What happened to Unmod?

[DarkOmenDKA]

Que paso?......

[Effef]

Its not there anymore.

[Asacia]

Sure.

(tencharacterfiller)

[zircon]

See the topic in the Announcements forum.

[hhallahh]

in before b&

www.unmod.org

[Tardigrade]

Not in the literal sense, more of a where did the people go? Are they mostly at .org, or did they come to GenDisc, or are they all hiding in their closets weeping?

[Doulifée]

all the 3. whining at GD and .ORG

[Sir_NutS]

all the 3. whining at GD and .ORG
but it's true.

[Tardigrade]

Before UnMod went kaput I downloaded that UnMod Presents - 4chan.zip if anyone wants it and it's not already available.

[Yellow 13]

With UnMod gone now, I just find this site to be a bit more boring now. I don't even come here for the music anymore, and chances are I'll be coming here less and less now because of it.

And the soon-to-come Off-Topic forum isn't gonna help any.

[GeckoYamori]

This place is starting to feel kind of barren.

[Funkoid]

No...NO...I am NOT going back to Gamefaqs! God no!

Not back to the land of the 12 year old idiots!

[Raulimus]

So Unmod is done for? That's it? No more???
Lame...

[Trace.]

No...NO...I am NOT going back to Gamefaqs! God no!

Not back to the land of the 12 year old idiots!

Gen disc is full of 2 year olds mostly.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

This place is starting to feel kind of barren.

I'm humored. Way to be stupid, people. Congratulations! Now OCR is CAD! I take it Absath (tim) took over?

OCR's problems are gone and now look at it. It's like shooting yourself in the head to cure the flu.

...where did the laughing smilie go?

[bladiator]

I didn't even realize UnMod was gone. LAWL! gg djp. This place just became classier.

[Mr.Roboto]

I didn't even realize UnMod was gone. LAWL! gg djp. This place just became classier.

Yes.And its got the excitement of a classy place.

Which is none.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

I didn't even realize UnMod was gone. LAWL! gg djp. This place just became classier.

The difference between class and arrogance is how many people you have fooled into thinking you're better than they are. Anyone who feels a hightened sense of superiority for coming to this board due to Unmod leaving is a complete moron.

[Coffeeholic]

I didn't even realize UnMod was gone. LAWL! gg djp. This place just became classier.


More like dumber.

[Toadofsky]

No...NO...I am NOT going back to Gamefaqs! God no!

Not back to the land of the 12 year old idiots!

Don't get me started on G4's forums....

[Bill Lumbergh]

I cried, theres no point for me in coming here anymore.

[Sir_NutS]

Don't get me started on G4's forums....

Look where you're standing dude. When you're in a forum where the hot thread is "Let's dress up kirby in stupid customes" you know that puberty hasn't been reached yet.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Look where you're standing dude. When you're in a forum where the hot thread is "Let's dress up kirby in stupid customes" you know that puberty hasn't been reached yet.

wurd......

[Funkoid]

Your missing the point. I could talk about dumb kiddy topics all day. What really show maturity is the fact that people here don't get in lame trivial arguments and end up calling eachother gay.

THAT'S the reason I left GameFaqs. People can't even spell correctly there, let alone keep up fun conversations.

[LongeBane]

Look where you're standing dude. When you're in a forum where the hot thread is "Let's dress up kirby in stupid customes" you know that puberty hasn't been reached yet.

Funny how I'm getting the feel that the thread is more mature than you

[Hellcom]

Where the hell did unmod go? In the literal sense please.

[patella femoral syndrome]

Where the hell did unmod go? In the literal sense please.

deleted. The only unmod that exists anymore ends in .org.

[CE]

Where the hell did unmod go? In the literal sense please.

BALEETED!

Seriously.

[Hellcom]

FOOLS! Do you realize what you have done?? For years what we have called "unmod" has sealed the insanity that has been foretold as the catalyst of abaddon. You have unwittingly released this nameless stupid upon us. Fools, fools, you have dammed us all!

[GeckoYamori]

Some crawled in corners and cried. Some went to .org. Some flooded GenDisc and got banned. Others took shelter in great underground vaults.

[Toadofsky]

Your missing the point. I could talk about dumb kiddy topics all day. What really show maturity is the fact that people here don't get in lame trivial arguments and end up calling eachother gay.

THAT'S the reason I left GameFaqs. People can't even spell correctly there, let alone keep up fun conversations.

I think the topic I got sick of seeing the most was Twilight Princess, instead of a positive thread, it became the "whine like a baby" about everything "wrong" with the game. I enjoyed the new Zelda, it could have been better in some respects, but I don't give a crap about difficulty or weapons, amount of dungeons, games length, etc.

That thread made me actually stop coming here for a while.
What's wrong with the Kirby thread? It's more of an art topic if you ask me. Why not talk about that stupid Moral Kombat video? And here 20 year olds say "Die stupid Senators! DIE!", yeah, that makes them believe we're mature people...

[I.Medley]

The official announcement (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?p=201322#201322) from djp about this whole business.

[bladiator]

The difference between class and arrogance is how many people you have fooled into thinking you're better than they are. Anyone who feels a hightened sense of superiority for coming to this board due to Unmod leaving is a complete moron.

Big words don't make Unmod a beautiful place, I'm sorry. UnMod was useless, that's all there is to it. There are plenty of places on the internet for stupidity, so find another one. I didn't ask for the difference between class and arrogance either, kthx.

[Pixelated]

How can you be off of the topic of general discussion?

[Sir_NutS]

How can you be off of the topic of general discussion?

lol... so true, so true.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

Big words don't make Unmod a beautiful place, I'm sorry. UnMod was useless, that's all there is to it. There are plenty of places on the internet for stupidity, so find another one. I didn't ask for the difference between class and arrogance either, kthx.

I was showing that there really isn't one. Stop acting like you're above other people. wait...scrap that. Continue to be arrogant. Keep yourself convinced that you stand above others. I'm certain hilarity can come from it.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

Where the hell did unmod go? In the literal sense please.

to take a piss

[The Orichalcon]

I was showing that there really isn't one. Stop acting like you're above other people. wait...scrap that. Continue to be arrogant. Keep yourself convinced that you stand above others. I'm certain hilarity can come from it.

Karl literally stands above pretty much everyone.

[Sir_NutS]

Karl literally stands above pretty much everyone.
NOT ME!!!!!!!!

[The Coop]

Some crawled in corners and cried. Some went to .org. Some flooded GenDisc and got banned. Others took shelter in great underground vaults.

And others just waited for something of interest to appear on the front page of Gen Dis that they wanted to post in. Not everyone left ;)



The problem is that a good number of the staff members didn't see the point in UnMod, because they rarely took part in it. For all the projects and "fads" that took place in there, I believe I rarely ever saw a mod's name pop up, or a judge's or an admin's. While some on this site were having fun, others just turned up their noses to it. Few on the staff seemed to want to take part in it, and few seemed to want to see what kept bringing people back to UnMod. So, we had various members of the staff put those taking part in it down, and consider the whole thing not worth checking out. Not many on the staff publicly stood up for UnMod and what went on in it, so a sense of disdain from the staff towards the so-called "UnModders" grew, and that sense was returned. Personally, I don't think half the drama between UnMod and the staff would have existed if they'd just taken part in the place, instead of opting to mock it.

I think the real shame here, is that a lot of fun things took place in UnMod... things that couldn't have been done in Gen Dis. Anyone and everyone could take part in them if they chose to, and since you didn't have to worry about keeping it family friendly, that gave people a lot more freedom to be creative. That's something that a lot of people are going to miss. It was a place to do things that couldn't be done elsewhere on the site, and not have to tone it down. It's true that some abused that concept, but others used it in good ways. I guess now we're learning more about who only saw UnMod for the former part, and not the latter one.


For someone like myself, its disheartening to see a part of this site I've enjoyed for well over four years get brought to end as it did, and to see people on both sides act as they have towards one another.

[Bahamut]

Your missing the point. I could talk about dumb kiddy topics all day. What really show maturity is the fact that people here don't get in lame trivial arguments and end up calling eachother gay.

THAT'S the reason I left GameFaqs. People can't even spell correctly there, let alone keep up fun conversations.

Last I checked, maturity includes stuff like not acting like a common troll and respect. Lacking in one area of maturity does not justify another lack of maturity.

[Sir_NutS]

And others just waited for something of interest to appear on the front page of Gen Dis that they wanted to post in. Not everyone left ;)



The problem is that a good number of the staff members didn't see the point in UnMod, because they rarely took part in it. For all the projects and "fads" that took place in there, I believe I rarely ever saw a mod's name pop up, or a judge's or an admin's. While some on this site were having fun, others just turned up their noses to it. Few on the staff seemed to want to take part in it, and few seemed to want to see what kept bringing people back to UnMod. So, we had various members of the staff put those taking part in it down, and consider the whole thing not worth checking out. Not many on the staff publicly stood up for UnMod and what went on in it, so a sense of disdain from the staff towards the so-called "UnModders" grew, and that sense was returned. Personally, I don't think half the drama between UnMod and the staff would have existed if they'd just taken part in the place, instead of opting to mock it.

I think the real shame here, is that a lot of fun things took place in UnMod... things that couldn't have been done in Gen Dis. Anyone and everyone could take part in them if they chose to, and since you didn't have to worry about keeping it family friendly, that gave people a lot more freedom to be creative. That's something that a lot of people are going to miss. It was a place to do things that couldn't be done elsewhere on the site, and not have to tone it down. It's true that some abused that concept, but others used it in good ways. I guess now we're learning more about who only saw UnMod for the former, and not the latter.


For someone like myself, its disheartening to see a part of this site I've enjoyed for well over four years get brought to end as it did, and to see people on both sides act as they have towards one another.
Amen, Mr Coop.

EDIT: I wish that, although Unmod is gone I still get to see those kickass sigs of yours once in a while around here.

[Dagda Mor]

Coop says it better than I ever could.

[ReMiX]

And others just waited for something of interest to appear on the front page of Gen Dis that they wanted to post in. Not everyone left ;)



The problem is that a good number of the staff members didn't see the point in UnMod, because they rarely took part in it. For all the projects and "fads" that took place in there, I believe I rarely ever saw a mod's name pop up, or a judge's or an admin's. While some on this site were having fun, others just turned up their noses to it. Few on the staff seemed to want to take part in it, and few seemed to want to see what kept bringing people back to UnMod. So, we had various members of the staff put those taking part in it down, and consider the whole thing not worth checking out. Not many on the staff publicly stood up for UnMod and what went on in it, so a sense of disdain from the staff towards the so-called "UnModders" grew, and that sense was returned. Personally, I don't think half the drama between UnMod and the staff would have existed if they'd just taken part in the place, instead of opting to mock it.

I think the real shame here, is that a lot of fun things took place in UnMod... things that couldn't have been done in Gen Dis. Anyone and everyone could take part in them if they chose to, and since you didn't have to worry about keeping it family friendly, that gave people a lot more freedom to be creative. That's something that a lot of people are going to miss. It was a place to do things that couldn't be done elsewhere on the site, and not have to tone it down. It's true that some abused that concept, but others used it in good ways. I guess now we're learning more about who only saw UnMod for the former part, and not the latter one.


For someone like myself, its disheartening to see a part of this site I've enjoyed for well over four years get brought to end as it did, and to see people on both sides act as they have towards one another.

COOP FOR PRESIDENT

[OverCoat]

I... kinda like the OCR forums now

Less threads to check!

[Doulifée]

Amen, Mr Coop.

EDIT: I wish that, although Unmod is gone I still get to see those kickass sigs of yours once in a while around here.

Most of the sigmaker job is done in TA/N and i'm sure we'll ressurect the sigmaker thread in offtop.

[The Orichalcon]

And others just waited for something of interest to appear on the front page of Gen Dis that they wanted to post in. Not everyone left ;)



The problem is that a good number of the staff members didn't see the point in UnMod, because they rarely took part in it. For all the projects and "fads" that took place in there, I believe I rarely ever saw a mod's name pop up, or a judge's or an admin's. While some on this site were having fun, others just turned up their noses to it. Few on the staff seemed to want to take part in it, and few seemed to want to see what kept bringing people back to UnMod. So, we had various members of the staff put those taking part in it down, and consider the whole thing not worth checking out. Not many on the staff publicly stood up for UnMod and what went on in it, so a sense of disdain from the staff towards the so-called "UnModders" grew, and that sense was returned. Personally, I don't think half the drama between UnMod and the staff would have existed if they'd just taken part in the place, instead of opting to mock it.

I think the real shame here, is that a lot of fun things took place in UnMod... things that couldn't have been done in Gen Dis. Anyone and everyone could take part in them if they chose to, and since you didn't have to worry about keeping it family friendly, that gave people a lot more freedom to be creative. That's something that a lot of people are going to miss. It was a place to do things that couldn't be done elsewhere on the site, and not have to tone it down. It's true that some abused that concept, but others used it in good ways. I guess now we're learning more about who only saw UnMod for the former part, and not the latter one.


For someone like myself, its disheartening to see a part of this site I've enjoyed for well over four years get brought to end as it did, and to see people on both sides act as they have towards one another.

Well to be honest, that's what Off Topic was originally about. (I have no idea what it's about now, it seems to have changed a bit since the initial idea.)

We were tossing these ideas around back in late 2005, early 2006. Namely, Gray and I would have long discussions about the aspects of Unmod that were attractive, and those that weren't. I was happy to have an Off Topic forum that would simply cut the crap out (ie: pointless topics where people just post things like "ur mom lolz") quote pyramids, thread breaks. Stuff like that.

Off topic was a place for the topics that actually generated interest in unmod. ie: Consider it a "Best of unmod" forum. Even if that stuff was dirty, or questionable material (think cockbee or boobies thread) that would have a place there. I personally thought that this was a great idea because it took away the unattractive parts of unmod that were keeping a lot of staff members from taking the forum seriously.

I strongly enjoyed visiting unmod daily for those funny threads where everyone was free to participate without limitations, and the lack of the forum hurts me as much as it seems to hurt a lot of people on OCR. I can only hope that when Off Topic does open, it's given the leeway to play out what it was initially intended for.

[Hellcom]

+1 for the Coop. I just hope that the "Off-topic" forum will retain some of the spirit of unmod.

[Dhsu]

How can you be off of the topic of general discussion?
Seems like "General Discussion" is even more of a misnomer than "UnModerated." :P

And I wanted to QFT/E The Coop's post, but it's pretty big so I'm gonna just say QFT/E. I've seen the staff talk about the elimination of "undesirables" who come to OCR "just for UnMod" as a rationale for its deletion. They like to pretend that this has no effect on the "upstanding" portion of the community. But what they forget is that there are listeners and ReMixers such as The Coop and I who contribute to the community and also visited UnMod and regularly contributed to and benefited from the forum. True, they won't stop coming to the site in all likelihood, but that doesn't mean the forum had no use or purpose. djp wouldn't evaluate the usefulness of the quicksearch function or RSS feeds by removing them and seeing how many hits he loses. That's just not the way it's done.

But wait, you say we can do all our regular UnMod activities elsewhere? This argument is specious at best. Guess what, guys: every single topic in Gen Disc can also be found in every other Gen Disc forum ever, too. There are, in fact, entire sites dedicated to each of the topics that are considered on topic. But that's completely beside the point. Where else can you discuss these things with OCR members?

And in the end, there's still no excuse for the incompetent way in which this situation was handled. I'm sorry if that sounds extreme, but what djp and the mods did was extreme as well, and I believe they should be held accountable for it.

[Sir_NutS]

I agree in that Offtopic should be sort of like unmod - useless stuff (fad threads and the like) since most of the great unmod threads were far better than anything else that you would find in the entire forums. But the announcement by djp makes it sound as just another moderated gendisc, where the topics are off-topic from the ones in gendisc.(which is stupid imo, since the topics on gendisc are mostly offtopic from the site's purpose, that is, remixes. But oh well)

[Bahamut]

I agree in that Offtopic should be sort of like unmod - useless stuff (fad threads and the like) since most of the great unmod threads were far better than anything else that you would find in the entire forums. But the announcement by djp makes it sound as just another moderated gendisc, where the topics are off-topic from the ones in gendisc.(which is stupid imo, since the topics on gendisc are mostly offtopic from the site's purpose, that is, remixes. But oh well)

Well, we don't want an overflowing of the fad threads (come on, you know that some of those cases were pretty extreme and stupid), but yeah, we just don't want massive trolling, flooding, spamming, and abuse of that nature. Essentially Unmod with the crap taken out. Also if someone acts really dense and posting to piss people off, they will get just as moderated, so as to keep the forum clean of that.

Also, I'm not sure where the whole no porn thing came from - even djp was like "no porn?" We'll probably be discussing this in the next few days (I'd lean more towards the end of the week though).

[Martin Penwald]

I... kinda like the OCR forums now

Less threads to check!

Says the guy who made a shitload of (fad)threads every single day...

[supremespleen]

Coop mentioned it, and I will to - the worst part about this whole thing was seeing people that I like and respect on both sides act like dicks.

For someone like me, who has a foot in the door of both sections of the site, it was fairly disheartening.

[Señor Quetzalcoatl]

Off topic was a place for the topics that actually generated interest in unmod. ie: Consider it a "Best of unmod" forum. Even if that stuff was dirty, or questionable material (think cockbee or boobies thread) that would have a place there. I personally thought that this was a great idea because it took away the unattractive parts of unmod that were keeping a lot of staff members from taking the forum seriously.

I strongly enjoyed visiting unmod daily for those funny threads where everyone was free to participate without limitations, and the lack of the forum hurts me as much as it seems to hurt a lot of people on OCR. I can only hope that when Off Topic does open, it's given the leeway to play out what it was initially intended for.

The main problem here is that many of those who were "best of unmod", as you put it, and who "generated interest in unmod" have been driven away. And suddenly at that.

Imagine you have a pretty kick-ass party going on and then suddenly throw everybody out because a handful of people simply piss you off. The night is young, so those who want to continue partying organize their own party. But then you open your doors again that night and start calling people up to come to your party. You can't really expect all those who left to come back. There's another party going on elsewhere already.

