Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[Bigfoot]

I was a little disappointed that Little Mac wasn't a playable character, but I'm still really glad he's a trophy, and especially that they more or less used his design from the original NES game, because I think he looks pretty stupid in Super Punch Out for SNES.

Still, I mean, they have those stupid Ice Climbers as playable characters, and not Mac?

Isn't Killer Instinct technically Rare? And doesn't Rare work for some other company now? They probably won't be able to use any of them. Otherwise they would almost certainly add Fulgore, who I always sort of understood to be the most representative character of the series.

And yeah that DK and Diddy trailer is great. Hard to make someone look badass when they're weilding little wooden guns that spit circus peanuts, but they managed.

Yeah, I was just being sarcastic about the TJ Combo thing, sorry :P

Edit: Finally a pretty decent quality video of the screen up close.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26667.html

[Mastertoku]

I have an odd hunch that tonight's update will be a little more momentous than the rest of the week's... although, granted, that wouldn't exactly be hard.

[Hum4n After All]

LOL! I've heard that before! "I can WD, but I don't need to." or "Sure I can do it, it just doesn't help me."
Is WDing overrated? Way. But, if you can do it, yet don't do it in a match, you're a fool. There is nothing to lose from using WDing, it will only help you combo and mindgame better. It's that simple.

If you claim to be able to WD, but don't, you are an idiot, or you are Aniki.

I went to a tournament a few months back and people were WD all around me but that made no differnce. I still beat them and made it to the semi finals.
After that I got destroyed by 1 of the top 4. =/ Still quite an experience.
The top 4 players didn't WD either.

[Hum4n After All]

Peach and Kirby

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26661.html

Kid Icarus and Mario

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26651.html

It appears that Kirby's dash attack is different/better.

[Paratha]

Woo. I never found a use for the flame dash attack.

[TheCatPhysician]

hey chaos sorcerer, nice logic

so if you can beat someone who knows how to wavedash, then wavedashing isn't useful

with just a few minutes of practice anyone can master the timing. thousands of people can wavedash. only a handful of these people actually travel to tournaments and are good. what's more, the majority of people who know how to wavedash but aren't good are actually WORSE for wavedashing because they just think "oh, im using this advanced technique, it must be making me better" without knowing why and how it can be useful. wavedashing around a bunch isn't going to get you anywhere, it just makes you play retarded.

nobody said learning how to wavedash is supposed to instantly make you better, and not all people who use it are even good. you say you beat a bunch of wavedashers at this tournament (im guessing a local gamestore tournament); what were there names? are they known AT ALL in the competitive smash community? i wonder why not, maybe it's because they're just "random noob who happens to know how to wavedash #14,786." go to a real tournament and beat a competitive player who is actually good, then talk about how much you know about this game.

[HideousBeing]

I went to a tournament a few months back and people were WD all around me but that made no differnce. I still beat them and made it to the semi finals.
After that I got destroyed by 1 of the top 4. =/ Still quite an experience.
The top 4 players didn't WD either.
I apologize if that came off as a bit harsh, but I remain unconvinced. Look, is effectively WDing in a game, and using it to string together combos going to hurt you? I'll point out also, that to be able to pull a WD is one thing. To know when to use it in a match is another. I learned WDing through a painstaking process of repetition, until I could WD back and forth across FD. But it took much longer to incorporate the technique into my game. People tend to say that they don't need it, or fail to see how it helps, if they can't pull it off in a match. Eventually, it becomes an accessible move, no different than a button press, and you can pull it off instantly without thinking. Right after mastering the WD, you have to think about it before pulling it off in a match.

*Laughs* I thought of my brother who is learning now. He has the WD mastered, but can't effectively use it in matches yet. He'll wait until I'm a good distance away, and then do one, and then sort of stop like, "I did it!" rather lamely. Seriously, familiarize yourself with its uses, because saying that it won't help you is just wrong.

As for the tournament you spoke of, assuming the story is true, those who could WD were obviously not that good. WDing does NOT make you good. I played a guy at one tournament who was new to the game. He had spent hours learning moves like shffling and WDing, but he had a very poor understanding of the game's physics in general. At that time, I had been playing melee for a long time, but had limited skills in the advanced techs. Now, I don't know how well these guys you spoke of were WDing either. Like I mentioned earlier, they could have been guys that merely memorized the move combination, and popped a few random ones in matches to show, "Yeah, that's right, I can wavedash." I know that happens, because at my first tournament ever, that was me.

Sigh, I don't know why I can't be happy with how far I have come since then.

[Drack]

This is a thread about Brawl.

Wavedashing isn't in Brawl.

[Kiyosuki]

You guys who went to E for All.

Is Ike a monster or what? Fuck...I didn't expect him to be that good. He dominated so many matches.

[JoeFu]

This is a thread about Brawl.

Wavedashing isn't in Brawl.

QFT LOLOLO TEN CHARS

[Mastertoku]

You guys who went to E for All.

Is Ike a monster or what? Fuck...I didn't expect him to be that good. He dominated so many matches.
Ooh! Did you see what his Final Smash was?...

[Antipode]

Hey, did you notice at the end of that second page earlier, that accelerator thing that throws pit/mario is just like the ones from flying battery in Sonic and Knuckles. Wonder if that's supposed to be a reference.

[Mastertoku]

Hey, did you notice at the end of that second page earlier, that accelerator thing that throws pit/mario is just like the ones from flying battery in Sonic and Knuckles. Wonder if that's supposed to be a reference.
It's also a technique used in Kirby Superstar.

[Global-Trance]

hey chaos sorcerer, nice logic

so if you can beat someone who knows how to wavedash, then wavedashing isn't useful

with just a few minutes of practice anyone can master the timing. thousands of people can wavedash. only a handful of these people actually travel to tournaments and are good. what's more, the majority of people who know how to wavedash but aren't good are actually WORSE for wavedashing because they just think "oh, im using this advanced technique, it must be making me better" without knowing why and how it can be useful. wavedashing around a bunch isn't going to get you anywhere, it just makes you play retarded.

nobody said learning how to wavedash is supposed to instantly make you better, and not all people who use it are even good. you say you beat a bunch of wavedashers at this tournament (im guessing a local gamestore tournament); what were there names? are they known AT ALL in the competitive smash community? i wonder why not, maybe it's because they're just "random noob who happens to know how to wavedash #14,786." go to a real tournament and beat a competitive player who is actually good, then talk about how much you know about this game.

The whole "I'm too good for wavedashing" is incredibly LMAO. Obviously this wasn't a real tournament with any shred of real competition.

In any case, from everything I hear about Brawl from all my friends that went to E For All, it seems like a pretty sweet deal we're going to get. I hear quite a bit about the lack of wavedashing but wavelanding is still possible. Also I hear a bit about sweet spotting... seems like you can grab edge easily from what I hear... kinda like Mario's "magnet hands" in Melee. Anyone that was there able to add anything to that?

Also my friend says Zero Suit Samus's Final Smash is just her getting her suit back, but if you're close to her when she gets the suit back, you just get annihilated. Awesome, I guess, but it seems like Zero Suit Samus isn't selectable from the start. Many people were saying how they were holding buttons and what not before matches to find out if you could start off as her. I hope this won't be the case in the final game.

Edit: Kiyosuki, where in Cali are you from?

[Mastertoku]

Heh.

"Are you just going to eat peaches!?"

The extra punctuation makes this another solid Sakurai quote.

[nohero]

These updates and newly revealed concepts are quickly losing momentum.

[Paratha]

Yeah, this week wasn't that great at all. Oh well. Hopefully next week Captain Falcon, Geno, and Megaman will be announced as playable characters.

[Mastertoku]

Yeah, this week wasn't that great at all. Oh well. Hopefully next week Captain Falcon, Geno, and Megaman will be announced as playable characters.
I'm a little surprised. I expected at least one stellar update this week, especially following the announcement of the delay.

Yes, I know they had Sonic. But that was before. Now they need another good announcement to distract us. Great news, then terrible news, then great news. It's like a disappointment sandwich.

[TheCatPhysician]

so there's this new thing in brawl:

you know how in melee if you're in the middle of running and you mash the control stick the opposite way, you're character will do this big fat laggy turn around animation (there are ways to get around this)? well in brawl apparantly instead, your character will actually FALL DOWN. but this is a good thing, because you can instantly cancel your fall down animation with anything like a grab or attack. what does this mean? you can be running and then essentially pivot with an attack or grab or whatever instantly. this has already been possible with dashdancing, but not with actually running.

dashdancing is cancelling your original dash animation with a dash the other way. there are two parts to running: the original lunge forward (the normally cancellable animation) and the part after, where the character is actually running. in melee pivoting out of your initial dash animation with an attack is possible but way more difficult because you literally have a one-frame window. in brawl you can still dash-dance (and it's yet to see if you can pivot out of initial dash like in melee) but now you can pivot out of actually running, so that's a pretty big thing, and it seems like it's really intuitive and easy.

[Global-Trance]

so there's this new thing in brawl:

you know how in melee if you're in the middle of running and you mash the control stick the opposite way, you're character will do this big fat laggy turn around animation (there are ways to get around this)? well in brawl apparantly instead, your character will actually FALL DOWN. but this is a good thing, because you can instantly cancel your fall down animation with anything like a grab or attack. what does this mean? you can be running and then essentially pivot with an attack or grab or whatever instantly. this has already been possible with dashdancing, but not with actually running.

dashdancing is cancelling your original dash animation with a dash the other way. there are two parts to running: the original lunge forward (the normally cancellable animation) and the part after, where the character is actually running. in melee pivoting out of your initial dash animation with an attack is possible but way more difficult because you literally have a one-frame window. in brawl you can still dash-dance (and it's yet to see if you can pivot out of initial dash like in melee) but now you can pivot out of actually running, so that's a pretty big thing, and it seems like it's really intuitive and easy.

Awesome! Thanks for that bit of info.

[Hum4n After All]

Eh, this whole WD talk is retarded now.
I'm going to jump on the short bust out of this conversation.
No point on going any further. I'm over it.

[Wipomatic]

Peach and Kirby

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26661.html

Kid Icarus and Mario

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26651.html


Wow, there are more levels in those videos than there were in the whole of Melee. I've got high hopes for adventure mode this time

[The Author]

The game isn't out and we already have people giving stupid name to random things?


Yay...

[nohero]

Yeah, this week wasn't that great at all. Oh well. Hopefully next week Captain Falcon, Geno, and Megaman will be announced as playable characters.

If that happened, I would cease all bitching about this game, even about it's delay.

[Jam Stunna]

Eh, this whole WD talk is retarded now.
I'm going to jump on the short bust out of this conversation.
No point on going any further. I'm over it.

But it's so funny!

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=121371

Of all people, no less.

[Arek the Absolute]

Fuck everyone who whines about Wavedashing not being in the game. Who the fuck cares about it not being in there. It was a glitch to begin with.

OHGNOES I CANT BE TOP PLAYER BECUZ ID ONT HAVE MY EXPLOITS! EXPLOITZ!!!!

If finding exploits makes you top tier, then you are fucking sad. Sure, Wavedashing in MELEE helped, but this is BRAWL. Learn how to play BRAWL and you shall be fine.

