Is This A Good MIDI Controller?

[Legion Kreinak]

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/7db4/

I was wondering if this controller is any good. I'm guessing it's not, due to the price.

[OverCoat]

All you need to know:
http://soundtempest.net/soc/imgswf/Wok%20'n'%20Woll.swf (http://soundtempest.net/soc/imgswf/Wok%20%27n%27%20Woll.swf)

[Legion Kreinak]

All you need to know:
http://soundtempest.net/soc/imgswf/Wok%20'n'%20Woll.swf (http://soundtempest.net/soc/imgswf/Wok%20%27n%27%20Woll.swf)

So that's a yes, it's good? Just seems so cheap. I'm surprised it's only $45. Does it work like any other MIDI controller, basically? It looks like it's working as a keyboard there, not a MIDI controller. I don't see him hooked to a PC or anything.

I know I was looking at the Keystation 88 Pro awhile back when I joined here, but that's $400 or so.

The original reason for that was because I wanted all 88 to be able to hit all octaves at once. Now I'm starting to think you rarely need to scale all the way up and down octaves like that so quickly. Am I correct in thinking that?

Sorry for the million questions, I just want to get this all right.

[OverCoat]

Actually, if you're looking around the $45 range, there are some older keyboards [like, early '90s] which have at least 61 keys, pitch/mod wheels and velocity sensitivity.

What I really want myself is a smaller keyboard plus octave switcher key. I have a 61 key Kawai keyboard as my controller right now and I always keep wishing it went lower than C3

If you're looking for 88 keys though, why are you looking at the Prodikeys? Look for full keyboards. Or are you really sure what you need? You do need a midi controller, but there are a lot of different types. What are you looking for in one?

[zircon]

If you want a *good* MIDI controller, get a dedicated one. Edirol, M-Audio, and Novation are good brands.

[Legion Kreinak]

If you want a *good* MIDI controller, get a dedicated one. Edirol, M-Audio, and Novation are good brands.

What do you mean by "dedicated"?

I'm not necessarily looking to get the Prodikeys. My friend knows I was looking into controllers, saw it, and figured he'd show me. It seemed cool, and cheap, so I asked around here.

If it's common for people to switch to the highest and lowest octaves, then I'll probably want that. As I said, originally I was looking at this: http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOKEYSTAT88

If I got that (the Keystation 88 Pro), would I be missing out on anything for not getting a more expensive board? I mean, that one has full key, tons of knobs and sliders, is velocity sensitive, and a bunch of other features. What do those $1,000+ keyboards have that this one does not?

[The Pezman]

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=277

This discussion is over.

[zircon]

What do you mean by "dedicated"?

I'm not necessarily looking to get the Prodikeys. My friend knows I was looking into controllers, saw it, and figured he'd show me. It seemed cool, and cheap, so I asked around here.

Fair enough, I just meant generally speaking if you want a MIDI controller... to get a "real" one. I don't consider the Prodikeys to be a real controller. :)

If it's common for people to switch to the highest and lowest octaves, then I'll probably want that. As I said, originally I was looking at this: http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOKEYSTAT88

If I got that (the Keystation 88 Pro), would I be missing out on anything for not getting a more expensive board? I mean, that one has full key, tons of knobs and sliders, is velocity sensitive, and a bunch of other features. What do those $1,000+ keyboards have that this one does not?

A few things. First of all, even full range, weighted MIDI controllers sit in the $400-$600 range. I don't think I've seen any for $1,000. The stuff in that range includes *synthesizers* and workstations, not MIDI controllers which are solely dedicated to sending MIDI data. A synthesizer or workstation has a lot more going on internally. That said, generally speaking, the more you pay, the better quality builds you will find - more accurate simulation of the feel of a real piano for example.

Personally I don't think 88 keys is worth it. I thought it would be useful when I got my Keystation Pro 88, but I was wrong. I rarely use the full 88. At most, 76. I could have probably done fine with 61, and a lot less knobs + sliders.

[Legion Kreinak]

Fair enough, I just meant generally speaking if you want a MIDI controller... to get a "real" one. I don't consider the Prodikeys to be a real controller. :)



A few things. First of all, even full range, weighted MIDI controllers sit in the $400-$600 range. I don't think I've seen any for $1,000. The stuff in that range includes *synthesizers* and workstations, not MIDI controllers which are solely dedicated to sending MIDI data. A synthesizer or workstation has a lot more going on internally. That said, generally speaking, the more you pay, the better quality builds you will find - more accurate simulation of the feel of a real piano for example.

