Search by genre [Archive] - OverClocked ReMix Forums

nrich

09-06-2008, 08:36 AM

The powers that be think genres are overrated and that you'd be missing out on several quality songs.

Which is very contradicting... Say you got someone who loves Shnabubula's solo piano arrangement "Anachronism" from Secret of Evermore and wants to hear more tracks like that. How? By searching through hundreds upon hundreds of remixes? Yes, genres are overrated but when you keep them down to a point (rock, jazz, classical, etc., and nothing like progressive swedish death metal, neo-psychedelic rock, baroque indie pop) it would probably work out just fine.

Dhsu

09-06-2008, 08:37 AM

Yeah, if you want stuff in a particular genre, typically just ask here and we'll try to make a list for you. Although there have been so many "relaxing" and "piano" and "orchestra" and "vocal" requests that I start to wonder if it wouldn't be easier to just have a permanent list somewhere to save everybody the trouble.

Actually, the more people ask for this, the more I wonder if it might be a decent idea after all. I don't see educating "close-minded" listeners as an overly valid reason...if they want to be close-minded, they're going to find some way to do it no matter what, and it doesn't seem appropriate to force tolerance on them. Judging from the friends I have that go here, the main selection criteria people have is actually the source game and tune...should we then eliminate those identifiers as well in the hopes of inducing open-mindedness in listeners?

I guess I can understand that some ReMixes are hard to classify, but I see djp try to do it in his write-ups all the time anyway. I think a multiple tag system would help in that aspect. It might even help open people up to other genres...for example, if someone searches for "rap" and gets "Oil Ocean (WT-40 Mix)," he might become interested in ethnic, rock, or electronica music as well.

OverCoat

09-06-2008, 08:52 AM

I believe joshua morse [???] has a website for genre sorting of OCR mixes

I forget where it is though

nrich

09-06-2008, 08:54 AM

I think a multiple tag system would help in that aspect. It might even help open people up to other genres...for example, if someone searches for "rap" and gets "Oil Ocean (WT-40 Mix)," he might become interested in ethnic, rock, or electronica music as well.

Integrating a web 2.0 function like that could be the sensible way of tackling the situation. If shitty blogs the world wide web over can use it, why not a legit and thriving music community like OCR?

Hausdog

09-06-2008, 12:57 PM

Hallelujah, a good suggestion, and no one has flat out disagreed ITT yet (I THINK)
And yeah, no one says things have to fall into exactly one genre. Just rock, classical, electronic, jazz, whatevs.
With maybe "fast" and "slow" or "vocal" and "instrumental" options.

Kenobio

09-06-2008, 02:14 PM

I believe joshua morse [???] has a website for genre sorting of OCR mixes

I forget where it is though

I belieeeeve he took it down, sadly.

Ray Falling

09-06-2008, 02:36 PM

I wouldn't mind setting up a site for that as a temporal fix, but it'd have to be very clear to me which song fits in which genre. Not to mention it'd take a while to go through alllll the remixes.

Still, I'm a webdesigner...I need practice..I'd do it for free :D

Dyne

09-06-2008, 02:44 PM

Integrating a web 2.0 function like that could be the sensible way of tackling the situation. If shitty blogs the world wide web over can use it, why not a legit and thriving music community like OCR?
But think about how much time it would take djpretzel to code everything. He's already got a full schedule as it is. Splitting time between work and OCR as well as his fiancee and just generally having a life as is. And of course, remixing for projects he's involved in and what not. Like I said, he's got a busy schedule, but also, he's the solo coder of the entire site. What else would you ask of him?

Not that I'm putting down a genre sorting concept, it's a great idea, but as has been said many times before, it's hard to tack a genre down to any remix on the site. Some remixes are multi-genre, others are genre nobody's heard about. So, I don't know what else to say.

djpretzel

09-06-2008, 02:48 PM

Actually, the more people ask for this, the more I wonder if it might be a decent idea after all. I don't see educating "close-minded" listeners as an overly valid reason...if they want to be close-minded, they're going to find some way to do it no matter what, and it doesn't seem appropriate to force tolerance on them. Judging from the friends I have that go here, the main selection criteria people have is actually the source game and tune...should we then eliminate those identifiers as well in the hopes of inducing open-mindedness in listeners?

I guess I can understand that some ReMixes are hard to classify, but I see djp try to do it in his write-ups all the time anyway. I think a multiple tag system would help in that aspect. It might even help open people up to other genres...for example, if someone searches for "rap" and gets "Oil Ocean (WT-40 Mix)," he might become interested in ethnic, rock, or electronica music as well.

I guess I'm open to it... actually, vb 3.7 allows for thread tagging, and since each mix has a dedicated review thread, we could simply cross-reference those tags to the mixes and bam... or do something custom if for some reason that didn't work. It'd need to be moderated heavily... In terms of developing anything separate, like Josh did, give me some time; we're doing a LOT of development this year in particular that should start seeing the light of day Q4.

DarkeSword

09-06-2008, 04:38 PM

I suggested objective tagging in J-disc years ago, but it got put on the backburner I guess.

I wouldn't open tagging up to the general populace though; too many people tagging stuff as "AWESOME" or "VIDEO GAME." Plus you'd get rabble-rousers tagging stuff as "shitty techno" and other such nonsense.

I think we'd need a dedicated team to--given a set of ground rules--go through the archives and tag everything appropriately, with objective descriptors.

Nohbody

09-06-2008, 05:57 PM

I have trouble classifying most song from this site into genres. usually they end up as electonic becuase most songs are done on a computer. we would need to create a few genres before we could classify all the songs here

Rozovian

09-06-2008, 06:18 PM

I share Darke's concerns when it comes to bad tagging, but I'm positive to the idea of letting people tag the tracks... assuming there were clear guidelines for how to classify stuff. Perhaps it'd be best to start with pretty large tags and go into more specific details if the system works well.

Essentially, there'd have to be a brief description of the genre, not just its name. While electronic implies "done with a computer", pretty much all music passes through a computer these days. Electronic would have to refer to synth-centric music. Of course, there's synthetic elements in everything, sampling ios something of a typical aspect of electronic music... but it's not what defines the genre.

I think some of the basic tags would be orchestral, jazz, electronic, rock (should probably be more genres than that, tho), and then a tag for multiple genres and a tag for just one. Some remixes jump from genre to genre or blend them together so much, so there'd have to be something for that. Then, if these general tags work well, I guess just adding a layer of more detailed tags for people to attribute would be next.

--

An idea: Should the tags be yes/no, or should they be "% of tag voters"? The latter system comes with the benefit of ranking tracks in people's opinion of what they think it sounds like, and also allows mods to remove tag voting privileges from people who intentionally mistag. If 80% of voters feel a track is jazzy enough to be "jazz", then people looking for jazz are probably gonna find the track ranked fairly high among remixes. This way, tracks could be sorted by how fitting they are in a specific genre, allowing people who are looking for a genre to more easily find everything in that genre.

On the other hand, it could make people more selective about the remixes they dl.

Sinewav

09-06-2008, 06:56 PM

Even though I normally think it's a crappy way to evaluate someone's credibilty, you could possibly only allow people with a certain postcount to add tags. Generally speaking, if someone has been around for 500 posts and hasn't been banned yet, they can probably be trusted with something like tagging a song. It won't eliminate the need for moderation, but it would cut down on it quite a bit.

A few other ideas I had for a private tag system that doesn't involve dumping the whole workload on the judges:
only allowing remixers to tag songs, or
only allowing a large group of appointed members and/or remixers who can be trusted not to abuse their power.

I guess I just really like the idea of a democratic system where the people (even if it's only some of the people) to tag the songs. If djp and the judges are the only ones doing it, it's going to add a lot to their already heavy workload, and the tags are going to be very limited. If the a larger group is in charge of it, then you'll get a wider variety of tags. A newcomer could make broad searches like "guitar," "relaxing," or "angry," or make very specific searches like "power metal," "sawtooth wave," or "female vocals." Theoretically, they would always get the results they were looking for, without necessarily missing out on the huge variety of styles available here.

In regards to users being more selective, I personally think the opposite would happen. Most people that I know only download songs by remixers they already like or only from the games they've already played. Someone who might otherwise only download Castlevania mixes might listen to a new song because he saw something in the tags that caught his interest.

I'd like to hear peoples' thoughts on turning something like this into an unofficial site project (possibly on a different webserver if necessary). I'd be more than willing to spend the time on it, and I think it would make the site more accessible to newbies and non-gamers (I know there are a few who listen to remixes). If the djp administration does decide to do this officially, we could take a huge workload off his back by having a lot of the groundwork laid out before he gets all the necessary coding done. Thoughts?

