Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[Foxxiña]

This is off the topic of Brawl but this is the SSB thread to I thought I might as well post this...

Super Smash Flash over at www.mcleodgaming.com

It's pretty awesome, and you can be charactors like Sonic, Cloud, Chrono, and even Inuyasha (some unlocking is required, however).

OLD. This has been on Newgrounds forever.

But its is pretty cool. Not a stunning example, but very cool nonetheless.Sorry, but 3 weeks isn't considered as 'being on Newgrounds' forever. "Forever" on Newgrounds is about two years; this estimate considering factors such as how long Newgrounds has been around and also how Newgrounds is somewhat the outside man when it comes to comparison to SA, YTMND, and 4chan.

[Broken]

Maybe they can have online play for SSB64 too...

After all these years of play with both Melee and 64, I still like the N64 Smash Bros a lot better. I mean sure, Melee has great new characters and modes, gorgeous graphics and awesome speed and customization; but its lost some of the spirit of the game.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I prefer the polygonal little guys with their quirky and shifty animations, and highly unrealistic proportions. Somethiong about SSB64 really strikes me as awesome and I don't get that vibe from SSBM. If they can incorporate nline play into the Virtuyal Console, I'll be doing my online Smashing on 64 a lot more than I will in SSBB.

I know what you mean man, one of the first things I DL on Virtual Console is SSB64.

So I'm not alone! I love the 64 verson. Always have preferred it over Melee(my friends think I'm crazy).

Attacks in SSB seemed to do more damage and hace farther knockback than in Melee. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, it's just something I've noticed.

[Global-Trance]

So I'm going to my first real, real tournament this weekend down in San Bernadino, CA. Even though it's not a grand scale tournament or anything, wish me the best! :)

It's funny, a couple years ago, the same tournament had a not so huge turnout, but Ken ended up showing up anyways. Maybe he'll show up this year. :)

[ILLiterate]

Maybe they can have online play for SSB64 too...

After all these years of play with both Melee and 64, I still like the N64 Smash Bros a lot better. I mean sure, Melee has great new characters and modes, gorgeous graphics and awesome speed and customization; but its lost some of the spirit of the game.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I prefer the polygonal little guys with their quirky and shifty animations, and highly unrealistic proportions. Somethiong about SSB64 really strikes me as awesome and I don't get that vibe from SSBM. If they can incorporate nline play into the Virtuyal Console, I'll be doing my online Smashing on 64 a lot more than I will in SSBB.

I know what you mean man, one of the first things I DL on Virtual Console is SSB64.

So I'm not alone! I love the 64 verson. Always have preferred it over Melee(my friends think I'm crazy).

Attacks in SSB seemed to do more damage and hace farther knockback than in Melee. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, it's just something I've noticed.Yet for some reason I always find it easier to get back on the stage even when I'm knocked out of the park...go figure

[Eten]

So I'm going to my first real, real tournament this weekend down in San Bernadino, CA. Even though it's not a grand scale tournament or anything, wish me the best! :)

It's funny, a couple years ago, the same tournament had a not so huge turnout, but Ken ended up showing up anyways. Maybe he'll show up this year. :)

Ooo, report back on how you do. It would be great if you play Ken too.

Tournaments are awesome places to learn more about SSBM. So many people, it's alot different than just playing in a circle of friends.

I figure Brawl is going to be much in the same way with it's online ability. There will be so much more playing and so much more compitition and then skill will develop.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I'm heading to a tournament in Tarboro (my first tourney as well) sept 23. I don't know of any famous players here in NC, but I expect there will be at least one person there who can hand my ass to me on a platter. I hope so, anyway.

At any rate, it'll be nice to finally play somebody good besides my brother.

[ILLiterate]

Since we're talking about first tournies for Smash, mine will be on 10/28th and a continuation of that one sometime in December

[Silent Mike]

Mine is in two days, Rockville MD.

[Global-Trance]

So I'm going to my first real, real tournament this weekend down in San Bernadino, CA. Even though it's not a grand scale tournament or anything, wish me the best! :)

It's funny, a couple years ago, the same tournament had a not so huge turnout, but Ken ended up showing up anyways. Maybe he'll show up this year. :)

Ooo, report back on how you do. It would be great if you play Ken too.

Tournaments are awesome places to learn more about SSBM. So many people, it's alot different than just playing in a circle of friends.

I figure Brawl is going to be much in the same way with it's online ability. There will be so much more playing and so much more compitition and then skill will develop.

I probably won't be participating in the singles matches (one on one) but I will be participating in teams and crew battles. I'll let you guys know how we do. I will also be photodocumenting the event so maybe I'll be posting some photos later on.

[CE]

You guys think we'll get more info on Brawl at wii3? Like the other non-nintendo character(s)? I'm really hoping for Simon Belmont or Megaman...

[watkinzez]

You guys think we'll get more info on Brawl at wii3? Like the other non-nintendo character(s)? I'm really hoping for Simon Belmont or Megaman...

Nah, Nintendo will want to concentrate on their launch lineup for now. Brawl is set to be their big E3 title next year.

Wait.. just remembered, no E3 anymore. Whatever replaces it, then.

[Hector]

I'd actually prefer if Nintendo tried its best to ensure that third-party characters stay secret. Keep everything secret about them until the "OMG I unlocked *****" or "****** is in event match **, but I can't figure out how to unlock him". Something to make the completionist quest a little more rewarding (and I'm thinking of a robust adventure mode that is at times like Super Mario World with secret endings).

[Zeklan]

The guy running the show said he'd like to do what he did with Melee, and reveal the characters beforehand.
He said he wasn't sure he was gonna' do it though.

Also, I'd love to see Hector from FE in there.
An axe-wielder would be awesome.

[Azul v2]

Simon Belmont would be awesome. Good old fashioned whipping.

[Dexie]

Simon Belmont would be awesome. Good old fashioned whipping.

Cross Crush as a super move, anyone? :lol:

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Ok, so I just got back from a small smashfest, my first time seriously playing anybody who was any good aside from my brother (except for the two or three matches I played at Otakon).

I got my ass handed to me.

[TheCatPhysician]

Ok, so I just got back from a small smashfest, my first time seriously playing anybody who was any good aside from my brother (except for the two or three matches I played at Otakon).

I got my ass handed to me.

Your first real outside experience, huh? Yep, that's what happens to everybody. I was happy when I got whipped at my first outside experience, because it showed that though the people in my local group thought we were pretty close to being as good as we can be at the game, there is still a WHOLE lot more left. Heh, we knew nothing about the game. We're still not up to the professional level, still quite a ways away, as I found out when I went to OC2, but we're getting there.

[Global-Trance]

Okay so I came back from mine too. And I did better than I expected.

So I went with my friend Andrew and we entered in the team battles. Two of our other friends came along too.

Double elimination, MLG rules, level bans, best of three matches, loser picks stage.

Our first battle was against DSF and Romeo. We were taking away their lives but it still felt like we were a joke. I didn't know we were against DSF until after the match. This was my first tournament after playing Smash for only a few months and I have to go up against a guy that's ranked in the top 25 of the nation? Ridiculous.

So we ended up in the losers bracket but we ended up rocking the next good handful of matches to lift our spirits. Andrew and I took out half of ThomaSexy's crew (for anyone that knows them from SmashBoards and their numerous tournaments they go to) and my other two friends eliminated the other half of their crew. :)

We won maybe a good four or five battles. If we got a little further we would have had to faced DSF again in the finals. It was kinda depressing but inspiring that the guys that beat us were way better than us and DSF and his partner were way better than them. Looks like I still have a long way to go.

Out of all the people there, I'd say just about everyone was as good as me in the videos (where I didn't really play my best) that I posted on the earlier pages. I say this so that maybe you guys can get an idea of how the turnout was like. All the people that were actually better than me were all better by a long shot.

I wish I did better at this tournament, but what can I say really, except for maybe, "Freaking DSF."

[ILLiterate]

Sorry to break the topic, but I cannot unlock the Random Filter thing in SSBM (you know, you pick what levels you want to be in the random pool). I've unlocked every stage and character today, and from what I've seen I should of gotten it when I unlocked Poke Floats (the last stage I had to get)

WTF D:

[CE]

Ok that's wierd. All you have to do it unlock every stage except for Battlefield, Final Destination, Dream Land N64, Yoshi's Island N64, and Kongo Jungle N64. Are you sure you have them all? Anyway, it's on the options menu under custom rules. And it's handy.

[RocketSniper]

Attacks in SSB seemed to do more damage and hace farther knockback than in Melee. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, it's just something I've noticed.Yet for some reason I always find it easier to get back on the stage even when I'm knocked out of the park...go figure

The characters are much larger. Or the stages are much smaller...

I prefer Melee because of the larger platforms. A little more room to pull off crazy stuff.

[ILLiterate]

Ok that's wierd. All you have to do it unlock every stage except for Battlefield, Final Destination, Dream Land N64, Yoshi's Island N64, and Kongo Jungle N64. Are you sure you have them all? Anyway, it's on the options menu under custom rules. And it's handy.
Yea, I played my 200 vs. matches and got Poke Floats, which should unlock it, but I didn't get anything saying it was unlocked and it's not in additional rules

Mabye I shouldn't of unlocked every stage and character first?

[Broken]

Maybe you have to play for 200 hours as well? I just unlocked the random stage select edit option a few weeks ago myself, and I think I had just been playing multiplayer for a really long time.

[piccolomair]

sorry i basically read the very first post in this thread, the one on page number 1. that person asked for what modes or ideas u had for the new one coming out on wii, well i dont know if anyone already posted these ideas:

Movie Mode: Melee featured a fairly cool feature called camera mode, which allowed u to take pictures of smash bros characters doing....something....the wii version should feature a movie mode which allows u to make small clips or movies of ure favorite characters doing....something KOOL (yes cool with a k)

Personalized Adventure Mode: Another adventure mode but this time one that is more story based and varies from character to character. Each with different bosses and etc.

Secret Special Level Moves: Everyone probably knows if u use falco or fox in either of starfox levels, and press left and right repeatedly, fox/falco do the coolest taunt action, then it causes...well the surrounding starfox ships to attack faster, or more frequently (i actually never noticed a huge difference). Just the same, i think every character, or more characters, should have such moves, and they have more effects....like if falco does the super secret move, then one of the fox ships comes in and blasts one of those smart bombs at the level....something intense like that, cuz it does take an incredible ammount of time to do those little tricks.

Tag Team mode: Sort of like a story mode but for two players, and if u pick a specific duo, like mario and luigi, or fox and falco, then u get to play a more personalized story mode. random duos just get a default story mode.

Reason for a Name: LIke in melee u should be able to enter a name, or profile. but through that profile it should be more customizable, like special preferences. more so, there should be automatic options. for instance, if u use a character more than most, then automatically when ure name is entered ure cursor is placed on ure fave. Aside from that everytime u pick a character u should get a specific title. For instance, if with marth u always get the avenger bonus, then when u select marth the voice should say, Marth the Avenger. it would be awesome to try to get the right titles and keep them.

CHampion belts: THere should be different tourneys with different titles or belts, and only one person or character can have that title. THus in vs mode there would be something worth fighting for. gloating rights and all.

Custom Characters: Sort of goes with that name option thingy, after u set up a profile, u can customize any character, like color templates, and even maybe stats (jump, strength, speed, special, defense, durability) and in some cases customize special moves (falco can use either the stun lazer gun, or use the rapid fire, fox can either use the repel shield that pops upward, or one that pushes enemies left or right) it would make the battle more strategic, and keep u guessing what kind of character u were fighting, no more predictable characters.

i think thats it for now, i think everyones bored of reading my comments by now.

[ILLiterate]

Maybe you have to play for 200 hours as well? I just unlocked the random stage select edit option a few weeks ago myself, and I think I had just been playing multiplayer for a really long time.
200 Hours is way to rediculous. Look on gamefaqs or anywhere else, they say when you unlock Poke Floats (play 200 matches in Vs. Mode) you will have already unlocked 3 other levels. Once you have all four you should get the random filter

Meh whatever, I'll just copy and paste the data from someone elses memory card

[Noodle]

Maybe you have to play for 200 hours as well? I just unlocked the random stage select edit option a few weeks ago myself, and I think I had just been playing multiplayer for a really long time.
200 Hours is way to rediculous. Look on gamefaqs or anywhere else, they say when you unlock Poke Floats (play 200 matches in Vs. Mode) you will have already unlocked 3 other levels. Once you have all four you should get the random filter

Meh whatever, I'll just copy and paste the data from someone elses memory card
You get a notification for playing one million Vs. mode matches. It tells you to go outside. How many hours do you suppose that would take to get? (maybe it was Vs. hours, I'm not sure exactly which)

On topic.... I don't play Smash unless I'm at a tournament (and I've only been to 2, going to another one on the 23rd). I hardly ever utilize wavedashes unless I'm waveshining, or waveshielding occasionally. I DO use 'advanced techs'. I use both the C-stick and A button for aerials. I watch my opponent. I play. That's all there is to it for me. I don't even have a main character really, although I tend to tier-whore about 60% of the time (Roy is my unofficial low-tier :o). Otherwise I'll use whatever character I feel like using at the time.

[Global-Trance]

Okay so I came back from mine too. And I did better than I expected.

So I went with my friend Andrew and we entered in the team battles. Two of our other friends came along too.

Double elimination, MLG rules, level bans, best of three matches, loser picks stage.

Our first battle was against DSF and Romeo. We were taking away their lives but it still felt like we were a joke. I didn't know we were against DSF until after the match. This was my first tournament after playing Smash for only a few months and I have to go up against a guy that's ranked in the top 25 of the nation? Ridiculous.

So we ended up in the losers bracket but we ended up rocking the next good handful of matches to lift our spirits. Andrew and I took out half of ThomaSexy's crew (for anyone that knows them from SmashBoards and their numerous tournaments they go to) and my other two friends eliminated the other half of their crew. :)

We won maybe a good four or five battles. If we got a little further we would have had to faced DSF again in the finals. It was kinda depressing but inspiring that the guys that beat us were way better than us and DSF and his partner were way better than them. Looks like I still have a long way to go.

