Final Fantasy XII

[Dyne]

I didn't see this thread created, so, I figured I'd put one together. Final Fantasy XII has been out for a few days now, and I wanted to get an initial reaction from everyone who's played it.

Good, bad and otherwise, I'd like to hear your opinions. I'm sure there's a lot of people who want to buy the game as well, that could stand for some opinions on it.

So let fly the opinions.


I picked up my copy of FFXII Collector's Edition yesterday, it comes with a bonus DVD with all kinds of goodies on it including an Art Gallery. Of course, you can get the artwork in the special edition of the Brady Games strategy guide, as it comes in book form as well. It's $29.95 USD at GameStop around my way, so it may be worth it if you're into the art of FF.

So far, playing the game has been a lot of fun. In game sequences are nice, the FMV scenes in full CGI are awesome. And...of course, the music. So far, I've only heard a few of the pieces in the game just from playing, and so far I like what I hear. So I'm planning on getting my hands on the soundtrack at some point.

Now that you know how I feel, what do the rest of you think about this game? Is it the best one yet? Does it replace FFVII at the top of the food chain, or is it another sequel in a long line of games? (And for those FFX/FFX-2 haters out there, did you think it was superior?)

[UnforgivingEdges]

Best Final Fantasy since Final Fantasy Tactics (same scenarist, too) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasumi_Matsuno). I am enjoying it immensely; the new gameplay design is a gret breath of fresh air for the RPG genre.

This game is great so far, and it has renewed my faith in Square Enix.

EDIT- A formal request for the use of spoiler tags where appropriate in this thread.

[I-n-j-i-n]

lol. FFT is semi-canon. It's the same as any non numbered Final Fantasy. More like a spinoff series than anything.


Overall, FFXII is probably the best FF game since FF6 and FF7 as far as I'm concerned (though I still had a lot of fun playing FF8, FF9 and even FFX/FFX-2).

The game play is really great in FFXII in that you can control a lot of the smallest actions that go on in real time and often, you can just sit back and manage your team instead of slaving over every little action. Though the traditional RPG system isn't bad in itself, I think the change is well done.

The production values with the presentation, the music, character models, menu, animation and even the English voice acting is really top notch and there's few things to complain there.

My biggest super giant complaint (sarcasm) with FFXII is the story, which just palpably seems to play it safe with a very straightforward story. I'm on my 20th hour or so now, ignoring most miniquests until I'm near the end of the game and nothing about the plot is really up for discussion since there is little if no ambiguity about it. And you know those caricatures of characters in most modern Final Fantasies where the unique quirks of the characters singlehandedly made the games bearable to play? (looking at FF8 and FFX) I sort of miss those types of avant garde characters that made Final Fantasy games stand out in the RPG crowd. Not that the characters in FFXII are bad in any means, but they just don't stand out for themselves amongst the crowd. The story and characters, again, aren't bad. Just.... average if a bit uninspired.

For a game that makes me miss Sakaguchi's pacing and Uematsu's melodic themes, FFXII is a really nice and possibly huge step forward. If anything, the game play sets it apart.

[Tsuribachi]

I shall buy FFXII tomorrow!

[Dyne]

Best Final Fantasy since Final Fantasy Tactics (same scenarist, too) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasumi_Matsuno). I am enjoying it immensely; the new gameplay design is a gret breath of fresh air for the RPG genre.

This game is great so far, and it has renewed my faith in Square Enix.

EDIT- A formal request for the use of spoiler tags where appropriate in this thread.

Request granted.

[atmuh]

I've been really busy with school so I have only played for about 5 hours thusfar. So far it has fulfilled my expectations, though.

[Gollgagh]

So...

what's wrong with this thread? (http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=94424)

[Monday]

I need to go play it.
Brb lol

[razor's edge]

Best Final Fantasy since Final Fantasy Tactics

Agreed.

lol. FFT is semi-canon. It's the same as any non numbered Final Fantasy. More like a spinoff series than anything.

I don't exactly understand what you mean by 'canon' in this case. The majority of FF games take place in what seems like completely separate worlds than one another. I would understand if they were all linked by something more than chocobos, moogles, and Cids, but that isn't the case. Even FFXII is in it's own separate world; it's not quite FFT or FFTA's worlds. Even though they're all called Ivalice, they all have their differences.

Anyway, back to my point-- the FFs are all separate games(with the exception of X-2), and so calling one of the games 'semi-canon' is really quite pointless.

[Antelucan]

I'm considering getting a PS2 this Christmas just to play all the great PS2 RPGs I missed in the last console generation.

But mostly this game.

[The Xyco]

I have yet to play the game, but I can already tell it's going to be a gigantic allegory to the original Star Wars.

[Saundra]

So...

what's wrong with this thread? (http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=94424)
doesn't have word "official" in title

[Hellcom]

So...

what's wrong with this thread? (http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=94424)
doesn't have word "official" in title

And is almost completely irrelevant as its initial topic was about Fire Cross.

[CE]

Tell me all the wrong points in this video review:

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1684

It's the first video. Is the game this unbalanced?

[Hellcom]

Tell me all the wrong points in this video review:

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1684

It's the first video. Is the game this unbalanced?

I haven't played it yet, but that review does seem quite strong to the point that it is almost an attack on the game. He made the game sound like a complete pile of crap; overextended, disappointing story with two dimensional characters and poor repetitive gameplay. The opposite of what every other reviewer says. Nevertheless, if you go to gameranking you find only one reviewer goes below the 90% mark.

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/459841.asp

[UnforgivingEdges]

I don't exactly understand what you mean by 'canon' in this case. The majority of FF games take place in what seems like completely separate worlds than one another. I would understand if they were all linked by something more than chocobos, moogles, and Cids, but that isn't the case. Even FFXII is in it's own separate world; it's not quite FFT or FFTA's worlds. Even though they're all called Ivalice, they all have their differences.

Matsuno loves injecting phantoms of continuity into his works. He did it with the Ogre Battle games, and he did it again with FFT, FFTA, and FF12. Also, if you've played Vagrant Story, FF12 contains some mild references to that game as well, and it's not even a Final Fantasy title.

[razor's edge]

I don't exactly understand what you mean by 'canon' in this case. The majority of FF games take place in what seems like completely separate worlds than one another. I would understand if they were all linked by something more than chocobos, moogles, and Cids, but that isn't the case. Even FFXII is in it's own separate world; it's not quite FFT or FFTA's worlds. Even though they're all called Ivalice, they all have their differences.

Matsuno loves injecting phantoms of continuity into his works. He did it with the Ogre Battle games, and he did it again with FFT, FFTA, and FF12. Also, if you've played Vagrant Story, FF12 contains some mild references to that game as well, and it's not even a Final Fantasy title.

Oh, I know that. I just meant that, considering that each FF game is a different world, it's pretty pointless to call one of the games 'semi-canon' just because it has 'Tactics' at the end of the name instead of a number.

[Kiyosuki]

I haven't posted here in a while, but here's what I thought of this game.

I also think its one of the best FF's in years. I really haven't had this much fun playing a story driven RPG in a really long time. Here's a copy/paste from another review I wrote.

It has its flaws, and there's room for improvement is Square or some other studio ever decided to take cues from this game or continue its trend, but regardless its a huge step in the right direction I think. For a series as steeped in tradition as FF is, it makes that step in difference even more apparent.

This games' made something very apparent to me, the traditional RPG style we've all come to know up until now has become really archaic. I mean...we all know RPG's have been sort of stuck in this kind of rut after a point but this game made it even more apparent but not in a bad way. Its true that many of the innovations in the gameplay obviously have some influence from MMORPG's, but the fact its a traditional 1 player RPG as well as the fact there's many other things as well that were thrown in to help make it a refreshing experience make that not an issue at all. If anything, it almost seems odd it took so long for a studio to take some kind of cue from an MMO's system. But the influences are really only skin deep, it still feels very different to me.

I think the best thing about the combat system is that it really helps to immerse you in FFXII's world in a way that the traditional way of changing everything to go to a combat screen or mode while not completely losing RPG gameplay. Especially when it comes to strategy and running from enemies, it makes it a lot more tense and exciting. I don't think I could go back to FF's old battle system after this.

More than anything though, to me what I've enjoyed the most is the feel and the story. Its been a really long time since an RPG made me want to get out into the world it presented and have an adventure, see whats out there...and whats in store for you're character. None of the characters hogged the spotlight too much, they were all written pretty well, the story was epic and fun, and the feel was just...so much of a journey. It may have had futuristic technology in it but it felt more like an awsome fantasy story for you to experience than any of the recent FF's or recent RPG's have for me. Just a lot of fun, I felt great after finishing it.

Some other stuff.

+Voice acting was shockingly good. I played the Japanese version with a friend to try it out, and I think I actually prefer the english voice acting. Its just so much more fitting to the feel. Especially for characters like Balthier, Basch, Vossler, and Ashe. They all had a great range of emotion and never overacted, and the huge variety in accents and dialects with all the races and characters really helped to make the world feel alive. I think its one of the best VA jobs in gaming in recent years. Particular props for Fran's exotic, Brazillian but not quite accent. And Vaan's adolescent, but not annoying or whiny voice. It was one of the most natural sounding young person voices I've heard in a while, and the fact he was so chill a character made it a god send. Especially compared to Tidus...
-The only problem though is some of the sound quality of the voices sounds a bit muffled in parts.
+The huge world, especially the cities, really made the game exciting and immersive. Cities actually felt like cities with enormous areas and a huge amount of NPC's all doing various things. The culture and backstory of the world was also great. Anything that takes place in Ivalice seems to be great.
+Combat system as I explained above, is a great breath of fresh air. The gambits are a stroke of genius and the ability board is pretty fun to play around with. Great variety of weapons and combinations and all magic is useful.
-I think the system would of benefitted from being a little more interactive when it comes to attacking and maybe dodging. The gambit's can sometimes be a little too effective to the point you don't have to do that much. I think if they put you in the action a little more with a little more required input it would of made it even better. How many times also did you come to a roadblock that you thought "Why can't Vaan/etc just jump over it? lol". Stuff like that, it felt like more input would of been welcome.
-Characters still have a little problem with distinction. Theres stats yes, and you don't have to build everyone to be the same but a little more distinction I think would of been nice.
-I still don't know why there's not a single Bangaa, Moogle, Seeq, or something in you're party. Its not a huge deal I admit, but in such a varied and beautifully rich world it just seems like such a waste to have a party of nothing but Hume's and the token sexy non-human girl...in this case a Viera. Especially considering how awsome some of the other race NPC's look. Shame really.
+Music is generally very pretty. It has a cool sweeping orchestrated feel with an exotic touch to it. I personally like the lack of an established battle theme to be played over and over.
+Story is a very nice change of pace for this series, and RPG's in general. Real adventurous and epic, with a good share of dramatic moments and moments for just plain fun. Characters are generally well written.
-The story sort of slows down a bit in the middle however, maybe a bit unecessarilly. It picks up again but I can't help but feel like maybe there was more that could of been thrown in story wise.
+Locations and visuals are of course stunning. The design of the area's and levels though I have to say is particularly well done.

All and all I think this is really the direction this series and many other RPG's should head. I don't mean copying the game exactly...but just a movement to slowly letting go of some really archaic RPG traditions that quite franky need to be put to rest. Whether FF does continue down this path, or sadly go back to the way it was before though one thing's for sure, this game was a blast itself.

[Xerol Oplan]

I don't exactly understand what you mean by 'canon' in this case. The majority of FF games take place in what seems like completely separate worlds than one another. I would understand if they were all linked by something more than chocobos, moogles, and Cids, but that isn't the case. Even FFXII is in it's own separate world; it's not quite FFT or FFTA's worlds. Even though they're all called Ivalice, they all have their differences.

Matsuno loves injecting phantoms of continuity into his works. He did it with the Ogre Battle games, and he did it again with FFT, FFTA, and FF12. Also, if you've played Vagrant Story, FF12 contains some mild references to that game as well, and it's not even a Final Fantasy title.

Oh, I know that. I just meant that, considering that each FF game is a different world, it's pretty pointless to call one of the games 'semi-canon' just because it has 'Tactics' at the end of the name instead of a number.

From what I understand, there's a loose chronology going on here - FFXII comes first, then several centuries later there's FFT, and then waaaaay after that is FFTA.

I got the game last night and played 14 hours straight, although there's only 11 hours on the game timer due to some early misfortunes.

I think the best thing about the gameplay is that it takes the grind out of grind-levelling, while still letting you have complete control when it counts.

My biggest beef is the camera - when you're indoors, if you so much as touch a wall, it zooms in on your crotch/ass (depending on which way you're facing). Extremely annoying when trying to navigate tight spaces. Some sort of camera lock would be handy here (maybe use the same key as Target Lock in battle (it's either L1 or L2, but I don't remember because I never used it) since it's not being used in exploration mode).

The other issue I have is with the graphics - while it's high-detail and polished, there's many tiny little bugs that most people probably wouldn't notice (some tearing here and there) and the lack of antialiasing is getting on my nerves at some points. I've also had the audio go glitchy on me a few times during heated battles (when many SFX are playing at once).

[Bahamut]

So how's the music anyone? I have the game in front of me (couldn't resist when I saw it for $38), but my PS2 isn't here atm.

[Xerol Oplan]

The PSF (http://www.noderunner.net/~llin/psf/packs/FFXII_psf2.rar) (68MB) has been out for ages, and I listened to it until I got tired of it. It's a whole different experience listening to it in-game though. To me, its main appeal and drawback is that the whole thing sounds _the same_. It's nice because it all meshes together real well (especially in-game) but there really isn't too much variation on the overall 'feel' of it, and while there's 120-some tracks, about 60 of them are variations on each other, so by about the halfway point it just starts to feel "same-y".

[I-n-j-i-n]

So how's the music anyone? I have the game in front of me (couldn't resist when I saw it for $38), but my PS2 isn't here atm.

The music is great, but not nearly as melodic as it was for something like FFT. It's somewhat similar to Vagrant Story's music with a lot more ambiance than melody.


As for the connections between FFT, Vagrant Story, FFTA and FFXII, I think such connections are superficial at best. FFTA is obviously based on the real world but with the magical book that has a fictional world of Ivalice in it. That obviously can't possibly directly correlate to FFXII's self sustaining world.

[linkspast]

So how's the music anyone? I have the game in front of me (couldn't resist when I saw it for $38), but my PS2 isn't here atm.

$3 How?

[kamoh]

So how's the music anyone? I have the game in front of me (couldn't resist when I saw it for $38), but my PS2 isn't here atm.

$3 How?

lol.

$38.

[speculative]

Considering the reviews this game has received, I've heard some pretty mixed things about the story itself. I'm wondering if this is a matter of taste?

For example, I'm alternately hearing people say that the story is horrible, while others say it's the best rpg story on PS2 out of all PS2 rpg's, which is quite a claim.

The reviews seem consistent, but what people are posting on various boards on teh intarwebs seems to vary widely...

[sephfire]

Anyone who would say the story is "horrible" can't be trusted to review stories, period. Whether it is a story that fits their tastes or not is a more relevant debate. Personally, I think it's a nice change from the exhausted "teen crew saving the world from god-like madman" plot. I've enjoyed that plotline through many a FF game, but it's high time the formula was reworked.

