The most bang for the buck...

[Cerrax]

I've recently been searching for a new sequencer (Garage Band has been stunning, but the lack of tempo and effects automation is driving me crazy). So with tha being said, what program will suit me best for the smallest amount of money possible?

I am running a Mac G5 1.2 GHz, 512 MB RAM, 160 GB Hard Drive; OS X Tiger 10.4

These are the programs that I know of which run on OS X:

Logic (duh)
Cubase
Reason
Metro
Pro Tools
Digital Performer
Ableton Live

I've heard a lot of good things about Logic, especially Logic Pro, but its $500. I've heard Cubase is really good too and not as expensive as Logic.
I have a lot of experience with Pro Tools, but not the music composition end of it (which I've heard is not very easy to use)
I also hear a lot of good things about Reason, but then that $500 price tag makes me sad.
Don't know much about the others, but I want to know, what should I buy that will get me what I want and not give me shit I don't need.

Basically I want to be able to: (items with a * are the most important attributes)
-VSTi support (as well as SF & SF2, possibly even AU and DLS?)
-Reverse samples
-Have variable tempo and tempo automation*
-Have effects automation (especially filters)*
-Better samples (some of GB's drums and samples just don't cut it)
-Better syths (GB also needs to give me more freedom with the synths; automation possibly?)
-Better and more effects (the amp simulation alone makes me hate GB;s built-in effects. If I can find an AU-ready program (like Logic) that would be fantastic)
-Real-time file bounce (GB has an accelerated bounce that usually creates problems when I use high-latency stuff like EWQLSO)*
-MIDI export is a great plus

[Hy Bound]

ok, i dunno, but i think this thread may be locked cuz it'll turn into a FROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTY FUCKIN LOOPS RULEZ CUZ REEZON IS FUCKIN GAY!!!!!!111!!!! Thread, but as far as i know i could be totally wrong about this, as i tend to be often...

Anywho, in my personal, non-inflammatory opinion, i am a total Reason fanboy but it doesnt do VST support so you'd have to look elsewhere for that and it also doesnt do tempo automation or audio splicing type things.

Ableton is a great host for tempo automation and vst hosting but isnt too good with audio that i can tell from my few months with it (it could, but i find the audio splicer to be rather counter-intuitive).

Logic i hear is quite good at this kinda thing but i believe its rather expensive at around $900. I would like to say ACID would work for you, but it doesnt work with Macs. I also hear cubase is pretty good, though i dont know from experience... ive never heard of Metro and know next to nothing about digital performer.

Pro Tools is the "industry standard" but you definately have to pay for the name... its quite expensive if you're lookin at anything real good/legal *buy your software * :evil: :)

I hope this helps some...

[Skrypnyk]

I'm pretty sure FLStudio CAN do most, if not all the stuff you mentioned on the list. Grantted the 'in box' samples suck ass, and even some of the synths are kinda weak, but you build from that.

Plus Fruity Producer is 149 american. FLStudio XXL is 361 (you get Sytrus and Directwave and a whole bunch of other goodies goodies though.)

Soo, yea, my 2 cents.

[Cerrax]

I am running a Mac G5 1.2 GHz, 512 MB RAM, 160 GB Hard Drive; OS X Tiger 10.4

These are the programs that I know of which run on OS X:

Logic (duh)
Cubase
Reason
Metro
Pro Tools
Digital Performer
Ableton Live

Please read. No Fruity Loops :?

[Skrypnyk]

Can FL not run on Mac??

(this would be news to me)

[Cerrax]

It would be news to me if it did. I've been keeping a keen eye out for FL OSX with no such happiness being brought to me.

[OverCoat]

Haha you guys are pretty dumb sometimes.

I think features-wise Logic and Cubase are the most diverse. I can't really say more on this subject.

You can look at in-depth reviews of all the products all over the internet. The features in your wishlist are common topics in any well-written review, and I think you might find what you're looking for in either Logic, Digital Performer, Cubase, and Ableton Live. Reason doesn't fit all your criteria but you can check it out regardless.

There are also demos available for at least some of this software!

[analoq]

let's try Logic Express (http://apple.com/logicexpress/) (what i use these days).
$300 or $150 for the non-upgradable educational version...

-VSTi support Nobody uses VSTis on OSX these days. (SF & SF2, AU, DLS?) check.
-Reverse samples check.
-Have variable tempo and tempo automation check.
-Have effects automation check.
-Better samples check.
-Better syths (automation possibly?) check, and yes.
-Better and more effects check.
-Real-time file bounce check.
-MIDI export is a great plus check.

side notes:
- changing sequencers for better samples/synths doesn't make a lot of sense. that's what 3rd party plugins are for.
you can plug all kinds of excellent samples, softsynths and effects into GarageBand because it supports AUs.

- demos! give Ableton Live a try. there is a demo of it you can download and play with. there's one for Metro as well, i think. maybe some of the other apps on that list as well.

hope that helps.
cheers.

[realpolitik]

FROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTY FUCKIN LOOPS RULEZ CUZ REEZON IS FUCKIN GAY!!!!!!111!!!!

QFE

haha.

according to the image-line site there will never be an osx version of fruity so

yeahh


get reason and rewire into cubase/logic for most of your synth needs

then buy some hot sample cds and you should be set.

[tgfoo]

I'm with analoq. Go Logic Express. I'd go for the non academic one, so you can upgrade it to the Logic Pro or at least to Logic Express 8 whenever it comes out. Plug in wise, Logic would definitely comes with the best set of included plug ins.

