Timbaland rips Commodore 64 tune

[makke]

Harmless borrowing, or shameless rip-off? You decide yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4KX7SkDe4Q

Personally, I find it "funny" how the record industry can turn young kids into criminals while "proteciting their own interests" - then, at the same time, they don't seem to have any problem stealing music from generous people who release their creations for free.

The word "hypocrisy" springs to mind.

[lazygecko]

I take it most of the old scene chiptunes aren't copyrighted in any way? If so, the industry has a potential goldmine of tunes they can steal and get away with it at the same time.

[CE]

Fix the thread title, that's not Timberland, it's Timbaland. You'd be surprised but there's a difference.

[Mono]

I was dubious at first, but god damn it, it's the same song.

[makke]

I take it most of the old scene chiptunes aren't copyrighted in any way? If so, the industry has a potential goldmine of tunes they can steal and get away with it at the same time.
In short, all old scene chiptunes are copyrighted. If you've created something, you own the copyright to that. What most old scene chiptunes are not, however, is registered with a publisher or the likes, which makes it a lot harder to prove you did it first - and raise the cash and guts to take a multinational recording company with the best lawyers money can buy to court on a copyright infringement charge.

The record companies know this, and usually seem to think "Let's go ahead and f these guys over. Should they have the guts to take us to court, we can probably buy ourselves free pretty cheaply".

And the world keeps turning.

Fix the thread title, that's not Timberland, it's Timbaland. You'd be surprised but there's a difference.
Ah, crap! That's a bad typo. I meant to write Timbaland, my mind and fingers must've slipped. I seem to be unable to change the topic though.

[lazygecko]

The original file should have a creation date in the file properties, and it probably exists on several web archives so it shouldn't be hard to prove.

[andyjayne]

The original file should have a creation date in the file properties, and it probably exists on several web archives so it shouldn't be hard to prove.
E.g. http://www.gsldata.se/cgi-bin/c64/hv-search.cgi?title=&author=janne+suni&released=

[Blue Magic]

Fix the thread title, that's not Timberland, it's Timbaland. You'd be surprised but there's a difference.

Yes, please.

At first I thought we were talking about a Timberland commercial using the tune.

Also, hasn't this been going on for a while now? People don't really make that big of a deal about it, well at least, not to my knowledge.

[zircon]

Absolutely unbelievable, I hope this gets routed ALL over the internet and Geffen gets screwed over.

[Arek the Absolute]

Wow, that is down right blasphemous, though not too shocking considering the major media and hype world today revolved around nothing but drama and hypocrisy. The original composer should be contacted, if possible, so that they may receive royalties for said song.
What program was the video creator using? The one where he put the two songs together. Looked vaguely familiar.

[ellywu2]

Wow, the original version of this song is absolutely win.

[The Vagrance]

I'm surprised I'm defending him but here's the deal:
1. The song that was "copied" off of wasn't copyrighted, hello no legal groundwork.

2. How long is the song Do It? According to wikipedia, 3:41. Ok, their examples are an 8-second long intro and 7 seconds of a verse/chorus. Truth be told this reminds me a lot of the whole "Michael Jackson created the music for Sonic 3" thing.

3. Timbaland has been record label lawyers behind him, this Finnish guy won't have enough legal power to win this case.

4. Ok, so they sound very similar and knowing Timbaland he probably did rip it off, but here's the deal. Connecting the RIAA suing people to this has absolutely no basis whatsoever, Timbaland is a producer who makes beats for people, the RIAA is a huge money-grubbing machine trying to salvage what it can while the music business goes into a decline. Also, if I were the Finnish artist I'd be happy. Honestly, if it weren't for Timbaland doing this who would've heard of him? Now people are trying to find more of his stuff. Also, Timbaland didn't even rip it off nearly as badly as he could've, he took a Lo-Fi chiptune and turned it into a bangin' R&B track. Besides, this isn't even one of his best productions, Dirt off Your Shoulder and My Love kill this one.

5. Uh, this has been going on forever, from people taking songs into existence and getting famous off of them (I'm looking at you Mr. Presley) to making songs that have similar chord progressions (there was some court case for Nickelback about this, also its happened with Linkin Park and many other times), to plain ol' sampling a bassline, or a melody line off of a record. Nowadays, its becoming less about the melodies, and more about the presentation. Is that a good thing? I dunno, to me it is but to others its not. Point is, singling out Timbaland like this is unfair, considering he's made countless other original pieces of work.

My point is this:
Did he steal it? Probably, but this isn't even close to the first time its happened and besides, Timbaland's one of the best producers in the rap and R&B game, he and Scott Storch practically ran mainstream music in 2006, this isn't what's going to end his career or anything as he's made countless original beats for people already that were better than this one. Besides, this isn't even one of the singles off of the album, chances are no one bought this album for the song "Do It" over "Maneater" or "Promiscuous"

[Mustin]

Timbaland is not a good producer. He's a good sampler and borrower. If he would stop that and just make everything from scratch, it'd be a lot more respectable.

[BlueMage]

Did he steal it? Probably, but this isn't even close to the first time its happened and besides, Timbaland's one of the best producers in the rap and R&B game, he and Scott Storch practically ran mainstream music in 2006, this isn't what's going to end his career or anything as he's made countless original beats for people already that were better than this one. Besides, this isn't even one of the singles off of the album, chances are no one bought this album for the song "Do It" over "Maneater" or "Promiscuous"


Oh? So, "everyone's doing it" and "he's allowed special privledges because he's so good" are valid excuses for such actions?

[Mustin]

Yeah, basically.

[The Vagrance]

Oh? So, "everyone's doing it" and "he's allowed special privledges because he's so good" are valid excuses for such actions?

Not necessarily, this isn't exactly the most honourable of actions but everyone's throwing too big of a fuss over it because it happens all the time. It wasn't even a straight rip either, one of the best things about the Timbaland song is the drum work which he didn't copy, and he also presented the original in a new way. I'm seen far worse before and this wasn't even a big deal, also I have yet to hear from the original artist himself yet, some of you guys may be getting more offended than he is. Stop acting like this is a travesty to end all travesties.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

1. The song that was "copied" off of wasn't copyrighted, hello no legal groundwork.
Not true. When you create something, you automatically hold the copyright until you release the rights to somebody else.

2. How long is the song Do It? According to wikipedia, 3:41. Ok, their examples are an 8-second long intro and 7 seconds of a verse/chorus. Truth be told this reminds me a lot of the whole "Michael Jackson created the music for Sonic 3" thing.
The MJ/Sonic 3 thing was a bunch of loose connections. This is, pure and simple, the same song. They weren't even subtle about it.

3. Timbaland has been record label lawyers behind him, this Finnish guy won't have enough legal power to win this case.
Doesn't mean the son of a bitch doesn't deserve to have his ass force-fed to him.

4. Ok, so they sound very similar and knowing Timbaland he probably did rip it off, but here's the deal. Connecting the RIAA suing people to this has absolutely no basis whatsoever, Timbaland is a producer who makes beats for people, the RIAA is a huge money-grubbing machine trying to salvage what it can while the music business goes into a decline. Also, if I were the Finnish artist I'd be happy. Honestly, if it weren't for Timbaland doing this who would've heard of him? Now people are trying to find more of his stuff. Also, Timbaland didn't even rip it off nearly as badly as he could've, he took a Lo-Fi chiptune and turned it into a bangin' R&B track. Besides, this isn't even one of his best productions, Dirt off Your Shoulder and My Love kill this one.
I'm not even going to take the time to respond to this.

5. Uh, this has been going on forever, from people taking songs into existence and getting famous off of them (I'm looking at you Mr. Presley) to making songs that have similar chord progressions (there was some court case for Nickelback about this, also its happened with Linkin Park and many other times), to plain ol' sampling a bassline, or a melody line off of a record. Nowadays, its becoming less about the melodies, and more about the presentation. Is that a good thing? I dunno, to me it is but to others its not. Point is, singling out Timbaland like this is unfair, considering he's made countless other original pieces of work.
ANY asshole who pulls shit like this deserves to get shot. Timbaland is no exception. Just because there are others doesn't make it any less heinous when he does it.

Timbaland's one of the best producers in the rap and R&B game, he and Scott Storch practically ran mainstream music in 2006, this isn't what's going to end his career or anything as he's made countless original beats for people already that were better than this one. Besides, this isn't even one of the singles off of the album, chances are no one bought this album for the song "Do It" over "Maneater" or "Promiscuous"
All of which is completely irrelevant.

[Bahamut]

Yeah really, there's no defense for this. And meanwhile you have the RIAA going after people with dubious legal ground and ignoring infringement of their own artists who're on a member label. Good job RIAA, your efforts to flex your cartel muscle knows no bounds!

[OverCoat]

It's also not a C64 tune, it's in .mod format so it's from the Amiga.