[Xerol Oplan]

Anyone who would say the story is "horrible" can't be trusted to review stories, period. Whether it is a story that fits their tastes or not is a more relevant debate. Personally, I think it's a nice change from the exhausted "teen crew saving the world from god-like madman" plot. I've enjoyed that plotline through many a FF game, but it's high time the formula was reworked.

The main character really doesn't have much of a role in the story yet (I'm just past getting the first esper) and he just doesn't seem to fit in - every time the other characters are making speeches, he's just standing there, and doesn't really contribute much. This probably picks up later on but for now he doesn't even have a good reason to be tagging along.

[The Phalanx]

From what I understand, there's a loose chronology going on here - FFXII comes first, then several centuries later there's FFT, and then waaaaay after that is FFTA.

I can imagine FFT coming first, but not inbetween them. Personally, I consider FFT and FFTA/FF12 to be different universes altogether.

What connects FF12 to FFTA is, mainly, Monteblanc. He exists in both games, after all, and looks pretty much the same. Either moogles live a long time or he's just an ancestor to the FFTA one is debatable.

As for the connections between FFT, Vagrant Story, FFTA and FFXII, I think such connections are superficial at best. FFTA is obviously based on the real world but with the magical book that has a fictional world of Ivalice in it. That obviously can't possibly directly correlate to FFXII's self sustaining world.

My guess is that the world of FF12 was laid down in a book and, over time and space, began to pick up a sort of 'real dream' aspect to it. Like an artifact in D&D.

My brother got FF12 on Halloween, and I've been watching him play it on and off. Just from observation my mind has been changed by it, and I find it to be a fantastic game. The turning away from the previous ATB system was just NEEDED, and the Gambit system doesn't just sit there and play it for you like some may think.

...but am I the only one who thinks, with a bit of tweaking, it could have benefited from a two-player mode? I kinda like having my RPG's two-player, being one reason why a friend and I played the shit outta Legend of Mana, and I can fully imagine FF12 doing the same.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Yeah, there's absolutely no reason why there shouldn't be a sort of a two player mode. Other RPGs has done it years ago to great effect.

And I'm not sure that the ATB battle system was the bad part. It was certainly the annoying random battles that was.

I don't see why they can't incorporate a somewhat traditional ATB system with real time encounters just the same. And as great as FFXII's system is, it could still use a lot of tweaking. They may as well have called it "RPG Battle Manager 2006".

[sephfire]

The main character really doesn't have much of a role in the story yet (I'm just past getting the first esper) and he just doesn't seem to fit in - every time the other characters are making speeches, he's just standing there, and doesn't really contribute much. This probably picks up later on but for now he doesn't even have a good reason to be tagging along.

I dunno, I've kinda liked how there doesn't seem to actually be a single "main" character so far. But I imagine his side of the story will develop more later on.

[Psychonaut]

-The only problem though is some of the sound quality of the voices sounds a bit muffled in parts.

Well if they'd take off those goddamn iron helmets...

[Audity]

I hope those weren't the muffled voice actors he was talking about :|

It's generally good. There are plenty of reviews so I won't go into that. But there are some minor things that frustrated me quite a bit, which I never see anyone mention:

--they should have made the faces a different color depending on whether or not you already talked to that NPC before. As it is now there's just too many people to talk to, and half the time you're going to be talking to the same person twice. Maybe I should have stopped at the first sentence since I think it would have been the best idea ever.

--there should have been a way to organize the order of the faces in the menu, and who appears on the top of the battle screen. Once again, another very great thing they left out.

--there is no way to tell ALL of the stats of equipment in shops. All it tells you is what the magic resistance and defense is.

--the on-screen map is way too zoomed in. There should have been a way to zoom out without having to hit select. The L1 and L2 (and L3) buttons aren't even used.

--I feel ashamed to even have to type this one: L and R don't do anything while in a menu. This means if you're trying to scroll through a large list you have to hold up or down for way longer than necessary.

--there should have been more monsters or a hard mode (this would have added only about 5 trillion times to the gameplay). Half the time you're fighting the same thing(s) over and over again. There's a general sense of dullary throughout the entire game actually. However, a decent argument for that is that it's pretty true to life in that sense. No unnatural bright color happy happy. Oh well. I can't complain about two polar opposites at once.

--scenes that don't have the bottom letterbox (for subtitles if you have those on) CAN'T be skipped. Like going down an elevator type thing, or switching those things in the sewers on and off. It's completely pointless to have to keep viewing those things.

ally: any -> esuna is the best thing ever
ally: any -> pheonix down/arise is the best thing ever
These two things basically null the point of having ally: blind -> eye drops, etc., and ally: KO, which is gotten later on in the game as opposed to right away.
foe: any -> dispel is very useful I'd imagine, during the beginning and middle of the game. I found out about it too late for me to care about debuffing enemies. I actually found out about all of these way too late.

That's really every last thing I could ever complain about. Besides that I didn't think the story was anything amazing. Finally some good voices, though. One less major thing to worry about.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

This game was leaked a month early. My friend got it and later decided that it sucks cock.

[OA]

i'm about 16 hours in and I am having a great time. I agree with pretty much everything Audity said about things that could have made it better, but still overall it is fantastic.

*The music fits very well, but I think i'll be skipping the soundtrack on this one.

*Vaan is pretty much the Naive character that every story needs to flow naturally. He needs to be there to have all this crazy stuff explained to him, and by proxy, us. Otherwise all this fantastical stuff everyone else is used to wouldn't be explained, and the player wouldn't know what was going on as well.

[Psychonaut]

This game was leaked a month early. My friend got it and later decided that it sucks cock.

Your friend is a retard.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

This game was leaked a month early. My friend got it and later decided that it sucks cock.

Your friend is a retard.

This is astoundingly clever. You, sir, are going places!

[Psychonaut]

I realize.

[sephfire]

Please don't youkai no unmei this thread, you two.

[UnforgivingEdges]

--there is no way to tell ALL of the stats of equipment in shops. All it tells you is what the magic resistance and defense is.

Heavy Armor sets: ups defense and attack power
Light armor sets: ups defense and evade
Magick armor sets (robes and hats): ups defense and magick power

It allows character customization since everyone's license grid is the same.

[Xerol Oplan]

--there is no way to tell ALL of the stats of equipment in shops. All it tells you is what the magic resistance and defense is.

Heavy Armor sets: ups defense and attack power
Light armor sets: ups defense and evade
Magick armor sets (robes and hats): ups defense and magick power

It allows character customization since everyone's license grid is the same.

Some items increase max HP or some other stats, and it doesn't tell you this in the shop.

[zircon]

The game is fun as hell.

[NeoForte]

Good game, not without some flaws and little quirks I saw. I'm really liking it but I kinda wish the characters would be, I dunno more than average sometimes.

Anyway, in terms of chronological order of Ivalice would go something like this:

FFXII > FFT > Vagrant Story. FFTA would be a gaiden style game. It takes place in our world, they just find the book based on FFXII and they get sucked into it.

[I-n-j-i-n]

--there is no way to tell ALL of the stats of equipment in shops. All it tells you is what the magic resistance and defense is.

Heavy Armor sets: ups defense and attack power
Light armor sets: ups defense and evade
Magick armor sets (robes and hats): ups defense and magick power

It allows character customization since everyone's license grid is the same.

Um, speaking of which, the way they keep those stats in the back end without making it very apparent is a bit flawed as well. Maybe a small tutorial could've helped.

They really could use a status screen for when characters level up and even with enemies that are scouted by Libra, you need to manually target them with attack to even see their stats.

Lots of small design issues. Not really unexpected when they're trying something new.

[WesPip]

The game is fun as hell.
WHY DO YOU LIE?
...
Hell isn't fun.
Presumably.

[tgfoo]

--there is no way to tell ALL of the stats of equipment in shops. All it tells you is what the magic resistance and defense is.

Heavy Armor sets: ups defense and attack power
Light armor sets: ups defense and evade
Magick armor sets (robes and hats): ups defense and magick power

It allows character customization since everyone's license grid is the same.

Um, speaking of which, the way they keep those stats in the back end without making it very apparent is a bit flawed as well. Maybe a small tutorial could've helped.

They really could use a status screen for when characters level up and even with enemies that are scouted by Libra, you need to manually target them with attack to even see their stats.

Lots of small design issues. Not really unexpected when they're trying something new.

I also have quite a few minor issues with the game. I haven't really come across anything major though, an in game tutorial about using Mist Knacks would have been nice though. Overall, I'm really enjoying this game though.

[Avatar of Justice]

It's taken me a few days, but I'm starting to really see that I need to specialize my characters if I'm going to use the license system correctly. I think I'll go make some people behave like the old FF classes or something. Basch seems like a likely candidate for Paladin.

[spineshark]

Haha, traditional jobs. Why, when you can have Vaan the rainbow mage?

I love this game, so much...the boss in Golmore Jungle was amazing, and really, really hard.

[UnforgivingEdges]

It's taken me a few days, but I'm starting to really see that I need to specialize my characters if I'm going to use the license system correctly. I think I'll go make some people behave like the old FF classes or something. Basch seems like a likely candidate for Paladin.

Yeah, I'm doing that, too. I've got Penelo and Balthier my quick, light armor fighters, I have Fran and Ashe as my magic users, and Vaan and Basch are my tanks.

Eventually everyone will know everything, but that's why equipment choice is so important. If you want someone to be a really good mage, they need to have the magick armor, and if you want someone to be a really good tank, they need heavy armor.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

The game is fun as hell.
WHY DO YOU LIE?
...
Hell isn't fun.
Presumably.

It isn't so much that he's a liar, but it's that he does drugs....a lot.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I don't know how it came to this, but my Penelo is a physical combo monster now. I once did a 10 hit combo with her. I think I'll make Basch into a pure healer just for the fun of it.

[Xerol Oplan]

Ashe and Penelo, despite being 2 levels behind everyone else, still have more HP than everyone else. I keep neglecting Balthier, he's level 14 when everyone else is in the 20s.

I'm just after getting the Dawn Shard now, heading south, and getting owned by those elemental things. (Owned as in "hey what's that oh I'm dead".)

Basically I'm using Vaan, Bacsh, and Ashe for most of my story fighting, subbing in Fran and Balthier when I need to do some ranged attacks (damn flying creatures) and Penelo whenever someone dies. It's working out pretty well.

When do you start to get more useful Gambits? Also, is there a complete list somewhere? GameFAQs doesn't have ANYTHING useful.

[TSU]

I keep neglecting Balthier, he's level 14 when everyone else is in the 20s.

WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!? HE'S SO HAWT ;0; ;0;

[/irrelevance]

[spineshark]

When do you start to get more useful Gambits?
Probably you knew this but Ally: Any -> Status Cure Item gambits will only be used when the status to be cured is on an ally. As for the other stuff I'm just controlling Penelo as a Mage (even though, I'd love some Enemy Weak: X gambits) and I still need a Self: MP <20% so I can write a Charge gambit that doesn't blow, but other than that...

[Soma]

slight spoilers maybe, not plot specific just about leveling characters and stuffs. so...


SPOILERS

im like 40 something hours in, right after the draklor laboratory. All my characters use sword+shield except for fran who is stuck on bows. They all use swords because i have like 6 Deathbringers, which is a pretty awesome sword you can get kinda early on, so it kind of ruined my class specific characters. I mainly use Ashe, Vaan and penelo, Ashe and penelo are my support characters and vaan is mostly into technics. Also i wouldn't worry about some of your characters being lower leveled early on, when you get to that first town in the empire you can get that item that gives you 2x exp. The embroidered pin.. or something. Vaan was level 45 and basch was 28.. and i leveled him up to 48 in like 4 hours or something like that.

[tgfoo]

Quick question, where do you guys go to get loot to sell? I'm still fairly early in the game, I just finished getting the Dawn Shard and I've spent a couple hours cleaning out the Lhusu Mines of skeletons. The bone fragments sell for 193 a pop (99 x 193 = 19,107) plus if you get a good chain going on the skeletons they drop Iron helmets too which go for 700 I think. Plus you get over a hundred license points in about 15-20 minutes. Plus it let me lever up my characters a bunch. My main party of Vaan, Basch and Fran were all above level 20 and the other three were around level 12. This let them catch up very fast, and now they're all around level 25 and I've made Penelo into a pretty decent mage and worked out a pretty decent set of gambits. I think I've spent too much time playing this game in the last few days...

[Soma]

Quick question, where do you guys go to get loot to sell? I'm still fairly early in the game, I just finished getting the Dawn Shard and I've spent a couple hours cleaning out the Lhusu Mines of skeletons. The bone fragments sell for 193 a pop (99 x 193 = 19,107) plus if you get a good chain going on the skeletons they drop Iron helmets too which go for 700 I think. Plus you get over a hundred license points in about 15-20 minutes. Plus it let me lever up my characters a bunch. My main party of Vaan, Basch and Fran were all above level 20 and the other three were around level 12. This let them catch up very fast, and now they're all around level 25 and I've made Penelo into a pretty decent mage and worked out a pretty decent set of gambits. I think I've spent too much time playing this game in the last few days... Selling bone fragments from the lhusu mines is what i did early on, you can also try doing some of the bounty hunting clan stuff, it's not much money, but i think you get better rewards later on. I had alot of trouble with Gil early on. I started to realize you really only need 3 sets of armor, since you can only use 3 characters in battle , but if all your characters are different clases then that may not work.

[Audity]

When do you start to get more useful Gambits?

Right at the beginning of the game.

Ally: any.

See the bottom of my post (http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2672079&highlight=#2672079)

[Kiyosuki]

-The only problem though is some of the sound quality of the voices sounds a bit muffled in parts.

Well if they'd take off those goddamn iron helmets...

lol. I mean sometimes any of the character voices sound a little faded. Its not anything to do with the VAing, its just the audio. Its very apparent if you play another game with a lot of voice acting before, then play this game. It sounds fine for the most part, its a very minor detail but my friend and I noticed it happens to Penelo a bit more than the others. But other than that weird little fluke the voice acting is really great.

I think a couple of players didn't like the story because its focus and atmosphere is just so different than recent previous FF's have been. The focus of FFXII is so much broader and larger, its like a big grand adventure you get swept away in to find out what happens where as games like VII, VIII, and IV were epic but they were more personal stories centered around the main character, while IX and V were these big adventures but there was still a bit more of focused on some endeavor of some party member or the main character in your party. X was a very personal, more focused story. XII is this big event that you just happen to have some part in. The closest FF I can think of to comparing XII's story to is VI.

Even Ashe, arguably the games' true main character is herself kind of swept up in the whole thing. Vaan's kind of our eyes and ears into that whole world, like the fly on the wall character. He has some story to him as well of course but generally he's just a star-eyed kid who got wrapped up in something a lot bigger than him. I thought that fit XII's feel pretty nicely. You don't have to have the main lead be the center of all the attention or have enormous amounts of baggage in his head all the time after all. Well, I thought it was a nice breath of fresh air.

Gameplay wise, does anyone else' Vaan have an ungodly amount of evasion? Mine blocked and dodged like crazy so I basically modeled him after an FFXI Ninja and made him kind of a spam hitting evasion tank with some enfeebles. It worked really, really well.

