Sony PS3

[Evilhead]

It's funny, because people like to jump in and say "That's not how it is!" when systems are going for cost, or less, on ebay, and they can't even move from store shelves.

I guess there was too much negative hype, this time.

Well, I think it's a combination of an already high priced console mixed with an oversaturated market. I called it many pages back. When everyone who buys a launch PS3 sells it on eBay and Sony actually DOES send out more consoles as promised, you'll see the thing going for not much more than retail. Good!

[SilverStar]

If less than half a million consoles can saturate the market for the early adopters, that's not a good thing, Evilhead. That means that, for the most part, they're stuck actually having to prove why they're better than the 360 to be able to move what's effectively the same hardware, at a huge markup and with few games.

As everyone is pointing out, MS was able to move over a million units before they hit that kind of market saturation. And, as much as you may anti-fan against it, Nintendo took a LOT of the steam out of Sony's sails. Hell, a glance at google news shows that much, at least on my side. 2-3 unique articles about Wii or Nintendo are sitting in their tech section every day, and I haven't seen one for the PS3 in over a month.

It's a whole new game for Sony. Their brand name is now next to worthless, so they have to start doing something new: actually providing worthwhile software. It could be that at some point this generation, the only games of any decent quality coming out for the PS3, are those from Sony-owned studios, just as happened with the Gamecube.

[Bigfoot]

As PCWorld puts it, since the PS3 arrived too late because of delays, Nintendo stole a lot of its thunder.

[Bahamut]

Nintendo created its own buzz, but I think Sony's high price ultimately kills it for them. Their audience is largely casual gamers, so they generally aren't so interested in paying so much for a console. Price is the main limiting factor for me here - I just spent $400 on a brand new XBox 360 premium & Gears of War (and the XBox Live Arcade Unplugged pack).

[KWarp]

I knew this sort of situation was coming, but so soon? Damn.

Also, PS3s being traded for Wiis (http://gigagamez.com/2006/12/22/ps3s-being-traded-for-wiis/)

Prediction: PS3 will never sell past 15 million units.

[atmuh]

So. Anyone want a PS3?

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/ps3s-spotted-in-atlanta-best-buy-223871.php

Seems they're pretty common on shelves now, if you just take a look for 'em.
There are two sitting in the back of my store.
After another crazy Christmas rush day we still have one left. No one will buy it.

[Evilhead]

If less than half a million consoles can saturate the market for the early adopters, that's not a good thing, Evilhead. That means that, for the most part, they're stuck actually having to prove why they're better than the 360 to be able to move what's effectively the same hardware, at a huge markup and with few games.

What I meant was that the second hand market was saturated. When you have PS3s trickling in to retail shops and almost EVERY launch PS3 being sold on eBay you can't expect them all to sell for $1200. Some did, but the people who bought them were idiots.

[Bahamut]

Launch day craze - people are idiots regardless.

And someone got massively lucky - they also used the American Express 25% off a total purchase coupon at the Times Square Toys 'R Us on Friday to get themselves a PS3 for $450.

[SilverStar]

If less than half a million consoles can saturate the market for the early adopters, that's not a good thing, Evilhead. That means that, for the most part, they're stuck actually having to prove why they're better than the 360 to be able to move what's effectively the same hardware, at a huge markup and with few games.

What I meant was that the second hand market was saturated. When you have PS3s trickling in to retail shops and almost EVERY launch PS3 being sold on eBay you can't expect them all to sell for $1200. Some did, but the people who bought them were idiots.

Big difference between launch units going for $1200+, and having units only a month later, still unopened, going for a loss on ebay and sitting around gathering dust on a store shelf, unable to be moved short of giving it away for half price.

In Japan, they may not be able to last on store shelves, but in the US they're sitting there, for days or weeks, being mentioned to almost everyone who comes through, and can't even be moved. Wal-mart one of my friends work at, still has a PS3 from LAUNCH DAY. Until it sells, they're not even putting in an order for a new shipment. People have asked when they're getting a new shipment in, and when they find out they still have one from launch, they decide to go for something else instead.

[Bahamut]

You have too much time on your hands SilverStar.

[KWarp]

You have too much time on your hands SilverStar.
Who here doesn't? :P

[SilverStar]

You have too much time on your hands SilverStar.

Would you rather I call you a fgtmod, just to make you feel like a welcome mod? Because, you know, you can't be a good mod if you don't have a lot of time to hang around the forums and, well.. moderate. :P

(I'm just joking, of course. Now, if Evilhead had been made a mod in gendesc, you'd have the OCR Troll King, out to ban everyone who says anything positive about Nintendo :P)

[Bahamut]

You have too much time on your hands SilverStar.

Would you rather I call you a fgtmod, just to make you feel like a welcome mod? Because, you know, you can't be a good mod if you don't have a lot of time to hang around the forums and, well.. moderate. :P

(I'm just joking, of course. Now, if Evilhead had been made a mod in gendesc, you'd have the OCR Troll King, out to ban everyone who says anything positive about Nintendo :P)

Evilhead is fairly mature about things, even if he does troll a bit.

But the point there was that these politics really don't mean much to gamers - it's only the games themselves that matter, and gamers have shown that they're quite willing to take crap up the ass for the games (PS2's PR lies and hyperbole). I wouldn't worry too much except about the game selection. If blu-ray does take off I will most certainly buy a PS3 though, despite my reservations about giving Sony control of a format, as a DVD player for my parents.

[SilverStar]

You have too much time on your hands SilverStar.

Would you rather I call you a fgtmod, just to make you feel like a welcome mod? Because, you know, you can't be a good mod if you don't have a lot of time to hang around the forums and, well.. moderate. :P

(I'm just joking, of course. Now, if Evilhead had been made a mod in gendesc, you'd have the OCR Troll King, out to ban everyone who says anything positive about Nintendo :P)

Evilhead is fairly mature about things, even if he does troll a bit.

But the point there was that these politics really don't mean much to gamers - it's only the games themselves that matter, and gamers have shown that they're quite willing to take crap up the ass for the games (PS2's PR lies and hyperbole). I wouldn't worry too much except about the game selection. If blu-ray does take off I will most certainly buy a PS3 though, despite my reservations about giving Sony control of a format, as a DVD player for my parents.

And at this point, Sony is constantly losing more and more exclusive titles. They really only have a small handful of exclusive IP that can make them money. One in.. what? 8 reviews, makes the PS3 version of a port seem like it's as good, or better, than the existing 360 version, even among games that have been built from the ground up, to take advantage of the PS3.

I'm afraid that, even purely from the perspective of the games, the PS3 just isn't offering what the competition is. According to the NDP, only 80K copies of Resistance was sold in the US, in November. Through the month, it barely hit a 1:1 ratio of games to hardware. The software just isn't there yet.

But, granted, it did take MS about 6 months to really get the 360 off the ground with appealing games. Sony needs to put some heavy, american-style focus on the network features, or the entire Playstation Network idea might not turn out much better than what it appears the Wii is going to have(just with a lot less paranoia).

[Bahamut]

Well, the hardware sales has been erratic due to the extreme shortage, so we'll see what happens to software sales after. That software library of exclusives may look low now, but remember that the smaller Japanese developers in general will probably still stick with Sony. In any case, this spring should bring us some more news about the future of the console.

[SilverStar]

Well, the hardware sales has been erratic due to the extreme shortage, so we'll see what happens to software sales after. That software library of exclusives may look low now, but remember that the smaller Japanese developers in general will probably still stick with Sony. In any case, this spring should bring us some more news about the future of the console.

Aye. While I'd like to see Sony knocked down hard, I don't quite want them to end up like Nintendo was with the Gamecube. If that's the case, Sony simply wouldn't be able to stay afloat, simply from the huge hit they take per unit.

I want Sony to stick around for a PS4, as unlikely as it may seem right now, and let them finally do it all right.

Right now it seems like it's a major shift in the entire electronic entertainment industry. MS is starting to pull ahead in the games division, actually making a profit, while their PC/OS market looks highly uncertain(Most people simply see no reason to upgrade to Vista.. even if their machines could support it properly). Sony has been kicked squarely in the teeth and needs to clear their head before they're knocked clear out of the race, and Nintendo has shown that, finally, it's the gameplay that truly matters. Even if Nintendo doesn't actually take any marketshare from MS or Sony among the "hardcore" crowd, they're growing the fanbase faster than anyone anticipated, simply by appealing to the former and non-gamers.

And then there's the entire modder community that's going totally batshit over the Wii, trying to re-engineer the remote to be used for absolutely anything they can think of, in any number of tinkering ways. That alone is threatening to push the Wii from being a "fringe" element, to turning it into a primary source of use, for a device that could see wide use in the mainstream PC industry.

No matter how things shake up in the next year, by the end of this cycle things should be in ways no one can really expect right now. Macs could overtake the Windows-based PCs(with Linux picking up the slack), Nintendo could be the dominant force in an industry that tops even Hollywood, and MS could find that it has a real hit wonder on its hands, by marketing a console to the rabid MMO fanbase, who are willing to shell out hundreds of dollars in pure profit every year, just to play the same couple of games, as long as they're kept fresh and up to date(Too bad Sega hasn't learned it's lesson until -maybe- with PSU). And Sony, the once-tyrant of the industry, who towered above even the mighty and ancient Nintendo empire, could be reduced to little more than a footnote.

But, yeah. Good luck Sony. You honestly do need it.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Aye. While I'd like to see Sony knocked down hard, I don't quite want them to end up like Nintendo was with the Gamecube. If that's the case, Sony simply wouldn't be able to stay afloat, simply from the huge hit they take per unit.

I want Sony to stick around for a PS4, as unlikely as it may seem right now, and let them finally do it all right.

I actually feel nostalgic for the older Playstation days, but I think it's good for the company if they can take note of all the things they've done wrong through their hubris. But Sony was run pretty shadily for a long time. At least they can do something more shrewd like what Nintendo did with the Wii. Maybe.

Sony needs to stop messing around and making their system the premiere choice for 3rd party development like it used to be. Now, apparently, it's more viable to build upon the 360 and even the Wii for the smaller titles.

Right now it seems like it's a major shift in the entire electronic entertainment industry. MS is starting to pull ahead in the games division, actually making a profit

If you said that a year ago, most people would have laughed. Including me.

while their PC/OS market looks highly uncertain(Most people simply see no reason to upgrade to Vista.. even if their machines could support it properly).

We'll have to see about that. MS could package in Vista with the newer, multi-core processor machines within a year. That's how they pushed Windows XP, even though its software sales were pretty good to begin with. Actually, I won't be surprised if the Vista starts taking hold a few years down. Windows XP had a lot of criticism in its early years too, I remember.

And then there's the entire modder community that's going totally batshit over the Wii, trying to re-engineer the remote to be used for absolutely anything they can think of, in any number of tinkering ways. That alone is threatening to push the Wii from being a "fringe" element, to turning it into a primary source of use, for a device that could see wide use in the mainstream PC industry.

I think it is simply the case of a Nintendo system getting some modding and reverse engineering action that the Playstations and the Xboxs's have been getting for almost a decade now. I expect to see burnt games and roms soon.

[PriZm]

So I finally sold my 20GB PS3 for 700 $CAN (which is barely over the 660 CAN$ it cost including taxes) and got me a full-fledged 60GB and, apart from the very small choice of titles, I love it.

The interface is clean and easy to use. The interface seems clean and easy to use, the controller is remarkably light and the R2 and L2 being more 'analogish' is all very sweet. Resistance looks fucking awesome, a bit better than Gears of War from what I've seen. I don't normally like shooters but this one got me.

The system is clearly designed to be used with HDTVs, because even the interface looks awful in 480i. But I'm sure it promises to be a great systems when the better games come out.

The major cons I see are the following:

1) there is no way to downgrade resolution easily, apart from disabling the higher resolutions everytime you want to play a game with lower resolution. Since I use HDMI, I have to switch to AV and 480i everytime I want to play a PS2 game since they look better that way.

2) it cannot play .avi files on a DVD. Like, I cannot download an anime from the internet and play it with the base OS. Of course with Linux the problem will be solved, but it still is a feature I would have liked in the base OS.

3) The error messages don't tell you anything. While trying to register my account on the PlaystationShop, I received an error message telling my screen name was invalid for no particular reason, and I kept trying until I found one that was accepted. I tried using at least one number in my name (pak0), using symbols PriZm[A01]) and it kept telling me it was invalid. So I finally settled with PriZm001 but it bothered me like hell.

Since the Wii doesn't compete directly with either MS or Sony, as it is designed for a completely different use, I don't see Sony dreamcasting this one. I think, even if it loses exclusives, the Japanese still seem to vouch for it and make it a choice console over the X360 for developers.

I would love to see the three companies aiming for three different markets:
1) the Wii for party oriented games
2) the X360 for American developers
3) the PS3 for Japanese developers

That way, the consumer would have a clear idea of what they're purchasing when they're buying the console.

[Bigfoot]

If anyone is interested, next Sunday, Best Buys should have more PS3s for the next Sunday's ad. Our store has 42.


One PS3 actually got returned yesterday(never opened), and an employee went to walk back to put it on the shelf. She didn't even make it back before someone told her they wanted it.

[Poiso]

So I got one of these guys for Christmas. The games I played (Genshi, Resistance) sure were pretty.

Now, to wait for VF5.

[Bahamut]

http://www.destructoid.com/playstation-3-kiosks-freezing-up-on-purpose--28860.phtml

This news gets the ROFL. Fuck Sony PR, they're full of shit.

[Bigfoot]

http://www.destructoid.com/playstation-3-kiosks-freezing-up-on-purpose--28860.phtml

This news gets the ROFL. Fuck Sony PR, they're full of shit.


Hahaha, what the fuck?

[SilverStar]

*clears his throat*

SONY LOL

I'm sorry.. that's the only way to respond to anything coming from any Sony rep these days. They've become the lead-in, the body AND the punchline to just about any possible joke, no matter how innocent, or how bawdy it might be.

[The Damned]

Fuck you, Bahamut, I was about to post that.

Now, I have personally seen two PS3 demo units in a store. The same store, in fact. Anyone in Edmonton, go to the HMV at West Ed, upstairs. They have two of them.

That day, I saw one guy completely hoarding one demo to himself. He was playing basketball, and for the half hour or so I was there, he was playing it. Non-stop.

The second unit had, you guessed it, Metal Storm. And, you also guessed it, it was frozen. I pushed the buttons, I felt around the case for a reset switch, I even told the people behind the counter. They didn't come out and do anything with it.

So, I guess, if what Sony reps say is true, people are more likely to play Metal Storm than sports games. Wait... Isn't racing considered a sport?

Now, reps aren't exactly the most... uh... "well-versed" people when it comes to technical info, so I suspect that the guy was bullshitting out his mouth when he said this was intentional.