Out of all the people there, I'd say just about everyone was as good as me in the videos (where I didn't really play my best) that I posted on the earlier pages. I say this so that maybe you guys can get an idea of how the turnout was like. All the people that were actually better than me were all better by a long shot.

I wish I did better at this tournament, but what can I say really, except for maybe, "Freaking DSF."

Bumped cuz it looks like it was completely overlooked.

[ILLiterate]

Think you had it hard? Wait until the tourney here, I'm going to have some insane people to watch and play against

[Global-Trance]

Sorry it was a dinky tournament. I just didn't expect a ranked player to show up...

If I somehow end up going to NCT2, I do not want to fight the elites unless I make it that far. They are rapists in the Smash world.

[ILLiterate]

*BUMP*

Got my problem fixed, now I just need to practice my game

[The Damned]

http://kotaku.com/gaming/cheats/master-hand-in-super-smash-bros-64-201646.php

Might be old, but I saw it and I thought of you guys. Enjoy.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Whoah! I need to try that sometime!

[Global-Trance]

http://kotaku.com/gaming/cheats/master-hand-in-super-smash-bros-64-201646.php

Might be old, but I saw it and I thought of you guys. Enjoy.

Ridiculously fake unfortunately. :(

[ILLiterate]

http://ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=91448

^ Smash tourney meet up

[Geoffrey Taucer]

http://kotaku.com/gaming/cheats/master-hand-in-super-smash-bros-64-201646.php

Might be old, but I saw it and I thought of you guys. Enjoy.

Ridiculously fake unfortunately. :(

Is it really? Damnit.

[Global-Trance]

http://kotaku.com/gaming/cheats/master-hand-in-super-smash-bros-64-201646.php

Might be old, but I saw it and I thought of you guys. Enjoy.

Ridiculously fake unfortunately. :(

Is it really? Damnit.

Yea notice the flickering at the beginning? The dude is emulating it on computer. He probably hacked it to use Master Hand. I've hacked the game on a Gameshark for fun to use Master Hand once. Game freezes once you run out of HP.

[Jam Stunna]

Has anyone ever used Z-Cancelling has opposed to L-Cancelling? Same principle, but instead of doing aerials with either the C-Stick or A button, you use the Z button to attack and then immediately press Z again upon hitting the ground. Since you don't really have to move different fingers, like with L-Cancelling, it makes it alot easier and faster. I've been working at it lately and it really works. I'm just having a hard time unlearning years of L-cancelling.

[ILLiterate]

Yes, you can L cancle with other buttons, people just started calling it L cancle. It's all about preference

[Broken]

So, just a general question, but does anyone know the different effects of a light (large) shield as opposed to the darker, more dense (small) one?

If that was unclear I'll try to explain it better. Basically, is there any benifit for lightly depressing the L/R button or using z-sheild as opposed to jamming the L/R button?

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

differences of bubbleshield:
-larger shieldstun time
-you slide further when hit
-less chance of shieldstab
-uses up shield less quickly

so, it's useful to throw off combos sometimes, and to get away, and for people like gaw who have tiny shields...(and for the fastfaller vs marth lightshield edgehog trick)...but sucks if you're trying to shieldgrab.

[Noodle]

Yes, you can L cancle with other buttons, people just started calling it L cancle. It's all about preference
The L stands for lag. Also, I've been raped by a Marth who used the short-hopped double forward aerial. I think he got me 7 times in a row with it once. He was using Z for that, and it works well too. The second press cancels the lag and you can go straight into another SHDFA much easier.

[ILLiterate]

differences of bubbleshield:
-larger shieldstun time
-you slide further when hit
-less chance of shieldstab
-uses up shield less quickly

so, it's useful to throw off combos sometimes, and to get away, and for people like gaw who have tiny shields...(and for the fastfaller vs marth lightshield edgehog trick)...but sucks if you're trying to shieldgrab.Don't forget it covers your whole character, so people who try sliding attacks against you are stopped

[Noodle]

differences of bubbleshield:
-larger shieldstun time
-you slide further when hit
-less chance of shieldstab
-uses up shield less quickly

so, it's useful to throw off combos sometimes, and to get away, and for people like gaw who have tiny shields...(and for the fastfaller vs marth lightshield edgehog trick)...but sucks if you're trying to shieldgrab.Don't forget it covers your whole character, so people who try sliding attacks against you are stopped
That's what that means btw

[ILLiterate]

I lose twice in a row D:

I need a better controller before the tourney, mines all unresponsive and shizznit

[TheCatPhysician]

Yes, you can L cancle with other buttons, people just started calling it L cancle. It's all about preference
The L stands for lag. Also, I've been raped by a Marth who used the short-hopped double forward aerial. I think he got me 7 times in a row with it once. He was using Z for that, and it works well too. The second press cancels the lag and you can go straight into another SHDFA much easier.Whoa! Thanks for that, I can't believe I never thought of using Z for that. I remember expirementing between using A or the C-stick and trying to find the most consistant way to be able to control my character and get the L cancel every time. This is perfect! By the way, I found that it is best to only use Z for the second fair, because you need to start the first fair right away which means most of the time you will do a JC grab. At least that's how it is for me. So now I have a new way to do it that I need to practice: Press A and then Z for the second one. Wow, the way it L cancels is perfect. Thanks!

I'll bet this is probably well-known with good Marths, but Marth isn't my main and I'm not so good with him, so I never really go to the Marth Character Specific forum at Smashboards or anything. So thanks for introducing that to me, after practicing this I should be able to SHDFA and L cancel into the next one really consistantly now. I mean I was able to do it before, it's just I would mess up every once in a while. I actually managed to pull the Ken combo off on my friend once, took him from one side of the stage to the other, ended with spike, 0%-death. Should have seen the look on his face! Anyway, hopefully I'll be able to do that more often now.

[Noodle]

Thanks!
You're welcome.

[TheCatPhysician]

After trying to use it in matches, I realized you kind of need to use the C-stick for the second aerial most of the time, because you need to be able to control yourself in the air to follow their DI. At low percents (Marth vs. Marth) you might go past them with the second fair because you have to hold forward to perform the aerial with Z. So I'm going to have to stick to C-stick for this. And plus, sometimes actually hitting someone with the second fair seems to keep you in the air long enough so that Z doesn't L-cancel. Maybe it's just me. But eh, the whole using Z for aerials to L cancel, might work for some, but I've already had the regular way down for a long time, so I don't think there's any reason to change. Plus if you use Z, you have to make sure to only use it for the aerials that are performed close enough to the ground to actually get the L-cancel. Since you're going to have to use L for the aerials that aren't that close, it seems it would just be better to use L for all L cancelling.

[G_D]

I'm gonna barge in here and go way off-topic.

If anyone is interested, I've started an intercollegiate league for Smashers on Facebook, called the ISSBL (http://kettering.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2211744663). For now, it is centered in Michigan (where I'm at), but I'm sure that as interest grows it will spread out quickly.

[CE]

It's official, SSBM has ruined my GC controller. After hours and hours of fun, a part of the analog stick's outer perimeter was cut making the plastic turn upwards. This made it slowly sut through the rubber above as it was used and spun around during game play. Now, all I have is the plastic stub. It's playable, but it kinda hurts.

Here's to years of fun. Here's to my half normal, half transparant controller of luck. Bon voyage good buddy. It seems you unwrothy shell was not enough to contain your awesomeness.

[ILLiterate]

Smash also "broke" my main controller. I cannot light sheild with either side buttons now, making mah sadness go D:

Smash is known to break controllers, with all it's dashin and shiznit, $25 isn't too bad for a brank spankin new controller

[Broken]

Haha, yeah Melee does ruin controllers. I used to make fun of my friend years ago b/c all of his controllers were messed up, but of course when I borrowed his Melee disc and started playing often, My controllers started messing up too.

On a less humorus note, my friend finally laid down the law and made me give him back his copy of SSBM. Had he taken it back when I offered it to him and was about to buy my own copy, things would have been fine, but he didn't and I don't have the time nor money to go buy Melee right now, so that'll have to wait.

[Katsurugi]

Sure it messes up controllers. But, if you think about it, it was well worth it. :o I've been playing for such a long time already (ever since it was released). It's fun to play every once in a while just to mess around.

8)

[Jam Stunna]

I went to a tournament last Saturday where they recorded just about everything. Hopefully I'll get the videos soon, and I'll post them here with a more detailed explanation of the tournament.

[Global-Trance]

I went to a tournament last Saturday where they recorded just about everything. Hopefully I'll get the videos soon, and I'll post them here with a more detailed explanation of the tournament.

Any big name players show up?

[Jam Stunna]

I went to a tournament last Saturday where they recorded just about everything. Hopefully I'll get the videos soon, and I'll post them here with a more detailed explanation of the tournament.

Any big name players show up?

Korean DJ was there, and he proceeded to rape me thoroughly. Zoso's a more local celebrity, but he was there and I actually beat him in a few friendlies. Other than that, it was just local guys, some of whom might go to MLG.

[TheCatPhysician]

Yeah, Korean DJ is really good. I met him at OC2, he is really nice and energetic. He seems to have a really positive attitude. I didn't get to play him though, except in rock-paper-scissors to see who rides in the front seat of Ken's car from the airport. Nice job taking on Zoso, I hope they get those videos uploaded soon.

[Jam Stunna]

Yeah, Korean DJ is really good. I met him at OC2, he is really nice and energetic. He seems to have a really positive attitude. I didn't get to play him though, except in rock-paper-scissors to see who rides in the front seat of Ken's car from the airport. Nice job taking on Zoso, I hope they get those videos uploaded soon.

Yeah, Korean is really cool. I don't know if they taped the Zoso matches since those were just friendlies, and we kept getting crappy stages from random. Anyway, it was fun.

[Jam Stunna]

Okay, got the vids! Both matches are myself versus Chopping Board.

Match 1: Jam Stunna (IC) vs. Chopping Board (Peach)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zuy6Nqb9980

Match 2: Jam Stunna (IC) vs. Chopping Board (IC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCez5rMHFFw

One thing that Chop did better than me was de-synch his Ice Climbers. I'm still trying to work on that.

[Garde]

The OCR SSBM community has come a long way to be talking about de-syncing the Ice Climbers... I've missed out on so much development here...

As for breaking controllers, I've broken at least 3 through SSBM, and I never throw them or anything. It's always the control stick that craps out on me... I guess I was a little too enthusiastic when I used to play.

Anyway, I'm really glad to see that SWF has spread its influence over here a bit more heavily than it had when I was somewhat a part of the scene. :)

Great_Deku, is it invitation only or is it open for anyone on Facebook to join?

Noodle, the L does not stand for Lag. In SSB64 it is called Z-Cancelling because you use the Z-button. I figure they called it L-Cancel because the L-Button (on GCN) uses the same finger the Z-Button does (on N64). So most people who played SSB64 competitively switched over still using their left pointer finger, and hence the L-Button.

EDIT: Clarified 2 things.

[Garde]

Has anyone ever used Z-Cancelling has opposed to L-Cancelling? Same principle, but instead of doing aerials with either the C-Stick or A button, you use the Z button to attack and then immediately press Z again upon hitting the ground. Since you don't really have to move different fingers, like with L-Cancelling, it makes it alot easier and faster. I've been working at it lately and it really works. I'm just having a hard time unlearning years of L-cancelling.

The thing is that what you guys call Z-Cancelling (I didn't know they used the term in SSBM now) doesn't work with 3 characters. Link, YLink and Samus can't Z-Cancel the way you use it. If you just use the Z-button to cancel an aerial move, then sure, it works for everyone. You can't use neutral-Z in the air with those 3, and neutral-Z just so happens to be one of their most viable aerial moves (sex kick for the win). Fortunately, using A for combos involving these characters isn't difficult.

I watched those match vids, and I'm somewhat impressed. My friend who plays IC is somewhat better at de-syncing (Influenza on SWF, Neal irl, if any of you have met him, he's hosted a tourney or two in the Long Beach area), but he's probably had a bit more experience (he's gone to at least 8 big ones and trained with DBR during a few smashfests). You'll pick it up in no time! :)

I personally think you WD too much (this coming from a Link player, take it with a grain of salt ;)), but it's the IC's best form of mobility, so I don't blame you for using it a lot. It just seemed like a few times you got yourself into a bit of trouble by misjudging how safe you were while trying to bait Chopping Board. Again, nothing more experience won't fix. :)

As some of you might know or remember, I use Link... I'm pretty much using a bastardized and outdated version of Germ's play style when I do play. I'm nothing special. Most of the stuff I ended up learning through my own experimenting, and when I saw vids of Germ and played with him a few times, I picked up some other things. He personally recommends cancelling with Z so you don't get stuck in your shield (so you don't have to worry about pulling your finger all the way off the L/R button). My right index finger is sort of screwed up though, not sure from what, but using the Z-button really aggravates it after a few hours (to the point where it swells and won't bend at any of the knuckles). I must've jammed it too many times while playing sports as a kid, or something.

Oh yeah, I read somewhere about bad matchups in tourneys... My very first tourney, I was faced up against Eddie (the #1 Ganondorf in the US at the time, I honestly have no idea if he still plays). Well, I went to the losers' bracket, and unfortunately the controller I brought crapped out on me after I lent it to a friend. :/

If any of you are wondering, I can still pound unskilled players into the ground, but anyone that has been to several tourneys will probably give me a run for my money, or just destroy me outright. Whenever I have gone to smaller tourneys though, people think my Link is godly fast. I just find it funny that they think I'm good and insanely fast, I feel sluggish and clumsy in comparison to Germ and a few other Links that were around while I still played somewhat competitively... Man, talking makes me want to pull out the cube and start practicing... As well as making it to that SJ tourney... Too bad I definitely am not in a financial situation to make it up there. If any of you going see Germ or Trevyn up there, tell them Garde says hi.

[Global-Trance]

How the hell did that Peach foul up so bad at the end rofl

Edit: I saw like no mindgames at all in there. They were okay matches, Jam, but nothing to go wow about. Learn desynching so you don't have to use the jump to get a double ice breath in one direction. Who won the tournament, btw?


