind of like closure, it allows you to move onto the next miserable failure with a clear head. :lol:

Just my two cents on how to get out of those crappy musical blocks. Honestly, it's just hard work and feeling. That's all it takes. Whoever said writing music was easy is a fucking moron. Just keep at it. That's how ya do it. :wink:

[zircon]

I can't bring myself to finish a lot of the garbage that I've worked on. eg

www.zirconstudios.com/Enlightened.mp3

Crap.

www.zirconstudios.com/Huge%20Beat.mp3

Crap.

www.zirconstudios.com/wanderer.mp3

Crap.

www.zirconstudios.com/Surf.mp3

Crap.

www.zirconstudios.com/gruv.mp3

Crap.

www.zirconstudios.com/Synthscape.mp3

Total crap.

I've tried listening to music, improvising, etc. That did not work.

[Tyler Heath]

you said something about not digressing into other genres because you're not very good at it, right?

why not just take a while off from electronic-style stuff and learn a new genre? I mean, it couldn't hurt to expand your skill set, and it could just be the right kind of break you need to get back into your groove.

[zircon]

you said something about not digressing into other genres because you're not very good at it, right?

why not just take a while off from electronic-style stuff and learn a new genre? I mean, it couldn't hurt to expand your skill set, and it could just be the right kind of break you need to get back into your groove.

I did Subterranean Opus, Lover Reef, and four songs for an orchestral/ethnic video game soundtrack in between my last original electronic piece and now. While I got some enjoyment out of that, those things are not my main interest. You might as well have told Johnny Cash to do something different than country. Electronica is what I want to do. I have worked in (and continue to work in) many different genres but the only thing that makes me truly happy is electronic music - creating good examples of it, anyway.

[sgx]

Maybe try remixing your failed stuff? Bounce it to audio loops, chop it up, reverse it, slice, etc. Combine a bunch of the failed stuff together, add things on top. Do something weird you haven't done before.

[zircon]

The problem is not in creating small component parts. As you can hear with the above examples, I am quite capable of creating very basic synthlines and grooves. Anything past that I have been unable to do. If I were able to write even the simplest of hooks or melodies I would not have writer's block. Even 'remix' style music requires some sort of motif or building block to go off of.

In other words, if I only have garbage available to me, the only thing that will come out is garbage. Song production 101 :(

[Ichitootah]

Wow. I always thought, when I had slumps, "when I get as good as all those judges and stuff, let the music flow. I can't possibly release anything bad or get stuck once I'm that good."

But I guess I was wrong. Eh, I dunno. Work with common chord progressions, make simple, catchy stuff with good production that will sound good no matter what, may kind of get the juices flowing. Really though, I bet you'll work through it with time soon enough.

[Splunkle]

I find that immersing myself in others non-musical art helps me a lot. Stories, Pictures and stuff tends to inspire me. Hell, webcomcis inspire me. No idea if it will work for you, but maybe it will.

A lot of things inspire me in the sense of "Wow, that's beautiful" - but nothing leads me to actual notes in the sequencer. I don't look at art and suddenly hear the melody "A - B - C - B - F - E" (from good morning, by tefnek btw). I wish that were the case.

Interesting. I must say, with me its not like the notes pop into my head, but they get me thinking. Its when I am reflecting on something that the music comes. Even then, often it is only vauge ideas, like wanting a certain bit of the song to sound dark, while another needs to suggest water dripping. Its then up to knowing what sounds dark, and what sounds like water dripping, and put that in the song.

So I suppose its not like the art inspires we to write music directly - its more like it gives me some sort of emotional framework to work with, which in turn gives my muse something to work with.

I don't know. Muses are fickle things, and sometimes when they go away they take a while to come back. It is a damn shame that someone as excellent as you had your muse go all tempremental on you. A damn shame.

[Xelebes]

Do not worry zirc, I've been in a similar rut myself.

[sgx]

Ehm, those demos were all pretty cool. I have no idea where your problem is :). Do you ever just jam along with your songs? Maybe some sort of less linear sequencing methods are in order...like Ableton Live or something.

[suzumebachi]

i had like a year and a half long drought. it sucked. immensely. i find that practicing with my band helps a lot, but now that everyone's in school/at work/married we rarely find time to jam out anymore. but when we do, it really does help get you motivated to do something.

though i've practically given up on writing anything by mouse anymore. i just can't do it. i'll have something in my head, but when i actually get it down, it sounds very different. this is where it helps to know an instrument. so when something does pop into my head, i can play it on piano or guitar and work from there.

but i definately know how much it sucks to have musician's block. :(

[V___]

Improvisation has always helped me out. When i was stuck for a while, i pulled up a sampler, attached as many random sounds to it as possible, and then played along to a semi-cool song in the background. It didnt sound good, but it got my head out of a linear mindframe, which helped alot. Also opening old sparse mixes and humming a improvised melody along get me thinking differently.

I also tried mixing up classics... i had a midi of 'Mars' i was working on to improve my sample control (which was failing) so i changed some brass sounds to this thin synth, and shifted its pitch down a tone. It sounded funny, so i changed other instruments around, either by attaching effects or just their performance style (ie arco to marc). It was still recognisable but its was different (added a swing backbeat after that... XD damn it was bad)

Musics always been expression to me, and people dont always work within certain logical patterns and styles. Sometimes its good to detach from harmonies and structure and everything that you get taught, and just make something because thats what you feel, as cheesy as that sounds.

Alternitvly, mabey you just need a new surrounding for a bit... go somewhere new, meet with someone new, experience something unusual, even just for a weekend.

[Legion303]

I have a veritable graveyard of over 20-25 project files of failed songs and WIPs.

I've got about 60-70 of those song orphans, and I think soc has an assload as well. Sometimes what gives me inspiration is when I get a new VST and play around with the settings, then have to throw some drums in to make it sound better...then a track pops out. Hit up KVR and grab any instruments/demos you can get your hands on to see if that method works for you.

-steve

PS: I've gone back to old songs maybe 3-4 times now and ended up completing them just by swapping instruments out and liking the sound better.

Edit: I've also never "allowed" myself to have musician's block, even if all I was churning out was utter shit. Work on 2 or 3 songs at a time. Force yourself to make a song using nothing but FL default samples and presets, but try to make it sound good enough that people won't say "default FL, yo!" Go find some drum tablature and steal it, building old songs into new electronica (one of my favorite original songs is built entirely around James Brown's "Cold Sweat" drum tab). Download a tracker and make a song or two with that instead of FL. Don't be afraid to get out of a rut and do things differently. Replace all your drum samples with Folgers Crystals...er, I mean random sound files. Remix older songs of yours that you do like (I'm doing this right now with one). Get a tape recorder and make your own weird samples, then use them. Do a remix comprised entirely of samples of you hitting your desk, rattling silverware in a glass, dragging heavy shit across the rug, and whacking metal objects together.