I'll post my thoughts, since I already commented on my ThaSauce article (http://thasauce.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=543&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0):

I see on all the youtube video comments and Digg discussion that there's a lot of naysaying: "The songs aren't all that similar" "I can't believe how sad this whole thing is. Some idiot made a song 6 years ago and just sat back until someone else made something similar just to claim they wrote it first and should be paid. I think its absurd to think that someone else can't independently come up with a similar tune/beat."

These are quotes from COMPLETE TOOLS. There is obvious ripping if you listen to both of the songs. But I have a bad feeling about this whole situation. I predict Timbaland is just going to shrug off the whole thing, or basically ignore all the hatemail. And you know what? There will be no mainstream outrage, but of course most internet musicians will [and should] raise a stink about this, though I think that still won't amount to anything. Why? Because Timbaland and Nelly Furtado are so mainstream. Tempest, from the public eye, is basically a nobody who made a chiptune for some Finnish "nerdparty," and they won't bother listening to the original.

In the end, Timbaland will probably lose no credibility from the group that actually buys Nelly Furtado's CDs.

One thing about this situation though, I actually find really funny. Can you imagine Timbaland sitting on his computer, browsing scene.org? Yeah, what the fuck? Maybe MODs and chiptunes are starting to come into the mainstream a little bit more?

[Blue Magic]

What program was the video creator using? The one where he put the two songs together. Looked vaguely familiar.

Sound Forge 7 or 8.

I know them well.

[The Vagrance]

Not true. When you create something, you automatically hold the copyright until you release the rights to somebody else.

I stand corrected


The MJ/Sonic 3 thing was a bunch of loose connections. This is, pure and simple, the same song. They weren't even subtle about it.

If it weren't for the Commodore 64 sounds during the chorus I doubt many people would've noticed the connection. Using the MJ thing was probably a bad example but let's use another one. Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger by Daft Punk is based off of Cola Bottle Baby by Edward Birdsong, in fact the basis for the entire song is based off of it, but Daft Punk adds so much more to it that makes it a different experience all in itself despite being extremely simple. The only difference between the two cases is Timbaland didn't at least cite it was based off of the Finnish guy's song, which is all he should've done, but both are different enough in their own right to be considered different songs.


Doesn't mean the son of a bitch doesn't deserve to have his ass force-fed to him.

Oh, well taking the melody of a song and reinterpretating it is SO barbaric so we must make him eat his own ass. Glad to know we're making progress.

I'm not even going to take the time to respond to this.

You're a smart dude, I've seen your posts on PPR and I agree with them for the most part but don't resort to these types of responses. Every time I see someone make this response I think either they're not sure how to respond, or they think they're too good to respond, neither of which are very appealing.

ANY asshole who pulls shit like this deserves to get shot. Timbaland is no exception. Just because there are others doesn't make it any less heinous when he does it.

That is a completely bold and ignorant statement, death or at the very least intense physical pain over something like this is too much, if every time this happened someone got shot then the music business would be a bloodbath.

All of which is completely irrelevant.

Maybe.

I would like to say that I'm not trying to piss people off but its how I feel about the situation. Should the Finnish artist have been credited? Yeah, he should've, but he wasn't, and saying that now Timbaland should be shot because of it is wrong. Would I ever do this? No, I think its between the artist and his or herself. This isn't a big moral war between the big bad record label and the independent artists, this is and should be just between the Finnish artist and Timbaland.

Yeah really, there's no defense for this. And meanwhile you have the RIAA going after people with dubious legal ground and ignoring infringement of their own artists who're on a member label. Good job RIAA, your efforts to flex your cartel muscle knows no bounds!

For God's sake this has NOTHING to do with the RIAA, people are just using this situation to find a way to bitch about the RIAA. We all get it, the RIAA sucks, we all know that, but this has nothing to do with it. The only reason people are making such a big deal out of this is because they want another reason to bitch about the RIAA. You guys want a real reason to bitch about the RIAA? Recently the owner of Warner Brothers Records, Edgar Bonfman Jr., had two of his sons caught for downloading music illegally. Guess what the RIAA did? Nothing. That is real hypocrisy, you guys are just comparing apples to oranges.

[The Vagrance]

Also, has anyone here aside from me heard the entire song or just the video? Because I just listened to it, and like I said in my first post, this isn't even a direct rip, the sections taken out were selectively the closest to the original but the Timbaland version has so much added to it. The intro bassline isn't even the same all the way through, the last two bars are different than the original. If this video didn't existed I wouldn't have made the connection.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Oh, well taking the melody of a song and reinterpretating it is SO barbaric so we must make him eat his own ass. Glad to know we're making progress.
No. But taking somebody else's work, claiming it's your own, and selling it is. My objections stem not from the fact that he drew from other sources, but that he did not ask permission, offer compensation, or even give credit to said source.

That is a completely bold and ignorant statement, death or at the very least intense physical pain over something like this is too much, if every time this happened someone got shot then the music business would be a bloodbath.
That comment was intended as (slight) hyperbole, but I guess that doesn't come accross all that clearly on the internet.

[The Vagrance]

No. But taking somebody else's work, claiming it's your own, and selling it is. My objections stem not from the fact that he drew from other sources, but that he did not ask permission, offer compensation, or even give credit to said source.

Fair enough, that is where it comes down to opinion. If he had noted the influence from the song then it would've been good enough for me but arguing this point further is meaningless.


That comment was intended as (slight) hyperbole, but I guess that doesn't come accross all that clearly on the internet.

My sarcasm/hyperbole detector broke after Bush's State of the Union in '05 when I couldn't figure out whether he was being serious or not.

[Bahamut]

For God's sake this has NOTHING to do with the RIAA, people are just using this situation to find a way to bitch about the RIAA. We all get it, the RIAA sucks, we all know that, but this has nothing to do with it. The only reason people are making such a big deal out of this is because they want another reason to bitch about the RIAA. You guys want a real reason to bitch about the RIAA? Recently the owner of Warner Brothers Records, Edgar Bonfman Jr., had two of his sons caught for downloading music illegally. Guess what the RIAA did? Nothing. That is real hypocrisy, you guys are just comparing apples to oranges.

Geffon is a member label of the RIAA. The RIAA claims to uphold artist copyrights. If you don't see the hypocrisy here, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Zoola]

What would DJP say?

-ReMixing Change Log-

OCR00000 - Acid Jazzed Evening 'Do It'

* Reason: MOD rip with creative processing and drums.

[The Vagrance]

Geffon is a member label of the RIAA. The RIAA claims to uphold artist copyrights. If you don't see the hypocrisy here, then I don't know what to tell you.

But the original issue has nothing to do with the RIAA, the original issue is did Timbaland rip off a song. People are then finding whatever tangents they can to associate it to the RIAA to say "look, see how stupid the RIAA is!" The intention of this topic was not to show how similar Timbaland's song was to the other one but to bash the RIAA some more. The issue at hand has nothing to do with the RIAA.

[andyjayne]

I came here to clear up some things...

Seems like many of the people writing here didn't even bother to listen closely to 'Acidjazzed Evening' (referred as AE from now on) and 'Do It' (referred is DI from now on), or are just plain tonedeaf. Maybe it would help if I'd explain what
those songs have and don't have in common. Grab your headphones, because they really help spotting the stuff
in DI that got sampled!

First: the basis of the song DI is the intro from AE. If you want to spot the similarities, then don't listen AE longer than
15 seconds, which holds 16 bars of music (no, DI is not "quoting" AE - 1-2 seconds would be quoting).
There is not a single part in DI that is not based on these 16 bars. In the chorus of DI, the sampled part is cut into
half and only the first half of it is being used, played over and over till the next verse, when the whole sample is
being played again.

AE repeats it's intro-theme at some point, but mainly it goes to another directions. If you have hard time finding the
resemblance between AE and DI, then don't listen AE for more than 15 seconds. This is crucial.

What was sampled?
For DI someone sampled the intro of GRG's C64-version of AE, but with disabling the bass-channel. The bassline was
reconstructed in DI - no, It's not "totally different" than AE's bassline as someone said. It's just a stripped down version, with octave intervals removed (fe. A2-A3 -> A2) and 2-3 notes left out.
There are 6 different chords (of which many are repeated) in AE's intro, jazzy kind of chords that for most I dont even
know their names, but I'll list them here to show that it's not a typical pop-song chord-progression (actually if someone
can find a similar chord-progression, I'll give him a beer or two):
G# C C# F | A# C# F G# | G# C# D# F | F# A# C# F | A# C D# G# | G# C D# F
Each column represents a list of notes used in each chord. It's not the actual chord-progression, but a list of the
6 chords (most popsongs have around 3-4 chords all together) used in the intro, but I think you get the point...