Edit 2: I'm about to go to a small tournament here on campus held by a guy on Smashboards. Apparently lot of guys from the boards that are realllllly good are comin too. I just picked up Captain Falcon to try to put in my top 5... good thing Romeo (DSF's partner) is coming showing up. His Captain is great!

[Garde]

Say hi to Alex for me if he's there (DSF). Good luck in that tourney, that's not gonna be an easy one if people like Romeo are going.

[Jam Stunna]

How the hell did that Peach foul up so bad at the end rofl

Edit: I saw like no mindgames at all in there. They were okay matches, Jam, but nothing to go wow about. Learn desynching so you don't have to use the jump to get a double ice breath in one direction. Who won the tournament, btw?


Edit 2: I'm about to go to a small tournament here on campus held by a guy on Smashboards. Apparently lot of guys from the boards that are realllllly good are comin too. I just picked up Captain Falcon to try to put in my top 5... good thing Romeo (DSF's partner) is coming showing up. His Captain is great!

Results from the tournament:
1. Korean DJ
2. Yoyo
3. Spic Tom
4. Soup
5. JV Smooth
5. Zoso
7. Jam Stunna

There were more, but I don't remember the results below myself.

Thanks for the tips, hopefully I'll have more vids soon.

[Garde]

Global-Trance, that Peach wasn't too impressive, imho. My friend Jeromy plays a much scarier Peach. This Peach didn't really try to bait, and she tossed her Turnips as soon as she got them (didn't save them to keep the opponent wary), and never bothered to catch them. Sure, when you're far away, you want to throw them left and right, but once you start your approach to get into close range, hanging onto them isn't such a bad idea. When someone comes in, you can SH back and drop the turnip then float in with an aerial or two. I also didn't see the Peach using the instant float (down+jump on the ground), which is a pretty nice ability to get her high priority air moves flying around at a moment's instance. The Peach didn't throw Turnips up once to get them at a later time... That sort of disappointed me.

Okay Jam, I'm taking a more analytical approach to tell you some do's and don't's for you match vs. Peach.

One thing I noticed is that you dash attacked a few times while she was in a neutral state. You don't even want to use a dash attack while the opponent can react, they are some of the slowest recovering moves in the game, so you should use them to extend combos, that's about it. Unless you're 100% sure that your dash attack is going to hit them. Even if your dash attack crosses the opponent up, they can still SH from their shield and start a air to ground combo. So try and keep your dash attacks to a minimum. I think that if you had jump cancelled your dashes to grab (or just grab), you would've been in a lot better shape. That Peach shields a lot more than he dodges, and he shielded almost every time you dashed in.

There is a problem with your WDing. When you go to bait a move from Peach, you should use a shorter WD. I'm sure you know of the 2 different lengths of WDes you can do, try and get them down, so you can mix them up when approaching. I noticed you ate down smashes a lot while WDing back and forth close to Peach. The reason you ate them is because on your approach in, you WD too far, and since you're holding down for part of it, you're CCing into her down smash, taking more damage. That hurts. If you short WD in, you can bait her down smash and then smack her while she's spinning around. Something else you can do is dash in and WD back. It's a pretty simple technique, but for the paragraph above this one, you were running in and did things at pretty inopportune times. If you feel like you're running into a bad situation, you can WD backwards out of it (if it's not too late), so keep that in mind. Also, it will make your opponents a little bit more wary because they won't know for sure that you're going to be trying to attack when you run in (at this point, you always go in for an attack when you dash in).

After you got rid of Peach's first stock, you started playing a bit more carefully when he took a Turnip out. Another thing that you need practice on is catching them, though. If you're going to catch them, you want to catch it every time you mean to. I have an easy enough time since I play Link and used to practice catching all sorts of things, but it definitely looks like you need some practice catching them. It looked like you anticipated catching them a few times and threw out A moves randomly. If you were anticipating them, you have to unlearn that habit. Catching them off of reaction alone is what's going to help you, anticipating stuff and reacting before the situation occurs leaves you open for combos.

If you have a friend who will help practice with you, go into training mode or something and have them throw turnips at you. Not just repeatedly, they'll have to mix it up a little bit. Make your friend carry a Turnip around at all times during this so they can attempt to catch you by surprise. I guess it won't be so easy to teach you how to fight against Peach tactics without a real Peach player, but you can at least learn how to catch her Turnips at a moment's notice.

You really need to learn how to use the IC throw, also. It's pretty much essential to getting big damage fast. Each time you get a throw, you need to begin desyncing. While you're pressing A to keep them locked, you need to hit B so Nana (or whoever your 2nd is if you use Nana as main) will use her ice spray. You can get 2-3 reps of that for like 20-40 damage easy. My friend, Jeromy, does it all the time (and he's learned a few of his IC stuff from Neal, but Neal is much better). And you can finish the throw with a forward smash, which will send the opponent a lot further than a forward throw. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, go to SWF and post under the IC specific forums or read around and see if they have any advice there. Once you get that down, people will fear getting grabbed by you, and will play much more carefully.

In your match against the ICs... You dash attack wayyy too much. Also, your desyncing is too unnatural at this point. If you have match vids of some good IC players, I suggest you watch them and see how and when they desync so it's a natural part of their game. You pretty much stop what you're doing right now to desync, and it doesn't give you any good results.

I'm surprised neither of you jump out of your shields (shield cancelling is the correct term, I believe, or it's jump cancelling a shield, but there's already JCing for dash throws) when you get attacked from behind, you just sit there... Learn to short hop or jump (depends on what you want to do) when you've been hit from behind while shielding, it's definitely worth your time.

EDIT: Fixed a few things and added some stuff to the WD bait part.

And I forgot to say one last thing. I hope all of this constructive criticism helps you out a little. I'm not attacking your play style at all, I'm just trying to give you advice in areas where it looks like you could improve. If you've been getting advice from good IC players that contradicts anything I say, you'll probably want to listen to them (since I don't really play IC). :P

2ND EDIT: I forgot to mention another thing about shield cancelling. It's probably pretty obvious, but if you jump from your shield, you can also WD from your shield. I didn't notice you doing that either, but it's definitely a useful ability paired with light shielding to slide you away and then sliding back in to attack.

[Global-Trance]

Pretty long winded tips you got there Garde. :P

Anyways, here is the results from the small Smashboards tournament we had at UCSB.

http://lbpolymusic.com/tio/Event.aspx?EventID=133971077

Placed 5th on teams out of 11 teams. S2 and I (Wu) made up Team SexyBack. (UGH. MY STUPID TEAMMATE PICKED THAT NAME!) I didn't like how we did in teams mainly, because of how bad my teammate was. Not only would I get Sheik slapped a lot by my teammate, but he would also jump into my Falco pillaring combos. ARGH.

I made up for how bad I did in teams with doing fairly well in singles. I ranked 7th out of the 21 entries... tied with Araknaphobic. Yea, 7th wasn't placing, but all the guys ranked higher than me, were for sure better than me. So I'm glad that I didn't choke up and lose to the guys that I shouldn't have lost to. I won when I should have won and lost when I should have lost. That's what I think of when I think I succeeded at a tournament. :)

All the guys ahead of me were so good... several which are top 20 over here in Southern California... so I'm not bummed at all at where I placed. :)

[Jam Stunna]

Global-Trance, that Peach wasn't too impressive, imho. My friend Jeromy plays a much scarier Peach. This Peach didn't really try to bait, and she tossed her Turnips as soon as she got them (didn't save them to keep the opponent wary), and never bothered to catch them. Sure, when you're far away, you want to throw them left and right, but once you start your approach to get into close range, hanging onto them isn't such a bad idea. When someone comes in, you can SH back and drop the turnip then float in with an aerial or two. I also didn't see the Peach using the instant float (down+jump on the ground), which is a pretty nice ability to get her high priority air moves flying around at a moment's instance. The Peach didn't throw Turnips up once to get them at a later time... That sort of disappointed me.

Okay Jam, I'm taking a more analytical approach to tell you some do's and don't's for you match vs. Peach.

One thing I noticed is that you dash attacked a few times while she was in a neutral state. You don't even want to use a dash attack while the opponent can react, they are some of the slowest recovering moves in the game, so you should use them to extend combos, that's about it. Unless you're 100% sure that your dash attack is going to hit them. Even if your dash attack crosses the opponent up, they can still SH from their shield and start a air to ground combo. So try and keep your dash attacks to a minimum. I think that if you had jump cancelled your dashes to grab (or just grab), you would've been in a lot better shape. That Peach shields a lot more than he dodges, and he shielded almost every time you dashed in.

There is a problem with your WDing. When you go to bait a move from Peach, you should use a shorter WD. I'm sure you know of the 2 different lengths of WDes you can do, try and get them down, so you can mix them up when approaching. I noticed you ate down smashes a lot while WDing back and forth close to Peach. The reason you ate them is because on your approach in, you WD too far, and since you're holding down for part of it, you're CCing into her down smash, taking more damage. That hurts. If you short WD in, you can bait her down smash and then smack her while she's spinning around. Something else you can do is dash in and WD back. It's a pretty simple technique, but for the paragraph above this one, you were running in and did things at pretty inopportune times. If you feel like you're running into a bad situation, you can WD backwards out of it (if it's not too late), so keep that in mind. Also, it will make your opponents a little bit more wary because they won't know for sure that you're going to be trying to attack when you run in (at this point, you always go in for an attack when you dash in).

After you got rid of Peach's first stock, you started playing a bit more carefully when he took a Turnip out. Another thing that you need practice on is catching them, though. If you're going to catch them, you want to catch it every time you mean to. I have an easy enough time since I play Link and used to practice catching all sorts of things, but it definitely looks like you need some practice catching them. It looked like you anticipated catching them a few times and threw out A moves randomly. If you were anticipating them, you have to unlearn that habit. Catching them off of reaction alone is what's going to help you, anticipating stuff and reacting before the situation occurs leaves you open for combos.

If you have a friend who will help practice with you, go into training mode or something and have them throw turnips at you. Not just repeatedly, they'll have to mix it up a little bit. Make your friend carry a Turnip around at all times during this so they can attempt to catch you by surprise. I guess it won't be so easy to teach you how to fight against Peach tactics without a real Peach player, but you can at least learn how to catch her Turnips at a moment's notice.

You really need to learn how to use the IC throw, also. It's pretty much essential to getting big damage fast. Each time you get a throw, you need to begin desyncing. While you're pressing A to keep them locked, you need to hit B so Nana (or whoever your 2nd is if you use Nana as main) will use her ice spray. You can get 2-3 reps of that for like 20-40 damage easy. My friend, Jeromy, does it all the time (and he's learned a few of his IC stuff from Neal, but Neal is much better). And you can finish the throw with a forward smash, which will send the opponent a lot further than a forward throw. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, go to SWF and post under the IC specific forums or read around and see if they have any advice there. Once you get that down, people will fear getting grabbed by you, and will play much more carefully.

In your match against the ICs... You dash attack wayyy too much. Also, your desyncing is too unnatural at this point. If you have match vids of some good IC players, I suggest you watch them and see how and when they desync so it's a natural part of their game. You pretty much stop what you're doing right now to desync, and it doesn't give you any good results.

I'm surprised neither of you jump out of your shields (shield cancelling is the correct term, I believe, or it's jump cancelling a shield, but there's already JCing for dash throws) when you get attacked from behind, you just sit there... Learn to short hop or jump (depends on what you want to do) when you've been hit from behind while shielding, it's definitely worth your time.

EDIT: Fixed a few things and added some stuff to the WD bait part.

And I forgot to say one last thing. I hope all of this constructive criticism helps you out a little. I'm not attacking your play style at all, I'm just trying to give you advice in areas where it looks like you could improve. If you've been getting advice from good IC players that contradicts anything I say, you'll probably want to listen to them (since I don't really play IC). :P

2ND EDIT: I forgot to mention another thing about shield cancelling. It's probably pretty obvious, but if you jump from your shield, you can also WD from your shield. I didn't notice you doing that either, but it's definitely a useful ability paired with light shielding to slide you away and then sliding back in to attack.

Thanks for the tips, definitely. I have a friend who playus a much better Peach than the one I faced, so I do practice against him. One thing that I've been told as well is that I play too aggressively, and I'm really trying to work on that. As for the shield-cancelling, WD, and lack of grab combos, you're right about all those things. I'm really going to work hard to improve on those.

I'm still really torn between IC and Roy though. I play better with the IC I think, but Roy was my first tourney character, and I spent most of my Smash career playing with him. I don't know, it's just a little nostalgia, I guess. I found an old vid of me playing with Roy from a tourney held July 1st, but I need the creator of the vid to send me a new link. Then I'll post it here.

[Zeklan]

List of the mains I have used over the years:

Link
Marth
Falco
Shiek
Mario
Bowser
Samus
Mewtwo

In that order.
My current is Link again.

[Jam Stunna]

I found the video of me as Roy. The quality is not as great as the other videos though.

Match 1: Shminkledorf(Falco) vs. Jam Stunna (Roy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIvhj-hDqek

Peach and Falco are definitely the characters I have the most trouble against.

[Zeklan]

I saw a lot of mistakes in that one.
The other guy was playing Falco totally wrong.

Maybe it's just me, but you guys both seemed a little slow.

[Jam Stunna]

I saw a lot of mistakes in that one.
The other guy was playing Falco totally wrong.

Maybe it's just me, but you guys both seemed a little slow.

Yes, definitely. I also missed way to many grabs, and the obvious SD at the end.

[Garde]

Global, finishing 7th is by no means terrible.

Finishing in the top 1/3 of a tournament means you did pretty well (unless you consistently place in the top 3 or something). So congratulations a tournament well played! :)

Jam, in my humble opinion, you should play whoever you want to play. One thing that really concerns me about Roy is that he has a lot of counter matches (Falco, Sheik, and Peach to name a few), and will cause a lot of headache when you have to go against them. Actually, almost everyone in the high/top tiers give Roy a significant amount of trouble, unless you're Neo (he was undoubtedly the best Roy in the US when I was still playing). But even he doesn't choose Roy for all of his matches.