Fucking SSB64 didn't have WD and people still play THAT competitively, so why can't people play Brawl in the same fashion.

God damn.

ps- smash boards a load of omg shut the fuck up right now cause holy shiiiit are the whiners so fucking stupid
ADAPT DAMN IT ADAPT

[Kureejii Lea]

So, uh, anyone actually been paying attention to feedback from the events, or do we only care about wavedashing?

'Cause the Norfair stage looks like it'll have some neat hazards and Tails is an assist trophy. Fox is reportedly slower.

[Dunther]

So, uh, anyone actually been paying attention to feedback from the events, or do we only care about wavedashing?

'Cause the Norfair stage looks like it'll have some neat hazards and Tails is an assist trophy. Fox is reportedly slower.

I think that with Sonic around, any character would be slower, even C.Falcon...

[Bigfoot]

Brawl delayed until May 2008 to add wavedashing.

C'mon people, this is like if Nintendo made MKDS 2 and snaking was removed. Sure, it sucks that things change, but I'm going to get used to it.

This wouldn't be the first game that has had a change to the mechanics, yet people still play the shit out of it.

[Alpine Flame]

Yay! Tails assist trophy. Lotsa levels, much variety, more players,

BALANCED PLAYERS. And such. Fox = slower. Yay. No wavedashing = yay!

Smash wavedashers whining = Wow, get a life. More things to worry about.

[Global-Trance]

But it's so funny!

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=121371

Of all people, no less.

Wow M2K of all people. What a riot.

[TheCatPhysician]

Eh, this whole WD talk is retarded now.
I'm going to jump on the short bust out of this conversation.
No point on going any further. I'm over it.

haha, oh wow

nice sneaking your way out of it when you were completely refuted.

can't man up when you're wrong eh?

man that conversation was hilarious

CS: talks about wavedashing

us: gives a bunch of valid points showing how he's completely wrong

CS: im done here! o=<

it just makes you look like an idiot when you can't admit when you're wrong, and everyone is wrong from time to time.

[SwordBreaker]

Anybody who's been whining about wavedashing is actually saying that they're totally dependent on that move to be a skilled player. Hell, I actually didn't know of the move's existence until recently via YouTube.

Anyway...yeah...deal with the change. I think that the team is trying to achieve a new pace with Brawl. Everyone has been saying that Brawl moves a bit choppy...when in actuality Nintendo seems to be slowing down the speed of gameplay to something in between the original Smash Bros. and Melee.

[TheCatPhysician]

Anybody who's been whining about wavedashing is actually saying that they're totally dependent on that move to be a skilled player.

yeah. mew2king sucks at this game.

[Arek the Absolute]

haha, oh wow

nice sneaking your way out of it when you were completely refuted.

can't man up when you're wrong eh?

man that conversation was hilarious

CS: talks about wavedashing

us: gives a bunch of valid points showing how he's completely wrong

CS: im done here! o=<

it just makes you look like an idiot when you can't admit when you're wrong, and everyone is wrong from time to time.

was he for or against the removal

[TheCatPhysician]

idk but the roy's fire is confuses people so w/e afk

ttp://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4004&page=801

[Airwalker]

I'm sure some people will find a new exploit in Brawl and give it a stupid name that catches on in the noun-verbing form. My money's on monkey-fizzling.

[shikigami]

wavedashing is simply taking advantage of a bug in the game. should it be illegal? no. should it be a feature in the next iteration? absolutely not. its a bug and was never intended to be there. it should be fixed. however im not going to complain if someone uses it in melee.

its just like exploits in sequence breaking/speed runs. take advantage now while you can, but theyll be fixed in the next iteration, in which new bugs will be found and exploited.

[Global-Trance]

Wavedashing would still be possible in Brawl if air dodging was still directional like it is in Melee. That's why wavelanding is still possible in Brawl for the most part.

[TheCatPhysician]

it wasn't even a bug. it's just airdodging. airdodges give you momentum, and when you land your momentum and traction determine how far you slide. as you get better, you eventually realize this kind of stuff.

and they didn't just blatantly remove the wavedash technique from brawl, they completely redid the airdodge system. in one video where a guy is fighting a computer mario, you can even see that they have their AI system set up so that the computers know how to jump in the direction they want to airdodge to recover.

[Dunther]

wavedashing is simply taking advantage of a bug in the game. should it be illegal? no. should it be a feature in the next iteration? absolutely not. its a bug and was never intended to be there. it should be fixed. however im not going to complain if someone uses it in melee.

its just like exploits in sequence breaking/speed runs. take advantage now while you can, but theyll be fixed in the next iteration, in which new bugs will be found and exploited.

I totally agree with you.

[TheCatPhysician]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=98650

this is my favoritest thread on smashboards

[JoeFu]

Was reading some stuff on smashbros and people are calling sakurai retarded, wish he was dead, and a bunch of other crap.

gosh people are retarded.

[TheCatPhysician]

i just hate that there are thousands and thousands of people who post on the site but otherwise aren't actually a part of the competitive smash community, which is just a handful of several hundred people. and everyone sees what these people say and think it reflects the hardcore smashers' opinions. this is what brings up shit like the ED article "tourneyfag", although the final destination meme is hilarious even though most pros dont even like final destination lolz

[The Pezman]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20071019.jpg

[The Author]

So, uh, anyone actually been paying attention to feedback from the events, or do we only care about wavedashing?

'Cause the Norfair stage looks like it'll have some neat hazards and Tails is an assist trophy. Fox is reportedly slower. No no no no no...

It's more important to talk about what SSBB isn't.

I am pissed because there is no experience point, and the troop management sucks, and you can't drive around in a stolen car.

[Hum4n After All]

haha, oh wow

nice sneaking your way out of it when you were completely refuted.

can't man up when you're wrong eh?

man that conversation was hilarious

CS: talks about wavedashing

us: gives a bunch of valid points showing how he's completely wrong

CS: im done here! o=<

it just makes you look like an idiot when you can't admit when you're wrong, and everyone is wrong from time to time.

Nah, this just makes you look like an idiot.
This is what I was avoiding.

was he for or against the removal

I don't care. I'm for getting the damn game. Thats all I care about.
And those sons of bitches didn't honor my fucking receipt!
$40 dollars gone.

[Gerbah]

It'll be neat to see the game without wavedashing! Just think, people who are THAT good at melee, but DON'T wavedash? It'll look a lot cooler!

As for this weeks updates: C'mon, New Pork City is like the best stage so far (okay, well, that is a matter of opinion). I was expecting something a bit better this week, at least something like a moveset for Lucas or Captain Falcon/Ness, but I guess we'll have to wait until next week? I'm sure they'll do SOMETHING neat next week...

[Brushfire]

I havent been looking at the updates in awhile. But they have got Little Mac now!! I just can't but think of that song by Game Over: Little Mac's Confession.

This game is gonna be the mad notes.

[Wipomatic]

Tails is an assist trophy.

Anyone got a picture or a video or some explanation on what he does?

[eternal Zero]

wavedashing is simply taking advantage of a bug in the game. should it be illegal? no. should it be a feature in the next iteration? absolutely not. its a bug and was never intended to be there. it should be fixed. however im not going to complain if someone uses it in melee.

its just like exploits in sequence breaking/speed runs. take advantage now while you can, but theyll be fixed in the next iteration, in which new bugs will be found and exploited.

The best example of this in a recent game is a BR doubleshot or the double-beat in Halo 2/3. In my opinion, it's an exploit of a bug and really shouldn't exist anymore. Wavelanding does make sense now with gliding as it's continuation of momentum, but before it definitely shouldn't have existed.

[Antipode]

But it's so funny!

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=121371

Of all people, no less.

Wow, this is the first thread I've ever visited on this forum. The guy complaining is ridiculous enough as it is, but in the first page people said "get over it", "deal with it", "too late", "live with it", and "quit being whiny brats". So yeah, I pretty much hate that whole community now. My god.

That said, the whole "fall over with direction change" deal ought to be interesting. I don't think it's a bad thing, but I think it'll definitely make people think a little more carefully instead of just button mashing as fast as possible.

[Red Shadow]

i must be one of the only people that is pleased with kinetic dodging, eh?

it's what i always wished was in melee anyway, so i think i'll be rather good at it

[DuskyFerret]

Hey fellas, don't you reckon it's time we let up on this wavedashing crap?

The way I see it, I love Super Smash as much as the next guy, but truth is I never even knew what wavedashing was until I started posting in this thread. Sure I didn't play it "competitively" as some of you guys do, so I'm probably not up to your so-called "league" or "standards", but all I do know is that if my friends would come round, we would bring out the Smash and it would be a riot!

We never knew about wavedashing or any other of those technical names bestowed upon *bugs* in the game, and we were better for it. Super Smash is about enjoying the game for what it is, not trying to find exploits in the system to become better or gain some false-satisfaction in the standards of your own skill. Wavedashing is called a *bug* for a reason.

So I reckon we should just let up on all this WD crap and focus on what is actually going to be in the game. I dunno, maybe it's just because updates were kinda slow this week or something.

Yeah you can say I just continued the WD topic by posting this, but if you posted to say that you'd just be continuing the useless topic anyway...so let's end it there.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

As has been said before. Wavedashing is very much a part of high-level play in melee. It, along with other advanced techniques, changes the game completely. Anybody claiming Wavedashing isn't -- or shouldn't be -- an integral part of a good game of high level Melee is deluding themselves.

However, this new game isn't Melee 2.0. It's Brawl. Some of the old exploits are taken out, some new ones will no doubt be discovered.

[Global-Trance]

As has been said before. Wavedashing is very much a part of high-level play in melee. It, along with other advanced techniques, changes the game completely. Anybody claiming Wavedashing isn't -- or shouldn't be -- an integral part of a good game of high level Melee is deluding themselves.

However, this new game isn't Melee 2.0. It's Brawl. Some of the old exploits are taken out, some new ones will no doubt be discovered.

I guess this sums it all up really.

There wasn't really too much of a ruckus here about wavedashing here. Mostly on Smashboards... I wonder though what little technical tricks will be found in Brawl. Guess we'll all find out.

As for direction air dodging vs. kinetic air dodging, I like the idea of both. I don't know which I like better. Directional air dodging allows for more mind game possibilities while kinetic air dodging makes us have to take a step back to consider if the air dodging we're about to do is a wise decision or not for it may lead to dire circumstances.

[Jam Stunna]

Directional air dodging allows for more mind game possibilities while kinetic air dodging makes us have to take a step back to consider if the air dodging we're about to do is a wise decision or not for it may lead to dire circumstances.

You think too much. Just spam lasers.

[Global-Trance]

You think too much. Just spam lasers.

...

You got me, you wobbling fgt.

[Effector]

Wow. Some of you guys need to let up on this. I really wanted to say what DuskyFerret already has, but he did it well, so you can just read that again if you want to know what I think. WD (and plenty of other glitches/bugs/exploits from Melee) will be cut when we get Brawl. But none of those things make a fun game; I played Melee for a good five years off and on with no knowledge of these "tourney-level skills", and enjoyed it immensely. Still do, in fact. The fact we can enjoy a six year old game (and I play it more than games that came out yesterday) says something about it.