The chords are arpeggiated, which means that the notes in the chord are not being played at the same time, but being
rapidly from lowest note to the highest and not at the same time. This is a crucial point for anyone who can
differentiate a clear note from a dog bark and because chords are not usually played like this, unless you're a
superfast heavy metal guitar player, J. C. Bach or a 80s homecomputer-soundchip with only 3 channels available.
But in mainstream pop music? No chance.

The melody? Listen to AE's intro few times and then listen to DI with headphones on. It's all there, playing in
the background. The melody that Nelly sings is kind of a variation of the melody in AE's intro, but the original
melody is also there, in the background of DI! Here's another crucial point; they didn't remove the original melody, but
only lowered down it's volume and placed another melody (which Nelly sings) on top of it. I'd call this counterpoint,
if the the people behind DI wouldn't be such hacks. If you want to verify my claim about the melody, then don't pay
much attention to what Nelly is singing (or the drums) but everything else what is there; bassline,
"background-melody" and the arpeggiated chords.

There you have it. 16 bars of music, a whole verse, which became about 4 verses in the hands of another.

I can't discuss the legal issues here. Let's just say that Big Record Companies are surely the works of The Devil.
Spread the word...

-tempest




Turns out he'd done this a year before as well but with an "original" ring tone:

http://msntg.zingy.com/selectItem.php?kind=xt&code=03576

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV2fTEeP6GM

[Bahamut]

But the original issue has nothing to do with the RIAA, the original issue is did Timbaland rip off a song. People are then finding whatever tangents they can to associate it to the RIAA to say "look, see how stupid the RIAA is!" The intention of this topic was not to show how similar Timbaland's song was to the other one but to bash the RIAA some more. The issue at hand has nothing to do with the RIAA.

It has to do with the RIAA by implication. Not to say that Timbaland isn't a shithead for doing this either, but if the RIAA has any credibility, it would act quickly on this considering the situation involves one of its member labels and an artist under the label.

[Fishy]

God damn I'm annoyed. This Timbaland idiot is detroying her. Ridiculous plagarism aside, he's given her a terrible direction. When I first heard Nelly she had a sort of innocense. I remember "I'm like a bird" being a great song, it was fun, well sung and well produced, and I've only just realised what a complete moron he is for bringing her down the r'n'b road.

She's gone from this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfKIapgaGEw

Beautiful voice, innocent, really fun to listen.

To this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH-dQEhNETE

Singing entire verses on a quater tone about nymphos with an army of the usual "pimps an ho's" in the background. I couldn't care less if thats the kind of crap he wants to produce, but when you take a GOOD, TALENTED singer and turn her into that, it seriously pisses me off.

[The Vagrance]

God damn I'm annoyed. This Timbaland idiot is detroying her. Ridiculous plagarism aside, he's given her a terrible direction. When I first heard Nelly she had a sort of innocense. I remember "I'm like a bird" being a great song, it was fun, well sung and well produced, and I've only just realised what a complete moron he is for bringing her down the r'n'b road.

She's gone from this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfKIapgaGEw

Beautiful voice, innocent, really fun to listen.

To this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH-dQEhNETE

Singing entire verses on a quater tone about nymphos with an army of the usual "pimps an ho's" in the background. I couldn't care less if thats the kind of crap he wants to produce, but when you take a GOOD, TALENTED singer and turn her into that, it seriously pisses me off.

Haha, finally someone who shares the same opinion as me. I'm not a huge fan of Timbaland or his values but I gotta respect the things he's produced. I remember arguing with some people about how Nelly Furtado sold out as well.

[Fishy]

Haha, finally someone who shares the same opinion as me. I'm not a huge fan of Timbaland or his values but I gotta respect the things he's produced. I remember arguing with some people about how Nelly Furtado sold out as well.

I just think it's a terrible shame when this happens. I'm sure hes a great producer at what he does if you like that kind of thing, it just seems like everyone is going down this direction, and it's because of people like him forcing them down the road because they won't get popular otherwise.

She would have been awesome with her old style, and he's ruined her creative side sompletely. Irreversible, unforgivable.

[Blue Magic]

God damn I'm annoyed. This Timbaland idiot is detroying her. Ridiculous plagarism aside, he's given her a terrible direction. When I first heard Nelly she had a sort of innocense. I remember "I'm like a bird" being a great song, it was fun, well sung and well produced, and I've only just realised what a complete moron he is for bringing her down the r'n'b road.

She's gone from this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfKIapgaGEw

Beautiful voice, innocent, really fun to listen.

To this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH-dQEhNETE

Singing entire verses on a quater tone about nymphos with an army of the usual "pimps an ho's" in the background. I couldn't care less if thats the kind of crap he wants to produce, but when you take a GOOD, TALENTED singer and turn her into that, it seriously pisses me off.

So you're telling me that Timbaland made her start singing this way and she did not decide to do that on her own? Even though the influence was there, only she could decide whether she should go in that direction or not.

Who knows? She might just be trying it out.

[The Vagrance]

So you're telling me that Timbaland made her start singing this way and she did not decide to do that on her own? Even though the influence was there, only she could decide whether she should go in that direction or not.

Who knows? She might just be trying it out.

Considering Timbaland is associated with that type of lifestyle and the fact that her last album (where she "played it safe") sold poorly, it sounds damn close to selling out to me, but then again its all circumstantial, I find it weird that she's doing this now after she had a kid though.

[Fishy]

So you're telling me that Timbaland made her start singing this way and she did not decide to do that on her own? Even though the influence was there, only she could decide whether she should go in that direction or not.

Who knows? She might just be trying it out.

I suppose that could be whats happening, but considering she actually wrote her old stuff with 2 other people, as opposed to just performing songs written for her like she is now, I think it's far more likely its the label and the producers giving her the new direction. I did do a bit of wiki browsing before i posted, the newest album is a completely different production crew.

[andyjayne]

Please stick to the topic. Also, it's worth checking out the other link I posted regarding the ring tone. The guy's done this more than once and it is almost impossible for it to be coincidence.

[The Vagrance]

Please stick to the topic. Also, it's worth checking out the other link I posted regarding the ring tone. The guy's done this more than once and it is almost impossible for it to be coincidence.

"Block Party" sounds just like Do It, its barely worth considering because its essentially the same case as with Do It.

[andyjayne]

"Block Party" sounds just like Do It, its barely worth considering because its essentially the same case as with Do It.
Block Party is just the SID version with different drums and a bit of bass.

NO OVERRIDE

[The Vagrance]

Different drums and bassline? Dear god, thats almost like a different song!

[Ramaniscence]

Block Party is just the SID version with different drums and a bit of bass.

NO OVERRIDE

More like original with drumloop over it.

Bad Do It Tuna?

[andyjayne]

Different drums and bassline? Dear god, thats almost like a different song!
Good point, here's an original of mine. (http://andyjayne.googlepages.com/reallyoriginal.mp3)

[Arek the Absolute]

Sound Forge 7 or 8.

I know them well.
hook a bruddah up
aim me my friend

Also, has anyone here aside from me heard the entire song or just the video? Because I just listened to it, and like I said in my first post, this isn't even a direct rip, the sections taken out were selectively the closest to the original but the Timbaland version has so much added to it. The intro bassline isn't even the same all the way through, the last two bars are different than the original. If this video didn't existed I wouldn't have made the connection.
speaking of tools

[The Vagrance]

speaking of tools

Ah, I was waiting for someone to insult me based off of no knowledge aside from the fact that I disagree with them on a point. You know what they say, "Sticks and stones may break my bones but yo momma's so fat she sits AROUND the home." Or something rather.

[Kitsuta]

Ah, I was waiting for someone to insult me based off of no knowledge aside from the fact that I disagree with them on a point. You know what they say, "Sticks and stones may break my bones but yo momma's so fat she sits AROUND the home." Or something rather.

I think the point he's trying to make here is that just because you modify something does not make it yours in any way, shape or form.

He's just too lazy to type it out.

[The Vagrance]

So all of the remixes on this site do not belong to the respected remixers?

[Fire in the Hole]

Guys, enough arguing. This thread is now a cooperative effort, a race to see create the best "nigga stole my chiptune" meme in the least amount of time.

Go!

[Kitsuta]

So all of the remixes on this site do not belong to the respected remixers?

Actually, in many ways that's correct.

The only reason every artist who does fanart(this includes visual as well as musical) isn't sued off the face of the Earth is because companies generally ignore/allow derivative fanworks. But it's still technically copyright infringement IIRC.

[The Vagrance]

Actually, in many ways that's correct.

The only reason every artist who does fanart(this includes visual as well as musical) isn't sued off the face of the Earth is because companies generally ignore/allow derivative fanworks. But it's still technically copyright infringement IIRC.

