Sonic the Hedgehog's sad state [Archive] - OverClocked ReMix Forums

Spunodi

02-09-2007, 06:09 PM

It's a shame.

Sonic is my childhood and profiteering (i.e. rushing out a buggy and broken game) is killing it.

HOWEVER, Sonic Rush was ace.

Sonic Rivals, though I've never played it, was supposedly decent.

The Sonic and the Secret Rings impressions are all surprisingly positive.

But the 'big one' failed through greed - no self-respecting game company should have allowed Sonic 2K6 out. To be honest, although Sonic Heroes is often cited as the series downfall, it was Shadow's game that killed it for me.

Surely quality control should be the thing of most importance to Sega and maybe they will realise that as the poor Sonic 2K6 reviews and sales should support.

I almost went off gaming after my favourite series went so downhill, however, Gears of War has reeled me back in and I await a return to the glory days in the future. One can only hope.

EdgeCrusher

02-09-2007, 06:13 PM

There hasn't been a good Sonic game since what? S&K? Yeah. Thats about the last one. Kill him off.

RealFolkBlues

02-09-2007, 06:18 PM

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/929718.asp?q=sonic%20the%20hedgehog

That's pretty consistent, too. Ouch, SEGA. And people wonder why they're not making consoles anymore.

atmuh

02-09-2007, 06:19 PM

I enjoyed Sonic Adventure but after that it was all dooooooooownhill.

Sir_NutS

02-09-2007, 06:21 PM

There hasn't been a good Sonic game since what? S&K? Yeah. Thats about the last one. Kill him off.
I actually enjoyed Sonic Adv. on dreamcast, for the time it was really pretty, and a very good start, the game wasn't perfect but showed promise and at some points you could feel that adrenaline rush from older sonic games. The series started to die for me after S Adv.2 when they started to forget what sonic was about.

If the Wii version is at least as decent as Sonic adv. 1, and then a bit more fun then there's still hope.

Airwalker

02-09-2007, 06:34 PM

I enjoyed Sonic Adventure but after that it was all dooooooooownhill.

I must say I was a fan of that too, despite what some may say about it.

Sure, Sonic Adventure was far off from the days of Genesis, but I felt it was a decent game.

Ffej

02-09-2007, 06:51 PM

Sir_NutS

02-09-2007, 07:14 PM

I knew this game would end up blowing as soon as they revealed Silver. Sonic needs less characters. I think the series peaked at Sonic 2, and though a few good games have come out after that, nothing has quite matched up to Sonic 1, 2 and CD.

Yeah I agree, SEGA: less Characters please. Focus on sonic and tails, and create a deep experience with only those, I think that would work better than trying to focus on a bunch of characters that, in my opinion, aren't nearly as likable as sonic, and most of them are plain annoying. I think the focus on sonic is one of the elements that will make the Wii version superior.

Miletus

02-09-2007, 07:22 PM

Sonic's likeable? I stopped liking him the moment he opened his mouth. Except for in The New Adventures of Sonic and Tails, he was a riot in that.

The sonic franchise has really lost its way. It's sad.

Mr.Roboto

02-09-2007, 07:25 PM

Yeah I agree, SEGA: less Characters please. Focus on sonic and tails, and create a deep experience with only those, I think that would work better than trying to focus on a bunch of characters that, in my opinion, aren't nearly as likable as sonic, and most of them are plain annoying. I think the focus on sonic is one of the elements that will make the Wii version superior.

Hopefully the other characters will stay in the Multiplayer portion.

Hopefully.

Maco70

02-09-2007, 08:46 PM

There hasn't been a good Sonic game since what? S&K? Yeah. Thats about the last one. Kill him off.

S&K was prolly the best, imo. But Sonic CD wasn't too bad.

Basically Sonic started to suck once he went 3d.

The Coop

02-09-2007, 08:52 PM

I thought Sonic Adventure was decent, and the same goes for "2". Sonic Heroes was a bit iffy, and Shadow the Hedgehog, while not as horrid as some reviews made it out to be, was a mistake. It's like the same game engine kept getting used over and over again, as all the games have camera issues, control issues, and lack speed to the same degree. The only thing that changed, was the graphics aspect with the newer games. Maybe it's time for Sonic Team to let someone else have a 3-D go at it.

And am I the only one who actually enjoyed Sonic 3D Blast? Sure, it wasn't as fast as the previous Genesis (and later, Saturn) games, but it was still fun.

Maco70

02-09-2007, 09:23 PM

And am I the only one who actually enjoyed Sonic 3D Blast? Sure, it wasn't as fast as the previous Genesis (and later, Saturn) games, but it was still fun.

It was decent, but the game gave me a headache.
I dunno, I just really didn't like the game.

Subz1987

02-09-2007, 09:25 PM

Sonic Heroes was a step in the right direction. Sure, it was cheesy, but the return of 2 act levels and bosses, as well as the debut of special stages in a 3D Sonic Game was a promising start. Sonic Heroes should have been the launch point that would lead to a great 3D Sonic game that would have the gameplay of the Genesis games, but in 3D. However, Sonic Team went down at Shadow the Hedgehog, and it hasn't been the same since.

Kureejii Lea

02-09-2007, 10:07 PM

I knew this game would end up blowing as soon as they revealed Silver.

Funnily enough, I found Silver's gameplay the most fun of anyone's in that thing (Sonic handled like a skateboard on ice and Shadow was only marginally better). It's amazing how utterly retarded they made Tails' flying, and don't even get me started on his attack.

I-n-j-i-n

02-09-2007, 10:32 PM

Why do people hold out hope that the Wii version will be any better? The same company is making it and you can expect the same horrible results, only with a wonkier control scheme.

But seriously, I think just about all Sonic games outside the GBA/DS Sonic games can go to the "crap games we love" list.

And even with the handheld Sonic games, the attacks are just bad. Actually, the core gameplay of Sonic games are a bit suspect. You can barely see the action happening in front of you and you merely jump and attack out of impulse a lot of the times. And a lot of trial and error gameplay.

Petara

02-09-2007, 10:50 PM

I'm pretty sure this new one is a crap game that no one really loves... Can't believe I spent 60 freakin bucks on it.

The Phalanx

02-09-2007, 10:53 PM

Why do people hold out hope that the Wii version will be any better? The same company is making it and you can expect the same horrible results, only with a wonkier control scheme.

SEGA has been doing this for years, and people don't realise.

SEGA: Hay guys remember when Sonic was good? We're bringing that back with the new one! Honestly this time!
Fans: Yay!
Sega: Oops lol, sorry guys.
Fans: Boo!
SEGA: Hay guys remember when Sonic was good? We're bringing that back with the new one! Honestly this time!
Fans: Yay!
Sega: Oops lol, sorry guys.
Fans: Boo!
SEGA: Hay guys remember when Sonic was good? We're bringing that back with the new one! Honestly this time!
Fans: Yay!
Sega: Oops lol, sorry guys.
Fans: Boo!
SEGA: Hay guys remember when Sonic was good? We're bringing that back with the new one! Honestly this time!
Fans: Yay!
Sega: Oops lol, sorry guys.
Fans: Boo!

Repeat for the next 7 titles.

watkinzez

02-09-2007, 11:45 PM

Why do people hold out hope that the Wii version will be any better? The same company is making it and you can expect the same horrible results, only with a wonkier control scheme.

While the above is amazingly accurate, it's probably the 'classic' Sonic appeal of Secret Rings bringing people in. No extra human characters, lack of corny story etc. Even if the experience turns out lacklustre, nostalgia would probably hold it up for the dedicated fans.

As for me, there's plenty other good games on the market I can play instead. Not waiting for Sonic Team to get their shit together.

KyleJCrb

02-09-2007, 11:48 PM

Mr. Roboto: As far as has been revealed, Tails and Knuckles make non-playable appearances in the main game. The rest of the characters are relegated to the multiplayer section. So this time it's all about Sonic, which is a good thing.

Why do people hold out hope that the Wii version will be any better? The same company is making it and you can expect the same horrible results, only with a wonkier control scheme.

No, the Wii version is by an entirely different development team. Sure, it's within SEGA, but not everything to come out of them lately has been terrible (See: Outrun 2 SP, or anything else by AM2 or Amusement Vision). Sonic Team is the problem with Sonic lately: Not SEGA itself.

I personally loved Sonic Heroes. After the atrocious wasted hours of treasure-hunting in SA2, it was nice to go back to a game that was pretty much just about the speed, even if the team aspect was a little convoluted and camera problems were still there. Not perfect, but I certainly thought it was an improvement. I thought Shadow was pretty boring, but not necessarily bad. At least the music was pretty good (as has been the case with all of the 3D titles up until the new StH, when they got someone other than Jun Senoue. Stupid Sonic Team).

Hector

02-10-2007, 12:13 AM

I remember hearing pretty good stuff about the Sonic title for the DS. That's gotta count for something.

I-n-j-i-n

02-10-2007, 12:20 AM

I actually liked the Sonic Adventure series too. But those were definitely not very good titles objectively speaking. Horrible camera, on-rails platforming, music that was borderline insane at times, etc. But at least the characters were cute and the whole atmosphere was pretty good.

But you hear the same complaints about Sonic games now: Too short (even if the oldschool Sonic games were very short in their own right, a 3 hour game is considered too short nowadays. And I spent one day of Sonic Heroes rental and beat it all), too easy or too difficult depending on how much the camera angles mess up the action and etcetera.

At least I can argue that one other game series is falling apart in a worse fashion and that is the Silent Hill series.

Culturekoi

02-10-2007, 01:01 AM

I pinpoint the exact moment that the Sonic series was destroyed as Sonic Adventure 2. When I first saw Shadow, all I could think of was that scene from the episode of the Simpsons where they added Poochie to the Itchy and Scratchy show. "Needs more attitude." It should just be Sonic, Tails and Knuckles. That's all. And they should never, EVER speak. EVER. It makes it all so much worse.

I refused to play Shadow the Hedgehog when it came out, I refused Sonic Heroes, and I nearly puked when they decided "lawl lets put sonic on a AIR BORD LOLOLOL!" It sickens me.

I'm going to go play the anniversary collection on my Gamecube now and enjoy S3&K, probably the high point of the series (except perhaps CD- I don't know, I've never played). Screw the new Sonic game and how dare they give it the same title as the sacred original. Blasphemers.

bouncerboy15

02-10-2007, 01:05 AM

Why do people hold out hope that the Wii version will be any better? The same company is making it and you can expect the same horrible results, only with a wonkier control scheme.
FYI, it's not made by Sonic Team.

JoeFu

02-10-2007, 01:37 AM

I'm looking forward to SatSR in a few weeks.

Seriously though, Sonic has sucked since Adventure. The game was great when it came out (other than big the freaking cat), but SEGA has done nothing to the formula since that game came out. They use the same crappy camera and it seems like the use the same engine for each game and the only thing they changed was the graphics.