But then, Sony likes to bullshit a lot, don't they? The E3 trailers being in-game footage, the power of the Cell processor, the ads, that fake blog... wow. Fire everyone in your marketing division and start over from scratch Sony. Do both yourself and us a favor and stop thins sort of shit. Maybe when you act like you want me to buy your stuff, I will.

EDIT: Oh dear god of all that is pure and wholesome, do not read the comments after the article. It will hurt you. It makes the terrible shit we do to each other look like a calm, collected debate at Princeton or Harvard. Seriously, don't read it.

[Thalzon]

That Gamez1 kid is rofl.

[SilverStar]

Haha.. poor bastard he is, indeed. The following was posted by him, in immediate sequence.

YOU STUPID FUCKS - PLAYSTATION BROUGH SOME OF THE GREATEST GAMES OUT - STOP WHINNING PUSSIES

TO ALL ANTI-SONY PEOPLE - I HOPE YOU GET CANCER IN THE MOUTH

GO TO IGN AND SEE HOW ALL THE EDITORS 360'S DIDN'T WORK - EVERY FRIGGIN ONE OF THEM - BECAUSE IT IS A JUNK

WHO CARES IF IT FREEZES IN THE STORE - MINE IS ON ALL DAY LONG AND MY 4 OTHER FRIENDS ARE ON ALL THE TIME AND THEIR WASN'T ANY PROBLEMS - THIS PERSON IS LYING

And then immediately follows it up with..

WHO EVER MADE THAT COMMENT IS A NINTENDO LOVER AND TAKES IT IN THE BUTT

Seriously.. how old is he? 8? Maybe he doesn't even realize that he ended up calling himself a "nintendo lover" and that he "takes it in the butt". Because, rather than trying to target it at the article, he targeted it at the person who made the previous -comment-.. which was himself. :P

[PriZm]

That Gamez1 kid is rofl.

Seriously. The other kids are even worse to answer everyone one of his troll posts instead of just ignoring him.

[Bahamut]

Yeah a lot of those comments were so stupid.

[The Damned]

Troll of the year? Possibly! Look how he got everyone there going.

[JoeFu]

I tried motorstorm today. It looked really pretty, but the framerate was slow... That's just the demo one right? I heard the one that came out in Japan ran at a nice frame rate. The demo had really bad framerate issues.

[Bahamut]

Damn I wish I knew about this (http://www.gametab.com/news/775989/) :(

[The Damned]

Wow... have PS3s sitting on shelves, the demand is a lot lower than they originally expected, and now they are offering a major discount through their stores.

I know they want to get the machines out there, so when more games come out in the future, the consumer base will be there... but taking an even larger loss per unit? Ouch.

Also: comments in the Gametab article. "I'mma buying a Wii with mine!"

[Bahamut]

Well also about those damn credit card offers, there are only so many credit cards I can fit in my damn wallet.

Also more PS3s are being sold tomorrow morning when Best Buy opens. (post to get the subscription thread into the User CP)

[Power Surge]

I haven't seen this posted yet.

Sony's PS3 Dissappointment Timeline
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25247543

[SilverStar]

I love how one of the first comments there suggests that Sony's fortune will improve next year, stating they'll sell 4-6 million units.

On average, if you accept the "units shipped" as "units sold", then both the PS1 and PS2 averaged close to 20 MILLION units per year. For the PS3 to maybe sell 6 million next year, would mean they're only doing 1/4 as well as the previous 2.

It'd put them in about the same situation for potential units, as Nintendo was for the Gamecube. o.o

[ResEvil07]

Only reason I would possibly get one is to play any Final Fantasy games.

[Effef]

Sony has recently destroyed 1 of my 2 reasons to get a PS3:

Gran Turismo. I REFUSE to pay for vehicles when they could easily just be in the game.

Final Fantasy is the only thing left.

[Terial]

Final Fantasy is the only thing left.

Reason why I have my PSP. And Crisis Core STILL isn't out yet... I just hope XIII won't be another XII. That game took FOREVER to develope! I realize they switched directors halfway through and it takes time to make a good game, but I guess if you don't count XI there were five years between FF releases. Don't get me wrong, I love my PSP, Daxter, GTA:LCS/VCS, and Ridge Racer are enough to keep me playing when I'm not running homebrew.

Any doubt for the PSP? Loco Roco and Tokobots, they make the system worth it.

I enjoy my PS3 so far. Can't wait to get my hands on LINUX and install that. I'm impressed with the console itself, but not with Sony's use of it. The web browser sucks, dropped downloads w/o file recovery is RIDICULOUS for something so capable. That, the lame media support (DIVX, AVI anyone?) and the filing system are insane. For 600 bucks SCE can do better. And they need to if they want to move more units.

Note to Sony: Closing out of the Playstation registration program and loosing your 30 minutes of typing with a half-assed method causing you to loose all your work, due to YOUR servers not responding is a horrible treat to your consumers. LET ME MAKE USE OF MY MONEY.

[Bahamut]

Reason why I have my PSP. And Crisis Core STILL isn't out yet... I just hope XIII won't be another XII. That game took FOREVER to develope! I realize they switched directors halfway through and it takes time to make a good game, but I guess if you don't count XI there were five years between FF releases. Don't get me wrong, I love my PSP, Daxter, GTA:LCS/VCS, and Ridge Racer are enough to keep me playing when I'm not running homebrew.

Any doubt for the PSP? Loco Roco and Tokobots, they make the system worth it.


Slightly offtopic but I'm starting to realize how much I've neglected my PSP these days - I have only 6 games so far, 3 that I bought two days after Christmas in a Toys 'R Us clearance sale, and just bought Me And My Katamari and Gitaroo Man Lives! I have a few other games on my list like Mega Man Powered Up, Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops, and Capcom Classics Remixed - it's surprising how many games the PSP has worth a go now. It's no DS, but it has a respectable set of games.

[Gollgagh]

My PSP collection, on the other hand, is growing rather rapidly.

[KakTheInfected]

This is a PS3 thread newbs.

I'm thinking of picking up a used PSP for my birfday though. MGS:PO is pretty tempting, but I don't want to spend full price for a PSP.

[Bahamut]

This is a PS3 thread newbs.

I'm thinking of picking up a used PSP for my birfday though. MGS:PO is pretty tempting, but I don't want to spend full price for a PSP.

Oh the irony - you can use the Sony credit card offer I linked to in the last page if you want $150 off (although you have to wait ~2 1/2 months to get the money credited).

[PriZm]

Do you people know of any way to play Japanese PS2 games on the PS3 ?

The PS3 is NOT region free contrary to popular belief . The PS3 GAMES are "region free". PS3 games from japan and North America share the same region code, so it seems like it's region free.

Example:

PS2 North American Region Code: 1
PS2 Japanese Region Code: 2

PS3 North American Region Code: 1
PS3 Japanese Region Code: 1

And I thought the PS3 Hardware for Japan and America was the same, i.e. the Emotion Engine in the PS3 being able to play games region-free. Now do you know if there is a way to play import games with PS3, like Swap Magic or something like this ?

[Bahamut]

The problem about playing imports though would be that Sony could patch the PS3 right?

[PriZm]

I don't know how far they can patch it with firmware. But, since you can run Linux on the PS3, and people at Paradox have already begun working on a ps3 loader to dump your game images on your hard drive and play them as backups from the hard drive (which should reduce loading times too !), there could be a PS2 loader app too, that enables players to play ps2 imports on their ps3. The loader could be updated every time sony patches its game, much like scraft map hacks were updated every time brood war was updated :(

Of course, that might take a while. I was really looking forward to playing Narutimate Hero 3 on my PS3 when I thought It'd be region-free.

[atmuh]

someone traded in a PS3 at the place I work at yesterday

MAN THAT WAS QUICK

[RJG]

someone traded in a PS3 at the place I work at yesterday

MAN THAT WAS QUICK

What did they trade it for? A Wii? Or were they still sold out? :P

[Airwalker]

Man! Everywhere I go I find PS3's sitting in the shelves. The dude at Gamestop said their few in stock have been sitting there a few days. And I just stopped in Wal-Mart; they had two. (Yet I can't find a singly Wii...)

Are they making a ton now? Or is it just not as popular?

[Ace-Of-War]

Why would you trade-in a ps3?

You might still find an online buyer for around a hundred dollars under retail value. How much did ya'll give him, Atmuh?

[leokef]

I'd say supply and demand are nearly at equilibrium. I myself walked into Best Buy a couple days ago and found a pyramid of twenty or so with only a few missing by the doors. This was late in the evening, mind you.

If only I had six hundred dollars.

[SilverStar]

Man! Everywhere I go I find PS3's sitting in the shelves. The dude at Gamestop said their few in stock have been sitting there a few days. And I just stopped in Wal-Mart; they had two. (Yet I can't find a singly Wii...)

Are they making a ton now? Or is it just not as popular?

If they've been sitting on shelves for days, that would indicate that they're not selling. If they're not selling, they're not as popular as they should be, less than 2 months after launch. If they had hit equilibrium, they'd be rotating through their stock so none would be able to be considered as "sitting there" for more than a day.

[Baleshadow]

Just yesterday I saw two PS3s at Best Buy. I almost picked one up, but then I came to my senses. With a new semester starting in little over a week, it would be entirely irresponsible of me to blow $600 on a console I wouldn't have time to use.

Maybe in a month or so, after my savings recover from Christmas.

[The Damned]

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/07/gamestop-pulls-out-creative-stops-to-move-ps3s/

More and more, stories and reports of PS3s not selling come up. People are reportedly returning the ones they bought, as well. It seems that those that bought them with hopes of selling them online for a tidy profit have been screwed. And when people are returning your product unopened... ouch.

The interest for a system should not wane so soon after its launch. This is a bad sign. Only with a major price drop this year will we see sale pick up again.

But a price drop on a system that is already being sold at a loss of hundreds of dollars? Sony may want people to buy PS3s and get that installed base, but with their massive losses this last year and the various problems they've had as well... I can't see how they could afford it. Back when the PS2 was king and they had money everywhere, they could afford the price drops. But the money they sunk into the PS3, combined with their stock falling to almost having it taken off the market, and then the battery recall, and the government hearings and investigations into their alleged selling of computer chips to foreign powers. They just don't have the means to do a major price cut.

It's going to hurt Sony a lot this year, I think. They will see losses and lose ground to the competition, and only with a few years of sacrifice (and possibly layoffs, to save enough money to keep the PS3 going) will they regain some of their past territory.

I predict hard time for Sony. Hard times, indeed.

[McVaffe]

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/07/gamestop-pulls-out-creative-stops-to-move-ps3s/

More and more, stories and reports of PS3s not selling come up. People are reportedly returning the ones they bought, as well. It seems that those that bought them with hopes of selling them online for a tidy profit have been screwed. And when people are returning your product unopened... ouch.

The interest for a system should not wane so soon after its launch. This is a bad sign. Only with a major price drop this year will we see sale pick up again.

But a price drop on a system that is already being sold at a loss of hundreds of dollars? Sony may want people to buy PS3s and get that installed base, but with their massive losses this last year and the various problems they've had as well... I can't see how they could afford it. Back when the PS2 was king and they had money everywhere, they could afford the price drops. But the money they sunk into the PS3, combined with their stock falling to almost having it taken off the market, and then the battery recall, and the government hearings and investigations into their alleged selling of computer chips to foreign powers. They just don't have the means to do a major price cut.

It's going to hurt Sony a lot this year, I think. They will see losses and lose ground to the competition, and only with a few years of sacrifice (and possibly layoffs, to save enough money to keep the PS3 going) will they regain some of their past territory.

I predict hard time for Sony. Hard times, indeed.


Well I don't know if it's all that bad really, but working at a retailer (which as of late has been receiving a steady supply of PS3's) I'll say that they haven't been moving nearly the same way they were in December. Through a Thurs - Sat period (in a busy store nontheless) it took nearly the full 3 days to sell out of 18 consoles. What's really sad, almost everyone just ends up getting NBA or Madden for the console (some of the more educated consumers purchase Resistance, but those are actually much fewer and more far between than one might imagine).

But shit, to their credit, at least Sony is actually sending out systems. I haven't been able to find anyone locally who has found a Wii (or any of their damn controllers) on any store shelves in the past 3 weeks or so, which is just crazy. I know they sold out during the holiday season and all, but dammit they should've been able to secure some replenishment by now - instead of nothing.

[Nario]

Well I don't know if it's all that bad really, but working at a retailer (which as of late has been receiving a steady supply of PS3's) I'll say that they haven't been moving nearly the same way they were in December. Through a Thurs - Sat period (in a busy store nontheless) it took nearly the full 3 days to sell out of 18 consoles. What's really sad, almost everyone just ends up getting NBA or Madden for the console (some of the more educated consumers purchase Resistance, but those are actually much fewer and more far between than one might imagine).

But shit, to their credit, at least Sony is actually sending out systems. I haven't been able to find anyone locally who has found a Wii (or any of their damn controllers) on any store shelves in the past 3 weeks or so, which is just crazy. I know they sold out during the holiday season and all, but dammit they should've been able to secure some replenishment by now - instead of nothing.

Wiis are sold out because people keep buying them. Most stores get 15-20, and they're normally gone within the same day. Nintendo has hit the target with its number of titles and Sony hasn't. Combined with Sony's financial troubles, the lack of worthwhile exclusive titles for the PS3, the experience that Xbox 360 has gained throughout the market, and the gameplay delivered by the Wii - along with its semi-great number of exclusive titles - Sony will have to do more than just get more games out onto their console: they'll have to climb out of this financial pit of quicksand without the help of ex-loyal developers.

Seriously, though, Capcom has basically switched over to Microsoft, Ubisoft is being split between Nintendo and Microsoft, Mistwalker (what could be considered the modern "Square" company) is with Microsoft, Assassin's Creed will be ported to Xbox 360 due to the fear of PS3 not selling well, and Metal Gear Solid 4: Gun of the Patriots could do the exact same thing, even though Hideo Kojima is/was loyal to Sony.

PlayStation isn't looking too good, Nintendo Wii is selling like hot cakes, and Xbox 360's library of titles is absolutely amazing and would be over-looked by someone who has no reasoning (such person has no right to use "it doesn't have my kind of games on it" for the Xbox 360 because it has something that the original Xbox didn't: variety. The titles for Xbox 360 have opened to a wider audience now, thus giving no one the right not to want one. The same could be said about the PlayStation 3, only if it had games for it. :)). No one knows how this'll end, but if Sony doesn't get their act together then PS4 may be their last console (Sega Saturn;PS3/Dreamcast;PS4).

