Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[Global-Trance]

Someone a few pages back mentioned that maybe when you crawl, it'll make you harder to launch up or hit out. Anyone see the potential great use of this with a character like Bowser? You can already do this, it's called Directional Influencing
Which is basically a fancy way of saying "if you hold left while in midair you'll move left and if you crouch you won't fly as far."

Moving in midair is Directional Influence and not moving when getting hit while holding down is Crouch Canceling. Get the terms right. :P

[Kiyosuki]

I made a character select screen mock-up. I think it is pretty accurate to how it will be in the actual game.

http://eu.unmod.org/ssbbcharsel.jpg

OMG SONIC'S GONNA BE IN THAT'S AWESOME!11!!!1!!!!!1!11!!!!shift+one!1!!

If you look at them in a certain way they kind of look like Pikmin.

[CE]

I made a character select screen mock-up. I think it is pretty accurate to how it will be in the actual game.

http://eu.unmod.org/ssbbcharsel.jpg

OMG SONIC'S GONNA BE IN THAT'S AWESOME!11!!!1!!!!!1!11!!!!shift+one!1!!

If you look at them in a certain way they kind of look like Pikmin.

I should start a petition to keep sonic out of Brawl D:<

[Jam Stunna]

Man, I really do wish they'd set a release date. It'll probably be around January... I hope.

My educated guess based on Nintendo history (but no links or research) is sometime in March. Mario Galaxy will probably be a few weeks off that date, I hope.

EDIT: 100th post! Woo-hoo, now I'm a Goomba!

I will be very surprised if this game actually comes out in 2007. Huge delays seem to have become standard operating procedure in the videogame industry.

[ILLiterate]

Someone a few pages back mentioned that maybe when you crawl, it'll make you harder to launch up or hit out. Anyone see the potential great use of this with a character like Bowser? You can already do this, it's called Directional Influencing
Which is basically a fancy way of saying "if you hold left while in midair you'll move left and if you crouch you won't fly as far."

Moving in midair is Directional Influence and not moving when getting hit while holding down is Crouch Canceling. Get the terms right. :P You're still doing the same basic thing, pretty much, and the term doesn't matter as long as I do it

[Wipomatic]

I made a character select screen mock-up. I think it is pretty accurate to how it will be in the actual game.

http://eu.unmod.org/ssbbcharsel.jpg

OMG SONIC'S GONNA BE IN THAT'S AWESOME!11!!!1!!!!!1!11!!!!shift+one!1!!

If you look at them in a certain way they kind of look like Pikmin.

I should start a petition to keep sonic out of Brawl D:<

No.

[Rek'rap Mas]

I should start a petition to keep sonic out of Brawl D:<

why? Everyone respects Sonic as an awesome character, who deserves recognition and would be excellent in SSBB.
Go home and cry to your mum over it, if you don't like it. 'Cause frankly no one else wants to hear your bitchin'

[CE]

I should start a petition to keep sonic out of Brawl D:<

why? Everyone respects Sonic as an awesome character, who deserves recognition and would be excellent in SSBB.
Go home and cry to your mum over it, if you don't like it. 'Cause frankly no one else wants to hear your bitchin'

You sure handled that in the mature way.

Sonic stopped being awesome when he started talking and having Shadow in the same game.

[ILLiterate]

This man speaks the complete truth

Anyways, I'm starting to think a little more highly of Solid Snake. That arching kick could be a really easy to hit and useful spike, and even though someone pointed out the "electricity" is on everything, Snakes hits look like they're giving out much more of a lag effect on other characters than other people. Not to mention he looks a bit floaty and VERY strong. Did anyone else notice how his 3 hit A combo, doesn't lead into a repeating spam move? Looks like there will actually be a use for those A combos now

We'll have to see

[giga]

I think Marth is a fine role model for young homosexual men everywhere.

Don't hate him because he's beautiful.

Although, one of my friends has suggested that the headband Marth wears is actually a tiara.I will hate him because of c-stick spammers

The only thing I spam is Marth's counter because it's a lot better than Roy's. Seriously it is.

Actually, Roy's counter is a lot better... but Marth is just a way better character overall.
FORWARD AIR.

[Global-Trance]

I think Marth is a fine role model for young homosexual men everywhere.

Don't hate him because he's beautiful.

Although, one of my friends has suggested that the headband Marth wears is actually a tiara.I will hate him because of c-stick spammers

The only thing I spam is Marth's counter because it's a lot better than Roy's. Seriously it is.

Actually, Roy's counter is a lot better... but Marth is just a way better character overall.
DOUBLE FORWARD AIR.

Fixed.

[ILLiterate]

FUGGIN YES

I found a GREAT ORANGE Gamecube controller :D

Good times ahoy

[Global-Trance]

After 12 hours of Smashing at Ken's house... here were the results. :)

KEN'S BIWEEKLY NOVEMBER 11, 2006 RESULTS:

We opened up with crew battles between other UCs and one community college. We (UCSB) were in a tight spot in the very last match. On the last battle, if we won, we'd get 1st place... if we lost... 4th place. Unfortunately we lost due to the fact that we sent in our weakest link first and got four-stocked. What a set-back. We did good considering we had that guy on our team. We had to let him play though, I mean, it was his birthday, oh well. :)

I blew it in doubles... double eliminated easily. The two teams I went up against were way better teams. Nothing else about that.

On singles, I won a bit but eventually got out. Out of 52, I was placed 25th. It wasn't bad considering I'm looking at all the names of the players who were placed above me. Mostly top So-Cal players. I don't feel bad for placing where I placed. I've only been playing for slightly under a year. From the results, it doesn't look like I might be good, but hey, when you're outclassed, you're outclassed. I'm still a rapist outside the major tournament scene at least. :lol:

CREW BATTLES
UCSD (Lead of 15 stocks)
vs UCI - win by 6
vs UCLA - win by 9
vs UCSB - lose by 2
vs UCR - win by 2
vs AVCC - N/A

UCI (Lead of -36 stocks.... *gulp*)
vs UCLA - lose by 7
vs UCSD - lose by 6
vs UCSB - lose by 8
vs UCR - lose by 11
vs AVCC - lose by 4

UCSB (Lead of 0 stock)
vs UCLA - lose by 7
vs UCI - win by 8
vs UCR - lose by 5
vs UCSD - win by 2
vs AVCC - win by 2

UCR (Lead of 12 stocks)
vs UCI - win by 11
vs UCSD - lose by 2
vs UCSB - win by 5
vs UCLA - lose by 2
vs AVCC - N/A

UCLA (Lead of 12 stocks)
vs UCI - win by 7
vs UCR - win by 2
vs UCSB - win by 7
vs UCSD - lose by 9
vs AVCC - win by 5

AVCC (Lead of -3 stocks)
vs UCI - win by 4
vs UCR - N/A
vs UCSB - lose by 2
vs UCLA - lose by 5
vs UCSD - N/A

1st place -> UC San Diego (W4-L1)
2nd place -> UC Los Angeles (W4-L1)
3rd place -> UC Riverside (W3-L2)
4th place -> UC Santa Barbara (W3-L2) (w00t... I guess)
5th place -> Antelope Valley CC (W1-L4)
6th place -> UC Irvine (W0-L5)

Biweekly results:
1: The Flamingos (Ken + Mana)
2: Birthday Boy!!! (Arash + CAOTIC)
3: Neal Pro (BoA + Teba)
4: Deep Socal
5: Stinkfist
5: Taco Bell
7: Oops, Luigi is Broken
7: Team Palmdale B
9: Awesome Possum
9: UCSB
9: San Bernardino
9: Jett and Backwards
13: X-Bruins
13: Double D's
13: SA
13: KA
17: Pimp Slap
17: Beyond Divinity
17: Santa Barbara Rapes San Diego
17: Sky Pirates
17: OCC
17: UCLA
17: Hurry Up And Own Us
17: Arajuana
25: YAP
25: KiraMan
25: SNPR
25: WuCSB (Here's me. We blew it in teams lol)
25: Team 626

1: Ken
2: Edrees
3: Teba
4: Vincus
5: Manacloud
5: CAOTIC
7: S.O.S. (DQ'ed early)
7: Mike Y
9: Bruce
9: Ultra Luigi
9: Wolf
9: Arash
13: ROFL
13: Blitz
13: EzynJay
13: REL
17: Jobe
17: Xcal
17: Kokichi
17: Aesis
17: Master Sword
17: Hirsine
17: McRustyJr
17: Evilnemesis
25: E40
25: Global-Trance :D
25: Oops
25: Gabe
25: Danimals
25: Fugito
25: Kira
25: Dodger
33: YoshiFreak
33: SNPR
33: Scott
33: ThomaSexy
33: Jizz
33: Neal
33: jake the boy
33: DC
33: Creepy Fingers
33: TYR
33: Tafokints
33: Connor
33: S2
33: Zander805
33: Stick
49: YAP
49: Emerican
49: Yo-Jo

Ken's also reached a new level of ridiculous. At the end, Ken faced against Edrees (best Peach in the state of California) and beat him super easily with Luigi, Ganondorf, and Captain Falcon. He didn't even need to break out Marth for the finals. I didn't think any of that stuff Ken did was possible. Guess he was saving up his new characters for this tournament... Ken really is TOO good.

I didn't get a chance to play with me but someone told me he complimented on how I played. He said something along the lines of "Hey who's this guy from Santa Barbara? He's got good tech." At least I can take that home with me. :)

EDIT: PHOTOS TO COME WHEN I GET HOME

[Faduger]

Go SKYPAL, word to the hommies....wise you are...weak i am. The new smash will ruin life as i know it, awesome.

[ILLiterate]

At the end, Ken faced against Edrees (best Peach in the state of California) and beat him super easily with Luigi...
pwntNot really, Luigi's epic wavedash can play some serious mind games, not to mention his very easy to his fair that does some very nice knock back and damage. A very floaty character that can mess up your timing, and use great trickery

Also, this is Ken, easily one of the best Smashers in our entire continent

[The Author]

Okay, according to a Nintendo official I met today, SSBB will use the Wii controler... I still have doubts but anyway...

[ILLiterate]

It will use the Wii controler, but the director has said to keep your gamecube controllers, since you can use BOTH

[linkspast]

I was positive that they said that it would not use the wii-mote. It better not throw off my smash

[The Author]

I was positive that they said that it would not use the wii-mote. It better not throw off my smash

Trust me on this one, the Wiimote is the best controller ever.

[Global-Trance]

Quoted from Smashboards...

Alright time for pics!

All the photos I took are found here at:
http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly

But here are a few select ones...

Keep in mind that these are all 25% of their original size.

http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly/IMG_2771.jpg

http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly/IMG_2784.jpg

http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly/IMG_2802.jpg

http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly/IMG_2818.jpg

http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly/IMG_2820.jpg

http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly/IMG_2822.jpg

http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly/IMG_2843.jpg

http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly/IMG_2866.jpg

http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly/IMG_2873.jpg

http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly/IMG_2875.jpg

http://g-t.dew-owns-it.com/biweekly/IMG_2876.jpg

Shoutouts:
Ken and Manacloud : Thanks for hosting.
X_Cal : Sweet ditto matches.
Ultra Luigi: Why are you so tight?
Scott ( I think): Sorry your Jigglypuff's Down+B phantom'd against me. :)
Aesis: You sexy beast.
CAOTIC: Thanks for going easy on me with your Peach. :P
Palmdale Peeps: You're all too good.
Other UC's: You're all also too good. Stop it.

And best wishes to all the birthday kids!

Biweekly Tourney's at Ken's place, as nerdy as they seem to be, are fun times... especially when they're birthday parties at the same time! :P

[Geoffrey Taucer]

So who's who in those pics?

[ILLiterate]

Bowser :D

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

I suck at this game. The level of depth and difficulty against a very skilled player seems almost worse than the asian kids who have 2d fighters down to an art.

Thank god for an offline mode. Will they have "smash points" in a similar sense to your online points with Tetris DS?

[Schlagwerk]

A note about the new SSBB trailer.

I'm not that impressed. It seems like another graphics update (with new characters); there's not any new gameplay enhancements that I can see. I'm gonna buy it though (SSB 1 & 2 didn't let me down).

Looking forward to playing as Pit(2 t's?) regardless.

[Cerrax]

A note about the new SSBB trailer.

I'm not that impressed. It seems like another graphics update (with new characters); there's not any new gameplay enhancements that I can see. I'm gonna buy it though (SSB 1 & 2 didn't let me down).

Looking forward to playing as Pit(2 t's?) regardless.

So you missed the parts with destructible environments, crawling, and possible low-gravity stages? Not to mention the new Smash Bros symbol that enables Super Moves?

[Schlagwerk]

A note about the new SSBB trailer.

I'm not that impressed. It seems like another graphics update (with new characters); there's not any new gameplay enhancements that I can see. I'm gonna buy it though (SSB 1 & 2 didn't let me down).

Looking forward to playing as Pit(2 t's?) regardless.

So you missed the parts with destructible environments, crawling, and possible low-gravity stages? Not to mention the new Smash Bros symbol that enables Super Moves?
There was destructable environments in SSBM. Brinstar and Ness's stage to an extent were destructable. Final Destination was low-grav when you fought Master Hand, for that matter.

Crawling, though, I did miss. Can't really think of how it would work all that well in 3D (unless there's going to be split-screen).

Super moves, blah. Seen it in Power Stone.

[friendlyHunter]

First post in this thread, whee! (maybe...)

I actually liked a lot of things from SSB1 better than SSBM, but looking at the trailers it looks like the Brawl fighting will be much better than either =D I also love the new "feel" of the attacks.