Thats funny because I remember an incident about a month after Blood on the Asphalt was released where someone posted videos on youtube that just said "Street Fighter Fei Long Stage Remix" (there were some others but I forgot what they were) while playing Zircon's (excellent I might add) Flying Heaven Remix, only the poster of the video didn't say that it was from Blood on the Asphalt or OCRemix, then quite a few people on the forums threw a fit about how he wasn't giving credit where credit was due. The poster on youtube said Street Righter and Fei Long, which were the original tracks, and if the remix isn't technically zircon's then I guess no one would've complained. Considering people pour in as much effort (or even more in some cases) into these remixes as their original compositions, then I would consider them their creation. They were influenced by video game music, yeah, but if it weren't for the Mario Paint intro and outro on Intense Colour I never would've guessed.

[Chickenwarlord]

The artists here also give credit to the original composers and companies to which they are licensed (in case you hadn't noticed).

[Fire in the Hole]

You're the worst listeners in the world. Readers, I guess.

[andyjayne]

Thats funny because I remember an incident about a month after Blood on the Asphalt was released where someone posted videos on youtube that just said "Street Fighter Fei Long Stage Remix" (there were some others but I forgot what they were) while playing Zircon's (excellent I might add) Flying Heaven Remix, only the poster of the video didn't say that it was from Blood on the Asphalt or OCRemix, then quite a few people on the forums threw a fit about how he wasn't giving credit where credit was due. The poster on youtube said Street Righter and Fei Long, which were the original tracks, and if the remix isn't technically zircon's then I guess no one would've complained. Considering people pour in as much effort (or even more in some cases) into these remixes as their original compositions, then I would consider them their creation. They were influenced by video game music, yeah, but if it weren't for the Mario Paint intro and outro on Intense Colour I never would've guessed.


This is not really the same issue. Do It and Block Party involve 16 bars worth of uncredited, directly sampled music (the bass and drum channels in the SID have been disabled) which are repeated a fair number of times.

[Fire in the Hole]

Whilst there are many similarities, this is not the same thing. It has directly sampled 16 bars worth of music where the bass and drum channels in the SID have been disabled and was repeated for however many minutes.

And you're hereby banned from trying to use the word "whilst."

[Kitsuta]

Thats funny because I remember an incident about a month after Blood on the Asphalt was released where someone posted videos on youtube that just said "Street Fighter Fei Long Stage Remix" (there were some others but I forgot what they were) while playing Zircon's (excellent I might add) Flying Heaven Remix, only the poster of the video didn't say that it was from Blood on the Asphalt or OCRemix, then quite a few people on the forums threw a fit about how he wasn't giving credit where credit was due. The poster on youtube said Street Righter and Fei Long, which were the original tracks, and if the remix isn't technically zircon's then I guess no one would've complained. Considering people pour in as much effort (or even more in some cases) into these remixes as their original compositions, then I would consider them their creation. They were influenced by video game music, yeah, but if it weren't for the Mario Paint intro and outro on Intense Colour I never would've guessed.

The songs belong to the artists but only insofar as they are derivatives. That is, the CHANGES and whatever new composition and samples used belong to the artist(s) that did them. However, that does NOT mean that the songs completely belong to the artists - in other words, they couldn't say it was theirs and sell the songs. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to sell the remixes at all, actually.

Giving credit doesn't technically count for a whole lot legally, but it counts a LOT for the artist personally. That is, if you make a derivative work under normal copyright law and you don't give credit, the artist in question is more likely to go after you because you disrespected them. If, however, you gave credit, they will be more likely to ignore your copyright infringement. Companies care less about this stuff, but it's still courteous to your listeners to let them know your sources.

You're the worst listeners in the world. Readers, I guess.

I guess we did go out on a tangent, didn't we?

[The Vagrance]

The artists here also give credit to the original composers and companies to which they are licensed (in case you hadn't noticed).

I had, and I said that Timbaland should've given credit.

[Bahamut]

The songs belong to the artists but only insofar as they are derivatives. That is, the CHANGES and whatever new composition and samples used belong to the artist(s) that did them. However, that does NOT mean that the songs completely belong to the artists - in other words, they couldn't say it was theirs and sell the songs. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to sell the remixes at all, actually.

It's legal if you get the appropriate license to. For an example, see that Estradasphere Super Mario Bros. 2 remix on this site? That's actually on one of their commercial albums, and they're known as a serious band, outside the context of OCR, if a little known one (I bought their most recent album in an FYE a few weeks ago back in NY).

[Arek the Absolute]

Thats funny because I remember an incident about a month after Blood on the Asphalt was released where someone posted videos on youtube that just said "Street Fighter Fei Long Stage Remix" (there were some others but I forgot what they were) while playing Zircon's (excellent I might add) Flying Heaven Remix, only the poster of the video didn't say that it was from Blood on the Asphalt or OCRemix, then quite a few people on the forums threw a fit about how he wasn't giving credit where credit was due. The poster on youtube said Street Righter and Fei Long, which were the original tracks, and if the remix isn't technically zircon's then I guess no one would've complained. Considering people pour in as much effort (or even more in some cases) into these remixes as their original compositions, then I would consider them their creation. They were influenced by video game music, yeah, but if it weren't for the Mario Paint intro and outro on Intense Colour I never would've guessed.
hey you ignorant dillhole
there a difference between claiming a work of art as your own and making money off of it
the blood on the asphalt problem was just some dude going ya i made these
this asshole is making a profit off of someones work, which brings this to a new level
tool

[supremespleen]

haha arek's post and sig possess conflicting attitudes :3

[Arek the Absolute]

word
------

[The Vagrance]

The songs belong to the artists but only insofar as they are derivatives. That is, the CHANGES and whatever new composition and samples used belong to the artist(s) that did them. However, that does NOT mean that the songs completely belong to the artists - in other words, they couldn't say it was theirs and sell the songs. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to sell the remixes at all, actually.

The changes made in Timbaland's version include:
1. Damn fine production values
2. Vocals
3. Another melody line
4. A lot of arrangement changes
5. An edited bassline

The way he arranged this song was similar as if he sampled it, only instead of sampling uncreativally (See Daft Punk's Robot Rock) he sampled creatively, by recreating the original along with adding new parts and changing the overall mood making it a completely new song (See Daft Punk's Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger). Also, its worth noting I even spotted a piece of Intense Colour on SGX's Coactive album (I forgot which song) which was definately the melody line from the Mario Paint song, but I haven't seen him in court yet. DJ Green Lantern sampled Final Fantasy VII's battle theme for a rap track he did and he hasn't gotten sued over it yet. A lot of what goes on with sampling, borrowing, and taking influences today in music is a total gray area and the courts are having trouble on how to rule, it all just comes down to:
A. Is the sampler famous
and
B. Is the song they sampled famous

Giving credit doesn't technically count for a whole lot legally, but it counts a LOT for the artist personally. That is, if you make a derivative work under normal copyright law and you don't give credit, the artist in question is more likely to go after you because you disrespected them. If, however, you gave credit, they will be more likely to ignore your copyright infringement. Companies care less about this stuff, but it's still courteous to your listeners to let them know your sources.

I agree with this completely.

[Kitsuta]

It's legal if you get the appropriate license to. For an example, see that Estradasphere Super Mario Bros. 2 remix on this site? That's actually on one of their commercial albums, and they're known as a serious band, outside the context of OCR, if a little known one (I bought their most recent album in an FYE a few weeks ago back in NY).

Iiiiinteresting.

Does that license mean going to Nintendo and saying "Can I please sell these?"

Cause if so, then yeah I already figured you could do that, since Nintendo should own the copyright to their games' songs and not the artists.

[The Vagrance]

hey you ignorant dillhole
there a difference between claiming a work of art as your own and making money off of it
the blood on the asphalt problem was just some dude going ya i made these
this asshole is making a profit off of someones work, which brings this to a new level
tool

I was just using it as a refute to him saying that everything the remixers do isn't their creation. The only difference in this case is money, and nobody knows how much money anybody made off of this track. It wasn't a single so its not as big of an issue. I've said it multiple times, HE SHOULD HAVE STATED HE WAS INFLUENCED FROM THE SONG. However, do not dismiss the work Timbaland put into the track himself.

[The Vagrance]

Just as a note, I'm getting tired of arguing so I'm gonna leave this thread for a few hours. I'd appreciate it if the personal insults would stop though.

[andyjayne]

For those who are unable to hear the original song by Tempest on the background of the Furtado - Do it, maybe this helps:

http://www.sampsy.com/download/furtado_doit_extracted.mp3

I made it based on the mp3 readily available. Just inverted the right channel and converted to mono which effectively removed the center channel. Some eq'ing added to bring out the arps. Pretty obvious...

Good luck tempest!

-texmex
I'm pretty sure most people will be able to here it from that.

[Monobrow]

If George Harrison can get sued over "My Sweet Lord", and Madonna over "Frozen", then I see no problem at all with this Timbaland fellow paying his dues to the original artist.