[atmuh]

Wiis are sold out because people keep buying them.
actually you're wrong

my store has gotten no wiis since the day after christmas and we have gotten PS3s

[parasoul]

(such person has no right to use "it doesn't have my kind of games on it" for the Xbox 360 because it has something that the original Xbox didn't: variety. The titles for Xbox 360 have opened to a wider audience now, thus giving no one the right not to want one. The same could be said about the PlayStation 3, only if it had games for it. :)).

It doesn't have Smash.

[Fire in the Hole]

actually you're wrong

my store has gotten no wiis since the day after christmas and we have gotten PS3s

We've gotten a few shipments of Wiis and they do sell out instantly.

One day I was there when we opened with a shipment of 6 PS3s and it took until 2:30 for the last one to be sold. Someone bought a 20GB and returned it not two hours later.

[Bigfoot]

Our store has Wii's on order.

Someone else just returned a 20gb PS3 again today.

[Bahamut]

I bet now people feel really stupid for buying the 20 GB PS3.

[SilverStar]

Wiis are sold out because people keep buying them. Most stores get 15-20, and they're normally gone within the same day. Nintendo has hit the target with its number of titles and Sony hasn't. Combined with Sony's financial troubles, the lack of worthwhile exclusive titles for the PS3, the experience that Xbox 360 has gained throughout the market, and the gameplay delivered by the Wii - along with its semi-great number of exclusive titles - Sony will have to do more than just get more games out onto their console: they'll have to climb out of this financial pit of quicksand without the help of ex-loyal developers.

Seriously, though, Capcom has basically switched over to Microsoft, Ubisoft is being split between Nintendo and Microsoft, Mistwalker (what could be considered the modern "Square" company) is with Microsoft, Assassin's Creed will be ported to Xbox 360 due to the fear of PS3 not selling well, and Metal Gear Solid 4: Gun of the Patriots could do the exact same thing, even though Hideo Kojima is/was loyal to Sony.

PlayStation isn't looking too good, Nintendo Wii is selling like hot cakes, and Xbox 360's library of titles is absolutely amazing and would be over-looked by someone who has no reasoning (such person has no right to use "it doesn't have my kind of games on it" for the Xbox 360 because it has something that the original Xbox didn't: variety. The titles for Xbox 360 have opened to a wider audience now, thus giving no one the right not to want one. The same could be said about the PlayStation 3, only if it had games for it. :)). No one knows how this'll end, but if Sony doesn't get their act together then PS4 may be their last console (Sega Saturn;PS3/Dreamcast;PS4).

I believe there was a mention on Kotaku about an interview with Kojima and he had nothing but gushing praise for the Wii, and bitched out both Sony and MS for trying to push the whole HD issue. He honestly doesn't like the idea of HD graphics being mandatory..

[Dervish]

Personally I like my PS3 (got it first day to keep, not sell). I went into buying one knowing that it would be just like any other new console launch - there would be 1 or 2 games worth buying, and nothing new that's really great for at least 7-8 months. You know, just like the 360 last year. Or ... well ... ANY system launch in the past 10 years or so. Frankly I'm pleasantly surprised with the system's launch games - Resistance is a ton of fun, and pretty much all the sports games are also fun to play, and comparable to their 360 counterparts.

What kinda irks me is that people almost universally are looking at the PS3 as it is FIRST LAUNCHED and comparing it to a system which has been out for MORE THAN A YEAR. As far as a launch is concerned, from a software and graphical standpoint, the PS3 launch has been pretty good! Much better than 360's, in fact. Yet people feel compelled for some reason to compare the two incorrectly, and then totally rag on Sony. I don't quite get it, to tell you the truth. Give the system a year of development and *then* compare the two, don't do it right off the bat. It's like when Xbox came out to challenge PS2. There was no contest at the time! Why? PS2 had many many months of development time under its belt by the time Xbox released! It's the same situation here, yet for some reason people this time are hating on Sony where they did not hate on Microsoft for the same issues in the last console launch.

As a side note, I just installed Linux on my PS3 and am loving it. And boy howdy is that thing a BEAST! My buddy came over to help me set up the kernel and after some tweaking and testing we're pulling down like 256 gigaflops! My PC is lucky to pull down *2*. ~whistles~

[Cecilff2]

Yeah, PS3's just aren't selling as fast it would seem. I checked in with the local gamestop every day Monday through Friday when I was Wii hunting and on Thursday they got a shipment of six PS3s. The next day they got 3 Wii's and there were three of us waiting there to see if they'd get any in. The employees were saying they still had 2 PS3's left.

[Ero Elohim]

What kinda irks me is that people almost universally are looking at the PS3 as it is FIRST LAUNCHED and comparing it to a system which has been out for MORE THAN A YEAR. As far as a launch is concerned, from a software and graphical standpoint, the PS3 launch has been pretty good! Much better than 360's, in fact. Yet people feel compelled for some reason to compare the two incorrectly, and then totally rag on Sony. I don't quite get it, to tell you the truth. Give the system a year of development and *then* compare the two, don't do it right off the bat. It's like when Xbox came out to challenge PS2. There was no contest at the time! Why? PS2 had many many months of development time under its belt by the time Xbox released! It's the same situation here, yet for some reason people this time are hating on Sony where they did not hate on Microsoft for the same issues in the last console launch.

That's a completely illogical way to compare the consoles. It's impossible to compare the ethereal "future PS3" to the currently-1-year-old XB360. All we can do is compare two available products at present and examine which one holds more value. Right now, it's undeniably the 360.

Besides, if we waited a year to compare them, then the arguement would be "Why are you comparing a 1-year-old system to a 2-year-old system?" Also, the Wii seems to have little problem selling despite the 360's lead. If one system released a year late can compete directly with the dug-in competition, why must we coddle and baby the other?

Aside: My EBGames currently stocks about eight PS3's. We sell about one a week. We've recieved about three shipments of Wii's, with three systems per box. They sell as soon as they come in, and we get at least five to ten people a day calling/walking in and asking when our next shipment is.

[SilverStar]

That's a completely illogical way to compare the consoles. It's impossible to compare the ethereal "future PS3" to the currently-1-year-old XB360. All we can do is compare two available products at present and examine which one holds more value. Right now, it's undeniably the 360.

Besides, if we waited a year to compare them, then the arguement would be "Why are you comparing a 1-year-old system to a 2-year-old system?" Also, the Wii seems to have little problem selling despite the 360's lead. If one system released a year late can compete directly with the dug-in competition, why must we coddle and baby the other?

Aside: My EBGames currently stocks about eight PS3's. We sell about one a week. We've recieved about three shipments of Wii's, with three systems per box. They sell as soon as they come in, and we get at least five to ten people a day calling/walking in and asking when our next shipment is.

Here's the big thing you should be considering..

If the PS3 will finally be "worth" buying in 1 year, why would the 360 suddenly not be? It'll have just that much more time to grow. With a few AAA titles hitting over the next 12 months, it's possible that MS will see another 10 million units sold(particularly with their new generation of 360 that has just been announced).

Sony is late to the game for the same market MS is already catering to. If they didn't have their heads up their asses, they could have launched it in the spring and turned the 360 into a footnote. Instead, they just couldn't have the product ready.

If you want a fair comparison, look at launch-period games instead.

[Ero Elohim]

Why did you quote me? I agree with you.

[Cecilff2]

I'm guessing he meant to quote you and the quote you quoted but there's no quoting another quote by quoting a post.

Also q count +6.

[SilverStar]

I quoted you, to add an extra argument as to why Sony failed right out the gate.

If, however, MS and Nintendo didn't come out with ANY new games for their systems.. then Sony might be able to catch up to sales and expectations. :P

[Bahamut]

I quoted you, to add an extra argument as to why Sony failed right out the gate.

If, however, MS and Nintendo didn't come out with ANY new games for their systems.. then Sony might be able to catch up to sales and expectations. :P

Well, there are also the heavy rumors (supposedly leaked news) of a new version of the XBox 360. It looks like Microsoft is being quite aggressive this generation.

[SilverStar]

Well, there are also the heavy rumors (supposedly leaked news) of a new version of the XBox 360. It looks like Microsoft is being quite aggressive this generation.

You mean like this?
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/iptv-xbox-360/microsoft-unveils-iptvenabled-xbox-360-226832.php

Personally, I'd like it a touch more, if it had a built-in tuner device, so that you could record shows like an HTPC or DVR, instead of just downloading them in the background.

[PriZm]

It's obvisouly way too early to be declaring a winner just yet. Yes, the PS3 had a weak launch, they still sold a million units worldwide and are consistently producing new ones.

The Wii outselling the PS3 is mainly due to its cheapness and, you know, Zelda as a launch game. I think the truth is that neither of us know what's gonna happen, and all we say is pure speculation.

Like, I know for a fact that Sony did not lose as many exclusives as it appears. Many of the games it supposedly 'lost' were never said to be exclusives and were scheduled to appear on the 360 too. The only reason why they didn't say that when they announced the game was too strenghthen business relations with Sony.

[chucky90]

I agree. the ps3 will surely have better titles later this year that will take full advantage of the hardware. Maybe other people will realize the value of the PS3 as a blu-ray player, as well as a computer (rumors of third-party OS support are running amok!). Wii's are fun as hell though.

[The Damned]

You can talk about how great a value the PS3 is because it plays Blu-Ray movies until you pass out. There's just one giant, glaring problem with that value: the format war is very young, and there are massive hurdles to overcome first.

1. Studios will decide which format they want to publish their movies on. They want the format that will be the most available to their market. This will depend upon which one has the cheaper player. And if Sony has to underprice their own system with a Blu-Ray player in it for hundreds of dollars just to keep it in the reach of the average consumer (which is still a little high), while MS can just throw a (what is it? $50?) add-on drive that does the same thing, I think we know where people and their wallets are looking.

2. You can also talk about how much better the picture is on which ever format. Thats great. If you're some sort of super high-tech fetishist. Too bad such "hardcore" people are the minority. They are, don't try to argue it. Go into any electronics store and watch the people there. They buy all kinds of stuff that would make technophiles gag. Companies make money selling to the masses, not the elite. Look at the iPod. It's not the "best" player out there. There are several other models that exceed it in features, battery life, storage size... but the iPod is still the player of choice.

The point is that Blu-Ray may have such and such features and bandwidth and whatever other technical terms you can throw around, but at the end of the day, people don't know or care about that stuff. Beta had better image quality, and yet it lost out to VHS.

3. Major stores, especially Wal-Mart, don't want to carry more than one format. They would have to divide their shelve space to accommodate the different formats. They want to have one format taking up their shelves. Wal-Mart is a major company. They sell DVDs just as much, if not more than, everyone else. They will demand that studios pick one over the other (there was even a press announcement earlier this year about this. I'd have to go find it, but I do remember it). So there's another concern. If push comes to shove, the big distributors will start throwing their weight around.

The whole point is that there is no "value" to the PS3 as a movie player. In the next year, we might see HD-DVD win by a landslide. Or we may see the opposite. Or we may see a mostly even race. It's only when Blu-Ray wins as the format of choice and becomes widely accepted will this phantom value become real. Until then, don't tell me how great it is that I don't have to pay those extra $400 for a player. A player that might end up being useless in the future,

[Bahamut]

Hm? The XBox 360 HD-DVD drive is $200.

[The Damned]

Really?Then someone really missed that typo in the page I got the price from. And I'm reading some articles I searched for on the price, and I see anywhere from $100 to $150.

But still... $200, versus how much for the Blu-Ray drive? And regardless of which is the better deal, again, the preferred format hasn't been chosen yet. So, until one wins over the other, any value the PS3 may have as a movie player is, at best, tenuous.

[FuriousFure]

it's true, the Hd-dvd is about $200. and before, there were some complaints about it not supporting 7.1 sound and full 1080p because of the lack of HDMI. but now theres rumors (with PICTURES) about a v.2 of the 360. with HDMI output. that would be another Ps3 exclusive gone.

hey, another target alert. just went in, 4 ps3s just sitting there. visible but along the wall (so they've been there for awhile) and no wiis or DS lites in sight.

[Zutnunzor]

PS3 is simply too much, just forget it.

I was in favor of Sony before, but I just don't know now.

And playing Twilight Princess doesn't help either, mmmmmmmmmm so fun.

But in all honesty, I'd rather have an XB360 and a Wii for the money I'm paying.

[Dervish]

That's a completely illogical way to compare the consoles. It's impossible to compare the ethereal "future PS3" to the currently-1-year-old XB360. All we can do is compare two available products at present and examine which one holds more value. Right now, it's undeniably the 360.

Besides, if we waited a year to compare them, then the arguement would be "Why are you comparing a 1-year-old system to a 2-year-old system?" Also, the Wii seems to have little problem selling despite the 360's lead. If one system released a year late can compete directly with the dug-in competition, why must we coddle and baby the other?

Aside: My EBGames currently stocks about eight PS3's. We sell about one a week. We've recieved about three shipments of Wii's, with three systems per box. They sell as soon as they come in, and we get at least five to ten people a day calling/walking in and asking when our next shipment is.

I'm not suggesting that you compare the mythical "Future PS3" to the current Xbox 360. I also think that comparing the current Xbox 360 to the current PS3 is unfair. What I am suggesting people do is compare the current brand new PS3 to the 360 of 1 year ago, when it launched. THEN you get a fair comparison from a system launch perspective. And in that sort of comparison, PS3 does pretty well! Of COURSE Xbox 360 has more value to it right now - it's been out a full year and is just starting to have some solid AAA titles drop. Its library of next-gen games dwarfs the PS3's. That's what an extra year will get you. I don't have a problem seeing the distinction between current value and the strength of a system launch; I DO have a problem with those who resolutely refuse to acknowledge that the Xbox 360 had a pretty terrible launch and then proceded to get better, just as the PS3 undoubtedly will. Instead they just shout, "ZOMG PS3 SUX 360 FTW HALO3 & GEARS ARGHALSENV;AOIER;ASLKD" and expect people to take their opinion seriously.

From a retail standpoint, I'm happy to have PS3s in stock at my store for about a week after we get them. It means I have guaranteed revenue walking out the door every day. :) Instead of one huge day from a revenue standpoint, I have many great days where I kill my budgets simply because I have a $600 trump card ready to be played.

[SilverStar]

I'm not suggesting that you compare the mythical "Future PS3" to the current Xbox 360. I also think that comparing the current Xbox 360 to the current PS3 is unfair. What I am suggesting people do is compare the current brand new PS3 to the 360 of 1 year ago, when it launched. THEN you get a fair comparison from a system launch perspective. And in that sort of comparison, PS3 does pretty well! Of COURSE Xbox 360 has more value to it right now - it's been out a full year and is just starting to have some solid AAA titles drop. Its library of next-gen games dwarfs the PS3's. That's what an extra year will get you. I don't have a problem seeing the distinction between current value and the strength of a system launch; I DO have a problem with those who resolutely refuse to acknowledge that the Xbox 360 had a pretty terrible launch and then proceded to get better, just as the PS3 undoubtedly will. Instead they just shout, "ZOMG PS3 SUX 360 FTW HALO3 & GEARS ARGHALSENV;AOIER;ASLKD" and expect people to take their opinion seriously.