If you don't find something inspiring in that pile of stuff, become a monk and renounce technology. :P

[tgfoo]

If you don't find something inspiring in that pile of stuff, become a monk and renounce technology. :P

That's what I'm talking about. Shave your head and wear one of those goofy orange robes. :lol:

But seriously, there are a lot of good suggestions in here. Personally, when I have no ideas to work with, I like listening to music (in various styles) or just jamming on an instrument for a while. Usually I'll come across a couple melodies or chord progressions that just click with me... which usually all end up in songs that I never really "finish" :)

I once made a thread similar to this in another forum. I got a lot of encouraging posts and suggestions like you've gotten. Probably the most interesting suggestion I got was somebody told me to play chess. Didn't really work for me as I am really bad at chess (I lost to my computers chess game's AI in 7 turns, yes, 7 turns.... while it was on the 2nd easiest diffuculty setting :oops: ) But hey, it works for some people, and I'm sure you'll find something that works for you.

[zircon]

Ehm, those demos were all pretty cool. I have no idea where your problem is :). Do you ever just jam along with your songs? Maybe some sort of less linear sequencing methods are in order...like Ableton Live or something.

Yeah, I jam along all the time, but nothing usable comes out of them. Again the difficulty is not in creating little clips - it's that I'll complete as much as I did in those demos and hit a dead end. Any additional work I try to force makes them even worse. It's infuriating.

A different sequencer is something I'm considering, but I do not have the money to purchase more software right now.



I've got about 60-70 of those song orphans, and I think soc has an assload as well. Sometimes what gives me inspiration is when I get a new VST and play around with the settings, then have to throw some drums in to make it sound better...then a track pops out. Hit up KVR and grab any instruments/demos you can get your hands on to see if that method works for you.

Considering how many VSTs and sample CDs I already have.. I can assure you I've tried this method and it doesn't work at all. The "Enlightened" demo came out of Sytrus presets, for example, but that's all I was able to write. I ran out of ideas.

Improvisation has always helped me out. When i was stuck for a while, i pulled up a sampler, attached as many random sounds to it as possible, and then played along to a semi-cool song in the background. It didnt sound good, but it got my head out of a linear mindframe, which helped alot. Also opening old sparse mixes and humming a improvised melody along get me thinking differently.

This is something I've also tried. I'll load up some loops or hits in something like Battery 2 or Stylus RMX and just kind of jam or play along to songs in Winamp. However, this has never given me any song ideas. I've even tried using non-traditional sounds as you suggested. For example, over the weekend I started this new project. I heard a Stylus RMX chopped guitar loop that I thought sounded cool, then replicated that progression and tone with Lyrical Distortion samples. I tweaked that a bit and spent some time getting the guitar sound down that I wanted. Then I loaded up about 20-25 'weird' drum samples and layered some patterns, creating an interesting drum beat which I then combined with RMX material. Then I sat there for the rest of the day with no ideas of what to do with that. And the next day.

Alternitvly, mabey you just need a new surrounding for a bit... go somewhere new, meet with someone new, experience something unusual, even just for a weekend.

This is a great idea. Unfortunately, I'm in college (so I don't have time to go anywhere), I don't have a car, I don't have much money, and I live in the middle of a city that I'm unfamiliar with so I wouldn't know where to go anyway.

though i've practically given up on writing anything by mouse anymore. i just can't do it. i'll have something in my head, but when i actually get it down, it sounds very different. this is where it helps to know an instrument. so when something does pop into my head, i can play it on piano or guitar and work from there.

I actually did try working with keyboard input, and came up with a cool <1m jazz piece (which, of course, I got stumped on). However I can't rely on keyboard input for two reasons. One is that I only have a synth-action 32 key controller. I am looking to get a new one but I don't have the money right now (and I might not even have the space). Two is that my projects get very, VERY CPU intensive very fast. I usually use upwards of 100 effects and tons of VSTs to get the exact sounds I want, forcing me to use latencies of 50+ MS simply to get proper playback.

Thank you for all the suggestions everyone, even if I've already tried most of them :(

[DDRage]

or try reading a book, it sometimes works. in some scenes i can even imagine the mood and the ambiance and this kicks up the creative bug inside of me

[S.Ave]

I know as a guitar player, reading books is a very useful way to expand creativity.

Fantasy Books are good. =)

Someone recommended the Sword of Truth Series to me once, but I haven't gotten around to it. (that was like 2 years ago) =o

[andyjayne]

Alternitvly, mabey you just need a new surrounding for a bit... go somewhere new, meet with someone new, experience something unusual, even just for a weekend.
This is a great idea. Unfortunately, I'm in college (so I don't have time to go anywhere), I don't have a car, I don't have much money, and I live in the middle of a city that I'm unfamiliar with so I wouldn't know where to go anyway.
Then try and make new friends! Make friends that know the city or places that you don't, go out of your way to be friendly (without seeming like a jerk).

One thing I can recommend after listening to those demos is change, what I tend to do when I get to a part that I'm stuck is just build on the same thing. It's not a good idea! Recently I discovered just adding a simple fill and new chord progression can make the song much more interesting. One thing I have been negating in electronic music is standards from other music, structure for example. Almost all of my music is just built around one idea. More recently I've been trying to incorporate better structure into my music. I recall you having said in the past that you hadn't been taught any music theory. If you read up on a little about the theory of music or even just books concerning music itself it can sometimes give you ideas.

If you are really stuck for ideas try working on something with someone else at a slow pace. If you get stuck they can take over and vice versa. I've never tried this method, but it seems pretty logical as one part you write can inspire the next part the other person writes and likewise.

I'm finding this thread pretty interesting reading about how so many people get this sort of thing and what helps overcome it. There obviously isn't one answer, you just need to spark and just simply having a break won't help unless something happens in that time. I reckon that the best idea would to be think lightly of it instead of worrying about not being able to make music.

[zircon]

I would say that I have a pretty good grasp of proper arrangement and structure - as you can hear by listening to my "good" originals and remixes. The problem, once again, is getting to the point where I have enough material to actually create a song. A 1 measure drumloop and lame synth riff is not enough.

Working with someone else? Yeah, I've always wanted to do that. Working with tefnek is a blast, every time. However everyone is pretty much too busy and I can't expect someone to be able to sit down and work with me whenever I feel like writing a song (which is all day, every day).

I recall you having said in the past that you hadn't been taught any music theory. If you read up on a little about the theory of music or even just books concerning music itself it can sometimes give you ideas.

This is no longer the case. I am studying music at Drexel University and traditional music theory has been in my schedule every term so far. It's fascinating, but not helpful to what I'm trying to do here.