[parasoul]

Yeah, that is a complete ripoff.

[Fire in the Hole]

Guys, enough arguing. This thread is now a cooperative effort, a race to create the best "nigga stole my chiptune" meme in the least amount of time.

Go!

[The Vagrance]

Guys, enough arguing. This thread is now a cooperative effort, a race to create the best "nigga stole my chiptune" meme in the least amount of time.

Go!

I got dibs on making a YTMND of it....later.

[Arek the Absolute]

nice, following the trend of jacking something someone did and taking credit for it

[The Vagrance]

nice, following the trend of jacking something someone did and taking credit for it

Touche

extra letters extra letters extra letters extra letters extra letters extra letters extra letters extra letters extra letters extra letters extra letters extra letters

[bucky o'hare]

I'm not going to dismiss the work Timbaland put into it, but that's not the point. Calling him talentless and the like is not only silly, but irrelevant. Putting that aside, I'm sure we can agree that this is a bit over the top and beyond the acceptable boundaries of sampling w/out giving credit.

This is an a whole different plane than the "mj made sonic music" thing, I'm not sure why that was brought up. The original was sampled into Do It, meaning that the sonic comparison would only be relevant if you actually heard the genesis/megadrive music sampled into Michael's work or vice versa.

I would like for this to spread around the net. Even if Tempest can't open a case and win, it's a good idea to share this. I know people who like making chiptunish music. The way I see it, is it could've been any one of them.

I mean I don't even "hate" Timbaland now or anything... Tempest just needs some credit, and I think it's worth pointing this out. ;)

One thing about this situation though, I actually find really funny. Can you imagine Timbaland sitting on his computer, browsing scene.org? Yeah, what the fuck?
Hahah, exactly.

[Mustin]

Not sure why things are getting so heated. Things are pretty cut and dry with the laws, and the only thing to really get bothered about is whether or not Timbaland stole the tune as source material.

There is some crazy chance in hell that it's a coincidence that it happened like this. Afterall, there are only 12 notes.

But most people are in agreement that the work was stolen and that would be an infringement on the copyright of the owner.

The owner seems to not have made a statement or anything (did I miss that?) so there's not much to be done.

Cool your collective jets, peeps.

[bucky o'hare]

Not sure why things are getting so heated. Things are pretty cut and dry with the laws, and the only thing to really get bothered about is whether or not Timbaland stole the tune as source material.
Kinda sounds like it for the ringtone thing.

While I don't know where to find any statements from the owner, this is getting closer-


From a thread on Something Awful entitled "Timbaland ripped off a track from my buddy (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2274635)" (page doesn't load half the time, so here goes)

I've been an avid Demoscener for many years now, a subculture of creating art on computers (check demoscene.info (http://www.demoscene.info/) and the demoscene wikipage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene) for more info)

Basically we create 'real time' videoclips on new and old hardware. Stemming from cracktro's before games it became a scene on it's own where people come together at parties and compete in various competitions ranging from music and graphics to all kind of demo variations.

This is all done for fun and all productions are released for everyone to enjoy, first on BBS's and now on the internet.

So yeah, Timbaland is the next big thing since sliced bread, he's quite a skilled producer and makes many, many millions producing the hottest artists. So it is quite surprising when for Nelly Furtado's track 'Do It' on her latest album 'Loose' he blatantly stole a c64 conversion of an Amiga mod made by the Finnish demoscener Janne "Tempest/Damage" Suni.

To explain, in 2000 at Assembly, one of the biggest demoparties in Finland, Tempest competed in the so-called 'Oldskool Music Compo', a competition ment for music on old platforms like Amiga, c64, ZX-Spectrum and the likes. His entry 'Acid Jazzed Evening', a 4 channel Amiga .MOD won the competition. For your convenience I converted the mod to an mp3 which you can get here (http://www.genietervan.com/hoerr/tempest_acidjazz.mp3). The original .MOD file you can get from Scene.org here (http://www.scene.org/file.php?file=/parties/2000/assembly00/oldskool/music/acid_jaz.zip&fileinfo).

A c64 musician called grg remade the song on the c64 (using the infamous SID soundchip) which is what Timbaland used for Furtado's song. I also converted this SID to mp3, which you can get here (http://www.genietervan.com/hoerr/glenn_acidjazz.mp3).

And here (http://www.genietervan.com/hoerr/furtado_doit.mp3) is a 40 second clip of Nelly Furtado's track 'Do It'.

He literally stole the whole musical line to build this song around. I talked to Tempest and he told me that it's no use going to court, eventhough Scene.org supplied papers saying the song got uploaded on their servers in 2000. Fighting a big corporation like Geffen costs tons of money and time, which he does not have.

It's all kinda sour, to know that Furtado and Timbaland make a buckload of cash using a tune that was released for free. So the least I could do was to post about it on the internet and let people know.

So there! Spread the word! Timbaland is a thieving bastard!

edit: my buddy Gloom made a youtube video showing the similarities in both songs, you can watch it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4KX7SkDe4Q)

edit: rehosted on genietervan.com (dreamhost.com)! please mirror people!

Mirror @ Limpninja.com !

Tempest's track here (http://www.limpninja.com/acidjazz/tempest_acidjazz.mp3)
grg's c64 remake here (http://www.limpninja.com/acidjazz/glenn_acidjazz.mp3)
and the Furtado snippet here (http://www.limpninja.com/acidjazz/furtado_doit.mp3)

mirror from dj_pain (thanks dude!)

"Acid Jazzed Evening" by Tempest (http://www.painemilla.com/nmd/tempest_acidjazz.mp3)
the c64 conversion from grg (http://www.painemilla.com/nmd/glenn_acidjazz.mp3)
snippit from "Do It" by Nelly Furtado (http://www.painemilla.com/nmd/furtado_doit.mp3)

I never thought I would see a post about amiga scene music and nelly furtado at the same time, pretty epic.

[Fire in the Hole]

Not sure why things are getting so heated. Things are pretty cut and dry with the laws, and the only thing to really get bothered about is forcing the "nigga stole my song" meme.

I think this is really what you meant?

[Mustin]

No, not really. But thanks.

[Fire in the Hole]

I wouldn't be this disappointed in everyone if Unmod were still around.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Somebody definitely needs to make a "nigga stole my song" ytmnd

(if they haven't already)

[Blue Magic]

hook a bruddah up
aim me my friend

My AIM is not working right, but we could probably arrange something.

Just let me know.

[Shael Riley]

What's all this talk about not having the guts to take on the big record labels? Here you have a person, the original composer and writeful owner of a piece of music that has made, probably, many thousands, if not millions, of dollars, to which he may be entitled. He is comepletely obscure, a non-celebrity with no reputation to protect, and is not a profesional musician with industry cred to protect either. He stands to lose nothing, and could gain a great deal of money and notoriety by taking the label who may have plagerized him to court. Even if he doesn't win his case, he stands a good chance at attracting enough media and industry attention to afford him future oppurtunities to release albums on a large, comercial scale, something he may have never been afforded had Timbuland's use of his composition not brought the talent and comercial viability of this demoscene artist into the public eye. Attorneys are not stupid; they're going to see some very promising evidence, not to mention a good chance for exposure, and someone is going to be willing to take this case pro bono, if the original artist is interested in pursuing legal action.

And, for the record, I saw the YouTube video and I listened to the songs. If I were judging this case, Tim would be handing over all of the money he made from this track to its original composer.

Has anyone considered going to G4/Tech TV with this? This is the bread and butter of their flagship program Attack of the Show (http://www.g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/index.html).

[lazygecko]

Tempest DID make a statement about this:
http://digg.com/music/Timbaland_ripped_off_a_track_from_my_buddy#c471369 3

[andyjayne]

Tempest DID make a statement about this:
http://digg.com/music/Timbaland_ripped_off_a_track_from_my_buddy#c471369 3
I posted that on page 3 but it's a good idea to bring it to the attention, especially as quite a lot of people seem to have missed it.

I notice this controversy has been added to the Timbaland page on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbaland#Plagiarism_controversy

[KyleJCrb]

Did anyone catch this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV2fTEeP6GM&NR

[andyjayne]

Did anyone catch this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV2fTEeP6GM&NR
Posted it on page 3. Here's the link to the actual site if you want it:
http://msntg.zingy.com/selectItem.php?kind=xt&code=03576

[Villainelle]

There is some crazy chance in hell that it's a coincidence that it happened like this. Afterall, there are only 12 notes.

Arpeggiated in the same exact way? Using the same exact (highly distinctive chiptune) instruments as the original? C'mon Mustin. :P

Personally, besides the bizarre mental image of Timbaland browsing scene.org, I found it really strange that they would sample something so incredibly distinct and easy to identify. Which leads me to think, while on the whole the song should be pulled and/or Tempest given credit and royalties--this is probably more an issue of miscommunication/ignorance than deliberate theft.