At best, there will be two parties. Some will return, others will drive back and forth, and some will always stay at that other one.

I really think there are situations in life that are beyond repair, and this is one of those. People from both sides just went overboard. But as I said, there is no way to make amends.

Off-topic will start something new, but not like the "best of unmod" in my opinion. .org won't be the "best of" either.

Just two parties going on at the same time.

[Bummerdude]

It will keep on living in our hearts.

[The Orichalcon]

All we can do is continue and hope that people enjoy the new forum. Maybe some of those people who made unmod great will come back if the forum really is a "best of".

[SS4Matt]

Who decided it would be a good idea to get rid of UnMod? I mean, frack, I was gone for a few days to go to college, get everything set up, and UnMod is GONE? WTF man? Who in the blazes decided that would be a good idea

[Thalzon]

The mods. Duh.

[Dhsu]

It'd help not to give them what is essentially a huge middle finger.

[Dhsu]

We thought the same thing. (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6489)

[SS4Matt]

I really REALLY hope Dave is just drunk right now(we all know he likes a drink every now and then) and I hope that he figures out how STUPID a decision this is.

[Bahamut]

I also have said that pic should definitely not been posted (I was in the pic for fun, as were some others like rama) - I said that right when the picture was taken.

[Dhsu]

I'm not even referring to the picture...I'm talking about the nonchalant deletion of UnMod and just the staff's unapologetic attitude about the situation in general.

[Bahamut]

The plan has always been to delete Unmod - the question was of when it should be done. The new forum should be up by the end of the week, once we flesh out the rules for it. How this was handled definitely could have been better though.

[Hellcom]

Off-topic-ish, but nice new sig dhsu.

http://personal.utulsa.edu/~david-hsu/images/UnModNuked.gif

[Dhsu]

I didn't make it...a lot of UnModders have it, but I guess they either left or were banned.

Thanks though. :)

[The Coop]

All we can do is continue and hope that people enjoy the new forum. Maybe some of those people who made unmod great will come back if the forum really is a "best of".

Only time will tell, Orichalcon. If it does, it won't be immediate. Those who left will be watching to see how Off Topic is run, and just where the boundaries are. A lot of trash was talked by both sides, and it continues to be as we've seen. So it'll like take while for the dust to settle, and for people to chill out. I too have hopes of Off Topic allowing everyone to do the image threads, the contests, the edit threads, and all the things that generated interest and many a good time in UnMod. But since so little has really been mentioned, and what was said sounded extremely restrictive in how it was worded, it's a "wait and see" game for now.

I won't miss the thread breaks, the image/text bombs, the massive fad thread outbreaks (though a few were funny), and their ilk, but I'm hoping I won't wind up missing all the things that made UnMod fun to take part in.



Edit: Hellcom- I made that badge after a few folks asked for one about UnMod's deletion. If you like it, feel free to use it.

[hhallahh]

Off topic was a place for the topics that actually generated interest in unmod. ie: Consider it a "Best of unmod" forum. Even if that stuff was dirty, or questionable material (think cockbee or boobies thread) that would have a place there. I personally thought that this was a great idea because it took away the unattractive parts of unmod that were keeping a lot of staff members from taking the forum seriously.

I strongly enjoyed visiting unmod daily for those funny threads where everyone was free to participate without limitations, and the lack of the forum hurts me as much as it seems to hurt a lot of people on OCR. I can only hope that when Off Topic does open, it's given the leeway to play out what it was initially intended for.

Unfortunately, this line of thinking fails to incorporate the fact that Unmod was a community of individuals which had evolved over several years. You can't just "build it and they will come", there are plenty of lame "off-topic" forums strewn around the internet. Unmod was an exception, though, one that had grown over time to its current form. And the mods gutted it, and everyone realizes that .org is "the cool place to be".. and unfortunately, this will continue to be the case, as many people of note who would visit this site will end up migrating to .org, now that it's probably hit the critical threshold of being a self-sustaining entity that will siphon off everything that made Unmod great from this site.

This little social experiment will not work as intended. At least not as you would hope. The mods.. I'm sure they don't really give a damn, they would be happy to babysit a bunch of children in diapers as long as they got their precious respect.

[Bahamut]

I'm not even referring to the picture...I'm talking about the nonchalant deletion of UnMod and just the staff's unapologetic attitude about the situation in general.

We're going to have a talk about this - I'm trying to get it as soon as possible, but of course some people only come on at night. There are definitely apologies to be given from the staff though. We'll probably make an announcement about it and have each of us post in it with the relevant comments. I understand how some people won't be coming back - some of those people were wanted out, some not, but there has been some bad blood left behind that needs to be addressed.

It is definitely something of concern though.

However, people should not forget that there were many childish actions done during this time as well. The flooding and trolling that occurred after the deletion was a definite indication that something was wrong. I talked to some of the .org people earlier, and they admitted that some stuff was out of hand. The crux of the problem appears to be miscommunication, and I aim on trying to get that fixed for the future.

[atmuh]

Coop mentioned it, and I will to - the worst part about this whole thing was seeing people that I like and respect on both sides act like dicks.

For someone like me, who has a foot in the door of both sections of the site, it was fairly disheartening.
both sides angered me as well
WHERE DO I TURN???

[Kitsuta]

I think the real shame here, is that a lot of fun things took place in UnMod... things that couldn't have been done in Gen Dis. Anyone and everyone could take part in them if they chose to, and since you didn't have to worry about keeping it family friendly, that gave people a lot more freedom to be creative. That's something that a lot of people are going to miss. It was a place to do things that couldn't be done elsewhere on the site, and not have to tone it down. It's true that some abused that concept, but others used it in good ways. I guess now we're learning more about who only saw UnMod for the former part, and not the latter one.

The problem with this is that the people who abused it did it in such a way that would get DJP and OCR royally fucked. Remember when that guy posted the video of the underage girl stripping? The video itself was removed yes, but people(as far as I remember) were still allowed to request it. That is, quite simply, illegal, and could get the entire site in big trouble.

That's not even counting the various other things people have done in the past via the Unmod forum, whether it was harassing someone or posting illegal content. I am sad to see unmod go, but I can also understand why it was not preferable but absolutely necessary to remove it in order to protect the site.

But maybe that's just me.

[zyko]

just thought i'd clarify that from my end, my lack of participation had nothing to do with my opinion of unmod - i did not need to be a part of unmod in order to support it and acknowledge how insanely fun it was. i just didnt' have any more time to participate there than anywhere else.

i'm seeing a lot of generalization on both sides about where people stand.
that ostracizes the few supporters you do have.

[Xerol Oplan]

just thought i'd clarify that from my end, my lack of participation had nothing to do with my opinion of unmod - i did not need to be a part of unmod in order to support it and acknowledge how insanely fun it was. i just didnt' have any more time to participate there than anywhere else.

i'm seeing a lot of generalization on both sides about where people stand.
that ostracizes the few supporters you do have.

Well, no matter what happens, we'll have Pick'Em (http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/pickem/21864) somehow next year.

[supremespleen]

both sides angered me as well
WHERE DO I TURN???Do what I did. Contributed to gendisc by posting in good topics, while breaking the chain of flood that was happening this morning. :3

[Brim]

If OffTop is just UnMod without the illegal stuff, I'm fine with it.

[HunterKiller]

If OffTop is just UnMod without the illegal stuff, I'm fine with it.
That's, like, a barren wasteland, isn't it?

[skywalker6705]

Big words don't make Unmod a beautiful place, I'm sorry. UnMod was useless, that's all there is to it. There are plenty of places on the internet for stupidity, so find another one. I didn't ask for the difference between class and arrogance either, kthx.

One of this sites main goals was to expose artists music to new listeners and audiences. And unmod helped that. Here's how:

I had Firefox tabs open to 3 unmod threads, for a total of 6 months. Unmod brought traffic. And yea, some didn't download, ALOT did. So did many lurkers like myself. I was entertained, and people return for that frequently. If you expect this site to be uber-serious and still have even remotely the exposure it has now, you're quite mistaken. If this site continues to wave the banhammer at anyone who speaks up, and to disregard humor as worthwhile, then it will be left full of boring posts like Gamefaqs, and we'll all know just how badly Goku can beat anyone.

Just to note as well: the humor here was far-reaching. The Chargin' Mah Lazer meme was started in large part here, and I honestly think it would have not happened without UnMod, among others. DJP, mods, you made the collective internet laugh.

It's sad to say that yesterday was the first time in months that OCRemix left my tabs. There simply weren't any threads of worth to look at. I don't eargerly refresh each day to see which unknown remix has been posted. I refresh for my friends, and my jokes. And they make me want to see the music that comes out of this site.

Edit: I understand the need for unmod to grow up with the site, but it's the attitude over the past week or two that's making OCR unappealing. I don't feel wanted here, at all. I was banned yesterday and slandered as a "poorly disgused" alt account. Look up the posts on that if you like, but long story short, no, it was the site's fault for not sending my registration link 4 months ago. And the mods not doing anything afterwards.

[Brim]

That's, like, a barren wasteland, isn't it?

Could be, since a lot of members ditched.

[HunterKiller]

One of this sites main goals was to expose artists music to new listeners and audiences. And unmod helped that. Here's how:

I had Firefox tabs open to 3 unmod threads, for a total of 6 months. Unmod brought traffic. And yea, some didn't download, ALOT did. So did many lurkers like myself. I was entertained, and people return for that frequently. If you expect this site to be uber-serious and still have even remotely the exposure it has now, you're quite mistaken. If this site continues to wave the banhammer at anyone who speaks up, and to disregard humor as worthwhile, then it will be left full of boring posts like Gamefaqs, and we'll all know just how badly Goku can beat anyone.

Just to note as well: the humor here was far-reaching. The Chargin' Mah Lazer meme was started in large part here, and I honestly think it would have not happened without UnMod, among others. DJP, mods, you made the collective internet laugh.

It's sad to say that yesterday was the first time in months that OCRemix left my tabs. There simply weren't any threads of worth to look at. I don't eargerly refresh each day to see which unknown remix has been posted. I refresh for my friends, and my jokes. And they make me want to see the music that comes out of this site.

Also, who said it was a beautiful place? The point of unmod wasn't to be a "beautiful" place, I always saw of it more as a place for shinanigans (How do you spell that...), and that really made this place fun.
EDIT: Oops, didn't realize this new setup doesn't quote the previous quote (Bye bye quote nexus?)

[Brim]

Also, who said it was a beautiful place? The point of unmod wasn't to be a "beautiful" place, I always saw of it more as a place for shinanigans (How do you spell that...), and that really made this place fun.

Yeah, UnMod was supposed to gather all the spam out of Gendisc, I believe, just as PPR was supposed to gather the intellectual debate-type stuff.

Also, shenanigans.

[Bahamut]

Edit: I understand the need for unmod to grow up with the site, but it's the attitude over the past week or two that's making OCR unappealing. I don't feel wanted here, at all. I was banned yesterday and slandered as a "poorly disgused" alt account. Look up the posts on that if you like, but long story short, no, it was the site's fault for not sending my registration link 4 months ago. And the mods not doing anything afterwards.

Well, we were concerned because your IP traces to Beatdown. Whether it is or not, we're letting it go for now.

[Brim]

Beatdown? With an alt?

[skywalker6705]

Also if someone acts really dense and posting to piss people off, they will get just as moderated, so as to keep the forum clean of that.

Also, I'm not sure where the whole no porn thing came from - even djp was like "no porn?" We'll probably be discussing this in the next few days (I'd lean more towards the end of the week though).

1) "as moderated"

Please tell me that eventually the mods will begin using the time limit feature included in their ability to ban. Because trolling, spamming, etc. on a first offense isn't ban worthy in my opinion. I'm going to reference SA here, so forgive me, but people there get probation that can last anywhere from hours to weeks to eternity. If you match the time to the crime, people will shape up I feel. Because it's nice to KEEP your account you put all that effort into.

2) Oh pwease tell me I can keep da pr0nz!!

Quick edit:
Well, we were concerned because your IP traces to Beatdown. Whether it is or not, we're letting it go for now.

Beatdown has posted from my house a number of times. I'm sure everyone should be familiar with the fact he has no internet. Think of me as the gatekeeper, I drag him over, and then he floods out. The amount of DVDs I've burnt bringing over bootleg games, etc. cause he can't get them is staggering. I'm fairly certain he's mentioned that he was posting from a friends house many times.... or at least a few.

[sgx]

Back when Gray was actually online and still a judge he told me that several unmodders basically did all they could to do to annoy DJP and Gray, and perhaps other moderators/judger0rs.

He didn't really get into details, and I didn't really care, but it sounded like there were several pewps in there that had the favor of a bunch of the other unmodders, so it was time to just end the ungrateful annoyance/bandwidth waste that didn't have shit to do with remixing game music.

Too bad :((((

[skywalker6705]

As a sidenote while it's on my mind, Beatdown is still without net, so the ip crossover may continue a while. He occasionally steals our mutual friend's laptop, and goes to site upstairs in the freezing ass cold to surf the web a bit. Thus why his IP association changes.

[Atomicfog]

All we can do is continue and hope that people enjoy the new forum. Maybe some of those people who made unmod great will come back if the forum really is a "best of".


I would really love that. I agree that there were way too many completely pointless threads and retarded stuff to sort through to get to the gems. I would , of course, come back to that.

Big words don't make Unmod a beautiful place, I'm sorry. UnMod was useless, that's all there is to it. There are plenty of places on the internet for stupidity, so find another one. I didn't ask for the difference between class and arrogance either, kthx.

You've made some awesome remixes, but I have to disagree with you. Much of it was useless, but the gems that were there were so worth it. There was really some great stuff in there; it iwas just hard to find sometimes.

[zyko]

Well, no matter what happens, we'll have Pick'Em (http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/pickem/21864) somehow next year.

haha yea, we'll still be on
i'm gonna REALLY give you guys a taste of my prophetic abilities next year.

not sure what happened this season :)

[Coffeeholic]

All we can do is continue and hope that people enjoy the new forum. Maybe some of those people who made unmod great will come back if the forum really is a "best of".

People are very dissapointed with this entire situation, and I don't think the new forum will be nearly as lively as unmod was. All the funny people are banned anyway.

As gorveg said, it wasn't the deletion itself that bothered everyone, but the lack of respect the community was treated.

[Murmeli Walan]

You know, no disrespect to blad, but I really hate being labled as useless. So I can't remix or play an instrument or mod or judge or anything. But I vote in competitions, I make intelligent (to me, anyway) comments in Gen Disc. I even have a remix project (which is coming together nicely). Me, Coop, and a few others contributed here all the time.

Yeah, there were a bunch of assholes who abused the forum, but we weren't all bad.

EDIT: Coop said it better than I ever could.

[The Coop]

just thought i'd clarify that from my end, my lack of participation had nothing to do with my opinion of unmod - i did not need to be a part of unmod in order to support it and acknowledge how insanely fun it was. i just didnt' have any more time to participate there than anywhere else.

i'm seeing a lot of generalization on both sides about where people stand.
that ostracizes the few supporters you do have.

Well, that's why I used the word "some" when talking about the judges and mods in my post earlier, zyko. Not all the mods or judges were speaking out against UnMod and those posting in it, just like not all the posters in UnMod spoke out against the judges and mods. Just because you (or other judges and mods) didn't post in UnMod much, doesn't mean you were doing the trash talking. That wasn't what I meant with my post earlier, so I apologize if you took it that way. I was only saying that each side had its own people who were quite verbal about their dislike of each other. And with people on both sides making their feelings known, it doesn't take much for a build up of animosity to begin.

It didn't happen right away, but what I saw over time was that it eventually got to a point where it didn't matter that Gray, Smoke, Myf, Ori, Vig, AP and others were taking part in UnMod, and that various "UnModders" were doing their part to help the site and the people on it. Somehow, it transformed into an "us vs. them" situation... an "UnMod and its posters are worthless" vs "The judges and mods are all dicks" generalization-fest. Most of what you read about was how much one side disliked the other, despite common sense saying that it wasn't really like that. Unfortunately though, once this "us vs them" mentality got a foothold, nothing ever seemed to disprove it or defuse the situation.

I could very well be wrong with this, but that's what I saw slowly happen over the years. We both know it wasn't really like that, zyko... that the "us vs them" deal wasn't the truth. Hell, anyone who took a step back from it all could see that. But when generalizations keep being stated over and over, sometimes they get seen as facts by some, and that's how this whole thing became a self-sustaining, on-going sore spot for the site... a sore spot that was effectively ripped open a couple days ago.


Anyway, I hope that makes my point clear.

[Doulifée]

You know, no disrespect to blad, but I really hate being labled as useless. So I can't remix or play an instrument or mod or judge or anything. But I vote in competitions, I make intelligent (to me, anyway) comments in Gen Disc. I even have a remix project (which is coming together nicely). Me, Coop, and a few others contributed here all the time.

Yeah, there were a bunch of assholes who abused the forum, but we weren't all bad.

EDIT: Coop said it better than I ever could.

i completely agree too. being labeled like "nothing" is painful.

[Xerol Oplan]

haha yea, we'll still be on
i'm gonna REALLY give you guys a taste of my prophetic abilities next year.

not sure what happened this season :)

Well, I'm going to set up a mailing list so I can personally remind everyone every week. And possibly put up a prize, to increase interest.

[Bongo Bill]

I think you also have to consider the general sort of humor style that prevailed in Unmod at the time. Half those people, I bet, didn't have anything against the mods, but were just going along with it 'cause they thought it was funny. I mean, obviously, that's kind of a dickish thing to do, but you do have to consider that they probably wouldn't have done it if they didn't get a reaction out of it. Essentially, what we've seen is the Unmodders who had sincere complaints about their friends being banned were joined by Unmodders trolling the moderators en masse. I, um, guess it worked?

[neminem]

So, geez. I just realized: I clicked on Wip-OCR automatically, just now. Thought I'd clicked on UnMod, and got very confused.

If OT is any good, I'll stick around for it, of course, but really, part of what made UnMod a great place was its essentially-unmoddedness. Not the porn, that's not what I mean - just the way you could post just about anything. It got abused, sure, but it also was part of the culture. People that abused it, by community consensus, would be ridiculed until they either stopped or left.