I hope SatSR does not suck balls.

TonitoX2

02-10-2007, 02:23 AM

This is my first post here but i've been a frequent ocremixes visitor for 3-4 years now. And I recently downloaded the Project Chaos album that was release here *which in my opinion..awesome* but I've felt like sharing my 2 cents into the matter. I am really disappointed with the recent Sonic games but I highly doubt any "good" sonic games will come out. I think it was cheer luck that Sonic Rush was good, because to tell you the truth, the problem with game companies now is that they just milk the crap out of their "gold mines". Sega sadly after "Sonic X-Treme" not making the cut, sold out for me. I am not going to blame Shadow the Hedgehog whatsoever because I believe that's not where the problem began. In fact, I dig the character "Shadow the hedgehog" but it was a really bad time to bring that guy out, it was in fact the last nail in the coffin. The problem had already begun when Sega got greedy with where they stood with their console back in the 90s. I noticed this after reading how Sonic was made *the original 1 2 3 & Knuckles*. There was dedication to those games because back in the day.. "rivalry" existed! When you got rivalry, you want perfection! You want to be the best! But that's not the case anymore. Hence why Sega is making games now instead of consoles. It's all about "making money". And if it means to "milk" the shit out of a formula, or use one of the worlds best gaming mascots to make a crap load of incarnations, trust me! IT WILL BE DONE.

I bet Sonic Team has probably come out with 2 - 3 good ideas that could've been awesome sonic games for our generation, but I bet you their bosses just shut down their idea because they decided to stick with the formula that "works". The formula that makes money. I hate to say it, you guys are trash talking all these sonic games but I bet each and one of you have either rented the new sonics, or bought the new sonics. That's money right there for them. So regardless they are winning. They don't care about how you feel where sonic needs to be they just want their cut. Unless, [we] the ultimate consumer stops renting / buying or giving any attention to the brand "Sonic The Hedgehog" we will continue to get shitty Sonic titles. The hope right now is that some new team shows up.. whom Sega doesn't give a rats $#$ about and they "see" what we see and make an awesome game. That game could possibly be that Wii game.

Until then.. it's going to be crappy water down wanna be originals of Sonic 1 & 2 & 3.

Remember, we are getting old now. While these games might be crap to us. These games are probably the "shit" for little kids. Just how they were to us when we first got em. And as long as little kids exist.. there's no reason to stop the formula.

BTW: It's best if by default all of you stop comparing the 'newer' sonics to the old sonics. It would help appreciate the good parts of the new sonics. Don't get me wrong, as a "true sonic" fan I detest! Sonic Adventure 1 and Adventure 2. Now lets say I was new to the series. NEVER EVER played Sonic! They were great games in my opinion. They were the first of their kind. Making mascots talk to each other *which was already done with the cartoon shows*, now you controlling them and of course add the "super saiyan" formula and you got one kick ass game. Let's not forget the soundtrack for SA1 and SA2 was decent stand alone by itself. Hence why it's called "Sonic Adventure" not "Sonic The Hedgehog". This of course is my opinion based on that I am not comparing the originals to the new stuff. Now if I would... man I so hate on the new sonics lol.

Think about it! Kids of that generation are gonna grow up to complain that games should be as cool as SA1 and SA2 in terms of gameplay and soundtrack. The cycle will never end. I just decided to accept the fact that we were the guinea pigs of the 1st videogame generation. Be thankful we were 1st generation =).

I seriously think some of you guys have it on point and some of you need to separate your "fan" love to a series and open your eyes to the future. Those classics were made in 1992+ ... we are in 2007, for the love of god! We are older now and have matured!... Perhaps it's time to let go of somethings.., no?

Ffej

02-10-2007, 03:47 AM

I know who can save the Sonic series: Jaleel White.

Mechasonic4ever

02-10-2007, 03:50 AM

I know who can save the Sonic series: Jaleel White.

You are so right i am really surprised that they haven't made a Satam cartoon series game. Truly if executed right that would be fricken awesome

watkinzez

02-10-2007, 03:53 AM

Never bought a Sonic game in my life. Only ever finished Sonic 3, so I'm not comparing. The 3D games simply came off as poor mascot showrunners to me.
Probably in the minority, though.

Sir_NutS

02-10-2007, 04:10 AM

Tonito: the problem is not that the Sonic fans feel that the game isn't up to par with past sonic games, it's that the games are actually bad by themselves. whether it's stupidly planned gameplay ike treasure hunting in sadv 2 or almost no gameplay like in some sections of sonic adv. where some of the speedy sections were cpu controlled, or giving the main character guns and shitty camera, the games have failed so far to set themselves apart as good games.

and Injin, the Wii game is a totally different version from the ps3 and x360 incarnations. It's another story, another design, a completely different game, and this one is about speeding through levels, multiple routes, split-second reactions, etc. So far the media and player have praised the demos that had been shown so there's still a bit of hope with that one.

q-pa

02-10-2007, 04:30 AM

SEGA: Hay guys remember when Sonic was good? We're bringing that back with the new one! Honestly this time!
Fans: Yay!
Sega: Oops lol, sorry guys.
Fans: Boo!
SEGA: Hay guys remember when Sonic was good? We're bringing that back with the new one! Honestly this time!
Fans: Yay!
Sega: Oops lol, sorry guys.
Fans: Boo!
SEGA: Hay guys remember when Sonic was good? We're bringing that back with the new one! Honestly this time!
Fans: Yay!
Sega: Oops lol, sorry guys.
Fans: Boo!
SEGA: Hay guys remember when Sonic was good? We're bringing that back with the new one! Honestly this time!
Fans: Yay!
Sega: Oops lol, sorry guys.
Fans: Boo!

Repeat for the next 7 titles.
QFE.

I've lost pretty much all trust for the responsible parties since Heroes promised and failed to deliver.

Never bought a Sonic game in my life. Only ever finished Sonic 3, so I'm not comparing. The 3D games simply came off as poor mascot showrunners to me.
Probably in the minority, though.

So you do realize that that was only "half a game," right?

Speaking of which, according to the stories I've heard the Genesis titles were rush jobs too. But the difference, I suppose, is that the gameplay heald up. Judging from those and messing around in the debug modes, I compare those titles to a stage set. The immediate surroundings were pretty and fun, but if you venture out of them to where you're not supposed to go, you'll see the underbelly that sadly never left the series and is now threatening to derail the entire thing.

Edit: OCR member Nineko has a whole collection of Genesis Sonic bugs up on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=nineko

JoeFu

02-10-2007, 04:31 AM

Just watched the new videos that IGN posted. The game looks fast and fun. I pre-ordered it off Amazon yesterday for 44 bucks :) I hope it doesn't blow... PLEASE DON'T BLOW!

Also, I've beaten all sonics on the Genesis. I think the only reason we had a Genesis in our house was because of Sonic...

I really, really, really hope that SatSR does not suck.

The Coop

02-10-2007, 04:39 AM

It's best if by default all of you stop comparing the 'newer' sonics to the old sonics. It would help appreciate the good parts of the new sonics.

It's a bit hard not to compare the old Sonics to the new ones, TonitoX2.

What drew people into the old Genesis (and Sega CD) Sonic games, were their simplicity, their colorful graphics, their happy tunes, and the huge levels that were still easy to explore around in. You had a jump button, and that was it. A special move here or there, but in the end, it was just simply a jump button... and you always knew where it was going to send you unless you were moving very fast. That single button, coupled with the speed the series is known for, enabled you to go just about anywhere. And usually what happened in the various stages were centered around those two aspects. Sonic Team struck a balance between giving you a lot explore, while keeping the means to do so simple, and easy to use.

By far the worst thing about the new Sonic games, is the utterly spastic camera. It never stays still. You can run in a straight line, and the moment an object gets slightly near it, the camera spins off in another direction... and this makes your character run in another direction. You were running along the narrow patch of ground, but now your character turned left as the camera panned to the right. The end result, is your death. This happens on the rail segments (the camera pans away so you can't see what's up ahead), the open ground (now you can't see the enemy that was coming at you), the jumping segments ("Hey! Where'd the platform go?! OH SHIIIIIIiiiii...!")... there isn't an aspect where the camera stayed in place even after you maneuvered it to get the best view. Even Boss battles and the simple act of jumping became frustrating.

Speaking of jumping, this becomes an exercise in cursing, as trying to land on things is made harder thanks to the camera wandering around. What was so fundamental in the 16bit (and 8bit) 2D Sonic games, was broken in the 3D ones. Running and jumping wasn't a means to reach new areas, but a new way to kill off your character thanks to not being able to see what you were jumping up at, or falling towards, half the time. The two most fundamental aspects of the Sonic franchise, haven't worked right since it went 3D.

As I said, I still enjoyed SA1 and even SA2. The 3D games have kept the colorful graphics for the most part, and they did a good job transforming the 2D characters into 3D ones. Hell, even the music manages to be upbeat and catchy most of the time. But the camera that has yet to be tamed by Sonic Team keeps screwing with everything. You can't go full steam, because you're given a hard time seeing what's ahead. And jumping around isn't made any easier, for much the same reason. The 3D Sonic games have had a huge dent put into the series' core gameplay thanks to that camera issue.

We know 3D cameras can work, as even the original Tomb Raider did a better job with it. Until Sonic Team can get a handle on coding a helpful camera, their 3D games are going to continue to have issues. And until the gameplay gets honed back down to what made the original games so memorable (do we have to go digging over a huge area just to find that one item... again?), the 3D games are going to be compared to the faster, streamlined, and less tedious 2D offerings.

It's not about nostalgia. It's about getting the series back to what made it a success in the first place...

*Sonic- Can run and spin dash
*Tails- Can fly for short distances and spin dash
*Knuckles- Can glide, climb walls, and spin dash.
* The goal is to go as fast as you can to the end of the level, or jump around and explore the level, reaching new areas/power ups as you do.

Make that into a 3D game, with a working camera (hell, try first person if nothing else), and Sonic could finally have a really good 3D game. No quests, no being chained to a team or partner, and no digging around to find the item to give to someone to blah blah blah. Just those four simple things. They're what made Sonic fun in the beginning, and they're what needs to be brought back.

Of course, these are all just my observations. I'm not stating anything as fact, but rather what I think is wrong, and what needs to happen... soon.

watkinzez

02-10-2007, 04:42 AM

So you do realize that that was only "half a game," right?

Yeah, I was just pointing out that I don't have a nostalgic attachment to the series, clouding my judgement of the newer games.

Sir_NutS

02-10-2007, 04:47 AM

Coop is right. Other teams have done the translation to 3d just fine(nintendo, konami in some titles, tecmo) so SEGA being(or having being) one of the most brilliant developers in the industry should get to work on whats making the franchises fail and not concentrate in shitty characters or pretty graphics(which aren't really THAT pretty). After 3 titles with lacking gameplay any company would have worked out the problems or just thrown the franchise away.