[zircon]

Wow, what a great game. I love it.

[pwb]

Like UE said, best FF since Final Fantasy Tactics.

Also, I think Vagrant Story and FFXII might be closest as far as the loose chronology goes (Vagrant Story takes place in the Kingdom of Valencia which is present in FFXII's Ivalice).

[Kiyosuki]

I hear often that people say or think that FFXII takes place far before FFT and FFTA.

Where's that theory coming from? I'm just curious.

[Fraggy]

So I got this game yesterday and I've been in eternal FFOrgasm since. But something ruined my sexual euphoria, something so sinister not even the powers of Nobuo Uematsu could defeat this. I went into the sand desert right outside the city you start in. You know, the one where you fight the Rogue Tomato? I'm loving the game and what not. I'm listening to the music and all of the sudden there is a loud quarter note on the trumpet. It sounds totally off beat and horrible. Did anyone else notice this, and can someone please justify this to me?

[Avatar of Justice]

I hear often that people say or think that FFXII takes place far before FFT and FFTA.

Where's that theory coming from? I'm just curious.

In FFT there is a healthy amount of discussion about the ancient times when airships ruled the sky, and technology was prevalent before some cataclysm.

[Kiyosuki]

I hear often that people say or think that FFXII takes place far before FFT and FFTA.

Where's that theory coming from? I'm just curious.

In FFT there is a healthy amount of discussion about the ancient times when airships ruled the sky, and technology was prevalent before some cataclysm.

Interesting. Its been a while since I last played FFT but I vaguely remember that now. It could still go either way though, or be treated as maybe not the same universe and make perfect sense no matter how you look at it. Thats pretty neat.

I mentioned this to my best friend before though the other day and something we threw out there...is that if this was hypothetically the way it went, what if the "modern world" seen in FFTA was actually Ivalice in the future? Like..the days of FFXII were a way far back and forgotten time, while the FFT Ivalice was the equivalent of our medieval period? What if the book Mache and co get was some kind of funky magic time travelling book that brought back a lot of the people in that period to the ancient times?

[Hellcom]

I hear often that people say or think that FFXII takes place far before FFT and FFTA.

Where's that theory coming from? I'm just curious.

Please, for the sake of mankind, no inter-game time line threads.

[UnforgivingEdges]

I hear often that people say or think that FFXII takes place far before FFT and FFTA.

Where's that theory coming from? I'm just curious.

Please, for the sake of mankind, no inter-game time line threads.

If anyone is to blame, it's Matsuno himself, who included all of the similar names of places, characters, and coincidences of the story events when he wrote the script.

[Kiyosuki]

I hear often that people say or think that FFXII takes place far before FFT and FFTA.

Where's that theory coming from? I'm just curious.

Please, for the sake of mankind, no inter-game time line threads.

If anyone is to blame, it's Matsuno himself, who included all of the similar names of places, characters, and coincidences of the story events when he wrote the script.

Heh, you mean like the Zelda timeline nonesense? I didn't intend to...because its all hypothetical. I like to talk about that sort of thing just for fun. But don't worry, I understand, apparently for some people that simple fact is extremely hard to understand, turning simple speculative talk into serious business. I was just curious though where that whole idea came from in the first place...like what in game brought it out.

[Dyne]

I hear often that people say or think that FFXII takes place far before FFT and FFTA.

Where's that theory coming from? I'm just curious.

Please, for the sake of mankind, no inter-game time line threads.

If anyone is to blame, it's Matsuno himself, who included all of the similar names of places, characters, and coincidences of the story events when he wrote the script.

Heh, you mean like the Zelda timeline nonesense? I didn't intend to...because its all hypothetical. I like to talk about that sort of thing just for fun. But don't worry, I understand, apparently for some people that simple fact is extremely hard to understand, turning simple speculative talk into serious business. I was just curious though where that whole idea came from in the first place...like what in game brought it out.
Actually, I'm interested in this particular conversation here. That is, on the simple basis that names of places, espers/summons, names of certain characters (i.e.: Cid), and a few other odds and ends. Honestly, I don't think you could classify any of these in any sort of time line, or continuum thereof. And if you think about it that way, that would mean that each game is part of the same world. However, if you were to skew from that, and look at each game as a different plane of existence, then you could explain in theory a reason behind certain elements being symbolically, or at the very least coincidentally, linked to each plane.

For example, take Magic the Gathering. Each new expansion, each new set, has a new part of the universe to explore. The perfect example being the current set, Time Spiral, which revisits previous ages. You see certain characters, creatures, places, things, and whatnot, and you can explain this through a theory of relative time, possibly even some type of quantum theory could be used here.

Anyway, long story short, my theory is that there are one of two explanations for the Final Fantasy games.

Theory one: these are seperate, non-linear universes, and they have never, and never will co-exist, or flow from one into another.

Theory two: each game is a new alternate plane/universe, and with each new plane, you continue to see recurring symbolism and coincidence.

So yeah...that's my two cents.

[Xerol Oplan]

I thought this was supposed to be the same Ivalice as in FFT, and was supposed to "pre-tie" some of the loose ends in FFT before they happened (the storyline of FFXII taking place a thousand years or so before). This is what was floating around soon after the game was announced, but I don't know how much of that was retained in the final product.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Does it even matter if the worlds are connected in any superficial way though? I'm nearly through with the story and the entire backstory is just yawn-inducing. Does RPG backgrounds have to read like a boring textbook in order for it to be "mature"?

[Dyne]

Does it even matter if the worlds are connected in any superficial way though? I'm nearly through with the story and the entire backstory is just yawn-inducing. Does RPG backgrounds have to read like a boring textbook in order for it to be "mature"?

So you'd prefer to see romance in each and every game? Wow, sign up Tidus and Yuna, they're ready to love!

[Avatar of Justice]

Does it even matter if the worlds are connected in any superficial way though? I'm nearly through with the story and the entire backstory is just yawn-inducing. Does RPG backgrounds have to read like a boring textbook in order for it to be "mature"?

Example of one that you don't find yawn-inducing?

[UnforgivingEdges]

Does it even matter if the worlds are connected in any superficial way though? I'm nearly through with the story and the entire backstory is just yawn-inducing. Does RPG backgrounds have to read like a boring textbook in order for it to be "mature"?

They can't all be super-kawaii anime shit stories. Go play Tales of whatever if you want that crap.

[kamoh]

Finally I have enough cash to buy it today - although I don't have a whole lot of time for this game...well I'll probably end up making time. Girlfriend, Chess, Midterms, Term Papers, etc...

[Psychonaut]

Goddammit. I spent like two hours killing ridiculous monsters in the super-hard area that I'm not supposed to be in yet, and then this weaksauce horse with 99,999 HP that can teleport and won't stop following you even if you zone comes and kills EVERYONE. Basch lost four levels and I lost a crapton of really rare-sounding lewtz :/

[pwb]

:( that's a bummer, man



Also, you must realize that to whine is I-n-j-i-n's nature. That can be the only explanation for why he must do so in every post.

[I-n-j-i-n]

It's not whining since it's a genuine opinion I have of the game.

Also, FFT, Vagrant Story, FFTA and now, FFXII's backstories are always the same damn thing. It was like that since the Tactics Ogre days where the back story was the most generic medieval political situation one can dream of.

Just putting in airships and magic won't make what is otherwise a bland backstory into something worth arguing about.

As for FFXII's story, you don't need much of a brain to realize that the entire story is incredibly transparent and nothing is left to the imagination or are ambiguous at all. That's what made a lot of FF games (which is just about all FF games after FF4) into something worth talking about in terms of plot and back story. No such thing with FFXII except for the cute little references in the other similar games in its sub-development team which ultimately means nothing in relevance to the plot.

Care to point out just what exactly is whiny about all that? So saying that a plot is bland is "whining", now? I just think it's a matter of fact really. I couldn't care less about most plots in RPGs to begin with. Except FF games recently had a history of emotionally driven, ambiguous plots that actually were worth discussing to a point. Even the Dragonball Z inspired FF9 plot.

[pwb]

http://www.coombecastle.com/cheese_pages/Pages/Celtic%20Brie%204.jpg?

[Hellcom]

http://www.coombecastle.com/cheese_pages/Pages/Celtic%20Brie%204.jpg?

I love Brie.

Got the game today, so lets see if I can survive the boredom of the tutorial period. :?

[sephfire]

I'm still trying to unerstand what about the plot seems so "bland" and "transparent" to you. Since you seem to be one of the only ones here who holds that opinion, you may have to give us a bit more explanation.

[pwb]

I'm guessing because it isn't an "emotionally driven, ambiguous plot"

personally I was getting tired of those

[Beatdown]

This game has eaten an almost embarassing amount of my free time over the past 2 weeks. I could go as far as to say this is the game that's almost singlehandedly renewed my interest in console RPG's, though I don't expect much else to hold my nonexistant attention span like this game is. To be honest the battle system almost reminds me of the days I endured FFXI minus the slow gameplay and guys playing hot cat girl ninjas, even down to wandering around and finding a random monster with a name who outlevels everything in the area (including you) and chases you halfway across the zone. I actually had a MMO moment while taking the first rank IV mark (the ring wyrm).

"Yeah, I can take that. Lemme buff up first then we bust that ass. Alright let's do this...wait, that spell ends in "aga"...OH SHIT, THAT HURT. RUN."

I can't really complain about the story so far though. I can't say it's groundbreaking but it's at the very least interesting and gives me a reason to play through the game other than the sheer joy of beating things to the ground. Personally I think part of the appeal of the game is the whole medieval theme they've adopted. I'm also extremly happy to see a good game that isn't based on some sappy love story between two young, overly-emotional main characters that spend half the game bitching and crying on each other's shoulder. But then again I haven't finished it yet, so there's still room for suprise I guess.

[pwb]

I think when all is said and done, FFXII is going to ruin other RPGs for me. Also, it is going to be sad when they (most likely) step backwards in terms of gameplay in the next installment.

Also I like Fran's ass, and her voice actress (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/plasticwingsband/10f.jpg) is durn pretty too, imo.

[Dyne]

Goddammit. I spent like two hours killing ridiculous monsters in the super-hard area that I'm not supposed to be in yet, and then this weaksauce horse with 99,999 HP that can teleport and won't stop following you even if you zone comes and kills EVERYONE. Basch lost four levels and I lost a crapton of really rare-sounding lewtz :/

To this I can only say one thing: LEVEL UP BEFORE YOU ENTER THE GARAMSYTHE WATERWAY.

I mean really dude. You can't expect this to be like FFVII in that the monsters don't adjust level, or their AI is the equivallent of Jack Thompson on crack.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I think when all is said and done, FFXII is going to ruin other RPGs for me. Also, it is going to be sad when they (most likely) step backwards in terms of gameplay in the next installment.

Also I like Fran's ass, and her voice actress (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/plasticwingsband/10f.jpg) is durn pretty too, imo.

I'm amazed at your lack of tact when it comes down to having a critical eye. As for Fran, they could have made her Viera segment a bit more involving and lengthier. You are done with that small area then it's all over with. Same with the Nu Mou area. Actually, story segments since FFX has usually been very curt and short.

No room to improve? But there's a lot of small design issues like I've pointed out earlier. As for the story, I can see how people can like it the way it is. But it certainly wouldn't hurt if they can take a less beaten road there (so this is about 'ambiguous story' versus 'straightforward' story? Do we even have to start being combative about FFXII too? What's the point?). The gameplay alone is great, but I don't think it's a matter of being 'OMG BEST EVUR' and not being able to top it. Actually, most FF games can be seen in their own merit.

I'm also extremly happy to see a good game that isn't based on some sappy love story between two young, overly-emotional main characters that spend half the game bitching and crying on each other's shoulder. But then again I haven't finished it yet, so there's still room for suprise I guess.

I've been to about five forums regarding FFXII and you know what? I keep hearing that line every single time. "overly emotional"? I guess you mean any story that has any emotion at all which automatically relegates them to 'EMO' status.

Imagine if FF6 came out nowadays. Everybody would probably jump on it and call it emo since the characters have existential angst and have personal problems. I don't see what's so bad about either type of storytelling. The thing with FFXII's story is that the core story aspect is just thin. It's there, but the characters just drift along with the story in a FF1 style fashion. It's not bad, but it's not engaging to me. And I play the game only for the gameplay and not the plot, which seriously puts me to sleep.

[yangfeili]

I've experienced a bit of the game at a friend's house, and I'm not massively impressed. A major beef I've had with just about every RPG that has come out after FF7 is that their primary emphasis seems to be on the story, with the gameplay consisting exclusively of a string of battles utilizing a system which simply can not hold up for 50+ hours. Even when a game has a "good" story relative to other games, it's never that great on an absolute scale, and I often feel like the ambitions of the writers are grossly out of line with their actual talents.

"That's what RPGs have always been," you might reasonably reply. Fair enough; however, older RPGs weren't as long, and their battle systems held up well enough for 20+ hours. Plus the battles often felt more streamlined and enjoyable, whereas these days they often seem a little over-animated and clunky (which seems cool at first, but starts to drag on one's patience after a while). Plus they didn't beat you over the head quite so much with their story.

Most importantly, I thought I saw a faint glimmer of hope for the future of RPGs in FF7. The motorcycle chase scene led me to believe that there was going to be an upcoming revolution in the genre: RPGs where you do more than just commit monster genocide in a repetitive battle system, RPGs that incorporate a variety of gameplay styles, thus becoming more like their namesake and less like Vaguely Interactive Anime Simulation Games.

Sneak into the enemy base using a stealth system! Bribe your way past the guards using the negotiation system! Escape using the vehicle system! I don't know, it just seems like we should have moved past the point where an RPG is really nothing but a battle system. And no, cooking systems in games like Tales of Symphonia don't count. Western RPGs tend to go in this direction a bit more, but they tend to do it in sort of a bland way. I think if JRPGs tried to take this approach, they could do it with a lot more flare and style.

Regardless, all of the developers seem to have seized on the flashy cutscenes and big story as the aspects that made FF7 "good," and relentlessly copied those elements rather than trying to build on at least what I think were its more important contributions. FF7 felt like the next small step in a natural evolutionary process; everything after it has felt like grotesquely exaggerated bastard clones produced in a laboratory.

I think FFXII definitely deserves credit for trying to do something new with the battle system. But I think the best direction to take in the movement away from the oldschool "menu selection" system is either a full-on turn-based strategic system (something like FFT), or a straight-up realtime action system (Secret of Mana). This sort of hybrid MMORPG thing just doesn't work for me.

[Ace-Of-War]

I have to let off a little steam because the game has thrown me a curveball at about 20 hours. Without spoiling anything my party has just made it back to Rabanastre after what happened to the Leviathian Dreadnaught for those keeping score at home.

The story is getting so damn complex, I'm finding it very difficult to follow where is where and who is who. They all talk in old english and the names all blend together. They talk of nations that used to exist and counsels and organizations and governments so seemlessly that it just gets all mixed together. I understood the war aspect, but now with Ashe telling everyone about these stones and her family... I'm having a hard time following. I'm still not really sure what I'm going to do next, I just know the map tells me to go there.