Of course, .org is just as modded as OT will be. And I have this feeling I might like the OT mods more than the .org mods. So really, UnMod-as-we-knew-it is gone for good. Which is sad, cause it's been my primary home on the intarwebs for the past... geez, 4 years or so.

[Aninymouse]

Even though I've been coming to OCR for about four years, as you can see I only have made about 160 posts. I'm your typical lurker: dropping in often to see what's up but not being a big participant in all the goings-on. I know I can't be the only one. So, even though what I have to say isn't worth as much as the words of a patriarch like The Coop or Ori or any of the other "big names," this thread grabbed me as important enough to warrant a post.

After about 20 minutes of trying out different ideas, I've come to the conclusion that Coop basically has said all that was on my heart to begin with. I belong to lots of very different internet communities, but when I think of the OCR forums I think, "good people, deep history." Sure, I loved going into UnMod and reading the 4chan threads, the "wizard hat" logs, et all for a good laugh, to an extent. For one thing, you guys is good people; certainly more amiable than the average anonymouse on 4chan. So, for me, UnMod had a worthy purpose. But to be honest, deep down I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. Even though the fun posts far outweighed the particularly filthy filth, there was a lot of porn there... Could unregistered members have viewed the contents? I've been a member for so long I don't remember anymore.

Anyway, I'm getting way off topic (heh). Listen to Coop. He hasn't said anything in this thread that I've disagreed with yet, being very underdstanding and fair.

You a mod, Coop? Ought to be -- been here long enough and a nice guy to boot.

[Kitsuta]

Could unregistered members have viewed the contents? I've been a member for so long I don't remember anymore.

No, they couldn't.

If OffTop is just UnMod without the illegal stuff, I'm fine with it.

Yes.

I obviously missed a lot of interweb drama while on my way back from Magfest, so I can't really say anything about what went on there. But from the looks of things, it couldn't have been good, and it looks like there was some permanent damage. :\

[Arek the Absolute]

So did the crowd go "OOOOOOH" when they saw him delete unmod at fagfest?

[Kitsuta]

So did the crowd go "OOOOOOH" when they saw him delete unmod at fagfest?

There is an actual Fagfest, you know. Or, there was one year.

Just thought I'd point that out.

[Arek the Absolute]

Just calling it what larry did on vgf.
Also, it is a genuine question. I seriously wanna know.

[Corporal Eschebone]

Who posted the "UnMod getting deleted" picture anyway?

And who posted the middle finger picture? Does anyone even have that now?


Also:
i completely agree too. being labeled like "nothing" is painful.
Yeah; pretty much everyone in this elite social clique has said "good riddance" and directed it towards all of us UnModders. Which is really shitty, you know? You can't really blame us for thinking the staff here consists entirely of people who hate us.

[supremespleen]

blad's attitude toward us soiled the pleasure I receive from listening to his mixes. And to think this (link) (http://www.last.fm/music/Bladiator/_/Yoshi%27s+Story+O%2C+Say+Can+Yoshi+OC+Remix) is one of my top tracks on last.fm.

It's kind of like when my uncle met Dennis Deyoung, of Styx fame, and learned he was an ass.

[Kitsuta]

It's kind of like when my uncle met Dennis Deyoung, of Styx fame, and learned he was an ass.

DON'T TELL ME I DON'T WANT TO KNOW D:

I think the claims that ALL mods generalize about Unmodders is a uhm.. generalization.

Really. Stop generalizing, all of you. (lulz that was totally on purpose)

[Corporal Eschebone]

I think the claims that ALL mods generalize about Unmodders is a uhm.. generalization.

No, but most (if not all) of those who have voiced their opinions of UnMod before people like zyko and Bahamut spoke up have made negative and generalizing comments towards the whole of the UnMod community.

[Kitsuta]

No, but most (if not all) of those who have voiced their opinions of UnMod before people like zyko and Bahamut spoke up have made negative and generalizing comments towards the whole of the UnMod community.

Yeah. Like people have said before, it's been done on both sides. It's very easy to generalize, and there are a lot less moderators than UnModders so the percentages are going to be skewed.

[Corporal Eschebone]

Yeah. Like people have said before, it's been done on both sides. It's very easy to generalize, and there are a lot less moderators than UnModders so the percentages are going to be skewed.

Isn't that one reason why the staff of this site should be more careful in how they act towards this site's members (even the ones they view as "worthless")? Much of the shit that certain staff have flung in UnMod's direction only shows that they don't have the maturity and self-control that their position should demand of them. If they really think that they're mature and intelligent than we are, then they should REALLY start acting like it instead of saying, "well, you really don't contribute to this site at all seeing as how you're an UnMod abuser, so we don't give a damn what you think. Sorry! ;P"

By the way, I am 17. I should not have to tell a bunch of college-age jerkoffs to act more mature. It should be the other way around.

[supremespleen]

By the way, I am 17. I should not have to tell a bunch of college-age jerkoffs to act more mature. It should be the other way around.Heh, I'm 17 as well.

Pretty silly that some of us young'uns have been acting more mature. :rolleyes:

[Xelebes]

Isn't that one reason why the staff of this site should be more careful in how they act towards this site's members (even the ones they view as "worthless")? Much of the shit that certain staff have flung in UnMod's direction only shows that they don't have the maturity and self-control that their position should demand of them. If they really think that they're mature and intelligent than we are, then they should REALLY start acting like it instead of saying, "well, you really don't contribute to this site at all seeing as how you're an UnMod abuser, so we don't give a damn what you think. Sorry! ;P"

By the way, I am 17. I should not have to tell a bunch of college-age jerkoffs to act more mature. It should be the other way around.


Just so you know, we've been trying to correct such things, but emotionally wound up people don't exchange the best of words.

[Corporal Eschebone]

Heh, I'm 17 as well.

Pretty silly that some of us young'uns have been acting more mature. :rolleyes:

Maybe... Depends on how immature it is to make fun of Pixie's nose.


Edit: Oh yeah, and I'm still curious:

Who posted the "UnMod getting deleted" picture anyway?

And who posted the middle finger picture? Does anyone even have that now?

[wormguy]

I am vastly disappointed.

[TCK]

Who posted the "UnMod getting deleted" picture anyway?

And who posted the middle finger picture? Does anyone even have that now?http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=203120&postcount=193
http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=203121&postcount=194

I saw the middle finger photo before it was deleted. Wasn't too great.

[The Coop]

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=203120&postcount=193
http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=203121&postcount=194

I saw the middle finger photo before it was deleted. Wasn't too great.

Are those people OCR staff members?

[Corporal Eschebone]

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=203120&postcount=193
http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=203121&postcount=194

I saw the middle finger photo before it was deleted. Wasn't too great.

...Those pictures are really infuriating, because it's so obvious what Pixie was thinking when she posted those pictures. Same goes for everyone who crowded around DJP when he deleted UnMod. They just had to rub it in, didn't they?

Wonderful.


Edit: Yes Coop, and the captions identify zircon, Bahamut, and of course DJP himself. Probably more than just that, but I can't tell.

Edit2: Figured the Pixie roleplay was inappropriate, so... yeah.

[Bahamut]

Are those people OCR staff members?

djp is in the photo on the very left, as well as me, rama, pixie, and zircon. It was a joke photo, although some did take it a little seriously in its posting (which is why it shouldn't have been posted and has been deleted from the original post since). Notice Rama has his hands up, someone had the \m/, and I wasn't even really looking at the camera (I am a lazy fucker - I was lying down).

[anne amère]

rofl how the fuck did I outlive UnMod?

[Señor Quetzalcoatl]

Well, I didn't know those pics had been posted in this forum. Even more, that they were kept and not removed. If the whole issue is hostility when certain unmodders posted pics or fanfic of her (I'd personally never go that far), why aren't those pics considered hostile? The intention of them is quite clear despite the "sorry guys, all in good fun" disclaimer. Such disclaimer would never work in favor of unmod's case.

Bah. Whatever. This is pointless. I will just check for remixes, and maybe, maaaaaaaybe check off topic, depending on who stays.

[Corporal Eschebone]

rofl how the fuck did I outlive UnMod?

You didn't actually break any rules, maybe?

Sorry Yami, but it's the truth. :(


Edit:
Well, I didn't know those pics had been posted in this forum. Even more, that they were kept and not removed. If the whole issue is hostility when certain unmodders posted pics or fanfic of her (I'd personally never go that far), why aren't those pics considered hostile? The intention of them is quite clear despite the "sorry guys, all in good fun" disclaimer. Such disclaimer would never work in favor of unmod's case.
QFE. This is just sad.

[foxstomp]

I've been visiting OCR since it was orange, though lurking the forums for far less long. Poking my head into unmod for some quick laughs, and even the occassional interesting thread was one of the few reasons I check out OCR anymore. I was really shocked (but, honestly, not too surprised) to log in the other day, and find it gone.

At any rate, I doubt it means much, but I'm sorry you guys lost your forum. At least you made one random lurker laugh, I guess.

[atmuh]

rofl how the fuck did I outlive UnMod?

you are still the best poster ever

[The Coop]

djp is in the photo on the very left, as well as me, rama, pixie, and zircon. It was a joke photo, although some did take it a little seriously in its posting (which is why it shouldn't have been posted and has been deleted from the original post since). Notice Rama has his hands up, someone had the \m/, and I wasn't even really looking at the camera (I am a lazy fucker - I was lying down).

Can't imagine why it would be taken seriously, considering it makes it appear everyone involved was just having a big laugh over what would undoubtedly upset and anger a lot of people on OCR... especially considering who posted them. I have to admit to feeling a good amount of disappointment in, and lessened respect for, those cheery looking folks when I saw it.

[anne amère]

I miss the Hollow Man thread.

I hope Arek archived it....

[Black Starre]

...Those pictures are really infuriating, because it's so obvious what Pixie was thinking when she posted those pictures. Same goes for everyone who crowded around DJP when he deleted UnMod. They just had to rub it in, didn't they?

Wonderful.

Yeah, it definitely... Well, whatever. As for it all being in good fun- considering how strongly people felt about that forum, very poor judgment if it was meant as anything other than a big middle finger. If that is what it was, I'm not sure if this is a place I want to be. Don't know if I'd be welcome at .org, since (as I keep saying) I was never a strong presence in Unmod. But in any event, I need to think about whether or not I'll be continuing to post around here- not that it matters, since I assume I don't contribute anything.

[Fritz the Cat]

Time to rape someone with a beer bottle, I think...

[wormguy]

UnMod always gave me a good laugh. I don't think anything will ever be able to replace it. .org would just feel like a cop-out now.

[Corporal Eschebone]

At any rate, I doubt it means much, but I'm sorry you guys lost your forum. At least you made one random lurker laugh, I guess.

Yeah... There's honestly not a lot of people (if any) who understand what that forum meant to us regulars. And it's not so much the deletion itself, as has been stated before, but more the way in which it went out. This may sound cheesy, but I feel the forum hasn't been given a proper goodbye - a point which the posts linked to above only reinforces. I'm sure a lot of UnModders feel the same way. Sure, the community will still be around at .org, but it'll never be what it once was - and this last blow will leave a deep and indelible scar on the very spirit of UnMod.

I mean, shit, I've been going to that forum for 3.5 years. I can only be expected to have sentimental feelings towards it, even if it WAS just a forum on the internet. The community was unique, and I have to wonder if there's any community anywhere that even came close to it. It's not something that any outsider would be able to comprehend. You had to participate in it to appreciate it, and you had to be connected to it to love it.


Well, I guess that'll count as my eulogy to UnMod. Requiescat in pace.


Edit: Goddammit, last time I felt like this I was watching Elfen Lied.

[shpladoink]

Your missing the point. I could talk about dumb kiddy topics all day. What really show maturity is the fact that people here don't get in lame trivial arguments and end up calling eachother gay.

THAT'S the reason I left GameFaqs. People can't even spell correctly there, let alone keep up fun conversations.*giggle*
Notice how I am not calling you gay, though.


If OffTop is just UnMod without the illegal stuff, I'm fine with it.
There really wasn't much illegal stuff at all in unmod, save for the occasional linked mp3 or torrent. Posting pictures of penises may be objectionable to many, but it isn't illegal (unless you're underage). Regardless, the amount of that type of content had actually been dwindling in unmod's final months of existence.

Those that think that Unmod was just a bunch of shitcockery and devoid of intellectual conversation are sadly mistaken, and, as Coop pointed out, probably didn't spend enough time there to find out what it was all about.

I understand the need for unmod to grow up with the site, but it's the attitude over the past week or two that's making OCR unappealing. I don't feel wanted here, at all.I definitely got that feeling as well. Pixietricks' comment about fading away etc. really brought the feeling to a boil, though. So I threw some pasta in the pot and had a delicious meal.

I don't hold anything against the mods unless they do something to warrant my displeasure, and PT's post was really the only one to do that in a very long time.

*sigh* enough ranting. Also see this post I made (http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?p=212941#post212941).


e-dit: wow, i hadn't seen those "deleting unmod" pics. it makes me sad in my soul-chan.

[Señor Quetzalcoatl]

I just came to this thread again to see shpladoink's sig. :)

[wormguy]

Well, apparently I missed a lot of drama prior to and directly after the deletion of UnMod. Thus, I feel utterly confused and kind of unwanted by this decision. We saw some bad times with UnMod, sure... the sidebar fiasco and the like. But I don't see how anything UnMod could have done would warrant a deletion... it seems like an extremely drastic measure.

I like Shpladoink's idea of a non-.org option for UnModders, but I'm afraid that the community has already been fractured irreparably.

So...goodbye, UnMod. It was fun while it lasted.

[djpretzel]

This topic deserves a response from yours truly, and I apologize for not making one sooner. I'm a bit sick, and when I'm working in DC I have limited access to the net.

Of everyone in the room that wished UnMod gone, I was probably the most reticent about its deletion, however ironic that may be. I knew that 95% of its usage was indeed disposable, and that it did have a good number of people who didn't even listen to and or care about video game music or OCR in general, but used it as a dumping ground for... whatever.

The 5% is what gave me pause. It's what made me check with Larry to see what he thought, and it's why deleting the forum in the fashion that we did honestly did seem like bad form to me. Did I succumb to peer pressure? In a sense... however, the mods and site staff are more than peers, they're people who spend more time on the site than I do, who contribute above and beyond to it, and when all of them recommend something and none of them object, it's less about peer pressure and more about trusting people you respect.

I knew there were legitimate users of the forum. I knew there were probably proponents, as Dhsu and The Coop have proven, that could articulate its merits, and who would oppose deletion without any warning whatsoever. This probably didn't bother anyone else in the room, but it did bother me. The counterargument against warning was that it would cause a massive backlash and that the other forums would suffer the consequences. That ended up happening to an extent, regardless, as poor Shariq was forced to mass-moderate an influx of inappropriate materials following UnMod's deletion. In a way, this validated the argument that advance warning wasn't such a great notion, but I still apologize to the few & proud legitimate visitors to the forum who wouldn't have reacted inappropriately and who deserved advance warning.

UnMod was originally formed so that those who wanted to bitch and moan about how much of a saucy asshole I was could do so, provided they didn't flood, spam, or troll. Somehow, that notion devolved into a place where people with almost no interest in OCR posted random shit. While a good deal of that random shit occasionally amused me, and there was some real keeper hentai posted, ultimately the more appropriate form of the forum is for discussion of topics not directly related to games, anime, or music, which are the three topics General Discussion focuses on.

As a side note, yes, it's a little goofy to think that anything can be "off-topic" to "general" discussion; we might find a way to semantically clarify this discrepancy further.

We're waiting to create the "Off-topic" forum specifically because we don't want the appearance of simply renaming UnMod. We want to start from a clean slate, encourage threads like "and it made me smile" and similarly popular but also substantive conversation, and discourage using OCR as the forum equivalent of Sanford & Son's backyard.

Is that a feasible goal? Are ANY of the 5% of UnMod's cooler folks that actually do give a damn about OCR going to stick around after their home has been abruptly ripped out from underneath them?

I don't know. I hope so. I do know that it wasn't my goal to make OCR "classier" by deleting the forum, but rather to alleviate stress on the part of the moderators, to eliminate what had largely become a dumping ground for people not remotely interested in OC ReMix, and to create a new forum that would allow for the best of what UnMod had to offer but with moderation in place to prevent anarchy.

[shpladoink]

I like Shpladoink's idea of a non-.org option for UnModders, but I'm afraid that the community has already been fractured irreparably.
That is where you are wrong, my wormy friend! I have contact info for most of the unmod regulars, and we are still alive and, sadly, in need of a new home. The main gripe I have with .org is the ultramod status that resides there. Basically, if whoever is a mod at the time doesn't like what you post, it's gone. What we're looking to do is provide a place for the unmod guys and girls that still want to do what they used to do and have fun. Of course, it won't be the same, but if it works the way I expect, the sense of community will remain intact.

[wormguy]

That is where you are wrong, my wormy friend! I have contact info for most of the unmod regulars, and we are still alive and, sadly, in need of a new home. The main gripe I have with .org is the ultramod status that resides there. Basically, if whoever is a mod at the time doesn't like what you post, it's gone. What we're looking to do is provide a place for the unmod guys and girls that still want to do what they used to do and have fun. Of course, it won't be the same, but if it works the way I expect, the sense of community will remain intact.

Well, that makes me feel better. Keep me posted.

[BigBoss]

Is that a feasible goal? Are ANY of the 5% of UnMod's cooler folks that actually do give a damn about OCR going to stick around after their home has been abruptly ripped out from underneath them?


I know I am, but I'm still on the fence about Off Topic. I'm really staying, or rather, visiting, for the remix forums - I ask for help when I need it.

[Zombie Jim Morrison]

This topic deserves a response from yours truly, and I apologize for not making one sooner. I'm a bit sick, and when I'm working in DC I have limited access to the net.

Of everyone in the room that wished UnMod gone, I was probably the most reticent about its deletion, however ironic that may be. I knew that 95% of its usage was indeed disposable, and that it did have a good number of people who didn't even listen to and or care about video game music or OCR in general, but used it as a dumping ground for... whatever.

