Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[mr.wholesome]

1000TH!!!!!

game looks fun, actually i havent seen anything about this game.

[Broken]

Fin>Eliwood.

Fin>all other characters.
QFE

Leif has that pimped out Lord suit, too.

[Dexie]

I would like to nominate Jill from Drill Dozer for SSBB status. Although something tells me she's already a shoe-in, considering all the NINTENDO logos in the game's 4th area.

QFE.

[quine]

EDIT- Found the tournament results:


Whoa, that's crazy. I know a lot of those people, but haven't talked to them in a while after fading out from the SSB community several months ago. Hmm, Cort and Saver, Unknownforce. Oh, and PC Chris, definitely. And some of the other names ring a bell, too.

Edit: Jiggs's Wall of Pain doesn't work terribly well on Marth, hm? What with his giant range and all. At least you can DI out of anything he tries to draw you into, like short hopped double fairs or nairs strung together. But offensively, it's hard to get through his quick aerials.

I like throwing these terms around. It brings back good memories.

[Global-Trance]

Any videos of the matches from the tournament?

[quine]

Any videos of the matches from the tournament?

If so, they'll probably be on the SSBM DC++ hub.

[anthonium]

What I want is video replay for the next Smash Brothers. That way those who play against me can relive their shame in being beaten.

[linkspast]

What I want is video replay for the next Smash Brothers. That way those who play against me can relive their shame in being beaten.

AMEN. that would be awsome, i was thinking about that my self. it be cool if you could then post them online.

[Arek the Absolute]

ken, recepherus, azn + anden, dezee, the doug, and robpimpfalco where not there, making me not interested in said tournament

[RocketSniper]

I played in a tourney a while ago...

Second place.
I got beat by a Ganondorf when I was Fox. I started out winning, but he eventually figured out how to counter me... and I think I ended up getting kinda scared of him, jumping straight into predictable tactics.

It was single elimination too, so it's not like either of us had lost any previous matches...

I want a rematch. =/

[Global-Trance]

ken, recepherus, azn + anden, dezee, the doug, and robpimpfalco where not there, making me not interested in said tournament
:)

My buddies play with Ken. Freaking awesome.

[The Mutericator]

What I want is video replay for the next Smash Brothers. That way those who play against me can relive their shame in being beaten.

AMEN. that would be awsome, i was thinking about that my self. it be cool if you could then post them online.

Whilst using the Wiimote to control camera angles.

[Unstable Hamster]

What I want is video replay for the next Smash Brothers. That way those who play against me can relive their shame in being beaten.

AMEN. that would be awsome, i was thinking about that my self. it be cool if you could then post them online.

Whilst using the Wiimote to control camera angles.
Watch your friend's brutal defeat with every camera angle posible!

[quine]

ken, recepherus, azn + anden, dezee, the doug, and robpimpfalco where not there, making me not interested in said tournament
:)

My buddies play with Ken. Freaking awesome.

You live near LA? Ken is amazing with Marth, sure, especially coming out of nowhere and winning a tournament a few years back, but I'm not very fond of how he beat Bombsoldier in that Japanese tourney, with the chain throwing against Falco. I won't say it's cheap, but it's not very exciting to watch, and it's a bit of a take-every-advantage-you've-got tactic. I like Azen better. With his play-every-character philosophy.

Actually, Isai/Malva. With his insane SSB64 skills.

[Global-Trance]

ken, recepherus, azn + anden, dezee, the doug, and robpimpfalco where not there, making me not interested in said tournament
:)

My buddies play with Ken. Freaking awesome.

You live near LA? Ken is amazing with Marth, sure, especially coming out of nowhere and winning a tournament a few years back, but I'm not very fond of how he beat Bombsoldier in that Japanese tourney, with the chain throwing against Falco. I won't say it's cheap, but it's not very exciting to watch, and it's a bit of a take-every-advantage-you've-got tactic. I like Azen better. With his play-every-character philosophy.

Actually, Isai/Malva. With his insane SSB64 skills.

Yea I'm about an hour from LA. I haven't had the honor of playing anyone like Ken in a tournament yet, but just about everyone in my "Smash Crew" has played him or watched him play in person on several occasions. He is pretty nuts with Marth. I agree with what you said about the match against Bombsoldier. That chain throwing is disgusting, especially against heavies like Falco. It makes me sad inside cuz I'm a Falco user myself. :(

[Cerrax]

What music do you listen to while you smash?

Here's a list of artists I have on shuffle while I play:
Ego Likeness
VNV Nation
Guilty Gear X OST
Devil May Cry OST (battle themes only)
Soul Calibur III OST (battle themes only)
Metal Gear Solid OST(battle themes only)
Matrix Trilogy OST & Albums
Destroyer C
Zeromancer
Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust (battle themes only)
Any action theme from Harry Gregson-Williams

[genghisdani]

What music do you listen to while you smash?
The other day, I had Smashing...Live! on while I smashed.

[watkinzez]

Just checked engadget.com, it lists a possible rumour that Ubisoft characters could possibly in the mix.

The Characters in the article possible,
Jade (!)-Beyond Good and Evil
Sam Fisher-Splinter Cell
Rayman-needs no intro.
The Prince-Prince of Persia

http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2006/06/19/rumor-ubisoft-character-making-super-smash-bros-brawl-roster/

The thought of playing as Jade in a new game is too good for me. Maybe Ancel will finish the games supposed trilogy... here's to blind hope.

Rayman could actually be a possibility, but Jade? Don't make me drown in tears of joy.

[Jam Stunna]

Any videos of the matches from the tournament?

When I played shminkledorf, he recorded our match. I'm trying to get a copy of that video from him. I didn't really see anyone else recording though, so I'm not sure.

[Super-Duper Sombrero]

I was i na tournament a while ago. It was school-sponsored, though, ad everyone sucked. I easily took first...

[djwang88]

ken, recepherus, azn + anden, dezee, the doug, and robpimpfalco where not there, making me not interested in said tournament
:)

My buddies play with Ken. Freaking awesome.

You live near LA? Ken is amazing with Marth, sure, especially coming out of nowhere and winning a tournament a few years back, but I'm not very fond of how he beat Bombsoldier in that Japanese tourney, with the chain throwing against Falco. I won't say it's cheap, but it's not very exciting to watch, and it's a bit of a take-every-advantage-you've-got tactic. I like Azen better. With his play-every-character philosophy.

Actually, Isai/Malva. With his insane SSB64 skills.

Yea I'm about an hour from LA. I haven't had the honor of playing anyone like Ken in a tournament yet, but just about everyone in my "Smash Crew" has played him or watched him play in person on several occasions. He is pretty nuts with Marth. I agree with what you said about the match against Bombsoldier. That chain throwing is disgusting, especially against heavies like Falco. It makes me sad inside cuz I'm a Falco user myself. :(

As am I. And Bombsoldier plays an absolutely amazing Falco. His follow ups after Masashi's (at least, I think it's Masashi, I've forgotten a lot of stuff) Fox DIs after getting hit by shines are awesome.

Oh, and Falco is actually pretty light, but he falls the fastest in the game. Funny how he's a bird.

[quine]

Oh crap. I'm djwang88 but logged into the wrong account.

[Zeklan]

Bump.

[CE]

Guess what? Not only did Kojima get his character into Brawl, he's also designing the Metal Gear Solid stage for it!

According to the August 2006 issue of Nintendo Power magazine, Metal Gear Solid Creator Hideo Kojima is designing Solid Snake's stage in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

During Nintendo Power's "Point-Counter-Point" feature, Editor Chris Hoffman noted, "If you want to talk about something big, how about the news that Hideo Kojima, Snake's creator, is designing Snake's level in Brawl? Snake's inclusion means we're not only getting one of the best characters in gaming but one of the best developers as well.

Source: The Wiire (http://www.thewiire.com/news/384/1/Kojima_Designing_Snakes_Brawl_Stage)

We'll be getting some sweet stealth action, courtesy of Mr.Hideo.

[Murmeli Walan]

That's pretty neat, I'd say.

I wouldn't be suprised if Sakurai came up to Kojima and said, "If you want Snake in the game so damn badly, then you make his goddamn stage!" :lol:

[Thalzon]

For other fighters not yet revealed, I'm placing my bets on Jill from Drill Dozer and Viewtiful Joe. I have no idea why, but these two just seem to be probable candidates.

[TheCatPhysician]

On the topic of Smash tournaments, is anyone going to OC2?

[linkspast]

wow Hideo and Nobou on the same game........ Wow....this is the revolution.

[CE]

wow Hideo and Nobou on the same game........ Wow....this is the revolution.

And Miyamoto, in a way. Too bad Nobou won't do anything else besides the man theme.

I'm still rooting for Simon Belmont, Liquid Snake and Megaman. Those are the ones I'd really like to be in. We should start placing bets in some way...

Yet, I don't expect to see any other major news before November, to say the least. Maybe we'll get a bit more info on the 23th, at Nintendo's keynote speech at GC, entitled "Wii prove our promise" ( :lol: ) but not much.

With the spirit of keeping the thread alive, I'll share the story of my first and only gaming tournament. It was a SSBM tournament, one year after the game came out. Ah, good times. A guy in front of me was wearing a Starfox Adventures T-Shirt he made himself, and fiercly claimed it would be the greatest SF game ever. Poor guy :D

I was amazed by the grandeur of the event. Never had I seen so many gamers in one place. Take notice, Portugal isn't the most gaming country around, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that the wierdo to regular guy ratio was at about 1:6. Not bad.

Organized by a popular gaming magazine, the tournament had Super Smash Bros. Melee for the GC, Pro Evolution Soccer...3 I think, for the PS2 and the brand new Halo for the Xbox, with some showing booths for all companies.

I was convinced I was pretty leet at SSBM and calmly walked up to the console for my first match. Woe is me, they had forgotten to tell me the rules of the match! They didn't have a cleared memory card... so no extra stages, no extra characters and, worst of all, all the matches were 2 min Time matches, while I was bluntly used to 3 stock matches. My strategy was shaken, but not my convicion. I was planning on using Ganondorf, but Link was my second best so I chose him. The first match was against a DK. He kept going "oh man, you're so screwed, DK has great horizontal recovery" and I said "Uhh... ok, sure, can we play now?"

The sap was sorely beaten 4 to 1. His horizontal recovery didn't do him much good while he was sent flying upwards.

I won the next match easily against a Fox user and was getting pretty confident. Then came along a little brat using Zelda. No, Shiek. Stupid Sheik. That was when I realized Link was a bit too slow to be a good character. Pokemon Stadium was the stage and the items favored him. He got the first KO with the hammer, the second with that red pokemon...uhhh scissor or something, the third with a bomb-omb and the fourth with lightining fast speed, just for the humiliation.

The kid went on to get 2nd place, and I went home.

It was a fun experience. None of the gamers were uber-pros, not wavedashing or any of that fancy stuff people use nowadays, most of which I've never heard of. (Dash-Dancing? Huh? What? Just get off mah lawn ya damn kids!). Simple fun.

I've never gone to any other tournament after that, though I did observe a CS one a couple years later. They're funny as hell while they are concentrated playing.

Good times.

[ILLiterate]

Out of all the guest stars that can come in, I have never seen anyone say Ryu or Ken. It would work out fine

[Arek the Absolute]

ken, recepherus, azn + anden, dezee, the doug, and robpimpfalco where not there, making me not interested in said tournament
:)

My buddies play with Ken. Freaking awesome.

You live near LA? Ken is amazing with Marth, sure, especially coming out of nowhere and winning a tournament a few years back, but I'm not very fond of how he beat Bombsoldier in that Japanese tourney, with the chain throwing against Falco. I won't say it's cheap, but it's not very exciting to watch, and it's a bit of a take-every-advantage-you've-got tactic. I like Azen better. With his play-every-character philosophy.

Actually, Isai/Malva. With his insane SSB64 skills.

Yea I'm about an hour from LA. I haven't had the honor of playing anyone like Ken in a tournament yet, but just about everyone in my "Smash Crew" has played him or watched him play in person on several occasions. He is pretty nuts with Marth. I agree with what you said about the match against Bombsoldier. That chain throwing is disgusting, especially against heavies like Falco. It makes me sad inside cuz I'm a Falco user myself. :(

As am I. And Bombsoldier plays an absolutely amazing Falco. His follow ups after Masashi's (at least, I think it's Masashi, I've forgotten a lot of stuff) Fox DIs after getting hit by shines are awesome.

Oh, and Falco is actually pretty light, but he falls the fastest in the game. Funny how he's a bird.

I do agree that Isai is pretty cool to watch, but I am an azen fan at heart.
Also rob is my homeboy, even if he is all the way in texas and we only met once at tg5
lalos n*ggas

also rec needs to play again :(

[Wolfstan]

If anyone ever wants to play SSB on PJ64k, I'm game.

[linkspast]

Out of all the guest stars that can come in, I have never seen anyone say Ryu or Ken. It would work out fine I dont think they would work out at all... there from a fighting game, and none of the other SSBB are. and common. how could you HADOKEN w/o
↓↘→p

[Global-Trance]

Out of all the guest stars that can come in, I have never seen anyone say Ryu or Ken. It would work out fine I dont think they would work out at all... there from a fighting game, and none of the other SSBB are. and common. how could you HADOKEN w/o
↓↘→p

Neutral B. It worked for Mario and Luigi.

Edit:Oh, and Falco is actually pretty light, but he falls the fastest in the game. Funny how he's a bird.
Yea, I meant heavy in the fact that he falls like he gets spiked all the damn time.

[linkspast]

Out of all the guest stars that can come in, I have never seen anyone say Ryu or Ken. It would work out fine I dont think they would work out at all... there from a fighting game, and none of the other SSBB are. and common. how could you HADOKEN w/o
↓↘→p

Neutral B. It worked for Mario and Luigi.

Edit:Oh, and Falco is actually pretty light, but he falls the fastest in the game. Funny how he's a bird.
Yea, I meant heavy in the fact that he falls like he gets spiked all the damn time.

just B Yeha i guess so. but that is how it is in any mario game. just one button. not a combo.