Besides, whatever they take out, you guys will find another weird thing in the physics engine to screw with.

EDIT:
You think too much. Just spam lasers.
QFT.

[Global-Trance]

It's just funny, because my main is Falco and I have mastered all four types of laser hops.

[Global-Trance]

This better be Captain Falcon's final smash. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw)

[Adun The Untouchable]

Well since characters have a double jump, I never thought anyone would be bothered that much by another velocity change for a airdodge. Wavedashing has opened up an entirely new defense for me, which I have been victim too as well. This leads to having multiple approaches and allows mindgames to come into play more. Offensively, wavedashing has changed eveything for me too. Waveshining, wavelanding, and grabbing the ledge off of a waveland are all amazing techniques I have only began to use recently.

I would like to point out this article (I haven't sifted through the 500 pages of this thread, sorry if it's a repost) playing to win (http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/).

Considering all of the characters (although it is more useful for some) can wavedash and any player can do it, I see no problem with it.


edit: did i say 500? i meant 807 pages.

[Hum4n After All]

This better be Captain Falcon's final smash. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw)

LMAO!
That would be an epic Final Smash.

[JackKieser]

Good jesus, this is fucking stupid.

Ok, they had the demo for play at NOA (some of the DigiPen students got to go over today and play it before they took it away), and SO MANY people at the school, especially people from our Smash Club, bitched that WD'ing wasn't in.

You know what? The bottom line is that if you HAVE to WD to win, you don't deserve to win. Most people I fight who use WD'ing use it so that they can move and charge/use a Smash attack at the same time, for instance. Think about this. To Smash attack on the ground, you must be stationary. This is according to the basic rules of the game. It's why Crouch Canceling to a Smash attack is so effective and necessary if you have to run at an opponent.

WD'ing allows you to move AND Smash attack at the same time. Thus, this breaks the basic rules of the game. Cheating is defined as breaking the basic rules of the game. So, by correlation, if you WD, you are cheating. This is regardless of whether WD'ing is a trick, an exploit, an 'advanced movement technique', a glitch, or whatever. Who cares why or how it's there; it's cheating.

Deal with it.

If you can't win without WD'ing, or if you use WD'ing instinctively, or if you say it 'deepens' the game, you are wrong. You only want WD'ing in so that you can win more; admit it, because the more you whine about how it's 'really better for everyone', the less respect we have for you because you're a whiny bitch hiding behind some false presence. You want to win, and that's ok, but only if you are legit.

Jesus Christ.

--Jack Kieser

[cobaltstarfire]

This better be Captain Falcon's final smash. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw)

Deja vu!

That clip has to come up every 10 pages or so doesn't it. :P

[Strike911]

New SmashBros, new rules.

I loved WD-ing... but... seriously, for all the new stuff they're adding in I'm okay with it. I just have to come to terms with the fact that Wavedashing was actually an exploit and was just an overlooked move from Melee. That's the toughest part.

I would imagine all of the "advanced techniques" we're used to will be gone. I mean, all Nintendo has to do is look at the move repositories all over the internet and make fixes for the movements. Nintendo wants the game by their rules: they don't want the player's figuring out ways to exploit their controls... which, has its pros and cons.

It will certainly level the playing field between the newbies and seasoned players, but not enough that a new player will just own a good player. Like it's been said above, if you can't play without Wavedashing then you better re-learn by February... and if it is the case that you'll lose to mediocre player with out WD-ing, then lets face it, you're just bad at Smash Bros.

On one hand, since I like to WD, I'm a little sad to see it go, but since Nitnendo is refining the game to how they want it, it makes me a little more comfortable in the overall balance of the game. I think this game will be well-balanced, especially with the cleanup surrounding "advanced techniques."

I seriously doubt there will be many moves in Brawl like WaveDashing. Nintendo wants it by the book so a new player will see what a seasoned player does, and will know how to do it. Nintendo as a company doesn't tend to like really secret moves... they just don't do it, so I'm willing to bet if there even are "advanced techniques" that people somehow learn, that there will only be like one or two. My money is on Nintendo cleaning up the control functions so much that the game will almost exactly how Nintendo wants people to play it.

I'm cool with it. Again, it was said earlier by someone else, but New Brawl, New style of play. I doubt anyone would say "SCREW THIS GAME, I REFUSE TO PLAY IT BECAUSE OF NO WAVEDASHING!" All these people just need to stop complaining. Bitching and moaning will not get the functionality back into the game. Nintendo doesn't want it there since it's been removed. Nothnig we can do about it. Nothing. At. All. So deal and move on. The game looks fantastic, and still will require skill to play. Different from Melee.

So you've got 4 months to get used to it. . .

[friendlyHunter]

Good jesus, this is fucking stupid.

Ok, they had the demo for play at NOA (some of the DigiPen students got to go over today and play it before they took it away),
At first I thought you you posting to complain that you didn't get to play it ^^

Cheating is defined as breaking the basic rules of the game. So, by correlation, if you WD, you are cheating.
You mean "by definition"?
[/lame math joke]

There is no rule that says "Thou shalt smash only while standing", so it's not breaking any "basic rules of the game", and by constipation, it's not cheating.


Ha ha! I didn't think I'd be joining the WD discussion, but here I am. Why are so many so passionate about this issue anyway? It's about the biggest ridiculous nerd-war I've ever seen =p

You want to win, and that's ok, but only if you are legit.

Jack Kieser.

--Jesus Christ

I am by no means a fan of wavedashing... I think that it's generally bad design to include moves that are physically difficult to do (for MOST OF US!!!). Who said anything about "design" though - wave dashing is a bug, and bugs are not normally "designed". WD might be an exception though, all that "the developers knew it was there" jazz. However, wave dashing is NOT cheating.

Consider the high-jump at the Olympic games. Back in the day, athletes would try to get over the bar however they felt like, usually head-first. Then some guy named Fosbury found out that you could go over backwards, arching your back so that you could get over a much higher bar with a lower/same centre of mass. Now EVERYBODY does it this new way. Was it intended when the sport was invented? Of course not! Is it cheating? Hell no! Cheating means it's not allowed - and if wavedashing is allowed in tournaments, then it's by no means cheating.

Who cares why or how it's there; it's cheating.

When you say "cheating", perhaps you actually mean to use a different word? Unless you're talking single player Melee, in which case nobody cares if you cheat =p And blah blah blah speed runs, blah blah exploits etc.


Anyway, here's my theory to WHY wavedashing might be such a "hot-button" topic: the people who don't want to do it don't like to play against people who do (and either don't want to learn it, or don't enjoy the style of play it creates), and the people who like it LOVE it - they like the new style of play, and they like any advantage it gives. GENERALLY, I mean; I'm not attempting to label everyone.

Also generally: if you're playing against your friend, and he wants to you stop wavedashing, for the love of Fox do what he says, you're taking the fun out of the game! If you set informal "rules" between each other, and you be an ass and break those rules, then yes, maybe that could be considered "cheating".

To those who use wavedashing in tournaments: if there aren't any rules against it, go nuts! If anyone complains about other combatants using WD-ing in a tournament, they're in the wrong place. What I mean is: the main goal of the tournament is trying to win by any means nessesary (which many find fun for obvious reasons), as opposed to simply having fun playing a game. I think some confusion there is what started and continued to kindle that lame debate way back in the Great Brawl Information Drought of '07.


I'm sorry, my post had practically nothing to do with Brawl. I'm glad WDing is gone... Nintendo's trying to design a new style of play and make it as good as possible, rather than having the community invent their own completely different style based on bugs/exploits. I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks Nintendo wants to base their biggest upcoming title's gameplay on exploits is nuts. Now I'm just waiting for the Olympic "High Jump 2" event where the "Fosbury Flop" is not allowed, and the poll is on fire and continually spinning.

[Global-Trance]

Deja vu!

That clip has to come up every 10 pages or so doesn't it. :P

A reminder every so often is good. :) I know we've all seen it, but it's just too awesome.

[JackKieser]

FriendlyHunter, I don't think you understood what I meant when I said 'rules of the game' and what is considered 'cheating'.

When I said that the rules of the game say you can't move and perform a Smash attack at the same time, I mean the game's coding. The 'rules' of the game itself. In order for your button inputs to be interpreted as 'Smash attack', you have to be standing still, or else you do your dashing attack. That's how the game is coded.

Now, consider Wavesmashing. It allows you to circumvent this mechanic. 'Cheating' is generally considered to be 'breaking the rules'. Well, if 'You have to be standing still to Smash attack' is a rule, and Wavedashing allows you to break that rule, then you are cheating when you Wavedash. Simple as that.

And as for the high-jump metaphor... not applicable. See, the position your body was in as it sailed over the bar was not ever written in the rules of high-jumping, so the first dude to arch his back (et cetera) wasn't breaking any rules when he did so. Thus, a new technique was discovered. As we have established, WD'ing DOES break the rules of the game, and so it should not be allowed.

Oh, and it's allowed in tournaments because people don't think it's cheating. Just cause it's allowed there, though, doesn't change the fact that it is, in fact, cheating the system of the game.

And, yeah, that pretty much why it is such a big deal. Basically, us who don't/can't/won't use WD'ing think it's a bug/glitch/expolit that wasn't intended for play, thus shouldn't be used, while people who DO use it don't want to give up any advantage at all so that they never risk losing ever ever. Generally. After all, don't want to speak in absolutes.

--Jack Kieser

[Cortani]

If the definition of what cheating is goes "what is not allowed", then WD is obviously cheating. Nintendo just can't update the rulebook too often, if you get my analogy.

I wonder how crucial the "match-the-stage-music-rythm" component is in Donkey Kong's final smash. If it's a big deal then I won't be able to use other music ever, as my friend is a DK main.

*still waiting for young link*

[Citris]

I mean the game's coding.

So SSB is really an advanced AI that can evolve beyond its original code?

If you can do it in the game, then it's in the coding. Period. Whether this was an unintended loophole the designers overlooked is irrelevant. It's still allowed by the game, or it would not be possible to do.

Also, tournament play is the highest level of play, thus those rules are the law of the game.

So, if it's possible to do in the game, and is allowable in tournament play, then it is in no way shape or form cheating!

This is of course excluding the previously mentioned casual play rules you and your friends set up.

[JackKieser]

I'm sorry, but as I said, tournament play is irrelevant. Accepted tourney rules were not made and/or sanctioned by Nintendo or HAL Labs, so who cares what they decide?

And, the 'If you can do it in the game, then it's in the coding' argument, as someone who studies game coding, is outright untrue. There will ALWAYS be circumstances that a coder does not foresee. Any playtester will tell you that people break games in ways that no coder or designer would think of in their wildest dreams. People broke Melee with Wavedashing. Simple as that. Wavedashing breaks a fundamental hard-coded gameplay mechanic. The only reason people don't see it like that is because it helps them win, and people don't like to lose.

Original design always trumps because we will always find ways to try to fuck with that design. That just how gamers work.

--Jack Kieser

[I-n-j-i-n]

Wavedashing definitely is an exploit. The word 'exploit' describes it technically as well as figuratively.