The 5% is what gave me pause. It's what made me check with Larry to see what he thought, and it's why deleting the forum in the fashion that we did honestly did seem like bad form to me. Did I succumb to peer pressure? In a sense... however, the mods and site staff are more than peers, they're people who spend more time on the site than I do, who contribute above and beyond to it, and when all of them recommend something and none of them object, it's less about peer pressure and more about trusting people you respect.

I knew there were legitimate users of the forum. I knew there were probably proponents, as Dhsu and The Coop have proven, that could articulate its merits, and who would oppose deletion without any warning whatsoever. This probably didn't bother anyone else in the room, but it did bother me. The counterargument against warning was that it would cause a massive backlash and that the other forums would suffer the consequences. That ended up happening to an extent, regardless, as poor Shariq was forced to mass-moderate an influx of inappropriate materials following UnMod's deletion. In a way, this validated the argument that advance warning wasn't such a great notion, but I still apologize to the few & proud legitimate visitors to the forum who wouldn't have reacted inappropriately and who deserved advance warning.

UnMod was originally formed so that those who wanted to bitch and moan about how much of a saucy asshole I was could do so, provided they didn't flood, spam, or troll. Somehow, that notion devolved into a place where people with almost no interest in OCR posted random shit. While a good deal of that random shit occasionally amused me, and there was some real keeper hentai posted, ultimately the more appropriate form of the forum is for discussion of topics not directly related to games, anime, or music, which are the three topics General Discussion focuses on.

As a side note, yes, it's a little goofy to think that anything can be "off-topic" to "general" discussion; we might find a way to semantically clarify this discrepancy further.

We're waiting to create the "Off-topic" forum specifically because we don't want the appearance of simply renaming UnMod. We want to start from a clean slate, encourage threads like "and it made me smile" and similarly popular but also substantive conversation, and discourage using OCR as the forum equivalent of Sanford & Son's backyard.

Is that a feasible goal? Are ANY of the 5% of UnMod's cooler folks that actually do give a damn about OCR going to stick around after their home has been abruptly ripped out from underneath them?

I don't know. I hope so. I do know that it wasn't my goal to make OCR "classier" by deleting the forum, but rather to alleviate stress on the part of the moderators, to eliminate what had largely become a dumping ground for people not remotely interested in OC ReMix, and to create a new forum that would allow for the best of what UnMod had to offer but with moderation in place to prevent anarchy.

Before I leave, I just want to say that this was a pretty classy and well-handled response, and I respect you for that.

[Eulogic]

I would both like to second djp's hopes and expectations for Off-Topic as a bright new land and a golden age for not only that forum, but for the entire site, as well as state that I think the name "Off-Topic" is both appropriate and aesthetically pleasing, and I hope that it is not changed.

[The Coop]

This topic deserves a response from yours truly, and I apologize for not making one sooner. I'm a bit sick, and when I'm working in DC I have limited access to the net.

Of everyone in the room that wished UnMod gone, I was probably the most reticent about its deletion, however ironic that may be. I knew that 95% of its usage was indeed disposable, and that it did have a good number of people who didn't even listen to and or care about video game music or OCR in general, but used it as a dumping ground for... whatever.

The 5% is what gave me pause. It's what made me check with Larry to see what he thought, and it's why deleting the forum in the fashion that we did honestly did seem like bad form to me. Did I succumb to peer pressure? In a sense... however, the mods and site staff are more than peers, they're people who spend more time on the site than I do, who contribute above and beyond to it, and when all of them recommend something and none of them object, it's less about peer pressure and more about trusting people you respect.

I knew there were legitimate users of the forum. I knew there were probably proponents, as Dhsu and The Coop have proven, that could articulate its merits, and who would oppose deletion without any warning whatsoever. This probably didn't bother anyone else in the room, but it did bother me. The counterargument against warning was that it would cause a massive backlash and that the other forums would suffer the consequences. That ended up happening to an extent, regardless, as poor Shariq was forced to mass-moderate an influx of inappropriate materials following UnMod's deletion. In a way, this validated the argument that advance warning wasn't such a great notion, but I still apologize to the few & proud legitimate visitors to the forum who wouldn't have reacted inappropriately and who deserved advance warning.

UnMod was originally formed so that those who wanted to bitch and moan about how much of a saucy asshole I was could do so, provided they didn't flood, spam, or troll. Somehow, that notion devolved into a place where people with almost no interest in OCR posted random shit. While a good deal of that random shit occasionally amused me, and there was some real keeper hentai posted, ultimately the more appropriate form of the forum is for discussion of topics not directly related to games, anime, or music, which are the three topics General Discussion focuses on.

As a side note, yes, it's a little goofy to think that anything can be "off-topic" to "general" discussion; we might find a way to semantically clarify this discrepancy further.

We're waiting to create the "Off-topic" forum specifically because we don't want the appearance of simply renaming UnMod. We want to start from a clean slate, encourage threads like "and it made me smile" and similarly popular but also substantive conversation, and discourage using OCR as the forum equivalent of Sanford & Son's backyard.

Is that a feasible goal? Are ANY of the 5% of UnMod's cooler folks that actually do give a damn about OCR going to stick around after their home has been abruptly ripped out from underneath them?

I don't know. I hope so. I do know that it wasn't my goal to make OCR "classier" by deleting the forum, but rather to alleviate stress on the part of the moderators, to eliminate what had largely become a dumping ground for people not remotely interested in OC ReMix, and to create a new forum that would allow for the best of what UnMod had to offer but with moderation in place to prevent anarchy.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, but I do have to disagree with the advice you were given.

Some of what was said in other threads regarding the abrupt deletion, centered around not being able to save the things that people wanted to... to archive the various threads, images, etc. Another part, was indeed the suddenness. One second it was there, the next, it was gone. For some, that came off as a considerable lack of respect towards the folks posting in UnMod. These things, coupled with the "retrobans" that were going on, and the on-going process of people trying to find out why they were banned (and possibly get unbanned) just fueled the reaction. It was like dumping lighter fluid on the fire that was still burning from the bans over the previous few weeks.

I can honesty say, I don't believe there would have been nearly the reaction there was, if people had just been given warning. Everyone knew it was going to be changed, so its eventual disappearance wasn't a hidden truth. I feel some of the folks there underestimated us. Of course, I guess it's a dead issue now.


As for Off Topic, I share your hopes of making it a good place. While there's still a lot of blanks left in terms of what can and can't take place there (image threads like "Holy Hot Asian Girls Batman!" and "Boobies", nudity in general, nonsensical threads like "What are you eating now?", etc.), I'm hoping a lot of what made UnMod fun to read and take part in will still be retained. I know thread breaks, Image Bombs, ROM links, loli, torrents of music that's for sale, and their ilk aren't allowed. But right now, I believe there are a lot of people waiting to see what will be allowed. I know I'll still be here, but others are sitting on the fence waiting for that info.

[SilentHinata]

I love you coop.

[SilentHinata]

Oh, and by the way, me getting a temp ban for "spamming" and posting on 8 threads is a JUST A LITTLE retarded.

[OverCoat]

and there was some real keeper hentai posted

GLAD I COULD HELP ( ﾟ ヮﾟ)

[Corporal Eschebone]

Gragh, once again Coop shows his boundless wisdom before I got a chance to get my thoughts together. Damn you, Coop!

Still, it's nice to know that you care, DJP. <3 But I hope that you'll come to comprehend all that's happened so you'll know why we feel the way we do. The bannings, the powertrips, the dickery on IRC, the way we interpreted the pictures Pixie posted of the party, and the way UnMod went out as a whole... It's all too much, you know?

[The Vagrance]

This topic deserves a response from yours truly, and I apologize for not making one sooner. I'm a bit sick, and when I'm working in DC I have limited access to the net.

Of everyone in the room that wished UnMod gone, I was probably the most reticent about its deletion, however ironic that may be. I knew that 95% of its usage was indeed disposable, and that it did have a good number of people who didn't even listen to and or care about video game music or OCR in general, but used it as a dumping ground for... whatever.

The 5% is what gave me pause. It's what made me check with Larry to see what he thought, and it's why deleting the forum in the fashion that we did honestly did seem like bad form to me. Did I succumb to peer pressure? In a sense... however, the mods and site staff are more than peers, they're people who spend more time on the site than I do, who contribute above and beyond to it, and when all of them recommend something and none of them object, it's less about peer pressure and more about trusting people you respect.

I knew there were legitimate users of the forum. I knew there were probably proponents, as Dhsu and The Coop have proven, that could articulate its merits, and who would oppose deletion without any warning whatsoever. This probably didn't bother anyone else in the room, but it did bother me. The counterargument against warning was that it would cause a massive backlash and that the other forums would suffer the consequences. That ended up happening to an extent, regardless, as poor Shariq was forced to mass-moderate an influx of inappropriate materials following UnMod's deletion. In a way, this validated the argument that advance warning wasn't such a great notion, but I still apologize to the few & proud legitimate visitors to the forum who wouldn't have reacted inappropriately and who deserved advance warning.

UnMod was originally formed so that those who wanted to bitch and moan about how much of a saucy asshole I was could do so, provided they didn't flood, spam, or troll. Somehow, that notion devolved into a place where people with almost no interest in OCR posted random shit. While a good deal of that random shit occasionally amused me, and there was some real keeper hentai posted, ultimately the more appropriate form of the forum is for discussion of topics not directly related to games, anime, or music, which are the three topics General Discussion focuses on.

As a side note, yes, it's a little goofy to think that anything can be "off-topic" to "general" discussion; we might find a way to semantically clarify this discrepancy further.

We're waiting to create the "Off-topic" forum specifically because we don't want the appearance of simply renaming UnMod. We want to start from a clean slate, encourage threads like "and it made me smile" and similarly popular but also substantive conversation, and discourage using OCR as the forum equivalent of Sanford & Son's backyard.

Is that a feasible goal? Are ANY of the 5% of UnMod's cooler folks that actually do give a damn about OCR going to stick around after their home has been abruptly ripped out from underneath them?

I don't know. I hope so. I do know that it wasn't my goal to make OCR "classier" by deleting the forum, but rather to alleviate stress on the part of the moderators, to eliminate what had largely become a dumping ground for people not remotely interested in OC ReMix, and to create a new forum that would allow for the best of what UnMod had to offer but with moderation in place to prevent anarchy.

Finally, someone on the staff who gives a thorough and well-thought out response about the matter without saying how terrible Unmod was and how there was nothing worth saving.

[RocketSniper]

Coop for forum president!

[Gollgagh]

Finally, someone on the staff who gives a thorough and well-thought out response about the matter without saying how terrible Unmod was and how there was nothing worth saving.

Haha, the staff?

I think you mean "The Boss."

[Shas'vre]

First off I'd like to publically apologize for spamming GenDisc earlier. Second, I'm forced to agree with my esteemed colleagues here in saying that any sort of forum intended to replace Unmod really won't do the job. The forum's deletion has rent a gash in the old Unmod populace that won't soon heal over; I doubt it ever will. Unmod is gone for good, but fragments of it can still be found in places like Gerbilfat and .org.

[Kureejii Lea]

Nice to hear that from you, djp.

The bannings, the powertrips, the dickery on IRC, the way we interpreted the pictures Pixie posted of the party, and the way UnMod went out as a whole... It's all too much, you know?

Indeed. I think it actually bothers me on priciple more than it does personally (despite that I'd been a part of UnMod since 2002 as well as helping run a site project for almost two years now). I'm sorry, but I have to say that the recent behaviour of certain individuals has come off as petty, immature and, frankly, disgusting. It really shouldn't have come to this.

[Kingpun]

I'd like to thank Eulogic for the maturity of his response to this situation. I think optimism like his is what we need in order to reforge OCR forums into a strong community with a good focus on what this website is really about.

[The Instrument of GAWD]

It's still ass tho'. The emotional damage has been done, ya know?

[zircon]

Guys, regarding the middle finger picture, for one thing the photo wasn't even pixie's idea. Neither was posting it for that matter. She *resisted* as a matter of fact, contrary to what you might think! Everyone except one or two people in the room was going along with the fun and several people even took the same picture and were going to post it (I don't think they've actually gotten around to uploading anything yet).

No sense in pinning the blame on just her. Everyone (including her) is ready to move on here, as Bahamut and Dave stated.

Edit: Jose and fivre both posted pretty much the same series of pictures.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5945/img0480eb9.th.jpg (http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0480eb9.jpg)
Oh boy, Dave's deleting UnMod! Moguta, Darangen, Bahamut D-Lux, pixietricks, someone I forget, and what are probably parts of Taucer and Mephisto's heads anxiously look on.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/778/img0482jy2.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0482jy2.jpg)
...Damn tubes are clogged.




djpretzel tells us the story of UnMod's creation... (http://bronxrican.com/stuff/misc/mag-un-1.jpg)

...then we all say goodbye to it. (http://bronxrican.com/stuff/misc/mag-un-2.jpg)

[WesPip]

I'd like to point something out that probly won't be responded to, but I feel the need to point it out nonetheless.

In a sense... however, the mods and site staff are more than peers, they're people who spend more time on the site than I do, who contribute above and beyond to it, and when all of them recommend something and none of them object, it's less about peer pressure and more about trusting people you respect.
The problem with this is, while they all agreed with each other than UnMod had to go, it's because none of them are UnModders. Had you on your staff any UnModder [though to be fair, virtually none would be suitable, but The Coop comes to mind], then I'm quite sure there would've been a vocal and concise set counterpoints presented (Liontamer and Darkesword were the closest things the community had to "UnModders" as far as mods go, and obviously neither was one at heart). While I understand that UnMod would, despite being "unmoderated", create more work for mods, I find it hard to believe that it was substantial, based on how little of what was posted was actually illegal and/or in direct violation of UnMod's rules and as such not necessary work for a moderator [and, once again to be fair, we did have a LOT of shit to sort through to find the good stuff, but we did so individually, not with the help of moderation].

I suppose the main point here is, of course they all wanted it deleted, as none of them made their homes there (or even visited those disfunctional relatives who had).

However, I still find it considerate of you to take the time to explain your decision in more detail than the other staff had so far been willing or able to do. So thanks for that, at least.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Sorta late to the party, but I wonder if I need to f'n moderate myself now.

BTW, WTF is .org? Not that I really care anyway.

I sorta saw this coming a mile away. I thought it'd happen earlier though.

[pak2rat]

I'd like to point something out that probly won't be responded to, but I feel the need to point it out nonetheless.


The problem with this is, while they all agreed with each other than UnMod had to go, it's because none of them are UnModders. Had you on your staff any UnModder [though to be fair, virtually none would be suitable, but The Coop comes to mind], then I'm quite sure there would've been a vocal and concise set counterpoints presented (Liontamer and Darkesword were the closest things the community had to "UnModders" as far as mods go, and obviously neither was one at heart). While I understand that UnMod would, despite being "unmoderated", create more work for mods, I find it hard to believe that it was substantial, based on how little of what was posted was actually illegal and/or in direct violation of UnMod's rules and as such not necessary work for a moderator [and, once again to be fair, we did have a LOT of shit to sort through to find the good stuff, but we did so individually, not with the help of moderation].

I suppose the main point here is, of course they all wanted it deleted, as none of them made their homes there (or even visited those disfunctional relatives who had).

However, I still find it considerate of you to take the time to explain your decision in more detail than the other staff had so far been willing or able to do. So thanks for that, at least.

I agree. I have been a lurker for a while, occasionally making posts. I found a home on Unmod and visited frequently. People complained about the fad threads, but those were half the fun. Last week, I logged on and noticed many of the popular posters getting banned. There was no warnings of a crack down, no satisfying explanations, and it seemed... cold. My question here is, do the other staff members have a heart? Did they feel any sympathy at all? Have they no shame? I've read this and not seen any real sense of caring from anyone other than DJP. I've lost much of the respect I used to have from the apparent callousness of much of the staff as they do not explain why they advised DJP to delete the forums.

There also seemed to be a lack of empathy. How would Gen Discers feel if tomorrow, without warning, THEIR home is deleted? In my opinion, OCRemix FAILED as a community. to quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community ...

"Social capital

Main article: Social capital

If the sense of community exists, both freedom and security exist as well. The community then takes on a life of its own, as people become free enough to share and secure enough to get along. The sense of connectedness and formation of social networks comprise what has become known as social capital.[3]

Social capital is defined by Robert D. Putnam as "the collective value of all social networks (who people know) and the inclinations that arise from these networks to do things for each other (norms of reciprocity)." Social capital in action can be seen in groups of varying formality, including neighbors keeping an eye on each others' homes. However, as Putnam notes in Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community (2000), social capital has been falling in the United States. Putnam found that over the past 25 years, attendance at club meetings has fallen 58 percent, family dinners are down 33 percent, and having friends visit has fallen 45 percent.[4]

Western cultures are thus said to be losing the spirit of community that once were found in institutions including churches and community centers. Sociologist Ray Oldenburg states in The Great Good Place that people need three places: 1) The home, 2) the workplace, and, 3) the community hangout or gathering place.[5]

With this philosophy in mind, many grassroots efforts such as The Project for Public Spaces are being started to create this "Third Place" in communities. They are taking form in independent bookstores, coffeehouses, local pubs and through many innovative means to create the social capital needed to foster the sense and spirit of community.[6]"

We felt secure in our Unmod, with our friends and enemies alike. There were good times and bad times, but that is what makes things great. This was our place to meet. We knew each other, mocked each other, and supported each other. To those that have the "good riddance" mentality, is our community REALLY that different than Gen Disc? There are minor differences, but that is bound to happen. Gen Disc and Unmod are places for us to BS. Unmod is simply a NC-17 version of Gen Disc.

To those that believe OT will fix things, you are sadly mistaken. The bans have created much bitterness in the Unmod community, leaving us feeling ostricized and oppressed. The freedom we enjoyed so much is now at an end as many will be paranoid of future bans, taking away that final thing that we dedicated our community to: Freedom.