Also, maybe it's just me but damned if I can't get any serious gil without spending hours on hunts and battling. I mean I literally went on a 120 combo run just so I could feel content with my wallet for a few hours, but it turns out I couldn't even afford decent armor for everyone with the chicken feed I made killing all those midget Star Wars guys. There's too much to buy! Just making sure I'm stocked on my items breaks my bank if I don't go earn more. Hunts are getting old quick and I'm already sick of the battle system. Gambits didn't turn out as nice as I had hoped for, it just seems like I don't get rewarded enough for the effort I put in. Oh well.

[pwb]

I'm amazed at your lack of tact when it comes down to having a critical eye.

I don't know what you're trying to say here. I don't have any problems with the story or how it has been presented so far, and I enjoy the whole textbook history they have come up with for Ivalice. I actually find it very interesting, and that is what I was trying to express.

I like political intigue. I like that the plot focuses more on the poltical "why" than the mystical "how," and it just kind of irks me to see people complaining about that aspect when there are literally thousands of other RPGs available that pander to the demographic who likes those stories.

Also, you constantly compare the story to something out of FF or FFII which simply isn't the case. The "bring down the Empire" premise may be old hat but it is presented here in a way that to my knowledge has never been done before.

No room to improve? But there's a lot of small design issues like I've pointed out earlier.

I never said that there was no room for improvement, what I said was that most likely they are going to do away with a lot of the innovations that FFXII brought to the table in an effort to play it safe and pacify the thousands of whiners complaining how it "isn't a real Final Fantasy" because there is no battle music/random battles/turn-based battles/job system.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Regardless, all of the developers seem to have seized on the flashy cutscenes and big story as the aspects that made FF7 "good," and relentlessly copied those elements rather than trying to build on at least what I think were its more important contributions. FF7 felt like the next small step in a natural evolutionary process; everything after it has felt like grotesquely exaggerated bastard clones produced in a laboratory.

I agree. FF7 was good in its own right, but the hype surrounding it led to all that. What people keep forgetting was how FF7 probably had some of the most involving character-centric moments of its time that made it stand out. Not only because of the flashiness and the theatrical aspects of it.

I think FFXII definitely deserves credit for trying to do something new with the battle system. But I think the best direction to take in the movement away from the oldschool "menu selection" system is either a full-on turn-based strategic system (something like FFT), or a straight-up realtime action system (Secret of Mana). This sort of hybrid MMORPG thing just doesn't work for me.

I believe they tried to implement a strategic placement for FFXII, but that idea apparently failed since they couldn't figure out how to implement it. I'm guessing it may be because each battle could take 30 minutes like it was in FFT.

I like political intigue. I like that the plot focuses more on the poltical "why" than the mystical "how," and it just kind of irks me to see people complaining about that aspect when there are literally thousands of other RPGs available that pander to the demographic who likes those stories.

I'm not sure I'm really complaining because of that aspect. The world is very nicely set up and the history and everything is fine. The plot is linear but serviceable I suppose. What gets me is how the characters get just about zero attention and most of the dialog is just completely straightforward and they are bunched up in the beginning and the end. I just didn't think they really cared to flesh out the characters at all or make them stand out in the midst of the story. I'm just thinking it wouldn't have killed them to do more. A lot of reviews have pointed out that Vaan just seemed to go for the ride instead of being a true character and I'm merely agreeing with that assessment. In the history of great FF characters, the ones in FFXII are just forgettable for me. People keep talking about how sexy Fran or cool Balthier is, but that's usually because of their character design and the small quips of dialog that ultimately means little. Even Cloud in FF7 had a ton of meaningful dialog. Locke in FF6 had entire hours worth of story to himself. I'd even say that Laguna of FF8 had way more attention given to him than anyone in FF12. I'm just wondering why that isn't the case with the new game (maybe even including FFX, which was pretty skimpy with the story and dialog just the same. But at least it had way more character-centric moments than FFXII did).

[CIaude]

I'm pissed. This game has been nothing but disappointment. I'll give Square one thing, the battle system isn't nearly as shitty as I thought it would be. In fact, I think it's kind of fun... Well I did for a while. I've been playing for 30+ hours and I'm losing my tolerance for bullshit... Specifically the story.

Vaan is- Wait is it Vann or Vaan? Fuck it. Minivan. At this point, Minivan is a twat with no purpose other than to stand around like an ass. Does he have any motivation at all in this story? I'm still hoping that he'll generate some valuable input before the story is over, but I'm starting to doubt it.

Penelo is useless and annoying. Why aren't they fleshing out her relationship with Minivan during cutscenes? Hell, I don't even remember the last time she had dialog in a cutscene. Again, I hope she generates more valuable input before the game ends.

Balthier is great. Pirates with guns are always good. And I like he feels like a nod towards Jack Sparrow, and Johnny Depp is a god damn fox. Hell I'd fuck him. And that means a lot because I'm a homophobic bigot, but I digress. Balthier's probably my favorite character so far because he's more interesting than the others. He's mysterious yet charismatic... He's a pirate. Whatever, I like him.

Fran is... Feh. I don't despise her character but I wish she had a bit more of a purpose besides magic person.

"Look guys! Strange unexplainable shit is occurring! Fran what's up with that!"
Fran: "Magic."
"Oh. Okay."

Still, her background is becoming more interesting. I get the impression that I'm going to find out more about her past as well as her relationship with Balthier soon. I cross my fingers.

Basche is alright. I mean, he's cool and stuff. His input into the storyline is important, and I'm sure I'm going to find out more before the game is done. No real complaints about him.

Ashe is also a feh character. I like her and I hate her. I don't have any valid reason to dislike her. She is helping to progress the story along. I dunno, maybe because she's stubborn at times. Or maybe because she's almost hogging the spotlight as far as relevance to the story. This could just my imagination or because of how far I am in the game.

The story also feels like it's trying too hard to be epic. Or maybe it is epic, and I'm just oblivious to it. If anything, it's tedious.


"Alright guys, we need to find this thing. It's very far away in a dungeon that is rather long."

Stuff happens.

"Alright guys, now we need to find another thing. It is also very far away."

Stuff happens.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.


I'm a goddamn errand boy and I'm getting sick of it. Again, it could just be that I'm not that far in the story, but it's still annoying. I liked FF7 and FF6 because I felt like I was doing something worthwhile.

"Shinra sucks, we gotta stop them. Who's Sephiroth? Oh, an asshole. Let's fuck him up. Shit, Sephiroth is trying to destroy the world. We gotta stop him. Wow, Sephiroth is always one step ahead of us. What's up with that? Damn, Sephiroth played us like a bitch. Damn, Aeris died. This shit's going downhill. Damn, Cloud, you fucked in the head. Damn, Sephiroth is gonna destroy the world. Damn, we got personal shit to sort out and we still gotta deal with Shinra. Alright, let's go fuck up Sephiroth. Sweet. He's been fucked up. Sweet, an ambiguous ending and a deus ex machina at the same time. Let's watch Advent Children. Wow that was pretty but also pointless."

I'm gonna go play more FFXII until then, I won't give a final verdict on the game. But as of right now, it's not looking good.

[CIaude]

I'm pissed. This game has been nothing but disappointment. I'll give Square one thing, the battle system isn't nearly as shitty as I thought it would be. In fact, I think it's kind of fun... Well I did for a while. I've been playing for 30+ hours and I'm losing my tolerance for bullshit... Specifically the story.

Vaan is- Wait is it Vann or Vaan? Fuck it. Minivan. At this point, Minivan is a twat with no purpose other than to stand around like an ass. Does he have any motivation at all in this story? I'm still hoping that he'll generate some valuable input before the story is over, but I'm starting to doubt it.

Penelo is useless and annoying. Why aren't they fleshing out her relationship with Minivan during cutscenes? Hell, I don't even remember the last time she had dialog in a cutscene. Again, I hope she generates more valuable input before the game ends.

Balthier is great. Pirates with guns are always good. He feels like a nod towards Jack Sparrow, and Johnny Depp is a god damn fox. Hell I'd fuck him. And that means a lot because I'm a homophobic bigot, but I digress. Balthier's probably my favorite character so far because he's more interesting than the others. He's mysterious yet charismatic... He's a pirate. Whatever, I like him.

Fran is... Feh. I don't despise her character but I wish she had a bit more of a purpose besides magic person.

"Look guys! Strange unexplainable shit is occurring! Fran what's up with that!"
Fran: "Magic."
"Oh. Okay."

Still, her background is becoming more interesting. I get the impression that I'm going to find out more about her past as well as her relationship with Balthier soon. I cross my fingers.

Basche is alright. I mean, he's cool and stuff. His input into the storyline is important, and I'm sure I'm going to find out more before the game is done. No real complaints about him.

Ashe is also a feh character. I like her and I hate her. I don't have any valid reason to dislike her. She is helping to progress the story along. I dunno, maybe because she's stubborn at times. Or maybe because she's almost hogging the spotlight as far as relevance to the story. This could just my imagination or because of how far I am in the game.

The story also feels like it's trying too hard to be epic. Or maybe it is epic, and I'm just oblivious to it. If anything, it's tedious.


"Alright guys, we need to find this thing. It's very far away in a dungeon that is rather long."

Stuff happens.

"Alright guys, now we need to find another thing. It is also very far away."

Stuff happens.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.


I'm a goddamn errand boy and I'm getting sick of it. Again, it could just be that I'm not that far in the story, but it's still annoying. I liked FF7 and FF6 because I felt like I was doing something worthwhile.

"Shinra sucks, we gotta stop them. Who's Sephiroth? Oh, an asshole. Let's fuck him up. Shit, Sephiroth is trying to destroy the world. We gotta stop him. Wow, Sephiroth is always one step ahead of us. What's up with that? Damn, Sephiroth played us like a bitch. Damn, Aeris died. This shit's going downhill. Damn, Cloud, you fucked in the head. Damn, Sephiroth is gonna destroy the world. Damn, we got personal shit to sort out and we still gotta deal with Shinra. Alright, let's go fuck up Sephiroth. Sweet. He's been fucked up. Sweet, an ambiguous ending and a deus ex machina at the same time. Let's watch Advent Children. Wow, that was pretty but also very pointless."

I'm gonna go play more FFXII until then, I won't give a final verdict on the game. But as of right now, it's not looking good.

[Hellcom]

^^ I'm only about 7 hour into the game, but so far I have to agree with you. Although the world surrounding these character is very well done, the individual character development is poor. I have yet to figure out exactly what the motivations are for "minivan" are as he just seems to tag along with Balthier, and I'm not even sure why Balthier even lets him do that.

[Monobrow]

Huh...


Okay, I here goes an actual serious review from me:

Gameplay: 8/10 - This would be a ten, if I didn't find myself wishing there were such a thing as "sprint shoes" later in the game. Sometimes walking the same area ten times at the same constant speed can irk you. And you revisit some areas 4-5 times throughout the game. And I hardly ever used a chocobo. The battle system is really f%#king great. I actually enjoyed some battles where I knew that if I had the right gambits on, I could just walk away for a minute, get something to drink, and come back. Other times I had to be so involved in a battle that if I took less than a split second to do shit, my party would be pretty much wiped (I hunted marks a little too high level) Also, this game on "active" as opposed to "wait" actually means something.

Sound: 8/10 - Yeah there were some good sounds, but nothing really great.


Music: 7.5/10 - Okay, sometimes I want to say the music is great, but really, the guy has a tendency to focus on the most annoying parts of his songs in order to bring out the better parts, (a good example of this would be the lowtown theme) which he just lets go and moves on to the next whatever the hell it is he is trying to accomplish with his music. He's no doubt talented, and after hearing a theme about 20 times or so, I do acknowledge that they get stuck in my head and sometimes are catchy after a while - or won't go away (whichever), and sometimes I really enjoy the music. I also do respect that he went for an entirely authentic orchestrated soundtrack, I didn't hear any instruments outside of the symphonic spectrum that I know of... I don't think the guy had to do that, but I guess I respect it. As for comparing the music to Nobuo Uematsu's...There just isn't a comparison...As different and somewhat refreshing the music of FFXII is, I'd still take the soundtracks to IV, VI, and VII any day of the week. It's really love/hate with me - I sometimes really want a more melodic feel, and the score itself could use a little more thematic progression from song to song...It was done a couple times, but I probably would have liked it better if could I sometimes associate a character or story progression with a certain "main" theme at least to bind it all together.

Story: 7.5/10 - It's very subdued...But in a way, I appreciated some of it, the characters aren't always telling us exactly what they think about everything...But I think we know anyway, or get the feeling that they are just as "swept up" as we are. It does slow down in the middle, and I wondered what the hell Vaan was even doing there.

Addictiveness: 10/10 - I couldn't stop playing for a week or so, and not just because I was hoping things would be better in the story, but because the gameplay is actually fun.

Character Designs: 9/10 - Aside from Vaan's S&M vest, I really liked what they did...I even sort of liked Fran's ...bunny ears...(you thought I was going to say her ass hanging out)

Voice Acting: 10/10 - Really awesome, I especially liked Larsa and Fran.

Dialogue: 10/10 - Some of the dialogue in this game is actually way above par. I didn't expect the maturity of it. It wasn't cliche and it wasn't overdramatic, but it still meant something, when something had to be said.

So overall I'd say around an 8/10 give or take.

[sephfire]

I'm trying to identify what elements of the FFXII plot are different from the FF norm. Something about the story seems much bigger than just the characters. The world of Ivalice is writhing in political chaos and the team is bunch of individuals swept into the fray. They band together and struggle to prevent their world from tearing itself apart.

Beacause the central conflict of the story isn't wrapped around a single character's thoughts, emotions or history, the plot feels much more grandiose in scale. However, we do miss out on some of the emotional, character-driven themes that formed the foundation of previous Final Fantasies. That's not to say the characters aren't interesting. Fran and Balthier alone are two of the most interesting characters to come out of FF in years. But because the story doesn't seem to focus too closely on any one character in the cast, certain elements of that classic FF storytelling style do seem to be missing. I'm not sure that it's a good or bad thing. But I'm glad to see Square-Enix mix up the storytelling formula for once.

[Vivi_Rules_Pie]

I think that Final Fantasie's popularity is both a blessing and a curse. The obvios curse part would be that its set to such high standards and is scrutinized by fans who have by now played well over 200 or 300 hours of this series. Its impossible to please everyone, However, I think its a blessing also because Squenix knows for a fact that it will sell. People will buy it, so Squenix can take risks like trying out a new battle system and even if people dont like it, they'll still make a profit, which gives them the ability to make a sequal to try to improve upon the past instalments faults.

I dont know how well that was explained, but I for one am glad that they are trying new things with this game, just like they've been doing for the entire series.

[Ace-Of-War]

I'm, like, completely lost on how to use Quickenings. I have one called Tides of Fire or something that I haven't been able to use effectively, and I recently got another for Ashe which I can't remember the name of. I don't know how to "execute" either of them aside from picking them in the menu and crossing my fingers. Does anyone know of an explaination on how to use these? The instruction manual left me with more questions than answers.

[The Phalanx]

I'm, like, completely lost on how to use Quickenings. I have one called Tides of Fire or something that I haven't been able to use effectively, and I recently got another for Ashe which I can't remember the name of. I don't know how to "execute" either of them aside from picking them in the menu and crossing my fingers. Does anyone know of an explaination on how to use these? The instruction manual left me with more questions than answers.

