Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[eternal Zero]

Someone who has a basic knowledge of physics please respond to my momentum idea and see what you think of it. I never thought of smash to have such a gravity/mass system because it only had to deal with weight. I also doubt they'll be changing gravity from stage to stage, that'd be too gimicky for me.

[The Author]

but seriously, you can only get it if you beat the game on mega hard mode in less than 10 minutes

Oops, double post. Sorry about that.

The only game where I easily saw the good ending was Metroid 2. I don't know why but that game I could finish rather quickly.

[Drack]

From a purely physics point of view, it would be better to look at the collision from a force point of view than a momentum one.

Say Bowser gets smacked and is falling down and to the left at a perfect 45 degree angle at a crate.

If bowser's mass * |velocity| > the force it takes to break a box, the box should simply break, and the items should fall out in the direction of Bowser's pre-collision motion and with the total force of (Bowser's mass * |bowser's initial velocity|) - force to break the box.

If the force of the impact is NOT enough to break the box, should it move, and how much? You have to take into account the forces at hand. The downward force of Bowser's motion will not push the crate anywhere - indeed, it will increase the friction's force by increasing the crate's normal force. Assuming an inelastic collision (which is a big assumption, but elasticity isn't what I'm worried about here) Bowser would be stopped by the collision and transfer all the force into the crate.

So the forces on the crate would be:
(Bowser's mass * |bowser's initial velocity|) \ sqrt(2) in the down and left directions.

The frictional force would be
Coefficient of Friction between the box and surface * [(Mass of crate * acceleration due to gravity) + (Bowser's mass * |Bowser's initial velocity| \ sqrt(2))]

And the force of motion in the left direction would be
(Bowser's mass * |bowser's initial velocity|) \ sqrt(2)


For a wooden box on a somewhat rough metal surface, the coefficient of friction should be around 0.3

Assuming that the crate has much less mass than Bowser, the impact should send it flying, despite a large frictional force.

[dsx100]

Please don't put me in that group...it doesn't really matter about the name at all. Case in point is that you should look at the idea of costume change and ignore Samus entirely else all you kids will start drooling over the pixels again.

The biggest idea I have with this is players not agreeing with new looks, or really hardcore old schoolers who just can't deal without the 64 Smash look. The only character who wouldn't need much work is Kirby, lol. Except maybe if they had a 64 look.

Dude, you need to stop lashing out at people. Nobody ment any harm by it. You need to stop generalizing too. If I recall, I said the whole different costumes idea wouldn't fit well with Zero Suit Samus. I never said nothing about Bikini Samus. Believe me, I am completely agianst that as well. There are other Non-bikini offits Samus has had in the metroid games. Also, to Arek and Zero, I never said anything about different costumes being confirmed. I just said, if the idea where included, it would make more sense to have Zero Suit Samus's name changed. You don't agree with it, thats just fine. It just sounds weird to me particularly as I am a huge Metroid fan, and the name really only refers to her playable incarnation in Zero Mission. Besides I am starting to think this costume thing won't work. Kirby won't have any other costumes.

[eternal Zero]

Kirby won't have any other costumes.

Just because it's easy to get under you skin: Kirby will have an "alternate costume" for each other character in Brawl. =O

Also...Drack brings up a good point with the physics in the game if they do decide to bring it too deep...ugh...I don't think I'd like a full-on physics engine in Brawl, but I do want some kind of control to how quickly you can get that box in motion.


edit: DSX, you were also didn't notice this was already said about the costume idea:

Thinking about the costume change idea objectively...it doesn't quite "fit." Some characters have far too many possibilities where others have little to none. That in itself will surely shut down the idea, however, it is a clever little idea that would be pretty cool. This is because you need at least 4 per character up to a possible 8 if that speculation about 8 players is, indeed, true. Though I also think that one will flounder because the stages don't look that much larger, and 8 players on a standard sized stage would suck.

[Eulogic]

This is now the biggest thread in Gendisc, probably the biggest in all OCRemix.

The old Smash thread got to the 300s or 400s, I believe.

Also, the OCR Christians thread is larger.

[JackKieser]

Damn... that physics breakdown was thorough. I think I actually learned something from that post.

...

Nice job. ^^

--Jack Kieser

[dsx100]

Just because it's easy to get under you skin: Kirby will have an "alternate costume" for each other character in Brawl

edit: DSX, you were also didn't notice this was already said about the costume idea:

Good point about the Kirby thing, although it would be hard to pull off as kirby only copies part of the costume and I made the post before I read what you said about the costumes. See that wasn't so bad. Try lightening up a little, its not going to hurt you.

Also when ever you make a theory or bring up idea, expect people to make a big deal about it. Look happened with what I said about Ridley. I knew it would happen but I was still wishing people would have ignored it or let it be.

[CE]

The old Smash thread got to the 300s or 400s, I believe.

Also, the OCR Christians thread is larger.

i wasn't around for that one

and fuck you're right

[megadave]

1) I hate people who identify composers only with one or two major games or series they've done, and assume that any and all future work is likely to be connected to those past works.

Hip Tanaka: Metroid, Kid Icarus

Du hast mich?

[Neo Samus]

LOL!!!!

offtopic_ I now understand the whole 10 character thing you guys post every once in a while.

[atmuh]

someones quick

[The Author]

So, lets take some bets:

What will be in tomorrow's update. My call is they are gonna reveal a new stage.

(Speculating on speculations, I am good at this.)

[atmuh]

they will reveal zero suit samus as a character

[Neo Samus]

they will reveal zero suit samus as a character


Well I was gonna say reveal another character, but you beat me to the punch. :wink:

[megadave]

So, lets take some bets:

What will be in tomorrow's update. My call is they are gonna reveal a new stage.

(Speculating on speculations, I am good at this.)

Well, if you based your assumptions off of a previous pattern (yoshi music and then yoshi stage), then we would get a Metroid stage or character because of Ridley's theme.

But that's by assuming that the updates follow a pattern, which I am unsure of.

[Neo Samus]

Well, if you based your assumptions off of a previous pattern (yoshi music and then yoshi stage), then we would get a Metroid stage or character because of Ridley's theme.

But that's by assuming that the updates follow a pattern, which I am unsure of.


As much as I would like to see that happen, I don't think we will see a metroid stage yet. When he posted Delfino he didn't post the music before that. Heck, we haven't even heard the music for Delfino yet.

I hope I'm wrong though. I would like to see stages that have not been shown in trailers yet, like Delfino.

[SetzerGabbiani]

Someone mind tellin me where everyone's gettin these updates from? Didn't see a link on the first page and ill be damned if I go though 300+ pages =)

[supremespleen]

Someone mind tellin me where everyone's gettin these updates from? Didn't see a link on the first page and ill be damned if I go though 300+ pages =)http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html

[linkspast]

It be cool if it were another Final smash update. What could Snakes be?...

[Sir_NutS]

The insanity, irrationality, lunacity, deranged logic, foolishness, lack of common sense, mudslinging, obsessive and wishful thinking, sheer madness, utter dementia and general lulz makes this the best currently active thread of ocr.

Keep up the good work.

[Neo Samus]

The insanity, irrationality, lunacity, deranged logic, foolishness, lack of common sense, mudslinging, obsessive and wishful thinking, sheer madness, utter dementia and general lulz makes this the best currently active thread of ocr.

Keep up the good work.


You Sir....are NutS!!!!

[Effector]

It be cool if it were another Final smash update. What could Snakes be?...

I second this. I wanna see more Final Smashes. Snake's could be calling in a Metal Gear for missile rape?

[Hum4n After All]

Possibly be a character update, but I have a hunch it could be a game mode update.

[The Mutericator]

The insanity, irrationality, lunacity, deranged logic, foolishness, lack of common sense, mudslinging, obsessive and wishful thinking, sheer madness, utter dementia and general lulz makes this the best currently active thread of ocr.

Keep up the nice work.

Fix'd for awesome. Mind if I sig?

[CE]

The insanity, irrationality, lunacity, deranged logic, foolishness, lack of common sense, mudslinging, obsessive and wishful thinking, sheer madness, utter dementia and general lulz makes this the best currently active thread of ocr.

Keep up the good work.

man i know

it's fucking awesome

[Critical Hit]

man i know

it's fucking awesome

*Shakes CE's hand*

So, lets take some bets:

What will be in tomorrow's update. My call is they are gonna reveal a new stage.

I'm thinking it might end up being another "how to play" instalment myself.

[FuriousFure]

i'm thinking character profile: link


only time will tell.

[atmuh]

i was closest

[KakTheInfected]

Wow, I am really liking that model.

[Critical Hit]

Forget about "zero suit" samus, that power suit is looking pretty damn sexy....

[linkspast]

Nice work to the one who said Metriod Stage you were rather close...

[atmuh]

Nice work to the one who said Metriod Stage you were rather close...

no
i was closest
i said zero suit samus
prizeplz

[friendlyHunter]

It's... so.... shinyyyy... can't, look..... away!! =O

(That's your prize. Your guess was so close it made the suit really shiny.)


From that one sentence on there, one can guess Samus will probably have the same B moves again, but improved. That last pic is probably the grapple beam, but here's hoping it's actually Ice beam....

[KWarp]

I am liking this slow supply of information. :D

[KakTheInfected]

Actually, I'm guessing the last picture is just the blinking that charge shot does when it's fully charged.