From a retail standpoint, I'm happy to have PS3s in stock at my store for about a week after we get them. It means I have guaranteed revenue walking out the door every day. :) Instead of one huge day from a revenue standpoint, I have many great days where I kill my budgets simply because I have a $600 trump card ready to be played.

Something else you have to consider, is that the 360 has already been established, it already has the base, and it's already making money for developers. That will, naturally, make developers more likely in turn to develop games for it, because it shows there's money there. The market isn't just 10 million to 1 million, it's 10:1, meaning you have a chance of selling 10x the games, to make 10x the profit.

The PS3 will have to actually get more units sold, to get on even footing and be a particularly valid development platform.. It's an edge that cuts both ways. Less hardware available means less software will be developed for it. Less software available will sell less hardware.

[Brim]

PS3 is pointless right now.
If it gets some good exclusives, it can gain a foothold.

[Ero Elohim]

I'm not suggesting that you compare the mythical "Future PS3" to the current Xbox 360. I also think that comparing the current Xbox 360 to the current PS3 is unfair. What I am suggesting people do is compare the current brand new PS3 to the 360 of 1 year ago, when it launched. THEN you get a fair comparison from a system launch perspective. And in that sort of comparison, PS3 does pretty well! Of COURSE Xbox 360 has more value to it right now - it's been out a full year and is just starting to have some solid AAA titles drop. Its library of next-gen games dwarfs the PS3's. That's what an extra year will get you. I don't have a problem seeing the distinction between current value and the strength of a system launch; I DO have a problem with those who resolutely refuse to acknowledge that the Xbox 360 had a pretty terrible launch and then proceded to get better, just as the PS3 undoubtedly will. Instead they just shout, "ZOMG PS3 SUX 360 FTW HALO3 & GEARS ARGHALSENV;AOIER;ASLKD" and expect people to take their opinion seriously.

From a retail standpoint, I'm happy to have PS3s in stock at my store for about a week after we get them. It means I have guaranteed revenue walking out the door every day. :) Instead of one huge day from a revenue standpoint, I have many great days where I kill my budgets simply because I have a $600 trump card ready to be played.

You're still missing the point. This isn't about a hypothetical winner of the "System War." It's about current value. It's meaningless to compare the 360's launch to the PS3's launch. Why? Because you aren't buying the 360 at launch, you're buying it a year after launch! You're essentially trying to invalidate Microsoft's smart decision on being the first to market by claiming that we should "give the PS3 a chance." Again, I state that the Wii seems to have absolutely no problem selling, despite the 360's head start. Why must we cut the PS3 slack in this department? From a different standpoint, Sony and game developers had a full year extra on top of the 360 to spend polishing system features and games, yet the PS3 launch is almost identical to the 360's lackluster one.

To put this another way, imagine a hypothetical scenario between two music players:

Player A has been out for a year, costs $200, supports all file types of music, can connect seamlessly to the internet to download songs, and has a wide range of accessories available.

Player B has just released, costs $300, supports two file types of music, can connect to the internet to download songs through an unwieldy process, and has a small pool of accessories available. Company B promises more music file types and accessories in the future.

Why would you buy Player B? It's more expensive and offers less than Player A. B's only saving grace is that its maker promises to make it a better player in the future, but there's already a better product on the market. It's irrelevant that Company A released their player first because it's not about the history behind a product, it's about the value it offers at the present.

[The Damned]

Applause for Ero Elohim, for an excellent rebuttal.

[Aninymouse]

Agreed, that's the reason I'm not paying any attention to the PS3 right now. As of right now, both the 360 and Wii have more or better games and features. Right now, damnit, not months from now. When something costs twice as much with half the content it's not a smart buy, regardless of what may be coming in the future.

I heard Metal Gear & Prince of Persia were being ported to the 360 and Wii, respectively. Time to get your shit straight, Sony.

[Neo-Egyptian]

Indeed. I particularly like the music player analogy, I hadn't really thought about it like that before. Furthermore, Elohim's emphasis on 'current value' is particularly interesting, because if you consider the probable situation in a year's time, even if the PS3 has proceeded to get better (as Dervish suggested) by that time the 360 will have yet another year of decent games under its belt.

This is all hypothetical, though. The 360 could have a weak year, the PS3 could suddenly sell millions, and the Wii could, I don't know, spontaneously combust or something. The latter is, admittedly, rather unlikely.

[Dervish]

You're still missing the point. This isn't about a hypothetical winner of the "System War." It's about current value. It's meaningless to compare the 360's launch to the PS3's launch. Why? Because you aren't buying the 360 at launch, you're buying it a year after launch! You're essentially trying to invalidate Microsoft's smart decision on being the first to market by claiming that we should "give the PS3 a chance." Again, I state that the Wii seems to have absolutely no problem selling, despite the 360's head start. Why must we cut the PS3 slack in this department? From a different standpoint, Sony and game developers had a full year extra on top of the 360 to spend polishing system features and games, yet the PS3 launch is almost identical to the 360's lackluster one.

I'm not missing any points here. I'm not trying to declare a winner in the system war, and I am not attempting to say that the PS3 has a better current value than the 360 (or even Wii, to a degree). I have simply been stating something that pisses me off - the comparison of the PS3 at launch to the 360 a full year after its release. I find it an unfair comparison in many respects, especially when people are unwilling to even CONSIDER that there are other methods of comparison between these two systems than "current value."

And I DO have a right to compare the two launches, as I've purchased both systems at launch! And you know what I find, in retrospect? Microsoft Xbox 360's launch sucked ass in my opinion, while PS3's has been decent. Not great, but decent. I am impressed that PS3 game developers, when given an extra year to make their launch titles and despite a system architecture that NOBODY knows how to code effectively for, managed to release a selection of games which were gameplay-wise and graphically on par with a system which had been out for 1 year. I am also thankful that my PS3 did not break in the first week of me owning it, as my (and many other peoples') 360 did. I'm also pretty pleased that my copy of Madden '07 wasn't a ghost of its PS2 counterpart. There are, of course, things I'm not too happy about with my PS3, but when I think about it, compared with the 360's launch I much prefer Sony's release. I think it's better in *almost* every comparable category.

Now this is not to say I think the PS3 is a better system *right now* from the current value standpoint. The 360 obviously is the leader in that department. I even applaud Microsoft's decision to launch their system before Sony and Nintendo's platforms, so as to gain a foothold on the market! I applaud them just the same as I applauded Sony for releasing the PS2 ahead of the GameCube and Xbox - it's a good strategy. On the same token I am not going to completely rag on the PS3 just because it's late to the party, just as I did not rag on the Xbox or GameCube when they released later than the PS2. I could've - both systems had flaws at launch. You know why I didn't? Because it was an unfair comparison then, just as it is an unfair comparison now. And guess what? I gave both systems time before I passed final judgment on them, and lo and behold! Xbox turned out to be an okay console! And GameCube ... well, GameCube had Smash Bros. :)

When customers come into my store and I find out what gaming system fits their needs the best, I usually sell them either an Xbox 360 or a PS2. I don't offer the PS3 to customers usually, because for most of them it is not a good value yet. I did the same with the 360 last year - I sold PS2s instead, because at the time there was no value in a 360. That changed, however, just as it will change with the PS3. I just wish that instead of bitching about how much people think the PS3 sucks compared to the 360, they would stop to consider another method of comparison and realize that hey, the PS3's really not that bad.

[PriZm]

Don't forget you can install the (new public) yellow dog Linux build on your PS3, making it a capable media and emulation center.

[Nario]

It doesn't have Smash.

That's probably the worst excuse I have EVER heard. I may be a Nintendo fanboy, but I must say that there are a lot of games for Xbox 360 that even I enjoy, and Wii is my thing. You could easily say the exact same thing for the Wii, though, because "it doesn't have Final Fantasy XIII!" Here's the thing, though: Super Smash Bros. Brawl isn't even out for the Wii yet, so I guess you shouldn't buy a Wii either because "it doesn't have Super Smash Bros. Brawl!" Seriously, your logic really disturbs me. O.o

Nonetheless, Xbox 360 has just so many more worthwhile games than PS3 and Wii, and Wii has more worthwhile games than PS3. If you all don't mind, I will take my time and give out my opinion as to which and how many games are worthwhile on each current-gen console:Xbox 360:

- Kameo: Elements of Power
- Perfect Dark Zero
- Call of Duty 2
- Dead Rising
- Gears of War
- Viva Pinata
- Call of Duty 3
- and more

Wii:

- Wii Sports
- The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
- Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz
- Trauma Center: Second Opinion
- Red Steel
- Call of Duty 3
- Elebits

PS3:

- Resistance: Fall of Man
- Call of Duty 3So, according to my opinion, Xbox 360 has more worthwhile games than the other two competitors and Wii has more games than PS3 (ouch). PS3 is going to have to kick it up a notch to stay in the competition, in my honest opinion. Also, I did not include games that will be awesome but are not currently out, therefore getting rid of all the people that are like "Don't get a Wii or PS3 because they don't have Halo 3 or Mass Effect!" or "Don't get an Xbox 360 or PS3 because they don't have Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Mario Galaxy, or Metroid Prime 3: Corruption!" or "Don't get an Xbox 360 or Wii because they don't have Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy versus XIII, or Devil May Cry 4!"

Seriously, buy a console that has a lot of games to choose from, because you might be playing with that for quite a while. To buy a PS3 and wait (im)patiently for Devil May Cry 4 is just ridiculous; play some Gears of War or Banana Blitz while waiting for it. Also, I don't mind if not a single one of you all like Banana Blitz or any of Rare's games for the Xbox 360, because these are just my opinions. Even so, the first two consoles have more worthwhile games than PS3. ;)

[The Unsung Plumber]

The PS3 also makes a great hand warmer. really, It's been cooler around here for the past couple of days, and after a few hours of Resistance It's blowing nice warm air out the side. That makes it the superior system.



http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[The Damned]

The PS3 also makes a great hand warmer. really, It's been cooler around here for the past couple of days, and after a few hours of Resistance It's blowing nice warm air out the side. That makes it the superior system.

http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif
Oh. Well then, I take back everything I said about the PS3 not being a good value. All that other stuff and it's a space heater? I'm sold.

[The Unsung Plumber]

The PS3 also makes a great hand warmer. really, It's been cooler around here for the past couple of days, and after a few hours of Resistance It's blowing nice warm air out the side. That makes it the superior system.



http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

Oh. Well then, I take back everything I said about the PS3 not being a good value. All that other stuff and it's a space heater? I'm sold.

He has been converted. All others will submit quietly or they will have their thumbs removed.

[Bahamut]

Heh, I might end up with some PS3s sometime in the next few months because I am preparing for a joint venture of starting a video game website with one of my best friends.
Things should be interesting with having all three consoles at my discretion :) .

[The Damned]

So. Uh... about that Blu-Ray DVD format... I don't know if it's going to catch on now. The porn business isn't going to support it (http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/83552). The best part? It's not the porn companies that don't want to use Blu-Ray; it's Sony. Sony has allegedly threatened to take the licenses away of anyone who would publish porn on Blu-Ray. From the article:
He then went on to explain that he had in fact wanted to publish his movies on Blu-ray Disc, but that all Blu-ray Disc copying facilities in the United States had refused to cooperate. The companies had unanimously declared that Sony had threatened to withdraw their Blu-ray licenses should they stoop to making HD copies of pornographic films, Joone said.
Porn is supposed to be the majority of DVD sales, and VHS porn must have been pretty big. Even with the internet supplying quicker and cheaper (even free) porn, there will still be people that buy DVDs. Or in this case, HD-DVDs.

Looks like Sony's format took another hit. Anyone still want me to believe that the PS3 is a good value as a movie player? I see less and less of a chance that Blu-Ray will even be around in a few years. Only if all the major movie studios go with it, will we see it stick around. At that point, however, we'll have two different formats still fighting each other.

[hamburglar]

So. Uh... about that Blu-Ray DVD format... I don't know if it's going to catch on now. The porn business isn't going to support it (http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/83552). The best part? It's not the porn companies that don't want to use Blu-Ray; it's Sony. Sony has allegedly threatened to take the licenses away of anyone who would publish porn on Blu-Ray. From the article:

Porn is supposed to be the majority of DVD sales, and VHS porn must have been pretty big. Even with the internet supplying quicker and cheaper (even free) porn, there will still be people that buy DVDs. Or in this case, HD-DVDs.

Looks like Sony's format took another hit. Anyone still want me to believe that the PS3 is a good value as a movie player? I see less and less of a chance that Blu-Ray will even be around in a few years. Only if all the major movie studios go with it, will we see it stick around. At that point, however, we'll have two different formats still fighting each other.

Wasn't one of the downfalls of Betamax not supporting porn? Hasn't Sony learned their lesson yet?

[G_D]

According to an article I read yesterday (I'm too lazy to look it up), the same thing happened with VHS vs. Betamax. Sony wouldn't allow porn to be distributed on their format, and look where the format ended up...

Of course, it could be coincidence, but I personally wouldn't bet on it.

Edit: Jacked!

[SilverStar]

So. Uh... about that Blu-Ray DVD format... I don't know if it's going to catch on now. The porn business isn't going to support it (http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/83552). The best part? It's not the porn companies that don't want to use Blu-Ray; it's Sony. Sony has allegedly threatened to take the licenses away of anyone who would publish porn on Blu-Ray. From the article:

Porn is supposed to be the majority of DVD sales, and VHS porn must have been pretty big. Even with the internet supplying quicker and cheaper (even free) porn, there will still be people that buy DVDs. Or in this case, HD-DVDs.

Looks like Sony's format took another hit. Anyone still want me to believe that the PS3 is a good value as a movie player? I see less and less of a chance that Blu-Ray will even be around in a few years. Only if all the major movie studios go with it, will we see it stick around. At that point, however, we'll have two different formats still fighting each other.

Nice. Hybrid DVD porn! Regular DVD on one side, HD-DVD on the reverse! *yoink and wank!* :P

[The Damned]

Anyone want a significant discount (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/13/deal-or-no-deal-100-off-ps3-by-giving-up-ps2/) on a PS3? No problem. Just trade in your PS2, your second controller and your memory card. Now you have a system that also plays PS2 games, and it only cost you $400 to $500!

AWESOME DEAL!

Who in their right mind would take this trade? Get rid of a system with shitloads of games for it, that only costs a little over a hundred bucks, and get rid of not only your extra controller, but your memory card as well? For a system that only has one controller (with no rumble and an unused tilt feature), no pack-in game, and you still have to pay three to four times as much for?