M'kay, to paraphrase my brother on this:

When you select a quickening, a little menu with three options and a white line appear on the bottom. The line is essentially your timer, which is 4 seconds.

Sometimes, there won't be any options when you start; rapidly refresh the menu with L2/R2 until something comes up. Then, press the appropriate button and bam, an attack.

The screen will then switch to whoever has any available Mist, continuing from the original 4-second timer. Sometimes, a Mist Charge will appear--hit that immediately, as that refreshed both the timer and mist charges. It is possible to keep connecting with a Quickening through a bit of luck and timing, but the timer itself keeps getting faster with little to no pauses in it.

Thats the short of it, anyway.

[I-n-j-i-n]

However, we do miss out on some of the emotional, character-driven themes that formed the foundation of previous Final Fantasies. That's not to say the characters aren't interesting. Fran and Balthier alone are two of the most interesting characters to come out of FF in years. But because the story doesn't seem to focus too closely on any one character in the cast, certain elements of that classic FF storytelling style do seem to be missing. I'm not sure that it's a good or bad thing. But I'm glad to see Square-Enix mix up the storytelling formula for once.

Bad thing. Because FF games have built up that reputation for more than a decade since FF6. Then again, FFXIII (13) will be in the hands of Nomura again, and I have the feeling that he'll probably focus on the character development again. Hopefully it won't be as crazy and weird as the ones in Kingdom Hearts though.

And I say this again. When people say that such and such FFXII character is interesting, I only hear about their small witty quips or how they're dressed. That's not true characterization. I know JRPGs aren't supposed to be novels, but if you want an example of a straightforward RPG with great characters, you can try Dragon Quest 8.

think that Final Fantasie's popularity is both a blessing and a curse. The obvios curse part would be that its set to such high standards and is scrutinized by fans who have by now played well over 200 or 300 hours of this series. Its impossible to please everyone, However, I think its a blessing also because Squenix knows for a fact that it will sell. People will buy it, so Squenix can take risks like trying out a new battle system and even if people dont like it, they'll still make a profit, which gives them the ability to make a sequal to try to improve upon the past instalments faults.


I am pretty sure that the plot is easily the biggest complaint that a lot of FF fans apparently have with FFXII. Can't complain about the gameplay too much even though the battle system feels so exploitable at times, especially with status effects that work like magic (pun) against even the toughest bosses. But that's typical of Yasumi Matsuno games. Pretty solid game play but with the exploitation factor.

[Psychonaut]

I'm, like, completely lost on how to use Quickenings. I have one called Tides of Fire or something that I haven't been able to use effectively, and I recently got another for Ashe which I can't remember the name of. I don't know how to "execute" either of them aside from picking them in the menu and crossing my fingers. Does anyone know of an explaination on how to use these? The instruction manual left me with more questions than answers.

Check the thread in Unmod, Syl has posted a really thorough explanation of the system.

[pwb]

And I say this again. When people say that such and such FFXII character is interesting, I only hear about their small witty quips or how they're dressed. That's not true characterization. I know JRPGs aren't supposed to be novels, but if you want an example of a straightforward RPG with great characters, you can try Dragon Quest 8.

Just because the characters don't have "true characterization" doesn't mean a character can't be interesting or cool or likeable. Most of the cast of FFVIII were more developed than the characters in FFXII, but they certainly bored me to tears.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Well, yeah. FF8 was like the opposite but with a plot and characters that were a bit too crazy and out there for their own good.

[Avatar of Justice]

So, I hear FF12's release has been delayed in Europe. Out of curiosity, could someone illuminate my ignorant American ass on European releases of games. Do they typically fully localize the game for the plethora of languages in Europe? Which ones exactly? And do they rerecord a dub for the various languages as well? The reason I ask is that it sounds like it would be pretty expensive to do a European release of a game....

[pwb]

I just got the Golden Amulet from one of the hunts and man is that thing awesome. Double LP? Yes, please.

[Hellcom]

So, I hear FF12's release has been delayed in Europe. Out of curiosity, could someone illuminate my ignorant American ass on European releases of games. Do they typically fully localize the game for the plethora of languages in Europe? Which ones exactly? And do they rerecord a dub for the various languages as well? The reason I ask is that it sounds like it would be pretty expensive to do a European release of a game....

Because the European market is so diverse they have to do numerous versions to French, German, Spanish, Italian as the main languages of the continent. In addition to translations, separate marketing campaigns are required for each region. As you said, Europe is a expensive market to enter, but is no bigger or profitable in comparison to the Japanese or North American market. As a result, Europe gets the short straw in almost everything.

[pwb]

I did the Mindflayer hunt earlier today, and it was tough. I prevailed in the end although I did have to use a megalixer.

It was neat seeing the Mindflayer in 3D after killing them so many tines in FFT.

[I-n-j-i-n]

If they called it the Mind Flayer, they would've been sued by D&D.

[Dyne]

I just got the Golden Amulet from one of the hunts and man is that thing awesome. Double LP? Yes, please.

Congrats. How'd you come upon such a nifty artifact?

[Psychonaut]

I just got the Golden Amulet from one of the hunts and man is that thing awesome. Double LP? Yes, please.

Congrats. How'd you come upon such a nifty artifact?

You can buy it from a gazillion different vendors.

[Sag Ee Mana]

Golden Amulet. Love it. When I got it, immediately I bought 5 more xDDD

Yeah, good game... 75 hours in 8 days. Social life off.
Back to work now !

[kamoh]

For anyone who knows:

I just traveled through the Sandsea (first time) with characters aroudn level 12. I think I'm underpowered cause I'm just running my ass off trying to progress through the game without losing characters. I just got raise but I want the gambit to use it. I'm at the boss at the tomb with these Level 12 characters...should I level everyone up? It's gotten to the point where I just wanna make sure that Vossler is okay and my party is just healing.

[UnforgivingEdges]

For anyone who knows:

I just traveled through the Sandsea (first time) with characters aroudn level 12. I think I'm underpowered cause I'm just running my ass off trying to progress through the game without losing characters. I just got raise but I want the gambit to use it. I'm at the boss at the tomb with these Level 12 characters...should I level everyone up? It's gotten to the point where I just wanna make sure that Vossler is okay and my party is just healing.

Uh, yeah. You're gonna get raped by that boss. Get your guys to at least level 15 or so.

[Sag Ee Mana]

About the Mist, there is something funny...

When I was lv 22-23, I fought lv 35 monsters with the mist. That's stupid but this is the first FF we can do this xD

And... Moreover, if you kill like this a Hunted Creature (10 lv more ?), you can get really good stuff for you.
(Example for me : a really good bow for Fran with a +14 difference)

Oh, about my use of the Mist :

Three people with MistX3 .
Then party, change ONE person only then mist.
Then party, change ONE again then mist.
Then party, change for the last ONE and mist.
If you're lucky, you can get a good hit with only one mist holder at the beginning of the mist.
After, you can charge, hoping to be lucky, but it should be ok now. Lots of damage.

And, oh, one IMPORTANT thing :

Don't forget you can RAISE or CURE people in the Reserve !!!

[Office Despot]

I beat the game but haven't done most of the extra bosses yet. I've gone back and started a 'Vaan Only' game, but once I got Balthier it became a 'Balthier Only' game. Overall, it isn't going to be too difficult, though the Ghis fight was a bit rough.

In terms of story and charactization, it is about on the same level as FFT and Vagrant Story. The scenes are well written, and the central story focuses more on politics and the motivations of villains than it does on the playable characters. If you couldn't stand either of those games, then you won't be able to stand FF12.

Finally, the story of 12 is connected with the stories of Vagrant Story and FFT, with minor continuity errors.

[Office Despot]

For anyone who knows:

I just traveled through the Sandsea (first time) with characters aroudn level 12. I think I'm underpowered cause I'm just running my ass off trying to progress through the game without losing characters. I just got raise but I want the gambit to use it. I'm at the boss at the tomb with these Level 12 characters...should I level everyone up? It's gotten to the point where I just wanna make sure that Vossler is okay and my party is just healing.

Uh, yeah. You're gonna get raped by that boss. Get your guys to at least level 15 or so.

With the bosses in the tomb, but the Bird and the Demon Wall that you have to fight can be wasted pretty quickly with a single mist attack. The end boss, on the other hand, may be a little bit more difficult, though keeping your characters spread out, healed up, while keeping a nice stock of Phoenix Downs should be enough at level 12. Note that there are no save points in that dungeon, not even right before the last boss, so you'll have to exit the place a few times.

[Dyne]

For anyone who knows:

I just traveled through the Sandsea (first time) with characters aroudn level 12. I think I'm underpowered cause I'm just running my ass off trying to progress through the game without losing characters. I just got raise but I want the gambit to use it. I'm at the boss at the tomb with these Level 12 characters...should I level everyone up? It's gotten to the point where I just wanna make sure that Vossler is okay and my party is just healing.

Uh, yeah. You're gonna get raped by that boss. Get your guys to at least level 15 or so.

With the bosses in the tomb, but the Bird and the Demon Wall that you have to fight can be wasted pretty quickly with a single mist attack. The end boss, on the other hand, may be a little bit more difficult, though keeping your characters spread out, healed up, while keeping a nice stock of Phoenix Downs should be enough at level 12. Note that there are no save points in that dungeon, not even right before the last boss, so you'll have to exit the place a few times.

I restarted the game after playing for an initial 10 hours. Got to the Leviathan, and decided I wasn't leveled up enough. Right now I'm at level 20 and I'm pushing it up to Level 30 so I can just start rippin' the hell out of the rest of the enemies I'm going to encounter from here to there.

[Fraggy]

You guys know the music in Paramina rift? The background music? With the piano in it? Yeah... I really want someone to remix that for me. I'd love that. kthxbai

[Ace-Of-War]

For anyone who knows:

I just traveled through the Sandsea (first time) with characters aroudn level 12. I think I'm underpowered cause I'm just running my ass off trying to progress through the game without losing characters. I just got raise but I want the gambit to use it. I'm at the boss at the tomb with these Level 12 characters...should I level everyone up? It's gotten to the point where I just wanna make sure that Vossler is okay and my party is just healing.

Uh, yeah. You're gonna get raped by that boss. Get your guys to at least level 15 or so.

With the bosses in the tomb, but the Bird and the Demon Wall that you have to fight can be wasted pretty quickly with a single mist attack. The end boss, on the other hand, may be a little bit more difficult, though keeping your characters spread out, healed up, while keeping a nice stock of Phoenix Downs should be enough at level 12. Note that there are no save points in that dungeon, not even right before the last boss, so you'll have to exit the place a few times.

I restarted the game after playing for an initial 10 hours. Got to the Leviathan, and decided I wasn't leveled up enough. Right now I'm at level 20 and I'm pushing it up to Level 30 so I can just start rippin' the hell out of the rest of the enemies I'm going to encounter from here to there.

Level 20 at the Leviathan? I'll bet the Imperials are running away from you.

[OA]

You guys know the music in Paramina rift? The background music? With the piano in it? Yeah... I really want someone to remix that for me. I'd love that. kthxbai

yeah first time i heard that i wondered "how long until someone remixes this?"

just a matter of time, I promise.

[kamoh]

For anyone who knows:

I just traveled through the Sandsea (first time) with characters aroudn level 12. I think I'm underpowered cause I'm just running my ass off trying to progress through the game without losing characters. I just got raise but I want the gambit to use it. I'm at the boss at the tomb with these Level 12 characters...should I level everyone up? It's gotten to the point where I just wanna make sure that Vossler is okay and my party is just healing.

Uh, yeah. You're gonna get raped by that boss. Get your guys to at least level 15 or so.

With the bosses in the tomb, but the Bird and the Demon Wall that you have to fight can be wasted pretty quickly with a single mist attack. The end boss, on the other hand, may be a little bit more difficult, though keeping your characters spread out, healed up, while keeping a nice stock of Phoenix Downs should be enough at level 12. Note that there are no save points in that dungeon, not even right before the last boss, so you'll have to exit the place a few times.

I restarted the game after playing for an initial 10 hours. Got to the Leviathan, and decided I wasn't leveled up enough. Right now I'm at level 20 and I'm pushing it up to Level 30 so I can just start rippin' the hell out of the rest of the enemies I'm going to encounter from here to there.

Level 20 at the Leviathan? I'll bet the Imperials are running away from you.

I had everyone at around 17 at the Leviathan - it WASN'T too much, and now I haven't even started to cross Giza without getting as many marks and magicks as possible - including level 20 mans.

[Mozutaka]

Just finished FFXII, yay! Now I'm on one of those "ending highs" I get when I beat RPGs. 70:11 last save, and I've hardly done any side quests yet. Probably racked up all those hours talking to townspeople and stuff, I really got into this FF...

I can definitely see what took them so long to make the game: it was very detailed in every aspect of its production. Tomorrow I'll be sad, having finally completed it (well, the story anyways). I need Twilight Princess or something before I get all weepy. ; ;

You guys know the music in Paramina rift? The background music? With the piano in it? Yeah... I really want someone to remix that for me. I'd love that. kthxbai

Yes, that one and 1:45-2:35 on the ending movie track are my favorite pieces in the game. Guess that's why I spent so much time leveling in the rift. >.>;

[sephfire]

Interesting bit of trivia: according to IMDB, the voice actor for Basch also voices Bloo and many other characters on Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. That's serious versatility. 8O

[kamoh]

Interesting bit of trivia: according to IMDB, the voice actor for Basch also voices Bloo and many other characters on Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. That's serious versatility. 8O

Notice in that list, way down the way is Phil LaMarr from MadTV - didn't know that he was a voice actor primarily.

And of course, John DiMaggio, with a significantly limited role compared to his usual (Wakka and Kimahri in FFX, notably Bender in Futurama, among many many many others).

[Xerol Oplan]

And of course, John DiMaggio, with a significantly limited role compared to his usual (Wakka and Kimahri in FFX, notably Bender in Futurama, among many many many others).

This just gave me an idea - give Bender's voice to Wakka (and change some of the dialogue to match). Suddenly FFX becomes the greatest game ever.

[Tptranger]

First off, I have to say I'm really enjoying this game. It's a lot of fun, and I haven't played 10 or 11, but I played the other 9, and the changes are different, but very innovative and cool, in my opinion.

===Possible Spoilers===
Anyone notice ties to Star Wars? Specifically A New Hope... I just got to the dreadnaught after Bhujerba...
Ashe = Leia, trapped in a big IMPERIAL ship, kept captive.
Vaan = Luke, trying to save Ashe for seemingly unknown reasons
Balthier = Han Solo, He's a pirate and being hunted by Bounty Hunters
Fran = Chewy, Balthier's partner in action
Vayne = Vader, this one is iffy, but I can kinda see it. Hard to explain though.
I donno, I just thought about it on the way to class today and was like hey, they do share a lot of story elements.
===End Spoilers===
===End post===

[pwb]

http://thirdwinter.com/pics/mozutaka.jpg

very nice sig, btw

[Final_metroid]

I need some tips on defeating the first (distance wise) demon wall in TOR

[Avatar of Justice]

I need some tips on defeating the first (distance wise) demon wall in TOR

I waited until I was around level 30 and easily kicked his ass. I don't think you're really supposed to beat him when you first encounter him. You can probably beat him earlier with quickenings, but I avoid using them in the name of cheapness.