[Chavous]

Then get off your computer. I'm serious. Get off the computer for a week or more (or be on the least amount possible).

[Cyan]

Well, i would suggest learning to play as much (different) songs as possible. Both gamemusic (midi) and "real" music (use sheetmusic and/or tabs) will do. I suggest you listen to very much music as well. Since the electronica-genre is quite big, there should be a lot of stuff to explore.

This is at least what works best for me. When I'm creating original-music, the inspiration comes from something I've listened to or/and recently played myself. Sometimes it's a whole bunch of stuff throwed together, which mixed up, makes my own song. If you listen to a whole bunch of different music, you can't really tell where the inspiration comes from, it's just there.

Also, being a band-member is a GREAT way to get inspiration. Don't think I need to explain why. I play piano/keyboard/synth in a pop/rock band, and I'm makin my own electronic music as well, it works really good.

[Chavous]

Wow. I always thought, when I had slumps, "when I get as good as all those judges and stuff, let the music flow. I can't possibly release anything bad or get stuck once I'm that good."

That's what I thought too.

[zircon]

Then get off your computer. I'm serious. Get off the computer for a week or more (or be on the least amount possible).

Since Impulse Prime was released I've taken two breaks to go on vacation with my family. While I sometimes have musical ideas, by the time I return, they're all gone. I doubt that I could take a week long break here at Drexel from the computer as it's my only form of entertainment and more or less my only form of social contact.

[analoq]

edit: nevermind. forget it.

[-RK-]

just have fun!

There we go. That's the answer!

And, dont discount any of the methods because you've TRIED them. Just go back to a time when you've had fun with a music, and relive those moments. If something doesnt work the first time you try it, go do something different, but dont forget to try again. Just have fun with music. You dont have to be the best all the time. Sometimes its just fun to make crap songs, makes the great ones even greater.

[zircon]

just have fun!

There we go. That's the answer!

And, dont discount any of the methods because you've TRIED them. Just go back to a time when you've had fun with a music, and relive those moments. If something doesnt work the first time you try it, go do something different, but dont forget to try again. Just have fun with music. You dont have to be the best all the time. Sometimes its just fun to make crap songs, makes the great ones even greater.

I don't think I've implied anywhere that I don't have fun with music. It's just that the amount of enjoyment I get out of tooling around on my keyboard (what I've been doing for the last hour) is significantly less than the veritable seratonin FLOOD that I get when I complete a great original work. Seriously - after I finished Impulse Prime, I was walking on air. I don't think any bad news could have possibly brought down my incredible level of happiness that I got from completing it and getting the first positive reviews.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't really get any lasting "fun" out of music unless I'm (1) writing great songs and (2) people are listening to and enjoying said songs.

you are getting into a dangerous cycle. if making music becomes a frustrating processes, then you will make fewer attempts to do so. and each time you try it will become more frustrating. eventually your days of making music will be over. this is how it happens.

I pretty much make constant attempts to create music regardless of how frustrating it is. Like I said, this is pretty much my life, it's what I'm here at college to study, it's my only hobby and my only form of entertainment.

When I create a bad song, it's just that - a bad song. I get no pride out of that, just like I get no pride or enjoyment out of creating those demos that I posted earlier.

[Synth]

I know this isn't the answer your looking for. But maybe you don't like writing music anymore.

[analoq]

well, that's all i had for you andrew.
there's 4 pages of people trying to help you in this thread and you've pooh-poohed most everything.

perhaps there are no solutions for you. 8O

[zircon]

well, that's all i had for you andrew.
there's 4 pages of people trying to help you in this thread and you've pooh-poohed most everything.

perhaps there are no solutions for you. 8O

Well, what do you expect me to say? I'm not going to lie and tell people that I haven't tried a solution when I already have. There's no point in ramming my head into a brick wall. I am posting here because, as I said, I'm at my wit's end. I was aware that I had writer's block since 7-8 months ago and was already talking to many people outside of these forums about it. Thus, I've already gone through a number of attempted solutions, including many, many more that were not mentioned here. This is a final, desperate attempt on my part.

[abg]

Yeah, I jam along all the time, but nothing usable comes out of them. Again the difficulty is not in creating little clips - it's that I'll complete as much as I did in those demos and hit a dead end. Any additional work I try to force makes them even worse. It's infuriating.


Hey, if this is in fact what's happening then I can easily relate, as the same thing used to happen to me all the time. I found a solution for that problem though and haven't had any trouble since, so hey maybe it'll work for you?

What I do now is when I have an idea for a project, a "clip", I'll program all the neccessary patterns in FL, and then program the absolute climax of the song in the playlist. This usually gives me a good idea how to enter and exit the climax, and from there the rest of the song just falls into place (unless of course the climax ends up sounding terribly dull, but that usually isn't the case. And if it is, well, you don't feel bad abandoning it)

Also, if I'm having trouble with ideas in one art I start looking into the other ones. I saw you said elsewhere in this thread that music is your only art, but I'm willing to bet that a creative person like yourself could easily pick up another craft. Is there anything that's interested you? Photography, painting, photoshopping? (Yes, photoshopping is it's own category) Trying expanding your abilities and you'll find that a lot of what you've learned writing music will definately help you with the other arts.

[po!]

i guess i'm just repeating what others have said... but you just need to STOP

if you're doodling on the keyboard and playing around and nothing is coming, then just forget it. if the inspiration isnt there, then it isnt there, no need to bang your head and waste time trying to force it. art is something that just can't be forced

take a LONG break from music. after awhile you'll probably be itching to get back and the inspiration will come

[sgx]

I doubt that I could take a week long break here at Drexel from the computer as it's my only form of entertainment and more or less my only form of social contact.

I can tell you that getting into the habit of being in only 2 different places (class and computer desk) every day, day in and day out, is a depressing and boring cycle, and it could be affecting your creativity. You live in a dorm, right? Start hanging out with new people and going places.

[-RK-]

I doubt that I could take a week long break here at Drexel from the computer as it's my only form of entertainment and more or less my only form of social contact.

I can tell you that getting into the habit of being in only 2 different places (class and computer desk) every day, day in and day out, is a depressing and boring cycle, and it could be affecting your creativity. You live in a dorm, right? Start hanging out with new people and going places.

Probably the best advice in the whole thread. If a computer is more or less your only form of social contact, you need to get out more.

[Kanjika]

I doubt that I could take a week long break here at Drexel from the computer as it's my only form of entertainment and more or less my only form of social contact.

I can tell you that getting into the habit of being in only 2 different places (class and computer desk) every day, day in and day out, is a depressing and boring cycle, and it could be affecting your creativity. You live in a dorm, right? Start hanging out with new people and going places.

Probably the best advice in the whole thread. If a computer is more or less your only form of social contact, you need to get out more.