[Darth Lime]

I just can't wait to actually play with the Wii controller with any of those games, SSB:B in particular. The Wii is likely to be on my christmas list this year, since Nintendo announced it might be released as early as October.

[Cerrax]

I just can't wait to actually play with the Wii controller with any of those games, SSB:B in particular. The Wii is likely to be on my christmas list this year, since Nintendo announced it might be released as early as October.

Correct me if I'm wrong but SSBB will not use the Wii remote/nunchuck. It will use a regular GC controller.

[hamburglar]

I just can't wait to actually play with the Wii controller with any of those games, SSB:B in particular. The Wii is likely to be on my christmas list this year, since Nintendo announced it might be released as early as October.

Correct me if I'm wrong but SSBB will not use the Wii remote/nunchuck. It will use a regular GC controller.

It will use a regular GC controller. I think they're using the "if it's not broken don't fix it" mentality here.

[CE]

I just can't wait to actually play with the Wii controller with any of those games, SSB:B in particular. The Wii is likely to be on my christmas list this year, since Nintendo announced it might be released as early as October.

Correct me if I'm wrong but SSBB will not use the Wii remote/nunchuck. It will use a regular GC controller.

It will use a regular GC controller. I think they're using the "if it's not broken don't fix it" mentality here.

Yeah, either the casing, or your regular old controller. The Wiimot just doesn't work here.

Ryu would be pretty nice to have in the game, but it comes from a totally different fighting genre. It's classic 2D fighting as opposed to SSB's "Brawler"-style fighting game. Not only would it feel awkward, it would also ruffle the feathers of the SF fans, who almost gag at the thought of SSB being called a "fighting" game as it is, let alone if their poster boy, the hadoken-toting fighter, were to be included in the game. You might note some animosity in the last sentence, but there is none, I can assure you. Still, the oldskool fighter fans diss SSB as a "party game" and go back to the arcade perfecting that 30 input combo.

I consider the SSB series as one that's easy to pick up, but insanely tough to master. Masters of the game go into calculating dmg and timing recovery falls and their falling angles. It opens a totally new path of the genre. Still, Street Fighter remains as the undisputed fighting game, but I wouldn't say that the SSB series is too far behind.

[Murmeli Walan]

From what I've heard, while GC controllers will be the primary input device for SSBB, there will be some functionality with Wii controllers. What this means, though, is anybody's guess.

[The Mutericator]

From what I've heard, while GC controllers will be the primary input device for SSBB, there will be some functionality with Wii controllers. What this means, though, is anybody's guess.

I've heard none of this, but I'm all for Camera mode using the Wii controller.

[Cerrax]

From what I've heard, while GC controllers will be the primary input device for SSBB, there will be some functionality with Wii controllers. What this means, though, is anybody's guess.

I've heard none of this, but I'm all for Camera mode using the Wii controller.

YES.
And add a "Record" function plz. Snapshots are boring.

[Zeklan]

I doubt their will be any clones, but if Megaman makes it in I wouldn't mind seeing Protoman.
Although the chances of a Guest character having a clone are pretty close to nil.

I <3 Protoman.
I'd settle for a cameo though.

[Hum4n After All]

Okay Snake is gonna be in it.
And they said there was gonna be 1-2 more 3rd party characters they want to put in.
my guesses
Sonic~why? Because he should I mean c'mon you shouldnt even think of why he wont be in there.
Viewtiful Joe since Capcom and N go way back
or possibly Protoman as the guy above me mentioned
and Crash Bandicoot
since nobody really owns Crash anymore because Naughty Dog abandoned him and went on to doing Jak and Daxter. Curse J n D!

[CE]

Okay Snake is gonna be in it.
And they said there was gonna be 1-2 more 3rd party characters they want to put in.
my guesses
Sonic~why? Because he should I mean c'mon you shouldnt even think of why he wont be in there.
Viewtiful Joe since Capcom and N go way back
or possibly Protoman as the guy above me mentioned
and Crash Bandicoot
since nobody really owns Crash anymore because Naughty Dog abandoned him and went on to doing Jak and Daxter. Curse J n D!

Sonic? Aw God no... My reasons for not wanting him in the game have been stated here before... Viewtiful Joe would be iffy. You can't slo-mo or speed up, it would destroy the pace of the battle. Protoman would be fine as long as Megaman is in there first. And ND still owns Crash, although that wouldn't be a bad choice if I may say...

[Jam Stunna]

A heads-up for any Connecticut Smashers:

There will be a Smash Bros. Melee tournament held at Buckland Hills Mall in Manchester, CT this Saturday. Anyone interested can check out the thread on smashboards here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=79679

Be sure to come out and support the CT Smash scene! Plus, the more of you who show up, the mpre money I'll win when I take first place! :wink:

[KWarp]

8O

I'm going to get pwned online. :(

[The Mutericator]

I see no reason Sonic couldn't be included, considering the closeness between Sega and Nintendo right now. It's not like we have to worry about him being over or underpowered - if Sakurai can balance titans like Samus and Link and Kirby, Sonic will be no problem at all.

[Penfold]

Hopefully some news will be given about SSBB during GC, cuz that's some pretty boring/repetitive discussion happening on this thread lately :P.

[Penfold]

Hopefully some news will be given about SSBB during GC, cuz that's some pretty boring/repetitive discussion happening on this thread lately :P.

[Thalzon]

Viewtiful Joe would be iffy. You can't slo-mo or speed up, it would destroy the pace of the battle.

I figure it can focus on his other powers. For example, Up+B could be like his zoomed-in jump, Down+B he catches fire, damaging (but not stunning) anyone who touches him too long.

And his B move could be a slow, powerful punch, just like Falcon Punch. Smash+B could be the Voomerang.

[Zeklan]

Viewtiful Joe would be iffy. You can't slo-mo or speed up, it would destroy the pace of the battle.

I figure it can focus on his other powers. For example, Up+B could be like his zoomed-in jump, Down+B he catches fire, damaging (but not stunning) anyone who touches him too long.

And his B move could be a slow, powerful punch, just like Falcon Punch. Smash+B could be the Voomerang.

Don't forget the supers either.
His Slow-mo or Speed-up could easily be a super.

For Slow-mo, he could beat the crap out of someone mano-a-mano.
For Speed-up, he could zoom around the stage ruining multiple people.

That being said what do you guys think of multiple supers?
I'm mean it seems a little unfair that some charaters can deal massive damage to one guy or others can ruin whole stages.

What if you could choose between the two?
One for massive damage or one for area damage?

I mean take Link for example:
We've all seen his Omnislash-type super in the trailer but, let's say his area attack could be turning into the Wolf and zipping around the stage causing damage to all players. (I think it's a waste not to use the Wolf in some way.)

I think it could work...

[CE]

That's right, we need more speculation about the super moves! Go, go, go!

Also, I don't really think we'll hear anything about SSBB in GC...

[Power Surge]

Wario's Super Duper Ass Blast of DOOM FTW.

Regarding speculation of as yet unseen supermoves...let's see, Metaknight's could be that twister beam thing he used in Kirby Super Star that sweeps the arena. DK's (he'll be returning in this game, right?) could be an upgraded Spinning Kong attack in which he spins so fast that he turns into a twister. Pikachu's would be an uber-sized Thunder attack. As for Pit and Snake, I haven't played any of their games, so I got nothing.

[Crabsmasher]

I was playing Super Smash Bros Melee at my buddies house a few days ago and I forgot how much fun that game is. I don't have it so I hardly ever get to play it. I also discovered I am quite good with Ness.

Speaking of Ness, what would his super move be?

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

I'm going nuts wondering who the hidden characters will be.

[Broken]

Had to give Melee some love in this thread.

Wish I'd learned my melee techniques from this guy, lol. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSNOIUNCzeI)

P.S. This game ruins controllers. Hopefully Brawl won't require so much.....smashing.

[Arcita]

I was playing Super Smash Bros Melee at my buddies house a few days ago and I forgot how much fun that game is. I don't have it so I hardly ever get to play it. I also discovered I am quite good with Ness.

Speaking of Ness, what would his super move be?

PK Rockin Ω, definitely. It would look awesome in 3D, and it covers the whole screen, much like what the other characters' super moves seem to do. Damn, now I'm getting even more excited for this game!

[Zeklan]

I've finally got enough money squirreled away.
Now I can afford a Revolution, SSBB, and anything else I may need.

Now the iinbearable wait begins...

[Jam Stunna]

So, the month of August has been a good month for Smash Bros. Melee tournaments in CT. I went to a tourney on August 12th held at a local mall. There was a fair turnout, about 25 people or so. I easily defeated my first opponent with my Roy, beating his Link and then his Kirby for a straight-sets victory. My next opponent proved a little more difficult. He played with Yoshi, and beat me in the first round, but I rallied to beat him twice in a row and claim victory. Afterwards, I had the unfortunate pleasure of facing my friend JV Smooth in the semifinals of the winners bracket. He beat me in straight sets with his Peach. After that, I went to the losers bracket, where I faced my friendly rival, a kid who calls himself V. We've faced each other at every tournament that we've both been at, so we have a friendly rivalry. He won the first round by one stock, and I won the second round by one stock. The final round could have gone either way, but he triumphed with one stock left. It was the best match I've ever played, even though I ended up losing and being eliminated as a result. I finished 5th at that tournament I believe.

That Tuesday, a friend of ours hosted a Smashfest that he called Viva la Smash at his home. It was a two-day event, but my friend JV and I were only able to attend on Wednesday. There was a friendly free tournament, so we participated. I played Green Hunter first, a Smasher from Mass. that uses Samus (I think he may be a member of the Mages). He beat my Roy, then beat my Marth for a straight-set victory. Afterwards, I played three people in the losers bracket, and beat them all handily. But unfortunately, I had to face JV again at this tournament, and he beat and eliminated me. I tied for 7th at this tournament.

After that tourney, we all hung out playing friendly matches. I was choosing my characters randomly, and the Ice Climbers came up. I used to play with them pretty seriously, but I left them to focus solely on Roy. Since they came up on random, I played with them, and proceeded to own everyone I faced. I even played Green Hunter in a friendly, and I beat him. I was very surprised at how well I played with them after ignoring them for months. So I think I'm going to switch them back to being my main characters, in place or Roy. I'll practice up with them, and hopefully have them at 100% in time for the next tourney, which is only a few weeks away.

[cjl1217]

Sounds like an awesome installation of the series. Can't wait for more info.

[Jam Stunna]

I don't think anyone posted this, but they released a new tier list over a month ago, for anyone who's interested:


From http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=77926

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

[Hector]

I'm not sure about this new list. Falco is deadly, but Peach can shred Falco with the mere twirl of her dress.

Though Tiers are perhaps the wrong way to organize things. Maybe a logical counter-web given graphical form? Too many A beats B and C beats A but B beats C instances.

[G_D]

I don't think anyone posted this, but they released a new tier list over a month ago, for anyone who's interested:


From http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=77926

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

This list is crap. You know what tipped me off first? The fact that the Bottom Tier is the biggest. Everyone knows that SSBM is one of the most balanced fighters out there. A balanced game doesn't come from having the most bottom tier characters. It comes from having the most middle tier characters (actually a truly balanced game would have no tiers). Besides that, Link is definitely not worse than Jigglypuff or Mario, and Mario definitely needs to be a tier lower than Doctor Mario, not on the same tier. And what's with the new top tier? I don't know anyone who regularly wins with those two (other than the guy at school who always wins with every character).

/end rant

It's been far too long since I've played SSBM. I need to do that sometime.

[Red Shadow]

Ice Climbers
I'm curious as to whether or not I'm the only person here who is good with the ice climbers specifically after forcefully eliminating the cpu controlled one.

[CE]

Ice Climbers
I'm curious as to whether or not I'm the only person here who is good with the ice climbers specifically after forcefully eliminating the cpu controlled one.

wut? how?

[atmuh]

Ice Climbers
I'm curious as to whether or not I'm the only person here who is good with the ice climbers specifically after forcefully eliminating the cpu controlled one.
I used to only play as the Ice Climbers but I liked having the cpu controlled one around. I wasn't that bad either.

[Red Shadow]

Ice Climbers
I'm curious as to whether or not I'm the only person here who is good with the ice climbers specifically after forcefully eliminating the cpu controlled one.

wut? how?
Jump off the edge and grab onto a ledge.

[CE]

Ice Climbers
I'm curious as to whether or not I'm the only person here who is good with the ice climbers specifically after forcefully eliminating the cpu controlled one.

wut? how?
Jump off the edge and grab onto a ledge.

I know that, I mean how are you better?

[Ferret]

Ice Climbers. lol
Human players can't use them but the CPU is so cheap it's not funny.

[RocketSniper]

It's easier to see where you are, rather than getting a double image, nana is no longer around so it seems like you're able to dodge more attacks, even if you aren't.

Plus I'm pretty sure there's a slight delay when Nana's around that isn't there when she's dead.

I win consistently as Falco or Fox, but the top two tiers should be merged, with shiek moved to the middle tier.

The only characters that belong in the bottom tier are Game and Watch and Jigglypuff.

Yes, I am aware that Jigglypuff is ridiculous. I'm also aware that Jigglypuff is the most predictable fighter in the game. On ground, you can't do anything but rush forward, and in the air you're forced to do one of the punches. Rollout takes too long to be normally useful, and sleep's hitbox is too small. Jigglypuff is NOT on the same level as Captain Falcon or Mario.

[Red Shadow]

Ice Climbers
I'm curious as to whether or not I'm the only person here who is good with the ice climbers specifically after forcefully eliminating the cpu controlled one.

wut? how?
Jump off the edge and grab onto a ledge.

I know that, I mean how are you better?
Rocketsniper's got the basic idea really.

That and since the pc controls nana i might be trying to set an opponent up in some way, and right after i get them where i want them nana comes in and swings like a retard and knocks them away or in whatever other way ruins what i had planned.

I used to be able to get my friends to wait at the very start of a fight to let me kill her off, but now that they know why I do it they never give me the chance. :lol:

[Scufo]

Wow, Zelda got pushed to the bottom? I like Zelda...

Not that I actually play in tournaments or anything.

[Red Shadow]

gig, the thing is I'm not an anal enough player to learn all that type of stuff.