[Ace-Of-War]

Interesting bit of trivia: according to IMDB, the voice actor for Basch also voices Bloo and many other characters on Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. That's serious versatility. 8O

Notice in that list, way down the way is Phil LaMarr from MadTV - didn't know that he was a voice actor primarily.

He does MGS2 as well.

Anyone notice ties to Star Wars?

That's pretty interesting, I didn't notice that.

[Office Despot]

For anyone who knows:

I just traveled through the Sandsea (first time) with characters aroudn level 12. I think I'm underpowered cause I'm just running my ass off trying to progress through the game without losing characters. I just got raise but I want the gambit to use it. I'm at the boss at the tomb with these Level 12 characters...should I level everyone up? It's gotten to the point where I just wanna make sure that Vossler is okay and my party is just healing.

Uh, yeah. You're gonna get raped by that boss. Get your guys to at least level 15 or so.

With the bosses in the tomb, but the Bird and the Demon Wall that you have to fight can be wasted pretty quickly with a single mist attack. The end boss, on the other hand, may be a little bit more difficult, though keeping your characters spread out, healed up, while keeping a nice stock of Phoenix Downs should be enough at level 12. Note that there are no save points in that dungeon, not even right before the last boss, so you'll have to exit the place a few times.

I restarted the game after playing for an initial 10 hours. Got to the Leviathan, and decided I wasn't leveled up enough. Right now I'm at level 20 and I'm pushing it up to Level 30 so I can just start rippin' the hell out of the rest of the enemies I'm going to encounter from here to there.

Level 20 at the Leviathan? I'll bet the Imperials are running away from you.

I was about level 20 there for my 'Solo Balthier' game, so a group of 20s there is own sauce.

[Hawkwing]

my sister says its boring

...i can't get enough

[PriZm]

SPOILERS










I'm getting really pissed off at this game, making me explore areas 4 times where monsters give me 2 EXP to get the right weather to get my hunting mark.

[Doulifée]

just enter/exit the border of the map where it connects to another area, Weather switch occur more quickly that way (from sunny to cloudy).

[kamoh]

SPOILERS










I'm getting really pissed off at this game, making me explore areas 4 times where monsters give me 2 EXP to get the right weather to get my hunting mark.

Shh. It's not about EXP - it's all about LP.

[Sir_NutS]

Anyone notice ties to Star Wars? Specifically A New Hope... I just got to the dreadnaught after Bhujerba...


I just got this game last week and spend the weekend playing it. I must say that I feel the same way, this game feels like a weird mix of Old-school Final Fantasy(specially VI), Final Fantasy Tactics and Star Wars. While playing it I'm always getting the feeling that I'm in a star wars universe for some strange reason, while having strange flashbacks to FFVI. o_0.

It could be just me though, I'm NutS after all.(BTW, I'm completely loving this game.)

[PriZm]

SPOILERS










I'm getting really pissed off at this game, making me explore areas 4 times where monsters give me 2 EXP to get the right weather to get my hunting mark.

Shh. It's not about EXP - it's all about LP.

I'm level 70. My LP board is complete for every character except for those useless bows/guns/swords that a given character will never use.

Also, I was specifically talking about the gil snapper hunt, which came kinda late in the game, at least for me, and was a total bore.

[Avatar of Justice]

I'm trying to do the marks as I go, as opposed to waiting till the end and just totally obliterating most of the marks. It is amazing in FF12 how long you can do shit that doesn't advance the plot whatsoever and still have fun.

[UnforgivingEdges]

I'm trying to do the marks as I go, as opposed to waiting till the end and just totally obliterating most of the marks. It is amazing in FF12 how long you can do shit that doesn't advance the plot whatsoever and still have fun.

I reached the 40 hour mark last night and still haven't been to Archades.

[kamoh]

I'm trying to do the marks as I go, as opposed to waiting till the end and just totally obliterating most of the marks. It is amazing in FF12 how long you can do shit that doesn't advance the plot whatsoever and still have fun.

I reached the 40 hour mark last night and still haven't been to Archades.

Similar here, I think - I'm in Arcahdes right now with 45 hours logged total.

I spent like 15 hours yesterday just hunting and levelling up.

EDIT: Oh, and I got Adrammelech with level 30 fighters.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I broke 100 hours. 8O

I'm sorta pissy that the Strahl is usable almost near the very end of the game..

[Petara]

I broke 100 hours. 8O

ditto. just needing to beef up a little more before i slaughter vayne. doubt i'll ever oust my hours on chrono cross though...not even gonna say how long i put into that game.

[Doulifée]

110 hour here. spend 2 hours yesterday gathering loot, and shit, for a bazaar item.

[OA]

65 hours and we just got to salickawood. Damn those moogles are lazy!

I agree that the mark hunting and other random side things are awesomely fun, and it's nice to have side stuff near the middle of the game rather that right before the final dungeon as most RPGs do.

great times are being had, though I want to finish up soonish and move on to zelda. Might be awhile however. :)

[Office Despot]

The Bestiary is one of my favorite sidequests ever. So much background information (and well-written, to boot). It also proves the connection between it and Vagrant Story.

[Doulifée]

Epic fight: A Good ol' fellow from FF6 DeathGaze. nice to put this monster in like that.

[Atomicfog]

Trying to get Zeromus while all my characters are level 32. I managed to get him all the way down to a little less than 1/6 health and am so close to being able to beat him. Any tips?

[Office Despot]

I broke 100 hours. 8O

I'm sorta pissy that the Strahl is usable almost near the very end of the game..

Most of the anchor points are less useful than the warp crystal locations.

[megadave]

Why the hell are all the characters blonde? I think square is associated with nazis.

[Petara]

Why the hell are all the characters blonde? I think square is associated with nazis.

I think someone just wishes he was blonde...besides, ashe's hair is like silverish kinda maybe? ...ok she's blonde.

[PriZm]

So anybody else think Omega is impossible :lol: ?

[Audity]

no

170 hours

[Kiyosuki]

Have any of you guys tried the so called "Enforced Class challenge"?

Its a challenge where you start a new game, and build each character as a distinct "class" or job by allowing them certain weapons, abilities, and stat modifiers on the board and restricting them access to certain others in order to make them all unique.

Like if you made a character a "Ninja", a character could use motes (as Ninjutsu) and some limited Green/Arcane magic (the enfeebles like blind etc). They'd have access to all Ninja Swords, and up to a certain level of Daggers.

Or if you made someone a "Red Mage", they'd have access to all magic forms except summoning, but they'd only be able to go up to 2nd or 3rd level magic spells (I can't remember off the top of my head.). They'd also be able to use swords, but no shields and only a certain number of magic and physical augments to make them the jack of all trades but master of none.

There's a whole FAQ for it over at Gamefaqs. I think some of the restrictions are a bit too rigid, but hey it is self enforced so you can probably make an exception or two. Generally though I think I may try it, it sounds sort of cool. Challenging.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I think it's a shame that the classes aren't defined though. I can see how people can try the classes deal, but I don't think it'd matter much. I try to specialize a bit with my characters, but they end up being all-masterful mage knights.

[Doulifée]

i just take a look at the faqs. The problem i see is your forced to take some license who are not defined for your class to progress, because magic license are not contiguous for exemple. And the augment? they are scattered, how can you take what you need without unlocking something else.

[Xerol Oplan]

I think it's a shame that the classes aren't defined though. I can see how people can try the classes deal, but I don't think it'd matter much. I try to specialize a bit with my characters, but they end up being all-masterful mage knights.

It's a self-imposed challenge, sort of like a FF7 no-materia game I guess, although that's much more restrictive. (I guess the equivalant would be no licence board, but that's more equivalant to an FFX no-anything challenge.) Thinking about it, it's probably closer to one of the FFT challenges, like "all squires" or "Ramza only". I wouldn't even think about trying it until I've beat the game once or twice though.

And no licence board would be a VERY interesting challenge - I'm guessing you'd probably want to just level up a lot, and make sure you've got plenty of usable items. Having only two gambit slots would make things more difficult, unless you used "Wait" mode (I don't, it's just more fun that way I think).

[Avatar of Justice]

Did anyone else think the Pharos at Ridorna was the most ridiculously long dungeon ever in a game? I just realized last night that with an average part level of 53, I might not be able to just walk into all the last hunts, Ultima, and last Esper and own them. Not sure how much time I want to spend leveling to face them though.

[kamoh]

The Pharos is next for me (I'm on the first floor), and I've got my first team at level 50...maybe I should get those exp*2 accessories soon (already have every magick, augment, and technick licensed).

[Avatar of Justice]

I should probably get those experience * 2 accessories. This is what I get for not paying much attention to the accesories in shops....

[Old Man Time]

Wow, you guys are a lot farther than I am... level 32 lol. But then, I've been busy with homework and shtuff. I have the lp * 2 accessory on all my chars, so like what level will I be at when I get everything on the license board? I am just wondering if I should do the exp * 2 accessory instead...

[Petara]

Oh, man... the 3rd person inverted left/right camera control has royally screwed up my FPS skills. I just rented Call of Duty 3 and I keep looking the wrong goddamn way. It's pretty frustrating

[Avatar of Justice]

Wow, you guys are a lot farther than I am... level 32 lol. But then, I've been busy with homework and shtuff. I have the lp * 2 accessory on all my chars, so like what level will I be at when I get everything on the license board? I am just wondering if I should do the exp * 2 accessory instead...

Depends on if you're trying to totally max out the license board. I wish I'd focused on level more, since I'm restricting characters to certain kinds of weapons/armor/abilities. I've been buying the licenses with my extra points for a bunch of armor I'll never equip.

[UnforgivingEdges]

If this (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133515) is true, I think it makes a pretty strong case that FF12 and the FFT games are, in fact, connected.

[Cyanide cr MK]

Ok Ive looked all over the place and I cannot find the Zodiak Spear in the Necrohol of Nabudis. I did NOT open the forbidden chests, and I know its in the Cloister of the Highborn.

Someone please help!

[sindri]

Enter a room with 16 chests arranged neatly in a 4x4 manner. One of them contains a zodiac spear while the others are filled with knot of rust's.

The chest with the spear is very close to the room's entrance.

---------
|o o o o|
|o o o o|
|o o o o|
|o x o o|
---| |---
entrance

the spear is in the chest marked x.

[Cyanide cr MK]

see I found that info on another site a few minutes ago, i opened all the chests, all knots of rust. im positive i didnt open any of the treasures i wasnt supposed to.

do you have to open the one you marked with an X first?

if so, do the chests respawn? I hope so 8O 8O 8O

and thank you, by the way!

[Xaleph]

I could be wrong - but it seems in this game, each chest has a % chance to drop certain things - even the ones that are pretty darn important (like the z spear).

So if you open it once, and don't get what you want - reset your game and try it over again (yeah it sucks, but I don't want to have some fricking holy mote).

[Petara]

Yeah, that's about the size of it. Kinda lame that there's always a chance you'll get something useless. Having all the grimoires and killing alot of things is a safe bet for getting some real nice goodies.

[sindri]

You get a knot of rust from all the chests? That's weird. It is true that there exists a %chance to give certain items in FF12's treasure chests, but the chests in this room are different. 15 of them has a 100% chance to drop knot of rust, and 1 of them has a 100% chance to drop a zodiac spear. They can't even give gil since chance of that happening is 0%.

I don't think the order of which you open the chests matter. At least no note about it is written in my game guidebook. I don't know what kind of problem you're having... but loading an earlier savegame to try it again might help.

Just a hunch, but I don't think the chests would actually respawn. :wink: If you can't reload the game to an earlier point then better start teaching Basch how to use a katana.

[Cyanide cr MK]

Well Ill try tomorrow to see if they respawn. Im at the last point before the final battles, and Im not too worried about being able to beat them. still, zodiak spear would be nice for trying to get zodiark. oh well!

Hey another question. how do I get good things from Rabanastre Muthru Bazaar, like Bubble Belt and Bravery and whatnot? Or how do I buy things from inside the airship? Hunts?

Thanks in advance.

[Fionn]

The items you can purchase depend on your clan rank. Just finish more hunts, and you can get Bravery & Faith.

EDIT: I'm not sure at what point you get these spells, I just did without them.

[Ayres]

Well Ill try tomorrow to see if they respawn. Im at the last point before the final battles, and Im not too worried about being able to beat them. still, zodiak spear would be nice for trying to get zodiark. oh well!

Hey another question. how do I get good things from Rabanastre Muthru Bazaar, like Bubble Belt and Bravery and whatnot? Or how do I buy things from inside the airship? Hunts?

Thanks in advance.
Alright guys.

Your Zodiac Spear is gonna be in that chest already mentioned. If you didn't find it, you screwed up somewhere and opened a chest you shouldn't have. Now, the only place you'll find it is in the Henne Mines in a secret location that takes a minute and a half to get to and has only a 1/100 chance of being there. This equals roughly 5 hours of nonstop searching to get the spear. I do not recommend.

Getting good things in the Muthru Bazaar (I assume the "clan" bazaar) is achieved through completing mark hunting. For every new title you recieve, new things are available to purchase at the Clan Provider.

Bravery, Faith, and other strong magic only become available after you progress the game to a certain point. However, there are a few instances that only one merchant will sell a strong Magic (i.e. "Telekenisis" from the Benkamy merchant inside the Necrohol of Nabudis or "Ardor" from the bangaa merchant in the furthest north section of the Barheim Passage). If you can't find the magic you're looking for, it's probably not available to you yet.

To buy things from the airships, you have to have progressed far enough in the game that you use the Aerodome. Choose any flight other than "private" and pick the first option. There are 2 "bars" where you can buy simple items from. There's nothing of value on the airships unless you're completing the hunt associated with it.

As for Hunts, there are a ton them. 40 I believe, so if you have a question on one of them I can help you out. You gotta be specific.

[Fionn]

Bravery, Faith, and other strong magic only become available after you progress the game to a certain point.

Bravery and Faith are the only spells that are only sold in the Muthru Bazaar. Other items of note that can be bought there are the Bubble Belt (Equip: Bubble), and the Nihopalaoa (Equip: Reverse).

The Muthru Bazaar shop's inventory depends on the clan rank of the player.

[Cyanide cr MK]

thank you much for clearing that up

[Doulifée]

Nihopalaoa (Equip: Reverse).


Not really it just reverse the effect of potion. if an ennemy kick you, you still received damage.

[PriZm]

Well Ill try tomorrow to see if they respawn. Im at the last point before the final battles, and Im not too worried about being able to beat them. still, zodiak spear would be nice for trying to get zodiark. oh well!

Hey another question. how do I get good things from Rabanastre Muthru Bazaar, like Bubble Belt and Bravery and whatnot? Or how do I buy things from inside the airship? Hunts?

Thanks in advance.

I think that, to get the zodiac spear, you have to NOT be wearing Diamond Armlet in the Nabudis chests. However, you have to be wearing it if you want the spear from the Henne Mines.

[WesPip]

Nihopalaoa (Equip: Reverse).


Not really it just reverse the effect of potion. if an ennemy kick you, you still received damage.
I'd like to point out, if it hasn't been done yet, where the true usefulness of that item lies.
If the user uses, say, an Echo Herb on the enemy, the enemy will become Silenced [with a higher hit %'age than actually casting Silence, noless]. And yes, Remedies DO work. Of course, though, if they're immune, they're immune.

[Reshapable]

Spectacular game in near every aspect.

However it loses major points on character importance, as neither of the supposed main characters are very good. This isn't exactly a spoiler, though if you are looking to be extra cautious skip the rest of this post. Vaan is NEVER important. He has no place in the story, never develops one, and Ashe doesn't do much better. Technically, her character is important. Technically her character develops. Technically, I care. She's a waste of space and an eyesore in every way except...well... in an ironic twist, visually.

If you ask me, the self-dubbed leading man REALLY is the main character, as he is awesome at the beginning, awesome throughout the middle, and awesome at the end.

*SPOILERS*

Almost exactly the same thing can be said for the main villains. Vayne is an eyesore in every way except for the way other people talk about him. He's a badass in theory, but only there. The occurians are an enormous wtf, they've barely any plot attendance themselves, and don't get me started on the judges. They start cool. They carry on as cool. When you see their faces, they lose points. When you beat them silly, they lose a lot of points. When seemingly the strongest one turns out to be a family grudging little boy with less original thought than his kiss ass brother, they lose almost all remaining points.

Again in an ironic twist, the leading man's father turns out to be the best villain (and so good that he really saves the whole thing near solo).

Beyond characters, my only complaint was that the end seemed a bit rushed, as there is so very very little finality to it. What happened to Venat (Dare we presume it died?)? What are the Occurians going to do next? It's not as if there's quite enough to make a real sequel on (When a sequel is on a "lesser" system, it's not really a sequel, more of a spin-off). Also, are we to assume Rozzaria just...resumed its normal routine of having little to nothing to do with the rest of the world?

*END SPOILERS*

I actually find a lot of my problems with this game to be shared by surprisingly the most commonly listed other favorite in this thread, FFT. That game had major character and ending issues as well (though not nearly as badly as 12 on characters, and much worse on ending). Odd no?

[I-n-j-i-n]

FFXII simply has no real story. That's the story.

I don't mean to be negative or positive about it. Because I can't critique what's not there. And something that completely derives from the basic story principles from Lord of the Rings and Star Wars... well, it's not worth commenting. Not to mention that the characters basically talk in cliches and nothing else. Even the supposed banter between Vaan and Penelo and others are portrayed as background chatter. I think that's a pretty big disservice for an RPG. Maybe in an action game, we don't need to hear the extra quips and dialog in order to connect with the characters. Different story for RPGs.

I hope FFXIII at least has a semblance of a story. But SquareEnix has been pretty lax with their RPGs having any story worth discussing about since Sakaguchi left.

PS- Currently hunting and collecting and searching for Tournesol. Biggest pain/work for a single item in a long time I can remember. But at least Square left something in there for high levelers to work for.

[Cyanide cr MK]

Anyone know where to consistantly get megalixers?

[Evilhead]

I think this game took after a lot of the Western RPGs. Most JRPGs are extremely character/story based, while with American RPGs you are often a standard group of adventurers in a big world with big things going on. That's kind of how FFXII is. You are involved with the story, but you are free to roam and RPG it up. I just wish there were some more side quests like the mini games featured in other FF games (chocobo raising/racing, card came, blitzball, etc). The hunts are nice, but I would have liked to see a bit more variety. Still, a great game, and a great step forward for the series.

[linkspast]

I got this yesterday and have since then have played about 16 hours. And loving it, Except when you play for along time then die, and realize that you have not saved for 2hrs...... which is why I am here, and not playing...

[Old Man Time]

I think this game took after a lot of the Western RPGs. Most JRPGs are extremely character/story based, while with American RPGs you are often a standard group of adventurers in a big world with big things going on. That's kind of how FFXII is. You are involved with the story, but you are free to roam and RPG it up. I just wish there were some more side quests like the mini games featured in other FF games (chocobo raising/racing, card came, blitzball, etc). The hunts are nice, but I would have liked to see a bit more variety. Still, a great game, and a great step forward for the series.

I personally like the hunts a lot more than blitzball, which really got boring after you've leveled up enough to win every game 10-0. I actually like FFXII's story for a while, until I came to the same conclusion that you guys have come to, that being that, after spending about 15 hours doing hunts and stuff and not being involved with the plot, now I really don't care about it and am having a hard time getting back into the story. It really is a big step down compared to ten or one of the playstation games...

[linkspast]

How do I get Giza Plains to change from dry to rain? or is there even a way?

[Soma]

How do I get Giza Plains to change from dry to rain? or is there even a way? I think after a certain point in the game it just stops raining there, correct me if i'm wrong.

[Evilhead]

I think after a certain point in the game it just stops raining there, correct me if i'm wrong.

Yeah maybe after you do Raithwall's tomb?

[Brycepops]

How do I get Giza Plains to change from dry to rain? or is there even a way?

It takes time. I'm not sure how long, but you might end up sitting around for an hour or so waiting for the weather to change. There's a guy you can talk to at the south gate that'll give you an indication as to when the weather will change.

[Cyanide cr MK]

Places to consistantly get Megalixers anyone? I made the stupid mistake of using them when I was getting Ultima, and I cant kill the Undying. I dont have bubble , bravery or faith so..... yeah.

[Atomicfog]

It takes time. I'm not sure how long, but you might end up sitting around for an hour or so waiting for the weather to change. There's a guy you can talk to at the south gate that'll give you an indication as to when the weather will change.

Happened after the Gilsnapper mark for me.


Also:

The Gilgamesh battle was epic and pwnt (like many have already said). Fucking such an awesome surprise.

First time I fought him I didn't realize that if I just leveled my two level 54s up to 55 he wouldn't be able to use any of his gay moves, but then second time I pwnt. I was pissed first time though because I got so close (See pic) :P. Currently I have three level 60s and three level 44s and I am at the Ancient City of Giruvegan. I always to all the marks and all exploring before I go on with the storyline, and my characters are power houses. All the enemies in the main story are pie.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/679/fckinggeyyyyybn2.jpg

[Blueearth]

This may have been discussed earlier, but anyone want to share strategies on Gil Snapper? I had him down to a sliver, then he went into a disablega and blizzaga rage, and yeah I was toast. I think that I need to equip everyone with black belts to prevent Disable. Thoughts anyone?

(massive bump)

[WesPip]

^
I'd say just keep a guy or two out of range for that last bit, so they survive. I used to have that problem too.

And yeah, Gilgamesh...was a much harder fight than it should've been. Y'see, he was almost dead, and I was Nihopolaoa [or whatever]'ing him with X-Potions, and I saw an Elixer sitting there. Figured it wouldn't KILL him, but do 9,999 damage.
Seems I was wrong.
Seems it STILL FULLY HEALED HIM.
So I basically fought him twice, only the second time he didn't have Enkidu, had his almost-dead-stat-boosts, and my guys weren't at full.
It was not friendly.
However, the thing with the sword after you beat him was pretty epic.

Also, I now have Genji Gloves and a Masamune. This makes me happy.

[Dj_Vitality]

Gilgamesh the seondtime is lame. Enkidu rapes your face hard when he is just sitting there, but when hes buffed, its lamer. Put him to sleep, or cast oil and spam Firaga or Fira. Thats the best way to own him. If you melee him then you're asking to lose.


Yeah, The hunts are fun, especially if you need the money. But Farming seems to be the way to go to get it. Stillshrine is the best place, all the flesh from the undead. Also there is an infinite loop going on there, if you can get the nelgamuur to spawn. Its great stuff. except if you have a guest. then its lame. :P

[Global-Trance]

Currently on Yiazmat hunt. I have only taken away 1 million of it's slightly over 50 million hit points. This is going to take FOREVER.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Yiazmat is the biggest waste of time ever. "hay, let's slap 50 f'n health bars onto this boss!".

At least it's good fodder for the ultimate weapons.

[Blueearth]

So with a Niloapahoa (sp?) Gil Snapper was cake. I mean he was literally dead within a minute. That's the best item ever.. but do you guys think it's too cheap? I just beat Mindflayer and Atomos and I have about 16 or so hunts done, with chars at 35.

[WesPip]

It would've been cheap if it actually told you how to use it. If you don't bother looking it up, it's so useless.
Also, know that elixer+niho doesn't...work. I fully healed Gilgamesh once he was almost dead. ;.;
[worth repeating, I figure]

[Dj_Vitality]

Yeah, I don't like the Niho Acc. Its kinda lame, since I use Items when Im in a pinch, and when they kill me faster, its hard. if you want to heal people, use the magic. Magic comes back to you when you take damage, when you deal damage, when you take magic damage, when you deal magic damage, and when you walk. Magic is better to heal with all around. But like I said, nothing beats a good x-potion with Phesant Netsuke Acc.

[WesPip]

Yeah, I don't like the Niho Acc. Its kinda lame, since I use Items when Im in a pinch, and when they kill me faster, its hard. if you want to heal people, use the magic. Magic comes back to you when you take damage, when you deal damage, when you take magic damage, when you deal magic damage, and when you walk. Magic is better to heal with all around. But like I said, nothing beats a good x-potion with Phesant Netsuke Acc.
The real strength of the Niho, though, is the status items. Part of what helped me kill Gilgamesh despite fully healing him was the speed with which I killed Enkidu, via Niho+Remedy on him. Gave the poor little guy a buttload of status effects. I found myself switching accessories in mid-battle a lot for that one anyways, 'cause I got so damned sick of Disable, so I'd switch between my Genji Gloves and Black Belt. What a hassle.

[Bobwillis]

I would give anything for equipment switch macros ala FFXI for FFXIII

[linkspast]

I would give anything for equipment switch macros ala FFXI for FFXIII

What?
13 is not even out.

[Dj_Vitality]

He prolly ment XII :P And I never thought about the Remedy. That works too huh? Wow...must suck to be that poor dog. Well, This morning, I beat the game...Just so you know, "The Undying" is almost as good as the Thaxdera hunt. >.> It was soo easy. maybe it had something to do with the fact that all my charas were lv.66. ^_^

666 666 666 666 >.> No, nothing to do with it. ^_^ so anyway, im just gonna beat all the hunts...get through that stupid footrace with Rekken, and do some other random things like get the last three espers I need. Not to hard, just a little time consuming...not to mention Omega Mark XII. that will be fun....lv.99 creature...>.>

[Bobwillis]

What?
13 is not even out.

I know. FF 12 really needed equipment macros. That's why I'm hoping 13 has them.

[Oddllama]

I'm a little disappointed that the characters become rather identical once you get to the end of the game and your LP becomes rather meaningless.

[linkspast]

Ok So can any one tell me why I killed the Earth Tyrant. I thought it was a hunt.. But I was wrong, I know some one told me to kill it I just cant remember who.

[Bobwillis]

You killed it to fill out your bestiary.

[Blueearth]

You killed it to fill out your bestiary.


I find it very funny that I am 65 hours into the game with less than half my bestiary filled. Does that count the 80 rare monsters? I've only run across 7 or 8. My favorite so far is Wary Wolf, because of the name, the ease of locating him, and the fact that he drops prime pelts and arcana.

[linkspast]

So I got just one more Question thats been bugging me.

So this loot I earn I sell it... except for the stuff I get from boss fights or otherwise seem like they could be used later in the game... So dose keeping this loot help me at all, or is it there to sell.

[Dj_Vitality]

Its there to sell. When you sell loot to the Stores, new items pop up in the Bazzar. like when you sell 5 behemoth Steaks, the bazzar sells you 50 x-potions for 4444 gill. some stuff like that is good, Or you can pick up the MASAMUNE from the bazzar for 2 Gemsteel, 2 orihalcum, and 2 mallets. its just items you find from monsters, which is why you try to fill out the biastary. In the bistary, it says what some people drop, in blue letters. its really cool, or something it can be a pain in the butt. like getting Omega Badge (beating Omega mark XII), Lu Shang Bagde (Fishing side quest) and the GodSlayers Badge (for beating Yiazmat) To get the stupid Wyrmhero blade...(EVasion +50, Str +130)

[The King of All Kupos]

Very impressed with the game. Honestly, I hadn't really been looking forward to it that much. The only reason I ever discovered how good it was (and subsequently bought it) was because a friend of mine happened to rent it. Lucky me.

I find it annoying that I've been going along for like a month thinking that the concurrences from the quickening chains were elementally based, only to find out earlier today that they're not. Y'know, even though they look like they should be and they are when the espers use them against you as spells.

[linkspast]

Yeha I had 3 major problems with the quickening.
1. There cheap.
2. They become Repetitive and you cannot skip them.
D. And I just dislike the way the work.

[I-n-j-i-n]

For one, Quickenings are not really cheap. Because they are only useful for maybe three or four boss battles until you become so overtly powerful that you may as well keep using your mana instead of repleting them instantly.

The battle system in FFXII pretty much is broke. After level 30 or level 40, it's all about exploiting the system.

If you want true exploitation, Haste + Berserk on a single character is good enough.

[WesPip]

^
A good part of that is true. I used to use Quickenings with my weaker characters plus two good ones [for a total of 4 quickening combos] to hunt marks. Now I just wail on them til they die. Quickenings are pretty much useless. Espers have been since I got my first one. Bah.

Or you can pick up the MASAMUNE from the bazzar for 2 Gemsteel, 2 orihalcum, and 2 mallets.
If only you could also get more than one set of Genji Gloves...

[Dj_Vitality]

yeah, stupid Gilgamesh...."I have fought opponets harder than you! *Pulls out Bustersword*" WTF?

[Petara]

I used my espers like... 3 times maybe?

[Oddllama]

If you want true exploitation, Haste + Berserk on a single character is good enough.
+ Bravery


Also - I think Espers only helped me in two battles. I used one strategically against another, stronger esper which worked out pretty well, actually.

[Blueearth]

Just outta curiosity, what level have you guys downed Zalera at? I was pretty proud of myself, beat it at level 38/39 ish.

[Arek the Absolute]

So, by the generosity of Atomicfog, to who wish to give a major thank you : D, I have no obtained this game. I have no ps2 to play it on at this time, considering that my friend is borrowing it and took it up to Napa.
When I get it back, I will be playing this game non-stop, that is if it is as good as everyone states that it is.

[AarowSwift]

I was really dissappointed in the Espers. I found them utterly useless. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I tend to use Summons in games when I need help against a really tough enemy, but when I summon the FF 12 espers, they either died before I could even do anything to buff them up, or my lone party character got taken out before the Summon could cause any real damage. Am I alone in feeling the Espers were seriously gimped?

[Blueearth]

I was really dissappointed in the Espers. I found them utterly useless. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I tend to use Summons in games when I need help against a really tough enemy, but when I summon the FF 12 espers, they either died before I could even do anything to buff them up, or my lone party character got taken out before the Summon could cause any real damage. Am I alone in feeling the Espers were seriously gimped?

Belias was overpowered when I first got him, but after that, they haven't done a whole hell of a lot.

[Thalzon]

Espers are indeed weak and likely weren't meant for getting you out of a serious bind which, yeah, really defeats their purpose. Who's going to waste time summoning espers to fight normal battles?

Even then, I tried using Exodus against one of those wyrms and a couple of ordinary enemies on the Cerobi Steppe. I spent most of my time healing him with X-Potions because he was getting totally raped, and all he was doing was using Comet over and over. Bah.

Don't even get me started on using Shemhazai against a mob of headless assholes in Pharos.

[Dj_Vitality]

Yeah, you use them for their ultimate attacks, and not for their attacking prowess. ^_^ Because Meteor or Final Asenction (which hits for about 60,000) is good for you aginst bosses...Using Espers for their ultimate attack, and you use quickenings to rape with Black Hole, then its ok to use that kind of stuff aginst things like ....Yiazmat, or Omega, Or Hell Wyrm. But whatever. :D also there is a way to break the game if you look online hard enough...I mean, like...BREAK IT. auto leveling and everything. Its kinda crazy.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Espers were obviously broken. They have NEVER been useful. Even against smaller mobs that I tried using against, they actually die from small, weak enemies before they reach limit break. Why bother wasting entire mana meters to beat up on weak enemies you may or may not see the limitbreak display by the Espers?

And 60,000 damage? That is like... nothing. Never worth it since you always need the mana for higher calibur bosses. You'll understand once you get there.

[Dj_Vitality]

Yeah, I know it does nothing to THings like Yiazmat, and Omega, and Hell Wyrm. But still anime looks good. but thats all it is. Animation. :D I personally like Haste, Beserk, Bravery, and A Ring of Renewal. Never have to worry about healing, and YOu do 9999 a hit ^_^ Always good stuff.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I think the official phrase is "Sailor Moon attack scenes". Which is hilariously appropriate.

[Blueearth]

Quick Q for ya guys - where's a good place to get some cash around level 40ish? I'm saving for Canopic Jar.

[Dinobot 2]

Well Iv'e been playing this game for about 85 hours or so. One thing I hate about it is that it's too much about doing and not enough story telling. It's like Tactics alot of course but tactics was way more detailed in the stroy aspect. Right now I just finish battling Dr. Cid for the first time and I'm exploring some land. My guys are at level 43 right now and I know I have to at least gain 10 more levels to have a good shot at beating the game. I have the guide so I know I'm pretty close. Iv'e never played such a long game. I'm pretty sure I'll go over the 100 hour mark.

FFXIII better be a different kind of game though. People say X had too much watching. But I liked it. Very character and story detailed. What X rally need was more to do. XII took care of that.

[Dinobot 2]

Quick Q for ya guys - where's a good place to get some cash around level 40ish? I'm saving for Canopic Jar.

I'd like to know that one myself. I have so much to buy.

[Thalzon]

For a game about war and having a good handful of interesting villains, there is a surprising lack of conflict in the story. It's all, "Go here and do this to obtain Nethicite-related Item/Information X" and little else. In that regard, FF12 is very boring and downright garbage when compared to the more involving stories in past FFs.

[Dinobot 2]

For a game about war and having a good handful of interesting villains, there is a surprising lack of conflict in the story. It's all, "Go here and do this to obtain Nethicite-related Item/Information X" and little else. In that regard, FF12 is very boring and downright garbage when compared to the more involving stories in past FFs.

I know. I haven't had any of my characters even meet Vayne. So far at least. I bet not until the end.

[AarowSwift]

I can honestly say FF 12 is the best FF I’ve played (played 7 and up), but it does really point out the biggest weakness of these games, that being the lack of story/character content. You heard right, I say every FF game I’ve played suffered from this, but previous games distracted the player from this fact via two decoys: Characters with bizarre back-stories and convoluted story telling.

In my opinion, every FF character had a shallow personality and characters in game never got to know each other through interaction, rather, they spelled out their motives and feelings to the player during fancy, and often forced, cut scenes. To fill this personality vacuum, many characters typically had crazy back-stories with a heavy helping of angst to grab the player’s interest and sympathy.

The stories are always the same and effectively simple, but are bulked up with convoluted story telling and a zillion oddball subplots to overcompensate for the basic plot’s simplicity.

FF12 really had none of that. Characters were relatively normal and the story was told in a straightforward manner with few diversions. As a result, it felt rather barren. Plenty of things happened in the story, but without all of the fat and additives, it seemed to lack substance.


I really don’t want the storytelling to go back to the previous styles, however. Rather, it would be nice if
SquareEnix put a little effort into developing characters with more than 2 dimensional personalities and finding ways for them to express those personalities during the game without resorting to five + minute cut scenes. In game dialog, which other games have used to great effect, would be one possibility.


Edit: Gah, what happened to my text's spacing and size? Can't fix it either. :P

[The Tiger]

I can honestly say FF 12 is the best FF I’ve played (played 7 and up), but it does really point out the biggest weakness of these games, that being the lack of story/character content. You heard right, I say every FF game I’ve played suffered from this, but previous games distracted the player from this fact via two decoys: Characters with bizarre back-stories and convoluted story telling.

In my opinion, every FF character had a shallow personality and characters in game never got to know each other through interaction, rather, they spelled out their motives and feelings to the player during fancy, and often forced, cut scenes. To fill this personality vacuum, many characters typically had crazy back-stories with a heavy helping of angst to grab the player’s interest and sympathy.

The stories are always the same and effectively simple, but are bulked up with convoluted story telling and a zillion oddball subplots to overcompensate for the basic plot’s simplicity.

FF12 really had none of that. Characters were relatively normal and the story was told in a straightforward manner with few diversions. As a result, it felt rather barren. Plenty of things happened in the story, but without all of the fat and additives, it seemed to lack substance.


I really don’t want the storytelling to go back to the previous styles, however. Rather, it would be nice if
SquareEnix put a little effort into developing characters with more than 2 dimensional personalities and finding ways for them to express those personalities during the game without resorting to five + minute cut scenes. In game dialog, which other games have used to great effect, would be one possibility.


Edit: Gah, what happened to my text's spacing and size? Can't fix it either. :P


A red lion/wolf that lives with hippies, loves the planet, has a tail that is on fire, has feathers as weapons, has a wicked cool scar, super awesome tattoos, and spent a good part of the game with an oedipus complex is damn good enough for me.

[AarowSwift]

A red lion/wolf that lives with hippies, loves the planet, has a tail that is on fire, has feathers as weapons, has a wicked cool scar, super awesome tattoos, and spent a good part of the game with an oedipus complex is damn good enough for me.

There are of course exceptions. Nanaki was pretty well developed, easily the best character all around in FF7. I can't name any real stand outs in 8. Freya had potential in 9 but it never developed into anything, and Auron was pretty cool in 10. But each game should have more than one or two standouts. Also, notice a trend here? All of the best characters are of the "old warrior" archetype (Basch falls in this category too, and is one of the better characters in 12). SquareEnix handles them pretty well..or at least, better than angsty boy/hyper boy/hyper girl/princess girl/mysterious guy/serious girl/cute kid/throw away character, which pretty much covers their usual range of character types.

[Dj_Vitality]

Quick Q for ya guys - where's a good place to get some cash around level 40ish? I'm saving for Canopic Jar.

Need cash fast? Check into cash! no, really, Zombies are a good way to farm. Festering Flesh, Forbidden Flesh. Zarinthian Caverns is the best. About 10 of them spawn where adrammeloch was. Or if you a little beffier (and have 1000 needles) try the deadlands. They drops good stuff too near the summit of hope with the Robolon Hunt. but be careful. Zombies are the best way to farm. After level 60 though, Wyrms in the Cerrobi Steppe are the best. Wyrm Liver for 1468 gil? x99? Lots o cash. also. steal from things all the time.

[Critical Hit]

I loaded up the game today, played a bit, and opened the area map (select button) to check some things out. However, the game would not let me close it. I couldn't get out of the screen by any means short of reseting the console. I checked all of my other save files, and the same problem is there as well. I'm a good 55 hours in, and this has never occured before. Has anyone here heard of/experienced this before?

[Old Man Time]

I loaded up the game today, played a bit, and opened the area map (select button) to check some things out. However, the game would not let me close it. I couldn't get out of the screen by any means short of reseting the console. I checked all of my other save files, and the same problem is there as well. I'm a good 55 hours in, and this has never occured before. Has anyone here heard of/experienced this before?

no, and i'm about 95 hours in. that's odd.

[Blueearth]

Need cash fast? Check into cash! no, really, Zombies are a good way to farm. Festering Flesh, Forbidden Flesh. Zarinthian Caverns is the best. About 10 of them spawn where adrammeloch was. Or if you a little beffier (and have 1000 needles) try the deadlands. They drops good stuff too near the summit of hope with the Robolon Hunt. but be careful. Zombies are the best way to farm. After level 60 though, Wyrms in the Cerrobi Steppe are the best. Wyrm Liver for 1468 gil? x99? Lots o cash. also. steal from things all the time.

And I noticed that you can sometimes steal bloody necklaces from those zombies which sell for 1500 :P

[Dj_Vitality]

Yeah. and Enough of the necklaces also net you the Niho Accessory wihch was what we were talking about earlier.

[Blueearth]

Yeah. and Enough of the necklaces also net you the Niho Accessory wihch was what we were talking about earlier.


Yup I got one of those early. Very useful..

[The Mutericator]

I can honestly say FF 12 is the best FF I’ve played (played 7 and up), but it does really point out the biggest weakness of these games, that being the lack of story/character content. You heard right, I say every FF game I’ve played suffered from this, but previous games distracted the player from this fact via two decoys: Characters with bizarre back-stories and convoluted story telling.

In my opinion, every FF character had a shallow personality and characters in game never got to know each other through interaction, rather, they spelled out their motives and feelings to the player during fancy, and often forced, cut scenes. To fill this personality vacuum, many characters typically had crazy back-stories with a heavy helping of angst to grab the player’s interest and sympathy.

The stories are always the same and effectively simple, but are bulked up with convoluted story telling and a zillion oddball subplots to overcompensate for the basic plot’s simplicity.

FF12 really had none of that. Characters were relatively normal and the story was told in a straightforward manner with few diversions. As a result, it felt rather barren. Plenty of things happened in the story, but without all of the fat and additives, it seemed to lack substance.


I really don’t want the storytelling to go back to the previous styles, however. Rather, it would be nice if
SquareEnix put a little effort into developing characters with more than 2 dimensional personalities and finding ways for them to express those personalities during the game without resorting to five + minute cut scenes. In game dialog, which other games have used to great effect, would be one possibility.


Edit: Gah, what happened to my text's spacing and size? Can't fix it either. :P

The character interaction is part of the reason I so loved Tales of Symphonia - all the optional Skit scenes where the characters would play out events in typical anime fashion ("Don't you know how to think, Sheena? Or is your chest the only part that's well-developed?" - Zelos). Great character interaction on the whole, though the storyline itself was considerably less involved.

[Blueearth]

Oh I have a question! *edit make that 2 q's* What's an effective Poaching setup? Just turn on everyone's gambit and make sure that they poach at HP crit? And then I have gotta find this OST, nice music. Especially Westersands...

[yangfeili]

The character interaction is part of the reason I so loved Tales of Symphonia - all the optional Skit scenes where the characters would play out events in typical anime fashion

That was the problem I had with ToS: true, it had lots of character interaction, but it was eye-rollingly bad character interaction. I very nearly permanently shut the game off in protest right before the final boss battle after listening to the awful dialogue ("Discrimination is in the heart!") I like for my games to be games, not misguided and poorly executed efforts at social commentary by writers who clearly lack the talent to adequately address the subject matter.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Also, "convoluted stories" are what makes JRPGs and a lot of Japanese games with vague and mysterious sets of circumstances and stories.

I mean, FF8 was probably one of the worst examples of it, but even then, I thought it was pretty interesting because it was so convoluted.

[Blueearth]

Yay, got my Canopic Jar. Anyone have any idea how much it increases Arcana drop rates by?

[Critical Hit]

That was the problem I had with ToS: true, it had lots of character interaction, but it was eye-rollingly bad character interaction. I very nearly permanently shut the game off in protest right before the final boss battle after listening to the awful dialogue ("Discrimination is in the heart!") I like for my games to be games, not misguided and poorly executed efforts at social commentary by writers who clearly lack the talent to adequately address the subject matter.

QFT. I had a great time playing the game a couple of times, lots of fun, yadda yadda, but the dialogue at times was pretty unbearable. BTW, since my map no longer works apparently without breaking the game (literally), does anyone know where I can find area maps (of decent quality) on teh intarwebs? I'm about to check gamefaqs, but am not too hopeful.

[Brycepops]

Yay, got my Canopic Jar. Anyone have any idea how much it increases Arcana drop rates by?

Alot. Go kill stuff and you'll see ;)

[Thalzon]

Beat the game, saw the ending. Pretty satisfying, all things considered. Started a new game, with the intention of ensuring I will never curse another foe. I will level like crazy so I'll never lose...

But I just died fighting the Flowering Cactoid. Sigh.

[Blueearth]

Beat the game, saw the ending. Pretty satisfying, all things considered. Started a new game, with the intention of ensuring I will never curse another foe. I will level like crazy so I'll never lose...

But I just died fighting the Flowering Cactoid. Sigh.

What types of things will you do in a new game that you didn't do the first time around? I'm 80 hours in and I am not sure that I would replay.

[Thalzon]

Well, besides getting things I missed and doing things in a different order (read: doing optional stuff much earlier than right before the final area), as well as getting all the summons and all the marks except for the absolutely crazy ones, as well as getting the mighty Zodiac Spear, not much. It's just, I see it as the kind of game you can play through differently each time, if you so desire.

[Dj_Vitality]

Just so you know , I got the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines. ^_^ Its over by the Zodiark Esper. Diamond armlet, and a 5% chance it shows. can't beat those odds haha. But yeah, its there anyway so don't worry about opening chests. hell...thats one more elixir that you have in your pocket.

[Thalzon]

I think, throughout the 90 hours of my last playthrough, I used one Elixir... And that was fighting the final boss. I can afford to leave one behind.

[AarowSwift]

In reference to Tales of Symphonia, I found that particular method of character interaction a bit stiff and yeah, the characters themselves were sometimes hard to bear but then, they pretty much hit all of the anime cliché’s that I just can't take anymore (well, I can, but I don't really enjoy it like I did back in my teens).

It is true, a lot of stories from Japan be they games, anime, or what have you tend to be on the convoluted side, but not all. Skies of Arcadia managed to shoot pretty straight and had wonderful characters that, while still simple, were expressed with a subtle, upbeat honesty that I found refreshing. It's one of a handful of RPGs that's aged really well for me. I still enjoy it thoroughly. FF7 - FF10 I just don't anymore. I ate them up when I was in my teens and early 20's. I replayed them a couple years ago and decided to sell the whole lot.

FF 12 on the other hand, may age much better than its predecessors, I'll have to see what I think of it when I replay it a year or so from now and even further down the road.

[WesPip]

Yay, got my Canopic Jar. Anyone have any idea how much it increases Arcana drop rates by?
You end up getting about as many Arcana as you do Pebbles.
Ie: A whole lot more than you'll EVER NEED.