Here's a Roy ditto with Ken: http://youtube.com/watch?v=cdAGbWuGbSc

Here's a Roy v. Marth match against Husband: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Dq244s9hYs

Roy v. Marth (Ken) in the finals of a tourney: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8-rI1I47olU

Roy v. Fox (Ken): http://youtube.com/watch?v=E2DrHWRvRQc

That should be enough matches for now... Jam, if you really want to learn Roy, I highly recommend studying these videos to see how he plays. I think his style of Roy is probably the most effective around.

[Garde]

Oh shit! My friend Neal went to that tournament! Haha, he was the IC player from Cal Poly Power. Wow, that sucks that he had to go up against his friend in the 1v1 tournament when he got sent to losers... Oh well, luck of the draw I guess.

If you got any casuals with him or anything, tell me how he's been doing. I haven't really played him in like a year or something, but he's seemed to keep on top of the smash scene.

[ILLiterate]

I found the video of me as Roy. The quality is not as great as the other videos though.

Match 1: Shminkledorf(Falco) vs. Jam Stunna (Roy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIvhj-hDqek
:O

That was bad on both parts D: Your biggest problem is your recoveries. He easily kept you off the stage once he got you off. Try tapping away on the stick when you're grabbed on a ledge and then jump toward it with an attack or a waveland. Everything else is real easy to counter

[Global-Trance]

The Falco wasn't that bad in all honesty since it was freaking Battlefield but I'd easily beat him in a ditto match due to the lack of precision.

Oh Jam. How'd you blow the end? :wink:

Garde, Neal didn't do so hot at the tournament. My ICs are better than his and I hardly even play IC. I didn't get a chance to play with him so I can't say much else... though he did tie with my friends that I think are terrible. *shrug*

[Garde]

Maybe he's out of practice. He's won several tournaments in the past... :-/

I haven't talked to him since sometime in the middle of last year, I think, so I'm not really sure how he's been keeping up with the scene and whatnot.

As for me, I have never been what I would consider good, and you are undoubtedly better than I have ever been. I am pretty much a thoery fighter and sit in training mode when I actually do turn my cube on.

[Global-Trance]

Maybe he's out of practice. He's won several tournaments in the past... :-/

I haven't talked to him since sometime in the middle of last year, I think, so I'm not really sure how he's been keeping up with the scene and whatnot.

As for me, I have never been what I would consider good, and you are undoubtedly better than I have ever been. I am pretty much a thoery fighter and sit in training mode when I actually do turn my cube on.

Yea, Neal might have just choked or something. I heard he's pretty decent anyways...

Nothing wrong with being a theory fighter in training mode... oddly that's one of the main reasons how I got as good as I am now. ;)

[Jam Stunna]

Haha, Global Trance, that SD was pretty bad, but oh well. More vids!

Shminkledorf (Falco) vs. Jam Stunna (Jiggs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jOLwuZwCX0

Shminkledorf (Marth) vs. Jam Stunna (Jiggs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOUQq7Lu9i8

[Garde]

Haha, my biggest problem is that I don't get enough variety of live competition (or any at this point), so I generally have problems facing tactics I am unfamiliar with.

When I get a combo going, though, I generally carry it to an edge and get a kill. A lot of people at small-time tournies go "WTF" and try to learn "secrets" from me.

So all I really need to learn is effective strategies to get in, and which combos I do are guaranteed against which characters, and my skill will probably improve considerably. Another thing I need to work on is using my ranged attacks to zone and control the opponent (it can be difficult against characters like Fox, Falco, Falcon, and Sheik). I really like action in matches and I love playing fast, so I am pretty much an in-your-face melee Link (not always a smart idea, but it's fun!).

[ILLiterate]

Haha, Global Trance, that SD was pretty bad, but oh well. More vids!

Shminkledorf (Falco) vs. Jam Stunna (Jiggs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jOLwuZwCX0

Shminkledorf (Marth) vs. Jam Stunna (Jiggs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOUQq7Lu9i8
First, fucking lol at the guy who was like "telling someone what to do during a match won't help them at all"

Second, you where playing as Jigg all wrong. ALL WRONG. You never even TRIED to do a wall of pain, your recovery is TERRIBLE and your L cancles...well...I didn't even see you do any. You like to spam the side b moves in battle, which should (pretty much) only be used as a recovery move. The guy made a great pick with Marth, knowing that you had a bad recovery and with his long advantage took complete controll over the match. Seriously, please look up on www.smashboards.com guides for the characters you play as and learn their best moves, combos, strats, ect.

Sorry if I come across like an ass, but you REALLY need to know and work on these things

[Jam Stunna]

My problem is one of nervousness. I don't play as well in tournaments as I can simply because of stupid mistakes, missed L-cancels and other little things that add up over the course of a match. I practice alot of tactics at home and with my partner, but they're pretty useless if I'm too nervous to use them in an actual match.

EDIT- Your absolutely right that I play a terrible Jiggs, but he's not really one of my tournament characters anyway. I counter-picked with him, and under normal circumstances I would never pick Jiggs at a tournament. But hey, sometimes you take a risk and see where it takes you, right?

[Garde]

Well, let it be a mistake you don't make again.

Rule #1 - Never choose a character you're not comfortable with just because it's a "counter match" to the opponent's character. The reason counter matches occur are from tactics or moves that can be abused against a character, but they have to be used effectively. If you cannot use the character, then it's not a counter match, and you're just digging a hole for yourself.

Rule #2 - Nervousness sucks, but there are ways to get around it. You cannot be worried about your skill when you go into a tournament. You must frame things in a positive light (get excited, not nervous). If you make a mistake, don't dwell on it, you can still come back (unless it's your last stock and you just SDed or something comparable). You also need to actually convince yourself that you're not nervous. It can be difficult at first, but if you really like SSBM, just think of how much fun you're going to have, or how much you'll learn and improve from the match. Don't think of the things that can go wrong, but if you do, think of how you can get yourself out of the bad situations.

Rule #3 - Experience builds confidence. The more you are exposed to and learn, the less things will catch you off guard, and the more you will be able to react to. This in turn helps your execution as you will not make as many mistakes (mistakes come from being surprised and being nervous, also from lack of practice).

With those in mind, kick some ass. :)

[ILLiterate]

Rule #4 - When you need to pee, pee. The line is going to be long at the bathroom, I know, I had to go in there and there was people talking about the game and stuff and I'm like "DUDE I NEED TO SHIT A BRICK" and they're like "lol." Water and such is a big NONO at a tourney

And the man is right about dwelling on mistakes. Don't be the "oh snap I missed it D:" guy, that kinda stuff distracts you.

Another big problem with people is, they will do a move, miss it, and will keep doing it until it hits. It's werid, but it always happens, so don't fall for it

[Garde]

So true. People get caught up in their own misexecution and will attempt it to "prove" they can do it. Use it to your advantage.

Of course, if you're going against someone ranked nationally, they're probably not going to bother doing that, and you might get 4-5 stocked. I got 4-stocked by DSF and Wes. Life goes on.

EDIT: I forgot to comment on the idiot who said "telling someone what to do doesn't help them"... Man, giving someone advice in a match can totally turn the tides, and it's one reason why you're not supposed to do it. It's basically a form of cheating. If someone doesn't know how to get around a tactic, let's say shield grabbing (for an extremely simple example), and someone is like "dude, land behind him." Or someone is stuck in their shield because someone is attacking them from behind and someone is like "just jump out and use an aerial attack," it can totally change the flow. Those are 2 of the scrubbiest examples I can think of, but they're pretty big turn points in someone's game since they're so basic.

But yeah, if someone knows how to get around any strategy and blurts it out, it can totally shift a match, provided the player is competent enough to use the newfound knowledge effectively.

[TheCatPhysician]

Man, I had a huge problem with nervousness at OC2. I can't wait until the next tournament I go to. I did so horrible and I have to make up for it. And I sort of made that mistake of picking a counter pick just because the character counters. I was playing against an IC and I lost with my main so I counterpicked with Marth, who I do know how to play, but he's not my main. I ended up pretty much just trying to wavesmash and do the same stupid tactics a lot, and I was too scared to try anything because I had no experience in the match-up. I got him to the last stock, but I know I would have been able to win by a lot if I had control of myself. I hate nervousness. I kept telling myself to stop doing what I was doing but it's like I had no control of what I was doing. Anyway I really want to go to another tournament now and do better, next time I won't let my nervousness get the better of me. And I won't pick any character that I'm not totally comfortable with. That was a stupid mistake, picking Marth. You have to know your character like the back of your hand, because your subconscious plays a huge role in your playing, and you're subconscious isn't going to be making good decisions and stuff if you don't subconsciously know all the properties of every aspect of your character.

[ILLiterate]

Preach

Tower Records is going out of business, so I got a brand new GC controller for $18, horrah

In EB today, I ran into a guy that plays serious Smash, so now I've finally got more people to practice with :D

[Garde]

Congratulations on finding a new Smash partner!

I know I've always been incredibly excited when I find someone new who knows how to play competently (of course I rarely play with any of them... :().

As for the deal with Neal's performance, I don't think I posted it here yet. It turns out he lost interest in SSBM after MLG Anaheim and hasn't practiced much since. The main reason he went down to UCSB was to see some friends.

[Fishy]

Hey guys, I just wanted to ask a question about wave dashing. Realistically, is there a significant reason to learn to wavedash with fox? It's apparently harder to do with him then other characters, and his dash is probably much faster. I was discussing this with someone at school and I don't think its worth doing, and that it'll distract me from my regular tactics. I've watched a fair few matches from the pros on youtube and I rarely ever see anyone do it with fox, lots with falco, but hardly ever fox.

Bearing in mind I dont use many "advanced" techniques I think i'll be doing myself more harm then good. I don't really play it enough to bother with them.

Thoughts?

[TheCatPhysician]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60570
This is a really good guide for learning advanced techniques for Fox. Fox's wavedash is one of the most useful in the whole game, because he can jump cancel his shine, which means he can shine, immediately jump cancel (a minimum of 3 frames after the shine, to be exact) and then instead of actually jumping, you airdodge at an angle into the ground before he jumps, so that he slides on the ground (you probably already know that's a wavedash). Together, this is called a waveshine and it is one of the biggest reasons Fox is the highest tiered character in the game. Waveshine can make some of the biggest combos. For characters who don't fall from getting hit by the shine, you can shuffle a down air into a shine, which is too fast for them to escape if they get hit by the dair, then waveshine immediately in the direction they went, which means you just follow right along them, and then you have the opportunity to hit them with anything you want, pretty much. You can go directly into an upsmash, or up throw to up air, both of which can start some big juggling combos that can end in death if you do it right. OR, after your waveshine, you could do another shine and the make that a waveshine. There are a lot of possibilities but I have to go fast so read that guide, and incorporate these skills one by one into your game.

[Garde]

Waveshining and other advanced techniques with Fox are definitely not recommended for the casual gamer.

For more basic uses of the WD, you can shield cancel with a WD, which is always useful against people with fairly long-ranged attacks with lag afterwards (Marth and Link come to mind).

Another generic use would be to bait attacks or to avoid attacks. WDing has considerably less lag than rolling, so you can completely avoid an attack by WDing that would lead into some irritating pressure, like a Falco shine combo where you get stuck in your shield if you shield. It's generally a good idea to avoid situations like that altogether. If you roll, you'll probably get hit or grabbed as the person chases after you, but if you WD out of the way, he'll be the one that's left open, while you can run in and grab him, or use a smash attack with reach.

You may think "but you can side-step dodge and get the same result," but that would be an incorrect assumption. If you side-step a shine combo, you can likely expect to get hit by a 2nd shine (as many Falco's will do) and still get comboed the same as if you had gotten hit by the first shine.

[Global-Trance]

Pretty much what those guys said. Waveshining makes Fox that much more dangerous. Very difficult on the hands though... so unless someone is really good at it, it's not that something to worry about. Expect to see it in a real tournament.

[Fishy]

You may think "but you can side-step dodge and get the same result," but that would be an incorrect assumption. If you side-step a shine combo, you can likely expect to get hit by a 2nd shine (as many Falco's will do) and still get comboed the same as if you had gotten hit by the first shine.

Thats all very well and good, but i only know one person who uses falco and hes doesnt even know what a short hop is, and there are no melee tournaments in the uk to my knowledge so... I think i can survive with a roll. Seriously, I played the best people i know in 4v4s today at school. After a few rounds they all had 11KOs i was on something like 50. One round i actually got all 9 Kos and didnt die. It's annoying sometimes, I want some really amazing people to play because i dont feel like i'm getting any better. I have no need for all these advanced and combo breaking techniques, cause no one ever uses the combos. The only thing they annoy me with is spamming B+ups with link.

[Garde]

That was a very specific example, most jump in pressure isn't safe to side step. Marth's SH double f-air is pretty dangerous and leads to combos, side-stepping doesn't work. Link can jump in with a SHFFLed sex kick and go to double neutral-A and then grab, something that can't be avoided by a side-step.

Most characters have some form of preventing a shield-grab on a jump attack, and if it's safe against shield grabbing not because you're behind the opponent or outside their grab reach, you can't side-step dodge it because they keep on attacking to keep you in shield stun.

The only reason I gave that very specific example was so you would know what I'm talking about, but you took my example too literally and interpretted it as being one of the few useful cases. In fact, it's useful in plenty of situations.

Any time someone uses an aerial attack that you can avoid from WDing, it's probably a good idea to do so unless you can get something really good off a shield-grab (and only if the shield grab is guaranteed). If you can attack the person through their aerial attack, then there's no point in WDing (someone a fair distance above Link is going to have a lot of trouble doing any better than exchanging blows with his up-air, for example).

[TheCatPhysician]

You may think "but you can side-step dodge and get the same result," but that would be an incorrect assumption. If you side-step a shine combo, you can likely expect to get hit by a 2nd shine (as many Falco's will do) and still get comboed the same as if you had gotten hit by the first shine.