Antipode

02-10-2007, 04:57 AM

Personally I also enjoyed Sonic Advance, Sonic Rush, 3d blast and Spinball in addition to the standard 1 2 3 and Knuckles.

Other than those, I've played Sonic Adventure but it wasn't quite right. The cheese OVERFLOWED from that game, and it wasn't even good cheese. Still, it was a game I played a lot when I was a kid, and so it's got sentimental value for me. I hear that the new 3d ones have gone completely downhill since Adventure, so I haven't purchased one since. The most recent sonic game I've bought was Mega Collection, which wasn't even a sonic game in it's own right.

Those screenshots for the new Sonic got my hopes up so high. It's a damn shame it couldn't live up to its name. Maybe someday soon they'll get the hedgehog back on track.

Drack

02-10-2007, 06:49 AM

I thoroughly enjoyed Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3, S&K.

I haven't had the same great experience I had from S3&K from ANY more recent Sonic game.

Spinball and 3D Blast were gimmicky spinoffs.

I disliked Sonic Adventure, SA2, Shadow, Heroes (These ALL had a terrible 3-D system).

Some liked Rush; I didn't. Total lack of creativity in level and boss design. TERRIBLE departure for the music; only 2 or 3 of the tracks didn't annoy the hell out of me.

Sonic Advance? Not bad, but not great. It clearly shows the GBA is not capable of BLAST PROCESSING.

I'm not expecting much from the upcoming Wii Sonic. We shall see how it turns out.

I-n-j-i-n

02-10-2007, 06:52 AM

Sonic Advance 1 was slow. Sonic Advance 2 was just like the oldschool Sonic games though. Sonic Advance 3 had a strange tagteam system that sometimes worked well and sometimes didn't. I like the inventive ideas of the newer Sonic games, but they surely don't know how to pull it together. Because most of the attacks are totally useless.

Raziellink

02-10-2007, 12:53 PM

I bought a Genesis a while ago just for the sole reason of playing Sonic. I used to play it on my uncle's Genesis when i was little, but a perfectly good Genesis with Sonic 1 and 2 for $ 35 on a flea market wasen't a bad deal.

TonitoX2

02-10-2007, 04:49 PM

Of course, these are all just my observations. I'm not stating anything as fact, but rather what I think is wrong, and what needs to happen... soon.

Hey those are technical flaws that came with that generation. It's just been a bad trip for games that were once to 2D making a transition to 3D. Nintendo at least got smart by releasing that Super Mario Bros DS that was in 3D yet 2D in the sense of gameplay. Then again that's why Nintendo is who they are. Nintendo was never about the money but about the games. The Sonic games like I said.. I really doubt it will go to that simple direction again. Corporate America ... gets real greedy. I'll put it as simple as this. You work for Sega, you got a family and kids to support, your boss tells you "Do it this way without diverting from how it is now", are you actually going to try to confront your boss about what YOU as an employee feel is right for the company and risk getting your arse handed to you? That's usually the case. Let's face it, the Sonic games are making them revenue just on the name itself. I doubt they will stop. It will have to get to a point that the formula gets so sick and tiring that even the new generation hates it. When that happens! They'll catch it and say "Well hey! These Sonic games aren't selling that well! What the hell happen? We need to do something new about!" It's just seems to be a habit here in America about not doing something right until it is to late >.>. If you notice these Sonic games are coming out left and right like pancakes. Quantity over quality?

Meh I really would be happy to see a next gen Sonic game with the aspects of the old ones. What I was really hoping for in a sense was a remake of the original 1 & 2 & 3. With every aspect intact! Just with the next gen graphics, I doubt they will make them not talk.. it was bound to happen. I am pretty sure Sega is saving that as their Ace in the hole in case all hell breaks loose.

DistantJ

02-10-2007, 05:52 PM

The Wii game looks like it's going to be pretty badass, though.

Shadix

02-10-2007, 06:17 PM

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/762/762185p1.html

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/sonicthehedgehog/review.html?sid=6165288

This reminds me a bit of the x360 bomberman fiasco, only not as bad. Oh well, I guess there's still hope for the Wii version which is, as some people that played it have said, much better.

That review really is quite inaccurate. I've come to believe that the person writing that particular review merely based his review on what other reviewers had said, giving praise to things not worth praising (the voice cast... honestly. "ILL STOP U IBLIS TRIGGER". The only voices worth praising are Lacey Chabert's and Eggman's great voice acting.).

What many of these articles forget to mention is that Next had a rather good plot. (Especially for a Sonic game)

The level design is also not horrendous and simple as that article claims. For the first time, we actually get some of the level variety that the 3D Sonic games have been lacking. There ARE some level specific gimmicks, and each level's level design actually has a different flow. (Go play Sonic 2 or any Sonic game to figure this out. The difference between the designs of the zones.) Kingdom Valley, for instance, has probably the best segment in the game, with it's emphasis on multiple crossing paths to the finish, a definite throwback to the Genesis style.

In fact, if I had wrote that article, I would have to say the level design is the saving grace of the game.

Now onto the bad... The controls are definitely not too good. While, contrary to popular opinion, I believe Sonic's speed is fine, his game suffers from a really bugging homing attack. Shadow, on the contrary, I believe has the most entertaining gameplay of the bunch minus his vehicle segments (The controls on the vehicles, ESPECIALLY the motorcycle, are... not so good ;-;).
Silver's gameplay is fun, however it feels limited and too slow, mainly because his movement speed is a chore to work with. All of the secondary characters except for Blaze control horribly and have ridiculous attacks. It would be as bad if jumping, the primary attack mechanism in the 2D games, hadn't been rendered obsolete due to the inability to actually damage things with it.

The sad part is most of this could theoretically be fixed by a patch.

Toadofsky

02-10-2007, 07:52 PM

Honestly, I like the new Sonic the Hedgehog game, I have yet to buy an XBOX 360, but I think I'll buy the game. I've seen the reviews, I don't care. I've played pretty much every Sonic game that has come out, and have enjoyed most of them (3D blast being the least favorite). The controls are not in the least perfect, but they're not awful (at least in my opinion).

In response to the reviews...
I quit reading reviews a long time ago. Critics have too much bias in them to do a decent review. Most of them try to make stupid jokes (aka XPLAY) just to make the review entertaining for themselves. If the game is entertaining to me, that's all I care about. Heck, XPLAY made fun of Shenmue so much I bought Shemue II for XBOX, and I'm enjoying it thoroughly. I guess you could say I enjoy "crappy games" like PLOK!, CHUCK ROCK, SUPER ADVENTURE ISLAND, P.N. 03, Star Fox Adventures, Star Fox Assault (I could on and on).

I'm sure most of you think I'm stupid for even thinking of buying the game, but honestly, I'm at a point where I don't even enjoy most of the games that are out anymore, even though I have the Nintendo Wii, XBOX, DS, etc. I just don't find as much entertainment with games like I used to, I don't know why, but maybe it's just about time for me to put games away for good.

Stargem

02-10-2007, 08:07 PM

I personally think that SEGA should try two different things with Sonic. The first and most reliable would probably to revert to an Classic 2D Sonic style, and just try to make games based upon that premise. For the meantime, their 3D and Advance offerings are not too attractive in my opinion.

Secondly, I feel that they should try to make an Sonic RPG game, probably for the Wii or DS. I fondly remember Super Mario RPG for the SNES, and I personally think that Sonic could succeed as an RPG in an similar manner. The SatAM cartoon, the Sonic comics, and games could provide plenty of material for an RPG to be based upon, and I think that using the artistic stylings of the older Sonic games could lend an neat and rarely used look for the genre. Instead of trying to instill misplaced characterization into an platforming game or using teamwork systems, Team SEGA could focus those concepts into an RPG game where those ideas may have credible merit.

Triad Orion

02-10-2007, 08:16 PM

Azure Prower

02-10-2007, 08:56 PM

Well, I've played almost every possible Sonic game with exception of Sonic Rush and older/crappier titles such as Tails adventure and Knux Chaotix.

I have to say, the only sonic games I truly disliked was Sonic 3d blast and Sonic Heroes.

The Coop

02-10-2007, 09:06 PM

Hey those are technical flaws that came with that generation. It's just been a bad trip for games that were once to 2D making a transition to 3D. Nintendo at least got smart by releasing that Super Mario Bros DS that was in 3D yet 2D in the sense of gameplay. Then again that's why Nintendo is who they are. Nintendo was never about the money but about the games. The Sonic games like I said.. I really doubt it will go to that simple direction again. Corporate America ... gets real greedy. I'll put it as simple as this. You work for Sega, you got a family and kids to support, your boss tells you "Do it this way without diverting from how it is now", are you actually going to try to confront your boss about what YOU as an employee feel is right for the company and risk getting your arse handed to you? That's usually the case. Let's face it, the Sonic games are making them revenue just on the name itself. I doubt they will stop. It will have to get to a point that the formula gets so sick and tiring that even the new generation hates it. When that happens! They'll catch it and say "Well hey! These Sonic games aren't selling that well! What the hell happen? We need to do something new about!" It's just seems to be a habit here in America about not doing something right until it is to late >.>. If you notice these Sonic games are coming out left and right like pancakes. Quantity over quality?

Technical flaws, perhaps. But they're technical flaws that have been there since 1999. How many games and years does it take to fix it? They can pile on all the extra characters they want, but that just comes off as trying to bury the problems under "new options"... as if they're saying, "It's still broken in all these areas, BUT LOOK HOW PRETTY IT IS AND AT ALL THE THINGS YOU CAN DO AND CHARACTERS YOU HAVE TO USE NOW!".

Like what was done with other franchises, Sonic Team needs to refocus the Sonic series... hit "reset" as it were. They need to whittle off all the extraneous stuff, and focus on getting the core gameplay right, which is something I feel wasn't quite accomplished in any of the 3D games I played. It's there to a degree, but it's not nearly at the same level as the 2D games in terms of intensity, speed and design.

...

To me, Sonic is close to hitting a critical crossroads. Other companies who have handled the Sonic series seem to be able to get the formula far more right than Sonic Team at the moment. The Sonic Advance series, Sonic Rush, Sonic 3D Blast... all these games felt more like Sonic games than what Sonic Team keeps putting out (at least up to Shadow the Hedgehog, which is the last one I bought). It's getting to the point that what Sonic Team are doing their franchise, is what Core was doing to the Tomb Raider franchise. Namely, hurting it.

I honestly think unless the Wii Sonic turns out to be something spectacular, it may be time to let someone else have a go at the 3D part of the series. Or at the very least, bring in some fresh blood to help Sonic Team. Sometimes when you work on something for so long, you can't see what's potentially wrong with it until you get an outside perspective. And frankly, I'm wondering if Sonic Team can see how broken parts of the latest games are.