[Petara]

Anyone want a significant discount (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/13/deal-or-no-deal-100-off-ps3-by-giving-up-ps2/) on a PS3? No problem. Just trade in your PS2, your second controller and your memory card. Now you have a system that also plays PS2 games, and it only cost you $400 to $500!

AWESOME DEAL!

Who in their right mind would take this trade? Get rid of a system with shitloads of games for it, that only costs a little over a hundred bucks, and get rid of not only your extra controller, but your memory card as well? For a system that only has one controller (with no rumble and an unused tilt feature), no pack-in game, and you still have to pay three to four times as much for?

Yikes. That's pretty weak. I actually almost gave my PS2 to one of my friends when I got the 3, but soon realized the HDMI conversion discrepancies when playing PS1 games. PS1 games actually do look worse on the 3 than the 2. Of course, I take into account the size and resolution differences between the TVs I used. Nasty looking edges and some other eyesores that weren't all too apparent on my 27in Wega, show up quite vivid on my new 32in Phillips LCD HD. I was praying there wouldn't be quality issues with the backwards compatibilty, but it looks like the Sony gods have smited me.

[SilverStar]

Anyone want a significant discount (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/13/deal-or-no-deal-100-off-ps3-by-giving-up-ps2/) on a PS3? No problem. Just trade in your PS2, your second controller and your memory card. Now you have a system that also plays PS2 games, and it only cost you $400 to $500!

AWESOME DEAL!

Who in their right mind would take this trade? Get rid of a system with shitloads of games for it, that only costs a little over a hundred bucks, and get rid of not only your extra controller, but your memory card as well? For a system that only has one controller (with no rumble and an unused tilt feature), no pack-in game, and you still have to pay three to four times as much for?

Here's the real story..

http://kotaku.com/gaming/business/sony-vp-on-those-stacks-of-consoles-227588.php

"...what we do pay attention to is that month in, month out, the PlayStation 2 continues to outsell Xbox 360. I think you see the consumers voting with their wallets on the PlayStation brand. But also, if people want to go out and buy a 360, their stacked pretty high at retail and yet, six-year-old technology is outselling it. I also think there's another trend going on. Every Sunday in the paper, there's a new deal with a free controller or a free game or $100 off all discounting the 360. I don't think you take those measures if you're selling as expected." Peter Dille - Senior VP of Marketing, SCEA

That was posted on Wednesday. 3 days later, one of Sony's largest retail chains for the PS3, announce a sale for $100 off if you give up ~$150 worth of gear.

[The Damned]

Sony. Insert foot directly to mouth.

[SilverStar]

Sony. Insert foot directly to mouth.

Sony reminds me of the ever-tarded "Stop hitting yourself!" type of bullying.. Only no one is holding their arm as they keep punching themselves increasingly hard in the face, along with a few swift kicks to their own nuts.

Sony: "You're not laughing -AT- us, you're laughing -WITH- us! ...Right? Heheh...?"

[The Damned]

Wow. Using any third-party cables or accessories? Say good-bye to your warranty.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789061

And to those that are thinking "bullshit", from the Sony PS3 manual:
THIS WARRANTY SHALL ALSO BE VOIDABLE BY SCEA IF (1) SCEA REASONABLY BELIEVES THAT THE PS3TM SYSTEM HAS BEEN USED IN A MANNER THAT WOULD VIOLATE THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF A SEPARATE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR SYSTEM SOFTWARE; OR (2) THE PRODUCT IS USED WITH PRODUCTS NOT SOLD OR LICENSED BY SCEA (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, NON-LICENSED GAME ENHANCEMENT DEVICES, CONTROLLERS, ADAPTORS AND POWER SUPPLY DEVICES).
Nice. Sony can get out of their warranty agreement because you used an identical HDMI cable to theirs, except it didn't have a Sony logo on it.

[TimberWolf]

Wow. Using any third-party cables or accessories? Say good-bye to your warranty.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789061

And to those that are thinking "bullshit", from the Sony PS3 manual:

Nice. Sony can get out of their warranty agreement because you used an identical HDMI cable to theirs, except it didn't have a Sony logo on it.
It's because sony hates you.

[Airwalker]

Here's the real story..

http://kotaku.com/gaming/business/sony-vp-on-those-stacks-of-consoles-227588.php

"...what we do pay attention to is that month in, month out, the PlayStation 2 continues to outsell Xbox 360. I think you see the consumers voting with their wallets on the PlayStation brand. But also, if people want to go out and buy a 360, their stacked pretty high at retail and yet, six-year-old technology is outselling it. I also think there's another trend going on. Every Sunday in the paper, there's a new deal with a free controller or a free game or $100 off all discounting the 360. I don't think you take those measures if you're selling as expected." Peter Dille - Senior VP of Marketing, SCEA

That was posted on Wednesday. 3 days later, one of Sony's largest retail chains for the PS3, announce a sale for $100 off if you give up ~$150 worth of gear.

I bet his head would have exploded if you asked the same guy as a follow-up why he thought the PS2 was outselling the PS3.

[SilverStar]

Wow. Using any third-party cables or accessories? Say good-bye to your warranty.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789061

And to those that are thinking "bullshit", from the Sony PS3 manual:

Nice. Sony can get out of their warranty agreement because you used an identical HDMI cable to theirs, except it didn't have a Sony logo on it.

I LOL at Sony.

Then again, this is almost getting as old as mocking Jack Thompson is. And even more predictable.

[linkspast]

I LOL at Sony.

Then again, this is almost getting as old as mocking Jack Thompson is. And even more predictable.

Yeah... When was the last time Sony said some good news...

[Soma]

Not really ps3 related but apparently Toshiba is going to be making triple layer HD-DVD's which hold 51 Gigs of data. But since the xbox 360 doesn't really use HD-DVD's for games (yet) i guess it's kind of irrelevant. But it's a chink in sonys armor since they've just been saying "It's all about capacity."


http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/15/tosh_touts_51gb_hddvd/

"Toshiba has submitted a triple-layer, 51GB HD DVD-ROM disc to the standard's overseer in the hope the technology will be adopted as a standard by the end of the year. If approved, it allow the format to exceed the 50GB storage capacity of rival medium Blu-ray Disc."


"The snag, of course, is that today's HD DVD players will be incapable of reading the new disc, which is something of a problem for early adopters, who will presumably have to buy new kit. Toshiba last week positioned the new disc as an "extended capacity, high-end option""

[Razumen]

Not really ps3 related but apparently Toshiba is going to be making triple layer HD-DVD's which hold 51 Gigs of data. But since the xbox 360 doesn't really use HD-DVD's for games (yet) i guess it's kind of irrelevant. But it's a chink in sonys armor since they've just been saying "It's all about capacity."


http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/15/tosh_touts_51gb_hddvd/

"Toshiba has submitted a triple-layer, 51GB HD DVD-ROM disc to the standard's overseer in the hope the technology will be adopted as a standard by the end of the year. If approved, it allow the format to exceed the 50GB storage capacity of rival medium Blu-ray Disc."


"The snag, of course, is that today's HD DVD players will be incapable of reading the new disc, which is something of a problem for early adopters, who will presumably have to buy new kit. Toshiba last week positioned the new disc as an "extended capacity, high-end option""

That's not really much of a advantage over Bluray, considering a single sided BR disc can hold 50GB, they could just as easily make a 2-3 layer disc that holds 100-150GB.

Good news for HD-DVDs though if it becomes supported and not restrictively expensive like DL-DVDs are still today.

[Mr.Roboto]

Worst week for PS3 in Japan(And most consoles in general too.) (http://ps2.boomtown.net/en_uk/articles/art.view.php?id=13265)

[linkspast]

You guys know about this right... Triple layer HD, NOTHING!

This is what its all about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc

Hmmm 1gb/s and the ability to hold 3.9 TB (terabytes) of info. a terabyte is 1000gb.

[KWarp]

I think you guys are too caught up in the numbers. Why do they matter?

[SilverStar]

I think you guys are too caught up in the numbers. Why do they matter?

Ask Sony? They're the ones saying you can't make fun games without having access to 50GB worth of storage. :P

Edit:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6164439.html

This is ouch for both camps.. but especially for Sony.

According to the latest numbers from Media-Create, only 25,531 PS3s were sold during the week that ended on January 14.

That's 25K PS3 sold in Japan, in a 1-week period.. Compared to 93K units for the Wii. Both are low numbers, but seeing the PS3 sales that low actually hurts me. o.o

[Razumen]

[Originally Posted by KWarp View Post
I think you guys are too caught up in the numbers. Why do they matter?]

Ask Sony? They're the ones saying you can't make fun games without having access to 50GB worth of storage. :P

I've never heard them say that, and while I'm more interested in how much the new discs can hold for personal reasons (backups, etc.), it is true that the more spacious BR discs do help more than regular DVDs when it comes to the more demanding space requirements of today's games. Sure, BR isn't an absolute neccessity at the moment, but at least when developers start to really take advantage of the PS3, they won't have to worry about space constraints.

It's too bad the read speed of the drive is so slow though.

[Ero Elohim]

That's not really much of a advantage over Bluray, considering a single sided BR disc can hold 50GB, they could just as easily make a 2-3 layer disc that holds 100-150GB.

Good news for HD-DVDs though if it becomes supported and not restrictively expensive like DL-DVDs are still today.

Actually, the 50GB BD is a dual layer disc. A standard-size BD disc is 25 GB per layer.

[SilverStar]

I've never heard them say that, and while I'm more interested in how much the new discs can hold for personal reasons (backups, etc.), it is true that the more spacious BR discs do help more than regular DVDs when it comes to the more demanding space requirements of today's games. Sure, BR isn't an absolute neccessity at the moment, but at least when developers start to really take advantage of the PS3, they won't have to worry about space constraints.

It's too bad the read speed of the drive is so slow though.

BluRay offers -nothing- for gameplay, that DVD doesn't already more than accomplish. If they really want to make something special, they should work on making the in-game graphics, with all their ultra high resolution textures, as clean and crisp as the pre-rendered cinematics.

The only thing eating up all that disc space now, is still the same thing that's been eating it up for years. In-game movies, pre-rendered using something completely unrelated to the in-game engine.

Then again, I see people complaining that Oblivion requires a -10- gig install on the PC.. the game doesn't even fill an entire single-layer DVD. And it is, by far, the largest game out there. Go straight for just the ultra high resolution textures and none of the low res ones, and the game wouldn't be any larger. They could double EVERYTHING in the game and still only fill a single DVD fully, so no.. BluRay isn't needed and won't be for a VERY long time, unless developers want to use all of the PS3's power to render low quality graphics and bluray quality pre-rendered cutscenes. :P

[The Damned]

I have heard and read that the Cell processor is only good for linear processing (straight number crunching, like physics), and is terrible for anything non-linear (like AI, something that a lot of games use).

Prove/disprove/discuss.

[SilverStar]

I have heard and read that the Cell processor is only good for linear processing (straight number crunching, like physics), and is terrible for anything non-linear (like AI, something that a lot of games use).

Prove/disprove/discuss.

Can only handle floating point numbers to 3 decimal places. Which means the CPU cannot handle doing any sort of 3D graphics rendering, and generally fails at physics processing.

AI processing however, is based on pure integers and boolean logic. So at least the potential is there for someone to program a game with a million potential AI calls per second, if someone wanted to spend a decade calculating all the possible issues that would come up with it.

[Cecilff2]

You could always wait and get this version (http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/20/ken-kutaragi-sez-i-promise-an-av-centric-ps3/) of the ps3

I wonder how heavy that thing is.

[The Damned]

At $2500 US, it damn well better weigh its price in gold.

[Razumen]

BluRay offers -nothing- for gameplay, that DVD doesn't already more than accomplish. If they really want to make something special, they should work on making the in-game graphics, with all their ultra high resolution textures, as clean and crisp as the pre-rendered cinematics.

The only thing eating up all that disc space now, is still the same thing that's been eating it up for years. In-game movies, pre-rendered using something completely unrelated to the in-game engine.

Then again, I see people complaining that Oblivion requires a -10- gig install on the PC.. the game doesn't even fill an entire single-layer DVD. And it is, by far, the largest game out there. Go straight for just the ultra high resolution textures and none of the low res ones, and the game wouldn't be any larger. They could double EVERYTHING in the game and still only fill a single DVD fully, so no.. BluRay isn't needed and won't be for a VERY long time, unless developers want to use all of the PS3's power to render low quality graphics and bluray quality pre-rendered cutscenes. :P

So what if they're storing prerendered cinematics on there, some people actually like watching well done cutscenes, they are undoubtably better looking than rendered ones and there's no real point in rendering a cutscene in realtime anyways. (it might help immersion somewhat, but if you're using cutscenes that obviously doesn't matter that much)

You'll also note that I said the extra space benefits games not gameplay, there's quite a big difference there.

As for Oblivion, yeah the world is large, but that size comes at the expense of variety. A lot of the content is reused throughout the whole game, especially for the landscape and monsters (I was hoping Oblivion would have a more interesting landscape, ALA Gothic 2, rather than the boring old sole heightmap based implementation, but it was not to be.)

[The Damned]

So what if they're storing prerendered cinematics on there, some people actually like watching well done cutscenes, they are undoubtably better looking than rendered ones and there's no real point in rendering a cutscene in realtime anyways. (it might help immersion somewhat, but if you're using cutscenes that obviously doesn't matter that much)
The thing is, Sony is constantly talking about how fast and powerful their system is. From the way they hype it, the thing sounds like it should render Pixar movies in real-time.

That brings up the question: if the PS3 is so powerful that it can do a movie in real-time, why bother having all that room for pre-rendered cut scenes?

[SilverStar]

As for Oblivion, yeah the world is large, but that size comes at the expense of variety. A lot of the content is reused throughout the whole game, especially for the landscape and monsters (I was hoping Oblivion would have a more interesting landscape, ALA Gothic 2, rather than the boring old sole heightmap based implementation, but it was not to be.)

You mean like.. almost every game? Look at any actual, large game, and see how many of the textures get reused. Unless the game itself goes between a half dozen worlds, chances are it reuses 90% of the textures in every level.

[The Damned]

And half of those textures are some shade of brown.

[HalcyonSpirit]

And half of those textures are some shade of brown.

Yep, because real is brown. (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=224)

Rendering movie-quality cut scenes in real time seems a little out of its league, even after developers learn how to use it. Last I heard, it takes a decent amount of time for the computers at Pixar to render a single frame of a movie. Unless the PS3 is insanely powerful, pre-rendered cut scenes are still required, at least when it comes to cut scenes that are comparable in quality to movie scenes. The PS3 is powerful, but unless it's got power in there that we don't know about, it's not that powerful.

