Tryanno Lair WIP

[HoboKa]

I'm working on Tyranno Lair, but I only have the intro part down. Unfortunately I'm only using the trial version of FL, so those of you who know what I'm talking about - it's a bitch.

Well, here we go http://media.putfile.com/hosting-assed-Tyranno-Lair-mix

Just put a waste bin next to your comp if you feel the need 2 barf...this is not my best mix (of the few I've tried so far)

[CHIPP Damage]

I'm a big fan of this song too. ^_^ I don't know man. Is this the entire remix or the work-in-progress? I assume it's still in progress since it only covers the intro of the song. I'd like to think that anything that sticks this closely to the source would be enjoyable for me, but to be honest, I don't care for the type of sounds you chose to cover this with. If you want to use these sounds in a Tyranno Lair remix, then I would suggest changing up the melody a bit. Right now this is basically the exact same thing as the original but with different instruments and slower. Try altering a few pitches to throw it into a different kind of key or... something. I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what the best course of action is, but I think the result you want is to rearrange that Tyranno theme with these sounds you've got so that it sounds like something that was written originally for the genre you're trying to put it in as opposed to a cover with different sounds, but at the same time make the listener say, "Oh yeah, I can hear the Tyranno Lair music in this." I hope that wasn't too complex. I wanna hear more after you've worked on it further.

[HoboKa]

I'm a big fan of this song too. ^_^ I don't know man. Is this the entire remix or the work-in-progress? I assume it's still in progress since it only covers the intro of the song. I'd like to think that anything that sticks this closely to the source would be enjoyable for me, but to be honest, I don't care for the type of sounds you chose to cover this with. If you want to use these sounds in a Tyranno Lair remix, then I would suggest changing up the melody a bit. Right now this is basically the exact same thing as the original but with different instruments and slower. Try altering a few pitches to throw it into a different kind of key or... something. I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what the best course of action is, but I think the result you want is to rearrange that Tyranno theme with these sounds you've got so that it sounds like something that was written originally for the genre you're trying to put it in as opposed to a cover with different sounds, but at the same time make the listener say, "Oh yeah, I can hear the Tyranno Lair music in this." I hope that wasn't too complex. I wanna hear more after you've worked on it further.

Actually, that was just right, not complex at all, thx for the input. BUT unfortunately I can't save the file, so I have to start from scratch when I buy the full version of FruityLoops...the trial version only lets me export the songs into .WAV or MP3, I can't save them =/

It's good to know that I'm not inept though, lol

[HoboKa]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=55L3H7UV is my latest WIP. I think it's a step-up from my other work. And I know, the remix's name isn't very original so I'll change it eventually. Enjoy.

[Omega Xi]

I don't think I'm familiar with the source so I'll have to appologise that I can't comment on how it compares with that. How far along with this are you, I'm kinda hoping your in the early stages since it is a little short ^^; I like the atmosphere of this though, could you point me in the direction of what it's an arrangment of?

//Xi

[HoboKa]

[QUOTE=Omega Xi;288244]I don't think I'm familiar with the source so I'll have to appologise that I can't comment on how it compares with that. How far along with this are you, I'm kinda hoping your in the early stages since it is a little short ^^; I like the atmosphere of this though, could you point me in the direction of what it's an arrangment of?

Chrono Trigger, the Tyranno Lair "level/area" (it's the place where you fight the Reptites and their big T-Rex guy). I intend to make this song quite a bit longer, with a trancy-feel in the second half.

[HoboKa]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GXGEK8JX is my big phat-assed updated.
Is this nearly submittable?

[Tensei]

Ah what the heck, I'll do an in-depth commentary for ya.

0:00 - 1:23 Ah yes, the atmospheric intro is where it's at in the source-tune (IMO), so you should definitely capitalize on it. It's definitely evocative and atmospheric enough with the string pads and everything, but it's kind of incoherent, I think it needs a bit more structure

1:24 - 2:59 I think this whole part is very redundant, the whole soundscape seems to take a step back in comparison to the previous section. A 3-minute intro though? I know Trance is all about the build-up, but 3 minutes is way too long, IMO you could actually cut this whole part out.