Fuck wavedashing and everything else too. My friends and I play it for fun.

[atmuh]

Fuck wavedashing and everything else too. My friends and I play it for fun.

[TheCatPhysician]

Fuck wavedashing and everything else too. My friends and I play it for fun.
Oh crap, GZC, why are we playing this game? We aren't having fun!

But seriously, you play casually, we play competitively. We both have fun. Get over it.

[JoeFu]

I just think its funny how they get so in depth into it and start making "tiers" and crap. I'm alright with a bunch of people and its still fun as a fighting game, or a party game, but I think it's most fun when all items are turned on, and everybody is always scrambling for the pokeball...

[Broken]

Fuck wavedashing and everything else too. My friends and I play it for fun.
Oh crap, GZC, why are we playing this game? We aren't having fun!

But seriously, you play casually, we play competitively. We both have fun. Get over it.

Wavedashing with Luigi FTW! Seriously, do it to your friend who's "too cool for advanced techniques"/ doesn't know wavedashing exists". Funny stuff.

I'll admit, I haven't played Melee in a while now, but I remember when I started trying to learn advanced techniques with characters it really opened up a whole new depth to the game. Sure just playing the game normally is good and fun, but so is being able to do things that at first seemed impossible.

Oh, and the Ice Climbers are badasses. Especially in a competent human's hands

[atmuh]

Items are the best part of the game. I hate playing people that go by "official" crap rules. Items on normal, all stages on random, and just PLAY THE GAME.

[RocketSniper]

Items are the best part of the game. I hate playing people that go by "official" crap rules. Items on normal, all stages on random, and just PLAY THE GAME.

No pokefloats or Big Blue though.

[ILLiterate]

Wish I'd learned my melee techniques from this guy, lol. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSNOIUNCzeI)OS|-|7 SUM1 T3|_|_ T3|-| PR35!|)3N7 !'|\/| GU|\||\|4 P\/\/N7 N0\/\/ P|-|334!1!1!!!1!

[Zup]

Items are the best part of the game. I hate playing people that go by "official" crap rules. Items on normal, all stages on random, and just PLAY THE GAME.

No pokefloats or Big Blue though.

Why not? I've had some of the best times while jumping crazily between racecars or floats. Smash is a whole lot more fun when you play the entire game.

[Broken]

Who says you can't have fun without items? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrxVXHXHVcc)

This is quite a bit funnier if you know who is being impersonated.

[atmuh]

Items are the best part of the game. I hate playing people that go by "official" crap rules. Items on normal, all stages on random, and just PLAY THE GAME.

No pokefloats or Big Blue though.

Why not? I've had some of the best times while jumping crazily between racecars or floats. Smash is a whole lot more fun when you play the entire game.
Big Blue is the only way I beat people that are really awesome at it. I play as Mario always and whenever I'm there I resort to running and throwing only.

[Red Shadow]

Fuck wavedashing and everything else too. My friends and I play it for fun.
Oh crap, GZC, why are we playing this game? We aren't having fun!

But seriously, you play casually, we play competitively. We both have fun. Get over it.
I wasn't saying that there's no way anyone could play competitively and not have fun.

That is kind of ridiculous.

I just can't take a game serious enough to play it in such a manner, and wouldnt have fun trying.

[JoeFu]

Giant Melee+Bunny hats+super mushrooms+pokeball=awesome fun.

Also, Pokefloats on tiny melee with poison mushrooms.

[TheCatPhysician]

Items are the best part of the game. I hate playing people that go by "official" crap rules. Items on normal, all stages on random, and just PLAY THE GAME.

Ok, let me just say this so we don't get anymore retarded posts:

In the beginning, there was Smash Bros. Everybody played it with items and everything and had fun. But some people took the game more serious than others and actually got competitive. Maybe it was because they liked the game more, maybe it was because they had more free time. But as they got more and more competitive, they found it annoying to have random factors in the game like items. It kind of sucks in a big tournament match when two people who have practiced a lot play against each other and are having a close match, and at the end it is determined by who got more lucky with the items, or an explosive crate dropping on someone's head.

Ask someone who plays Street Fighter or Guilty Gear competitively if they would like their game better if items that could turn the match around appeared randomly. Forget about it. Ask them if they want any luck factor at all. When you play a game competitively and practice a lot, you want your matches to be determined by skill alone.


In short, yes, items are a part of the game.

So is turning them off.

[KWarp]

Items are the best part of the game. I hate playing people that go by "official" crap rules. Items on normal, all stages on random, and just PLAY THE GAME.
Thank you. :)

[JoeFu]

Items are the best part of the game. I hate playing people that go by "official" crap rules. Items on normal, all stages on random, and just PLAY THE GAME.
Thank you. :)


I would agree, except instead of normal, put it on very high. I love the items, but I'm alright without the items. I guess I could play both ways, but I enjoy using different people and just playing for fun. Like my friend likes to play really seriously, and I really don't care. He uses Fox and I use Ganon. When we play I win like maybe 2 out of 5 or something with Ganon. When I want to play "seriously" I use Marth, and I'll win like 90 percent of the time, but that's just no fun. Thats why items are great. You have to adjust to the items instead of just fighting.

[CE]

I do not approve of playing SSBM without items. I do not approve of wavedashing and other fancy tricks and glitches.

But seriously, Melee is one of the few fighters that I think should never be played as competitive. To diminish a game with such a casual and light facade to a series of abusive glitches and cracking the game physics kinda goes against it's purpose. But I guess you can play it however you want. I just find those tiers ridiculous.

[TheCatPhysician]

Wavedashing is just airdodging into the ground. There's no way the game testers who spent hours upon hours testing out the game's physics couldn't have run into that. L-cancelling was completely intentional, it was in SSB64, and they even taught you how to do it on their website back in the day. Also, for L-cancelling, they would need to specifically code it so that the lag animation frames are chopped in half, because that's what happens. Somewhere in the code they put "if the character is doing an aerial attack, and hits the ground so many frames after pressing L, 50% of the lag animation's frames are gone."

The developers designed it to be a party game and also a true fighting game, for those who look for it. It's perfectly playable at both levels. There's no way they were just designing a party game with no intention of putting depth in, and then when people analyzed every aspect of the game it coincidentially turned into one of he most depthful fighters ever.

Like I said, turning off items is clearly a part of the game, and they put it in for a reason. You can play casual, or comptitive.

Also, the tiers are supposed to give you an idea of how well characters do in tournaments, it's based on how well characters do in today's tournaments. It should mean nothing to casual players.

[Jam Stunna]

Ice Climbers
I'm curious as to whether or not I'm the only person here who is good with the ice climbers specifically after forcefully eliminating the cpu controlled one.

I can play with one Ice Climber if I have to, but I find that I'm most effective when I have both of them. The double smash attack and grab combos aren't possible with just one.

Also, Ice Climbers vid featuring Chu Dat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtFaTsn5apQ&mode=related&search=

As for the tier list, I think it's pretty accurate. The tiers aren't necessarily based on which character is the "best", but also on potential, who wins at tourneys, learning curve, etc. There are TONS of Fox and Falco players at tourneys, so it only makes sense for Fox and Falco to be at the top of the tier list. Conversely, I've never seen a Mewtwo player at a tourney, so he's at the bottom. Tiers don't really mean anything, because a good Roy will always beat a bad Fox. They exist to give you an idea about the characters.

And regarding this whole "casual vs. competitive" debate...I go to tournaments as frequently as possible. The items are off, stages are banned and there's a time limit. I play and I have a great time. When I'm playing with my friends, we turn items on, go to Hyrule Temple and play 12-minute matches (wall-tech FTW!). I play and I have a great time. Casual play and competitive play are not mutually exclusive. I'm not sure why so many people have taken this either/or attitude.

[atmuh]

I don't think that turning items off makes the game more "competitive." It just makes the game more spontaneous and fun. I've played in local tournaments (and won a few, without items), but I mainly would play because it's just fun to play. Items do give me a slight edge, though, since I always play as Mario and can use his cape a lot more. But I hope when Brawl comes out people that play online aren't so serious about the game.

[JoeFu]

The ssbm "hardcore" players sound like a bunch of elitist assholes.

[Cerrax]

The ssbm "hardcore" players are a bunch of elitist assholes.

fixed.


Anyway, like others have said, playing competitively and casually are both fun. Especially since competitive play makes you better at the game and allows new opportunities for casual play. Try this:

SUPER SMASH BASEBALL
Stage: Hyrule Temple
Damage Ratio: 0.8
Stock- Infinite
No Time Limit
Items: Bob-omb only on Very High (for humor's sake the Home Bat can be added but its not part of the game)

Okay, the basic gameplay is this: Two teams (for our sake we'll use red and blue) face off in alternating innings on hyrule temple.There are four players on screen. Two red, two blue. In this instance, blue is pitching, red is batting.

Blue pitcher stand on the raised platform on the left side of hyrule temple (the thing just before the little pavillion). Batter stands on the stair case to the right. Two outfeilders (one red, one blue) stand on the opposite side. {itcher throws a Bob-omb at the batter. Batter takes the Bob-omb head on (you can choose to hit it or not, but you cannot catch it, that results in a strike) and the blast sends him flying.
At this point, batter has become the ball. The blue outfeilder will attempt to KO the batter for an out. The red outfeilder must not let that happen. The pitcher may give chase, but he'll be needed later.
Once the batter has regained control (aka he can move again), he must make a dash down the cave, into the pit and up through the shaft back to where he batted from (home base). During this time, the red outfeilder must defend the batter. The pitcher obviously, must guard home base.
There are three bases,the far right side of the stage, the entrance to the cave, and the stone walkway below the temple. If the batter is KO'ed before reaching home, you must remember which base he touched because when he bats again, he cannot be touched (but can be followed) to that base.
If the batter reaches home a point is scored. Once the batter has either scored or been KOed, all players KO (just jump off the edge) and get in position for the next bat. Then the two reds switch roles for the next bat. This continues until three outs. When the inning is over, obviously now blue is batting, and red is pitching.

GOT IT?

http://www.cerrax.com/smashbaseball.jpg

Terms
Ball- when the pitcher throws the bob-omb in any direction except straight at the batter OR when the pitcher or outfeilders move before the bob-omb explodes. Three balls is an automatic walk to first base.

Strike- when the batter catches the bob-omb OR when the batter dodges the bob-omb. Two strikes is an out.

Out- when the batter is KOed.

Inning-one inning has two halves. each half, one team bats while the other pitches.

Game-one game is nine innings.

Points-are scored when the batter LANDS on home base ON HIS FEET. Technicality is key here. A fallen batter on home does not count and the play is still going. All bases must be touched by a batters feet. Getting thrown past second base does not mean you touched it.

Bob-ombs- the essential part of the game. Used for the pitch as well as their many uses in exterminating a batter >:P

[Hector]

They have good reason to be elitist considering how much better they are at the game. And most of the tactics used in tournament play are not glitch exploits, instead just amazing strings of normal attacks. As for tiers, level restrictions and item restrictions, tournaments need some sort of rules to ensure a level playing field. Items often bring too much randomness to the game (bombs appearing in the path of one's attack) while some levels can create impasse situations.

[JoeFu]

The ssbm "hardcore" players are a bunch of elitist assholes.

fixed.


Anyway, like others have said, playing competitively and casually are both fun. Especially since competitive play makes you better at the game and allows new opportunities for casual play. Try this:

SUPER SMASH BASEBALL
Stage: Hyrule Temple
Damage Ratio: 0.8
Stock- Infinite
No Time Limit
Items: Bob-omb only on Very High (for humor's sake the Home Bat can be added but its not part of the game)

Okay, the basic gameplay is this: Two teams (for our sake we'll use red and blue) face off in alternating innings on hyrule temple.There are four players on screen. Two red, two blue. In this instance, blue is pitching, red is batting.

Blue pitcher stand on the raised platform on the left side of hyrule temple (the thing just before the little pavillion). Batter stands on the stair case to the right. Two outfeilders (one red, one blue) stand on the opposite side. {itcher throws a Bob-omb at the batter. Batter takes the Bob-omb head on (you can choose to hit it or not, but you cannot catch it, that results in a strike) and the blast sends him flying.
At this point, batter has become the ball. The blue outfeilder will attempt to KO the batter for an out. The red outfeilder must not let that happen. The pitcher may give chase, but he'll be needed later.
Once the batter has regained control (aka he can move again), he must make a dash down the cave, into the pit and up through the shaft back to where he batted from (home base). During this time, the red outfeilder must defend the batter. The pitcher obviously, must guard home base.
There are three bases,the far right side of the stage, the entrance to the cave, and the stone walkway below the temple. If the batter is KO'ed before reaching home, you must remember which base he touched because when he bats again, he cannot be touched (but can be followed) to that base.
If the batter reaches home a point is scored. Once the batter has either scored or been KOed, all players KO (just jump off the edge) and get in position for the next bat. Then the two reds switch roles for the next bat. This continues until three outs. When the inning is over, obviously now blue is batting, and red is pitching.

GOT IT?


Haha, I've never done anything like that before, but it sounds like a blast.

Have you guys ever just played giant melee with bunny hats on big blue? With the fast runner, you can actually run for a while on that level with the cars. So when I'm bored with my friend, we just play around with that.

[CE]

The ssbm "hardcore" players are a bunch of elitist assholes.

fixed.


Anyway, like others have said, playing competitively and casually are both fun. Especially since competitive play makes you better at the game and allows new opportunities for casual play. Try this:

SUPER SMASH BASEBALL
Stage: Hyrule Temple
Damage Ratio: 0.8
Stock- Infinite
No Time Limit
Items: Bob-omb only on Very High (for humor's sake the Home Bat can be added but its not part of the game)

Okay, the basic gameplay is this: Two teams (for our sake we'll use red and blue) face off in alternating innings on hyrule temple.There are four players on screen. Two red, two blue. In this instance, blue is pitching, red is batting.