Also, a lot of serious tournaments do ban a few moves or set stipulations too. Gamers using all at their disposal to win is not very professional at all. I don't know where all these crazy tourney myths came from. Just about every tournaments sets up strict stipulations as far as exploits go. This is a foregone conclusion.

[Kiyosuki]

Ok get ready for lots of impressions. I'll try not to get too explanation trigger happy.

Overall - Its an upgrade of Melee, which is pretty much what we want so in other words its coming together very well. It sounds like its going to have some great music.

Characters.

Mario - He's Mario, not much to say. His FS is basic but really powerful. If you're caught in the fire blast you're basically dead.

Pikachu - Pikachu seems similar too. Really not much to say. His FS is powerful but its kind of easy to avoid and block. Very few Pikachu's ever did well.

Donkey Kong - I never saw a single person use him, ever.

Peach - She's as annoying as ever and I feel like the umbrella makes you float even more. Her FS I know is controvertial but if it really does change with moods I think it goes with her intentionally irritating style pretty well.

Fox - God people are such whiners. He was not nerfed -that- much. In fact he's still very good. He feels balanced. Landmaster Tank is a fun as well FS.

Samus - The Missile got boosted a bit, it goes much faster now though it starts slow. Okay her FS is pretty awesome, it does much more damage in game than videos make it look and its very impressive looking. When she turns into...

Zero Suit Samus - She becomes a total stun/bitch hit tactic keep away character. She's pretty much as she should be I think, a survivor. She's swift but she feels nothing like Sheik so she's definitely not the "new Sheik". Her style is quite different. When she gets a smash ball her armor comes back and when it does a shockwave comes out and damages everyone around her. Its pretty decent itself.

The system may turn out to be kind of a novelty I think but its really fun.

Yoshi - Bread and Butter Yoshi. Even his FS where he grows Angel wings and shoots fire is kind of plain, but its effective.

Metaknight - Cheapness in a bottle. He is soooooooo cheap. He can do the thing Kirby used to do in SSB where Final Cutter can act as a Meteor Smash. He swipes so fast too that its hard to do anything. I saw a lot of cheap deaths thanks to him. He floats pretty well too. However to make up for it I think he has the most underwhelming FS of them all so far. It looks epic at first but it ends up being just one big giant slash. Is ok...but its not very impressive.

Ike - As I said Ike is a monster. He is really good. He has noticable startup time for his smashes, which is good because if he had Marth like strike speed he'd easilly be broken. Everything else Ike does is extremely damaging, and he has insane priority and reach. A lot of his moves swipe in huge arcs. His speed is also decent and his Final Smash is awesome. Swipes, and if the swipe connects to an opponent he knocks them in the air and does a pretty epic looking auto combo. Camera even pans out to show it. Big screen sized slashes. Afterwards he does one final strike right down to the ground again with the opponent, anyone who's in the way of it gets sent flying too.

Think of Omnislash but with lots of fire. Its a really good FS. Oh and he does have counter too. His Up B is a combination of Dolphin Slash and Final Cutter...he throws the sword up then jumps up to catch it then comes down again. As a recovery it takes some getting used to.

Pit - Pit is excellent. He is such a parasite to get rid of because his floating ability is superb. Those arrows are annoying as fuck, and when someone knew how to use him his attacks were very swift and flowy. His FS is as epic in the game as it looks in the shots, and its very very powerful and effective. Its my favorite so far.

Sonic - Oh man...Sonic is deceptively fast. He starts out decently speedy and swift, but if you run or do a spinattack that changes in an instant and suddenly you're going almost too fast. He can run across Eldin Bridge in literally 4 seconds, his running is that fast. I killed myself a lot with him because it takes some getting used to but I think he has a lot of potential. People already started getting good with him.

He can predictably chase down smash balls with ease so expect to see Super Sonic a lot. Super Sonic is pretty good too. Not an apocalyptic move but it'll shake things up.

Link - Shadow Link color is awesome. Black clothes and they even got the red glowing eyes. Anyways he's same old Link but he feels a little less clunky and a bit speedier. Still a lockjaw as far as thats concerned but its noticable. Can't say I know much else about him but his Final Smash is pretty cool. You've all seen it by now. How it ends after the combo is he slashes across a good deal of the screen. Anything in the way takes damage.

The new Boomerang is really fun too, I bet people are going to get really creative with it.

Diddy - He's quite fun to use. Not too much experience from me personally but many others used him. He seems like a good beginner character because he's speedy but solid. His FS is like Sonic's, not apocalyptic but its solid.

Bowser - He'll still need practice but I feel like his mechanics were retweaked a bit. He seems the same but he landed hits a bit easier so I think his special move startup speed got a bit of a boost. Doing Koopa Twirl near an enemy does a lot more damage and knock-off than before. Koopa Klaw is his coolest new feature. It catches a bit easier, and instead of that wussy bite/shoulder he does a full blown spinning piledriver. Its very impressive looking and it can be followed up with another move it looks like. I need to play him more to see how he turns out.

Giga Bowser is really really impressive when playing with a crowd. If he flicks you it sends you flying, he's that powerful. But the problem is even catching the opponents, I think it'll take practice too but its very fun.

Stages

Norfair - Think Brinstar but the "lava" comes from the sides as well, and one big wave comes and a small little safety section appears you can go into (complete with Metroid doors.)

Bridge of Eldin - Long. Middle breaks and rebuilds at random. Thats pretty much it. Pretty

Del Fino - Its like a less chaotic Rainbow Cruise. Its decent.

Animal Crossing - Kind of a plain stage gameplay wise, it'll probably be more of a novelty stage thanks to the day/night thing.

Castle Siege - Its three stages that switch back and fourth. Its decent but the music sounds -godly-. Its Fire Emblem after all.

The Halberd - Very exciting stage. It amy seem like one platform but it changes as the ship comes around and you board it. The music sounds pretty nice.

Big Laser comes out and shoots a targetted opponent. I bet this would be a fun stage to fire Samus' FS.

Lylat Cruise - Its pretty plain. The background looks cool, thats kind of it.


Pokemon Stadium - Looks almost exactly as it did in Melee, the stuff on the arena just changes to new environments.


All the characters have intro animations again!

[Broken]

^
Great info Kyosuki. I've been wondering how good certain characters were going to be, namely Ike and Fox. I'm sure when the game comes out though, clever people will think of new ways to make different characters competitive. (Bowser is going to be top tier, lol.)

[Linkjing Donuts]

awesome impressions. thats worth like, a whole month of updates

also, what was the fourth pokemon stage transformation?

[Sir_NutS]

I'm very glad to hear that Pit is a good character, as I want to play him so bad :D.

[Airwalker]

Some characters...

What? No pokemon trainer?

Edit: Nevermind--just watched a gameplay video and noticed he wasn't listed in the selectable players. Nor is Wario, Snake, Lucas, Ice Climbers, Zelda, or Kirby.

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

This is hilarious. Let the Internet nerd army howl in despair as their precious video game exploits vanish. Those losers can whine all the want and continue to play Melee, classifying themselves as true gamers or whatever, but I'm gonna enjoy having a life, not being an overly competitive douche about a video game (maybe those two are the same point), and playing Smash the way it was intended.

[Global-Trance]

As fun as it was to dwell on wavedashing for that bit, I think we should really drop it as it's gone a lot longer than most of us thought it would. We all have different views on it but one thing for certain is that we shouldn't complain it's gone. Done deal.

Anyways. Thanks for the report on everything Kiyosuki. I was meaning to ask though... if Mario was now more like Dr. Mario? Mario's forward air (THE FIST) spiked people while Dr. Mario's forward air knocked people back. I might have seen Mario use the fist in Brawn but not sure. I could have sworn it had knockback instead of spike ability. Maybe you got to try that out?

[Kiyosuki]

Because the crowd was rather large and things went really fast I couldn't get really that much into details. He just felt like regular Mario to me.

His reflect cape move thingie looks a bit faster though.

I wouldn't worry about the people putting up a shitfest over the wavedashing ordeal. I'm sure there's other new complexities people will find out, its a new experience. Some gamers just don't handle change very well, it goes without saying. I bet they'll probably go to Brawl eventually anyways its all bravado.

Whats funny is Wavedashing is not that big a deal. Its useful and its nifty a trick to master I guess but its not like this groundbreaking and game balance destroying monster exploit. Hell the really good players don't even use it that much from what I've seen, its a selective move. I think some people just treat the Wavedash like some easy way to make themselves look good in a crowd so thats why they talk about it so damn much.

Well in the end they're complaining and making a huge claim they won't play the new game off of first hand impressions of a game thats not even officially out yet so that says everything. I wouldn't worry about it.

[Antipode]

Too bad people couldn't do so well with Pikachu - he was always one of my best, along with the nonexistent Captain Falcon. Thanks for the updates!

I hope this means we won't see a billion meta-knights every time we play online...

[Linkjing Donuts]

I hope this means we won't see a billion meta-knights every time we play online...
that's what it's looking like so far

[Kiyosuki]

Too bad people couldn't do so well with Pikachu - he was always one of my best, along with the nonexistent Captain Falcon. Thanks for the updates!

I hope this means we won't see a billion meta-knights every time we play online...

Well remember this is a demo, this doesn't mean that this is final and that Pikachu sucks while Metaknight is destined to dominate. These are just impressions.

Metaknight is cheap but he's far from unkillable, I downed quite a few. He's light. And I have to repeat again that FS of his really does kinda suck in comparison to the others.

I bet you all anything they're saving Captain Falcon for last. He's kind of a fan favorite in a funny but lovable way.

[Drack]

I was meaning to ask though... if Mario was now more like Dr. Mario? Mario's forward air (THE FIST) spiked people while Dr. Mario's forward air knocked people back. I might have seen Mario use the fist in Brawn but not sure. I could have sworn it had knockback instead of spike ability. Maybe you got to try that out?

From what I've read on Smashboards, it has Doc-style knock if Mario's fist is above his head, and spike-style knock if you hit when Mario's fist is in front of him

[Global-Trance]

From what I've read on Smashboards, it has Doc-style knock if Mario's fist is above his head, and spike-style knock if you hit when Mario's fist is in front of him

Uh... shouldn't that be the other way around. That currently doesn't make sense... but nice to see they have some awesome dynamics to the fist.

[Scufo]

Uh... shouldn't that be the other way around. That currently doesn't make sense... but nice to see they have some awesome dynamics to the fist.
I don't think so. If he hits while his fist is above his head, it will be moving mostly horizontally, causing the opponent to go in the same direction. His fist will be moving vertically downward when it's in front of him.

[Bigfoot]

I wonder when Brawl has been out for a while and people start working with tourney-style rules if they'll disable all items except Smash Balls, but keep it on the lowest spawn rate. It'd kind of suck to see ZSS never played because of that. It'd be nice if they give Samus the option to start out as ZSS like Zelda/Sheik.

[Hum4n After All]

Because the crowd was rather large and things went really fast I couldn't get really that much into details. He just felt like regular Mario to me.
His reflect cape move thingie looks a bit faster though.


If you're knocked off the battlefield can you still use the cape to help you get back?

[Kiyosuki]

I have no idea. Sorry.