I'm just hoping Samus' (in a suit) crawling turns her into the morph ball, it'd be lame to see Samus-in-a-suit actually crawl... Morph ball attacks would be awsome too (arial 'A' moves maybe, or even something similar to Yoshi's egg move!).

I'd also love to see more faithfullness to the original games. I disliked how, for example, Samus didn't have any fast and weak shooting moves, and how all of Ness' and Ganondorf's moves (though I didn't play Windwaker) had little to do with the original characters. But it looks like this is going to be an amazing game anyway - unfaithfullness to the original (non SSB) games, and possibly too many clone character/moves are my only worries (and superficial ones at that).

I'm also curious how the "trapped in triforce" and "kirby cooking people" moves will work... Ah well, we'll see. We'll see.......

[CE]

A note about the new SSBB trailer.

I'm not that impressed. It seems like another graphics update (with new characters); there's not any new gameplay enhancements that I can see. I'm gonna buy it though (SSB 1 & 2 didn't let me down).

Looking forward to playing as Pit(2 t's?) regardless.

So you missed the parts with destructible environments, crawling, and possible low-gravity stages? Not to mention the new Smash Bros symbol that enables Super Moves?
There was destructable environments in SSBM. Brinstar and Ness's stage to an extent were destructable. Final Destination was low-grav when you fought Master Hand, for that matter.

Crawling, though, I did miss. Can't really think of how it would work all that well in 3D (unless there's going to be split-screen).

Super moves, blah. Seen it in Power Stone.

Crawling isn't for stealth. Crawling is too keep the advantage crouching gives you (if you don't know, getting hit while crouching will prevent you from flying as far) while moving at the same time. Also, dodging projectiles.

[Cerrax]

A note about the new SSBB trailer.

I'm not that impressed. It seems like another graphics update (with new characters); there's not any new gameplay enhancements that I can see. I'm gonna buy it though (SSB 1 & 2 didn't let me down).

Looking forward to playing as Pit(2 t's?) regardless.

So you missed the parts with destructible environments, crawling, and possible low-gravity stages? Not to mention the new Smash Bros symbol that enables Super Moves?
There was destructable environments in SSBM. Brinstar and Ness's stage to an extent were destructable. Final Destination was low-grav when you fought Master Hand, for that matter.

Crawling, though, I did miss. Can't really think of how it would work all that well in 3D (unless there's going to be split-screen).

Super moves, blah. Seen it in Power Stone.

I wouldn't really call Brinstar and Onett destructible stages. Two little platforms tipping over and a few awnings falling down aren't the same as entire platforms exploding and the whole stage being reduced to tiny clouds.

[CE]

A note about the new SSBB trailer.

I'm not that impressed. It seems like another graphics update (with new characters); there's not any new gameplay enhancements that I can see. I'm gonna buy it though (SSB 1 & 2 didn't let me down).

Looking forward to playing as Pit(2 t's?) regardless.

So you missed the parts with destructible environments, crawling, and possible low-gravity stages? Not to mention the new Smash Bros symbol that enables Super Moves?
There was destructable environments in SSBM. Brinstar and Ness's stage to an extent were destructable. Final Destination was low-grav when you fought Master Hand, for that matter.

Crawling, though, I did miss. Can't really think of how it would work all that well in 3D (unless there's going to be split-screen).

Super moves, blah. Seen it in Power Stone.

I wouldn't really call Brinstar and Onett destructible stages. Two little platforms tipping over and a few awnings falling down aren't the same as entire platforms exploding and the whole stage being reduced to tiny clouds.

In Pit's stage, only the platforms can be destroyed. They are reduced to about 50% their original size and take the form of clouds.

[ILLiterate]

I have a 22 man smash tourney tomorrow in Fremont, CA

It's full so, sorry if anyone could of made it

GIVE ME POWAR

[TheCatPhysician]

Hey, look! Smashbros.com has been updated.

[Murmeli Walan]

Hey, look! Smashbros.com has been updated.

New screenshots and a good quality version of the Nintendo World 2006 Trailer? Yays!

[Geoffrey Taucer]

And with a high-quality version of the nintendo world video!

Damn, listen to that music!

[Bigfoot]

I love how smooth the gameplay looks.

[Sir_NutS]

I love how smooth the gameplay looks.

I just noticed that, it seems like it runs at 60 fps, and it looks so darn good. I hope they can keep this framerate steady for the final release.

[Funkoid]

I love how smooth Samus looks.

Fixed :P

[Kiyosuki]

Damn, Ken's place looks pretty nice.

I can't wait to hear how they'll update the Kid Icarus music.

[KWarp]

I love how smooth the gameplay looks.

I just noticed that, it seems like it runs at 60 fps, and it looks so darn good. I hope they can keep this framerate steady for the final release.
We'll never know since the movie runs at 30fps.

[watkinzez]

Ah, that direct feed looks a lot better than what was released before. Animation could still be loosened up though.

[The Author]

I think the Mario Kart level means no Captain Falco.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I think the Mario Kart level means no Captain Falco.

That would suck royally.

[wormguy]

I think the Mario Kart level means no Captain Falco.

That would suck royally.

Yeah, they'd better at the very least bring back all of the classic characters.

[linkspast]

I think the Mario Kart level means no Captain Falco.

That would suck royally.

Yeah, they'd better at the very least bring back all of the classic characters.

Why would they get rid of anyone?

[mDuo13]

I think the Mario Kart level means no Captain Falco.

That would suck royally.

Yeah, they'd better at the very least bring back all of the classic characters.

Why would they get rid of anyone?
Because with too many characters it gets complicated to decide on characters and even more complicated to balance all the characters.

[!Nekko!]

I think the Mario Kart level means no Captain Falco.
D:

[linkspast]

I always thought it was Falcon. I hope he makes a return. It be kinda lame if they just got rid of someone . Kinda like Pluto.

[friendlyHunter]

It is "Falcon", that must have been a typo (but he talks funny so it sounds almost like "Falco Punch"). I'm pretty sure they'll get rid of some characters though. I'm hoping they'll axe Dr.Mario, Pichu, and Young Link at the very least, and MAYBE Ice Climbers (or axe it down to one climber?), Falco, and either Marth or Roy (replace one with a more different Fire Emblem character??). But I'm sure if they were to keep Falco, they'd try and make his moves more different than Fox. And I certainly hope they can invent an all-new set of moves for Ganondorf =D


But I'm REALLY hoping there's a second character from Metroid (like Dark Samus or SA-X!!!!!!), since it seems Samus will rely even less on projectile moves.

And I can't wait to see what Kirby turns into when he sucks up Snake and Wario ^^ ... oh wait, I can. And am =/

Stupid waiting =\

[Murmeli Walan]

And I can't wait to see what Kirby turns into when he sucks up Snake and Wario ^^ ... oh wait, I can. And am =/

Kirby with floppy hat and goggles = AWESOME

Kirby with manly stubble and bandanna = AWESOME-ER

[!Nekko!]

And I can't wait to see what Kirby turns into when he sucks up Snake and Wario ^^ ... oh wait, I can. And am =/

Kirby with floppy hat and goggles = AWESOME

Kirby with manly stubble and bandanna = AWESOME-ER

Anyone have that photoshop I did of Kirby + Snake?

[Red Shadow]

so long as ness remains i've no issue

[ncjason77]

Do any of you guys make videos of your matches? If so, could you post them? I'd like to see how some of you guys play. I have one here if anyone is interested

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0WBKy6EoYM

be gentle :lol:




also... if anyone knows of a good video compression software... please let me know.

[G_D]

I'd imagine that the removed/replaced lists of characters in SSBB will look something like this:

Removed:
- Dr. Mario
- Captain Falcon
- Ice Climbers (though I really hope not)
- Young Link
- Maybe Game & Watch

Replaced:
- Falco (with Crystal :vomit: or maybe Wolf)
- Marth and/or Roy (with someone from the American FE games)

/speculation

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I hope they don't take out Doc. He's the man.

[Zup]

I hope they don't take out Doc. He's the man.

Or Young Link. Clones rock when they're better than the original.

[ILLiterate]

I hope they don't take out Doc. He's the man.

Or Young Link. Clones rock when they're better than the original.Link is better than Young Link, Dr. Mario is better than Mario

If they took out Doc, I hope they'd at least fix up Mario, or just make Doc a costume and would also swap his style around (hits would have different effects as the clones do now)

[Zup]

I hope they don't take out Doc. He's the man.

Or Young Link. Clones rock when they're better than the original.Link is better than Young Link, Dr. Mario is better than Mario

If they took out Doc, I hope they'd at least fix up Mario, or just make Doc a costume and would also swap his style around (hits would have different effects as the clones do now)

Says who? The character is only as good as the player.

[friendlyHunter]

Yeah, different costumes like that would be great. I hope they have a "classic purple & yellow" costume for Wario too. And I hope Kirby-Wario gets the nose and moustache too...

But you know what character I'm really hoping for that they probably won't add? Paper Mario!! Just think of the possibilities! And the giant hammering fun! Heh, his A-up move could be to catch a gust of air and get thrown upwards, then slowly float down.

[Global-Trance]

Says tournament stats and simple observation. I like both Link and Young Link, but man does Young Link suck compared to his older counterpart. Link has more of an edge than his younger self. Every real tournament caliber player I know that plays Link will all agree that Young Link is weak.

[Baleshadow]

And I can't wait to see what Kirby turns into when he sucks up Snake and Wario ^^ ... oh wait, I can. And am =/

Kirby with floppy hat and goggles = AWESOME

Kirby with manly stubble and bandanna = AWESOME-ER

Indeed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/Baleshadow/Kirby___Snake_Eater.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/Baleshadow/metalgearkirby.jpg

[friendlyHunter]

But you know what character I'm really hoping for that they probably won't add? Paper Mario!! Just think of the possibilities! And the giant hammering fun! Heh, his A-up move could be to catch a gust of air and get thrown upwards, then slowly float down.

Gah, B-up I mean, B! I should be banned from the thread :cry:

[Cecilff2]

And I can't wait to see what Kirby turns into when he sucks up Snake and Wario ^^ ... oh wait, I can. And am =/

Kirby with floppy hat and goggles = AWESOME

Kirby with manly stubble and bandanna = AWESOME-ER

Anyone have that photoshop I did of Kirby + Snake?

You mean this one?
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8316/snirby3zanv5.jpg

[Ray Falling]

You guys make a good point saying having too many characters makes it difficult to choose who to play as/balance them out.

But they can easily put in the old characters/clones whatever in some sort of classic mode or as secret characters.

People are gonna choose favourites anyway and having alot of choice in characters would be cool for everyone.

;_; Having less characters to choose from would actually be abit dissapointing. That would be like playing F-zero GX with only the choice of 6 racers.
Someone is gonna miss certain characters if left out. (Though I wouldn't mind seeing some of them go)

But I agree that some characters need more unique skills and I think we'll get that too.

This game better get here fast!

[G_D]

It's not like they're going to have less characters overall; it's just that they need to take some out to make room for new ones, or else it would get ridiculous. I'm expecting a total of 5-10 more characters than Melee, which is probably a good range.

[Sir_NutS]

It's not like they're going to have less characters overall; it's just that they need to take some out to make room for new ones, or else it would get ridiculous. I'm expecting a total of 5-10 more characters than Melee, which is probably a good range.

I'm actually expecting them to leave the same amount of chars but to get rid of the clones, that sounds like the wisest decision since they don't have much time to make so many new characters(with all the programming, modeling, animation, and balancing that it requires). Though, 4 or 8 more chars wouldn't hurt. I still have my hopes up for a bigger cast but I'm not expecting that too much.

[Jam Stunna]

Says tournament stats and simple observation. I like both Link and Young Link, but man does Young Link suck compared to his older counterpart. Link has more of an edge than his younger self. Every real tournament caliber player I know that plays Link will all agree that Young Link is weak.

Young Link's speed and sex kick make up for his lack of strength.

[Global-Trance]

Says tournament stats and simple observation. I like both Link and Young Link, but man does Young Link suck compared to his older counterpart. Link has more of an edge than his younger self. Every real tournament caliber player I know that plays Link will all agree that Young Link is weak.

Young Link's speed and sex kick make up for his lack of strength.

Just play Link fast... and his sex kick is good too. When you actually get real good with Link, you'll be saying "Who's Young Link?"

Edit: I'm not saying you shouldn't play Young Link, but the older one definitely outweighs the younger one in terms of killing and winning.

[ILLiterate]

And to the person so said Mario & Doc are equal...

Doc has A LOT more power and kill moves. The pills have a much better trajectory than the fireballs, and also do more damage. The Fair for Doc is also VERY useful if you know how to pull it off right, and since he's stronger, his chain grab is technically better, just by a bit. His recovery is only a BIT WORSE than Mario's, and you might say that a shorter "cape" is a weakness, but actually Doc's sheet can take out sweet spotters, something Mario cannot do. Mario does have a spike but, I find it pretty ridiculous to recover from and not all that useful as it doesn't have much priority. You also might say Doc is slower, but only his A combo is, and if you're using the 3rd hit of the A combo...you really shouldn't be. So when weighted out, yes, Doc is the better character.

[Jam Stunna]

Says tournament stats and simple observation. I like both Link and Young Link, but man does Young Link suck compared to his older counterpart. Link has more of an edge than his younger self. Every real tournament caliber player I know that plays Link will all agree that Young Link is weak.

Young Link's speed and sex kick make up for his lack of strength.

Just play Link fast... and his sex kick is good too. When you actually get real good with Link, you'll be saying "Who's Young Link?"

Edit: I'm not saying you shouldn't play Young Link, but the older one definitely outweighs the younger one in terms of killing and winning.

Personally I don't play Link, but my Smash Bros. counterpart has a damned good Link, but his Young Link is even scarier. True, Link has the power to get the kills, whick does make KO-ing alot easier.

