[Final Update] Sonata for Storm and Windmill

[The Mute]

.mp3:
http://webpages.charter.net/hruff04/song.mp3

Or:
http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=4330928&key=A205B4E6-A

And if that doesn't work for whatever reason:
http://www.soundclick.com/themute

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After a two year hiatus, except being the occasional fly on the wall, I've decided to post something new. Woo. :roll:

Alright, first off, this isn't exactly a sonata. (I was strapped for a title at the time so I grabbed the first music-related word in my head. Suggestions welcome.) It is, however, a piano piece of sorts with some bass and lame choir sounding stuff thrown in.

The song is from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, namely, the Windmill Hut theme/Song of Storms. And let me say, I apologize for my bad timing. I've seen this same song used about three times in the last handful of posts. Purely coincidental, I assure you. In fact, I tried to wait for some of those to get buried before I did this. Ya can't win sometimes. :lol:

I'll be honest, I'm not very much inclined to change anything at this point. I just want some straight opinions to mull over.

Thanks guys, and it's good to be back BTW. :wink:

[kamoh]

Production level = A+...sounds totally live.

Listening through, I can't find any production or composition errors whatsoever.
I am worried, however, that it might not be an original enough composition (but I doubt that highly).

When the low bass notes (i.e. James Bond bassline) come in, you may consider different note choice (the 2nd and 4th of each phrase do not sound in place and are forced to resolve at 3rd and 5th).

The dissonance of the countermelody starting at 3:50 or so is fantastic.

---

Honestly, I have no constructive criticism that I think should keep you from submitting this. While it might not get OCR'ed because of what it is (a piano mix), it's a fantastic example of the genre.

Great work. Submit.

[ocremixfan]

:!: :!: :!: awesome :!: :!: :!:
I was listening and thought that it was going to be calm and almost "boring" all the way through... until the rises at 3:10, 3:38 and 4:10! wow! it really got my attention! the thunder by the ending... perfect!
I listen only to mixes from games that I've played, and I never played zelda... but the title of this one forced me to listen to it... and I'm grateful! :D
you really have a superb mix in here!

do what you think it's needed! I cannot help you at all to make it better!

btw, just one thing: can you give an alternate link? anyone that does not require an account to download... ;)

[The Mute]

Thanks to both of you! I posted this in another far less reputable Zelda forum to get some responses and they didn't seem to have anything to offer up. So I appreciate your suggestions and any that are to come.

btw, just one thing: can you give an alternate link? anyone that does not require an account to download... ;)

You know what? I'm a lamer because I forgot I can totally do that... which is probably what I should have done in the first place. :lol: Oops, eh?

Here we go:
http://webpages.charter.net/hruff04/song.mp3

[SSB]

I like the way it sounds, but it's FAR too repetitive throughout the first half and takes far too long to build. Needs more variation, more harmony, less of the same but repeating so much.

I would like to know what choir sound you used there, though, if you wouldn't mind sharing.

[Robotaki]

It sounds like a regualr Choir Ahh sf2 with the 5khz - 8khz range turned down. Pretty neat arrangement. I have to agree it does get repetitive, but I'm a sucker for soft ambience so...yeah, I dig!

[The Mute]

Firstly, I'll say that the choir .sf2 I used was just something I found on the net. Where that was is beyond me. Although I suppose I could share a copy if anyone so wished. I'm not sure how large it is. I'd have to look. :?

I like the way it sounds, but it's FAR too repetitive throughout the first half and takes far too long to build.

Have you ever watched a storm move in? Personally, that's the feeling I had which dictated the length, then the sudden build to climax and finally the petering out toward the end. But I can see where you're coming from. Thanks. :wink:

Needs more variation, more harmony, less of the same but repeating so much.

I think the repetition is deceptive, especially when considering the original. Harmony isn't exactly implied by a storm. I actually wanted a bit of 'cohesive chaos', if that makes any sense.

I have to agree it does get repetitive, but I'm a sucker for soft ambience so...yeah, I dig!

Thank ya. :D I was aiming for a sort of ambience when I first envisioned this. Glad to see I must have retained at least some of that feeling from the first few versions.

[Xuande]

Nah, the introduction is fantastic :) It feels like it should be slow, and it's a lovely ambient start, rolling into the rest of the song. This is good stuff, and I can't find any flaws in it at all.

You ever thought about having a striking piano take on the Bolero of Fire? ;)

[ocremixfan]

I also thought about the slow beginning, but if it gets sped up, it will lose all this "storm progression" feeling... so I don't even mentioned! ;)

oh! a little suggestion: raise the master volume of your mix! I have to raise my system volume to be able to hear your mix properly... and later I throw away my phones as the next mix starts, punching my ears! :lol: Adjust it according to the other OCR mixes! ;)

[electric concerto]

Yes master volumn needs to come up a bit...