As for the pics, they were in VERY bad taste, regardless of intent. I'm on that complains about people being to easily offended, too. It takes a LOT to find something offensive. I don't know about the rest of my fellow Unmoders, but I would like following:

1) Reason the pics were allowed to be taken.
2) Reason why the pics were posted.
3) Reason why there is no public apology for the pictures.

I see a severe lack of accountability on this issue. All that contributed to the pics ended up pouring salt in a deep wound, creating a bigger gap than the society on this site has ever known. It is time for them to stop making excuses and just admit it was not in good taste and act like a mature adult about it.

I'm ashamed at ALL sides in this issue in the fact that the staff refused a compromise on the matter to save the society of OCRemix, to the Gen Discers that are pouring salt on the wounds, and the Unmodders that fueled the justification of the deletion of Unmod.

[Vig]

The problem with this is, while they all agreed with each other than UnMod had to go, it's because none of them are UnModders.

For what it's worth (not much, obviously) I have been a vocal advocate for UnMod as a community and a forum for a long time. In the end this didn't amount to anything because literally NONE of the mods are sympathetic to the very concept. An unfortunate elitism, a prevailing attitude that people who post primarily in unmod are less important than the rest of the OCR fanbase, coupled with the understandable prejudice caused by interacting with "unmod" almost solely when retards would venture out to cause trouble has formed an OCR mod staff that has really no sympathy or understanding for unmod at any level.

It's unfortunate. This has been a large part of the reason why things have been so out of control lately (the other part being that lots of people in unmod have reacted in an immature and unproductive manner). Dave's post doesnt suprise me at all. He has always been a bigger fan of unmod than anyone on the mod staff. As someone who has appreciated the unmod community over the years, I do have high hopes for offtop.

And for the record, I think Coop would be a fantastic mod for that forum, and I have reccommended that he be considered for the position.

[WesPip]

For what it's worth (not much, obviously) I have been a vocal advocate for UnMod as a community and a forum for a long time. In the end this didn't amount to anything because literally NONE of the mods are sympathetic to the very concept. An unfortunate elitism, a prevailing attitude that people who post primarily in unmod are less important than the rest of the OCR fanbase, coupled with the understandable prejudice caused by interacting with "unmod" almost solely when retards would venture out to cause trouble has formed an OCR mod staff that has really no sympathy or understanding for unmod at any level.

It's unfortunate. This has been a large part of the reason why things have been so out of control lately (the other part being that lots of people in unmod have reacted in an immature and unproductive manner). Dave's post doesnt suprise me at all. He has always been a bigger fan of unmod than anyone on the mod staff. As someone who has appreciated the unmod community over the years, I do have high hopes for offtop.

And for the record, I think Coop would be a fantastic mod for that forum, and I have reccommended that he be considered for the position.

Yes, I agree fully with this. If only you were "more" than a judge and were also a moderator.
'Course, being just a judge is still preferable to a judge with delusions of mod-itude *cough*.

[skywalker6705]

Thank you for an honest response to this DJP. I know you probably were as irked about it as many of us, and we all knew it had to happen sometime.

If he would ever want it, I would be 150% behind The Coop as a mod for the new Off-Topic. He knew what UnMod was about, and could help guide the board. Maybe give him the vbbulliten equivalent of +voice.

It's the staff reaction to the removal that made most of us upset. You knew what you were deleting. The staff didn't, and that's why they wanted it gone. It WAS a huge source of trouble for the site, and I know it was probably something that all the mods could have functioned more smoothly without. But I think it's this same aversion to it that kept any one of them from knowing what they wanted to take away, other than spam and trolls.

I'm don't want an apology from anyone. I'm not that arrogant. But I don't want to invest my time in a part of the community again if it will be destroyed when it becomes an inconvenience to those that don't even use it. The site needs to somehow give faith to the new members of Off-Topic, and those that left for UnMod.org and those who have left here already, that even IF Off-Topic goes insane, it won't just disappear as well. Otherwise why write in the Epic Story? Why show each other Nice Work, if it's only garbage to the mods?

I hope the next time I may unknowingly irk a staff member, or accidentally double post, etc., it doesn't result in one of the aggressive bans that have been occurring after this incident. Even if some of these users were under alts, or were unmodders, why does it matter if the content of their posts was sound? If they were starting shit, fine, but I was doing no such thing. And I was quite rudely shut down. I know I'm not the only one that was caught un-fairly under a ban. The mods need a little more patience with us former UnModders.

And on an incredibly more minor note: I lost almost ALL my posts when the deletion occurred, so I know I look more n00bish than anyone.

[Vig]

Yes, I agree fully with this. If only you were "more" than a judge and were also a moderator.
'Course, being just a judge is still preferable to a judge with delusions of mod-itude *cough*.

The idea was thrown around a looong time ago. Ultimately there arent enough hours in the day. While I do care about how the community forums are administrated, I already spend way more time than I ought to thinking/talking about it, and really the panel, voting on remixes, setting the bar, and discussing musical policy, is WAAAY more important to me than forum administraiton could ever be. I loved the unmod community and was active in it periodically, but ultimately I'm here for the music.

At some point down the line it might be important enough to me that i would want to be a community forum mod, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I may also add that at first, I did trash and troll shamelessly on Unmod. At first. But I also contributed to WIP for a bit in the same time as well, giving constructive criticism along the way. And I agree with the posters who say that they see Unmod and Gen Disc as the two sides of a same coin. Maybe that's why I saw it easy going to both forums and having fun either taking OCR seriously or not.

I can sorta understand the decision to delete Unmod at face value. If they were using up bandwidth or were actually making a real effort to "overthrow" the site's claim to fame as a game music oriented site.

But at the same time, I do think the situation was handled very badly. I mean, it wasn't as drama-filled and crazy even compared to the banfests of Something Awful when I was there. At least they punished the individuals who were on bad terms with that site. Not a whole segment of the community and do it so abruptly.

I must admit, I didn't care at all for Unmod at first. But I do see it now that it served as an outlet of sorts for OCR. Again, I can see why the decision to delete it was out there. But it didn't have to be so politically charged and come from a string of small controversies like this.

[WesPip]

But I don't want to invest my time in a part of the community again if it will be destroyed when it becomes an inconvenience to those that don't even use it.
That's essentially what I was getting at with my post, though this sums it up quite succinctly.
How can one weigh the pros and cons of something when they only bother noticing the cons, right? As melodramatic as it is, UnMod was something of a family, albeit a disfunctional one, then some random G-Man comes and exterminates them. Imbalance at best.

[Dagda Mor]

II found the site about four years ago, joined the forums two years after that. I was active once or twice but was mostly a lurker for the year and a half after that, then really joined up last september. Unmod easily drew tha majority of my posts simply because it had the vast body of the threads that I found interesting and engaging. My perspective on the friction involving unmod and gendisc was that much of unmod was a jerk about it in a joking sort of way, and that the judges & co. might have done something to bring on this semi-serious ire but if so there wasn't clear evidence. I didn't care enough to do any real investigation, as I had no intention of participating.

I never would have been one to sing unmod's praises before its deletion- my comment on the issue would have been "It's not really this scary, horrible place if that's been your impression. There's some crap, sure, and they can be caustic; but it's hardly a high price to pay, and there's some really quality stuff there as well. I don't know any other forum like it." I've always seen myself as an outsider, one of the people who use the forum and the site and contribute where they can but aren't yet involved in the larger community.

In the end, however, I think I took unmod for granted. It's when I consider my experiences and read through the well-written posts by Coop and Wacky that I find myself agreeing- Unmod was a unique community that had a surprisingly mature nature when you looked beyond the intentionally mature behavior- that's evident just by comparing the posts by the two sides in the post-deletion debate. Only after it's deletion did I turn into this activist, writing these page-and-a-half posts and doing all I can to try and get those who seem so opposed to unmod to reconsider and maybe even recreate the forum.

When you say that 5% of unmod's usage and users were valuable. . .my initial response is to be offended. That number is a matter of opinion, so it's not like I can call it wrong. But I know I'm far from the best 5% of unmod's users, even with humility and self deprecation put aside*, and can still say I did nothing to deserve being labeled as worthless.

Making the best effort I can to be fair and balanced about this, to remember all the bad of unmod along with the good, my honest opinion on the matters discussed in djp's post is this: Your community of trusted friends, whom I do not doubt are decent people I'd like to meet myself, failed to provide you with unbiased advice. The danger you were warned against was exaggerated (I believe greatly so, but with my knowledge I'm not qualified to say that much), and your decision to delete unmod was a very poor one. I'm really, honestly sad to see it go; I will stay and try to contribute to off-topic in order to salvage what I can, but it will no longer be unique and on top of that will be missing members who were driven off by the unfair manner in which the community's authority handled this whole debacle.

*In which case I put myself in the top 20% in terms of quality but not quantity

[Arias Serathe]

What a nice thing to come back to after vacation.

Farewell, Unmod-chan, and goodnight.

[andyjayne]

to archive the various threads, images, etc.
Some of them are temporarily archived at the old forums, I'm not sure how much of it is salvageable though. http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=4

[Bummerdude]

UnMod has always been some kind of secluded community. You could talk about casual things, make threads that was simply based on a joke, picture or youtube link, and overall have a fun conversation with those you knew. No matter what others say, unmod was a forum that was characterized by joy, laughter and humorous jokes. The overall comments could be cruel, but we wasn't offended since we knew that nothing that was ever said shouldn't be taked seriously.

Problems occurred whenever a noob or a poster that was unaware of UnMod´s existence strolled in, made some posts but then took offence when we came and said such things like "Lurk moar", "GTFO n00b" or offered a delicate image of a goatsee or tubgirl. But, that was our way to handle things. If they couldn't take it, then Gendisc and PPR was there for them to post in instead. Rumors of what a horrible place UnMod began to spread through the site, and we played along with it. However, trying to discuss whether UnMod was a bad or a good place would inevitably end in failure, since we all saw it through different perspectives and angles. It was a place where we could hang out and talk and do whatever we want. When a n00b came along and disrupted the balance, we would approach them and see what kind of fellow this was. If he happened to be cool, we would accept him. If he wasn't and instead started to complain about how awful we were, he would get flames up his nose.

Eventually, the Sidebar showed up as a giant pillar on the left side of the screen, and many got annoyed by it. That in turn led to anger, and in the end, massive bannings. And now when we switched to VBulletin, the new forum restrictions such as no namechanges, no quote nexuses, no full caps, 10 charcater limit and other details resulted into many complaints, since we now couldn't post in the same way as we used to. And that ended up in the same way as the Sidebar, massive bannings but with more feelings behind this time since the mods didn't show enough symphathy to our situation.

I guess we could have avoided some of this, but not all of it. In the end, I kind of knew that UnMod wouldn't stay around much longer, since our behaviour was for our own best, not for the site's. True, if we just went to .org, then we could keep on posting as we always had, but personally I felt that I wanted to stay on this site, on the UnMod we had here. Call it pride, call it whatever you want, but moving to .org wouldn't exactly be the same. The only problem now is that moving to .org might be the only solution right know, since Off-Top won't have the same features as the original UnMod did. I will still stay though, but it will require some surfing on two forums at the same time since pretty much all the others are at .org.

To describe UnMod as "nothing" would be inaccurate, a lie, and an insult. It was in that specific forum that the OCR culture was taking place. The birth of Nice Work Guy, Koga Shuko and other funny image macros happened there, events that would be remembered forever took place on that spot. Lines such as "Who's _____? Sum n00b" was created there, and I can probably go on forever about my memories that I've stored during my time I've spent there. To me, UnMod was a fun community where I could always go to get a good laugh, but also to inspire me when it came to sigs or just to have somehting to do for 1 hour. It was the first forum I've ever been to, and I'm glad that I ended up there. I am an UnModder. And I'm proud of it.

These was just merely thoughts that I've had during this period, it doesn't necessarily need to be accurate. Feel free to ignore it, but i needed to get it off my chest.

And on an incredibly more minor note: I lost almost ALL my posts when the deletion occurred, so I know I look more n00bish than anyone.
You joined one month ago, don't think you can stop being a n00b that easily.

[Kawaiininjakat Haruspex]

I'm glad you were able to post a genuine reply DJP but I'm still very sad. I've known you since 1999, while under a different username and I suppose at the time a different face, and I can't believe you bent to peer pressure. Sure you respect those people, but it seems like a lot of those people now are either new and just can't understand, or already hated unmod to begin with, what do they really know about the history of this place. You can tell it to them by word of mouth, but if they never lived it, they sure as hell aren't going to respect it. I can remember the time before there was an unmod, or a mass exodus of pissy remixers who all upped and went to vgmix, or a judges panel or any of this and how it went down, and it just doesn't seem right. Unmod may have turned into a dumping ground and I don't agree with many of the things that went down there, but it became the attraction to the site and it made people want to stay. There was a sense of community there unmatched anywhere else on the internet. It made people feel like they belonged to something big, and I don't think many people get that.

I'll always respect you, as you certainly have run one of the most successful sites, the kind of internet fame that some people would sell their left nut to have, but I think that the burning of both sides will leave a massive scar on OCR. One can only hope that Offtop some how covers up most of the more obvious damage.

[Smoke]

I'd like to add a bit from my point of view, having been a moderator since mid 2003:

I was never really for Unmod's deletion, I'd have preferred it if there had been some way to get rid of all the stupid shit and keep the good parts. Hell, I used to post in Unmod for quite some time, and was in charge of the NWG archive for a while too. I left it partially because some people decided it was a good idea to shit on the site staff, and because I found better places to post and enjoy myself.

There's also been some pretty bad generalizations in this topic, and a few things I'd like to address.

The staff not present at Magfest was unaware of Unmod's deletion until after it happened. We didn't have anything to go by. We were caught by surprise just as much as the members(Or at least I was) Same goes for the banning of Ayres.

Yet people decided that their best option was to charge on those who had little knowledge of the actual situation, because they just happened to be around. Not the first time this happened, and somehow I doubt it'll be the last.

Thanks to my job, social life, and not having been feeling too well for the past week or so, I've been out of the loop a bit on a few occasions(Such as the retroactive banning situation) This has also affected my responses in a few cases. Doesn't help if you're the only mod around who has to deal with everything at some points, as it can get rather stressful. I'm sure at least one of you plans to go "Lol internet serious business" at this. Go ahead, it doesn't change the fact that some things are indeed serious business to some. There is a level of responsibility involved in this job which is rather easy to miss.

To be honest, I considered quitting the site staff around the same time Darke decided to actually leave, and for what I'm pretty sure are similar reasons, and other reasons(Such as being held responsible by some for everything that happens on the site, and being expected to explain everyone's decisions)

In the end, I've decided that it's better to stay on and help, even if the job of moderator is a rather thankless one. We get much more comments on what we do "wrong" as opposed to when we do something "right". There's a lot the general audience of the site doesn't see because it's taken care of in time, and there's no credit in that.

I'm not gonna try and defend every action we've taken, because that's rather impossible(Partially because there are actions I don't/didn't agree with, but can see a reasoning for)

Finally: It rather surprises me that when others say pretty much the same thing about the upcoming Off Topic forum that I've been saying for a few days now, they suddenly seem to accept it.

[Coffeeholic]

There were lots of people in unmod who cared about the music on the site and enjoyed it, including myself.

The ratio wasn't nearly 95/5, as djp said, but more like 75% that cared vs. 25% that didn't.

[Syl]

I started coming to OCR for the music.

I started posting in unmod due to curiosity and entertainment.

I eventually stayed for the community.

I knew it couldn't last, this was never really a "shock" to me. I tend to find a group of people whom gets comfortable with doing things without rules, and eventually we just get too comfortable and once the rules do appear; they go overboard. This recently happened where I hang out at college, and it's mirrored as the deletion of the unmods. Although the latter was a far bigger community.

While the community has been slowly degrading for the past couple of months... It was indeed what i felt was "our" section of the internet. I know that we had no place on OCR; considering how little we eventually had to do with music or videogames. Although that was mainly a farce; we all knew that we knew about videogames. We all had certain hobbies and things in familiar. Despite how "disconnected" unmods appeared from OCR; almost everyone who posted there *originated* from OCR regardless. We had stuff in common, part of the reason that LOL INTERNET and everything else we did made a sort of sense.

You could post a picture of a hot as hell asian chick, followed by a picture of a "cute girl"; round it out with an obscure videogame reference in the form of an mspaint guy being raped by a bee with a cock and end the day while contemplating the serious questions in life like "...and it made me smile" or asking for relationship help in the sex ed thread. The latter two were taken seriously for the most part.

It's a place that really made no sense to anyone else; which is why we got so comfortable i suppose. But the unmods were the section of the internet i frequented for 3 fucking years; and seeing it cruelly and quickly removed like that just felt like a bitchslap to pride and community.

[Sir_NutS]

yay for more drama.

I'd say, I've been coming here before the orange ocr days, for both the music and the forums, and I've come to dislike more and more this place. I can see why darke resigned and why smoke almost did though. It's sad, they're of the few people that do a good work and are close to the little community sense that is left here.

Anyways good luck with the offtop thing, All that is left for me here are the compos like PRC, and that only happens twice a month so that isn't much. Also, LOL @ the unmod deletion pictures, hadn't seen those before. If that's not fueling up the fire by offending the few good unmodders, I don't know what is.

[Raziellink]

Oh boy, i've been away from OCR for a few days, and this happens!

Though i didn't participate on any discussion going on in Unmod, i'm kinda sad that it's gone. It was always good for great laugh now and then. :)

[Bahamut]

There were lots of people in unmod who cared about the music on the site and enjoyed it, including myself.

The ratio wasn't nearly 95/5, as djp said, but more like 75% that cared vs. 25% that didn't.

Seeing as how many people went on childish flood abusing and troll responsing, I would say it's at least 50% who didn't care or are at least misguided about what OCR is about. I don't even want to know what it would've been like with advance notice, especially considering the lack of maturity that some exhibited and are known for. It also makes it incredibly hard for anyone to make a full and complete response to the legitimate complaints like djp made when some people do things like that. Even when I have posted that some of us have apologies to make and we will make a public one soon, people still continued with the same generalizations, and the same assumptions that some of us have made and which got us into this big mess in the first place. People need to calm down and try to understand the rationale on both sides without preconceived notions before getting angry childishly (this goes for everyone, not just you, not just me).