3:01 - 4:15 Production-wise you're doing pretty good, and you've arranged the original quite skillfully, but it just doesn't work for me here. I admit, the source tune is hard to remix (speaking from experience here), but there's something in the chord progression that doesn't make it pleasant to listen to at all.

The lack of a real lead, and the presence of the choral pads doesn't do much for a forward drive that's often needed to keep a trance song interesting. It also suffers from too much repetition, but IMO that's not so much the problem as the previous issues.

4:16 - 5:10 This transition feels extremely awkward, and "un-trancish" (though I'm not a trance listener myself). You shouldn't suddenly let everything come to a full stop, but maybe opt for some subdued bass or drum pattern to connect the loose ends. The section itself is moderately interesting because of the odd drum-pattern and the sfx, but it still doesn't do a whole lot for me.

5:17- End
Seems basically like a copy+ paste of the third section, with maybe one additional drum pattern. It needs some lead or plucked arpeggio's or whatever, so you get that ultimate-conclusion-epic-feel where all instruments start playing together (or whatever =P) before the end of the track so you can get a suitable ending. Speaking of ending, this one really doesn't fit, it's way too sudden etc.

As a conclusion; you obviously know your way around synthesizers, sfx and the like, what I'd suggest you do is listen to a track similar to what you're aiming for, and try to implement the model (intro - build-up - main thingy - bridge - outro- etc.) to your mix. Basically you got the loose sections done, now you have to fit them together in a working formula.

[HoboKa]

Wow, thanks man, it's good to have some real input. Yeah I tried something different and messed up I guess, I'll cut down the intro and see if I can change up the lead synth. In my own head the trancy part sounded on key and pleasant, but I guess that's my own opinion lol. I'm new to FL, but I get better each day ;)

[Tensei]

Well I didn't say it was off-key or anything, the whole thing is sequenced quite nicely. I think it's more of a subjective problem where the source song itself does not have a melody that's interesting enough to use =p

[HoboKa]

Oh right well, I'd have to do a MIDI rip to get the whole thing, and well I really don't feel like being a wannabe so :P, I'm gonna have to see if I can actually imitate the whole song first, then rearrange it...cuz I skipped the whole bass part in it.

[Monobrow]

Well, honestly, if I were you, I'd cut out the entire first part of the song (up to around 1:30?) (with the heartbeat type things) and just start from the weird piano part instead... The intro is way too long... and I kinda feel that the heartbeat thing is a little corny, or just not executed like you may have originally been aiming for.

What you do with the source material is creative as far as trance may go, but I think much more can be done...The theme itself is very versatile to work with, so just experiment with the melody and countermelody and the chord progression some more, because I think you really need a more dynamic build as the song progresses.

[HoboKa]

Well, honestly, if I were you, I'd cut out the entire first part of the song (up to around 1:30?) (with the heartbeat type things) and just start from the weird piano part instead... The intro is way too long... and I kinda feel that the heartbeat thing is a little corny, or just not executed like you may have originally been aiming for.

What you do with the source material is creative as far as trance may go, but I think much more can be done...The theme itself is very versatile to work with, so just experiment with the melody and countermelody and the chord progression some more, because I think you really need a more dynamic build as the song progresses.

Oh dear...I wish you said that earlier. I cut out the part with the weird piano :S but I think I can do that over again.
BTW, what does "countermelody" and "chord progression" mean :S? I'm a newb to musical terminology and theory.

[HoboKa]

Well, I started over and retained some of the song. Keep in mind that it's even more "WIP-y" than the last song, therefore there's a few notes that are unpleasant to the ear and some of it is kinda loud...
-All I really need to know is this heading in the right direction?
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HG9HTBFG Hope you like it.

[HoboKa]

I really don't want to have to keep on posting and posting, but I have a new WIP of Tyrano Lair that takes a whole different angle/style.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=F42RUWW I think this is pretty damned close to OC material. If not, then I just wasted 8 hours of my ****ing day lol.

[Monobrow]

Can you repost this? I've been gone for a bit, I may give it a listen.