DarkeSword

09-06-2008, 08:17 PM

Even though I normally think it's a crappy way to evaluate someone's credibilty, you could possibly only allow people with a certain postcount to add tags.

Permission to do things will never be based on postcount. :tomatoface:

djpretzel

09-06-2008, 08:51 PM

Permission to do things will never be based on postcount. :tomatoface:

Well... actually, considering only allowing PMs after postcount > 10, to avoid PM spam... never say never :)

Dhsu

09-06-2008, 09:08 PM

Haha.

It actually didn't cross my mind that a tag system would necessitate some sort of moderation...so to that, I'd suggest a simple solution: don't allow users to submit tags. Just let the judges decide on tags before each new mix is posted. Yeah, it would add even more to the judging overhead, but probably only by a few minutes or so, and I think it'll be worth it in the long run. Might need to recruit some extra trusted members to work on tagging the existing mixes though.

As for the matter of the development backlog...if you haven't already, have you considered asking CHz to help with coding? I don't want to straight-up volunteer his services prematurely, but he's been doing a lot of cool stuff for GamingForce and I feel he'd be a great asset to OCR development as well.

SoulinEther

09-06-2008, 09:38 PM

I don't know why but I strongly feel this would work better as a separate project outside of OCR... at least in the initial stages, especially if it allows any old person to tag songs. But in imagining how complicated of a system I'm suggesting, it might be a good idea to integrate.

I would imagine it would be a smart move to first create a short (50-100) list of descriptors that you can tag a song with, such as:
Genre (rock, metal, jazz, "pop", rap, new age, techno, trance, R&B, classical/orchestral, classical/piano)
Instruments/vocals (piano, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, bass guitar, oboe, ukulele, flute, cello, timpani, drums, synth (should be various types i suppose), male vocal, female vocal, chorus)
Lyrical/non-lyrical
Length (1:00-1:59, 2:00-2:59, 3:00-3:59, 4:00+, etc)
Other various descriptors (chill, upbeat, relaxing, reviving, angry-with-your-significant-other-so-you-drive-80-miles-an-hour-with-this-song-playing-on-the-car-stereo-system-and-you-scream-along-with-this-song)That way, the tags will be limited in quantity and thus accessible, constructive, and unique (no repeats). New tags could be proposed and ratified through a simple, democratic poll (maybe even on this forum).

With a well-crafted interface system thing with the song database, interesting statistics could be taken on the songs to see how commonly, say, the piano is used in remixes or what is the most commonly used genre in remixes....

Meh. Anything would be cool though.

Sinewav

09-06-2008, 09:49 PM

It would kill the variety of tags that I would hope for, but SoulinEther's idea is a good one. Would certainly be less messy.

And I never said the postcount idea was a good idea. Just brainstorming.

Echbel

03-26-2009, 01:28 AM

Hello all,

I was wondering if the site has considered adding tags to the remixes to indicate genre? Could make it easier for people to find what they want.

I know it would take some work, but I'd be willing to help out. I recently decided to listen to EVERY remix in alphabetical order (I've just barely gotten to "D" so far) so it would be easy for me to type the tags for each one as I go.

The list I had in mind would be something like:
Electronica
Dance
Trance
Drum 'n' Bass
Accoustic
Beep-boop
Vocal
Metal
Hip Hop
Ambient
Orchestral
Big Band
Mustin

Cheerful
Sad
Bittersweet
Humorous
Adrenaline
Creepy
Dramatic

OCR Album

Of course others can be added.

I don't know whose call it is on whether such a project would be OK, but I hope they see this. Thoughts?

e

Gollgagh

03-26-2009, 01:36 AM

http://www.ocremix.org/info/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Why_aren.27t_the_ReMixe s_categorized_by_genre.2C_i.e._techno.2C_jazz.2C_o rchestral.2C_etc..3F

03-26-2009, 01:37 AM

It's never gonna happen.

Flare4War

03-26-2009, 01:46 AM

What Gollgagh said.

Echbel

03-26-2009, 02:19 AM

Okay, I read the FAQ about genre tags.

I have to say - and I'm saying this as a fan - those are the lamest reasons I've ever heard.

Seriously, I thought it would be something pragmatic like "we don't have the time to categorise them" or something. But come on, the remixes don't fit cookie cutter labels? Big deal, that's what multiple tags are for. Opening people's minds? Hey, you just said the mixes don't perfectly fit the labels... let them put in Trance and listen to some new stuff they wouldn't get on any online Trance station.

As a living example, I'm offering to to do all the work involved in tagging the mixes (that's how gung ho I am for genre tags) and I just stated I'm listening to every single mix on the site in order even if they're not of a genre I normally like (even the metal ones, and that's saying a lot for me). I'd say that open minds and genre tags are perfectly compatible.

We're all here because we like video game music and I suspect most listeners will give a track a try, even a weird one if it's from a game they like. Being able to search by tag would only allow them to find something faster for a particular party, mood or playlist.

*sigh* djpretzel, if you read this, please know that my willingness to volunteer remains, and if you guys would ever be willing to change your minds, I'm here. I may not be able to mix music but I could at least do something useful for my favourite music site.

:/

ap

GeckoYamori

03-26-2009, 02:25 AM

No, the main reason is they don't want the site melting down from my nerdrage when people will inevitably tag Techno on anything that has even a remotely electronic element to it.

Echbel

03-26-2009, 02:27 AM

No, the main reason is they don't want the site melting down from my nerdrage when people will inevitably tag Techno on anything that has even a remotely electronic element to it.

But that's the beautiful thing about multiple tags. If you don't like the way the "techno" tag is applied you can click on a more specific tag like "trance" or "Drum n Bass."

And actually I excluded "techno" from my proposed list of tags precisely because it would be over- and mis-applied.

LuketheXjesse

03-26-2009, 02:45 AM

You should be willing to broaden your musical tastes outside of whatever genre you're stuck in.

End of story.

Fishy

03-26-2009, 02:54 AM

What is this obsession with catagorising every peice of music? It kind of sucks out the inidividualism and personality of music if you insist on giving it a label. Just enjoy it for what it is and put your tag guns away.

03-26-2009, 02:56 AM

i don't like country, how do i not find country music if it's not labeled :[

Skrypnyk

03-26-2009, 02:59 AM

it's funny how people are so against genre tagging, and their various silly reasons.

but it's even more funny when people tag anything 'electronica'.

03-26-2009, 03:03 AM

This whole site is "electronica".

Palpable

03-26-2009, 03:07 AM

I'm not sure how long ago that part of the FAQ was written, but I know the idea of tags has been floated by several people (check out this thread (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13957), for starters), and without having talked to him, I'd guess djp is probably not as averse to having functional tags rather than genre tags; something that objectively describes the song (violins, synths, vocals) rather than labelling it with a genre which could be contentious. You can practically already do searches on write-ups to get all the mixes where a certain instrument is mentioned, so using tags would just facilitate that.

Olarin

03-26-2009, 03:14 AM

Echbel

03-26-2009, 03:15 AM

Echbel

03-26-2009, 03:17 AM

suggestion: if you feel that passionately about putting things into tiny little boxes, nobody's stopping you from making your own website listing the remixes and providing either your own categorizations and/or a user-driven tagging system. obviously it might not get as much traffic as if it were integrated on the ocremix.org site, but it would work just as well in terms of doing what you're envisioning. but you better have quite the supply of patience for the endless stream of irresolvable flamewars about proper use of terminology that would land at your feet.

Since this would take a lot more time and technological know-how than what I offered to do, it's not really possible for me right now. If others out there would be willing to help I would totally do it. Flame wars wouldn't be a problem because there need be no public forum on a simple remix index site :)

03-26-2009, 03:27 AM

Liontamer

03-26-2009, 03:30 AM

Even going away from genres completely and doing tags according to moods, it feels exclusionary, but that's just my opinion. I'd at least be open to non-genre tags, but I'd rather do without them entirely. Try everything.

Echbel

03-26-2009, 03:37 AM

Again, it wouldn't prevent people from trying a lot of things. It would allow them to find things for a specific playlist or purpose quickly, which would be quite useful.

Frankly I'm astonished by how strongly people feel that tags are bad. It's just convenient.

03-26-2009, 03:43 AM

People are scared that if you tag the music everybody would go straight to trance or rock and avoid the country and such.

Skrypnyk

03-26-2009, 04:01 AM

People are scared that if you tag the music everybody would go straight to trance or rock and avoid the country and such.

The same can be said about each game.

Gollgagh

03-26-2009, 04:05 AM

The same can be said about each game.