[The Pezman]

Wait, are there new characters besides the six who were given trailer attention:

Sonic
Meta Knight
Pit
Zero Suit
Wario
Snake

There are others?

[E sharp]

I highly doubt they'd make this without putting captain falcon in it.

But I still wanna see the cane of pacci from zmc

edit---
I wouldn't be saprized if there were more new characters than the six they've mentioned. Look at melee. It had a shitload of new guys that weren't mentioned. well I never heard of them till the game came out. I think the New characters are jus the ones you don't have to unlock. that's my guess.

[DuskyFerret]

I wonder when Brawl has been out for a while and people start working with tourney-style rules if they'll disable all items except Smash Balls, but keep it on the lowest spawn rate.

That's if the Smash Ball will even be on the item switch list.

I just thinking, because of the pure power of the smash ball they might exclude it from the item switch so that you don't end up having a game where they are the only item enabled on maximum spawn.

They might decide to preserve the awesomeness of the Final Smash by making us have no control over if and how often the SB's appear. Cos really, do you expect to see a SB every match you play? FS's will really become trivial if we can suddenly summon a smash ball every ten seconds using the item switch. I reckon we'll just be able to enable them or disable them and the rest will be purely up to the luck of the game. Any other thoughts on this?

[Eulogic]

Cos really, do you expect to see a SB every match you play? FS's will really become trivial if we can suddenly summon a smash ball every ten seconds using the item switch. I reckon we'll just be able to enable them or disable them and the rest will be purely up to the luck of the game. Any other thoughts on this?

In some of the demo matches, there have been three final smash balls in only two minutes.

[Bigfoot]

Here's a funny little comic.

http://www.2pstart.com/2007/10/17/congratulations-are-in-order/

[linkspast]

Here's a funny little comic.

http://www.2pstart.com/2007/10/17/congratulations-are-in-order/


I am pretty sure I go to Church with the Ray guy in the comics....

[AarowSwift]

In some of the demo matches, there have been three final smash balls in only two minutes.

I imagine, like any other item (if it's like Melee) you can turn up or down the frequency of the item.

[friendlyHunter]

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2882/temp2ny6.jpg

I'm really hoping that this time, you can turn on/off specific item containers (boxes, barrels, capsules, exploding boxes, exploding barrels, exploding capsules, sliding boxes, exploding sliding boxes, party balls, sexy party balls, exploding sliding party box capsules, barrel party explosion balls, partly explosive box barrels, white sox box rawk hawk rocks socks 5 stock question mark block... ummmm, never mind)

[JackKieser]

I have to say, FH, at first I was gonna ask where that SS came from...

Well played, sir. Well played.

--Jack Kieser

[Dunther]

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2882/temp2ny6.jpg

I'm really hoping that this time, you can turn on/off specific item containers (boxes, barrels, capsules, exploding boxes, exploding barrels, exploding capsules, sliding boxes, exploding sliding boxes, party balls, sexy party balls, exploding sliding party box capsules, barrel party explosion balls, partly explosive box barrels, white sox box rawk hawk rocks socks 5 stock question mark block... ummmm, never mind)

Is this a real image? I've never see that...

[Airwalker]

Is this a real image? I've never see that...

Hardly.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/music/images/music08/music08_070907a-l.jpghttp://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2882/temp2ny6.jpg

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/music/music08.html

[Dunther]

Hardly.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/music/images/music08/music08_070907a-l.jpghttp://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2882/temp2ny6.jpg

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/music/music08.html

Ok, I was suspecting that but thanks ;)

[Airwalker]

Ok, I was suspecting that but thanks ;)

It only took me about a minute! It's really quite sad that when I saw that, I immediately knew which screenshot it was a photoshop of, and where I could find it

:-P.

[Bigfoot]

Just look at where it says "Items" :P

[Dunther]

Just look at where it says "Items" :P

I know I know....

Uff...tomorrow will be a new update but probably will be something that we all know yet :( ...

[E sharp]

If you look anywhere they swapped a word it looks like shit. Especially where it say items....This thing could be done on ms paint easy.

[friendlyHunter]

lol, that has to be the worst (and fastest) photo-manipulation (or in this case, screenshot-manipulation) I've ever done =P
I DO hope we get to change item frequencies something like that though... except with much more than 4 items on the screen at a time.

[E sharp]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I just wanna see the cane of pacci from minish cap as an item. Flipping people upsidedown would be so much fun.

[Airwalker]

lol, that has to be the worst (and fastest) photo-manipulation (or in this case, screenshot-manipulation) I've ever done =P
I DO hope we get to change item frequencies something like that though... except with much more than 4 items on the screen at a time.

I do give you props for alphabetizing the items. It had a little bit of authenticity to it. But I did think it strange to fill up so much space with 4 items per page, which would probably make tens and tens of pages in total.

[Bigfoot]

Here's a video that shows many final smashes if anyone hasn't seen them yet. You may want to turn down your volume though, because the woman in the video is sooooo annoying.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/120541.html

[Linkjing Donuts]

Here's a video that shows many final smashes if anyone hasn't seen them yet. You may want to turn down your volume though, because the woman in the video is sooooo annoying.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/120541.html
was that a ped suit samus at 0:53?

[Arek the Absolute]

God she is annoying.

[Binjovi]

was that a ped suit samus at 0:53?

It looks like either that or a fusion suit coloring of the typical varia suit. I still can't tell.

[Bigfoot]

It looks like either that or a fusion suit coloring of the typical varia suit. I still can't tell.

That's what I was getting ready to say too.

Also, I still think DK looks funny with white fur.

[supremespleen]

It looks like either that or a fusion suit coloring of the typical varia suit. I still can't tell.I'm pretty sure it's fusion coloring.

[Kiyosuki]

YOU guys think she was annoying!?

Try standing next to the people when playing the game. Even the people working at the booth had to hold their ears sometimes. Bloody banshees...

I swear I couldn't hear well for a day after.

[Hum4n After All]

That's what I was getting ready to say too.

Also, I still think DK looks funny with white fur.

He looked like one of the gorillas from Congo.

And Meta Knights FS was fucking awesome!
Reminded me of Akuma's special.
Ike's FS was pretty dope as well.

[Flare4War]

At 812 pages I'm not going to back track to see what's been said and what hasn't. I'm sure this has been long since talked about. (geez what a long thread)

Anyways, I work so I don't hear as much about video games as I used to, but I am a huge fan of SSB:M and I just found out Sonic was going to be included as one of the brawlers.

I thought that was pretty fuggin' tight.

[Kiyosuki]

He looked like one of the gorillas from Congo.

And Meta Knights FS was fucking awesome!
Reminded me of Akuma's special.
Ike's FS was pretty dope as well.

You liked Meta Knight's really? I thought it was kind of lame.

I mean the idea is cool and I guess a quick cut is fitting, but I just thought it was terribly anti-climactic a move. Its initial hit is kind of short too.

Ike's though is insane. That initial strike to hit them in the air and initiate the whole thing has huge range for a melee move. It seemed to catch opponents even when it didn't seem like it would. And it does fantastic damage, hits others when it comes down, doesn't leave Ike open really, and it looks great to boot. I'd have to say of all the FS's I tried it was the most effective with Pit's close behind in my opinion.

Here's an example of Metaknight's cheapness. Even though he eventually gets knocked out note just how tricky it is to even hit him despite the fact he's well above 100% damage because of all those bitchy little cut hits and his ability to float. This particular player isn't the best I've seen but it should give you an idea of his style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brFvqPbE6SI&NR=1

[Bigfoot]

Pikachu's looks pretty bad(not Powerglove BAD), but I'm sure once people play more to control it better, it'll be more effective.

[Kiyosuki]

Pikachu's looks pretty bad(not Powerglove BAD), but I'm sure once people play more to control it better, it'll be more effective.

The problem with it is its really surprisingly easy to block.

If it hits you, it does a lot of damage but it just goes so slowly plus the fact you can block it with just a standard bubble. Sidestep at most.

There was one fight where all the other players were inbetween 100%150 damage and Pikachu did his FS and they all blocked it and not one of them got eliminated.

[JoeFu]

Ike's looks so awesome.

I can't wait for this game. Even though Ike is slow, I think I'm going to use him the most just because he was my favorite character in FE:POR.

[linkspast]

wow... Picto chat, when I first looked at this I thought you were able to draw on the level with a DS. Ya know using that promised DS-Wii connectivity... .. ...

[Binjovi]

Whoa. Talk about an inventive stage. And the Pictochat icon is numbered 21 if anyone was interested.

[Mastertoku]

And the new icon is revealed.

Also, another good Sakurai quote:

"Oh! That's just divine." Although that sounds oddly effeminate.

[JackKieser]

Oh my freaking GOD! That is awesome. Truly, nothing is sacred anymore. This totally blew me away, as did the choices of music for the stage. Epic, classic, and totally off the wall.

A++!

--Jack Kieser

[Binjovi]

And the new icon is revealed. Anyone know which number this is?

Also, another good Sakurai quote:

"Oh! That's just divine." Although that sounds oddly effeminate.

Look up. Heheh.

[Strike911]

MAN!!

I too (at first) thought it was some kind of DS functionality. -_-

Man, if you could have a DS connected to the Wii and have someone drawing a level the entire time, or even just drawing static levels, that would be so much fun.

Anyway, about level. I love it. I'm glad to see interesting levels like this, that are unique and just plain fun. The choice in music is certainly funny and off the wall. I dig this one for creativity. It's not only Nintendo's characters being represented, but their actual hardware! awesome!

[Arek the Absolute]

kind of makes me think that animal crossing might just be a stage with no character representing it after all

[Global-Trance]

I approve of this stage with great righteous fury.

[Antipode]

Man, if you could have a DS connected to the Wii and have someone drawing a level the entire time, or even just drawing static levels, that would be so much fun.

This is the best idea! They REALLY need to do this. The DS player could be limited to only a certain length of line(s) and only every so often. Plus it doesn't seem like it would be incredibly hard to implement...just have a little mini-app sent to the DS before the match.

[Dunther]

What a strange thing...

Ok now we all know that the symbols (and the universes) will be more than 20.
But...will be a character of the 21st universe? I don't think so...but an AC character will probably be in, I read it somewhere...

[Eulogic]

omg tetris block confirmed as ds universe rep

[Paratha]

Tomorrow's update: Virtual Boy connectivity.

It's been said before, but the music tracklist for this game is going to be huge.

[Hobocop]

So is this supposed to be the new Pokefloats or what? I wonder how many "items" will be drawn, and whether some of them might be unlockable somehow. Great idea to make each drawing do something unique, though.

[DuskyFerret]

Also, another good Sakurai quote:

"Oh! That's just divine."

Yeah that's good but:
"Of course, you can climb up on the doodles"

Haha, it is quite sad that I find that somewhat amusing.

[Mastertoku]

What a strange thing...

Ok now we all know that the symbols (and the universes) will be more than 20.
But...will be a character of the 21st universe? I don't think so...but an AC character will probably be in, I read it somewhere...
Holy crap.

I was just joking before, but... if they're representing Nintendo systems as well as games... then Miis are actually semi-plausible. I know that they're Wii, um, people... but they have Wii music under the DS logo...