Yes that indeed explains it, and its probably my problem too. I thought the same thing last night, about how i should get off my computer more. I';; probably just go out with freinds and do what i would normally consider "wasting time" for a few days. :mrgreen:

Oh and try changing your FL background. Works for me sometimes.

[zircon]

I appreciate the personal life advice, but you guys are off the mark here. As anyone who met me at the NYC meetup will tell you I'm a sociable, friendly guy and I enjoy hanging out with people. I had a total blast at that meetup. The issue is that here at Drexel, there are very few people who I have things in common with. The main thing is that I don't drink - Drexel is basically a party school, in that all anyone does for fun is get drunk. This includes my roommates. Even my fellow musicians in the music industry program are really just not people I like for the most part (yes I've talked to them, eaten lunch/dinner, hung out etc). I'm already a member of several clubs here too but it's the same story at them as well. Even at the religious club I'm part of, where the people DON'T party for fun, they're extreme right-wing conservatives and we don't share anything in common.

The issue is not "getting out more". I've already made a lot of contacts here, I've gotten to know people, I've been to social events, I've done all of that already. I'm still a member of several clubs which I go to regularly. After doing all that I found out that the people here are not the type I really want to spend a lot of time with. There's nothing wrong with that, I know a lot of people who are in similar situations. I still maintain contact with my buddies from high school, and of course there are the people here at OCR and other communities that I communicate with on a regular basis. As for going places.. well, go where? Parties? I don't go to parties. Concerts? I don't go to concerts. Shopping? I don't have any money to blow - I save my money as best I can. I am perfectly fine with all of this, too. I don't mind being in my dorm in most of my free time. I'm a very happy person.. provided I'm able to write good music.

I would also like to add for emphasis that I appreciate all the advice that has been given to me so far, regardless of whether or not it has worked for me or not.

[V___]

I doubt that I could take a week long break here at Drexel from the computer as it's my only form of entertainment and more or less my only form of social contact.

I can tell you that getting into the habit of being in only 2 different places (class and computer desk) every day, day in and day out, is a depressing and boring cycle, and it could be affecting your creativity. You live in a dorm, right? Start hanging out with new people and going places.

Probably the best advice in the whole thread. If a computer is more or less your only form of social contact, you need to get out more.

Disagree. Massivly.

I have a fair number of friends outside of the net, so its not like i'm a social retard. But i would rather chill with friends online that go out and meet with mates. Your more likely to meet with like minded people online than on the street.

Lately, because of things happening in my personal life, and i'v had to cut out alot of stuff; iv got 3 weeks to finish any music comitments, no online access after that, while i figure out aspects of my life. My real life friends havnt been too understanding to the situation. Family is like whatever. The people who have supported me the most... Ormgas members. The peeps i'v met there have helped set ideas up in my head, and offered understanding and best wishes for the situation. no one else has. This isnt the only time this has happened; When i was moving across the country, online friends were helpful. When i was making decisions for travel, online friends supported me.

Mabey i just have fucked up reallife friends or somthing, but i know i'v received more support for the improvment of my music here than anywhere else, and i used to go to a music school. I would trust online friends more than reallife friends, financially or personally. I could become a hermit and be happy as long as the internet held up. The net allows me to communicate with people with similar tastes and ideas.

Zircon: By saying 'new friends', i dont necesarily have to mean your other roomie neighbours. Mabey try a different IRC music room or somthing (mabey change your nic aswell so peeps arnt all 'OMG ZIRCON UR CT MIX IS LIEK OMG COOL D00D!' :P)

[zircon]

There's definitely nothing wrong with associating mainly with people online, provided you at least make an effort in "real life". Sometimes, you just end up in situations where there aren't people you're really compatible with in your immediate geographical, like where I am now. My parents didn't really have many friends in high school, but after that they did fine and met lets of people that they still communicate with today.

Anyway, what I'm trying to do at the moment is write something more melodic and with an actual chord progression as opposed to strictly electronica like I've been trying to do. Something more in the vein of BT for example (I'm a big fan of his Emotional Technology CD). I haven't had any luck so far, but I'm really giving it my best shot.

[Argle]

The montastery idea sounds pretty good to me. :lol:

[zircon]

Well.. I spent pretty much my whole night so far on this track, and I came up with the following;

http://www.zirconstudios.com/Mixdown.mp3

Pretty generic chord progression, mixing's not too great, but more importantly I don't know what to do with it. I feel like this would be the ideal time to get vocals - unfortunately, I don't have any.

[SirRus]

has anyone else mentioned exploring other art forms yet? Probably sgx :P

but really, not just drawing/painting/filming/photography, even reading mind opening literature could open new doors of creativity. This could all be a part of po!'s advice of just taking a long break... travel, read some books on the beach, explore some exotic locations that remind you of your most mind blowing dreams, such as your new songs for the South American temple's soundtrack...

Studying abroad might be an awesome opportunity in your college years to really explore not only the musical talents abroad but the lifestyles and beauty of their lands.

[V___]

Studying abroad might be an awesome opportunity in your college years to really explore not only the musical talents abroad but the lifestyles and beauty of their lands.

I dunno if i'd recomend Australia for that... popular music seems to have a wider range here (i didnt know til recntly how differnt the acceptance of electronic music is in the US...) however the education of ANY music is very very questionable. Let me give an example: i once applied for a Music Technology corse. I met with the lecturer for a random discussion, and he was talking about the best project from last year.

A student filled up 20 balloons with red paint.
He put them in a dollhouse.
He pressed record on his mic.
He cut up dollhouse + balloons with a chainsaw.
He submitted the recording, and got excelent marks.

I dont know bout you, but i'd rather somthing with, ya know, MELODY or somthing. [/derail]

Zirc, its sounding good. It would suit vocal, but for some reason, growth-wise, i keep thinking of Pendulum - Girl in the Fire... probably because i was thinking of some classic 80s guitar riff leading out of your WiP. Hope the juices get flowing!

[DDRage]

Well.. I spent pretty much my whole night so far on this track, and I came up with the following;

http://www.zirconstudios.com/Mixdown.mp3

Pretty generic chord progression, mixing's not too great, but more importantly I don't know what to do with it. I feel like this would be the ideal time to get vocals - unfortunately, I don't have any.

i like it, imo a good funkycontrapunctual bass would make it beautiful

maybe talk with pixietricks for some vocals, she sounds great in the Chrono Symphonic album...

[Chavous]

I so have an idea for that....Here's a quick rendition:

Mixdown2 (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=406786)

I think I had the same idea as DJV.:lol:

PM me if you like it. Or if you don't :lol:

^ Three consecutive "lol" smilies :lol:

[Malcos]

Oh yeah, I've definitely had musician's block before. I just don't touch my keyboard or Reason for about a month or so - it usually works for me. Dunno what else to say really, so much has already been said on this thread. Sometimes a lack of highs and lows can block you musically as well - when life is 'just so'. I hope you work your way out of it, 7 months is a long time.