[atmuh]

And to the person so said Mario & Doc are equal...

Doc has A LOT more power and kill moves. The pills have a much better trajectory than the fireballs, and also do more damage. The Fair for Doc is also VERY useful if you know how to pull it off right, and since he's stronger, his chain grab is technically better, just by a bit. His recovery is only a BIT WORSE than Mario's, and you might say that a shorter "cape" is a weakness, but actually Doc's sheet can take out sweet spotters, something Mario cannot do. Mario does have a spike but, I find it pretty ridiculous to recover from and not all that useful as it doesn't have much priority. You also might say Doc is slower, but only his A combo is, and if you're using the 3rd hit of the A combo...you really shouldn't be. So when weighted out, yes, Doc is the better character.

I've always liked Mario better and always will :[

[Global-Trance]

You can recover from Mario's spike with a simple Up B.

[Decoy Octopus]

Says tournament stats and simple observation. I like both Link and Young Link, but man does Young Link suck compared to his older counterpart. Link has more of an edge than his younger self. Every real tournament caliber player I know that plays Link will all agree that Young Link is weak.

Young Link's speed and sex kick make up for his lack of strength.

Just play Link fast... and his sex kick is good too. When you actually get real good with Link, you'll be saying "Who's Young Link?"

Edit: I'm not saying you shouldn't play Young Link, but the older one definitely outweighs the younger one in terms of killing and winning.
In my experience, I win a lot more with Young Link because of his speed. Link does have the strength but he's much more sluggish and takes more damage. With Young Link, I'm able to jump around like a coked-up jack rabbit and make quick guerrilla strikes all the way to victory.

It all really comes down to personal preference, though. Maybe, in general, Link is better than Young Link. I just know that in my case I'm better with the latter.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Only thing I really like about young link is his d-tilt; it's a spike, and an easy one which requires much less setup than most.

[Jam Stunna]

Any Smashers in the New England area heading to Viva la Smash II (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=87389)? If so, drop me a line and maybe we can meet up and play a friendly or something.

[giga]

Only thing I really like about young link is his d-tilt; it's a spike, and an easy one which requires much less setup than most.
and his down-smash is great for edgeguards

[Broken]

I hosted my first smash tourney yesterday evening. It was a great success. I had something like twenty participants and, while the skill level was mixed, there wasn't anyone who was unstoppable or uncontested. standings (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=90425&page=2)

Unfortunately, my peach didn't do as well as I'd of liked, but then again my mind was more on making sure the tourney went smoothly, than it was on winning.

I think this sparked interest in my area. We're definitely going to have another one soon, and...PEACH WILL HAVE HER REVENGE....

[Zeklan]

So in TP Zelda carries around a rapier and uses a bow.
Anyone think this will impact her Smash counterpart?

Mump.

[linkspast]

Id like to TP link in SSBB, even though I have yet to play TP.

[Arek the Absolute]

Says tournament stats and simple observation. I like both Link and Young Link, but man does Young Link suck compared to his older counterpart. Link has more of an edge than his younger self. Every real tournament caliber player I know that plays Link will all agree that Young Link is weak.

Young Link's speed and sex kick make up for his lack of strength.

Just play Link fast... and his sex kick is good too. When you actually get real good with Link, you'll be saying "Who's Young Link?"

Edit: I'm not saying you shouldn't play Young Link, but the older one definitely outweighs the younger one in terms of killing and winning.
My strategy with young link is completely different than my strat for Adult. I tried playing adult link like I do with young link and man was that a huge difference.
I really can't explain my young link strat, but it consists of using the tools in a different way than intended.

[Bigfoot]

So I'm finally going to actually get a chance to play with actually players this weekend. My friend gets to house sit his aunt's house, so me, him, and two others are going to take advantage of a free house this weekend.

[Old Man Time]

anti-deletion bump

[Broken]

Nice save, Old Man Time. I'll admit I almost forgot about this thread (shame on me.)
Now, to add something relevent to the thread, I'd like to proclaim that I finally have my own copy of Smash. Hurrah! Unfortunately, that means jack without living, breathing, thinking opponents to play against. The stupid computer is... well a machine. It does super human things on a regular basis.

[linkspast]

So why havent we seen any more anything for SSBB? I want new material...

[Dark Chocobo]

Nice save, Old Man Time. I'll admit I almost forgot about this thread (shame on me.)
Now, to add something relevent to the thread, I'd like to proclaim that I finally have my own copy of Smash. Hurrah! Unfortunately, that means jack without living, breathing, thinking opponents to play against. The stupid computer is... well a machine. It does super human things on a regular basis.

The best example I've seen of stupid yet super human computer is in the Worms series of games, where they will regularly make seemingly impossible shots using the bazooka, yet will fail to notice that his guy is standing right next to an explosive barrel.

In Smash, it's the same thing, where the computer uses seemingly impossible cheapness to kill you, yet you can easily win by figuring out their pattern.

[CE]

So why havent we seen any more anything for SSBB? I want new material...

Don't we all...

[Murmeli Walan]

Don't we all...

That's the point. Release just a tiny bit of information at a time over long periods of time, and the anticipation for the game grows larger.

I would not be suprised at all if we don't hear anything new until E3 2007 or whatever gaming event is around by then.

[G_D]

10 char limit :(

Also, bump!

[Eulogic]

Looks like an interior of a palace in one of the new screenshots. Maybe TP Hyrule Castle?

[Reaif]

Been a long time since the orignal thread. In fact, I think that the original reason I joined OCR is because of that old thread. Anyway, I was just wondering if this is mostly for the new one coming out or for the old one(s) we already have, or if it's just for everything relating to smash.

[Murmeli Walan]

Been a long time since the orignal thread. In fact, I think that the original reason I joined OCR is because of that old thread. Anyway, I was just wondering if this is mostly for the new one coming out or for the old one(s) we already have, or if it's just for everything relating to smash.

Pretty much anything Smash Bros-related is alright here.

[CE]

Looks like an interior of a palace in one of the new screenshots. Maybe TP Hyrule Castle?

Which one?

And yes, everything Smash Bros related goes here.

[linkspast]

you can thank me later.

[KWarp]

Are we stuck with this same thread title forever now?

[Pi_R_[]ed]

I've always been nervous of posting here, I'm not a hardcore player. And I'm not about to go through a few hundred pages to see if it's already been mentioned, but I want to throw my idea in. Instead of new colorations, what about new costumes? Example: Mario, SMB Mario, SMB2 Mario, Paper Mario, N64 Mario, but they all have the same moves, weight, power, speed, etc., and are all represented by the same icon on the menu. Just like changing colors for team battles. Only thing is, Nintendo would need to re-sprite all the old characters for the new moves. Neato, if you ask me. And at least that'd get rid of people asking for variations of other characters. A character like fox would have every costum from every game he's been in. Unfortunatly, a character like Game+Watch would only have one costume, and would still need alt. colors.

Also, Deku, Goron, and Zora masks as items, with new models for each character, for each transformation. Deku Pikachu, Goron Bowser, etc...

[Murmeli Walan]

ed;218856']Instead of new colorations, what about new costumes? Example: Mario, SMB Mario, SMB2 Mario, Paper Mario, N64 Mario, but they all have the same moves, weight, power, speed, etc., and are all represented by the same icon on the menu. Just like changing colors for team battles. Only thing is, Nintendo would need to re-sprite all the old characters for the new moves. Neato, if you ask me. And at least that'd get rid of people asking for variations of other characters. A character like fox would have every costum from every game he's been in. Unfortunatly, a character like Game+Watch would only have one costume, and would still need alt. colors.

Also, Deku, Goron, and Zora masks as items, with new models for each character, for each transformation. Deku Pikachu, Goron Bowser, etc...

It's really a neat idea, and it's something I've always wanted to see, but I'd rather it not happen. Look at it this way: to make...say...SMB2 Mario, SSBB's as-yet-unknown developer would have to use disc space that could be used for more characters and levels and instead use it to make a Mario who is EXACTLY like the main Mario, only dressed differently. Color variations take up less space, which saves more room for other features.

And besides, if they DID make differently dressed characters, then I'd rather see them have slight differences, such as Dr. Mario is to Mario and Young Link is to Link.

[CE]

Are we stuck with this same thread title forever now?

I guess we are.

vbulletin s0xxx!11!11

But yeah.

MODS: PLEASE CHANGE THREAD TITLE TO "[Smash Bros.] Twiddling our thumbs...".

[Pi_R_[]ed]

It's really a neat idea, and it's something I've always wanted to see, but I'd rather it not happen. Look at it this way: to make...say...SMB2 Mario, SSBB's as-yet-unknown developer would have to use disc space that could be used for more characters and levels and instead use it to make a Mario who is EXACTLY like the main Mario, only dressed differently. Color variations take up less space, which saves more room for other features.

And besides, if they DID make differently dressed characters, then I'd rather see them have slight differences, such as Dr. Mario is to Mario and Young Link is to Link.

Nah, I don't think so. How much space can a SMB2 Mario model take up? It's only two dimensions. Besides, most games don't even use up all the space on the disc provided. Is it so bad they push the limit?

I'm not saying to get rid of Young Link. I'm just saying that LoZ Link, LttP Link, OoT Adult Link, and TP Link are all different people. For that matter, look at OoT Young Link, WW Link, and LA Link are all different people, too...

[linkspast]

I dont know anything about making games... But I think that just cause it looks 2d dose not mean its a 2d sprite... This is just a guess but Remember Game and watch... well I figure he was a 3d model but they made him look 2d my making the rest of the model invisible...

This is just speculation though.

[Pi_R_[]ed]

Look at a cube. It's made of 6 2d squares. There's nothing in it. Game and Watch actually is 3D, but has a pseudo-2D appearance. A game like Paper Mario is a better example. For a character like a Paper Mario costume, the whole thing would be completely 2D. The only thing is that the developers would need to make a "Paper-Mario" sprite for EVERY SINGLE frame of animation he has. THAT's what might make things harder. Luckily, games like Paper Mario, or SMB, or SMB2 don't have animations in-between jumps, or leading into attacks, etc.. Although you can't forget that the memory needed for a single frame of animation for a jumping mario sprite is much smaller than animating a 3D model of one.

The real problems would come up with making the 3D characters.

[!Nekko!]

I know people are psyched about the multiplayer, but I wonder what additions there will be to Brawl's single player. I hope they have more specialized single player modes for each character or have a 1player mode thats more epic and an actual adventure that takes more than one sitting to beat. Hell maybe throw RPG elements into it by redeeming coins to gain special abilities or increase damage or speed for that 1player mode. Not very original, but with SSB's gameplay, I'd think it would be fun and perhaps a decent tutorial for beginners.

[Murmeli Walan]

I know people are psyched about the multiplayer, but I wonder what additions there will be to Brawl's single player. I hope they have more specialized single player modes for each character or have a 1player mode thats more epic and an actual adventure that takes more than one sitting to beat. Hell maybe throw RPG elements into it by redeeming coins to gain special abilities or increase damage or speed for that 1player mode. Not very original, but with SSB's gameplay, I'd think it would be fun and perhaps a decent tutorial for beginners.

Miyamoto promised more content for 1-player, so I hope we'll see something good. I'm hopeful because SSBM's 1-player was such an improvement over the original. I'm expecting the same kind of improvement in the sequel.

[Pi_R_[]ed]

I'd like to see a huge version of adventure mode, where the levels blend into each other, with save points. Or maybe A branching adventure mode, with different paths to take through the game, with corresponding endings and rewards.

[watkinzez]

I'd be pleased with character specific adventures, or Outrun style path branching.

[Pi_R_[]ed]

Now, see, I like the idea of character specific branching. I'd have mentioned it, but none of my friends agreed, so I've stopped caring. Good to see someone else agrees.

[watkinzez]

ed;219150']Now, see, I like the idea of character specific branching. I'd have mentioned it, but none of my friends agreed, so I've stopped caring. Good to see someone else agrees.

I was thinking of them as seperate ideas, but combining them? That seems really intriguing. Nice.

[Pi_R_[]ed]

___________/ Mother-Brain (Char. Specific)
__________/ \ Captain Falcon (Char. Rival)
Samus Start
__________\Master Hand (General Ending)

I may have just killed this idea, but OMGWTFBBQ MOTHER BRAIN NPC BOSS! Of course, every character would have a developed path like this, with series specific, character specific, general endings, etc. Complete with redesigns of the character's home game. Brinstar sidescroller in 3D ftw. Original enemies, maybe, too. I'm going overboard, I should just shut up.

But like I said, user-made ideas APPLIED by the player don't always turn out great. Thats why the programmers/designers were hired.

[HideousBeing]

Can Nintendo make patches for SSBB that can somehow be downloaded to the disk over the wi fi?

[Blake]

Can Nintendo make patches for SSBB that can somehow be downloaded to the disk over the wi fi?

That would be cool. However they might not do that until you make your sig smaller. (which is very pretty btw.)

[linkspast]

Can Nintendo make patches for SSBB that can somehow be downloaded to the disk over the wi fi?

This is not ultra-large sig month. I believe that was in august, or sometime around there.


I dont see why not you can Download camo for MGS3 on the PS2... My guess its just if Nintendo will... but it could make the game even more amazing... if by disc you mean the flash memory. However if you are talking about the game disc then no. The Wii cannot write games. well i think

EDIT:
Dang blake ya beat me

[HideousBeing]

I was just wondering if on ssbm, the cpu's only can break stuns (when your shield is exhausted or sung to sleep by jiggylpuff) as fast as they do. I've tried many things, but I dont know if a stun effect can actually be broken as fast as they do it. Can it be done?