Oh boy... where to start...

First off, kudos for a very beautiful remix, with all the real sounding instruments!

What was all this talk about repeatitivity? SoS is a whole 23 notes, Mute used 100s. The sound may have SOUNDED repeatitive, but technically was most definently not...

It is manipulative, though... For a while I kept looking out the window... Lets just say that's some real sounding rain!

Damn, where have the minutes gone? for a song EXACTLY 5 minutes long, I enjoyed it a lot!

.... but they are right about needing VARIATIONS of the original... a little SoS, a little original... try some variation, it does a body good!

[The Mute]

Yeah, I know about the volume thing. It always does that for some reason even though I swear I've got everything turned up. :| Meh. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try again... or run it through another program to amplify it somehow. Having the next song blare in my ears is a real hassle for me too. So I'm very sorry for assaulting your eardrums! :lol:

You ever thought about having a striking piano take on the Bolero of Fire? ;)

You know, it's funny because I was trying to tie that theme and some others into this piece. Then I realized I was straying from my original ideas. But maybe as another piece later on, I could try it. 8)

First off, kudos for a very beautiful remix, with all the real sounding instruments!

And I looked so very hard for that damn piano! :lol:

What was all this talk about repeatitivity? SoS is a whole 23 notes, Mute used 100s. The sound may have SOUNDED repeatitive, but technically was most definently not...

Didn't I say that? :wink:

.... but they are right about needing VARIATIONS of the original... a little SoS, a little original... try some variation, it does a body good!

I know you all keep saying this, but what constitutes a true variation? That whole little melody running in the background was completely my idea as was the bass line, 1:12 to about 3:10 is aaall miiine. Granted, everything is based pretty strongly on the original, but it is different. Then, I take all that and tie it back together with the Song of Storms at the end with some little embellishments here and there. You're killin' me smalls! :roll:

Maybe the better question to ask would be, what would you like to hear? :|

[ocremixfan]

I like to hear what I'm currently listening on your remix! :D
You know, I never heard the original theme, but tune arrangements usually sound better when used throughout the song, not simply as a custom melody carelessly inserted inside the original one... I'm not saying that it's your case, I also can't know that! :P It's because you said that 1:12-3:10 is aaaaallll yooooooouuuurs, but if you did as I said above, maybe you should pour the original tune around...
Maybe it's confusing but it's the best I could do to explain!
You did this kickass mix all by yourself until now! You sure know how to progress with it! ;)

[The Mute]

I suppose. *sigh*

I did say I wasn't going to change anything really, and truth be told, I love it the way it is. But then I have the habit of being biased because of myself. :lol: AH!

I dunno. Maybe I'm just too much of a purist to fiddle with the notes... like it was sacreligious or something. :roll:

[The Mute]

The volume issue should be solved now. Maybe. I couldn't bump it up any louder without losing quality. And I doubt it's my speakers... they're brand new. :?

[ocremixfan]

The volume is OK now! thanks! Now I can add it to my OCR playlist safely! :lol:

[The Mute]

Yeah but, can't you hear that nasty static when things start to culminate? :( I haven't been able to work on it today, but I'm going to keep trying to eliminate that.

It bugs me to no end!

EDIT: Does anybody else think I should turn the volume down on the rain? It seems too loud toward the beginning.

[sakuradropz]

hmm i really like this haha.

[cobaltstarfire]

Rain doesn't seem that loud to me, and I can't hear any static...or if I do, I'm mixing it up with the torrents of rain.

Very fun listen though, I think it could make it.

I think one thing that might be nice is haveing the song start sooner. That 10 seconds of silence at the beggining kindof bugs me.

[ocremixfan]

The rain volume is nice, and also no static (my phones suck, but anyway...)

you see... many people said that loved your mix, you like the way it is, and you haven't received major quality complains about it... maybe you should submit this beauty! let the judges do their nothing-but-awesome-can-please-us job. if it gets NO'ed, you'll have some nice tips to work over! ;)

[lowaim]

Greats stuffs! I really like this :)

[The Mute]

Again, I must thank you all! :D I'm glad so many liked this. It's more than I expected, heh heh. I wish all my songs could go over this well! 8)

But I can still hear the damn static! GAH! (I really don't think it's my speakers, they're brand new! :banghead: )

And thanks for the votes of confidence, but I really don't feel I could take submitting this. :lol: The judges are cool n'all, but I don't think even one YES is in my future. You'd think as an artist I could take criticism... hm...

[Pseudodragon]

This is a very pleasant piece to listen to. It sounds like more instruments could be added, but alone it sounds very awesome.