Blue pitcher stand on the raised platform on the left side of hyrule temple (the thing just before the little pavillion). Batter stands on the stair case to the right. Two outfeilders (one red, one blue) stand on the opposite side. {itcher throws a Bob-omb at the batter. Batter takes the Bob-omb head on (you can choose to hit it or not, but you cannot catch it, that results in a strike) and the blast sends him flying.
At this point, batter has become the ball. The blue outfeilder will attempt to KO the batter for an out. The red outfeilder must not let that happen. The pitcher may give chase, but he'll be needed later.
Once the batter has regained control (aka he can move again), he must make a dash down the cave, into the pit and up through the shaft back to where he batted from (home base). During this time, the red outfeilder must defend the batter. The pitcher obviously, must guard home base.
There are three bases,the far right side of the stage, the entrance to the cave, and the stone walkway below the temple. If the batter is KO'ed before reaching home, you must remember which base he touched because when he bats again, he cannot be touched (but can be followed) to that base.
If the batter reaches home a point is scored. Once the batter has either scored or been KOed, all players KO (just jump off the edge) and get in position for the next bat. Then the two reds switch roles for the next bat. This continues until three outs. When the inning is over, obviously now blue is batting, and red is pitching.

GOT IT?

Haha awesome, someone else got gems like these?

[TheCatPhysician]

The ssbm "hardcore" players are a bunch of elitist assholes.

fixed.


Anyway, like others have said, playing competitively and casually are both fun. Especially since competitive play makes you better at the game and allows new opportunities for casual play. Try this:



Wow. I got called an elitist? I was told that my way of playing the game was anal, and in turn, I said that both ways of playing the game are fun. The reason I'm in here is because I think it's stupid that casual and competitive players can't just respect each other.

I've been saying this whole time that Melee works just fine at BOTH levels, and it was designed to be playable at both. So..

There will be people who play at one level, and people who play at the other. That's a GOOD thing. Learn to respect each other, that's all I'm saying.

How in the hell is that elitist. I'm the one getting my style of play called anal. I am completely fine with people who only play casually, as I've said before. As I said to Red Shadow, we both have fun.


I just made a good point describing that the developers designed it to be playable at a competitive level as well as casual, and my post was ignored. Instead, you just said "yeah, well you're an elitist."

[Red Shadow]

They have good reason to be elitist considering how much better they are at the game.
This is hilarious.

[CE]

No one called you an eliteist.

[Cerrax]

I've updated the baseball game with a diagram and a list of terms.

[TheCatPhysician]

No one called you an eliteist.

They are still saying that hardcore players are elitists. The hardcore players here are trying to say that they are ok with both ways of playing, and that they respect casual players. The casual players here are saying that playing hardcore is playing anally, and that the hardcore players are elitist. Maybe I'm missing something here?

#3907 and Red Shadow, I play SSBM competitively.I know all the advanced techniques and everything. Am I an elitist? Do you think it is stupid to play the game competitively? How exactly are hardcore SSBM players elitist? Are you just saying that because they play hardcore? Remember, I'm a hardcore player, and all I've been saying is that I respect casual players and the way the play the game. I just wish I would get respect back, instead of being called anal.

[CE]

No one called you an eliteist.

They are still saying that hardcore players are elitists. The hardcore players here are trying to say that they are ok with both ways of playing, and that they respect casual players. The casual players here are saying that playing hardcore is playing anally, and that the hardcore players are elitist. Maybe I'm missing something here?

#3907 and Red Shadow, I play SSBM competitively.I know all the advanced techniques and everything. Am I an elitist? Do you think it is stupid to play the game competitively? How exactly are hardcore SSBM players elitist? Are you just saying that because they play hardcore? Remember, I'm a hardcore player, and all I've been saying is that I respect casual players and the way the play the game. I just wish I would get respect back, instead of being called anal.

Hardcore = Disregarding casual play.
ergo
Hardcore = Eliteists.

You don't disregard casual play.
so
You = Not Eliteist.

[JoeFu]

Hahaha, I didn't call you anything, just stirring up the pot :D

Just messing with you, but some of the comments, just... I dunno, whatever. No use in arguing. I didn't call you out anyways, I said they "sounded" like they were, didn't say specifically who, but I've seen many a "hardcore" players just disregard the items and stages and things that were put into the game. Still I do admit that it is pretty fun when playing competitively, but it's just not as fun when like you have all items turned on, but thats just personal preference.

[Cerrax]

No one called you an eliteist.

They are still saying that hardcore players are elitists. The hardcore players here are trying to say that they are ok with both ways of playing, and that they respect casual players. The casual players here are saying that playing hardcore is playing anally, and that the hardcore players are elitist. Maybe I'm missing something here?

#3907 and Red Shadow, I play SSBM competitively.I know all the advanced techniques and everything. Am I an elitist? Do you think it is stupid to play the game competitively? How exactly are hardcore SSBM players elitist? Are you just saying that because they play hardcore? Remember, I'm a hardcore player, and all I've been saying is that I respect casual players and the way the play the game. I just wish I would get respect back, instead of being called anal.

Well the problem is that most professional players have a "holier than thou" attitude coupled with a severe lack of self-esteem, so they take pride in the fact that they can play the game, and be awarded for doing so. Casual play ruins all of the variables that were locked firmly in place by tournament rules. So they lose their security and start calling out "You don't know this game like me cuz I wavedash N00B!" because they feel threatened that they may not seem superior anymore.

Basically elitists do this stuff, and it pisses off a alot of people:

Claim the tiers are infallible and that Mewtwo will always lose to Falco
Constantly brag
Refuse to play with less-skilled players
Refuse to play with low tier characters
Refuse to play without tournament rules
Consider all people who even think about casual play as a weaker fighter

Basically they just make themselves seem better. And that's just disgusting. Its a GODDAMN GAME.

[Red Shadow]

Cerrax hits the nail on the head and as such I don't think I'll post in this thread anymore until this phase of conversation has finished.

Also, tcp, like ce said, youre not being a dick about it so you dont fit the elitist bill. You just enjoy playing by those rules.

Great how this was all started by me saying "fuck wavedashing."

[JoeFu]

I just like using everybody, like it's fun and challenging. Most of the time though, if I want to win, I'll use Marth. Ganon is a guy I play around with, just because he's so freaking strong.

I also love using Jigglypuff just to annoy people.

[TheCatPhysician]

Well, I still don't agree that most professional players are what Cerrax described. I met a lot of the top professionals when I went to OC2, like Ken, Isai, members from Skypal and everything, and I havn't seen anyone like that.

Claim the tiers are infallible and that Mewtwo will always lose to Falco Do you still not know what the tiers are? They are only there to give you an idea of how well characters do currently in high-level tournaments. That's why it is constantly updated. Before Ken started going to tournaments, nobody knew Marth could be so good, and he was low on the tier list. Then Ken introduced things like short-hop-double-forward aerial and won the tournament. After that they were happy to move Marth up on the tier list. If someone figures out new stuff with Mewtwo and wins tournaments, they will be happy to move him up on the tier list. Whoever told you that the tiers are infallible clearly doesn't know what the tiers are.
Constantly brag Of course out of all the people who play competitively, there are bound to be a few people who brag, but out of all the poeple I played at OC2 and when I went to a Skypal Smashfest, nobody who was a lot better than me bragged when they won. I got four stocked craploads of times, and there was no trash talking or anything. They know that I know it is just a learning exeperience on my part, and we're both ok with the fact that one of us is better.
Refuse to play with less-skilled players Go to a tournament or smashfest in your area and see if they won't let you play. I haven't heard of this happening, please give me an example. Of course, if you will only play with items and crazy stages, they won't want to play unless they are just messing around.
Refuse to play with low tier charactersThat is simply not true. Of course most professionals will only use high tier characters in tournaments, when they are playing to win, but almost every professional has at least one low tier character. Look at Azen and Isai. But even still, there are quite a few professionals who use low tier characters in big tournaments, like The Germ, Taj, Ness players, Bowser players, etc.
Refuse to play without tournament rules I dunno if you maybe went to a Smashfest to find this out or something, but if that is the case, of course they aren't going to want to play without tournament rules because this is how they practice. Although I agree, most of us don't play with items and such unless we're really just messing around. That's just our personal preferance, the same way you prefer to have items on.
Consider all people who even think about casual play as a weaker fighter I don't know where you are getting this from. I've never heard anyone say that, and I go to Smashboards pretty much every day. Maybe there are a few people who would say that, but I highly doubt that the majority of professional smashers would say that.

[Silent Mike]

Can we post match videos in this thread?

1233 (Gannondorf) vs. KC (C.Falcon) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCLBkBhrTJk)

I don't know well they rank up there with the top Gannon and CF players, and it takes place in Mute City, but fuck it, it's still a fun match.

[Global-Trance]

Can we post match videos in this thread?

1233 (Gannondorf) vs. KC (C.Falcon) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCLBkBhrTJk)

I don't know well they rank up there with the top Gannon and CF players, and it takes place in Mute City, but fuck it, it's still a fun match.

At first it started out pretty average and slow but it got a lot more fun to watch as it went on. They started to get their timing down... though sometimes they missed their L-Cancels when it mattered. Either way, it was a good match. I thought Ganondorf had it in the bag until Falcon started nailing those knees spot on.

:)

As for the question earlier about characters...

I main Falco (got that dashing short hop laser fast fall / pillaring combos / L-Cancelling timing down).

Other characters I play include Jigglypuff (probably my 2nd best), Ness (3rd), Ice Climbers (4th). People say I'm pretty good with all of them so far (When I meet new people I play everyone but Falco unless they beat me).

I'm currently trying to learn Captain Falcon and Marth right now. I don't know if I will buckle under and learn Sheik at some point.. :roll:

[Red Shadow]

howabout a turn of discussion. Who do you main as?

I main as Falco, but I also play as Samus, Fox, and Jigglypuff.
Ness, Game&Watch, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, Ice Climbers.

In that order.

Ness gets 90% of the playtime.

Also I've been able to beat my friends on a near consistent basis with every single character BUT bowser. Can't stand him.

[CE]

I play with every character. I guess my focus usually goes to Mario, Samus, Kirby and Peach. Not in any particular order, but I'm into nimble characters. Ganondorf and Link come at a close second.

[linkspast]

DK FTW... i like his strength but dosent lose much in the way of speed or jumping, unlike ganondorf
And Falco if i am feeling like they may be able to put up a fight...

[Red Shadow]

howabout a turn of discussion. Who do you main as?

I main as Falco, but I also play as Samus, Fox, and Jigglypuff.
Ness, Game&Watch, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, Ice Climbers.

In that order.

Ness gets 90% of the playtime.

Also I've been able to beat my friends on a near consistent basis with every single character BUT bowser. Can't stand him.Ness is a really good character, but his recovery is SO easily interrupted. tcp over there plays that dude, and it's pretty fun.
Heh, the reason I even bother playing any other character most of the time is when my friends force me to, as they get tired of me winning within two minutes.

They seem to think that if I wanted to I could do really well in tournaments too.

[ILLiterate]

My mains are Cpt. Falcon (Pink/White) & Dr. Mario

But I also like to wave dash crazy with Luigi, makes me feel good :D

[Ferret]

My mains are in THIS ORDER: Peach, Samus and Ness.

As Taucer can attest, I will murder you with peach. But he still beats me with Doc...

[TheCatPhysician]

howabout a turn of discussion. Who do you main as?

I main as Falco, but I also play as Samus, Fox, and Jigglypuff.
Ness, Game&Watch, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, Ice Climbers.

In that order.

Ness gets 90% of the playtime.

Also I've been able to beat my friends on a near consistent basis with every single character BUT bowser. Can't stand him.Ness is a really good character, but his recovery is SO easily interrupted. tcp over there plays that dude, and it's pretty fun.
Heh, the reason I even bother playing any other character most of the time is when my friends force me to, as they get tired of me winning within two minutes.

They seem to think that if I wanted to I could do really well in tournaments too.

Ness, eh? Have you heard of the Yoyo Glitch? It takes a little practice/experimenting to get it down, so you might consider it anal, but it's totally worth it to see the look on people's faces who havn't seen it before.

Heh, with the time you've spent telling me how anal advanced techniques are and everything about casual and competitive play in this thread, you could have learned some cool stuff, like wavedashing and shfflc'ing. It really just takes a couple minutes to learn how to do. After that, you just have to do them in your matches for a while until you find their uses.

[Red Shadow]

I wouldn't mind knowing about and messing around with glitches or advanced techniques, just incorporating them into the way I play doesn't interest me.

So what's this glitch then?

[maniater]

My mains are.
Fox Link Mario Ness
Enemys Ness
Glitches in the uhhhhh 2nd stage for link the one thats really small the turtle part?? yah you can fall in that crack easy and die fast.

[TheCatPhysician]

Alright, this is how you do the glitch: Do an up smash on someone, distancing yourself so that the yoyo hits them. If you upsmash and it hits them immediately and you spaced it right so it hits at the tip, they will go flying away. It's easiest to do if you run into the up smash. Now after they have been hit, you keep charging the upsmash for just a split second. This is the part that takes experimenting, because you just have to know how long to hold it. If you charge it for too long it won't work, but it does need some charge. Now what you have done is you've set an invisible hitbox on the ground that stays there until you die, or it gets tripped. The most basic way to trip the hitbox is if your opponent simply walks over the hitbox. No matter where you are on the stage, they will take a little hit and sometimes fall over when the walk over the hitbox. I did this to my friend a few times and he didn't say anything, so I said "Is your character having trouble walking? I don't know, it looks like he keeps tripping when he tries to walk." Haha, he got so mad. But there are some way more interesting ways to trip the hitbox. For one thing, as long as your opponent is between you and the hitbox, any attack you do will hit them. This means you can grab from across the stage! That's probably the best way to suprise someone. Now there are some more complicated ways to trip the hitbox, they are called jackets that you equip. The most well known is the Thunder jacket. After you set the hitbox, make sure you're opponent is not between you and the hitbox, jump into the air and do an up B, blasting yourself straight down into the ground so that there's an explosion when you hit. Now you have equipped the thunder jacket. What this means is the next time you touch your opponent, even if you're not doing a move and no matter where they are on the stage, it will have the effect of you hittting them as a human missile from the up B. The other jackets you can equip are up air and down air jackets, but those require an advanced technique called double jump cancelling, so I won't get into that.