What else could they do?... a stylus as an item, maybe? Or that cat that appears on the News channel and the Photo channel?...

[Eulogic]

Or G&W under the DS icon. It had two screens too, y'know.

[Mastertoku]

Or G&W under the DS icon. It had two screens too, y'know.
True. And the original G&W icon was really, um, odd. If an icon could be unwieldy, then that would be it.

But if that's true... that would open up another space for icons.

[Dunther]

I was thinking that the today's update would be something that we had seen yet, like Sonic's Final Smash...but now I don't know what to expect for the next weeks...
When this game will come out what we will discover? Nothing? Or the big surprises (bigger than Sonic?) aren't revealed yet?

[Aninymouse]

I approve of this stage with great righteous fury.

Amen.


BUT!

If you really could send drawings to this stage with your DS, YOU KNOW (DON'T FUCKING DENY IT) THAT YOU'D PRETTY MUCH JUST DRAW LOTS OF COCKS. It's what Pictochat is for. And that is why it would be the worst/best idea ever: fighting on top of a giant, floating penis.

Edit:
Sakurai - "Whoa! Watch out, it's slippery up there! Are you're sure you'll be okay?"

I have not taken this harsh reality nearly far enough.

[Vyse the Three Eyes]

I don't know how much of Miyamoto's stash Sakurai had to go through to come up with this, but this is clearly the best argument you can make that drugs are good for you.

[Wipomatic]

Wow, everyone on the smashboards are crying over this.

[Global-Trance]

So now it's up to this...

01 - Smash Emblem
02 - DK Initials [Donkey Kong Series]
03 - Starfox Insigna [Starfox Series]
04 - Star [Kirby Series]
05 - Falcon Icon [F-Zero Series]
06 - S Logo [Metroid Series]
07 - Mother Symbol [Earthbound Series]
08 - Pokeball [Pokemon Series]
09 - Triforce [Zelda Series]
10 - Mushroom [Mario Series]
11 - Yoshi Egg [Yoshi Series]
12 - Sword [Fire Emblem Series]
13 - ?
14 - Eggplant [Ice Climber Series]
15 - Leaf [Animal Crossing Series]
16 - Wario's W [Wario Series]
17 - FOX Unit Logo [Metal Gear Solid Series]
18 - Pit's Bow [Kid Icarus Series]
19 - ?
20 - Hedgehog Head [Sonic Series]
21 - DS Icon [Nintendo DS.. Series?]

I'm almost positive #11 is going to be Mr. Game & Watch.
Icons 1-11 are all icons introduced in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 64.
Icons 12-14 are icons added for Super Smash Bros. Melee.
Icons 15-onward are the new additions for Brawl. I wonder what else we'll get after 21. I hope we aren't going to have icons without a character to represent it though. That would be sad and against tradition.

[Vyse the Three Eyes]

Wow, everyone on the smashboards are crying over this.

Is that even possible? I figured they would've run out of tears a long time ago.

[Dunther]

Wow, everyone on the smashboards are crying over this.

Someday we will look at the PictoChat with the same nostalgia that now we have for Game & Watch :) ...



I hope we aren't going to have icons without a character to represent it though. That would be sad and against tradition.

Man, I totally agree with you...it's difficult but...if Nintendo created Mr. Game & Watch, maybe we will see Mr. DS (???) soon...


Anyway, I think will be a "Wii" icon (with Miis as characters) and...who knows?

[Mr.Roboto]

Is that even possible? I figured they would've run out of tears a long time ago.

I would have expected them to have commited suicide over the fact that theres no Wavedashing in brawl.

WHERES MAH CAPTAIN FALCON!?

Also:Pictochat level is pretty awesome.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

So will the pictochat stage have a bunch of pictures of dicks?

[Baleshadow]

I'm pretty sure it's fusion coloring.

Yeah, it's blue and yellow, as opposed to blue and red/brown.

I am so looking forward to PictoChat. I hope they have the Everybody Votes channel music on there too.

[Dexie]

Hm. DS icon...Brain Age music under My Music...

Giant scary floating head from Brain Age confirmed as playable. :<

[Infinity's End]

Anyway, I think will be a "Wii" icon (with Miis as characters) and...who knows?

I think there is some definite truth to this statement... My guess is either they have a "create-a-character" with Animal Crossing, OR they just allow you to pop your Mii head on a girl or a boy shaped body and allow you to fight with yourself. Now THAT would be friggin' sweet.

[Ralphis]

Oh man, where will they draw the line with these levels!?

Eh, eh...?!

[Airwalker]

You think you know what to expect out of this game, and WHAM, they throw something like this at you.

[Wipomatic]

Oh man, where will they draw the line with these levels!?

Eh, eh...?!

I see what you did thar

[Sir_NutS]

awesomeness.

[E sharp]

So will the pictochat stage have a bunch of pictures of dicks?
What about badly drawn vaginas?

[Moseph]

Oh, and on this stage, you’ll also be able to enjoy Mii Channel music and Wii Shop Channel music, too.

So does this mean that OCR now accepts ReMixes made from the Mii Channel and Shop Channel music?

[eternal Zero]

So does this mean that OCR now accepts ReMixes made from the Mii Channel and Shop Channel music?

Probably not, but if it does, then you'll have to wait for the game's release.

On another note: That level looks awesome. There should be a customize option for that one, hehe.

[E sharp]

Have you already remixed it? Cause I wanna hear it reguardless.

[nohero]

omg tetris block confirmed as ds universe rep
Well, if Sakurai's gotten bored of the OCR boards and been looking over at GameFAQs, I wouldn't count this one out yet...


So now it's up to this...

01 - Smash Emblem
02 - DK Initials [Donkey Kong Series]
03 - Starfox Insigna [Starfox Series]
04 - Star [Kirby Series]
05 - Falcon Icon [F-Zero Series]
06 - S Logo [Metroid Series]
07 - Mother Symbol [Earthbound Series]
08 - Pokeball [Pokemon Series]
09 - Triforce [Zelda Series]
10 - Mushroom [Mario Series]
11 - Yoshi Egg [Yoshi Series]
12 - Sword [Fire Emblem Series]
13 - ?
14 - Eggplant [Ice Climber Series]
15 - Leaf [Animal Crossing Series]
16 - Wario's W [Wario Series]
17 - FOX Unit Logo [Metal Gear Solid Series]
18 - Pit's Bow [Kid Icarus Series]
19 - ?
20 - Hedgehog Head [Sonic Series]
21 - DS Icon [Nintendo DS.. Series?]

I'm almost positive #11 is going to be Mr. Game & Watch.
Icons 1-11 are all icons introduced in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 64.
Icons 12-14 are icons added for Super Smash Bros. Melee.
Icons 15-onward are the new additions for Brawl. I wonder what else we'll get after 21. I hope we aren't going to have icons without a character to represent it though. That would be sad and against tradition.

Didn't Master and Crazy have a hand emblem in Melee? If so, that could be icon 13, possibly even 19.

[Infinity's End]

Either of the hands would use the Smash Symbol.

[E sharp]

who else uses the smash symbol?

[Dunther]

who else uses the smash symbol?

All the bosses, all the original scenarios and all the trophies from universes that are not represented by the icons...

[Bigfoot]

Wow, everyone on the smashboards are crying over this.

They'll probably complain about the game becoming a huge success too.

[Dhsu]

So will the pictochat stage have a bunch of pictures of dicks?
Thanks to an epic session at the last OUS BBQ, we now refer to it as "DicktoChat."

[Global-Trance]

They'll probably complain about the game becoming a huge success too.

"Man I hate this game it's too good."

[Kureejii Lea]

"Oh god, an inventive stage! Us SERIOUS players need flat, featureless ground! It's not like we can just disable the stages we don't want to use!"

If you COULD use the DS to draw your own features in, I believe a waaaahmbulance would be appropriate here.

[defender!!]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZccEbPvzPEc

phew, i was worried

EDIT - ALSO, there are whispers that Jigglypuff is returning not as a playable, but as one of the pokémon you can summon from a pokéball. anyone have any information on this?

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

Whoa whoa, he said Luigi. Too bad without wavedash he'll suck

[megadave]

If you want a game like Melee, go play Melee.

[Binjovi]

Whoa whoa, he said Luigi. Too bad without wavedash he'll suck

That's assuming he'll be anything like his Melee incarnation. My guess is, he'll be reworked quite a bit. After all he has to lug around that vacuum everywhere he goes now.

[Bigfoot]

"Man I hate this game it's too good."

I was thinking along the lines of "Why do people like this game, it doesn't have WDing". :P

[Global-Trance]

"Oh god, an inventive stage! Us SERIOUS players need flat, featureless ground! It's not like we can just disable the stages we don't want to use!"

If you COULD use the DS to draw your own features in, I believe a waaaahmbulance would be appropriate here.

Us SERIOUS LAZY PLAYERS won't get RANDOM and maplisting until every map is opened up if it's anything like Melee. :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

[Nohbody]

That's assuming he'll be anything like his Melee incarnation. My guess is, he'll be reworked quite a bit. After all he has to lug around that vacuum everywhere he goes now.
My god, now that the novelty of owning a gamecube has worn off, I realize what a stupid idea Luigi's Mansion was. A vacuum. Almost as stupid as a talking tank of water.

[Global-Trance]

My god, now that the novelty of owning a gamecube has worn off, I realize what a stupid idea Luigi's Mansion was. A vacuum. Almost as stupid as a talking tank of water.

At least in Brawl with F.L.U.D.D. you can edge guard and push opponents away. What are you going to do with a vacuum? Help them back by sucking them in?

[Dunther]

At least in Brawl with F.L.U.D.D. you can edge guard and push opponents away. What are you going to do with a vacuum? Help them back by sucking them in?

Well...in Luigi's Mansion the Poltergust 3000 can shot fire and ice...
So, I don't know if it will be featured in Brawl but I will like some Luigi's Mansion tribute (men, I loved that game...)

[Silent Mike]

A Luigi's Mansion stage would be pretty cool.

[Ray Falling]

Even though it is very likely that Luigi will be in Brawl, I don't think that guy in the video "revealed" it for the sake of revealing it.
Rather, he sounded like he couldn't come up with character names, so he said "Mario and uhm Luigi..." since those two are often mentioned together in the same line anyway.

0_0 I did a test where I had to sum up as many professions/animals in 1 minute. It's surprising how little one can come up with under pressure.

n_n; so uhm, yeah.

Seeing how huge the fanbase of this series is, it doesn't make sense to leave out any of the previous characters, though did Sakurai actually say some characters were cut from the list?

[Global-Trance]

There's no reason to remove Luigi. He's been a "secret" character each game so far. He's too likable.

[Bigfoot]

At least in Brawl with F.L.U.D.D. you can edge guard and push opponents away. What are you going to do with a vacuum? Help them back by sucking them in?

Throw that thing in reverse!

[Global-Trance]

Throw that thing in reverse!

"She's gone from suck... to blow!"

http://blogs.tampabay.com/photos/uncategorized/spaceballs_1.jpg

[The Author]

Tomorrow's update:

Captain Falcon.






as an assist trophy.

[Fishy]

Don't even joke about that. The world will asplode if that happens. Its like dividing by 0.