Thats all very well and good, but i only know one person who uses falco and hes doesnt even know what a short hop is, and there are no melee tournaments in the uk to my knowledge so... I think i can survive with a roll. Seriously, I played the best people i know in 4v4s today at school. After a few rounds they all had 11KOs i was on something like 50. One round i actually got all 9 Kos and didnt die. It's annoying sometimes, I want some really amazing people to play because i dont feel like i'm getting any better. I have no need for all these advanced and combo breaking techniques, cause no one ever uses the combos. The only thing they annoy me with is spamming B+ups with link.
That must suck for you, having only worse opponents. The best thing to do probably, is just keep beating them. Find out what is different between you and them, what makes you win, and utilize it. Obviously your opponents must have some predictable patterns/habits, so make sure you punish them every time for it, and maybe every once in a while point out to them what's happening. Eventually they will be forced to drop their habits and get better. But this might make some people quit, because you have to punish their bad habits every time - some people will just get frustrated and quit.

And once they get as good as you, you will have to start learning new stuff too. And Garde, I know waveshining is way too advanced for a casual player. But he was asking if their is any reason to use wavedashing as Fox, and in the long run, there definitely is. That's why I linked to that guide, which is perfect for a new/casual Fox player, because it introduces the advanced techniques one by one, starting with the most basic ones, going up to things like waveshining. The sections in the guide even set goals for you to accomplish to make sure you learn the things.

[Global-Trance]

Anyone got any sweet tips for play against advanced Marths as Sheik? I'm trying to learn all the top characters so I can actually play against them in future tournaments.

[Garde]

TheCatPhysician, I know, I was just letting him know that waveshining isn't something he'll find useful as a beginner. It's far too difficult for someone not incredibly comfortable with almost all of Fox's advanced techniques to pull off consistently in matches.

Global-Trance, don't let them grab you. :P

In all seriousness, I think strategies vs. those 2 characters differ greatly depending on which character you are playing as against them.

For Link, you don't have to worry about being grabbed against Marth, but you need to worry about chain grabbing with Sheik, which can sometimes lead to guaranteed KOs.

For Falco, you don't need to worry about chain grabbing with Sheik, but you need to seriously worry about chain grabbing vs. Marth, who can tipper you around 60 for a pretty much guaranteed KO every time.

For each character, you need to find out what you need to look out for, then develop strategies around those important match turning abilities they have.

For Link, getting stuck in shdfa from Marth is a serious pain in the ass. He can repeatedly chain it without having to worry about being shield grabbed or sex kicked out of it (since Marth's jump is faster than Link's, Link cannot shield cancel without eating shdfa). Link's projectiles can be nullified by a Marth who knows what he's doing, and therefore they are quite difficult to use offensively (aside from combo extensions). Getting around Marth's sword tip is key to beating him, but depending on the playstyle of the Marth, it can be easy or difficult. I think Marth could beat Link with shdfa's and finish with a spike or f-smash after he's carried Link over to the edge of the stage. There is a theory I have that might work, but I'm unsure as I haven't tested it.

If a Marth does a shdfa and Link shields the first hit, then side-steps the second attack, I think he would be at a frame disadvantage and would either get grabbed or or shdfa'ed if the Marth decided to do it again (since f-air combos into itself nicely against Link and many other characters). If you timed it just right, I think you might be able to get a jab or two, but your throw following the double-A would probably get cancelled by Marth's grab, or he would take to the air or side-step before it would reach him. It all depends on reflexes, really, and that's why I don't like using theories like this...

So I guess in the end, I don't know how to play against a jumpy Marth. For any other Marth, Link has a good chance to get around all of his attacks, it's just that f-air that really gives Link trouble due to its speed, range, and priority.

[ILLiterate]

let's all go to the tourney... (http://ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=91448)

[Garde]

I would love to, except there are a few extenuating circumstances that make it not possible for me to go.

1. I'm actually not in SLO (I'm down in SD this year).

2. I don't play competitively anymore, so it would be a terrible waste of money and time commuting all the way up to SJ with this little notice.

3. I am not in the financial situation to afford something like this right now. :/

If it were only the first 2, then you bet your ass I'd be there in a heartbeat. The short on money problem sort of prevents me from doing anything fun, though... At this point, I'm just saving up so I can visit my girlfriend for winter break.

[Global-Trance]

I was watching my vids back on page 78. I just realized how much I sucked back then compared to now.

[Noodle]

I was watching my vids back on page 78. I just realized how much I sucked back then compared to now.
How about a new video?

[ILLiterate]

Hows about a TRAINING video, for people who SUX and can't read

[Absolute Symmetry]

Advanced tactics vids

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiZLs2doK8E

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFmGIOcWdsM

Advanced How to play 1
The basics
---Short Hop
---Fast fall
---L-Cancel
---Combination (SHFFLing)
Advanced Dodges
---wavedashin
---wavelanding

Advanced How to play 2
Shielding Is Good
---Shield Grabbing
---Up Smash / B out of a Shield
---Waveshielding
Recovery Techniques
---Teching - Standing
---Rolling
---Ground
---Wall
---Wall Jump
---Edge Tech
Edge Techniques
---Edge Hogging
---Edge Hopping
---Edge Wavedash

Advanced How to play 3
Dash Techniques
---Dash Dancing
---Dash Canceling
---Pivot
Jump Canceling
---JC Grab And Up Smash
---Chain Throwing
Directional Influence
---Directional Influence (DI)
---Crouch canceling
Aditional Techniques
---Wall Jump
---Meteor Canceling
---Reversing Aerial Neutral B
---Powershield

Well EazyP you said training video so I just looked for the advanced tactics vids since that is probably what people will need to practice on. I'm pretty much a newb at this forum regarding the actual remixes and things but at least I'm no noob at smash :D

These vids should help for those who are reading impaired >_> (hopefully?)

[Global-Trance]

Good thing there is no video on mindgames in Smash. Otherwise, the noobs would start to think they are good because they know how to do those techniques.

[ILLiterate]

I ment a video on just Falco, but whatever

Also, anyone can learn mindgames from watching a good match

MINDGAMES!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrxVXHXHVcc)

[WOT~]

Mindgames are the basis of my entire game.
I use Jigglypuff, and I tend to play really defensively, and counter my opponents' attacks.
I also take advantage of when they're distracted (if I'm fighting 3 or 4 people) with the Rollout attack.

[Broken]

I ment a video on just Falco, but whatever

Also, anyone can learn mindgames from watching a good match

MINDGAMES!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrxVXHXHVcc)

<3 that video.
"Supa wavedash; that's mindgames right there son!"
"Les' goooooo!!!"

Oh, and I borrowed smash again from another friend (because I'm to cheap to fork over $20 for my own copy. Darn you gamestop...), so I should be getting back into smashing soon.

[giga]

I was watching my vids back on page 78. I just realized how much I sucked back then compared to now.
How about a new video?

[TheCatPhysician]

I was watching my vids back on page 78. I just realized how much I sucked back then compared to now.
How about a new video?wait, did you get banned again

[Arek the Absolute]

Wes....last time I saw that fool was three years ago. is he gonna be there at the tourny this weekend?

[ILLiterate]

Since PC Chris is coming from NY, Bob$ & The Germ are comming, S-Royal is comming from Japan and out of retirement...

There's a good chance, but I haven't seen any exact forum posts that say he would

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Just got home from my first tourney. Got my ass handed to me, but had a blast anyway. Should have vids soon.

[Fishy]

Does anyone know if there are ever any UK tournies? I've never heard of any around here, which is a shame cause it sounds like good fun.

Who d'you play as tauce?

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Fox is my best, though I also occasionally play as Doc or Luigi.

I'm thinking about trying to brush up on my Luigi skills, since people are always caught by surprise and don't know how to deal with my Luigi.

[Broken]

Fox is my best, though I also occasionally play as Doc or Luigi.

I'm thinking about trying to brush up on my Luigi skills, since people are always caught by surprise and don't know how to deal with my Luigi.

Random Question: Can you waveshine with Fox? I've recently been trying it out and...well I suck at it. It's just something I'm doing to keep me busy because there's no one to play around me. But anyway, if anyone has any pointers feel free to educate this newblet.

[TheCatPhysician]

Fox is my best, though I also occasionally play as Doc or Luigi.

I'm thinking about trying to brush up on my Luigi skills, since people are always caught by surprise and don't know how to deal with my Luigi.

Random Question: Can you waveshine with Fox? I've recently been trying it out and...well I suck at it. It's just something I'm doing to keep me busy because there's no one to play around me. But anyway, if anyone has any pointers feel free to educate this newblet.

Are you talking about consecutively waveshining someone across the stage, or just wavedashing out of a shine? Waveshining consecutively is very difficult; I can waveshine characters like Peach all the way across FD somewhat consistantly when I'm just practicing, but I can barely ever do it more than 2 or 3 times in a real match, so I don't really bother with it. I probably should though, because even though it's only useful in a few matchups, it can be extremely useful in those matches if you can do it consistantly, because theoretically every shine can lead to them off the stage. And of course there are a lot of ways to get into the first shine: mainly down airs, and any time you do an aerial and it gets shielded, then the person tries to shield grab. That's because assuming you L cancel all your aerials, every time you do an aerial that gets shielded, you can shine out of it immediately, and it's quicker than the amount of time it takes for them to shield grab. So if they ever try to shield grab your aerials, they get shined, and the combos start from there.

Not being able to waveshine characters like Peach all the way across the stage is certainly not the end of the world, though, and it's not something you should worry about until you have mastered all the more important things with Fox. But if you can't do regular waveshines, and by that I just mean wavedashing out of a shine, that is much more basic and much more necessary. After shining a character who doesn't fall from the shine, and doesn't slide too far, you just follow them right along with the wavedash and get to choose any move you want to do to them, probably the most important being grab. So as long as you have good combos up your sleeve for the character at whatever percent they're at, every shine leads you to that combo. And as I said earlier, every successful down air or attempted-shield-grabbed aerial can lead to a shine.

It's not as useful for fighting characters who fall from the shine, like Falco for example, but it's still really useful. First of all you can tech-chase from it, and second for some characters (I know it at least works on Falco) you can waveshine directly into a jab, and if you wavedash far and quick enough, they will be forced to stand up from being down before they can do anything else, and from there you can start combos; the one that started the whole thing about using the jab to force someone to stand up out of the shine is the Thunder's Combo, which is really hard but really awesome when pulled off. You can find out about it in the Fox Character Specific forum on Smashboards.

Oh and for actually practicing waveshining: if you're just practicing doing single waveshines, the best advice I can give is just think of doing a wavedash seperately from the shine. The way I do it is after the shine, return the control stick to it's neutral position and then do a wavedash, so it's just like doing a wavedash by itself. If you're trying to waveshine consecutively, here's what I did: Go to training mode on FD, pick Peach or Link for the computer. Do a shine, and just wait as long as you want. Then do a wavedash with the control stick as close to the side as you can, and then wait after you did the wavedash. If your wavedash was good enough, you should be able to shine them again from where you ended up without moving again. After you can do that, just keep on speeding up the process until you wavedash soon enough to have to jump-cancel your shine, and then until you wavedash immediately out of the shine. Then from there you can work on doing it continuously, the fun part. :)
Hope that was helpful.

Edit: heh, I just realized you probably only need the last paragraph. Oh well.

[CE]

GUYS GUYS

http://www.thewiire.com/news/538/1/Nintendo_World_to_Host_Smash_Bros_Footage

New footage ahoy! This doesn't mean we'll be getting trailers NOW, but soon. They'll be revealing a new character.

Now I wanna fire up a debate.

Who here thinks Sonic should be in it? I have a personal thing against the NEW BADASS YEAH sonic from the 3D games, so I can't really comment on this since my opinion would be FUCK NO. But what about it? Also, since the chances are high that it's another Konami character, start digging through your archive of old-konami-character-that-was-in-a-nintendo-game-somewhere. If you have one.

My personal bet is on a Castlevania character, which would kick copious ammounts of ass since Castlevania is one of my favorite series. Maybe one of the Belmonts, either Simon or Julius, but it'll most likely be Alucard. C'mon, you know you wanna use that white boy body do deal the pain don't you?

Alternativly, Liquid or Ocelot aren't far off. They could just go the clone way to give more depth to Snake's single player and missions and whatnot.

Personally:

Top contenders:

-Alucard
-Liquid

Wait for it... wait for it...



SPECULATE!

[linkspast]

Yeha this is what have been wating for.... all this fighting tatics... way over my head, I just play... and win... But it better not be sonic... How about I dont know I want a real new character not that zero suit samus crap.... No clones I want some one as cool or slightly less cooler than snake (no one is cooler than snake.... Woot.

[CE]

Uh slight problem. TheWiire says that they'll show gameplay of the new characters like Wario, ZSS and Snake, but gonintendo, in the link posted in the Wii thread where I got the original news from, say it'll have a new character.

Personally, I think there's been a translation error here. Since I trust The Wiire, im inclined to believe that they are correct... who knows.

http://gonintendo.com/?p=7628

[Wipomatic]

Well, anything new at this point is welcome. It's been a long time since we've had anything new. And also, Sonic is awesome, so he should be in.

[Calpis]

Anyone else think that MegaMan is a likely candidate for a new character?

[ILLiterate]

Anyone else think that MegaMan is a likely candidate for a new character?Would probably end up being a Samus clone, and they're already Zero Suit Samus in there, so no don't think so

[Broken]

Anyone else think that MegaMan is a likely candidate for a new character?Would probably end up being a Samus clone, and they're already Zero Suit Samus in there, so no don't think so

My friend was telling me that zero suit Samus would only appear if your regular samus gets F'ed up by something like the acid in Planet Zebes. Can anyone confirm that or was I blatantly lied to?

p.s. Thanks for the info CatPhysician. I probably should head back to smash forms for some more info, but I hesitate to because the information there is a little hard to grasp sometimes.

And if were character speculating....How about Argus/Dart/that other guy (all three berserkers) from Fire Emblem?