[Cerrax]

Sounds like Logic is the way to go (my first choice but I wanted to make sure I was right). But why Express. Shouldn't I just go for all the extra stuff of the Pro version for like $150 more?

[zircon]

Logic Pro is considerably more than $300. Think more like... $800.

[Cerrax]

They advertise Logic Pro at $500 at my local Apple Store.

EDIT--Oh wait that was Logic Pro 6. Logic Pro 7 is $999. :? :cry:

[tgfoo]

The academic version of Logic Pro 7 is $500. The problem with that is that you can't upgrade to Logic 8 with it when it comes out.

[SnappleMan]

Most bang 4 ur bux = bittorrent ROGLE


Seriously though, most people here are amateurs, they wouldn't know what to do with Logic other than treat it like FL or any other simpler sequencer. Those fancy things are made for studios who actually know what they're doing and how to utilize the full potential of stuff like the logic programmer in Cubas..... shit, I'm turning into the next Compyfag :(

[Cerrax]

Watch it SnappleMan. I think I'm just going to go with Logic Express. It's got what i need and I can always upgrade. Plus its compatible with GB source files!

[SnappleMan]

Hah, can't go wrong with Logic from what I hear. I've never used it so I can't give you an opinion on it, but on paper it seems extremely versetile.

Just always remember that it's your job to make good music, the software and everything else are just tools. Better tools will make it a little easier, but you still need a good idea of what to do (and if not, the attitude to want to learn all you can about what you're using before you really start).

[tgfoo]

Also, just to warn you. Logic does have a bit of a learning curve. There are quite a few seemingly simple tasks that are a little harder to do than I think they should be. That being said, once you figure out how to do them, it's a breeze.

[Cerrax]

Hah, can't go wrong with Logic from what I hear. I've never used it so I can't give you an opinion on it, but on paper it seems extremely versetile.

Just always remember that it's your job to make good music, the software and everything else are just tools. Better tools will make it a little easier, but you still need a good idea of what to do (and if not, the attitude to want to learn all you can about what you're using before you really start).

Yeah. I used to have Music Generator for the PS1 and it does a HELL of a lot more than Garage Band. Actually almost everything on that list I could do with Music Generator. Unfortunately, the sound is shitastic. Listen to the old stuff on my website. I know how to do a lot of stuff, but Garage Band won't let me do it! It was really "one step forward two steps back" deal. I needed much higher sound quality so I traded ultimate functionality for much higher sound.

[Zoola]

Don't forget cubase, though. I use it, its cheap (SE or SL) and effective, and very comparable to Logic. I would suggest getting a trial of both and see which interface you like best.

[SnappleMan]

Yeah, I use Cubase exclusively now, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Cerrax]

Can't find a download of Cubase to demo, but Logic Express 7 demo is AWESOME! LOVE IT! Logic has such bad-ass synths and it's 100% compatible with GB!! I'm sold! Its LOGIC for me!!

[Compyfox]

Sure you can't, demo needs a dongle. Contact Steinberg, get "Studio Case II" or do it like everybody else: use an illegal copy. Then again, this is the reason why the demo isn't free.

You get the meme?!

[Cerrax]

I think I'm fine with Logic. I really like that it's fully compatible with GB. Now all of my hard work won't be for nothing. I can yank old GB source files and make them better on Logic. I haven't bought anything yet (I don't have any money), but I think Logic is the best choice for me.

[analoq]

i think Logic Express is the best choice for you as well, that's why i recommended it.
for what it's worth, Cubase was my favorite sequencer until i found Logic.

cheers.

[Cerrax]

Yeah. The effects automantion alone is making me squeal like a kid at Christmas.

[CC Ricers]

It would be news to me if it did. I've been keeping a keen eye out for FL OSX with no such happiness being brought to me.

The makers of FL aren't thinking of releasing FL Studio for the Mac soon, anyways. FL is written in Delphi so it's very difficult to do a cross-platform version.

[Hsia Nu]

Logic has a rediculous learning curve. I used it for years and just got fed up with it. Im still in a windows environment so i moved to steinbergs platform and i am now using Nuendo 3. This such an easier environment to work with.

Anyway, my recommendation to you. If you can afford, get Digital Perfomer. I played with it at an expo once, man what a beautiful piece of software.

[analoq]

get Digital Perfomer. I played with it
so you tinkered with it, you didn't actually use it for a project...
at an expo
so it wasn't tinkered with in your own setup or with your own stuff..
once
only once?

i love DP but really, why bother giving advice when you're so obviously uninformed?

[Cerrax]

Logic has a rediculous learning curve. I used it for years and just got fed up with it.


Umm I've had the demo for like a week and I'm loving it. I don't see whats so hard. I've been able to do everything fairly easily. The GUI is a little overwhelming at first, but its really just like FL or Cubase, etc. I haven't had any problems with it so I'm positive I'll be getting Logic Express. One the trial demo runs out of course. Gotta milk that for all its worth first.

Actually, I've found that Logic is extremely easy. Want to add a new tempo, just click the bar and adjust the tempo slider. Synths are a little confusing (the windows are pretty, but not terribly functional), but what they lose in immediate ease of use, they overcome greatly with sheer power and flexibility. The EXP 24 sampler is very nice (and supports Garage Band EXS instruments! Yesss!). Honestly, I don't understand why its so hard to use. The MIDI environment is a little confusing, but again its all a matter of learning the environment.

Needless to say, I love it, so this thread should probably be lockjed/forgotten/overlooked, because I've made my choice. Thanks to everyone who gave me advice. I'm glad I got some help and I will be happy with this new software!!