Personally I don't think 88 keys is worth it. I thought it would be useful when I got my Keystation Pro 88, but I was wrong. I rarely use the full 88. At most, 76. I could have probably done fine with 61, and a lot less knobs + sliders.

Yeah, see, I'm afraid I'll need to use 88 keys, but I don't know much about this, which is why I'm asking. What would you recommend that's a quality buy, with 61 keys, then? I mean, provided it's cheaper than the Keystation 88. If it's around the same, I might as well have the extra keys just in case, right?

Also, how do you feel about your Keystation? Very good piece? Not so good? A little review would be helpful. :)

And finally, would you mind elaborating on what else is going on internally in the workstations?

[zircon]

Yeah, see, I'm afraid I'll need to use 88 keys, but I don't know much about this, which is why I'm asking. What would you recommend that's a quality buy, with 61 keys, then? I mean, provided it's cheaper than the Keystation 88. If it's around the same, I might as well have the extra keys just in case, right?

The M-Audio Axiom 61 is quite good, and yes, it is cheaper than the Keystation Pro 88. If you use Froogle you will find that lots of 61 key controllers are cheaper.

Also, how do you feel about your Keystation? Very good piece? Not so good? A little review would be helpful. :)

In terms of action, it feels good. It is not like a real piano, but is SIGNIFICANTLY better than my previous controller, an Edirol PCR-30 that was not weighted. I use it with an M-Audio SP2 Sustain Pedal (I believe that's the model) - playing "real" pieces feels pretty natural. However it is very large, and heavy. I also don't need all the knobs, buttons, and faders. But in terms of functioning as a controller, it is great, and you won't find anything else as good for $400.

And finally, would you mind elaborating on what else is going on internally in the workstations?

Well, a workstation does MIDI in and out, sure. But it also has a TON of other features. Synthesis, audio editing/recording, sampling, sample mapping + playback, banks upon banks of sounds... they're totally different beasts.

[Zoola]

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=277

This discussion is over.

Nooo....

http://www.roland.com/products/en/FR-7/

[OverCoat]

And finally, would you mind elaborating on what else is going on internally in the workstations?

Workstations are meant to be the only thing you need to write a song. On a full workstation keyboard you'll find synthesis, a sample bank, and/or a sequencer of varying elaboration. Something you can write entire songs on. Some examples: That thing Usa has, the Yamaha Tyros-2 [omg, pretty lights!], or a few of the hundreds of versions of Korg Tritons.

[OverCoat]

God, those V-Accordions are a fucking ripoff. I'm looking on Froogle and seeing $3000 or so.

My accordion is nice-looking, plays well, has a good range of tones, and was only $400. Of course, there's no midi outs, but that's why you get a midi keyboard for $50.

[Legion Kreinak]

The M-Audio Axiom 61 is quite good, and yes, it is cheaper than the Keystation Pro 88. If you use Froogle you will find that lots of 61 key controllers are cheaper.

In terms of action, it feels good. It is not like a real piano, but is SIGNIFICANTLY better than my previous controller, an Edirol PCR-30 that was not weighted. I use it with an M-Audio SP2 Sustain Pedal (I believe that's the model) - playing "real" pieces feels pretty natural. However it is very large, and heavy. I also don't need all the knobs, buttons, and faders. But in terms of functioning as a controller, it is great, and you won't find anything else as good for $400.

Does the Axiom allow one to switch octaves, to get the full range, if needed?

It's $100 less, so that's nice. I guess it'll be between that and the Keystation Pro 88. For $100 I get an extra 17 keys, extra knobs/sliders, and that's it?

[The Pezman]

In all seriousness I would suggest the keytar. It's got enough keys that you can set it down and play it traditionally, it's not much more expensive than the other controllers being detailed here, it's (by its nature) extremely light and portable, and when it comes time to play a live show...

HOT DAMN!

[Legion Kreinak]

In all seriousness I would suggest the keytar. It's got enough keys that you can set it down and play it traditionally, it's not much more expensive than the other controllers being detailed here, it's (by its nature) extremely light and portable, and when it comes time to play a live show...

HOT DAMN!

I don't play live shows, and that doesn't appeal to me. Thanks, but not my thing.