Has Timbaland ever publically expressed interest in the demoscene? Not that I know of. Is it more likely that a friend of his or someone in his entourage sent him the chiptune and he used it unaware of its origin? I would think so. If we were talking about, e.g. an electronic artist with roots more closely situated to the demoscene, someone in the entourage would probably have caught the song or at least been intrigued and inclined to question where it came from, recognizing it as a chiptune and checking out the demoscene to see who made it.

I think it's more likely that Timbaland and his entourage of hip-hop producers are just ignorant of the demoscene except for whoever brought in the sample.

Never heard about the ringtone rip, but it's possible that could be similar.

Timbaland is an incredibly successful producer--this guy has people buzzing around him constantly, undoubtedly bouncing ideas off him, giving him shit to listen to, etc. That's probably where this came from. He doesn't "need" to do something like this, and it's such a strange, easily identifiable choice of something to rip that it must be either ignorance or arrogance. And whatever you think of Timbaland, would the guy do something like this and jeopardize not only his but Nelly Furtado's career, just to be a dick?

My 2c.

[andyjayne]

I'm going to go ahead and repost that it seems as though it isn't just 12 notes. From what I've read it is 16 bars directly sampled and used from the sid version (done by grg) of tempest's track. Check out the ring tone (block party) for one example and then this processed version of Do It:

For those who are unable to hear the original song by Tempest on the background of the Furtado - Do it, maybe this helps:

http://www.sampsy.com/download/furtado_doit_extracted.mp3

I made it based on the mp3 readily available. Just inverted the right channel and converted to mono which effectively removed the center channel. Some eq'ing added to bring out the arps. Pretty obvious...

Good luck tempest!

-texmex

[sephfire]

Also, its worth noting I even spotted a piece of Intense Colour on SGX's Coactive album (I forgot which song) which was definately the melody line from the Mario Paint song, but I haven't seen him in court yet.

Take the word "definitely" and swap in the phrase "very loosely based upon" and you'll be a bit closer. I should know, I wrote that cello part. Besides which, that very subtle, filtered addition to Coactive lasts all of ten seconds of the entire five minute track, which is completely original. Then recall that the melody which "definitely" was from Mario Paint is a mere eight notes from the whole source tune.

So SGX used a very liberal note progression I wrote which was very loosely based on eight notes from a Mario Paint tune for ten seconds in his five minute remix? That doesn't even compare to the current discussion. I understand what you're trying to communicate, but seriously, this whole example was a senseless reach.

[ILLiterate]

Its worth noting I even spotted a piece of Intense Colour on SGX's Coactive album (I forgot which song) which was definately the melody line from the Mario Paint song, but I haven't seen him in court yet.

You seriously just need to get the fuck out of OCR and stop ruining everything with your stupidity. The song is clearly sited as a Mario Paint remix, and is even on this site (http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01461/). How about you check your facts before you post your babble all over the internet, k thx

EDIT: Hay look, Seph posted at the same-ish time as me :D

[Kitsuta]

EDIT: Hay look, Seph posted at the same-ish time as me :D

You mean 4 hours apart? o__O

[andyjayne]

You seriously just need to get the fuck out of OCR and stop ruining everything with your stupidity. The song is clearly sited as a Mario Paint remix, and is even on this site (http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01461/). How about you check your facts before you post your babble all over the internet, k thx

EDIT: Hay look, Seph posted at the same-ish time as me :D
He was referring to the track Coactive where no Mario Paint reference was mentioned not the Intense Colour track itself. Sephfire has already addressed this point anyway.

Also:
Thats right,

Timbaland sampled my Commodore 64 arrangement. Its all there, lead using multipulse, chords using filters, and the $11 waveform
beeps i put in at random places (because the sid only has 3 channels).

The sid was released in a c64 disk magazine around 2001/2002, after i got permission from Tempest to do-it.

Its probably sampled from a program that can play back c64 .sid files - because the sounds are so plastic..

Real c64 sid chip got more life..

///GRG

[The Vagrance]

You seriously just need to get the fuck out of OCR and stop ruining everything with your stupidity. The song is clearly sited as a Mario Paint remix, and is even on this site (http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01461/). How about you check your facts before you post your babble all over the internet, k thx

For fuck's sake stop acting like you're some goddamn scholar by telling me to get out. I present a counterargument, and suddenly I'm the bottom of the fucking barrel. I guess thats what I get for having an opinion. I have tried to argue this as calmly as I could trying not to resort to personal attacks but I won't tolerate these kinds of attacks against me. Next time read all of my posts and realize that our opinions aren't that far from each other's before making a post that makes you look like an elitist asshole.I'm not a tool, I don't need to get the fuck out, and I'm not as stupid as you guys are making me out to be. I got (or had least had) massive respect for all of you but fuck, if this is how differing opinions are treated then there goes your idea of community.

[dPaladin]

For fuck's sake stop acting like you're some goddamn scholar by telling me to get out. I present a counterargument, and suddenly I'm the bottom of the fucking barrel. I guess thats what I get for having an opinion.
Pretty much, yeah. Especially since you demonstrated your lack of knowledge from the word "Go."

[Arek the Absolute]

For fuck's sake stop acting like you're some goddamn scholar by telling me to get out. (1)I present a counterargument, and suddenly I'm the bottom of the fucking barrel. (2)I guess thats what I get for having an opinion. I have tried to argue this as calmly as I could trying not to resort to personal attacks but I won't tolerate these kinds of attacks against me. Next time read all of my posts and realize that our opinions aren't that far from each other's before making a post that makes you look like an elitist asshole.I'm not a tool, I don't need to get the fuck out, and(3) I'm not as stupid as you guys are making me out to be. I got (or had least had) massive respect for all of you but fuck, (4)if this is how differing opinions are treated then there goes your idea of community.
1- A really bad one, for points already said.
2- Expressing your opinion is fine, but you kept persisting on issues that you have been proven wrong on, therefore taking "opinion" and replacing it with "needless trolling"
3- And you are doing a fine job at showing that /sarcasm
4- Again, a difference between opinion and trolling

[sephfire]

For fuck's sake stop acting like you're some goddamn scholar by telling me to get out. I present a counterargument, and suddenly I'm the bottom of the fucking barrel. I guess thats what I get for having an opinion. I have tried to argue this as calmly as I could trying not to resort to personal attacks but I won't tolerate these kinds of attacks against me. Next time read all of my posts and realize that our opinions aren't that far from each other's before making a post that makes you look like an elitist asshole.I'm not a tool, I don't need to get the fuck out, and I'm not as stupid as you guys are making me out to be. I got (or had least had) massive respect for all of you but fuck, if this is how differing opinions are treated then there goes your idea of community.

Chill. Ignore EazyP's post, he clearly didn't read yours. And while most people's replies to you may have been unnecessarily personal, most have featured valid rebuttals.

Don't get your panties in a bunch over a heated topic. We've seen many people claim OCR music as their own over the years and it annoys us more every time. Seeing the same thing done to someone else doesn't make us any happier.

[The Vagrance]

1- A really bad one, for points already said.

All my argument is "You guys are making too much out of this," thats not a bad argument. A bad argument would be "Timebaland did nothing wrong" which I didn't make.

2- Expressing your opinion is fine, but you kept persisting on issues that you have been proven wrong on, therefore taking "opinion" and replacing it with "needless trolling"

Things I've been proven wrong on I have accepted as being proven wrong on.

3- And you are doing a fine job at showing that /sarcasm

I'll admit it, I got a little out-of-hand last post but when people insult ME as a person (having nothing to do with the arguments), question MY beliefs, and outright tell me that MY opinion or argument is inferior to everybody else's then don't expect me to sit back and take notes.

4- Again, a difference between opinion and trolling

Trolling is taking an outrageous point that no one in their right minds would take, I'm taking the point that everyone is making too much out of what he did, thats not an outrageous point.

Don't get your panties in a bunch over a heated topic. We've seen many people claim OCR music as their own over the years and it annoys us more every time. Seeing the same thing done to someone else doesn't make us any happier.

Sorry, I'm just fed up with unneeded elitism, thanks for being calm about this which I have (until now) tried to do. I understand a lot of the arguments people are making and thats fine, a lot of it comes down to personal opinion of the matter. Legally, he would be in hot water if it weren't for his status, I'll admit to that.

[Fire in the Hole]

You have got one of the worst cases of denial I've ever seen. FYI

[Arek the Absolute]

All of this drama is pointless and should be stopped in this thread. Let us no longer talk about personal quarrels, shall we?
And by the way, you can troll without acting like a complete ass, so you are wrong on that kthx.

[Orange Pylon]

the group that actually buys Nelly Furtado's CDs.

I bought the latest one, but that was more for Timbaland than Nelly herself.