[friendlyHunter]

Ah, you're probably right.

On that note - perhaps the fact that you can charge up your shot is reason to believe that once again they'll be no fast-firing beam. =(

Although they could easily make it work like the charge beam in Metroid games: press B to charge, release to fire. Tap it quickly to fire quickly... quick like a FOX.... a fox named Fox, y'know, firing a pistol quickly, like Fox does.......... That would actually be pretty nifty, EXTREMELY nifty if I may say so myself. Rapid-fire beam AND charge beam - it's like two moves for the price of ONE!! However, you'd have to let go of B and fire off your charged shot before you can use B-up/down/forwards - an interesting stategical thingy, no? Ah well, one can dream...

[FuriousFure]

they are now half done on the veteran fighters.


i wonder if the containers will change along with the barrels and boxes

[StarZander]

Her arm cannon is equipped with a variety of weapons.
Mastering all of them is the first step toward victory.

Wouldn't this suggest that she will actually have different kinds of beams?

[Critical Hit]

Ah, you're probably right.

On that note - perhaps the fact that you can charge up your shot is reason to believe that once again they'll be no fast-firing beam. =(

Although they could easily make it work like the charge beam in Metroid games: press B to charge, release to fire. Tap it quickly to fire quickly... quick like a FOX.... a fox named Fox, y'know, firing a pistol quickly, like Fox does.......... That would actually be pretty nifty, EXTREMELY nifty if I may say so myself. Rapid-fire beam AND charge beam - it's like two moves for the price of ONE!! However, you'd have to let go of B and fire off your charged shot before you can use B-up/down/forwards - an interesting stategical thingy, no? Ah well, one can dream...

This would make Samus very much more appealing to me as a character (along with her sleek new look, of course).

Wouldn't this suggest that she will actually have different kinds of beams?

That's what it sounds like to me, but I don't dare get my hopes up for it quite yet..sounds too good to be true.

[Rambo]

Wouldn't this suggest that she will actually have different kinds of beams?

If you could alternate beams.. I would shit my pants. And then i'd keep playing with shitty pants.

[atmuh]

Wouldn't this suggest that she will actually have different kinds of beams?

no
think now
her arm has
charge beam
missiles
grapple beam
flamey thing

they are not adding more

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Wow, the powersuit looks great.

[SetzerGabbiani]

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html

Ahh, Thanks!

I thought Samus had a new suit by the way people were referring to the "Power Suit" lol...I thought that was named the Varia suit? Meh, Whatever... Just lookin forward to the next bit of information.

[The Author]

Ahh, Thanks!

I thought Samus had a new suit by the way people were referring to the "Power Suit" lol...I thought that was named the Varia suit? Meh, Whatever... Just lookin forward to the next bit of information.
The Varia Suit is an upgrade to the Powersuit. and I am loving it. Those worried about the poly count on the pokeball...

[StarZander]

no
think now
her arm has
charge beam
missiles
grapple beam
flamey thing

they are not adding more

Yes they are. I'm telling you! They must! This is the danger of teasing us nerds with yummy daily updates. If we don't get to feed on what we want and come to expect, we will just go into frenzy-mode. We'd still buy the game though, so I guess it doesn't matter to them.

I wonder if Samus' Final Smash will be a super bomb, or perhaps her ship will come to her aid? 'Twould be sweet.

[The Author]

Yes they are. I'm telling you! They must! This is the danger of teasing us nerds with yummy daily updates. If we don't get to feed on what we want and come to expect, we will just go into frenzy-mode. We'd still buy the game though, so I guess it doesn't matter to them.

I wonder if Samus' Final Smash will be a super bomb, or perhaps her ship will come to her aid? 'Twould be sweet.

...

yeah... hmmm.. about her final smash...

[eternal Zero]

Damn that suit looks mighty fine. Samus was always my main for crushing tournaments, and this update really makes me happy. The last pic definitely does look like she has her charged shot on standby. Bottom left is the missile shot. Top right is f-air. And if you don't know top left, you have some playing to do.

Also, wouldn't you say that huge beam shot we saw in the trailers to be her final smash? Makes most sense to me.

[Sir_NutS]

shiny suit, samus. :smile:

[Drack]

...

yeah... hmmm.. about her final smash...
A few ideas:
-That OMG HUEG beam she fired in the E3 trailer
-a power bomb
-5x seeker missile
-Some missile combo. Super missile maybe
-I like the idea of her Gunship coming, but have we ever seen it shoot in any of the games though?

[The Author]

A few ideas:
-That OMG HUEG beam she fired in the E3 trailer
-a power bomb
-5x seeker missile
-Some missile combo. Super missile maybe
-I like the idea of her Gunship coming, but have we ever seen it shoot in any of the games though?
I believe the gunship fires in the Zero Mission false escape.

And well, I remember reading that when you used Samus's final smash, she switched to Zero Suit... Although I doubt she overloaded her powersuit like that ever.

The most probable final smash are the Power Bomb. Other than that I just see the hyperbeam.

However it is too similar to Mario's final smash...

[eternal Zero]

It's easy to see how you could differentiate Mario's and Samus' final smashes if it is really the "hyper beam." Mario's could travel through characters, but Samus' could stop at contact with a character or possibly be more concentrated.

The whole stripping of the armor with her final smash is merely speculation due to how they presented Zero Suit in the trailer. I am still against the idea that Zero Suit will be an additional identity on Samus similar to Zelda and Sheik. It would be lame to be stuck having to hunt for a final smash to get Zero Suit, or to totally avoid them in order to maintain Shiny Suit.

[Penfold]

Damn, every week I check the site, I get more excited for this game. I'm loving the music, and the looks of the game thus far. I think it's pretty cool how they change the look of the barrels and crates depending on the stage. Samus' character model turned out really well, and I'm digging the Fox redesign (never played Starfox Command though).

[dsx100]

Samus looks awsome. I was worried about how she would look when they first revealed that CG render of her way back at E3 last year. I thought she was going to look dull and plain like she was in Melee. Now, her suit looks much shinner and the colors are more saturated. It also looks (just speculating) like she moves more elegantly. I actually thought I was looking at Metroid Prime 2 screens the first time I saw those screens. Also, as some said before, the polys look really good on her. I don't think they are dropping the polygon count.

[eternal Zero]

I just remembered. The hyperbeam is actually an attack Samus implemented and it does go through everything, including enemies. That being said, I don't think my idea of being able to use another player as a shield will save you from Samus' final smash, but I do believe it will be a more concentrated blast compared to Mario's which seems to fan out.

[friendlyHunter]

Yeah, at least now I can't possibly be dissapointed with how Samus looks =)


The most probable final smash are the Power Bomb. Other than that I just see the hyperbeam.

However it is too similar to Mario's final smash...

Don't mean to argue or anything, but... who says the thing in the trailer is called "hyper beam"? If the name comes from some very reliable source, I'd be willing to bet that's her final smash.


The Hyper Beam from Super Metroid (the one you get during the last boss) would be an AMAZING final smash. Unimited super-powered shots for 10-20 seconds! Even if you can only shoot it in 1 or 2 directions that would be amazing. Or they could do a similar thing with Ice Beam - or a limited ammount of missiles that you can fire off as fast as you want =D

Or an even better idea: the Missile Tank could be an ITEM =o 5 rapid-fire missile shots, available to any character!!! Imagine the stategy! The dodging! The adventure! The romance! (Well, maybe not the romance.....)



...By the way, I've never really liked the "generic blue circles" they have Samus shooting all the time... what is it supposed to be anyway?

[eternal Zero]

I'm inclined to think that they're going to call it the new hyperbeam as they've come to have their own style of Samus' blaster.

I don't know if I like the idea of missle tanks as a weapon...but I do think it is possible. Biggest issue I have with it is that you already had (maybe have) the screwball as an item and I personally think it a little unfair for Samus' weapons to be available as items like that. Regardless, triple screw attacking someone was always funny.

[Hum4n After All]

Samus is one bad mamajama.
Mmmm.

[Neo Samus]

And to think, people were complaining about the graphics not too long ago. LOL!!

[DeathBySpoon]

*Looks down at sig*

[Theory of Nonexistence]

Thats not a lightbulb, thats my auntie! Butter and eggs! BUTTER AND EGGS!!!!

Your auntie checks the cheeze-it factory for some cookie blankets!

[DeathBySpoon]

Am I the only one who's been really dissapointed with the music so far? The Yoshi's Story one is the only song so far that's actually pretty good. The menu music is just OK, and Ridley's theme sounds terrible. Normally it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but given the list of musicians we got, you'd think it'd be much much better.

[friendlyHunter]

Yep, I'd have to agree with you about the music. Seriously, if someone submitted any of those songs to OCR, would they make it past the judges? It's hard to tell from the 30-60 second clips, but I think only the Yoshi one would have a chance.

Of course, I'm not talking about the "main theme" songs that play during the trailers - they both sound amazing. They got my hopes WAY up for the rest of the game's music, as did the impressive list of composers. If you're an optimist, you can hope that they've only recently started the music, and the first few songs to come up on the site were relatively hastily thrown together - or simply posted unfinished for various reasons.