As I said, I enjoy the series. I felt the 2D games were a blast (except Sonic Spinball), SA1+2 were fun, "Heroes" had its moments (the whole team gameplay got old though), and "Shadow" is at least playable (it's not as bad as the reviews made it out to be, yet it needed a lot more work to be sure). But to be honest, there were some serious flaws in those games that needed to be worked out... flaws which apparently haven't been if the reviews to the 360 and PS3 Sonic games are to be believed.

JoeFu

02-10-2007, 10:39 PM

Wtf?? Coop... You Bought Shadow?

The Coop

02-10-2007, 11:42 PM

Wtf?? Coop... You Bought Shadow?

Yep. $4.99 new for my XBox. Curiosity got to me, much like what happened with Turok Evolution (also $4.99 new). I wanted to see how it was, and since renting it actually cost more than it would to just buy it...

Stargem

02-10-2007, 11:46 PM

Not to sound like a buzz kill, I highly doubt Sonic could convert into an RPG format at all. It would just further kill any sense of speed you have while playing it, unless they find some way to revolutionize the genre, and let's face it... with Sonic Team and SEGA in the states they've been, it isn't going to happen.

True, it wouldn't seem likely, but if they could allow someone else to attempt the idea with the license, it might work out. I don't think anyone thought Mario or Megaman could make the transition to an RPG-style format of gameplay initially, but they did manage it quite well. Concerning speed, I think that it would require the development team to make the terrain of each area designed around the concept, making the appropriate conversions like how it was done in Super Mario RPG. I certainly wouldn't expect it to be perfect in an initial attempt, but I think it can be done.

KWarp

02-11-2007, 12:31 AM

I generally like Sonic games, particularly 2, 3&Knuckles, 3D Blast, Adventure, Heroes, and Rush. I've backed away from Shadow, Riders, and HD more for the reason that I don't like they company's direction rather than the games themselves. Sonic Adventure hasn't aged well, so I see little hope in future 3D Sonics with the same mechanics.

SatSR has me intrigued. SEGA finally has a novel idea down that seems as simplistic as the Genesis titles. I'm purchasing this title day one without question.

Darth Lime

02-11-2007, 03:18 AM

Dexie

02-11-2007, 06:02 AM

I'm really hoping Secret Rings doesn't suck.

If it does, though, I say Sega lets Miyamoto show them show to make a Sonic game. XP

TonitoX2

02-11-2007, 06:06 AM

You know The Coop I really had to take your word for it when you meant there was no excuse for such a crappy game engine. I mean.. I was just keeping it open that you know perhaps is nostalgia that's causing all of this but I decided to rent Sonic The Hedgehog for the 360... man. Oh man. I thought Gears of Wars was glitchy, too think Super Mario 64 was also a glitchy game. This game is straight up garbage @_@. The graphics are nice / the voice acting is alright but jesus christ the game runs like shit. If I had to compare it to SA1 or SA2, those 2 did a better job than this garbage. And the loading times! I thought that reviewer was joking and was maybe overly exaggerating based on the PS3 loading times, but for the love of god about 2 minutes of loading just to show one stupid animation and then another 4 minutes of loading? How in the hell did Sega let this one slide o_O?

SlightlyOddGuy

02-11-2007, 06:06 AM

I honestly think unless the Wii Sonic turns out to be something spectacular, it may be time to let someone else have a go at the 3D part of the series. Or at the very least, bring in some fresh blood to help Sonic Team. Sometimes when you work on something for so long, you can't see what's potentially wrong with it until you get an outside perspective. And frankly, I'm wondering if Sonic Team can see how broken parts of the latest games are.

Actually, this is pretty much what's already happened. The man at the helm of SSR (Ogawa) has worked with the series before, but never in the leadership role he's had this time. Moreover, Iizuka, Naka and friends haven't touched the game. And it shows. If I'm not mistaken, even the actual staff making the game has more guys from elsewhere in Sonic Team as opposed to the usual bunch. They've said that there were effectively two different teams working on the game (one for the SP, one MP), and that's with the next gen title also being in full development at the same time. It isn't quite as drastic a move as outright licensing the series to another developer, but it's the closest thing you're going to see.

The Coop

02-11-2007, 07:14 AM

Actually, this is pretty much what's already happened. The man at the helm of SSR (Ogawa) has worked with the series before, but never in the leadership role he's had this time. Moreover, Iizuka, Naka and friends haven't touched the game. And it shows. If I'm not mistaken, even the actual staff making the game has more guys from elsewhere in Sonic Team as opposed to the usual bunch. They've said that there were effectively two different teams working on the game (one for the SP, one MP), and that's with the next gen title also being in full development at the same time. It isn't quite as drastic a move as outright licensing the series to another developer, but it's the closest thing you're going to see.

Oy. So the PS3 (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/929718.asp?q=Sonic%20the%20Hedgehog) and 360 (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/929717.asp?q=Sonic%20the%20Hedgehog) games were handled by (in essence) "the other Sonic Team members"? I guess that explains the poor reviews (even Shadow the Hedgehog (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/927124.asp?q=Shadow%20the%20Hedgehog) did better). But, should even the Wii game go bad, there is hope to be gained from the past...

- The Sonic Advance series, Sonic Battle and Sonic Rush were done by Dimps
- Sonic 1 for the Master System and Game Gear was done by Ancient (Yuzo Koshiro's company)
- Sonics 2, "Chaos" and "Triple Trouble" (Master System and Game Gear) were done by Aspect
- Sonic 3D Blast was done by Traveller's Tales.

Even if all those companies only co-developed those games, that's a lot of outside help that resulted in some very good 8/16/32bit titles when Sonic Team wasn't the one on the job. So even though it seems unnatural for someone other than Sonic Team to be making a Sonic game, if that's what it takes to make the 3D Sonic title people have been wanting (and being promised), then so be it.

Broken

02-11-2007, 07:51 AM

I-n-j-i-n

02-11-2007, 08:33 AM

I thought the music in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were really good for the most part. Even the cornball ones in Sonic the Hedgehog weren't too bad (In this worrllldddddddddd). The amusement park theme of Sonic Adventure 1 is permanently stuck in my head.

I think the reason why the recent Sonic games doesn't seem to have a direction is because Yuji Naka isn't making the games. It'd be like Miyamoto not handling a new Mario game or Aonuma not directing a Zelda game. If either of them leave their posts, their respective franchises could suffer too.

SetzerGabbiani

02-11-2007, 08:40 AM

It was decent, but the game <h4>gave me a headache.</h4>
I dunno, I just really didn't like the game.

Church. I can't finish that game cause it makes me very disoriented... I can't tell where I am going in that game. sucktopia. I think the series started blowing right around Sonic Adventure.. It was decent, but they did not give anybody but Sonic the fun objectives. Finding emerald shards made me want to ejaculate on my dreamcast and set it on fire.

OverCoat

02-11-2007, 08:49 AM

You know what Sonic needs? A full Michael Jackson soundtrack.

Fuck bad PR. Sonic 3 had some groovy tracks.

Also maybe they should kill off all the extra characters. Except Tails - we need to laugh at the horribly funny AI trying to follow us around and getting his ass kicked trying to keep up.

and change Eggman's name back to Dr. Robotnik.

and make a Sonic GBA or DS game using the oldschool sprites

and Sonic R 2

Rellik

02-11-2007, 08:52 AM

Sonic Adventure 2: Battle for Gamecube is the saddest excuse for a Sonic game ever. The voice acting is horrible, graphics are ok, gameplay is choppy at times. Sonic used to be this awesome character. His games were so fast paced and it felt good from playing Super Mario. But now, they are horrible. Please, make a better Sonic.

Whoa. What did I write? I'm to out of it to know whats going on.

Actually, in my opinion, SA2 is a fantastic game. I'm not the only one that feels that way, but I'll explain anyway: basically, it's a lot of fun - vibrant levels, decent challenge, excellent replay value.

New Sonic will never be old Sonic - if you don't torture yourself trying to pretend Sonic Adventure 2 is a classic Sonic game with impeccable and loveable gameplay, music, and mood, you'll see that there's a lot of fun to be had, and a lot of vibe to be appreciated. I don't disagree with any of your specific criticisms (even something as fundamental to a game as the gameplay is obviously quite flawed in this case), but when it comes down to the actual playing experience, it's not that hard to call SA2 a great game.

KyleJCrb

02-11-2007, 09:06 AM

So, is Jun Senoue still directing/ producing the music for these games? The Sonic Heroes OST was pretty boring if I remeber correctly, and SA1 and 2 were a mixed bag.
(I haven't played the past couple of new Sonics and don't have any inclination to do so anytime soon, so I can't comment on those.)

I just remember reading Jun Senoue's name in the credits for Soncic 3 a long time ago and thinking "hey, he made all those songs, cool."

No, Jun is not the music director for Sonic 2k6 or Secret Rings. His band Crush 40 did contribute covers of "All Hail Shadow" and "His World" for 2k6, though.

He only composed maybe one or two songs for Sonic 3 (I know he did the Act 2 Boss theme). It was his very first project for SEGA.

I think the reason why the recent Sonic games doesn't seem to have a direction is because Yuji Naka isn't making the games.

Actually, Naka is the one who originally took the Sonic series in the direction it's currently going in. Not that the games are getting any better without him, but he certainly did not help in the least and probably wouldn't be of any help now.

NManiac

02-11-2007, 01:59 PM

The whole Sonic idea is broken anyway. I mean you just keep on running, seeing only a few pixels ahead of you, and then POW, you fall in a hole with lots of pointy stuff in it. The only thing that made me love the first Sonic on Genesis was the graphics on Emerald Hills. And same thing for Sonic Adventure, with the giant whale that follows you. That's about it really, otherwise you're just flying past scenery that you suppose is superb, it's just a shame that you can't have a proper look at it. And now, even the graphics aren't anything special.

02-11-2007, 03:11 PM

Sonic died the day Dr.Robotnik was renamed to Eggman.

carra

02-11-2007, 03:26 PM

If it does, though, I say Sega lets Miyamoto show them show to make a Sonic game. XP

HIGHLY seconded.

Maybe the only one who can bring back Sonic? Would be ironic though.

Murmeli Walan

02-11-2007, 03:26 PM

Sonic died the day Dr.Robotnik was renamed to Eggman.

So you're saying Sonic died the day the first Megadrive game was released in Japan?

JoeFu

02-11-2007, 03:30 PM

Take Sonic out of the human world please... WTF WHY IS HE KISSING GIRLS?

02-11-2007, 04:58 PM

So you're saying Sonic died the day the first Megadrive game was released in Japan?

No, the day the intense japan-ism completely invaded sonic and gave it one of the shittiest storylines known to man. So what if he was Eggman in Japan? He was renamed when they tried to give Sonic a serious storyline other then the perfectly acceptable "HAY GUYZ ROBOTNIK IS BAD HE CAP DEM ANIMALS LETS SAVE DEM", but instead failed miserably. I mean look at Sonic Adventure 2, it's almost like it's ripped from one of the DBZ sagas.