In a real match, it's really hard to do the thunder jacket, so grabbing people from across the stage is probably the best thing to do. It's not too hard, and it has a really funny effect. They just dissapear and reappear in your hands.

[Cerrax]

I main with Link.
I don't really have a second because I'm pretty much the same skill level with every character, but I do have a preference for the swordsmen.
So I guess my mains are:
Link
Marth
Roy
Young Link

Glitches? Well I'm an old-school smasher, so no wavedashing for me. I don't really use the mid-air dodge/sidestep very much at all. I Mainly use the quick-down attack (which works great when it hits :/ ) I prefer 64 smash to melee but I play both pretty well.

[[\(-_-)/]]

Mains: Mario, Young Link

I play best as Mario, but I can have fun with YL.

[Red Shadow]

I've screwed around with that glitch a bit.

I thought you meant there was a newer one or something. Heh.

[atmuh]

Mains: Mario, Young Link

I play best as Mario, but I can have fun with YL.
Woah I've never played against someone who's main was Mario, as he is mine. You can have lots of fun as Mario spinning people around with the cape and whatnot.

[Broken]

My main character is Marth, (who I no longer feel bad about using b/c he's no longer top teir! Yeah disjointed hitboxes!) but I also am competent with Fox/Falco. I love to play casually with Samus, Luigi, Peach, C.F, and Mewtwo.

I'm interested in trying out that Ness glitch you mentioned, TheCatPhysician. Sounds like fun. Anyone any good at Samus' super wavedash? I've only accomplished it twice (not that I try it that often)

[bouncerboy15]

Mains: Mario, Young Link

I play best as Mario, but I can have fun with YL.
Woah I've never played against someone who's main was Mario, as he is mine. You can have lots of fun as Mario spinning people around with the cape and whatnot.
I love to use Mario. His cape is fun to mess around.

[Dexie]

I main with Young Link, Ice Climbers, and Kirby.

Still hoping DeDeDe gets announced for Brawl. :(

[JoeFu]

I main with Young Link, Ice Climbers, and Kirby.

Still hoping DeDeDe gets announced for Brawl. :(


I would love it if DeDeDe makes it in. I hope waddle dee makes an appearance as an enemy that pops out, kinda like the redeads.

[Murmeli Walan]

I think it's a given that Dedede will be in. smashbrawl.com (part of the Smash Boards) comments:

King Dedede - He appears the most on the list, with a total of 5 definite nods out of all the entires shared with the public. Sakurai did make a comment when he was asked about Meta Knight that he was afraid he may never see Kirby or his other creations ever again since he left Nintendo, and now that he was back, he was going to relish it. He has always loved Meta Knight, Kirby, and King Dedede as a colorful trio of characters. He’s said it many times in the past. He’s also said that the reason Kirby games were underrepped in the past two Smashes was because he didn’t want to overinclude himself, and screw other guys out of their own characters appearing. But now that this may be his final game, he stopped caring XD And, judging by his eagerness to read King Dedede requests, we can tell that’s true!

[Global-Trance]

Hey guys, I was wondering how to go about the easiest way to record Smash onto video to upload. I was thinking we could share videos of our gameplay and maybe learn tips/tricks/techniques from each other...

[JoeFu]

Hey guys, I was wondering how to go about the easiest way to record Smash onto video to upload. I was thinking we could share videos of our gameplay and maybe learn tips/tricks/techniques from each other...


That's a wonderful idea. I guess playing on your monitor would be the easiest way to do it. And using some recording thingy.

[Global-Trance]

Hey guys, I was wondering how to go about the easiest way to record Smash onto video to upload. I was thinking we could share videos of our gameplay and maybe learn tips/tricks/techniques from each other...


That's a wonderful idea. I guess playing on your monitor would be the easiest way to do it. And using some recording thingy.

Well not all of us can play using our computer monitors... :( Any other suggestions?

[JoeFu]

Hey guys, I was wondering how to go about the easiest way to record Smash onto video to upload. I was thinking we could share videos of our gameplay and maybe learn tips/tricks/techniques from each other...


That's a wonderful idea. I guess playing on your monitor would be the easiest way to do it. And using some recording thingy.

Well not all of us can play using our computer monitors... :( Any other suggestions?



Webcam?

I can't play off my monitor either.

[Global-Trance]

Well my roommate informed me that we have a DVD recorder out in the living room hooked up to the TV and all. I could record some video of my playing style with my characters... but I don't know how fun it would be for you guys to watch.

[JoeFu]

Well my roommate informed me that we have a DVD recorder out in the living room hooked up to the TV and all. I could record some video of my playing style with my characters... but I don't know how fun it would be for you guys to watch.

Just do it, I'd watch it. I watch stuff when I'm bored, and I'm bored most of the time.

[Global-Trance]

I guess I'll buy some DVD-RWs tomorrow when we go watch Snakes on a Plane. :)

[Arek the Absolute]

smash tourny in aug in san jose
seems to have a good line up

[Baleshadow]

Once I get back to school (tomorrow, yes!) I am forcing my buddies to play Melee with me. I want to try out some of these tricks.

Oh, and I main as Fox and Roy, occasionally as Marth, and rarely as Captain Falcon.

[ILLiterate]

smash tourny in aug in san jose
seems to have a good line upYou best be there October 28th for "NTC2 TEH BIG ONE"

We will roll out

[Cerrax]

Hey guys, I was wondering how to go about the easiest way to record Smash onto video to upload. I was thinking we could share videos of our gameplay and maybe learn tips/tricks/techniques from each other...

I have an emulator with the original (N64) Smash Bros and then I use SnapX Pro to capture the footage into a video format. But I don't have Melee.

[CE]

I just played a 60:00 mins match against a friend and 2 lvl 9 pcs. All items on max, Green Greens and normal everything. It was awesome. I won!

[defender!!]

i use every character. i love using bowser though.

link's got the cheap up+b edgeguard move :(

i like N64 smash a lot better, so i'm not a fan of the wavedashing or anything. just roll or take the hit. i'd enter more tournaments if it wasn't all about WD'ing.

[Murmeli Walan]

Only idiots think it's all about wavedashing.

I don't even know how to wavedash, considering I've seen videos and read FAQs on it.

So, I checked into my dorm room this morning, and after BSing with the RA for a couple minutes, I found out that he's a Smasher. In fact, he has a challenge going that if anyone on the first floor can beat him in a match, then he'll buy pizza for everyone on the floor. Knowing how good my best friend/roommate is, we'll be getting pizza pretty often. :wink:

[TheCatPhysician]

Well the problem is that most professional players have a "holier than thou" attitude coupled with a severe lack of self-esteem, so they take pride in the fact that they can play the game, and be awarded for doing so. Casual play ruins all of the variables that were locked firmly in place by tournament rules. So they lose their security and start calling out "You don't know this game like me cuz I wavedash N00B!" because they feel threatened that they may not seem superior anymore.

Basically elitists do this stuff, and it pisses off a alot of people:

Claim the tiers are infallible and that Mewtwo will always lose to Falco
Constantly brag
Refuse to play with less-skilled players
Refuse to play with low tier characters
Refuse to play without tournament rules
Consider all people who even think about casual play as a weaker fighter

Basically they just make themselves seem better. And that's just disgusting. Its a GODDAMN GAME.

Cerrax and Red Shadow, I'm wondering if you still agree with this, and if you have read my reply to this post. I just got back from a huge tournament called OC2 a little while ago and hung out with a lot of professional Smashers for a week. They were all really nice and fun people to be around, and none of them were what you described. Please read my previous reply to this post if you havn't already.

If you have never been to a tournament before, maybe you should go to one and meet some of the professionals before you put the majority of them under these labels.

Here is what I posted earlier, in case you missed it:

Claim the tiers are infallible and that Mewtwo will always lose to Falco Do you still not know what the tiers are? They are only there to give you an idea of how well characters do currently in high-level tournaments. That's why it is constantly updated. Before Ken started going to tournaments, nobody knew Marth could be so good, and he was low on the tier list. Then Ken introduced things like short-hop-double-forward aerial and won the tournament. After that they were happy to move Marth up on the tier list. If someone figures out new stuff with Mewtwo and wins tournaments, they will be happy to move him up on the tier list. Whoever told you that the tiers are infallible clearly doesn't know what the tiers are.
Constantly brag Of course out of all the people who play competitively, there are bound to be a few people who brag, but out of all the poeple I played at OC2 and when I went to a Skypal Smashfest, nobody who was a lot better than me bragged when they won. I got four stocked craploads of times, and there was no trash talking or anything. They know that I know it is just a learning exeperience on my part, and we're both ok with the fact that one of us is better.
Refuse to play with less-skilled players Go to a tournament or smashfest in your area and see if they won't let you play. I haven't heard of this happening, please give me an example. Of course, if you will only play with items and crazy stages, they won't want to play unless they are just messing around.
Refuse to play with low tier charactersThat is simply not true. Of course most professionals will only use high tier characters in tournaments, when they are playing to win, but almost every professional has at least one low tier character. Look at Azen and Isai. But even still, there are quite a few professionals who use low tier characters in big tournaments, like The Germ, Taj, Ness players, Bowser players, etc.
Refuse to play without tournament rules I dunno if you maybe went to a Smashfest to find this out or something, but if that is the case, of course they aren't going to want to play without tournament rules because this is how they practice. Although I agree, most of us don't play with items and such unless we're really just messing around. That's just our personal preferance, the same way you prefer to have items on.
Consider all people who even think about casual play as a weaker fighter I don't know where you are getting this from. I've never heard anyone say that, and I go to Smashboards pretty much every day. Maybe there are a few people who would say that, but I highly doubt that the majority of professional smashers would say that.

[Murmeli Walan]

Only idiots think it's all about wavedashing.

I don't even know how to wavedash, considering I've seen videos and read FAQs on it.
It's pretty simple. When you airdodge, you can move while you're doing it in any direction such as up, down, left, right, down-left, etc.

All you do is jump, and then airdodge diagonally into the ground. If you were close enough to the ground, then you slide a little.

Now the trick is to make the timing between the jump and then airdodge really short. If you do it right, you don't even see the jump. The time between the two depends on the character you're playing.

So, you're saying that I have to jump, then airdodge a split-second or so after the jump? I'll keep trying. I don't want to learn wavedashing because I think it's the only way to win or whatever. I just want to try some new techinques.

It kinda makes you wonder if wavedashing is a glitch, or if it was an intended tatic.

[Global-Trance]

Wavedashing itself wasn't intended as tactic. It was just overlooked as a part of the game's character physics.

I got some DVD-RWs so I can record a bit of how I play. Are we all still down with sharing videos of ourselves to learn from each other? Cuz I want to learn more about this magnificent fun game.

[Slimtoad]

Only idiots think it's all about wavedashing.

I don't even know how to wavedash, considering I've seen videos and read FAQs on it.
It's pretty simple. When you airdodge, you can move while you're doing it in any direction such as up, down, left, right, down-left, etc.

All you do is jump, and then airdodge diagonally into the ground. If you were close enough to the ground, then you slide a little.

Now the trick is to make the timing between the jump and then airdodge really short. If you do it right, you don't even see the jump. The time between the two depends on the character you're playing.

So, you're saying that I have to jump, then airdodge a split-second or so after the jump? I'll keep trying. I don't want to learn wavedashing because I think it's the only way to win or whatever. I just want to try some new techinques.

It kinda makes you wonder if wavedashing is a glitch, or if it was an intended tatic.

I'm pretty sure it's a required physics element of the game that the makers didn't expect people to find/use in battle. But I'm not sure.

[Power Surge]

Wavedashing itself wasn't intended as tactic. It was just overlooked as a part of the game's character physics.

I got some DVD-RWs so I can record a bit of how I play. Are we all still down with sharing videos of ourselves to learn from each other? Cuz I want to learn more about this magnificent fun game.
I'll share videos if I can somehow record them.
All you need is a TV tuner card for your PC. It costs about $50. With it, you can hook up your GCN to your PC and use the record option to record video. The picture and sound quality will depend on your video and sound cards, but it still gets the job done.

[Power Surge]

Wavedashing itself wasn't intended as tactic. It was just overlooked as a part of the game's character physics.

I got some DVD-RWs so I can record a bit of how I play. Are we all still down with sharing videos of ourselves to learn from each other? Cuz I want to learn more about this magnificent fun game.
I'll share videos if I can somehow record them.
All you need is a TV tuner card for your PC. It costs about $50. With it, you can hook up your GCN to your PC and use the record option to record video. The picture and sound quality will depend on your video and sound cards, but it still gets the job done.
We tried a TV tuner card before, it didn't work too well because of the split second of lag between what you input and what appears on the screen. (Things like the SWD and the double laser have a 1-2 frame window!)
I use an Ati TV Wonder Ve. Except for the picture quality, it works pretty good for me. I don't notice any lag at all, even during heated melee matches.

[Global-Trance]

This DVD recorder thing is working out fine... I got things converted to AVI in XviD but I have to edit out all the fluff... so expect some videos hopefully later today.

[JoeFu]

Yesterday my brothers and my friend decided to do the black hole glitch. That thing is pretty fun to play with.

[Global-Trance]

Yesterday my brothers and my friend decided to do the black hole glitch. That thing is pretty fun to play with.

Doesn't it get loud as all all because of the veggies?

[JoeFu]

Yesterday my brothers and my friend decided to do the black hole glitch. That thing is pretty fun to play with.

Doesn't it get loud as all all because of the veggies?


Yeah, I was scared my GC was gonna die or something.

[ncjason77]

Well my roommate informed me that we have a DVD recorder out in the living room hooked up to the TV and all. I could record some video of my playing style with my characters... but I don't know how fun it would be for you guys to watch.

Just do it, I'd watch it. I watch stuff when I'm bored, and I'm bored most of the time.


my buddy and i tried recording ourselves with a dvd recorder and it caused some lag for awhile. it made it a lot harder to play for awhile, but it eventually synched up after like 45 minutes or so. I made a sample music vid from the footage if you're interested.



creds to trenthian for the wip i used of hers btw...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ssnaw2XKk

we're not pros, but we've won a few tournaments in our area.