[Kanthos]

Does the Axiom allow one to switch octaves, to get the full range, if needed?

It's $100 less, so that's nice. I guess it'll be between that and the Keystation Pro 88. For $100 I get an extra 17 keys, extra knobs/sliders, and that's it?

I've got an Axiom 61 and love it. No, it doesn't feel like a piano, but it's got semi-weighted keys (as opposed to unweighted keys), and and it didn't take me long to adjust to playing it. Yes, there are octave switches near the mod wheel, but keep in mind that even if you choose to get a controller that doesn't have an octave switch function, you can always transpose the notes in your sequencer. There are probably more knobs and faders than you'll want, but unless it makes a big difference in cost, it's better to have a too much than too little. I recommend it highly as a good compromise between affordability and quality.

Just so you know though, it's strictly a controller. Don't expect to use it to play live without bringing a computer or an actual keyboard/synthesizer with you (you could set the Axiom's MIDI out to the MIDI in on a keyboard or synth that actually creates sound, and use the Axiom to control the other keyboard). The Axiom and any other MIDI controller will only produce MIDI data, not audio data.

[Legion Kreinak]

Alright, they both sound good. I'll try them out at a music store one day soon, and see what I like more.

I finally realized how to record live in FL. It's kind've odd. I have to keep up with the cursor to place beats where I want, because you need to set the tempo beforehand.

I was hoping I just could play the keys, and whatever speed I went, the beat would be recorded at. Is there a way to do that? You know, play and have it take down YOUR tempo, not a preset one?

[Kanthos]

Not really. I mean, you can turn off the metronome and play at your own pace, ignoring the tempo you set in FL Studio, but if you plan on using more than one instrument, it'll be hard to sync them all. Of course, if you're doing something like a solo piano piece, you'll want to use FL Studio just as a way to record the piece and clean up the notes and maybe add some effects like a little bit of reverb, so the tempo setting doesn't matter.

Assuming you're working with more than one instrument, the only point I can see of recording while ignoring the set tempo is to either do tempo changes or other tempo effects like rubato. In both cases, you'll be better off by recording at a steady pace and using FL Studio's event editor to manually adjust the tempo (gradually for rubato, an immediate switch for a hard tempo change) than by trying to play it in like that.

EDIT: Oh, I figured you might also be saying, "Why do I have to record at the playback tempo". Well, lower the tempo when you're recording, and bump it back up for playback.

[suzumebachi]

I have a 61 key midi controller, and in all honesty, I wish it were larger. :(

[Legion Kreinak]

I have a 61 key midi controller, and in all honesty, I wish it were larger. :(

Why? What else does it need? What's the issue?

[Synth]

As a piano player I also want a full. But even if I wasnt I would still want a full. I may not use those lower/higer notes that often, but I still want the ability to.

[zircon]

Trust me, it's really not worth it. I AM a piano player, I spend hours a day writing all kinds of music, and I've had this 88-key controller for months now. I have yet to encounter a case where I've needed all the keys. Unless you are going to be recording entire performances of classical material that take advantage of the full range you don't need 88 keys. EVEN the wide-range keyswitch and performance patches I use in Kontakt 2 use 4 or maybe 5 octaves. NOT the whole thing.

[Kanthos]

It all depends on your use. If you want it for recording and also for playing classical or jazz music and you're proficient enough at either of those styles to be playing pieces that have a large range, then yes, an 88-key will be necessary. If all you're doing is recording, if you don't need the range, or if you can work out a piano piece to the point where you may have to hit the octave shift once or twice to be able to perform it as intended, then a 61 will do. I wouldn't get less than 61 though unless you're a horrible pianist and only want a MIDI controller for stepwise recording or something.

[Legion Kreinak]

You guys convinced me - 61-key it is. I can't see myself using a full 88-key that often. I just want it for step editting, basically.

When you guys use MIDI controllers in FL, do you use live recording mode, or step editting?

When I do step editting with a keyboard, since they're velocity sensitive, does that mean if I tap the key lightly, it will automatically make the volume for that sound low?

[OverCoat]

When I do step editting with a keyboard, since they're velocity sensitive, does that mean if I tap the key lightly, it will automatically make the volume for that sound low?

duh!

Well, not the volume, the velocity. 2 different things! [google them]

Also, the step sequencer blows. I haven't used the step sequencer since FL3.0

[Legion Kreinak]

duh!