[The Author]

Don't even joke about that. The world will asplode if that happens. Its like dividing by 0.
Well, that's the Big Brain Academy character's final smash.

[Bigfoot]

Tomorrow's update:

Captain Falcon.






as an assist trophy.

Followed by Nintendo exploding from all the hate mail/phone calls.

[Antipode]

This game will be dead to me without my falcon.

Ok not really but seriously, I need my falcon.

[Drack]

That guy who said Luigi just sounded like a marketing guy who just said Luigi from memory. "It's a Mario game, duh! Of course it has Luigi!"

So I wouldn't consider Luigi any more confirmed after this vid.

Pictochat looks fun, but the "soandso has entered the chat" looks like it will get old quick.

[Eulogic]

Yeah. In another interview, that guy said that Mario Party DS would be the first portable entry in the series. I guess he never played Mario Party Advance.

[Brushfire]

I get this funny feeling that if we are indeed able to draw stages, everyone who is under the age of 10 (both phsically and mentally) will draw male genitalia as a stage then snicker about it on Youtube.

Come to think of it that is pretty funny....

Also there is a guy I work with who has never seen Spaceballs. That has got to be some kind of sacrelige.

[Dunther]

Well, that's the Big Brain Academy character's final smash.

LOL, no words to say X'D

[Red Shadow]

I did a test where I had to sum up as many professions/animals in 1 minute. It's surprising how little one can come up with under pressure.

Haha, bet you'd be horrible at King's Cup

[Kureejii Lea]

EDIT - ALSO, there are whispers that Jigglypuff is returning not as a playable, but as one of the pokémon you can summon from a pokéball. anyone have any information on this?

No, but I heard that Lucario of all things would be playable. Oh, rumourmill, whose hopes won't you crush?

[Airwalker]

No, but I heard that Lucario of all things would be playable. Oh, rumourmill, whose hopes won't you crush?

I've yet to really understand why people like Lucario so much. Maybe there's something in the new cartoons about it? In any case, he does look like a cool character to play as.

[Thalzon]

It was assumed since he's a personal favourite of the Pokeyman creator, or so it is said. Also, that he's gotten his own movie.

I'd prefer Machamp (4 arms!) or Tyrogue (evolutionary final smash into Hitmonlee, chan, or top would be sweet) to Lucario, though.

[Dunther]

It was assumed since he's a personal favourite of the Pokeyman creator, or so it is said. Also, that he's gotten his own movie.

I'd prefer Machamp (4 arms!) or Tyrogue (evolutionary final smash into Hitmonlee, chan, or top would be sweet) to Lucario, though.

Yeah, there are many good fighting Pokémons....but I hope in MewTwo's return..

[Kutrayn]

http://comic.legendaryfrog.com/post/archive.php?show=month&month=10&year=2007

Figured this was a good place to put some Sonic/Brawl humor.

[Bigfoot]

http://comic.legendaryfrog.com/post/archive.php?show=month&month=10&year=2007

Figured this was a good place to put some Sonic/Brawl humor.

On that note, it'd be nice if they made rings fly instead of an explosion when Sonic is defeated.

[friendlyHunter]

On that note, it'd be nice if they made rings fly instead of an explosion when Sonic is defeated.

On that note's note, it looks from the demo like star-KO's are back. Wario's mighty WeEEIeeiEHHhh!!! will not go unheard!

Also, yes, that's almost definitely the Fusion suit colors in that video. The "getting suit back" FS doesn't look much like the Crystal Flash... can anyone confirm whether it actually heals Samus or not? If not, for all we know the SSBB team doesn't know the Crystal Flash exists =p

[Arek the Absolute]

old
-------

[Aninymouse]

Blast, it is simply the DK movie we already saw.

That said, it's the greatest fooking footage of DK to date most likely!

And, hey, there's sound now.

[Hobocop]

Vast quantities of his precious bananas have been stolen!
And by a very familiar hand...

Oh please by K. Rool... did anyone recognize the music by any chance?

Edit: "hand"? darn, nevermind I guess

[Brushfire]

That video doesn't make any sense. Bowser likes princesses, not bananas.

Unless....

That's just gross!!

[DuskyFerret]

Yea, glad to see they brought back some music from DKC. That was a nice tune in the background.

And also, going back a bit to the vaccuum cleaner discussion for Luigi, I suggest maybe it's a clone of Kirby's move and maybe the vaccuum cleaner gains the power of the different ppl it sucks in, just like it had some powers in Luigi's Mansion.

[Binjovi]

Yea, glad to see they brought back some music from DKC. That was a nice tune in the background.

And also, going back a bit to the vaccuum cleaner discussion for Luigi, I suggest maybe it's a clone of Kirby's move and maybe the vaccuum cleaner gains the power of the different ppl it sucks in, just like it had some powers in Luigi's Mansion.

That seems a bit unlikely, but I guess it is a possibility. My first thought on the poltergust is it could possibly be used as a "long"-ranged grab, as well as a tether recovery (since that seems to be a bit more common in this game). It could also shoot fire and ice in Luigi's Mansion, so that's a possibility as well. Still, he'll most likely have the vacuum at least in one move (Mario got FLUDD after all). The poor guy finally gets his own game and now vacuums are synonymous with his name.

[Strike911]

Hmm...

I gotta be honest, I can't understand how people take those showfloor people seriously, they're about the equivalent of a hall monitor, except they don't have a hall pass or... well, any authority whatsoever. They're baby sitters that are supposed to pimp Nintendo's stuff in a "GOSH DARN EXCITING WAY... uk-yuk!" and make sure you don't break the machines playing them. Then they usher you away so they clean up the showfloor. Get real they know nothing!

I mean, hell, these people (no offense to them) are peons that are in no way involved with the creation of the game and know nothing more than we do (in fact, they probably know less.)

My two gold coins.

AND... I can just feel the impending updates of nothingness these next two weeks (or more!!). It'll be constant updates of stuff we've already seen from the demo. Advance Wars Assist Trophy. Ike's Final Smash. Some more pokemon. what else do we not really care about seeing? Haha. That'll be it. hehe.

oh, and I don't think they'll scrap Captain Falcon. He's the main character of F-Zero. They have to keep him in the game, imo.


SAKURAI: This is Captain Falcon from Melee! Isn't he grand?

SAKURAI: We're showing you a Melee screencap because we didn't put him in Brawl. Isn't it magnificent? We were worried about misrepresentation actually...

SAKURAI: We will replace Captain Falcon with the most obscure F-Zero character imaginable... DRIVER OF THE SUPER PIRAHNA ... the SINGING MEGASTAR DIVA ... KATE ALEN!

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/5/57/250px-F-zero_wp_m12_kate_800.jpg

SAKURAI: You go girl! Isn't she funky fresh?

SAKURAI: In one fell swoop, we will tackle the troubles of racial intolerance in the world of Smash Bros!

SAKURAI: She is very black is she not?

... mark my words.

[Amayirot Akago]

Lawl, Donkey Kong's kicking Koopa ass and taking names. Pretty sweet video, except why the heck would Bowser steal his bananas?

On the other hand, why would several characters from different Nintendo franchises fight each other? The world may never know.

[nohero]

No, but I heard that Lucario of all things would be playable. Oh, rumourmill, whose hopes won't you crush?

I'm pretty sure that rumor got spread due to a fake trailer that my roommate was convinced was real.

[DuskyFerret]

Then again... why the hell does K.Rool keep stealing the bananas as well?

Bowser and K. Rool are both reptile like thingies...kinda...so what's with them and their obssession with stealing bananas?

Then again, why is a monkey running around trying to get them back armed with a peanut-firing pistol? I think it's best not to question these things, and just be happy you get to beat the crap out of whoever puts their grubby little hands on your bananas.

[Brushfire]

I'm glad they brought the long forgotten art of bullet time to Brawl. I gotta give the props for yet another nugget of nostalgia.

[supremespleen]

I think I'm going to not watch cutscenes when they get posted. Seems like it'll take the fun out of playing adventure mode.

[Ninja-san]

I found this mornings update to be greatly entertaining for some reason.

[Dunther]

I am a big fan of the DKC series and I liked the music in the video but...I didn't recognize it :( ...

[anthonium]

I am a big fan of the DKC series and I liked the music in the video but...I didn't recognize it :( ...

You should. It's from the first Donkey Kong Country.

Anyway I did like this update even though it was not that big a deal. It makes me wish they brought back Donkey Kong in a true platform game like the old DKC series not the garbage they've recently been doing with him.

[iskyoork]

they really are going to fill the disc this time aren't they? Between music,movies, characters, this game is going to be crammed.

[Dunther]

You should. It's from the first Donkey Kong Country.

Anyway I did like this update even though it was not that big a deal. It makes me wish they brought back Donkey Kong in a true platform game like the old DKC series not the garbage they've recently been doing with him.

True! It's...Jungle Japes!

Well...the DKC series probably will not return but instead we have DK Jungle Beat that is not bad and this Smash that is somewhat similiar...

Maybe one day we'll see back DK, Diddy, Dixie, the Kremlings, K.Rool, and all the strange animals of the DKC series....maybe...

[Admiral_C]

they really are going to fill the disc this time aren't they? Between music,movies, characters, this game is going to be crammed.

NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHING!!!


...insert disc 2...

(>.<)

[Hum4n After All]

Yeah the music was dope.
It was the night version of Jungle Japes.
Then they changed it up a bit.

[Cecilff2]

"Vast quantities of his precious bananas have been stolen!
And by a very familiar hand..."
Looks like I wasn't the only one hoping for K.Rool here.

[Airwalker]

they really are going to fill the disc this time aren't they? Between music,movies, characters, this game is going to be crammed.

Wii disks are capable of a dual-layer DVD, about 8.5 gigabytes, which is very close to the 360's capacity. But 360 games have to worry about HD-quality. Now, compare that to the Gamecube's old disks, which had a maximum capacity of 1.5 gigabytes.

I think they can fill it and still have room.

[E sharp]

Vast quantities of his precious bananas have been stolen!
And by a very familiar hand...

Yeah....that was abit misleading. I was looking forward to seeing K.Rool and all the cruel things him and the kremlims could do....ok that was a lame attempt to weed out a pun.

Now I want Clubba and K.Rool in smash. Clubba would be the shit.

[Hum4n After All]

Wasn't it Krusha?

[MasterSenshi]

I'm still holding out for some additional enemy characters... we don't even have Ganondorf back yet. I'd be a little pissed if it was just Bowser and a slew of good guys. K.Rool would rock, especially if he had his blunderbuss with it's lightning, fire and ice shots. Or just a bunch of goons to hide behind as a shield. He could have some of the giant clubbas from DK 64 come in and klobber you as a Final Smash.

And yes I did say 'klobber'.

[Bigfoot]

There must be something special in those bananas.

I mean, look at all of those bananas in the areas where you fight bosses. DK and the gang definitely must have been growing some special bananas.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3324/dkcosn018qk0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Hum4n After All]

There must be something special in those bananas.

I mean, look at all of those bananas in the areas where you fight bosses. DK and the gang definitely must have been growing some special bananas.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3324/dkcosn018qk0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I agree.
Why else would Funky Flights exist?
To export DK's special bananas.