"Your Ridley arrangement features a suitable sense of cruelty and tension! I'm gonna post it tommorow, Japan time!"
"Um, sir- we're not done it yet, and it sounds like crap. It's still using an FL Slayer on the default settings and-"
"It’s magnificent! I-I... I want it!"
"But sir-"
"Be careful what you say, or you'll get knocked for a loop by a box madly rushing downhill!"

[Thylacine]

I didn't mind the Ridley music. It wasn't spectacular, of course, but it wasn't bad.

And I'm wondering if it's a case of "too many cooks" or something. A remix project without any WIP commentary, in terms this board can compare to? If that many artists are on board, I have to wonder who is going through these and checking they sound good. Or if game designers are taking a hands-off approach to things.

[defender!!]

"Your Ridley arrangement features a suitable sense of cruelty and tension! I'm gonna post it tommorow, Japan time!"
"Um, sir- we're not done it yet, and it sounds like crap. It's still using an FL Slayer on the default settings and-"
"It’s magnificent! I-I... I want it!"
"But sir-"
"Be careful what you say, or you'll get knocked for a loop by a box madly rushing downhill!"

this is fantastic

[Lord.Roderick.i]

which stage do you guys think this is?
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/samus/samus_070615b.jpg
It looks kinda like a Metroid stage to me, what do you guys think?

[Final_metroid]

which area in metroid has elegant temple-esque buldings in the background, as well as a sunny background

[Lord.Roderick.i]

I said kinda like Metroid, not exactly like.
And If Zero Mission would have been on 3D, I would say some Chozo like structure. during the day :P

[Dunther]

It's surely from Kid Icarus...

[ILLiterate]

which stage do you guys think this is?
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/samus/samus_070615b.jpg
It looks kinda like a Metroid stage to me, what do you guys think?It's the stage from the trailers in the sky where the platforms break and turn into clouds, probably a Pit stage

[KakTheInfected]

I wonder what kind of Metroid stages we'll get. How fucking awesome would Sanctuary Fortress be...or green Brinstar from Super Metroid.

[Eulogic]

I'd guess a Phendrana or Magmoor stage.

[Vidilian]

It's the stage from the trailers in the sky where the platforms break and turn into clouds, probably a Pit stage


I just noticed that. That means Pits got 2 stages in the game. This one and the one with a statue of Atlas in it. Quite a dent for someone who's been out of action for so long. Sakurai must think of him as an important character, despite that.

[atmuh]

i want a deedeedee boxing ring stage
please

[KWarp]

i want a deedeedee boxing ring stage
please
We've already got Metaknight and the Halberd. Nothing else is necessary. :roll:

[atmuh]

you cant tell me you dont want the ring

[FuriousFure]

now i don't like the weekends. bah. thanks alot Smashbros.com

[Dexie]

i want a deedeedee boxing ring stage
please

Won't happen. The boxing ring stage is going to belong to Little Mac, I would hope. :roll:

[Final_metroid]

I just noticed that. That means Pits got 2 stages in the game. This one and the one with a statue of Atlas in it. Quite a dent for someone who's been out of action for so long. Sakurai must think of him as an important character, despite that.

Thats a fire emblem stage, in the background the drapes have a symbol from fire emblem on them

[Zup]

Thats a fire emblem stage, in the background the drapes have a symbol from fire emblem on them

Pray tell, what symbol are you talking about? The one we already discussed many, many pages ago, where it wasn't even close to any Fire Emblem symbol?

I mean, yes, it's quite possible that it's a fire emblem stage, but we don't know for sure.

[KWarp]

you cant tell me you dont want the ring
well maybe in adventure mode...

[Lord.Roderick.i]

Pray tell, what symbol are you talking about? The one we already discussed many, many pages ago, where it wasn't even close to any Fire Emblem symbol?

I mean, yes, it's quite possible that it's a fire emblem stage, but we don't know for sure.

It looks more like a FE stage than a KI stage, IMO
...
Just a thought, but wouldnt it be cool if Samus could transform into Dark Samus (MP2 and/or MP3) and use her Phazon abilities when using her Smash Attack?
This version of Samus is supposed to be more from The Metroid Prime series than the old series, so the Smash Attack could be Prime related.

[Strike911]

Pray tell, what symbol are you talking about? The one we already discussed many, many pages ago, where it wasn't even close to any Fire Emblem symbol?

I mean, yes, it's quite possible that it's a fire emblem stage, but we don't know for sure.

I know each faction in the FE games had a symbol, and while they weren't exactly that one, they were verrrrry close. It could be the one from the game coming out soon on wii. In my eyes it has to be a Fire Emblem stage simlpy because what other nintendo game involves castle sieges with catapults and flags with symbols on them. *shrugs* I guess we'll find out "officially", but my money is on FE.

[Ciel]

I haven't had much experience with those alternate modes in Smash, so I was kind of wondering if anyone really cares about Adventure mode or anything.

[linkspast]

I haven't had much experience with those alternate modes in Smash, so I was kind of wondering if anyone really cares about Adventure mode or anything.

Yes. Yes, I do

[Hum4n After All]

Mother of God!
More like the final money shot.
That is so frikkin' awesome!

[Final_metroid]

Links Final Smash, well I suppose its balanced to strike only one target but always hit, marios final smash moves fast enough that you can dodge roll through it

[Fishy]

Links Final Smash, well I suppose its balanced to strike only one target but always hit, marios final smash moves fast enough that you can dodge roll through it

Light shoots out from the Triforce on the back of Link’s hand, striking his opponents!

Note the plural of opponents. I think anyone who gets hit by the triforce gets stuck in it, so if he hits all 3 people with it, then they all get mauled.

[SetzerGabbiani]

It looks more like a FE stage than a KI stage, IMO
...
Just a thought, but wouldnt it be cool if Samus could transform into Dark Samus (MP2 and/or MP3) and use her Phazon abilities when using her Smash Attack?
This version of Samus is supposed to be more from The Metroid Prime series than the old series, so the Smash Attack could be Prime related.

Technically, I dont think Samus could go Dark as of MP/MP2, since Dark Samus is just Metroid Prime re-incarnate(or whatever term you want to use), correct me if I'm wrong, please.

And I agree with the Final Smash being Prime Related, if not SM related with the hyper beam, which it very well should be, but the annihilator beam would be my second choice imo...

[Final_metroid]

Note the plural of opponents. I think anyone who gets hit by the triforce gets stuck in it, so if he hits all 3 people with it, then they all get mauled.

Opponents could just mean that it is an attack that can be directed against them, not necessarily all of them simultaneously

[Arek the Absolute]

you guys are reading too much into it

[eternal Zero]

The plural in opponents means that Link is competing against more than one person in the Smash realm...not necessarily that he'll be able to hit multiple people with his final smash. This does bring up an issue, however.

From what I'm seeing, this final smash involves a cinematic. I'm not exactly for nor against having cinematics in fighting games, but that does have the potential of not only screwing over the person who's getting hit, but anyone who isn't mentally capable of the whole stop and go part of cinematics and could lose a combo over it or just outright die because it gave their opponent the edge he/she needed.

[Drack]

The plural in opponents means that Link is competing against more than one person in the Smash realm...not necessarily that he'll be able to hit multiple people with his final smash. This does bring up an issue, however.

From what I'm seeing, this final smash involves a cinematic. I'm not exactly for nor against having cinematics in fighting games, but that does have the potential of not only screwing over the person who's getting hit, but anyone who isn't mentally capable of the whole stop and go part of cinematics and could lose a combo over it or just outright die because it gave their opponent the edge he/she needed.

I don't think it will stop the flow. Too much is going on in a 4 player fighter to do that, for the reasons you described above. For a 1v1 fighter it works, but I think they're just making it dominate the camera because either
1) The camera is only set to be as wide as it needs to be and these are the only players active or
2) They hardwired it to do that to show more detail on the screenshots and trailer.

[eternal Zero]

Then what do you think of the idea of a final smash being susceptible to an interrupt? Would it be in a similar fashion to a hammer where only a certain strategy can stop it, or you're just outright screwed when it happens.

[Drack]

Imo it should be interruptible, but for something like Link's the interrupting blow would have to be from someone other than the guy stuck in it.

Also we don't know about the item that activates it. It could be that their next forward smash becomes a final smash. KOing them before they do one could be considered an "interrupt" perhaps.

[anthonium]

I agree, if these super smashes do enable cut scenes throughout a fight I'll be disappointed. I want nonstop fluid action and perhaps someone else (a teammate) being able to hit the person doing the super smash on your teammate which will stop it before it does more damage. Hopefully they are showing it this way just so you can get a better look at it.

[dsx100]

I am agianst the idea of having cutscenes in 4 player mode. In single player or 1 on 1 it wouldn't be so bad, it would actually look pretty cool. But like people said before, having a cutscene during a 4 player could screw up someone's momentum, break a combo, or cause someone to die and that would be quite irritating. I think the screens where zoomed in to show the detail of the move. I doubt it will be like that in the actual game but who knows for sure until it comes out.

[Sir_NutS]

Geez, kids do you think sakurai would be so dumb to put something like a cinematic move in a fast-paced game like smash bros? dear lord...

All photos in the website are fixed to show something in particular, so why do you think this one is any different? ROFLNUB!11!!!

[Neo Samus]

Imo it should be interruptible, but for something like Link's the interrupting blow would have to be from someone other than the guy stuck in it.