[DDRage]

I so have an idea for that....Here's a quick rendition:

Mixdown2 (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=406786)

I think I had the same idea as DJV.:lol:

PM me if you like it. Or if you don't :lol:

^ Three consecutive "lol" smilies :lol:

sounds great :D :D nice kick

[LeoDioxide]

From the infamous words of same random guy online: "Think for yourself." I'll leave you to ruminate upon that until you have reached enlightenment. Be wary, it is not as simple as it first appears.

Regarding Mixdown: I was kind of expecting an over-the-top slam down synthesizer solo leading into the head banging melody when it stopped, but thats just me. For a more emotional appeal, I'd head for a melody changeup, modewise, (dorian and such), fade out the arpeggiating, bring in the bass guitar.

How could I possibly know what to do next you ask? Why, it's all in the quote.

[NeoS]

I kind of recognise myself throughout this whole topic... I'm in a phase right now that when i created something i like (a good sounding synth, or a great arp or bassline, whatever) i hold back in adding stuff. for instance, i had a really neat tune coming. Then i decided to do some major "pre-mastering" thing, and i totally screwed it up. Problem is, at the time i did it, it sounded ok. But when listening to it on a later time, i felt it sucked.

Same goes for "doodles" i have. I first create a lead and try to make it sound as awesome as possible. But then, i can't continue working on it, because it sounds too awesome to fuck up... That's how i think about my mixes lately.

[sephfire]

I know not everyone functions like this, but I can't just force myself to sit down and start writing music if I don't have any ideas to start with. The harder I try to force inspiration, the less I accomplish. Pressuring myself to be inspired has always been counter-productive 100% of the time.

Don't worry too hard about it. It'll come back. It always does.


EDIT:
Well.. I spent pretty much my whole night so far on this track, and I came up with the following;

http://www.zirconstudios.com/Mixdown.mp3

Pretty generic chord progression, mixing's not too great, but more importantly I don't know what to do with it. I feel like this would be the ideal time to get vocals - unfortunately, I don't have any.

If this is your idea of a slump, I really need to go buy your CD. :lol: This is a fine concept WIP. The melody carries some great emotional tones.

[PriZm]

well I didn't read the whole thread, so maybe some things I will say have already been said, but I'll tell y ou what works for me.

1) Randomly jam on live instruments (keyboards count) on chord progressions other artists have made.

2) when you jam, try changing patches if you're playing on a keyboard or changing from clean to distorted and playing the same thing on an electric.

3) The thing with live instruments is, whenever you learn to play someone else's song, you can tweak it as you want, change chord progression, change structure, change melody WITHOUT THINKING, just by jamming, and come up with a nearly unrecognizable song to call your own.

4) Furthermore, you can jam with people and improve dramatically that way.

Until you are ready to learn to play (well) a live instrument, I'd suggest doing as many collabs as you can in your songs/remixes. That way, two people can help each other out when they're blocked in the song.

[zircon]

I know not everyone functions like this, but I can't just force myself to sit down and start writing music if I don't have any ideas to start with. The harder I try to force inspiration, the less I accomplish. Pressuring myself to be inspired has always been counter-productive 100% of the time.

Don't worry too hard about it. It'll come back. It always does.


EDIT:
Well.. I spent pretty much my whole night so far on this track, and I came up with the following;

http://www.zirconstudios.com/Mixdown.mp3

Pretty generic chord progression, mixing's not too great, but more importantly I don't know what to do with it. I feel like this would be the ideal time to get vocals - unfortunately, I don't have any.

If this is your idea of a slump, I really need to go buy your CD. :lol: This is a fine concept WIP. The melody carries some great emotional tones.

Heh, thanks :) There's not a lot I can do with it without a vocalist but maybe I'll keep messing around and see what happens.

It's just sort of a weird phenomenon. As I've said before, pretty much EVERY electronic song I've ever written was written on the spot. What you just described - that you said was 100% counterproductive - is how I wrote all of Impulse Prime and many other random standalone songs. I would sit down at my computer, say to myself "I want to make a good song", and just sort of go to work. My process now isn't any different, it's just not working!

But some great advice has been given so far. I'm strongly considering picking up guitar as a few people have recommended, and as I may have already mentioned, I'm looking into getting a full-range keyboard so I can jam better in my dorm.

What I am actually going to try over the next few days is to PLAN my songs out. Not necessarily with manuscript paper and pencil, but with some kind of a diagram or flow chart. I've never actually done this before, but I read a thread on futureproducers where a bunch of people doing the same type of music as me said it works really well for them.

[Patrick Burns]

I haven't been writing any originals lately, but I've found that planning out my rearrangements before hand, with just a pencil and some notebook paper, really eliminates all the depressing hours of just sitting in front of the screen browsing through samples and patches looking for inspiration.
I finally decided to start working on a resub of sorts for my Raindance in the Ruins remix. Forcing myself to plan it out has made the process so much more enjoyable for me, as I've accomplished more in one month of off and on work than I usually do in two or three.
Of course, this is just considering the arrangement process - style, form, texture, groove, instrumentation, etc. To write a song (the notes) in your head away from an instrument, you've got to have a well-developed ear. Otherwise, you have no palette to work from.

Hope you emerge from the slump you've found yourself in. Perhaps it isn't so much a sudden lack of creativity as it is a (temporary?) loss of enthusiasm for the genre you work in.

[zircon]

That is an interesting point, but I don't think it's the case. I've probably said this several times in the thread, that while I work in a lot of different genres, electronic music gives me the most enjoyment. I have a lot of electronic music on my playlist that I still am fond of, and I usually pick up new songs every week.

Sure, doing ethnic/orchestral songs is challenging, and I get some sense of satisfaction for making a soundtrack that really fits in a game, but what I really want to do is making totally original works in my favorite genre; electronica. I think that's all MOST musicians want to do, when it boils down to it :)

Anyway, I spent about an hour today working out a plan for a song with pen and paper. I basically did the introduction of the song, outlined some rhythms, what kind of tones I wanted, and then a possible structure for the chorus. When I get home I'll work on putting it into action.

[Frederic D. Petitpas]

I know exactly what you mean dude.. i've written about 250 songs but how many riffs have I just collected.. one day, like when I was 19, I had like 20 ideas of songs unfinished.. and you know what I've done ? I started working at putting them all togetter.. and I gave me 16 minutes shock!!
Try it too maybe!?
Anyways, I think it's normal to lack of inspiration sometimes, that is because you have to do somethings else for a little while, why don't you go to the gym to make yourself some muscles or stuff ?