I dunno about you guys but I avoid FPSes and RPGes and MMORPGs and Rhythm and RTSes and Action and Adventure and Puzzle games like the plague

(did I miss anything)

Mustin

03-26-2009, 04:12 AM

People are scared that if you tag the music everybody would go straight to trance or rock and avoid the country and such.
The same can be said about each game.

The same can be said about each game.

FACE!!

P.S. - I love that I'm my own genre hahaha

Brycepops

03-26-2009, 04:13 AM

I dunno about you guys but I avoid FPSes and RPGes and MMORPGs and Rhythm and RTSes and Action and Adventure and Puzzle games like the plague

(did I miss anything)

Action-RPG (Like Zelda 2 and Crystalis). :3

03-26-2009, 04:15 AM

The same can be said about each game.
FACE!!

My point was "Let's not tag the music so we can trick people into listening to music genres they do not like".

Dhsu

03-26-2009, 04:15 AM

The FAQ might need a little updating.

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=448265&postcount=12

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=456334&postcount=579

Palpable

03-26-2009, 04:19 AM

Dhsu

03-26-2009, 04:39 AM

Also I thought I'd mention that I just noticed your sig Gollgagh. :3

Liontamer

03-26-2009, 05:39 AM

The FAQ might need a little updating.

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=448265&postcount=12

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=456334&postcount=579

Ha. I thought I remembered him saying something like that but I did a quick scan through Morse's thread and didn't see it so I thought I'd made it up. :razz:

I also remember Shariq, Dave & I talking in #judges later about it while attempting to hash out details and then quickly realizing how much we still hated the idea for the specific reasons in the FAQ. :lol: Worth noting that genre or taxonomic labels might encourage people to check out ReMixes from games they're not interested in. Feel free to debate where the effect of labels is greater, i.e. encouraging or discouraging listening to more ReMixes.

Flare4War

03-26-2009, 05:47 AM

I dunno about you guys but I avoid FPSes and RPGes and MMORPGs and Rhythm and RTSes and Action and Adventure and Puzzle games like the plague

(did I miss anything)

Tactical. Espionage. Action.

abg

03-26-2009, 06:33 AM

I'm surprised to see links in this thread to djp floating the idea of genre tagging around. This is such a good thing! I'd like to extrapolate on why this is a good thing to encourage the people working here to implement it :)

If genre-tagging is implemented it will make it easier for users to find remixes they want to hear, and therefore they will download more remixes. A new (pay attention to the word "new" here) user who downloads a remix they don't like is less likely to come back to this website. Each time they find content they don't want they are more likely to close the browser window. On the flipside, if OCR offered genre identification, a new user would be able to quickly locate a large selection of remixes that they will probably enjoy. Then, and here's the beauty of it, it's very plausible that the user will realize that there are remixes in dozens of other genres here too, and when they feel up to it, they will choose to explore those genres as well.

Giving the user the ability to find exactly what they're looking for is the guiding principle of webdesign because it means that user will have a positive experience with the website and will likely come back to browse it again.

Obviously I'm not talking about the hardcore, anything goes, super-avid video game music fans who listen to everything that gets uploaded here. They're going to keep doing that irregardless. I'm talking about making the website easier to use for newcomers, which (in light of the increased publicity/exposure OCR has gotten lately) must be coming here in bigger numbers than ever before.

Something else that's worth considering- the way OCR is designed right now, when a remix is posted on the front page, that is when it is going to get the most exposure and therefore the most downloads. After it disappears off the front page, it vanishes into this "vault" of thousands of alphabetized remixes where basically you have to hope a user will stumble across it in their search for remixes from a specific game. If OCR were to implement genre tags, suddenly those thousands of back-logged remixes become obviously more accessible.

Power to the users!

abg

03-26-2009, 06:55 AM

I realize the only (good) reason you (staff) don't want to implement genre identifcation is because you want users to experience a variety of different kinds of music. Well.. (aside from the fact that this isnt what average people want) I just had an idea that could enable this in an especially powerful way.

Playlists!

It's a rough brainstormed idea but why not allow judges, remixers and users to post playlists of music? With the press of a button several songs could be queued up in some sort of browser-embedded player (or otherwise) that could explore many styles of remixes, without requiring the user to do any extra work. Surely there are people in this community who would appreciate how the unique quality of a playlist influences the listeners' mood and allows them to expose themselves to new kinds of music that would otherwise meet the fastforward key.

Just a thought, I'll let everyone else take it from there..

Dhsu

03-26-2009, 07:15 AM

That's an awesome idea.

SLyGeN

03-26-2009, 07:53 AM

I specifically don't download every mix, because I know if it isn't predominantly in a minor-sounding mode, I won't like it. As a result, I usually only listen to mixes based on games from which I'm familiar with and do enjoy the original material.

Here's an inconsistency: we're pretty open to the "I'm looking for this type of music" threads, but we're against genre labelling. Pick a side, gentlemen.

What would be nice is if there were a "sounds like" field next to each mix, and the listeners could post a quick message there like a shout-out box. "Sounds like dark trance with electronic elements!"

Then you avoid all of the people who complain about genre labelling, and they can find another trivial subject to pitch a bitch about.

Rozovian

03-26-2009, 10:57 AM

DarkeSword explained the apparent inconsistancy (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22517&page=2).

I also like the playlist idea, especially if it was easy to download the playlist data and use it in iTunes or your music player of choice. Dunno how compatible playlist formats are, tho.

Of course, someone would have to code the playlist into the database, someone would have to verify that the playlists contain what they're supposed to, someone would ahve to update the playlist database, etc...

The idea is great. I would gladly share some playlists once I get the fixed files from the new torrent. Wonder how hard it'd be to get this integrated into the site... and if it should be.

edit: btw, isn't this a site issues & feedback -type thread?

Doulifée

03-26-2009, 11:04 AM

hello all,

i was wondering if the site has considered adding tags to the remixes to indicate genre?

djpretzel would feel lonely having the only piece in the hillbilly genre. . . .

anyway i think people who come here are aware of what video game music is and come for particular remix of a particular game, rather that let' check for techno.

I realize the only (good) reason you (staff) don't want to implement genre identifcation is because you want users to experience a variety of different kinds of music. Well.. (aside from the fact that this isnt what average people want) I just had an idea that could enable this in an especially powerful way.

Playlists!

It's a rough brainstormed idea but why not allow judges, remixers and users to post playlists of music? With the press of a button several songs could be queued up in some sort of browser-embedded player (or otherwise) that could explore many styles of remixes, without requiring the user to do any extra work. Surely there are people in this community who would appreciate how the unique quality of a playlist influences the listeners' mood and allows them to expose themselves to new kinds of music that would otherwise meet the fastforward key.

Just a thought, I'll let everyone else take it from there..

Good idea. if the blog system is implemented why not allowing Judge, remixer (or even user) to have a small playlist too? It's maybe interesting to know what the people in your friendlist listen.

The Vagrance

03-26-2009, 11:25 AM

Part of the reason is that a good number of tracks on this site can't really be conformed to one genre, especially with how many tracks kinda glide in between techno and trance, not to mention the fact that most OCR tracks don't conform to song structures that are common in most of said genres.

prophetik music

03-26-2009, 12:17 PM

i really support the idea of having tags for tracks - even beyond genres, being able to tag a track as 'saxophone' or 'vocal' or 'ken ardency drumset' (lol) and then look up all the vocal mixes when you're in the mood would be awesome. i wish that stuff like itunes had a tagging feature, too, for personal listening.

playlists would be awesome, too.

Mustin

03-26-2009, 01:12 PM

My point was "Let's not tag the music so we can trick people into listening to music genres they do not like".

Oh, I know exactly what you meant and that's why it was a FACE to the other guy.

Because you're right - a lot of people just download the games from which they are familiar.

So it's all moot.

Palpable

03-26-2009, 01:17 PM

My own thoughts: I tend to find that tags are just a tool for finding things. I don't think the existence of these tools results in any less music, even less variety of music, being heard, but usually has the opposite effect.

The downside mentioned in the FAQ is that it means people won't give things a chance, but I think that is absolutely not true. Technically this information is already there in the form of write-ups, it's just not easy to use. If you can't stand to listen to country, djp's write-up will mention it's country, and the people who truly didn't want to hear it will stop right there. If people who aren't usually into country end up checking it out, it's because they want to give it a chance, or it's featured on the front page, or it's from a game or artist they like.

To give you an example from my own life, I couldn't stand jazz for a while until my friend turned me on to Steely Dan. My first reaction to them was "yuck, jazz" until I realized it was the group that did "Do It Again" and "Peg", songs I liked which are more pop than jazz. I got way into the group and got exposure to their more jazzy songs, eventually starting to appreciate the genre more, and because of them I branched into a lot more jazz.