Also we don't know about the item that activates it. It could be that their next forward smash becomes a final smash. KOing them before they do one could be considered an "interrupt" perhaps.

That sound's like the logical thing to do. Plus it adds a strategy to that mechanic. It will be interesting how it will be implemented.

[Raziellink]

you guys are reading too much into it

tencharacterlimit.

[Neo Samus]

tencharacterlimit.

I see what you did there.

[Strike911]

Cut scenes? Please. Maybe an interrupt, but that's it. Seriously, just because the screenshots show something up close doesn't mean that's how it'll be in game. Hell, half the screenshots are at a 3/4 camera pan view from the side, and there's no way that's feasible except in Camera Mode. . . . . Did anyone even use Camera mode?!

I wonder how long we'll be getting recycled trailer info.

"And here is the wall texture we used in the castle! It looks very much like bricks! Don't you want to step on them? - Sakurai"

/sarcasm

[FuriousFure]

well, i think it'll put more weight on the final smash if there is a slow-mo "cinematic" like samus charging up. and then it would zoom back out to normal view and the other people would have like a second to get the hell outta the way.

with kirby's it'll be sorta anti-climatic with out the zoomed in shot. oh and i think the person will get boiled and then fly straight up like a cartoon character for a star-KO.

[Dunther]

I want an option at the end of the fight that ask you if you want to save a record of it!!!!

[Drack]

I want an option at the end of the fight that ask you if you want to save a record of it!!!!

As in, a video?

Not possible, too much processor time and memory would be consumed into encoding and storing it.

Unless it just stores controller input and any other nondeterministic info, that is. Then it COULD work, but is still unlikely imo.

[Arek the Absolute]

I want an option at the end of the fight that ask you if you want to save a record of it!!!!
What are you talking about? Records were saved in Melee. Just register your name before entering a match.

Yes, I know what you actually meant, but I just wanted to zing you.

[Dunther]

As in, a video?

Not possible, too much processor time and memory would be consumed into encoding and storing it.

Unless it just stores controller input and any other nondeterministic info, that is. Then it COULD work, but is still unlikely imo.

Well maybe not an avi...but something that reproduces exactly the events of the fight...

[Effector]

Well maybe not an avi...but something that reproduces exactly the events of the fight...

Right, this is what Bungie is doing with Halo 3. It takes far less space and power to just store the actions and positions of the characters than recording a video of the animations. I mean, look at racing games, even down to Mario Kart - those are procedurally (is that the term I want here) generated, not a video recording, per say.

Seems feasible, and I think I'd rather enjoy it.

[gamklr]

Right, this is what Bungie is doing with Halo 3. It takes far less space and power to just store the actions and positions of the characters than recording a video of the animations. I mean, look at racing games, even down to Mario Kart - those are procedurally (is that the term I want here) generated, not a video recording, per say.

Seems feasible, and I think I'd rather enjoy it.

This was used in Street Fighter: Anniversary Collection for SF3: 3rd Strike. You could save a 'replay' of any versus match (it just saved the input and the characters, then played it back). However, sometimes the data would become 'corrupt'...

The problem with it is that it didn't really become corrupted, but rather it wasn't registering all of the player input because of button mashing or something similar. I can only hope the same problem doesn't happen if they did something similar for Brawl...

New Snapshot mode with short (or long) video options?

[friendlyHunter]

Replays would be pretty nice, might be useful or fun to watch parts in slow motion, zoomed in or what have you. I know StarCraft has replays (although they don't always turn out quite the same as the original game =p), and Warcraft 3 manages to save replays that actually work. I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think either or both games' replay files become obsolete (and hence unplayable) when a new patch is downloaded.

What they should do (and I actually see this as a possibility) is have an option to make it so you can take a snapshot at any time by pressing a certain button. All the controller schemes have at least one unused button, I think... Heck, that'd be an awsome feature for the Wii - playing a virtual console game and you find some extraordinary bug, or do something insane: snap a screenshot! I've never owned an XBOX, 360, or PS3 - hell, I don't think I've ever TYPED the words "XBOX" before; I don't know how that capitalization is supposed to go =\
Do any consoles already have screenshot feature (that doesn't require modding)? Sorry, that's getting REALLY off topic (but it's not like this thread actually HAS a stable topic to begin with...)


As for Link's Final Smash: Nothing surprising, most of that info could be deduced (and if you feel like it searching for it in this thread, deduced by me :)!!) from the trailer. I kind of like how they attempted to incorperate a LOZ "story" element (sort of) with the triforce on his hand stuff. I read "opponents" as being able to trap more than one, but who's to say that's the correct interpretation?


Anyway, here's my educated guess of what Fox's final smash will be:
*tkch*
Peppy: Do a barrel roll!
*tkch*
(Fox then proceeds to do a barell roll, destroying all other players with his awsomeness)

[Lord.Roderick.i]

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/link/link_070618d-l.jpg
Look at that pic, maybe thats how you can hit multiple opponents.


Anyway, here's my educated guess of what Fox's final smash will be:
*tkch*
Peppy: Do a barrel roll!
*tkch*
(Fox then proceeds to do a barell roll, destroying all other players with his awsomeness)

Lol, that would be really cool. :D

[Cerrax]

If Nintendo really wanted toput in a replay mode, they would. The Driver series has been doing it for years without flaw. Its not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. Excite truck even has a replay mode (biut its not as advanced as Driver's)

[linkspast]

Ya know It could be a long time before we get anything significant, in the ways of info...

[Hum4n After All]

Man waiting sucks.
Almost there.

[KakTheInfected]

I'm waiting to hear more music...hopefully something from F-Zero or Fire Emblem.

[atmuh]

stop with these retarded final smashes

[Hum4n After All]

Pikachu's final smash is a let down for me.
I was hoping for more of a giant thunderstorm destroying everybody.
Hmmm oh well.
Still cool.

[linkspast]

Really... I just want to play the game... I can learn about the game by my self. or with 4 others.

But I just want to play... or know Snakes FS

[FuriousFure]

well that takes away any chance of a cinematic final smash (other than the charge up) cause other wise how could someone cancel it in midair?

[Hum4n After All]

This "cancellation" business may start something.
Like it actually being canceled by an opponent or it just canceling because the Final Smash finished.

[Strike911]

Good times. Looks like there will be quite a bit of variety in Final smashes. :)

Well, at least we got some new info this time. ^^

[Raziellink]

I think that the thing about being cancelled in mid-air only means that you should be careful when playing Pikachu, for not falling off the arena.

Though it makes you wonder what might cancel a Final Smash...

[eternal Zero]

I knew it was either volt tackle or surf and THANK GOD it wasn't surf.

[Dunther]

I knew it was either volt tackle or surf and THANK GOD it wasn't surf.

Pikachu with surf °-° awesome...

[JoeFu]

Pikachu with surf would have been amazing.

[Arek the Absolute]

volt tackle looks retarded
so mario can do a hao shokoken *or for you non KoF people kameamahehahahalihelkjdkla or whatever goku says* and stays perfectly safe by not moving but pikachus final smash can kill him if messing up while using it
nice no not really

[eternal Zero]

Pikachu's has more potential to hunt down a specific target or go for a battle and probably has a decent duration to it unlike Mario's which seems to be a one-shot deal which could be limited if you want a specific kill and could only deal damage across the board which could be feeding your opponents the kills...this is all considering that winning isn't enough for you and kill count is key. Also, it reminds me of Pikachu's Agility (Up+B) where a nub could kill himself easily.

[Sir_NutS]

volt tackle looks retarded
so mario can do a hao shokoken *or for you non KoF people kameamahehahahalihelkjdkla or whatever goku says* and stays perfectly safe by not moving but pikachus final smash can kill him if messing up while using it
nice no not really

Some characters have their disadvantages but also they have their own advantages, take ness for example, he can propel himself by getting hit by his own power, which isn't very easy to do and has the danger of making him fall in an unwanted place. This works exactly like fox's up+b power but without all the hassle, but ness' moves packs more punch, and ness has his own strenghts on his own.

So while it may look like pikachu is in disadvantage, I'm sure there will be something else to balance the incontrolable nature of his final smash, like making it do more damage than other "easier" final smashes. The ability to control his direction is already a plus imho.

Anywways, this was a nice update.

[Dhsu]

Once again the captions are the best parts of the updates.

HUNT THEM! HUNT THEM DOWN!

[JoeFu]

Once again the captions are the best parts of the updates.

HUNT THEM! HUNT THEM DOWN!


My favorites are bambambambamBAM and the recent SKRAAAAAAAAAAAH

[Scufo]

This I like. Final Smashes that don't stop the action.

gj nintendo

[friendlyHunter]

Why would Nintendo make final smashes stop the action? You must be pretty cynical to- Oh wait...



It looks like the Final Smashes all have an element of "hunt them down" that depends heavily on the stage, much like the hammer item. But this is bound to be a much more important and complex part of the gameplay than a mere hammer. I'm just hoping they manage to do a REALLY good job of it, especially when you consider all the balancing issues that come into play with these moves: characters that jump higher, or who float like Peach, could perhaps easily evade Mario's Final Smash. Fast characters may be able to easily evade Link's. And etc. ...But I'm still pretty confident they know what they're doing.

[Sir_NutS]

Why would Nintendo make final smashes stop the action? You must be pretty cynical to- Oh wait...