[SilverStar]

There's only so many ways you can change up the way things work, while still keeping a unified atmosphere. The ground can only be so many ways, brick walls only have so many textures, cave walls only come in so many colors..

[The Damned]

Yep, because real is brown. (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=224)

Rendering movie-quality cut scenes in real time seems a little out of its league, even after developers learn how to use it. Last I heard, it takes a decent amount of time for the computers at Pixar to render a single frame of a movie. Unless the PS3 is insanely powerful, pre-rendered cut scenes are still required, at least when it comes to cut scenes that are comparable in quality to movie scenes. The PS3 is powerful, but unless it's got power in there that we don't know about, it's not that powerful.
What I meant was that with the way Sony talks about their hardware, pre-rendered cut scenes shouldn't even exist anymore. I guess the sarcasm was a little too light, there.

[SilverStar]

What I meant was that with the way Sony talks about their hardware, pre-rendered cut scenes shouldn't even exist anymore. I guess the sarcasm was a little too light, there.

Hey, remember! You can render Spider-Man 3 in real-time! I say it's time to take Sony to task on their BS.

And in general, the only thing they need pre-rendered scenes for these days, are because they still suck at doing facial expressions in real-time, without making it look like shit.

[HalcyonSpirit]

I guess the sarcasm was a little too light, there.

Actually, I just chose to ignore the sarcasm in an attempt to give my post a little more relevancy to the topic than just the link. :p

And in general, the only thing they need pre-rendered scenes for these days, are because they still suck at doing facial expressions in real-time, without making it look like shit.

Yeah... facial expressions can really make-or-break the immersion factor when it comes to cut scenes. You could be watching a scene and be perfectly fine, but if a single expression is screwed up, it can throw people for a loop. Brings them back into reality and whatnot.

[Razumen]

Actually, the 50GB BD is a dual layer disc. A standard-size BD disc is 25 GB per layer.

You're right, I was looking at the wrong section. There's also a experimental disc that has six layers and can hold 200GB, but whether that'll ever become available is doubtfull.

You mean like.. almost every game? Look at any actual, large game, and see how many of the textures get reused. Unless the game itself goes between a half dozen worlds, chances are it reuses 90% of the textures in every level.

Just because a lot of games do it doesn't make it a good thing. I also wasn't just talking about textures, but while we're on that subject, hopefully id's new Megatexture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatexture) technology will help alleviate that problem somewhat.

[G_D]

Yeah... facial expressions can really make-or-break the immersion factor when it comes to cut scenes. You could be watching a scene and be perfectly fine, but if a single expression is screwed up, it can throw people for a loop. Brings them back into reality and whatnot.

That's actually what killed my interest in FF: Spirits Within. I saw just one scene where the main character was making this ridiculously terrible face, and I thought "nope, not for me."

It's also the one thing I really dislike about Oblivion. (I hope that was slightly on topic...)

[Unstable Hamster]

Hey, I was wondering about the ps3's controller and if it can possibly hook up to the PC and be used as a controller in PC games? I did try hooking one up, it did recognize the fact that it was a PS3 controller, yet it didn't work as a controller for PC games, is there a certain program I could use to get it to work?

[The Unsung Plumber]

Sony Fixes Backward Compatibility Issues in PS3 Update (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3156664)

It's about time. now I can box up my PS2 and get more space.


EDIT:Hey, I was wondering about the ps3's controller and if it can possibly hook up to the PC and be used as a controller in PC games? I did try hooking one up, it did recognize the fact that it was a PS3 controller, yet it didn't work as a controller for PC games, is there a certain program I could use to get it to work?

This(is a link) (http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=45209) is the only thing I found, but it didn't work for me.

[SilverStar]

Sony Fixes Backward Compatibility Issues in PS3 Update (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3156664)

It's about time. now I can box up my PS2 and get more space.


Fixing the BC issues is indeed a major mark up point for Sony.

Now if only they'd stop advertising the competition when they try to advertise their own stuff. And maybe have a launch lineup that wasn't done a year ago on the 360.

[Unstable Hamster]

Thanks for the link plumber, I'll see if I can get that to work for me.
So they fixed the weird lines across the ps2 games? Sweet.

And I thought it was my video cord going crazy.

[parasoul]

Great. Now maybe they can spread around a patch that makes it possible to download stuff on the PS3 and actually play games or watch DVDs at the same time. Retarded design.

[Bahamut]

Great. Now maybe they can spread around a patch that makes it possible to grill my burgers

Fixed .

[KWarp]

Fixed .

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Hh3tBdHwM

[Bahamut]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Hh3tBdHwM

Oh, so it can do so out of the box, whadda know?

[Bahamut]

So for all of the PS3 bashing I've done, I'm now the owner of a PS3. Let's see how it stacks up against the negative hype.

[Petara]

Welcome to the club. Recommendations: Buy Resistance: Fall of man and rent Call of Duty... that's about it as far as I'm concerned. We can look forward to Rainbow Six: Vegas and Assassin's Creed in the near future. It's still gonna take a while for this console to bloom, but it will.

[PriZm]

Btw, I'm PriZm001 on Resistance (PSNetwork).

I'll probably be buying virtua fighter 5 soon too.

[Bahamut]

Welcome to the club. Recommendations: Buy Resistance: Fall of man and rent Call of Duty... that's about it as far as I'm concerned. We can look forward to Rainbow Six: Vegas and Assassin's Creed in the near future. It's still gonna take a while for this console to bloom, but it will.

Well, I got my PS3 off of ebay - for $647, it comes with the PS3 still sealed (new) & Call of Duty 3 lol

I want to get Resistance, and Virtua Fighter 5, which should I pick first? This $60 price tag on these 360 & PS3 games make me :( .

[Evilhead]

If you've already got a FPS why not get VF5? I bet the online play would be excellent.

[Bahamut]

I was sort of leaning towards VF5 too, since Gears of War impressed me greatly (and is so fun to play) and I was sort of lukewarm towards the controller for Resistance...I guess that seals it (for now). I'll probably pick up Resistance if I can find it cheap somewhere though.

[Soma]

If you've already got a FPS why not get VF5? I bet the online play would be excellent.

Virtua Fighter5 isn't online is it? I'm pretty sure it's not. It's one of the reasons i want a ps3, but i'm hoping that online play might be added to the 360 version.

[Ero Elohim]

If you've already got a FPS why not get VF5? I bet the online play would be excellent.

VF5 for PS3 has no online play.

[Beatdown]

Until I either find an arcade stick comparable to this one (http://gear.ign.com/articles/684/684566p1.html) or find a way to plug mine into a PS3, there will be no point in me purchasing Virtua Fighter 5 (not even for the awesome Rey Mysterio guy). I'm also getting real tired of having to almost completly re-learn my favorite character (Vanessa) after each installment of the series. The changes between VF4 and VF4:E were pretty significant, but after watching a few gameplay trailers she just looks different. Like Ivy SC2/SC3 different. Ugh.

What makes it worse is the only PS3 arcade stick I've found has the two things I hate the most: a ball joystick more suited for playing 1980's arcade games and a crooked button layout. To make matters even worse it's incompatable with PS2 fighting games played on the PS3, making it completly useless for pretty much every other great fighter out.

[Drack]

Oh shit!

PAL PS3s are going to have worse PS2 compatibility than the NTSC PS3s, despite the 4 month delay. - Sony is apparantly removing the EE chips and going the software emulation route.

Source (http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/pal-ps3-backwards-compatability-gimped-%5Bupdate%5D-239076.php)

[linkspast]

Yeah that Street fighter stick is awesome. My friend has it, and it feels pretty good. Oh and the Art on it is amazing.

[Prodigal Moon]

Oh shit!

PAL PS3s are going to have worse PS2 compatibility than the NTSC PS3s, despite the 4 month delay. - Sony is apparantly removing the EE chips and going the software emulation route.

Source (http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/pal-ps3-backwards-compatability-gimped-%5Bupdate%5D-239076.php)
I was just reading that on Kotaku and wanted to see if people were also freaking out about it here. The other post has 100+ commenters snarling about canceling pre-orders and whatnot. Pretty entertaining in a way. It does really suck that Sony's only saving something like $27 by removing the chips, whereas PS2 owners are going to lose out on at least $50 from not trading in their old consoles. Either that, or they just won't get to play PS2 games anymore, which is almost unthinkable in a way.

[SilverStar]

Oh shit!

PAL PS3s are going to have worse PS2 compatibility than the NTSC PS3s, despite the 4 month delay. - Sony is apparantly removing the EE chips and going the software emulation route.

Source (http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/pal-ps3-backwards-compatability-gimped-%5Bupdate%5D-239076.php)

Translation(Sony to Europe):

FUCK YOU!

[Bahamut]

If you don't have a PS2 by now, which has better compatibility with the PS2 games anyway, you probably should purchase one before even thinking of a PS3.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I wonder though. If you're looking for a Bluray player (estimated $1000, $900 at the cheapest), a PSX emulator, PS2 emulator, a multimedia center AND PS3 games, it's a pretty decent deal.

I might think about trading in the old PS2 for a PS3 eventually. Still futilely hoping for a price drop after only one year.

[Bahamut]

Yeah, the only friend I have who has a PS3 bought it as a cheap blu-ray player (he has 3 HDTVs...and he's still in undergrad wtf).

[Petara]

I dunno about you folks, but I'm keepin the ol' PS2 around just in case...

[Beatdown]

I wonder though. If you're looking for a Bluray player (estimated $1000, $900 at the cheapest), a PSX emulator, PS2 emulator, a multimedia center AND PS3 games, it's a pretty decent deal.

I might think about trading in the old PS2 for a PS3 eventually. Still futilely hoping for a price drop after only one year.

Hell, a lot of the early PS2's were bought as secondary DVD players. At least this way you're getting a halfway PC with Linux too. I wonder if I can install and run the original Neverwinter Nights...?

[Soma]

The ps2 was my first DVD player. Infact i wasn't all that aware of what DVD's were. The first dvd i bought was Ninja scroll. I don't see Bluray as much of a benefit though, i just bought an HDTV and it's only 720p/ 1080i, i couldn't afford a 1080p bravia or anything. But it seems more like you need a great TV to take advantage of the bluray player. But i suppose when i do get a ps3 (maybe next year though i'd like to say late this year) I'll probably start buying blu ray movies and ditch DVD. why the hell not?

[Petara]

I don't see Bluray as much of a benefit though, i just bought an HDTV and it's only 720p/ 1080i, i couldn't afford a 1080p bravia or anything. But it seems more like you need a great TV to take advantage of the bluray player. But i suppose when i do get a ps3 (maybe next year though i'd like to say late this year) I'll probably start buying blu ray movies and ditch DVD. why the hell not?

ONLY 720p/1080i? I gotta tell ya, it's nothing to shake your fist at. 1080p is far overrated. My Philips HD doesn't have 1080p capability, but the quality at interlaced mode compared to standard definition is very much noticable. I've only bought a few bluray movies (mostly because they're freakin expensive) but they look wonderful on my tv. I am quite content with it and probably will be for quite a while.

[Beatdown]

I don't see Bluray as much of a benefit though
This was my benefit. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5jEbZt6AIQ) But that's just me.

[Bahamut]

This was my benefit. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5jEbZt6AIQ) But that's just me.

I forgot about that, that's pretty good. At least scratches are harder to get now.

I think I'm going to win an auction for Resistance, so soon enough I'll have that game. It's sort of funny searching on ebay though, people are stupid. I saw an auction shoot above $700 for a 60 GB PS3 & Call of Duty 3, yet I got the same package from a buy it now for $647 shipped (with the free BD-DVD Talladega Nights). There's another auction where it was just one bid for $1000 for a 60 GB PS3, extra controller, and Genji - which is worth ~$700. So stupid

[Beatdown]

Been messing around with the Full Auto 2 demo, playing online with random people. Of all the car combat games I've played over the years, none have made putting a ghetto battering ram on the grill of your car and bashing the shit out of someone so much fun. I've been headbutting people online all day.

[Petara]

WTF? So, for no apparent reason, all my saved data for the PS2 games I've been playing just disappeared. Guess that'll teach me to backup my shit...

The disappointments keep stacking up.

[Bahamut]

So, I got my brand new PS3 in the mail today...along with Diablo 2, which has prevented me from playing the PS3 so far. I'll give my first impressions soon enough...

Although, it's pretty shiny and heavy. This thing is at least 2x the volume of the Wii and side by side, the Wii looks sort of puny compared to it.

[sgx]

I want flOw.... :(

And that's about it.

[Bahamut]

So I finally took my PS3 out for a run...what was meant to be only a 1 hour play quickly turned into 2, as I was playing a lot of Virtua Fighter 5. I haven't been this sucked into a fighter for a while, so kudos to Sega for maintaining a fine line of fighters. Unfortunately, as I turned off the PS3, I noticed it emits heat like a motherfucker - putting other consoles to the right of it is a pretty bad idea, as that's where it emits its heat.

Also, while my TV is shit, I'm pretty certain that the PS3 has poor support for older TVs - I'm hearing weird sounds when I do things like turn off the PS3 via the controller, and the picture quality isn't sharp. The refreshing of the image looks really bad...I'm hoping this is fixed with a firmware update, but somehow, I don't think Sony really dealt with it.

[Katsurugi]

So, I got my brand new PS3 in the mail today...along with Diablo 2, which has prevented me from playing the PS3 so far. I'll give my first impressions soon enough...

Although, it's pretty shiny and heavy. This thing is at least 2x the volume of the Wii and side by side, the Wii looks sort of puny compared to it.

Why are you buying all of this stuff?? I thought you were poor!!

[Bahamut]

Why are you buying all of this stuff?? I thought you were poor!!

Yeah but this is a business investment (starting a game site) ;-)

[Petara]

So I finally took my PS3 out for a run...what was meant to be only a 1 hour play quickly turned into 2, as I was playing a lot of Virtua Fighter 5. I haven't been this sucked into a fighter for a while, so kudos to Sega for maintaining a fine line of fighters. Unfortunately, as I turned off the PS3, I noticed it emits heat like a motherfucker - putting other consoles to the right of it is a pretty bad idea, as that's where it emits its heat.

Yeah, man, Virtua FIghter is pretty badass. I just picked it up a couple days ago. The heat kinda worries me too, but it has helped as a mini space heater during this winter.

Also, while my TV is shit, I'm pretty certain that the PS3 has poor support for older TVs - I'm hearing weird sounds when I do things like turn off the PS3 via the controller, and the picture quality isn't sharp. The refreshing of the image looks really bad...I'm hoping this is fixed with a firmware update, but somehow, I don't think Sony really dealt with it.

PS3 no like old TV. Me want BIG Sony Bravia! ---So, uhhhh.... start saving up?