In my mind, more information is only a good thing, because it's the connections between things that help you branch out, not the lack of them. With tags, I could see a techno-head finding out that a techno song he likes uses steel guitar and then checking out more songs with steel guitar, dipping into genres he thought he didn't like. Or checking out a techno/rap hybrid song that he might have dismissed initially, if he scanned over djp's write-up and just saw "rap".

Then of course, you just get the advantage of helping out the person who really does only like one genre. Even they would get to listen to more music as a result of tags.

m68030

03-26-2009, 02:21 PM

I thought this is what Last.FM's tagging system was for?

DarkeSword

03-26-2009, 02:26 PM

I've been saying that we should tag remixes with descriptors (not genres) for years.

I thought this is what Last.FM's tagging system was for?

Ha. Take a look at all of the OC ReMixes on Last.FM. "video game music" "remix" "oc remix"

That's really great. :roll:

anosou

03-26-2009, 04:49 PM

The list I had in mind would be something like:
Electronica
Dance
Trance
Drum 'n' Bass
Accoustic
Beep-boop
Vocal
Metal
Hip Hop
Ambient
Orchestral
Big Band
Mustin

...what now? :nicework:

Txai

03-26-2009, 04:55 PM

Mustin... more like gigasamples :[

Gollgagh

03-26-2009, 04:55 PM

oh rofl I didn't even see that

m68030

03-26-2009, 05:06 PM

I've been saying that we should tag remixes with descriptors (not genres) for years.

Ha. Take a look at all of the OC ReMixes on Last.FM. "video game music" "remix" "oc remix"

That's really great. :roll:

I understand in the current state it's unworkable, but that wouldn't prevent it from being used hence forth..

When we started the review forum, we went and back-reviewed all some 900 remixes so there would be at least something there. If tracks started getting tagged with both 'ocremix' and some other descriptor, it wouldn't take very long for a flashmob of supporters here to blast through the entire catalog with at least a start of something workable.

If not last.fm, then certainly some other system exists for the quantitative description of music that could be leveraged to give a little more insight into the nature of what exists here.

djpretzel

03-26-2009, 05:54 PM

Last.fm is one option, but honestly the way they handled disabling their embedded player without notifying webmasters first left a really bad taste in my mouth... in my opinion they don't have their shit together, and I don't want to rely on them for much of anything, much as I like certain aspects of their site/technology.

The easiest option is enabling thread tagging, supported in vBulletin 3.8, for the remix reviews forum, and then potentially pulling that data for display on the main mix page, although simply having it on the forums, with the ability to jump to the mix writeup from review threads, might be sufficient.

We're discussing this internally... we might put it to a panel vote and/or community vote, or simply implement something in "trial" mode.

prophetik music

03-26-2009, 06:33 PM

does thread tagging allow for a visual tag cloud and searching, like through all remixes? if so, that'd be good enough for someone like me who just wants to be able to go through and stick some labels on tracks.

of course, there'd have to be some way to limit it only to review threads.

Dhsu

03-26-2009, 06:41 PM

Although as other people have brought up, there will probably need to be some way to keep people from making inaccurate and/or useless tags. Maybe restrict it to a new "reviewer" forum group or something.

prophetik music

03-26-2009, 06:45 PM

djpretzel

03-26-2009, 06:48 PM

Need to check 100% but pretty sure vb allows moderator creation of tags and approval of user-submitted tags. We'd start with tags created by myself & the panel and approve things that made sense. Alas, Mustin would not get his own tag.

m68030

03-26-2009, 06:50 PM

Can we get a 'bad tuna' tag? (:

Elex Synn

03-26-2009, 07:01 PM

or have some people who are allowed to delete tags.

having a jillion tags per song helps too, since the best ones will be repeated a lot. if you can only pick tags out of a group of them (like, ethnic, voice, jazz, strings, etc), that'd help too.

Speaking of which what if something was in place that only displayed the tags with the highest repeated usage? In other words if the majority of people tag a song a particular tag (500+ tags) and you end up with the occasional jackass who throws a J-pop tag on a clearly classical song it won't flag the song as such on the tag search engine or what not?

Hmmm.. Y'know this made more sense when I was saying it in my head... :|

Mustin

03-26-2009, 10:42 PM

...and approve things that made sense. Alas, Mustin would not get his own tag.

I'm sorry, how does that NOT make sense? :P

[goes back to his "Gigasamples," of which he has zero of]

K.B.

03-27-2009, 12:40 AM

People are scared that if you tag the music everybody would go straight to trance or rock and avoid the country and such.
Way too much of that around.

As an outstanding coincidence, I just today rediscovered and put on repeat the awesomeness of http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01702/. Unless the tag would be Mazedude's review then it would be wrong.

I don't see the helpfulness of tags, but as long as they aren't in-your-face like they are at remix.thasauce then I think most listeners (I can't speak for remixers, of course) would be ok with their addition. I'd still very much like a way to disable them if they do get added.

03-27-2009, 02:09 AM

It was an example.

The real reason there are no tags is...

tagging the music would mean no one would listen to djp's "hillbilly" remix.

Txai

03-27-2009, 02:11 AM

Let's play some BUBBLE BOBBLE! Yeehaa!

Echbel

03-27-2009, 02:23 AM

P.S. - I love that I'm my own genre hahaha

I am glad someone noticed this at all, given the way this thread has gone.

The fact that you yourself clicked on the thread and were the first to notice it, however, truly makes my day.

@ DJPretzel: Glad to hear you guys are working on a possible solution. For what it's worth, even though I promised myself I would stop listening to the hillbilly mix, I go back to it every couple of months and play it like 5 times in a row. Willingly, even though I know it will get stuck in my head. And then after embarrassing myself for a few days at work, in the store, while driving, and anywhere else I might accidentally singing to myself I once again promise not to listen to it... for a while.

Seriously it's one of the catchiest mixes, and it always starts a conversation. :)

e

edit: making Mustin his own genre was a serious suggestion.

Reaif

03-27-2009, 04:07 AM

I can hardly express how much I support the idea of having some kind of tagging system. It's great when you have memorized a bunch of songs you want to listen to, but I will very often get in the mood for piano, and have only a few mixes that come up when I search for piano (ie, they have piano somewhere in their title), but being able to see a list of mixes that predominantly feature a given instrument... I would listen to remixes WAY more often.

I think a tagging system would really help people like me (the musically disinclined), who don't have the desire/patience/know-how to make music, to really contribute to the remixing community. Sure there is a forum here which people can throw out their nonsensical ramblings, but this would really encourage more participation in the music part of the site.

In summary, I don't even really care if regular users are allowed to add/edit tags. Mostly I would like to see some kind of organization system will allow one to browse the instrumental content. I could care less what genre it is, but sometimes I wanna hear guitars, and sometimes I want to hear piano.

OK. End of spiel.

m68030

03-27-2009, 12:37 PM

My daughter has a 'Farm Animals' toy with small animals that make noises when pressed...

The sheep noise is almost identical to the Hillbilly remix and I cannot help but hear DJP say "Hey bubba!" every time she presses it.

KyleJCrb

04-06-2009, 10:33 AM

Hey dudes, check it out: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/tags.php

Liontamer

04-06-2009, 11:38 AM

Hey dudes, check it out: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/tags.php

Just noting that that list is not complete, and we're not looking for suggestions until we fully populate the list with the tags we've come up with. As you may be able to see, we're going beyond genre to come up with a broader set of tags that are more useful.

prophetik music

04-06-2009, 12:32 PM

this could wind up being pretty awesome.

Palpable

04-06-2009, 01:05 PM

Rozovian

04-06-2009, 01:28 PM

Noticed it in the reviews forum. You guys have got a lot of remixes to tag.

DarkeSword

04-06-2009, 02:00 PM

After we finish the first pass, I definitely want to get people to come up with new tags for us and double-check certain things. I think already we're missing some mood tags that could be good to have.

Just wanna emphasize this:

Wait until we're done before you people start making suggestions. :whatevaa:

Flare4War

04-06-2009, 02:48 PM

this could wind up being pretty awesome.

Yes it could. I can see this coming in very handy for people who are new to the site, and frankly I like out it routes people to the reviews.

Anyone want a kudo?

Dafydd

04-17-2009, 01:36 PM

What is this threads tagging business? Have we finally succumbed to the general public's cravings to be able to browse mixes by genre? I seem to be able to find rock remixes by finding a thread with a "rock" tag in the reviews forum...

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/tags.php?tag=rock

I don't care, personally, but if this is an unwanted side effect of an otherwise very useful feature...