It looks like the Final Smashes all have an element of "hunt them down" that depends heavily on the stage, much like the hammer item. But this is bound to be a much more important and complex part of the gameplay than a mere hammer. I'm just hoping they manage to do a REALLY good job of it, especially when you consider all the balancing issues that come into play with these moves: characters that jump higher, or who float like Peach, could perhaps easily evade Mario's Final Smash. Fast characters may be able to easily evade Link's. And etc. ...But I'm still pretty confident they know what they're doing.

Well there should be a way to avoid final smashes, they can't really be end-all moves. Otherwise players would just go around in circles through the stage waiting for the final smash item to appear.

I think they will make them very powerfull moves that can get anyone get in the red, but not something unavoidable. It would make the fights too centric on that.

[Shining Mirage]

its really quick
not much of an opening
definitely not as much as others

and i was talking about competitive 1 on 1

Oh, well, you'll be dealing damage by the shitload if you hit 'em at least twice...

...Three times is "a bit critical"?

What do you say, Atma? (I'd keep rammin' 'em until they start bitching, but that's just me.)

[atmuh]

what the heck are you talking about

[Zephyr]

I'm glad they're only usable once a fight too, plus smash balls are an item so they can be turned off too, that's a good thing.

[atmuh]

looks like wario can eat people
or something

[FuriousFure]

Wario's like a Ninja with his martial arts: Silent but Deadly.

[Raziellink]

Wario's like a Ninja with his farts: Silent but Deadly.


Fixed

tententen.

[Rambo]

Martial farts? Lawl

I hope they post some more stages. They obviously wont give away any characters not currently in the trailers. Stages however...

[anthonium]

lmao Wario. Looks like he'll have some funky ass moves. I'm sure he'll become a favorite among people. They should add that butt dancing move from one of the WarioWare Wii bosses.

[eternal Zero]

That one pic of him chasing Kirby needs the timeless caption "GET IN MA' BELLY!"

[Neo Samus]

That one pic of him chasing Kirby needs the timeless caption "GET IN MA' BELLY!"

While Kibry's thinking "WTF! That's my move!!"

[Lord.Roderick.i]

That one pic of him chasing Kirby needs the timeless caption "GET IN MA' BELLY!"
While Kibry's thinking "WTF! That's my move!!"Lol
I think he will just bite players, I dont think he'll actually eat them. right?

[Zaxter]

While Kibry's thinking "WTF! That's my move!!"
In Soviet Russia, YOU eat Kirby!

[Neo Samus]

It would be funny if Kirby got Wario's massive teeth when he copies him.

[Final_metroid]

most probably he just gets his helmet

[FuriousFure]

fox's moves! alright! although i do wanna hear part of warios theme songs.

speaking of which, warios stage is going to be absolute insanity.

[Strike911]

Interesting... fox's moves. Nice to see more pics, but... still nothing really new coming from that except validation that the thing on his waist is indeed the reflector.

Haha, I'm laughing my ass off so bad at the very premise of a Wario stage. How awesome would it be if the stage was comprised of random minigames you have to battle inside of and avoid stuff from each one. Haha. How awesome. Here's hoping for something like that. In fact, you could probably throw in a whole bunch of games from the NES to fight in that you could switch between just in his level alone. hehehe. I'm looking forward to seeing how they handle his levels... hopefully its not some random level from one of his Virtual Boy games or anything... -_-

[eternal Zero]

Thank God I was right about his reflector not being a mine. The shape and color were dead giveaways, but still, I wouldn't quite enjoy having a different moveset on Fox. By the look of his blaster and how it hasn't changed in terms of gameplay, I do think Falco will still be present...but probably changed in some substantial manner.

[JoeFu]

Well... this would be the only update I would call lame. We all know Fox's moves already. At least Wario's special moves would have been better because we don't know his.


ROFL, more awesome captions in this one.

Did you notice that thing dangling from Fox’s waist?

[Theory of Nonexistence]

So far, he's pretty much exactly the same...

Yeah, so I had a dream last night that had SSBB in it and...It had the original Smash characters + Bowser or something and "Mii Samurai" ...

He kinda looked like Poo from Earthbound except cooler and no limbs. Just hands and feet.
weird stuff.

[Drack]

Did Fox's blaster steal KO credit in Melee?

Never had anyone use that strat against me.

EDIT:
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/fox/fox_070621b.jpg
Looks like Zero Suit Samus will shoot in addition to that melee beam we saw in the E3 video. Perhaps we will see the stun pistol used in Metroid ZM.

[eternal Zero]

Yes it did. KO credit is given to the person who last dealt damage. I've had my fun jumping off the edge so I could spike and steal a kill when I already had enough stock to allow a wasted life, but using Fox's blaster is pretty tough in terms of KSing...Falco's was better suited because it had a form of knockback even though it allowed them to perform another Up+B.

[Drack]

The reason I asked was because Fox's blaster is a zero knockback move. I don't think other zero-knockback effects like Lip's Stick flowers stole KOs in Melee.

[The Mutericator]

fox's moves! alright! although i do wanna hear part of warios theme songs.

speaking of which, warios stage is going to be absolute insanity.

It had better be Kitchen Island. Please let Kitchen Island be at least a cameo.

[Eten]

This... daily weekday updates is just a way to generate hype. And it is working. I'm starting to get really excited about Brawl. o_o

[atmuh]

so I had a dream last night that had SSBB in it

woooooooooooooow

[eternal Zero]

The reason I asked was because Fox's blaster is a zero knockback move. I don't think other zero-knockback effects like Lip's Stick flowers stole KOs in Melee.

I'm not certain about the flower generated from Lip's Stick...I don't think it should...but it might.

[atmuh]

why do kos even matter
do you people honestly play time matches?

[megadave]

Sometimes.

[Eten]

Yeah see I play time matches all the time...

Cause I forget to switch it to stock.

Time matches are all right if you are doing a FFA and you set the Self-destruct to -2. It makes boring people more aggressive, and since you'll never be out of the game until the timer ends, it can be more exciting all around.

But otherwise stock is better than time.

[The Mutericator]

Yeah see I play time matches all the time...

Cause I forget to switch it to stock.

Time matches are all right if you are doing a FFA and you set the Self-destruct to -2. It makes boring people more aggressive, and since you'll never be out of the game until the timer ends, it can be more exciting all around.

But otherwise stock is better than time.

Agreed. No one I know plays Time instead of Stock, everyone likes Stock at either five or seven lives each. Every damn time, in all three groups I play with.

[FuriousFure]

Yeah see I play time matches all the time...

Cause I forget to switch it to stock.

Time matches are all right if you are doing a FFA and you set the Self-destruct to -2. It makes boring people more aggressive, and since you'll never be out of the game until the timer ends, it can be more exciting all around.

But otherwise stock is better than time.

its so true, if its stock some people will just sit around and let other people fight it out. saving their lifes.

1v1 = both is good. 1v1v1v1 = timer is better.

btw epic maxed-out stock (99) matches are AWESOME. my favorite was a falco versus fox stand off on peaches castle.

[atmuh]

if you dont go to retarded huge stages like the temple people cant run away
just turn on only the neutral tournament stages and no one can run no matter what you do

[anthonium]

IGN has a new interesting segment they call Smash It Up!

Today they released "Volume 1" of it and they discuss the possibility of some characters making it in the game. Of course it's all speculation but that's what keeps the hype going! Check it out!
(http://wii.ign.com/articles/798/798662p1.html)

[Strike911]

Yeah, so I had a dream last night that had SSBB in it and...It had the original Smash characters + Bowser or something and "Mii Samurai" ...



Oh God... I hope they don't let you play as Miis.... I really hope they don't.... >_<

I mean, maybe give the WireFrame characters Mii heads, that'd be okay... but... I dunno... I'll stop talking now.

[FuriousFure]

if you dont go to retarded huge stages like the temple people cant run away
just turn on only the neutral tournament stages and no one can run no matter what you do

its not that people will run aways its that people, if they want, can sit out of fights with no consequences. with a timed match there is consequence for avoiding fights.

btw the words No Contest makes me angrier than pretty much anything else.

[ILLiterate]

IGN has a new interesting segment they call Smash It Up!

Today they released "Volume 1" of it and they discuss the possibility of some characters making it in the game. Of course it's all speculation but that's what keeps the hype going! Check it out!
(http://wii.ign.com/articles/798/798662p1.html)Seriously the worst article on Smash I've ever read

[Linkjing Donuts]

Did Fox's blaster steal KO credit in Melee?

Never had anyone use that strat against me.

EDIT:
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/fox/fox_070621b.jpg
Looks like Zero Suit Samus will shoot in addition to that melee beam we saw in the E3 video. Perhaps we will see the stun pistol used in Metroid ZM.
it's a replacement for sheik's needles

[KakTheInfected]

Woah, Lylat Cruise looks amazing.

[Arek the Absolute]

ok so are all the fucking stages in smash the fucking same?
two or three platforms and the ground each god damn time
they all look the same with changing BACKGROUNDS
brawl is looking more and more retarded

what happened to the stage designs of melee? those were awesome stages
now its just three platforms and the floor each god damn stage. nothing is different except the animated background
lame

[Hobocop]

This is among the best I could have hoped for in terms of these type of updates. And here I was thinking that the previous space-style level images were a godsend. As I have a huge interest in astronomy, I bet I'll just sit frozen in awe the first time I see this in-game. Reminds me of Star Wars though... but then again I haven't really played Starfox...