Just to add about the deletion of Unmod, this was not only an unanimous agreement by the moderators, but with many of the judges (if not all), and from what I see has long been planned. The timing was what we were not necessarily in agreement with. I do remember voicing concern that we shouldn't do anything like such while a good portion of the staff was at MAGfest, although in retrospect I should have held to that concern. Knowing what some of Unmod is like, I feared quite strongly that there would be an incredible concentrated backlash if there was advance notice - not necessarily by some of you, but definitely by some of the others who have been known to do despicable things. I do agree that there should have been more preparation, but I do not agree with some people's sentiments that the new forum should have been up - there were a lot of people who were angry at the deletion because they never thought Unmod would be deleted, and took it for granted. We want the new forum to be without any preconceived notions after things calmed down, yet with a lot of the freedom that Unmod had (minus the despised activities). For an example, I know Unmod did some of the trolling because of the newbies they didn't want there - what some of what those newbies have done wouldn't fly in the new forum, and will be handled via moderation.

[Tardigrade]

So, where are you going to go now? .org isn't a replacement so much as a temporary measure, from what I've seen. And nobody can stay in the closet forever.

[The Mutericator]

As thankless as the mods job may be, you're picked because of your ability to handle it. It's like the people who try to pass off Clinton's extramarital affairs by pointing out how stressful the job of President is - that's why people picked him (in theory), because of his ability to handle those pressures and make the right decisions.

I can't speak as an Unmodder - I mostly lurked and only ocassionally posted, preferring to watch and learn from veteran members. I really can, however, vouch for the sense of community shown by the Unmod clan - a clan that all but completely excluded DJP's advice-giving moderators. I think instead of simply deleting Unmod or listening just to people outside it, it would have been a good idea to have a discussion with some of the more mature members - The Coop, once again, springs to mind - and to talk to them about what DJP thinks is bad about Unmod and why it's still there, what the merits of Unmod are, et cetera. Yes, Off Topic may have some of the same stuff, but the community may or may not be there. If it doesn't immediately get a strong start, I think many of the Unmodders who are lurking and waiting to see how it goes will leave, and then OffTop will ultimately fail.

In a best-case scenario, everyone from Unmod comes back to OffTopic and keeps the best stuff - the community, the hentai threads, the ... and it made me smile threads, et cetera. In an okay-case scenario, the Unmodders leave, but a new community forms in its place. In a worst-case scenario, OffTopic becomes simply a slightly-less moderated GenDisc, provoking debates about its reason for existance in the first place.

Thus, I have one suggestion, which I'd like all the members to weigh in on - if Unmod was backed up before it was deleted (hopefully it was), can some of the more famous topics - you know the ones - be moved over to Off Topic at its creation? I'm sure that by this point that OffTopic itself is already there, just not visible to normal members (the sudden disappearance of many gaming-related threads from GenDisc implies such). Help OffTopic to be what it should be - the best of Unmod, without the "crap" - by giving it a headstart. Don't make everyone restart all the old topics again, that just leads to confusion and aggravation.

(If Unmod wasn't backed up before it was deleted, the old forums still have many of the same topics, albeit a week or two out of date - they could simply be imported again into OffTop.)

[Merk]

So if UnMod was deleted because "no one" contributed, and Off-Topic is by definition NOT about video games and music, then what's to prevent the same thing from happening again?

[Bahamut]

Unmod was backed up (everything gets backed up before any changes are made to the forums).

I don't think the off topic forum is made yet though - we have yet to decide on the final name and completely on the rules (there has been some protest over the no porn heh, and we have to revisit talks about deleting PPR or not), although some have requested we leave the name as Off Topic.

There's a good amount we're going to make solid here in the next few days, so
if anyone has any input, feel free to post it.

So if UnMod was deleted because "no one" contributed, and Off-Topic is by definition NOT about video games and music, then what's to prevent the same thing from happening again?

It's true that that problem may be there, but it always is, and OCR would be quite bland with just a Gen Disc when people are more than just about those things. We don't want it to be as separate a community as Unmod was though. More staff interaction, more of the good stuff of Unmod, and more of the jdgh8 that we all cherish.

[Merk]

and more of the jdgh8 that we all cherish.
Even if the judge is Pixietricks? What about modhate?

[Bahamut]

Even if the judge is Pixietricks? What about modhate?

Well, jdghate is in good fun, and she can appreciate that. I've gotten modhate as it is so pour it on! I'm a shtymodfgt.

[DrumUltimA]

bahamut YO USUCK

[pak2rat]

Looking at the past 2 pages, I've noticed something else... Fear. This fear is less from being banned now to OT being deleted if it is seen as "worthless" to the staff as well. All that OCR once had is now gone. There is no respect anymore. Retro banning, the pictures, lack of user input, and deleting while several staff members were away all point to a general lack of respect, which is a pillar in many communities. If we lack respect, how can OT be successful?

[The Mutericator]

Unmod was backed up (everything gets backed up before any changes are made to the forums).

I don't think the off topic forum is made yet though - we have yet to decide on the final name and completely on the rules (there has been some protest over the no porn heh, and we have to revisit talks about deleting PPR or not), although some have requested we leave the name as Off Topic.
Wait, then what happened to the Wii and DS and PSP and other topics? Slightly off-topic, but it is sort of relevant.

[andyjayne]

Wait, then what happened to the Wii and DS and PSP and other topics? Slightly off-topic, but it is sort of relevant.
They're still there, you're probably viewing the threads in alphabetical order rather than chronological.

[Señor Quetzalcoatl]

They're still there, you're probably viewing the threads in alphabetical order rather than chronological.

I'm also having trouble with that. It keeps resetting to alphabetical for me, won't stay chronological. grrr!

[Bahamut]

I'm also having trouble with that. It keeps resetting to alphabetical for me, won't stay chronological. grrr!

Yeah, ironically djp went to sleep just before this problem happened: ( .

[Koelsch1]

I want to accuse people of being Cylons and Cylon collaborators. Will I be able to do this in the new Off Topic board?

[bladiator]

OK, to everyone that thinks now that I've labeled them as "useless" and "nothing" ... is an "Unmodder" the only thing you are? What about a regular user here at the OCR forums? All of the people involved are not what I was glad to see go. It was the forum itself.

Do you know how dangerous that place was for my work browsing behind? Someone would want me to go check out something there for real, and the next thing I know I'm looking at chicks with dicks or a tentacle rape and I'm scrambling for the X button. For a place that seems as uber-legitimate as it does (OCR) on the outside, when I saw Unmod it just gave it a filthy feel. But not the people of Unmod. I NEVER said that.

Maybe it's just because I'm a old-skool moralistic bastard. Who knows? Is it the death of Unmod itself if the act is cleaned up? Or can the fun keep going? Can't you have a "And it made me smile..." thread still? I mean, I'm just hitting the tip of the iceberg of Unmod I know, but I don't have enough room to talk about all of it.

All in all, please accept my apology and know that I appreciate the PEOPLE of Unmod a whole lot. My own main man TO lurked in that dungeon all the time. Even if he is an Aussie.

[Shadow Wolf]

It's been a hell of a week. In 5 years I don't think I've ever seen quite so much excitement here, except maybe the 350 dollar hat thread and the great sidebar war of '06. But seriously, as confusing as it is to sort out all the issues, UnMod needed to go. There was definitely fun to be had there, but overall the forum had almost nothing to do with OCR. I think its deletion bothers people simply because it was the redheaded stepchild we hid in the basement for so long that it felt right to have it there.

But OCR isn't a site for posting porn, trolling, etc. And if Dave allows that to grow, we'll be just like the GameFAQs forums in a couple of years. Nobody wants that. Nobody. NO. BODY. I have been suprised by the amount of banned members and locked threads, and I'm not sure I agree with retrobanning in certain cases (i.e. You did something evil 4 years ago and now you're screwed), But truth be told, the mods have had a fairly good reason for every thread they've locked, consolidated, or moved. It's incredibly difficult for even a group of people to maintain order on a forum this active, especially because none of us like having our intarwebs stepped on. But the culling is necessary, because there's a huge amount of adbots, spambots, trollers, and generally mean people that simply detract from whatever thread they post in.

Hopefully it'll settle down after the wheat is removed from the chaff, but it's gonna be hairy for awhile. But I think the mods are doing a good job. I also don't believe the judges are Nazis for that matter. Furthermore, the site belongs to Dave, and I say hooray for keeping the original vision in view. The timing of the deletion might've been (read: was) rather bad, but deleting a forum like that is never gonna be pretty So keep on keepin' on, shtymod/jdg/djpfgts.

[Sir_NutS]

Maybe it's just because I'm a old-skool moralistic bastard. Who knows? Is it the death of Unmod itself if the act is cleaned up? Or can the fun keep going? Can't you have a "And it made me smile..." thread still? I mean, I'm just hitting the tip of the iceberg of Unmod I know, but I don't have enough room to talk about all of it.



That's the problem with most people that are glad to see unmod gone.

But I've talked enough about the unmod deletion topic. Bring on offtop, if it fails, well, we'll always have that thing we rarely use but that could come in handy in cases like this, it's called "Real Life"

[Koelsch1]

The timing of the deletion might've been (read: was) rather bad,

Timing and circumstances. In a hotel room with Mephisto and some asian kid sitting next to DJP saying "Do it! It will totally ROCK!" You know who behaves like that? Cylons.

[Doulifée]

Personnally i'll be glad to have a version of unmod without all the fad thread, flood and random porn we were used to found. I have nothing against the boobies thread or the eichi thread, we need to keep that type of stuff in a thread rather than randomly showing of everywhere. And i understand blad, about save browsing at work.

Anyway my enjoyement in unmod was coming from imms, sigmaking, and random talk about stuff that are not VG, anime, music related.
I'm sad about the deletion of unmod too, but it's done. The show must go on. the old unmod i liked and used to know was gone after the sidebar for me, so unmod was just agonizing since then.
I just put my expectation in Offtop, because unmod was moderated during it's last day anyway.

[Shadow Wolf]

You know who behaves like that? Cylons.

I guess you got permission then?

[Plasmaigus]

i got banned from unmod.org and i m not happy plz unban plasmaigus or die

[Shadow Wolf]

Mmmkay. If you can get banned from unmod.org, you should probably just go home.

[Bahamut]

Timing and circumstances. In a hotel room with Mephisto and some asian kid sitting next to DJP saying "Do it! It will totally ROCK!" You know who behaves like that? Cylons.

Yeah, I'm just sum n00b.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

UnMod gets deleted. a ton of people leave.

I think a lot of the problem for the staff is realizing that OCR is actually not as impressive as so many think. Look at how many people came here just for UnMod. Doesn't that speak about the rest of the place? The balls have been cut off and now people are waiting for the last of the blood to drip.

[Bahamut]

UnMod gets deleted. a ton of people leave.

I think a lot of the problem for the staff is realizing that OCR is actually not as impressive as so many think. Look at how many people came here just for UnMod. Doesn't that speak about the rest of the place? The balls have been cut off and now people are waiting for the last of the blood to drip.

Or, it could speak about how many people visit this site. This site is far more known than people seem to think - the mirrors and the main site move ~6 TB monthly after all for good reason. One could argue that it wouldn't dent the audience at large with a look at some of the stats.

But again, this is irrelevant to the points of discussion, and really is just a petty comment.

[Shadow Wolf]

Umm.... no. As a site dedicated to video game remixes, OCR is a vastly impressive accomplishment, with a vibrant community of semi-sentient musicians, artists, and plain old human beings, with prices starting in the 300's. As a back alley cesspool where people come to troll, post porn, or start flamewars, I'm afraid it's rather lacking at this point. If you want that, I recommend going here (http://www.unmod.org), where the majority of unMod has gone anyways, and where I will continue to go when I feel like doing dirty deeds on the internet.

[Black Starre]

While it's good that the discussion is ongoing, some aspects of it are more constructive than others.

Unmod is gone- I'd be willing to place a large bet (on myself in round 1) (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Futurama#Why_Must_I_Be_a_Crustacean_in_Love.3F) that it ain't coming back. And even if it was restored, miraculously, resurrected before our eyes- it wouldn't be the same. Because of the people that have already jumped ship entirely, or decided they'll never come back, etc. Also, the aforementioned fear of losing it all again is major. What happened made a very real rift in this place as a whole.

So, how to fix that? I don't know if you really can. You can't rebuild what Unmod was. It's gone forever. Offtopic will be a different place, and maybe, over time, it can attain some of the things that made the deletion of Unmod such a sad event.

I'm going to try and get involved in it when it shows up, and I'm very interested to see what develops. It won't be Unmod, but it will hopefully become its own place, if it is allowed to do so. I enjoyed the random silliness that Unmod had, but regrettably I never got involved in the deeper aspects. I wish now I had, but maybe I can contribute to something like that in OT when it arrives. I do hope that things like photo caption contests, random image threads, etc. are allowed to thrive.

Anyway, I think we need to move from saying what was wrong about this- we all know that. Nothing can be done to fix it. All we can try and do is aspire to make OT a place with a history of its own, and ensure somehow that what happened to Unmod doesn't happen again. Even so, it will be a while before people can forget that they lost a part of the net they considered home. That doesn't just get better overnight, even with apologies, new forums or whatever else. It takes time, more than anything, and that's what was really lost and can never be replaced- the time people spent making Unmod what it was, good and bad. If you notice, a lot of these posts look something like euologies. That says quite a bit.

Now an exception to what I said about the complaints- part of the process of getting past it, for some, may be saying how much the deletion sucked- then so be it, I say, do what you have to. But if it's just pointing out what was wrong for the sake of saying how it was wrong- well, I think we all realize that errors were made, on both sides.

Anyway, I just think we need to look forward and be constructive. This post is just to say what I think I'll do and how I'm feeling about it, not really to give much advice- it isn't my place to speak for anyone else. I hope OT can be a place I want to spend time in, and I hope I can help make it that kind of place- but we won't know for sure until we see what's allowed and what isn't, and who will be there. So until then I'll just wait and see. I will say, though, that I hope to see many of you there.

Perhaps even the shtymodjdgfgts. ;)

[Avatar of Justice]

I was always under the impression that part of what made OCR's forums good was UnMod and it providing a place for all the stupidity to be isolated. I never contributed to it and just looked at the image threads. Oh well, there's the rest of the Internet, but most of the image threads were pretty good filters for the rest of the Internet.

[Corporal Eschebone]

I don't even want to know what it would've been like with advance notice, especially considering the lack of maturity that some exhibited and are known for.

I would like to point out that we did sort of have an "advance notice" when Darke mentioned OffTop before all the drama started taking place. Honestly, I don't think that many UnModders at all would have been too against the concept itself. However, with all the powertripping and disrespect coming from the mods just before the deletion of the forum, we were (and still are) naturally very skeptical that OffTop would become any more than "GenDisc 2," where the mods could ban anyone that they had a personal grudge against - Hell, I'm sure zircon wouldn't have hesitated to ban someone for trash-talking him or Pixie on UnMod despite the fact that the original purpose of the forum was to provide an outlet to bitch about DJP, of all people.

And honestly, the "retroactive banning" crap was just bull, because the mods were deliberately opening wounds from eight months ago which we thought had largely healed. Those members thought they were given a second chance for something that was really quite petty in the first place, and then when some of the mods decided on a whim to ban them without warning it became all too clear that that was merely an illusion and that some of the mods did not care at all. I hate to sound like a child, but they started it.

[SS4Matt]

Man, I want to say something that will get me banned, but I wont.

Well, I should say I want to go on a tirade and make fun of some peoples... actions... but I wont.


Damnit, I want my UnMod or OffTop... either one. As long as we can do all the same stuff we did in UnMod, except the illeagle stuff, than I'll be sorta happy.


Also, making fun of the mods, or anything like that, should NOT be bannable in OffTop. Offtopic is, after all, offtopic(lawls, and UnMod really was UnModerated. --_--)

[Eulogic]

Man, I want to say something that will get me banned, but I wont.

Please, don't stop on our account.

[SS4Matt]

Please, don't stop on our account.

You know, I know a lot of folks here either don't like me(A couple) , just give me shit to have something to do(more people), or are meh about me.

I was REALLY thinking about starting a trend in my posts... and I might. It depends on his crappy OffTop and Gendis is.

[megadave]

Oh my god. Are you serious? What happened?! (not sarcasm) Holy shit. I haven't been around much. Can someone slap me please?

[Joppew]

Though a lot of shit went down and a lot of it was bad, things might not be so bad. The .org community isn't new Unmod, but something else which is good in itself, and time might prove that the deletion of OCR unmod was actually beneficial to .org. If off topic fulfills any of the potential it has, I think most of what used to constitute unmod would be catered to.

Now, if I understand things correctly (and feel free to correct me if I don't), this OT forum is made without direct relation to the primary activities and intents of OCR, or to phrase it differently: more of a community forum, and the its reason to exist is that it is people who make up OCR. People who not only wish to discuss topics more or less related to music or gaming, but all sorts of things with their friends they made through the common ground OCR has provided.

Anyway the whole point of this is make it more clear where I'm coming from with the point I'm so painstakingly slowly am trying to make. If we have a staff who automatically asumes that discussing the future (or non-future as it were) of a community with what constitutes it would lead to more bad things than just suddenly ripping it away there is no possibility of making this off topic work in the long run. Converesly it's not that good if parts of the community nurtures a culture of resentment towards the staff simply because they cannot see the many positive things they do for the community. As many have pointed out much more eloquently than I can, one of the reasons things got this tense was due to the lack of interaction between the staff and large parts of the community.

This leads me to a suggestion: In the forming of the new forum, why not let those who intend partaking in it have an active role in its forming? I know that there are some things that necesarily cannot be allowed, and that neither djp nor anyone else has some sort of obligation to the community, but I really think that inviting the future users of OT to have a say in what it's going to be about before its launch would help to alleviate some of the tension between staff and parts of the community. It would also probably help promoting a mutual understanding of what "the other side" wants from the new section of the OCR forums. Hopefully there won't even be a need of such dichotomous descriptions of the situation in the long run.