DarkeSword

04-17-2009, 02:02 PM

That's the point. You'll eventually see the tags on the remix detail page.

Liontamer

04-17-2009, 02:02 PM

We're were against doing genres, then we realized we could make tagging more powerful than that. So we decided to keep the genres pretty broad and not use that as the only classification. We'll eventually tags all of the ReMixes. Enjoy.

Skummel Maske

04-17-2009, 02:05 PM

That's a really great initiative! I've had a hard time trying to find other guitar-driven tracks to hear how they've been mixed and such.

Dafydd

04-17-2009, 02:15 PM

Ok, cool. :)

KyleJCrb

04-17-2009, 07:40 PM

You can also help out the staff and tag a couple of remixes yourself (though keep in mind that only existing tags (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/tags.php) can be used). I've been doing that with a number of tracks since the feature first rolled out.

The Favs

06-29-2009, 09:01 PM

I have a question:

Is there an option here on OC ReMix where you can search songs by genre? I know you can search by artist, game and composer.

But what if I like how one song sounds like, and want to hear others like it?

Does this site have it this option?:?:

Fishy

06-29-2009, 09:03 PM

http://www.ocremix.org/info/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Why_aren.27t_the_ReMixe s_categorized_by_genre.2C_i.e._techno.2C_jazz.2C_o rchestral.2C_etc..3F

Its in the faq, though I'm sure a few people will say we still should in this thread anyway.

Less Ashamed Of Self

06-29-2009, 09:22 PM

Long story short, ocremix's concept is one wherein favouritism is supposed to be hindered and diminished. If we suddenly put up a rap, metal, and techno section people would scream: "where's my breakbeat/dance/polka!?"

Also; generally speaking, the songs are too varied to fall under genre specifications easily. Which genre would zelda on a Heineken bottle fall under?

Moseph

06-29-2009, 09:31 PM

Actually, the threads on the reviews board (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14) are tagged by genre and other characteristics (view a thread and scroll down to just below the last post on the page to see the tags).

And before you rush off to check, Zelda Heineken is tagged with "instrumental, winds."

Palpable

06-29-2009, 09:33 PM

The FAQ doesn't entirely reflect the views held by djp and other staff today... I'm in the process of tagging mixes by genre, instruments, and other descriptors.

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/search.php

Check out the tag cloud at the bottom of that page for some search terms. Right now, the search is not that advanced, but it can find you all the guitar mixes that have been tagged so far, for example.

Fishy

06-29-2009, 09:59 PM

o shi- I forgot about the tagging business. Yeah I spose that is the only reasonable alternative, give it lots of genres!

prophetik music

06-30-2009, 01:01 AM

we should pidgeonhole all mixes appropriately, thank you very much. genre should be the only sorting option, so i can get all my breakbeat polka mixes without having to see the other heretical trash on this site.

Gollgagh

06-30-2009, 01:08 AM

breakbeat polka

I want to hear this now

The Favs

07-02-2009, 12:16 AM

I'm all up for broadening my horizons (you should see my iPod library: rock, classic, polka, new age, rap, etc.). It'd just be nice if I could see a song, see it's genre and say "Hey, I feel like listening to a little *insert genre(s)*. I'd still hear anything, but it'd be great help if, for say, you're looking for something specific. Makes sense, right?

prophetik music

07-02-2009, 02:52 AM

i'd suggest doing those genre things yourself. i use the comments field in most mp3 tags for this, so i can just search and organize by them if i want.

cunning alias

09-10-2009, 06:41 PM

Hi
Iv always found it strange that there is no genre field in a songs data. It would be useful to know when searching for something new to listen to. You could also group and search songs by genre.

Iv worked on sites and databases before and I don't think it would be too hard to implement (although I don't know how you have your system set up). The only issue could be getting all the artists to fill in the data themselves.

Hope you think about it.

Rozovian

09-10-2009, 08:03 PM

They're waay ahead of you (http://www.ocremix.org/forums/tags.php). Don't think they've tagged everything yet tho, and it's not the mixes themselves that are tagged, just their review thread (and no direct link from review thread to remix, unfortunately).

Tho artists filling out the tags themselves is a stupid idea. :P Then there'd be stuff tagged "epic" and "awesome" and "lol" and "shtyjdgfgts" and "oc" and stuff... Like on youtube. ;)

KyleJCrb

09-10-2009, 09:12 PM

Genres officially will not be integrated into song data or the site, just the more generic tags. Here's why.

OC ReMix has no intentions of categorizing pieces by genre. We've discussed this matter several times - what it boils down to is a feeling that:

* There are many pieces that don't fit nicely into genres or have multiple genres, and putting them in "miscellaneous" and "multiple" categories would be kind of lame; and
* Part of the purpose of the site is to open people's minds (and ears) to new horizons. Try everything. If all you want to do is download Square techno, so be it, but you'll be missing out on tons of great songs. We've decided not to implement a system that would encourage that kind of navigation.

A third reason could potentially be that djpretzel would feel lonely having the only piece in the hillbilly genre, but we think the first two reasons are strong enough.

codebeard

10-02-2009, 03:53 PM

I think this is a really good idea. I've already found several new favourite songs by deciding "I'll play songs from this tag today".

Because I found the forum tag browser to be a little cumbersome (no ability to search by multiple tags, for example), I decided to write a little website to facilitate this.

http://kieranclancy.com/ocrtags/

At the moment (about a day after I started writing it), it supports:
- Showing a list of remixes with links to the main remix page and forum thread
- Filtering by any number of tags
- Ability to exclude any number of tags
- View untagged remixes
- Downloadable m3u playlists for any set of filters
- Ability to search for 'similar' remixes to any remix based on tags

I hope that this can be a sort of proof-of-concept for some cool things that tagging remixes will allow. Whether you feel in the mood for 'sad+piano' or 'guitar+chiptune', I hope you can have some fun listening to different combinations of tags.

Please let me know if you find this site to be useful, or if you have any other feedback.

Thanks,
codebeard.

PS: I manually run a script which scrapes any modified tags (in an efficient way), so don't expect any modifications to appear until I remember to run my script.

Rozovian

10-02-2009, 04:08 PM

- Downloadable m3u playlists for any set of filters
- Ability to search for 'similar' remixes to any remix based on tags

These two thing are great. Would be even greater if they'd be integrated into the ocr site, of course. :D

Palpable

10-02-2009, 04:15 PM

Wow, this is excellent. I know djp had wanted to do something like this when we were finished tagging; maybe this is something we can integrate into the site eventually. This helps me in just figuring out which mixes are untagged! Speaking of which, I should get back to tagging... :razz:

haxor

10-25-2009, 07:52 AM

Or perhaps when you are looking at a certain song, you can see other songs that are similar to it.

stkyle

11-05-2009, 04:37 AM

How about simply tagging the file? So that after you download it you can sort your play lists according to genre. I realize I can do it myself (and I'm trying lol) ...it's just tough now that I'm 500 ish songs into OCremix ^_^

For those songs that don't fit, simply leave as Game Remix, because I see that as a perfectly acceptable genre in itself.

Liontamer

11-05-2009, 01:00 PM

codebeard

02-16-2010, 10:40 AM

Hmm - one thing I have noticed recently is that the 'instrumental' tag page only ever has 500 remixes on it -- no more. I think there must be a LIMIT 500 somewhere in the SQL?

http://ocremix.org/forums/tags.php?tag=instrumental

For example, 'Mega Man 3 Magnet Missles' (http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22452) is not currently visible on the instrumental tag page, even though it's tagged as instrumental.

Sir_Snooze

03-04-2010, 02:47 PM

Is there any way to sort tunes by genre on OCR? I ask because I think it might not be an all-bad idea. Say you're looking for house music, or acoustic, or whatever - the way things are now, if you want to see if there's a popular song in your preferred style (say, Gerudo Valley), you have to click on all of them. I don't know if that's intentional (so as to force everyone to listen to all the songs until they hit one in the style they want), and I'd be more than willing to compile a list of genres and tunes that fit them. I'm not sure what sort of genres we'd want, or if anyone could work with me so as to create a consensus of sorts: hence, this thread.

Right now, I have this list:

Electronica:
- House
- Trance
- Ambient
- Experimental
- Downbeat
- Drum 'n' Bass (DnB)

[not sure whether dance should go in, too]

Classical:
- Chamber
- Orchestral
- Live Solo - Piano
- Live Solo - Other
- A Cappela

[here, I'm stuck. Romantic/Baroque - do we have enough baroque tunes to distinguish?]

Rock:
- Classic sound
- Guitar - Sheddage (I don't know a better word for this)
- Folk Rock
- Heavy Rock
- [Metal]
[debating sticking metal in here. Thoughts?]