Seems like, at this point, the only remedy is to buy a new TV, which is kind of a shitty deal, but I bit the bullet anyway and blew a grand on a Philips 32" HDTV (Which I would recommend.) I would have liked to get one with Ambilight, but that was a lil out of my price range.

[Baleshadow]

I'm curious, has anybody had success in wirelessly connecting their PS3 to the internet using Nintendo's Wi-fi dongle?

We recently got a PS3 in my apartment, and we're trying to get it to do so. It senses the access point, but I can't seem to find the SSID for it anywhere. If this could be done, it would prevent me from having to run 50 feet of ethernet cable to a working jack. And it would be rather amusing.

[Airwalker]

I'm curious, has anybody had success in wirelessly connecting their PS3 to the internet using Nintendo's Wi-fi dongle?

We recently got a PS3 in my apartment, and we're trying to get it to do so. It senses the access point, but I can't seem to find the SSID for it anywhere. If this could be done, it would prevent me from having to run 50 feet of ethernet cable to a working jack. And it would be rather amusing.

Well, I've played with one of those.

I got a mac laptop hooked up to the Nintendo Wifi dongle, but not using the program that comes with it. You have to hack it to use SoftAP (http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/390312). But, even then I had some trouble--the hacked dongle kept crashing my computer if I had it plugged in at boot-up, and it would stop working after 10 minutes.

So, my roommate and I just decided to go with a wireless router. The dorms have a policy against them, but I think I got it set up just right... one month and counting without them disabling it.

[Beatdown]

Unfortunately, as I turned off the PS3, I noticed it emits heat like a motherfucker - putting other consoles to the right of it is a pretty bad idea, as that's where it emits its heat.

If you check the manual it actually says something in the troubleshooting section about the excessive amount of heat the PS3 puts out and says not to freak out about it. I of course read this as Ken Kutaragi boasting the PS3's superior egg cooking capabilities.

[Nulion]

The PS3 sure does put out a lot of heat...but you've gotta love how quiet it is while it does it.

Was wondering, anybody try out that Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom game? I really don't get why, but I have lately been *addicted* to it!

I'm only borrowing it, but it's definitely going to tide me over for Motorstorm...and when Motorstorm comes along, I'll just think to myself "Hey, you used to spend $60 on N64 games with no problems - you'll survive this", hehe.

Overall, I'm really pleased with the PS3. Was even very pleasently surprised how good it looks on my standard definition crap-o-vision TV using the cables that came in the box to hook it up.

Overpriced, maybe...but you get a lot of bang for your buck, and it's only gonna get better as they patch things up.

Now, where's that 1.60 update...blah! It's supposed to be sometime in March, isn't it?

[I-n-j-i-n]

I'm befuddled at why people even bother getting a PS3 and play it on standard definition. That's taking away the whole reason for getting such a system to begin with. I'd imagine that true 1080p games would be eyepopping. I mean, a shitty 12-inch HDTV on display playing 360 games look flatout gorgeous.

[The Damned]

I'm befuddled at why people even bother getting a PS3.
I saw a few typos, so I fixed them for you.

[Bahamut]

I'll probably have a personal HDTV later this year...and my parents have one at home. But my main reason is to just play games - I wasn't expecting it to be literally garbage on a non-HDTV. The 360 doesn't do that, and the Wii doesn't either, why should the PS3 be any different?

Anyway, back to FF12 playing.

[Thalzon]

I just played Virtua Fighter 5. It was shiny.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Now that reminds me how many hours I pump into Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution lately. And I don't even LIKE fighting games.

I really hope the "VF5 for 360" rumors are true. Because it'll likely be at least a few years until I have enough change to get a PS3.

[KakTheInfected]

Now that reminds me how many hours I pump into Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution lately. And I don't even LIKE fighting games.

I really hope the "VF5 for 360" rumors are true. Because it'll likely be at least a few years until I have enough change to get a PS3.

Rumor...huh.

[bouncerboy15]

Now that reminds me how many hours I pump into Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution lately. And I don't even LIKE fighting games.

I really hope the "VF5 for 360" rumors are true. Because it'll likely be at least a few years until I have enough change to get a PS3.
Rumors....lawl.

[Soma]

It's not a rumor, (VF5 360) comes out in september doesn't it? Something like that..

[KakTheInfected]

August, I think. It will probably be use Live too.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Good to be proven wrong on that one. Just in time I could actually afford a 360 then. It's like an increment. First the Wii, then 360, then PS3, then a brand new PC in that order of attainability.

[Vivi22]

August, I think. It will probably be use Live too.

Not for online play though (most likely anyway). The developers have said they probably won't do a fighting game unless it's something other than VF. They said they tried some stuff to compensate for the lag that could crop up in an online game (even if it's only periodic) and it was like it wasn't even the same game anymore.

[KakTheInfected]

Developers say a lot of things. Like VF5 was supposed to be a PS3 exclusive.

Microsoft will pay them whatever it takes to throw in an online mode.

[Hector]

This is what I don't like about Microsoft--the pushing around. If the lag is a genuine problem for online play, than an online mode should not be implemented--or if it is it should be some silly shadow of the game itself (like the VF characters playing checkers with one another).

[KakTheInfected]

Better to have a slightly laggy experience than not have one at all.

[Bahamut]

Better to have a slightly laggy experience than not have one at all.

Depends on the game. Diablo 2 online when there's massive lag is incredibly frustrating and angering for example.

[KakTheInfected]

I don't see how that relates to an option in a fighter some people may never use. Neither Microsoft or Sega should be criticized if they include it, it wouldn't hurt the quality of the game or affect it's other modes at all.

[Bahamut]

Yes, it would hurt the quality of the game if the online is poor. I rather have everything great than something halfassed amongst a lot of great stuff.

[I-n-j-i-n]

This is what I don't like about Microsoft--the pushing around. If the lag is a genuine problem for online play, than an online mode should not be implemented--or if it is it should be some silly shadow of the game itself (like the VF characters playing checkers with one another).

So pushing for a possible good feature is "pushing around"? How about how Nintendo is pushing developers DOWN when it comes down to online gameplay these days?

Also, DOA4 and other fighting games has worked with Xbox Live before. So there is precedence.

[Evilhead]

Yeah, having online play would be a HUGE reason for getting the 360 version. Even with the AI as good as it is in recent VF games, nothing beats playing humans. Especially with all the character customizations and rankings and whatnot... I really hope they try to do it.

[Merk]

What the crap is this (http://www.thisisliving.tv/) (click on the book)

[Thalzon]

Sony's ad agency is blasting off again.

[Bigfoot]

I get it.






































Wait, no I don't.

[Penfold]

lol, wtf was that??? A grenade getting kicked and thrown around is gonna make me wanna buy a PS3? What stellar logic! :roll:

[Soma]

What the crap is this (http://www.thisisliving.tv/) (click on the book)

Dear sony, that doesn't make any fucking sense.

[FuriousFure]

its a well made short movie. i like it. it comes round and explains why the thing happened that the viewer first saw.

but as for a videogame system. makes as much sense as hmmm... a bunch of sumo warriors in different colored thongs running into each other. bah! who needs to actually sell their product when you can sell a "way of life"?

[Unstable Hamster]

I would have to agree with you guys.

I can't figure that out, at all...

I wonder if they'll ever tell us what that all means.

[linkspast]

Just once Id like to know what sony is thinking.

[Petara]

...wtf?

Of course I didn't get it but I actually kinda liked it for some odd reason. I was hoping the small dog was gonna get the grenade in the end.

[Soma]

I'm glad that immersion and sony finally settlled. I suppose we'll eventually get rumble in the six axis. At least that's what i assume, i don't know what other "sony products" that they would be adding rumble to. It just makes sony look like a bunch of retards with Phil harrison and everybody proclaiming that rumble is a "last generation technology" but i suppose it's worth 115 million or whatever they settled for.

[Nario]

After watching that UK PS3 commercial I started to think about how a lot of Sony's advertisements are shallow, flawed, and sometimes not even understandable. It also seems that they are a bit arrogant in the way they want to sell their products ("even if the PS3 had no games fans will still buy it because of our loyal fanbase" >_<).

I'll just say screw Sony. Screw. Sony.

[atmuh]

After watching that UK PS3 commercial I started to think about how a lot of Sony's advertisements are shallow, flawed, and sometimes not even understandable. It also seems that they are a bit arrogant in the way they want to sell their products ("even if the PS3 had no games fans will still buy it because of our loyal fanbase" >_<).

I'll just say screw Sony. Screw. Sony.

I do believe you belong somewhere around page 5 of this thread.

[FuriousFure]

don't you guys remember nintendos commercials? Multi-Colored Sumos?
Inline Skaters? "get N or get out"? since when did videogame commercials need to make sense?

Sony can do this because people arn't excited about the games. they like this idea that they are a part of this Next level world.

In a society where everyone is trying to find a identity to cling on to, is not strange for a company who prides itself on its following to try an sell an identity? and how are you suppose to sell that, through confusing commercials that really don't make sense. but it makes you want to be in the loop for some reason. and maybe, just maybe, you'll understand the inside joke if you buy a PS3.

remember, commercials are made for the simple people, it gets the name inside thier head and come to mind when it comes to buying.

one of commerical's main reasons is just to get the name inside and keep it there. that's why most car commercials don't sell the car but sell the lifestyle that they connect it with that certain car.

[linkspast]

So I don't know how many of you watch Heroes but there was a seen with a kid playing a ps3. It was some Ninja game.

[kidThunder]

Well...I feel pretty bad about what has been going on with the PS3 lately...Lackluster support, not any good games, won't even play PS1 or PS2 games on there, not too many were shipped out during launch, and last but not least, THE COST!!

It seems like PS3 is probably going to be just like the time when the Sega Saturn came out. I really dunno. The price is obvious: $600+ for a game console is awful, but I'm not sure will PS3 do well overall.

We all know that the Wii is becoming a popular favorite, and 360 is getting more support than it was when that first came out. But with the PS3 in mind, it looks like SONY is beginning to screw up their own marketing just like SEGA did with the Saturn and all of the previous systems (i.e. Genesis, Sega CD, Sega 32X).

[sonicbhoc]

Eh. I knew as soon as I saw the PS3, the stress on graphics and the 600 dollars, it would be a feast for the eyes but the gameplay would leave much to be desired.

After playing Sonic the Hedgehog, my suspicions were confirmed. It's really unfortunate...

[Bahamut]

This thread is retarded. How do you know that PS3 has no good games if you haven't played it? Virtua Fighter 5 kicks ass and is a definite great game to play. Motorstorm comes out today too, although I refuse to pick it up yet when I have 26 unfinished games sitting around here.

Also taking into account inflation, the PS3's price isn't the worst offender, as pricey as it is. If I remember right, the SNES cost comparably as much, and the games certainly were more expensive back then when adjusted for inflation.

[CE]

The backwards compatibility has been fixed with the 1.5 firmware update in Japan and America. In Europe the BC is limited (they claim it's still over 1000 games though, not confirmed) and the price is jacked up to corresponding 792$ approximately.

So yeah, apart from Europe, crystal clear backwards compatibility. And it's still a bluray player. Sony's cheapest Bluray player is currently 600$, so why shouldn't you get a PS3? It is worth the price.

Oh and kidThunder, there's already a thread for this. You haven't stopped making random threads in pretty much 6 months?

Wow.

[kidThunder]

This thread is retarded. How do you know that PS3 has no good games if you haven't played it? Virtua Fighter 5 kicks ass and is a definite great game to play. Motorstorm comes out today too, although I refuse to pick it up yet when I have 26 unfinished games sitting around here.

Also taking into account inflation, the PS3's price isn't the worst offender, as pricey as it is. If I remember right, the SNES cost comparably as much, and the games certainly were more expensive back then when adjusted for inflation.True VF5 is a good game, but I'm looking forward to games like MGS4(in which Konami hasn't released it as of yet)...That's what I'm up for. Motorstorm...I never heard of that. But other games on PS3...I don't exactly know for sure if they are appealing to the VG audience.

Red Steel on the Wii is CRAP...but people liked it.
PDZ on 360 was also CRAP...but people liked that as well...

But I was actually saying it looks like PS3 may be on life support as of now, because the system itself isn't getting much support just as the 360 and the wii are.

[PassivePretentiousness]

This thread is retarded. How do you know that PS3 has no good games if you haven't played it? Virtua Fighter 5 kicks ass and is a definite great game to play. Motorstorm comes out today too, although I refuse to pick it up yet when I have 26 unfinished games sitting around here.

Also taking into account inflation, the PS3's price isn't the worst offender, as pricey as it is. If I remember right, the SNES cost comparably as much, and the games certainly were more expensive back then when adjusted for inflation.

SNES was $250 and came with two controllers and a game. Let's add $50 to the price of the PS3 and ignore the lack of second controller for the sake of argument.

According to the inflation calculator (http://www.westegg.com/inflation/), the SNES would be $392 today.

So.

650-392 = NOT ZERO

[CE]

True VF5 is a good game, but I'm looking forward to games like MGS4(in which Konami hasn't released it as of yet)...That's what I'm up for. Motorstorm...I never heard of that. But other games on PS3...I don't exactly know for sure if they are appealing to the VG audience.

Red Steel on the Wii is CRAP...but people liked it.
PDZ on 360 was also CRAP...but people liked that as well...

But I was actually saying it looks like PS3 may be on life support as of now, because the system itself isn't getting much support just as the 360 and the wii are.

Talking about the PS3 and not knowing what Motorstorm is is like discussing slavery without knowing what a black person is. Granted, it's not THAT good, but it's enough for a new IP, like burnout.

[G_D]

Eh, I've played Motorstorm, and I honestly didn't like it as much as Excite Truck. That really all comes down to opinion, though. I mean, the lack of rumble on Motorstorm really killed it for me (I'm being serious, unfortunately), but other than that it seemed like a pretty good game. Looked pretty (as it should).

Shouldn't this thread be locked by now, though?

[watkinzez]

sony is teh doomed lol
Wouldn't mind playing one myself. Hurry up, March 23.

[Petara]

So I don't know how many of you watch Heroes but there was a seen with a kid playing a ps3. It was some Ninja game.

Could it have possibly been Genji?

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/adventure/genji/index.html?q=genji

[Sir_NutS]

Also taking into account inflation, the PS3's price isn't the worst offender, as pricey as it is. If I remember right, the SNES cost comparably as much, and the games certainly were more expensive back then when adjusted for inflation.

Sorry Bahamut but that's not true. Adjusted for inflation should be around 320~330 dollars, as PP stated.

I think weverybody's waiting for the big games to come out to make a judgement on how the ps3 will fare(that is, Metal gear anf FFXII). If they don't help the brand, and blu-ray doesn't stays firmly as the new data storage medium, it has a high probability of being just another overpriced and failed console.