[Chir]

I'm just so thrilled to use those huge special moves! I can't wait to play it! I never really thought about having special moves in the game, but as soon as I saw them in SSBBs trailer I knew one thing that lacks in SSBM; special moves ^^

[Global-Trance]

I was just wondering if on ssbm, the cpu's only can break stuns (when your shield is exhausted or sung to sleep by jiggylpuff) as fast as they do. I've tried many things, but I dont know if a stun effect can actually be broken as fast as they do it. Can it be done?


Rotate analog stick, rotate C-stick, and rub all the other buttons like mad. Think of each direction on the analog stick and the C-stick as a "button press." The more you "press" buttons, the faster you get out... which is why it helps if you rotate both sticks while hitting all the other buttons as much as possible.

[Arek the Absolute]

So what are we looking at for a release date on this sucker?

[Pi_R_[]ed]

Nothing yet. Otherwise, we'd all be waiting in line already.

[Murmeli Walan]

So what are we looking at for a release date on this sucker?

The most they're telling us is 2007. My guess is the summer, but a more realistic guess would be the holiday season. Of course, we won't know more until the next big gaming trade show.

[KWarp]

The most they're telling us is 2007. My guess is the summer, but a more realistic guess would be the holiday season. Of course, we won't know more until the next big gaming trade show.

Game Informer says June 1st. EGM says Fall. I would say that's best case and worst case.

Personally I think Wii needs an online launch title in the 2nd quarter. <(-'v^)>

[Murmeli Walan]

June 1st sounds way too early, considering we still know relatively next to nothing about the game, not to mention Nintendo's habit of constantly pushing back release dates.

Then again, I could be wrong. You never know in the game industry.

[Pi_R_[]ed]

Worst-case wouldn't be an Autumn release. It'd be Nintendo waiting for the '07 holiday season.

[Strike911]

I bet Nintendo will release Smash closer to when some other companies' huge titles are coming out... for instance Halo 3 or MGS4... something like that... probably a fall release. . . its not official by any means, but I personally think September-ish would be the earliest we'll see it, but I could easily see it becoming available in November for the holiday push....

[bouncerboy15]

I'm guessing Smash will come out in the Fall or Winter of '07.

[Old Man Time]

I'm guessing Smash will come out in the Fall or Winter of '07.

I'm guessing Smash will come out right about when I buy a Wii. Actually, I'm pretty confidant about that.

[SetzerGabbiani]

sounds like we should make a little gambling pool out of this lol...

spring 07 100-1 odds
summer 07 75-1 odds
fall 07 50-1 odds
winter 07 25-1 odds

or something like that...im makin this up while im at work..


I think it'll be a fall release personally though.

[linkspast]

I'm guessing Smash will come out right about when I buy a Wii. Actually, I'm pretty confidant about that.

Same here...

and if luck is on my side maybe nintendo will have one of their bundle things that they always seem to start the week after I buy one of their systems...

[Ferret]

I need a Wii. Like bad. And there still aren't any. '_'
I hate everyone.

[KWarp]

June 1st sounds way too early, considering we still know relatively next to nothing about the game,
You could say the same thing about Zelda TP until a month before release.
not to mention Nintendo's habit of constantly pushing back release dates.
Rare was far worse. :P

Then again, I could be wrong. You never know in the game industry.
You never know in any industry. :rolleyes:

[The Mutericator]

Rare was far worse. :P

Still is. STUPID TEN CHARACTER LIMIT WHY ARE YOU HERE YOU'RE RUINING MY ONE-LINER COMEBACK.

[CE]

bumping it

[linkspast]

dang when I saw this, I was hoping for some new screens and more.... Comon on Nintendo throw us a bone here

[Thalzon]

Nintendo really blew their load last E3 by introducing all five non-secret, new characters at once. Remember how Melee was? Yeah, nobody knew who would be secret until the game was released. I imagine this will be the same thing.

[The Mutericator]

Nintendo really blew their load last E3 by introducing all five non-secret, new characters at once. Remember how Melee was? Yeah, nobody knew who would be secret until the game was released. I imagine this will be the same thing.

If you honestly thought that was all of them, you're going to be pleasantly surprised. HAL has some supreme secrecy going on, to the point that with Melee it took weeks after the game came out to get a concrete list of all the characters.

[Thalzon]

I meant they're not going to show us any secret characters before the game is released. Chances are, as a result, they won't show us any more characters period (aside from possible returnees). Sorry, poor wording on my part.

I imagine there's around 10-12 other characters, besides returnees, that we have yet to see.

[chrono26]

maybe even more! SSBM had twice as many charecters as SSB

[Murmeli Walan]

maybe even more! SSBM had twice as many charecters as SSB

The announced number has been set at 30-35. 50 is a pretty unrealistic number, sadly.

[Subz1987]

The announced number has been set at 30-35. 50 is a pretty unrealistic number, sadly.

damn, 30-35 is a lot.

They're going to show more characters to hype people up. Not all of them, but still more characters

[The Mutericator]

I meant they're not going to show us any secret characters before the game is released. Chances are, as a result, they won't show us any more characters period (aside from possible returnees). Sorry, poor wording on my part.

I imagine there's around 10-12 other characters, besides returnees, that we have yet to see.

Right, but you know how easy it is to build hype for that game? One trailer is all they'd need of in-game fighting, maybe show a couple of new items, and WHAM. Done, hype train is HUEG.

[Strike911]

The announced number has been set at 30-35. 50 is a pretty unrealistic number, sadly.

Where/When was this announced???!

I must have missed it. >_<

[FuriousFure]

What about B.o.B. from the snes?

an awesome secret character, i would think.

[Murmeli Walan]

Where/When was this announced???!

I must have missed it. >_<

This was from Sakurai's suggestion section of the Japanese Brawl website. About 5-10 more number-wise is pretty good, though.

I sure hope we find out more soon. I guess would be the next big industry event, whatever it's being called now. If we really lucky, we might even get a new tidbit from Miyamoto at next month's GDC.

[Broken]

Great news Melee fans! SSBM has been introduced to the EVO 2k7 line-up. This means that the fighting game community has finally acknowledged Melee as a worthy competitive fighter. (or the commitee was drunk when they did the line-up this year)

I'm so pumped about this, btw.

[Arek the Absolute]

Great news Melee fans! SSBM has been introduced to the EVO 2k7 line-up. This means that the fighting game community has finally acknowledged Melee as a worthy competitive fighter. (or the commitee was drunk when they did the line-up this year)

I'm so pumped about this, btw.

Ech, melee was better as an underground tourny game. next thing you know it will be in the mlg
oh god EW

[Murmeli Walan]

Ech, melee was better as an underground tourny game. next thing you know it will be in the mlg
oh god EW

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Melee is already part of the MLG roster.

[TheCatPhysician]

Actually though Melee has been in MLG for a while, it was just dropped from the Pro Circuit this year, though MLG says they aren't done with Smash yet. It's probably because they're worried about Brawl coming out in the middle of the season. But anyways, I'm also very excited that SSBM is in Evo finally. I'm definitely going to try to go to one of the Evo tournaments this year, and this is perfect timing because I was just about to get into Street Fighter games.

Edit: And btw, what's so bad about Melee being in tourneys like Evo and MLG? Melee has pretty much always been in MLG up until now, and that hasn't hurt underground tournaments at all.

[Arek the Absolute]

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Melee is already part of the MLG roster.

OH GOD NO
Do actual melee champs go, or just the idiots who think they are good?
aka do wes and ken go lololol


And what is so bad about having melee in MLG? MLG is so crap. It is an overhyped crapfest full of only the players who are arrogant. Game tournaments have always been awesome when they were underground. To have them advertised like football is just vomit educing.

[Sir_NutS]

no news on brawl makes me a sad NutS.

[TheCatPhysician]

OH GOD NO
Do actual melee champs go, or just the idiots who think they are good?
aka do wes and ken go lololol


And what is so bad about having melee in MLG? MLG is so crap. It is an overhyped crapfest full of only the players who are arrogant. Game tournaments have always been awesome when they were underground. To have them advertised like football is just vomit educing.

Haha good point. Most of MLG is Halo anyways, Melee was barely advertised or anything like that. And yeah, the pros like Ken did go, MLG has really big cash prizes. I havn't been to an MLG tourney but it seems like if you dont have a chance of winning money, underground tournaments are much better because MLG is all official, and with Melee being only 15% or something of the tournaments next to Halo, there is almost no time for friendly matches. But MLG said since they aren't having anything Smash in the Pro Circuit this year, instead they are going to fund a few major underground melee tournaments throughout the year, so it seems like you get the advantages of both types of tournaments to me. And that's really nice of them, because they're just plain losing money.

[Broken]

OH GOD NO
Do actual melee champs go, or just the idiots who think they are good?
aka do wes and ken go lololol


And what is so bad about having melee in MLG? MLG is so crap. It is an overhyped crapfest full of only the players who are arrogant. Game tournaments have always been awesome when they were underground. To have them advertised like football is just vomit educing.

I guess I'm weird, but I'd honestly rather watch Melee tourneys on TV than a football game. I mean its a lot easier for me to go watch a football game in real life than to make it to most tourneys anyway (but it looks like I'll be stuck watching Halo again for a whie....Oh, well.)

And quite honestly, fighting games NEED more positive publicity. It's no secret that the 2D fighter is a dying species. I mean don't get me wrong, I love the underground feel of melee and its community, but where I live underground= no one else within an hour's travel plays the game.

[Pi_R_[]ed]

Smash Tournaments on TV can't be all that bad. You don't like it, don't watch it. But I don't see the harm. I think it's great we have stuff to choose from, and bringing video games further into mainstream entertainment can only bring more support for the cause. Not that they really need it, but there's a "cool" factor to be able to flip channels and find Smash Bros playing in between other shows. Or Halo. Or anything for that matter.

Although in regards to flipping channels and finding SSBM/B playing, we could already do that on the Wii...

[KP9000]

ed;233992']Although in regards to flipping channels and finding SSBM/B playing, we could already do that on the Wii...

Are Wii jokes getting this bad nowadays?

I've heard that there's a rumor going around that SSBB is coming out next month. I'm willing to bet that the fountain of bullshit spewed forth this nonsense. I'm referring to SPoNG or however the fuck you spell it...

[Ninja-san]

Are Wii jokes getting this bad nowadays?

I've heard that there's a rumor going around that SSBB is coming out next month. I'm willing to bet that the fountain of bullshit spewed forth this nonsense. I'm referring to SPoNG or however the fuck you spell it...

I can see it coming out around the holiday season. Its too soon to be coming out next month

[KWarp]

March? Absolutely not.

Smash Brawl is an online title
The first online titles will be announced in Quarter 2
March is in Quarter 1

END RUMOR


If I were Nintendo, when would I release this game? It depends what I'm doing with the game. Am I revamping the control scheme? I have promised some surprises in the game. Do I want to launch online with this title as one of the first, or have other games test the water and slam in with a quality service? Holiday 2007 seems favorable. Yes.

[parasoul]

March? Absolutely not.

Smash Brawl is an online title
The first online titles will be announced in Quarter 2
March is in Quarter 1

END RUMOR


If I were Nintendo, when would I release this game? It depends what I'm doing with the game. Am I revamping the control scheme? I have promised some surprises in the game. Do I want to launch online with this title as one of the first, or have other games test the water and slam in with a quality service? Holiday 2007 seems favorable. Yes.

I have thought for a long time that Brawl would be the game they used to introduce Wii online play. I hope I'm still right. I don't want to wait until 4th quarter for this.

[Salluz]

Smash Bros. has been a winner, and will continue to be.

ITZDASHIIYAH!

[Arek the Absolute]

ed;233992']Smash Tournaments on TV can't be all that bad. You don't like it, don't watch it. But I don't see the harm. I think it's great we have stuff to choose from, and bringing video games further into mainstream entertainment can only bring more support for the cause. Not that they really need it, but there's a "cool" factor to be able to flip channels and find Smash Bros playing in between other shows. Or Halo. Or anything for that matter.

Although in regards to flipping channels and finding SSBM/B playing, we could already do that on the Wii...

More support? Are you shitting me? I used to work for gamestop, and they had this dvd promoting the MLG with movie stars playing games, acting like they knew what the fuck they were doing on there even though a couple were holding the controller upside down.
All this will do is make gaming into a joke. It will be mainstream and the 'cool thing to do' rather than something we do to enjoy. It will become the 'it thing', and if you follow how trends go at ALL, people only follow 'it' things just to look cool and NOT because they appreciate the product.
WHEN, not if unfortunately, gaming hits the 'it' phase, the gaming atmosphere will totally change.

[G_D]

For all of you thinking that they will release this game before Q4, you're on crack. Remember that this game was announced at E3 2006 (aka like 8 months ago), and the director (I don't remember his name) had only even found out about the game half a year before that*. There is no way they will get it done in less than a year and a half.

*I am going off of memory, but I believe this is correct.

EDIT: Well, I was a little off, but they didn't start development until late 2005 (http://wii.ign.com/articles/673/673532p1.html) (THIS IS A LINK READ IT!). Still, even 2 years seems like a really short time for a game like this.

[BigBoss]

Still, even 2 years seems like a really short time for a game like this.

2 years that we know about. I seriously doubt that for that big five year gap, they hadn't gotten any work on it done at all.

[G_D]

Obviously you didn't catch the link in my edit.

Sakurai reveals that development on the project has just recently started. In fact, as of May 2005, the game's development staff consisted of exactly one person, Sakurai himself.