BabyfaceGlasses

02-11-2007, 07:08 PM

I think there is only one thing left that can save Sonic. And thats a Mario crossover. Why not?

Smoke

02-11-2007, 08:40 PM

Actually, in my opinion, SA2 is a fantastic game. I'm not the only one that feels that way, but I'll explain anyway: basically, it's a lot of fun - vibrant levels, decent challenge, excellent replay value.

New Sonic will never be old Sonic - if you don't torture yourself trying to pretend Sonic Adventure 2 is a classic Sonic game with impeccable and loveable gameplay, music, and mood, you'll see that there's a lot of fun to be had, and a lot of vibe to be appreciated. I don't disagree with any of your specific criticisms (even something as fundamental to a game as the gameplay is obviously quite flawed in this case), but when it comes down to the actual playing experience, it's not that hard to call SA2 a great game.

I got Sonic Adventure 2 Battle along with my Gamecube at the European launch. Played the hell out of it, and enjoyed the hell out of it. For its time, it was a pretty good game with great graphics. However, going back to it now kinda hurts since the flaws stand out so much more. It just hasn't aged well.

Darth Lime

02-11-2007, 09:46 PM

Sonic died the day Dr.Robotnik was renamed to Eggman. QFE
Ten characters.

Vyse the Three Eyes

02-11-2007, 10:13 PM

I'm just doing my best to try not to get hyped up about Secret Rings.

I mean, I want it, I'm gonna get it at launch, I desire so much that it turns out well, but the Sonic Heroes hype burn left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'm forcing myself to regulate how excited I get.

The fact that it's moving away from the people who destroyed the series in the first place gives me hope, though. And man, that full Japanese trailer... I got Sonic fanboy shivers, I tells ya.

I haven't had those in years.

Unless you count stomach wretchings as shivers.

I-n-j-i-n

02-11-2007, 11:52 PM

Actually, Naka is the one who originally took the Sonic series in the direction it's currently going in. Not that the games are getting any better without him, but he certainly did not help in the least and probably wouldn't be of any help now.

I don't think the current direction is really the problem. It's the execution. I thought the cartoony style was obviously the way to go, but it was the gameplay nuances that kept the game down. If Yuji Naka stayed on board and refined his games, it could have started improving a lot by now. Then again, Sega as a whole doesn't really seem capable of making great new games anymore. Also the entire mechanic of Sonic platformers are a bit archaic by today's standards. You can only run and jump so much before it feels redundant. That's why other platformers like Ratchet and Clank has the heavily gun-oriented gameplay and Sly is based on a lot of stealth on top of the apparent platforms. Both are leagues better than any Sonic game since 2000.

SetzerGabbiani

02-12-2007, 12:12 AM

Take Sonic out of the human world please... WTF WHY IS HE KISSING GIRLS?

LMFAO QFE... yeah that whole last chapter super sonic/shadow/silver thing was total crap..nuthing but SA2 with a new paint job.

I'll believe in the sonic fanchise again when they give Knuckles a playable part in the last boss, and NOT doing another pizza boy mission.

ah, dreams..

KyleJCrb

02-12-2007, 12:18 AM

Then again, Sega as a whole doesn't really seem capable of making great new games anymore.

And again I will tell you to look at the work of AM2 and Amusement Vision. Some divisions of SEGA still knows what they're doing.

atmuh

02-12-2007, 12:20 AM

I actually forgot that I played SA2 over 100 hours. That was a pretty rockin game if it had me addicted so long. I could never A rank all the missions though....and I really tried.

I-n-j-i-n

02-12-2007, 12:48 AM

And again I will tell you to look at the work of AM2 and Amusement Vision. Some divisions of SEGA still knows what they're doing.

I can only recall Shenmue (probably discontinued forever), Virtua Fighter and the odd outsourced games to Amusement Vision. But it takes Sega years to make one good game instead of coming up with streams of great games (IMO way better and more experimental than many SNES games of its time) in its glory days.

Nintendo, to me, has fell from grace of making each games into absolute classics, but Sega did so a bit worse. It's like the only franchise that is almost faultless nowadays with the two companies is Zelda and Virtua Fighter.

JoeFu

02-12-2007, 01:19 AM

I still think Mario is awesome. While most people thought SMS was stupid because of the water-pack, I didn't mind it that much. SMS really gave us some awesome platforming with the stages where the pack was removed. I hope Galaxy will deliver, but we all know that SMG will be like way better than Sega's new attempts at Sonic.

DarkSolstice

02-12-2007, 01:51 AM

Yeah, they really shouldn't have called him Eggman. Granted that would be what his proper name is, but Robotnik is much better. At least in Sonic Adventure 1 he introduced himself as Doctor Robotnik...

I actually prefered SA1, though I liked SA2 as well, SA1 had the mini-games and stuff to mess with. By the sounds of it, StH is a complete mess-up. That's a disappointment as I was hoping that as the SA games progressed they would begin to improve the weaker elements.

I DO want them to give Knuckles back his stages. His collection stages sucked. Those were the weakest part, plus with the dodgy rap thing going on... I mean, WTF? He's not meant to be some guy from the Bronx or some rap legend, he's meant to be an Echidna.

They should just remake Sonic 1,2,3 and Knuckles. Properly.

Antipode

02-12-2007, 02:27 AM

Nintendo, to me, has fell from grace of making each games into absolute classics.

I disagree. I don't know about you, but I can tell you that if I'd played something like wind waker or mario sunshine when I was a little kid I would have been blown away. Playing them as a teenager was still a very enjoyable and memorable experience. Maybe your tastes have just changed.

Anyway, I agree with the sentiment in this thread that Sega should strip the characters and reduce them to Robotnik, Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. Once they develop a winning formula I agree that they should consider making 3D games (or perhaps just one) with the plots of Sonics 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles. Or maybe they could actually come up with a new and original plot which fits in the style and continuity. It hasn't seemed to have happened yet...

Kiyosuki

02-12-2007, 03:30 AM

In my opinion, Sonic's fall from grace...while attributable to many smaller things...is mostly because of this.

The over reliance on the Sonic Adventure engine. I really don't think SA was that bad, like a poster here said it had good promise and seeing as how it was the first true next generation Sonic game...it could go and grow in so many new directions.

The only problem...is it didn't. It hasn't really gone anywhere since then. Every major game since that time has been some sort of stretching of the SA engine. I mean...its one thing to maintain a gameplay style, like what Mario 64 did for Mario, or what Orcarina of Time did for many of the major Zelda games since then. But its the general style, elements are still played around with and the very build...the engine of the game is rarely the same. The Sonic series has been using the same damn engine for almost 3/4th of a decade now...with almost no tweaks to gameplay, interface, even graphics to an extent...nothing.

A friend of mine and I went to last year's E3(The last one of its kind I guess now.), and when we tried the 360/PS3 Sonic demo we had a big talk about this, and how its just become totally inexcusable how lazy the Sega/Sonic Team programmers have gotten with this series. Completely new system...new character...and the game still feels exactly like all the console Sonics since Adventure and in all honesty...the graphical improvement is barely substantial as well. I was actually pretty shocked that even now on a new system, they've still barely updated this thing. Still suffers from the same camera problems, the characters' motions look exactly the same, everything feels like it was just a new level in Sonic Adventure which is just inexcusable.

So really, while there are many other problems...I think the series has lost its sense of adventure, surrealism and adrenaline, and just become sort of this generic rock/techno...thing, and the focus of each game since Adventure has been really unfocused with so many characters...among other things. But essentially, Sonic's being slowly killed with inaction and lazy programming. Because of that, these games have a stigma now for being below sub-par quality games.

Some of the 2D games have been good, and I tried Secret Rings for the Wii at E3 too and we all really enjoyed it. Its the first Sonic game in years thats felt genuinly new, its Sonic's best bet at maybe surviving this gen. But generally...the SA gameplay system just has to be shot and killed. If Sonic doesn't appear with even some sort of change or new style, it may actually be the end of the character...and I thought I'd never say that.

I-n-j-i-n

02-12-2007, 03:38 AM

I disagree. I don't know about you, but I can tell you that if I'd played something like wind waker or mario sunshine when I was a little kid I would have been blown away. Playing them as a teenager was still a very enjoyable and memorable experience. Maybe your tastes have just changed.

I agree actually. It's just that in the NES and SNES days, EVERY SINGLE Nintendo game was a deemable classic. One release after another. Now, we see the constant Pokemon rehashes, the constant spinoffs and remakes on the DS and the Wii now with the few true sequels. Even with full sequels, they just don't seem to have the depth the older games did (it's impossible to compare Mario 2 to New Super Mario Bros for example. Mario 2 is so much deeper and comprehensive in every way).

Anyway, I agree with the sentiment in this thread that Sega should strip the characters and reduce them to Robotnik, Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. Once they develop a winning formula I agree that they should consider making 3D games (or perhaps just one) with the plots of Sonics 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles. Or maybe they could actually come up with a new and original plot which fits in the style and continuity. It hasn't seemed to have happened yet...

I think they should worry more about the simple stuff like the camera and the way to use the attack moves and the character quirks and make a balanced game before they get into changing the aesthetics.

PlaceboFX316

02-12-2007, 05:05 AM

As a lover of the Genesis era Sonic games, I'd like to pitch my two cents in.

What made the original Sonic games spawn legions of fans? I think it was a couple of things:
1. The best of 2D gameplay, almost perfectly melding platform challenges with a sense of speed that made the game feel modern.
2. Atmospheric fantasy worlds complete with lush backgrounds and moody music.
3. A cool protagonist and supporting cast.

So, where have we gone wrong in regards to each of these?
1. As many have documented, the 3D transition has not gone well for Sonic. I have heard many of you say there is a way to make it work. Is there, though? I'm not sure the combination of speed and platforming can successfully translate to 3D because suddenly the options are far too many. As someone said earlier, you race along and fall into a pit of spikes that come out of nowhere. I know my experience with the XBox 360 demo was frustrating in this way. I was ready to quit after 30 seconds. My conclusion is that the combo of speed and platforming is best achieved in 2D.
2. What made the Green Hill Zone and the Ice Cap Zone and countless others memorable has been lost in generic worlds. The fantasy element has been reduced and thus the series has lost some of its imagination.
3. As noted elsewhere in this thread, the cast is too large and the voice acting only goes too diminish the characters. After all, Sonic's quest always sounds much more silly when he has to verbally build a case for saving cute woodland creature by collecting gems, etc. Plus, the voice takes away the universiality of the character that Nintendo is always trying to protect with Link.

So... what to be done about it?

Tell me, who wouldn't enjoy seeing Sonic return to 2D? Don't remake old games, but go back to that formula of exotic worlds with sweet 2D sidescrolling game play. The worlds could look rediculously lush on today's systems and the gameplay could return to what made the series so enjoyable. Let Rainbow Six and Gears of War provide the 3D glitz... but take Sonic back to 2D and pimp out the levels of an obscenely long sidescroller. People would flock to it as they flock to the collected editions.

Seriously, is there anyone who wouldn't enjoy it that way?

KWarp

02-12-2007, 05:39 AM

I actually forgot that I played SA2 over 100 hours. That was a pretty rockin game if it had me addicted so long. I could never A rank all the missions though....and I really tried.
Not to mention the Gamecube version was even harder. Whaaa

The Author

02-12-2007, 04:48 PM

Think about it, a 2-D Sonic game on the Wii.

Jump and Spin.

Control with the pad.

Use that console to bring out the scenery at you, full speed ahead and what not.

RealFolkBlues

02-12-2007, 06:15 PM

Hmmm, I just had an interesting idea, and wonder what you guys think of it.

Imagine a 3-d Sonic that places the emphasis back on speed and platforming, but does it through a simplified, maybe cel-shaded graphical style with some really cool blur effects and a good predetermined camera. The self-controlled camera of the last few games has been crap, often coming from a poor angle or pulled in too close, and I think a non-controlled camera, when done correctly, can create a terrific "scene" kind of experience.

Comments/questions/flames?

PlaceboFX316

02-12-2007, 06:51 PM

PlaceboFX316

02-12-2007, 06:52 PM

Think about it, a 2-D Sonic game on the Wii.

Jump and Spin.

Control with the pad.

Use that console to bring out the scenery at you, full speed ahead and what not.

This sounds like a game I'd enjoy.

RealFolkBlues

02-12-2007, 07:05 PM

The "scene" idea I was referring to is part of why people call certain games cinematic. Essentially, when the view of the action forces your eye to follow a certain path, the game's creator leaves you with a particular impression of that scene's mood, theme, etc. For instance, if the protagonist is walking towards the main villain's fortress, and the camera comes from directly behind his feet, pointed sharply upwards to encompass the whole castle, we get a sense of awe at how big the coming challenge is, how foreboding and dark and so on. This kind of thing is done to notable effect in the Devil May Cry and Onimusha games. It was actually used in Sonic before, way back in Sonic Adventure 1, when Sonic is running from that whale and the camera is fixed in front of him.

PlaceboFX316

02-13-2007, 03:10 AM

Interesting... so you're suggesting kind of a "rail camera" approach? I think I like the idea. Sonic definitely needs something special from the camera if its going to succeed in 3D.

BigBoss

02-13-2007, 03:14 AM

Sonic needs to be a sidescroller. Simple as that.

Triad Orion

02-13-2007, 04:47 PM

I'm afraid it's not that simple, BigBoss. Let's face it, Sonic isn't always going to be in 2-D because there's substantial demand for him to be in 3-D. While we love the 2-D games to death, not all of the market share does. And while I think seeing a new gen 2-D Sonic would be awesome, I doubt it'll happen.

What Sonic Team and SEGA really need to work on is their 3-D games, and I think RealFolkBlues might be onto something with that cinemeatic view idea. Sounds like an interesting concept. Though I would add that with a camera like that, it takes a great deal of caution to make it work without it being jerky for the player while they're running along had super high speeds.

SlightlyOddGuy

02-13-2007, 05:12 PM

SSR is pretty much that kind of game already. You get all of the standard high speeds of a Sonic title, but thanks to the quasi-on rails gameplay, the camera and level design can focus more on making it look impressive without throwing the player into a wall or bottomless pit.

Triad Orion

02-13-2007, 07:00 PM

In theory, yes it is. But I think RealFolkBlues had something a little grander in mind when it came to seeing the sights of the game. Now, not actually having played Secret Rings yet, I can't tell just how cinematic the game is going to be, but it could very well be the realiziation of RFB's theory. We'll have to see when it comes out in about a week or so.

RealFolkBlues

02-13-2007, 07:11 PM

Triad's pretty much got the idea, though I was actually thinking somewhat of SSR and the racing sequences in previous games. Personally, I'm looking forward to Secret Rings.

megadave

02-13-2007, 09:27 PM

I gave the new Sonic The Hedgehog a try, and damn - it really really sucks the big one. I'll be giving The Secret Rings a try, though.

I still want to punch myself in the face for buying Sonic Heroes.

Murmeli Walan

02-14-2007, 01:01 AM

I still want to punch myself in the face for buying Sonic Heroes.

Let's strike a deal: I'll punch you in the face for buying Sonic Heroes, and you punch me in the face for buying Shadow the Hedgehog.

JoeFu

02-15-2007, 04:02 AM

Does it make me a bad person because I am actually excited for SatSR? The game just looks fun.

Glenn565

02-15-2007, 07:30 PM

Does it make me a bad person because I am actually excited for SatSR? The game just looks fun.

No it doesn't. Even if the game sucks, it will still be ten times better then the new Sonic the Hedgehog game.

KWarp

02-16-2007, 07:03 AM

No it doesn't. Even if the game sucks, it will still be ten times better then the new Sonic the Hedgehog game.
QFE

No one needs to tell me if SSR is a good title. I've known since E3 it will be a title I will greatly enjoy.

Faustt

02-16-2007, 08:19 AM

I've been a huge fan of sonic games. I own carts of Sonic 1, 2 3, S&K and sonic spin ball (I also bought a Sega CD solely for Sonic CD). I also have Mega collection and SA 1&2 for the Gamecube.

all in all I've liked most sonic games. however I just can not get into 3D blast or the Advanced series. I *loved* SA when it first came out. It looked great at the time and I really like the sort of RPG aspect of it. granted, it was VERY weak, but it was somewhat cool to see it go in a different direction.

what I didn't like about it was the fact you had to play a total of 5(?) characters to totally finish the game. it's not so much that I didn't like the idea of different characters, it's that some of them were just AWFUL. there should be absolutely zero fishing in a sonic game, period. I also wasn't too thrilled with Amy's stages either. giant hammer? wha? oh, and I swear to god, that pumpkin hill zone for knuckles has the worst stage music ever.... why does he knuckles have hip hop music associated with him now? playing it again after 5 years, the game really shows its age.

SA2 is where things just went totally wrong for me. 2 story lines that end up the same? making 2 very gimmicky characters just to balanced out the "good" and "evil" teams? being FORCED to play through strange robot stages along with treasure hunting to progress the story? no, not good. plus the already awful voice acting somehow found a way to get worse. I know sonic has a "tude" but come on... and the camera, oy the camera!

I tried Heroes for all of 10 minutes before turning it off and saying "No. Never again....". The Shadow the Hedgehog game seemed blasphemous to me and I haven't touched it. the new sonic game looked great at first, but then more and more bad reviews started to hit the net. I really have no idea why they stuck him in the real work in the SA series. though it was "reality", it was still sort of detached, he didn't really interact with any humans that much. now I guess theres this really lame kiss, thats just bizarre. I mean... hes a giant talking hedgehog... kissing a teenage girl....

I have low expatiations for the Wii title (Just got one last week though. yay me!) but I'll give it a rental when it comes out. The next gen titles have just been getting worse and worse, so my hopes for a good new sonic game are pretty dismal.

/rant off

Red Shadow

02-16-2007, 02:55 PM

what was wrong with the sonic advance games?

i liked the first two

Triad Orion

02-16-2007, 03:09 PM

Sonic Advance is usually deemed too slow for a Sonic game. Admittedly, I'd agree with the statement. Your character's run speed was a little on the pokey side for how fast you were supposed to be able to go. Moreover, another problem with the Sonic Advance series is really that you don't have enough view in front of you to see what's coming ahead, so it's quite easy to run into badniks that are just off of the screen.

This problem got aggravated in Sonic Advance 2 when your running speed picked up to unseen levels in a 2-D Sonic game. Now you had maybe a quarter of a second to react to incoming enemies if you're going at full tilt, and maybe half a second to hit the jump button to avoid a potential death by falling in a bottomless pit. Which happened *a lot* in Sonic Advance 2. There were way, way too many pits in that game.

And what's more, you basically could just hold down right on the control pad and hit jump a few times to clear the level for the first couple of zones. While to some degree you could do that in other Sonic games, usually by the second Zone you'd have to slow down to get through some dangerous areas, such as the crushers in Marble Zone, or the staircases and traps in Chemical Plant Zone.

Now, it must be said, for all negative I've said about these two games, they're still pretty fun and certainly much better than their counterparts in the 3-D realm.

The Phalanx

02-17-2007, 01:32 AM

oh, and I swear to god, that pumpkin hill zone for knuckles has the worst stage music ever

YOU TAKE THAT BACK.

Hum4n After All

02-17-2007, 03:46 AM

change Eggman's name back to Dr. Robotnik.

Yeah. This Eggman shit has got to go. We need Dr. Robotnik. And perhaps those 2 robot henchmen he had. Can't quite remember what they were. But I do remember one had a drill nose and drills on his arms. As for the other characters hmmmm..?
Shadow should get lost finding himself and Silver should back to planet fuck yourself. And uh I think that's it.
XD

SoloGamer

02-17-2007, 03:49 AM

And perhaps those 2 robot henchmen he had. Can't quite remember what they were. But I do remember one had a drill nose and drills on his arms. As for the other characters hmmmm..?

Scratch and Grounder

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/654/250pxcaosth2tj7.jpg

Also, don't forget about Coconuts

Hum4n After All

02-17-2007, 03:56 AM

Scratch and Grounder

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/654/250pxcaosth2tj7.jpg

Also, don't forget about Coconuts

Haha.
Yeah that was them. Those two goofs. Ahhh I miss that show.

Faustt

02-17-2007, 06:43 AM

YOU TAKE THAT BACK.

my bad, that was from SA2 upon looking up lyrics.

granted I'm not the biggest fan of hip hop. but come on...

You know me, the fighting freak Knuckles
And we're at Pumpkin Hill
You ready?

I ain't gon lef it get ta me
I'm just gonne creep
Down in Pumpkin Hill
I gotsta fine my lost piece
I know dat it's here
I'ka sense it in my feet
Da great emeraldz power allows me ta feel
I can't see a thing, but it's around somewhere
I'm gonna hold my head
'Couze I have no fear....

maybe it's not the worst EVER, but damn, it's pretty bad.

who ever wrote those out really got into the feel of that song. lol http://www.sonicsdomain.com/lyrics.htm if anyone wants some sonic lyrics.

Azure Prower

02-17-2007, 03:46 PM

Also maybe they should kill off all the extra characters. Except Tails - we need to laugh at the horribly funny AI trying to follow us around and getting his ass kicked trying to keep up.

I liked one of your remixes here, but as a hard-core Tails fan, you lost all respect from me :(

He only composed maybe one or two songs for Sonic 3 (I know he did the Act 2 Boss theme). It was his very first project for SEGA.

Really? I did not know that. That is my all time favourite track from Sonic. I really enjoyed his latest tracks, but god damn, i didn't know how much he rocked!

Sonic died the day Dr.Robotnik was renamed to Eggman.

I always thought it was stupid when he started calling himself 'Dr. Eggman.'

It's like this: Sonic says, 'you're a shit face'
Dr. Robotnik replies, 'I am Dr. shit face. Take me seriously!'

Turraken

02-18-2007, 09:55 AM

I agree with most of the sentiment in this thread. Sonic really needs to get his act together, and it should be done thusly:

1. Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Robotnik. No other characters, and no humans pottering around. These are the Sonic games, not Sonic X

2. I really like the idea of an on-rails camera. Cinematic and useful

3. 2D side-scroller FTW!

KWarp

02-18-2007, 10:04 AM

This thread gravitates towards Sonic and the Secret Rings.

Triad Orion

02-18-2007, 04:36 PM

This thread gravitates towards Sonic and the Secret Rings.

Because there's a general consensus that it's probably the only game that will be able to pull Sonic out of his current funk, and if that doesn't work, he's further in the hole.

Azure Prower

02-19-2007, 12:36 PM

Because there's a general consensus that it's probably the only game that will be able to pull Sonic out of his current funk, and if that doesn't work, he's further in the hole.
Don't get your hopes up. I'm forwarding what I posted on a sonic fansite's forums:

"There'll be eight stages with 100 missions,"

Sounds fun....

"We split up the team, and we started development from last January, so we only had one year to complete this game, with the usual time for a Sonic game being two years."

Prepare for some major disappointments.

Quoted from the Q & A on game spot.

Triad Orion

02-19-2007, 03:17 PM

Already prepared. I've had a bad feeling about new Sonic games since Shadow the Hedgehog was released. Ugh.

Stargem

02-19-2007, 04:14 PM

I don't know about that. It seems like Secret Rings is taking Sonic in a way better direction than Shadow's misguided efforts. This game is basically set in an Arabian-style story, where each of the Sonic cast are acting in the roles of notable characters, like Ali Baba or Sinbad.

The game apparantly is supposed to have about 100 missions, most of them about obtaining powerups that can have a variety of effects, like Timestop, Firebreath, and so on. It doesn't seem bad to me, and watching the better gameplay videos on YouTube, the game looks speedy enough and nice.

Smoke

02-19-2007, 06:18 PM

Don't get your hopes up. I'm forwarding what I posted on a sonic fansite's forums:

"There'll be eight stages with 100 missions,"

Sounds fun....

If the stages are large and varied enough, with missions taking place in different sections of each stage(Or different paths through stages, with overlap on some points), there's not much to worry about.

"We split up the team, and we started development from last January, so we only had one year to complete this game, with the usual time for a Sonic game being two years."

Prepare for some major disappointments.

Quoted from the Q & A on game spot.

So, time spent on creating a game determines if it's good or bad? Duke Nukem Forever will be fucking awesome then.

RealFolkBlues

02-19-2007, 06:27 PM

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever."

A bit of an oversimplification, but generally games that get rushed out to meet a deadline pay the toll. ET, anyone?

Smoke

02-19-2007, 06:40 PM

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever."

A bit of an oversimplification, but generally games that get rushed out to meet a deadline pay the toll. ET, anyone?

Yet there's nothing about rushing to meet a deadline mentioned, just that they had less time(And compensated for it). In fact, here's the full quote:

Ogawa-San: Yes, usually for Sonic titles we have two years to develop, but this time we only had one year. Since we had two different game modes – Adventure and Party – we had separate teams working on each mode and the number of team members we had were three times the usual number. The size of the game means it is essentially two games in one, so it was a very big project. Directing the teams as a developer and as a director was very challenging, but I enjoyed it very much.

http://spong.com/feature/10109514?cb=478

Stargem

02-19-2007, 06:58 PM

Sometimes it is good to have a deadline, it can prevent stagnation.

Vyse the Three Eyes

02-20-2007, 10:15 AM

Just as a heads up, this isn't fully confirmed, but I'm near positive each of the 8 stages has two acts.

Plus, there's supposedly gonna be at least a couple unlockable ones. I'll spare the details on one though, as I suppose that could be spoilers.

Also, you don't need to complete all 100 missions to beat the game, it's called there being extra so people don't complain about only having 8/16 goals.

The Coop

02-21-2007, 03:11 AM

Mr.Roboto

02-21-2007, 03:21 AM

The first reviews are in for Sonic and the Secret Rings...

http://wii.ign.com/articles/766/766214p2.html

http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/sonicrevolution/review.html?sid=6166173&tag=recent_updates;title;0

It seems to have done well in general.1UP (http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3157332) gave it a 7.5 as well.

Perhaps i'll rent it.

KWarp

02-21-2007, 07:08 AM

I don't think I trust IGN's review scores for Sonic games. Matt essentially gave the game a 6.9 because the experience isn't evolved and refined. Good review, bad review score.

7.5 range seems fair.

Bahamut

02-21-2007, 07:57 AM

In general this Sonic seems to have good reviews. Too bad I just missed buying it for $40 shipped from outpost.com :( .

Triad Orion

02-21-2007, 03:20 PM

The reviews have thus far all gravitated around a 7 to a 7.5. All things considered, that's quite an improvement over the past few Sonic games. (Which is kind of sad.) But... it's a start. I'll look into renting the game this weekend.

Kureejii Lea

02-21-2007, 05:00 PM

Just a few reviews I've seen around (yeah, I know, some of the sources...).

Game On: 92/100
Official Nintendo Magazine (Europe): 81%
Family Friendly Gaming: 90/100
Gaming Age: B+ (88%)
Electronic Playground 4/5 (80%)
1Up: 7.5
IGN: 6.9
GameSpot: 7.6
GameBrink: 81/100

Apparently a lot of the reaction to the music is similar to that of Sonic R and Sonic Rush in terms of love-it-or-hate-it. I was hoping for more Arabian-themed stuff, personally...

RealFolkBlues

02-21-2007, 06:57 PM

Hurray, Secret Rings doesn't suck!

Interesting factoid; the review sites are averaging a 7.6 rating, but the user rating is a considerably higher 9.0. Hrmm.

source; http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/932811.asp

Sir_NutS

02-21-2007, 09:46 PM

This is the score I thought it would get, around 7~7.5, and I think that what Matt said in his review at ign was right, maybe this is a better game than adventure or adv 2, it's getting a lower score everywhere because people were dazzled by the (by the time) awesome 3d graphics that the dreamcast showed.

He also Called it the best 3d sonic game ever created, but I'm gonna have to try that myself, I'm still a sonic adv. 1 fan.

KWarp

02-22-2007, 03:21 AM

I see why Matt chose that review score despite the rest of his review suggesting something higher. He wanted to make a point to the Sonic team to get rid of the programming glitches that still plague Sonic games. I can respect that.

Posted this in the Wii thread but hey whatever:
Snagged the last copy of Sonic Wii at my Toys R Us. I've played for about an hour now. The game looks really great, but the menu music is kinda bad. The first set of missions are tutorials that end in around 10 seconds, so the music recurs a lot more than I would like. English voice acting is awful. I swapped to Japanese right away. Much more pleasant. Controls don't feel spot on, but that's part of the learning curve I think. I felt the same way about Excite Truck at first but now I can steer through anything. Speaking of which, Sonic feels a lot like Excite Truck with the sensitivity dulled down a bit.

Sonic's jumping is handled differently this time around, where the height of the jump depends on how long you hold down the jump button. Not what I'm used to, but it works within the game design. Shaking the remote to attack feels REALLY good, but I need to work on the timing a bit. The level-up system isn't taught seemlessly, but it's pretty easy to figure out, and you'll want to figure it out fast. Sonic's pretty sluggish at the beginning. Overall, if you liked the better of the Sonic Adventure titles, you'll probably like this game a fricken lot.

linkspast

02-22-2007, 03:30 AM

So could this be sonics big 180?

Bahamut

02-22-2007, 03:48 AM

Two different teams worked on Sonic for 360 & PS3 and the Wii Sonic - I think I remember hearing that the one that worked on the 360/PS3 one kinda got stuck with it, so they couldn't do much with it.

atmuh

02-22-2007, 03:49 AM

so i loved sonic adventure 1 a heck of a lot so should i buy this?

Subz1987

02-22-2007, 05:19 AM

Two different teams worked on Sonic for 360 & PS3 and the Wii Sonic - I think I remember hearing that the one that worked on the 360/PS3 one kinda got stuck with it, so they couldn't do much with it.

Do you think Next Gen would have been better if the teams weren't split? What if Sonic Team decided to stay together and work on Next Gen first before going onto Wild Fire (I know that isn't the right name, but I really liked the title "Sonic Wild Fire")? Any chance both games might have been better?

KyleJCrb

02-22-2007, 05:25 AM

Sonic Team didn't really split. Sonic Team worked on the PS3/XBox game while an entirely different developer within SEGA worked on Secret Rings.

DukeNukem007

02-22-2007, 07:21 AM

So, time spent on creating a game determines if it's good or bad? Duke Nukem Forever will be fucking awesome then.

omg!!!11!! so THAT''Z y itz kall3d d0ok no0kum 4eva!!11!!!

Seriously, they finally released a tiny screenshot a few weeks ago, and they've continued to feed the people on forums.3drealms.com the usual "we're making good progress, we have several gigs of data, we're polishing the finishing touches, we like pigcops, strippers and pigcop strippers,"

When it's done, baby. When it's done.

Vyse the Three Eyes

02-22-2007, 09:41 AM

So, figured I'd drop in and post my impressions.

I got my game today (and have been shamelessly wearing the pre-order bonus wristband this whole time), and logged a good three-four hours into it.

Just to get something out of the way for anyone who rented it or bought it and feel distressed at the get go, just hold on a few.

I feel the tutorial goes on just a bit too long (Really, they could've just as well made it one long mission for the basics...), and the first level is nothing special. When you start off, the controls feel almost clunky as well. That's not a design flaw however. Oddly enough, it's a design choice... Anyway, you quickly get skills to fix that. Slap on a couple movement skills to smooth out the controls and improve the top speed and accelleration. It's a mild annoyance that they did it this way, but eh.

Once you smoothen out the controls and get used to them, it's smooth as butter. What starts off as an awkward way to homing-attack becomes second nature, and you'll easily nab long strings of rings.

Around the second level, you start to feel that twinge. There's a lot of speed, and a lot of stuff to dodge. The platforming elements work surprisingly well. I'm up to level 4, and both 3 and 4 have really impressed me by the sheer rush I feel when playing them.

Also, frankly, I think the music is hatable, but it's not as bad as the reviews make it out to be. If you like the adventure tunes in general, you'll at least enjoy it. If you don't, you'll hate it, simple enough. I get a sort of guilty pleasure at how I find 3's cheesily win.

The story is bunk, no one should be surprised. At least it doesn't take itself seriously. Skip the scenes and save yourself a headache.

The thing that I find most striking however is that it feels so... So... Polished. It leaves me wondering if I'm playing an entirely different series. Oh sure, there's still the off hand cheap hit, but they're really rare. I've run into maybe one glitch in all the missions I've played (Can't remember what it was, just that it annoyed me and didn't happen again), and of course, the camera never impedes with the gameplay.

The levels have plenty of gimmicks as well as speed, but they don't get in the way, and the fact that you always have a hand in them just makes the game feel better. Even when you're going at high speeds, you're still in control, unlike in almost every instance of real speed in the past games.

Long story short, you might not be satisfied I suppose, but I sure am. And I'm a Sonic Fan who gave up after the mess that was heroes, and only got more disgusted with the following two 'entries'.

It may not be a return to 'classic' Sonic standards, but I think I prefer that it goes, and succeeds, for new. And I mean, it feels like a genuinely good game. Not by Sonic standards, but by normal game standards.

Now I just hope it gets the sales to justify Sega looking into this method of play, because I could easily see a sequal being more 'Fight Robotnik', and I could see both Tails and Knuckles fitting in with good gameplay variations (Tails getting a lot more in-air happenings, Knuckles, being mostly grounded and moving just a tad slowly, but tearing through everything in his path).

Anyway, I need to stop here. I've got an old friend to visit with...

Smoke

02-22-2007, 12:38 PM

omg!!!11!! so THAT''Z y itz kall3d d0ok no0kum 4eva!!11!!!

Seriously, they finally released a tiny screenshot a few weeks ago, and they've continued to feed the people on forums.3drealms.com the usual "we're making good progress, we have several gigs of data, we're polishing the finishing touches, we like pigcops, strippers and pigcop strippers,"

When it's done, baby. When it's done.

I think you kinda misread my comment there. I've seen a lot of messages along the lines of "Games should take longer to develop so they'll be better", while there's plenty of proof that this is not always the case(And there are also games that took a short time to develop but are pretty great) That's what I was going for.

Faustt

02-22-2007, 10:39 PM

well I went to best buy today and noticed the secret rings was released. I somehow justified buying it and here we are.

I've only made it to the 2nd world, so I can't say much about it. I think Vyse is right. The first world is pretty much bleh. The 2nd one it feels like everything is out to kill you and you really have to be on your toes to stay alive. So it may pick up a bit after I level up some and get some more skills.

So far I have mixed feelings about it. The music is over the top cheesy, the story, dialog, and cut scenes are... not good. (the cut scenes are a personal taste thing though. I would have preferred they did prerendered CG, or in game engine ones ala SA1/2, but they are sticking with the, "inside a book" thing so I can understand it.) The sense of speed is back though, but it's just a bit too "on rails" for me so far. We'll see how it sits after a few days.

Trenthian

02-22-2007, 11:54 PM

I think Sega should top making sonic games, and focus on putting money into high quality arranged albums of old sonic games.

The music is the only thing i ever really loved about any sonic game... although I didnt really like any sonic music after sonic adventure.

DukeNukem007

02-23-2007, 03:49 AM

I think you kinda misread my comment there. I've seen a lot of messages along the lines of "Games should take longer to develop so they'll be better", while there's plenty of proof that this is not always the case(And there are also games that took a short time to develop but are pretty great) That's what I was going for.

Yeah, I know where you were going. I wasn't meaning to come across as a defensive Duke Nukem fan with the 1337-speak or anything, mostly just making fun of jokes about Duke Nukem Forever's development time and the development time itself.

And yes, Daikatana comes to mind with long-development games that end up being teh suck.

JoeFu

02-25-2007, 08:06 AM

SATSR IS FUN!

I Like It.

atmuh

02-25-2007, 08:32 AM

SATSR IS FUN!

I Like It.

Drack said he beat it in two days.

No way I'm buying that, oh and the multiplayer is absolute garbage.

also for no apparent reason I have the following Sonic Adventure 2 song stuck in my head:
Rolling around at the speed of sound
got places to go gotta FOLLOW my RAINBOW

someone keep it going

KWarp

02-25-2007, 09:05 AM

also for no apparent reason I have the following Sonic Adventure 2 song stuck in my head:
Rolling around at the speed of sound
got places to go gotta FOLLOW my RAINBOW

someone keep it going
can't stick around gotta keep moving on
guess what lies ahead only ONE WAY TO FIND OUT

must keep on moving ahead
no time for guesses follow my fdhweui instead
just jdfhwe on what you can be
ewfjhwefwehwjlwdhwl

follow me
dwjf in me
trust me and we can ESCAPE FROM THE CITY
I'll MAKE IT THROUGH ME AND YOU
FOLLOW ME

atmuh

02-25-2007, 09:15 AM

can't stick around gotta keep moving on
guess what lies ahead only ONE WAY TO FIND OUT

must keep on moving ahead
no time for guessing follow my my pain(?) instead
trusting in what you can't see
take my lead I'll set you free

follow me
set me free
trust me and we will ESCAPE FROM THE CITY
I'll MAKE IT THROUGH ME AND YOU
FOLLOW ME
come on you can do better than that

danger is lurking around every turn
trust your feelings got to LIVE AND LEARN
I know with some luck that I'll make it through
got no more options only ONE THING TO DO

I don't care what lies ahead
no time for guessing follow my my pain(?) instead
follow that street no matter what that may be(?)
take my lead I'll set you free

Kureejii Lea

02-25-2007, 06:16 PM

come on you can do better than that

danger is lurking around every turn
trust your feelings got to LIVE AND LEARN
I know with some luck that I'll make it through
got no more options only ONE THING TO DO

I don't care what lies ahead
no time for guessing follow my my pain(?) instead
follow that street no matter what that may be(?)
take my lead I'll set you free

Follow my pain? C'mon, use your head. It's plan.
It's also "find that next stage", not "follow that street"
It's also "other", not "more"... why am I even bothering? Hell, why are you? If you're gonna do it at least do it right.

atmuh

02-25-2007, 08:46 PM

Follow my pain? C'mon, use your head. It's plan.
It's also "find that next stage", not "follow that street"
It's also "other", not "more"... why am I even bothering? Hell, why are you? If you're gonna do it at least do it right.

ok I just got owned...well I was doing it from memory anyways.

LIVE AND LEEEEEARN
hanging on the edge of tomorrow!

Toadofsky

02-25-2007, 09:51 PM

Just rented Sonic for Wii, honestly, it's not a bad game, but I'd prefer controlling Sonic like the past 3d games, but then again, this is Sega's first Wii game so far, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Bahamut

02-25-2007, 10:04 PM

Bobwillis

02-26-2007, 02:44 AM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vqsFTW-yOlc

Spoilers: "You might know everything I'm going to do, but that's not going to help you since I know everything you're going to do. Strange, isn't it?"

My new favorite line.

KyleJCrb

02-26-2007, 02:57 AM

I actually own that OVA. Sonic must have a thing for human females in white dresses.

wormguy

02-26-2007, 05:24 AM

You know, that might have been halfway decent if the voice acting wasn't so hilariously bad.

Kureejii Lea

02-26-2007, 05:39 AM

I actually own that OVA. Sonic must have a thing for human females in white dresses.

Or Sera and Elise have a thing for three-foot-tall blue insectivors.

SetzerGabbiani

02-26-2007, 07:34 AM

Or Sera and Elise have a thing for three-foot-tall blue insectivors.

Uhh, Sonic beastiality ftw?..

Arek the Absolute

02-26-2007, 07:37 AM

I actually own that OVA. Sonic must have a thing for human females in white dresses.

That thing waws quite rofl.

bouncerboy15

02-26-2007, 08:50 AM

KWarp

02-26-2007, 08:52 AM

atmuh

02-26-2007, 08:52 AM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=45wlgpxdg7k
wow I miss that

Murmeli Walan

02-27-2007, 02:03 AM

"This stupid thing looks like Sonic, but it's bad!!!"

I own this OVA, too. My girlfriend insisted we watch it in English as opposed to Japanese.

Broken

02-27-2007, 02:13 AM

come on you can do better than that

danger is lurking around every turn
trust your feelings got to LIVE AND LEARN
I know with some luck that I'll make it through
got no more options only ONE THING TO DO

I don't care what lies ahead
no time for guessing follow my my pain(?) instead
follow that street no matter what that may be(?)
take my lead I'll set you free

I'm glad I'm not the only person that remembers how to sing those songs.

Let's take a dive...in aquatic mine.
Once was a coal pit, but now it's a water ride!!! woooweee

Jabberbox

02-27-2007, 02:59 AM

There hasn't been a good Sonic game since what? S&K? Yeah. Thats about the last one. Kill him off.

I'm on it...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w104/Exarian_2007/sonicdies-1.gif

OOGA-CHAKA!

JoeFu

02-27-2007, 04:29 AM

Gosh, the videos for Sonic 2K6 are so rofltastic.

Drack

02-27-2007, 05:45 AM

The true final boss for Secret Rings is pretty damn hard.

Leon K.

02-27-2007, 05:24 PM

I know this has probably been said, but Sonic Rush was REALLY good. I would buy a console version of it. Seriously, who needs a RPG plot in a Sonic game?

Who remembers how epic the plot of S3K was?!? They didn't even SAY anything for goods sake!

Even with them not saying anything, the game was filled with betrayal, retribution, gigantic robots, epic encounters, enemies becoming friends, a great evil that threatened the planet.

THEY DIDN'T SAY ONE THING!

Dexie

02-27-2007, 05:44 PM

I'm glad I'm not the only person that remembers how to sing those songs.

Let's take a dive...in aquatic mine.
Once was a coal pit, but now it's a water ride!!! woooweee

You realize what must be done now, right?

*ahem!*

Oh, it's a windy and sunny day,
And I can hear the faint sound of the distant waves!
The past weeks have been going by so fast,
It's all the same, the bright sky and shining sun!
I have a feeling it's gonna be a FUN DAA~AAY!!

Cecilff2

02-27-2007, 06:10 PM

Metal Anakin Skywalker at 7:28?

Toadofsky

03-01-2007, 07:01 PM

AarowSwift

03-01-2007, 07:20 PM

I know I'm going to be the odd man out here, but I hated Sonic and the Secret Rings, there I said it. I tried to adjust to the controls, I tried to move to a better spot while playing it, (my TV sets about less than 3 feet off the ground and the Sensor bar sits atop the TV. Sadly, I just didn't enjoy this new Sonic game. But I enjoyed what I did play, but I hope that Sega is able to get the controls down pat for the Wii when they do another Sonic game.

Was it Sonic's maneuverability that was killing it for you? Sonic starts the game moving like a semi truck with 3 flats, but by the end of the game (with the right skills turned on) he moves like a precision sports car. Honestly, that's how he should have started out but once he's properly upgraded, the tilt controls were spot on.

Edit: Also, Secret Rings makes no use of the sensor bar. Only games that use the pointer/position function need the sensor bar. Actually, the sensor bar doesn't sense anything it just emits IR that the remote uses to calculate it's relative position in space. But again, Secret Rings makes no use of this function.