If you haven't submitted this yet, I don't know what's stopping you.

[Pink Mintaka]

First off, I would just like to say I absolutely love this. The Song of Storms is one of my fav video game songs ever. And I think you pull it off oh so nice in this mix.

Second, submit it! I don't see what's really stopping you. The only bad that thing that can happen is it gets rejected and you get advice on how to make it more OCR material. Which isn't all that bad >_>.

And if you do decide to submit it, I wish you much luck! :)


EDIT: And as far as static goes, I don't hear anything of the like.

[SamuraiFoochs #Reload]

No static here. Lord almighty this mix is delicious. I'd submit it, personally.

[The Mute]

It's funny really...

I listen to the mix on my speakers, everything sounds fine except for one tiny spot around 3:38. If I could fix that one little note, I think I'd be happy.

On my headphones, however, it sounds like I'm listening to the music through a wall. The headphones are about $20, so not exactly run of the mill but also not super high-quality.

$5 earbuds seem to have the opposite effect. Too much treble goin' on, but the overall sound clarity is awesome. I can hear the bad spot at 3:38 here too.
---------------------------------------------------

As for adding other instruments, I had considered using some strings. Unfortunately there are no realistic sounding samples for strings... or at least none that I've happened upon. Fake strings assault my precious eardrums. :wink:

Again, submitting this isn't my plan because I know I'll be told that there isn't enough going on, that it's too repetitive, my levels are off, etc. (Didn't you know I'm omniscient?) :lol: Thanks and all, but I must decline.

[SamuraiFoochs #Reload]

Well, I almost hope you update this but make any new version a seperate file, so that we can all enjoy both versions, because like I said, delicious.

[Pink Mintaka]

Well, if your thinking about adding some more instruments, perhaps you could add a flute, or a clarinet. Something along the lines of a Woodwind instrument. I've taken a clarinet sample while listening to your song and messed around with that, and I gotta tell you, I got some pretty slick sounding stuff going on.

[ocremixfan]

I heard your "damned spot" some times... my earphones here at home are not perfect, but quite good... and I must say that I can notice no static.
And even if there's something, it seems to be very hard to notice... don't you think you're delaying this for a quite insignificant half second that no one can hear, except for you? :P
If you have some modification suggestions to try, do it and forget about this "hidden static". Put your time on some upgrades...
If you don't know anything to do on it, submit it! Saying that you couldn't even get a single 'yes' it's quite hard on yourself!

Oh! And about being repetitive... the original tune is almost like a ringtone! You raised it up to a new level! No need to worry about that!

[Garde]

I think the static you're referring to has something to do with the rain effects. When the rain is loud, I can definitely hear what sounds like static. I think it's probably from the rain effect. When the rain is loud, I think the rest of the rain (the stuff that doesn't sound like it's landing nearby) can cause a somewhat staticky sound.

The thunder at the very end sounds almost like it's clipping. It's not as crisp and smooth as real thunder, but that could very well be just because it's not the real thing and recordings (especially free soundfonts and the like) are generally not that high quality when it comes to real sounding.

I've got my volume turned up fairly high and my studio headphones on. The thunder sounds like there might be minor clipping occuring at that point. If you take a look at the output levels when the thunder clap occurs, check to see if it's a danger zone for clipping. The instruments are quite clear, but when the rain dies out, I can hear a very slight static underlying the entire mix. It's actually so quiet that I'm tempted to believe you have had a very quiet rain effect going on the entire time underneath the louder one. When the rain starts to come back, it definitely sounds a bit more staticky.

I've turned the volume up quite loud, and I must say that it was a quiet rain effect I was hearing. I also think as rain effects get quieter, they tend to sound more like static as the sounds become less distinguishable.

Hmmm, at 3:37-8, there is possibly some very minor clipping, but it's not that noticeable.

As for the mix itself, I really like the feel of it. I'm a sucker for ambient mixes, and I like your take on the Song of Storms. I think it's arranged quite liberally in comparison to the original piece (and it sounds good).

I'm also a huge sucker for slow mixes that build up over minutes of a song. I really like how in the end, the rain comes back and starts to pour pretty heavily and climaxes with the thunder crash.

But damn, that thunder sounds pretty bad...

Anyway, great work on the mix! :)

[The Mute]

The clipping that you're refering to is probably what I'm trying to say. :? The way the mix was originally was just fine but it was too quiet. I need a way to turn up the volume without losing the quality of sound. :cry: I do have a few tricks left to try. Suggestions welcome.

I'm perfectly happy with the background noise. That doesn't bother me at all because I don't notice it unless I'm purposely listening for it. I should hope that the piano drowns out the rain enough... which is why I've asked before if the rain was too loud. I do plan to turn it down just a touch anyway.