[Red Shadow]

More support? Are you shitting me? I used to work for gamestop, and they had this dvd promoting the MLG with movie stars playing games, acting like they knew what the fuck they were doing on there even though a couple were holding the controller upside down.
All this will do is make gaming into a joke. It will be mainstream and the 'cool thing to do' rather than something we do to enjoy. It will become the 'it thing', and if you follow how trends go at ALL, people only follow 'it' things just to look cool and NOT because they appreciate the product.
WHEN, not if unfortunately, gaming hits the 'it' phase, the gaming atmosphere will totally change.
EA anyone?

microsoft, anyone?

[Noodle]

More support? Are you shitting me? I used to work for gamestop, and they had this dvd promoting the MLG with movie stars playing games, acting like they knew what the fuck they were doing on there even though a couple were holding the controller upside down.
All this will do is make gaming into a joke. It will be mainstream and the 'cool thing to do' rather than something we do to enjoy. It will become the 'it thing', and if you follow how trends go at ALL, people only follow 'it' things just to look cool and NOT because they appreciate the product.
WHEN, not if unfortunately, gaming hits the 'it' phase, the gaming atmosphere will totally change.

This is true. About a week ago my nephew whom I live with, and my brother started playing a game of smash bros melee. They never play melee. They never play anything except WoW, and I heard the reasoning behind that one- he told his friend, "it's the most popular online game right now". They were playing "no items" because that's how good players do it; then they picked Hyrule Temple :roll:. That's not the end of it though. My nephew said he was going to "pown" my brother. What the heck guys. D:

When they invited me to play, I didn't even bother trying. Normally I'd go into adhd mode on someone like that, but I live with these guys, so I sandbagged like all hell and lost. My point being, Arek is right. It's already happened with shit like G4.

To finish I'd like to add my nephew works at hot topic, dresses emo and is a total trendwhore, much like my brother who sadly used to be a pretty cool guy. Just to help finish painting the mental portrait for my story there, y'know. Also, myspace.




D:

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Dude, you should have whipped his ass, shown him how the game is REALLY played.

[TheCatPhysician]

When they invited me to play, I didn't even bother trying. Normally I'd go into adhd mode on someone like that, but I live with these guys, so I sandbagged like all hell and lost. My point being, Arek is right. It's already happened with shit like G4.
As someone on Smashboards said (not in exact words) "They should have a tournament where the loser gets first place. Whoever lost must be really good to have tried so little."
Seriously. That's such a blatant john I'm almost wondering if you were just joking about this whole thing. "Oh, you beat me but that's because I didn't even bother trying."

Playing Smash does not make you cool, and it's not the most popular game on the internet anyways. Games like DotA and WoW are a lot more popular. But if people did play it to be cool or whatever, why would that be so bad? Sure I think it's retarded to do that, but these people obviously aren't going to be determined enough to get competitive/travel to tournaments or anything, and nobody outside of their group will hear of them anyways. But if some people hear about competitive Smash from TV or something and are actually interested and become competitive players, then great - more players.

There are thousands of little groups of friends out there who play Melee with just people in their own group, not knowing about the huge competitive scene. And whenever something happens like KillaOR on MTV or Smashboards talked about in Nintendo Power, more of these people find out about it and join the community. I know a professional Smasher in Anchorage Alaska who recently hosted a tournament in a room of a trading card store. He didn't even advertise it, just a little paper on the counter at the store, and over 30 people showed up, all who knew the basics of the game at least, and some who even played enough to know about things like using Falcon's down + b as a recovery to get 2 second jumps. But none of them knew about Smashboards or anything.

[Broken]

Dude, you should have whipped his ass, shown him how the game is REALLY played.

I agree. And after you beat him, you should have asked him if he was still having fun. (second sentence created to fulfill the char. limit.)

[TheCatPhysician]

So is anyone from OCR planning on going to any Evo events this year? If I make it to one I'm up for money matches.

[Pi_R_[]ed]

This is true. About a week ago my nephew whom I live with, and my brother started playing a game of smash bros melee. They never play melee. They never play anything except WoW, and I heard the reasoning behind that one- he told his friend, "it's the most popular online game right now". They were playing "no items" because that's how good players do it; then they picked Hyrule Temple :roll:. That's not the end of it though. My nephew said he was going to "pown" my brother. What the heck guys. D:

Man, flashbacks. Every time I go over a friend's house, its the same thing. Hyrule Castle (Or final destination), no items, and everyone picks Marth, or Roy, or whoever. I keep telling them, if they wanted you to play on the same level all the time, they wouldn't have put any others in the game. If they didn't want you to use items, they wouldn't have included any. I have to convince them to sneak in matches with random characters and levels just to get some fairness. Jeez, they just don't get it. The game stops being fun when you can't play just because your friends want the level they're best on, with the character they're best on, with their favorite settings.

[chrono26]

ed;236380']Man, flashbacks. Every time I go over a friend's house, its the same thing. Hyrule Castle (Or final destination), no items, and everyone picks Marth, or Roy, or whoever. I keep telling them, if they wanted you to play on the same level all the time, they wouldn't have put any others in the game. If they didn't want you to use items, they wouldn't have included any. I have to convince them to sneak in matches with random characters and levels just to get some fairness. Jeez, they just don't get it. The game stops being fun when you can't play just because your friends want the level they're best on, with the character they're best on, with their favorite settings.

i know man. and i'm sick people who get stars or hammers(if you convince them to play with items) and just stand there because they fight "with honor". WTF!?! just have fun man...

[Red Shadow]

i know man. and i'm sick people who get stars or hammers(if you convince them to play with items) and just stand there because they fight "with honor". WTF!?! just have fun man...thats when you go in and try to knock the hammer out of their hands and use what they wont against them

[WOT]

thats when you go in and try to knock the hammer out of their hands and use what they wont against them
Exactly.
Don't bitch about it and give up to their supposed cheapness, change your strategy.

[HalcyonSpirit]

i know man. and i'm sick people who get stars or hammers(if you convince them to play with items) and just stand there because they fight "with honor". WTF!?! just have fun man...

Similarly, the people in my dorm that play SSBM insist that edge-guarding is not allowed. If you do it to them, they'll essentially not want you to play against them anymore (or at least gang up on you if they let you play). It's idiotic.

[chrono26]

Exactly.
Don't bitch about it and give up to their supposed cheapness, change your strategy.

i said that they stand there once they get a hammer or a star, and "honor" or whatever bullshit is there excuse. i didnt say that i just let them do that. i keep on the playing the game the way its meant to be played. once it stops being about fun, then you have a problem

[ILLiterate]

Similarly, the people in my dorm that play SSBM insist that edge-guarding is not allowed. If you do it to them, they'll essentially not want you to play against them anymore (or at least gang up on you if they let you play). It's idiotic.That made me laugh

"You can't try and stop my recovery because then I can't get back on stage," might as well be what they said

[Red Shadow]

most of my friends refuse to play against me if I choose Ness anymore because apparently I am too good with him and they want a chance at least

or so they say

[Zoola]

My pals and I are kicking ass on netplay for Smash 64.



Get better friends.

[Ray Falling]

Any one I know/knew who plays Smash is on the same level of cheapness.
And since my level will always be on the cheapness that is good enough to beat the CPU, I'll never get any better T__T;

How the heck do people master a game like this anyway?

;_; I need a looot of practice on Brawl before I can face actual people again. Ya almost gotta play this game every day if you want to stay good. Losing...gamingpowers...again...

[TheCatPhysician]

most of my friends refuse to play against me if I choose Ness anymore because apparently I am too good with him and they want a chance at least

or so they say
lolol you keep talking about how your friends think you would do good in tournaments because your ness is too good, but you don't know. why dont you just go to a tournament and find out? its fun

[Fishy]

My friends are all so lame at the game. Not lame as in crap, lame as in annoying. One of them is always peach, spamming turnips and down smashes; one always uses jiggly; one uses game and watch (even though he can whoop with fox, he prefers to be annoying). It's just a big list of irritating characters.

That said I'm starting to use captain falcon a lot lately. I see how many times I can do his pose without getting hit. My record is about 12.

[ILLiterate]

Any one I know/knew who plays Smash is on the same level of cheapness.
And since my level will always be on the cheapness that is good enough to beat the CPU, I'll never get any better T__T;

How the heck do people master a game like this anyway?

;_; I need a looot of practice on Brawl before I can face actual people again. Ya almost gotta play this game every day if you want to stay good. Losing...gamingpowers...again...
www.smashboards.com

Look at characters you like, FAQs for how to play them, and the beginner videos to show you how to do stuff like Wavedashes and Techs

[Drack]

My pals and I are kicking ass on netplay for Smash 64.



Get better friends.

What emulator allows for netplay?

[Red Shadow]

lolol you keep talking about how your friends think you would do good in tournaments because your ness is too good, but you don't know. why dont you just go to a tournament and find out? its fun
a mention every six or so months doesnt really seem like i "keep" talking about it to me :-P

find me a tournament in the north-central florida area and i'll go see how i do, but i dont really want to travel all too far somewhere just to play a video game

[Pi_R_[]ed]

www.smashboards.com

Look at characters you like, FAQs for how to play them, and the beginner videos to show you how to do stuff like Wavedashes and Techs

That's the problem. There's people that want to have fun when playing (the way it's supposed to be), and people who take things seriously enough to study the game bit-by-bit, until they've mastered a character or two, without the use of items, on Hyrule Castle. Granted, there are exceptions, but, c'mon, it's just no fun to play against someone who takes it that seriously,

EDIT: Unless you train enough to get that good yourself, that is.

[Global-Trance]

I need more GOOD people to play Smash Melee with. Come play in Santa Barbara with me if you're arounnnnnnnnnd.

[Mr.Roboto]

ed;237111']That's the problem. There's people that want to have fun when playing (the way it's supposed to be), and people who take things seriously enough to study the game bit-by-bit, until they've mastered a character or two, without the use of items, on Hyrule Castle. Granted, there are exceptions, but, c'mon, it's just no fun to play against someone who takes it that seriously,

EDIT: Unless you train enough to get that good yourself, that is.

Why are people who play only on specific stages (Hyrule Castle) with no items even considered great in general?

Wow,You're good at the game,so what?You eliminated game mechanics to do so.(Environmental Hazards and Items.)While most players will say "But that simply adds luck!" Tell me this:When it comes down two players of the exact same "skill level" what does this fight come down to?Dumb luck thats what.Waiting for the first player to make the first mistake.

[G_D]

A lot of people at my school hate items. I'm fine either way, but I think that items add a lot of fun to the game.

[KWarp]

A lot of people at my school hate items. I'm fine either way, but I think that items add a lot of fun to the game.
I have no fun without items. Then again I play as Kirby...

[atmuh]

stop being a baby and turn the freaking items on and stop whining about some stages being unfair yes i know this is said a lot and i dont care so i am saying it again go ahead and start arguing with me

[Akaisen]

Why are people who play only on specific stages (Hyrule Castle) with no items even considered great in general?

Wow,You're good at the game,so what?You eliminated game mechanics to do so.(Environmental Hazards and Items.)While most players will say "But that simply adds luck!" Tell me this:When it comes down two players of the exact same "skill level" what does this fight come down to?Dumb luck thats what.Waiting for the first player to make the first mistake.

The two players in this instance want to find out who is better at the game. When a player makes the first mistake more often than the other, the other is probably the better player. Honestly, even if they did not eliminate the environmental hazards and items the results would still be the same. Having those things included, however, will only get in the way of finding out who is better.

My friends who I played this game with basically all started at about the same skill level and were pretty competitive. So, with items on, we would play and it would be a very close game, but then someone would get a legendary pokeball or a starman or a heart or something that would give an outrageous advantage to one player, allowing them to take victory. To competitive players like us, having a game end in this way is like ending a close game of basketball suddenly with a coin flip; it is an unsatisfying ending. Having all been on the receiving end of having a victory by merit snatched away by chance, we turned off the items. Since the battles after that were decided primarily by who was the better player, our skill continued to improve. We did not spend long hours "training" to become good, it is just a thing that happened.

I realize that people like to play with the items on and it is fun in a more random way like how mario party is fun, I am just hoping to give some insight as to why people like to play with no items, etc.

To answer your question, "Why are people who play only on specific stages (Hyrule Castle) with no items even considered great in general?" It is because the people who are considered great are extremely skilled at the game, and they play with those restrictions to increase fairness to both opponents.

[Cecilff2]

I love playing Starfoxes Corneria with all freezies and set to high. See how many times you can kill your opponents by freezing them onto a passing arwing which promptly flies upwards.

[linkspast]

I love playing Starfoxes Corneria with all freezies and set to high. See how many times you can kill your opponents by freezing them onto a passing arwing which promptly flies upwards.

Yeha I love to do things like that..

Such as lighting mode with only fox and rabbit ears.

It be cool if you could save your own presets.

[wormguy]

Items and hazardous environments make the game.

I'm so sick of people who will only play on Hyrule Castle or other huge boring maps. The fight always degenerates into a run-away-when-I-have-high-damage fest. Where's the fun in that? A good player should be able to adapt to any situation, hazard or item.

[The Mutericator]

Items and hazardous environments make the game.

I'm so sick of people who will only play on Hyrule Castle or other huge boring maps. The fight always degenerates into a run-away-when-I-have-high-damage fest. Where's the fun in that? A good player should be able to adapt to any situation, hazard or item.

I completely agree. Personally, I think being a good player is all about being able to use items and stage hazards to your advantage when possible. It's like saying, "Hey, I can beat you at Street Fighter 2, but we have to play Ryu and Ken and use only Hadokens." It's stupid.

Skill should be a matter of using everything to your advantage, not eliminating much of the game's main elements.

[Solid Krono]

The two players in this instance want to find out who is better at the game. When a player makes the first mistake more often than the other, the other is probably the better player. Honestly, even if they did not eliminate the environmental hazards and items the results would still be the same. Having those things included, however, will only get in the way of finding out who is better.

...