[E sharp]

Wasn't it Krusha?
I don't remember. I think it might've been Krusha, it's been a while since I've played DKC2

[Scufo]

I thought it was Klubba. Y'know...cause he holds a club. Or maybe that was the boss who looked the same.

[Hum4n After All]

I don't remember. I think it might've been Krusha, it's been a while since I've played DKC2

I think you are correct about Klubba.
I'm thinking of Krusha from DK64.
But Klubba was that one krock that you had to pay to get to secret place.
Kudgel was the exact same thing but gray and he was the boss.
He jumped around and TNT crates fell down.
Shooooot.
It's all coming back to me now.
I think I gotta buy DKC 1&2 on the VC when I get home.

[TheCatPhysician]

i know this is late but i just want this clarified

Gamers using all at their disposal to win is not very professional at all.why not? the whole point of banning things is to regulate what you can and can't use. everything allowed can be used, and one of the main things about playing a game competitively is learning for yourself to make the very best of your options.

i didn't discover wavedashing for myself, but i have discovered a few little things with my characters after thinking logically about how things work in the game and with lots of experience, and that's a really cool feeling. it feels a lot cooler than simply leveling up in a game like WoW, where you get better by logging more hours in the game. playing a game competitively like this, you get better by learning and thinking. the only limit to how fast you can learn is yourself. i dunno, i find it pretty fun.


also, exploiting is FUN, people (don't take this quote out of context please). get the negative connotations of the word "exploit" out of your head or use a different word if you have to, but exploiting is necessary even for casual players. if you never exploited anything, than you wouldn't be any better than you were the first time you played the game. in smash, you and your opponents start with the exact same options, and the winner is determined by who can use these options better. if you can figure out how to use something in a new and useful way, exploit that shit. obviously broken tactics and glitches are bound to come about, and that's why things are banned. if it isn't banned, it's fair game to use.

[MasterSenshi]

I agree. The whole point of competitive gaming is a little anarchronistic to me... we play games for fun. If you want to bet, or whatever, that's your business, but basing how a game should be MADE so that a small number of gamers can have a more efficient fighting system flies in the face of the purpose of gaming.

Playing against friends, or strangers is obviously fun, but honestly, random elements that can turn a game in favor or against are fairly spread, if you play long enough. The idea of turning off items, just so you can see who's better may be great in theory, but I like the insanity of smash bros to the more subdued, usual caste of fighting games. Why mess with what brought us to the series in the first place... there's always Tekken for purists, or even Street Fighter, if you want to go old school.

Some games, like a lot of RPGs I've played, are made for the accomplishment of finishing a compelling and difficult objective. Others are fun simply because they are meant to be fun. Smash Bros is the kind of speculative "What if" type of game that goes into the latter category. Even the Smash blog is irreverent, so I say, put in anything and everything in the game; if you don't like it turn it off, but the idea of excluding things because it 'might' screw up the game is ludicrous to me.

[Global-Trance]

The more options we have to play the better. If it appeals to someone in every group then that works for me.

Edit: Kong sig.

[Bigfoot]

Haha, nice work GT. I loved that in the video.

[ds is trash]

there's a crunch berry under the fridge http://shutter10.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/01/001/7E/F7/72/DA/KHrNMZjcs-L0F9R1A0H6c0yZPHWo6KTd0025.jpg

[E sharp]

i know this is late but i just want this clarified

why not? the whole point of banning things is to regulate what you can and can't use. everything allowed can be used, and one of the main things about playing a game competitively is learning for yourself to make the very best of your options.

i didn't discover wavedashing for myself, but i have discovered a few little things with my characters after thinking logically about how things work in the game and with lots of experience, and that's a really cool feeling. it feels a lot cooler than simply leveling up in a game like WoW, where you get better by logging more hours in the game. playing a game competitively like this, you get better by learning and thinking. the only limit to how fast you can learn is yourself. i dunno, i find it pretty fun.


also, exploiting is FUN, people (don't take this quote out of context please). get the negative connotations of the word "exploit" out of your head or use a different word if you have to, but exploiting is necessary even for casual players. if you never exploited anything, than you wouldn't be any better than you were the first time you played the game. in smash, you and your opponents start with the exact same options, and the winner is determined by who can use these options better. if you can figure out how to use something in a new and useful way, exploit that shit. obviously broken tactics and glitches are bound to come about, and that's why things are banned. if it isn't banned, it's fair game to use.

. o O ( Marvel vs Capcom 2 would be boring as shit if I didn't exploit everything there is in that game......lame.)

Me and my brothers play MVC2 all the time and do the "cheapest" things we can think of. We pull out all the stops, pick the best of the best characters and win at all cost. Before we used to "play fair" and it was boring. It was limited. there was no freedom. But when we started doing everything we all developed different ways to play, and the fight got alot more interesting.

You get stuck in an infinite combo....well that's your fault for not seeing the obvious coming. You're trapped? big deal.

The best part is that when I play them I even have fun if I lose [which is the point isn't it? to have fun.]

[TheCatPhysician]

. o O ( Marvel vs Capcom 2 would be boring as shit if I didn't exploit everything there is in that game......lame.)

Me and my brothers play MVC2 all the time and do the "cheapest" things we can think of. We pull out all the stops, pick the best of the best characters and win at all cost. Before we used to "play fair" and it was boring. It was limited. there was no freedom. But when we started doing everything we all developed different ways to play, and the fight got alot more interesting.

You get stuck in an infinite combo....well that's your fault for not seeing the obvious coming. You're trapped? big deal.

The best part is that when I play them I even have fun if I lose [which is the point isn't it? to have fun.]

haha cool, i've never played MvC2 but i've heard all about it. people on SRK call smash "mvc junior"

anyway as someone said, yeah it would be stupid of the developers to make the next brawl only to cater to the competitive gamers. we're like 2% of the people who are going to buy the game. in melee they managed to make it awesome for both though, but in brawl it looks like they might be ignoring competitive play altogether. yes, it's too early to tell though.

[E sharp]

haha cool, i've never played MvC2 but i've heard all about it. people on SRK call smash "mvc junior"

anyway as someone said, yeah it would be stupid of the developers to make the next brawl only to cater to the competitive gamers. we're like 2% of the people who are going to buy the game. in melee they managed to make it awesome for both though, but in brawl it looks like they might be ignoring competitive play altogether. yes, it's too early to tell though.

I really don't think that they're going to neglect the competitive gamers. Nintendo's not that stupid. They make their money be appealling to everyone and dishing out a quality product.

[The Derrit]

oh hai guys, so i was reading gimpyfish's E for All impressions and he says that l-canceling occurs if you're fastfalling while doing an attack, you must be fastfalling before you use the attack, but if you do lag is canceled. at least by the demo. If true its certainly a step in the right direction.

[Kiyosuki]

Thats interesting.

I could never fastfall because its so hard to do on the Wii-Remote for some reason.

[Bigfoot]

So I was at my local arcade when I saw something familiar with Brawl..

Peanut guns, haha.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8302/peanutgun1zi6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4356/peanutgun2va0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Brushfire]

What the Cha? That is zanier than any light gun game we got in Japan.

[Paratha]

It makes me wish they brought back Donkey Kong in a true platform game like the old DKC series...

QFT. DKC2 remains the pinnacle of the platformer genre in my opinion.
And yeah, Klubba was the guy to whom you paid Kremcoins to enter the Lost World.

[Azul v2]

So, recording gameplay videos and sending them to your friends. Bet you would have never thought of that, eh?

[Binjovi]

"It feels great to use all of your knowledge and techniques to shave off a hundredth of a second."

There you have it, folks. Sakurai himself approves of taking advantage of exploits. :<
Also further proof that he reads the OCR forums daily.

By the way, replays FTW!

[Arek the Absolute]

i can see easyp sending me like 100 movies a week of his replays

[Effef]

I wonder if you have an SD card you can save more than 3 minutes of replay

[DuskyFerret]

Just when we thought Brawl couldn't get much better, they keep delivering.

This replay thing will be awesome, so when once in a while something awesome does happen in-game we can save it whenever.

I can still remember this one time when playing Melee with a friend when this option would have been so good. We're on battlefield, and there is a mine on every platform. My friend is over 100% and I hit him into one of the mines, he then collects every mine on each platform and goes flying into oblivion. It was absolutely unreal...we pissed ourselves. :-P

[Global-Trance]

Gotta break 'em

[friendlyHunter]

I can still remember this one time when playing Melee with a friend when this option would have been so good. We're on battlefield, and there is a mine on every platform. My friend is over 100% and I hit him into one of the mines, he then collects every mine on each platform and goes flying into oblivion. It was absolutely unreal...we pissed ourselves. :-P
But now you can piss yourself again and again! =D


I have to say, I'm very happy about this update. It looks like there are 5 "break the target" maps in total (as opposed to 5 per character). There are probably too many characters to make a whole new target breaking level for each ^_^ Also, more generic target levels will let you be a lot more creative, rather than following a pretty-much laid-out path (though there were exceptions in the previous games... I don't think I've actually played much of Melee's Break the Targets though).

In SSB for the 64, Luigi was unlocked by setting records in those little stages, no? Was he unlocked this was in Melee too? If I recall, Falcon was unlocked in SSB by beating single player mode really fast. For anyone who's itching for a Falcon update: wait 'till the game comes out and then beat Supspace Emissary as fast as you possibly can! Whether they have a website update for him or not, he's guaranteed to be in there.

And saving replays?! =D I wonder how that will work... I hope you don't have to play short 3-minute matches if you want to save something that happened at the start of the match.... perhaps you control what is saved from the pause screen? (e.g. when you pause it, you can save the previous x seconds of the match). Probably not though, because then it would need to store game states, as opposed to just the inputs... unless it stores state data temporarily... or something.....

Oh yeah, remember the first Brawl trailer revealed a "walking while crouching" thing? Can you still do this in the demo? If so, does Samus turn into a ball? Ah curiosity, you captious trickster.

I'm also curious about DK's Final Smash... in the video I saw, it looked pretty weak (probably the guy didn't know what he was doing, or simply couldn't hear the music over those cacophonous crones.)


Ah thesauri, you frolicsome tomes.

[SilverStar]

With Snake, SSBB hit legendary status. With Sonic, it hit perfection. With replays and recording for proving your pwnage, it has transcended its own limitations and become something so much greater.

And there's still 4 months to go.

[Gerbah]

Oh man, replays are gonna be awesome! I too have a time when that would have come in real handy... On the fountain of dreams level, where it plays that kinda epic orchestral music (you know), me and my friend both played as Yoshi. It was so weird, 'cause we each just quietly decided to not attack right off the bat but to just crouch and stare at eachother. And then right as the music picked up we charged at eachother, we even managed to hit eachother on almost every note! If that wasn't enough, one of us also managed to grab a mushroom a couple times when the music went low in pitch. I would've loved that replay... It was just so, weird.

[Mr.Roboto]

With Snake, SSBB hit legendary status. With Sonic, it hit perfection. With replays and recording for proving your pwnage, it has transcended its own limitations and become something so much greater.

And there's still 4 months to go.

They have yet to release Captain Falcon.

It's still imperfect.