For example the users of OT could be allowed to have opinions on who moderates it, or what additional rules to the absolute minimun that is required there should be.

[supremespleen]

Wow, look at all the cats posting that were just unmod lurkers.

Hey guys, sup?

[megadave]

Well, good for those who don't care, but coming from a part-time unmodder, this sucks the balls of King Kong.

Yes, there was a lot of gross and disgusting crap there, but there was a lot of quality and fun there too. Sometimes you have to crawl through shit to get to the good stuff, and that was the case with unmod. And the best stuff ever was on unmod, not gendisc. Crazy pictures, random topics that usually don't make any sense, fad threads - it's all good stuff.

Hell, gendisc, was cool a few years ago, but I've slowly watched it decay to this, and it grew even worse when PPR was created, which resulted in most fun topics crawling to unmod and PPR.

So a big boo-hoo from me and a salute to what remains of Unmod. The site itself kicks ass like never before, but the forums aren't anything when compared to what they used to be - which explains why I don't post here very much anymore.

Hey, but the boss is the boss, and Pretzel busts his ass for this site, so that's how it goes.

[supremespleen]

would a topic about my misplaced nail clippers be considered okay in unmod

?

[Joppew]

Wow, look at all the cats posting that were just unmod lurkers.

Hey guys, sup?

That we didn't post a lot doesn't mean we, or at least I, didn't spend unhealthy amounts of time browsing it.

Oh, and I'm quite fine, thank you. How are you?

[Avatar of Justice]

I'm curious to see what the off-topic posts are. We have politics, philosophy, and religion covered. Games, anime, and music is covered. So, what's left? Sports and people relating random stories about themselves?

[The Damned]

And the people telling stories abut themselves will be told to go to livejournal.

Yep, that pretty much leaves sports.

[skywalker6705]

Personnally i'll be glad to have a version of unmod without all the fad thread, flood and random porn we were used to found. I have nothing against the boobies thread or the eichi thread, we need to keep that type of stuff in a thread rather than randomly showing of everywhere. And i understand blad, about save browsing at work.

Anyway my enjoyement in unmod was coming from imms, sigmaking, and random talk about stuff that are not VG, anime, music related.
I'm sad about the deletion of unmod too, but it's done. The show must go on. the old unmod i liked and used to know was gone after the sidebar for me, so unmod was just agonizing since then.
I just put my expectation in Offtop, because unmod was moderated during it's last day anyway.

Part of what was awesome about UnMod was that random x factor though. You never had to fear anything but those around you. If you posted in a fight thread that "Dudez Goku woud tottall rockz tht place!?!" then you deserved to be removed from the board. And since only DJP could do it at that time, unmod did it themselves. Otherwise, you could post whatever came to mind, without double or triple checking yourself that much. Now I have to think about "will I get banned if I argue w/ or insult ______." I think the freedom to act crazy IN the thread is one of the best parts of it. And hentai bee rape needs to be an integral part of the new forum as well.

Also, on browsing at work: Why in all hells would you browse unmod at work? That's just poor judgement. Like visiting Literotica cause you think "It's just text"

And the people telling stories abut themselves will be told to go to livejournal.

Yep, that pretty much leaves sports.

Unless it involves Bear maulings or clowns. Then we get popcorn.

[Wizards Bane]

With UnMod gone now, I just find this site to be a bit more boring now. I don't even come here for the music anymore, and chances are I'll be coming here less and less now because of it.

And the soon-to-come Off-Topic forum isn't gonna help any.

(ten character filler)

[Koelsch1]

Will I be able to talk shit about the judges/mods in the new off topic forum?

Will I be able to make silly threads accusing people of collusion with the Cylons?

[wormguy]

I'm hearing a lot of talk about people wanting Off Topic to be "The best of UnMod" and "A place that's UnMod without all of the bad stuff". But, that's where the problem lies. It was the good and the bad together that made UnMod, and when you take that part away, it becomes something entirely different. That's how I feel, anyway.

[supremespleen]

I think it'll be alright - not amazing, not suck. Certainly nothing to worry our pretty little heads about.

[Bongo Bill]

Mmmkay. If you can get banned from unmod.org, you should probably just go home.

Please. You ever been there (or, for that matter, to the original Unmod)? Anyone can be banned from .org. At least here, there are rules that you can use to sort of predict when it's going to happen.

Anyway though. I think it'll take a lot of goodwill on the part of the remaining Unmodders to turn Offtop into a good place. FORTUNATELY with this thread around, it seems that mostly the Unmodders who, y'know, have any goodwill are going to be the ones who're sticking around. This is good prospects.

[The Coop]

Well, since Bahamut suggested posting ideas here, I think I'll do just that...

-No Porn? WTF?!-

This topic doesn't seem to have been given a clear yay or nay thus far. Early posts suggested it was completely off limits, while later ones made it seem like it had yet to be decided upon. So for now, I'm going to treat this as a “worst case scenario”, and reply as if porn was not going to be allowed in Off Topic at all.

The thing here, is just what is going to be defined as "porn"? I personally don't see simple nudity (be it real or drawn) as porn. Whether it's a catgirl in her bra and panties while sitting in a sexual pose with hardened nipples, an elfgirl standing there topless in the wind, or a real woman in full frontal nudity, those things just don't come off as porn to me. What does, is anything with actual penetration... two people having sex, a woman using a dildo, stuff like that. So in my opinion, I don't see an issue with people posting nude women or men if they choose to, especially since this was generally done in designated picture threads. This would make threads like “Holy Hot Asian Girls Batman!”, “A catgirl a day...”, “Elf girls: Still Reducing Your Chances of Scoring”, and their ilk very doable in Off Topic, which would likely make some people rather happy.

Now, we get to images with someone cumming... the "money shot" stuff. While there's no penetration involved, it falls into a strange area. The same can be said regarding images of a nude guy about to climb on top of (or enter in general) a nude woman, or a woman about to jam a nine inch dildo into herself. It's not penetration, but it's as close as you can get to the moment of (be it before or after). So really, I'm not sure how to feel about it. I've personally never been a fan of the "splooge" or "here I come!" images, so I wouldn't miss them if they were kept out. But, again, since there's no real penetration happening, I know others may not see these types of images as porn. So I'll leave that area alone.

While I was typing this, I was thinking about something. What if there was a requirement for image threads to have a "May Contain Nudity" disclaimer in their title, or a symbol of some kind that means just that? Perhaps even a simple “Not Work Safe”? Then when threads are created that have the distinct possibility of having nudity in them, people would know in advance before going into those threads, and wouldn't have a reason to complain. You'd know what's there, and you'd know what may be within the thread. It would be plenty of warning for everyone. This way, if someone goes into a thread with that disclaimer, and is upset by what they saw, they'd have no grounds to make a complaint, because they were warned.

As far as the random nude image goes, I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask people to keep the nude images in the respective threads. If you're running through the "... and it made me smile" thread, and you suddenly slam head long into a nude woman/guy photo or drawing, I can understand why someone would see that as being inappropriate for the thread. If a thread that's not listed as possibly have nudity in it, suddenly gets images of nude people or characters, then those viewing the site from someplace other than the privacy of their home would have a case in regards to making a complaint. I know the argument about not browsing websites while you're at work exists, and in truth, it's a very valid argument to be made. But not everyone has a computer at home, or in their room. Some go to school computer labs and post, or the library, or perhaps even their parent's bedroom.

And of course, there are the artist threads. Over the years, people have posted images of nude characters they've drawn. Considering “Original Artwork” threads have regularly cropped up, I don't feel it would be right to tell people not to post their work there. Again, some kind of disclaimer could be used, and this way, the threads would still give people the creative freedom they've had up to this point, while letting others know that there might be nudity contained within.

So really, I don't see any problem with having nudity in Off Topic. I understand the need to make OCR more “work safe” for some forum browsers, but I don't think it should be taken to extremes. As long as it's kept in threads that give the forum users a warning about what to expect in said threads, there really shouldn't be an issue beyond the occasional poster who feels the need to randomly drop a pair a breasts or a guy's penis into an unsuspecting thread. Nudity isn't illegal (usually, with loli and bestiality being exceptions), so I see no reason for it to be outlawed.


-What nonsense-

Oh, we all remember these threads. “Exactly how many lords of the boards are there?”, “The Official Spork thread”, the “Hi” thread, the brainfuck thread... they're threads that are random, and seem to have either no real topic, or some damn odd ones. Or, perhaps they became so convoluted, that the original topic got lost along the way. Some people called them slow AIM chatrooms, others called them “wastes of server space”,. but I also know there were plenty of people who took part in them.

I don't don't see the harm in letting these kinds of threads be made. If they're interesting, or interesting conversations begin in them, they take off and lead to all sorts of fun things. If they're boring, they die off quickly and vanish from sight. Unless there's a flame war going on, or the thread's getting bombed with goatse or something, these things are harmless bits of chatter in my opinion. And in truth, there's no real reason to keep them out of Off Topic.

Then there are the many types of contest threads. Speedruns, UPC (UnMod Pissing Contest) score runs, caption contests... these were always fun. Not allowing these in Off Topic would make no sense at all.

Of course, then there are the mock threads (a thread with the same name as another one, but is completely random or nonsensical inside... like “I saw God today”, and then the first post is an image of a taco and nothing else). To be honest, I'm not sure how to feel about these. In a way, they're fad threads mixed with gibberish, but in another way, they're still basically harmless. I didn't post in these very much, and they rarely got to be multi-page threads before they died off. So in truth, whether they stay or go, it doesn't bother me either way.

Then we come to the fad threads. Having been guilty of making two or three of these, it may seem a bit hypocritical for me to say this, but... I think they shouldn't be a part of Off Topic. Sure, some of them were funny, and a few even became their own legitimate topics. But generally, they only get a few posts and just clutter up the front page. Yes, they can be good for a laugh if someone tries hard enough, but it more often than not ends up a mass of dead threads within a few hours, and then everyone has to go back and dig up the more popular and useful threads again. So in the end, I just don't see them doing much for Off Topic.

Finally, what some called the "+1" threads. "Say something about the person above you", "What are you listening to now?", "What are you eating now?"... the types of threads that have always been accused of simply being an excuse to up your post count. As strange as it may seem to say it, these are harmless. They grow quickly, yes. But they consist of simple answers and quick replies. The only time one of these became a problem, usually centered around the ones that ask you comment on a previous poster. Once in while, bickering would break out, but it usually got buried under subsequent posts before it could ever get anywhere really hostile. And besides... if there's still the 3000 reply limit, then you know these kinds of threads be deleted soon enough, and respawned with a "v2". They won't be able to grow out of control, because there'd be a set limit to how big they could get. So really, beyond irking the folks who demand nothing but substance in each thread, and as long as they don't spawn too many fad threads of themselves (What are you eating?, What are you drinking? What are you watching? What are you reading? Etc.), what's the harm? These kinds of "+1" threads are usually self contained, so I don't see an issue with them being allowed. But, I think they should have an eye kept on them so that we don't end up with fifty of them at once.


Sorry for the length, but I was trying to give my thoughts on a good number of things.

[Dahlia]

First of all, I'd like to say that I really liked various posts made on page 15 by Bummerdude, Dagda, Kawaiininjakat, and Vig. It's good to hear that djp was an advocate of UnMod. I always figured he was a cool dude. It certainly does seem like many of those in opposition to it - whether they be Judges, Mods, or plain old users - are new to the site, while the old-timers have established a familiarity with it.

Can't imagine why it would be taken seriously, considering it makes it appear everyone involved was just having a big laugh over what would undoubtedly upset and anger a lot of people on OCR... especially considering who posted them. I have to admit to feeling a good amount of disappointment in, and lessened respect for, those cheery looking folks when I saw it.

Yes, the gesture was decidedly obnoxious. But since they prefer to believe everyone in UnMod is a poster of "abusive" fiction and child pornography, I can see how some derived such enjoyment from the act.

Haha, it's somehow unsettling seeing The Coop post about penetration and dildos. I guess it took a holocaust to bring it out though.


Will I be able to make silly threads accusing people of collusion with the Cylons?

OUT THE AIRLOCK WITH THEM!

[Eulogic]

I, quite frankly, disagree with Coop. The image (a.k.a. porn) threads served little point other than to drive away potential posters who saw UnMod as nothing but a sleazehole. Many members of the subcommunities within each thread often did not interact with the greater community as a whole, and the images themselves belong on porn sites and Google image searches.

As long as what you call a "random" thread contains worthwhile conversation, I believe it should be allowed to exist. As for the postwhore threads, it depends from thread to thread. "Say something about the person who posted before you" did not contain worthwhile conversation. "Hi!" did. I do agree that fad threads have no place.

[skywalker6705]

I, quite frankly, disagree with Coop. The image (a.k.a. porn) threads served little point other than to drive away potential posters who saw UnMod as nothing but a sleazehole. Many members of the subcommunities within each thread often did not interact with the greater community as a whole, and the images themselves belong on porn sites and Google image searches.

As long as what you call a "random" thread contains worthwhile conversation, I believe it should be allowed to exist. As for the postwhore threads, it depends from thread to thread. "Say something about the person who posted before you" did not contain worthwhile conversation. "Hi!" did. I do agree that fad threads have no place.

It served two purposes:
A) To amuse unmodders, which it did
B) To amuse themselves.

And anyone deterred from entering unmod because of nudity was obviously, and is obviously, a person whom takes the internet to seriously, or is dumb enough to browse it at work.

[Eulogic]

Not really. I stayed out of UnMod for a few months because I figured UnModders were nothing but losers who looked at porn all day. Little did I realize that this was actually only a small and relatively useless section of the population.

Go to a hentai forum or 4chan.

[Red Shadow]

Do you know how dangerous that place was for my work browsing behind? Someone would want me to go check out something there for real, and the next thing I know I'm looking at chicks with dicks or a tentacle rape and I'm scrambling for the X button.
windows key + d

try pressing them ;]

[Xerol Oplan]

1) It was pretty much given that you shouldn't go to UnMod while at work/school/whatever. Anything seen there is pretty much your own fault.
2) Awesome sig, RS.

[Aninymouse]

Smoke, djp, just wanted to say that I appreciated your posts on the matter.

I, like many here, have hope for OffTopic. Personally, if the porn goes I won't mind so much. Like Eulogic said, there's always 4chan. Oh man, is there 4chan... Getting rid of lighthearted, light-headed topics, though, would kind of cut out a good 75% of the "good" Unmod. That's basically all I went there for, save some random image threads or the occasional serious discussion.

I'll be moving on to other topics, now. I've said my peice, unmod is gone, and I've moved on.

Sure, we lost some good stuff, but aside from some random banning faggotry we're all still here, wanting to interact with each other again. A lot of us, anyway.

R.I.P.

[Sauzer]

Just wanted to pop in to point out that Shpladoink's concerns about UnMod.org are pretty outdated and unfounded at this point. The administration under Nekofrog was admittedly Draconian but JtDL is a surprisingly level-headed person and as anyone around IRC would tell you, I'm about as "libertarian" moderation-wise as is possible. We're trying to make it as friendly to the worst posters as to the best (myself).

I have a great deal of skepticism about Off-Topic but I'm sure I'll end up posting there anyway.

[The Coop]

I, quite frankly, disagree with Coop. The image (a.k.a. porn) threads served little point other than to drive away potential posters who saw UnMod as nothing but a sleazehole. Many members of the subcommunities within each thread often did not interact with the greater community as a whole, and the images themselves belong on porn sites and Google image searches.

As long as what you call a "random" thread contains worthwhile conversation, I believe it should be allowed to exist. As for the postwhore threads, it depends from thread to thread. "Say something about the person who posted before you" did not contain worthwhile conversation. "Hi!" did. I do agree that fad threads have no place.

But see, "HI" wasn't a "+1" thread... it was a random thread (to me at least). While SSAtPWPBY was undoubtedly a "+1" thread with its nearly constant, quick and similar posts, the "HI" thread had conversations of all types going on within it (something the subtitle of the thread regularly reflected). I'm not fond of the whole "+1" idea either, but when it's contained within a designated thread, I don't see the harm in them. If people show some self restraint, their inclusion in Off Topic shouldn't be an issue.

Think about it... when UnMod wasn't moderated, there were really only about three types of threads like this. One was SSAtPWPBY, another was a version of "What are you listening to?", and the last was AIMMS (yes, that thread was a "+1" thread at heart, but one with a much better and uplifting purpose than the typical "+1" thread). Occasionally, you'd get a fourth one, and that one generally changed each time topically and died off after a short while. There weren't entire forum page-filling floods of them. Now we're talking about a new moderated forum. It's not going to explode into a "+1"-fest unless some folks decide to try and cause problems. And really, that will only get them warned/banned for their troubles, and their thread, deleted.

In the end, whether "+1" threads stay or go doesn't affect me. As I said, I didn't take part in many of them beyond the AIMMS thread. But I'd like to see such threads at least be given a shot in Off Topic. If it doesn't work out, or things get out of hand, then they'll be gotten rid of obviously. But I'd rather see them tried out and fail, than not given a shot at all.



As for the image threads, I fail to see how a thread with images of elfgirls and the like is going to drive people away with their mere presence. I just can't imagine posters doing anything more than rolling their eyes and going to the next thread. Plus, if we start using some kind of warning for such threads, or even combine ones that are similar (like what happened with the Catgirl/Angelgirl/Devilgirl threads), they won't be everywhere, and they'd be clearly labeled. If such a thing drives people away, then in truth, where does the problem reside... with the person who's disgusted just by the idea of such threads being there, or with the site that has those threads marked, labeled, and kept in check so people know what to expect?

They may not be to everyone's liking, but there's a lot that's not to everyone's liking. Sometimes you just have to take the good with bad, and roll with it. If the image threads don't get out of control and over done (elfgirl, elfguy, elfdickgirl, elfthis, elfthat, etc.), I'm just not seeing a reason to get rid of them.


I'm not trying to bash you for your opinion, Eulogic. It differs from my own, and I'm fine with that. I can respect it. But I honestly don't see how the presence of a few image threads like "A catgirl a day", "Elf Chicks", "Original Artwork" and such is going to keep folks from posting and listening to the remixes.