To answer your question, "Why are people who play only on specific stages (Hyrule Castle) with no items even considered great in general?" It is because the people who are considered great are extremely skilled at the game, and they play with those restrictions to increase fairness to both opponents.

Overall I completely agree with you. I will just point out though that there are plenty of items that don't really achieve giving one player a big advantage, which is why you have the ability to turn off individual items. I'm not trying to argue or anything, but there are just way too many people that won't even keep some of the lesser items on for fun because they "taint" the games. Kinda stupid IMO but whatever makes them happy. I just started to get really bored of the games with my friends after having items off for like... a year. We decided to turn them on and I thought "holy crap this is fun" lol.

[TheCatPhysician]

stop being a baby and turn the freaking items on and stop whining about some stages being unfair yes i know this is said a lot and i dont care so i am saying it again go ahead and start arguing with me

sup

but seriously, the game can be played 2 different ways. i dont see why that's so hard to accept. items are in the game, so is the option to turn them off. im fine knowing that some people play the game different than the way i do, and use items and crazy stages. im glad they are enjoying the game. you're the one whos saying "NO EVERYONE MUST PLAY THE WAY I DO" so who's the baby? lolz


to put this into perspective, imagine a couple grandmasters or something playing chess ultra-competitively. now imagine a new type of chess where completely random things that you can't control happen, like certain pieces suddenly getting different characteristics, or something like that. you just cant play that way competitively. sure the new chess would be fun for people who just want to mess with the game, but imagine it from the competitive player's perspective.

Wow,You're good at the game,so what?You eliminated game mechanics to do so.(Environmental Hazards and Items.)While most players will say "But that simply adds luck!" Tell me this:When it comes down two players of the exact same "skill level" what does this fight come down to?Dumb luck thats what.Waiting for the first player to make the first mistake.

ok you might want to think about this a little more.

look, the goal of this game is to knock your opponent off the stage. usually a good place to start is hitting him. BUT! there's a problem: he doesn't want you to hit him, and in fact, he wants to hit YOU. so it's not as simple as just running up and hitting your opponent with whatever you want, right? you at first might want to say "alright, i want to hit him, so im gonna run up there and mash A." but if he knows that's coming, he can easily counter this, instead of just doing the same thing as you.

so let's recap: the goal is to knock you're opponent off the stage, and you're going to want to start by hitting him. but hitting him isn't so easy, is it? surprising. in order to land a hit on him, you're going to have to OUT MINDGAME HIM. you can make him think you're just going to run in with a dash attack, but really you've already got a counter set up for his counter. and then another aspect is this: when you land a hit on your opponent, you can COMBO into something else. so these two things generally dictate how much damage you can do to your opponent: how often you beat him in mindgames and how well you take advantage of winning the mindgame by following up with combos.

obviously when pros play, the mindgames are much more intricate then just counters for dash attacks. and they have combos memorized for almost all situations, and are always improving their combo game to best take advantage of anytime they win a mindgame. so the point is, when the two players are having a mind game, trying to land a hit, eventually one person will get hit. and they got hit for one of two reasons: they either messed up what they were trying to do (like failing the execution of a move) or they LOST the mindgame. WHAT?! you mean they can't just tell their opponent the reason they're winning because they got lucky? wtf no johns?!?! yes, they got beat fair and square. "but what about the other option?" you might ask. "if my opponent only landed a hit on me because i messed up, then just got more lucky then me! that's not fair!" look, tubby. it's like this: how often you mess up is dictated by how much you practice. why would someone ever practice in the first place? other than experimenting to find new things, it's to be consistent with what they can do. so they don't mess up as often. if someone practices more than you, then you can't complain about them being more lucky then you. luck has nothing to do with it. it's like a person who doesn't really play piano complaining that it isn't fair how much better dhsu is than them. he practices more, so he's better.

now if two people who play competitively have to play with items on, that completely ruins the fairness. what happens if at the end of a close match, the match is ended because a crate dropped on someone's head? when someone has practiced their combos to perfection, having certain combos prepared for every situation, is it fair that random items or random things in the stage ruin their combos?

we play our we, you play yours. why do people who play casually want everyone who plays competitively to play with items and chaotic stages? that's kind of greedy. you want the game to be ruined for the entire tournament scene, just so you can be happy knowing that everyone in the world plays the game the way you do? oh well, doesn't matter becaues it's not happening.


also wtf is with this hyrule crap haha hyrule sucks

[wormguy]

Your argument is flawed because items present mind games much in the same way that a fist fight does. Will I slash you with the beam sword? Will I dodge and throw it at you instead? You get the idea.

It's not like items are completely random either - they're designed to fit within the game mechanics. You can hardly say that there are overpowered items, because all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Removing items in Smash Bros. is like removing supers in Street Fighter. You're eliminating a huge part of the gameplay. If people want to bitch and moan about the "cheapness" of items, that's their problem. You didn't counter the item's effect correctly, so you lost. Deal.

Also, capitalizing things makes them easier to read, especially in a giant post like that.

[TheCatPhysician]

Also, capitalizing things makes them easier to read, especially in a giant post like that.

Sorry.

Your argument is flawed because items present mind games much in the same way that a fist fight does. Will I slash you with the beam sword? Will I dodge and throw it at you instead? You get the idea.

First of all, certain characters DO naturally have items/projectiles, but these characters are meant to have the items they have, and were taken into the consideration of the balance of the game. "Will I slash you with the beam sword?" That's pretty much saying "Am I going to use a close range attack?" Only certain characters were designed to be able to pose the question, "Will I attack you close range or use a projectile?"

It's not like items are completely random either - they're designed to fit within the game mechanics. You can hardly say that there are overpowered items, because all have their strengths and weaknesses.Items are COMPLETELY random. So are the crates that drop out of nowhere and tend to drop right on one player's head.

Removing items in Smash Bros. is like removing supers in Street Fighter. You're eliminating a huge part of the gameplay. I hear people say this all the time; items are part of the game, and you're taking them out. Now, try to be open minded about this. Items throw off the balance of the game. BADLY. Does this matter for people who play casually and don't care? NO. So these people can play with items - it makes the game more fun for them. I'm perfectly fine with that. More power to them. But Melee is able to be played like a party game, AND a competitive fighter. Listen:

Items were put into the game.

So was the option to turn them off.


This isn't rocket science, folks. People can play casually or seriously.


If people want to bitch and moan about the "cheapness" of items, that's their problem.Items throw off the balance of the game, that's a fact. Some people don't like this, and they have good reason, for the way they play. Remember what I said about the Chess players? This is ridiculous. I mean if they made a version of Chess that had lots of fun random things that happened, some people would like it more than regular Chess. There are a lot of people who are very competitive with Chess though, so obviously there would be people who play regular Chess, and people who play chaotic Chess. That should be fine with everyone. You can choose which way you wish to play. But for the chaotic Chess players to demand that chaotic Chess be the only way to play is outrageous! Why would they want to ruin it for the people who play competitively?

You didn't counter the item's effect correctly, so you lost. Deal.

You can't always counter the item's effect correctly. Crates randomly fall on people's heads. Also, like I said earlier, certain items with certain characters completely throw off the balance of the game. Marth for instance has no projectiles, but for a reason. His attacks have incredible range, and he has really good priority. In terms of balance, he sacrifices projectiles for something else. If two Marth players who have practiced everything they could and had all the best combos for every single situation memorized and everything, a ray gun or something just being randomly handed to one of them is ridiculous.

Items are completely random, and it's not a matter of having to be good enough to deal with them. Go give a grandmaster of Chess a version of this chaotic chess with random crap that happens and say "Hey, if you're actually good you'd be able to deal with the randomness." It doesn't work like that.

[Pi_R_[]ed]

Items are completely random, and it's not a matter of having to be good enough to deal with them. Go give a grandmaster of Chess a version of this chaotic chess with random crap that happens and say "Hey, if you're actually good you'd be able to deal with the randomness." It doesn't work like that.

Well, yeah. But it's not like every time you start a game, the amp is re-arranged, either. Items can throw a curve that adds the need for adaptation. If a Marth player is given a ray gun, and the opponent is a serious enough player to give a crap, he also should care enough to have trained to the point that it doesn't matter what the enemy has.

'sides, he could always just run to the other side of Hyrule Castle.:roll:

[Red Shadow]

all this argument about whats what in tournament play is part of the reason i dont care all that much to participate in it, by the way

[Dexie]

I hear people say this all the time; items are part of the game, and you're taking them out. Now, try to be open minded about this. Items throw off the balance of the game. BADLY. Does this matter for people who play casually and don't care? NO. So these people can play with items - it makes the game more fun for them. I'm perfectly fine with that. More power to them. But Melee is able to be played like a party game, AND a competitive fighter. Listen:

Yeah, cause we all know how balanced Melee is, even without items.

[FuriousFure]

I mean if they made a version of Chess that had lots of fun random things that happened, some people would like it more than regular Chess. There are a lot of people who are very competitive with Chess though, so obviously there would be people who play regular Chess, and people who play chaotic Chess. That should be fine with everyone. You can choose which way you wish to play. But for the chaotic Chess players to demand that chaotic Chess be the only way to play is outrageous! Why would they want to ruin it for the people who play competitively?




first of all. what your saying with the chess analogy is that SSB was balanced before the addition of items in the programming stage. like taking chess then adding randomness. you see, ssb was made with the randomness in mind. it's a part of the game.
the fact that you can turn the items off doesn't make no-item games be the "serious" game. turning them off just shows the customization that is optional. all poke-balls? sure! hammers and stars? suure! nothing at all? sure! everything on high? absolutely! if you think the game was meant to be played no-items why does it come with the settings on medium with everything on? if you think that the games is super unbalance with items, what you are saying that ssb is unbalanced completely. items help those characters round themselve out.
if your truely want be good at the game, you need to know how to fight without a weapon because the items are random, but that is a part of the game. to say one variant of the games original state is idiotic. why not just say Giant Melee is the true way of playing? or One Button Melee? why not One Button Melee? you know, because those other buttons just throw off the balance of the game.

[chrono26]

Yeah, cause we all know how balanced Melee is, even without items.

thats true but even the charecters that they make too good have a weakness of some kind. for example fox is way too fast and can get smashes off easily, but he falls like an anchor. but still the game is far from "balanced" and thats all part of the fun.

[Akaisen]

There seem to be a lot of people who like items taking offense at people saying "playing without items is the true way to play." I do not think anyone is actually saying this.

What we are trying to say is that in a tournament where the point is to determine who is the best - doesn't it make more sense to limit random aspects to increase fairness to both players?

What would the benefit to turning the items on be in a tournament? People have said that a good player should be able to compensate for unexpected developments and this is true. But, I don't think you would disagree that enabled items can randomly give a benefit to a player, and that it would not necessarily balance out over the course of a few games. It a contest with a large prize at stake, do you really think such a way of playing would be fair?

[cobaltstarfire]

Items are COMPLETELY random. So are the crates that drop out of nowhere and tend to drop right on one player's head.



I thought you could turn off crates/barrels? I can't honestly remember, haven't touched the game in about a year and a half...

[Akaisen]

I thought you could turn off crates/barrels? I can't honestly remember, haven't touched the game in about a year and a half...

If any item is turned on then crates/barrels are also turned on.

[wormguy]

I don't understand this. I'm good enough to win fights with or without items. It's that simple. In what I've seen, whether items are on or off has no bearing on a player's skill; the same people who win do well. The people who do badly do badly. It's not like I'll win five fights in a row and then as soon as items are turned on my opponent starts winning.




First of all, certain characters DO naturally have items/projectiles, but these characters are meant to have the items they have, and were taken into the consideration of the balance of the game. "Will I slash you with the beam sword?" That's pretty much saying "Am I going to use a close range attack?" Only certain characters were designed to be able to pose the question, "Will I attack you close range or use a projectile?"




Items are COMPLETELY random. So are the crates that drop out of nowhere and tend to drop right on one player's head.

So what if they appear randomly? Oh, look, a crate spawned above me. I'd better dodge to get out of the way. Action/reaction. Simple as that.


I hear people say this all the time; items are part of the game, and you're taking them out. Now, try to be open minded about this. Items throw off the balance of the game. BADLY. Does this matter for people who play casually and don't care? NO. So these people can play with items - it makes the game more fun for them. I'm perfectly fine with that. More power to them. But Melee is able to be played like a party game, AND a competitive fighter. Listen:

Items were put into the game.

So was the option to turn them off.


This isn't rocket science, folks. People can play casually or seriously.



You say that items throw off the balance of the game badly. Personally, I never see this happen, because all of the items themselves are balanced. The home run bat does ludicrous damage, but it's slow as all hell. A good player can avoid that. The fan is quick, but does low damage and has low stopping power. But it can break shields. The star rod has projectiles and bludgeoning capability, but its projectiles are slow-moving and have a large charge time. THERE IS A COUNTER TO EVERY ITEM. USE IT.

We're not talking about instant-kill rocket launchers here, folks. These items fit within the game because they themselves are balanced. It doesn't matter if they appear randomly.


Items throw off the balance of the game, that's a fact. Some people don't like this, and they have good reason, for the way they play. Remember what I said about the Chess players? This is ridiculous. I mean if they made a version of Chess that had lots of fun random things that happened, some people would like it more than regular Chess. There are a lot of people who are very competitive with Chess though, so obviously there would be people who play regular Chess, and people who play chaotic Chess. That should be fine with everyone. You can choose which way you wish to play. But for the chaotic Chess players to demand that chaotic Chess be the only way to play is outrageous! Why would they want to ruin it for the people who play competitively?


Chess is completely, 100% based on strategy. Putting items and stuff into it would be completely ridiculous. But this is Super Smash Bros. we're talking about here. It's not like the items make no sense within the game's context.