[ILLiterate]

ATTENTION CA SMASHERS

NCT2 is going down on October 28th at San Jose State University, going to be a big big tourney for Melee and if possible I'd love to have a meet up there. Me, my friend and Arek the Absolute are probably going

THREAD
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=70152

Anyone interested?

[Global-Trance]

ATTENTION CA SMASHERS

NCT2 is going down on October 28th at San Jose State University, going to be a big big tourney for Melee and if possible I'd love to have a meet up there. Me, my friend and Arek the Absolute are probably going

THREAD
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=70152

Anyone interested?

Shoot. I would love to go, but knowing my work, I might have to work that week. :(

[TheCatPhysician]

People from OCR going to California tournaments? You guys should have gone to OC2! It was a huge Melee tournament hosted by Ken. I came all the way from Alaska, so I probably won't be coming back down again until next summer.

[Global-Trance]

Me and my buds were going to go but we had summer school then. My friends that went got served though. S2 and Keys.

[TheCatPhysician]

Hey, at least S2 made it out of the first pool. I got eliminated in the first pool, but my john is that it had Mew2King in it. That, and I couldn't concentrate because I was all nervous. But at least I won two matches, against a Samus named Smooth Criminal. Ah, who am I kidding. The other guys would have won anyway. But I was really dissapointed with my matches with this Ice Climber guy, I counter picked him with Marth and still lost. I was too scared to try anything because I didn't want to lose another match, and I ended up using horrible tactics that I know don't work. It was a terrible feeling.

Haha, holy crap was S2 screwed in pool 2. Chu Dat, vwins, Cho, Kei and Rob Money? I would have crapped my pants. Those are all really good players. BTW, my friend Lunaris and I were housed with that vwins guy, I had a lot of fun playing him. I think I only won once against that guy the whole time, heh. And we played a lot of matches.

[Global-Trance]

S2 is weak lol.

[Global-Trance]

Well here's some of the practice games... Now that I think about it, I'm slower than usual in these videos than I normally play.

G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 1 (Items).wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_1_Items.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 2.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_2.wmv)
G-T(IC) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 3.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_IC_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_3.wmv)
G-T(JPuff) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 4.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_JPuff_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_4.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 5.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_5.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 6.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_6.wmv)

Edit: Fixed links. Those are all for now.

[TheLeviathan]

Well here's some of the practice games... Now that I think about it, I'm slower than usual in these videos than I normally play.

G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 1 (Items).wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_1_Items.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 2.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_2.wmv)
G-T(IC) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 3.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_IC_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_3.wmv)
G-T(JPuff) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 4.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_JPuff_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_4.wmv)

Edit: Fixed links. I might put up one more or something. I gotta see how much I recorded.

Hah, noob. I mean, wow so fast. But for real, awesome, now teach me!

[JoeFu]

Well here's some of the practice games... Now that I think about it, I'm slower than usual in these videos than I normally play.

G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 1 (Items).wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_1_Items.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 2.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_2.wmv)
G-T(IC) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 3.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_IC_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_3.wmv)
G-T(JPuff) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 4.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_JPuff_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_4.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 5.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_5.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 6.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_6.wmv)

Edit: Fixed links. Those are all for now.

Awesome. I just watched the one where you use the Ice Climbers. Pretty awesome. I don't really know how to use them, but grabing people with IC is pretty easy. I was messing around with them this weekend against my friend and he couldn't beat me when I was using them.

[Global-Trance]

Well here's some of the practice games... Now that I think about it, I'm slower than usual in these videos than I normally play.

G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 1 (Items).wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_1_Items.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 2.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_2.wmv)
G-T(IC) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 3.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_IC_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_3.wmv)
G-T(JPuff) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 4.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_JPuff_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_4.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 5.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_5.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 6.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_6.wmv)

Edit: Fixed links. Those are all for now.

Awesome. I just watched the one where you use the Ice Climbers. Pretty awesome. I don't really know how to use them, but grabing people with IC is pretty easy. I was messing around with them this weekend against my friend and he couldn't beat me when I was using them.

That's actually one of my weaker Ice Climbers moments... but thanks! :)

[Broken]

Well here's some of the practice games... Now that I think about it, I'm slower than usual in these videos than I normally play.

G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 1 (Items).wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_1_Items.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 2.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_2.wmv)
G-T(IC) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 3.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_IC_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_3.wmv)
G-T(JPuff) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 4.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_JPuff_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_4.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 5.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_5.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 6.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_6.wmv)

Edit: Fixed links. Those are all for now.

Only got a chance to look at your 1st and last vids. First of all, excellent quality on the visuals. I don't know what kind of camera/ video encoder you have, but it looks nice!

It was interesting watching your play style. Not as frantic as a lot of Falco's, but you seem to have most of the technical quirks down pat. I always love to see the down spike- reflector action going on. I do that a lot myself when I'm falco.

[Global-Trance]

Well here's some of the practice games... Now that I think about it, I'm slower than usual in these videos than I normally play.

G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 1 (Items).wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_1_Items.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 2.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_2.wmv)
G-T(IC) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 3.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_IC_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_3.wmv)
G-T(JPuff) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 4.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_JPuff_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_4.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 5.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_5.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 6.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_6.wmv)

Edit: Fixed links. Those are all for now.

Only got a chance to look at your 1st and last vids. First of all, excellent quality on the visuals. I don't know what kind of camera/ video encoder you have, but it looks nice!

It was interesting watching your play style. Not as frantic as a lot of Falco's, but you seem to have most of the technical quirks down pat. I always love to see the down spike- reflector action going on. I do that a lot myself when I'm falco.
Hey many thanks, Broken. If you were wondering how I recorded it, I used my roommate's DVD Recorder out in the living room. One of those VCR things but DVDs instead of VHS. I recorded it on DVDs, then ripped them to wmv in Windows Movie Maker since my Adobe Premiere crashes whenever I try to open it (*uninstalls it*).

As for Falco, I try to be a mix of fast, precise, and tricky. The whole precision thing makes me not be as frantic. My policy is that extra movements will just get me hit more often. :)

[Global-Trance]

Well here's some of the practice games... Now that I think about it, I'm slower than usual in these videos than I normally play.

G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 1 (Items).wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_1_Items.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 2.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_2.wmv)
G-T(IC) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 3.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_IC_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_3.wmv)
G-T(JPuff) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 4.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_JPuff_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_4.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 5.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_5.wmv)
G-T(Falco) vs. Q(Doc) - Practice 6.wmv (http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/G-T_Falco_vs_Q_Doc_-_Practice_6.wmv)

Edit: Fixed links. Those are all for now.

Only got a chance to look at your 1st and last vids. First of all, excellent quality on the visuals. I don't know what kind of camera/ video encoder you have, but it looks nice!

It was interesting watching your play style. Not as frantic as a lot of Falco's, but you seem to have most of the technical quirks down pat. I always love to see the down spike- reflector action going on. I do that a lot myself when I'm falco.
Hey many thanks, Broken. If you were wondering how I recorded it, I used my roommate's DVD Recorder out in the living room. One of those VCR things but DVDs instead of VHS. I recorded it on DVDs, then ripped them to wmv in Windows Movie Maker since my Adobe Premiere crashes whenever I try to open it (*uninstalls it*).

As for Falco, I try to be a mix of fast, precise, and tricky. The whole precision thing makes me not be as frantic. My policy is that extra movements will just get me hit more often. :)
Your Falco is pretty good, although you didn't edgehog or b-air as much as I would. Q isn't that good of a doc player though.

TCP and I recorded some matches today, I'll be able to upload them when I can borrow my friend's tv tuner. (Usually we just record onto VHS and then rip it from there.)

I didn't edgehog as much because I knew I didn't need to. :wink:
Q is okay at Doc, but he plays super defensively and tries to go for cheap kills if possible. He totally thinks he's good. :?

[ILLiterate]

Hit him in the face with an ice creame cone

[Red Shadow]

You know, G-T, I could actually see a lot of things Q could have done differently while fighting against you.

Damnit now I'm wondering how my playstyle would match up against a tournament player.

At least you have somebody who isn't afraid to actually play the game with you though. I haven't done so in so long because of this.

[Global-Trance]

See it's one thing to watch a video and say "I would do this if I fought you." but that's not always how it works. If he played differently, that is... if he actually was good, I would have turned up the heat and played differently.

Even when I turn up the heat though, I still don't even consider myself tournament calibur. :P

When I use the word tournament, I mean a serious one and not some make-shift college tournament or whatever.

[ILLiterate]

When I use the word tournament, I mean a serious one and not some make-shift college tournament or whatever.
NCT2, best be there, TEAM OCR (Me, You, Arek the Absolute)

[TheCatPhysician]

Man, I wish I could meet up with you guys. Maybe next summer.

Red Shadow, keep watching Smashboards for tournaments in your area, it will definetely be worth your time, they are very very fun. Well, as long as it's a good tournament.

Also, I know you said you don't want to reply to my posts on this subject anymore because you said Cerrax's post hit the nail on the head or whatever, but if you've never played against a professional, and I'm assuming that means you've never met one, how can you know that Cerrax's post, which says that the majority of professional Smashers are elitists, is true? Not only that, but you're saying it's so true that my reply doesn't matter. If you havn't read my last post regarding this subject, I suggest you do because it has my reply to Cerrax's post and everything. It's the third post on page 78.

[RocketSniper]

I wish I had some better people in the area. Really it's just me against my little brother, and although he occasionally beats me, I only have one playing style to fight against... That, and the only other person I can fight against won't because apparently my controller is better than his somehow. Yeah. Ouch.

[Jam Stunna]

Any East Coast OCRers going to Gauntlet (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=81626&page=13) in NY on the 16th? If so, let me know, maybe we can meet up and play some friendlies.

[linkspast]

I wish I had some better people in the area. Really it's just me against my little brother, and although he occasionally beats me, I only have one playing style to fight against... That, and the only other person I can fight against won't because apparently my controller is better than his somehow. Yeah. Ouch.
trade him controllers

[Zeklan]

I couldn't find the Wii thread...

Anyway we may get a release date soon:
http://wii.ign.com/articles/730/730116p1.html


Here's to hope.

[RocketSniper]

I wish I had some better people in the area. Really it's just me against my little brother, and although he occasionally beats me, I only have one playing style to fight against... That, and the only other person I can fight against won't because apparently my controller is better than his somehow. Yeah. Ouch.
trade him controllers
I tried, but he won't use mine because the deadzone is huge. From waay too much smash.

[The Mutericator]

I wish I had some better people in the area. Really it's just me against my little brother, and although he occasionally beats me, I only have one playing style to fight against... That, and the only other person I can fight against won't because apparently my controller is better than his somehow. Yeah. Ouch.
trade him controllers
I tried, but he won't use mine because the deadzone is huge. From waay too much smash.

Make him go buy a new one if he's gonna be a whiny bitch.

[Red Shadow]

I just spent an hour messing about just to see if I could do it, and discovered that I am too fast for wavedashing.

Explanation: I hit X and before my character even starts to jump I've already hit L. I am having difficulty slowing my reaction time down by just a fraction. :[

[Global-Trance]

I just spent an hour messing about just to see if I could do it, and discovered that I am too fast for wavedashing.

Explanation: I hit X and before my character even starts to jump I've already hit L. I am having difficulty slowing my reaction time down by just a fraction. :[
I thought you didn't even want to bother with that sort of play.

Edit: Try using R.

[JoeFu]

I tried learning wavedashing for fun. It's not that hard to get, but I don't know how to use it in battle yet.

[CE]

I me and another guy went to a friend's house today. He doesn't have a gamecube, but melee is his favorite game for it. When he gets his hand on a gamecube, he always plays SSBM. Well, my other friend was in charge of bringing the GC and he did along with 2 controllers, a memory card and Melee. Well, he left early and forgot the gamecube there. So my friend now gets to have a GC with melee and MP2 for a while :)

[Red Shadow]

I just spent an hour messing about just to see if I could do it, and discovered that I am too fast for wavedashing.

Explanation: I hit X and before my character even starts to jump I've already hit L. I am having difficulty slowing my reaction time down by just a fraction. :[
I thought you didn't even want to bother with that sort of play.

Edit: Try using R.
Hey, I said I was messing around just to see if I could.

And I did try R. Doesn't help. I've gotten to about a 33% efficiency rate with the L button though.

There's no way I'd ever try playing someone with this technique.

[Cerrax]

I just spent an hour messing about just to see if I could do it, and discovered that I am too fast for wavedashing.

Explanation: I hit X and before my character even starts to jump I've already hit L. I am having difficulty slowing my reaction time down by just a fraction. :[
I thought you didn't even want to bother with that sort of play.

Edit: Try using R.
Hey, I said I was messing around just to see if I could.

And I did try R. Doesn't help. I've gotten to about a 33% efficiency rate with the L button though.

There's no way I'd ever try playing someone with this technique.

Its all about timing and practice. After a while you will learn how long the delay should be between the X button and the L button (Its different for each character). It won't come to you suddenly, its like anything, it must be done over and over again until the correct way to do it becomes natural.

L-cancelling took me a long time to get down. Now its just a reflex. I don't even know I do it.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I'm working on shinedashing. I can occasionally pull off an effective two- or three-hit shinedash, but I'm not consistent enough to chase somebody all the way accross the screen with it a la zelgadis.

I'm working on it, though.

What's L-cancelling?

EDIT:
I just spent an hour messing about just to see if I could do it, and discovered that I am too fast for wavedashing.

Explanation: I hit X and before my character even starts to jump I've already hit L. I am having difficulty slowing my reaction time down by just a fraction. :[
I thought you didn't even want to bother with that sort of play.

Edit: Try using R.
Hey, I said I was messing around just to see if I could.

And I did try R. Doesn't help. I've gotten to about a 33% efficiency rate with the L button though.

There's no way I'd ever try playing someone with this technique.

I find it much easier with R. I normally shield and dodge with L, but I wavedash with R.

[Global-Trance]

I'm working on shinedashing. I can occasionally pull off an effective two- or three-hit shinedash, but I'm not consistent enough to chase somebody all the way accross the screen with it a la zelgadis.

I'm working on it, though.

What's L-cancelling?