If you'd like to see the results of that 20 songs mix, just check out for 'The Awakening (Terminal Fantasy)' on www.mysongbook.com
there you'll find my work (It was 1½ years ago)

Keep hopes dude!
Love makes music last :roll:

[PriZm]

Planning your songs sounds like a good idea. I've seen how Dream Theater write some of their songs, using basic ideas from other bands and completely modifying them, and writing their song structure based on these ideas.

What I really like about this idea is that you can listen to a specific part in a song you can't stop listening to, and try to make your own interpretation. Obviously, in the end, the more different it sounds, the better; it's just meant as a starting point.

One good example would be:
1) Intro, slow pads a la Shine on your Crazy Diamond
2) Fade in sad broken arpeggios, progression like Yngwie Malmsteen's Angel (something like this, I can't remember the title)
3) BAM! Entering heavy drum'n bass a la Pendulum
4) Sweet melody on the shakuhachi (a la FF6 Terra).
5) etc.

Mixing genres, or instruments from other genres, can be really helpful too. Take a rock song, like something from Bon Jovi or F-Zero or Top Gear and try adapting it for koto or accordion, for example. They do some rock or sad songs in Naruto OST with koto/shamisen (I dunno) rock solos and it sounds really creative and original.

Analyzing songs you love often helps too. Say there's a passage you like, you can analyze it and find out why it sounds so good in a more therotical way. That way, you can reproduce it in your music. Say you really like a passage in a melody because there's a third played over the root, then a second played over VII and a root played over VI (well that would not be very original), you can use it to base your melodies on that.

Experimenting with odd time signatures also can help you augment your creativity, because it's something we don't hear often in mainstream music, especially electronica. Try to write a totally swinging drum groove in 7/8, that should inspire you.

The reason why I'm telling you all that is in fact to develop your inner hear. Sitting in front of a computer makes the music a mostly 'visual' experience where you become to 'see' where the notes should be and at what moment. By simply jamming at random over a progression, you can make mistakes that actually sound cool, experiment with different scales and all that. Your ear and muscles control the music you make, and that makes the experience totally different, thus strengthening your creative possibilities. You might end up just making your bag-o-licks bigger, but that would already be a huge help.

The way I see it, as I already told you, you have a signature sound (recognizable through both your sewer themes). I'd personally try to experiment over this kinda sound since it seems to be your forte, mixing evil-clown pizzicatos and dramatic strings with heavy and thick sounding electronic textures.

Anyways, good luck

[Arcana]

That is an interesting point, but I don't think it's the case. I've probably said this several times in the thread, that while I work in a lot of different genres, electronic music gives me the most enjoyment. I have a lot of electronic music on my playlist that I still am fond of, and I usually pick up new songs every week.

Sure, doing ethnic/orchestral songs is challenging, and I get some sense of satisfaction for making a soundtrack that really fits in a game, but what I really want to do is making totally original works in my favorite genre; electronica. I think that's all MOST musicians want to do, when it boils down to it :)

Anyway, I spent about an hour today working out a plan for a song with pen and paper. I basically did the introduction of the song, outlined some rhythms, what kind of tones I wanted, and then a possible structure for the chorus. When I get home I'll work on putting it into action.

I'm curious to know what you write down on your pen and paper.

I've never been good at writing notes on a staff, since my ear sucks (it took me 6 months of ear training for me to recognize a Major 6th from a Minor 6th). I'm wondering if you just use a staff, or if there's some other way you do things.

[zircon]

Oh, I HATE writing actual notes on manuscript paper. Can't stand it. What I came up with today is was.. interesting. It's a bunch of boxes from left to right with different labels, like "Vinyl breakbeat mix (highpass/bandpass), "Light affected percussion", "Dropping sync/perc fx", "Rhythmic nonpitched chug syn", etc. I placed them from left to right to represent the time they come in in the song, and drew arrows to show where they went.

I also wrote out a bunch of rhythms for the different parts. For the drum part for example, I wrote something like this

| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
K (K) S (roll)sK S

With | representing one 16th note, K = kick, S = snare, (roll) is a fill, lowercase s is a ghost note, (K) is done every other measure.. that kinda thing.

For the guitar chug rhythm I did the same thing but put little dots over where I wanted the chugs to be. For the bass part I didn't really have any ideas for notes, so I did the same rhythm notation thing but moved the dots up or down depending on the general direction I wanted them to go. There are a FEW musical scribbles, but not traditional notes; I just wrote out "C" at the beginning of a 16th note ||| passage, then F# Bb OR EB depending on where I wanted the line to move.

I got up to the main chorus, which is the word CHORUS in huge letters. Under it; "thick main drumline", "layered vinyl", "syn fx", "heavy crunch dist bassline".

So uhh.. I have no idea if this is going to work or not. Again, I didn't really have any particular ideas in mind, just general feelings for sounds that I wanted. I tried to write them down.

PriZm; interestingly, a lot of my songs are born from little things I've heard from other songs. For example, the main riff of "Hourglass". Go to a keyboard and play the plucked instrument melody that plays in Prodigy's "Mindfield" track from "Fat of the Land". F C Bb C Ab G Eb C, F C Bb C Ab G Eb C. Well, I was listening to that track and playing that riff on my keyboard, and I just got stuck on the Ab G Eb C F part - the second half of the riff plus the first note of the beginning. I played it over and over and that became the basis for Hourglass! The song "Endorphin" from the same album was inspired by "Over the Line" by The Crystal Method, "Acid Dominion" was an attempt at doing something like "Smack My Bitch Up" (hence the main distorted synth line) and so forth.

I think it's always a good idea to look at songs and break down why they sound good. I do that a lot whenever I find a song I like. I'll load up a bunch of VSTs and just sort of play along first while listening to the song, then I'll actually pause the song and sequence some of the chords or the melody and look at how it's constructed. Unfortunately, this is not very helpful when writing the kind of electronic music I do, because a song like "Badass" by TCM or "Dig Your Own Hole" by The Chemical Brothers hardly have any notes at all, and what's there isn't very interesting. What makes the songs good is the simplicity of the riffs and the sound design. Were I writing trance it might be a different story.. ;)

I haven't really tried working in different time signatures, perhaps because out of all the electronica CDs I have, nothing is in anything else besides 4/4. Just recently, I wrote a final boss theme that was in 6/4 (I think) but whenever I try something like that for breakbeat or big beat it just ends up sounding stupid. Really stupid. If I had a bunch of examples of grooves in weird time signatures I'm sure I would be able to come up with something.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.. some great advice in your posts, even if a lot of it is not working for me right now.

[Frederic D. Petitpas]

Hey Zircon, like that guy with the quebec's logo said (cool) with dream theater looking at other bands's progressions and stuff.. and you saying your 6/4 stuff ended up stupid..