First of all, certain characters DO naturally have items/projectiles, but these characters are meant to have the items they have, and were taken into the consideration of the balance of the game. "Will I slash you with the beam sword?" That's pretty much saying "Am I going to use a close range attack?" Only certain characters were designed to be able to pose the question, "Will I attack you close range or use a projectile?"



You can't always counter the item's effect correctly. Crates randomly fall on people's heads. Also, like I said earlier, certain items with certain characters completely throw off the balance of the game. Marth for instance has no projectiles, but for a reason. His attacks have incredible range, and he has really good priority. In terms of balance, he sacrifices projectiles for something else. If two Marth players who have practiced everything they could and had all the best combos for every single situation memorized and everything, a ray gun or something just being randomly handed to one of them is ridiculous.


What you're saying is that items give characters abilities they shouldn't have had earlier. But EVERY ITEM HAS A WEAKNESS. Look, Marth is a close-range character. Now he has a ray gun. So, yes, he has a capability he didn't have before. But, the ray gun has the same effect as with any other character. Other players can defend against the projectiles. It's not like Marth gets a super-power ability with the ray gun that no other character has. It's the same damn ray gun. Counter it.


Items are completely random, and it's not a matter of having to be good enough to deal with them. Go give a grandmaster of Chess a version of this chaotic chess with random crap that happens and say "Hey, if you're actually good you'd be able to deal with the randomness." It doesn't work like that.

And by the very nature of random items, it ensures fairness. Do you think it's possible that one player will get every single item every match? No. Also, battles over coveted items also provide a bit of strategy. Do I make a run for the beam sword, or take a defensive stance? It adds mind games.

The chess analogy doesn't work simply because chess is designed to be a completely strategic experience. Items fit within Smash Bros.' context. Every one has a strength and a weakness. Use them to your advantage.

[!Nekko!]

all this argument about whats what in tournament play is part of the reason i dont care all that much to participate in it, by the way

I agree to some extent, but maybe most competitive players aren't like this. It just seems like they're playing to boost their ego more than having fun. That's why I don't play in most tournaments.

[Zup]

I don't honestly understand why people get an "ego" from playing a video game.

A VIDEO GAME.

Now, I'm saying that with the idea that I've been playing video games for a long time and I'm fairly good at some of them. But being arrogant because you can beat someone at a video game? That's pretty ludicrous. That's why I laugh when I play Halo and completely suck, and people call it "skill." The only skills learned from a video game are those pertinent to THAT video game.

Being a good sniper in Halo doesn't mean you'll be great with a sniper rifle in real life, nor does ultra-leet Smashing skills translate over in to real life.

It's a fricken game, stop taking it so seriously.

(BTW, I agree with the items people. Items make the game fun)

[Aninymouse]

I used to buy into that no items battlefield junk back in the day, when I was playing smash every day and trying to get a lot better. Nowadays, the only thing I like to turn off is the Ice Climber level since it's kind of annoying. That's it. Most people dislikethat level, though, to be honest, the sheer ammount of high vertical jumps that are required for the level really make certain characters shine that otherwise are difficult to play on mainly level playing fields, such as Mewtwo or Ness.

[friendlyHunter]

What's with the arguing?? And why on earth am I reading it...? :oops:

Nobody's telling anybody to play a certain way (but if you really are, then DON'T!!), and they can't force you to play a certain way from all the way on the other end of the internet tubes, so who cares? I'm scared to see what kind of dumb debates will spring up online in Brawl *shudder*


But to add to the debate (ACK, what am I doing??!?!) - while the chess analogy is pretty damn good, it's not solid. Here's a sports analogy: Imagine a game of pro soccer where barells would randomly appear on random players for no apparent reason. And if the player happens to be kicking the ball when a barrel appears on them (and it often does), they explode into a massive fireball reaching 10 meters into the air - and are subsiquently too injured to play.

Is that fair? NO! Is it fun? MAYBE, if you have some kind of sick yearning for random chaos and injury. People have different tastes - but in a tournament, there's no reason items should be manditory. Evening the playing field for competition calls for rules, and often, elimination of unfair randomness.


(Rant time!) And I seriously hope barells/boxes/capsules/ exploding those things can be individually turned off in Brawl... actually, I hope they're not even in the game (OH NOES I'm hoping to limit the way everyone else plays SSBB =O !!). Hey, here's an idea: the default items in Brawl could actually be good and fun, but there could be an option to turn on the "classic" items and exploding barrel-death-traps-of-doom for those players who can't let go of the past. It's my opinion that the items and their attrocious containers (coupled with dumb AI) ruined the single player adventure/classic/allstars/whatever modes... you can't "adapt" to things appearing in front of you after you start a move, and killing you before you finish it.


BTW I suck at SSBM, and I very well may never have played it without items (what can I say, they often make it more enjoyable)

[Pi_R_[]ed]

Well, in soccer, if you get blown up, good luck using your legs again. In Smash Bros, its just a matter of either playing real good till a healing item show up.

EDIT: Or learn to recover from far hits

[TheCatPhysician]

ed;237377']Well, yeah. But it's not like every time you start a game, the amp is re-arranged, either. Items can throw a curve that adds the need for adaptation. If a Marth player is given a ray gun, and the opponent is a serious enough player to give a crap, he also should care enough to have trained to the point that it doesn't matter what the enemy has.

'sides, he could always just run to the other side of Hyrule Castle.:roll:
Ok first of all, nobody who plays competitively plays Hyrule. That stage is horrible. The main stages played competitively are Final Destination, Dreamland, Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, and Pokemon Stadium. And then we have this crap:

If a Marth player is given a ray gun, and the opponent is a serious enough player to give a crap, he also should care enough to have trained to the point that it doesn't matter what the enemy has. You really must not be putting much thought into this...just think about this for a second. If two masters of the game are playing each other - two people who BOTH try to be as good as humanly possible - then it isn't about "well a good player can play against anything." They are going to want to fight a FAIR match so that they can determine who the winner is without knowing that the person who won only won because of sheer luck with items.


first of all. what your saying with the chess analogy is that SSB was balanced before the addition of items in the programming stage. like taking chess then adding randomness. you see, ssb was made with the randomness in mind. it's a part of the game.

This doesn't make sense. Can you clarify what randomness they had in mind before items and crazy stages? SSB has a wonderful balanced system of fighting. On top of that basic system, you can add items and crazy stages which just make the game chaotic and everything.


the fact that you can turn the items off doesn't make no-item games be the "serious" game. Thanks for reading my posts. Really, thanks. I guess you didn't even read the big text I put in, so I'll explain this again: I'm not saying everyone should play without items! I've said this before, and tried to make it very clear. I am being told to "stop being a baby and turn on items." Remember my first post in this argument? I responded to that with this: but seriously, the game can be played 2 different ways. i dont see why that's so hard to accept. items are in the game, so is the option to turn them off. im fine knowing that some people play the game different than the way i do, and use items and crazy stages. im glad they are enjoying the game. you're the one whos saying "NO EVERYONE MUST PLAY THE WAY I DO" so who's the baby?

Moving on...
turning them off just shows the customization that is optional. all poke-balls? sure! hammers and stars? suure! nothing at all? sure! everything on high? absolutely! As I have said before, I'm completely fine knowing that people play with items. I am not trying to force my way of playing on people who play casually. You play with items and have more fun? Good for you! I'm glad that you are enjoying the game too. I play competitively, where items have no place. I have fun without items, and we both have fun.


if you think the game was meant to be played no-items why does it come with the settings on medium with everything on? Again, you really must have not read my posts at all. I never said there was one single way to play the game. In fact, I said the opposite. Right at the beginning of my first post. And in big letters in the second one. And a few more times throughout my posts. I've been trying to make that clear enough, but apparently I'm failing.

if you think that the games is super unbalance with items, what you are saying that ssb is unbalanced completely. items help those characters round themselve out. What?

if your truely want be good at the game, you need to know how to fight without a weapon because the items are random, but that is a part of the game. Items are part of the game, so is turning them off.

to say one variant of the games original state is idiotic. why not just say Giant Melee is the true way of playing? or One Button Melee? why not One Button Melee? you know, because those other buttons just throw off the balance of the game.Again, I'm not saying my way is the only way to play the game.



---------



Ugh...I think I'm going to stop quoting every little thing to respond now. This takes too long. Onto Akaisen's post: Exactly. Maybe this guy is better at wording it then I am, but this guy is addressing the huge misconception here.

Wormguy's post starts out more or less saying that whether items or on or off, the good people generally win and the bad people generally lose. This is true, but remember we're talking competitive Smash here. Competitive...competing. All the top players in tournaments are very close in skill, and items would totally decide the matches. Not good. Takes the fun out of playing competitively. No matter how much each of them practices, there is still a huge factor of luck. When someone has a problem with messing up certain moves, or doesn't have good combos, they can fix that with practice. But no matter how much you practice, you can't do anything about your opponent literally getting lucky with items. It's...yeah. Refer to Akaisen's post.

Then he says it's no big deal that items spawn rapidly, and a crate exploding on your head is solved as simply as dodging away. Maybe for psychics, lol. You don't have enough time to dodge.

Now the next part you write about, wormguy, is important. There is a misunderstanding about me saying items throw off the balance of the game. I should have made this more clear. You are saying that each item has its own strengths and weaknesses, so you just have to learn about each item and be able to use it effectively. That's reasonable, but that's not why I'm saying it throws off the balance of the game. It throws off the balance of the game because they randomly give huge advantages to players. Think of someone like Samus who is already balanced to have projectiles. She sacrifices for projectiles, while Marth on the other hand sacrifices projectiles for other things. So what if a Marth is fighting a Samus, and a really good projectile appears next to the Marth? Wow, what a jip for the Samus, huh? Marth doesn't sacrifice anything for projectiles while Samus does, and yet here is Marth with a better projectile than Samus, still not sacrificing anything for it. Now you might be saying "Well I know I'm good in my group of players. No matter what items they get I can still beat them because I'm that much better." But you don't realize how close the meta game is in tournaments. Just trust me, it really really makes a difference there.


Now the next thing you say is pretty important so I'm gonna quote it:

Chess is completely, 100% based on strategy. Putting items and stuff into it would be completely ridiculous. But this is Super Smash Bros. we're talking about here. It's not like the items make no sense within the game's context.So you agree that putting items in Chess is a no-no. Now you say this isn't the same thing with Smash Bros. because it's frigg'n Smash Bros. Trust me, I know where your coming from. I know Melee is really fun to get four people together with all items on with crazy stages and just have fun with all the chaos. But Melee is ALSO able to be played competitively. Underneath all the items and crazy stages that make Melee so fun for certain people, there is a beautiful fighting system. That's why there are neutral stages, and the option to turn items off. It's for people who want to play that way. To play like competitive Chess players play Chess, or the way professional Street Fighter players play Street Fighter. Street Fighter is a great comparison because it is also a fighting game, and you can probably agree that items would be ridiculous to add to Street Fighter for the competitive players, just like it would be with Chess.

Hmm...I might get to some of the other posts later. I hope we have reached an agreement though, wormguy. I respect that you like to play with items, and I would never want to force you to change the way you play.

[BigBoss]

You're all retarded.

The items and levels are what make Smash Bros such a fun game. 'Playing competitively' is essentially saying remove all the fun shite so that little kiddies wont bitch that they got owned by a Star Rod or an Arwing.

[atmuh]

You're all retarded.

The items and levels are what make Smash Bros such a fun game. 'Playing competitively' is essentially saying remove all the fun shite so that little kiddies wont bitch that they got owned by a Star Rod or an Arwing.
yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[Murmeli Walan]

What's with the arguing?? And why on earth am I reading it...? :oops:

The lack of Brawl info is driving the SSB community to the point of insanity. Arguing about items and stages is the only thing that saves us.

[BigBoss]

The lack of Brawl info is driving the SSB community to the point of insanity. Arguing about items and stages is the only thing that saves us.

GIVE ME MY PIT

[Vig]

I find it amazing how seriously you people take this game.

[TheCatPhysician]

You're all retarded.

The items and levels are what make Smash Bros such a fun game. 'Playing competitively' is essentially saying remove all the fun shite so that little kiddies wont bitch that they got owned by a Star Rod or an Arwing.

trolls lol

It's too bad you wont back that up though. I'd like to see you go to a tournament and own these little kiddies with the star rod. I'm sure any one of them would gladly money match you with items on for over $100.


lololol now here's the part where you make an excuse about why you won't do it. awww, the poor baby is scared to money match a little kiddie.

[Ferret]

I find it amazing how seriously you people take this game.


*throws the Home Run Bat at Vig's face while rushing in to do a Running A followed by a Forward Smash*

That's right. I went there.

No but seriously, we do like us some Smash Brothers. Let's evaluate each other. Which I don't know when it should be...but yes! Let's!

[Pi_R_[]ed]

The lack of Brawl info is driving the SSB community to the point of insanity. Arguing about items and stages is the only thing that saves us.GIVE ME MY PIT

Seriously, I could go for some news, or a new character. Actually, something that's had an interesting absence: New items. All we know about is a puppy.

Good job, Nintendo, a puppy.

And, hey, how's that supposed to make the game more fair for one character?

Speaking of which, an interesting question regarding the "super smash" attacks, or whatever they're being called. Think they'll be shut off for tournament play?

Oh noes, no fair! My characters slower, so I couldn't reach it before you!

[FuriousFure]

isn't poker completely random? how could something completely based on randomness be considered fair? hmmmm. oh WAIT!

lets see, because all the people have the same chances of getting hit with certain cards. all depening where they're sitting and depending on how many cards the previous person took.

so randomness can still be present to see who is the "best" player. as long as the randomness is truely random. like a toss of the dice, everyone has he same odds. (which ssb is) and not biased towards a character or player. those items would appear where they do completely seperate to whats happening in the game. then randomness doesn't need to be removed for it to be fair or judge of whose the best at the game who was made with this randomness as its base.