Well, not the volume, the velocity. 2 different things! [google them]

Also, the step sequencer blows. I haven't used the step sequencer since FL3.0

What do you use, then, to record the instruments and make a song? Just live recording?

[zircon]

You guys convinced me - 61-key it is. I can't see myself using a full 88-key that often. I just want it for step editting, basically.

When you guys use MIDI controllers in FL, do you use live recording mode, or step editting?

When I do step editting with a keyboard, since they're velocity sensitive, does that mean if I tap the key lightly, it will automatically make the volume for that sound low?

I use the piano roll 99% of the time, inputting notes using the mouse. Occasionally I record MIDI using my controller. Drums are sequenced using the step sequencer.

[OverCoat]

What do you use, then, to record the instruments and make a song? Just live recording?

How else do you use a MIDI controller?

Yes, the entire song is better left off to live recording of EVERYTHING. You can do about 30 decent live takes or 1 mouse-clicked sequence, in the same amount of time. The live takes are already realistic too [don't need to "humanize" anything]. Quantizing takes no time at all, use it at your discretion.

[Legion Kreinak]

I use the piano roll 99% of the time, inputting notes using the mouse. Occasionally I record MIDI using my controller. Drums are sequenced using the step sequencer.

Wow, you really don't use the controller that much? Weird.

[Legion Kreinak]

How else do you use a MIDI controller?

Yes, the entire song is better left off to live recording of EVERYTHING. You can do about 30 decent live takes or 1 mouse-clicked sequence, in the same amount of time. The live takes are already realistic too [don't need to "humanize" anything]. Quantizing takes no time at all, use it at your discretion.

I figured you'd use it with the step sequencer, just because it's more hands-on and precise than using the mouse or keyboard. And it's just easier.

I feel like I'd be off with live takes. Maybe I just need to be a piano player to feel comfortable. Do you know what notes you want to use before you play, or do you just kinda do stuff on the fly?

Quantizing? What's that?

[Kanthos]

Whether you use the step sequencer or record live depends on how good you are as a pianist and what style of music you're making. If you can do a pretty good live take and do a bit of overdubbing or editing to clean it up, you might as well do live. If you're doing something like jazz or classical, especially jazz because of swung rhythms, you're better off using a MIDI controller. If you're doing styles like techno and electronic, such as Zircon does, where there's not as many notes to input and things like automation and production are more prominent, it's probably faster to use the piano roll than to constantly move your hands from computer keyboard to MIDI controller.

[OverCoat]

If you're doing styles like techno and electronic, such as Zircon does, where there's not as many notes to input and things like automation and production are more prominent, it's probably faster to use the piano roll than to constantly move your hands from computer keyboard to MIDI controller.

Nope!

You need to get a setup like this
http://soundtempest.net/soc/imgswf/STUDIO.JPG
it is SO GOOD. You can probably lose the clutter if you have more than 10 square feet of living space, but that's generally the ideal setup, having both keyboards in front of you.

[Legion Kreinak]

Whether you use the step sequencer or record live depends on how good you are as a pianist and what style of music you're making. If you can do a pretty good live take and do a bit of overdubbing or editing to clean it up, you might as well do live. If you're doing something like jazz or classical, especially jazz because of swung rhythms, you're better off using a MIDI controller. If you're doing styles like techno and electronic, such as Zircon does, where there's not as many notes to input and things like automation and production are more prominent, it's probably faster to use the piano roll than to constantly move your hands from computer keyboard to MIDI controller.

What's automation?

[OverCoat]

What's automation?

Stuff for the synths to do automatically. In addition to plunking down notes, you can map MIDI commands for other parameters on synths, like pitch, or cutoff and resonance [google it!], and you're able to record these actions in any competent DAW [Cubase, Sonar, FL kind of]. If your MIDI controller has programmable knobs and faders, this is possible to do. Thing is, you gotta program them first. Reason, I think, has a thing that reads your MIDI controller and sees what you have, but that's the only software that does that right now.

[Zoola]

Reason, I think, has a thing that reads your MIDI controller and sees what you have, but that's the only software that does that right now.

My controller (CME UF6) (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/CME-UF6-61Key-MIDI-Controller?sku=709512) came with a cd that has the definitions for all the major DAWs. Cubase works great with this thing, and I bet for most controllers you could find one on the web.