[KWarp]

Ooh! New footage soon. Nice. :D

I'm not expecting much. Chances are by now Sakurai has a bit more than half the game done. I think we'll see new environments in the new video this Friday, but I have my doubts as far as characters go. Not getting my hopes up. >.>

[Strike911]

I know it'll probably NEVER Happen, but I'd love to see Sparkster, the Rocket Knight, show up, seeing as how he too is Konami. But you know, really... I know whoever the outside characters are that Nintendo goes with will be awesome. So Good times. :) I'm very happy to hear a new vid is on the way... more info! Yess. Hopefully, it gets me as excited (and surprised) as I was when I saw Solid Snake in the trailer the first time. I was so damned excited. Let's see what happens this time... probably not that huge, but hell, whatevah!

I really wouldn't mind some Fire Emblem characters. There are some really cool characters in those games... sadly they'd all probably be pretty similar to Marth and Roy, but heck, there are still some cool chars in those games, as I said.

And really ... I'm seriously looking forward to hearing the Metal Gear Solid theme in that Smash Bros. orchestra style. :) Hmm... Liquid would be an excellent alternate color scheme for Snake. :)

[Arek the Absolute]

Why am I expecting this new footage to only be about 1/2 minute long D:

[Strike911]

Why am I expecting this new footage to only be about 1/2 minute long D:

I think you might be on to something there. Yeah, watch it be like a really bad fan-trailer using parts of the original trailer to Linkin Park music.

no lie,

[Sahaquiel Delta]

I find it's easier to keep a strict policy of belief. Unless Nintendo says it, or many major gaming news companies say it's confirmed, I'm inclined not to believe it.

I've been wrong before, but...

Seeing as how our good friend Masahiro Sakurai posted on his own blog that there wouldn't be a new character and such, I'm once again inclined to not believe it.

On another note, I doubt Sonic or Mega Man are going to be playable. Highly doubt it. For the record, I also do think that Zero Suit Samus is rather kickass--screw all that think otherwise.

[Calpis]

I find it's easier to keep a strict policy of belief. Unless Nintendo says it, or many major gaming news companies say it's confirmed, I'm inclined not to believe it.

I've been wrong before, but...

Seeing as how our good friend Masahiro Sakurai posted on his own blog that there wouldn't be a new character and such, I'm once again inclined to not believe it.

On another note, I doubt Sonic or Mega Man are going to be playable. Highly doubt it. For the record, I also do think that Zero Suit Samus is rather kickass--screw all that think otherwise.I would have agreed with you before they announced Solid Snake being in Brawl. I know that this doesn't mean that they're gonna add in tons of new characters (Alucard pu-leeze) but in my eyes the chances of adding in another non-Nintendo character are looking better.


...or has this already been discussed here?

[CE]

Anyone else think that MegaMan is a likely candidate for a new character?Would probably end up being a Samus clone, and they're already Zero Suit Samus in there, so no don't think so

My friend was telling me that zero suit Samus would only appear if your regular samus gets F'ed up by something like the acid in Planet Zebes. Can anyone confirm that or was I blatantly lied to?

p.s. Thanks for the info CatPhysician. I probably should head back to smash forms for some more info, but I hesitate to because the information there is a little hard to grasp sometimes.

And if were character speculating....How about Argus/Dart/that other guy (all three berserkers) from Fire Emblem?

The Samus thing is true. Once she uses something like her new "hyper" move, or maybe an extremely strong beam, or other criteria, she'll lose the suit and turn into ZSS. I don't know if she can get her suit back (think Zelda/Sheik) but probably not. We'll have to wait and see if this fits into gameplay well, but since Shiek did so well, and Melee broke so many barriers the original had... ok, wrong way there. But you get it.

[darthseb]

Captain Syup FTW!

Favourite Moments:
-Doing the black hole glitch with my bro.
-Finding out the Sonic code wasn't real.

[watkinzez]

http://au.wii.ign.com/articles/743/743808p1.html
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/moku111/3112.jpg

Stop playing with our minds and post the damn thing.

[Calpis]

I know I already posted it in the Wii thread, but they've got a shaky cam version of the trailer at http://www.gametrailers.com/

[StarLars]

Anyone else think that MegaMan is a likely candidate for a new character?Would probably end up being a Samus clone, and they're already Zero Suit Samus in there, so no don't think so

I like to think MegaMan would be an excellent addition to the, appearently, growing list of potential new characters. IF he's gonna be a clone, i think it would be more likely that he would be a Kirby clone, seeing how he's copying the abilities of his enemies.
But i still think MegaMan would have enough original moves of his own. Think about dashing forward or dashing in the air (like the dodge move but rather for outmoving someone).

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I know I already posted it in the Wii thread, but they've got a shaky cam version of the trailer at http://www.gametrailers.com/

OH SNAP!

[genghisdani]

Anyone else think that MegaMan is a likely candidate for a new character?Would probably end up being a Samus clone, and they're already Zero Suit Samus in there, so no don't think so

I like to think MegaMan would be an excellent addition to the, appearently, growing list of potential new characters. IF he's gonna be a clone, i think it would be more likely that he would be a Kirby clone, seeing how he's copying the abilities of his enemies.
But i still think MegaMan would have enough original moves of his own. Think about dashing forward or dashing in the air (like the dodge move but rather for outmoving someone).
Oooh... You make a good point... I could see him being a complex mix of (I'm talking SSBM characters here) Fox, Samus, & Kirby. I'd actually be really interested in that idea.

You know what I wanna see? A comeback of the character entry moves before the match. That would be really nice; especially if MegaMan actually did make it.

[Ninja-san]

Has nintendo mentioned who the composer will be for SSB? The trailers music got me all excited for Uematsu.

[!Nekko!]

I know I already posted it in the Wii thread, but they've got a shaky cam version of the trailer at http://www.gametrailers.com/

OH SNAP!

Snake + RPG = Fucking win.

[Zeklan]

I like fox's new look.

Has anyone noticed the other changes?

He uses a different fighting stance now. Jeet-kun do.
He always holds his blaster in hand.

I think they completely redid Fox.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I think they completely redid Fox.

;_;

[CE]

Aight, new trailer and here are my thoughts on it. And by this I mean analysis.

It starts off with Mario, Kirby, Twilight Princess Link and Pikachu fighting in the stage we all know by now, the one that looks like a modification of Battlefield. The thing to notice here (besides the omg graphics) is the fact that while the camera pans to follow the characters, the background shifts, proving that it is now a fully 3D rendered background. Yeah. Then fight on what I think is the early metaknight stage or something.

Then Mario is shown running on a Mario Kart stage, with platforms similar to the F-Zero challenge in Melee's Adventure Mode.

Following comes Pikachu, in what I think is a Yoshi's Island stage, complete with jittery crayon-simulating backgrounds. It cuts to a shot of what seems like Pikachu... crawling (?) in the Mario Kart stage as Shy Guys zip by him. Looks like a new take on the classic Melee F-zero stage.


Following him comes favorite marshmellow Kirby who is shown in the Yoshi's Island map whopping Mario and Pikachu, and finally, crouched as Pikachu approaches him crawling. This is proof that in Brawl you can walk while crouched. Good stuff.

Handsome boy Link is shown in a bunch of menacing, yet little move-set revealing poses in the supposed Fire Emblem stage, the Metaknight stage, and what I assume is the Pokemon Stadium.

Tagging along is Wario who is shown in his WarioWare outfit. He's seen running in a peculiar way and then turning around. He runs funny. Fact. And promptly headbutts/falls into Pikachu. He kicks more ass in convenient A-moves and then is sworded in the back by good old Metaknight.

He's shown looking suspicious in the Fire Emblem, castle and then in his own stage, dodges Kirby and gives him a flurry attack. Finally you can see him hovering with his wings. Probably like Peach, only with no limit and with a downward vector. Nice.

Next up: Pit. He's shown in a map I cannot identify, but it probably is his own. Then he's seen running in what people say is inside Fire Emblem stage or a Castlevania Stage.

Then comes Zero Suit Samus, which looks a bit like Shiek and finally, and I cannot describe just how cool he plays, Snake. Go see him. Dayum.

What follows is a flurry of shots ranging from outerspace maps with what seems to be low gravity, the Pit stage, located in a Parthenon-like setting with features destructible platforms, the Yoshi Island map changing from noon-setting to a sunset-y one smoothly, an outside MGS stage (think the initial part of MGS1) and the title.

And finally, Fox, with a StarFox Command look, badass like hell, in an awesome space level. And I mean awesome. The improved background, which is Earth makes it looks incredible.

Overall, fucking win.

I'll be posting a list of perceptible changes later

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Pit actually looks like a pretty sweet character from what few shots there were of him. Fast runner, multiple double-jumps (and they're big, double jumps, not wimpy floats like kirby or jigglypuff), fast attacks.

I hope they de-nerf kirby; he was awesome in original smash, and sucked in melee.

As for fox, they better not nerf him, or I'll be pissed.

[Antipode]

Damn, just saw the trailer.

Wario will be MINE.
Everything he did in that trailer was all kinds of awesome.

[CE]

List of overall changes introduced by the new trailer:

-Backgrounds are now rendered in full 3D, and change accordingly with the camera's panning.

-Stage's looks can now change, either mid-battle or as an extra option. Look: two versions of the modded Battlefield stage (noon and sunset) and two versions of the Yoshi's Island Stage (noon and sunset).

-Some, if not all characters can now walk while crouched. If this is triggered by a button-combo or by simply walking forward while crouched, it's impossible to tell, since Pikachu just does it while Snake does the patented SNAKE ROLL AND DROP to do it.

-Wario features strange moves. Think of him as the bastard gameplay child of Game and Watch and Luigi.

-Metaknight can plane into descent. And deliver some mean A attacks.

-Zero Suit Samus seems to move a bit like Shiek does.

-Snake's basic A attacks are his triple combo from MGS1 and 2. He can roll and drop into crawling. It seems like one of his down+A attacks involve taking out a rocket launcher, pointing it downwards and hitting the opponent with a blast for a low-blow.

-Fox now has a new stance and keeps his blaster out at all times. Also, something that resembles a mine can be seen attached to his belt. He seems to be totally re-done, probably due to balancing issues.


Stage Related Changes:

-Mario Kart Stage, similar to F-Zero Mute City, with Shy Guys in karts.

-Yoshi's Island Stage.

-Pit has a Parthenon-like stage. It features destructible platforms. These, when destroyed, are replaced by a cloud of smaller size.

-Pokemon Stadium now has actual stands. Not a gigantic bottomless pit.

-In the scene where Metaknight appears. Something seems to be floating in the sky behind Wario in a yellow bubble...(Bigfoot says it's the moon. I'm embarassed.)

-When Zero Suit Samus appears, she's standing in some kind of sky stage...

-There is an Outer Space Starfox stage, and it might or might not have low gravity.

-There are at least two Metal Gear Solid stages. They seem to be from Metal Gear Solid 1, one of them inside the base and the other on the outside, maybe near the helipad.

[Penfold]

Mario Kart stage FTW!

Also, their Fox model is looking pretty kickass IMO. Damn, can't wait for this one!

[Bigfoot]

-In the scene where Metaknight appears. Something seems to be floating in the sky behind Wario in a yellow bubble...


I believe that's the moon.

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

Oh god, if they nerf Fox like they nerfed Kirby, I will fucking hate them forever.

[CE]

Personally, I'd like to see a slight nerfing of Fox and a slight unnerfing of Kirby.

[avaris]

Sweetness, did anyone notice that Snake got an eyeful of Samus?

Kirby was so much better in the original smash bros than in melee. Hopefully he's decent in this one.

Yeah Fox and Falco were a lil too powerful in melee. As soon as you learned all the moves and became comfortable you could own people, especially in one on one situations.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Oh god, if they nerf Fox like they nerfed Kirby, I will fucking hate them forever.

Ya rly.

I wouldn't mind them making his upsmash a bit less powerfull, but otherwise I really don't think they should change fox much if at all.

Kirby really does need to be denerfed.

[Strike911]

Oh god, if they nerf Fox like they nerfed Kirby, I will fucking hate them forever.

I'd imagine all the characters are being re-balanced, so all those highteir characters are probably going to be downgraded, low tiers will be upgraded.

My guess. seems logical.

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

Those tiers are nonsense. They're based on character speeds, not which character is betterzomglol.

They better not ruin him, so help me god... I've used Fox as my #1 since the original Smash Bros. I used to be a Mario-man myself, but ya just gotta admit that speed pwnz. I'd rather they make the other characters have better recovery time.

[Arek the Absolute]

Meta shall forever be mine.

[Strike911]

Tiers are not entirely based on character speeds, it just happens that most of the fast characters tend to be in high tiers...

I think the concept of the tiers isn't entirely accurate however, as some characters are merely unbalanced... I believe Fox is the posterchild for one of those characters.

I think i'm going to give Solid Snake a spin whenever I first get this game. Metaknight does indeed look sweet.

I'm so happy that their is a Metal Gear level from Shadow Moses!! That makes me really stoked, I never thought I'd see a MGS level. haha. ^_^

OH BY THE WAY EVERYONE, at the end of the trailer in
JApanese it says 2007 then some writing.

Does anyone know what that says?

[Arek the Absolute]

WHY ARE ALL THE LEVELS IN THE TRAILER THE SAME AS BATTLEFIELD
D:
THIS DOES NOT LOOK PLEASING

[CE]

OH BY THE WAY EVERYONE, at the end of the trailer in
JApanese it says 2007 then some writing.

Does anyone know what that says?

Coming 2007

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Oh god, if they nerf Fox like they nerfed Kirby, I will fucking hate them forever.

I'd imagine all the characters are being re-balanced, so all those highteir characters are probably going to be downgraded, low tiers will be upgraded.

My guess. seems logical.

What they should do is upgrade the lowtier characters without downgrading the hightier ones. Imagine a game with 30 characters who are all as good as fox, marth, or shiek?

[Red Shadow]

maaaaaaaaan why did they have to go and make fox look like the dumb ds game's design?

oh well. guess it would bother me more if i liked to play as him

[ILLiterate]

From the looks of things, Snake looks like he has some bad moves. He's slow, but if Lag C's are still in, this won't be much of a problem. A little charging swift kick and some electric powers seem to help. Still looks D:

Metaknight looks like the obvious bad ass with his crazy A combos. The game looks much more combo oriented as well, not to mention characters where making MAJOR use of short hops, proving that the things we love have a good chance of staying int he game.