World/Folk:

[no categories yet; does this even need any categories?]

Would such a thing be wanted? And, if so, I'm willing to set to work on it, but if anyone's interested in giving me a hand and/or giving me some genres to work with, let me know.

Schwaltzvald

03-04-2010, 02:52 PM

Could be done but won't happen anytime soon, if ever.

Sir_Snooze

03-04-2010, 03:25 PM

I don't mind doing it, but it has to be useful to be worth the time. Plus, after http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?p=651826#post651826

I feel inspired to work! I think this song is a communist plot.

Schwaltzvald

03-04-2010, 03:28 PM

It's not about finding some one arsed enough to spend that time doing so, it simply won't happen. There've been a few threads before suggesting similar ideas and all were met with a big, fat, no; not without good reason.

Just trying to save you the trouble and time you could have spent better upon. Like trying to beat my highscores on Gradius V or something. :lol:

Edit*

Why pigeon hole all the tracks into genres when they can all be a surprise when you listen to them..?

At the very least, all the tracks have an opportunity to entertain some one who'd not likely hear it in the first place had it been plopped into a genre section.

However, certain games often get certain types of music, or at least most recognizable. Final Fantasy often get classical and rock, Megaman rock and some metal with electronica ect.

The Author

03-04-2010, 03:31 PM

OCR is about all the music, you can't simply write off a song because of genre, you have to listen to it to see if you like it or not. And for that I think OCR is doing a good service not just to videogame music but music in general.

Moseph

03-04-2010, 03:53 PM

The review thread for each ReMix is tagged by genre. You can search tags from the forum search page. How is this not common knowledge by now?

If you want to add/change tags, (I assume) PM'ing Larry would be the way to go.

Kidd Cabbage

03-04-2010, 10:42 PM

This list would be far too long and subjective for there to really be a complete list on here. There are at least 100 different styles of electronica alone, let alone the tons of various styles of latin rhythms and whatnot that could be on there.

Not to mention metal. Oh God, I could think of millions. (which, by the way, shouldn't be under rock.)

Sir_Snooze

03-05-2010, 01:27 AM

Fair enough. I don't listen to metal, so I don't know where it goes...I understand the difficulties. Just airing the idea. I didn't know that tagging existed - thanks, Moseph!

Eulogic

03-05-2010, 01:37 AM

That's why I organize my music only using eight broad genres:
Pop
Rock
Rap
Electronic
Folk (incl. Jazz/Blues)
Classical
Indie
Indie Pop

Schwaltzvald

03-05-2010, 01:46 AM

I don't listen to metal.

don't listen to metal

don't metal.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/Schwaltzvald/soniamdissapoint.png

Kidd Cabbage

03-05-2010, 03:33 AM

That's why I organize my music only using eight broad genres:
Pop
Rock
Rap
Electronic
Folk (incl. Jazz/Blues)
Classical
Indie
Indie Pop

Haha, well, uhh...

I like how indie and indie pop are their own separate categories from both each other and the main rock/pop categories...

But Folk and Jazz are grouped together... and they're about as polar opposite as it gets.

DarkeSword

03-05-2010, 04:13 AM

http://ocremix.org/forums/tags.php

Also, this is about OCR. How is this "Off-topic?"

Please post threads in the proper forums.

Gollgagh

03-05-2010, 04:15 AM

http://ocremix.org/forums/tags.php

I love how it aggressive album ambient angry bass brass cello chill chiptune cinematic classical collab compo dark duet electronica ethnic flute folk funk funky goofy guitar happy hip-hop industrial instrumental jazz latin live recording lyrics mellow metal new age orchestral organ piano pop rapping rock romantic sad sax sexy singing solo strings synth synths trance vibes violin vocal vocals winds world

DarkeSword

03-05-2010, 04:19 AM

Yeah I laughed too.

Sir_Snooze

03-05-2010, 04:54 AM

Oh, wow...d'oy. Not the greatest tags in the world, to be honest. 'Cello'? 'Sexy'? Didn't know they were there.

Also, I put this here because I merely airing the idea as a possibility. Mea culpa. Sorry about that.

DarkeSword

03-05-2010, 12:31 PM

Oh, wow...d'oy. Not the greatest tags in the world, to be honest. 'Cello'? 'Sexy'? Didn't know they were there.

What's wrong with either of those?

Also, I put this here because I merely airing the idea as a possibility. Mea culpa. Sorry about that.

If you're airing an idea specifically about the site, it belongs in Site Issues & Feedback.

Gario

03-06-2010, 01:31 AM

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/Schwaltzvald/soniamdissapoint.png

Hey look, Simon Cowell in a couple of years. Disturbing.

Anyhoo, I'd say we should fight for musical equality on OCR and label everything under one genre - MUSIC :razz:.

Palpable

03-06-2010, 04:52 AM

We've talked about tags several times in this forum, and we hope to make it better in the future. Right now, the first 1000 mixes or so are not tagged save for a few, and complex searching is impossible. I know djp's plan is to eventually make the tags a bigger part of the site, and at least make searching by tag more prominent and more complex. I'd love for a remix to show you similar remixes. If you check out codebeard's site, he's already set up something similar to that using the tags we've applied.

sawse

08-06-2010, 08:24 PM

i dont know if this goes under feedback or request but is there really no way to search genres?.youd think it would be obvious considering theres 2000+ songs.:???:and alot of these songs sound good even when you dont know the game its remixed from. if there is a genre optionn i just didnt see it please point it out. i dont mind looking stupid:-D:ocrgreen:

Rozovian

08-06-2010, 09:20 PM

Here (http://ocremix.org/forums/tags.php). It's a work-in-progress, so it might not cover all tracks. Or maybe it does, dunno how far they've come.

Not everything fits into genres, and if you're into one kind of music having genre tags and stuff helps you not listen to the many great things in other genres. Try everything.

VNilla

02-22-2011, 08:00 PM

After mostly lurking around on the site for just over a year, I really have only one request for the site: the ability to search mixes by genre. I know that this might be difficult to implement (what with having to go through around 2000 songs and classifying each one), but I think it would be worth the effort in the end. By having a genre search, it would be easier to find songs in styles that one likes, rather than the current system of random chance, stumbling across songs in the Russian ReMix Roulette or by random browsing.

My rough idea of how this would work is that each song would be given two "main" genres, e.g. Electronic and Orchestral. Then, each song could be given a set of secondary genres, such as Dance, Jazz, Latin, Ethnic, etc. Genres would most likely be assigned by the judges or djpretzel, dedpending on who reviews and posts the mix. From a layout standpoint, my first instinct says that on the page of search results, the one or two main genres would be listed on the right side, along with the post date. Secondary genres could be viewed on the ReMix detail page (along with the main genres), and could link to each genre's Genre page (like the pages for individual systems, ReMixers, and composers). It seems impractical to me for the search box on the front page to have a Search by Genre feature, because there would be a set list of genres; however, I like the idea of having a Browse Genres button beneath the search box that links to a page listing all the genres. (Unfortunately, this would make it hard to search for songs in two categories, such as if I wanted to only see songs that are both Dance AND Jazz.)

Secondary genres could be the same as main genres (meaning, for example, that Jazz could be used either as a main genre OR as a secondary genre) or they could be a separate set, although I think the former is a better system of classification. If the first system is used, it would probably settle into a pattern similar to the second system, with certain genres being used mainly for main genres and others being used mainly as secondary genres, but the first system leaves open more possibilities.

Here's my rough list of genres (in no particular order):

Orchestral
Electronic
Acoustic
Vocal / Choral (might need two separate genres)
Ambient
Hardcore (= not ambient?)
Dance
Jazz
Funk
Chiptune
Solo (generally for solo piano mixes)
Rock
Metal
Upbeat
Dark (or distorted...? Mazedude might need his own genre...)
Ethnic / World
Hip-hop/Rap (might be covered by Vocal)

Liontamer

02-22-2011, 08:29 PM

We'll eventually end up better integrating this into our site database (i.e. not just show on the forums), but we've already been working on it for quite a while now.

http://ocremix.org/forums/tags.php

VNilla

02-22-2011, 09:29 PM

Oh, neat! Are those tags just server-side for now, or is there a way to use them right now to search for songs (and if so, do enough songs currently have tags to make the search results relatively complete)?

Dafydd

02-23-2011, 06:40 PM

Liontamer

02-23-2011, 07:17 PM

For the longest time, the site staff refused to add this kind of feature, arguing it would make people miss out on great music because they would only look for remixes in a certain genre (I always browse by game myself, so I miss out on tons of great music anyway).