[Koelsch1]

Can't imagine why it would be taken seriously, considering it makes it appear everyone involved was just having a big laugh over what would undoubtedly upset and anger a lot of people on OCR... especially considering who posted them. I have to admit to feeling a good amount of disappointment in, and lessened respect for, those cheery looking folks when I saw it.

That photo made everyone look like douches. It really showed a lack of maturity.

[Emura]

Weird how all the interesting stuff happens when I'm away. I'm internet-less for a week and unmod dies?

I wish there was something I could add, but the Coop has pretty much summed up all I would have said, and much more articulately too. Personally, I'm feeling a bit homeless. Half (or more) of the threads there were of no interest to me, but there was a lot of solid humor and good conversation too.

Fads like ffffffffffff made me, almost literally, rofl, and in general I just found it all to be a lot of fun.

I understand that if it had to go, it had to go in the way it did: without warning. But did it really have to go?

[SS4Matt]

UnMod is dead, Long live UnMod.

Well, the spirit of it at least.

You silly Lush of an admin...er...mods you guys.

[K999]

So have the unmodders gone through five stages of grief yet?

Denial: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Anger: WTF, you motherf.....

Bargaining: (I haven't really seen this happening too much. Nor can I imagine an unmodder actually doing it.)

Depression: There is no MEANING to LIFE. First they killed Saddam and now this? Why god why?

Acceptance: LOL at internet=serious business

[Brim]

I think some did bargain, I'm not sure.
This might be hearsay

[Jillian Aversa]

I think The Coop's ideas about keeping porn softcore, within designated threads, and including a "Not safe for work" disclaimer are all very reasonable suggestions. The way I understand it, porn was never the main issue with UnMod, and played only a minor role in Dave's decision to put an end to it. Still, I would understand if he decides not to allow that sort of thing, since things could get sticky (no pun intended) if people started bending the rules. There will definitely be thorough discussion on the matter.

I also agree that fad threads should not have a place in OffTopic, as they are a waste of space and really junk up the queue. As for mock and +1 threads... It's hard to say. Some of those things were funny, but the sheer quantity of them was a little ridiculous. The classics like "...and it made me smile" are harmless and fun, but I think they should be kept to a minimum. There really is no point treating a forum like a slow AIM chatroom.

My opinion is that OffTopic should follow the general trend of GenDisc in that all threads have a productive purpose. If there are a few things that aren't officially "topics of discussion," but geared more towards posting artwork and the like (even if there’s a little porn), I see no harm in that. The problem with fad/mock/+1 threads is that they quickly become less about humor and more about increasing one's postcount. I know some of you may be thinking, "What's the harm in that?" So let me explain my reasoning.

It seems like the whole postcount phenomenon actually had a negative effect on the UnMod community, and contributed largely to our reasons for deletion, in the end. When new people joined the forum, whether justified or not, they were usually teased or told to GTFO. Because of this, they felt like the only way people would take them seriously is if they increased their postcount– and fast. While seemingly harmless at first glance, this phenomenon is what became the main catalyst for the following issues:

Flame wars: The more the n00bs posted, the more they were mocked. It was obvious that they were posting every few seconds, and that became an annoyance to the people who had been around longer, so insults were flung left and right.
Popularity contests: All anyone wants in life is to fit in. By increasing post count, n00bs and regulars alike seemed to think that they would be more accepted– or at least remembered– and so UnMod became one big popularity contest.
Mob mentality*: With everyone trying so hard to impress each other, people started to lose their individuality. Fad threads flooded the forum because a lot of members couldn't (or were afraid to) think of any original ideas. And that, my friends, is what led to this:
Abuse: The reason that UnMod was eventually deleted. At first, the abuse stayed primarily within the forum, and the mods were extremely lenient about this for a very long time. However, that "mob mentality" grew stronger and stronger with every passing day. Ultimately, it got so bad that whenever there was a major change to the site design, staff, policies– you name it– the abuse began to spill over into GenDisc and other forums. It was simply a headache to have to deal with this level of immaturity. People started complain about the changes, the moderation, the remixes, and the staff as though they were entitled to do so with no consequence– and publicly, in the clean forums! Of course not everybody in UnMod took part in all this, and we all recognize that fact, but the only solution we could find to this problem of abuse was to create OffTopic.
OffTopic as a new forum is out attempt at compromise, I assure you all! It would be impossible to please everyone, but it’s our best shot, and I hope those mature enough to understand the situation will give it a chance. Nobody intended to bulldoze your home on the internet– just provide a reasonable substitute. If you are one of those people that simply needs a place with no rules, you’re out of luck. The abuse had to go in the end, because unless Dave hired 20 extra mods to police the forums, it would have been a physical and emotional headache for the entire staff. We want OCR to be a welcoming place for everyone... everyone who is willing to play nice around these here parts. ^_~

I think most people are willing to admit that there have been some mistakes made in the process of this transition. Nobody knows how or why the writer’s thread was deleted, but it was clearly an accident. A few people may have been banned who did not necessarily deserve it, but you must understand that the whole alt account business is confusing, and the mods are looking into it as we speak. If everyone could have a little faith that we are sorting things out to the best of our ability, I think OffTopic will turn out just great!

*(As a side note, I believe this "mob mentality" is also what caused the site staff to overlook some valid issues during our transition that a few of the more thoughtful posters have now brought forth. It is not exactly reasonable to accuse us of lumping everyone together, when it was clear that an enormous proportion of UnModders could not think for themselves, and abused the forums together as an entity. We have always acknowledged that there are exceptions, and apologize to any and all of those who did not take part in the trouble.)

[I-n-j-i-n]

I do not understand how a community just chatting it up and having fun is considered "un-useful" as it is constantly stated.

Unless the board etiquette of flooding and overt image bombing isn't used, just keeping it within reason isn't so bad.

[Jillian Aversa]

I do not understand how a community just chatting it up and having fun is considered "un-useful" as it is constantly stated.

Unless the board etiquette of flooding and overt image bombing isn't used, just keeping it within reason isn't so bad.
As I just attempted to explain in my TLDR post :p...

We all want to keep it within reason. The "un-useful" thing isn't a problem in and of itself; it's that too much junk encourages people to post for the sole purpose of increasing their postcount. And that's what caused all those icky things I listed above, which resulted in UnMod's end.

[atmuh]

My opinion is that OffTopic should follow the general trend of GenDisc in that all threads have a productive purpose.

Looks like I have no place in off topic.



From your description it appears it will be quite....boring.

[Black Starre]

As I just attempted to explain in my TLDR post :p...

We all want to keep it within reason. The "un-useful" thing isn't a problem in and of itself; it's that too much junk encourages people to post for the sole purpose of increasing their postcount. And that's what caused all those icky things I listed above, which resulted in UnMod's end.

That is understandable. However, I think it's important to remember that "productive" and "useful," as they pertain to threads, are relative terms. After all, I can see how one could deem PPR, Gendisc and the upcoming OT, as utterly useless and non-productive and be correct.

As Coop pointed out, it is difficult to define where certain threads fall- it would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater- to employ a tired cliche.

[hhallahh]

Um, I don't think anyone ever posted in Unmod in order to increase their post count in order to gain respect.

[wormguy]

This is all wrong, and almost insulting to UnModders. Fad threads originated because we couldn't think for ourselves?

With all due respect, are you fucking kidding me?! Fad threads were created because it was an UnMod meme. End of story.

All threads should have a productive purpose? Define productive. Back in UnMod, if a thread made me chuckle, it was good enough to exist. I think most of us are afraid that Off-Topic is just gonna become Gen-Disc #2.

I think maybe some of the mods mistook general UnMod mischief as post-whoring. But that's just one more piece of evidence that shows the people who authorized the deletion of UnMod just didn't understand what was going on.

[Eulogic]

OffTopic as a new forum is out attempt at compromise

I would like to underscore this point. There are intelligent (former) UnModders and OCR staff members, yet it often feels like there is a huge wall separating them. Despite a lot of the recent events that, on the surface, appears to have widened the chasm, I also feel like, especially on IRC, the lines of communication have been opening up.

Even on the boards, I feel like both sides realize that they have necessarily acted with their best judgement the past few days, as evident in many posts in this very thread, and I think both sides, whether they were involved in the recent happenings or not, wish to make amends for any sore spots between the two groups. In summary, I think a cohesive OCR community is best for the site and for its members.

[The Coop]

Actually Pixie, from the things I watched, join dates and post counts weren't the source of all that much.

Post count increases were more of a joke than anything else. People with large post counts were being called postwhores and told "You have no life", as opposed to being considered people to look up to, or "the elite". There's a reason the phrase "You're not your post count" has been floating around UnMod for a long, long time. And really, even join dates were used more in a sarcastic way than as a legit weapon. When someone from say 2004 would comment, "UnMod sucks compared to how it was when I joined", that's when someone from 2003, 2002 or earlier would comment along the lines of "How would you know? You joined after it was already shitty".

Perhaps in the beginning, post counts and join dates were used against people with real intent. But by the time 2005 was over, anyone referencing post counts and join dates as a means to discount someone's comment was making a joke, and not being serious. Sure, some of the newbies took the comments seriously and got offended or upset, but that was more a result of not being able to detect the sarcasm, than actual intended maliciousness. Yes, there were exceptions, but they were just that... exceptions. Not the rule.


There were plenty of newbies who got respect for how they posted and did things, and there are plenty of regulars who still catch shit to this day, despite how long they've been here or how much they've posted. How a given newbie (or poster in general) acted was the main source of potential flaming and put downs over the years. Not post counts, and not join dates.

Of course, that's just my opinion based on my own experiences.

[Jillian Aversa]

Join dates may have been the actual mark of a more experienced UnModder, but I am absolutely certain that many new people still used postcount to try to "make up" for it. I've talked to people who admited it behind the scenes, because they wanted to feel more welcome.

And regardless, just seeing tons of fad threads contributes to the "mob mentality," because it encourages more to pop up. ;)

[Sauzer]

Will it be a crime to say something with the explicit intent to offend or arouse a response in Off-Topic?

[Monobrow]

You would be wrong then, the whole +1 thing was a joke.

No one's worth was "actually" assessed by their post count, unless that individual was brand new.

[wormguy]

Join dates may have been the actual mark of a more experienced UnModder, but I am absolutely certain that many new people still used postcount to try to "make up" for it. I've talked to people who admited it behind the scenes, because they wanted to feel more welcome.

And regardless, just seeing tons of fad threads contributes to the "mob mentality," because it encourages more to pop up. ;)

I fail to understand why this merits the sudden deletion of an entire forum.

[Eulogic]

I don't think she was arguing that, wormguy.

[Jillian Aversa]

Join dates may have been the actual mark of a more experienced UnModder, but I am absolutely certain that many new people still used postcount to try to "make up" for it. I've talked to people who admited it behind the scenes, because they wanted to feel more welcome.

And regardless, just seeing tons of fad threads contributes to the "mob mentality," because it encourages more to pop up.
I fail to understand why this merits the sudden deletion of an entire forum.
Oh my God... are you serious? You obviously missed my essay post on the last page, in which I explained the reasons UnMod was deleted in extreme detail. Please take the time to read what people are saying before making assumptions. That goes for everyone.

EDIT:
The post is on page 22. I didn't realize this post would be the first on 24. ^_~

[Black Starre]

There were plenty of newbies who got respect for how they posted and did things, and there are plenty of regulars who still catch shit to this day, despite how long they've been here or how much they've posted. How a given newbie (or poster in general) acted was the main source of potential flaming and put downs over the years. Not post counts, and not join dates.

Of course, that's just my opinion based on my own experiences.

I second this. I was never that deep in Unmod, but I don't recall ever getting flamed- and hell, I wasn't all that constructive. I goofed around in the photo caption threads, etc, but also in the occasional +1/postwhore thread, because it was fun now and then. But I didn't do it to up my count to gain respect- just for the hell of it because it was there, basically.

It seems that this is all besides the point, though- the major problem being discussed is people being treated badly when they were new. Maybe instead of banning a type of thread because of the psychological reasons it may have ended up degrading the forum over the years, we could try saying "Hey guys, don't be dicks, huh?"

Of course, this sort of thing will only be an issue a long time from now. Before one can insult a newcomer, there have to be people that aren't newcomers. We'll all be n00bs at OT for a while.

[wormguy]

Well, apparently mob mentality and post-whoring in general in UnMod were the reasons things spilled over into GenDisc by this logic, right? But I don't think that's the issue at all. I think we're putting a magnifying glass over the worse aspects of UnMod and looking over the good ones entirely. As far as I know, there wasn't any huge drama between UnMod and the other forums right before UnMod's deletion, right? So, why the sudden decision? No warning, and not even any decent explanations until recently. It's just not fair to the UnMod community.

Pixietricks, I read your original post in its entirety three times. And it reeks of misunderstanding and false assumptions. Once again, it's obvious that those who were for the deletion of UnMod were not associated with or familiar with it at all.

[Sauzer]

Pixie, if you could, I'm rather interested in a response to my question.

Will it be a moderation-worthy offense to say something with the explicit intent to offend or arouse a response in Off-Topic?

[I-n-j-i-n]

As I just attempted to explain in my TLDR post :p...

We all want to keep it within reason. The "un-useful" thing isn't a problem in and of itself; it's that too much junk encourages people to post for the sole purpose of increasing their postcount. And that's what caused all those icky things I listed above, which resulted in UnMod's end.

Yes, I've read through it thoroughly, but I'm just saying that it's a bit strange since Unmod as of late has been more or less like what Gen Disc was supposed to be.

And if people wanted to "prune" the forum so to speak and make it more civil or have it serve some purpose, the place could've been moderated a bit more strict in terms of the flooding and other excessive cases of fad threads and overt trolling.

But I suppose that's oxymoronic since it IS unmoderated after all.

[Jillian Aversa]

It seems that this is all besides the point, though- the major problem being discussed is people being treated badly when they were new.
Actually, the main point I was trying to get at for the reason UnMod was deleted is abuse, especially when it spilled onto other forums. All the bullets before that in my essay post (2 pages ago) were just factors that led up to that abuse. Hope that clarifies things.

[wormguy]

Look, my point is that UnMod has always been UnMod, and nobody seemed opposed to what went on there until one day it was deleted. I think most of us are just pissed at the lack of respect with which we are being treated.

[Syl]

Pixietricks, I call complete and total bullshit. You obviously never took part in, or even bothered to understand unmod if you think that's the way the place was.

I'm very aware that you never actually attempted to post in the unmods, because it would have been very obvious if you had. The most important thing that the unmods did have going for them was a tight community; and you would have stood out there on many, many levels and would have been called out for exactly that reason.

"Flame Wars" are the basis of Gendisc and PPR, these were very few in the unmods. The amount of threads that downgraded into a standard back and forth action between two sides was exceedingly slim. If you posted something that didn't fit, it was generally shoved as a side note into an otherwise slightly-useful discussion before that discussion degraded into something about pancakes and smiling mexicans.

"Popularity Contests" were a joke. That was the entire point of them, they were simply a joke. Not everyone who had a high post count or an early join date was respected. I had 7000 posts and a 2003 join date and was still a prime example of that. Why? Because i contributed nothing to the actual society of unmod. People like Coop and Mahaboo did worthwhile stuff; Arashi and Atomic Dog made themselves obvious. Even posters with lower numbers like NNY or Red Omen made themselves known through wit and education. Post counts had nothing to do with it; but higher posts obviously meant higher visibility; as they contributed more.

"Mob Mentality" is not the way to describe a community; and like everything else in your post is simply insulting.

I don't care if you are sleeping with zircon or whatever the hell else is going on behind the scenes at OCR. It never concerned me, while other unmodders apparently had some say in it; i try to stay out of all the bullshit. But when an entire community forum is destroyed due to blatant misunderstandings and overgeneralizations; someone, somewhere, needs to actually get an idea of what the hell was truly going on before the lies eventually become a forgotten "truth".

Not all mods are evil, not everyone in the unmods were either. Some of us just try our best to be nothing but regular people who enjoyed being in the company of other like-minded people. We had our own ways of "getting along", and i'm sorry that it isn't anywhere near as white and black as everyone wishes or thinks it was.

[Jillian Aversa]

Why don't you go chase after Ginger some more? I'm not going to take my shirt off, so you can go ahead and leave this thread. :D

[The Coop]

Not sure if this is going to be read after Syl's post, but...


Join dates may have been the actual mark of a more experienced UnModder, but I am absolutely certain that many new people still used postcount to try to "make up" for it. I've talked to people who admited it behind the scenes, because they wanted to feel more welcome.

And regardless, just seeing tons of fad threads contributes to the "mob mentality," because it encourages more to pop up. ;)

But how is that the fault of anyone in UnMod? If you look around the Web, the notion of having a bigger post count to fit in is not an UnMod or OCR trait. It's everywhere. Every site forum at some point has had someone make a sarcastic remark regarding a person's post count, and how it wasn't big enough to make that poster be taken seriously. It's been going on since before OCR was ever started, and it'll continue long after OCR vanishes. UnMod posters are not at fault for that mind set, because even if a newbie took that remark completely seriously, there were scores of posts elsewhere on OCR and in UnMod that stated the exact opposite. I don't see how the inability to take a joke, is something that could be used in what you described.


Regarding the mob mentality you mentioned, I don't think you really understood what was going on when those fad threads were created...

Fad threads had nothing to do with fitting in, nor did they come about from running out of thread ideas. When fad threads were made, they were made in an attempt to be funny. Some succeeded, some didn't. After a while, they were almost expected to show up, and both regulars and newbies alike made them over time. If you made one, you weren't part of the group, nor were you desperate to find a thread idea. All you were, was someone who made a fad thread in an attempt to get/give a quick laugh.

In fact, more often than not, people were trying to keep posters from making fad threads. There were quite a few posts within the fad threads that stated they'd grown tiresome, and that people should stop making them. Some said this politely, some not so polite. But basically, to a decent number of people, they'd run their course quite some time ago. But in the end, they were a source of short lived amusement, and little more.



This isn't intended as any kind of insult Pixie, but I honestly believe that you have a good number of misconceptions about what went on in UnMod, and why it went on.