WARIO LOOKS EPIC. Everything from the run, to the attacks is great. He seems to have good knockback as well, which will make him a favorite of mine. Not to mention the expected fast falling of a fatty.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

The more I watch that trailer, the better pit looks. Fast movement, fast attacks, multiple high double jumps.

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

I can't wait to test out the new Fox, Metaknight, and Pit. Metaknight and Pit just look so fun because of the A-combos.

[Utopoeia]

A little charging swift kick and some electric powers seem to help.
If you didn't notice, the "electric powers" you speak of appeared when ANY character attacked another, along with a slight pause, a la the "hit lag" that occured when a character was hit in the original Smash Bros.

Also, the new Fox looks dumb, dumb, dumb.
http://eu.unmod.org/foxsidebyside.jpg

[Kureejii Lea]

A little charging swift kick and some electric powers seem to help.
If you didn't notice, the "electric powers" you speak of appeared when ANY character attacked another, along with a slight pause, a la the "hit lag" that occured when a character was hit in the original Smash Bros.

Also, the new Fox looks dumb, dumb, dumb.
http://eu.unmod.org/foxsidebyside.jpg

Yeah, he kind looks like he flew too close to a black hole.

[linkspast]

he dosent look that bad.

I hope they move your lives to the top of the screen, at the bottom it got in the way on occasion.

[Linkjing Donuts]

he dosent look that bad.

I hope they move your lives to the top of the screen, at the bottom it got in the way on occasion.
It'll be even worse if it's on top. That's my combo space with Sheik. Not to mention how many people will be flying everywhere above the platforms. Barely anything happens beneath the stage, so that's where the % damage goes.

[Wipomatic]

WHY ARE ALL THE LEVELS IN THE TRAILER THE SAME AS BATTLEFIELD
D:
THIS DOES NOT LOOK PLEASING

They probably don't want to show too much off in the trailer. I hope that's what they're doing, otherwise it might get a bit samey.

[CE]

A little charging swift kick and some electric powers seem to help.
If you didn't notice, the "electric powers" you speak of appeared when ANY character attacked another, along with a slight pause, a la the "hit lag" that occured when a character was hit in the original Smash Bros.

Also, the new Fox looks dumb, dumb, dumb.
http://eu.unmod.org/foxsidebyside.jpg

Yeah, he kind looks like he flew too close to a black hole.

Meh, I hated his 2D look in Command but he's not that bad in 3D. I don't usually play with him anyway.

Also, goddammit people you all KNOW Twilight Princess Link is the coolest character around now!

http://gallery.legendofzelda.com/albums/E3/SSBB_link.png

Damn right! Also Wario's awesome. Which is expected from my favorite Mario character. Nintendo needs to make more Wario Lands.

[KakTheInfected]

I hope they bring some characters from Fire Emblem 4 to the game. Marth is cool, but Roy...he was just thrown in their to advertise the game that was coming out at the time.

[genghisdani]

I don't care what Fox looks like, personally. I've never really thought he looked exceptionally cool, so this is just another semi-cool iteration to me. I'm still praying that you can change the characters' whole costume, not just a simple recolor.

On the whole nerfing/de-nerfing issue - I didn't mind the balance issues that much in SSBM, but I rarely got a chance to play against people my skill level anyway; besides, I haven't played in a long while and now I suck. The only thing I hope they DON'T do regarding nerfing, is nerf everyone to an equally very-nerfed level; I've seen it happen before in a fighting game series, I don't want to see it here.

My observation, after some consideration, is that it appears Meta-Knight's sword has its classic "stunning" ability (it reminds me of Maxi's nunchaku from Soul Calibur II); my guess would be, then, that the damage caused by his sword is relatively low, because you have the capability of doing like 100 hits right there.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Hey, anybody notice that roll dodges appear to be a hell of a lot faster in this one? Like, as fast as a wavedash would be.

[avaris]

I think the whole game itself looks faster...sweet :D .
Eventually after about 1,000,000 hours playin melee your hands started to move faster than the controller and game could handle. I bet that's prob why alot of people mainly played with only the fastest players later in the game. The slower players just felt too slow.

They just did way too many contrasting colours on fox. If they took away his green eyes and made them brown I bet his new getup would be more bearable. Or replaced all the red with white like he use to be.

[darthseb]

I think the new McCloud looks too thick in the belly. Also, Captain Syrup FTW!

[ILLiterate]

I hope they bring some characters from Fire Emblem 4 to the game. Marth is cool, but Roy...he was just thrown in their to advertise the game that was coming out at the time.The stage that is behind Link when he showed up looked more like a Fire Emblem stage than a Zelda stage

[I-n-j-i-n]

That video struck me as incredibly boring. Not such a bad thing that it was, but they didn't show any quirky weapons, possible super movies and etc. It just seemed a bit conservative. And I wonder if they're going to release a new video whenever they complete a new character model.

[Strike911]

And I wonder if they're going to release a new video whenever they complete a new character model.

I was thinking that too when I saw the video.

Hmm, so hmm, if we guess there are 20 more characters then... we only have 20 more videos to go! Woohoo!

Here's hoping the next video isn't as conservative. ALTHOUGH, there was a bit of information, just not nearly as much as I would have liked to receive... crawling looks like a neat little addition... I don't know how useful it'll be, but interesting, maybe you can crawl under the line of fire from guns... *shrugs*

I want to see some new weapons and items.

[Global-Trance]

Just made a new Smash related sig. :)

P.S. Can't stand the new looks for any of the Star Fox guys... that is from any of the new Star Fox games.

[Inimitable]

I don't mind the new look for Fox and ilk at all; you won't have much time to look a them onscreen anyway. Most of you will be too busy getting OWNED.

[CE]

And I wonder if they're going to release a new video whenever they complete a new character model.

I was thinking that too when I saw the video.

Hmm, so hmm, if we guess there are 20 more characters then... we only have 20 more videos to go! Woohoo!

Here's hoping the next video isn't as conservative. ALTHOUGH, there was a bit of information, just not nearly as much as I would have liked to receive... crawling looks like a neat little addition... I don't know how useful it'll be, but interesting, maybe you can crawl under the line of fire from guns... *shrugs*

I want to see some new weapons and items.

Uh, you know how when you take a hit while crouching in Melee you don't fly off as much? I'm guessing crawling does the same. More stability less speed.

[Inimitable]

More stability less speed.
Seems kind of a useless addition to me. Even the average player has a reaction time good enough to see "crawling" in action. My guess is it's a Snake-only move.

[CE]

More stability less speed.
Seems kind of a useless addition to me. Even the average player has a reaction time good enough to see "crawling" in action. My guess is it's a Snake-only move.

The average player also doesn't use crouch that often. It's just a neat-o gameplay addition.

[Funkoid]

More stability less speed.
Seems kind of a useless addition to me. Even the average player has a reaction time good enough to see "crawling" in action. My guess is it's a Snake-only move.

The average player also doesn't use crouch that often. It's just a neat-o gameplay addition.

Yeah, I dunno if it serves TOO much purpose, but just imagine a fighting game without a crouching ability. What is this, Urban Champion?

*Stares at name* Technodrome! Let's kick shell!

[Wolfstan]

Alright, guys. I never thought to ask here about SSBM tips, but here goes.

I've been Smashing it up with the guys in my dorm, (first time playing anyone outside my family, we're all fairly evenly matched) and we're about to hold a dorm-wide tournament.

I've been playing this one guy who uses Dr. Mario and Pikachu, and ALWAYS uses their down-Smash attacks at every possible moment. I consider myself a good player, though I can't L-Cancel very well yet, and my wavedash is far from good. Doc's and Pika's down smash devastates me when I try to get past his guard, no matter how much I wavedash and roll away. He just casually walks up, and WHAM- downsmashed, even when I roll away. Part of this, I think, is because both characters down smash attacks have what can be best described as an "instant" effect, in both directions. Doc's down-S is FAST, Pika's is seemingly instant and has a cyclone-effect. The thing that frustrates me is, I can hit the guy with well-connected combos, but all he does is spam his smash attacks and own me. I mainly use Yoshi, the Links, Zelda-Shiek, and to a lesser extent Fox. I'm usually able to defeat him with the Links, more so YOUNG Link, because he has more mobility than Adult. I have trouble hitting opponents with Adult's Spin-Atk on the ground.

His pattern is usually something like- Jump towards me with <-A-> Aerial, I evade or hit him, he spams down-smash, I get hit 70% of the time, he continues to stalk me using Smash attacks to keep me off the ground... This continues with some variation, but that's largely his pattern with both characters.

He's definitely beatable, but it bothers me that Doc can KO so easily with his Smash attacks. It definitely requires more skill to use Mario compared to Doc. I just can't seem to stop this guy 100% of the time when he uses Doc.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Use projectiles or other attacks you can use from outside his range.

Shield grab.

Use aerial attacks.

I'd have to see videos of you playing him to give any more advice than that.

[Global-Trance]

If you can't L-Cancel, wavedash, or avoid down-smashes you know are coming, I wouldn't begin to consider myself good.

To help fighting someone that just walks up to you with down-smash, I'd use any range attacks you have such as projectiles. Short hop neutral A's while using spacing manuevers will help too. Neutral A's in the air tend to have priority over everything else so it could potentially stop down-smashes if you come from above and hit with it, even on short hop.

In general, just play smarter. You can forget about the technical stuff. Without being able to play smart, wavedash and L-Cancel doesn't even help that much. I four-stocked someone that said I sucked so I played smart against him and shut him up for the rest of the night. :lol:

[Arek the Absolute]

hey gt
i liek yoru siga

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

I hope Master Hand does something with the Wiimote in this one.

[Arek the Absolute]

That would be very creative if they were to have him wield it in many different styles. Say for example, he uses slashes as if it was a sword, turns it into a spear and gabs at you etc etc etc.
Doesn't sound that good in text, but that is where your imagination comes in :D

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

It just seemed appropriate to me with this new theme Nintendo has going, and the fact that Master Hand is, well, a hand.

[RepressedChaos]

I'm confused about the presence of Solid Snake... doesn't he belong to Sony? :?

[CE]

I'm confused about the presence of Solid Snake... doesn't he belong to Sony? :?

Konami owns him actually. Kojima productions to be more precise. If Kojima want's him in, he'll be in.

Also, you guys just found out Master Hand's attack pattern. Wiimote. Genius.

[Bigfoot]

I'm confused about the presence of Solid Snake... doesn't he belong to Sony? :?

I think the story went something like this:

The maker of MGS and SSB know eachother quite well. Maker of MGS wanted to let them put Snake in Melee, but there wasn't enough time. Now that there is another SSB, Snake is going to be a character.


I could be wrong though because I forgot where I heard this.

Sorry I'm not good with remembering famous names of Japanese people.

[ILLiterate]

I'm confused about the presence of Solid Snake... doesn't he belong to Sony? :?

I think the story went something like this:

The maker of MGS and SSB know eachother quite well. Maker of MGS wanted to let them put Snake in Melee, but there wasn't enough time. Now that there is another SSB, Snake is going to be a character.


I could be wrong though because I forgot where I heard this.

Sorry I'm not good with remembering famous names of Japanese people.Maybe they're friends now, but the way I heard it, Kojima just called and asked him if he could put Snake in the next Smash, but he had to tell him they where too late in the process to put Snake in. Otherwise, it's the same

[linkspast]

do ya think this will be the first game ot be online?

[Global-Trance]

I'm confused about the presence of Solid Snake... doesn't he belong to Sony? :?

I think the story went something like this:

The maker of MGS and SSB know eachother quite well. Maker of MGS wanted to let them put Snake in Melee, but there wasn't enough time. Now that there is another SSB, Snake is going to be a character.


I could be wrong though because I forgot where I heard this.

Sorry I'm not good with remembering famous names of Japanese people.Maybe they're friends now, but the way I heard it, Kojima just called and asked him if he could put Snake in the next Smash, but he had to tell him they where too late in the process to put Snake in. Otherwise, it's the same

He was actually supposed to be in Melee but Kojima was way too late for that one. So he's in this one.

[The Author]

I'm confused about the presence of Solid Snake... doesn't he belong to Sony? :?

I think the story went something like this:

The maker of MGS and SSB know eachother quite well. Maker of MGS wanted to let them put Snake in Melee, but there wasn't enough time. Now that there is another SSB, Snake is going to be a character.


I could be wrong though because I forgot where I heard this.

Sorry I'm not good with remembering famous names of Japanese people.Maybe they're friends now, but the way I heard it, Kojima just called and asked him if he could put Snake in the next Smash, but he had to tell him they where too late in the process to put Snake in. Otherwise, it's the same

He was actually supposed to be in Melee but Kojima was way too late for that one. So he's in this one.

And Snake belongs to Konami.

First appearance was on the MSX2, and eventually was ported on the NES. In fact, Metal Gear 2 was exclusive to the nintendo, and was apparently not released in Japan. There is more to metal gear than the playstation eye candy.

[ILLiterate]

do ya think this will be the first game ot be online?No the first REAL online game was Unreal Tournament

If it isn't online, then...well...Wii just destroyed themselves

[JoeFu]

do ya think this will be the first game ot be online?No the first REAL online game was Unreal Tournament

If it isn't online, then...well...Wii just destroyed themselves

Well, it has to be pretty hard to make this game play online without any lag whatsoever. So much precision is needed to play when a bunch of good people get together.

[atmuh]

do ya think this will be the first game ot be online?No the first REAL online game was Unreal Tournament

If it isn't online, then...well...Wii just destroyed themselves

Well, it has to be pretty hard to make this game play online without any lag whatsoever. So much precision is needed to play when a bunch of good people get together.
my biggest fear

[darthseb]

On the Wii-Mote Master Hand idea:








Doesn't SSBB actually use the Classic controller?

[ILLiterate]

Doesn't SSBB actually use the Classic controller?If by GC controller, yes

[darthseb]

Doesn't SSBB actually use the Classic controller?If by GC controller, yes

Oh, yeah, that's right.

Konami's collaborated with Nintendo quite a chunk in the past too. Anybody thinking what I'm thinking?