Also, news flash: samples aren't new in the world of hip-hop and pop production, and if Timbo really did sample the song it's just a background melody on the track anyway, so it detracts very little from the quality of the song. As I understand it, unlike many producers Timbo has been mostly unreliant on samples in his career anyhow.

Samples or no, Timbaland's still one of the top producers in the industry.

[Fire in the Hole]

I bought the latest one, but that was more for Timbaland than Nelly herself.

Also, news flash: samples aren't new in the world of hip-hop and pop production, and if Timbo really did sample the song it's just a background melody on the track anyway, so it detracts very little from the song.

Samples or no, Timbaland's still one of the top producers in the industry.

How much of this thread did you actually read?

[Orange Pylon]

Very little, I assure you.

[Fire in the Hole]

Very little, I assure you.

kk just makin sure

[bucky o'hare]

Very little, I assure you.
To bring you up to speed more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV2fTEeP6GM

[DiggiDis]

Mr. Orange Pylon ..

I'm affraid you don't have an idea how MUCH timbaland relies on other peoples idea's ..

About EVERY hit you've heard of him ..

Someone elses work .. that he pitched / cut up / etc. just to fit his shit ..

Go and search for some sample mixes .. ( VA Samplemix ) there they will show you every original next to his compositions.

For a bigass hiphop producer .. he's not that creative.

[lazygecko]

I created a YTMND for this, seeing as how much the site has grown in recent years it's a pretty effective way of spreading the word:
http://timbalandtempest.ytmnd.com/

[Fire in the Hole]

I created a YTMND for this, seeing as how much the site has grown in recent years it's a pretty effective way of spreading the word:
http://timbalandtempest.ytmnd.com/

that is NOT "nigga stole my song" dammit

[sephfire]

I created a YTMND for this, seeing as how much the site has grown in recent years it's a pretty effective way of spreading the word:
http://timbalandtempest.ytmnd.com/

Perfect summary of the situation. Excellent presentation, Mr. Gecko.

[supremespleen]

Awesome work Gecko.

[Arek the Absolute]

Have you read the replies?
Gecko started a war. Nice fucking job dude! No, seriously!

[Leress]

That's awesome!

[Wolfstan]

That's one damn catchy chiptune. Much better than the shit they turned it into. Nothing against any genre of music, but the original just sounds better to my ears.

[Orange Pylon]

Mr. Orange Pylon ..

I'm affraid you don't have an idea how MUCH timbaland relies on other peoples idea's ..

About EVERY hit you've heard of him ..

Someone elses work .. that he pitched / cut up / etc. just to fit his shit ..

Go and search for some sample mixes .. ( VA Samplemix ) there they will show you every original next to his compositions.

For a bigass hiphop producer .. he's not that creative.

Could you give me a link? I'm a bit confused by the search results.

[neminem]

Timbaland is not a good producer. He's a good sampler and borrower. If he would stop that and just make everything from scratch, it'd be a lot more respectable.

Um... no? If he would cite his sources, he'd be respectable. Sampling has been a mainstay of the genre for ages, and personally, I consider it the only good thing about the genre. I hate Rihanna, for instance, but I love S.O.S.... why? Because it samples Tainted Love. Not just a little bit here and there - Tainted Love is the focus of the entire instrumentation for the song, which makes the song awesome. This is even cooler, because it samples something dear to my heart, namely, chiptune music. Yes, he should state where he got his music from, so this sort of thing doesn't happen. But I think everyone is missing the really important piece, as far as I'm concerned: a mainstream musician just sampled a chiptune. I want to see more of this!

[Mustin]

I see your point, but do you realize kids are hearing that music and think it's totally original? It reminds me of the time my buddy brought over his kid sister and saw me playing the OG Donkey Kong on NES. She saw me get the hammer and said, "They stole that from Smash Brothers."

I asked him and her to leave.

I find it far more interesting and respectable when people make their own music. I very very very very rarely do sampling with any of my clients - I prefer to make everything myself. That said, I also don't mind remaking a song from scratch, just like we do here at OCR, and then putting their vocals on that.

Just show me you can actually write something on your own. To me, that's respect.

[Chickenwarlord]

I see your point, but do you realize kids are hearing that music and think it's totally original? It reminds me of the time my buddy brought over his kid sister and saw me playing the OG Donkey Kong on NES. She saw me get the hammer and said, "They stole that from Smash Brothers."

I asked him and her to leave.
That's absolutely hilarious.
Almost like saying that the harpsichord is a total rip-off of the piano.

[bucky o'hare]

I see your point, but do you realize kids are hearing that music and think it's totally original? It reminds me of the time my buddy brought over his kid sister and saw me playing the OG Donkey Kong on NES. She saw me get the hammer and said, "They stole that from Smash Brothers."

I asked him and her to leave.
That is beautiful.

[Blue Magic]

Damn kids and their damn iPods!

[DiggiDis]

Click this shit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOXgCIF8eqg)

Now these are some asskicking beatmaking skillz.

Search for "Czar's Timbo Sample Mix Vol" on p2p ..
there's a bunch of people on this shit : Forums (http://www.the-breaks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=957&start=180&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)

I can also advice you to check the Dr. Dre samplemixes.
Like every track you'd think he did .. well he didn't ..

[neminem]

So... tonight, I decided to have a bit of fun. Everytime a popular artist borrows something big, a mashup artist has been there to provide amusement in the form of a mix of the two: I think immediately of PartyBen's Computer Talk (of Coldplay v. Kraftwerk), and Cheekyboy's Tom Petty v. Chili Peppers. I wanted to get in on the action this time, so bam:
neminem - Do Acid (http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~afield/mashups/neminem_-_Do_Acid.mp3) (Tempest v. Glenn v. Nelly Furtado)

It's a bit dirty, still, since I obviously didn't have a 'pella or an instrumental to work with, just the originals. Incidentally, just overlaying the chiptune over the Furtado tune didn't sound that great - they're too similar in some ways, but not quite similar enough in other ways, so it just sounded off. What did sound good, though, was overlaying the original tune by tempest over the Furtado tune; then I added a bit more of the chiptune in places.

Oh yeah. Then, while I was already there, I made this, as well:
neminem - Acid Signs (http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~afield/mashups/neminem_-_Acid_Signs.mp3) (Tempest v. Glenn v. Snoop Dogg).

As you can see, Mustin: I consider what I do to be real music, of a (rather twisted) sort, even though I am perfectly happy to admit that I have no skill at writing anything of my own. What I do differently, though, is state explicitly where everything I stole came from. That's the difference between borrowing and plagiarism.

[The Joker]

That was awesome neminem! Though, I need to get my hands on a mp3 of acidjazzed evening, that's not on googlepages. Cause google pages suck with dial up.

[OverCoat]

If you have dialup why don't you just play the .mod file? That way the song is only ~50kb instead of 3.5 MB.

[supremespleen]

Gecko's ytmnd is on the most viewed list.
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5583/gogogeckokr5.th.png (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gogogeckokr5.png)

[po!]

dang, too much emphasis on TIMBALAND here. it's obvious he sampled the tune, but i highly doubt he is the one actually responsible for clearing the samples. the Geffen legal team should take the blame here, not timbaland

[Kitsuta]

So... tonight, I decided to have a bit of fun. Everytime a popular artist borrows something big, a mashup artist has been there to provide amusement in the form of a mix of the two: I think immediately of PartyBen's Computer Talk (of Coldplay v. Kraftwerk), and Cheekyboy's Tom Petty v. Chili Peppers. I wanted to get in on the action this time, so bam:
neminem - Do Acid (http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~afield/mashups/neminem_-_Do_Acid.mp3) (Tempest v. Glenn v. Nelly Furtado)

It's a bit dirty, still, since I obviously didn't have a 'pella or an instrumental to work with, just the originals. Incidentally, just overlaying the chiptune over the Furtado tune didn't sound that great - they're too similar in some ways, but not quite similar enough in other ways, so it just sounded off. What did sound good, though, was overlaying the original tune by tempest over the Furtado tune; then I added a bit more of the chiptune in places.

Oh yeah. Then, while I was already there, I made this, as well:
neminem - Acid Signs (http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~afield/mashups/neminem_-_Acid_Signs.mp3) (Tempest v. Glenn v. Snoop Dogg).

As you can see, Mustin: I consider what I do to be real music, of a (rather twisted) sort, even though I am perfectly happy to admit that I have no skill at writing anything of my own. What I do differently, though, is state explicitly where everything I stole came from. That's the difference between borrowing and plagiarism.

It helps that using parody puts your work under Fair Use.

[Mustin]

Not necessarily. You're still taking a copyrighted work and using it for your own purpose and then giving it away, which infringes on that copyright. A parody is Space Balls to Star Wars. They didn't actually use any of the Star Wars names, any of the same ships, actual Lightsabers - anything from the actual movie. That's a parody. What Weird Al does isn't a parody - he actually has to license the masters from the publishers and the record companies and then puts his own spin on it.