EDIT:
I just spent an hour messing about just to see if I could do it, and discovered that I am too fast for wavedashing.

Explanation: I hit X and before my character even starts to jump I've already hit L. I am having difficulty slowing my reaction time down by just a fraction. :[
I thought you didn't even want to bother with that sort of play.

Edit: Try using R.
Hey, I said I was messing around just to see if I could.

And I did try R. Doesn't help. I've gotten to about a 33% efficiency rate with the L button though.

There's no way I'd ever try playing someone with this technique.

I find it much easier with R. I normally shield and dodge with L, but I wavedash with R.

L Cancelling is Lag Cancelling.
That is, Lag Cancelling aerial A moves. After an aerial A move, press block right before landing (timing is slightly different among all the characters). If you do it right, you cut down the lag in recovery time by about 50%. The best example of L Cancelling is with Link's downthrust move. Downthrust and land without trying to L Cancel. Lots of lag, right? Now try to L Cancel it. If you do it right, you should be able to move a lot sooner after you land. If you think you are capable of it, you can spot lots of L Cancelling in my recorded practice videos on the page before this.

Edit: Peach players don't need to L Cancel. Her aerial A moves done while floating self cancel the lag. Ness's aerial up A and down A also self cancel the lag but only on short hops. I might be missing some other character quirks, but those are the only things that come to mind at the moment.

[Red Shadow]

Wow, I learned to L-cancel from the n64 ssb.

I thought it was pretty commonplace.

[Global-Trance]

Wow, I learned to L-cancel from the n64 ssb.

I thought it was pretty commonplace.

It seems like it's commonplace, but it really isn't that common. It's not mentioned in the in-game tutorial or the manual. It was just... in there. There are plenty of Melee players that don't even know what L-Cancelling is still... well... at least the casual ones.

[Red Shadow]

Yeah, I can still remember one of my friends being surprised as hell way back in the day when he rolled out of the way of a downward thrust, me playing link, and instead of getting a free hit on me he got smashed off of the side of the stage.

If I remember right I figured it out because the manual mentioned that if you were quick enough you could spring back into action by hitting the shield button instead of falling on your back after being hit hard, and I had gotten so used to this that I tried it just out of habit right before i got link's sword stuck in the ground.

Why the hell am I writing such longwinded sentences.

[TheCatPhysician]

I just spent an hour messing about just to see if I could do it, and discovered that I am too fast for wavedashing.

Explanation: I hit X and before my character even starts to jump I've already hit L. I am having difficulty slowing my reaction time down by just a fraction. :[
I thought you didn't even want to bother with that sort of play.

Edit: Try using R.
Hey, I said I was messing around just to see if I could.

And I did try R. Doesn't help. I've gotten to about a 33% efficiency rate with the L button though.

There's no way I'd ever try playing someone with this technique.

The timing between jumping and airdodging has absolutely nothing to do with reaction time. Anyone can press X and L at the same time. If the timing between press X and L was determined by how fast your reflexes are, then pressing L before X would be going back in time, heh. So no, you are not "too fast for wavedashing."

The trick to wavedashing is to find out how long you need to wait before you press L. But some characters take longer to jump then others, so you have to experiment and practice wavedashing for each character you want to use. Except some character's jumps are the same speed as others, but you know what I mean. If you want to compare the quickest and slowest jumps in the game to see how different the timing for wavedashing can be, compare Fox or Sheik to Bowser.

[RocketSniper]

Start off with Luigi though. He's the easiest to tell if you've successfully wavedashed.

[Zeklan]

I can wavedash regularly with every character but my own.

Go figure.

[Global-Trance]

I can wavedash regularly with every character but my own.

Go figure.

What? Do you play as Bowser or something?

[Zeklan]

Falco.
I can do it, just not well enough to use in a fight.
I'm more of a rush-type.

[Foxxiña]

I was browsing through my Special records, and I noticed that it took me over three years to finally see Celebi.

[RocketSniper]

But Luigi just skids across the stage, friction is a joke. He is empowered by wavedashing more than any other character.

We make him wear the pink outfit. He is the Master of All Evil.

[CE]

My thread has a big e-peen.

[Forizzle]

Ok, can someone please be kind enough to explain what these advanced moves actually are? What does a "wavedash" do???
Iv'e been a huge fun of SSB since it came out, and was always good enough to beat anyone I know, but I never played in tournaments or became fanatical about it. Im just really curious about all these moves I did not know about...

[Global-Trance]

Ok, can someone please be kind enough to explain what these advanced moves actually are? What does a "wavedash" do???
Iv'e been a huge fun of SSB since it came out, and was always good enough to beat anyone I know, but I never played in tournaments or became fanatical about it. Im just really curious about all these moves I did not know about...

There are a lot of advanced moves in Smash Melee.

Wavedashing and L-Cancelling are the most common advanced techniques (which were explained in previous pages).

The other advanced techniques that I can think of are mostly character specific.
i.e. Falco's pillaring combo, Falco's dashing/travelling short-hop laser, Fox and Falco's shine-wavedash for attacking AND retreating purposes, Samus' bomb recovery to air-dodge to grappling hook, Jigglypuff's wall-of-pain, Marth/Sheik's chain throwing, Ice Climbers' desynching, Ness' yo-yo glitch, Ness/Yoshi/Mewtwo's double jump cancel, Dr. Mario's up+B cancel, etc.

I don't think it's necessary to explain any of these mainly because I don't really feel like it. Though you can see some of the Falco and Jigglypuff in my vids on the previous page.

[Forizzle]

Well, the thread is 82 pages long, and I've read a lot of it, still havn't found the wave dash explenation. I did read the L-cancel one. If comeone could atleast explain what wavedashing is that would be good...

[TheCatPhysician]

Ok, can someone please be kind enough to explain what these advanced moves actually are? What does a "wavedash" do???
Iv'e been a huge fun of SSB since it came out, and was always good enough to beat anyone I know, but I never played in tournaments or became fanatical about it. Im just really curious about all these moves I did not know about...

Go to Smashboards (www.stmashboards.com), you can learn pretty much everything there is to know about competitive Smash there. First go to Melee Discussion and read the stickied threads.

You sound a lot like me when I first found Smashboards, except I couldn't beat EVERYONE I knew, Gigs and I were pretty much tied. But if you are the same as I was then, you'll find that there is a whole lot more to this game then you thought. It's pretty cool.

[Foxxiña]

Well, the thread is 82 pages long, and I've read a lot of it, still havn't found the wave dash explenation. I did read the L-cancel one. If comeone could atleast explain what wavedashing is that would be good...
Wave-dashing is when you jump and immediately airdodge diagonally into the ground. Your momentum from the dodge is transferred into a foward or backward slide along the ground where you can do any move, like a down-smash or a foward-smash.So it's a roll dodge.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Forizzle: if you want to see a lot of this advanced shit in action, I reccomend you check out some DBR videos.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=410178209619848304&q=dbr&hl=en <-- that's their longest one, but they have a bunch of individual charcter videos as well. Just do a google video search for DBR.

EDIT:
Well, the thread is 82 pages long, and I've read a lot of it, still havn't found the wave dash explenation. I did read the L-cancel one. If comeone could atleast explain what wavedashing is that would be good...
Wave-dashing is when you jump and immediately airdodge diagonally into the ground. Your momentum from the dodge is transferred into a foward or backward slide along the ground where you can do any move, like a down-smash or a foward-smash.So it's a roll dodge.
No, it's not. It's faster, more controllable, and more versatile, because you can do any attack out of it, before you even finish moving.

[Ferret]

Taucer's right, wavedashing (when executed properly) can be the key to success over defeat.

Although I still prefer not to learn and rely on good old fashioned throw everything I can get my hands on.

[Broken]

So, wavedashing is all fun and good (no, seriously, it is), but what do you guys who use advanced techniques in your playstyle think about dash-dancing?

I first was exposed to it when I found out about wavedashing and everything else. That is, at my first gaming convention/ tournament. I was of course beaten soundly in some friendlies by the tournament players because they knew something I didn't.

I've heard that dd-ing can be even more versatile than wavedashing, and I believe it, but it's extremely difficult to use as I play. And it's not just the dd-ing that's difficult, but springning an attack from it. I try to be unpredictable by crouch cancelling my dash and using pivoting, but I can't do it quickly/efficiently enough to incorporate it into my play. Anyone else have trouble with it or effectively play without it?

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I don't use dash dancing much. I've always found it to be pretty pointless.

[Eten]

DD-ing is like a w/e to me. It really doesn't seem to change things much when used against me and it's a little too distracting to use. Now, a "wavedash-dance" is extremely confusing when done by fast wavedasher's. I end up using the wrong move at the wrong time and they just wavedash into me for a followup on the lag.

Of course, I main samus, so anybody waiting back gets missled much. I'm not used to approaching people without alot of bombs and missles.

In my general opinion on wavedashing, some character could do without it by using dash-cancel instead, but other characters use wavedashing as an equilizer between slower and faster characters because it simply makes them faster, such as luigi.

[Soodey]

dash dancing is good but only neccesary when you play skilled opponents. Since its a mind game its all about tricking your opponent. Dash dancing, in combination with empty short hops, wavelands, and wavedashing can give you that much of an edge for your opponent to slip up. As in he tries to attack you and you aren't where he expected you to be.

Wavedashing is one of the few techniques I haven't bothered to master yet. Maining captain Falcon I have plenty of other aspects of his game to work on. Falcon's wave dash actually is quite impressive, watching vids of pros, but his dash dance is freakin insane.

You take the character tied with the fastest run(tied with fox), and the fastest dash(the extra burst of speed he gets when begining his run) and you have one crazy Dash dance.

[TheCatPhysician]

Dash dancing is an interesting topic for me right now, because at OC2 I found out that Japanese players don't use it! They never do it more than once, anyways. I watched a video of Bombsoldier vs. Masashi to make sure, and the only time I've seen any dash dancing is when they are standing, and they dash away and then back in with an attack, so they use it just to space themselves like that.

I think that you can dash dance two ways, the smart way, and the stupid way. The stupid way is to just dash dance in place without worrying about controlling how far each dash is, and the only purpose of you doing it is to be able to come out with an aerial whenever you want, which scares your opponent. But I don't think this is very effective against someone who knows what's going on, which means anyone who is somewhat good. This is the way I used to think dash dancing was supposed to be used when I first found out about it, but it doesn't do much unless you are controlling how far each dash is.

Which brings me to the smart way: Since you can cancel a dash at anytime, you can have good control of travelling while dash dancing. You can dash one way, wait until the last possible moment to dash back, but then cancel that dash as SOON as possible, so that you almost just dashed twice in the same direction. This is the most control over travelling while dash dancing you can use, and you can really put dash dancing to use if you can control how far you travel good. One way I used it today was to chaingrab someone for a while when it was a situation I normally wasn't supposed to be able to chain grab because they were being sent to high. Every time when they came down, I would dash away from them, cancel that dash with a dash back in, and either grab from there, or I would get fancy and dash back out again to fake him out, making him think that I was just going to grab out of the first dash back, but then while he's reacting to that, I'm already back out of his range, ready to cancel yet another dash to come back in and finally grab him, abusing the lag from whatever he reacted with. Holy crap this game is fun.

[Broken]

The main use I saw for dash dancing would be to use it and pivot into an instant smash attack. I imagine, once someone gets that down solidly, they could dash dance like the freaking tazmanian devil, but be instantly able to launch a smash, foward tilt, or aerial right from it. That would allow you to pressure people like no tomorrow.

But then again, I also imagine a Marth who perfectly shffls across Final Destination would be like a whirldwind of destruction, knocking you off the stage without any hope of retaliation.

[ILLiterate]

So I've switched from Falcon to Dr. Octagone-o-coloyst/Mario

Everything just feels a bit better with him, and I'm not killing myself ever, so that's a plus. Also, it takes some skill to play as him with the lag he gets if you mess up, and I'd rather play with a challenging character other than some Fox/Falco/Marth top tier stuff (tier hate for great justice)

Going to have to get good at shuffling before October 28th, also, we best get a meet-up going for that tourney

[Global-Trance]

Dash dancing is helpful if you're smart about it. Not all characters should use dash dancing of course, like Falco. Marth is probably, imo, the perfect character for effective dash dancing, since you can dash dance with him to get easy grabs. It's ridiculously easy with him. I'd like to incorporate dash dancing with my characters, but I don't think it works that well with any of my top characters.

[ILLiterate]

Already figured some things out, found a great tutorial video at Smash Boards, things look good

[Global-Trance]

I like how a lot of people talk about Shffling but can't L-Cancel worth beans. Isn't that like the most important part of it?

[quine]

Pretty much, yeah.

I like how a lot of people talk about Shffling but can't L-Cancel worth beans. Isn't that like the most important part of it?

[Sir_NutS]

Since I haven't been visiting this thread a lot, I wonder if super special moves have been already discussed here. I was wondering which would fit each character the best, we already saw the massive 1,000 firaballs move from mario, and the atomic fart from wario or the "mega flare" (as I've called it) from samus... I wonder what we'll see for characters like solid snake, kid icarus or metaknight...

[CE]

Since I haven't been visiting this thread a lot, I wonder if super special moves have been already discussed here. I was wondering which would fit each character the best, we already saw the massive 1,000 firaballs move from mario, and the atomic fart from wario or the "mega flare" (as I've called it) from samus... I wonder what we'll see for characters like solid snake, kid icarus or metaknight...

Meta knight's better involve the Halbierd

[ILLiterate]

Since we're talking about super moves, these seem like they would mess up my game hardcore. It seems there is no way to build up a meter and then unleash one or anything, from the trailer. It just looks like there is a random item that once you grab unleashes it, which is kind of...stupid. Also, these also seem very easy to block/dodge as long as you aren't retarded...

Thankfully you'll just be able to turn these off, so it doesn't bother me that much

[linkspast]

Solid snake will hop in a Metal Gear and kill every thing.

[Zeklan]

I kinda hope everyone has two specials.
An all attack and a focus attack.

Sure, Link can pummel the bejesus out of someone for massive damage, but in a 4 player, 99 stock match that's pretty insignificant.

However, Mario's ability to ruin a crowd would be exceptionally useful.