Bill Rizer in SSBB!

[atmuh]

Doesn't SSBB actually use the Classic controller?If by GC controller, yes

Oh, yeah, that's right.

Konami's collaborated with Nintendo quite a chunk in the past too. Anybody thinking what I'm thinking?

Bill Rizer in SSBB!
no

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

I imagine Master Hand using a Wiimote one way or another. I doubt the player would use one, but perhaps Master Hand could wield one as a weapon :D

[Utopoeia]

Maybe he could somehow take control of your character with one.

[Murmeli Walan]

do ya think this will be the first game ot be online?

Nintendo has said that Pokemon Battle Revolution will be the first online Wii game. But they did promise that SSBB will be online just as long as they can get 4-player multiplayer perfect without lag problems.

[Utopoeia]

I thought they said they would like to have it online, but that the online feature might not support 4-player battles. Lets be honest with ourselfs, no one really will really mind that much if there are no 4-player online battles.

[Bigfoot]

I thought they said they would like to have it online, but that the online feature might not support 4-player battles. Lets be honest with ourselfs, no one really will really mind that much if there are no 4-player online battles.


Seriously, look how many people still play SSBM like it just came out last week.

[KakTheInfected]

As long as there can be Marth vs. Marth battles online, I'll be happy.

<3 Marth.

[The Mutericator]

If you can't L-Cancel, wavedash, or avoid down-smashes you know are coming, I wouldn't begin to consider myself good.

Elitist much? You don't have to do any of that (okay, maybe the last one) to be above average. And unless he's against people who can wavedash, and wavedash well, he could stand a chance.

Might I suggest taking Marth for a spin? He can counter with his Down+B, and you sound like an agility fighter (aren't we all?).

[The Mutericator]

I'm confused about the presence of Solid Snake... doesn't he belong to Sony? :?

I think the story went something like this:

The maker of MGS and SSB know eachother quite well. Maker of MGS wanted to let them put Snake in Melee, but there wasn't enough time. Now that there is another SSB, Snake is going to be a character.


I could be wrong though because I forgot where I heard this.

Sorry I'm not good with remembering famous names of Japanese people.Maybe they're friends now, but the way I heard it, Kojima just called and asked him if he could put Snake in the next Smash, but he had to tell him they where too late in the process to put Snake in. Otherwise, it's the same

I'm relatively certain that Sakurai (the director of Smash Brothers) and Kojima (the creator of MGS) have been friends for several years now, from before Melee was created.

[Global-Trance]

If you can't L-Cancel, wavedash, or avoid down-smashes you know are coming, I wouldn't begin to consider myself good.

Elitist much? You don't have to do any of that (okay, maybe the last one) to be above average. And unless he's against people who can wavedash, and wavedash well, he could stand a chance.

Might I suggest taking Marth for a spin? He can counter with his Down+B, and you sound like an agility fighter (aren't we all?).

Elitist? Not really. More like I know what it takes to be considered really good when it comes to Smash. I've played around with it enough to know. Sorry if I sounded elitist, but I'm just far too used to playing with tournament players/winners/top 20 Southern California and my friends and I know what needs to be done before you can even start to think you are good.

I just might be used to a higher standard of what "good" is based on the people I play with. I was just challenged recently by a good number of people who tell me how good they are at Smash and how they know how to wavedash and L-Cancel. I haven't said a word about where I stand in terms of skill, and that's when I 3 or 4 stock them. Kinda silly to say you're good.

Hell, I don't even tell people I'm good. At least that way I don't even need to save face when I lose.

Edit: I'm going to Ken's this weekend. Anyone else coming?

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I'm going to Ken's this weekend. Anyone else coming?

I hate you right now.

[ILLiterate]

I'm going to Ken's this weekend. Anyone else coming?

I hate you right now.I will come if you drive your asses up to North Cal you bastard >(

[Bigfoot]

I never have anyone to play SBBM with, so I don't even know what an L-cancel is(or just the terminology) :\

[darthseb]

Hey, wouldn't it be really funny if, just for the heck of it, they put in the Great Giana Sisters?

[Bigfoot]

Hey, wouldn't it be really funny if, just for the heck of it, they put in the Great Giana Sisters?

No, probably not.

[darthseb]

Hey, wouldn't it be really funny if, just for the heck of it, they put in the Great Giana Sisters?

No, probably not.

Actually, yeah, it'd probably just piss people off.

I can see it now:

OMG teh Giana sister were not Nintendo WTF

[The Author]

Hey, wouldn't it be really funny if, just for the heck of it, they put in the Great Giana Sisters?

No, probably not.

Actually, yeah, it'd probably just piss people off.

I can see it now:

OMG teh Giana sister were not Nintendo WTF


Much better.

[Jam Stunna]

As long as there can be Marth vs. Marth battles online, I'll be happy.

<3 Marth.

Yeah, I'm starting to love Marth as well. He's the perfect Peach counter.

[Utopoeia]

I think Marth is a fine role model for young homosexual men everywhere.

[Jam Stunna]

I think Marth is a fine role model for young homosexual men everywhere.

Don't hate him because he's beautiful.

Although, one of my friends has suggested that the headband Marth wears is actually a tiara.

[Dagda Mor]

Ruminations on the new trailer, reposted from the Wii thread:
• One of my only complaints with SSBM was the "feel" of the violence. The blows seemed softer, as though you were hitting the person with a well-stuffed pillow instead of a hard, blunt object like in the original. The combat in Brawl looks like it'll be a little flashier than what I've been used to, but on the whole I think the visceral feel will be an improvement over Melee.
• I wasn't sold on zero suit samus. Truth be told, a big element of this was the color scheme- I prefered the more gritty Samus seen in Metroid Prime to the bland yellow-haired version of the sequel. (Similar feelings with fox- His new look might be the biggest motivator for me to try out the new characters.) However, the clips of her fighting- and, to be honest, the determined expression- are winning me over. I'll definitely give the character a try. Although if they emphasize breast physics I'm going to hurt somebody.
• To me, the change in the music score indicates a change in the overall mood of the games. The score of the first two games was unique and reinforced the whole "What the hell is this strange new creation?" feel. With Brawl, however, it feels to me like the series has an established presence as a classic and is acknowledging that while maintaining the tongue-in-cheek feel. It's a new direction, but I don't mind.
• By the looks of it crawling just introduces a small additional dimension by letting us avoid attacks in a different manner. I mostly see myself using it to close the distance with an opponent. It'd also be nice if you can immediately crawl away after landing on the ground.
• Great to see they're still doing those "profile" clips. I loved watching those in melee- remember when Bowser made a friend?
• Snake was totally checking Samus out.

Is most of this just me?

[ILLiterate]

I think Marth is a fine role model for young homosexual men everywhere.

Don't hate him because he's beautiful.

Although, one of my friends has suggested that the headband Marth wears is actually a tiara.I will hate him because of c-stick spammers

[Utopoeia]

But it's the only way to play Marth! Also, it's a fun way to play Falco, since he moves forward with his forward smash. I WILL CHASE YOU WITH MY KICK!

[Broken]

Hey GUYS!!!!! I just joined SmashBoards. My username is TheGeneral so, say hello if you see me on there.

Eazy-P, yeah, Marth pretty much is a jerk...I'm still trying to figure out how you instantly tech off FD when he's edgegaurding with his sword. I see people do it all the time, but I think my timing is off.

[ILLiterate]

My name is EazyP on there. I've done that quite a few times, it's all about practice

Melee Tourney in Fresno, CA on November 25th (Saturday), it's first come first serve in the Pacific West portion of Smashboards > Tournament Regions part. Anyone up for it?

[nohero]

Am I the only one who gets the impression that there are gonna be a lot more 1P side-scrolling type levels? The trailer seemed to show a lot of lateral movement, and the crawling would fit into said levels.

[CE]

Man, I really do wish they'd set a release date. It'll probably be around January... I hope.

[linkspast]

Man, I really do wish they'd set a release date. It'll probably be around January... I hope. Some how I doubt it. I would much rather have them launch the game later in the year and pack the game so full of everything, then get it to us sooner. kinda like Zelda... but not nearly as long.
Edit: and ill be poor after I buy the wii, zelda then FFXII

[Ferret]

If the characters perform anywhere near as well in actual gameplay as they do in the preview trailers I'm sure that a lot of people will be very pleased regardless of how long or short the game is.
That, and multiplayer is the ultimate draw of Smash Brothers.
Four friends and a big-screen TV. That is true Zen.

[CE]

Four friends and ANY Super Smash Bros game is total and utter win.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

Four friends and ANY Super Smash Bros game is total and utter win.

I'm loving your username.

[Ferret]

I think Marth is a fine role model for young homosexual men everywhere.

Don't hate him because he's beautiful.

Although, one of my friends has suggested that the headband Marth wears is actually a tiara.I will hate him because of c-stick spammers

The only thing I spam is Marth's counter because it's a lot better than Roy's. Seriously it is.

[linkspast]

wow almost 100 pages

[darthseb]

I hope they tournament-ify this all over the US when it comes out.

[Global-Trance]

I think Marth is a fine role model for young homosexual men everywhere.

Don't hate him because he's beautiful.

Although, one of my friends has suggested that the headband Marth wears is actually a tiara.I will hate him because of c-stick spammers

The only thing I spam is Marth's counter because it's a lot better than Roy's. Seriously it is.

Actually, Roy's counter is a lot better... but Marth is just a way better character overall.

[SirChadlyOC]

Man, I really do wish they'd set a release date. It'll probably be around January... I hope.

My educated guess based on Nintendo history (but no links or research) is sometime in March. Mario Galaxy will probably be a few weeks off that date, I hope.

EDIT: 100th post! Woo-hoo, now I'm a Goomba!

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Man, I really do wish they'd set a release date. It'll probably be around January... I hope.

My educated guess based on Nintendo history (but no links or research) is sometime in March. Mario Galaxy will probably be a few weeks off that date, I hope.

EDIT: 100th post! Woo-hoo, now I'm a Goomba!

*stomps on SirChadly*

[Kiyosuki]

On Zero Suit Samus, there's a couple of people I know that suspect maybe she'll be the Zelda/Sheik of the next game. You know, the two in one character where one is power based and the other is speed/combo based.

I'm not quite sure I think the same thing, I still think its going to be some kind of conditional effect myself. Like if she takes too much damage, or as a side effect of her super move or something like that. But until or maybe unless Zelda is revealed to be in this with that ability I guess its as valid a guess as any.

Someone a few pages back mentioned that maybe when you crawl, it'll make you harder to launch up or hit out. Anyone see the potential great use of this with a character like Bowser? Hell with the shell and everything it could almost become the character's claim to fame if they did it right. I always felt one of the only things that kept Bowser from being as effective as he could be is he was too easy to stun and hit in the air for a character of his size.

[Murmeli Walan]

Man, I really do wish they'd set a release date. It'll probably be around January... I hope.

Actually, I'm glad they haven't said anything solid. Everyone knows how bad Nintendo is at keeping release dates.

[The Mutericator]

Man, I really do wish they'd set a release date. It'll probably be around January... I hope.

Actually, I'm glad they haven't said anything solid. Everyone knows how bad Nintendo, Bungie, and Blizzard are at keeping release dates.

Fix'd for comparison value.

[Katsurugi]

Yeah, Nintendo isn't great at deadlines at all. I would expect that it would be released fairly soon after launch however, like SSBM was for Gamecube. There wasn't too much fanfare or hype behind it then. All I knew was that it was a popular game on N64. I really didn't have too many expectations for it when I saw it out for cube, but I bought it and turned out to be an awesome buy. I think the first game I bought with it was Tony Hawk 3... but you had to buy a game with your console or else it's useless right?

I will be optimistic and also expect a January release (but hopefully it will parallel the SSBM's release and come out early December, though unlikely).

[CE]

Damn you people, I wanted page 100 post.

[ILLiterate]

Someone a few pages back mentioned that maybe when you crawl, it'll make you harder to launch up or hit out. Anyone see the potential great use of this with a character like Bowser? You can already do this, it's called Directional Influencing

[Inimitable]

Someone a few pages back mentioned that maybe when you crawl, it'll make you harder to launch up or hit out. Anyone see the potential great use of this with a character like Bowser? You can already do this, it's called Directional Influencing
Which is basically a fancy way of saying "if you hold left while in midair you'll move left and if you crouch you won't fly as far."

[Kiyosuki]

Someone a few pages back mentioned that maybe when you crawl, it'll make you harder to launch up or hit out. Anyone see the potential great use of this with a character like Bowser? You can already do this, it's called Directional Influencing

Mmm...maybe but I wasn't really thinking of that particular trick. Thats more of a damage control move. I was thinking like...a way for him to get around that could maybe temporarilly make it harder to get him into a stun animation. You know, kind of similar to how the Juggernaut is in MvC2 or Mecha Zangief. Its not invinsibility but it makes it so he can't be the victim of pesky bitch slapping quite as much. It would kind of fit the character's motif don't you think?

[Utopoeia]

I made a character select screen mock-up. I think it is pretty accurate to how it will be in the actual game.

http://eu.unmod.org/ssbbcharsel.jpg

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I made a character select screen mock-up. I think it is pretty accurate to how it will be in the actual game.

http://eu.unmod.org/ssbbcharsel.jpg

OMG SONIC'S GONNA BE IN THAT'S AWESOME!11!!!1!!!!!1!11!!!!shift+one!1!!

[linkspast]

Man, I really do wish they'd set a release date. It'll probably be around January... I hope.

Actually, I'm glad they haven't said anything solid. Everyone knows how bad Nintendo, Bungie, and Blizzard are at keeping release dates.

Fix'd for comparison value.

Starcraft 2. Ghost?

[ILLiterate]

I made a character select screen mock-up. I think it is pretty accurate to how it will be in the actual game.

http://eu.unmod.org/ssbbcharsel.jpg

OMG SONIC'S GONNA BE IN THAT'S AWESOME!11!!!1!!!!!1!11!!!!shift+one!1!!

[Utopoeia]

Too bad red Sonic is broken.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Sort of like pink luigi.

Actually, I guess pink Luigi is about as un-broken as you can get.