Well why don't you try modifying a part of a DT song ?
Like euh.. Dance of Eternity let's say
You'll come up with some 7/8 etc... And i'm sure it's gonna be like "Oh Shake that thing girl!!" groove-transe soloized. ? :wink:

[JustChris]

If even Zircon gets writer's block and has a buildup of unused WIPs, then I guess I don't feel as bad. :lol: My last OCR submission attempt was in October 2004. I have 20 game-related mixes, most which haven't seen the light of day to anyone but me. Actually, my game mixes outnumber my original works now, is that a bad thing 8O But now I'm starting to feel more confident again, little by little since I joined the Tales music project. That has helped me stay in with completing at least one song.

And Zirc, I actually still have a few of your game WIPs lying in my playlist somewhere. They're cool renmants of stuff that could be something more.

[Arcana]

If even Zircon gets writer's block and has a buildup of unused WIPs, then I guess I don't feel as bad. :lol: My last OCR submission attempt was in October 2004. I have 20 game-related mixes, most which haven't seen the light of day to anyone but me. Actually, my game mixes outnumber my original works now, is that a bad thing 8O But now I'm starting to feel more confident again, little by little since I joined the Tales music project. That has helped me stay in with completing at least one song.

And Zirc, I actually still have a few of your game WIPs lying in my playlist somewhere. They're cool renmants of stuff that could be something more.

Man, I haven't tried making a song since August... :( and then I decided that it was no good and eventually withdrew from the Tales project. It's not really a slump, though... I just haven't had the heart to try lately.

[Nicole Adams]

A few days ago I started a new remix, but before I actually opened up Reason and FL, I created an outline in Windows Notepad. I've been listening to a couple "inspiration songs" and have noted some of the effects, instruments, etc. used to help build my outline. Anyway, when I got to working on the song, the outline really helped. I don't feel blind at what I'm doing. The outline I made was pretty simple, but it still helps me know where to go.

[DDRage]

A few days ago I started a new remix, but before I actually opened up Reason and FL, I created an outline in Windows Notepad. I've been listening to a couple "inspiration songs" and have noted some of the effects, instruments, etc. used to help build my outline. Anyway, when I got to working on the song, the outline really helped. I don't feel blind at what I'm doing. The outline I made was pretty simple, but it still helps me know where to go.

when you speak about an outline, what are you referring to specifically? Is it some chord progressions or the different parts the song will be comprised of? Or sth else?

[andyjayne]

I think I've just been hit by this again today, sat down infront of my keyboard / synths / pc and came up with all crap and didn't even save anything, ah well... time to read the whole thread again.

[zircon]

Well.. my report; after planning out a song beforehand, it came out like crap anyway. I couldn't even force myself to keep going with it. No surprise there I guess. I couldn't even get the basic groove down right. :(

[Fickett Towleny]

I've had this happen to me to. Typically this means that you need to take a good rest, stop forcing yourself, and find a piece of music you REALLY enjoy. Listening to John Williams always gets me back in action.

[Chavous]

Also try Faure: Pavane. One of THE most amazing and beautiful songs ever created.

[Nicole Adams]

when you speak about an outline, what are you referring to specifically? Is it some chord progressions or the different parts the song will be comprised of? Or sth else?
My outline contains the different parts the song will be comprised of and how long each section will be. I don't write out chord progressions since I don't have perfect pitch. One thing I always do, though, is figure out the key of the song.

[zircon]

Nicole; you don't need perfect pitch to be able to hear chord progressions in your head. Really, if you just learn the common ones, play them on the piano, and listen to songs that have them, you'll pick it up in no time. For example, I -> vi -> IV -> V is a really common trance progression and it's also used in oldies music.

Example (key of C)

C E G
A C E
F A C
G B D

Very bright and happy. Another one is VI-7, VII, i.

Ab C Eb G
F Bb D
G C Eb

BT used this one in "Force of Gravity" and it's a pretty popular one in a lot of kinds of music. The variant is starting on i, then going to VI, VII, and back to i.

Then you have a sort of Fatboy Slim style progression: I -> III -> IV.

C E G
Eb G Bb
F A C

I used this one in "Throwdown", it's very happy and fits upbeat music.

Here's one that's used in LOTS of different pieces, from anime soundtracks, to trance music, to classical music. i -> VI -> III -> VII.

C Eb G
Ab C Eb
Eb G Bb
Bb D F

It's very expressive and emotional.

Finally, here's one that's somewhat serious. I used it in a couple tracks on "Impulse Prime" (Hourglass, Dimension) and I think it has a cool sound to it. i-7, VI-7, iv.

C Eb G Bb
Ab C Eb G
F Ab C

[Nicole Adams]

Thanks for tip and examples, zircon. One thing I did start doing is once I get the key of the song I then write out the triads of that scale for a reference (I to vii° or i to VII). I guess I kinda went against what I said earlier. :oops:

[Arcana]

Nicole; you don't need perfect pitch to be able to hear chord progressions in your head. Really, if you just learn the common ones, play them on the piano, and listen to songs that have them, you'll pick it up in no time. For example, I -> vi -> IV -> V is a really common trance progression and it's also used in oldies music.

...

LET ME SAVE THIS TO MY DRIVE NOW.

It's the kind of thing I've needed for a while.

[zircon]

Cool! If you found it useful here are some more.

i -> III -> VI -> VII

Another good trance one, not bad for 80s style stuff either. I find it sounds best in the following voicing:

C G C Eb
Eb Bb Eb G
Ab Eb Ab C
Bb F Bb D

Alternatively, you could look at this as vi -> I -> IV -> V, which could resolve to the vi or the I.

A C E
C E G
F A C
G B D

This one is kinda funky, I used it in "Endorphin" on Impulse Prime and it's got a pretty bright feel to it.

I -> VII -> I -> VI-7 -> VII (the last two take place in one measure). Example voicing:

C G C E
C F Bb D
C C E G
Ab C Eb G
Bb D F

Something like that.

This next one could be used for a lot of styles, but I think it adapts well to something like smooth jazz. There are two parts. Here's the first one; i -> iv -> VII -> i.

C Eb G
C F Ab
Bb D F
C Eb G

Then the next part is i -> iv -> ii(diminished) -> V -> i (with the ii(dim) and V being in one measure).

C C Eb G
F Ab C F
D F Ab D
G B D G
C Eb G

You can hear this in action here.
http://www.zirconstudios.com/Smoov.mp3

[PriZm]

Heh pretty cool.

If you want your progressions to sound 'jazzier' you can try substitutions too. The most common one I can think of is substitute IV to ii7

In C: IV = F A C
ii7 = D F A C

So you get the picture... you can always try substitutions yourself, as long as they remain diatonic to the scale you're in (there are some times when non-diatonic chords work well too, but let's not elaborate too much on that).