[HoboKa]

That was an old pile of crap. Trust me, you don't want to hear it. But LagunaCloud and I are collaborating on the Tyrano Lair remix now, (plus he knows quite a bit more about tempo and melody than I so there's a good chance we'll hit pay dirt). Anywho, it's kinda boring but at least the melody is more or less correct.
http://media.putfile.com/new-idea2

[Tensei]

productionwise, this is slowly getting there. However, in terms of arrangement, I think the intro is drawn out wayyyyyyy tooooo long, I would end it at 0:28. I can't say I like the fourth chord you're using in the intro either (0:07, 0:21), it's unexpected, and it doesn't work for me at all. When you get to the main melody I think you could make things pick up a bit more, add percussion, or at least SOMETHING that isn't playing long, drawn-out chords. The long slow passages work for half a minute at most, after that it really sounds like you're just noodling around. I know you're probably purposefully going for a dissonant approach, but the high violin is so dissonant it makes me cringe. The explosion at the end is totally out of place, it made me chuckle though =P

What you've got now is a half minute intro that's drawn out to two and a half minute, so I suggest you cut out about two minutes and start making a section where things really pick up.

[HoboKa]

Actually the introduction is 45 seconds long. The main melody is the piano and its support instruments ><. I was thinking of adding in a certain form of percussion but its hard to do so, without making it sound out of place. Laguna was thinking of maybe using a timpani and bongos, because rock drums just don't fit with it at all (as well as techno drums). We still intend to keep it dissonant though I'm sure that we can find ways to make not all of the instruments sound long and drawn out. Keep in mind, its not done yet, so when we do finish it, then we'll do some more heavy editting ^^ - we hadn't actually intended to submit this to the WIP forums until later, but eh shit happens.
Thanks for the tips Sensai-Tan.

[HoboKa]

http://media.putfile.com/Tyrano-DanceTranceLinks
This is definitely more upbeat ;-), it's still painfuly WIP-ish, so its hurting in certain parts. But over all I think this is coming together.

BTW Sensei-Tan thank you very very very much for the choir sample you gave me - it rocks.

[HoboKa]

Okay, here's a newer version. LagunaCloud and I have been toiling hard at this and I think we're about 3/4 of the way done. Is this to you guys' liking?
http://media.putfile.com/Tyrano-Remix-888-ug-X-x

[Vidilian]

A mix of classical and techno? You should try and make the transitions between genres a little smoother. I guess u could listen to http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00956/ for an idea of what I mean. You probably already have anyway.

[HoboKa]

A mix of classical and techno? You should try and make the transitions between genres a little smoother. I guess u could listen to http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00956/fo for an idea of what I mean. You probably already have anyway.

It says error 404, file not found T_T

[Vidilian]

OK, try it now. If it still doesn't work then the mix is 'CidSendsaDreamtotheUnderseaPalace' by Star Salzman.

[HoboKa]

OK, try it now. If it still doesn't work then the mix is 'CidSendsaDreamtotheUnderseaPalace' by Star Salzman.

Ohh I have that on my desktop, good idea. I'll look into that song lol.

[Nutritious]

Taking a listen...

Choir patch at the beginning sounds fakey and exposed. It's moving rigidly between notes, which isn't helping. This sample isn't the greatest, but it might be salvageable with some better processing. Try lowering the volume and adding some slow decay reverb to push it back further in the mix. Also, consider rewriting the part so it doesn't jump notes so much.

The low string at the beginning has similar issues, but not quite as bad. It's awkwardly jumping between notes. Similar solution to above may help.

Moving towards the end of the intro. The strings are still sounding pretty dry and low-heavy.

Instead of fading out the whole track a couple times, try to come up with some transitions. If you can get creative in your transition between the orchestral/choral and the beat-driven section, it would really help this piece.

I'm not the best person for feedback on the trance-type section, but I'll try to give a little. The lower end on the strings/pad seems a bit loud, but not constantly - it's coming in and out.

Another couple sections where the beat drops and it goes to strings briefly. The transitions here also need some work as well. Kick suddenly gets louder on random beats several times after the halfway point - it could be due to a mistake in sequencing or that it's conflicting with other parts and is coming through louder when the other parts drop out.