[KakTheInfected]

Arek: Calm down lil fella. If Brawl has more stages than Melee (pretty likely), we haven't seen much of anything so far.

[Arek the Absolute]

psh whatever
the stages dont impress me
melee had variety and so far this seems to be lacking it hard

[cobaltstarfire]

Well there is the yoshi stage with a single platform in the middle?

That's different neh neh?

[Thylacine]

psh whatever
the stages dont impress me
melee had variety and so far this seems to be lacking it hardThere is the very strong possibility they're saving the juicy stuff for later. They haven't exactly dropped bombs with anything yet, but that doesn't mean they aren't there.

They could be building up the awesome.

[Strike911]

gotta be honest, That's freaking tight ass level from what I can tell. Love the space battle things going on in the backgruond... damn... awesome!

Gotta agree though with the platform business, but really, they haven't even showed more than a handful of characters, no doubt in my mind there is better stuff they're not showing. :) No worries here.

[watkinzez]

Scuse me developers.
Why can't all Wii games look like this?

[Lord.Roderick.i]

So far from the IGN list of companies that are going to E3, the Nintendo is TBA and IGN says that the list is final and wont be updated anymore, so. (Blizzard is not on the list either :[ )
So I wonder if the big N will show new surprises about Brawl on the show.
(Can I hope for more SC2 news :[? )

[Final_metroid]

One thing i noticed was there was only 3 people fighting on every stage, 3 would be a weird number and i;'m guessing that slightly hints towards camera mode coming back

[Ray Falling]

Wow, having seen the Starfox level...this calls for a full blown Starfox Wii game :) A good one...like Lylatwars...with many onrails levels...and no silly on foot missions...or bad voices...

*just goes to play Lylatwars instead*

[Dexie]

Scuse me developers.
Why can't all Wii games look like this?

Because most Wii games so far have been done by lazy developers trying to make a quick cash-in.

Ubisoft, I'm looking at you.

[dsx100]

Man this arena looks awsome. Its going to be real fun fighting as the stage goes through asteroid fields. The effects look very well done. These screens prove the Wii is capable of some nice looking graphics.

[Baleshadow]

The Star Fox stage is definitely foreshadowing a new entry to the series. Nice.

[The Mutericator]

Wow, having seen the Starfox level...this calls for a full blown Starfox Wii game :) A good one...like Lylatwars...with many onrails levels...and no silly on foot missions...or bad voices...

*just goes to play Lylatwars instead*

I am rather curious as to why everyone seems to think SF: Assault sucked so bad and why on-rails is OMGTEHBESTEVAR!!!! Personally, I rather liked SF64, but I liked Assault more - the on-foot missions were well-done, and the multiplayer was near perfect. In fact, I daresay the only boring part about the game was the Arwing-only multiplayer dogfights, because you had such a limited repetoire of moves and strategies.

[Drack]

One thing i noticed was there was only 3 people fighting on every stage, 3 would be a weird number and i;'m guessing that slightly hints towards camera mode coming back

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/stages/images/stage04/stage04_070622c.jpg
Fox, Wario, Samus, Kirby = 4 players.

[Ray Falling]

I am rather curious as to why everyone seems to think SF: Assault sucked so bad and why on-rails is OMGTEHBESTEVAR!!!! Personally, I rather liked SF64, but I liked Assault more - the on-foot missions were well-done, and the multiplayer was near perfect. In fact, I daresay the only boring part about the game was the Arwing-only multiplayer dogfights, because you had such a limited repetoire of moves and strategies.

No don't get me wrong, I don't hate it, and I used to be like you, wondering why the heck people did hate the on foot missions. I did enjoy them too at the beginning.

Now, about 2 years later, playing it again is just ARGH. There are many things wrong with the whole system and everything feels really weird compared to SF64, in my opinion.
I just didn't really like how certain things were executed in Assault which is why I don't find the game interesting enough to keep playing, whereas SF64, I still play even today.

Assault has its good moments, but they shouldn't have let Namco work on the game.
The old formula worked much better for me.

Anyway, I'm not that kinda hater and I don't swear by on rails. Just being myself and not enjoying it as much as SF64 :)

[Infinity's End]

There is the very strong possibility they're saving the juicy stuff for later. They haven't exactly dropped bombs with anything yet, but that doesn't mean they aren't there.

They could be building up the awesome.

Well said, Thylacine (that's a Tasmanian Wolf, right?) You gotta consider they're going to tell us everything WE ALREADY KNOW first, before they start releasing new tidbits. So far, the only things they have released that are completely new, are music and weapons. Every other thing on the site we have already known about for months. Consider all the characters and put a day with each of them.

Mario, Wario, Link, Samus, Zero-Suit Samus, Fox, Snake, Kirby, Pikachu, Meta Knight... the list goes on.

Each character = 1 day, so do the math. You all know Luigi's coming back, and so will Capt. Falcon, Ness, and the original "crew." I believe Sakurai-san said that himself. So once you have 20 things to talk about, there's a month. 40 things? 2 months... and so on and so forth until everything they have shown us that WE ALREADY KNOW about is revealed (yet again)... then, after all that time.... they will FINALLY show us new stuff. New characters, game modes, etc...

Have some patience, it's gonna be a while. At least not until end of summer/beginning of fall.

[Drack]

I am rather curious as to why everyone seems to think SF: Assault sucked so bad and why on-rails is OMGTEHBESTEVAR!!!! Personally, I rather liked SF64, but I liked Assault more - the on-foot missions were well-done, and the multiplayer was near perfect. In fact, I daresay the only boring part about the game was the Arwing-only multiplayer dogfights, because you had such a limited repetoire of moves and strategies.
The presence or lack of On-Rails levels was not what made SF64 a spectacular game and Assault a lackluster one. SF64 had quite a bit of All Range Mode, and Assault had a decent amount of on-rails missions. What ruined Assault was the story, voice acting, characterization, and controls. It had the look (to an extent) but not the spirit of a Star Fox game.

[FuriousFure]

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/stages/images/stage04/stage04_070622c.jpg


okay so look at wario. at first i thought he was being knocked back like fox and kirby. but then i realized that characters being knocked back would flip around perpendicular to the camera's view. (in the 2d) and wario was flipping in the third direction, parrallel with the cameras view.

so does that mean wario will have a move like bowser? or is he just barrel rolling? if its a move. wha could be the move in that other picture were he's straight upside down?

hmmm...

[Drack]

okay so look at wario. at first i thought he was being knocked back like fox and kirby. but then i realized that characters being knocked back would flip around perpendicular to the camera's view. (in the 2d) and wario was flipping in the third direction, parrallel with the cameras view.

so does that mean wario will have a move like bowser? or is he just barrel rolling? if its a move. wha could be the move in that other picture were he's straight upside down?

hmmm...

Look at what the other characters are doing. Fox is teetering on the edge of the platform like an idiot, Samus looks to be recovering from an attempted grapple beam grab, Kirby is falling. None of them could have hit Wario the last second or two. I do believe Wario is doing an aerial attack, a body slam.

[Strike911]

The presence or lack of On-Rails levels was not what made SF64 a spectacular game and Assault a lackluster one. SF64 had quite a bit of All Range Mode, and Assault had a decent amount of on-rails missions. What ruined Assault was the story, voice acting, characterization, and controls. It had the look (to an extent) but not the spirit of a Star Fox game.

I agree with you 90%. Difference being that I do think the lack of on rails missions severly hurt the feel of the game. Yes, SF64 had a good number of all range missions, but it was evened out with railed missions. Furthermore, we didn't have all-range foot missions in SF64... which totally sucked in Assualt. The fact of the matter is that Assault doesn't feel like a Starfox game at its core, and that includes all of the reasons you specified up there. It was a departure. They need to hit those points and get a correct ratio of on-rails levels to all-range levels. I mean, lets face it, up to StarFox 1 and Starfox64 the on rails missions made the title a "StarFox" game. The lack of them turned it into something a little more generic imo and less unique. Of course, the horrendous controls, bad story, and characters that just weren't interesting were equally important in this game's nosedive. I did like the orchestrated tracks though. hehe... and the very first level. haha.

And it makes me so sad too, because I was such a HUUGE fan of the original and Starfox64. and now... my money is that the Starfox series will never go back to its former glory. -_-

*holds candle in the air*

Seriously though, of all the games from older generations StarFox64 has really aged well, and I can still happily play it anytime I want. I still do on occasion, and I don't typically jump on to my older systems when I have new games to play, but StarFox64 is just something Nintendo had down real well.

/offtopic

[FuriousFure]

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/stages/images/stage04/stage04_070622c.jpg

i just thought of something. so what if during re-entry all players would get hurt from the fiery-ness and the players damage percentages would go up.

i think that kind of stage interaction would be sweet.

[Dhsu]

Unavoidable damage = fail.

If you had to avoid it though it would be cool.

[Strike911]

yeah, that's be pretty cool if you got near the areas that were flaming that you'd take damage. In fact, that'd be real cooo. :) I don't know if I like unavoidable damage though either.

[FuriousFure]

Just an idea, fellas I thought unavoidable damage would just crank up the intensity. All of the sudden its like a sudden death.