Well to clarify, the main issues with genre labeling in the past have typically been based on tagging the mixes with specific genres instead of "Game:"

* In an MP3, you basically can tag a song as only 1 genre; for a lot of songs, that wouldn't be specific enough
* If you list more than 1 genre in the Genre field of an MP3, it's not standardized, and it looks clunky and inconsistent
* We have too many mixes with no primary or easy to classify genre, so within a framework designed to only show 1 genre, trying to address that for mixes with multiple genres was not worth the hassle

The focus of these suggestions had always been about re-doing the files and dropping Game as a genre, which we're never going to do. But when it dawned on djp that we could use a more robust blog-like tagging system to not have to be limited to only 1 description word/genre, we could use other descriptors that had absolutely nothing to do with genre (e.g. instrumentation, mood), and also NOT tie it to the MP3s themselves (eliminating the need to frequently revise the files), he was on board. And it took some convincing for other judges to be in favor of it, but the consensus was there that a classification system that wasn't limited would end up being beneficial.

The tags themselves are nowhere near done. When they are though, djp's plan is to integrate into the actual database so we can search mixes that way as well.

Neblix

02-24-2011, 12:12 AM

What about trance/DnB//house/progressive/breakbeat/chill/jazzbreakbeatfusion/shahalabaladingdong?

Dafydd

02-24-2011, 04:53 AM

Stuff about ID3 tags
I'm not sure about whether you were just QFE-ing me or actually replying to me, but I wasn't actually referring to the MP3 files when I said I browse by game. I meant I look up a specific game here on the site, maybe even a specific song from its soundtrack, and I listen to the remixes thereof, not knowing their genre beforehand, because I don't really care. As I remember it, the ID3 limitation of only one genre was not the reason for not allowing visitors to this site to search for remixes in a particular genre. It was an ideological design choice, it was one of the reasons for the VGMix exodus, and I'm pretty sure it was explained in the FAQ back in the day, along with why we weren't allowed to share favorites lists on the boards. I'm not arguing against this ideology, I'm just saying.

Enter shameless other-plug: The tags are great, because even though I don't really care much about genre in general, and even though I think something like the worst thing that could happen to this place is if the front page would be transformed into a genre selection menu... sometimes you have an idea for a remix, you have a wip and that one is a certain genre, and you need inspiration or want to compare with existing remixes, and the tags help you find them. Or maybe you forgot everything about a remix you really liked (artist, game), and then you can search for an element in it, like "female vocals", thereby narrowing your search, and find the remix. Also, browsing by genre ironically helps me find great music I would normally miss out on because I typically browse by game. Maybe I'm on the lookout for anything with a banjo in it, and so I find a final fantasty (which I never played and therefore don't care much for) remix with a banjo in it and maybe I like it and start listening to other final fantasy remixes or even the OSTs. Mission accomplished, as far as djp is concerned.

Emperor Charlemagne

02-24-2011, 05:15 AM

*search query "electronica"
*query result "electronica": 6 bajillion matches found

: D

KyleJCrb

02-24-2011, 05:57 AM

it was one of the reasons for the VGMix exodus

It was? That's the first I've heard that one.

Dafydd

02-24-2011, 03:10 PM

Then maybe I'm just full of shit. You've been around for longer than I have, you should know better than i do.

KyleJCrb

02-25-2011, 01:15 AM

Only on that particular point are you full of shit. :-P

Liontamer

02-25-2011, 03:52 AM

I'm not sure about whether you were just QFE-ing me or actually replying to me, but I wasn't actually referring to the MP3 files when I said I browse by game. I meant I look up a specific game here on the site, maybe even a specific song from its soundtrack, and I listen to the remixes thereof, not knowing their genre beforehand, because I don't really care. As I remember it, the ID3 limitation of only one genre was not the reason for not allowing visitors to this site to search for remixes in a particular genre. It was an ideological design choice, it was one of the reasons for the VGMix exodus, and I'm pretty sure it was explained in the FAQ back in the day, along with why we weren't allowed to share favorites lists on the boards. I'm not arguing against this ideology, I'm just saying.

I was only just finding the community when VGMix started, but lack of genre labeling had nothing to do with it. The reason I bring up ID3 tagging is because before the advent of blogs and tag clouds, when most people pushed the genre labeling idea, the central idea to do it was retagging the files, and that's always been a sticking point for the reasons I mentioned. People wanted to be able to download every file, sort the ones with a genre of say, Rock, keep those, and then throw the rest away, which we hated the notion of. Doing labeling that's not limited to 1 term and not part of the MP3s themselves avoids that possibility entirely.

Enter shameless other-plug: The tags are great, because even though I don't really care much about genre in general, and even though I think something like the worst thing that could happen to this place is if the front page would be transformed into a genre selection menu... sometimes you have an idea for a remix, you have a wip and that one is a certain genre, and you need inspiration or want to compare with existing remixes, and the tags help you find them. Or maybe you forgot everything about a remix you really liked (artist, game), and then you can search for an element in it, like "female vocals", thereby narrowing your search, and find the remix. Also, browsing by genre ironically helps me find great music I would normally miss out on because I typically browse by game. Maybe I'm on the lookout for anything with a banjo in it, and so I find a final fantasty (which I never played and therefore don't care much for) remix with a banjo in it and maybe I like it and start listening to other final fantasy remixes or even the OSTs. Mission accomplished, as far as djp is concerned.

Yep, we had reservations, but aside from inertia/precedent, we ultimately felt the same way you do here. Some people will be picky douches about genres, but most others will explore more.

Dafydd

02-25-2011, 06:17 AM

Thanks for clarifying. Wonder where the hell I got that idea, then. :?

Also I wrote "final fantasty" and you guys didn't even notice. Lol

VNilla

02-25-2011, 07:21 PM

I'm going to assume my second question got lost in the discussion, so I'll ask again: is there a way right now to use the tags to search for mixes?

Also I wrote "final fantasty" and you guys didn't even notice. Lol
As a proficient Grammar Nazi, I noticed, but chose not to mention it because I gave up long ago on trying to grammar-nazi forumites. (No offense.)

Palpable

02-25-2011, 08:06 PM

I'm going to assume my second question got lost in the discussion, so I'll ask again: is there a way right now to use the tags to search for mixes?

If you click on the tags on the page that Liontamer posted, it will show you the list of all songs with that tag. We don't have capability to search on multiple tags yet (to my knowledge).

VNilla

02-25-2011, 08:37 PM

Sweet! :< Thank you!

Liontamer

02-25-2011, 09:15 PM

Thanks for clarifying. Wonder where the hell I got that idea, then. :?

Yeah, it's not like VGMix 1 or 2 ever used genre labels.

KyleJCrb

02-25-2011, 09:34 PM

Yeah, it's not like VGMix 1 or 2 ever used genre labels.

X did, but only because it was a built-in functionality of the Jamroom software that they used.

DarkeSword

02-27-2011, 04:26 PM

Tags as they are right now are in sort of a temporary implementation. We're using the vBulletin's thread-tagging feature to tag the review threads for remixes.

Eventually, the tags will be transferred over to the site's database and integrated into the site proper, but at the moment, there is no timeline on this feature. So for now, just use the forum's tags.

neophytegod

06-14-2011, 06:55 AM

while i NEVER use the genre tabs to sort music in my music players i would love to see some sort of filtering or tags for remixes by genre. not game genre but the type of remix it is. i say this because right now im obsessed with dubstep. so shoot me. i know its zelda's 25th this year and i should be collecting everything hyrulian from piano solos to swanky rupee jazz but really all i want right now is dirty coarse dubstep, and ill take it in the form of megaman, zelda, metroid or any other game ive never played. next month who knows maybe ill be into chiptunes or trance or metal and thell ill be trying once again to scrounge all the new songs i can that fit my particular mood. to be able to search for songs according to several advanced filtering options would seriously be supercool... and as always LOVE this site, and all you rediculously talented and generous people who can and do so much for this community. freaking thanks!

Liontamer

06-14-2011, 03:07 PM

http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33686

We don't have much dubstep, but given how many people love the wub-wub, I'll see if the staff wants to add that kind of tag. :lol:

KyleJCrb

06-14-2011, 06:11 PM

Just look for PrototypeRaptor.

Kuolema

06-15-2011, 12:15 AM

From what I understand, the lack of these kinds of tags is to encourage people to listen to a variety of remixes instead of just those from one genre. Although I think that this is important, I also think that the addition of these tags would be beneficial for exactly the same reasons as neophytegod, and that people might actually be able to find more remixes in this way. I'm sure there are plenty of mixes that I'm missing out on because I don't have the time to wade through all of the ones that I don't particularly like. I also don't think that having the tags would necessarily limit people to only 1 genre. With the addition of the tags, you might see a genre that you don't know very well and decide to give it a try, or you might just not realize that there are mixes on the site in a particular genre.