However as I said, everyone's waiting for the big games to come out to make a judgement. Good games are coming out already like tekken 5, virtua fighter and motorstorm, but they haven't helped the brand to sell much, at least not at the level the xbox360 and wii are selling now.

[Bahamut]

Alright, I was wrong about that, it was a vague memory at best, although I do remember that the PS3 isn't in the top few offenders for the pricing - it is up there though.

[PassivePretentiousness]

1. 3DO, $699, 1993
2. Saturn, $450, 1995

...

care to share anything else worse than PS3?

[Bahamut]

#2 isn't the Saturn - check the charts here: http://curmudgeongamer.com/2006/05/history-of-console-prices-or-500-aint.html

[The Coop]

1. 3DO, $699, 1993
2. Saturn, $450, 1995

...

care to share anything else worse than PS3?

Neo-Geo - $649.99

Of course, that came with a game (Magician Lord), two controllers and a memory card.


Which begs the question... what the hell is up with game companies no longer offering pack-in games with systems when they launch (save for the Wii)? $400-$600 is a lot to pay and not get a damn game (and no, demos don't count).

[JoeFu]

I really do want to own a PS3, but wtf it is expensive. I don't care that it's a blu-ray player and that it is cheap compared to the others, I care that it is a video game system though. I just wish the price wasn't so freaking high.

In the end, PS3 is the most expensive gaming system right now and it pretty much killed my interest because it costs a ton of money.

Anyways, I find it kinda sad that the PS3 is selling lower than the GC was selling in the same time frame in japan. I know bahamut doesn't care about sales, but in the end developers make games for systems that sell well. I wish I was in Japan right now though. The used PS3 there is like 250 dollars.

[Specter]

Well, considering that the biggest barrier to entry in pretty much any market nowadays is price, it's not surprising that the Wii is outselling the PS3 like hotcakes. However, it should be noted that what the PS3 is going through right now is extremely similar to the conditions of the Xbox 360 (which did not sell as well as the PS3 during this period of it's life, by the way). Also, if you took a $400 Xbox 360, spent $100 for a wireless adapter and $120 (I think) for and HD-DVD player, then it would be more expensive then a PS3, and still have less features. So, all in all, I'd say the PS3 is doing just fine.

[Kholdstare]

As far as sales go, if it hasn't been referenced yet...

http://nexgenwars.com/

[PassivePretentiousness]

Neo-Geo - $649.99

Of course, that came with a game (Magician Lord), two controllers and a memory card.


Which begs the question... what the hell is up with game companies no longer offering pack-in games with systems when they launch (save for the Wii)? $400-$600 is a lot to pay and not get a damn game (and no, demos don't count).

Hardware companies used to use killer aps as selling points, but they now have sufficient product differentiation to generally lean on their brand name.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Well, considering that the biggest barrier to entry in pretty much any market nowadays is price, it's not surprising that the Wii is outselling the PS3 like hotcakes. However, it should be noted that what the PS3 is going through right now is extremely similar to the conditions of the Xbox 360 (which did not sell as well as the PS3 during this period of it's life, by the way). Also, if you took a $400 Xbox 360, spent $100 for a wireless adapter and $120 (I think) for and HD-DVD player, then it would be more expensive then a PS3, and still have less features. So, all in all, I'd say the PS3 is doing just fine.

I think you have to factor in how the big named titles for the 360 hasn't even come out and it's comparable to how it's going for the PS3 now when they at least have at least one AAA title in Resistance Fall of Man. Project Gotham and DOA4 were there, but you can only get so many people with a racing and fighting games nowadays.

And I believe the optional add-ons for the 360 is a pretty good deal. Considering the amount of content Xbox Live has, it balanced it out with PS3's thin online support right now. I don't think they'll ever catch up unless they make it a pay service or decide to put a lot more effort (and money) into their online plan.

There is no doubt that both systems are pretty expensive, and naysayers aside, both are selling freakishly well for such expensive consoles.

Hell, I think my baby cousin will get his PS3 anyday now if the system is available on the shelves. I have no idea how people get their money or is willing to spoil their kids. I suppose it's somewhat natural as these consoles are flying off the shelves. The last time I checked, ALL THREE CONSOLES were sold out in the game store I frequent.

[Aninymouse]

Something of note: the Wii doesn't have anything I'd consider "killer app" just yet. Twilight Princess is an A+ game, but it's a retooled Gamecube game. Obviously, a Zelda game built exclusively for the Wii would play and look quite different, I'd imagine. Excite Truck is a blast, but there's not much depth there outside custom soundtracks and multiplayer. Likewise, the myriad of party games out right now are a fantastic way to enjoy the Wii and offer great multiplayer, but there is little room for personal achievement.

To be honest, the Wii is in a similar boat as the PS3 in that both are lacking "killer apps" right now. The difference is that because the Wii is cheaper, people aren't as inclined to make the PS3 investment; I know I'm not.

Metroid, Smash Bros, Mario Galaxy are all slated to be big, beautiful, rewarding experiences, and more artistic games like No More Heros and Sadness will start to carve their own niche. Also, Pokemon. Pokemon is like crack. I should know >_>; Keep in mind, however, that Nintendo's 1st party titles are notoriously delayed. Let us all hope they can buck this trend...

MGS4 and FFXIII are the biggies for PS3 that come to mind. Motorstorm and Tekken 5 are out right now, though, and they're great, deep games. So in that regard, the PS3 might (like last time) begin to hit it's stride before the Wii, with it's biggest first-year games hitting without too many delays.

Those're my thoughts.

[parasoul]

Only chance of me buying a PS3 is if it drops down to $400 someday and even then I doubt it. Until then, I'm glad my housemate bought one so I could play Resistance. Ridge Racer sucks. Next game I'll play is Virtua Fighter 5 since it's on our Gamefly list. Next game after that is a long way off I think. Maybe GTA4?

Oh no, wait...next game after that will be God of War 2...even though it's a PS2 game. Any other good PS2 games coming out?

[The Unsung Plumber]

don't you guys remember nintendos commercials? Multi-Colored Sumos?
Inline Skaters? "get N or get out"? since when did videogame commercials need to make sense.


Don't forget This (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5206257500748953004) one.

[Evilhead]

I wish I was in Japan right now though. The used PS3 there is like 250 dollars.

Yeah, I wish. They are still going full retail or slightly less for used systems.

[JoeFu]

Yeah, I wish. They are still going full retail or slightly less for used systems.
Really?

I saw on some Japanese website/gamestore thingy the ps3 20 gig was like 27k yen or something.

[The Coop]

Neo-Geo - $649.99

Of course, that came with a game (Magician Lord), two controllers and a memory card.


Which begs the question... what the hell is up with game companies no longer offering pack-in games with systems when they launch (save for the Wii)? $400-$600 is a lot to pay and not get a damn game (and no, demos don't count).

Hardware companies used to use killer aps as selling points, but they now have sufficient product differentiation to generally lean on their brand name.

aka

They're determined to suck more money from you right off the bat, and refuse to give you "something for nothing" as it were.

[PassivePretentiousness]

aka

They're determined to suck more money from you right off the bat, and refuse to give you "something for nothing" as it were.

aka

consumer demand increased, and instead of increasing price in real dollars, they got rid of the extras

[Evilhead]

Really?

I saw on some Japanese website/gamestore thingy the ps3 20 gig was like 27k yen or something.


If you had a link, please post it! Auction prices are still pretty high.

[Back_Lit]

I'll be honest...when I saw the topic name I laughed for about 5 minutes.

And in answer to the question, no-one buys the system and it flops.

[JoeFu]

If you had a link, please post it! Auction prices are still pretty high.
Sorry evilhead, I saw it like last month. Maybe I'll look for it again.


Well, I found it evilhead, but the price is back at 34k yen...

It was 27k yen last month.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/only-in-japan/japanese-retailers-used-360s--used-ps3s-233705.php

[atmuh]

what the crap is this thread

kidthunder you are even more of an idiot than i used to think

[Guy In Rubber Suit]

I won't get the PS3 because it's too expensive and there aren't any games that I want thus far. A cheap Blu-Ray player? Well it's competing with HD-DVD so who knows how long that war will last and how long Blu-Ray will be around. I don't want to make some sort of wasted investment. Sony has a bad habit of supporting the wrong technology, or being very strict about it.

So yeah when it's around $200 I might consider it. Otherwise I'd love to get a 360 because there are a lot of games out for it that I want.

[Gruntguy]

People say that the big thing about the PS3 is that it plays Blue-Ray disks.

Are they even that popular yet though? I mean, getting something that has great graphics, great power, AND can play Blue-Ray disks for only 600 bucks is pretty sweet but how many people do you know that actually has blue ray players? I don't know, maybe it's just around here but I don't know anyone that has one, nor have I seen anyone buy one.

[Blake]

How many people do you know have HD-DVD players? It's unfair to play fortune teller as far as these new formats right now.

[The Coop]

aka

consumer demand increased, and instead of increasing price in real dollars, they got rid of the extras

Which brings me back to the notion of "They're stiffing you".

Consumer demand for popular items is always high. The original GameBoy had nigh demand, as did the Genesis, the SNES, the NES, the PS1, the PS2, and other assorted systems. But somewhere along the way, game companies decided to stop including something for you to do. Instead, you're left having to shell out extra cash to actually be able to use your system as something beyond a paper weight.

Remember the 8bit and 16bit eras? Remember how people had a choice of either a system with a pack-in game, or just a core system? Usually the choice with the pack-in cost about $20 or so more, but even that price difference was still less than what you'd pay to get a game off the shelf (and the pack in was usually a good game). You were actually saving money buying the pack-in version. But right about the time the Saturn and PS1 hit, this option vanished, and all you had was the "core" system. Your choices were cut in half, and these days, a system is out for quite a while before it gets a pack-in to try and ramp up sales (and that's assuming it ever gets a pack-in).

All the financial models in the world can't hide the fact that this reads as simply a way for a given console manufacturer to get more cash out of consumer pockets. After all, why give someone a game for half the price that it would normally cost, when you can force them to pay full price? And why take a chance of loosing third party licensing income, when you could force people to buy a game that the console maker gets a sales percentage of?

But to address the consumer demand part again, that's always been a factor in the gaming world. A system maker relied on not just giving you a new system, but also giving you "more for your money" to make their system look more attractive. That usually meant extras in the form of a game, or even several games (anyone remember the 6-in-1 cart for the Genesis?). This went on from the 2600 right up the Neo-Geo and the Sega CD. After that, this sales model vanished, and only seems to resurface when sales have gone stagnant (or at least seem stagnant compared to a couple months earlier). And once the sales are up again, that pack-in or "buy this and get a free game" promotion is discontinued.

Call it whatever financial model you like, but at its core, it's still a cheap way to get more money from the consumer by giving them less, while still charging them a lot of cash. Console makers these days just come off as wanting to suck every last dime form you that they can, without giving you anything extra. Sure, they had the same outlook then too, but they hid it a lot better :wink:

I mean, the Nintendo Wii is the first mainstream system in a long time to actually go back to that old pack-in model, and look how well that concept was received. That says something pretty important to me.

[Evilhead]

If I had to choose between pack in games and a core system I would always pick the core system. Why should I have to shell out extra money, even if it's half the price of a retail game, for something I probably don't even want anyway? I like to choose what game(s) I buy with my new console, rather than being stuck with some game I may or may not want. What if instead of getting a core PS3 for $599 I have to pay $629 for a PS3 with Madden 2007 or Sonic or some other game I don't want? Sure it's cheaper than buying the game by itself, but It's a waste of money to me.

[The Coop]

No one said you'd have to buy the pack-in version, Evilhead, and that's the beauty of it. You had a choice in the 80's and the first half of the 90's whether you just wanted the system, or the system and a game. You don't have that now, and that's been my point.

If I recall, some systems used to debut with a game, and then the core system came later. Now it's reversed, except the pack-in version rarely comes along later... and if it does, it's very short lived.

[Evilhead]

Either way, I don't see how it would impact my choice in buying the system. If they happened to offer a pack-in game I wanted I would buy it, otherwise you could use the same money they are charging you to buy a used game of your choice.

[Bahamut]

So I've been playing Resistance: Fall of Man recently...and the PS3 controller really shows its flaws with this game - the thumbstick locations are just terrible for FPS I think. Also, I've been spoiled with Gears of War, so Resistance really falls short graphics-wise in comparison and rubs off as rushed.

[Soma]

Could it have possibly been Genji?

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/adventure/genji/index.html?q=genji

It was heavenly sword, for anyone who actually hasn't looked at it yet.

[The Coop]

Either way, I don't see how it would impact my choice in buying the system. If they happened to offer a pack-in game I wanted I would buy it, otherwise you could use the same money they are charging you to buy a used game of your choice.

It's not about you, my friend. Nor is it about me. It's about the general populous as a whole, and giving them more than just the bare bones minimum for their money... like they used to do. Sweetening the deal for a little more money is always a good second option to give people, and a game is a great way to do it. It may not be a selling point to you or possibly me, but it'll be one to a lot of folks if the game isn't a polished turd.

Sega, Nintendo, SNK and others did it before with success, so there's no reason for Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo to not do it now. And while I know this is the age of charging people for every last little thing a game/system maker can think of, that doesn't change how bogus the current setup comes across as being when you look back.

[linkspast]

Why are there 2 PS3 threads?

[I-n-j-i-n]

I think pack-ins are an antique idea though. Just because it used to work in the past doesn't mean it'll work now. That used to work because game systems typically had an iconic mascot. Even the Playstation adopted Lara Croft and Crash Bandicoot but then they realized that systems basically sell themselves nowadays.

[Maco70]

The worst that could happen?

They place viral advertisements in Boston.

[The Coop]

I think pack-ins are an antique idea though. Just because it used to work in the past doesn't mean it'll work now. That used to work because game systems typically had an iconic mascot. Even the Playstation adopted Lara Croft and Crash Bandicoot but then they realized that systems basically sell themselves nowadays.

Wouldn't it be nice to at least see them try the idea though? Can't say it won't work if no one even tries it out.

And remember, the GameBoy, Genesis, Master System, NES, Atari 2600/7800/XE/Jaguar, 3DO and Sega CD had no real iconic mascot when they launched, but they all had games with them. You don't need a mascot really. All you need is a good (hear that 3DO?) game :grin:

[Dervish]

I find it ridiculous that people are claiming Sony and the PS3 are on life support or some crap like that. Oh no, the system doesn't have many games! Just ... like ... ANY brand new system in its first 6-9 months! Gasp! The 360 had that problem ... The PS2 had that problem ... The Xbox had that problem ... the DC had that problem ... Oh no! Those systems were all doomed! DOOOOOOOOOOOMED! (well okay, so the DC was, but the rest weren't) Were those companies or systems on "life support" because good titles didn't start rolling in until about 9 months after the system had been released? Idiot.