Then when you get into the high atsmophere. some healing items would drop down or something...

bah.


I think anykind of stage interaction is cool.

[Final_metroid]

I think stage interaction would be included in the description of the stage. Indicated by some grammatically hilarious quote

i.e. Zebes: The acid from the bottom comes up sometimes! It's so hot that it will burn you! Quick! Quick! Jump to the top!!

[V___]

Your auntie checks the cheeze-it factory for some cookie blankets!

Your a sick SICK man, but a cookie in the cover of night makes the ninjas footsteps crunchy...

[friendlyHunter]

The acid from the bottom comes up sometimes! It's so hot that it will burn you! Quick! Quick! Jump to the top!!

Woah, for a second I thought I'd missed an update!


I don't know how likely this is, but MAYBE each series will have a tournament-like stage (like all the ones we've seen), and a more different stage. Or maybe they just found that Final Smashes don't work so well on stages that are more different? I can totally see the possibility of Brawls' gameplay simply "not working" (well) with weird stages. However I'm hoping they do have some more interesting things in them (SSB1-type things like the moving platform and bumper on Peach's castle, I'm not talking about instant-kill tornados or Pokefloat levels). That reminds me: I hope they have some good pokemon music this time - I played one of the gameboy games a bit back in the day when everybody did, and I absolutely loved the music, especially the battle themes. So far none of the Smash Bros. Pokemon songs have come close to the quality of those energetic little chiptunes...


Anyway, stages... I'm hoping there's a Metroid stage that has something to do with a Metroid game, rather than some random cave with random science-fiction-ish crap strewn about. For instance, they could put metroid-style doors on one or both sides of the stage, or even on the floor - attack the doors to open them for 10-20 seconds, leaving a perilous gap! Metroid is famous for its breakable walls/floors and secret paths - with Pit's destructable stage in Brawl, a heavily desctructable Metroid stage seems likely (no, that one in Melee was NOT destructable!!). Heck, they could simply make platforms and walls that LOOK like they've come from a Metroid game, and I'd be happy =)

On that note... The Chozo temple above the impact crater in Metroid Prime 1 would be absoletely perfect for a Brawl level.
Wide open space? Check.
Gigantic pit? Check.
Single flat platform? Check.
Add some destructable pillars on it, and you've got yourself an interesting level. Not to mention the amazing atmosphere they could achieve (rain goes on, rain goes off!), and the place's major significance in the Metroid Prime series' plot. It could even have Ridley fly in occasionaly!


One thing I really DON'T like about the current shown stages is that they're all completely symetrical. I mean, does asymetry really hurt tournament play AT ALL? Must hitting your opponent to the left have exactly the same conseqences as hitting your opponent to the right? Does "you must recover" on the left edge have to be EXACTLY the same as on the right edge? They've gotta get more variation in there or it'll suffer some serious boringness. The stages so far, it seems, have very little potential for strategy... I'll applaud the tilting platform in Yoshi's stage though, and it appears the Pokemon Stadium's platforms change around (the platforms are in different places in some screenshots).


[Edit]

Just when I thought this post couldn't get any more bloated:
Brawl needs a Bowser's Castle stage! Spinning sticks of fire, podoboos jumping out of the lava, maybe a bridge, those orange elevator platforms - there are tons of possibilties. It could work insanely well in either 8-bit style (like those SMB1 and 2 stages in Melee), or a realistic graphical style like the Starfox stage. Even something as simple as a tilting platform surrounded in lava (the rooms where you fight some of the Koopa Kids in Super Mario World) would be great =D

[Eten]

Yeah, no, I love how they are keeping it to tournament style stages.

Look by example: Infinite Glacier got old within a couple days of Melee, and Poke Floats was never popular. Then you get some more decent stages that just became cheese after a while- the stages where you could walk off the edge of the screen. People would hang out on the edge where you can't see them except for the obscuring bubble, grab you and toss you a forced minimum distance off the edge. Didn't really fit the style of SSB, you've got to have ledges.

Check out Venom. Now you think... okay, should be good. Except it isn't, and is one of the most frustrating stages of the whole bunch. Fighting on slopes in melee is just a mess.

Back up and let us look at a *great* stage. Fountain of Dreams(ignoring 2v2 frame rate problems). It was visually appealing, simple in design with a good middle distance from the blastline, a variation on the ledges and under the stage compared to the standard "battlefield"(FoD is very "deep", fun chances at spike recovery), and variable height platforms(really cool since different heights change alot of different options for characters to do platform related stuff).

Tournament stages have more to them than just different themes applied to battlefield. And they make for great gameplay. But oh, yeah, nothing wrong with a bit of Asymmetry(I <3 windmill stage on Pokemon Stadium. Pokemon stadium was like 3 good stages in one.)

[cobaltstarfire]

I kind of enjoyed the poke-floats, granted not all the time, just for fun though it's nifty with all the jumping and dodging around.

While most of those stages are more of a novelty, I would be sad to see those sorts of gimmicky stages avoided, in favor of only "tournament style" stages. They're just a nice change of pace to play on for shits and giggles.

It'd be nice if they kept a nice mix of both sorts of stages in this game too.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Hyrule Temple is the greatest stage ever. I don't care what anybody says.

Also, they need to bring back Hyrule Castle and Peach's Castle from original SSB

[ILLiterate]

Hyrule Castle is THE best

[friendlyHunter]

The thing that made SSB1 stages like Hyrule Castle great was that they were simple, yet so varied and interesting. That part of the castle with the tower alone made it a great level. What Brawl needs are some stages with walls and varied ground height like that, instead of the main platform always being flat. Again, maybe walls simply don't lend themselves to Brawls gameplay... but we'll see. It seems, at the moment, that Brawl's stages (that they've so far revealed) are neither varied nor interesting - but gameplay-wise they're probably a LOT more varied than they look. But again, who knows....

[Lord.Roderick.i]

Hyrule Temple is the greatest stage ever. I don't care what anybody says.

Also, they need to bring back Hyrule Castle and Peach's Castle from original SSB
I so totally agree w/ you. I enjoyed them so much more than battlefield.
It adds fun to the game, not everyone plays it just for tournies.
Actually I was thinking, that it would be really cool if there was a stage editor/creator in the game and you could share them worldwide through WiiConnect24.

[Ferret]

Speaking of Hyrule Temple I wonder if an orchestrated version of the Great Temple theme will be a secret stage music this time around. That would be nifty enough for me to fly to Japan, track these wonderful game developers down, and give each of them a hug and a cookie. Although by the time I found them the cookies might be stale, or eaten, but that doesn't really matter since I think they prefer rice crackers instead anyway :F

[atmuh]

hyrule temple sucked all you have to do is be someone quick and you can run far away from everything

[ThE Sa-X]

hyrule temple sucked all you have to do is be someone quick and you can run far away from everything

eeeeeeeexactly...

[friendlyHunter]

hyrule temple sucked all you have to do is be someone quick and you can run far away from everything
????????

If it's 1 on 1, running away does you no good. If it's a FFA, use time instead of stock and you'll lose if you run away. Or.... were you being sarcastic?

...I think Hyrule temple is great, but I'm not a fan of the underground part, I often find it frustrating trying to actually get someone in the pit down there. But without the underground bit, it doesn't really have anything to do with a Zelda 2 temple, does it?

[Jam Stunna]

????????

If it's 1 on 1, running away does you no good.

You obviously have not watched two noobs play a match on Hyrule Temple. It's the most long and frustrating match you'll ever see.

[Dunther]

There was great stages in the first SSB....I hope they take something from SSB and something from Melee...

[The Mutericator]

Yeah, no, I love how they are keeping it to tournament style stages.

Look by example: Infinite Glacier got old within a couple days of Melee, and Poke Floats was never popular. Then you get some more decent stages that just became cheese after a while- the stages where you could walk off the edge of the screen. People would hang out on the edge where you can't see them except for the obscuring bubble, grab you and toss you a forced minimum distance off the edge. Didn't really fit the style of SSB, you've got to have ledges.

Check out Venom. Now you think... okay, should be good. Except it isn't, and is one of the most frustrating stages of the whole bunch. Fighting on slopes in melee is just a mess.

Back up and let us look at a *great* stage. Fountain of Dreams(ignoring 2v2 frame rate problems). It was visually appealing, simple in design with a good middle distance from the blastline, a variation on the ledges and under the stage compared to the standard "battlefield"(FoD is very "deep", fun chances at spike recovery), and variable height platforms(really cool since different heights change alot of different options for characters to do platform related stuff).

Tournament stages have more to them than just different themes applied to battlefield. And they make for great gameplay. But oh, yeah, nothing wrong with a bit of Asymmetry(I <3 windmill stage on Pokemon Stadium. Pokemon stadium was like 3 good stages in one.)


But how many "tourney-style" stages can you have? Battlefield, Final Destination, Fountain of Dreams... ? That's all. There's no real need for anything else after those three, so why not just fill up the rest with more fun stages like Big Blue, PokeFloats, and Glacier Mountain?

(I'd like to chime in that Hyrule Temple is my all-time favorite spot, and no, it isn't easy to run away in that stage. Not appreciably, anyways.)

[!Nekko!]

Man, you people can find just about anything to complain about, can't you?