Let's say Link's move does 200%.
That's one person who has almost no chance of living.
Link kills this person, but he just comes back fresh, not to mention the 3 other people left untouched.

Now let's say Mario's move does 60% to all hit by it. (Assuming it can't be blocked)
Now these people have all been fighting so they are at around 60-70% each.
60% + 60% = 120%
At 120%, a decent place Smash will kill all three of them.

In conclusion, Mario does 180% damage to 3 people, granting him 3 easy kills.

Link does great damage to one person but still has to fight off three more.

It just seems unbalanced to me.
Giving all characters 2 Supers, one group and one single, would fix this problem.

[CE]

Since we're talking about super moves, these seem like they would mess up my game hardcore. It seems there is no way to build up a meter and then unleash one or anything, from the trailer. It just looks like there is a random item that once you grab unleashes it, which is kind of...stupid. Also, these also seem very easy to block/dodge as long as you aren't retarded...

Thankfully you'll just be able to turn these off, so it doesn't bother me that much

Yeah it's just one more thing to add to the crazy fun. But since it's customizable, there's no problem. They could add items that totally break the game it wouldn't be a problem if you can turn them off.

[RocketSniper]

Wait a second, there's an october 28th meeting? I've been following this thread for like, the last week and didn't hear anything about it... Where is it?

[Contricity]

My basic strategies

Marth - Forward throw to a tipper forward smash. I also use Counter. Alot. Another combo thing I use is an Up throw, short hop and "trying to grab them in the air", which results in a neutral air. Just to make it easier for me.

Fox - Shine. Alot. Also, when my opponent is about at 75% I go for the up throw to (X + ^+A), whatever people call that.

C. Falcon - The Knee and Falcon Punch.

Falco - Pillaring to about 70% then forward smashes.

Ness - PK Fire with a baseball bat.

Link - Nothing too special...

Can't think of any others right now...

[Global-Trance]

My basic strategies

Marth - Forward throw to a tipper forward smash. I also use Counter. Alot. Another combo thing I use is an Up throw, short hop and "trying to grab them in the air", which results in a neutral air. Just to make it easier for me.

Fox - Shine. Alot. Also, when my opponent is about at 75% I go for the up throw to (X + ^+A), whatever people call that.

C. Falcon - The Knee and Falcon Punch.

Falco - Pillaring to about 70% then forward smashes.

Ness - PK Fire with a baseball bat.

Link - Nothing too special...

Can't think of any others right now...

I hear Marth's down throw is better than the forward throw for the whole tip follow up... how does it compare?

Good on the knee. I'd stay away from Falcon Punch unless for it's for kicks.

Link's tough to use, but I recommend lots of projectiles and short hop A moves with up+B to follow up downthrows and guarding the edge.

At least, this is what I've seen are effective.

[CE]

Yeah, I used to play with Link a lot, but I soon realized he was too slow for me. As for Marth, yeah, his down throw makes for excellent follow ups.

[Ninja-san]

I use Link and Ice climbers

Wondering what ya'll thoughts are on using the C-stick to fight in Melee?

[Geoffrey Taucer]

<3 c-stick.

[Red Shadow]

Hate.

In the same vein how many other people use z for everything air like i do.

[linkspast]

I never used the c-stick, it seamed like it would not get the full force of the smash behind it.

[Global-Trance]

It varies.

C-stick has a lot of technical stuff behind it. You can use c-stick up to do up+A in the air without wasting the second jump that usually gets eaten up when you tilt up on the stick. Also you can do dashing short hop down A moves (like spikes) without losing momentum. Try running, short hopping and then doing down A and compare it to c-stick down. If you c-stick down you can keep the control stick tilted to keep your momentum going. If you press down to do down+A, it cuts your speed drastically. I like using the c-stick for these things, but I won't use it to spam smash attacks. Using it for the former reasons is just using it smart. Spamming smash attacks is not.

[ILLiterate]

More or less of what I was going to post, by G-T

[Scufo]

Sero Suit Samus

[TheCatPhysician]

Wondering what ya'll thoughts are on using the C-stick to fight in Melee?

It depends on what type of using the C-stick you're talking about. For aerials, the C-stick is very useful as G-T said, because it allows you to perform up, back and down airs without losing momentum, giving you complete control of the control stick while performing the aerial.

Or you might be referring to how a lot of new players discover the C-stick and do nothing but repeated smash attacks. I'm actually kind of glad this happens, because there are tons and tons of people who find out about competitive Smash and think it's cool so they learn all the advanced techniques and try to play just like the pros they see in videos. They will do wavedashes and dash dances and such, but they don't know why they are useful, why they are doing it. They think that technical skills like wavedashing and shuffling are everything, and they think that's what seperates pros from everyone else. The truth is that things like mindgames, predicting your opponent, and making yourself unpredictable are way more important than technical skills. And that said, technical skills are still really important to playing competitively. They forget that they should be watching their opponent's character and concentrating and their opponent, not themselves.

They get frustrated because they're doing all these advanced techniques they had to practice (well I wouldn't say they're doing them, because they aren't using them correctly at all), and they're being countered by the most simple tactics/moves. They have to realize that these advanced techniques are not meant to replace anything. They are simply additions to what options you already have (that's why they are still very important, because having more options is definetely advantagous, and having less then your opponent is NOT. Plus it adds a lot more depth to the game). Playing Smash is like playing Rock Paper Scissors somewhat, because different moves counter each other. The key thing here is that even simple moves have their place in this, because sometimes they counter more advanced ones.

If you watch videos oef Ken closely, you can see that he always does what is most appropriate for the situation he's in, regardless of how advanced it is. He has no concern for looking flashy. While he's definetely not the only one who does this, he is very good at it, and that's one of the main reasons he is so good. Same goes for all the other top professionals, and I think especially good examples are Japanese players like Masashi.

Anyway, if you are in this stage like I was where you're getting beat by someone who uses incredibly stupid tactics, which is what happened to me when I first got into competitive Smash (well, I wasn't getting BEAT, it's just that I wasn't doing nearly as well as I should have been :wink: ) then just taking a step back and really watching what your opponent is doing and thinking of what ways you can counter it should set you on track right away. But if your really must know, probably the most effective way to counter constant c-stick smashing is with sheild-grabbing. Even if people in this stage know this, they sometimes want to only counter with advanced techniques, because they feel that the advanced techniques should win because they are difficult, and they took practice to learn. This is NOT they way to play (notice the emphasis on "NOT"). Sheild-grabbing counters this tactic, so if you know they are going to do it, and you know you can counter it with sheild-grabbing (there are quite a few other ways to counter, too, and I think in certain situations certain smash attacks will push you too far away to grab, depending on what character you play), then use it. Every time. They should not be hitting you with this when you know they are going to do it, and you know how to counter it. Eventually they will be forced to move on, to get better.

[Global-Trance]

Glad someone agrees with me on the whole C-Stick issue.

[Eten]

Using c-stick for aerials is just smart. It just allows so much better spacing and control while doing aerials.

I've been a long time player without using most advanced techniques. I've used short-hops, l-cancels, and directional influence naturally- but some things aren't so intuitive, such as wavedashing, wavelanding, waveshielding, ledgedashing, missle cancels, and the like.

I've done VERY well without them- but I can't ignore their usefulness. After practicing alot to get the moves themselves down, I've just got to learn how to work them smoothly into how I play. I find that this part of learning advanced techniques is most of the work.

[Ferret]

Maybe I'm shortchanging myself but I really don't see myself as having the kind of patience or dedication necessary for learning advanced techniques and applying them in-game.

I do prefer, as stated before, to keep my distance and wither my opponent down with ranged attacks and thrown objects, moving in for the kill when the damage is sufficient.

Of course using the right move at the right time is key; even so I still hold to my mantra that you can beat a flashy opponent without too much effort or muscle-destroying thumbwork if you bide your time and play things right. After all he who hesitates is lost but he who attacks without a plan is equally susceptible to failure.

In any event the computer can still whip my ass but I'm learning how to at least stay on my feet. Human players are much easier because however many skills they have most tend to have a set repertoire and a pattern of attacks they like to rely on (much like bosses in Megaman). Figuring out their preferences and breaking them is a step towards becoming a stronger player.

And for the record there aren't really any tiers to behold in Smash; in the right hands a supposedly weak character can dominate the match from start to finish.
(Jiggly haters, try using Pound a few times to break your opponents up and set them up for stronger smash attacks and throws. Pichu decriers, learn the power of the traveling Thunderbolt. It saves the little guy some pain and interdicts players quite nicely when executed properly. And those of you who think Kirby is weak, well, he is, but he can deal out a lot of damage in a relatively short amount of time despite the low power of his hits. He excels at knockback as a result.)

[Global-Trance]

In any event the computer can still whip my ass but I'm learning how to at least stay on my feet. Human players are much easier because however many skills they have most tend to have a set repertoire and a pattern of attacks they like to rely on (much like bosses in Megaman). Figuring out their preferences and breaking them is a step towards becoming a stronger player.

Level 9s are a joke in Smash compared to real players. Level 9s don't even block really except for the consistent power shielding to reflect like 90% of the projectiles. I'd say practice against level 9s until you consider any of them to be a joke because in the long run, human players have far far far far far more potential to be dangerous. Only when you can whip on level 9s would I consider learning the advanced techniques. By then you can play smart enough to use them.

[Eten]

I agree, I think a person should play until they can easily and consistantly win against lvl 9s with most characters against most characters. Playing against comps mostly teaches a person speed and reaction, or how to exploit the AI...
but anyway, I think it is really important to have a really solid, fast paced game before trying even faster techniques myself.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Playing against computer players is of very limited use; all it teaches you is how to exploit the AI. Take the battle patterns you learn against a computer and try them against a human and you'll get your ass handed to you.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

I love SSMB and i'm sure i'll love SSBB, but i'm sure i'd repeatedly do awfully online due to the games absurdly large following.

[linkspast]

I love SSMB and i'm sure i'll love SSBB, but i'm sure i'd repeatedly do awfully online due to the games absurdly large following.

If were lucky they will have a good online setup. maybe with a ranking system, so you could be able to play with people of your level. Then people like Ken, could get challenged by everyone, to see who is the real master.

Nintendo could do so much with SSBB online.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

I love SSMB and i'm sure i'll love SSBB, but i'm sure i'd repeatedly do awfully online due to the games absurdly large following.

If were lucky they will have a good online setup. maybe with a ranking system, so you could be able to play with people of your level. Then people like Ken, could get challenged by everyone, to see who is the real master.

Nintendo could do so much with SSBB online.

SSBB online accompanied with a good online pokemon game could possibly take away some of the WOW players.

[Cerrax]

Maybe they can have online play for SSB64 too...

After all these years of play with both Melee and 64, I still like the N64 Smash Bros a lot better. I mean sure, Melee has great new characters and modes, gorgeous graphics and awesome speed and customization; but its lost some of the spirit of the game.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I prefer the polygonal little guys with their quirky and shifty animations, and highly unrealistic proportions. Somethiong about SSB64 really strikes me as awesome and I don't get that vibe from SSBM. If they can incorporate nline play into the Virtuyal Console, I'll be doing my online Smashing on 64 a lot more than I will in SSBB.

[Global-Trance]

Playing against computer players is of very limited use; all it teaches you is how to exploit the AI. Take the battle patterns you learn against a computer and try them against a human and you'll get your ass handed to you.

CPUs should be used for practicing techniques and timing. Not to learn some weak pattern.

[Zombie]

Maybe they can have online play for SSB64 too...

After all these years of play with both Melee and 64, I still like the N64 Smash Bros a lot better. I mean sure, Melee has great new characters and modes, gorgeous graphics and awesome speed and customization; but its lost some of the spirit of the game.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I prefer the polygonal little guys with their quirky and shifty animations, and highly unrealistic proportions. Somethiong about SSB64 really strikes me as awesome and I don't get that vibe from SSBM. If they can incorporate nline play into the Virtuyal Console, I'll be doing my online Smashing on 64 a lot more than I will in SSBB.

I know what you mean man, one of the first things I DL on Virtual Console is SSB64.

[Cerrax]

Maybe they can have online play for SSB64 too...

After all these years of play with both Melee and 64, I still like the N64 Smash Bros a lot better. I mean sure, Melee has great new characters and modes, gorgeous graphics and awesome speed and customization; but its lost some of the spirit of the game.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I prefer the polygonal little guys with their quirky and shifty animations, and highly unrealistic proportions. Somethiong about SSB64 really strikes me as awesome and I don't get that vibe from SSBM. If they can incorporate nline play into the Virtuyal Console, I'll be doing my online Smashing on 64 a lot more than I will in SSBB.

I know what you mean man, one of the first things I DL on Virtual Console is SSB64.

So I'm not alone! I love the 64 verson. Always have preferred it over Melee(my friends think I'm crazy).

[Old Man Time]

I love SSMB and i'm sure i'll love SSBB, but i'm sure i'd repeatedly do awfully online due to the games absurdly large following.

If were lucky they will have a good online setup. maybe with a ranking system, so you could be able to play with people of your level. Then people like Ken, could get challenged by everyone, to see who is the real master.

Nintendo could do so much with SSBB online.

SSBB online accompanied with a good online pokemon game could possibly take away some of the WOW players.

I just hope they don't have huge cheating problems if they have rankings, like they do with Halo 2 and other games. After Bungie reset the levels, everyone pretty much realized that they don't mean anything.

Hopefully SSBB will have large tournaments online... that would be awesome, even though I'd be killed.

[Zombie]

This is off the topic of Brawl but this is the SSB thread to I thought I might as well post this...

Super Smash Flash over at www.mcleodgaming.com

It's pretty awesome, and you can be charactors like Sonic, Cloud, Chrono, and even Inuyasha (some unlocking is required, however).

[Cerrax]

This is off the topic of Brawl but this is the SSB thread to I thought I might as well post this...

Super Smash Flash over at www.mcleodgaming.com

It's pretty awesome, and you can be charactors like Sonic, Cloud, Chrono, and even Inuyasha (some unlocking is required, however).

OLD. This has been on Newgrounds forever.

But its is pretty cool. Not a stunning example, but very cool nonetheless.