I'm a little short on free time these days, so any changes I make will take awhile. I apologize for that. It's sort of a tease when people make a WIP you really like and then they just sit on it forever. I know that bugs me personally. :lol: But when I do get a chance, I do plan to add just a few tiny tiny changes here and there. I decided no additional instruments were needed. This began as a piano piece and I'd like to keep it that way.

[Garde]

You can use a compressor on the thunder sound and put the threshold to something around -30dB and that should probably take care of the clipping.

The only thing that will lose quality will be the thunder crash, and the only thing that will change about is that the lowest and highest frequencies will be closer (basically the higher frequencies will be shoved down a few notches, but they will still be played).

I hope that'll help ya! :)

[The Mute]

Thanks for the input. I'll try that. :wink:

But not right now. Grammar test tomorrow, ya know. :cry:

[The Mute]

Tried the compressor suggestion, and I hated the results no matter what I did. :(

But it doesn't really matter because I found what's really causing that infernal noise I keep ranting about! It's because of the choir soundfont I used. Once that is eliminated, everything sounds just fine.

So now the question is... do I try to fix that part of it, or just replace it with another instrument? I can't think of much besides human voices that can hold that one 15-second long note and get away with it. :P

[M0g]

I've always kept a watch over these boards, but with what posts I do write, I try to put into words how I feel about a piece of work (despite my lack of expertise on actually creating a piece). Basically, without overdoing it, I think this is a comforting piece and creates quite the tranquil mindset I personally am seeking in a song. I plan on falling asleep to this song tonight, so thanks for the wonderful piece, and keep up the good work!! :wink:

[quine]

Personally, I think the choir is a bit too overwhelming. I'm listening through my headphones, and it actually makes me wince, especially in my left ear.

[The Mute]

As far as I know, the final changes to this piece have been made.

Something that didn't come up during this process was my feelings about the second theme variation. I couldn't help but hear that it had a slightly mechanical feel to it. So what I did is bring back a couple things that didn't make it into the original version I posted. They were just little variances from several live recordings I'd done while trying to decide about the arrangement. Some may call the changes I made gimmicky, but I like them. So deal with it. :wink:

The 'choir' issue was also dealt with. I grabbed a different soundfont that sounded almost exactly the same and for some reason, that cleared up the problem. Again, I kept the choir sounds simply because no other instrument was working there. I tried everything and nothing was doing what I needed it to.

Again, no new instruments were added. They just weren't cutting it for me. I wanted to stay true to my original concept.

The volume should be less of an issue now, but the piece is still rather quiet. It *IS* a piano piece, after all. Nobody in their right mind blares piano music. And most recordings that I've encountered of such music does tend to be quiet. *shrugs* I did what I thought was best.

No, I didn't cut the beginning. It's meant to set the mood and 10 seconds is nothing compared to a techno song's minute+ long intro. So yeah... there ya go.

I hope I didn't forget to mention anything.

Anyway... if you want to keep this song, you better go grab it now. Within the next month or two, I plan on reclaiming the webspace I used to host this. But you'll always be able to find a copy on my Soundclick page.

Thank you for all your input. I want to start on another project now. It's of the Song of Healing and I began it about three years ago. So I guess I'll see you all when it's mostly finished. :wink:

[ocremixfan]

*ressurecting thread from ashes*

Hello again everybody!

I wanted to hear some news from Mute... so long time since the last post, so many times I've heard this remix...
Have you stubmitted this? I've never seen it on 'to be judged' topic, and I don't think you are thinking of new updates, given what you've posted here! hehe
It have been more than six months already! Send us a signal! =P

[The Mute]

I wanted to hear some news from Mute... Send us a signal! =P

Well, okay. I'll bite.

I don't have as much time to devote to this stuff as I used to. :'( I try to check in every once and awhile, see who's doing what nowadays, but I've been busy fulfilling my academic duty! :) (Now officially a Graphic Design major with a Creative Writing minor. Yay!)

Anywho, you know what happens when you put something aside for awhile and then come back to it? You can hack the crap out of it, that's what! :D Take a look at it with fresh eyes (or in this case, fresh ears.) As far as updates, I'll have to wait for summer vacation, which will be at the end of my 6-week summer session in July. (I've even got a bunch of new material that might show up too.) I've been keeping a list of things to change with this piece the next time I get a few editing hours to play around with.

No, I haven't submitted it. I keep thinking about it, but I end up chickening out, 'cause that's what I do best! ^^ Maybe I'll try it when I stop cringing at my own work. [lol]

So yeah, that's about where it stands. No worries. The song is still alive and well. 8)

[electric concerto]

Good. Because I really enjoy this song.