[Geoffrey Taucer]

If you want some real fun, play super sudden death on hyrule temple and hang out in the underground section. Especially if you're good at teching, it can make for some wicked fun matches (of course you have to either play time or set the number of stock to something obscenely high)

[Dunther]

If you want some real fun, play super sudden death on hyrule temple and hang out in the underground section. Especially if you're good at teching, it can make for some wicked fun matches (of course you have to either play time or set the number of stock to something obscenely high)

Sound interesting! I'll try it for sure!!

[Kureejii Lea]

If you want some real fun, play super sudden death on hyrule temple and hang out in the underground section. Especially if you're good at teching, it can make for some wicked fun matches (of course you have to either play time or set the number of stock to something obscenely high)

Oh, that's a total blast. I'd be surprised if more people don't do that.

[Lord.Roderick.i]

...I think Hyrule temple is great, but I'm not a fan of the underground part, I often find it frustrating trying to actually get someone in the pit down there. But without the underground bit, it doesn't really have anything to do with a Zelda 2 temple, does it?

I find the underground the most enjoyable part of the stage. Because when your percentage is very high, you get touched and bounce around the walls, its hilarious :lol:

[HideousBeing]

I find the underground the most enjoyable part of the stage. Because when your percentage is very high, you get touched and bounce around the walls, its hilarious :lol:
learn to tech and you won't bounce. press l before hitting a wall/ceiling and you'll regain control.

[Lord.Roderick.i]

learn to tech and you won't bounce. press l before hitting a wall/ceiling and you'll regain control.
Why would I do that? That fun thing is to bounce like crazy :P

[atmuh]

Why would I do that? That fun thing is to bounce like crazy :P

woooooooooooooow

[friendlyHunter]

Here's a question I've always asked but never recieved an answer for:

Why is the damage in Smash Bros. represented as a percent? Does 100 damage have any significance at all, or was it merely a dumb mistake? Does the % symbol mean something different in Japan? Is it some kind of an inside joke? Was it forced upon the developers by a massive terrorist organization? Is it a secret encypted message containing the list of Brawl characters? Why, I ask, why?

[Edit]

Oh wait, I think I just figured it out.... is it because when you're at 100% damage, you go flying 100% faster than when you're at 0%? Seems a reasonable theory.... has that ever been tested out? Or is it just common sense? =/

[Strike911]

Man, you people can find just about anything to complain about, can't you?

Hahahaha!! Quoted for emphasis! For realz!

[vega12]

Here's a question I've always asked but never recieved an answer for:

Why is the damage in Smash Bros. represented as a percent? Does 100 damage have any significance at all, or was it merely a dumb mistake? Does the % symbol mean something different in Japan? Is it some kind of an inside joke? Was it forced upon the developers by a massive terrorist organization? Is it a secret encypted message containing the list of Brawl characters? Why, I ask, why?

[Edit]

Oh wait, I think I just figured it out.... is it because when you're at 100% damage, you go flying 100% faster than when you're at 0%? Seems a reasonable theory.... has that ever been tested out? Or is it just common sense? =/

There's probably a few things that happen, but I believe if you ar eover 100%, recovering from a ledge is slower than if you are under. Instead of being able to jump up and attack quickly, you are more luggish. Outside that, I'm not sure.

[Cerrax]

I believe it directly corelates to how much the attacks affect y7ou. The attacks will have a 100% effect at 100% damage. So when you start at 0%, percent the attacks have little or no effects. their full original effect is felt at 100% and anything over 100% is and amplified effect.

[friendlyHunter]

I believe it directly corelates to how much the attacks affect y7ou.

But you see, the number 100 has no significance there. It seems likely you're right though....

[KakTheInfected]

I liked Zelda's old look better.

[StarZander]

Semi-new character! Woo!

[ILLiterate]

TP Zelda announced in Brawl, TP remix posted...

Anyways, looks good, mostly unchanged, I wonder if her recovery will still be rediculously good

[Strike911]

Wow, Zelda! That makes me happy!

She's almost a brunette now.

Well, I like the direction they took Zelda's look. I guess with Zero Suit Samus in there, they wanted to have another female character with a not-so-blonde hair color for variety. She looks much older... more confident looking from her facial expression than her version in melee, which imo seemed peaceful or pacifist, or perhaps I'm looking to far into this. I'm happy though. I like Zelda. ^_^

I wonder what her final smash is...

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I love the new look.

I wonder if this will be immediately followed up by a shiek profile tomorrow?

[Strike911]

I love the new look.

I wonder if this will be immediately followed up by a shiek profile tomorrow?

hehe!!! I wonder what a Twilight Princess/subdued color scheme for Shiek would look like. That prospect makes me pretty excited. What a wonderful way to start this week of updates.

[Raziellink]

Whatever happend to Peach...?

Not that i would miss her, it's just that Zelda has been announced before Peach.

[ThE Sa-X]

I personally am thinking that Zelda is not going to get a alternate persona. I think that Nintendo is sticking with the latest versions of their characters and since Shiek was not in Twilight Princess, I feel that it would be out of place to have Zelda designed as she was in Twilight Princess, to be transforming into an out-of-place Shiek with her looks updated.

I however think that SSBB's duel character will be Samus. I think that she will be able to de-suit herself if you will, and take on a more agile and melee focused form, as opposed to her ranged and quite sluggish suited form. You even see a fully suited samus in the trailer lose her suit and become "Zero-Suit Samus." I think that is a preview to how samus might play in SSBB.

[Ciel]

Sheik could be a stand-alone character, maybe?

[FuriousFure]

Sheik could be a stand-alone character, maybe?

that's what i'm thinking. although i do love the whole idea behind it because it really stuck with the storyline and was some-what of a inside "joke" for fans of the series.

as for samus being able to suit and de-suit. are you crazy? zero suit can already switch between a blaster and a whip. it would be just completely busy having her be able to that. it just seems very unlikely.

[Dunther]

I like the new Zelda but...Sheik?! Where is he!? I want him ç_ç

[megadave]

Zelda looks great. ^ And don't worry about Peach - she'll be there.

[Sir_NutS]

I like the new Zelda but...Sheik?! Where is he!? I want him ç_ç

Him? he? since when zelda can transgender at will? lol

Love the new look of hers.

[dsx100]

Man, I am loving the characters more and more every time I see them. They all look really good, both the renders and the screens. Zelda is no exception. I am glad they are using her Twilight Princess design. I would also have to agree with the others in that it would be wierd to have her transform into Sheik. Anyway, seeing as they decided to use the TP designs for Link and Zelda, I think they might do the same for Ganodorf. I think his TP design is very cool and I would personally love to see that design in Brawl.

[The Mutericator]

I'm betting Sheik is gone, replaced with a new Down+B move for Zelda... if they're using her Twilight Princess incarnation, I don't think they'll use Sheik.

Probably Light Arrows, I would expect.

EDIT:

And hear, hear, to a completely revamped Ganondorf, sword and all!

[megadave]

I can already hear the cries of millions of Ocarina fanboys. Anyway, aren't there supposed to be like 45 characters?

[Ray Falling]

Good to see Zelda back :)

I'm rather curious about the movesets of Brawl's characters now. I mean, it would make sense to keep with the classic moves but it would be very interesting to see an option of choosing different move sets(think regular Mario to Paper Mario moves, or in this case Ocarina Zelda to twillight Zelda moves).
That would really add a lot of depth to the gameplay and you'd always be in for a surprise when fighting a character, not knowing which moveset a player chose :)

[Cerrax]

From the looks of the sceens, she has all the same moves as she did in Melee.

Nice design. I personally hate Sheik so, yay to no Sheik. (Prob won't happen tho. He'll be another character for sure)

[eternal Zero]

Down+B for light arrows? Nono. Make it Din's Fire ala Link in OoT then make Side+B your light arrows. That ought to do it just fine. ^_^. Actually...looking at it that way, I would really like to see Sheik as a stand-alone...even though I doubt Zelda has much potential without her alternate ego.

[The Mutericator]

Down+B for light arrows? Nono. Make it Din's Fire ala Link in OoT then make Side+B your light arrows. That ought to do it just fine. ^_^. Actually...looking at it that way, I would really like to see Sheik as a stand-alone...even though I doubt Zelda has much potential without her alternate ego.

You know what I mean, though. Replace one of the special attacks with Light Arrows. And I wouldn't mind seeing Sheik as a separate character, either...

[Dhsu]

Zelda's head looks kinda big in comparison with her body...

And I keep thinking "Man, it must be really uncomfortable to fight in that."

[Airwalker]

Nice design. I personally hate Sheik so, yay to no Sheik. (Prob won't happen tho. He'll be another character for sure)

I agree. But isn't Sheik still a girl?

http://file.airwalking.com/shiekgender.png

[eternal Zero]

The disguise is male, but Zelda is still female. It's supposed to be done via magic...so she's really changing her form...so the form of Sheik is male, however, Sheik is still Zelda who is female.

So by that I would conclude that Sheik is a she.

[DeathBySpoon]

Anyone think of the possibility of Link being able to transform? Not sure what move he'd loose in the process, but it'd be pretty cool to have Midna jump out of his shadow and be able to play in wolf form as well. His grab could be Midna holding them with that hand thing, kind of like wrangling a goat. I'm not sure if I'd want them to do this, but it's an idea.