Good work so far, though I think it would be helpful if you can get more feedback from someone more experienced in trance.

[HoboKa]

Okay, Lagunacloud and I are back from the dead, and have our Tyrano Lair Wip around %90 done. How's it sound?
http://media.putfile.com/Tyrano-Near-Final

[OA]

The strings at the beginning have an annoyingly mushy attack; you are using the wrong sample for the job. The cello is decent, but the string ensemble is no good for this part. Get something with a stronger attack.

Drums sound very default and wimpy. It sounds like you want them to drive the track but they don't have the punch of volume they need. Add a stronger gate to the bass drum, and bring up the volume. The part writing is also pretty boring and could use a lot more hi-end stuff; mix up the hats and stuff a little. The straight ahead beat can work with excellent production, but in this case a more interesting beat would help a lot.

Synths are also really default sounding, and two dimensional. They need to be widened quite a bit. double some parts and work with panning to thicken the sound.

There are weird timing issues throughout with the beat skipping as well, really distracting.

Vocal sample at the end is good and the effects used are cool, but it should be at the climax of the song, not at the end where it is winding down.

Keep working on this, guys. :-)

[HoboKa]

[QUOTE=OA;321122]

Synths are also really default sounding, and two dimensional. They need to be widened quite a bit. double some parts and work with panning to thicken the sound.

Hm okay the rest of the tips make sense, but I don't know how to widen a synth. I'm still new to this stuff and I'm providing all the samples =S LagunaCloud is doing the melody and note progression mostly. (I'm the one who made the weak drums though)
Additonaly, I can tell you that I'm using Sytrus and Toxic III mainly for my synths, I don't how to make my own samples unfortunately.

[HoboKa]

Drums sound very default and wimpy. It sounds like you want them to drive the track but they don't have the punch of volume they need. Add a stronger gate to the bass drum, and bring up the volume. The part writing is also pretty boring and could use a lot more hi-end stuff; mix up the hats and stuff a little. The straight ahead beat can work with excellent production, but in this case a more interesting beat would help a lot.


Keep working on this, guys. :-)

BTW for the drums, how is the repeat part with the drums? Is that part written pretty well, or does it need some drum rolls...if so what kind of rolls? Pardon my newbness =/

[LagunaCloud]

I like those thoughts.
I'll talk to hoboka when my IMing program is working, cause he was talking to me but it couldn't talk back.:(

[HoboKa]

I like those thoughts.
I'll talk to hoboka when my IMing program is working, cause he was talking to me but it couldn't talk back.:(

Oh that's why. I thought you were giving me the silent treatment for some reason ><.

[Tensei]

Hm okay the rest of the tips make sense, but I don't know how to widen a synth. I'm still new to this stuff and I'm providing all the samples =S LagunaCloud is doing the melody and note progression mostly. (I'm the one who made the weak drums though)
Additonaly, I can tell you that I'm using Sytrus and Toxic III mainly for my synths, I don't how to make my own samples unfortunately.

Sensei-tan to the rescue I guess.

Layering, Layering, Layering is the way to go. What OA meant was that you take the synth you have now, you copy it once or twice, pan one to the right, the other to the left, and you'll get a much meatier and phatter sound.

I think this mix needs much more bass. You have the synth, some pads and the drums, but it really feels like there's nothing under the ~100 Hz mark, which is exactly what this mix needs for booty-shaking.

Also, the " We are the reptites" voice was awesome, but put it somewhere in the intro, just before the beat drops.

[HoboKa]

Sensei-tan to the rescue I guess.

Layering, Layering, Layering is the way to go. What OA meant was that you take the synth you have now, you copy it once or twice, pan one to the right, the other to the left, and you'll get a much meatier and phatter sound.

I think this mix needs much more bass. You have the synth, some pads and the drums, but it really feels like there's nothing under the ~100 Hz mark, which is exactly what this mix needs for booty-shaking.

Also, the " We are the reptites" voice was awesome, but put it somewhere in the intro, just before the beat drops.