Just some things to consider :)

KyleJCrb

06-15-2011, 03:59 AM

Click the link Larry posted. There's been some genre tags in place for some time now.

neophytegod

06-15-2011, 01:04 PM

... I also don't think that having the tags would necessarily limit people to only 1 genre...

yeah, i dont see this limiting people, not on a regular basis anyway. one night might be a certain genre tag but a week later i may browse by game, or artist or any number of things. i like to think of my music in terms of cravings and consumption, sometimes ill eat just about anything but some days i NEED that cheeseburger!

and sweet, thanks for the link liontamer

Palpable

06-15-2011, 11:08 PM

This will have some false positives, but does give you something to start with:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aocremix.org%2Fremix+dubstep

Kuolema

06-15-2011, 11:33 PM

Click the link Larry posted. There's been some genre tags in place for some time now.

Haha, yeah I clicked on the link after I posted that XD
But yeah tbh the tags are really crap right now...I'm glad it's being worked on, but the way it is right now it's more or less unusable :(

Atrea

07-16-2011, 09:25 PM

First of all this website is amazing already. I can't imagine that this has not been suggested before, however I haven't found anything about it.

It would be easy to add an option to search for music in categories like metal, rock, piano, symphony, harmonic etc. Then you can find all piano tracks in a few clicks.
Disadvantage would be now that all other oploaded mp3's have to be edited..

So I'm not sure if it's a good idea, however maybe there is a work around?

Chernabogue

07-16-2011, 09:31 PM

Already asked by others and currently in the works. :-D

Liontamer

07-16-2011, 11:23 PM

http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33686

We'll eventually end up better integrating this into our site database (i.e. not just show on the forums), but we've already been working on it for quite a while now.

http://ocremix.org/forums/tags.php

In the works. :-)

codebeard

12-24-2011, 09:30 PM

Just updated my site URL, since the old URL hasn't been working for a while:

OverClocked ReMix tag index:
http://kieranclancy.com/ocrtags/

pokemoneinstein

12-31-2011, 02:04 PM

Why, exactly, does the site not have this feature? Remixes could be tagged with genre tags, like rock, chiptune, orchestral, jazz, and people could search for a certain genre, and everything with that tag would pop up. It would be an incredible task to add genres to all the songs, but I think it would probably be worth it. And then, of course for future submissions, genre tags could be a requirement.

Fishy

12-31-2011, 02:55 PM

It's in the FAQ,

http://ocremix.org/info/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Why_aren.27t_the_ReMixe s_categorized_by_genre.2C_i.e._techno.2C_jazz.2C_o rchestral.2C_etc..3F

There is however a tagging system going on that works a better for OCR, so you can tag remixes with guitar, or chiptune etc without clumsy genre shoving. I don't know too much about it, hopefully someone else will chip in.

pokemoneinstein

12-31-2011, 03:16 PM

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see that. The second reason is good, though the genre tagging system would fix the problem with the first. if a song has elements of multiple genres, it would be tagged with them. I still think searching by genre would be a great feature, but I understand the decision not to include it. There isn't much way around the second point, save for the fact that if someone who likes, say, dubstep, listens to a song that has jazz elements, and decides from there to check out songs that are more heavily influenced by jazz, and then discovers one with orchestral elements, and thing goes on to listen to more orchestral songs, then discovers orchestral rock, then regular rock, and blah blah blah, I'm sure you all get it.

KyleJCrb

12-31-2011, 03:44 PM

It's not fully implemented, but you can take advantage of the tag system right now: http://ocremix.org/forums/tags.php

Xarnax42

01-01-2012, 02:52 AM

For quick playlists based on tags, codebeard has done some really nice work: http://kieranclancy.com/ocrtags/

Guilty Gear

05-20-2012, 03:56 PM

Hi there!

That's my first time using the forum of OCR! This page is just beyond epicness, but I don't have to tell you guys ;)

The whole website is great... Did David or who ever manages this page ever thought about adding genre information to all the remixes?
At the moment, I can search and list for game titles, artist names and album titles... But It would a very good tool if you could filter all remixes by genres for example: rock-, electro-, chip tune or orchestral-remixes.

For example my self, I'm a big instrumental rock and metal remixes fan and its VERY hard to find songs in this style because you have ten thousand of remixes all over and for me... it's to hard. so because of that I'm maybe not the best visitor of ocremix.org although the page is beyond epicness...

I know it is ALOT of work to add this additional information to all songs, but maybe you can add it just on the new incomings? and adding the information to the old songs, step by step...

Or I'm the only one who need this? :S

Greetings from Switzerland!
Marc

hakstock

05-20-2012, 04:01 PM

Well, for now you can do a search by tag: http://ocremix.org/forums/tags.php?tag=rock

Maybe a more prominent feature will be implemented in the future :mrgreen:

Melbu Frahma

05-20-2012, 04:21 PM

Rozovian

05-20-2012, 05:48 PM

tl;dr: genre stuff wasn't used before because genre snobs would then not listen to the many cool mixes that weren't in their preferred genre.

You could try to use this off-site resource to create playlists (http://kieranclancy.com/ocrtags/) and work out of those. I gave it a quick try with an artist-sorted iTunes library, which didn't work. They playlist can be drag-n-dropped or otherwise imported into iTunes, but ends up empty.

The playlist file is just a list of the filenames for the tracks. Dunno how up to date it is, at what stage the tagging project is, if iTunes or more recent naming conventions screw with the filenames, or it can be conveniently converted to something that takes different music library organization schemes into account.

Or perhaps importing the m3u from a directory full of shortcuts to the files works?

Guilty Gear

05-20-2012, 09:10 PM

As I recall, this was discussed in the past... I'll see if I can find the thread and link it to you (although it might be somewhere in the Ask a Judge thread).

EDIT: Found it: http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9889&highlight=genre

thank you for answering!
ouch, 18 pages :S I go throught the thread and the answer is their is no need for, you can ask the forum members? :S that is definitely not a good solution : /

@Rovozian
Thanks for answering
I actually don't understand what you writting about :mrgreen: but sorting by artists is not very helpful i think :S

@hakstock
Thanks for answering
Are all remixes in this forum?? your just the discussed ones?

btw I do know a thread for searching of Genre, to test that solution...

Rozovian

05-20-2012, 10:14 PM

Most of what I said makes sense if you're using the link I gave you to create m3u playlists and attempt to import them into iTunes. If not, ignore it. :)

While on this topic, iTunes seem to wanna sort ocr tracks with the new id3 tags into a single itunes media/music/compilations/http___ocremix.org (on mac). Once the entire ocr database is updated and ppl use files with the new tags, a script that does this could probably be added to Kieran's thing. Or ppl could just open the m3u files and search&replace all new lines with new line and whatever parts of the locator are needed.

idunno, Larry, Dave, Kieran, whoever.

MC Final Sigma

11-19-2012, 01:12 AM

Sorry if this has been suggested before, but would it be possible to get a genre tag for the different ReMixes? It would probably be a lot of work to add them, and I bet it would be difficult to classify certain songs, be they unique, multi-genre, or what have you. Perhaps the ReMixers themselves could choose a genre(s) upon submission? Alternatively, perhaps mixes could be searched by features, like specific tempos, vocals, etc. But anyway, it would be cool to get a list of all piano covers, rap songs, metal mixes, etc.

Amphibious

11-19-2012, 01:21 AM

If you click search along the bar above the forums (its in between "Calendar" and "New Posts") you can Search by Tag. The threads for remix reviews / comments are all tagged with various features, such as "metal" and "vocals" and the like. It would be cool if you could search in the top right for genre or tag and go straight to the song instead of the remix thread, but its at least possible to do on the forums.

*EDIT - Older remixes are not tagged however. I'm not sure what point they started adding in the tags.

Melbu Frahma

11-19-2012, 01:47 AM

You might look into this (http://ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=861927&postcount=1) thread for further info. Or this (http://ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=276377&postcount=1) one.

My understanding is - short version - they were avoiding doing anything of the sort for the longest time because they thought it would encourage people who might otherwise be unwilling to give dubsteb, or electronica, or orchestral, or whatever kinds of music a chance, to listen to everything. You know, if you can't search by "death metal" then you have to go through song by song, and might discover a chill techno piece, or cool spaghetti western, as you went that you otherwise would've never bothered to look for.

Dunno what the current staff thoughts on the matter are now, though.

EDIT: Whoops - looks like Amph beat me to it while I was finding the other two threads, and with more updated information than what I had. Go with what he said. :razz: