View Full Version : vBulletin Forum Migration Issues
djpretzel
12-31-2006, 12:06 AM
As you may have noticed, we have (finally) implemented a new forum system here at OC ReMix, vbulletin (http://www.vbulletin.com). While phpbb, our old forum software, served us well for awhile, the lack of continuous feature additions and myriad security flaws ultimately became too problematic. In order to move OCR forward, we needed software with more features and more extensibility, and after reviewing several options, I determined that vbulletin was the best option.
We have performed a migration of all existing data from phpbb into vbulletin; avatars were lost, but you should still have your private messages and any posts that you've made as well.
We know there will be issues, especially in the next couple days, but we wanted to ring in 2007 with what we believe will be one of the most significant improvements to the site in quite awhile.
We're not quite sure that security has been entirely worked out, and some features that are enabled might need to be disabled, and vice versa, depending on how useful everyone finds them and how they affect server performance.
Please use this thread for discussing the following:
Problems you are having using the new forums (include as much detail as possible)
Questions you have about the new forums.Please do not use this thread to discuss:
Your personal opinion about the new forums.
Anything not directly related to problems or questions with the new forums.Here are some of the more substantive changes the new forums bring with them:
Mods can now ban and unban users. Please respect the forum rules.
Improved WYSIWYG editor for posting.
Thread subscription.
Lots of other good stuff... for a full list, check out www.vbulletin.com (http://www.vbulletin.com).Our plans for this migration are as follows:
We've backed up the new forum database in its current form. If anything goes terribly wrong, we will revert to the forums as of 12/30. Please make a local backup of any long posts that you'd absolutely hate to lost that you make for the next week, in case this does occur.
We'll be watching for issues and addressing them as quickly as possible for the next week. There's bound to be some growing pains - please be patient and respectful to the moderators as we try to work out the kinks.
Integration with the OC ReMix homepage and remixer/remix detail pages should be complete shortly, unless something goes wrong.
Until we are absolutely certain that vbulletin is working properly and is secure and stable, we will leave our old phpbb forums online in a read-only state.
Once all the dust clears and we're back to the status quo under the new forums, we'll begin the fun stuff - adding custom user profile fields, calendar events, etc., but until then we're focusing on the basics.Hopefully, things will go relatively smoothly, paving the way for improvements and new features in 2007. I'd like to thank all of you for making the OverClocked ReMix Forums what they are, and hope that this change will, after all is said and done, represent another positive step in the evolution of www.ocremix.org (http://www.ocremix.org).
Thanks,
Pyrion
12-31-2006, 12:45 AM
Minor issue, once I realized that locked posts can't have their messages edited. A shame since I wanted to fix my post in this thread (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5614) to point to the correct forum.
And don't links need to be underlined? Or orange as they used to be? Right now any link in a post just comes up as the same color as regular text.
When logging in the site header doesn't appear, and the thanks for logging in prompt overlaps where the site header should be.
Arek the Absolute
12-31-2006, 01:09 AM
I noticed that I am not able to mod anything in site projects. I wanted to do something in my project thread, but am unable to do what I wanted to. Then, testing to see if I am even a mod there still, I tried to post in the guideline thread Darkesword created, to which I was unsuccessful in doing.
Are site project coordinators no longer mods to that section of the forum?
Jillian Aversa
12-31-2006, 01:19 AM
Minor issue, once I realized that locked posts can't have their messages edited. A shame since I wanted to fix my post in this thread (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5614) to point to the correct forum.
Locked threads aren't supposed to be editable. Nothing wrong there! ^_~
And don't links need to be underlined? Or orange as they used to be? Right now any link in a post just comes up as the same color as regular text.
Good point. I'm sure that's customizable.
watkinzez
12-31-2006, 01:23 AM
I'm trying to restore my avatar, and I notice it only shows 10 of them at a time as compared to the list we had on the old forums. Considering the amount of avatars available, it's a bit daunting and slow. They don't even seem to be in alphabetical order. Could we get that rectified?
Smoke
12-31-2006, 01:26 AM
I'm trying to restore my avatar, and I notice it only shows 10 of them at a time as compared to the list we had on the old forums. Considering the amount of avatars available, it's a bit daunting and slow. They don't even seem to be in alphabetical order. Could we get that rectified?
At the moment, that's a low-priority thing. It will be fixed eventually.
Arek the Absolute
12-31-2006, 01:26 AM
Ya, it took me a bit to look through the video game avatars until I noticed that the new ones were not implimented yet. It is something minor, but still would be nice if it were something that could be changed.
Pyrion
12-31-2006, 01:32 AM
Yeah, I forgot that locked threads aren't supposed to be editable, and for that matter I forgot that that thread was even locked in the first place. My original intent was to edit my post in that particular thread to point to the correct forum, and I incorrectly figured that migrated posts weren't editable. That was the original "minor issue."
In my haste to salvage the other half of that post, that edit ended up grammatically FUBAR.
Ayres
12-31-2006, 02:54 AM
I notice that every post in every forum has a "report" button.
Good idea, except in UnMod. That's going to get abused VERY quickly.
avaris
12-31-2006, 02:54 AM
Encountered a lil error:
Click a remixer's name on the frontpage.
Then click to view their profile.
Then click 'forums' inbetween where it says 'home » forums » viewing profile' and it takes you back to the old phpbb2 forums.
http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/index.php
Zombie
12-31-2006, 03:07 AM
Hmm... the interface is different, I see. Not that that is a bad thing. I'm sure I'll get used to it.
Blue Magic
12-31-2006, 03:16 AM
And don't links need to be underlined? Or orange as they used to be? Right now any link in a post just comes up as the same color as regular text.
Someone probably already pointed it out, but I you scroll down to the very bottom of the page, and look at the left side, there is a "Quick Style Chooser" feature.
If you click on the "default" style, you will be able to see the links, but pretty much everything that has to do with OCR is gone though.
But I kinda like the blue theme better.
My only gripe is that it takes my puter a God awfully long time to load the pages.
Decoy Octopus
12-31-2006, 03:37 AM
Words Words Words Words Words Words Words Words Words Words Words Words Words Words Words Words Words
I'm just curious whether or not the quote formatting is inherent to vBulletin or if there is plans to return to the traditional format.
On that same note, there's no longer the quick quote, URL, bold, italics, color, or size buttons and options when making a post?
Pyrion
12-31-2006, 03:39 AM
I'm just curious whether or not the quote formatting is inherent to vBulletin or if there is plans to return to the traditional format.
On that same note, there's no longer the quick quote, URL, bold, italics, color, or size buttons and options when making a post?
There is if you enable the WYSIWYG editor in your user cp under options.
Blue Magic
12-31-2006, 03:44 AM
Also, If you are using the "Default" forum style, there is no link to take you back to OCR's main page.
Is there any way that could be fixed? :???:
And another thing...the smillies are screwed up terribly. But maybe its just my computer.
Darth Lime
12-31-2006, 03:53 AM
So thats why all the fourms where closed this morning. LOL! Sweet. OUR OWN PLACE! <3<3<3<3
The Coop
12-31-2006, 04:03 AM
Seems a number of folks are running headlong into a "too short" deal for posts. Now, to a point, I understand the 4 image limit that's in place, as it combats image bombing (though that's easy enough to get around if you have an image editing program). But exactly how short is too short for making a post?
Pyrion
12-31-2006, 04:08 AM
Ten characters, apparently.
Another minor problem.
On the main forum listing, where it shows the username of the last person to have posted there, that link doesn't point to the user's profile, but instead triggers a command to load the profile of the current last poster.
So assume there's some rapid-fire posting going on in a forum. You click the link expecting one poster's profile to show, and instead you get the profile of whoever was the last poster at the time that you clicked, which won't necessarily be the user displayed.
EDIT: This behavior is the same on the thread listing for each forum. Chalk it up as another annoying vBulletin quirk, I suppose. :/
Atomic Dog
12-31-2006, 05:36 AM
I don't know if this falls under "problems" - but something the new forums do is limit post size replies. I tried to post a PM that exceeded 5000 characters and it wouldn't let me - had to break it up into two posts with a minute delay in between.
Is this something hardwired into the forum, or is that a changeable preference?
I haven't tested one of my megaposts in PPR yet. ;)
Bahamut
12-31-2006, 05:43 AM
I think that's a vBulletin default - it will be noted though when the finetuning gets done.
Ten characters, apparently.
Lame......
EDIT
Also, for all that is good and holy, please put the user info back on the left of the posts. It's pretty gaynormous to have all that extra space between each post.
kamoh
12-31-2006, 06:04 AM
http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5669
I threadbrokeded myself. You may want to put the k'bosh on this one.
BTW I didn't break the rules...
- No thread-breaking or other activities clearly intended to disrupt a topic or exploit PHPBB so as to render topics illegible.
...at least not literally.
The Coop
12-31-2006, 06:23 AM
http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?p=190840&posted=1#post190840
I think I found a problem. Liontamer did a mod edit to a post I quoted back on the phpBB boards. But when I actually quoted it on this vB version, his edit doesn't come up in the quote. Scroll up a couple posts to see what I mean.
suzumebachi
12-31-2006, 06:23 AM
I'm having an issue with the new Buddy List thing. The OCR navigation bar is appearing on the buddy list page, making it pretty cluttered and messy and stuff.
Ayres
12-31-2006, 06:33 AM
http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?p=190840&posted=1#post190840
I think I found a problem. Liontamer did a mod edit to a post I quoted back on the phpBB boards. But when I actually quoted it on this vB version, his edit doesn't come up in the quote. Scroll up a couple posts to see what I mean.
Yeah, we're all having problems with that. It only quotes the person, and not their post. You can "fake" a quote nexus, but it's a lot of work.
DragonAvenger
12-31-2006, 02:41 PM
I don't know whether or not this is a minor detail, or if you planned it anyways, but guests can access the WIP board, which used to be locked unless you sign in.
Hellcom
12-31-2006, 03:07 PM
Not really an issue, more of a feature request now that its available. In other forums I have seen the use of spoiler tags. It seems to be custom mod though, here is what a quick google search turned up:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=105176
There might be better mods out there, this one seems to just create a black box so you have to highlight the text to view it. Other, more common ones require you to click the box in order for it to open up, which is much better IMO.
Mustin
12-31-2006, 05:48 PM
Looks great!
I'd like to see one thing added.
Next to a forum topic, you get 1, 2, 3, Last Page option to pick where you want to look.
There's a function in these boards where you can set it to 1, 2, 3,...6, 7, 8 so that you can pick from the last three pages instead of just the Last Page.
Turning that on will help us forum goers see how fast the thread is moving. I often remember that "I was on page 8" and then if the page rolls over, I can just go to page 8 by clicking 8 and not having to click Last Page and then backtrack.
Just something simple that I think most people would appreciate.
Thanks! And I hope this new board puts a stop to the spambots!
kamoh
12-31-2006, 06:00 PM
I can't change the topic, as I had feared.
This is a big issue, especially for contest-runners. I can't post deadlines, highlights, results, stuff like that. Is there any way to fix this? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.
djpretzel
12-31-2006, 06:05 PM
Looks great!
I'd like to see one thing added.
Next to a forum topic, you get 1, 2, 3, Last Page option to pick where you want to look.
There's a function in these boards where you can set it to 1, 2, 3,...6, 7, 8 so that you can pick from the last three pages instead of just the Last Page.
I looked for this option; I can control the total number of pages displayed - I set it to 8 and then lowered it to 5 - but the last page still just says last page, it doesn't list the last three pages, which I agree would be useful. I'm still learning the software, but if there's such an option, it wasn't located where it logically belonged, next to the max pages option I'm referring to. Any additional info you can provide would be appreciated.
KyleJCrb
12-31-2006, 06:49 PM
I can't change the topic, as I had feared.
This is a big issue, especially for contest-runners. I can't post deadlines, highlights, results, stuff like that. Is there any way to fix this? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.
This is also a problem for Site Project threads, as there's no way to add/change due date announcements and the like in the thread subject. It looks like vB does at least have the functionality to allow topic editing (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1143645), but according to that link, it might be buggy.
Xerol Oplan
12-31-2006, 06:51 PM
Mods can change topic titles, and I'm assuming it just needs to be figured out how to give that permission to SP mods in SP, or it's just such a low priority right now that it hasn't been done yet.
Mustin
12-31-2006, 07:02 PM
Hmm...
I could've sworn there was an option for that, but maybe not? I looked at the OUS boards and it's not set up like that.
Maybe I dreamed it.
Maybe vBull should add that.
Or maybe I'm a lion.
kamoh
12-31-2006, 07:06 PM
Mods can change topic titles...
I've got a mod in action to help me out here, but it's aggravating to run a contest or league and need the help of a mod to run everything just the right way.
Xerol Oplan
12-31-2006, 07:09 PM
Hmm...
I could've sworn there was an option for that, but maybe not? I looked at the OUS boards and it's not set up like that.
Maybe I dreamed it.
Maybe vBull should add that.
Or maybe I'm a lion.
Whether or not it's an in-box option, I'm sure it can at least be modded. But it's probably a low-priority issue and won't happen for some time.
Atomic Dog
12-31-2006, 07:55 PM
I don't know if it's been mentioned I did a cursory look at the thread and I used the new search thread feature (neat!) - but it seems like a lot of posts are showing up as unread when, in fact, they have been read.
Like, I just posted in PPR, viewed it - and in the forum page, it said it was read, but in the forum index it was showing new posts in PPR when there weren't any.
Mustin
12-31-2006, 08:24 PM
Actually, I forgot, but the "Go to first Unread" button really helps you keep track of where you were in the thread, so really, the issue I brought up isn't a big deal, djp. But adding the first five pages is nice because it'll broaden things up a bit.
Thanks for addressing my concerns!
The Damned
12-31-2006, 09:03 PM
Yeah, ditto on the whole "not being able to change the title of a thread you made" thing. I want to update the pkmn project thread, but I need to change the title as well.
Also, this caught my eye:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/The_Damned/first.jpg
Are you supposed to see your name first? I don't recall seeing this happen on any other forum running vbulletin.
Or am I getting some sort of special ting for being such a great poster!?
Radiowar
12-31-2006, 09:06 PM
everybody sees themselves first on the list
for whatever reason
Pyrion
12-31-2006, 09:12 PM
Happens on every other vBulletin forum I frequent.
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/7463/vbulletincurrentlyactivml4.png (http://imageshack.us)
suzumebachi
12-31-2006, 09:59 PM
MMmmm these forums smell good now. You smell that? That's the smell of... no spambots! HURRAH!
A quick suggestion though-- is it possible to have the names of people on your buddy list appear as a different color? The only discernable difference I have seen is a + that appears by their name in the Active Users list. Not that it would serve any real functionality, but it would be cool anyways.
Audity
01-01-2007, 06:54 AM
The user information at the top is alright, but what's really weird is that big white space in the middle of it. Does that serve any purpose? Changing it to a darker shade might look better.
Bummer
01-01-2007, 09:17 AM
Also, If you are using the "Default" forum style, there is no link to take you back to OCR's main page.
Is there any way that could be fixed? :???:
And another thing...the smillies are screwed up terribly. But maybe its just my computer.
The smilies are the vBulletin defaults, not the phpBB smilies and OCR-specific smilies we're used to.
Are we gonna add some more over the time? I've grown attached to the variety of smilies we had before.
Also, what happened with all the tag buttons you could use when you made a post?
"You have included 15 images in your message. You are limited to using 4 images so please go back and correct the problem and then continue again."
This is a burden when posting in the avatar thread. I posted 4 just now but have 11 in reserve, and it feels cumbersome to postwhore. Can the limit be lifted for that thread?
'ReaktorZ0
01-01-2007, 02:14 PM
Password issue here... if you had the " character in your password, now you'll have to escape it with a \ in order to log in.
Barns
01-01-2007, 03:35 PM
I can't login to my old forum account- Barnsalot - It's not on the member list and I can't make a new account with the same name. Help would be appreciated.
DarkeSword
01-01-2007, 04:07 PM
I can't login to my old forum account- Barnsalot - It's not on the member list and I can't make a new account with the same name. Help would be appreciated.
Uh, it most definitely is on the members list. In fact, here's the user right here:
http://www.ocremix.org/forums/member.php?u=11014
You're not banned, nor are there any visible lockouts on your account. Maybe you just forgot your password?
Barnsalot
01-01-2007, 04:40 PM
Uh, it most definitely is on the members list. In fact, here's the user right here:
http://www.ocremix.org/forums/member.php?u=11014
You're not banned, nor are there any visible lockouts on your account. Maybe you just forgot your password?
Yeah, it seems I am still on the memberlist. I just hadn't scrolled down far enough before. :(
So, I had my password reset and stuff and now I can log back in. I could have sworn that I knew my password. I guess not.
Thanks for the help DarkeSword.
mr.wholesome
01-01-2007, 06:14 PM
Would there be any chance of getting say 100 posts per page?
Seeing as a lot of topics tend to get quite long.
DarkeSword
01-01-2007, 06:26 PM
Would there be any chance of getting say 100 posts per page?
Seeing as a lot of topics tend to get quite long.
It seems to me that such an option could conceivably place undue stress on the server. Trying to return the contents of 100 posts in a single query over and over again is not as easy as a smaller number of results.
Of course, I could be just talking out of my ass.
Xerol Oplan
01-01-2007, 06:31 PM
It seems to me that such an option could conceivably place undue stress on the server. Trying to return the contents of 100 posts in a single query over and over again is not as easy as a smaller number of results.
Of course, I could be just talking out of my ass.
I think overall it would result in less total stress (since there's less overhead) since you're only executing some of the overall queries (user's info and some of the other stuff that has to be retrieved every page) once, so while a single large page would take less total time to execute than multiple smaller ones, it wouldn't be broken up like the smaller queries would be. So basically it would appear slower if someone was trying to access a page at the same time as someone trying to get a 100 post page.
mr.wholesome
01-01-2007, 06:37 PM
Aww.
Oh well,it's a minor thing anyway.Just wanted it to be the same as dogsonacid. Makes for more reading and less loading! :D
The Coop
01-01-2007, 06:57 PM
Question: Why can't I paste stuff into the posting box when writing a post? I can copy out of it, but I can't paste into it. This is rather annoying when trying to spell check, or paste in a second quote since you can no longer address multiple quote boxes within each other as simply as you could on phpBB.
Edit: This also makes posting URLs a pain in the ass.
Atomicfog
01-01-2007, 07:00 PM
Wondering if you can make it so the amount of threads on one page of a forum can be adjusted to more. Right now things get knocked off to other pages too fast.
Less Ashamed Of Self
01-01-2007, 07:45 PM
I didn't see this anywhere in my control panel options, and I appologize if this has been addressed in the last 7 pages but...
I STRONGLY prefered having the 1 2 3 ... 7 8 9 style to the new 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page style. If I return to a thread, I likely want to catch up on the last page or two... not hunt around to where I was backwards from the last page.
Is there anything I should know about this change? Is it one set in stone? Can I change it in my own preferences?
Martin Penwald
01-01-2007, 08:38 PM
Wondering if you can make it so the amount of threads on one page of a forum can be adjusted to more. Right now things get knocked off to other pages too fast.
I wondered about this, too.
LAOS: this issue has been addressed before by Mustin. No mod for vB which changes "Last page" to numbers has been found yet.
Arek the Absolute
01-01-2007, 09:00 PM
I noticed that I am not able to mod anything in site projects. I wanted to do something in my project thread, but am unable to do what I wanted to. Then, testing to see if I am even a mod there still, I tried to post in the guideline thread Darkesword created, to which I was unsuccessful in doing.
Are site project coordinators no longer mods to that section of the forum?
An issue that I really don't want to be passed up. Hopefully an answer can be given soon?
DarkeSword
01-01-2007, 09:11 PM
An issue that I really don't want to be passed up. Hopefully an answer can be given soon?
The plan for individual project moderation is still being worked out. Being a project coordinator probably won't mean you get mod powers anymore, because it's not really needed. In the meantime, if you have a pressing moderation issue for your project, just contact a mod.
Mustin
01-01-2007, 09:29 PM
Any chance we could lose the "Hot" thread thing? It's not really necessary. Especially on a big forum like this. I don't think we need the red and mocha envelopes - just one or the other. It's superfluous, dig?
Martin Penwald
01-01-2007, 09:41 PM
Any chance we could lose the "Hot" thread thing? It's not really necessary. Especially on a big forum like this. I don't think we need the red and mocha envelopes - just one or the other. It's superfluous, dig?
I concur. Me personally, I don't care whether a thread has 10 or 100 posts; if I think it's interesting, I'll read it. The different envelopes just look strange to me.
Abadoss
01-02-2007, 12:05 AM
I haven't yet seen a response to kamoh, KyleJCrb, and The Damned's comments concerning thread titles. As this affects me as well, running a competition, I'd be particularly interested in seeing that this is, at least, addressed.
Less Ashamed Of Self
01-02-2007, 12:17 AM
I wondered about this, too.
LAOS: this issue has been addressed before by Mustin. No mod for vB which changes "Last page" to numbers has been found yet.
Cool, that was pre-nap me... post-nap me can read 7 pages easy.
I can even count.
Ayres
01-02-2007, 12:29 AM
I've noticed difficulty adding names to the "Buddy List". I'll type out the name and it will claim the person cannot be found in the forum. There are no spelling errors and all accents are placed. It also doesn't work when I copy and paste the user's name. Glitch?
Mustin
01-02-2007, 02:19 AM
Super bad! Threads are lookin' good.
One last thing (haha)
What would you all think about changing that "Go to First New Post" button right next to the topic title to good old OCR orange instead of the gray colour it is now? That would help it just pop and let you know that there are new posts.
In fact, if you had that, you probably wouldn't even need the envelopes and could have more width for the posts!
Who-ah!
KyleJCrb
01-02-2007, 03:09 AM
I've noticed difficulty adding names to the "Buddy List". I'll type out the name and it will claim the person cannot be found in the forum. There are no spelling errors and all accents are placed. It also doesn't work when I copy and paste the user's name. Glitch?
This is a glitch with accents, like those found in Doulifee and anne amere's names. No idea if there's a workaround or not.
Unstable Hamster
01-02-2007, 03:23 AM
Wow, new forum, this will take some getting use to.
I've wondered if you can possibly have a custom avatar.
Mustin
01-02-2007, 04:36 AM
Great job on this - i'm lovin' it!™
Ayres
01-02-2007, 04:36 AM
This is a glitch with accents, like those found in Doulifee and anne amere's names. No idea if there's a workaround or not.
Damn.
"The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters."
That's really getting old.
KyleJCrb
01-02-2007, 06:56 AM
Actually, I just found the fix: Replace the accented character with the normal, unaccented one. Should do the trick.
SilverStar
01-02-2007, 11:28 AM
Any hope for doing something about the smacktarded behavior of the "quick reply" window? Or maybe just get rid of it entirely? I can't seem to find an option for it..
A good way to have it work, would be so you could just quickly post a reply to the thread(default at the OP, if needed), so you can actually make use of it to quickly reply to a rapidly moving topic. Otherwise, it's just sorta sitting there, taking up room, being ugly.
And aside from that.. maybe do something about the edit text boxes in general, for posting? They don't seem to want to behave nicely with cursor positioning. If you click too low in the edit box, it refuses to accept that you've clicked in it, and otherwise it wants to add extra lines, which can make working with tabs to get links and stuff a touch annoying.
Telii
01-02-2007, 11:38 AM
Any hope for doing something about the smacktarded behavior of the "quick reply" window? Or maybe just get rid of it entirely? I can't seem to find an option for it..
It's next to the quote buttons, at the bottom of every post.
A good way to have it work, would be so you could just quickly post a reply to the thread(default at the OP, if needed), so you can actually make use of it to quickly reply to a rapidly moving topic. Otherwise, it's just sorta sitting there, taking up room, being ugly.
I've seen it work similar to this on other fora. It's automatically enabled, and lacks a quoting tickbox. If you want to quote people you don't use it, or type the code.
SilverStar
01-02-2007, 11:46 AM
I'd rather just get rid of the quick reply box altogether, since it's generally useless. A regular reply usually works just fine, or just click on the Quote button if you want to quote what someone said, very similar to the behavior of the old board.
I dunno.. just because there's a feature that's included, doesn't mean it needs to be put in place. Especially when it tries to limit itself like it does.
Or maybe turn it into a javascript button, so it'll just pop open when you push the button and you can type your reply, rather than have it sit there and eat up half a screen?
Telii
01-02-2007, 11:51 AM
Or maybe turn it into a javascript button, so it'll just pop open when you push the button and you can type your reply, rather than have it sit there and eat up half a screen?
If you click the http://www.ocremix.org/images/vbulletin/buttons/collapse_tcat.gif button at the top right of the Quick Reply box, it'll be out of your way somewhat until you choose to use it, if you choose to use it.
SilverStar
01-02-2007, 11:54 AM
If you click the http://www.ocremix.org/images/vbulletin/buttons/collapse_tcat.gif button at the top right of the Quick Reply box, it'll be out of your way somewhat until you choose to use it, if you choose to use it.
Problem is, I do not see such a button on the quick reply box. o.o
SoloGamer
01-02-2007, 12:04 PM
Problem is, I do not see such a button on the quick reply box. o.o
http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/4705/postaq6.jpg
Hellcom
01-02-2007, 12:23 PM
http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/4705/postaq6.jpg
Yeah... I don't see that anywhere.
Smoke
01-02-2007, 02:17 PM
I'm not fond of the change, but I'm sure I can get used to it with time. My only REAL issue is the smileys. They're fugly. Can we redesign them?
It'll be fixed eventually, and we'll most likely get the old smilies back. It's a minor thing though, so it's at the end of the queue.
Wow, new forum, this will take some getting use to.
I've wondered if you can possibly have a custom avatar.
No. Avatars stay the way they are.
Abadoss
01-02-2007, 03:33 PM
I haven't yet seen a response to kamoh, KyleJCrb, and The Damned's comments concerning thread titles. As this affects me as well, running a competition, I'd be particularly interested in seeing that this is, at least, addressed.
Please don't overlook this...
Ayres
01-02-2007, 06:20 PM
I haven't seen any replies from mods or admins about my, Coop's, and AD's questions regarding character limit. 10 character minimum is perhaps the most run into problem for some users and terribly annoying. 5000 maximum PM character limit is cumbersome as I just found out in a reply to zircon, so I can agree with AD.
I would really like to see the 10 character minimum in "Post Reply" to be adressed.
As well as I would like to point out again some slight frustration with 4 image limit (which include smilies). For the avatar thread, for image threads and for extensive smiley user's, that's death. Can we increase that max limit to slightly more than that? Perhaps 8 or so?
Pyrion
01-02-2007, 09:28 PM
Any hope for doing something about the smacktarded behavior of the "quick reply" window?
Yes, switch to threaded mode. Quick reply will automatically be enabled for the post you are currently viewing.
Old Man Time
01-02-2007, 10:07 PM
Yeah, I think some people brought this up also, but I don't know how to quote an entire persons post, i.e. post a quote of a quote. So if I am responding to someones argument in a PPR thread, and they quoted someone else in their post, I have to paraphrase what the first person said to make my post make sense. There might be a way to do this, though I'm not sure right now how to. If anyone could help that'd be great.
Ayres
01-02-2007, 10:13 PM
Yeah, I think some people brought this up also, but I don't know how to quote an entire persons post, i.e. post a quote of a quote. So if I am responding to someones argument in a PPR thread, and they quoted someone else in their post, I have to paraphrase what the first person said to make my post make sense. There might be a way to do this, though I'm not sure right now how to. If anyone could help that'd be great.
There's no simple way around this I've found. You have to use the "Multi-quote" button on every post you want quoted for it to be included. but this creates separate boxes for each quote. To make a nexus, you have to cut the first tag off and paste it just after the first tag of someone else's quote.
It takes effort now.
Steben
01-03-2007, 02:59 AM
Has anyone had issues with Firefox's Adblock and the new forums? I found that with it enabled, a lot of the background images were blocked.
I don't have anything on www.ocremix.org blocked, for sure. I figure those images must have names that match up with one of my entries with a wildcard character, but I don't know which one.
If anyone who's had the same problem and has a solution could help me out, you'd be awesome.
EDIT: Hmm, never mind. For some reason, once I turned Adblock off and on, the forums were displayed properly. Weird.
supremespleen
01-03-2007, 03:18 AM
Is the 10 character limit going to be changed? It is pretty frustrating, especially in a situation where one just wants to agree with someone, by quoting their post or simply saying 'qfe'. There's also that pesky 4 image limit, which really makes posting in a game screenshot or 4chan thread a pain.
Of course, these are all issues that primarily effect unmodders, so I am not so sure how much effort will be went to fix these. It almost seems like there is a general feeling of animosity from the mods and admins toward that section (even without unmodders bringing it on themselves).
Necrotic
01-03-2007, 04:54 AM
Another really small issue, and I have no idea if it was brought up already.
When previewing a post, the font is tiny (the same size as posts were a couple days ago I believe.)
-Nick
The Author
01-03-2007, 07:13 PM
I display threads at 20 posts per page. However, when I get in some threads, the "next page" appears, but it would be there if I used the default 10 posts, I guess... Not a really annoying issue, just something I wanted to point out.
Radiowar
01-03-2007, 09:34 PM
the link to the forums anywhere on the OCR wiki goes to the phpbb forum, just thought i'd mention
ok so I was too vague
I meant the info section (http://www.ocremix.org/info) which is also called the OCR wiki which is what I was talking about. The link to the forum on the sidebar there goes to the phpbb forum and not the new ones. I can't edit the sidebar.
and i know it isn't important i just thought i'd mention it.
ok
linkspast
01-04-2007, 12:39 AM
Not an issue but So far I have seen not one spam bot!!! w00t!
djpretzel
01-04-2007, 02:36 PM
I meant the info section (http://www.ocremix.org/info) which is also called the OCR wiki which is what I was talking about. The link to the forum on the sidebar there goes to the phpbb forum and not the new ones. I can't edit the sidebar.
Fixed; MediaWiki uses a separate (imo embarassingly craptastic) templating system, so when sidebar changes occur, it's usually the last to get them. Thanks for the reminder.
Abadoss
01-04-2007, 05:29 PM
I haven't yet seen a response to kamoh, KyleJCrb, and The Damned's comments concerning thread titles. As this affects me as well, running a competition, I'd be particularly interested in seeing that this is, at least, addressed.
This is the second time this has been passed over...
Dahlia
01-04-2007, 08:23 PM
I see the orange theme still exists in the "Next Thread" text just above the quick reply box, but I'd like to see it extend to the rest of the forum, as it used to be. You know, on the thread titles and such.
djpretzel
01-04-2007, 08:27 PM
This is the second time this has been passed over...
Don't assume it's being passed over; in this instance, I just don't have a good answer for you yet. vB's permissions are very different from phpBB's, and we're erring on the side of being too restrictive initially, which is almost always a better approach than locking things down after the fact. Clearly, there's a real need for users to be able to edit their own thread titles - no argument there.
For minimum post length and max images, I'm going to consult the mods and vB best practices. For user editing of thread titles, I don't need to - this is something we had before that was pretty crucial, and as soon as I can figure out how to reimplement without granting any other permissions at the same time, I will.
Old Man Time
01-04-2007, 09:39 PM
Yeah, I think some people brought this up also, but I don't know how to quote an entire persons post, i.e. post a quote of a quote. So if I am responding to someones argument in a PPR thread, and they quoted someone else in their post, I have to paraphrase what the first person said to make my post make sense. There might be a way to do this, though I'm not sure right now how to. If anyone could help that'd be great.
Not trying to be a dick, I'm just not sure if this was addressed or passed over. There was one comment about using the multi-quote feature, which seems to be quite a hassle. It doesn't seem like something there would be a quick fix to, so I might just have to get use to this, but if it could be implemented a lot of people I think would appreciate it. Thanks.
Doulifée
01-04-2007, 10:39 PM
Minor annoyance: some special character used on username (é è ñ) doesn't allow them to be added on the buddy list.
Abadoss
01-04-2007, 10:51 PM
Don't assume it's being passed over; in this instance, I just don't have a good answer for you yet. vB's permissions are very different from phpBB's, and we're erring on the side of being too restrictive initially, which is almost always a better approach than locking things down after the fact. Clearly, there's a real need for users to be able to edit their own thread titles - no argument there.
For minimum post length and max images, I'm going to consult the mods and vB best practices. For user editing of thread titles, I don't need to - this is something we had before that was pretty crucial, and as soon as I can figure out how to reimplement without granting any other permissions at the same time, I will.
Thanks. And sorry. It was just important to me.
KyleJCrb
01-04-2007, 10:54 PM
Minor annoyance: some special character used on username (é è ñ) doesn't allow them to be added on the buddy list.
Replace them with the standard letter, with no accent.
Fishy
01-04-2007, 11:29 PM
I thought usernames were locked now.
Doulifée
01-05-2007, 12:51 AM
Replace them with the standard letter, with no accent.
that work, ok, but once it's done, i can't add anymore people. It still report the error with the non standard letter.
The Author
01-05-2007, 03:37 PM
Sometimes, even if I have read all the threads in a forum, in the forum page, it will show as if an unread message was there.
HalcyonSpirit
01-05-2007, 04:02 PM
Sometimes, even if I have read all the threads in a forum, in the forum page, it will show as if an unread message was there.
I find that if you reload the forum using the same browser window (not necessarily the same tab) after you've read the threads, it'll register that you've read them. It's something with how it confirms you read it. My advice is to just open all the threads you want to read in separate tabs and then reload the forum. That always works for me.
PHAT beats
01-05-2007, 04:03 PM
Sometimes, even if I have read all the threads in a forum, in the forum page, it will show as if an unread message was there.
If I recall correctly, this was just as much an issue on the phpBB2 boards. It's not that hard to remember what threads you've read though, is it?
Gollgagh
01-05-2007, 04:13 PM
If I recall correctly, this was just as much an issue on the phpBB2 boards. It's not that hard to remember what threads you've read though, is it?
You've never been in unmod, then.
Edit: sorry, I can never tell around here.
Xaleph
01-05-2007, 04:17 PM
Improved WYSIWYG editor for posting.
Well it's nice that there are some shortcuts, but I'm not seeing any wysiwyg editor - only thing that shows up are a bunch of smily faces at the bottom of the post.
Maybe there is something in the settings that I can enable this wysiwyg editor?
Abadoss
01-05-2007, 04:33 PM
Well it's nice that there are some shortcuts, but I'm not seeing any wysiwyg editor - only thing that shows up are a bunch of smily faces at the bottom of the post.
Maybe there is something in the settings that I can enable this wysiwyg editor?
It's under your edit options page in your CP...
watkinzez
01-07-2007, 01:34 AM
The newest (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01541/) mix is linking to the php decision thread instead of the proper one. Actually, make that all of the mixes that went through the panel. The new one, however, doesn't have a php equivalent, so it's a dead link.
djpretzel
01-07-2007, 04:35 PM
The newest (http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01541/) mix is linking to the php decision thread instead of the proper one. Actually, make that all of the mixes that went through the panel. The new one, however, doesn't have a php equivalent, so it's a dead link.
This has been addressed; mixes have been synchronized with vBulletin thread ids, and the link changed to reflect the new forum location.
Xerol Oplan
01-08-2007, 01:23 AM
This is probably something on my end, but I can't access the User CP in Lynx. I get a vBulletin error saying I don't have authorisation to access the page. However, I'm clearly logged in (otherwise I wouldn't be able to post).
OverCoat
01-09-2007, 06:37 PM
I'm having a problem with threads "unreading" themselves even after I view them several times. dunno why that is. It's not every thread though, just the active ones.
I can mark the entire OCR boards as read, but when I navigate off and then come back to the forum, the posts I haven't read yet are still marked as such.
Wizards Bane
01-11-2007, 12:23 AM
There seems to be a bug in the message center. It says I have unread 8 , but when I look in my inbox I only have old ones.
Koelsch1
01-11-2007, 04:06 AM
I having problems with searches. It returns 0 results if the word is only 3 letters long.
Xerol Oplan
01-11-2007, 04:10 AM
vBulletin search ignores terms less than 4 characters.
Less Ashamed Of Self
01-11-2007, 04:22 AM
Can't seem to comment on Dhsu's latest mix. ;)
Koelsch1
01-11-2007, 05:03 AM
vBulletin search ignores terms less than 4 characters.
Thats just dumb. How am I supposed to search the wip forums for the term "Sax"?
Telii
01-11-2007, 05:27 AM
Thats just dumb. How am I supposed to search the wip forums for the term "Sax"?
I guess you don't.
The Damned
01-11-2007, 05:36 AM
There seems to be a bug in the message center. It says I have unread 8 , but when I look in my inbox I only have old ones.
Actually, it's counting all the old ones. When the switch was made, it listed all my past PMs, from more than a year ago, that I forgot about and never deleted. I guess the system didn't carry over that they were already read.
WesPip
01-11-2007, 06:24 AM
Actually, it's counting all the old ones. When the switch was made, it listed all my past PMs, from more than a year ago, that I forgot about and never deleted. I guess the system didn't carry over that they were already read.
I was about to say that.
If you just read them again, they'll be marked read.
Smoke
01-11-2007, 01:19 PM
I was about to say that.
If you just read them again, they'll be marked read.
Alternatively, there's an option to check all the messages and mark them as read. Quite a bit faster if you've got 140 messages in your inbox.
Cáidh
01-11-2007, 08:50 PM
To play CS with this? (http://www.virtusphere.net/index.html)
I don't see any image there. Am I missing some inside joke or something?
This is quite the little annoying idiosyncrasy of vBul.
Request to fix it plz.
Can we have at least an underline, if not have the entire link orange, like the old forums?
Old Man Time
01-11-2007, 10:22 PM
This is quite the little annoying idiosyncrasy of vBul.
Request to fix it plz.
Can we have at least an underline, if not have the entire link orange, like the old forums?
Links are different colors if you change to the default skin. Its in the bottom left hand corner of the screen. Its says OverClocked Remix - change through the dropdown menu to Default Style.
DarkeSword
01-13-2007, 04:12 PM
http://ocremix.org/mixing/
Official forum thread links for FL and Reason point to phpBB.
WesPip
01-14-2007, 06:22 AM
Obviously, I only speak for myself, but I don't like the most recent changes here.
Subforums: not so nice.
djpretzel
01-14-2007, 06:33 AM
Obviously, I only speak for myself, but I don't like the most recent changes here.
Subforums: not so nice.
Well, I mean... thanks for giving it a fair shot and seeing how it played out in the long run, after ample experience. You've clearly based your opinion on quality seconds of usage :confused:
WesPip
01-14-2007, 08:15 AM
Well, I mean... thanks for giving it a fair shot and seeing how it played out in the long run, after ample experience. You've clearly based your opinion on quality seconds of usage :confused:
You don't need experience for this type of thing.
If it's a hassle to navigate after 5 seconds, it'll be a hassle after 5 months. It doesn't change, though...it has since I posted.
Not the inconvenience, just the set up.
Anyways, I said it was my opinion.
I just don't like it.
Obviously, wait for more feedback, and don't change it on MY account.
I'M JUST THE FIRST FEEDBACK.
Doulifée
01-14-2007, 09:33 AM
well not that bad idea, now by just visiting gendisc, i can quickly check if there is new post in TA/N. but yeah, let's wait for a whole restructuration to moan or applause.
supremespleen
01-14-2007, 01:44 PM
I kind of like it.
Arek the Absolute
01-14-2007, 05:37 PM
Got used to it.
+1 to djp....for now
Is it just me and my inability to find things, or have I lost the ability to change my user name?
yay for my first post since the phpbb -> vbulletin switch!
Fire in the Hole
01-14-2007, 11:10 PM
Is it just me and my inability to find things, or have I lost the ability to change my user name?
yay for my first post since the phpbb -> vbulletin switch!
Simple answer: you have.
Also, I presume the aforementioned competition sub-forum will come with an appropriate move for related threads?
kamoh
01-14-2007, 11:59 PM
Simple answer: you have.
Also, I presume the aforementioned competition sub-forum will come with an appropriate move for related threads?
I assume DJP's gonna move all our stuff.
Kitsuta
01-15-2007, 12:12 AM
I assume DJP's gonna move all our stuff.
Or more accurately, the mods will. Same difference though.
Antelucan
01-15-2007, 05:01 AM
Either Off-Topic shouldn't be hidden or PPR needs to be somewhere else. You shouldn't have to register and log in to view PPR.
DarkeSword
01-15-2007, 03:33 PM
Either Off-Topic shouldn't be hidden or PPR needs to be somewhere else. You shouldn't have to register and log in to view PPR.
Please explain why you shouldn't have to register and log in to view PPR.
Antelucan
01-15-2007, 10:58 PM
Please explain why you shouldn't have to register and log in to view PPR.
Because we did not have to register and log in to view it before yesterday. What has changed?
Secret Agent Man
01-15-2007, 11:53 PM
What has changed?
The forum system.
bobxp
01-16-2007, 01:03 AM
WHY are you using vBulletin of all things?
It's so annoying, I can't even log in to vBulletin forums without having to disable Javascript!
Jeez...
Antelucan
01-16-2007, 02:19 AM
The forum system.
Yes, obviously, but this issue is not due to a limitation of vBulletin.
Smoke
01-16-2007, 12:12 PM
WHY are you using vBulletin of all things?
It's so annoying, I can't even log in to vBulletin forums without having to disable Javascript!
Jeez...
That's an issue on your side, not a flaw of vBulletin.
Also, vBulletin does allow some nice things that phpBB doesn't, especially on the security side. Not to mention that it actually gets updates.
The Mutericator
01-16-2007, 02:43 PM
Please explain why you shouldn't have to register and log in to view PPR.
Better yet, explain why we should have to.
djpretzel
01-16-2007, 04:16 PM
Better yet, explain why we should have to.
Forums that have no intrinsic link to OCR and are off-topic shouldn't be archived by search engines or be exposed directly as part of the public face of the site; they are offered as places for OCR visitors to discuss non-OCR stuff, not as part of the core mission of the site.
Antelucan
01-16-2007, 05:25 PM
Forums that have no intrinsic link to OCR and are off-topic shouldn't be archived by search engines or be exposed directly as part of the public face of the site; they are offered as places for OCR visitors to discuss non-OCR stuff, not as part of the core mission of the site.
This is a good answer. Thanks.
I've been having a heck of a time with text format in my longer posts...can anyone explain why this is?
It always appears fine in the editor, but then when I go to preview or save, it changes. Examples include, but are not limited to: having an underline that is halfway down the next line; text at the bottom being smaller than text at the top; spacing issues between paragraphs.
The second and third posts in the Writing Competition Thread (linked in my sig) are prime examples of this difficulty. Maybe it's just my browser, though.
If anyone could explain this to me it would be appreciated. As a perfectionistic post editor, this is a great annoyance for me.
EDIT: Well, apparently it's just my browser, though the text editor still seems to not work as well for me as the old one did. Guess I'll have to learn to deal with it.
linkspast
01-18-2007, 03:38 PM
After all the changes I have discovered only one issue I have with the switch, Every time I want to check to see if something new is going on with the Fan Art comp, Or any other Comp, I cant just look at the 6 most recently posted items.....
Is there a way to customize your view, So I can decide which discussions show up when I log in... Rather than the Russian ReMix Roulette I could have the Competitions, or something along that nature..
Cáidh
01-19-2007, 03:25 PM
To play CS with this? (http://www.virtusphere.net/index.html)
I don't see any image there. Am I missing some inside joke or something?
This is quite the little annoying idiosyncrasy of vBul.
Request to fix it plz.
Can we have at least an underline, if not have the entire link orange, like the old forums?
Links are different colors if you change to the default skin. Its in the bottom left hand corner of the screen. Its says OverClocked Remix - change through the dropdown menu to Default Style.
I am quite aware of the default style, thank you, and I dislike it even more than the OCR skin's little faults. This is a direct request that has NOTHING to do with the default skin what so ever.
djpretzel
01-19-2007, 03:45 PM
I am quite aware of the default style, thank you, and I dislike it even more than the OCR skin's little faults. This is a direct request that has NOTHING to do with the default skin what so ever.
Links SHOULD be orange. SOME of them are. For some reason I have yet to ascertain, the class being applied doesn't seem to "stick" throughout the entire thread, and is only applied, in some instances, to the very first link.
As soon as I can figure out how to fix this, all links will be orange and underlined. If someone wily wit da CSS can take a look-see and figure it out before I get the time, message me your solution.
Old Man Time
01-21-2007, 02:32 AM
^^ I was just going to mention something about this... that is kinda weird how that works.
Atomic Dog
01-25-2007, 07:26 AM
Thank you DJP, for this forum change.
Thank you DJP, for this new and wonderful way of bringing our thoughts to the public.
Thank you DJP, for giving us easier, simpler controls to
convey
our
thoughts.
Thank you DJP, for giving us the ability to block certain people. I think I love that feature most of all.
Of course, I suspect you have blocked my posts, because I'm an asshole that you disagree with on pretty much everything I say. But I RESPECT that, and I love the ability that you don't have to see me if you don't want to.
Life is so much better knowing that I can ignore the posts of people I don't even care to hear from. Especially in PPR. PPR is so much better now that I've ignored some of the particularly trollish trolls.
The only thing I think the new forms is missing is - a sidebar (yea, I kinda got used to it).
DJP - A+ brother. A+
I think all you have to do is change your forum skin to "OverClocked ReMix" under your User CP options.
Also, I think only the first sentence actually applies to djp. The rest is just built-in features of vB. You could thank the developers or something.
Atomic Dog
01-25-2007, 07:49 AM
Shut up dhsu. DJP made this all possible.
You will love and respect him.
Shadow Wolf
01-25-2007, 04:43 PM
Indeed. We bow at the feet of Herr Pretzel.
Decoy Octopus
01-25-2007, 05:20 PM
TThank you DJP, for giving us the ability to block certain people. I think I love that feature most of all.
Out of curiosity, how many people do you actually have on your block list?
Bahamut
01-25-2007, 05:27 PM
The power of the pretzel shall live on forever! Heil Lloyd!
Oddllama
01-25-2007, 06:11 PM
Out of curiosity, how many people do you actually have on your block list?
Guess you'll never know!
Atomic Dog
01-25-2007, 07:57 PM
Out of curiosity, how many people do you actually have on your block list?
At the moment, three.
I can usually deal with silly annoying twerpism (especially in OffTopic). But when I find my time wasted by reading a reply in PPR that is basically a combination of canned idiocy and backhanded (if not direct) insults, I get a little annoyed. Now they don't even have to show up on the screen.
It's very nice.
Koelsch1
01-25-2007, 08:16 PM
There should be an Emo button, that allows you to ignore everyone on the site all at once.
Atomic Dog
01-25-2007, 08:25 PM
There should be an Emo button, that allows you to ignore everyone on the site all at once.
There is.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8801/button5qh.jpg
Murmeli Walan
01-26-2007, 11:54 AM
The pics your sig is based off actually sorta pissed me off.
What was old and obsolete had to be destroyed to make way for the glorious future!
...you know, kind of like a forest being paved over to make a housing development. ;)
SS4Matt
01-26-2007, 02:37 PM
What was old and obsolete had to be destroyed to make way for the glorious future!
...you know, kind of like a forest being paved over to make a housing development. ;)
And just a few years later the housing development becomes the next ghetto.
Yeah...
Well, it is pretty nice around here.
Old Man Time
01-26-2007, 10:21 PM
Does DJP come here?
I highly doubt it.
Well, either way I'm in before he is.
Atomic Dog
01-28-2007, 10:23 PM
I never ever get tired of seeing this:
This message is hidden because I-n-j-i-n is on your ignore list.
:D
The Author
01-29-2007, 02:00 AM
I never ever get tired of seeing this:
:D
Who is on your ignore list?
Atomic Dog
01-29-2007, 02:21 AM
Who is on your ignore list?
Not you.
The Author
01-29-2007, 04:20 AM
<3 so proud.
Now put me on there >:(
vBulletin Message Sorry, no matter how much you try, you can not ignore yourself.
DZComposer
02-06-2007, 03:23 AM
To me, the advantage of a quick reply feature on a forum is that I do no have to click a link to type a reply to a thread.
The quick reply box here, though, requires that I click a reply link before I can type in the box. If you need to click a link to activate it, it nullifies any reason to have it (SMF and UBB have spoiled me).
Now, either I'm blind and dumb (likely), or it isn't there, but I've scanned through the User CP and found no way to change this behavior. Has anyone else been able to?
I'm sorry if I brought this up an additional time, I did a quick search, but nothing thorough.
watkinzez
02-06-2007, 03:30 AM
The reasoning for the button is on the last page of the Design Questions and Issues thread.
DZComposer
02-06-2007, 04:03 AM
Hmm... That thread didn't show in my search...
Thanks.
That's Page 17 (it's not the last anymore) for others who are wondering.
I didn't know that ANY modern forum software still used threaded stuff like that.
You can always count on legacy features to hold back modern ones....
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