Some very basic chord progression that are useful to build riffs on:

viii - VII - VI - V7 (used very often in popular music and can be given any kind of fell. I think Portishead's Roads is a little variant of that progression)

viii - viii - VI - VII (used in old electronica and power metal pretty often too)

I - I - IV - V7 or i - i - IV - V7 (used to give a bluesy feel to your riff)

Of course this is pretty generic, you can always expand on this on do a riff with, say:
viii - viii - VII - VII - viii - VI - VII - V7


NB: I notated viii or VIII just to say that the other chords should be lower.

[Chavous]

Now that we're on the subject of chord progressions, Here's a neat one I found today:

iii - Imaj7 - iv - VII

In the key of C:

iii - E G B
I maj7 - C E G B
iv - A C E
VII - B D# F#

Very dark sounding until the last chord, which flips around the feeling entirely. Kind of neat, I thought so anyway.

maj7 's are my favorite kind of chords, too. I use them everywhere.

[zircon]

Hey, that's the progression from "The Final Countdown".

[Chavous]

Hey, that's the progression from "The Final Countdown".

Oh, wow. I didn't recongnized it; and I should know that kind of thing...

[suzumebachi]

PS: No matter how bad zirc feels about not being able to finish tracks, I'll still always be the WIP king. In the last 4 years, I've probably made well over 300 tracks that have never seen the light of day. That's not even counting the concept WIPs and shit i've actually shared with some people. I still constantly get people telling me to finish X or Y song. And I probably never will. Why? Well in my case, I think it's more of a bad luck problem. I'll be working on a handful of WIPs, and then have some kind of terrible technological catastrophe (ie: my brother putting a magnet on my hard drive) and lose everything I had worked on up to that point. This has happened... 5 or 6 times now.

Also, being addicted to World of Warcraft totally doesn't help either. Neither does staying up till 4:00am coding php. :(

[zircon]

It's not a matter of having problems with my WIPs, it's that they're not even good. At least you have stuff that COULD be good, you just keep running into technological difficulties. I'd still rather be in your shoes any day of the week.

[Nase]

It's not a matter of having problems with my WIPs, it's that they're not even good.
Maybe that attitude is part of your trouble. I've often found that when I tinker around with something long enough, I'll eventually start to like what I hear most of the time. To me, the expectation of getting something good sounding within short time often is a problem.

I sometimes remind myself of the time I tweaked some knobs and placed some notes into a piano roll for the first time. A typical beginner's state of mind is the best thing in some ways: You just fiddle around open-mindedly and don't get worried about reaching a certain quality standard too much.

Of course, I don't know you and might be way off. But you're pretty popular around here, which might add to the pressure of making your music live up to your previous releases.
And I'm not saying that applying a "quality filter" is bad, it's just unhealthy when your critical attitude keeps you from doing anything.

[myf]

Hey, that's the progression from "The Final Countdown".

:lol:

[Chavous]

Ok, turned out I get my Roman numerals confused (or at least the placement of the "i").

Now that we're on the subject of chord progressions, Here's a neat one I found today:

iii - Imaj7 - vi - VII

In the key of C:

iii - E G B
I maj7 - C E G B
vi - A C E
VII - B D# F#

Very dark sounding until the last chord, which flips around the feeling entirely. Kind of neat, I thought so anyway.

maj7 's are my favorite kind of chords, too. I use them everywhere.

fix'd

[Arcana]

Ok, turned out I get my Roman numerals confused (or at least the placement of the "i").

Now that we're on the subject of chord progressions, Here's a neat one I found today:

iii - Imaj7 - vi - VII

In the key of C:

iii - E G B
I maj7 - C E G B
vi - A C E
VII - B D# F#

Very dark sounding until the last chord, which flips around the feeling entirely. Kind of neat, I thought so anyway.

maj7 's are my favorite kind of chords, too. I use them everywhere.

fix'd

ohshi, those are NOTES, not chords. :D No wonder I was confused. I was entering into my sequencer, "E chord. G chord. B chord. C chord. E chord..." and wondering, "Hmm, this doesn't quite match up with what I know from music theory."

But still, it's totally fun to play, even if it sounds like crap.

[The Joker]

Hmmm, I'm in a similiar situation as well. I've been having trouble making things that sound good. Leik I'll have something, then, crap. Though it has more to do with the fact thaT i'M JUST NOT MUSICALLY INCLINED AT THE MOMENT. Plus I'm lazy right now(note the fact I hit caps & refuse to retype it).

Though when I do make music, I go through the same process Zirc does. I just sort of make stuff as I go. One thing that helped me a whole lot was to use my emotions at a given time. Soemtimes I'd think about someone or something. A person, or a thought, or a state of being. From that, I get some inspiration.

Yes, totally weird starting point for a new paragraph. Anyway, once I visualize whatever it may be, I make music that reflects it. If I'm feeling happy, or thinking about something that's upbeat; I make something upbeat & happy. If I'm thinking about dark moody stuff; BAM, dark moody stuff.

And that's how babies are born. Musical babies. At least in the Puga household.

[Argle]

I say, force yourself to finish songs, no matter how much you think they suck.

I go through stages with each song:

1. Jot down some ideas and think I'm off to an awesome start

2. Start fleshing out the song, but start to think, "WTF, this doesn't sound good at all"

3. Stick with it, despite my misgivings, and get to the point where I start to like it again and enjoy working on it.


*shrug* So yeah, just force yourself to turn your ideas into full songs.

[zircon]

Let me say now that it appears as though I am back on the right track again. I won't celebrate until I'm DONE with this new WIP of mine (which you can find in the WIP:Other forum) but I can explain how I got to this point..

Basically, I got the inspiration for it, quite simply, by listening to the same stuff I always did. I was just going through Community Service II on my iPod for 20 minutes before English class, and I was actually listening - not being distracted by anything else. I had forgotten how catchy and well-produced the songs were. These were the same tracks I was listening to while making Impulse Prime as well. As I listened to them, I started sort of putting in my own improv parts over them in my head, and for whatever reason, I just began to get the same feeling of burning creativity that I had while making IP. Maybe it's because that day, the weather was NICE for a change.. it's been freezing here, but that day, it was basically like summer.

Anyway, as the day progressed I just felt better and better. I don't know how to describe it, but it was like my brain was really working hard and on a different level than it usually is. So the second I got back to my dorm I started working on the track. For the first few hours I came up with some "bleh" ideas. And initially I was sort of disappointed and began to lose confidence. However, I guess I remembered some of the advice here, and pushed on anyway. I actually erased most of what I did and kept trying different things until I came up with a motif I really liked. From that point it's been easy to work on the song. And FUN.

[Arcana]

Celebrate a little bit, zircon. The little victories always lead up to the larger ones. Obviously you shoudln't throw a party but celebration is as simple as thinking, "I've got an awesome melody going on here."