Okay thanks Sensei Tan :D thats good clarification. But, what kind of brass?
<----I R nub

[Tensei]

Okay thanks Sensei Tan :D thats good clarification. But, what kind of brass?
<----I R nub


BASS, not brass, hehe =P

I suggest finding some sort of synth bass preset that you like, layer it with some other bass/sub-bass samples you like, so you get a nice and phat bass sound.

[HoboKa]

[QUOTE=Tensei-San;321621]BASS, not brass, hehe =P



Doh!! Okay, We'll figure this shiznit out
Oh wait we do have a bass! It's a cello...of all things for the electronic part, apparently it needs to be amplified :P....LoL amplifying a cello how stupid does that sound ^^

[LagunaCloud]

more bass huh I like the idea, also we could maybe do more voice acting in there.
That might be cool

[HoboKa]

more bass huh I like the idea, also we could maybe do more voice acting in there.
That might be cool

I agree, and if any1 else wants to do some voice acting too, they're welcome to do so :D

[HoboKa]

Behold, LagunaCloud's and HoboKa's new and improved remix of Tryano Lair. This is getting hawter girls - you feel the same way? You digging it? Huh, huh are you, are yooooOOOoOooooUu!!!??? *explodes*

Anywho, here's the link. Enjoy ;-)
http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/nssc/TL-getting-hawter4-biatch_ch_ch_mc_ch

BTW we're gonna get some real guitar samples in semi-soonish ;-)

[HoboKa]

please...need...input badly.
Yay or nay?
Need better EQ?
Need more bass?
Need more punches in the face?
Need more etc??

[Inv1ctus]

this piece has matured a lot from the original, and actually suprised me with the transition. Sounds good! That synth is pretty kick ass. That pitch work is really cool too. I think im gonna have to get out my guitar and jam alongside this piece.

[Inv1ctus]

please...need...input badly.
Yay or nay?
Need better EQ?
Need more bass?
Need more punches in the face?
Need more etc??


lol i would say maybe a little more bass. I dunno if its my headphones or not (usually i listen with my sound system cuz these headphones are really shitty) but anyways if there was a bass part i couldnt tell it was there. EQ seems to be good so far.



Keep it up!

[HoboKa]

actually in that case the EQ just sucks
there is a bass rofl

[HoboKa]

this piece has matured a lot from the original, and actually suprised me with the transition. Sounds good! That synth is pretty kick ass. That pitch work is really cool too. I think im gonna have to get out my guitar and jam alongside this piece.

LOL every1 wants to jam with this piece insofar...sensei tan and OA, ok fine so just two other ppl but still thats 3 points for me wooot :D

[HoboKa]

http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/vndd/TL-Poo-in-Da-Shoe-fo-YoOOooOOoOOUuUuuuU
Newest ver. insofar; almost done, yet not lol.

[The Derrit]

The part up until "we are the reptites" doesn't really vary much from the source, at all. but the latter half was alright, it could use some major equalizing, along with some better soundfonts, but from a composition standpoint it wasn't so bad. its certainly a lot better than your original pieces here though i have to say it still needs plenty of work. its getting there bit by bit!

[Radiowar]

I dunno, having never heard the source, a lot of this seems pretty random to me. You never stick with an idea that gives me a sense of where I am in the song. Production issues aside, the mix just doesn't seem to have any logical progression to it. I think that's the main thing you should be paying attention to, rather than production and sound quality things.

[metaphist]

The whole section from 1:00 to 2:00 is a bit weird to me. I can hear some of the source there, but it's a bit too hard to pick out and sounds random like Radiowar said. The ending is a little of the same, but overall I see what direction your taking.

Not trying to sound derogatory, but your ambitions for this piece seem to escape your expertise at this point, but with some dedication this could be very nice indeed.

[HoboKa]

The whole section from 1:00 to 2:00 is a bit weird to me. I can hear some of the source there, but it's a bit too hard to pick out and sounds random like Radiowar said. The ending is a little of the same, but overall I see what direction your taking.

Not trying to sound derogatory, but your ambitions for this piece seem to escape your expertise at this point, but with some dedication this could be very nice indeed.

its okay, we do that a lot >_>, thx for the input, me more so though lol