[cobaltstarfire]

like a toss of the dice, everyone has he same odds. (which ssb is) and not biased towards a character or player.

Not to get too much into this debate (which is pointless imo) but some characters are more lethal with items than others.

[TheCatPhysician]

isn't poker completely random? how could something completely based on randomness be considered fair? hmmmm. oh WAIT!

lets see, because all the people have the same chances of getting hit with certain cards. all depening where they're sitting and depending on how many cards the previous person took.

so randomness can still be present to see who is the "best" player. as long as the randomness is truely random. like a toss of the dice, everyone has he same odds. (which ssb is) and not biased towards a character or player. those items would appear where they do completely seperate to whats happening in the game. then randomness doesn't need to be removed for it to be fair or judge of whose the best at the game who was made with this randomness as its base.

You can only get so good at poker. Luck still plays a huge part, which sucks. Fighting games are not like Poker. Neither is Chess. Why can't randomness be present in Street Fighter and Chess to determine who is the best, but it can be in Smash? This is getting old, just face it - items aren't good for tournaments/competitive play. Doesn't mean you and your friends can't use them. Doesn't mean items aren't great for having a blast with your friends at a party.

Oh, and to the guy who's trying to start something about supers in Brawl for tournaments or whatever. Nobody knows exactly how those things work yet. If it's just an item, it will most likely be turned off with the other ones. Haha Kirby's super is awesome.

[Global-Trance]

^
^
What he said.

Items in Smash shouldn't be a factor of determining sheer skill in the game. I wouldn't chalk it up to skill if you won because that Starman spawned right on top of you.

[The Author]

Items in SSB actually do play a part in deciding who is the best. "Oh, a homerun bat has appeared, how can I get to it before my foe?"

[!Nekko!]

Unless you're Captain Falcon who totally gets the shaft on using the baseball bat.

Anyway, what is the next possible date for Nintendo announcing anything or a big conference that Nintendo is going to attend so I can mark my calendar?

[G_D]

It's Nintendo. They don't do calendars.

[wormguy]

Unless you're Captain Falcon who totally gets the shaft on using the baseball bat.

WRONG. Falcon's bat attack ROCKS.

[Sir_NutS]

This talk about items no items is completely retarded. Nintendo should release information soon or all these kids will go nuts.

[Broken]

It's the game industry . They don't do calendars.

And will you people PLEASE stop arguing about how smash is supposed to be played. It's a moot point because none of us really know what the programmers had in mind when they put all of these options in. (My best guess is they wanted the game to be very open-ended.)

If you don't play the game the way the competitive community does, then great, really, I'm just glad people are still playing the game; Items or no items, it's still fun, but if you want to argue whether or not the no items/stage specific/best 3 of 5 game type is a good judge of skill, then argue your point on Smashboards.com. That site is full of LOTS of other people who play the game and have their own opinions on this stuff. Posting about it here really isn't going to acomplish much.

All this meaningless discussion has completely drifted from what I was posting in (and re-bumping) this for in the first place; Smash is at EVO. And that's a good thing IMO.

[TheCatPhysician]

And will you people PLEASE stop arguing about how smash is supposed to be played. It's a moot point because none of us really know what the programmers had in mind when they put all of these options in. (My best guess is they wanted the game to be very open-ended.)Just so people don't get the wrong idea (which like everyone in this thread who replied to me has), I was NOT arguing for what is the way the game is supposed to be played. I was being told by Atmuh that playing without items is wrong, which implies that items on is how smash is supposed to be played. In response, I am saying that there is no one way to play Melee. Everyone should play it whichever way they like.



All this meaningless discussion has completely drifted from what I was posting in (and re-bumping) this for in the first place; Smash is at EVO. And that's a good thing IMO.I know! Are you going? I'm up for a money match if we meet each other.

[Ferret]

Items in SSB actually do play a part in deciding who is the best. "Oh, a homerun bat has appeared, how can I get to it before my foe?"

The real thing to think of is "Okay, my foe now has a powerful item that can deliver one-hit knockouts. How do I work around that?" Or better yet, "how can I deny him the item to begin with, short of grabbing it myself?" Using an item presents its own risks and rewards; if it is used improperly it can be your downfall instead of your salvation. Case in point, bob-ombs and proximity mines...

[ILLiterate]

All this meaningless discussion has completely drifted from what I was posting in (and re-bumping) this for in the first place; Smash is at EVO. And that's a good thing IMO.Which is fantastic. Now I has mah SSB & SF in one place for happy fun good times

[Broken]

Just so people don't get the wrong idea (which like everyone in this thread who replied to me has), I was NOT arguing for what is the way the game is supposed to be played. I was being told by Atmuh that playing without items is wrong, which implies that items on is how smash is supposed to be played. In response, I am saying that there is no one way to play Melee. Everyone should play it whichever way they like.



I know! Are you going? I'm up for a money match if we meet each other.

I'm afraid not, comrade. I mean if by some stroke of luck I'm anywhere near any of the events, then I'll make an effort to attend, but I can't travell very far at all right now.

[KWarp]

I played through Classic and Adventure mode in Melee today. It's been around three years since I last played them so it almost felt new to me. My heart rate was up and I was sweating it pretty hard. Giga Bowser's tough stuff. :nicework:

[Thalzon]

I played some smash with some other residence guys tonight. I was clearly better than them, but one of the guys did play a mean Ganondorf.

Talking to him, though, was another matter. Though it didn't bother me, I did notice he (Ganondorf player) bitched a lot while playing. It's a habit, I used to talk trash too, so I didn't hold it against him. Thing is, though, he believes all those lousy internet rumours about the next secret characters (the old Ridley, Wind Waker Link, and Bowser Jr. one) so discussing the possibilities of the next game with him was none too pleasant.

Oh well. I still had fun. Didn't feel too intensely competitive, either.

... Yeah. Go Smash Bros, woo.

[TheCatPhysician]

Oh well. I still had fun. Didn't feel too intensely competitive, either.


ZOMG YOU DIDNT PLAY WITH ITEMS DID YOU?!! THATS NOT TEH ONE AND ONLY TRUE WAY TO PLAY MELEE!!!!

i will not rest until everyone plays smash bros the exact same way i do go ahead and argue with me lololol

[Bahamut]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3151290

New characters announced in SSBB.

[!Nekko!]

I spotted this on digg today in another link that used 1up as a source (which was from 6/07/06 anyway).
http://www.thetanooki.com/2007/03/04/smash-bros-brawl-character-confirmations-and-desires/

However...
UPDATE: Apparently the 1UP.com source was just an old rumor. For now, don’t take anything involving these characters as confirmations in either direction, in or out. However, the Ogawa comment regarding Sonic still stands.


Someone also noted that it was created in some fan forum and posted on some french blog and snowballed from there. I know I was excited when I first saw this too.

[Merk]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3151290

New characters announced in SSBB.
By Dan Dormer (http://www.1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5693862), 06/07/2006I guess Old News is the only news we can get about SSBB

[Theory of N]

neither of those links are working for me anyway :(

[dsx100]

I wish I could go to EVO but I have school and I don't think I'll have the time. Distantance is not an issue here becuase I live in Texas and there is a qualifying tournamnet in Austin. Anyway, it doesn't matter, I know I would have lost early on.

By the way Cat, I completely understand what your saying. It is like I am the only one that read there is NO RIGHT or NO WRONG way to play smash bros. I like to turn off items every now and then just to see who really is better between my brother and I. Items sometimes tend screw us both in the middle of a big match, which leaves things unsettled between us. Anyway, to really understand the whole item thing, you really need to play other fighting games competively.

[supremespleen]

I know the guy that runs thetanooki.

[Priceless Productions]

looking forward to this game

[Broken]

I wish I could go to EVO but I have school and I don't think I'll have the time. Distantance is not an issue here becuase I live in Texas and there is a qualifying tournamnet in Austin. Anyway, it doesn't matter, I know I would have lost early on.

By the way Cat, I completely understand what your saying. It is like I am the only one that read there is NO RIGHT or NO WRONG way to play smash bros. I like to turn off items every now and then just to see who really is better between my brother and I. Items sometimes tend screw us both in the middle of a big match, which leaves things unsettled between us. Anyway, to really understand the whole item thing, you really need to play other fighting games competively.

Now, maybe I was smoking something when I read this, but I believe the Texas tournament has free entry for all games, and that would be reason enough for me to go if I were that close by. You'll want to check the website to make sure, but how awesome would that be?
Hmm, I'll invest $0 in this tournament in hopes of winning 1'000s.

I'd enter some random game that I have no skill in (i.e. SF2: Turbo) and be like....YOU READY FOR THE PAIN TRAIN???
(and then be quickly double-eliminated....or not?)

[Tenucha]

I like my normal line up of Luigi, Falco and Princess Zelda so I'm looking foward to seeing how those 3 will fight in this new game.

I actually really wanna see Funky Kong show up as a playable character opposite Donkey Kong.

I'm also really looking foward to what new franchise characters are available and if Waluigi will be included in here... since Wario is confirmed

[Falcovsleon20]

Funky Kong? I like Funky and all but that's a poor choice for a second DK representive. Maybe a trophy but not a character.

Diddy needs to be the second in line for DK characters as playability goes.

[Tenucha]

Nahh it's all about Funky!
Surfer Kong repair man kinda guy... it be great to see what kind of moves he would get.
I'll assume we'll be seeing Diddy and or Dixie at somepoint.
I actually was thinking it be cool to get a Diddy/Dixie combo going like Ice Climbers

[JackKieser]

Man, I've just read some of the past few pages and, I've got to say, I really am sad to hear so many of you guys arguing about how to play Smash and what is or isn't fun.

I got to the Digipen Institute of Technology in Redmond, WA. About 850 gamers (a good portion of which consider themselves "hardcore") under one roof. You wanna talk competitive? MLG has nothing on these people; they play for money, while some of these guys play for limbs.

Every Friday some of the Seniors host Smash Club, where, as I'm sure you can guess, people get together to play Melee. About 35 - 40 people every week cram into a small classroom made to hold about 25 people, just to play Smash. You wanna know how they play?

Every way conceivable.

The casual guys play all sorts of crazy themed matches. The hardcore competitive players play no items on a few select stages. We make up event matches and time each other. We play in no specific way. Whatever floats our boats at the time, that's how we play.

There is NO right way to play Smash; that's not how the game was made.

You wanna know the truth? When it comes to pure skill, if you REALLY want to find out who is the most skilled at their character, you CAN'T have items on, because items interfere with your display of mastery of a character's moveset and how well you can utilize those moves to counter any other player.

You want to have fun? Play any way you want. Items are there to make things chaotic. That's their function. Not to make the fighting engine any deeper, not to provide complements to fighting styles; they exist for pure randomness.

That's it. End of story.

--Jack Kieser

[Theory of N]

a diddy/dixie combo is very unlikely. The reason why the ice climbers are together like that is because they're pretty much exactly the same and they were always together. Diddy/Dixie were only together in one game, pretty much. If they made the characters like this, they'd probably also go with a Mario/Luigi, Pikachu/Pichu, Fox/Falco, or a Marth/Roy combo or something.

[anthonium]

a diddy/dixie combo is very unlikely. The reason why the ice climbers are together like that is because they're pretty much exactly the same and they were always together. Diddy/Dixie were only together in one game, pretty much. If they made the characters like this, they'd probably also go with a Mario/Luigi, Pikachu/Pichu, Fox/Falco, or a Marth/Roy combo or something.

Hmm now that you put it that way, maybe they can do tagteaming in this game...what would normally be four players would be 8. Just a thought. I don't know if that would work well with smash brothers. heh.

[Theory of N]

Hmm now that you put it that way, maybe they can do tagteaming in this game...what would normally be four players would be 8. Just a thought. I don't know if that would work well with smash brothers. heh.

Ha. I'm sure if they wanted to, they'd find a way. This is very possible. It would add an interesting new element to the game. I was talking about single characters. But what if you tag teamed two ice climbers >.> You'd be in control of 4 characters lol.

[dsx100]

Now, maybe I was smoking something when I read this, but I believe the Texas tournament has free entry for all games, and that would be reason enough for me to go if I were that close by. You'll want to check the website to make sure, but how awesome would that be?
Hmm, I'll invest $0 in this tournament in hopes of winning 1'000s.

I'd enter some random game that I have no skill in (i.e. SF2: Turbo) and be like....YOU READY FOR THE PAIN TRAIN???
(and then be quickly double-eliminated....or not?)

Yeah it is free but agian, money is not the issue. Its the time I have on my hands. I have alot of school related work and activities I need to address. Although now that I think about it, It might actually be worth making time for because their 2 other games I would like participate in. I am actually pretty decent at Tekken 5 and Street Fighter III 3rd Strike. I won't win but it sure as hell would be fun to try.

[ILLiterate]

Ha. I'm sure if they wanted to, they'd find a way. This is very possible. It would add an interesting new element to the game. I was talking about single characters. But what if you tag teamed two ice climbers >.> You'd be in control of 4 characters lol.That's be nice, give each character an equal number of stocks (2 for your first, 2 for your second) and have it be a bit like MvC2, where your guy comes out with an attack and then taunts. Good times

[Murmeli Walan]

There is NO right way to play Smash; that's not how the game was made.

Amen, sir. "Serious" matches a great, but nothing beats the chaos of eight gigantic Ice Climbers grabbing Super Mushrooms all crammed together on Fountain of Dreams or those awesome Poke Floats all Pokeball fights.

Whichever way you want to play Melee is the right way.