[TimberWolf]

dang, too much emphasis on TIMBALAND here. it's obvious he sampled the tune, but i highly doubt he is the one actually responsible for clearing the samples. the Geffen legal team should take the blame here, not timbaland
More like ILLEGAL TEAM.

M i rite?

[zircon]

Not necessarily. You're still taking a copyrighted work and using it for your own purpose and then giving it away, which infringes on that copyright. A parody is Space Balls to Star Wars. They didn't actually use any of the Star Wars names, any of the same ships, actual Lightsabers - anything from the actual movie. That's a parody. What Weird Al does isn't a parody - he actually has to license the masters from the publishers and the record companies and then puts his own spin on it.

Yeah. Of course, Weird Al still might be able to argue fair use even if he *didn't* ask but it would be a legal headache that I'm sure he would rather not bother with.

[Leress]

Not necessarily. You're still taking a copyrighted work and using it for your own purpose and then giving it away, which infringes on that copyright. A parody is Space Balls to Star Wars. They didn't actually use any of the Star Wars names, any of the same ships, actual Lightsabers - anything from the actual movie. That's a parody. What Weird Al does isn't a parody - he actually has to license the masters from the publishers and the record companies and then puts his own spin on it.

Not really
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wierd_Al#Reactions_from_original_artists

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

Wow man, I think Gecko and OCR by consequence caused a stir. Gecko's ytmnd is linked on a joystiq article on the subject:

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/18/rap-song-samples-extensively-from-c64-demo/

[Effector]

Wow, pretty awesome coverage there. I really like seeing this kind of stuff get spread all over the internet - getting the truth out. Nice work on the YTMND Gecko, it's quickly becoming the go-to synopsis of the whole debacle.

[supremespleen]

Weird Al does not legally have to request permission from artists to do songs.

[Blue Magic]

Weird Al does not legally have to request permission from artists to do songs.

Yeah, he's a pimp like that.

[Effector]

Yeah, he's a pimp like that.

If by "pimp", we mean "person who parodies", then yes.

Your post just makes it sound like he has some sort of special privilege, when in reality, anyone is protected by fair use as long as they sample for a parody or for historic/editorial purposes.

Sorry, just wanted to clarify.

[Arek the Absolute]

Hope this gets digged as well, so that gecko also gets benefit from this :D

[zircon]

Not exactly. Fair Use law is NOT all encompassing. It's determined on a case by case basis. Unlike laws about, say, sampling (ALWAYS illegal w/o permission, no matter how unrecognizable or how short) Fair Use is much more nebulous.

[Mr. Wizard]

I have little to say on the controversy itself that hasn't already been said, but I'll be damned if this song by Tempest isn't catchy. It's been stuck in my head all day. I hope Tempest gets his due from all this exposure, one way or another.

[Arek the Absolute]

If anything, I hope a producer goes to tempest and asks him to create phat beats for him, so that way he can show Timbaland up at his own game.

[Effector]

Not exactly. Fair Use law is NOT all encompassing. It's determined on a case by case basis. Unlike laws about, say, sampling (ALWAYS illegal w/o permission, no matter how unrecognizable or how short) Fair Use is much more nebulous.

I understand that, and the worst part is that the case rulings are so huge in number and often contradictory... I'm not a law major, and even if I was, I'm not sure it would make sense to me.

BTW, though, I really like Gecko's YTMND because it gives good evidence that they are the same thing - the C64 version used arpeggios because of technical limitations (correct me if that's not right), and those still exist in the ringtone and "Do It".

Good call Gecko, hope this gets out there.

[Fire in the Hole]

This thread is still extremely disappointing.

[Leress]

Sorry for the thread necromancy

http://www.fairlight.fi/tempest/acidjazzed_evening/

[anne amère]

Why hasn't YouTube disabled comments yet?

[Sauzer]

It's a phat beat regardless. This way it gets more exposure etc

[Woe Is You]

It's from a video game, idiot. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTvY3wZrHrQ)

Wow, just wow.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

It's from a video game, idiot. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTvY3wZrHrQ)

Wow, just wow.

No, it's not. It's an original chiptune. Way to read the topic so you know what you're talking about when you post, idiot.

Wow, just wow.

[Effector]

Now, I can't understand what Timbaland is mumbling about in half that youtube video, but I think that's a quote during the interview?

Regardless, settle down, Taucer.

[Arek the Absolute]

It's from a video game, idiot. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTvY3wZrHrQ)

Wow, just wow.

Lame attempt at trolling.
try again plz

[Anorak]

...

He's not trolling. As was already said, this is a line spoken by Timbaland in the video linked, followed by "Wow. Just wow." to show his amazement toward the stupidity of this claim. It would have been nice of you guys to actually click the link before resorting to name calling.

Sorry to lecture, but calling someone 'idiot' because you didn't read their post right drives me crazy.

[atmuh]

...

He's not trolling. As was already said, this is a line spoken by Timbaland in the video linked, followed by "Wow. Just wow." to show his amazement toward the stupidity of this claim. It would have been nice of you guys to actually click the link before resorting to name calling.

Sorry to lecture, but calling someone 'idiot' because you didn't read their post right drives me crazy.

khttp://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1183/untitled5qo.jpg

[Leress]

That is why one should label the link that way no one gets confused

[Bahamut]

Well, for some reason the link doesn't appear properly sometimes...and lol to Timbaland's response.

[andyjayne]

From MTV...
It makes me laugh. The part I don't understand, the dude is trying to act like I went to his house and took it from his computer. I don't know him from a can of paint. I'm 15 years deep. That's how you attack a king? You attack moi? Come on, man. You got to come correct. You the laughing stock. People are like, 'You can't be serious.'

[Woe Is You]

I knew I should've put that in parentheses. Yes, basically Timbaland is saying: "I'm clueless, but who gives a shit about some Finn? I'm fucking Timbaland."

And THAT is the reason to my "Wow, just wow". This is the peak of irony, considering the guy's been extremely sensitive about other guys ripping him off. Before I'd have said Tempest has little chance, but if he's slinging dumb comments like this in court too, well, maybe things aren't so bleak after all.

[Prizm4]

This is why I can't stand the radio and especially R&B. The rip-offs are getting worse and worse. And if I'm correct, half the time they only rip-off enough of the original to bypass copyright laws (like 10% of the original or whatever).

Crap like S.O.S, Eminem's "Toy Soldiers", whoever recently ripped "Another Day in Paradise", the ripoff of Bobby Vinton's "Mr Lonely", and the list goes on. But the plastics and teeny boppers lap it up like it's some new thing, as someone mentioned earlier.

If any R&B song has a good melody behind it these days, you can pretty much guarantee they ripped it from someone else.

Prizm

[OverCoat]

maybe things aren't so bleak after all.

Have you googled for Timbaland news at all?

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=Timbaland&btnG=Search+News

"Timbaland's Genius Mystifies Him"
"Timbaland - The Grammys’ Unsung Hero"
"Super producer Timbaland scores numerous nominations for the 49th Annual Grammy Awards"

Only one news post on the song ripping, the rest of the results worship Timbaland as some sort of audio production god [and he thinks himself one, too, clearly]. Timbaland is right, nobody gives a shit about Tempest. I kinda figured it'd be like this from day 1, I knew Timbaland would say something incredibly ignorant and act like a mumbling shoop da woop idiot and he'll only look better in the eyes of mainstream music listeners because of it. The court case will probably end up being something totally ridiculous.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

...

He's not trolling. As was already said, this is a line spoken by Timbaland in the video linked, followed by "Wow. Just wow." to show his amazement toward the stupidity of this claim. It would have been nice of you guys to actually click the link before resorting to name calling.

Sorry to lecture, but calling someone 'idiot' because you didn't read their post right drives me crazy. I didn't realize that was a link, and misinterpereted the post. My apologies.

Realizing what you meant now, I fully agree.

[OverCoat]

I didn't realize that was a link, and misinterpereted the post. My apologies.

See DJP? The longer you wait to fix the link colors, the more people misunderstand each other :(

[Effector]

Another point to Rama and his Firefox Stylish skin thing.

But yeah, I have to agree with Overcoat. Timbaland is hailed as some kind of musical genius, so I'll doubt the Finn will get anything in or out of court. Even if he does, no one will care that Timbaland stole anything.

[Ramaniscence]

Another point to Rama and his Firefox Stylish skin thing.

But yeah, I have to agree with Overcoat. Timbaland is hailed as some kind of musical genius, so I'll doubt the Finn will get anything in or out of court. Even if he does, no one will care that Timbaland stole anything.

lol yea, I never even knew about the link colors because I've NEVER used the default theme =P